Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Sally Hawkins, The Bear, Amsterdam, Vengeance and The Lost King

Episode Date: October 7, 2022

This week Simon speaks to one of Britian’s finest acting talents Sally Hawkins about her new film ‘The Lost King.’ Mark reviews the culinary smash hit series 'The Bear,’ David O. Russell’s new star-studded drama ‘Amsterdam’, ‘Vengeance’ - starring Ashton Kutcher and B. J. Novak about a podcaster who travels to Texas to investigate the death of woman he briefly dated and ‘The Lost King’- written by Steve Coogan and Jeff Pope, based on the discovery of King Richard III’s remains beneath a Leicester car park. Plus your correspondence, The World Cup Final of horror films draw, What’s On and the Box Office 10. You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media: @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Somethin’ Else & Sony Music Entertainment production.   Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts   To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Sunfibas Sunfibas Sunfibas Mark, Simon. Do you actually think that where do you go to my lovely by Peter Sastard? Ah, ha. Number one from 1969 is actually the worst song ever written. I asked because I played it yesterday on drive time. So it's really the panel. And I always, I remember listening to it as a kid, not understanding anything about what he was talking about. But you must have understood the father laugh. Ah, ah, ah.

And also he says, you laugh like, instead of saying Marlene a D trick, which is how everyone says it, he says, you laugh like Marlene a Dylatric. I think who is that? Who is this person? And it's that I read that John Peel described. My electric is great. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you'd say.

John Peel said it was the worst song of all time. Yes, I don't think that's excessive. It's a bit strong. But yeah, but this started because you said you played Chewie army. Yes, and I was an electric. Yes, which I incorrectly thought was Gary Neumann. But Gary Neumann saw the by the time he did cars. But you said,. Yes, which I incorrectly thought was Gary Neumann. He was Gary Neumann's father by the time he did cars, but you said, quite rightly, way army. That

John Peel played to well me until other people played them. And then he stopped me to play them every day. But I said he thinks my work is done. Exactly. I move on to something and put him onto the thing. His Peter Saster has been under discussed in general. What else did he do? Well, not that much. He did, I'll buy you one more frozen orange juice. Don't remember that? No, right, I mean, there they go.

I'll buy you one more frozen orange juice on this fantastic day. Anyway, here's my favorite fact about him. He was born in New Delhi in 1941. His ancestor, Christian Ludwig Wilhelm Sasterastid was born in 1841 in Hanover. Now that is a name. Wow. Hi, I'm Christian Ludwig Wilhelm Sastid. I thought that was incredible.

Well, I thought that was an interesting thing. Can I tell you an interesting thing? I'll tell you an interesting fact about a Mosquito. I'll keep it short. When I was a kid. How are you defining short, by the way? Shorter. When I was a kid, I used to go and see bands play in a pub, which I think was called the Duke of Lancaster in New Barnet.

And one of the bands that played there was a band led by John Grimoldy, and it was called John Grimoldy's cheap flights and they were really really good and I was Young too young, I think to be in the pub But used to go along and see them play and they were great and just the other the other week I was having this conversation with a good lady Fresher indoors. I said You know, I I've still got that cheap flight single. I'm sorry, which is what the single is called I wonder what happened well I looked it up and John Grimoldy is very sadly no longer with us. But I found an extraordinary thing. I saw cheap flights with John Grimoldy

when on keyboards they were joined by Pete Arnison. Now this is important because Pete Arnison was the original keyboard player in the Roubette and I didn't know. So I actually saw the keyboard player from the Rebet to the one who wasn't Bill Hurd, the other one on stage in the Duke of Lancaster or the Duke of the, whichever it was called in New Barnet. Incredible. Playing with John Grimoldy's cheap flights. My mind was so blown, it took several hours to put back together. Who knew there were so many facts about the Rebet that were out there still to be discovered? Here's a live show update, by the way,

because as you know, Halloween, it's coming very, very soon, Mark. It is. When is Halloween this year? It's the 31st of October, which is the same every year. We're doing a spooktacular at the Indigo at the O2 in London on actual Halloween. October 31st. Indeed.

And as well as tip top bands and reviews and film slash Elite Telechat, we're going to be doing the World Cup final of horror films. We did the draw for the first round last week. Those ties have now been played, Mark. We'll have the draw for the round of 16 in just a moment. OK. Am I going to be happy?

I have no idea. OK, it's very, as you remember, you haven't been happy since Nick's Resonance. It's just not up for two. Thank you. Well, it was a standard thing. Mark, you haven't been happy. There is just time to hear, once again, Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. It's at the end of go at the O2 in London Halloween night itself. We're going to have some very special guest Mark We'll be announcing the least scary horror film of all time. It's your looking for too. So if you have a thought on that one please email correspondence at kerbinomeo.com for your tickets However you go to kerbinomeo.com you won't want to miss out. Someone asked me this week Oh, you're doing fancy dress and I to choose about to say definitely not because no one does fancy dress Then I thought well maybe, maybe we are.

Cosplay. Maybe we're doing, are we doing cosplay? Could do. I don't know if we're going to, I could go as far as the merit, it'd be very easy. I mean, I'm dressed as far as the merit most of the time. Anyway, correspondents to Kermano.com, that's where you get in touch, but also if you want to buy your tickets, Kermode and Mayo.com. Thank you very much.

We will see you there. What is coming up on the show today? I'm going to be reviewing Amsterdam. We spoke to Christian Bayot. We used to speak to Christian Bayot last week. Vengeance, the Lost King, with our special guest. Yes, it's Enra Haar Poppy, because I'm going to be interviewing the one and only Sally Hawkins, who stars in the Lost King, which is out next week. And as if that wasn't enough. On Monday, for the Vanguard, more Sally Hawkins, also going deeper into the world of film and film adjacent television, hello, with another extra take in which you get two bonus reviews. This week bonus reviews are nothing compares and the reissue of Bram Stoker's Dracqu. We'll also be expanding your viewing in our feature one frame back inspired by the Lost King.

We've been asking you for your films which feature great scenes in car parks or parking garages. It's not really a genre on its own. If you're looking to rent a VHS at Blockbuster, you won't find a section which goes parking garage movies. We're saying that the lost king and the woman king are going to be playing in cinemas at the same time. And I've probably sometimes in the same cinema and I guarantee you somebody is going to accidentally buy a ticket thinking they're going to see the Viola Davis Action movie and ending up wondering why they're in a car park in Leicester.

Yes, that is very... So make sure you get the right key. Sure, you get the right key. Steve Cougan is in the Leicester one. That's what I mean. He's not in the other one. Okay, send your suggestions for anything that you'd like us to discuss. Review, if there's anything that you've missed, Like Steve Cougan is in the lester one. That's right. And he's not in the other one. OK, said your suggestions.

For anything that you'd like us to discuss, review, if there's anything that you've missed, you just want to get involved. Correspondents at kermanamer.com. And if that sounds right up your street, please do sign up for our premium value extra takes. It's such premium value. You sign up through Apple podcasts,

or if one prefers a different platform, then one should head to extra takes.com. And you're already a Vanguardista as always we salute you. An email from Mr. T. Dear high for Luton, an ultra violent junglest. If they go. Immediately we go, okay, Mr. T. Regular list. Regular list.

A few weeks ago you touched on the subject of opening directions of doors in Norway. Oh yeah, yes, to the open in or out. It is to do with snow. Any or outy. As a member of the Scandinavian chapter, I would like to point out that while there are no building codes relating to this for private residences, outwards opening doors come as standard. There are plenty of exceptions, though including my own front door. Although there was a church fire in 1822, which resulted in many people dying, after which all church doors were required to open outwards, apart from cinema emergency exits and the like Norwegian doors swing both ways. Okay, so this is what I'm Mr. T. This has been under-discusting in any other program. You did, however, suggest that Norwegian doors

should open outwards due to snow, but in reality it's completely opposite. Quite a few Norwegians have cabins in the mountains in order to maximize the level of houga. I always thought that houga was a Danish word, but it's also Danish and it's also Danish. It means well-being and hunkering downwards. Can viality. Can viality with those you love. But it also is where we get hug from. Oh, never occurred to me, but now you say it, how obvious. It's not uncommon for snow depths in higher regions to reach several meters, in which case an outward opening door would be very problematic.

