Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Richard Linklater, Hit Man, The Dead Don’t Hurt & Bad Boys: Ride or Die

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

This week’s guest is one of America’s most beloved auteurs, and arguably the most laid-back director working today, Richard Linklater, who is on the show to tell Simon all about his latest black romantic comedy ‘Hit Man’, which sees a professor moonlighting as a hitman descend into dangerous, dubious territory when he finds himself attracted to a woman who enlists his services. Mark also gives his thoughts on the film, as well as reviewing ‘The Dead Don’t Hurt’, Viggo Mortensen’s directorial debut which sees a Franco Canadian woman and a Danish immigrant fall in love in 1860s San Francisco only to be separated by the American Civil War. The big review of the week is ‘Bad Boys: Ride or Die’, the fourth instalment of the Will Smith and Martin Lawrence buddy cop action series, which sees the duo’s late police captain get linked to drug cartels, prompting them to embark on a dangerous mission to clear his name. Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!): 06:36 – The Dead Don’t Hurt Review 12:20 – Box Office Top Ten 23:15 – Richard Linklater Interview 38:55 – Hit Man Review 46:35 – Bad Boys: Ride or Die Review You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

That's the sound of unaged whiskey, transforming into Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, nearest green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your start the podcast with some good news. A couple of weeks ago, someone wrote to us bemoaning and in general complaining about the unavailability of Godzilla Minus

One. So I just thought it was worth saying right at the top of the show that it's on Netflix and it is, I think it's like their number one movie or it is on my feed anyway. So it's there for everybody to enjoy. Because I think at the time there was like no sign of it anywhere. You couldn't buy it on DVD, you couldn't stream it, you couldn't rent it. And now there it is, it's available for free. That's right. It was in cinemas only. So yeah, absolutely brilliant. I have a follow-up question, which is, we had a question, Smechtan, a couple of weeks ago, about criticising films that aren't part of your culture. It occurred to me a couple of times that if Godzilla Minus One had been a British film, you might have said that they were chewing

the scenery or that the acting was slightly over the top. But I wasn't quite sure whether that was culturally insensitive. Will Barron Well, the question you asked was, if you're watching a film in a foreign language, can you tell whether the acting is good or bad? Because you're not hearing the lines in your language. So, is it possible that you could watch a film with a performance in a foreign language in which you didn't know that it was an overdone performance. My contention was actually, you generally can tell because the way the words are spoken is only a small part of a performance. The rest of it is to do with the way in which an actor physically expresses themselves.

Although there is a truth in it, that it may be that somebody is not doing the best line delivery and you can't hear it, I still think you can tell the difference. But that's just my opinion. Mason- Anyway, just to say, Godzilla Minus One, now on Netflix for everyone to enjoy. Welcome to the program. Later, we'll be having top reviews from the nation's only and topmost movie reviewer who's going to be reviewing these films. Jason- Oh, would that be me? I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about somebody else. There's a new Viggo Mortensen western called The Dead Don't Hurt. There is a new Bad Boys film, because obviously we were all waiting for a new Bad Boys film. I woke up every morning to just check my

feed to see whether the new Bad Boys film was here. And Hitman with our very special guest... Richard Liglater, which is a very good thing. You'll hear that conversation later. Our recommendation feature weekend watch list TV Movie of the Week thing. In our premium bonus section, The Matrix, Deep Sea, Winnie the Pooh, Blood and Honey 2, all that stuff. And also, our one frame back is Richard Linklater movies. Shmessgen's is part of Take Two. You can get everything via Apple Podcasts or go to extratakes.com for non-fruit related devices. You also get episodes of Shrink the Box in your inbox, to be perfectly honest. You can email that show, shrinkthebox.sonymusic.com, if you are already a Vanguard Easter.

We salute you. Okay, so you can get in touch with correspondence at kobanamo.com. Dr Hooman Sadri says, Dear Doctors, relatively long-term listener, first time emailer, proud Vanguard Easter, I was moved to write in in solidarity with your spirited defences of so-called Mickey Mouse degree subjects, but also to up the ante on them somewhat. The bottom line is that humanities and art subjects don't just contribute to the gaiety of the nation or the world. They also teach

and instil vital critical literacy and thought skills. We live in an increasingly multimedia and multimodal world. It's imperative that people learn and understand how to read texts from literature and film to speeches to memes, you name it, critically and fluently, because otherwise, the world will continue to wallow in whatever it is being fed at face value. This is where the humanities come in. This is what we teach. The purpose of a university education is not just to gain a qualification to get a job. It's also to open minds and reveal truths and beauty. This is not something that is desirable to a certain cross-section of the political class. What you saw after all are lies and dissembling, if people are well trained to see through them. So Hooman, thank you very much indeed. That's particularly apposite

email I think. Also on the same subject. Absolutely. Sorry, go on. Can I just say that, that's absolutely on the money and particularly in terms of media studies, which is basically what these idiots mean when they say Mickey Mouse degrees. Media studies is arguably one of the most important things you can do at the moment because in the current mass media world, I mean, you know, when we were growing up, the Glasgow Media Group was pretty much it. Now, it is really important that people are media literate, more important than ever. And so, yeah. And as I said again,

Mickey Mouse, incredibly successful creation of one person that turned into a multimedia international empire. So, stupid analogy anyway. Carry on. Danny Green in Wallasey. I'm writing regarding your discussion on Mickey Mouse degrees. I have a degree from Lancaster University in Physical Geography. Is that deemed worthy? But I also have an actual Mickey Mouse degree. The company I worked for was passionate about providing an interactive experience that would wow families, and in particular small children. We did face painting, balloon modelling and numerous kids' parties every weekend. I frequently moaned that we needed more training in delivering this, and my feedback was taken on board. One year I was lucky enough to be taken away

for a training course to learn how to do this properly. The training was at Disney World in Florida, a fantastic experience where we spent five days at the Disney University, my goodness me, which they used to train all new recruits. During our trip, we learned about how to work at Disney, how to deliver an amazing family experience, and also some of the secrets of the park and the people who worked there. I'm the proud owner of a Disney graduation cap and therefore a 100% Mickey Mouse degree. I assume this type of behavior will no longer be tolerated by the government moving forward. Hello to Jason Tobi and Half Man Half Biscuit. So long and thanks for all the fish, Danny

