Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Robert Redford remembered + Paul Greengrass on THE LOST BUS

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

Vanguardistas have more fun—so if you don’t already subscribe to the podcast, join the Vanguard today via Apple Podcasts or extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. In return you’ll get a whole extra Take 2 alongside Take 1 every week, with bonus reviews, more viewing recommendations from the Good Doctors and whole bonus episodes just for you. And if you’re already a Vanguardista, we salute you.  Simon and Mark remember true movie legend Robert Redford, who passed away this week. We hear your favourite Redford films, memories of him as a style icon and more. Plus, the Good Doctors talk about meeting the great man himself on stage, and the surprising effect he had on their audience.  Paul Greengrass—legendary director of the Bourne movies, Captain Philips, United 93 and many more—is our guest this week. His latest movie is The Lost Bus—the gripping true story of a bus driver and schoolteacher’s attempt to evacuate 22 children from a vicious wildfire in Paradise, California, starring Matthew McConaughey and America Ferrera. Greengrass tells Simon how he brought this real-life story to the screen, how he recreated the terror of a wildfire with practical effects, and loads more from the making of this white-knuckle ride. He's always a treat to hear from, so don’t miss it.   Mark reviews it too, plus two more shiny new releases for your eyeballs. First, ‘Steve’, starring the ever-excellent Cillian Murphy as the burnt out headteacher of a reform school struggling to keep it together. And from gritty to glossy, we’ve got A Big Bold beautiful Journey for you too—a rom com with a sprinkling of magic starring Colin Farrell and Margot Robbie as a could-be-couple taking a time travelling tour of their respective pasts.   Top correspondence from our top-drawer listeners as always—including for a new feature. We’re inviting you to send us your Shameless Plugs—whatever you’re working on right now in the world of all things film and film-adjacent—let us know what it is and how we can get involved. Emails and voice notes welcome!   And don’t forget you can now watch the full show on YouTube too!     Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free):  Steve Review: 14:03  Box Office Top Ten: 21:33  Paul Greengrass Interview: 31:08  The Lost Bus Review: 47:21  Laughter Lift: 57:58  A Big Bold Beautiful Journey Review: 01:00:26        You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo  Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.      Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. Hello, film lovers and moviegoers. This is Simon Mayo. And this is Mark Kermode, bringing you the best podcast for the latest film reviews. On the Take This Week. You can hear reviews of Opus, Black Bag and Sister Midnight, and our very special guests are Erin Doherty and Ashley Walters, talking about adolescence, a new drama on Netflix. plus the inevitable conversation about Jason Isaacs and White Lotus.

How low can you go? Very, very, very low. And if you're not following the pod already, what's wrong with you? Please do so wherever you get your podcast. We hope you enjoy the show. I'm staring into the void. The void is looking back. at me.

Mark, he's got a black t-shirt on with a white, it's got like a white circle at the top. Oh, it's the modern lovers. It's the modern lovers. I just try and identify them,

but your camera is angled at such a way that I can only see the top bit. Actually, I think I'm angled. I think my chair is low. Can I start by saying, it's modern lovers time. It is modern lovers.

I apologize for my voice because I know that my voice is scratchy, graty, and I think it's because I've been talking too much, and I'm certain that everybody will understand that, but I apologize for the fact that I'm doing this. I'm trying to turn it into a kind of, you know, like a gruff radio voice, you know, or like whispering Bob, because whispering Bob's voice never sounds strained.

Yeah. The thing is, his voice comes from a completely different place, all together. Even when you're just saying, hello, Bob, how are you? And he says, I'm doing fine, how are you? It's still that voice, you know, it's not a compressive. voice. It's just that it comes from somewhere altogether different. I think he's built biologically different to everyone else. Can I tell you a story? I was on stage on Monday and I was doing the MK3D show and Killian Murphy was on for a film that we're going to be talking about later on, Steve.

And he was very good and he was, you know, he did the usual thing about, you talked about the film, but also talked about how much he doesn't enjoy doing press. And I said, well, of course, except us. And then we got onto the subject of the interview that you and I did with him. him around the time of inception in which you asked him, are you in the new Chris Nolan, Batman? And he said, I'm not going to talk about that at all. And you said, are you in it? And he said, I'm not going to talk about that at all. Yeah. Anyway, he was telling this story at the NFT, and it was very funny. And he was describing your repetition of the question. And he said, it was like being in a Beckett play. He said, suddenly it was one of those things with the

question just kept getting asked. Anyway, huge round of applause. So a joke that he made about you asking him that question was the highlight of the evening. Well, it was genuinely funny. It was genuinely funny. It was one of those moments and the film benefited from that. You know, these NDA things. They're very, very, very strange. Anyway, he sent to enough, but he sends his love. Oh, well, that's very nice. That's very good. So when we get to talk about, I'm aware that, you know, asking you to talk. No, I'm fine, I'm fine. The stay of your voice is because you've been talking a lot. And in this podcast, you have to talk a lot.

What have I been talking a lot about, Simon? Well, I imagine you've been talking about the weather, and I would think maybe have been talking about how great... But what have I mainly been talking about? Well, that, I think. Would I be wrong? Yes, I've been talking about my book, which is out. Oh, have you got a book out?

I have got a book out. I have got a book out, yes. Because you didn't send me one. So I had to buy one, so I wasn't quite... I offered to repay you. Have you read it? It hasn't arrived. But you've paid for it.

Did you not get next day delivery? Well, I thought I had, but it hasn't arrived. It's coming in a package with the Good Lady Professor her indoors his book, so maybe... Oh, fine. That's what's holding up. Have you literally bought both of them, and they're both arriving in the same package? Well, I don't know if they're arriving in the same... I'm assuming that they are.

Maybe that's why they're not here. It's like a commodeon double bill. If it... Do not say that or I'll get a smacked around the head from the good lady. Professor Herr-indorce. Kermode Williamsian double-bill. I know. If they both arrive together, which one will you read first?

Hers. Correct answer. Correct answer. Precisely, that's... I will say hers, but probably secretly be reading yours. Don't say that out loud. Okay. What are you going to be reviewing a little bit later on on this podcast, assuming your voice holds out?

Well, it's a fascinating show. We've got Steve, which is this new movie that Killian Murphy's in and that he's also produced, so he's very excited about that. A big, bold, beautiful journey with Colin Farrell and Margot Robbie and The Lost Bus, which brings us to our very special guest. Yes, it's next in a series of occasional interviews with Paul Greengrass. So the director of The Lost Bus is going to be with us. Don't miss that because he's as entertaining as normal. What else is going on then later on? In T2, we have bonus reviews of The Glass Worker, which is a really interesting animation.

Ebony and Ivory, which is the new film from the maker of The Greasy Strangler. And also, it turned out when we jumped on the program link this morning, that you and I have now both seen, or at least we've both seen some of. One of us has seen all of it, the Thursday Murder Club. And so it's not, you know, it's not a new release this week, but we will do the Thursday Murder Club because I think it needs to be. be done, but needs a doing. Is that what you're saying? Yes, because one of us, one of us bailed out. Sorry. I did. That is true. And all the other wonderful stuff which you get, should you be a subscriber, which is a very lovely thing, become a subscriber and grow six inches taller because that's a proven medical fact. Thank you very much for the emails. It is true. Correspondence

at coda mea.com. We've had a number of emails about Robert Redford. obviously, who passed, sadly, this week. And I'll get to some of them in just a moment. And obviously the obits have been ready for a long time because within five minutes of the announcement, there was an incredible, like, 15-minute read in the New York Times with all the iconic photographs in one particular article. And I know there are lots and lots of other movies to consider,

but have two men ever looked better? than Paul Newman and Robert Redford in Butch and Sundance, whether they be the black and white photographs or the colour ones where they're leaning up against the door. Just genuinely astonishing. Well, can I say that they look equally fabulous in The Sting? Yes, I think Butch and Sundance wins slightly. But anyway, let's just see what we've got here.