Yes. Not only when arriving, and the additional snow shoveling this would require, but in the case of heavy snowfall, 30 to 40 centimetres overnight, quite possible, you could find yourself literally snowed in and unable to open the door. Therefore, inward opening doors are a must in the snow-prone parts of the country. And whilst we're on the subject of Norway, as Christmas is fast approaching, I just want to once more highlight, as also pointed out by the economist. Hello to everyone. Hello, economists economist a few weeks back. Our annual tradition of showing the 1962 sketch dinner for one. In fact, we have talked about in Germany. Yes, well, it's also in Germany, but it's now clearly in Norway. Dinner for one,

featuring Maywarden and Freddie Frinton, shown on public television on the 23rd December, a day known in Norway as little Christmas Eve. As a result of this tradition, if you recite the phrase, same procedure as last year to a Norwegian, you're guaranteed to trigger a smirk and a chuckle, just like that. So remember, if you're in Norway or Germany and you can't think of anything to say, same procedure as last year, we'll get you there. This will be the 42nd consecutive year, the black and white recording in show. Finally, we should do that for our Christmas show at some stage.

We should add that to the list. Yes. Finally, just to get this off my chest, in case anyone was still wondering, the blue cabinet is where the posh table where it was kept. For those confused sea-previous podcasts. I'm confused.

Blue cabinet is where the posh table where it was kept. We've obviously made a reference to the new cabinet. Oh, yes. No, you were talking about it. They were, yes, it exactly. Thank you. What? Yes, it was a reference to something that we were talking about in which it was a discussion relating to, I can't remember what, but yes. Okay. Much-redacted praise. Hello to Jason Tigley Tongue,

down with actual Nazis and those who abuse the term. It's actually got to the point that even we can't remember. There you go. Thank you, Mr. E. Steve Wright. No, I think I'm Peter from Germany. People from different Germany. Now, this is a splendid email. A review of vengeance coming up in just a moment, okay?

From Simon Garfield. Oh, top-journo and top writer who we were referring to on last week's pod. Yes, when he, because you had found in your mother's house a clipping of Simon Garfield reviewing the show we did when we went all the way to Los Angeles for the Phantom Menace. That's right. Just to be annoyed by Jar Jar Binks. Simon says, a dear Sans and Sans Arif, a great pleasure hearing your show, particularly pleasurable when featuring on it, passing the show with Charlotte Rampling and don't worry, darling, your quoting of an old review,

I'd written about a Mayo Kermode extravaganza from 1999, brought back fond memories. I can add a bit more color to Tink-Ditong. Oh, excellent, excellent. Should it be needed? In 2013, I published a book called To the Letter, celebrating the art of letter writing and lamenting its loss. At the very end, I wrote a personal letter to the reader, and I considered the best way of signing off. Not long after that, I came on something fabulous, called the Simon Mayer Book Club, back on Radio 2, as it was back in the day, before they... That's not Simon Garfield, that was me.

That's all right, I'm over it. And at the very end of that, we chatted about the Queen Mum and her particular anti-Nazi farewells, and so this wonderful thing took flight anew. I don't have a record of our previous conversation, but I can at least send you an edited version of that section from the book. The letters of the Queen Mother are surprisingly amusing, say Simon Garfield, who knows about this stuff, tracking the British century in a unique way. Her later correspondences, including one with Ted Hughes, are full-blooded and feisty.

Perhaps the best of all are her thank-you notes for diplomatic and exotic gifts, which serve, as fine examples to kids having to thank relatives for unusual birthday presents, a note to Prince Charles, as he was, thanking him for a large set of fluffy bath towels for her, for her hundred and first birthday, puncturates in the thought of the towels wrapping her entire body, heavenly, she says, and reflects upon the shininess of the sea and sun in Scotland. So the best sign-off comes in the midst of war, February 1940, so now we're getting to the heart of it. The Queen Mother was in Bucking Palace, writing to her friend Elizabeth Elphinstone, a nurse who had recently lost her brother in the conflict. She sends her sympathy and admits

she is as frightened of bombs and gunfire as she was at the beginning of the war, and how her heart still hammers at the sound. And then she says goodbye. But it's not just any farewell. It is tinkly-tonk old fruit and down with the Nazis, always your loving Peter. Simon I still have no idea what the Peter thing is about. But she may have picked up tinkly-tink-urinkertitong with an R, with an R from PG Woodhouse. I hope that doesn't put the matter to rest.

Anyway, Tinkertitong for now, up with peace, the love and the understanding. So the Queen Mother always signed her letters, Peter. How bizarre. But not from Germany, although in the Royal Family's case, obviously originally. Yes, yeah, originally. Precisely. Exactly, German. Simon Garfield, thank you very much,

you did correspondents. I'm actually going to turn out that you are royally related. Almost certainly. That's the Peter I'm referring to. I just fancy myself as the Queen Mother, as well. So, mover review time, tell us something that's out and intriguing. Vengeance, which is a black comedy written

directed by BJ Novak, who rose to prominence with the US version of the office. He stars as a New York journalist, Ben, who we meet, talking casual sex and dating apps with his best bro. And they're very shallow. People, but he's desperate to make a name with a topical podcast, because everyone's got a topical podcast. He gets a message in the middle of the night from some bloke in Texas saying, I've got

very bad news your girlfriend has died. He's got no idea he's talking about. Turns out that Abby was just somebody hooked up with on one of his dating apps. Somehow, however, he gets bamboozled into going to Texas to go to the funeral because the family apparently believed that he was the boyfriend. It gets there he blunders around. He kind of fumbles his way through the funeral of somebody he doesn't know. And he's on his way back when Abby's brother tells that Abbi didn't die of an overdose but was murdered and he wants vengeance.

And having previously been equal to get out of Texas, he suddenly thinks, I know I can make a podcast about this called Dead White Girl, about Abbi's family, about Texas, about the opioid crisis, about the desperate desire for vengeance and the desire to cover up conspiracy to cover up awful truth. But during the course of the drama, he also comes to wonder whether or not she really was murdered at all. So, you know, black comic idea, few contemporary twists mostly delivered by Ashton Kutcher who plays this local laid back recording guru who opines about the fact that recordings are all we leave behind and the nature of recorded truth is a clip.

Who are your favorite music artists right now? I take it yes. Yeah. You're playing this guy. What's that mean? Some computer recommends you a bunch of songs based on your favorites. And a bunch more based on your favorites of those. So you're listening to a bunch of music.

When you genuinely like, yeah, you have no idea who sings it. At least playlist, it's like the dating app or music. You're not hearing other people's voices. You're just hearing your voice. You play back at you. I suppose full enough. So here's the thing. It's an odd film.

It's got some kind of interesting ideas in it. The, actually good trends up getting the big speech, the kind of, you know, the speech about what this whole thing is really about, which comes quite late on in the film. And the problem is that the journey to that big speech is not that sure-footed. I think the film's got quite a hard time negotiating the balance between the series and the

comedy because on the one hand, the plot is essentially that he's living with a family who will bereave because they've lost a daughter, which isn't funny in the slightest. On the other hand, he's doing this kind of thing about the satire about podcasts and you know, everyone wants to make a podcast about life and about the universe and everything and everyone's desperate for a podcast, which is a, you know, a gag that we've all seen. I mean, remember that scene in Animal House? I mean, so really kind of bad taste scene in Animal House when they arrange to get dates by turning up at a sorority house and the guy pretending to be the boyfriend of somebody

that he knows has died. And in Animal House, it's outrageously bad taste, but it lasts about 10 minutes. This is kind of that gag stretched over an hour and a half, but with more sort of stuff going on underneath. It's not terrible. There are some interesting ideas in it. Good spoof me, Sarah. Ben's podcast producer, sort of cynically, is looking for the story. And there is some satirical stuff in there about this desperate desire for everybody to have a podcast that is to the very heart of the world we live in. I mean, it's fine. You don't need to see it on a big screen. It'll be perfectly fine on a small screen. So it's okay. It's passed the time. It passed the time.

