Kermode & Mayo’s Take - SHRINK THE INBOX

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Ben and Nemone answer your questions and explore your suggestions. They talk about whether they have any friends who are spies and explore some brilliant female led comedies you've either missed or forgotten. We want to hear about any theories we might have missed, what you’ve thought of the show so far and your character suggestions. Please drop the team an email (which may be part of the show): [e-mail] NEXT CLIENTS ON THE COUCH. Find out how to view here Michael, Office (USA. Season 1) Chandler, Friends (selected episodes) Sydney, The Bear (season 2) Tyrion, Game of Thrones (seasons 1&2). Alex and Bradley, The Morning Show (Season 1) Tasha, Orange is the New Black (season 2) CREDITS We used a clip from Girls, Series 6. Starring (in the clip we used): Lena Dunham as Hannah Horvath Adam Driver as Adam Sackler. Created by: Lena Dunham. Written by Lena Dunham and Judd Apatow. Directed by: Jesse Peretz Produced by: Home Box Office. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts. To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yeah, and we are getting deep into season two of Shrink the Box, which is incredibly exciting. The correspondence that we've already been getting from you is so plentiful. We're not going to try and squeeze it into the shows themselves. We're going to give it its own breathing space, right? This is a very special shrink the inbox. So we're going to have a look at the theories you sent in, have a look at some of your suggestions for more TV characters to put into therapy and try and dig into some of the things we

haven't had time to talk about in a character episode because I mean, we record those things, but really and truly, there's like entire subjects we touch upon that I think. Yeah. We need an extra hour just for that. Days to fit in everything that's in all these TV shows. Yeah. Can we just say thank you to everyone who's been writing in and coming up then we're going to cover why one emailer thinks Mark Corrigan from the Peep Show is this generation's biggest

villain. We'll look at spies and why they'd be fascinating to cover. And we also have a couple of emails asking us to cover coming of age comedy. So that's like Broad City and Girls. Both good shows. So let's get to it. Welcome to Shrink the Inbox. All right. First up, we have Charlotte in London who says, hey Ben and Nimone, first and foremost can I just say I'm so excited to see Nimone on this podcast. As an avid 6 music listener it would be nice to hear a friendly and familiar voice. Yeah, bring your fans.

I'm here. Bring your fans with you, Nimone. It makes sense. Charlotte says, I've just been rewatching Peep Show for the 15th time or thereabouts and I'd love to see Mark Corrigan covered in Trink the Box. He's this generation's biggest underground villain. Never has someone been so manipulative. He constantly lies to get what he wants. I think the guise of the normal middle class white male is played perfectly alongside the fact that he is inherently evil. I would love to hear everything he would let slip in therapy. So I hope we get to see Peep Show covered in the next season. I need to know if someone agrees with me on Mark being the absolute worst. And she's put worst in capitals with

exclamation marks. It says, cheers Charlotte from London. Go on then. Mark Corrigan. Mark Corrigan in therapy. Dis discuss. What do you think Ben? I definitely know what she's getting at. To think of someone as the absolute worst or the ultimate villain because they lie and manipulate in the way Mark does. I wouldn't want to call him evil because it all comes from a place of his own inadequacy. And desperation. And fear and desperation. I don't think he wants to be evil. I don't think he's a monster.

What? But he behaves like a monster. Some of the outcomes you could read as manipulation, more calculated. I mean, sometimes it's explicit and he'll admit it himself in the voiceovers that you hear or the narrations. Well, that's what's brilliant about the heap show, isn't it? Because you're kind of getting an inside track on some of the voices that we don't often hear in everyday life that are happening for people whilst they're going through, you know, whatever we're seeing or

we're meeting them. Yeah. I mean, how many times do you hear the voice in one of the characters' heads in Peep Show saying, is this a good idea? It doesn't feel like a good idea. Doesn't feel right. Feels like that belongs to Jeremy rather than Mark though. Maybe I should do this. Yeah, that maybe is as gorgeous. Maybe I should stop right now. Jeremy would be like, yeah, it's definitely a good idea.

