Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Sam Mendes, Empire of Light, Enys Men, Tár & M3gan

Episode Date: January 13, 2023

Would Empire of Light have happened if Olivia Colman hadn’t said yes to playing Hilary? Director and writer, Sam Mendes CBE, chats to Simon in this week’s episode as the pair unpack his latest release. Mark reviews psychological horror ‘Enys Men’, set in 1973 on an uninhabited island off the Cornish coast; Cate Blanchett’s new film ‘Tár’ - about the life of composer and conductor, Lydia Tár; ‘M3gan’ - about a robotics engineer at a toy company, who builds a life-like doll that begins to take on a life of its own, as well as Olivia Colman and Sam Mendes’ latest ‘Empire of Light’. Time Codes (relevant only when you are part of the Vanguard): 10:24 Enys Men Review 20:45 Box Office Top 10 31:29 Sam Mendes Interview 46:40 Empire of Light Review 54:05 Laughter Lift 59:42 M3GAN Review 01:04:49 What’s On 01:06:05 Tár Review EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo A Somethin’ Else & Sony Music Entertainment production.    Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts   To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Metrolinx and cross-links are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Cross-town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. Something that's... Yemok, yes I'm happy new year, I'm not that jazz. When's the moratorium on that? Well we've been,

advised from production point of view, the seventh, so we're well past that. Yeah, okay. Well I only saw you for the first time this year last night, so I did say happy new year. No you did. And then I should have offered you some old cider and we could have done a little bit of washaling, but in fact you were slightly sniffier about the fact that I said happy new year.

So are we still doing it? Well, I don't know. It's because I'm not sure because I feel socially awkward. Okay. I thought it was like in the first couple of weeks of January, if you hadn't seen somebody before, you were sort of morally obliged to say happy new year.

Morally abrived. Okay, well, that's just... Morally abrived. Have you done any gigs? No, we're going to Tromso next week. Wow, will there be a love party? There will be it, because there are no love parties. Like a Tromso love party. So the band are playing in Tromso? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're a company city girl and then we're doing a company city girl. What does that mean? The film. Oh, I see. we're playing, we're accompanying you. I thought you were support to it. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome

to the stage. Scandey band. Yeah, so we're accompanying city girl and then we're playing a gig in trumps. It's my second time in trumps, so I will say hello to trumps so from you. Excellent. Well, it's very good to be back.

We're fresh and lovely. And particularly gorgeous and firm. I did have to send you a message saying, are we still on the same arrangement? Can I still arrive? Yes. 930 on the bed pan was in. It was.

Thank you very much. Warming the sheets to your quiet temperature. Yes. Of 26 coffee and chocolate. And it was very nice. Later on in this particular download, yes, what are we going to be doing? Loads of movies through a view, Tar, Megan or M3Gan, it's like Fantfulstick, it's M3Gan. And it's that?

No, it's Megan, but it's written M3Gan because it's an Android thing. Empire of Light, with our very, very special guest. Samendez, and it's his movie. And also Ennis Mayn, which is the new film by Mark Jenkins. Your extra takes include an extra 90 minutes of this. 90 minutes. I mean, it says that here, I don't, have we got 90 minutes?

Wow. More than double, take one. We're just gonna talk slowly. Do you remember when people used to do that about playing the podcast on slow speed, and it sounds like we're drunk? We should do that. Well, it's not to do with us. It was just to do with somebody starting listening and they had the podcast on. More reviews, pretentious. What will be back? Currently, it's the people 7 Mark Kermode 6, but I've seen this week's and I think Mark will score the equalizer. You decide our word of mouth on a podcast

feature, which you get to hear about what's good on streaming services. You can spot us via Apple Podcasts. I head to extra takes.com where if you wish, you can gift a subscription. Gift a subscription. Yeah, because this is the season of gift. There's no halfway through. I thought we were going, because this is the season of GIFTES. There's been no halfway through. I thought we were going to have to do the season of sailing. I don't think so. Anyway, it's the modern day equivalent of a lump of coal, so that's what you can do. And if you're already a van Goddester, as always.

If that doesn't end up on a t-shirt, I will be disappointed. Come under my eyes, take. It's the modern equivalent of a lump of coal. Pod Bible Award. We won, by the way. Oh! Pod Bible awards. Thank you. Thank you to everyone who voted in the Pod Bible awards. We are officially the best film and TV podcast.

Okay. Quote, shall I give you the quote? Yes, go ahead. I guess this is the citation. Excellent. It's a new winner and a new show, but an old pairing that have been reliably among the most downloaded podcast hosts of them all

in the UK. When Mark Kermit and Saname left the BBC earlier this year, we didn't have to wait long for Kermit and Mayors take to fill the gap. Just a legally, just a legally relevant period of time. Yes, that's right, as contractually required. The show is reassuringly familiar. But that should go on the t-shirt. But the fresh format brought their takes on

film and television to new listeners. I think that was written by Simon Paul, our production team. But anyway, it wasn't. We are officially the best film and TV podcast. Thank you to everyone at Pob Bible and the followers of that esteemed organ. And thanks for the award. Do we actually get something? Is there a trophy? Apparently there is no there is we can fall out over who gets to have it on their piano. We can put it on the space in the table. Actually yes.

In fact, we've got we've we've got some trophies already that I know are here in the office that we haven't hung up on the walls. You know, the discs and the the wassernames, yeah. Um, dear prisoner of the gutters and large Vognirian mother, this is from Karl. Okay. Literally, this is a high-brow start. Literally as before I heard last weeks,

old habits die hard revelation on your show. This was in last week's show. I missed this as we were off. I had learned another similarly gobsmacking film title fact, which was that the title of my fair lady came from a line of script which never made it into the final cut. So the diehard revelation apparently was that John McClain can't just be off duty joining the other hostages and leaving the police work to the LAPD out. So he has to help stop the bad guys to save the day because old habits die hard. Right.

So they get which I actually didn't know. So that's why this show is what it is. So my fair lady came from a line of script which never made it to the final cut. That line spoken by Eliza Doe Little to Colonel Pickering was apparently, oh, I ain't no May Fair lady. But of course in her gutter snipe accent accent, May Fair Lady becomes My Fair Lady and a rather obscure title suddenly makes more sense. That's interesting.

I'd never even occurred to me to query the title. But then of course you think, yes, My Fair Lady is a slightly un, but it's a May Fair Lady and that's where it comes from. Very good. Keep up the good work, says Carl, and keep down the Nazis, which is our role. That's what we do. Do you remember the title of the novel that die hard was based on?

No. Nothing lasts forever. I think die hard is about a title. Do you know the title of the two novels upon which the Tarrang Inferno was based? You know when you asked me questions, the answer was always no. So the Tarrang Inferno was based on two novels,

one of which was called the Tower, and the other of which was called the Glass Inferno. But you were close, yes. Okay, very good. An email from the masked listener, Dear Mask presenter and Mask contributor, long-time heritage listener, first time emailer. I have come close to emailing many times in the past, but never suspected I would finally be prompted to get in touch by ITV's bonkers Saturday night light entertainment show, The Masked Singer. I haven't seen it. I've heard of it, but I haven't seen it.

I realize this hardly qualifies as film adjacent television, unless you consider the whole thing a jello-influenced hallucination. Yeah, well that's fair with me, unless I'm mistaken of which there is an admittedly high chance. Regular listeners might want to keep an eye on future episodes. Okay. In particular, the character Phoenix. Okay.