Cinemars, as Cinemars release. Well, as I said, you don't need to say it. I don't know how to wait then. Still to come on this program. Still to come on this program, we have reviews of Amsterdam, we have Christian Bell on the program last week, and the Lost King without special guest Sally Hawkins, who plays Philip Langley, a woman whose eight-year quest to find the Lost Grave of Richard III is chronicled in that particular movie. Time for the ads unless you're in the Vanguard, in which case we'll be back before you can say Bertie votes. Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal Drama series.

Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the Show Edith Bowman hosts this one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns Queen Elizabeth in Mel Distant. Other guests on the new series include the Crowns research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as Voice Coach William Connaker and propsmaster Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selene Daw, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth the Bikki. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching the Crown, the official podcast,

wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the Crown, the official podcast first on November 16th. Available wherever you get your podcasts. Happy Nord Christmas. Protect yourself whilst Christmas shopping online and access all the Christmas films from around the globe. Plus, when you shop online, you'll have to give websites your card details and other sensitive

data like your personal addresses. Those websites should already have their own encryption built into their payment systems, but to be on the safe side, you can use a VPN to ensure that all data coming to and from your device is encrypted. Even if you're using an unsafe Wi-Fi, you'll still be able to shop securely with a VPN. And you can access Christmas films only available overseas by using streaming services not available in the UK. To take our huge discount of your Nord VPN plan, go to nordvpn.com slash take.

Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box. This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From myConnect directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new AkiKarri's Mackey film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize at CAN, that's in cinemas at the moment.

And if you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karri's Mackey, you can go to Mooby the streaming service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrically releasing In January Priscilla, which is a new Sophia Coppola film, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You can try Mooby free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I dot com slash Kermit and Mayo

for a whole month of great cinema for free. And we're back. Box office top 10 in just a moment, Sally Hawkins on the way. First of all, one of the streamers we talk about last week was Blond. Yes, which is now Netflix. This is an anonymous email and it says at the top, please keep this anonymous. Mark described Blond as a horror movie.

Yes. I wonder if it could also be called Exploitation Horror in the very literal sense of the term. I have never before felt guilt at watching a film and then I saw blonde. The very idea of producing a film that reiterates the horror in such a misogynistic and gratuitous detail that Marilyn Monroe experienced and then selling that product for money seems to be perpetuating Monroe's own personal hell. I'm not suggesting that it was a bad film and perhaps if it was not a biopic but of a fictional character I would be writing in with a different attitude.

However as it stands I was ashamed leaving the cinema. I was ashamed that I had added to its box office. The popularity of films such as this can only mean that they will continue to be made, let Marilyn rest, down with watching needlessly topless women suffer an anonymous email. Well, the thing I'd say to that is firstly, these kind of films is a broad and strange statement that they will continue to be made. I doubt you'll see another film like Blonde in the near future. Secondly, on the question of exploitation, I mean, you know, horror cinema and exploitation cinema, I remember once talking to Roger Coleman and said, Roger Coleman said, yeah, I started

out making, I said, I started out making horror movies. Then I was told I was making exploitation movies and now I'm told I'm making high concept movies. But to me, they're all just the same. So the question of whether or not blonde is exploiting its subject is one that's been raised by its critics, and a lot of people really don't like blonde. I don't think it's anything to do with Marilyn Monroe. I think despite the fact that it's got all these kind of recreations of the, you know, the Monroe set pieces, I don't think it's that at all. I think it is a horror movie about childhood trauma revisited through adulthood.

I think it is a very, as I said, I think it's a cruel film. But whether or not you think that's a bad thing, I think is entirely subjective. Of course, but obviously it feels complicit in the cruel. Yes, and I would say that I think a horror movie making you feel complicit in that is actually not a bad thing. I mean, again, I'd refer you to something like Henry Portrever serial killer, which got itself into all manner of trouble for precisely that reason. So, you know, feeling ashamed of watching a film is an interesting thing. And I think that one of the things, I mean, as somebody who is a diehard horror fan, one of the things horror quite often does is, is challenges what your relationship with what's happening on screen is about.

And I think that a film that raises those questions and those feelings is actually doing something interesting. I would stress again, however, that it's not for everybody, but the thing I would say is, I don't think you are likely to see another film like blonde in the near future. It is not I don't want you needlessly topless women stuff. Yeah, I would disagree with that statement. I don't think that's what the film is about. But I equally understand that some people absolutely detest it.

And believe me, the divisiveness of it has been, I think, almost it's kind of defining factor. And I'm sure that one of the issues with it is that people think they're going to see a Marilyn Monroe by a pick and they're not. They are going to see a horror movie that owes a debt to repulsion much more than it does to anything to do with Marilyn Monroe.

Correspondents at curbandermayah.com. Okay, box office, top 10 at 20 here, but nowhere in America. Flux Gormais. Oh, the subject of films that are not for everyone, just for you. Yeah, I mean, I really like this. I'm a huge Peter Strickland fan.

I know you like the Barian Sound Studio. I was a big fan of him, Fabric. I do think that Flux Gormet is probably the most Peter Strickland film, and he's probably the film which is most for Peter Strickland fans and not for everybody else. You have been warned. But I really, really enjoyed it. I think the soundtrack is really interesting.

I think it's got some great ideas and some really funny moments in it, but it's also got some profundity to it and nobody makes films like Peter Strickland. Number 10, Tad, The Lost Explorer, and The Curse of the Mummy. Still don't understand it, but there we go. Number nine here, number nine in the US, DC League of Superpets.

And again, I think this is the vacuum theory. I think it did as well as it did because there wasn't anything else around. Number eight, minions, the rise of grew, which I still find funny, and actually weirdly enough, the other day, I wondered when it was going to be available on DVD, so I can watch it again.

Seven in the UK 11 in the States, see how they run. Which I think is really terrific. And I mean, everyone I know who's seen it has been surprised by just how funny it is. And everyone I know who's seen it has said isn't social, social, social, and absolutely fabulous. And to which the answer is yes, in everything.

Number six in the UK, number four in the States avatar, the reissue. Well, that's done amazingly well. We are the Navi. We sing and dance in the moonlight. Number five. We are the medical imperialist in the UK. Maybe a colonial metaphor. It's very famous. Number seven in America. Ponyon Sylvan. So this is the latest from Mani Ratnam, who is probably best known here for Dilsay which is a huge breakthrough hit. This is part one, a son of 20, part one, period action drama based on the 1995 novel by Kalki, a Christian Murty, part two was on the way, follows the life of Emperor, Emperor, Rosaraja in 947 to 1014. It's currently the second highest grossing

Tamil movie of the year and the ninth highest grossing Tamil movie of all time. It wasn't um, press screened in advance but I will try and catch up with it but it proves once again that the market for Indian cinema here is huge without any need of press coverage in these outlets. If you've seen Pony and Silverman one, we would like your review please. Yes, please. Yes, please. Yes, we. And when it comes to streaming, I'll watch it and give you a sort of full breakdown.

Correspondence to codeamair.com. Number four in the UK unsurprisingly not charted in America. Mrs Harris goes to Paris, which is, I mean, it's very good-natured fluff. It's based on a book by Paul Gallicone weirdly enough. I did an event over the weekend, which was about the Alan Rickman diaries. There was a bunch of people giving tribute to Alan Rickman.

The director of Mrs Harris goes to Paris was then we started talking. And we started talking about Paul Gallicone. I said, you know, the best Paul Gallicone book is the boy with the bubble gun. He went, wow, I love that book too. Now, I have never met anybody else who's even heard of the boy with the bubble gun, which is, I read it when I was a kid and I was, I absolutely loved it. So you know, Mrs. Harris goes to Paris is a very sweet natured, very kind of boy and film.