Green and Wallacy. Well, worry ye not because hopefully they won't be the government moving forwards. Yes, okay. The BBC training in me immediately wants to jump in and say, others will disagree, obviously. So let's get on with a very healthy and finely balanced, no it won't be, a well-argued film review. What are you doing for us? I should say, I got sent on one of those anti-bias training courses. And I said, I'm a critic, it's my job. The Dead Don't Hurt, Western, written, produced, directed by, starring Viggo Mortensen, who, like Charlie Chaplin and Sally Potter and John Carpenter, also wrote the score, which

he also did for the 2020 film Falling, which I remember you interviewed him for. I'm correcting that, aren't I? You are definitely correct. Yeah. Okay. So 1860s America, Western Frontier, starts with a young man walking out of a bar in Elk Flats, Nevada, where he appears to have shot everyone. He shoots the deputy, gets on his horse, rides off. Viggo Mortensen's Holger Olsen, meanwhile, is in his remote shack burying his wife Vivian, played by Vicky Creeps, the great Vicky Creeps who is so brilliant in Phantom Thread, as their young son looks on. The film, which is non-linear, then spirals back many years to the first meeting between

the French-Canadian Vivian and the Danish Holger in San Francisco. She's an independent woman, he's a man of very few words. They have in common that they're outsiders. There's a spark between them, they fall in love, they start to make a home. And then just when everything seems to be going fine, war comes and he decides to enlist. Here's a clip. Going to take a hundred dollar bounty and volunteer for the army. They might pay even more because of my previous military experience. Why? Why? This is not your problem. This is not your country. It is now. It's not just about money. It's the right thing to do.

Fighting against slavery. Those who can should. Bullshit! They put this on fire. I won't be gone long. And you're so stupid. So stupid. What if I don't wait for you, huh? I'm a good soldier.

You need me. You're too old to go to war. But he does. He leaves her to fend for herself in a world in which lawlessness and corruption is a constant threat. So Tonally has reminded me a couple of things. Kelly Reichardt's Meeks Cut-Off, which is a film I really like, and Mona Fastfold's The World to Come, which again, I think you interviewed Vanessa Kirby for that film. It's a very bleak film. Yes, very bleak.

Yeah, very bleak. But the thing that those have in common is they're Westerns by setting rather than by subject. So the setting is the Western frontier, people living hardscrabble lives, violence, ever-present threat, but the subject is the people. In this case, this understated relationship between these two misfit characters, both attempting to make a world of their own. It also reminded me weirdly a little bit of Sam Peckinpah's The Ballad of Cable Hoag,

which of course famously flopped. It was the film that he really cared passionately about and then did really, really badly. This is beautifully shot by Marcel Ziskin, wide-screen frame which captures the beauty of the landscape, but also manages to be intimate when we're inside the house. Great work from the regular collaborators with whom, Viggo Mortensen worked on his previous films. So his art director, production designer, Carol Spear,

costume designers, the same people that you worked with before. Very enigmatic performance by Mortensen, but she absolutely dominates the screen. I remember seeing Vickieppes in Phantom Thread and just being knocked out by her. She has that thing about she has a presence and a stillness, but also something fiery within her. The lovely thing about a character, whenever she smiles, it lights up the screen. It's a very, very hard role to get right.

I can imagine if they'd miscast that role, the film really, really wouldn't work. It is worth saying that this isn't for everyone. I mean, it takes its time, the pacing is slow and methodical. The non-linear storytelling is not always completely easy to follow. There was a couple of moments that I was wrong-footed,

although I believe that is deliberate. But look, if you like Westerns and you like, I said things like Meeks Cut-Off, I think there's a lot in here to enjoy. But it is worth saying that it's not a shootout Western, it's not whole gangs people on horseback rounding up the wagons. It's not that kind of shoot out Western, it's not, you know, whole gangs people on horse backs, you know, rounding up the wagons. It's not that kind of Western. It is basically a story about two people that happens to have a Western setting. I found it very affecting.

Mason- Is he still the new Viggo Mortensen? Jason- Sorry. Mason- Well done. Jason- Yes, yes he is. Mason- He is the new Viggo Mortensen. Jason- Is he still the new Robert De Niro? Mason- Well, I think he is. I mean, I said that, I think you said it to him that I had said that. I did.

And it was after History of Violence, because he'd done brilliant work with David Cronenberg and again, of course, in Eastern Promises. And I think, you know, in the way that people were saying, you know, Michael Fassbender is the new Marlon Brando, which of course is a bit of a poison chalice because the new Marlon Brando before he became the new Marlon Brando, which of course is a bit of a poison chalice because the new Marlon Brando before he became the old Marlon Brando. But you know, I would still argue that Mego Mortenson is indeed the new Robert De Niro. He's very serious. I mean, he's a serious, serious actor, serious director, serious artist, and he takes his filmmaking very seriously.

The Dead Don't Hurt then is our first movie still to come. We're going to be doing what, Mark, precisely? Bad Boys Ride or Die, because I know everybody needs a new Bad Boys film, and Hitman with our special guest, who is Richard Linklater, the writer and director of that movie, more in just a moment. This episode is brought to you by the curated streaming service, Mubi. Mark, some people know they love great cinema, others haven't quite found out yet, but Mubi is here to help. What does Mubi have to offer people of all kinds this June? This month Simon, as festival season approaches,

Mubi are hosting some really exciting gems from recent years. There's Gasoline Rainbow, which is now streaming on Mubi UK, that's the latest from the Ross Brothers who made Bloody Nose Empty Pockets, which you remember I was very very fond of. Then there's Great Freedom, winner of the Uncertain Regard Jury Prize at the 2021 Cannes Film Festival and a stirring portrait of gay resistance and resilience in post-war Germany. So that's the Mubi selection of festival gems, what else is there? Great Freedom is being featured as part of their film collection A Place of Our Own, Queer Spaces on Film. This is a selection of iconic queer titles and you can see such classics as Paris is Burning, which transports us into

the houses and ballrooms of the 1980s New York drag and voguing scene. You can try Mubi free for 30 days at Mubi.com slash Kermode Mea for a whole month of great cinema for free. Well hello there, Simon and Mark here to tell you about Indeed. Yes, Indeed is driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search. Match with Indeed. If you need to hire, then you need Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors according to Indeed data.