Bernie Scroggins, we were basically saying top Robert Redford performance. performances. Yes. What comes to mind. Bernie Scroggins, Butch Cassidy, the Sundance Kid, for sheer 1,000-watt star power and charisma. The Old Man and the Gun, great later performance. Film isn't brilliant, but Redford shines. Three days of the Condor, an understated performance, but carries the film beautifully. Russell George says, all the president's men, sneakers, because he makes it look so effortless. And despite the sting and the natural and Sundance, all being top tier, all is lost because it's just him all the way through. Yeah. Trellis says sneakers, just an utterly charming film. If it's been on five minutes, if I join and it's five minutes in or just 20 minutes to go, I'll always sit and watch. Neil Hallam, so, so difficult, but off the top of my head, the last castle, the electric horseman and the old man and the gun. Someone who appears to be called the Hollins Eco-Anarchist collective. They take it in terms to be executive officer of the week. Gatsby, Butch and Sundance,

and all the President's men would be my entirely predictable, uncontroversial picks, but probably his greatest contribution to cinema, would be all the work that came to light via the Sundance Festival and his championing of independent vision. Yes. Mahamad Shakir says, Out of Africa is an underrated performance. The performance is scenery and score, all working in harmony. Colin McDougal, top three,

all the President's men, spy game and barefoot in the park. Although considering journalism at the moment, number one becomes less a realistic performance of a real person and more a brilliant fictional performance about what journalism should be. I saw someone today suggest that everyone at the Washington Post should sit down and watch it all the way through before they resume their work.

Very good. Mr. Wapow Jif, anyway, all is lost, thought this was a brilliant later career performance from him very physical and not much dialogue. Before a general consideration, What would you throw into the mix in terms of stuff to watch? Well, I'm sort of surprised that no one's brought up the way we were because that really was, I mean, it's a great performance and it's a great film.

I remember going to see it in the cinema when it first came out. And, you know, I was young and it was a kind of grown-up film. But it was absolutely just a wonderful sweeping story. And I watched that film just, you know, a year or so ago, and it's great. I mean, the Sting came out 73 in America, 74 here, famously beat the Exorcist of the Oscar for Best Picture. And I remember seeing that and loving it. And I saw that before I saw Butch and Sundance, which I then loved again.

The great Waldo Pepper is another thing which people kind of overlook because I think that's a great performance. But it is arguable that his greatest contribution other than, you know, as the Sundance Festival, was his work as a director because, you know, he was, you know, he directed ordinary people. He directed quiz show. You know, he was, he was a really great director. In fact, I interviewed him back in the 90s for, I did a radio two documentary about him, about his work as a director. And afterwards, he sent this really nice letter, like a handwritten letter saying that, you know, he enjoyed the program, but more importantly saying, I do think that radio is the greatest

of all mediums. And if, you know, preferably, it would always be radio for me. And I remember thinking, because he had, not only did he look. amazing. He had a brilliant voice, but I love the fact that he was a filmmaker who loved radio. I was recalling the live show that we did when we were on the radio and we had the last hour of the program was with Robert Redford. It was the Sundanceer of London branch, wasn't it? That was, yeah, exactly. We had hundreds of people in the hall. We've done the reviews. So the last hour was Robert Redford, but we all knew that he was famously late for everything.

And thought, you know, we could probably have got away with it somehow, if he'd turn to up at 20 to 4. But fortunately, I think he arrived a minute early and pool face, who was still running things there, said, he arrived a minute early and then said, would it be okay if I went and got a coffee? But he was only joking when he'd seen the look of horror across his face. The other thing. And then you remember when we, it was a great, it was a great conversation with him and I noticed that his watch had been moved to like quarter to four so that we knew so that his watch was permanently that 45 minutes ahead of ordinary time so there was redford time and there was GMT but he still managed to almost be late the other thing I remember really clearly was

when he walked up on stage he looked in the flesh absolutely you know incredible and it was that thing that every now and then when you're in the presence of movie stars their movie stardom shines through and he literally walked on stage and it was like the whole room lit up there was an audible intake of breath because it was Robert Redford and I did a thing on stage with him

at Edinburgh once when I was on stage Edinburgh and he was in the Sundance Institute and he was being beamed live via satellite back at a time when that was still quite a big deal and I was sitting on this thing and I was saying well you know Mr. Redford is going to be coming any moment it was the same thing like it was meant to start

at four o'clock you know, 3.59 and 30 seconds, he wasn't there. And then at 4 o'clock, the thing went on, and suddenly Robert Redford's face, the size of a house, appeared behind me, you know, like the face of God or something. And the whole room went, and it was, yeah, no, it's a proper movie, sir. Can I just read you something that he said in 2019? We're up against a crisis. I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. A dictator-like attack by President Donald Trump on everything this country stands for. Our shared tolerance, respect for the truth, our sacred rule of law, our essential freedom of the press and our precious freedoms of speech, all have been threatened

by a single man. It is time for Trump to go, along with those in Congress who have chosen party loyalty over their oath to solemnly affirm their support for the Constitution of the United States. That was in 2019. David Putnam was on Radio 4 yesterday and he said, I think he was quite upset actually because they were friends and he said he was particularly kind to

him in the mid-80s when Putner was running a Hollywood studio and you know and he said and I was struggling but he was fantastic. Went out of his way to be very supportive for everything that David Putner was trying to do and he said there is a reason that Robert Redford and Tom Hanks

are particularly hated by Trump because they are gutsy and decent people. You know, they are the kind of it's Trump at one and there's Redford and Hanks at the other. So there's a reason for that. And I like the quote that he said, I was born with a hard eye.

I would see what was wrong and what could be better. And Merrill Street, when Merrill Streep said one of the lions has passed, you thought, okay, that's, that's sort of it, really. and that is definitely true. And the way you, I love the idea of him appearing on a screen and everyone gasping

because it's actually him. Correspondence at codemone.com. I'm sure there'll be more Robert Redford stuff later on and in next week's show because it's all still comparatively fresh as we speak at the moment. You've mentioned Killian Murphy and his film, Steve, has to be the most underwhelming film title of all time. But obviously there's a reason for that. Yeah, Steve.

So, Steve is an adaptation of... Love the film, Steve. The film, Steve. Love the film, Steve. It's an adaptation of Max Porter's novella Shai. And so Max Porter has adapted this for the screen. So this is directed by Tim Milons. Now, I don't know whether you remember.