We got lovely performance by Jason Isaacs in it. Or Jason. And I do think, and I said this to the director at the time, I think with things the way they are in the world at the moment, a bit of buoyant uplifting fluff goes a long way. Number three here, nowhere in the States, ticket to paradise. And on the subject of Good Nature Fluff, it is interesting that those films are at, you know, number four and number three, what does that tell you? It tells you that right now there is a market

for I just want two hours of nice things. Exactly right. And actually that is something which does strike close to your heart because the number of times you've said to me, what's a film like? I've said, you know, it's perfectly good fluff and you've got good. Yeah, but it certainly is a good time to be going to see that kind of thing

Number two in the UK number three in the States. Don't worry darling Okay, why don't I go first? An email from Rahul Narian in Manchester a level in film studies. Yeah Don't worry dear. Don't worry darling and we're absolutely bird, darling. A very uneven film with near equal amounts of positives and negatives. That's that's well put. It has an interesting premise, but an uninspiring twist. It's a discussion of the play. It's not even a twist.

It's like a which one of they get, oh, they go and went for that one. It's a discussion of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity. It's interesting and important, but ultimately is underdeveloped and under-explored. It has Florence Pugh turning in the kind of great performance that we've come to expect from her. Yes. And it has Harry Styles acting like he's very unsure of what a movie is. Shalabuff was a poor choice for this role for so many non-acting reasons, but Harry Styles

was a terrible replacement exactly for acting reasons. I thought he did a perfectly adequate job in Dunkirk when playing a bit part with lesser-known actors, but in this film where he is front and center with an Academy Award nominee, his wooden performance is infinitely exacerbated. Subsequently, it is Miss Pugh who has to carry every scene like she's rescuing it from a burning press conference. Anyway, thanks for the show, down with the Nazis, and up with the pound, hopefully. Thank you Rahul.

Yeah, I mean, I agree with, I think every word of that, the only thing I would add to it is Steppard Wives is shorter and better. And the number one movie here and the number one in America is Smire, which I mean, it is slightly surprising just because, you know, horror movie straight into number one,

but as I said, but I reviewed it last week, just because you know horror movie straight into number one but as I said when I reviewed it last week it works well it's a simple idea it's it's basically you know it's got a lot of quiet quite bang stuff in it but it's some and it is also it owes a very great debt to to to to ring you to to the original ring movies but it's done well and it's done efficiently and it creep me out a little bit and I jump three times. Jump three times on the ceiling if you want me. Well done twice on the pipe if the answer is no. Rich says that incidentally is about as topical as the music references on this show. Was that Tony Orlando and Dawn? Yeah, I think it was just dawn at the time. Was this Tony Orlando? Good dawn. Tony Orlando always sounds like he ought to be saying more cheese, sir.

Does he? Well, it's Tony Orlando, you know, it's just the whole thing about Tony Orlando and dawn. It's like Murf and the Magic Tones. Don't you go changing? I haven't understood a word you said. Anyway, smile. Rich says, hey guys, long time legacy listener of the show. Excellent.

And appreciate all the interesting content you produce. I've just listened to the review and correspondence regarding smile. I think Mark made his points with consideration and elegance. It was kind of which I commend him. Thank you. I enjoyed smile but didn't read it as about a curse. Because this was a, we discussed this on that. It was about whether or not it was about mental health or whether it was about a demonic

curse. I did think it was about the allegory. I read it that the curse was mental health. I am a serving police officer and suffer from PTSD linked both to my career and childhood trauma. I didn't take issue with the film's handling of quotes the curse that is PTSD being surrounded by happy smiling people in the real world

when there is immense and unhappy noise in your head can be deeply unsettling and disorientating. Having picked through the bones of my own struggles, the need to return to the root cause and confront it has been a big part of my therapy, a plot beat in this film that is well handled. Where I do agree with the listener who corresponded in this episode on last week's show, is in the handling of the ending, given the overt, subtext the movie deployed around mental health, it would have been beneficial in this case

to go against the grain and end on a more hopeful and less dark note. Keep up the good work. Also, unless you want to do that. Well, firstly, thank you. That's a very, very well written email. It is always possible. I mean, all horror has a subtextural level

if one cares to find it. And I'm sometimes surprised by how people will find subtexting things that I hadn't particularly seen them in. I thought of small as much more kind of surface movie. Although, obviously, all horror has an allegorical level because all horror is related to fairy tales and childhood trauma on some fundamental kind of, you know, grims level.

But Rich, thank you very much for the email. Also on Smile, Tom, LTL, second time emailer, I've just come out of a reassuringly busy Sunday night screening of Smile at Thlandudno's World of Sinny. Parkofins film liberally borrows from the work of Hideo Nakata, Sam Raimi, and David Robert Mitchell. But the result is- That's his follows. Thank you.

But the result is a very effective curse horror yarn. The gurning grins of the Smiley people were suitably disturbing. And despite my best efforts, a couple of the quiet, quiet bangs frightened that Good Heavens above out of me. A surprising number of darkly comic moments brought audible chuckles from the audience and helped balance the dread and grief endured by soci-bacon's rows. Whilst not groundbreaking, this is one of

the most effective and dare I say enjoyable horrors of 2020. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. A number of people have made the comparison to it follows and, you know, obviously it follows follows the Hideo Nakata stuff. If you're interested in this, the perfect text in many ways is Hideo Nakata's Darkwater, which is like the film, I think it's Hideo Nakata's masterpiece. piece. And I think that has got almost everything that everyone is talking about this having, but just in, you know, in such great quantities, I mean, it's such a wonderful film. It was a huge debt to Nick Rogue. Nick Rogue's don't look now, but Darkwater is the film that you should check out if you're interested in all the stuff that's going on in this. If you want to get involved, correspondents at KermannMair.com. Our guest today is the fabulous Sally Hawkeon.

Right. Pardon? Who are they? Yes they need. Enraha. Enraha Poppy. Which I think that's going to come up in take-to. I think Rosanne did say that people still take-to. I think that's going to come up in take-to.

I think it was, and did say that people still shout that they're adding in the streets. Well, it is fantastic. It's one of my favourite Eddie Marzem performances. Anyway, shape of water, all that gods and all that kind of stuff. Sally Hawkins has been so great in so many things. A new film is called The Lost King, and you'll hear some of my conversation with Sally after this clip. Please don't take this the wrong way. Hmm. But even from my perspective, this is starting to look a bit like an unhealthy obsession.

I can't believe you just said that. I'm doing this for you. Do you know what people say about you? I'm sure it's not particularly flattering. Do you know who William Shakespeare is? Okay, well he was a very celebrated writer and everyone thinks he's amazing and he wrote a play about you. And there's this bit where you're supposedly talking about yourself. Go on.

So lame and unfashionable that dogs bark at me as I hope by them. You're so weird that you even freak out dogs. It's a bit harsh. As a clip from The Last King, I'm delighted to say I've been joined by at Star Sally Hawking, Sally. Hello, good afternoon. How are you? Hi, lovely to speak with you and thank you so much for your time. Yeah, huge fan of you, as you know. Well, thank you, thank you for your time. I think we spoke

for Eternal Beauty a couple of years ago. I think that was the last time. Oh, yes, of course. Yes, with Mark, yeah, lovely. I think that was like peak lockdown. What's it peak lockdown? Well, I think so. That five years ago, doesn't it? Yeah.

It absolutely does. Anyway, delighted to speak to you again for the last king. I guess most people are going to know the story. Yeah. There aren't many sort of film conversations you can start by sort of giving away the ending. And I guess most people are going to know the story. There aren't many sort of film conversations you can start by giving away the ending. And I guess most people know that Richard III was found in a car park in Lester. So they registered that story. But it's still when it's told in a movie, it's still an extraordinary story.

Tell us about your character, Philippa Langley. Yeah, she is extraordinary. I mean, of course, what's wonderful about this is everyone sort of knows a little bit about it, but not quite the extent. The way it's depicted in the film, it's not the real life version. Of course, it's sort of like a parallel world.