Phoenix. So those unfamiliar with the concept of the mass singer, you lucky people, that's... Do you know why I did Phoenix? Are that because he's found with a parallel to the character? Anyway, Carol, thank you. A panel of celebrity judges have to identify a series of famous people whose identities are all hidden beneath outlandish some might say nightmare-ish costumes as they belt out a

series of tunes. The true identity of the contestants is kept in utmost secrecy until they are eliminated and unmasked to much fanfare weak by weak. Does it turn out to be famous people? Does it turn out to be just famous people? Right, okay. Phoenix made his day- Phoenix. In last week's series opener and during his introductory VT, something seemed vaguely familiar. A fruity-voiced, actively-type, swanning around a country mansion with definite Harry Potter vibes

and an era of gravitas, despite being dressed as an eight-foot flaming turkey. I was struggling to put a finger on who this could possibly be when the following cryptic clue came up. I'm all flame and fire, my feathers are blaze, it may intrigue you to learn, I've been a catchphrase. A popular actor says the email whose name appears in a catchphrase, surely not. A rewatch yielded further clues. A suggestion he has played a TV detective, Jackson Brody maybe, and has experience with reincarnation. The OA maybe, all the clues seem to fit. Assuming Mr. Isaacs can actually sing that is.

Oh, he can. Maybe Mark can set shed some light on this. Okay, well, I have no inside knowledge of this because I actually haven't, firstly, I haven't seen the program and secondly, I haven't communicated with Jason in a couple of months. Okay, he can sing. To the best of my knowledge, he can do everything. Okay.

I mean, I'm sure he can sing. He can do everything. A sectioning question can be seen around the 50-minute mark on episode one on ITVX player. Okay. If anyone else can tell me, I'm not going crazy. Please do not use my real name to avoid shame and humiliation. Lesson weeks to come, I'm proven right and can lay claim to be the first to say hello to Mr Phoenix. Well, yours in befuddlement, the master listed. Well, this would be genuinely

amazing and fabulous. It wouldn't be amazables. I think, why don't you mess it in the break in the break when we go to the ads unless you're a Vanguard Eastern which you know time and let's message Jason and say are you the thing and then we won't obviously we'll keep the secret Wow indeed if you want to get in touch if you have had similar thoughts to our masked listener, you can get in touch. What is our email? Correspondent. Correspondent. Correspondent. I almost gave the old BBC address there. I've also given out my home email email before, as you know. So, correspondents are coming. I just want to go, who is John Boros? What's all that about anyway? Yeah, so

exactly right. Anyway, you wanted at least four minutes to discuss this next movie. So I've given you seven. Thank you. When you say four, you mean seven. I mean seven. And this main is the new film by Mark Jenkins. Who might spell that?

Okay, so it's spelled N.S. Men. So ENYS, M-E-N. It's pronounced N.S. Maine, Maine being the derivation of the word, many is stone. So N.S. Maine, Maine being the derivation of the word many is stone. So, N.S. Maine means stone island, okay? Mark Jenkins made bait. If you remember, he did this on clockwork camera, black and white, that he then developed himself in his studio and Newlin and all the sound was post-synced afterwards. Bate went on to become this really sensational success,

you know, one terrific award, did fabulously well at the box office, considering it cost absolutely nothing at all. Now I'm BFI player. Anyway, so this is Mark's next film in colour, but the same principle, clockwork camera, all sound post-sync. The best way of describing it is to say that when Mark was first pitching the film, he wanted to call it, he told this story before, but I'll say it, he said he originally wanted to describe it as a lost Cornish folk horror. And then somebody said to him, well, it's not lost, is it? It's there.

No, it's not lost, but it does look like it might have been, like it looks like a kind of relic from the 1970s that's been a discovered film. Then then wasn't certain about the horror thing because although the trailer is very creepy, it's not really a horror film, it's more of a something with a very unsettling atmosphere to it. So you left with a folk film, which doesn't really mean anything at all. So he ended up with the description of a Cornish film. And actually, I think a Cornish film is probably the best you can get to a description of it. It's very little point in attempting to describe it in terms of plot, but essentially, Mary Woodvine, who is in bait, is a volunteer on an island off the coast of Cornwall in 1973.

The island is uninhabited and she is there and she has a daily ritual, which is that she walks the cliffs. She takes temperature readings in the ground among a rare outcropper flowers, very rare outcropper flowers. She walks back home, she drops a stone down a mine shaft and she listens to it full. She goes back to the cottage that she lives. She starts up the generator, which is running short on fuel.

She makes tea, she's running short on tea, she's waiting for supplies to come in. Her only real connection with the outside world is through radios, whether it's a transmitter or through a transistor radio. And then at night, she reads this book, which is a book from the 1970s called A Blue Print for Survival, which has got a thing on the front cover of it, which is, it's a quote about the book, which says, after reading this book, nothing will seem the same anymore. And I think the same could be said of the film. Then what happens is that past, present, and future

all start to intertwine, all in the shadow of this standing stone, you know, the main, the stone of the title. Standing stones as anyone who's interested in sort of, you know, folklore and all kinds of, you know, are very, very powerful images of the past and they're often thought to be, you know, kind of almost living, breathing entities. And the standing stone is there looking out to see and there are stories of tragedies at the seas and loss at sea. There's all this stuff going on under the ground, which is the history of mining. And then there is the world that

she's living in in which past, present and future all seem to be colliding. I'm going to play you a clip which I think gives you a sense of the atmosphere. Here is a clip from Ennis Mayne. Do you like it here on your own? I'm sorry. You really needed the visuals on that, I think. That's one of the few scenes in which there is somebody else in the visuals, I think. You do. That's one of the few scenes in which there is somebody else in the scene, whether that's Ed Rowe, who's coming to bring supplies. But most of the time, she's on her own. But as she says, I'm not on my own. When I first saw this, I was so overwhelmed by the atmosphere of it that I was kind of, sort of almost unable to describe

what the film had felt like immediately after. I saw it in Newly, actually, which of course is rather wonderful because obviously it's, as I said that thing about it's a Cornish film and so much of it is to do with the landscape. It's been described by somebody, so as they said, it's a love letter to the landscape and that is true, but it's a very unsettling and yet somehow incredibly

vibrant portrait of a land, a land built on industry and built on a relationship between the land and the sea in which characters seem to be living in an entire thriving history. Now on one level, it's a horror-inflected movie. When people talk about folk horror, you tend to think of things like the unholy trilogy of British folk horror, which is Blood on Satan's Claw and Wikimena, which find a general. But folk horror is a much more international thing.

And folk horror really comes down to any story that is absolutely rooted in the landscape from which the story comes and is rooted in the tradition from which the story comes. You know, I've said before this thing about the more you get into the detail of something, the more universal it makes it, the way to make a story universal isn't to include a whole bunch of stuff which everyone will recognize, but it's basically the more detail you get into, the more you think, okay, this is real, this is authentic, therefore I believe in it. In the case of this, I think that firstly, I think Mark Jenkins is genuinely a cinematic artist and my breath was taken away by Ennis Maine. I've now seen it three times. I'm still not quite sure what's going on. I have

some ideas about what it's about. Mark Jenkins solidly refuses to explain the film and quite rightly so because what he wants you to do is to respond to it on a very kind of fundamental sort of emotional level to feel it rather than to to to analyze it. It's it looks extraordinary. The color is wonderful. The reds and the yellows, which are actually a key plot point are just a thriving and brilliant. Mary Woodvine is mesmerising, I mean, it's a performance, a lot of which there is very, very little dialogue. It's all to do with watching her face, watching the way that she reacts, watching the way that she watches the landscape around her, and understanding from that what's going on in her head and in the world around her.

It has some brilliant use of music. There's a, they use a Brenda Witten and the Fallen Male voice, Fallen Male voice, voice choir singing the Bristol Christ, which is incredibly profound. There's a BFI season on called the Cinematic DNA of Ennis Mayne, which has got all these things like long weekend and hauntes of the deep and stigma, which are all things that kind of Mark Jenkins is referring to, many of them, from the 1970s. But it is a film in and of itself that is unlike anything else. I genuinely think he's an artist. I cannot explain to you why is the Ennis Mayne has got

under my skin quite so much. And I am willing to accept that it is a personal thing. You either get this or you don't. It got me on a genetic level. I think it's like a dream of a movie and I think, you know, following up bait was always going to be a hard call, but this is just next level Wonderful. It's one of my favorite films of the year and it's only January. Okay, so that's quite so yes Okay, I but what I think what you mean is it's likely to be one of your favorite movies of the year of the year Even if we spoke in December, but the thing I would say to everybody is What you have to do is you have to go in with an open mind. You have to, you have to let the film cast its spell, hopefully to sit him on the, hopefully it'll sit him on the, well there's the movie of the week.