And if you're busy watching all of this week's film recommendations and you have no time, then you can use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging, so you can connect with candidates faster. But Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster. 75% of employers claim Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other online job sites. Leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day, Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences.

So, the more you use Indeed, the better it gets, like us. Why not join the more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast? Listeners of this show will get a £100 sponsored job credit to get your job's more visibility at indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. That's indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire?

You need Indeed. Indeed. Okay, Box Office Top 10 in just a moment, thanks to our very good friends at CommScore. Before we get there, some words on Eric, which was the subject of our Benedict Cumberbatch interview from last week, which is also on Netflix. Stephanie says, I watched Eric all the way through in one night because of course I couldn't just go to bed after two episodes. I thought it was excellent. And precisely, the individual characters were drawn and how they were allowed to develop. The 1980s are brought back to life by the set design, the costumes and the soundtrack. It's just fantastic. And I will have a Gloria, as in Laura Branagh, earworm for a very long time. Benedict Cumberbatch

is simply incomparable. So a big thank you to Abby Morgan, Lucy Forbes and the whole team of Eric for bringing the world of Vincent Edgar and Eric so wonderfully to life. I'm going to make some tea and then maybe watch it again. Stephanie, thank you for that. This email from Mark Woodruff. I never thought I'd ever thank you for spoilers, but I'm so grateful to you for saying Eric is a redemption story and for Mr Cumberbatch indicating as much right at the very end of your interview. If I'd not heard these comments, I think I would have stopped watching after episode three because it looked as if it was going to be a grim tale, and I

couldn't bear that. I still haven't got over Gone Baby Gone. Oh, what a wonderful show I would have missed. New York City is lovingly restored back to the 1980s. Difficult to believe that it really was like that. And of course it's Hungary, but anyway. And the role of Eric does not feel forced or stupid at all. Cumberbatch's intensity is mesmerising, and the various subplots are skillfully knitted together by Lucy Forbes, who is fast becoming one of our finest directors. So thanks again for the spoilers, but don't make a habit of it. Best wishes, Mark Woodruff. I mean, the key thing there is, Mark, is that where the spoilers are led by the star, there's not really much you can do about it. And I think if the star of the movie is telling you things

because he wants to tell you things about the way the story unfolds, that's kind of reasonable. Yes. And I mean, I think as we said at the time, it wasn't so much a spoiler as a reassurance. It was a reassurance that it's not the movie that you might think it is. It was particularly interesting that that email said at the end of episode three, I thought if I didn't know that it wasn't that, I might have given up. That would have been a real shame. I think it's not a spoiler. It is a reassurance. Mark Howells says, Burton Ernie, as much as I enjoyed Eric having binge watched it Saturday, I've got to say I saw it as a we need to talk about Kevin prequel. The Kid was a little bird

song. Well, that's a point of view. Okay, box office top 10 then. At 15, The Beast. Well, it was weird because when we reviewed Eric, I said, and we did these two in the same week, I said, Eric, like The Beast shouldn't work. And the fact that it does tells you a lot about the way in which it's written, the way in which it's played, the way in which it's directed. I thought The Beast was terrific. And I've spoken to a few people now who have had a very similar experience to mine. You sit at the beginning thinking, there's no way that this is going to work. And yet at the end of the two and a half hours, you're absolutely emotionally involved in it.

Lea Sadoo, gorgeous George Mackay. I think it defies description, but I absolutely loved it. Abigail, on this email, Mark and Simon, short-term listener, following your radio pursuits for just under a year before you created this podcast. First time email, incredible film. Now I know the language of this film will not appeal to many, but as soon as I watched it, I just felt I understood. The purposeful repetition of dread, relationships, dolls, hands, psychics, and imagined endings was mesmerizing. I'm conscious I don't want to say too much about the film, lest I spoil it for those who have not been lucky

enough to see it yet. Up with salted popcorn and down with rude moviegoers. I'm afraid salted popcorn, any kind of popcorn, is a bad idea in my opinion, but I agree about the rude moviegoers." So that's The Beast at 15. Yes. Can I just say you'd find it pretty hard to spoil The Beast. I mean, even when you're trying to explain it, it's really, it's very hard to spoil that film. You enter at number 13, Young Woman in the Sea. Daisy Ridley swims the English Channel based on the true story. They take huge liberties with the true story, but you know, it's a Jerry Brookheimer drama and it does

what it says on the tin. And Stephen Graham is having the time of his life. And that's at number 14 in America. Number 10 here is Challengers. Sexy Tennis, my favourite Luca Quadagnino film. She's a fairly small field, but I really enjoyed it. I thought it was really good fun. Number nine here, six in the States, The Strangers, chapter one. Yeah, they didn't show it to the press and it looks like it's going to be out of the charts next week. So I think that speaks for itself. But hey, maybe chapter two will be, you know, something that they're desperate for us to see.

Sting is at number eight. I really enjoyed Sting. It's a spiders from outer space horror movie. It's Alien in an Apartment with creepy crawlies. It stars Eliana Brown, who was so fantastic in Furiosa, which we'll come to in a little while. I mean, it's got a lot of throwback charm. And there's another sort of slightly spoofy horror film out this week. All I can tell you is Sting gets right everything that the other Spoofy horror movie gets wrong. I saw the trailer for the new Alien film this week, which looks very interesting. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen the trailer. Is it a good trailer?

I think it is. It basically looks like it's from the director who made The Evil Dead, so it's sort of a horror movie. So Sting's at number eight. Here, number seven in the States is Haiku, The Dumpster Battle. Mason- This is a Japanese animated sports film based on a manga series and a direct sequel to an animated television series, none of which I have seen, but I believe we have an email. Jason- Well, a brief, more of a text really, or a WhatsApp. more of a text really, or a WhatsApp. Mad King J. Hello, Mad King. It's great fun, amazing voice acting, and despite being behind in the show, it explained everything and the stakes involved. Can't wait to see how the rest of the series plays out. So, I guess if you're into it, then you know, and if you don't, then you don't. Haiku, The Dumpster Battle is at number seven.

Number six, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. 20th anniversary, which makes me feel like the oldest human being on earth. What's your favourite Potter film? Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Not only that, it's my favourite of the Harry Potter books, which is just a fantastic book and a great book. And there we are. It's the correct answer. I was puzzled to see Gary Oldman wasn't happy with his performance in that film. Really?