You know, I don't look anything like her and you're making a film, but Philip is an extraordinary person, sort of amateur historians. She backed up by a lot of research that she stumbled across her remains of Richard III. She knew by instinct, of course backed up by the research that actually in her book, has spanned a number of years and pulled for many resources. And she was the one sort of brought it together and hit upon the fact that he is remains a renecarch, I suppose she was. She is an academic and also incredibly smart

and well educated, but not a professor by any means coming from very much an ordinary, no, but there is any such thing. How swive you mother of two, now single and sort of struggling to find her way in the world, I suppose, that's where you sort of enter the film as we're telling it or the story as we're telling it. So this is, you know, I should never do interviews because I'm the worst at soundbites and something you know. Oh, no, no, listen, Sally, you know, you're Sally Hawkins and you're in a movie. So we just want to hear you talk about it and that's absolutely fine. But when it, when, when the idea comes to you, so it's written by Steve Kugan and Jeff Pope, they have a great track record. Why did you think this is for me? What was it about

playing a version of Philip Langley that made you think this is a good film, good fit for me? I think, wow, it's a combination of every one and everything. You're forever surrounded by brilliance. And I loved the script. I loved the fantasy element of it. I thought that was a very clever device. They're very clever at making it sort of touching on weighty subjects, but never, never actually landing it too heavily.

I thought they're very extraordinary in the way they work together. And it's Stephen Prius. I mean, Stephen Prius is everything. There's nothing that I think Stephen Prius cannot do. Well, he spans many genres and he's a master. And you have the story and you have the documentary. I didn't quite know much about her. And then I read the book.

It's very different from the document. It's not doing the sort of real timeline of it as it's depicted in the book, which is quite the complex and spans number of years. And also you mentioned the fantasy element because it might surprise some people to learn that Richard III is in this movie, not in Flashback, but played by Harry Lloyd, he plays,

Richard III. Can you just explain how he turns up and why he turns up. He is, I suppose, a manifestation of her inner world. It's sort of very much, which I love about that. There is a very, it's a very powerful and press burger ask matter of life and death type device.

And I suppose the real life-felliper was talking to him in her head maybe but absolutely not seeing a vision. She goes to see a play, goes to she's sort of engaging her son with his O-levels and it's her, she goes to see the rich the third and the depiction of Shakespeare, as we all know, is of this villain. And I think it just gets her, that's the way into the story. He sort of comes to her. I think it's one of those, she's having an inner crisis, whether she's aware of it or not. And it is a way of, it's like a the way I saw it was a manifest,

it's like a sort of a manifestation of that in a very physical form and apparition. She's hallucinating, I think she's going slightly mad and maybe she is, there's two stories going on it's a woman in crisis and then eventually finding her voice and it's the story of finding those bones mostly on instinct, the resting place of Richard III, and then the story beyond that, it's that the woman who fights the higher power. I think we all relate to those underdog stories of someone sort of winning over it, the authorities, is it where I suppose? You've talked about instincts and this comes up a lot in the movie that you think, and

it's the thing that annoys the academics a lot, that you say, I think this is the right thing to do, you have feelings, and they absolutely hate that because it's not scientific and it's not rigorous. And in a way they've got a point, haven't they? Because you can't start a dig on the basis of instinct or feelings. I don't know, maybe you can. Absolutely. I think, yeah, I think it is interesting that question. And she was questioned and it was dismissed because it's mad. It seems very strange and rightly so and and yet she was right. Which is the ultimate yes you can dismiss the feelings except that she was completely correct in this particular case. This found you know I mean she was completely correct in this particular case. This found, you know, a mean she was researching this with a lot of pulling a lot of resources together. So it was backed up by the research and by her pursuit of that. I think because somebody is focused

and knowing like that real drive, I believe that I am right, and I'm going to not stop until I'm not going to stop, and she never ever gave up. It's extraordinary that moment, and that's why I love the magic, realism of it, because how can you explain that? There's something, there's something that otherworldly going on, surely. And of course,

she was very aware, she's not a professional. And the professionals and the professors are, some of them are supportive, some of them are quite snooty, the extent to which they actually were is obviously disputed. But in your story, it feels as though there's a lot of gender politics going on, Sally, that they are mansplaining to you and they're not quite prepared to give you all the belief that you're entitled to because they are higher up, the food chain than you are. Is that true? Do you think? Definitely. I think there's a lot of truth in that. I think, you know, not only is she not one of them, she's a woman, you know, it is seen through her,

seen through this particular lens, it's seen through her POV, and it is very different. We're not doing the documentary, the film of the documentary, is it work? I feel, it's ambiguous on both sides, but the fact is she wasn't, she had to fight, she had to fight a long time, and it's hard. I do understand, actually. And she's formidable, Sally, the way you play her, she is a formidable woman and misunderstood,

I mean, maybe we can overplay this, but misunderstood, like Richard III is misunderstood. I think that's what's driving her really, the pursuit of truth. And that was quite, it's interesting listening to audio of Philippa, early on, I was listening to, there's a lot of footage out there and you sort of, you start with a script and then you go back to the source material

and you think, well, that's relevant and that's not for this one. And what was key for me was her pursuit of the truth that was something embedded in her from childhood and above all else from her father and high morals and what is what is right and being true to yourself, I think, but she is formidable and she doesn't give up. I think at this point in her life she has nothing to lose and she's determined to be her. So all we want in life is to be her and understood on a fundamental and very basic level, whatever you're fighting for. Jim fed up with being overlooked in the corporate world and wherever she goes. You can't help but I hope love her for that and her determination.

There's stealing rod determination. I just want to ask you about Steve Kuggen. He was one of the writers on this picture and he plays your kind of estranged husband, ex-husband. I really liked your family setup. I thought it felt really different. It's a very nuanced performance from Steve Cougan because even though you're going your separate ways, he is still very supportive of you and of the children. It's not really what we're used to in a film.

It's interesting as people sort of only saw John, I didn't see Steve and then, within, you know, he can immediately put on the right his head and put on the exact, he's quite extraordinary in that way, Steve. I love family set up. She does ask a great deal of him, of her husband, ex-husband.

She does. Yeah, it's quite extraordinary how much he asks and how much he's willing to do. And I love that relationship. And I loved working with him. He's very, very smart. I think he's really lovely and at John. It's warm and I love his arc.

And it's nice that he's playing someone that we haven't seen him play ever. So, yes, Steve is one of those people can do it. He's an exceptionally good actor as well as writer and comedian. Coming from you who does art house drama, fantasy blockbuster's family favorite period dramas, you know, I think you can do pretty much

anything as well. We have a lot of listness questions which we're going to do in take two, but for the moment Sally, thank you very much. You're very special. Thank you. Love you. That's Sally Hawkins. Who loves you, Simon? I didn't notice when we recorded that into you. That ends up with her saying, thank you, love you, Simon, because I should then clearly say that I love you too or something like that, but you don't, you've just got your eye on the professional clock going on too. Well, I also knew that because in so-and-take-to, you'll hear more with Sally, because there were lots of listeners questions, you know, talking about some of the other movies that she's been involved in, she's

got lots to say, and she's always fascinating. So for subscribers, the Vanguard Easter, they'll get more with Sally, but everyone else is, we've all heard her talk about her new movie, The Last King. If you're going to go and see it, make sure, as Mark said, you're going to see the right movie, the right king. They're going to see the movie. We'll go and see them both.

So what did you make of The Last King? Well, it's interesting. So something that comes out of that interview is that what Sally Hawkins was saying was that there are two stories. One of them is the story of, you know, the uncover of the remains of the uncovering. That's good. I like that word. Is that not a word? Uncovering? The uncovering or the discovery? The discovery? What should you uncover? You had just started a new story. No, that's great. I thought that up in an airplay station of the remains of Richard III.

And the other is the story of somebody who is trying to find their own value, their own worth, trying to be taken seriously in a world in which they think that they are sidelined. And the central conceit is that she goes to see the play of Richard III, Richard III is maligned by Shakespeare in his portrayal of him, you know, Dog's Bach at Me as you heard in that thing,

and that she, because she has ME, she has been, you know, thought of at work as unreliable, people don't take it seriously, she's battling a whole bunch of stuff, and what she needs is some kind of affirmation, but she sees in her situation and that of a Richard, a kind of similarity, that kindred spirit. So there are two different things to talk about. One of them is this is a role that Sally Hawkins is almost born to play because one of the things that she has is a real mix of vulnerability and strength. She has a way on screen of portraying a character who can be almost on the brink of cracking, somebody who can be very, very fragile,

but also somebody who has real stirdiness, I'm thinking back to, for example, like a performance in Made in Dagnum, which I absolutely love. Also, there's an element that I think in shape of water. And then you have the real life story, which is that Philip Langley herself has said that when she went to the car park, she got goose bumps.