So there you go. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Later though, maybe there'll be other candidates. Yeah, there's other stuff. Like, you know, there's tar, which of course has got, you know, a, a, a cake blancheette. There's an old way which has got Nick Cage and there is Empire of Light. With our guest, Sam Mendes, you'll hear from him later,

time for the ads unless you're in the Vanguard, in which case we'll be back before you can say Philippe Senderos. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Happy Nord Christmas! Protect yourself whilst Christmas shopping online and access all the Christmas films from around the globe.

Plus, when you shop online you'll have to give websites your card details and other sensitive data like your personal addresses. Those websites should already have their own encryption built into their payment systems, but to be on the safe side you can use a VPN to ensure that all data coming to and from your device is encrypted. Even if you're using an unsafe Wi-Fi, you'll still be able to shop securely with a VPN. And you can access Christmas films only available overseas by using streaming services not available in the UK. To take our huge discount of your Nord VPN plan, go to NordVPN.com slash take. Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two-year plan.

There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money bank guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box. Highest in podcast listeners, Simon Mayo. I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal Drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the show Edith Bowman hosts this one.

Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns Queen Elizabeth in Mel Distant. Other guests on the new series include the Crowns research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as Voice Coach William Connaker and propsmaster Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selim Dor, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth the Bikki. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching the Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the Crown, the official podcast first on November 16th. Available, wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating

great cinema from around the globe. From my connect directors to emerging oturs, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karri's Mackey film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize at CAN, that's in cinemas at the moment. And if you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karri's Mackey, you can go to Mooby the streaming service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrically releasing In January Priscilla, which is a new for a couple of films, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession.

You could try Mooby Free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I dot com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. And we're back. Did I tell you how much I love in this main? Did I make it clear how much I loved it? Yeah. Your four minutes was seven. It seemed like not.

I'm sorry, but I'm sorry. No, but you know, that's what, you know, if it's going to be super top movie, then give it a super top space. Yeah, okay. Recent streamers, correspond as John Payne in Sterling, Virginia, on the subject of white noise. I'm late to the party thanks to a recent surgery, but I absolutely love white noise. Perhaps I'm delirious from pain-killing non-contact, but I found it to be creative, lyrical,

and gloriously bonkers. I was surprised, Mark, found it insufferable. I really enjoyed the stilted delivery of the lines as though read from a novel. As Mark said said that was obviously a deliberate choice. The final scene in the Supermarket. I just said it, I didn't say it was deliberate, I said one could argue that it might be a deliberate choice,

but I didn't think it was. The final scene in the Supermarket was worth the price for admission alone as well as credit goings, 80s hairdo. Thank the movie Gods for Noah, Boundback and Wes Anderson and co. May they make many more films as nutty as this one. Well, may we begin 2023 by saying, as always, you know, other opinions are available,

and you know what, that's a good thing. How have I changed over the years? Well, we'll find out. Okay. Piggy discussed it. Kevin Morris, great choice in placing a very real moral dilemma at the heart of a serial killer thriller makes you think about how you'd react in a similar situation for just a tick longer than you'd imagined possible even though the answer should be immediately obvious. Box office top 10 at 10, the amazing Maurice, which I haven't seen. Sorry, that was off 10 weeks. After Sun is at number 9.

My favourite film of 2022. James from Serboton, remove your titles that take you a while to get. Here is a recent entry with Afterson, very different from Die Hard. The obvious thing is, the reference to the previous conversation about the title of Die Hard. The obvious thing is that in the film there are scenes where we see Calum and Sophie put Afterson on each other, which itself symbolizes them caring for each other. But having seen the film four times and thought about it a lot, probably too much says James

in Servaton. I think it's also about the process of healing. Yes. When you're playing in the sun and having fun, you're not always aware of the damage and hurt in the moment and you can only try to heal afterwards. I think this is what present day Sophie is doing by watching the tape coming to terms with the past which may not be as happy and perfect as you remember it.

That's how I read it. Maybe I've thought about this film too much and I'm just making this all up but I think it makes sense. No, that's how I read it. But I think it is brilliantly elusive. It can mean whatever you want. Like Ennis Mayne. James, thank you.

The menus at eight. Not as good as NSMane. Number seven is Strange World. All to do with the design, which isn't as good as NSMane. Number five in the state's number six here, black Panther, we can for ever. No, tell me. Well, we managed to get another 40 minutes in.

We still didn't finish it, which we mean, which is the long, by the time you were finished watching this, it will have been going over three months. Yes. Seriously, Leo. Sorry about that. Number five, here is Till.

Great Central Performance by Daniel Deadweiler, who I think has got a shot at a NOSCA nomination. She's certainly in the sort of variety, you know, outside possibilities. It's a very powerful telling of a very important story by Chinoid Chukwu, who also, as you remember, made clemency, which I absolutely loved. Harvey Dean says, I thought Kate Blanchett had becked best actress in the bag for tar at the next Oscars, but if there's any justice in the world, they won't bother with any other nominees and just give the award straight to Daniel Dippo. Her performance is great. And what's great about it is how understated it is. A couple of emails about a man called Otto.

Yes. I hope you managed to catch the Tom Hanks interview which came out in the kind of interim period between Christmas and New Year, but another fantastic conversation with him, Amariana Trevino, who is his co-star in this film. An email from Charlie, who says he lives in Narnia, and just so that you know there are conversations, there's a lot of suicide references in this conversation, as there are indeed in a man called Otto. So Charlie says, I've just got back

from a Sunday evening screening of a man called Otto at my local world of Sinny, and I can't remember the last film I had such a visceral reaction to. I am a 28-year-old man, and for as long as I can remember, I have struggled with suicidal ideation, the process of forming ideas. Over the years, this has taken different forms, from merely thinking about suicide, to actively not wanting to be alive anymore. I've gone through rounds of therapy, CBT and recently medication, in an attempt to rid myself of these thought processes, with mixed success. In truth, part of me has never wanted to, in quotes, get better.

A stranger's it might sound. To me, it has always felt like a safety blanket knowing that one day I could just choose to end it all if I wanted to. I was worried that a man-called Otto might be too saccharine and schmaltzy, but I need to be. What I was not prepared for was sitting in that dark room, clasping onto my wife's hand with tears streaming down my cheeks, having the revelation that I don't want to feel like this anymore. For the first time in my life, I want to face life without this distorted,

in quotes, safety blanket I want to live. You often say on the show that cinema is a machine for generating empathy. Well, this film has generated the desire for life within me. I know most people have a very different reaction to this picture to me, but I can't remember the last time I saw such a beautiful film on screen. Thank you to Tom Hanks, Mariana Trevino, and the makers of this wonderful film and to you for your ongoing winterings, up with a fulfilling life and down with desperation.

Isn't that extraordinary? I think if you make movies, you can only hope that anything that you do would ever have that kind of reaction among. And I think if one thing you do has that film in relation to that, but also about the power of cinema to, you know, to transport and transform people. Absolutely. And yeah, what a wonderful letter. Charlie, thank you very much for the email.

And might be worth repeating as you said before, the Samaritans number is 116123. 116123. But Charlie, thank you. Correspondents at Curmanaew.com. Roll Dahl's Matilda, the musical, is it number three? It continues to entrance. Yes. And number two here, six in the States.