So Charlotte, you've got us on a good trajectory, I think. Yeah, there's a lot of depth in Peepshow, man. For me, it's still the funniest sitcom, I think, ever in terms of just the guttural reactions it gets from me, like I'll laugh on my own, watching it out loud, which is so rare for me. And then, Jesse Armstrong is one of the writers, who's also a creator of succession. To have that level of writing I think always helps

in terms of who we're gonna deconstruct. But yeah, maybe him and Jeremy getting together for couples counselling. Who knows? We could find out all sorts of things about their own. Oh, a bit interesting couples therapy. Do you ever do couples know? No, no, no.

Well, I would like to do a bit of further training towards couples therapy, but I'm fascinated in the way in which we communicate and relate. And obviously people often come to therapy and they'll say, and my partner does this. And you kind of get the feeling that actually that they'd like their other half to be in therapy. So you might get Jeremy coming to therapy to sort of, in a funny way, get Mark into therapy. And the thing to do there is to really think with people about what's happening for them in that moment.

Because obviously it's very stark for them how they're feeling on the receiving end of this person. So it'd be good to peel back the layers for both of them. I mean, the kind of therapy I practice is one-to-one, face-to-face, and obviously we're looking at a client's way of being in the world. But I think that's doubly interesting when we think that we're all relating to one another, bringing our own kind of wounds and various experiences and ways of being in the world. And that only gets more complex the bigger the group

it'd be great to talk to the writers behind the characters like you say as well Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bain to see if there are any similarities in their relationship that come through that we then see in Mark and Jess. It's really interesting what you said that really struck me that thing about what you bring to other people. You know, if you're carrying something unresolved that maybe makes you anxious or it's making you nervous, it's making you angry or, you know, fearful, you might bring that to a complete stranger at some point in your day. Most of the time it's like the people closest to you, right? They get the brunt of your, your bulls. And I wonder about the apology there, because sometimes it doesn't come, does it? It would

be interesting to undo the relationship or untangle with Jeremy and Mark what happens for them and how they actually might help or hinder each other. So I guess that's what I mean about bringing, because obviously we're all projections and our interjections and that only becomes more complex when you're talking about inner partnership. Because in a one-to-one therapy, you're really working with someone about their way of being in the world. But of course, their way of being in the world then goes out and meets other people's way

of being in the world. So then it becomes a more, an infinitely more complicated picture. You got one from Georgina, right? I have. Georgina? Yeah, Georgina in Norfolk suggesting The Night Manager. Oh yeah, is that the Hiddleston thing? Hiddleston, yeah.

So Dear Team Shrink says Georgina, loving podcast, such a great listen, please keep them coming, we will do our best. She would like to suggest that we do a deep dive on The Night Manager, saying, I read the book, which is brilliant. Is that Le do a deep dive on the night manager saying, I read the book, which is brilliant. Is that LeCarrie?

Spot on, Ben. And Georgina was worried the TV adaptation would spoil it and let her down how wrong she was to be concerned. Watched it three times since the BBC series came out in 2016. Cast is exceptional. You're right, Tom Hiddleston, Hugh Laurie, obviously, Olivia Colman, Elizabeth DeBicchi, Tom Hollander, David Harewood. I mean, does it get any better?

She's right. The cast is a strong cast, isn't it? It would be cool, says Georgina, to see Elizabeth Debicki's character, Jed or Hugh Laurie, as Richard Onslow be analysed. This is particularly timely one, as it's just been announced they're going to make another series too. And I'm so excited. All the best, says Georgina Norfolk. Ah, good info, Georgina. Because we're going to do slow horses, right? Which is also based on a spy thread. I'm thinking

it's particularly spies. Tell you what, I've read almost all of the slow winks. And Mick Heron is definitely, you can see his, you can see that line. You can link that line between Lecari and him. That lineage. He's a shed load funnier than Le Carre. I'll tell you that much. The UK has a good pedigree of spy thrillers obviously, but why do you think we get spy thrillers so right?