And she felt that she was drawn there by something, and everyone going, well, you know, feelings are one thing, but is this really enough reason to dig up the car park? And as Sally Hulken said, but you know what, she was right. So there is this kind of strange, stranger than fiction twist to the real story is that although there was a lot of research that would lead you to that car park anyway, and in which she wasn't alone incidentally, the conviction that she had and the pulling all these things together so that they actually did dig up

the ones was driven to some extent by something which felt supernatural almost. And on the screen, this is represented by the figure of Richard III inspired by the play, walking around sometimes on horseback, kind of leading the thing. So she starts having a dialogue, and Sally will be saying, it's an inner dialogue, but it is dialogue. So we have that. On the other hand, we have the actual relationship to the true story, with which liberties have been taken. I mean, as you probably know, if you've followed the press, at least University, you've had those very solidly out of joint about the way

in which they are portrayed as basically having, you know, been very, very, you know, dismissive at the beginning and then leaping in and taking credit. Certain people who appear in the cast have felt that they have been wrongly maligned. One should say that if you look at Steve Cougan and Jeff Pope's previous work, Phil Amino, which again was a true story, but with which there were dramatic liberties taken, Martin Sixmith didn't, he went to Washington on his own, Philharmonic didn't come with him. Also the character of Sister Hildegard in the film of Philharmonic is very much villainized, but she wasn't actually there because she died before Martin Sixmith turned up. So there is a history of rearranging

events for dramatic purpose. And there are two separate questions. One of those is how would that relate to somebody who is still around today, who feels that they have been treated wrongly on film? And I think that is one issue. And the other one is how does it work in terms of the film dramatically? Well, dramatically does work. Dramatically, it is the story of somebody who is neglected and overlooked and sidelined and kind of looked down upon,

but who follows her own dreams, her own vision, literally her own vision of Richard III, because you know what, turns out she was right. So I think it kind of negotiates those two things, and there are two separate arguments to be had about the film as regarding those things. I think sometimes the metaphors are too on the nose. I think the bit when Steve Cougan says, I feel like I've got a gun put to my head and we cut to a gun firing over. It's like, okay, Stephen, I heard it the first time. I didn't actually need the large gun going on with the comic thing. And I think sometimes the sort of the faintly ridiculousness of the character of Richard wandering out. Obviously, that's going to be a serious comic and it's meant to have a comic side to it.

But occasionally, it works less well than it should do. And I did feel, even as I was watching it, this feels constructed. I mean, this definitely feels like we've constructed this as a drone. But Sally Hawkins is the perfect person for that role. And it's, it reminded me of the dig. You remember the... Oh, very much so, yes, absolutely. Oh, fine.

So it's got a similar kind of charming whimsicality to it. And at the center of it, a character who is, you know, who is not taken as seriously as they deserve to be during the course of the drama, proving their worth at least to us the audience, then as it turns out, and in the wider world. So I think it's fun. I don't think it's a masterpiece by any means,

but I think it's okay. But I do understand that some people have their noses put out of joint bite, and I understand that as well. Yeah, that's unbelievably balanced of me, isn't it? It is, really. I think that's unnecessarily balanced. But I do think that the comparison with the dig will occur to people. It's such an interesting way, you know,

how Ray Fines character just was a bit of an outsider, so therefore got written out by the academic, yes, the strong academic types who were used to getting their way and all this kind of stuff. And then the smaller people in a vertical and let's get left behind, and there are similar themes. I think there is a wider truth about academia

and the way in which academia can relate to certain subjects in the world. I think the specific truths here may have been manipulated for dramatic purposes. They certainly look like they have been. And now we welcome you to the draw for the round of 16 for the 2022 World Cup of Horror. Oh! I'm again joined by Dr. Mark Kermord, author of the Radical Ethical and Political

Implicate, oh hang on, I've gone too soon. You've got to be big too early. Music's too busy. Too busy, lots of stuff going on. There you go. All through the radical, ethical and political implications of modern British and American horror fiction. Hello again, Mark. Hello.

Thank you for joining us here. Welcome. Excited for the draw of the round of 16. Oh yeah. Let's quickly run through the first round. The thing beat Dawn of the Dead. Did it? The exorcist beat an American Werewolf in London.

Well, thank heaven for that. And let the right one in beat the Vivitch, alien beat Carrie, the shining beat 28 days later. I think I called most of these correctly, didn't I? Scream built beats the descent. Yeah. Jaws beat the innocence. Get out, beat the fog. Yes.

Psycho beat Nosferatu. Yes. I call all of these correct. The Wickman beat Ringo. Yeah, all of them. Nightmare and M Street beats Asperia. Yeah. Sean of the Dead beat Halloween.

Oh no, okay. I called that wrong. Evil Dead. Sean of the Dead beat Halloween. Evil Dead, hang on, hang on. Sean of the Dead beat Halloween. Well, I just said, evil dead two beat Rosemary's baby. Don't look now.

Okay. Lost to the Omen. The Texas Chains. Don't look now lost to the Omen. The Texas Chains. Don't look now lost to the Omen. The Texas Chainsaw Man. What's happening in the world? Texas Chainsaw Masquerade lost to the night of the living debt. And they're beat the night of the living debt.

I always said that was too close to call. And a quiet place beat Onibaba. So that's no surprise, because no one other than me has seen Onibaba. OK, so it's time for the horror tron to do its evil work. So one is the thing, two is the exorcist, three is let the right one in, four is alien, five is the shining, six is scream, seven is jaws, eight is get out, nine is psycho, ten is the wicker man, elevenaw masquer and 16 is a quiet place here we go Here we go let the horror trundu its work and the first ball out is number nine number nine Psycho number nine

It's gonna play movie number 15 Texas chainsaw massacre that will be psycho Here's the interesting connection. What's the connection between psycho and sex chainsaw Kevin Bacon? 15, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That will be psycho. Here's the interesting connection. What's the connection between psycho and sex chainsaw? Kevin Bacon. No, both inspired by the figure of a king. Quiet place will be playing,

moving number eight, which is get out. Number 11 is next out, a nightmare on Elm Street. Mm-hmm. It's going to play. Okay, here we go. Moving number five, which is the shining. Okay, the shining will win, but I think actually Night of the Elm Street

is a better film. Never been crazy about the shining. Don't understand all the gelatement for it. Six is scream. Yeah. He's going to play number 14, The Omen. Okay. Well, that's, ah, that's, God, that's that's okay, that's that's hard. That's hard. Do you get Omen or win? Maybe number 10 next. The Wicker Man. Yeah. We'll play.

Moving number seven, which is Jaws. Jaws will win that. That's, I mean, again, that's a very, very hard call, but I think Jaws will win, which is weird for the Wiccoma to be knocked out by a shark. Moving number three is let the right one in. Yep. He's gonna play moving number four, alien. I will buy by let the right one in. This is what I think is going to happen not what I think should happen

Number 12 sure of the dead yeah Which I always loved it's gonna play movie number one Which is the thing sure of the dead that'll be the thing and so the final two You can I got somebody competent to do this are All two. You can have got somebody competent to do this. Ah, the exorcist? Yes. We'll play.

Number 13, Evil Dead Two. Yeah, well, you know. And can I just, yeah, I'm not going to say anything because I know the way this works, because the way this works is everyone goes, right, let's vote for Evil Dead Two just to annoy Mark so that the exorcist got knocked out by Evil Dead Two. And that completes the draw for the round of 16 for the 2022 World Cup of horror films. Ties will be played on Twitter, 9th, 10th and 11th of October. Quarterfinals on the 17th, semi-final on the 24th,

and then the final, the 31st of October, live during our show at the Indigo, where cosplay seems to be being discussed seriously. Who would you cosplay as if you cosplay as anyone? I've got a William Shatnamar's that you can use to do Michael Myers. I mean, I'll just take suggestions. I'll, you know,

Hockeymask, Jason Voorhees. That'd be fine. Ghostface. Plenty of suggestions will be welcome. Correspondents at Kerminomeo.com. It's the ads in a minute mark. First, it's time to step once again into our low-falutin' laughter lift.