Tim Milance is the Belgian director who made that film Patrick, which was the film that I described as a Belgian, a Belgian nudist tragedy comest. comedy, which is not a phrase that trips easily off the tongue. No, no, it's not. This is co-produced by Killeen Murphy, who also stars in it. So he stars as Steve, as in Love the Show. He's the head teacher in a school which deals with boys who have very acute behavioral

and societal problems. And the school is kind of like their last chance saloon. It's a place where these kids may be given the support that they need, rather than simply falling through the cracks in the system and probably ending up in prison or worse. So the film has a framing device, which is that a local news crew are doing a piece on the school, which is sort of set up by raising the question of, well, you know, is this school doing great work or is it just spending a lot of money on people who really don't deserve it?

Everyone at the school is massively overstretched, including Steve, played by Killian Murphy, who when we meet him gives us an indication of just how stressful everything is. Here's a clip. Shula, can I have a quick word? Let's go to the staff. Sorry, it's just crazy this morning. Are you all good, all good? All good, yeah.

Actually, Steve, can we talk about some stuff to Rome, you know? Yes. Hi, Steve, can I quickly ask. Are we good to have a wander upstairs and look at some shots and outside in the garden? No, no, no, no. Go to the boys' rooms. Yes, to a wander room, but no to the boys' rooms. That's okay. Shola, yes, yes, 100%. Yes, we'll speak. You're top my list. Promise.

Okay. So, Killian Murphy there, and if you recognise the other voice, that's because that's Little Sims. So we see the news crew interviewing some of the kids, many of whom are sweary, rowdy, apparently out of control. One of them, played by Jada Kergo, is the shy of the book's title. We meet the other people working there, who include Tracy Olman's Amanda, and Emily Watson's visiting therapist. Everyone is overstretched, everyone's exhausted, too many challenges, too few resources, but they're all there because they love the kids, because they see potential in them and because they think they are worthy of attention.

However, all the undersourcing that's going on, the school is in danger of being imminently shut down. Now, I haven't read the book, but the film has the same tonal complexity that Patrick did. One of the things that was true about Patrick was that, It mixed humour and tragedy rather brilliantly. But more importantly, as I said, it's a Belgian nudist tragedy comedy. But it was a film that within five minutes, you completely lost the outsider thing about, oh, we're going into a nudist colony, isn't it weird that all these people are walking around

with no clothes on? And you immediately started seeing the world from their point of view. And for the rest of the film, you never thought about the fact that that's the environment you were in. I think that thing about making an outsider's view seem like an insider's view works here as well because you're introduced through this kind of wraparound of the news crew. But five, ten minutes into the film, for all the evident difficulties that the young kids have, you are on the side of the teachers and you're on the side of the kids.

You are on the side of the people who are saying that there is stuff here that is worth investigating stuff here that's worth investing in. And it's, I thought it was a perfect example of the Roger Eber empathy thing that the movie absolutely makes you feel like an insider. And as I was watching it, and it's a very low-key film, but it's got these kind of, these emotional changes. I said, bits of it are really funny, bits of it are really poignant, bits of it really, all the performances are great. I mean, it's no surprise that the, you know, the known cast members are great because you know that people like, you know, Gillian Murphy and Emily Watson are great. But the younger cast are really terrific as well. Some of them, who are complete newcomers to us.

And so you have this central thing, which is the main character, shy, and the main character played by Killian Murphy, they're both wrestling with demons. They've both got things that are going on within them. And there is a kind of strange mirroring all the way through it. And it's a strange little film. It's clearly a passion project. It's something that Killian Murphy has obviously invested a huge amount of time. and energy in. And hats off to him for, you know, you come off the back of something like

Oppenheimer, which is a massive movie of which you win an Oscar. And what do you do? You get on with doing the stuff that you believe in, because he's always done that. He's always made films that he believes in. And I thought there was a fair few laughs, a sort of bittersweet melancholia. And I found the whole thing really engaging and really touching. And it's in cinemas for a while. And then it'll be on streaming. If you get a chance to see it in a cinema do. The reason I say that is because I think it'll be a different film if you see it with an audience laughing at the funny bits because I think sometimes, you know, you feel like you need permission to laugh because it's kind of, I said tragic

tragedy comedy. There's a lot of darkness going on around it. But it'd be lovely to see it with an audience. I thought it was a really moving film. I wonder if Killian Murphy is, obviously the world is different to the way it was in the 1970s. And we look at movies. stars, you know, movie stars have to work slightly harder, I think, to be as big as the Robert Redford's of this world. But Killian Murphy has that magnetism, doesn't he? He does. I mean, you were on stage with him, but with a bunch of other people, but he just has something about him which makes people go, oh, good heavens, it's Killian Murphy. Well, I don't know whether you saw, but on Instagram, there were some photographs taken of him at the BFI. They're black and

white photographs, and yet his eyes, his blue eyes, his amazing blue eyes, even in the black and white photographs seem uncannily blue. And he's got that, he's got a sort of stillness about him. You know, he's quiet, and that quietness makes you listen to what he's saying. And I just think he's one of the good guys. I think he's, I think very much like Redford, he believes in cinema's power to affect people. And he believes in, you know, that if you're going to, if you have the privilege of doing it, you should do good stuff. You should do stuff that you believe in. And I, you know, I think this is an example of that. We'll be back very shortly. Mark is going to be revealing these films. Well, coming up, we have the review of Big Bowl Beautiful Journey and also the lost bus

with our special guest. Who is Paul Greengrass, plus the UK and US box office top 10 in just a moment. Hey, take listeners. This is. is an advert from Better Help. Now, when it comes to wellness these days, don't you reckon it feels like there's advice for everything? Oh, you should do cold plunges. No, you should do gratitude journals. But how do you know what actually works specifically for you? You can almost get lost in these recommendations. It can feel like a struggle or even a stress. But talking to live therapists can get you personalized recommendations and help you break through the noise. With over 5,000 therapists in the UK, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform.

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and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash Kermode Mayo. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed is all you need. Okay, so box office top 10, disconcertingly starting at number 10, which is, that's not the way this happens, not the way it's supposed to work.

Anyway, at 10, caught stealing. Yes, I still haven't caught up with it. Forgive me, for the last week or so, I have been literally tarting my butt around with the book. So the things that came out that one week we were off, I haven't caught up with. I apologize. Weapons is at number nine. Which, of course, I have seen, like very much, really, really glad it's still in the

show. This is it's sixth week in the top ten, so it's done well. Six weeks also for Freakier Friday, which is at number eight here, number nine in the States. So much better than I expected. And as I said, I, you know, I laughed. And then at the end, I suddenly found myself being unexpectedly moved to tears. And what more could you want, particularly from a late in the day sequel? Got a visual joke here. Number seven in the UK, number 13 in the state, spinal tap two, the end continues. That's my visual joke, Mark.

Oh, very good. Wow, you've got a spinal tap land yard. I've got a land yard, and it says on it, VIP, access, no areas. Break like the Wind, 1992 World Tour. Wow, that was a good tour. That was a good tour. That was back from Radio One Days. Anyway, so for various reasons, despite your less than enthusiastic review, I laughed all the way through.

Okay. We had such a good time. Plus 84 minutes. Thank you. Good night. Off you go. That's when you know your story has run its course. Off you go.