Particularly in the UK. There's something particular about the British experience in terms of how much time we spend in our own heads. You know when you go to different countries and you realize they're much quicker at not necessarily confrontation but like speaking with strangers, being you know direct, being direct, being a bit more gregarious. With Brits we're very like oh shall I shall I not. So I think we find it fascinating the idea of people who go out into the world in disguise,

to play a completely different role and find their confidence that way. There's a part of every Brit that thinks, I could probably be a spy. Have you ever had someone in your life where you're like, are they a spy? Have you ever had that? Yeah.

Because I've had that, not with someone close to me, but like a friend of a friend noticed like little patterns. There were two, one was certainly in contact and then not contact. Yeah. And you're like, oh, who are you? And you just never know. I just love that. Well, we're never going to know.

Never know. And of course that leads us on to double lives. Yes. Which? that leads us onto double lives. Yes. Which... Shadow lives and where truth and fiction start and finish. That's the end of my spy dream because I can't do that. No, I mean that... I would be rubbish at trying to lead a double life. Sorry.

Are you actually in the moment of taxes? Yes. Yes. Sorry. I'm afraid. Sorry. I can't take the stress. They've tried to hide that from you. But I wonder if at some point there are those that lose their sense of self and who they

are. And, and, and of course that leads us onto the dreadful and tragic things you might have to witness. And sometimes that would take a toll. We could think of that in terms of dissociation and whether there are experiences in childhood or your upbringing, which means you've had to dissociate to protect yourself, that might lend itself well to becoming a spy in later life. So you might grow into that way of being. It's easier to cut off from emotional content of life perhaps. Also trust, massive one becomes more fluid, which might have an impact psychologically.

And a feeling that the ground might slip away underneath your feet and constant threat everywhere you look. I mean, you couldn't, I don't know, can you relax as a spy? No, it's like a constant point actually. The one of Heron's books is specifically about that. So, you know, the main character River Cartwright, his granddad, the old bastard, in one of the books without giving anything away, it's because it's maybe the best one that I've read. He basically is, you basically is long retired, but he's

constantly, constantly on edge. And something happens right at the start of this particular book that proves his point. That you're never... That he cannot relax. There is no retirement. You have to constantly scan back every lie you've ever told, everybody you ever double crossed, every life and death situation you've been in and think, is there someone maybe it wasn't even there at the time, maybe someone who was born of that situation that might want me off or is there something that I know that's so dangerous that it'd be better if I wasn't around to say it. Chilling man. Yeah, but on the more human level, I suppose, what is fascinating is this idea of,

I can be effective and confident and get the job done if I'm not me. Do you know what I mean? And we're back to full self. And that's a weird place to be, isn't it? Because then you could easily, and that's great that you can get the job done, it's great that you're being effective, it's, that's a weird place to be, isn't it? Because then you could use, like that's great that you can get the job done. It's great that you're being effective. It's great that you're confident. But what does that mean for the other me? Well, and the authentic relationships that you may or may not be able to forge. And what

does that mean for kind of relating at depth really, which we know ultimately and allowing yourself a certain level of vulnerability or should we get stuck into spies? Yeah, can definitely feel a spy special coming on. All right, here's a show created by Elana Glazer and Abby Jacobson who are best friends on and off the screen, can you guess it? It's coming from Beth from London who says, hey Ben and Amon, when I watched Broad City in my early 20s, I finally felt like I was seeing my life depicted on screen. Abby and Alana are chaotic, messy but most of all fun. Their

friendship is intense and definitely co-dependent. I've had a few friendships like this. There's so much culture exploring how romantic relationships shape you in your 20s. Broad City explores how formative these friendships are and how intense they can be in that stage of life when you're trying to figure out who you are and what you want. And with that in mind, I'd love you to look at not one character, but two in order to shed light on how and why these kinds of dynamics can develop. Thanks from Beth in London. Have you seen Broad City? Do you know, I hadn't until I'd seen Beth's email and I have now. It totally, totally drew me in. Yeah, my sister showed me it when it first came out, so I wouldn't have known

about it at all if it wasn't for her, but I liked it straight away. I think I'd just done a gig in Montreal with Hannibal Buress, you know the black guy, sort of kind of very deadpan with the glasses. And when he popped up in in it as well as I oh yeah I mean I couldn't I was already sold through his biggest stateside yeah it's paper kite is the production company yeah Amy Poehler who you'll know from Parks and Recreation Blades of Glory she was like a SNL staple. She knows funny basically. She's kind of got an all female staff. She's really championing women in a very male industry.