Yeah. I didn't know that. Where did you see that? I read it this week. Anyway, I find that strange because I thought it was fantastic. Anyway, The Fall Guys at number five, hanging on in there. Yes. And again, on the news this morning, they were talking about, you know, why is The Fall

Guy underperformed? Why is Furious underperformed? Why is everything underperforming? Why is it the end of the world? Why is cinema collapsing? Why, why, why, why, why, why? I like the Fall Guy. I thought it was great fun. I don't actually care whether or not anyone remembers the IP from the original TV series. I mean, I'd forgotten about it. I still thought the film was really good, you know, popcorn film. Mason- I saw a very interesting made up graph on one of the social media things that's knocking around, which basically the argument was, since David Bowie's died, everything has turned to poo. popcorn film. I saw a very interesting made up graph on one of the social media things that's knocking

around, which basically the argument was since David Bowie's died, everything has turned to poo. And it's like, look graph, there's a line that comes in horizontally, then it marks the point David Bowie dies and then a steep decline in everything. So that is the reason why it's all gone to muck. Anyway, okay. So Fall Guys at number five. Number four is Furiosa, a Mad Max saga underperforming. Is that what you're saying? Everything has been soft. It's like a boiled egg, everything has been soft and it's the softest something weekend since the last soft weekend they had. And everyone's having a

complete conniption about it. I know cinemas are having a hard time. I do think we're kind of overthinking this. The sun's been out. I always remember that thing, Danny Boyle's Sunshine was destroyed by the sunshine. It had a terrible opening weekend because the sun came out and everyone went, let's go to the beach. I don't know why, but I don't think it's like, oh, we're making the wrong films and doing the wrong things. It's just, we're in a hard patch for cinema.

So Furiosa is at number four. Number three is Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. Which has done very well. Despite the fact it has a very slow first hour, although Child 2 said to me, yeah, you don't know what you're talking about because the slow first hour is what makes the second hour work because it's the world building. And I'm increasingly inclined to believe that my children know more about things than I do. Two films that are not underperforming, I would have thought. Garfield is at number two, and If is at number one. I mean, who would have thought it? Well, I have two words, which is half term. So, the Garfield movie, I mean, the Garfield movie,

it sucks really, but it's a family-friendly movie, if it has got some interesting ideas but doesn't really work. But both of those have done well because you've had the half-term weekend, people have been looking for stuff to do, and anyone can go along and see them. It is a perfect example of how it's circumstantial. It's like if you'd taken those movies at any other time, we wouldn't be in this position in which they are number one and number two with you know, planet Earth. But that's what it is. It was half-term. Correspondence at coedomeo.com, if you see any of those movies, once you've been to see something,

we'd love to know what you think about it. Send us an email at correspondence at coedomeo.com. Richard Linklater is on the way, but delightfully, we just have time now to step with Gaia Bandon holding hands into our laughter lift. Well, hey, Mark. Hi. Welcome to the laughter lift. The good lady ceramicist asked me this week if I've seen the dog bowl. I said I didn't even know you could play cricket. Hey! I said I didn't even know he could play cricket. Day! Talking of a different kind of bowling, Mark, I read this week that historians have discovered that William Tell and his son belong to a bowling club. Sadly, it's not been possible to find out the name of their club, so we'll never know for whom the Tells bowled. Okay. Yeah.

Disappointed. Better. Oh, hang on. I've just got a text from Child3, a little bit late, I have to say. It asked him to send me an article detailing some recommended watching for this week's guest. Apparently it gives a very good summary of Dazed and Confused, Everybody Wants Some, Boyhood and Before Midnight. He says he's going to send me the link later.

Anyway, that's not quite as helpful as I was hoping. At last, a reaction. Still to come, Mark. Still to come, the new Bad Boys film. Yes, there is another one. And Hitman with our special guest, Richard Linklater, who is on the way. This episode is brought to you by RBC Student Banking. Students, get $100 when you open an RBC Advantage Banking account,

which includes no monthly fee, unlimited debit transactions in Canada, Avion points on debit purchases, and so, so much more. Unlock more perks for less with RBC Vantage. Conditions apply. Offer ends June 30, 2024. New eligible clients only. Complete criteria by August 30, 2024. Visit rbc.com slash student 100. Because the Skip app saves you so much time by delivering stuff like your favorite cool treats, groceries, and bevies, you get to spend the summer doing what you really want. Like successfully cutting your jeans into jorts. Yes!

Shipping the kids off to summer camp. Yes! Or winning the annual Schellenberg Family Water Balloon Fight. Yes! Shipping the kids off to summer camp. Yes! Or winning the annual Schellenberg Family Water Balloon Fight. Yes! Suck it, Aunt Susan. Yup, definitely the best summer ever. Squeeze more summer out of summer with Skip. Did somebody say skip?

So welcome back. I mean, obviously, if you're a Vanguard Easter, you never went away, but I'm just saying that to be inclusive and warm and sincere. This week's guest is Richard Linklater. His new film is Hitman, comes out on June the 7th. My chat with Richard coming up first, a clip from Hitman. You're not a Hitman. You can't be. You've got old puppies, you were late with the kids. You've opened every door for me tonight. And yet you kill people for money.

Shivali may be dead, but I didn't kill him. And I tried looking you up and nothing. It's like you don't even exist. I guess I'm just your fantasy. OK. We'll see about that. I mean, I don't want to... No, I do want to know. What, does a gentleman not kill a town? Okay, for the record, I love people.

Yet you killed them. Well, just randomly. That's a clip from Hitman. I'm delighted to say I've been joined by its director and co-writer, Richard Linklater. Richard, how are you, sir? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm all right. Do you like this part of the process, going out and telling people?

You know, it's so different than making—when you make a movie, you never think about having to talk about it. But when you have a finished film and people start asking different questions than you've ever been asked, like a producer or a studio head or whoever you're working with, they don't ask certain questions. So, it's interesting. I choose to look at it therapeutically.

What does that mean? Like your motives or I don't know, depends on what you ask. Okay. But you know, there's a certain element that it's far from the practical part, it's some theoretical things. So sometimes it can be interesting to talk about. I just wonder if you're kind of really keen to get out there and tell people about your film.