I just thought that, you know, there are a few misses, obviously. But we just had a great time. Well, look, I'm really delighted. I mean, I wasn't. I was very careful to say it could have been so much worse and I chuckled through it and I laughed out loud twice

it was nothing like as bad as it might have been it just wasn't as good as I wanted it to be let me ask you two things what did you think of the Chris Addison role it was very very Chris Addison and very snaky and sharky combination of a snake and a shark

I thought he was funny Okay. And what about the celebrities? Again, McCartney, fantastic. I thought Elton got away with it as well. So I thought it all made sense. It was all a lot of fun and at the risk of spoiling the best joke in the movie. At the end, when one of them says, yeah, I'm working on a memoir like Bruce. And, you know, when he wrote that book, I am Springsteen going on Spreventine.

that was one of my two laugh out loud jokes that was one of my two laugh out loud moments look I'm really thrilled I'm really glad you like it because I don't dislike it I wasn't I mean I didn't I wasn't negative but it I was disappointed um Vic Jay says I love this new film I've seen the first one probably 50 times I think the guys did a great job on this project really loved it Edward Box says I laughed a lot seven out of ten but I agree with all the reservations but I love the tap and it's great to spend more time. So do I. So do I. Spinal tap two is at number seven. The end continues. Number six, number 10 in Canada, the bad guys two. Still hanging on in there in its eighth week. Still can't quite get it. But, you know, if you like the bad guys one,

it's like that. The Roses at number five. So came out when we were off, haven't caught up with it. Postal looks terrible. I hear tell from fellow critics that actually it's pretty good. number four here and in America the long walk this is from Paul McElroy dear first warning and second warning saw the long walk on Sunday and thought it was a finely acted and written film

I agree with a few of the comments on your YouTube review that say it felt like a close relation to they shoot horses don't they the other thing that occurred to me was it felt odd and maybe a bit old fashioned that we never cut to the television show that we were told was being broadcast

in a media-obsessed age, it's unusual to see it taking a backseat in the story. Thanks for all, and then he signs off, this is Paul McElroy, thanks for all the hard work you do, and the team whose diligence is matched only by their wit, handsomeness and dancing skills. For some reason, that's underlined. Anyway, it clearly worked for, because you got read out. That's the long walk at number four. Well, I mean, I thought the long walk was challenging, and going in at number four is actually

pretty good when you consider how grim the subject matter is based on a Stephen King book that he apparently wrote before Carrie, but it was published afterwards as a Richard Bachman thing, you know, dystopian future. The cover looks very much like references to Rollerball and that sort of thing. I mean, I liked the film. I did find it very, very dark and I thought that, I mean, when you consider, if you compare it to, for example, the Hunger Games franchise with which it shares a director, that thing about not cutting away to a television. It does make sense because it's telling a different story. I think the most important thing is that in the current state of Trump's America, this story that was written specifically in relation to the Vietnam War

does have horrible parallels. I mean, I think it does depict a really brutal world in which you know, people are being distracted from the actual horrors by this, this just obscene game. And I, when I was watching it, I did think it's, you know, you really can look at this and think all those things that King was thinking about during the horrors of Vietnam, they all make sense now. And I think that's a very, very dark time to be in. Number three, here, number two, in America is the conjuring the last rights. Again, without wishing to simply revisit this, if it was just a straightforward, uga-buga horror movie, that would be fine.

I just object having to sit there listening to, you know, two con artists being sanctified in such a po-faced manner. I don't mind, you know, fiction, I don't mind, you know, make the whole thing up, but don't then lecture me about how important it is that, you know, these two people who were, they weren't fighting evil. hand to hand. They were cooks. They were crazy people. That's it. Number two, but it's the American number one, Demon Slayer, Kimetsu No, Jaiba, Infinity Castle. Yes, I'm going to watch that tomorrow, and we will have a review of it on next week's show. Charlie says, dragged along by nephews and expected the excruciating worst, but I was genuinely impressed by the film. The character development was nuanced and compelling, drawing me into the emotional journey of each protagonist. Visually, the graphics were exceptional, rich, immersive, and

beautifully executed. The story resonated with me on a personal level, leaving a lasting impression. It's rare to encounter a film that blends technical excellence with such heartfelt storytelling. I will maybe even return for another viewing. Demon Slayer. Number two, number one is Downton Abbey, the grand finale. The end continues. Anne Barden on our YouTube channel. I thought this lived up, I thought this lived up to its legend. A good farewell to the characters. Downton is a nice watch. Upstairs, downstairs, it was its grittier grandma. And that last scene, Niagara Falls. George on YouTube, a beautiful film, very moving, funny. The Noel Coward Inclusion was inspired along with his music, just delightful, a beautiful afternoon spent

with my mum at the cinema. Lucy Campbell says 41 and four months, no special title, but I did have afternoon tea at High Clear Castle. Yes, it's sentimental and a total tea and cake film, but honestly, I didn't care. I was transported back to the 1930s with beautiful costumes, wonderful settings and some glorious put-downs. Penelope Wilton does a sterling job, trying to step into Maggie Smith's very large shoes and manages to make some wonderful one-liners, the whole cast get their moment in the spotlight, and it's a glorious fan service. I am not ashamed to admit that I shed a few tears in the final few minutes when Mary has her moment in the hall. No, spoilers. Is it going to break cinema? No, is it groundbreaking, and you absolutely not,

but will I sit through it again more than once when it comes to television? 100%. Downton Abbey, number one. And that is exactly it, you know, goes downtown Abbey well with a cup of tea and a bicky. When we were reviewing it last week, we're saying for the people who love Downton, this is spending more time in their company, exactly as with Spinal Tap. Even I, who was lukewarm about Spinal Tap, did say many times in my review, I just liked being with these guys again because I've spent so much of my life invested in it. And people who love Downton Abbey will just love being in their company again. I think as a piece of filmmaking, it's pretty ropey, But that doesn't matter.

The other thing is, because of the demographic that it's playing to, it is absolutely attracting an older audience. And when it comes to independent cinemas, who need to fill their screens during the week, this is the kind of thing that is a bankable, solid hit for them. So it is what it is, and that's fine. Correspondence atcombeamara.com, Paul Greengrass is coming next.

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Starbucks, it's never just coffee. Well, this week's guest is the wonderful Paul Greengrass, BAFTA winner, Oscar nominee, fellow of the BFI, and all-round good chap, apart from his football. Just remind us who he supports, us, who he supports? Well, that kind of varies. You know, sometimes it's Chelsea.

Is it Fulham at times? You know, he's one of those guys. He kind of floats around. Anything to annoy Tottenham. Basically, he's just not Tottenham. He's just not. He's... You're Tottenham and he's Nottenham.

Forest. Yeah. We spoke about the Lost Bus, which is his new film for Apple TV. Here's a little clip. Based to all drivers, this is an update on that Evac notice. We have a situation. A Conderosa Element. I repeat, there's a circulation developing at Ponder Rosa Elementary.

There are 23 kids who are stranded in the evacuation zone. Their parents cannot make it and to pick them up. They need to be picked up and taken to the alternative collection point at Paradise Elementary. Is there anybody empty and in the area of East Paradise? Is there anybody in East Paradise with an empty bus that can go and pick these kids up? 963 to base I can get up

As a clip from The Lost Bus I'm delighted to say that its director Paul Greengrass is back on the show Hello Paul, how are you? I'm very well, sir, how are you? Yeah, it's one of the delights of doing this show in its various incarnations that every so often there's a Paul Greengrass film

and we get to talk to you about it because when your name is attached to a project, I think people go, I'm in. I'm hooked up. This is going to be a compelling, couple of hours of movie magic. Well, I mean, that's very kind. That's what I go for.