Whitney Houston, I want to dance for some time. Which I actually thought was much better than I had expected. I had heard sort of sniffy things in advance, but I rather enjoyed it. And number one, and as we've said before, here we go. expected I had heard sort of sniffy things in advance but I I I rather enjoyed it. And number one and as we've said before, here we go, very number one, very number one, it's not even close avatar way of water, Adam Lightfoot. When Avatar was released in 2009, it was the perfect demonstration of what 3D cinema could do. It's interesting for about five minutes then you realise how dark the picture is and the effect is just a cheap gimmick. What the first movie had going for it was the novelty of seeing this world for the first

time, and a story which while drawing on a wealth of tropes, cliches and downright ripoffs was enough to pass the time. 13 years later, James Cameron invises to return to Pandora, and my question is why? I have no desire to return to this world. I got enough of it the first time round. The story in the way of water is again a harsh, sorry, a hash of tired plot beats, which felt more at home in a soap opera, soap opera than an epic fantasy movie, and at a mammoth three hours and twelve minutes, it soon becomes a test of endurance, rather than entertainment. And Adam concludes, it's making its millions, or should that be billions, so there'll be three, four and five, but I'd be perfectly happy to give any future installments a miss. Greg in Oxfordshire,

I just left a screening of Avatar the Way of Water and thought I'd check in and listen to Mark's review. I'm afraid I could not disagree more with your analysis Mark. I saw Avatar in 3D at my local iMacs. It was the first time Donning the Specs since 2009. I did so because this is the way the director intended and it did not disappoint. The movie is not only a visually stunning masterpiece but an emotionally heart-wrenching, had me in tears fight for a family's survival.

Perhaps Mark went into the cinema with a different pair of glasses on. Things Mark missed. Sully leaves the forest because his family are at risk. His family have to fit in much as he did in the first movie. He risks that. The sea contains a far more valuable resource than an Obtainium, the way of the water, the way of the tribe and allegory,

to the Sully family finding their way, but ultimately the story is about Jake finding his way from being a runner to being a fighter. I thought you would have seen that. Maybe this is another AI artificial intelligence moment. Yours, loving the show, Greg, in Oxfordshire. Just before Mark continues, I don't know if, did you see the quotes from Guillermo del Toro?

I know that Guillermo loved it and he said, when was the last time Sonomone was this extraordinary or something? Well, actually, I mean, this is, he said, it's technically and artistically so complicated and complex and beautiful. If you told me I had to shoot one of the final sequences in the movie or lose my life,

I would start to arrange for a coffin because it's incredibly flabbergasting. What happened to me was when I was watching it, I realized how long it's been since I saw a movie, like a giant, proper, powerful movie that entertains, moves me and shows me visuals that I couldn't even dream of. Well, look, I love Guillermo and I love you know, and I love his films and I love how

generous he is and I don't agree with any of it. I, I, he's the thing with, with the Avatar Wave Water. At the moment, the box office is just over 1.7 billion internationally. James Cameron said that the movie has to take 2 billion to break even and it looks like it's on course to do it. So the, the first thing to say is, I mean, this sheer huts part, I've actually telling people in advance that your film has to take two billion or it will lose money and then looking like you're going to do it is extraordinary. And we've had so many emails from people who have had very profound and enthusiastic

responses to the film. That's great. I'm much closer to the Robbie Colin thing. Robbie Colin used his phrase that I love. I mean, Robbie has a beautiful turn of phrase, but he said watching it was like being water-borded with turquoise cement. And I completely agree. I mean, I thought it was unbelievably boring and fatuous and dull and ugly.

But what we come back to is this. The extraordinary thing about cinema is that it can provoke so many different responses. So we had an enthusiastic defense of white noise. And we've had many enthusiastic responses to avatar. And one, you read out that was obviously on the same page as the being water-boded with turquoise cement. And I am certain that next week we'll have some letters

when people say, I went to see any Smain. I've got no idea what you're talking about, I had no idea what was going on, it was about a woman walking around on an island and some flowers and what was going on with the stone. I think that this is what, this is the whole point of all of this and I'm actually thrilled that the movie is done so well because it's good for cinema and I know enough cinema managers who are relieved that they are playing the film to pack houses. Incidentally, in Cornwall, in Cornish Cinemas, the NSMAME previews have been outperforming Avatar Way of Water, which

was a big Cornish news story. But look, that's great. I'm genuinely thrilled that people say, I couldn't stand it and I would rather pull one of my teeth out than watch it again. But, hey, you know, opinions. Yes. And if I just was worth bringing Guillermo to the table. It really is because Guillermo and I would say, if you were listening to me or Guillermo del Toro and somebody said, which one of those people do you want to take, they would take his,

well, he made Pans Labyrinth, right? I didn't make Pans Labyrinth right I didn't make Pans Labyrinth he did I would say listen to both go and see the movie and make up your mind your mind your so left wing I am absolutely okay so let's bring on our super top guest Sam Mendes the director and writer of Empire of Light you'll hear our conversation after this clip from the movie. Why not? Does it's pointless? You're telling me down the first time?

The study won. Architecture. That would be wonderful. Yeah. You have to try again. Yeah, maybe. You can't just give up. Stephen. And that's a clip from Empire of Light I'm delighted to say that it's director and writer. Sir Sam Mendez is with us. Sam, hello. Good morning. Hi, Simon. How are you? Happy new year to you.

Happy new year to you. On the way to this room where we're recording, when we're recording on the day that the movie opens, or past big curves and down on Sharsprey, have a new Empire of Light. I've been using M.P.A.R.E.B.E. and I've been using M.P.A.R.E.E. and I've been using M.P.A.R.E. and I've been using M.P.A.E. and I've been using M.P.A.E. and I've been using M.P.A.E. and I've been using M.P.A.E. and I've been using M.P.A.

and I've been using M.P.A.E. and I've been using M.P.A.E. and I've been using M.P.A.E. and I've been using M.P.A. and I've been using M.P.A. and I've been using M.P.A.E. and I've been using M.P.A.E. Do you be honest with you, I did not actually know today was the day you were supposed to be opening the expiry. I've ruined it for you. I've opened the factory the night. It's been on all day.

And I can tell you why I feel that way Simon, which is that these days when you've got a smaller movie, it is double the work of the bigger movies and because you have to do this sort of weird rollout thing of going to the festivals and the good festivals are at the beginning of the autumn, but the good time to release a movie is January, now, or December in the US. So you have this long process very drawn out. Went to Tell Your Ride in September,

then to Ronto, then a London Film Festival, then you go to various other festivals. I've been to Stockholm, I've been to Poland, you know, which is great and everything. And then I've got the US release. And so now the UK release, which of course, it's a British movie and it's a UK movie and it's made with less of an eye for a US audience

than I've ever had, I think, for any film I've made. It is odd that it comes right at the end. You finally get to release it in your home country, which of course is very important to me. But yeah, I mean, coming from the theatre where there's any given night they could balls it up. It's always nice coming to movies where pretty much the same thing is projected every night without any change. So I feel, don't feel nervous in that regard. I feel hopeful and I love the movie and you know I'm very happy to talk about it because it's part of the way of saying goodbye to it anyway. So the UK release very important to you is just that you didn't know that today was the day.

Yeah but you know it was actually out in some cinemas a few days ago. I'm being flippant. All right. That thing of like, it being a moment, you know, it's so blurred that moment now that it didn't feel that way to me. But thank you for reminding me. I remember. And we wish you all the best, of course. I think the movie is hard to pin down.

So can you introduce us to this movie and tell us the central points as far as your concern? Well, the spur for the movie was the story of Hillary, who's a character loosely based on my mum. I'm an only child I grew up alone with my mum and she suffered from mental illness and that was the reason I started writing, was to try and unlock some of those memories and tell a story about her. I didn't really want to put myself in the movie, so it's not directly autobiographical,

because I felt that I didn't want it to be about me as a child. And then I, as I started telling the story, I found that I had her working in a sort of rundown cinema on the South Coast of England, where she encounters a young black man who's just left school and is not failed to get into university and is at a loose end, and they begin a relationship. And within that story, that love story, it touches on her mental illness. They're both outsiders of different sorts.

Her mental illness is his outside illness because of the colour of his skin at that time and very racially divisive early 80s stature is Britain. And it uses the cinema as a kind of place of escape for both of them and a place of healing for both of them. And I'm aware that it takes on that a bunch of stuff to be putting in a two hour movie. But as a writer, which is new to me, And I'm aware that it takes on that a bunch of stuff to be putting in a two hour movie.