F***ing. Hey. Hey. Hey, Mark. Hey. Horror slash Halloweeny theme to this week's Tip Top Laughter Lift, which we've renamed the slaughter lift. So you did the, yeah.

I mean, it kind of works when it's written down. Yes. And you would think maybe slaughter and laughter are connected as words, but they're not there. It is true that a band called Laughter in the Dogs would have done substantially less well. That's also true. I did an altruistic good deed today.

OK. I gave blood. I'm never doing it again though. Way too many questions, Mark. Whose blood is it? Where did you get it from? Why do you have it? Why is it in a bucket?

You know who likes... That's quite good. That's a good Halloweeny thing. You know who likes blood, Mark? Going. That's right. Vampires. Yeah.

I was walking through Hampstead Heath after dark last weekend. Don't ask. I saw two priests strolling near the hollow tree. And out of nowhere, Mark, a vampire. A vampire. The first priest says, quick, show him your cross. And the other one says,

I'm extremely surprised. You're playing yourself out, man. You're playing yourself out, man. He was very upset, actually. You should have just left it at sea to show him your cross. He was very upset though this vampire. So I tried to strike up a conversation with him. Turns out he's not only a vampire, he's a flat-earther.

What was his name, or who you ask? What was his name? Again, this works quite well written down. His name was No Sphere Ratu. Yeah. Written down, honestly, I was who's this is. Of course Mark, you do realise that vampires aren't real unless you count Dracula. Very good. Anyway, what's still to come Mark? I'm still going to be reviewing the Bear, which is a TV series and also Amsterdam. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to be reviewing the Bear, which is a TV series and also Amsterdam. Amsterdam, are you? Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

Yeah, that's good. I thought you were. I've watched it. And Amsterdam, which is new movie by David Russell starring Christian Bell, who was on the show last week. We'll be back after this, unless you're a Vanguardista, in which case we'll be back before you can say Casper Hyrumant. Trying to escape the holiday playlist.

Well, it's not gonna happen here. D's a season for evocation. Fa la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la with sunwing seasons of savings on now. Why not ditch the cold and dive straight into sun? Visit your local travel agent or sunwing.ca And we're back unless you're with the Van Goddistan, in which case we were never away. We were never away. Never went away. Missed you already. Tell us something that's out there that we should be getting involved with. So the bear, which is an anxiety-ridden comedy drama

created by Christopher Storer, that was on FX Hulu in America and is now available in its entire season one on Disney Plus. Set, like boiling point, in the pressure cooker environment of a kitchen, which we are now duty-bound to call the pressure cooker environment is just that's how you have to do it. Although not a posh eatery, but an Italian beef sandwich shop in Chicago run by Jeremy Alan White as Kami who was a celebrated chef in a very famous New York restaurant, but then return home to take over the sandwich shop after

his brother Michael's death. His Eclipse. You're going to make family. It's meat plus three and we eat around two. Yeah, her dope. Cool. What's up? Can I just like ask you a question, maybe?

Of course, yeah. I know who you are. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're the most excellent CDC at the most excellent restaurant in the entire United States of America. So what are you doing here I guess? Making sandwiches. Which is exactly what he's doing. Why isn't he you know still in New York making incredibly fancy shmanchey dishes? So the shop is struggling. They do beef that don't use spaghetti. For some reason, the brother used small tins of tomatoes, not large tins of tomatoes,

which it looks like it's not relevant, but kind of is. The shop is struggling against a whole number of things. Firstly, Kami has to deal with Richie, whose brother's best friend, he now is effectively his boss, but who also has a habit on the side, or actually in the back alley. He has to deal with health inspectors, and very early on, they get a health inspection thing, and they get a bad rating. Again, this will remind you of boiling point, because the first thing that happens in boiling point is a health inspector turns up.

Local gangsters, Jimmy Sistro, played by all of the plat, to whom Michael was mysteriously in debt. On the plus side, Sydney, who you heard there, is inexperienced, but full of smart ideas, learning how to turn things around, despite initial hostility from the co-workers, each of whom have their own stories. So in a way, the first, this series, is kind of like an origins story of the bear.

Very much light-boarding point, although obviously not the same single-shot thing. It has that panicky feeling in a kitchen, is very, very well-avoid. I mean, if you took what it's like to be in a kitchen from the way it's portrayed on screen, you would never go in a kitchen in your entire life. It seems to be the most stressful environment on Earth.

I've never worked in a kitchen. I'm sure anyone who has would say probably is very, very stressful. Great soundtrack of alternative 80s and 90s pop and rock, but what makes it work is that you do get drawn into it. At the very beginning, the first episode, you are absolutely thrown into the environment and the situation and the character. And for the first, the whole of the first episode, you spend your time trying to figure out exactly what's happening, who everybody is trying to sort of make sense of it all. By the time you get to episode sort of four or five, you've found your way into the sinewy story and you're kind of following all the emotional leads. And it's about addiction and obsession and guilt and anxiety and families and family ties and split loyalties and all that sort of stuff

But it's very very propulsive and it is one of those things in which it's the whole Tenor of the thing is like that. It's kind of it's kind of quite exhausting You could sit down and watch it all in one go, but you'd be absolutely worn out by the end of it. But I thought it was very entertaining. I was recommended it by producer Simon Pulle, who said, literally, you'll start watching it and you'll be dragged right into it. And you are.

It does grab you by the lapels and pull you in. But it is also quite, it's pretty full on and you do feel like the need to step away. So I watched it over a few days. And apparently I think another series has now been commissioned. It's been very, very well received and easy to understand why. Excellent. And that's on Disney+. Yes, it's on Disney+. Okay. And that is the bear. Now a bumper version of what's on now. This is where you email us a voice note about a festival or a special screening from wherever you are in the world. You can email yours to correspondents at kermedomeo.com. This week we start with Vicki. Hi Simon and Mark. I'm Vicki from Milk Tea Films. Come join us on the evening of the 18th of October at the beautiful Garden Cinema and Covent Garden for mixtape volume 2. A fabulous program of short films celebrating British, East and Southeast Asian acting talent. Tickets available at milktfilms.com forward slash mixtape 2.

I'm Simon and Mark, it's Glenn from the Science Museum, curator of our blockbuster exhibition Science Fiction, Voyage to the Edge edge of imagination, which is open now. Visitors are placed within an immersive science fiction story, journeying through the cosmos in an alien spacecraft with an AI guide to explore how scientists and science fiction creators have inspired each other. Hope to see you here soon.

Hi, Simon and Mark. This is Trisha Tuttle. I'm the director of the BFI London Film Festival. And I'm sending you a quick hello from the South Bank, which is the heart of the festival. We open today, and we run through the 17th of October in London, and in cinemas around the UK, and there really is something for film fans of all tastes. We've got films coming up like Noah Bombak's, White Noise. We're hosting not just films, but also series.

And I'm really looking forward to the world premiere of the first few episodes of the BBC's New Show, The English. Coming down to the BFI South Bank or to an independent cinema near you. If you can't catch us here, check us out on the BFI player from the 14th to the 23rd of October. Thank you and see you there. So Trisha from the BFI player from the 14th to the 23rd of October. Thank you and see you there. So Trisha from the BFI, London Film Festival, hello Trisha.