And I went and checked out a whole load of broad city content and behind the scenes after Beth got in touch with us. You went deep into the weeds. And the way that they kind of reached out to Amy and said, oh, you know, working this show, do you fancy it? And she came up with it. Is that what happened? I didn't know that. Yeah. And actually, have we talked about covering parks and recreation? I don't think it's been mentioned.

Aubrey Plaza's character is often talked about for her apathetic and deadpan personality. So I think there's something we could definitely unpack there. Yeah, I've not seen that. So I'll be behind you on that one. Have we got any other ideas for good female leads? I think, you know, trying to wade through, you know, all the suggestions and then also the things that me and you think are kind of worth doing. And then also on top of that thinking, are we doing a good cross-section of humanity? Have we got enough women? Have we got enough black characters?

Have we got enough gay or Have we got enough black characters? Have we got enough gay or LGBTQ characters? Have we got enough disabled characters? And it's like we're at the whim of what's being made. And then even if the lead character is a number of, you know, I don't know, different things, side into one. If the show and the writing's bad, then there's not much we can do about it. And as we've said before to each other, maybe not here, you need the depth of character. So as much as a show might be great, if they're not covering, I mean, there's one show that we've talked about loads, is that Atlanta?

Atlanta. Where each of the characters might not necessarily be deep enough in itself, but the show. Yeah. So like, if you're a Shrink fan, if you're Shrink the Box fan, imagine us doing Earn. Is there like loads to dig into? Maybe, maybe not. I'm still, as yet, unconvinced.

However, got the weird situation with that being, like, as a show is one of the deepest things I've ever watched. And I feel like the character to unpick in Atlanta is the black American experience, which is like a big character. I mean, what a great place for us to start. So I don't think we should shy away from that. Okay, well then I will bring the entire black American experience to your office.

To write that. Okay, how long have you got? Are you ready? Session one. Back to your original question, which was female-led cast and kind of getting in depth. Some good ideas. So we'll just go down that road of intersectionality for you. Caitlin in Manchester gives us a brilliant example of another story in production with women at the heart of it, written by Lena Dunham. Yep, girls writer.

Oh, this is girls? Yeah, this is girls. Okay. So Caitlin says, I hated the characters when I first watched girls as a teenager, I thought they were entitled and annoying and found it hard to watch. Now in my late twenties, I still feel all those things. I only now have a lot more compassion for how messy and self-involved you can be when you're trying to become a person.

I was definitely no angel, says Caitlin. With that in mind, I'd love for you to do an episode looking at Dunham's character, Hannah. Complex, messy, annoying, lovable. She's such a meaty character. I'd love to know what you think. It is from Caitlin in Manchester. I love that.

I hated it. She thought she hated all the characters and she came back in her late 20s and you know what, I still hated them. Still hated the characters. It reminds me of, is it Harry the Horse in Guys and Dolls where they're in the, Nathan Detroit manages to get them all in the mission, all the gangsters. You're going to have to explain, it's not my area of expertise in musical theatre. You're going to have to explain it's not my area of expertise in musical theatre. He convinces all these gangsters to come to the Samaritan's mission, you know, and speak up, you know, just try and show a bit of vulnerability. Who wants to speak from the heart, you know?

And this big gangster gets up and he's like, when you first invited me to come to the mission, I didn't want to be here. But now that I'm here, I still wish it. Perfect. So Caitlin, thank you for writing that email along those lines. And I think, I think you're right. I think what about getting into, you know, the depth of those characters and the cultural moment actually that it created in 2012. I think it's interesting.

Is that how long ago it was? Yeah. That's nice. It's a prodigious young female talent that it took to get something like that off the ground. A little bit like we were talking about with the morning show, the change in a generation. Yeah. Whether we've spoken about the morning show or not by the time this goes up, I don't know.