That's what I try for. So, introduce us to The Lost Buzz. Take us to California and how you got to tell this story. Well, it's the story of the fire that ripped through the small community of paradise in Northern California, five or six years ago. And it was the deadliest wildfire in California history, I think, in American history. And it's a sort of story about times, really. you know, I mean, wherever you look, it feels like the world's burning, doesn't it?

All across Europe, South America, North America, the Far East have had bad fires. Yeah, it's part of the world we're living in. Jason Blum and Jamie, Jamie, Jamie Kennedy Curtis, asked me if I was interested, to be honest. When you look back, it's amazing how much time you waste considering films that you end up not making. They're always the ones that you agonise. Oh, shall I, or maybe, and then baby bad because I can do it this way, and maybe, you know, and then you waste any. and in the end you go, no, how do I do it? Not always, but pretty much the ones that you actually end up making,

the ones you go, oh yeah, definitely, I know what to do with that. And it was a bit like that with this. I mean, as soon as they said, okay, it's paradise, it's the wildfire, you know, which I remembered, and it's the story of the school bus and the school bus driver and the teacher. It's a little bit like Captain Phillips. It's a story in the real world, obviously, and I've done a few of those. But there's something about the shape of the story and the compression of the story. where there's something of a movie in its structure,

I could put it that way. And so, you know, maybe think immediately of stagecoach and, you know, the direct John Ford movie and, you know, the character's in a compressed space a little bit like in 1993 and Captain Phillips. So I sort of thought, let's do it. You know, I mean, I was in, I was in immediately. Ron Howard came on the show

and talked about his documentary called Rebuilding Paradise about the fires there and what happened in the community. and I think it's still on National Geographic, actually. Really, really wonderful documentary. It is. And as I remember, I haven't gone back and watched it, but his documentary kind of finishes where yours starts with the dilapidated state of the electrical system.

It's all sorted, and Pacific Gas and Electric Company admitted liability as your film shows at the end. But your film starts with the pylons and the cables snapping and starting the fire. And I thought that was very interesting because there's no doubt where the blame is for this story? I would say two things. I would say it's two things, not one. It's the interaction of dilapidated infrastructure and climate.

Where do I start the movie? A big, big sun, you know, a parched earth. No rain for whatever it was the longest, longest time that summer. And then that night, those unbelievable winds. So it's the two things together that create the conditions for what happened. Yeah. So the book, the starting point, as I understand, is it's called Paradise One Town Struggle to Survive an American Wildfire by Lizzie Johnson, which Jamie Lee Curtis had read a clip from and then heard an interview with Lizzie Johnson, which is the mechanics.

But I would imagine, and certainly anyone who saw that Ron Howard documentary will know, there are a bunch of stories that came out of this fire. Was this clearly the one that you wanted to tell? It was, yeah. I read Lizzie's book after I'd said yes, actually. I mean, I said yes literally in the first conversation because I thought it was such a great idea and I kind of could see it in my mind straight away or, you know, what it could be.

And Brad and I did the screenplay. He'd actually done the first draft and he had taken the book and decided that that was the story to tell and he was quite right about that. This is Brad Inglesby. Yeah. And that was absolutely the right decision

to make it about the bus and the teacher and the bus driver. And we started with that and then worked it to what it became. You know, that it became, you know, I wanted to incorporate it to be about the firefighting side of it because I think that makes it very contemporary and also gave it drive.

And, you know, it has that kind of, as I say, classical structure really. Yes. The challenge was how to make it. That was really the big challenge. How do you make a film where you've got 22, 23 small children? You know, you've got a bus. You've got fire.

You're trying to create fire in a, an environment. We didn't actually shoot it in California. We decided not to, so we shot it in Santa Fe, which is almost identical countryside. A small town called Rio Doso, which is in upstate New Mexico, which is uncannily the same as Paradise. First of all, you had that challenge to solve. You know, Paradise is a particular place. It's not wealthy Southern California. They're talking about rural Northern California. It's decidedly blue collar. You know, It's a slice of America. You know, it's a community like Ohio or Pennsylvania that was left behind by wealthy affluent Southern California.

And that was part of the bitterness, of course, after these events. So our bus driver, Kevin McKay's play by Matthew McConaughey, the teacher is America Ferreira, both fantastic performances, as we would expect, Matthew McConaughey, such an extraordinary actor. But can you tell us what you asked them to do and how you got them to act the way you did? what is it that is actually burning and when they're driving through it, what have you asked them to do? I actually went one way of making this film and then did a complete reverse and went in a completely different direction. My initial feeling was to do it entirely virtually. I went to the sphere, you know, in Las Vegas, saw the U-2 show, which is a quite extraordinary show. I don't know if you see it, been in the sphere. I have not, but I know a lot of people who have here.

When those, you know, you got that wraparound screen and suddenly you're transported into the desert of Las Vegas, you believe you're there. I mean, you think you're standing in the desert. It's quite uncanny. And I was very struck for that. And I thought, well, okay, that's the way to make it. And we actually did quite a lot of feasibility studies. Could we create a screen around the bus that could travel? So we had the same thing and everybody would be interactive and all the rest of it. And then after a little while, I thought, first of all, I don't think we're ever in a film world cinematically going to

believe it, it's going to feel somewhere not real. And secondly, I didn't feel it was giving the actors, including

the children, who were also acting brilliantly I think, a real environment. So then we went in a totally different way,

which they have a real bus and found this, basically it was an abandoned arts college in near Santa Fe, which is a huge lot.

I mean, like three or four times the size of pinewood. And it had roads and everything. And basically it was just

one big huge playground. So then we were able to drive the bus for real and lay gas lines so you could have flame but not burn things. You know, obviously you couldn't burn combustible material for the risk that you would create a fire. But you could have gas burners because obviously that's a very controllable flame

and it's not going to send particles into the sky that could then ignite. So we were able to design, provide the actors with the real experience of dream. driving through real world experiences, if I can put it that way, with real fire elements. And that then became the bedrock of how we made the film. And the other decision we made was that one of the phenomena of wildfire is that the light changes very quickly and becomes like a sort of occluded, deep eclipse light.

It's very, very strange. And the only way that you could really get anything near that was at Magic Hour. Well, they call Magic Hour, which is that sort of half hour, 45 minutes, is just as you're losing the light, which has that sort of mysterious quality. It's sort of light, but it's also dark at the same time. But it only lasts, you know, they call it Magic Hour, really. It's Magic 10 Minutes with a bunch of my friend, you know. What I decided was, and this was really coming to the actors,

Because I wanted them then to be in a real world, it then became, well, look, why don't we try and create an experience that has the intensity of reality in terms of the pressure, as opposed to breaking it down shot by shot. And shoot it at Magic Hour. Let's call it Magic One Hour. And let's say we get one shot early in the hour that's a bit light, one shot that's exactly right, one that's a little bit dark. But we'll basically rehearse for five or six hours, all the blocking, all the vehicles. There are tremendous numbers of vehicles and safety issues to do with vehicles, all the gas lines. You know, so you basically spend hours and hours and hours rehearsing the complex set pieces and what you're doing in the bus. And then we'll break it down and we'll shoot 20 minute takes that cover a lot of ground in the script, but we'll only do it three times and that's it. and you get a mixture of the intensity that you're only there once

and you've got to get it right but also the feeling of being in a real world and that's how we did it most not all the movie because obviously there's a chunk of it in daylight at the beginning that we shot in Rio Dosa but a lot of the fire elements the travelling through fire were done at Magic Hour in those incredibly intense conditions and it made it I mean that's where all of them I mean Matthew and America and the kids they all bought into it and it made it intense and exhilarating and I think it gave it the flavour that it has, I think. Anyone who knows your work, Paul, knows that, for example, on United 93, you famously used the real air traffic controllers who were involved on the day at 9-11. And my instinct when I was watching the film is that your instinct would be, let's use real firefighters.