So I enjoy speaking to directors. No, in my real life, no, would I rather be on my farm watching a movie? Yeah, whatever. You got to do what you got to do in this world, right? Yes. So, introduce us to your, into Hitman and where it all started, which is, I mean, I know sometimes it's magazine articles that spark movies, but we're going back to 2001. This was definitely a magazine article from Texas Monthly in 2001.

I read this article, and I'm friends with the writer, Skip Hounsworth. At that point, I had already optioned another article by him that ends up becoming, years later, my movie, Bernie, with Jack Black. So, this is about such an odd world of Gary Johnson who plays a undercover cop posing as a hitman. All these people who want to bump off their spouse or their business partner. It's a real phenomenon, pop culture phenomenon brought on by movies and books,

but they don't exist. Isn't that fascinating that these retail hitmen, obviously there's mob and there's affiliated killings and executions and drug deals and all that, but this notion that I could just find someone to go kill somebody, that's just a myth. And that's the point which is made in your movie. And I think a number of people go, really? I've seen loads of TV shows and loads of films where if I want a hit man or woman, probably I could go and get one. Well, what does it say about, it's kind of a consumerist notion, isn't it? But they don't exist.

You can purchase anything, even the death of another person. I mean, I guess it makes sense. But if you really look at the incentives, as he says in the movie, it really doesn't make any sense from the hitman. Like you're really going to risk the death penalty in the US for someone you just met. It's shocking to me. I've seen all these surveillance tapes, listened to a lot of these red transcripts. I know more about fake hitmen than anyone who probably isn't a fake hitman at this point, because I've spent decades kind of researching it.

And it's just fascinating how delusional people are. So we're talking about, played by Glenn Powell, a real person called Gary Johnson, who died just a couple of years ago. And he was a professor. Yeah, he was a college instructor. And he just had a little bit of a sideline helping the police. Yeah, it was kind of a side gig that doesn't speak well about teacher salaries, you know. He needed this other job.

But yeah, and he found he had a knack for it, even though he's this kind of introverted guy living alone with his cats. Like a lot of actors, I think there's kind of shy people who feel comfortable fully expressing themselves in a role. I think Gary found his calling like, oh, he was really good at that. He really could be the hit man people wanted him to be. So, what is the kind of thing that he would have to do? He would alter his appearance a little bit.

But he was a pretty formidable guy, smart, and he had a kind of reserve about him and a confidence. You know, he had been a Vietnam vet. He had been in the military police. He was just stoic enough. I think people said, okay, I'm dealing with the stone cold killer here. In fact, he's this Buddhist, quiet guy, but I could see where he would emphasize that, he would come off with that. And also your movie starts by saying it's kind of almost a true story. So it's based on this real guy,

who you also spoke to a number of times, and you read the article. But then Glenn Powell comes along. Because you mentioned 2001 is when the article... That's a long time ago. It sure is. 19 years later, during the pandemic, I get a call from my buddy Glenn Powell. Hey, I read this article about this fake hitman. I said, Glenn, I read that article when it came out, when you were a kid. But we started talking about it and it kicked in with me. I was kind of on my own with that thinking it didn't really work. But then Glenn and I got to talking, again, pandemic,

we had plenty of time and we kind of started pulling the threads of what could maybe make it a movie. And that did mean a departure. It's got its feet in the real world. Gary's a real guy, those cats, and you know, his whole life. But we really took a flight of fancy with her. Once he lets her off, everything from then on is kind of this thrill ride. Because you would stick with, as I understand, your instinct would be to stay with the facts. Other movies I've done based on non-fiction, I've always, for some reason, felt this need to

make it as absolutely authentic to what really happened in the world. But no one gives you a medal at the end of that. No one says, you know, So I was like, yeah, this story had been frustrating me because I didn't think it was a movie. So once we made the leap to like follow this, it just got much more interesting and the themes dialed in and the genres kind of kicked in. The film noir, the screwball comedy, that all happened. So yeah, but at least we admit it.

I didn't want to be one of those films that based on true events and then, what does that even mean? Films are constructs. Even if I was trying to, those films I talk about trying to get it right, you can't, you know, to what degree can you and to what degree does it even matter? This movie's about like artifice and it's all fake. It's about myths. So, I had no problem creating a whole other layer of myth within that, just because that's kind of the ride we're on here. But we admit it, at the end it's like, oh, well, you know, we made that part up. I didn't want to be one of those films that's acting like I was very transparent in our,

you know, what we did. What did the real Gary Johnson input into it? What did he think of this movie that would, I would imagine, be completely amazed that you're making a film of his life? You would think, right? But I talked to Gary on the phone quite a bit, and he was the most non-plus guy. Even like, I thought I'd have to like, win him over to even let me do the film. And he's like, he kind of cut me short. You know, he's like, yeah, Skip says you're a good guy, so sounds fine. It's like, hey, so I think the movie's happening. Well, sounds good. And he was really this little detached zen master of a guy who I don't think he was too invested in what someone else was going to do with the story. He was very a kind guy, but I don't think he was too attached to anything in a beautiful way.

Mason- Is it relevant? You mentioned Zen a couple of times. He's a professor of psychology. Is all that tied up with his ability to pretend to be someone else? Because I think your film is suggesting that he's pretending to be someone else, and then he kind of becomes someone else. Well, that's the question. Can we change? Can we become something? And I think, as he has a long conversation with his ex-wife,

who they're very close, and she says, well, it's the as if. Like, you don't go away, but can you dial up a different personality? I don't think you can be someone else completely, but I think you can be someone else completely, but I think you can selectively emphasize certain elements of your personality. And I think a lot of us feel like we have someone else

in us that just hasn't come out. I think that's an okay empowering, optimistic feeling to seeing like, oh, in this case it's an introversion, extraversion, dispassionate, passionate, it's an introversion, extroversion, dispassionate, passionate. You know, it's on those charts. He becomes Ron. Yeah.

Well, he becomes a number of characters. Ron doesn't overthink things. Ron's much more of a sexual being. He's more passionate. You know, I mean, Ron kills people for a living, right? It's, you know, so Gary kind of transforms. he realizes he kind of likes Ron. Ron's having more fun in the world than Gary. So, it's a fun story to get into role play.