Glenn from the Science Museum, that's great. And Vicki from Milk T-Films. Fantastic. Excellent work. Thank you very much. Very, very solid range of entertainment there. If you've got something that you would like us to shout about, you send roughly a 22 audio trailer, though clearly Trisha pushed that boundary just... From wherever you are in the world. And a couple of weeks up front, if possible, and then we can include you on the show,

and you can give yourselves a jolly good shout out. That's Correspondence at Kerberna Meyer.com. So we had Christian Baal on the show last week. A particularly chatty and convivial Christian Baal. He was, and he was, he was very good company, and I enjoyed speaking to him about his new movie, Amsterdam, which is now out. New film by David O. Russell,

once famously referred to on a very short live television program as David O. Russell, the famous Irish film maker. I'm who made three kings, the fighter, Silverlinings, Playbook, American Hustle, a director about whom stories abound. If you have a moment, do Google's David O'Rossal and Lily Tomlin. So when Christian Bale was talking about making the film, he did say that he had to go and speak to some of his co-stars who were terrified on that on their first day. JD Washington, Margot Robbie. Yeah. These are major stars being scared. It was slightly freaked out exactly. So American Hustle opened with some of this actually happened. This opens

with a lot of this really happened. So opens with a lot of this really happened. So this is a kind of David error. Interesting because we were talking before about the Lost King, which maybe at the beginning of the Lost King, they should have said some of this actually happened. So this is inspired by the business part of 1933, which was a real life thing. It was a real life 1933, which was a real-life thing. It was a real-life plot allegedly to destabilise and overthrow the Roosevelt government and install a dictator, which obviously under the current way things are currently going seems to be oddly topical. Christian Baal, Margarabi and John David Washington JD, as you called him, played Bert Vowlery and Harold, respectively, a doctor, a nurse, and a lawyer who are trying to get Robert De Niro's general

Jill Dillenbeck to speak, Gil Dillenbeck to speak at their veterans' ball. They met many years ago. He needs reassurance that they are who they say they are. His clip. How can I know this is you really in the picture? Yes sir, so on the there, she's the nurse, he's the attorney, we all met in Belgium.

What you if you recall is where we met for the first time. As well as Washington last summer at the BEF March. I'll tell you one thing that I can remember quite clearly. You did something that you sang a song, I believe. Which one? Well that's for you to remember. I met thousands of people. You did something that you sang a song, I believe. Which one? Well, that's for you to remember. I've met thousands of people.

You just met me twice. So you should remember the song. I like you to sing it now, then I'll know it's you. Did you ever sing a dream? A dream? Walking. Walking. That's it.

Did you ever sing a dream? Right. And then I did. Oh, no, that's not it. It is. They do go on and... They do go on and then do the right one. There's also a covert cabal of businessmen who are trying to get a guild dilemma because, well,

to front their nefarious activities. Romney Malik and Ann Yotela Joy are Libyan Tom, who were super keen to meet the general. The cast, which is star-studded in Densom, also includes Chris Rock, Andrew Rosbrook, Zoe Zaldana, Mike Myers doing a variation on the role that Mike Myers played in in Glorious. That's fantastic.

And we saw you in that film doing that thing when you were doing the Brit, just do that again. So, Antena Swift. And Antena Swift, Swiftlyelas Swift, Swiftly. Telas Swift, Swiftly. And yes, I'm without wanting to spoil anything. There are a couple of dramatic turns in the film that are, you go, wow, wow, I really didn't see that coming. And because it's all done in one shot, I really didn't see it coming either. So, in the current climate, a film about a conspiratorial business cohort attempting to destabilise an overthrow a democratically elected government, a film the recurrent line of which is to make

sure you don't follow the wrong god home, and which another key line is about history, the dream repeats itself because it forgets itself, set between two world wars in which the specter of the first world war which was the war to end all wars turns out not to be true because history is repeated by those who forget it. In that context you go, well I'm on board, I am so on board because this is a film that's absolutely dealing with stuff that you know that I'm interested in right now, this moment. What's weird is that Amsterdam, which is called Amsterdam because Amsterdam, as you mentioned last week, is the place where our central characters are together and it's the good part of

the story. In terms of history repeating itself, there are cycles of good and bad, war and peace. And Amsterdam is this kind of, it's the place where the good part happens. That description that I just gave you, I think is a lot more coherent than the film itself, which is a kind of very zany, tragic, comic caper, which pinballs all over the place as it sort of careens between tragedy and comedy, between history and satire, between politics and ephemera. The performances are all very manored, very bug-eyed, lots of wide angle close-ups, you know, emphasizing the kind of, you know, the sort of slightly off-kilter

nature of the story, making it almost like a almost like almost like a horror film overcranked psychodrama, I mean relating, I suppose, somewhat to what I was saying about blonde. Christian Bales' performance is somewhere between Peter Falk as Colombo, which is you said, right down to the glass I high. I think actually you can hear it in that. It's a very hesitant and one other thing. One other thing, if the FBI planted the documents, why do you want them back? That kind of thing. That kind of thing.

And also, John Tutura's Barton think, because there's that weird thing with the hair and the general kind of manner, which absolutely vote Barton think for me. The cinematography is used by Emmanuel Lübeski, who is an incredible cinematographer. He's really impressively fluid. I mean, there are some scenes that are all concentrated in a way which is quite breathtaking. If you saw them in outer space, you'd go, wow, you know, that, but because it's happening in this very well-period

design, the setting is, I think, extremely well-evoked. It's the production design is beautiful. And the camera sort of moves through these long extended shots in a way that every now and then you catch yourself thinking, oh, well, that's really impressive. But the fact that you notice it, perhaps suggests that what you're getting towards is a kind of triumph of style over substance. The problem for me is that there's so much going on that you, it's about, you're about

halfway through the film before you really find out what the film's about. And when you do find out what the film's about, there's still a whole bunch of other stuff going on that you kind of want to push to the sides and go, hang on, hang on, hang on, that's the film that I want now. In that interview that you did with Christian Bale, he said an interesting thing. He said that David O'Rossal had 12 scripts

and could have made 12 different films. Yeah, because he said it was a very leisurely way. They put this together. Yeah, for a long period of time. Didn't you think that he did end up making 12 different films and then just bolted them all together to make one? There's two or three films in the least. There's at least two or three films going on at the same time.

Now, okay, but because of that, there are going to be things in there that you will like and will admire and will enjoy. So there are 12 films in there. I like three of them. I, I, I kind of agree with most of that, but there was so much to enjoy. Yeah, there is. I enjoyed it. I think I enjoyed it more than you because there is certainly a point where you go, oh, it's going to be that movie and that oddly topical stuff that you were talking about is definitely there, where it's a little bit of a message coming through. But there is from Peter Felt's performance, Peter Felt, Christian Bail, Christian Bail, the world top.

Peter Felt is playing Christian Bail in this movie. I came out having had a really good time. You know, I was just annoyed less by all the things that you were annoyed by. Yeah, that was fun. Anyway, it'd be very interesting to see what people think of it because, like, as you say, and I think, and if you want to listen back

to the Christian Bell interview, he does talk about how it was put together and how there are so many different scripts and all that. And if I can say this, and I'm not just blowing smoke, whatever that may or may not mean, I think it was the best Christian bell interview I've ever heard, because he was smart and engaged and really on it, which I think was great,

because I don't think he's the easiest interview in the world, but he seemed to really have stuff to say. He was easy for me, and I think it's back to our theory. He's a producer on this movie. Yes, it's a passion project. And he had lots to say and in his real voice, which is really awesome. That's the end to take one production management general all-round stuff, Lily Hamley, cameras by Teddy Riley, videos on our tip top YouTube channel, Ryan Amira. Johnny Socials was Jonathan Imiere, studio engineer was J. Biel. Flynn Rodham is the assistant producer. Guest researcher is Sophie Ivan. Hannah Talbot is the producer. The red actor, although he's not

here because apparently the trains wouldn't let him come in. I came in from Southampton. Though if he'd come in maybe overnight and just got a sleeping bag, that would have been fine. There's space on your drive. Simon Paul, that was. anyway Mark. What is your film of the week? Oh Well the lost king next week Emma Mackie and Francis O'Connor will be with us talking about their sort of biopic Emily about Emily Bronte. Thanks very much indeed for listening to this take our Extra takes with a bonus review more with Sally Hawkins and two recommendations even more stuff about the movies and cinema adjacent television, all that will be available on Monday.