Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Now and Ben: Bong Joon Ho on Mickey 17, British winters & his iPad obsession

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

It’s ‘Mickey 17’ release day, and Ben is chatting to Director Bong Joon Ho in today’s episode to celebrate. Starring Robert Pattinson as an expendable worker on a colonized ice planet, the new film from Korean cinema’s modern master sees protagonist Mickey ‘re-printed’ over and over again.  Frequently killed in his dangerous daily tasks, ‘human printing technology’ allows Mickey to be simply reborn, with his memories intact. But when he makes it back to base unexpectedly alive one day, he finds he’s already been reprinted—coming face to face with his latest iteration. His girlfriend may be loving it, but the law, upheld by Mark Ruffalo’s villainous Marshall, is not. Ben sits down with the ‘Parasite’ Oscar winner, and his legendary translator Sharon Choi, to unpack this dark comedy sci-fi satire... to name some of the genres this madcap movie might be. Nobody makes them like Director Bong. He reveals the secret real-life location of his ice-planet (complete with mountains of salt standing in for snow), the challenges of working with two Robert Pattinsons, and his obsession with his comfort-blanket iPad. Check out the ‘Now and Ben’ back catalogue for more conversations with cinema’s most exciting creative talents, including four-time Oscar winning director of ‘Anora’, Sean Baker,  ‘Peaky Blinders’ writer Steven Knight, and Hollywood royalty Angela Bassett. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Well, March is upon us, Mark. What hair-themed movies can you think of? Why? Well, I'm feeding matters of March hair here. Actually, where does that phrase come from? It's a breeding season thing, but beyond the etymology, I'm ready to spring down rabbit holes in the internet. Of course. Well, NordVPN can take you there. You can unlock films and global content with a single click

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30-day money back guarantee. Check the link in the description. Hello and welcome to another episode of Now and Ben. In these extra helpings of film buffery, our super sub Ben Bailey-Smith brings you even more conversations with the biggest names in film and streaming. In this episode, it's our second Oscar-winning guest, the filmmaker behind Snowpiercer, Parasite and now Mickey 17, director Bong Joon-Ho. He talks to Ben about his new film set in a barren, sci-fi ice colony where an expendable Robert Pattinson is condemned to be reprinted over and over again. Check out our back catalog for more of Ben's chat, including with the now

four-time Oscar-winning director of Enora, Sean Baker. Don't forget to check the take feed for these bonus nuggets every now and Ben. I was thinking about the gestation of this film and I was wondering if you could give us a little prehistory on it, how it came to be. I received the original material in the fall of 2020 and immediately captivated. So in 2021, I adapted the novel into a screenplay and in that winter, I met up with Rob and started the casting process. We went to the movie theater and filmed it in the fall and winter of 2022. We filmed it exactly in the first episode and the budget. So, casting and pre-production went smooth.

And so we shot the film in 2022, fall and winter. Came under budget in the schedule. 23 post-production. Under budget and on schedule. That's one to celebrate. What were some of the biggest challenges in making this movie for you? Something new maybe that you hadn't experienced before? I already made some sci-fi movie, but the very first time,

there is some big spaceship and to do another planet. But actually, I already experienced some creatures in the movie. Kind of Okja and the host had VFX creatures. The challenge was really the Mickey's. Especially with the two Mickey's. 17 and 18. Right. Robert Pattinson and the two Mickey's came out and fought. Because we had to have two Robert Pattinson's in the same frame,

like fighting and putting their arms on each other. That's not easy. It's quite tricky. I wanted to make it perfect. But I wanted to make sure that it lands perfectly and it doesn't feel awkward. VFX helped a lot and did a great job. And above all, Rob prepared himself well and did it. I'm thankful that he did well in the other one sounds kind of cool. Same mickey, but totally different. Yeah, it was amazing.

Yeah. And the ice planet, was that a real location? Was it a combination with blue screen? Where was that? This episode is brought to you by MUBI, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema. MUBI is the place to discover ambitious films

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Okay. No, it's close to here actually. There's a huge air cargo in Cardington and Warner Brothers shoots a lot of films there and we just had tons and tons of salts on the floor. Nice. I mean you're in the UK in February so it's kind of like an ice planet anyway, right? Yeah, I mean it was incredibly cold. We were inside the cargo warehouse, but it was still so cold there. So in the Snowy Field scene, the actors' breath is real.

It's not VFX. So the steamy breath that comes out of the actor's mouth is real, not VFX. I love it. So obviously, there's like a huge ethical question at the heart of this movie. You know, as soon as I saw what the concept was, what the setup was, the human printing, it made me when, as soon as I saw what the concept was, what the setup was,

but the human printing, it made me think back to how scared I felt when I first read that you could print a handgun, you know, this is happening in 2025, you can print a gun and use it. So, you know, you fast forward to this era, it feels science fiction, of course, but also maybe science non-fiction. It's already here. And the ethics of it. I was interested in what your attraction was

to this big sort of ethical problem that you sort of display in this movie. So it's more like the original novel that we've been looking forward to in the near future, in 2053. As if young audiences would experience it when they become mid-race, we felt like this is actually going to happen. and that's why I set the time of the world to 2053. I pulled it much closer to your reality so that this will happen by the time the young audience members become middle-aged.