Do we all have a Ron? Do you have a Ron inside you, Richard? Yeah, I think I'm probably a little more Gary, but yeah, there's a little Ron in there. So what happens when Gary slash Ron meets Madison, played by, is it Adria Arjona? Adria Arjona, yeah. Adria. Yes. So what happens at that point? Because that's when we tip into something else. Fortunately, the roulette wheel has spun and he's landed on Ron to be the one meeting Adria, Madison's character. Because he's this kind of smoldering kind of confident guy he thinks she would like to think of as a hitman. And so in Ron's character, they really do kind of hit it off. She's attracted

to him. I don't think she would have been as attracted to some of the other hitmen. And he knows this. He's attracted to her probably when he first sees her profile. We see him looking at it. So he's dialed in something for her. And it works. It works. It's like a good first date. You know, like anyone can play act being a good person or all these things for a little while.

And you see that happen. But then the movie takes the leap and says, what if they're kind of meant for each other? What if they're actually, you know, it's a great love story, you know? So that's the fun conceit. Then it becomes kind of a screwball comedy. Okay. So you mentioned a number of different genres. So I can imagine people listening to this go, okay, is it screwball comedy? Is it a love story, noir, crime, action? What are you making here? All the above. Yeah, it was a fun mashup of genres and it wasn't conscious. It wasn't

until we were in it and I was like, oh, this is kind of Phil Norrish. Oh, well, if we do that, that's a screwball comedy. So, I appreciate that. I don't think there's anything too original in the world, but I think you can kind of put things together maybe that you haven't exactly seen before. But it wasn't really that conscious. There's a scene near the end when they're under pressure and they're kind of acting on three different levels. They're being recorded. Their whole notion of freedom is on the line. They're in a really precarious situation, and you see them

dig their way out of it. And it's fun. It's fun to see them have to outweigh it. It might be that people go and see a movie because it's called Hitman, but the important thing is, it's a Richard Linklater movie called Hitman. Because this is a Hitman movie where there's more philosophy than violence. Yeah, there's not that much violence. I wasn't going to... People are like, a Hitman? You're making a... It's like, well, you have to see the movie. I know it's got that title, but it's not really... It's my version of a Hitman movie. So the worst thing someone could say to you is, Richard, this is a very brave choice. It's a very brave choice. It's very great.

It might be very exciting for you to be working on it, but from a studio point of view. Yeah, it's like, ooh, that sounds like death at the box. I don't know. I think algorithms lead toward something you've seen before. It all arcs toward mediocrity and the sameness, you know? That's probably the challenge of our time, is to get outside of that, you know, somehow. So what are you working on next? Illustrate that point. Oh, well, I'm lucky. I just do the film that I'm interested in doing, you know, for whatever

reasons, and it can be a lot of different things. But I just wrapped a film I shot in Paris, set in 1959, kind of amongst the new wave. So it's a film about cinephilia. It's a film about... Is that the nouvelle vague thing? Yeah. Before we finish, I just need to say, because otherwise my family will give me a hard time, thank you for our family film, because School of Rock, we've seen more times than any other film as a family.

Did any kids pick up an instrument or no drum kits brought into the house? They knew every line. Oh, that's very sweet. Every rock song, it was the introduction really to rock. So it was... Well, that was our... I did while making that film, you know, go, you know, kids, we're going to turn them on to some, you know, like that older, that uncle or that older sister who says, oh, you've never heard this album

and put it in your hand, go check this out. So that movie maybe, the way you describe it is perpetually that older sibling or uncle saying, check this out. I had a significant birthday and invited a bunch of folk and we watched three movies. I programmed three movies. So this is for a wide audience. Apollo 13, Mary Poppins, which is the first film that I ever saw, and School of Rock. And it was a blast. Three crowd pleasers, I would say. I think so.

Yeah, well, that's good. Richard Linklater, always a pleasure. Thank you very much, Steve, for coming on. Well, nice talking with you. No, I wasn't 100% sure on mentioning School of Rock at the end because I know that Richard Linklater didn't write that. It was written by the actor who played Mr. Schneebly, whose name I can't remember just at the moment. But- Mike White. There you go. That's right. Mike White with Jack Black. And anyway, I thought it was,

but I just had to mention it and he seemed very pleased to be talking about it as well. Anyway, a Richard Lichtlater interview, he is probably the most laid back director of all time, would you say? He's stunningly laid back. I did him on stage and I did say to him, what's your name, Freddie Jones? Freddie Jones, shut up. He did laugh. I think he still finds School of Rock funny, even though he didn't write it.

What a brilliant thing for somebody to say to you, I played three movies at my birthday. One of them was Mary Poppins. One of them was the film that you made. What an amazing thing. He did seem genuinely pleased. I liked him all the more. The crowd pleases him already. But I wasn't quite sure what he was going to say. Anyway, the latest one is Hitman's very interesting film. What do you think? Yeah. So capery, slippery thriller. As he said, it's adapted from a Texas Monthly article way, way back by Skip Oldsworth, who also was the source of Bernie. And of course, there

is a connection with Bernie in as much as, you know, Bernie is a biographical black comedy, crime drama. Actually, it actually a really interesting film. They're companion pieces. This tells, as you said, the almost true story of a fake hit man who also taught at college. I love the fact that he said that when he was talking to the real Gary Johnson who's no longer with us, he just was not interested in the movie.

He said, he's like, no, yeah, fine. The film is fiction and the ending makes very clear what was made up, but it has its roots in, or as Link later said, its feet in the real story. So Glenn Powell is Gary Johnson. He's a college instructor teaching psychology to students who don't care. They're completely bored. He moonlights doing undercover work for the New Orleans PD. Then a colleague can't do the undercover work and he's told, okay, you have to go in and be the fake hitman. You're the person who has to pose as a hitman in order to get somebody to attempt to hire you so that we can then arrest them for that crime. He's very nervous, but the minute he gets into the room, he goes into character and he's a different guy. Somebody said of the real Gary Johnson, he was the Lawrence Olivier of this profession.

Of course, in this particular case, our central character goes from being this schnibly light character into suddenly being Ron, who's got all this charisma and all this cool. He then does that a number of times and he finds himself starting to change to some extent. But he describes himself, as you heard in that clip, in everyone's fantasy, including Adria Ionis Madi, who meets him as Ron and then meets him later on as Ron and has sort of fallen for Ron and they start to have a relationship in which it's all about he's playing a role, maybe she's playing a role. And in fact it was very interesting when Linklater said the facts really aren't the key thing because in the end, the whole thing is about artifice.