But as a writer, which is new to me, relatively new to me, it's difficult to be strategic. You respond to what bubbles up from inside. Not every movie I make is going to be written by me. And it was just something that came during lockdown, during a period of intense reflection for all of us, the things from the past that I wanted to talk about, and some of the things that we were living through in lockdown are reflected, therefore, in the movie. The upsurge in mental health issues, the big racial reckoning in the world around Black Lives Matter, and the death of the cinemas, which is something we were all worried was

gone forever, and is still frankly struggling. About 30 seconds ago, you said when you were all worried was gone forever, and it's still frankly struggling. About 30 seconds ago, you said when you were talking about Hillary's character, the Olivia Coleman's character, I found that she was working in a cinema, a rundown cinema on the South Coast. I found that it was quite interesting where, so this is you on your own writing this character. Did it just occur to you, because your mum didn't work in a cinema? No, no. Did it just feel like a natural place for her to be?

I felt like it was something that could be a crossroads between different people's lives. And I also wanted to write about two lonely people, or relatively certainly in her case, very lonely, who found an ad hoc family, which is my experience of the theater and of cinema. The families that I found were not biological families. They were eccentric families put together by us, you know, with a bunch of people who didn't quite fit in anywhere else. And so that's what I wrote towards, I suppose. But it was instinctive, you know, I didn't,

I didn't really sort of, there are some movies you kind of decide to do in a strategic part of your brain things. Well, I could probably get something personal into this, but I understand it's a genre movie, and it needs me to build a whole new set of muscles and skills that would be bond. And there are some movies that feel, you feel compelled to do,

and you don't really entirely understand the reasons for that. And that was, this was one of those where it just felt like something in me needed to express these things and I'm very fortunate to be able to use a large canvas to do that. On it won't be this case for every movie but for this one it felt like it was something I needed to do. The way you talk about this film reminds me a bit of the way Ken Branagh was talking about Belfast because he was saying I felt compelled to write this film. And I thought there was quite an interesting choice of language. And I wondered if you would, would you have written this book, did you have an idea to write this story without pandemic? Do you think you'd have got here without COVID? That's a very good question. No, I don't think I would actually.

I think I wouldn't have allowed myself the time of reflection and I wouldn't have been left to my own devices to the point where I mean my I think I may have said this to you one we were talking about 1917 which is that my laptop is full of unfinished, you know, sci-fi project, unfinished western project or whatever, you know, just ideas or thoughts or and it might well have been an unfinished project, an unfinished file on my laptop. And I think it gave me the time, number one, and it also gave voice to some of the fears, some of the things that we were thinking about during that time. So I think it was in some way promoted by that. And you could argue, I suppose, that the sort of upsurge in, you know, sort of pseudo-autobiographical films that

have happened in this last sort of two years, you know, you could put it down to that somewhat. I remember talking to Stephen Spielberg in the middle of the pandemic about something totally different. And he'd said, this has given me the time to write the movie that I always wanted to write about my own history. And so perhaps the two are linked. I asked this question to Maggie Gyllenhaal when we were talking about the Lost Orte. And it sounds like a dove question. It sounded then, d'arthed, and it sounds d'arthed now. Why Olivia Coleman? Because obviously she's an extraordinary actor. And when people see the movie,

I think they won't be able to imagine anyone else playing Hillary. At what point did she arrive in your thoughts? I started writing without anyone in mind. And then about a third of the way through, I saw her on Tally in the crown. And I thought, oh, that's who should play Hillary. And then I started unconsciously writing it for her, I think. And then I reached a bit of an ampass on halfway

through and I ended up, because I didn't know her. I never met her. I thought I should probably call her and see if it can get unlocked, you know. And just say, hi, I'm writing this thing for you, you know, does it sound alright to you? She was delightful and we had a very nice chat, but it did actually get me going again. And so by the end, you stalled in the project. I had, yeah, yeah, I didn't know where to take the story. And but by the end, I think had she then not wanted to do it. I don't, I'm not even sure I would have done the movie at all because it felt so much

for her that I couldn't imagine anyone else doing it. But there's something about, you know, I said the other day about her that she's like a Ferrari dressed as a mini, you know. She doesn't, she's not really good at talking about process, but she's like a blowtorch, you know, when you say action, this other person emerges. And in that respect, she reminds me of somebody

like Judy Dench, is that she has this ability to go there from a standing start to express something that's in her that is not expressed in her daily life at all. So, you know, it is a sort of almost like a magic trick when you watch it. So, even though I was set on her doing it, I don't think I was aware of quite the level of skill or charisma that's there under the bonnet of that mini.

How do you directly live your common? You give her a lot of ideas. She doesn't like rehearsing very much. She doesn't wanna talk about it. Well, rather, she doesn't wanna dialogue about it, but she wants you to tell her as much as you've got. Because a lot of this was memory-based, I had a lot of stuff that I could give her to I hoped inspire her or find a way to articulate something that is very difficult to articulate,

which is the nature of bipolar man-in-depression. That's something that I was really determined to dramatize rather than to describe. So for example, when the social worker comes to take her into mental hospital, she fights with every fiber of her being not to go in. But at the same time, she has her bag packed and ready to go. And it's possible in the state of denial that people get into, to not want to leave, to fight, to stay, and yet to know that you need help, and to know that you're going to go. And those two things can be believed absolutely at the same time. I think that was the core of what I was trying to articulate, and one of the reasons why I made the movie in the first place.

Toby Jones is your projectionist, to I think you knew from back in the day. I've known Toby since we were 14 years old, yeah. Toby Jones is your projectionist, so I think you knew from back in the day. I've known Toby since we were 14 years old, yeah. And he was at Abingdon down the road from my school in Oxford, and it's taken us, what's that, 40-odd years to work together, but I've just, you know,

I've been a fan and watched his career. He's grading everything, he's one of those, he really is. I feel like I live here at Colmy. I'm going to watch it because it's got this person in it. Yeah, he's just... Yeah, he's... And he makes it like all the great actors feel so simple. And...

But I really wanted the figure of the projectionist. I mean, you say, I talked about, you know, it appeared whatever however I put it, she worked in a cinema. But it's the same thing with him, you know, I had Stephen arrive, Michael Ward's character and be introduced to the staff. And I thought, oh, there should be a projectionist. So this little fellow Norman popped up. And the more I wrote, the more significant the figure felt to me because he was the gateway

into the cinema. And a time when, as I grew up in the cinema and when I first started making movies, the projectionist was a key figure who felt themselves to be representative of the filmmaker, not of the staff of the theatre. He wasn't anything to do with the staff of the theatre. He was there, if he was projecting Lawrence of Arabia, he was representing David Lean. And it was very important. And that care, the physical weight of film, the fact that you had to check for flaws in it, the fact that you, every 10 minutes, you had to change the real. And the fact that if you were alone in the auditorium, that you knew, even if it was just you in there watching the movie, you knew there was someone up there

in the dark giving you the film, you know, giving it to you personally. That personal touch, that's gone of course. And so there's a certain degree of nostalgia for that. But at the same time, it wasn't, it was a strange life, 16 hours a day in the dark. They didn't have much of a existence. We have lots of listeners questions which we will get to in our second take, but for the moment, Sam Mendes, thank you very much. Thank you. So Mendes is one of those people you could you just know you could talk to for hours has so much and there are so many facets to this film which we didn't get to in the course of the conversation. Some more of it is and indeed the music and the issue about the specials and so on

does come up. Does come up. The issue about the specials and so on, does come up. Does come up. The issue about the specials. Yes, but I had never heard, oh this is very, will be very familiar to you, but I had never heard the projectionist described as, I never thought of it in terms of someone who represents the film company, not part of the cinema staff,