Yeah, we did. They were all, not all. There were a couple of actors in there, obviously, Yule and, you know, who played the fire chief. the rest of them are written in that group were all firefighters who fought in paradise on the day who fought in paradise some from Santa Fe but but the but the inner core were all the team who fought in paradise a day including a man called john messina who played yule's number two in the film who actually led the operation to save paradise on the day i've got a writing question because when you watch him running the show trying to work out how to fight this fire with

Scores, maybe hundreds of people all running around, how do you write chaos? Well, that's a good question. The way you do it is you have to understand how chaos unfolds, because chaos unfolds actually through a series of tripwires, and it's always some version of a macabre series of cause and effects. So the fire will break out, and there will be a procedure that happens to fight it, you know, a series of alerts go out and the fire response is triggered. And then as the fire spreads in one direction or another, the fire response has to respond

to that. And then when they realize the speed of it, they respond to that and you'll move it. So you've got to try to deeply understand what those cause and effects moments are, write them down and then get your character, your central character, which is obviously the character you're really following on that side of the story, you're really taking him in this case, him on a journey through supreme professionalism from here's how we fight a fire to what happens when you fight a fire on the day when it wins. And that's obviously an emotional journey as much as a procedural journey, but it's both wrapped in one. So if you keep that in mind too, and then you chart those way stations, try and define really, really carefully

in your mind what they are probably six to eight moments that you're building to you write those down and then once you've got that clear and you try and write a screenplay that describes that so when you read it you get a feel for that but then you bring your actors in and you're meeting actors with real world professionals it's in that mixture where if you're lucky the actors stop acting but teach the real world people how to act and the real world people teach the actors how to be real world people and you get this sort of mixture which feels authentic it just has that smack of it and if you can marry that with the dramatic journey you know that yule and kate brought to life you know you make it work

that's that's how i do it anyway before we run out of time i do just want to mention that whoever was responsible for the sound design because fire is terrifying when you see it and when you feel it but it's also terrifying when you hear it. And if you can see this in the cinema, then do it's going to be on Apple, obviously, but if you can see it with a decent sound system, whoever it was who was in charge of that. Oliver Tarnie and Billy Goldberg, the great editor,

and James, Newton Howard, of course, because the score marries into that because I wanted to personify the fire in this film. And part of that was to create the POV of the fire, a bit like in Jaws, you know, you have the POV of the shark, but also that it had its, distinctive sound because what you get survivors of fire, I mean, in Liz's book, they say,

they always talk about this unbelievable sound that massive wildfires letting rip make. And it's a kind of, it's just the sound from hell. And it's the sound of our world today, sadly. Paul, it's always fantastic to talk to you. I know you're about to go off and do the rage. I've been told to stop, but in a couple of sentences. Well, it's pretty close to the lost bus. No, it's the story, it's set against the backdrop of the Peasant's Revolt.

So it's England in 1381 and it's the story of an uprising amongst rural workers, farmers and so enraged were they by the way the world was, a system that was rigged against them, that they marched on London, smashed into London and three days of mayhem ensued. So it doesn't sound like today at all, does it? And it all ended happily ever after, of course, of course, of course. Paul, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for talking to us. I'll be so. See you later, mate. Bye.

Paul Greengrass, who looks increasingly impressive, I think, as he gets older. His hair is now all white, but he's just huge hair. Looks fantastic. And you know, I meant that, you know, we said at the beginning of the cover. If you go to see a Paul Greengrass film, your expectation is very high because you know that he knows how to make these films. And also, as you were saying, that interview and I want to see it in the cinema. So this is, it's in cinemas now, it's going

to be on Apple TV in October 3rd, which is obviously quite soon. But as you were just saying, if you get the chance to see it in the cinema, it really benefits from it. So at the risk of repeating some of what you just said, so this is a dramatization of a true story of the 2018 fire that ripped through Paradise in rural Northern California. It's based on a book by Lizzie Johnson, which I haven't read. The script is co-written by Paul Greengrass and Brad Inglesby. And Essentially, at the center of it is this bus driver played by Matthew McConaughey. The film opens with this image of a burning sun, parched land, wind ripping through it, and then the power lines creaking.

So the kind of set up, as Paul Greengrass said in that interview, it is all there in the opening. We meet Kevin, played by Matthew McConaughey, struggling to hold his life together. He's living with his mom. He's separated from his wife. He's arguing with his son. he works as a school bus driver he's late often he doesn't get his paperwork in on time he needs extra shifts on the day of the fire his son is sick he's behind schedule the bus has to be taken him for a service he needs to get medicine and then get back and get it to his son but he gets a call

to pick up a bunch of kids and take them from where they are to another place away from the fire and because he's running late he happens to be the only driver who is in the area so he says Okay, I can do it. And there's a line when his controller says something like, if you can deliver these kids, you will have done well. And something, it's okay, fine, you know, I will have done a good thing. So he thinks he can do it and then take the medicine to his son. But the fire is advancing much faster than anybody can imagine, and everything is starting to burn. In that interview, Paul Greengrass said, this is a story of our times. wherever you look, it feels like the world is burning.

So he and this teacher, played by America Frera, are left with a busload of kids in the middle of somewhere in which everything is turning to flames, everything is gridlocked, and there is less and less chance of getting out with every minute. Paul Greengross compared it to Captain Phillips in your interview. He said, there's something of a movie in its structure. He also referred to it as a classical structure.

What he meant was that the true story, had something of a classical structure when you tell it. And it was interesting. He said, I immediately thought stagecoach, and he also mentioned characters in a compressed space like United 93. When I see that, I think of the disaster movies of the 1970s, which would often have that similar classical structure, obviously fictional works, things like, you know, Taring Inferno, in which it's a group of people, they're in a situation which suddenly becomes

incredibly dangerous, and it's like a race for survival. I was also thinking in the later stages of the film of wages of fear, you know, the thriller movie about driving this, these truckloads of nitroglycerine through terrifying terrain because there are sequences later on when they're having to get the bus through really, really narrow roads and, you know, precipitous edges. And I really did start thinking of wages of fear. It's fascinating that he used old physical disaster movie techniques, you know, the gas lines. with the flames in order to make it real. And he also talked about shooting at Magic Hour. Shooting at Magic Hour is one of the things that made Heaven's Gate the most expensive movie of its time that crashed the studio. And the fact that Paul Greengrass figured out the logistics of how you'll do this, which is that you will rehearse the shot all the time during the day,

and then you've got 45 minutes in which you can shoot underneath the darkening skies in that Magic Hour. that has destroyed other filmmakers. But Paul Greengross, as in that brilliant description that he did, when you asked him that really great question, how do you go about orchestrating and showing chaos? And his answer was so organised, the organisation behind the depiction of chaos.