The original novel is way after the century. Because in the original novel, the world is set hundreds of years from now? The concept of a human printer is the core concept. The word itself already has all the elements novel, the world is set hundreds of years from now? The word human printer is the core concept, and the word itself already has all the ethical and ethical issues. That's what needs to be printed, but it's already human printing. So the key concept of human printing and the combination of those words already presents the ethical questions and ethical dilemma of this film

because, you know, a printer should be printing like pieces of paper, not human beings. But if you think about the goal and the objective of why they're printing humans, it's even more horrendous because they're basically printing out someone who they can figuratively kill continuously. He's sent out to do all these dangerous missions that no one wants to do that will probably lead to death and they don't have to feel guilty about it because they can just be like, oh, it's this job to die and we can just reprint him right away. Yeah, there was an element of it, as I thought a lot about immigration when I was watching the movie, you know, there's a line one of the characters says where

he says something about the creepers. He says, they're not the aliens. We're the aliens. They live here. They live here. They're indigenous. And it made me think about Mickey as well and how we treat levels of human. You know, there's human beings that apparently don't have to do anything except make decisions and look after themselves.

And then there's human beings who have to do everything for them. And there's like a food chain. And Mickey felt like at the bottom of that food chain. So when the movie starts, it starts at the bottom of Crevasse. It's literally the bottom of bottom. That's how Mickey and the character started. That's why the film starts at the bottom of the crevasse.

Mickey is already at the bottom of the bottom. He does something very important, and he becomes the lab rat So he's actually doing something quite important. He says, yeah, I became the lab rat and managed to get this vaccine for everyone. And he feels quite proud of what he does. But actually, the people around him, especially characters like Marshall, they look down upon him and they treat him with such content. And that's how reality is though.

The people who actually do the important work, who sacrifice themselves for the good of others, they're the ones who are most treated with most disregard in our current reality. Yeah, and you see it throughout history with immigrants being brought in to build things, die while they're building them. And then hundreds of years later,

we use these things with no memory of the sacrifices that we've made. We forget everything about it. And also there is the images of... There are historical images of pain that have been engraved in the minds of humanity for hundreds of years. There are images of us being beaten up with a stick or of us being colonized by the slave And in the film, amongst in between all the comedy, we see images that have sort of hurt humanity for centuries. These images of suffering that have dominated human history, kind of like when Mickey is branded with a burning stick.

It reminds you of slavery and a lot of the plot, it's about sort of colonization and what happened between the colonizers and the indigenous people, and sort of the suffering that we've had to endure and remember throughout human history. Yeah, and you know, it's interesting you saying that, because I was also reminded, you know, as you get to this point where there's a sort of face-off between the humans and the creepers,

that there is a lot of technical intelligence in the humans, but the creepers have almost more emotional intelligence than they do. It's an interesting balance. Marshall and Ilfa, they treat the creepers with such content and they find them despicable and disgusting. But as the film progresses, we slowly start to see the dignity that these creepers and creatures have. Marshall and Mickey are very aggressive.

Spam Baby, Print Jack, and Creeper are also very aggressive. But in the end, Mickey saves each other. Creeper saves Mickey, and Mickey saves Creeper, too, from genocide. Marshall also treats Mickey with a lot of contempt. He calls him print job, spam baby, as well, like he does with the Creepers.

But in the end, it's really Mickey and the Creepers who save each other. The Creepers save Mickey, and Mickey saves them by preventing genocide. And thinking more about the tech in this movie, the tech that is used for this incredibly controversial thing in creating humans for use, what's your relationship with tech,

personally and professionally, I guess. You know, when you're shooting something, are you hands-on with some of the new tech that you're using and just in your own life, how do you feel? Because I love having a pen and paper, but my kids don't really write anymore, you know? When I was preparing for Snowpierce,

I started using iPad iPad since 2010. It became a thing that I was obsessed with. It was like Charlie Brown's Linus was wearing a blanket. If the iPad wasn't attached to your body, you'd feel anxious. I did everything with that. I was obsessed with tablets, but I couldn't get away. I used that got storyboards, too. So from when I started preparing for Snowpiercer around 2010,

I started using an iPad. And it's become sort of like an object that I obsess over now. It's kind of like with Linus and his blanket and Charlie Brown. If I don't have the iPad with me physically, I feel anxious. I do all my work there. I draw my storyboards there. It's like my attachment item. So, technology in this movie is like that, but if you want to keep up with the speed, you get sick. I think we'll be in a mess because we can't do this or that. These things about technology.

But now we're starting to have AI programs installed in our devices, and it's all everyone talks about. I'm trying it out a little bit, but it feels a bit icky. Something feels a bit off about it. And I feel quite nauseous trying to keep up with the speed of how fast technology is advancing. And I feel like people just don't know what to do with it right now.

Well, I think your movie celebrates humanity and humans. So that's something we can all smile about, at least, Director Bong, thank you for your time. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Cheers.