Oh yeah, that's a good point. Who knows? And again, written from her own voice, a bit like we were talking about Broad City, written from their own voices. Yeah, and interesting that this show introduced Adam Driver. Ah, was it girls? Because I'd completely forgotten that that's where he... Yeah, do you know, girls passed me by that first time. I think...

Lena's character, he was the boyfriend. Okay, yeah. I was, lovable child number two. So I had less time for girls and more time for. Yeah. Isn't it funny when you see years, like you're like, there's a cultural phenomenon and you're like, how did this pass you by? And then you see the year and you're like, Oh yeah, no, I was, I was out of the game. Yeah.

I was struggling to sleep. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, we're going to take a quick break and after that we're going to be looking through more of your emails discussing Gilmore Girls, Shogun, Severance. So we'll see you after the ads unless you very wisely, I must say, have chosen to subscribe to the Take Channel, in which case thank you so much.

And we'll be back right after this little bit of Lena and Adam in action. And it makes me feel very stupid to tell you this because it makes me sound like a girl who wants to like go to brunch. And I really don't want to go to brunch and I don't want you to like sit on the couch while I shop or like even meet my friends. I don't even want that. Okay? But I also don't want to share a sex partner with a girl who seems to have asked for a picture of your d- This episode is brought to you by the curated streaming service Mubi.

Mark, some people know they love great cinema, others haven't quite found out yet, but Mubi is here to help. What does Mubi have to offer people of all kinds this June? This month, Simon, as festival season approaches, Mubi are hosting some really exciting gems from recent years. There's Gasoline Rainbow, which is now streaming on Mubi UK. That's the latest from the Ross Brothers who made Bloody Nose Empty Pockets, which you remember I was very, very fond of. Then there's Great Freedom, winner of the Uncertain Regard Jury Prize at the 2021 Cannes Film Festival and a stirring portrait of gay resistance and resilience in post-war Germany.

So that's the Mubi selection of festival gems. What else is there? Great Freedom is being featured as part of their film collection, A Place of Our Own, Queer Spaces on Film. This is a selection of iconic queer titles and you can see such classics as Paris is Burning, which transports us into the houses and ballrooms of the 1980s New York drag and voguing scene. You can try Mubi free for 30 days at MubBI.com slash Kermode and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. What do we have here? Oh, it's an advertisement from Better Help Therapy.

That's because Kermode and Mayo's take where I sometimes step into Mark's patent leather wingtip shoes is brought to you by better help. You know, I'm no stranger to stress and anxiety and for me sometimes it can be overwhelming and in those moments I can't tell you how important it is to have someone to talk to someone you can share with you know And a therapy is such a safe space in terms of getting things off your chest and Then then to figure out how to work through whatever's weighing you down. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's

designed to be convenient, flexible, it works with your schedule so you can get access to BetterHelp when you need it most. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a registered therapist and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. There's over a thousand therapists in the UK already. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash curmode. That's better, H-E-L-P dot com slash curmode. The island of Newfoundland keeps its secrets close, shrouds them in mystery.

But once in a while, the fog is lifted, the truth comes out. I get a feeling there's something going on here. My whole body was shaking. You go to bed believing that you're a certain person one night and then all of a sudden the next day, everything that you've known is not true. This is not the life that I should have lived.

I'm Luke Quinton from CBC. This is Come By Chance available now Okay, we are back. Nimone you got an email there for us. We've got Eva who's gotten in touch I said I only just discovered shrink the box shame on me, but it's the perfect combination Tele and psychoanalysis. She says, my partner's ever so grateful that I stopped pestering him with my theories and instead I've turned to you as experts. I'm currently re-watching Gilmore Girls, want to have a lot of I think to do, despite being

a bit uneven in quality, says Eva. I think the show captures some realistic aspects of mother-daughter, granddaughter relationship. That would be good. My daughter's love this show. I've never seen it. Do you know, Eva says it gives me goosebumps having grown up with a controlling mom and rebellious much older sister. Thanks and keep up the good work.

You're doing great. Yeah. And that's all I know about Gilmore Girls. But it stays at the top of the Netflix viewing charts. It's really popular. Yeah. There's something really nuanced about watching the mother-daughter relationship on screen, I guess. I've never seen it, as I say during the email.