I mean, it sounds like a really mad thing to shoot in that way, but it pays real dividends. as with all of Greengrass's films, the thing has the grit of real life. The fact that there are people who were actually firefighters, who knew that particular circumstance, that always adds. But the most interesting thing from your interview was when Greengrass talked about personifying the fire, seeing the fire's point of view.

And he compared it to the shark in jaws. And again, this is why he's the great filmmaker that he is, because that's such a smart thing. what does it look like from the point of view of the rushing fire and the noise that it makes and the way in which the soundtrack is indeed enmeshed with the musical score to give you that sense of this kind of monstrous roaring beast that is, you know, tearing across the landscape. So I went in thinking, you know, I've seen a documentary about this and the story is absolutely horrifying. I mean, it is a really, really terrifying story.

There is, of course, famously the piece of film of idiot Trump turning up afterwards and referring to Paradise as pleasure, because in his brain, that's what Paradise is. But this is a story of kind of heroism in the face of extreme danger by somebody, because we're kind of given the hint that they are told, if you do this, it would be a good thing. I spent a good 45 minutes of it absolutely gripping the edge of my seat. I mean, I know what the outcome is because I happened to, you know, I knew the story because we'd seen documentaries and we knew about it. But I found when the bus is lost, when the bus is in this landscape that's almost otherworldly and is surrounded by fire and the kids on the bus are becoming increasingly terrified and the world is literally burning, I thought it was really good.

gripping. Interestingly, I didn't think it was exploitative. And I think the same was true of United 93. I think the same was true with Captain Phillips, with which it does share some structural elements. And I think McConaughey's performance is terrific. And actually, I think all the performances are terrific. I think America Ferrer is terrific. But the star of the film is Paul Greengross, because there is nobody who does this sort of thing like him. And yes, there are certain things like, you know, the way in which it kind of looks a bit news footagey, but that's not what's going on here. It has that classic aesthetic idea. It borrows from, as I said, things like 70s disaster movies, which work because they have their roots in dramatic theatre. And it

tells a story without feeling like it's overselling it. And you sit there with your heart in your throat, thinking, please, please, please get out of this terrible situation. I also think it's a, the film is a celebration of basic decency. Once again, it's a film about ordinary people. He talks about this being, you know, this isn't posh, California. This is rural, northern California, ordinary people being extraordinary under, you know, terrifying circumstances. I liked it very much. You were a fan, right? Yeah, I thought, I thought it was, uh, Jordanese worth, I mean, if you have time on your side, try and find the documentary that Ron Howard did, which he talked about on a previous incarnation of this show, because

it is, as Paul Gregoor said, it's a fantastic film. And it gives you the background to what happened, why it happened, the real communities. And there's, I mean, in a way, the Ron Howard film is more terrifying than the Lost Bus, because when you see the footage filmed by the people of paradise as they try to drive out on the roads which are completely consumed with the fire. You think, no, no, well, this is, this is real. Are they going to make it? Yeah. So if you can find that, it was for National Geographic. Maybe that's still up there. Rebuilding paradise. It's called Rebuilding paradise. But so just a couple of things, which I didn't get to mention in the, in the interview. Matthew McConaughey's son is played by his son. So Levi McConaughey is his son.

So when he's shouting at his dad, I hate you. That must have been slightly. And his mother is played by his mother, Kay. So it's a little bit of a family business. And because we were talking about Robert Redford, at the start of the pod, you know that famous bit in Butch and Sundance right towards the end, written by William Goldman, of course, that famous sequence just about before they sort of rush out to meet the entire Mexican army. They have a kind of surreal conversation about going to Australia. And they kind of both know what's about to happen. So they talk about other things. And there is a moment in the lost bus when Matthew McConaughey and America for a kind, they're on the bus and they're in like the calm of the storm. They're right

in the heart. Yes. Yes. The thing to do is to stay put. That's, that's, that's, and they have this conversation. And it just, it felt like that sort of, that sort of conversation that sort of William Goldman got in Bush and Sundance. That's, that's this moment. We have maybe five minutes. Let's talk about other stuff. Yeah. And it, and it works really. well. It also ties up very nicely with a tag at the end of the film about what subsequently happened. Incidentally, it is worth restating that as Paul Greengrass says at the beginning, he sets up the elements, the sun, the parched land, the power cables. And at the end, there is that briefing explaining exactly where the legal liability ended up falling. And that is also

terrifying. Do go and see it. We would love to know what you think, correspondence at cavernamare.com. And you know what we need after the apocalyptic scenes of a greengrass movie. What we need is a good laugh, Mark. Unfortunately, you're not going to get it. No, that's precisely the wrong time for it. But we'll play the music and see what happens. Well, now, Mark, it's very good to see you. With the start of the new term recently, I couldn't help but recall my own school days.

One particularly embarrassing memory from one December involves Miss Fotheringay, the biology teacher. It was, I was in a world of my own in one particular lesson, you know, hello trees, hello sky, that kind of thing. When she said, Simon Mayo, you must have studied the homework material on cell division, which was set over the weekend. Use mitosis in a sentence. Thinking on my feet, I said, okay, miss, I walked here barefoot through the snow and mitosis cold. Yeah, the thing is, I could see that joke coming from the minute you said mitosis. Okay. But, you know, hey, that's what it is.

Also, slight... Okay, pause, new sentence. I love tennis, Mark, as you know. Not a lot of flow going on here. She's so hokey. I love, love, love tennis. Did you catch the US Open finals? No.

Did you see that? No. It's Al-Qaraz and Sinner. That was fantastic. Truly the Borg Macon-Row of our Times, Al-Koraz defeating Sinner in a four-set victory to regain the US Open title, winning 83% of his first serves.

Wonderful stuff. and then the imperious arena Savalenko defeating Amanda Anissimova in straight sets in the women's final. One morning the good lady ceramicist, her indoors, said, I have 14 reasons to leave you, Simon Mayo, including your ridiculous obsession with tennis. I said, well now, that's 15, love. At least she stopped hitting me with a stringed musical instrument of treble pitch, played with a horsehair bow and developed in the 16th century. She has a history of violence.

Again, I could see it coming. It's like... Yes. Yes. What a tur de force. Yes. Can I say that mitosis joke? It's just a variation on what are hippies for? There to hang your legies on. Well, I know you're sort of splitting your sides already,

but we're just going to take a break. And then we'll be back with Mark talking about big, bold, beautiful journey after this. Did you lock the front door? Check. Close the garage door? Yep. Installed window sensors, smoke sensors, and HD cameras with night vision?

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What else is out then? Big, bold, beautiful journey, which unfortunately is a title, which immediately, you know, you think, oh, please, just the use of those words. Anyway, this is the latest film by Koganada, Park Jung-un, who's a South Korean-born American director,

known for stylish, visual and aesthetic sense. Started out as a video. Video essayist made a splash with Columbus, which was an indie feature, then made after Yang. I don't know whether you remember this, but I reviewed after Yang. It's a sort of elusive, sort of science fiction film about a family who have a robotic son that then starts to disconnect. And it's a very strange melancholy film, Echoes of AI, lovely scored by Ascomatsumea. Colin Farrell was in that film. He's back again now, here starring alongside Margot Robbie, in what is far in a way.