Because real hitmen aren't real. They're just a construction of the movies and people think they know about them because they've seen films. It's a film about a reality that is constructed by movies in which everything is artificial. I'm a really big fan of Richard Linklater. I can't quite get my head around the fact that he's done so many different things. You were saying, what is this? You say screwball comedy, which gives you the wisecracking dialogue, also gives you the fact that it's very gender balanced, that men or women can hold their own equally.

You get the film noir thing which gives you the twisty narrative and the double-crossing daring do. Elsewhere, you get romance, which of course we've seen with Link Latter-Voy in the before films. Comedy, School of Rock, which we all think is one of the funniest films ever made. Coming of Age stories, Slackers, Boyhood. I mean, he just does all of this.

Actually, my favorite Richard Linklater film is Me and Orson Welles, which is a historical biographical drama, again, based on a true story, but taking liberties with it. So what this is, is it's really good fun. It's a sexy twisty thriller. It's got some neat ideas about identity. You were saying, is it important that he's talking to his students about psychology? Of course it is, because at the very beginning, he basically asks them, how much do you know yourself? How much is identity a construct? That's really the sort of knotty thing that's going on underneath all this.

Can we change who we are? Can you dial up a different personality? But actually, the thing that Ling Leater is enjoying is the genre stuff. It feels to me like, I say screwball comedy, film noir, crime thriller, romance, all thrown together. I really think that Linklater is enjoying himself. Yes, it's deliberately overcooked.

It goes well off into the realms of ripe melodrama. The performances are very ripe, particularly when Gary is doing all the different hitmen persona with these ridiculous wigs and ridiculous facial expressions and accents that he's experimenting with. He's having an absolute ball. One thing is interesting. I spoke to Link later about this on stage a couple of weeks ago,

and he said, I do want people to see it in cinemas. It's on Netflix now. It has had a very limited cinema release. I actually think it works perfectly fine on Netflix. I understand any filmmaker saying, look, I'd like people to see my movie in cinemas. But the thing is, I think it works perfectly fine at home because it's really enjoyable. If it's Friday evening, sit down and watch this. It's a really, really good fun ride. And yes, there's depth and other stuff going on in there, but it's a really good fun film. You say that, you say that, but you say that Friday night, you can either watch the Richard Linklater film or the seven way political discussion, which I think is on the BBC with

some of the leaders and some of the deputy leaders. I mean, it's a tough one. It's a head-scratcher, isn't it? It's a tough one. What are you going to go for? What says Friday night more than watching a bunch of politicians not answer the question or shout and interrupt each other? Oh my goodness.

Yeah. So basically, you could watch something in which people pretend to be something they're not, in which they lie for a living, in which they basically deceive and cheat. Or you could watch Hitman. There you go. And we'll be back in just a moment with what's the film we're looking at next? Bad Boys Ride or Die. And I think we know enough just in the way Mark said the title of the film. Find out more in a moment. This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. As a podcast listener, you've heard from us before. Today?

Let's hear what members have told us. One member said, I would recommend my therapist 1,000 times over. She has truly changed my life. Another member said, the day after my first session, my friends and family said I sounded like myself again for the first time in weeks. You deserve to invest in your well-being. Visit BetterHelp.com to see what it can do for you. That's betterHELP.com.

I had an experience once with somebody who wanted to like role play like um like with relative stuff. No. Yes. No. And I couldn't. And I said, they wanted, they first said, like, dad, daddy. And I said, but so I suggested maybe like, I said, maybe the most I could do was uncle. Okay, so that was just a snippet of an episode with actor and podcaster Justin Long. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson, and I'm telling you, you need to listen to the full episode on my podcast, Dinner's on Me. Over a meal at Pine and Crane in downtown LA, we get into his love story with Kate Bosworth,

his career and so much more. To listen, just search Dinner's On Me wherever you listen to podcasts. ["Dinner's On Me"] Right, before bad boys ride or die, Nicky from Lincoln has emailed Mark and Simon. About six months ago, I started journaling every film I went to see in the cinema. It's been a really rewarding experience for me, as not only have I started watching films I would never have before, but I'm traveling around the East Midlands and discovering new places and venues in the process,

especially when watching less well-known films. It was when I started doing this that I discovered your podcast. I was searching for a review of how to have sex. Careful how you Google that. And I came up with you guys on YouTube. I do think that you both have been instrumental in persuading me to watch films

I wouldn't necessarily have been instrumental in persuading me to watch films I wouldn't necessarily have been interested in before. Last week I had a day out in Leicester to the lovely Phoenix Cinema and I did a double bill of La Quimera and Horde, both based on your suggestions. I wouldn't have seen either of these if it wasn't for your podcast, so thank you. Living in Lincolnshire, the local cinema brands aren't great for limited releases, but I have discovered fantastic venues further afield. Phoenix is as mentioned above, but also the Louth Playhouse and Kinamar in the woods. I imagine you say that, but it's got a

capital K. In Woodhall Spa, which is an organist, popped through the floor on Fridays and Saturdays during the intermission and is the only cinema in the UK that still uses rear projection. I'm excited to see where I travel to next and what recommendations you have for me. Well, Nicky, thank you very much indeed for your email. Maybe one of your trips will be to see Bad Boys Ride or Die. However, having listened to how Mark just said the words of the title a few seconds back, maybe not. Here we go. Well, look, okay, so this is the fourth film in a franchise that began back in the 90s. When the first Bad Boys came out, I was at Radio 1 before I had kids, before I knew who Michael Bay was. And it was one of those Simpson-Brookline, high concept movies, high concept meaning you can

pitch it in one sentence. So they're good cops, but they're bad boys. So, Martin Lawrence, who took top billing on the first two films, and Will Smith, and Marks and Mike, Miami narcotics detectives with a wild streak and they got like 72 hours to bust a case. That's the first film. Michael Bay directing, doing what he did, lots of cars, lots of swearing, lots of guns, dealing with some... It's not bad. It cost 19 million, took something like 140. So you then, 2003, get Bad Boys 2. Martin Lawrence still gets top billing at that point. Michael Bay's still directing, same shtick as before. This time it's two and a half hours long. Budget's up to 130 million because now Smith and Bay are incredibly expensive.