You and I need to do our Gilmore Girls homework before we approach this one. Yeah, big time. Let's do it. I know that the mum names her daughter after herself. I like that the second I heard it. So she's got a junior, which is something only men are allowed to do. Yeah. So Eva's onto something. We need to cover this. Now, moving on to an email that's based around a world that brings patriarchy and duty into sharp focus, Ben, you know how I love this. Inspired by the 80s program, it's based around someone

has emailed us about the Shogun remake on Disney Plus. Heath in Brighton says, hello Ben and Nemone. Just wanted to say what a brilliant addition Nemone is to the Shrink team. Listen, absolutely incredible. It's been emotional and continues to be. Already. Yeah.

Insightful, intelligent and yet totally down to earth. And I want to hear more about her superpowers. Same. Quick suggestion, John Blackthorn in the Disney Plus adaptation of Shogun is excellent. People keep telling me to watch that show. Yeah, you've got to get on Shogun. I definitely want to do Shogun on this show. Although Shogun's protagonist is loosely based on the life of a 17th century pilot navigator

called William Adams who was the first person to reach Japan. So this might break the shrink rule of analyzing real people. I think we'd be alright with that. It must have been amazing for Adams, now Blackthorn, to be surrounded by a culture he knew nothing about, speaking to everyone in his second language, Portuguese, and under the constant threat of death. He does however have a brilliant and extensive armory of swear words to get him through. Anyway, probably too new for your show, but maybe something to chew on for the future. Thank you for an ace podcast. Heath, I don't know if it's too new, if it's good enough. We're on it. I'm enthralled by it. So definitely let's get, I'm thinking Marika.

I have to watch it. You've got to get on it then. Oh man, there's not enough hours in the day, but I will get there. You got one there? Yes, I do. Okay, this is a long one, Ben. No.

Please sit and come to me. I am actually. Dave from Vancouver in Canada says, I wrote to you once before near the beginning of your show and moved to write again today because I just finished watching season two of White Lotus. One of my main reasons for watching this show was because I wanted to be able to listen

to the Tanya McQuoid episode, which I did less than 50 minutes after the final episode was over. I didn't love the show as much as you seem to have done, but I was constantly fascinated with it enough that I had to finish it. Before listening to your episode on Tanya, I don't believe I'd really thought that much about attachment theory. I'd heard you mention it before, but it really piqued my interest this time because your talk of Tanya and her preoccupied attachment, clearly this is the category I belong to. Not the same extent as Tanya, of course, but I was fascinated by your discussion and went on to read more about it and I want to continue to learn about it. My two favourite shows of the year have both been from Apple TV+.

They are Severance and Silo. Silo, how every character thinks they're doing the most important job in Silo is so fascinating to me, rings true in my life as well. Oh, that is an interesting road we could go down. But Severance, just the psychology of why someone would decide to voluntarily commit to working in a place where they are completely removed from their real life is so fascinating. So thanks very much for doing the excellent podcast. Keep up the great work, Dave. I mean, they both sound like fascinating subjects. Two programs would be great to cover I think, shrink the box.

Now what do we have in store next week? This is the sort of show where everyone says you have to watch this. It's only had two seasons and this year it cleaned up at the Grammys. We need them to approve all of our new business paperwork and then they'll send a rep and that rep will sign off on another rep who will come and look at stuff,

and then sign off on a different rep. How many reps is that? Many, a lot, a lot of reps, yeah. But it's gonna be okay, you know? All we have to do is just stay calm and make sure that people look at us. No! Sidney!

What was that? I fell through a wall, good morning. Damn, are you guys strong? What kind of insurance coverage do we have for people falling through the wall? Really good kind, are you guys strong? What kind of insurance coverage do we have for people falling through the wall? Really good kind where you pray they don't. Oh! Yeah, it's the bear.

Season two. You know what? I've actually not seen it yet. Oh, Ben. I've seen the first series, so I need to get on it right. Now, we did Calm Me before. But we're actually going to do season two, right? Yeah, yeah.