although clearly is part of the cinema staff, but not there to represent the cinema, but there to, on behalf of the filmmakers. And that's why when people talk about, you know, the letter that Stanley Kubrick sent out to all projectionists showing Barry Lyndon, or the letter that was sent out by the producer of women in love to the projectionists, showing that movie and asking for the, you know, softening of clock lights. And, you know, you are the person who is, as many as say quite right,

you're giving them, you're presenting the move, you're the final stage of the presentation. Power of the ship. Yes. Tip of the head to Dave Norris, because obviously, so much of this, for my point of view has come from my conversations with Dave Norris, you know, lost projection is standing about the art of projection. So, shall we discuss the film? Yes, Empire of Light. So, the two things I want to say, the first one, which is a bit odd, which is, whilst I was watching Empire of Light, the film I was thinking of is a way we go, which is the San Melis film from 2009, with John Krasinski and My Rudolph,

which is a very, very personal and strange little film, about a couple visiting people going to decide where to raise their baby. And it's really what it's just very personal. I don't think many people saw it. I'm not sure it was particularly well received, but I always really liked it. I was thinking about that in terms of this because this is clearly a very personal project. That point that you picked up on when you said, and then he discovered that the character was, which I know from your point of view,

is a writer you're fascinated by the way in which somebody can be writing something and it turns into something almost involuntarily. I think that is both the strength and also the problem with Empire of Light. Empire of Light feels to me like five different films. Now that's not necessarily a bad thing, but what it means is that there is a lot of stuff going on, and some of it I like and some of it not so much.

On the one hand it is, as he was saying, a very personal film about his mother and her own personal struggles. On the second hand, it is, I know that it's not cinema parody, but there is the projection that's presenting the movie. There is that whole side of it, the love of cinema, the Terence Davis looking up at the beam of light and seeing the thing projected, which we also saw in Kenneth Branagh's bell fast. And it is interesting seeing filmmakers making films about the way in which films affect you

when you're, you know, at a certain point in your life. And it's very interesting, I think, I don't know whether you noticed this, but when they go into the projection booth, there's almost like churchy music. There's almost like the sound of an organ. And that thing when Toby says, belt straps, pulley, sockets,

the spark between the carbons makes the light and nothing happens without light. And then he does the thing about the static frames with darkness in between the five phenomenon, an illusion of motion, the illusion of life, that little beam of light, it's an escape. Well, that's, I mean, honestly, that's where we live, right? That's, that's kind of a pricy of the discussion that you and I have been having for pretty much 20 years. There's also a touch of Goodluck's Leo Grand, which is the Emma Thompson, because again, it's the same thing about an older woman, younger man, having a relationship in which he's, I mean, obviously it's completely different in there in that because that's a transactional relationship. But about discovering a certain form of pleasure in an unexpected relationship. There's another film which is about racism,

in fact, it's here, a Britain that's kind of, you know, when you've got the skinheads and the mods going past and the, right, and then all that stuff going on. And then there's another thing in there which is, do you remember that film based on a true story in Wales called Save the Cinema, about the Welsh Cinema getting the Jurassic Park premiere, which then prevents it from pleasure. All these things are going on at the same time and obviously it looks beautiful because it's shot by Rochdyk and so of course it looks beautiful

and there are great performances in it, Olivia Coleman. Yeah, I love that phrase, what was it? A Ferrari dresser's a mini. Toby Jones, I mean when has he ever been anything other than spot on? The issue then is how much all of that coheres and I think my issue is I don't know that it all does. I don't know that it's not too many movies playing at the same time. It's to stretch the cinema metaphor. It's like being in a multiplex and watching all five films all at the same time. That isn't to say that I don't like those films because I do. Honestly, I could have watched the film about Toby Jones running the projection box and just that on its own.

But I think in that way that when he said, and then I discovered that she was a projectionist, and then he was a projectionist, he was a projectionist, probably. No, then I discovered that she was a projectionist and then he was a projection. He was a projectionist probably. No, then I discovered that she worked in a cinema. You could hear him describing how it had organically become, what it had become. And that kind of explains a lot because it's not like it was a film that began life as a through line. It's a film that began life here and then then it went there, and then it went there,

and then it went there, and I thought the discussion about it happening in lockdown. I went, right, that does explain a lot, because it is a film that you can see growing through isolated contemplation. And he said he without lockdown, he would not have written this story because he wouldn't have had that time to think. Do you share any of what I've said?

Yes, I did. I mean, first of all, I enjoyed the film. Yes, I would encourage me to have headlight on that. I would say go and see Empire of like, I think it's very enjoyable. Some incredible performances, of course, from actors who you love. And as you said, it looks absolutely beautiful. I think my reticence was I didn't quite by the relationship between Olivia Coleman and Michael Ward. I wasn't quite convinced. No, why would agree with that? About it. It feels like a contrivance. About that. And I'm aware listening back to the interview that the issue of the racial

assault and the skinhead gangs didn't really become part of the conversation, which I had intended to, but there is so much to discuss, because I think mental illness is what it's about. It's just that there are all those other things that are happening at the same time. I was thinking in a number of years time there will be a book to be written or something to be made about the pandemic's influence on storytelling. Because this is, I mean, so many glass onion is part of it, Empire of Light is part of it, the Fableman's. And this main is part of it.

Okay, and it's made during lockdown. And I think we're not really at that point where that can be written yet, but it was such profound experience for literally everybody that its impact on the way stories are told, films are made, it's going to last for a long time. Yeah, and we'll be figuring it out for a very long time. Sam Mendes will return in take to nicely done. Yeah, nicely done. Because we have some listeners questions to him. Plus, I am tormented by the issue of

Do Nothing by the Specials. Did I mention this on the show before? Was it just the year? I don't know, you said it. I heard it. I don't know whether anyone else said it. So the issue in my mind was, it's a beautiful scene where Michael Ward's character takes out a copy of his new favourite record, which is a seven inch single of Do Nothing by the Specials. And when you hear it over the speakers playing in the movie house, it's the album version and not the single version. This is of course just one of those nerdy things that you occasionally pick up on. And I thought, should I mention this?

And as I think you're going to hear it in take two, if you're a vacuities, he's like a sneak preview. My wife said, why would you, why would you spoil the interview by telling Sam and his that he's got something wrong? Anyway, you can find out how that situation revolves a little bit later on. Anyway, Emperor of Light, and when you get to see it, please do let us know what you think, because there's lots to discuss about that. It really is. Correspondence. All five of it.

Correspondence at CurmanAmea.com. The ad's in a moment, Mark, but first, I'm delighted to say it's time to move again into the laughter lift. First one of the year. Yes, and what an eye choice. What an eye choice. And here we are in the very entertaining laughter lift. Mark how was it? How was it? It was a couple of weeks. Mine was a little mixed I have to say. At Shea Mayo we had a few relatives over including the very annoying young

cousin Cecil who was born in 2018, Mark. Isn't that astonishing? We can now actually talk to people, born in 2018. Still he's very behind in his schoolwork. He doesn't even know how to say please in Spanish. That's poor for four, isn't it? Wow, that is good. Wow.

Class, that is poor for four. Wow. Come on. This is where we'll be gilling. Yes. OK. Present wise, I got a durable lightweight, wrinkle resistant and inexpensive zip up polyester top.

That's right, Mark. It was a fleece snavidad. That joke written by the redactors daughter, Iris H9. Good. Very happy to receive work from wherever. I'm sure you know, Mark, good lady ceramicist her indoors has been fan of reptiles. I got her a snake that's exactly 3.1 meters long. It's a pie thon. P.I.

That's in pie of the mathematical concept. Yeah. Okay. But that wasn't the only reptile related. I'm still getting over port for four. I think that's great. People will be using that. Well, that wasn't the only reptile related gift I wanted by her.

I had a very strange conversation in our local bookshop before Christmas. I said to the shop assistant, do you have any books on turtles? She said hard back. I said, yes, then the fellas. It was in the little heads, putting it in the back. In the front. Okay, thank you. You can use that one as well.