Koganada's biggest and most star-studded and, you know, mainstream production, although mainstream in a strange way. So this is a romantic fantasy with shades of eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, a poster that very deliberately evokes the umbrellas of Scherborg, which is a musical that was always celebrated for having a gritty sense of realism, you know, feet on the floor, head in the clowns. Script by Seth Weiss was on the blacklist in 2020. The Blacklist is this list of the best unproduced scripts.

It's become quite a big deal now. If you have a script that hasn't been made, if it makes it onto the blacklist, the chances are people will get to see it. So what happens is that Colin Farrell is David and Margot Robbie is Sarah. They meet at a wedding. They are both single. They are both somewhat emotionally marooned. It turns out that they've both also rented cars from the car rental agency, which is a weird agency that looks more like a kind of drama audition workspace in a huge great hangar, manned by

Phoebe Wallerbridge sporting a shonky German accent that she jumps out of sometimes, and Kevin Klein, who I didn't recognize as being Kevin Klein until the very end of the movie when I went, oh, that's Kevin Klein. The car rental agency only has two cars. Both of them are old. David and Sarah have a sort of borderline, flirty conversation at the wedding. in which she tells him that they can't get close because she'll hurt him, which is what she does, and he tells her that he's never met the right person, and he doesn't dance.

So that's what he does. So next morning, they go their separate ways. But as they're driving away from the wedding, the sat nav in David's car, which Phoebe Wallerbridge insisted that he take, said, you must have the satnav, and she literally says it, you must have the satanab in that funny accent,

starts to talk to him. And it says to him, do you want to go on a big, bold, beautiful journey? And he says, what? He says, do you want to go on a big, bold, beautiful journey? And he's obviously lost, and he says yes. And he's sat there says, okay, say it with me. I want to go on a big, bold, beautiful journey.

And the first thing it tells him to do is to pull off the road, pull into a fast food joint, order a cheeseburger, which he does. And whilst he's there, he sees Sarah also eating a cheeseburger. And they strike up a conversation. Here's a clip. So? So. So.

So we live in the same city? Correct. Yeah. Are you gonna ask me out or something? Would you like to be asked out? I guess you'll never know now. Oh God. Pain of early regret.

Also known as dating. So we're not going to date? Couldn't be worth the risk. Pessence. I'm glad we got that out of the way. Yeah, thank God. Want it on your ring? Please.

delicious. This is the only ring I'll be getting from you. Good joke, though. The only ring will be getting is the onion ring. Incidentally, I said Seth Weiss wrote it. Seth Rice, my mistake. So, basically, it is clear that she has been directed there by her own sat-nav as well,

and her car stops working, so they both have to get into the same car and go together on this big, bold, beautiful journey. And the journey leads them to a series of locations with a series of doors. in the middle of nowhere, incidentally, like a door in the middle of a field

or a door in the middle of an open parking lot. And when they go through the doors, the doors take them into their various pasts to moments that created them, to moments that led them to be the people that they are,

to her to be somebody who will inevitably hurt somebody, to him to be somebody who can't find the right person. And the places that they go to include homes, schools, hospitals, art galleries, and even an amateur,

dramatic musical production. There are references to musicals everywhere. As I said before, there was that Umbrells of Sherborg thing. There's singing in the rain posters on the walls. There is, in fact, a high school musical at one point, and the set pieces keep threatening to turn into dance. If you watch the movie and you enjoy the movie,

do stay to the very end because there's a very long payoff to the I Don't Dance gag, which plays out over the final credits. So, look, as the title suggests, it's big, it's bold, it has moments of beauty, and it has oodles of ambitions. It also has a lovely score by Joe Hiseishi, of course, you know, his work I love and did such great work with, you know, Ghibli. However, it doesn't work. And unlike Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind or Woody Allen's midnight in Paris, the fantasy elements never quite click. The sense of naturalism of unquestioned magic just isn't there.

I mean, you watch it and you keep wanting to go, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. hang on. Why aren't they going, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, what's going on? I mean, the effect is weirdly like watching a musical in which you never get used to the fact that they break into song. Now, I know some people don't like musicals. And one of the reasons they don't like musicals is because they don't like the fact that people break into song. But all the best musicals, to which this does owe a great debt, when characters break into song, you just accept it as a natural heightening of the real world. Because you think, think that's the space that the film is playing out in. In the case of this, that never

happens. And it's weird that it doesn't because there are some interesting devices, like when they go into the past, when they go back to high school, for example, we see them as they still are, as grown-ups, but everyone else sees them as younger people. Um, okay, you think, okay, that's a good device. And I kept thinking, the film looks great, I like the actors, I like the idea of the Fantasia, but it doesn't work. And why doesn't it work? And I think it's that in order for a fantasy like this to work, you have to just accept the conceit and the film has to make you accept the conceit. And this never did. Now, it doesn't help that the past lives revelations, the moments that they go back to, are quite trite and quite cliched. So there's a lot

of stuff about, you know, I didn't make right with my parents or I had a hard time in high school or I had my heart broken at a certain point in my life and I never got over it. But again, even with that, if you think of a film like Peggy Sue got married, that does this in a way that didn't have me wondering all the time, why, you know, how has she gone back to the past? I mean, there's an explanation, but it's not really an explanation. So, look, I didn't dislike it, but I didn't love it and I suspect that some people will absolutely hate it.

The main takeaway from it is I like Koganada as a director. I like both of these actors. I think Colin Farrell and Margarobi are both very fine actors. And I like the ambition of it.

It just didn't work. And in that I tried to imagine a circumstance in which I was watching a musical, and every time they started singing, I was Nigel Floyd going, sorry, why are they singing? Because that's how I felt all the way through Big Bold Beautiful Journey. Is it A big, or is it just big? A big, bold, beautiful journey. A big. A big. It

doesn't make any difference. Doesn't make it better. Doesn't make it better. No. Now we're going to talk about shameless plugs, which is not. Excellent. surprisingly a book that Mark has got out or a paperback book from me which he'll be on the way at some stage. This is where you send us video clips because we're now fully realized in Technicolor VistaVision.

So we're talking screenings, we're talking festivals, other movie-related events as we're fully visualised, so you should be. So, for example, here is Eric. Ahoy, Simon and Mark. It's Eric with Sailors

are gay, a queer film season at the Rio Cinema here in London. We are running from the 22nd of September to the 2nd of October and will be a voyage of gay sailor films from the queer coded with On the Town to the Overt with Fastbender's brilliant Karel. Tickets are on sell at riocinema.org.uk. Hope to see you aboard. So you get the idea. So you can be an audio thing if you want. But do it visualise. Film yourself. Rehears it. You know, get wonderful production values. Get Paul Greengrass to do it for you and that'll be fine. Anyway, that is the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. Producer was Gem. Redactor was Pooley McPoolface. And if you're, who today is dressed as

Robert Redford as a 19, early 1970s Washington Post reporter. He is. He's very excited. about that. Anyway, if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast. Mark, what is your film of the week? Well, it's a very strong week, but I think my film of the week, because I really do want people to see it in cinemas is the lost bus. Thank you very much, Lee, for listening. Take two has already landed and is adjacent to this podcast. Thank you very much indeed for listening. We'll be with you very shortly.