So who are we going to focus on? We are going to cover Sydney. Yes. All right. Season two this time, Sydney is such a brilliant character. Loads going on. And so many of you asked us to do a whole episode on her. Sydney is played by Iowa Deberry, who actually started out as a standup.

Yeah, yeah. Just like me. And she is incredibly funny. Have you seen Theater Camp? No, I need to watch that. Oh, get on that. Watch it with the kids as well. It's a good family movie.

I think it's Disney. Yeah. Oh, it's so funny. And she plays this absolutely useless youth worker. She's clearly got no interest in working with kids. Doesn't know anything about drama or theater. Theater camp. And she's just winging it in that way you used to

when you were young and you just like lied on your CV. She's really, really funny. Yeah, and apparently she studied these cookbooks by Matty Matheson. He plays the handyman back in the series. And she took classes at the Institute of Culinary Education in Pasadena to prepare for her role. So that's where our similarities end. She's clearly taking it very seriously with the research. Can you cook then? I can cook two dishes really well without a recipe. I can cook with a recipe, of course. You know, with a good stir or a HelloFresh or something. But just like blind, I can make

an unbelievable spag bowl and ackee and saltfish, coconut rice and peas and fried dumplings. Right, I'm in. Fried plantain, yeah. That's my speciality. So, Fack is a cook. I mean, the handyman Fack. Yeah, I never knew he was a cook. No, I didn't know Matty Matheson was in it.

That's amazing. Yeah, it's a nice little Easter egg for food lovers. Oh. It does make you hungry, this show. I remember that from the first. Do you remember the doughnuts in the first one. That guy was like a genius. Trying to perfect the donuts and then you start salivating. Yeah, they became a big plot point in the first series as well, donuts.

There is a lot to cover. We will look at why Sydney thrives on this high octane lifestyle. What's powering her? Is it the grief of her mother dying or trying to prove something to her father, who we see much more in season two? Sydney's low self-esteem, how she overcomes it and of course the possible codependent relationship with Carmy and Sydney. Because of course there's kind of a freeze on between them ish. Kind of. It feels, I mean, I haven't seen season two yet, I can't wait. But in season one it felt like it began with this kind of mutual respect. Do you know what I mean? They both seem to have the,

they seem to be deeper thinkers. And they seem to have more respect for this concept, this idea of progressing this business. And they say they had a wavelength and then you look at them, similar ages, both attractive people. As a viewer, you kind of maybe want something. Well, I think Kami sees a lot of younger him in Sydney. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it might be more of a... And he elevates her to boss level almost immediately. And with good reason. Yeah, yeah.

Oh man, I actually, that's the first thing I'm going to do now, I'm going to leave here and check out episode one. I have to say season two, it grows. So it's worth... Does it? Better than the first on a par, not as good. I'd say on a par, if not better. Wicked. All right then. Yeah, and we'd love the first on a par, not as good. I'd say on a par if not better.

Oh wicked. All right then. Yeah, and we'd love to keep on hearing from you about which TV fictional, fictional TV characters you think we should be covering. So please, when you get a moment, shrink the box at sonymusic.com. Theories, characters, anything we've missed, all of the above. Absolutely. And our usual thanks to the production team, production management, Lily Hambly, assistant producer Skyler O'Malley, the studio mix engineer, Josh Gibbs, senior producer Selena Ream and the executive producer Simon Paul. Do follow us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts to get new episodes and if you can tell everyone you know who can to listen

so that we can make some more. Yeah, we appreciate your ongoing support. If you wanna become an even greater supporter of us Oh yes. And skip all the ads and get Kermode and Mayo's take also without the ads and all their bonus exclusive content. All you have to do is subscribe to Extra Takes. You can start a free trial right now by clicking try free at the top of the

shrink the book show page on Apple podcasts or by visiting extra takes.com. So should we go off and do our homework? Yeah. You know, you've got a lot of, I know I'm going to have to start show gun as well because you know, I'm sick of being in those conversations. I know. Everybody's talking about it and I haven't seen it. You better get on it. I'm getting on it right now.

All right, ta-da. See you soon.