It's a bacon, lean. Anyway, what do we got still to come up? We have reviews of M3Gan or Megan, as we're calling it, and tar, with the accent. Tar. We'll be back after this unless you're a Van Gogh decent, in which case your service will not be interrupted. With banking packages from Scotia Bank, you can put money back in your pocket. That's how Marcus was able to invest in everything he needed to launch his podcast about his pets.

Welcome back to PetGasd. Visit ScotiaBank.com slash welcome offer. Scotia Bank conditions apply. So now, before we back off, yeah, we are. Before we, I thought it was going to be obvious. Anyway, we're back. The subject of AI and artificial intelligence came up before Christmas, and the thing not the film. Yeah, absolutely not the film.

Not the film. Although it would be interesting, we are hoping to get Stephen Spielberg back on the show very shortly for the Fabelman's. I'm going to apologise to him again. But it's very interesting, you know, the temptation to talk about AI will be very strong based on the fact that now everybody is talking about AI. Including a lot of our correspondence. Henry Wilson,

since you asked for further thoughts on the subject of AI following your experiments with chat, chat GPT, which was the algorithm, the site that we used to write a screenplay. The AI. It's just AI. OK. I'm writing to offer some minor insights. I'm not an AI developer, but I do work as a software engineer, and I keep an eye on developments

in the field since it is increasingly infiltrating many aspects of both my job and wider daily life. I think it's worth noting that while chat GBT is indeed impressive, like most artificial intelligence available at the moment, it is rather misleadingly named. Within the field, this is known as weak AI. In other words, it's not really intelligent at all. It's a clever algorithm which has been crafted to do one thing, write text, and trained on a really large data set, basically the entire internet. Similarly, the AI art tools you may have seen online are not truly intelligent. They can create images based on input, but they're not capable of thought or intellect in any meaningful sense.

Humanity is yet to succeed in creating what is known as strong AI. This is all going to lead very nicely into M3, get intimately. A truly intelligent program, which can actually think rather than just execute a single task with impressive precision. So the question of your jobs then, because obviously this is the nub of everything, I don't think you have to worry yet because the existing algorithms rely entirely on data fed into them.

They are not really capable of invention so much as mimicry. If you ask chat GBT to review a film that already exists in the style of Mark Cermode, which we did before Christmas. It can find examples and regurgitate something that looks fairly convincing, but if you were to ask it to review a new film, which Mark hasn't reviewed and put anything online about. It would be unable to actually appraise the film and would just make a wild guess, probably going extremely positive or extremely negative at random. Unless the AI field takes an unexpectedly huge leap forward,

we are still probably decades away from strong AI, which might actually be capable of taking on jobs currently only accomplishable by humans. Until then, these tools are impressive and interesting, but probably not a threat to your life. Now, I ask a question, Simon Paul, can you ask the artificial intelligence thing for my review of Megan, M3Gan?

Yeah, but you could. So the answer to that is. But when you did it before, you generated something live. You said to it, give me Mark, Mark, but you could. So the answer to that is you did it before you generated something live. You said to it, give me Mark a Markhamard review. I need to say what Simon has just said because yes, sorry, yeah, Simon said no, because it's not connected to the internet. Anyway, this is an ongoing conversation. There's going to be more in our next take as well, because there's lots of AI correspondence. People are getting quite interested at this. Anyway, you said it's going to lead very neatly to m3gan. So this is a it's gonna lead very neatly to M3, to M3, you know, Megan.

So this is a satirical horror thriller from Jarrah Johnson, who made Housebound, which was a frightfest hit back in 2014, produced by Jason Bloom and James Wan, both of whom have made very successful movies of very, very, very in quality. Ritman Bakalekuper, who wrote Malignant, and whom Variety tapped as a screenwriter to watch some

time ago. Very, very good call. So M3Gan, Megan, which is Model 3 Generative Android, is an in development must have toy designed by Al Alison Williams' Gemma. Gemma then finds herself caring for her orphaned niece, Katie. And she doesn't really know how to care for her, but what she decides to do is that the prototype of this toy that she's developing, which probably owes a debt to AI, to David in AI Artificial Intelligence, the Spielberg film, which you remember they bring home David who looks and behaves like a child, but is an android, but also to Chuckie, the good guy's doll who turns out to be not such a good guy, what with being

possessed by the spirit of a serial killer. Anyway, decides that, you know, here's a very good way of road testing the prototype and also using the prototype, you know, as an aid in raising young child, and this is going to be the biggest selling toy of all time, is it clip? Studies indicate that a staggering 78% of a parents time is spent dishing out the same basic instructions. Oh my God, Katie, you have to flush the toilet.

It's not that hard. So we found someone else to pick up the slack. Katie, flush the toilet. Flush your hands. Roll up your sleeves. Great job. It was my friend, Jenny's birthday. Megan's an excellent lesson. The sky told them that the 13th floor was haunted. She said she'd be okay.

She'll never run out of ways to keep your child occupied and she'll never run out of patience. Keeni, seriously, flash the toilet. Now, if you're somebody who is still using social media, you will know that even before the movie opened, this had become a big meme as the dancing doll scene, which was on TikTok and Twitter and all the rest of it. And also, one look at the poster of Megan M. Thriegan of the doll. And you go, okay, that's, that's going to end very, very badly. The doll's got, it's got that blank face that says Michael Myers. It's got that. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's

donated in your house. So essentially, Megan is learning the world around us. So she's doing exactly this thing that was just being referred to what they called it the not the next generation or the smart AI they were saying it was weak AI this week AI is but this is strong AI and she knows that she has to protect Katie whatever that takes now Devil Doll movies aren't anything new. I mean you go back to you know dead of night and you've always loved anything new. I mean, you go back to, you know, that of night and you've always loved magic, you know, Annabelle recently. What this brings to the table is a freshness and a whip that is really, really entertaining. It's a sort of slight consumerist satire about outsourcing child care, about the nature of our attachment to screens, about AI and it's kind of interesting that this is

all happening right now as it is. You know what's coming, but it's still fun when it comes. And one of the really nice things about it was it was one of the first things I saw back you know, for the new year and I had seen the poster and I liked the look of it and I liked the idea and I knew a little bit about it because I have been off the social media stuff because of Elon being an ass. And I just sat down in the Universal Screening Rim, you know, Dave Norris started the projection, as he always would, and I sat there

and I thought, this is really good fun. I'm really enjoying this. This is, there are gonna be more of these films out there. There's gonna be M4 and M5 and bring it on because it's, you know, I mean, it's not changing the world, but it's taking that very, very sort of well-known familiar trait, putting a twist on it, doing it in a way which is sly and it's not scary, but it's kind of not meant to be scary. It's meant to be sly least theoretical in a slightly nasty way, which I kind of, it's, yeah, I enjoyed it.

Okay. By the way, in case you're wondering whether Jason has replied. Yes He has replied. I'm just gonna show you what he said I have to say we're none the wiser which is probably the right way of wow We haven't given anything away and I've read the text that I don't even know what it means No, it's like watching a movie. Let's like watching him. Okay. What was that about? So I've read Jason's text and I've got no idea So he hasn't given anything away if you're worried about it either. Let's do a what sign. Is that rather like Kelly and Murphy signing an agreement?

Well, no, he doesn't. To say they don't know. I know it's not. Basically he hasn't spulled anything. No, he hasn't. Yes, because I don't even know what that means. I don't even know if he knows what I'm talking about. Actually, that's true.

What's on? This is where you email us a voice note about your festival or special screening from wherever you may be in the world. You can email it to Correspondents at Kermannamau.com. Here we go with this week's Correspondence. Hey Mark, hey Simon. Why not dust off those Christmas winter blues and head down to the English Riviera, South End on Sea, where it's time once again for horror on sea.

Now and it's 10th tenth year we will be showing a plethora, no a smorgasbord of independent horror movies spanning two weekends beginning on January the 13th and all set within the parking, radison hotel, overlooking the longest peer in the world. For more information go to horroronc.com. We have such sights to show you. Okay, well, he went a little bit disturbing. Film Morrison talking about horroronc Film Festival, Friday Jan 13 to Sunday January the 22nd, more at horror-on-hiphonc.com.