But the box office still makes it, I think, $270 or something. They get away with it. Enough. Many, many years later, 2020, bad boys for life. By now, Will Smith is now getting top billing because he's Will Smith as opposed to Martin Lawrence. Martin Lawrence's career has peaked with Big Mama's House.

New directors, Belgian rock and co-directors Adil and Bilal, and budget now down to 90 million, running time down to two hours, box office 420 something million. So now, bad boys ride or die. Will Smith, again, top banana despite the Oscar slapping incident. Adil and Bilal directing after having because they made Batgirl, that of course was famously shelved. Running time, again, around about two hours, budget around about 100 million. The story is, okay, so Mike and Marcus are older. Mike is tying the knot. Marcus is still married to Theresa. He's got health problems. He's addicted to candy and hot dogs. He has a heart attack at one point that gives him mystical visions.

There's a whole mystical vision section and then he comes back thinking that he's unbreakable. So he does that, that's what Martin Lawrence does. Will Smith does Will Smith. The plot finds them, they become fugitives from the law, because along with Mike's criminal son, Armando, see previous movie for full explanation. And the name of the late Captain Howard, see previous movies for explanation, gets dragged through the dirt and is accused of being involved in a whole bunch of drug cartel stuff. So they're outlaws, but they have to prove that he wasn't out. Anyway, here's a clip.

Hey, Reggie, you eat my snacks? No, sir. You ate my snacks, didn't you? You need to get a job.'t. Now, anyway, here's a clue. Hey, Reggie, did you eat my snacks? No, sir. You ate my snacks, didn't you? You need to get a job. I'm a US Marine, sir. Well, then you need to deploy. Dad, look. We now have evidence that the late Captain Conrad Howard

of Miami PD was working directly with drug cartels for years. Captain Howard's being framed. Let's go. What the hell? He's texting us from the other side. No he's not Marcus. If he's seeing this I'm probably dead.

Come on. I don't know how high up this shit goes but don't trust anybody. You're my bad boys. Now clear my name. So they have to clear his name. Now from the opening shot it's the usual stuff. It's Miami, beaches, bikinis, car chasing, bad boys, swearing, you know where you are. Although I have to say that increasingly these films look like Fast and Furious movies.

Will Smith does Will Smith and he does Will Smith completely effortlessly. That's what he does. He's fine. Martin Lawrence seems to be involved in a wrestling match with his entire face from the outset. It's as if he can't quite control his mouth or his eyeballs. I mean, it's as much flirting with clowny, gooning as marrying it. I mean, he's annoying almost instantly. And then the cameras fly hither and yon. They fly in drones, they come on the end of guns, they fly with bullets, they go this way, that way. Some of it is very visually stylish.

There's one sequence in which the POV seems to be a continuous shot that looks every possible which way and you go, okay, fine, well, that's quite interesting. Then it turns into a first person shooter computer video game. There are whirly copter crashes, there are plane crashes, there were car crashes, there were body crashes. Everything is shot at Miller time. Rear seahorse is completely wasted, which is really sad because I kept watching it thinking she was so brilliant in Bedacor's Soul. Why does she have absolutely nothing to do here? The humor is so broad it could give Norfiger run for its money. Everyone gets shot, stabbed, blown up at least once.

None of it has any impact. I kind of drifted in and out. I occasionally wondered whether Will Smith thought that after winning the Oscar there'd be another Bad Boys movie, although honestly the amount of money they're making, it kind of makes sense. I mean, this will take money. It has a cameo in it by Michael Bay. And the cameo by Michael Bay is, I think, less than three seconds long. And it's incredibly irritating. He's literally on screen with his terrible hair and his terrible face and his terrible everything for about three seconds. And I wanted to punch him. But for the rest of the film, it's, you know bad boys, it's that. It's literally that. It's that

thing that they do, and I find Will Smith fine, and I find Martin Lawrence annoying, and somebody really needs to dial him down dramatically. Like I said, the fact that there's a after-life down dramatically. Like I said, the fact that there's a kind of afterlife hallucination sequence, you go, well, I hadn't thought about that before. Oh, and there's an albino alligator or albino alligator. It is exactly what it is. No more or no less. But there's something about this that makes me think this started before I had children. And both of my children have grown up and left home, and it's still going. I have a question. I know you have addressed the principle of this question before. Many people will have seen the poster for Bad Boys Ride or Die.

It has both of them, Will Smith and Martin Lawrence are pictured with guns ready. You know, it looks as if they're back to back. And on the left it says Will Smith above a picture of Martin Lawrence. And on the right it says Martin Lawrence above a picture of Will Smith. You think? Yes. This is, this is nuts. I know this has happened before, but you could just flip the picture and it

would all make sense because it looks ridiculous on the poster. Yeah. The reason is it's to do with the order that names appear in is contractual. And then the people that come up with the poster image just come up with the poster image that they think is the right... You know, it's like Ant and Dec always appear, I mean, I never know which way, I'm like Bill Nye, yes, thank you very much, Ant or Dec. But there is no consistency between the image that the people think is the correct image and the way in which the credits work. And as I said, it is this odd thing that Martin Lawrence used to be the guy on the name on

the left and Will Smith was the name on the right for the first two films and then at three it was flipped around. It's contractual and yet it's really annoying, but it's not as annoying as the three second cameo by Michael Bay. It's terrible here. I can see how it might be important to have your name first, so in which case just flip the picture. You're not more important if you're on the left or the right. Have Will Smith above Will Smith. I mean, it's what anyone would do. But Simon, a company has been paid a huge amount of money to test that image. A company has been paid a massive, massive amount of money to test that image. And if you flipped it, well then, I

mean, you just have to pay another company a massive amount of money to flip and test it. I mean, it would just be wrong. A just despair of the state of the world. Anyway, that's the end of take one of Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Lily, Gully, Vicki, Zachy, Matty and Bethy. The producer was Jem, even the redactor was Simon Paul. Mark, what is your Film of the Week? Well, absolutely, The Dead Don't Hurt. And I admit, it's a niche Western.

But seriously, it's really, really well worth seeing in the cinema. If you want to see something at home, my Film of the Week is Hitman. Bonus and premium content has landed alongside this podcast. Check that out. I think it's pretty fine actually, and we'll see you soon.