Send your audio trailer about your event, wherever you might be, correspondents at colonomero.com. Okay, so let's talk about tar, with an Grav accent over the A, the new Kate Blanche, from Sogeson. Is that Jason? Is that an update? Oh, it's just a copy of the thing that he sent to you. Okay, it's the same thing, yeah.

So thank you, Jason. Same meaningless drivel. The same meaningless drivel. Hello to Jason, is it? So let's talk about Tar. Tar. New film by Actaton director Todd Field, who made little children and is in eyes wide shut amongst other things.

This is heavily Oscar-tipped variety, have it as a deadlock for nominations for Best Picture and Best Actress for Kate Blanche. She is currently, I think it's her or Michelle Yo, a pretty much the kind of the title fight as far as the Oscars are concerned. Kate Blanche plays Lydia Tar, celebrated conductor, composer, who we meet at the very beginning of the film, being interviewed extensively about her brilliant career,

here's a clip. Time is the thing. Time is the essential piece of interpretation. You cannot start without me. See, I start the clock. You know, my left hand, it shapes, but my right hand, the second hand, marks time and moves it forward.

However, unlike a clock, sometimes my second hand stops, which means the time stops. Now, the illusion is that like you, I'm responding to the orchestra in real time, making the decision about the right moment to restart the thing or reset it or throw time out the window altogether. The reality is that right from the very beginning, I know precisely what time it is, and the exact moment that you and I will arrive at our destination together.

That's quite an extensive scene, isn't it? That interview goes on for quite a while. And it's then followed by another scene in which she's giving a class on, which is basically becomes an argument about whether or not you can conflate art and the artist. Her partner is Sharon, Lebanese host, who is the lead violinist in the orchestra. She has a book coming out which is basically about her brilliance.

It's called something like Tar on Taros and it's like, you know, she's a genius. She's also, in the way of screen geniuses, particularly a very, very flawed character. Early simmars had just referred to basically has her berating a student who judges composers on their personal life on their, you know, who they are, what they are, what they did in the world. And she starts saying, but, you know, if you start judging, if you start throwing people out like that, you're gonna throw out all the great composers. And there's a kind of, she sort of berates the student

at great length, and I think the scene ends with the student walking out. It turns out that she has a habit of, well, she's in a long-standing relationship of having inappropriate relationships with people in which her position of power is abused. And there is a thing going on in the background that there is someone with whom she was involved whose career seems to have been potentially stymied by the fallout of the relationship.

So the film addresses some fairly hot topic issues. Council culture, I mean, I noticed, for example, that, you know, some, the right wing press have become very delighted about the fact that it's, you know, it's an anti-cant, anti-woke, anti-cantle culture. No, exactly. It is, isn't that just the... Yeah, that's like Donald Trump saying that Citizen Kane is a film, the moral of which is you should get a better wife.

I mean, it's like, yeah, well done for literally not reading the thing in front of you. The nature of genius, which is a subject that we return to more and more the role of consent and power struggles. It's also become a bit of a hot topic and we should flag this up because Marin Olsop, who I confess is not somebody with whom I was familiar until she was in the press recently saying that she... This is leading conductor. Leading conductor, but you know, she said, I first read about the film in late August, I was shocked, this was the first I was hearing of it.

So many superficial aspects of Tars seemed to align with my own personal life, so she seems to be saying that the film takes inspiration from her life. But once I saw it, I was no longer concerned. I was offended. I was offended as a woman. I was offended I was offended. I was offended as a woman. I was offended as a conductor. I was offended as a lesbian. She goes on to say, to have the opportunity to portray a woman in that role and make her an abuser for me,

that was heartbreaking. I think all women and all feminists should be bothered by that kind of depiction because it's not really about women conductors. There are so many men, actual documented men that this film could have been based on, but instead it puts a woman in the role but gives her all the attributes of those men that feels anti-women. Now, a couple of things to say first, I think the fact that the central character in this

is a woman is what makes it interesting, not what makes it, you know, makes it anti-women. I think actually that's one of the most interesting things about it that she is a woman and very, very early on in the film, she's asked about that and she sort of poo-poo's the idea the tar character does. And in fact, she mentions Marin also in this list of sort of successful means so it's it's almost saying it's this is not who we're talking about. It mentions a whole bunch of other people. So there's a lot going on in the film and it has at the center of it a powerhouse performance by Kate Bonshet. You and I were talking last night and I think you said you believe that she was a conductor.

And in the same way that you believe that Daniel Day Lewis is capable of whatever profession it is that he's playing on screen at the point that he's playing it. It's a... And on the soundtrack, which I'll be just just discovered, she is conducting. So she is conducting the orchestra. And this is a Deutere Gramophone soundtrack. So that's a lot.

Also, name check, Hilda Goodner-Dotto, who of course is the musical director for the Brick and her name is mentioned in the thing as well. So there's a lot of stuff going on in it. And Blancheette is, I said, her and Michelle Yewa, absolutely neck and neck as far as the Oscars race is concerned. I really wanted to like Tar because I think there are interesting things going on in it. I have to confess that I found it,

I spent a long time admiring it much more than I did actually enjoying it. And I think the problems for me are twofold. The first one is it's very, very verbose and almost painfully aware of the discussions that it's having. And as you know, I've always had this thing about physicality over words. And it's not that her performance isn't physically great. I mean, when you see those scenes when she's conducting, that's a dance. That's a cabaret.

That's a ballet that you're watching. But there is an awful lot of just simple discussing the things straight out. Second thing is, I'm not sure that having set up all the ideas that it has, I'm not sure that it actually does anything particularly fascinating with them. Beyond the central idea of it being interesting that it's Kate Blanchett playing the central character, who's, you know, she is a genius,

but she's also monstrous, she's talented, but she's also incredibly, you know, she is abusive in her relationship. She uses her power over those around her. And the third thing is, it's a film which takes its time. There are long, long scenes which actually feel like they're saying to you, look how long we're doing this and right at the beginning, the interview sequence, then the sequence in which there is the whole discussion in which they literally

the film flags up the issue of cancel culture. It says, you can't throw out all these composers because you don't like their personal lives, because what are you going to end up with? And then I'm not sure that it then manages to move much beyond that. Now, I should say that I, people I know in respect, absolutely love the film.

And one of my closest colleagues, Wendy, I just think it's a, it's a flat out five star masterpiece. I don't. I think it's an interesting film that's a bit full of itself. What did you think? I'm somewhere between you and Wendy I. That's a good place to be. Yeah, I mean, because I did enjoy it and you go and see it because the music is fantastic. And if anyone can disappear into this world, Kate Blanchett manages to do that, you completely believe that she is the conductor. And that's the heart of it. And I agree with you that it's more interesting because it was a woman who is a conductor rather than a man.

And I don't think it's anti-women, do you? No, not in the slightest. I do think it, but I agree it is for both, and also a bit up itself. In, for example, the title of the movie is tar. And people are going to look at it, go, what's that? and also a bit up itself. For example, the title of the movie is tar. And people are going to look at it, go, what's that? We've discussed before when a movie title is a fictional character's name.

I think it's a bit baffling to the, you walk past a poster and you go, tar, and it's got an accent on the, what is that? Why can't you just have had a proper title? Anyway, so I'm kind of between I didn't care mode. There you go. To be in a rock and a hard place. Whatever.

That is your thoughts for next week. Correspondents of COVID-19.com. Thank you. It's the end of take one. Production management, general all-round stuff. Lily Hamley, cameras Teddy Riley, videos, Ryan O'Meara, studio engineer Josh Gibbs, the guest researcher, Sophie Yvan. Nia Deo was the producer. Simon Paul was the redacto mark, your film of the week as though there

is any doubt. Ennis Maine, Ennis Maine, Ennis Maine. Thank you for listening. Our extra takes with a bonus of view. More Sam Mendes, some recommendations, some more stuff about the movies and cinema adjacent television will be available on Monday. on Monday.