Kermode & Mayo’s Take - SIR IAN MCKELLEN: Christophers and some unfinished business…

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Some exciting news—The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. This week’s very special guest is a living legend and bona fide National Treasure: Sir Ian McKellen. He chats to Simon from the comfort of his very own East London pub The Grapes about his new film ‘The Christophers’. This Steven Soderbergh directed drama of art, family feuds and friendship is a late-career gem from McKellen, who plays cantankerous celebrity artist Julian Sklar in an unlikely and uneasy friendship with Michaela Coel’s Laurie, his new assistant. Sir Ian and Simon prop up the bar and talk grumpy old men, unfinished business… and what it’s like to be Gandalf. Mark will review The Christophers next week, but for now we’ve got three more fresh film releases to dissect. Three fresh reviews this week too: first up, the new Hugh Jackman-starring family adventure that’s like “Babe meets Knives Out”: ‘The Sheep Detectives’. A star-studded affair with roles played by Hugh Jackman, Emma Thompson, and Molly Gordon with sheep voiced from the likes of Chris O’Dowd, Patrick Stewart and Bryan Cranston, the ‘cozy-crime’ tale sees the sheep turn sleuths. Plus, a full review of Legends, the new Netflix series form last week’s Take guest Steve Coogan, where ordinary customs workers go undercover to fight Britain’s heroin crisis. And finally a look at the fourth time made, second era’d Mortal Kombat II. And as always we’ve got top correspondence from you lovely listeners, extended and unadulterated wittering from Mark and Simon—and Laughter Lift jokes guaranteed to induce the most exasperated groans. It’s what The Redactor lives for. You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code [Take] at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to https://saily.com/Take ⛵ Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Timecodes: 00:00:00 audio start 00:09:59 The Sheep Detectives 00:19:18 Box office 10 00:30:08 Sir Ian McKellen interview 00:46:11 Legends review 00:54:56 Laughter Lift 01:00:27 Mortal Kombat review Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Now, Mark, you were telling me the other day about this Saley ESIM app. Which one was that? Well, the one I just install on my phone before I go abroad so that I can save loads of money on roaming and data charges when I'm there. Ah, yes, it's dead simple. Install the Saly app on your device and choose a data plan. There are multiple plans in over 200 destinations available at some of the best rates online.

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apply the code Take, T, T, A, K, K, at checkout to get a 15% discount. Howdy partner. Hello, Simon Mayo. I was just thinking the other day about the good old days. What, the good old days in the Wild West? What's with the howdy partner thing? Well, I was just thinking that when we started out in the radio, we were lucky because we had each other to bounce off.

But most people don't have that support from a partner when they're starting out in business, and they can get overwhelmed easily. Yeah, very true. But they could try Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, from household names like Mattel and Heinz to brands just getting started. Shopify can help you get more efficient,

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Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, shmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to Extra Takes.com for non-fruit-related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. I don't believe in adding pictures to audio. That's my opening statement to you, Mark.

Have we begun? Have we begun? And I know lots of people like to watch us on YouTube. I'm just suggesting that too much attention is paid to what we look like. Well, the hilarious thing is, so you're in your house in Showbiz, North London. I'm in Alley's attic,

where I have literally got everything balanced upon, you know, books and bits of wire and string, until about two seconds ago, in between us, was the be-head phoned figure of Simon Paul who only just remembered to turn his camera off. Oh, really? That's a shock. First thing in the morning.

How are you doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, very good. But, you know, so for example, the first thing that I did this morning was arrange my bookshelf. Yes. I had a bet with Josh that you'd spot this before we got anywhere. But the astute listener will have noticed this and also this. You've suddenly gone into soft definitions of what are you pointing at? I'm pointing at two books on my bookshelf.

Can you not see it? Yeah, I know. I can see that, but what are the books that you're pointing at? Okay, I'm going to remove them slowly. Okay, fine. This is why I don't believe in pictures. Okay. What is this one? Oh, that's Stephen Spielberg's children.

By? By Dr. Linda Ruth Williams, Professor Linda Ruth Williams, the definitive guide to children in the films of Stephen Spielberg. And that is surround sound by Jenny Nelson and some bloke that she used to produce. Just saying, just saying. Just saying. A curated shelf. Well done.

Thank you. Nicely curated. It's looking fine. I have nothing to contribute to the show, really, other than. and I have a curated bookshelf. There was... Your book's prominent. There was some correspondence, apparently, last week,

when we were talking about the Korean edition of movie doctors. And some people said, that's not a Korean edition. That's a Chinese edition. No, no, there are two separate editions. The Korean edition, which is the one that... Do you have it there? Yeah. Which is the one with the doctor with laser beams coming out of their eyes.

For which I am told that the title does not translate as the movie doctors. it translates as something like movies need to go to the surgery. Chinese version. There we go. I don't think I've got a copy of that version. This is still wrapped. Did you get it from the publishers? Yeah.

Wow. I must get onto them and see whether I've got one. It says the movie doctors in English and then everything is in Chinese. Oh, okay, fine. But you don't know what it's like inside because the Korean one inside is fantastic. I mean, the design is absolutely brilliant. The very best edition of any book of mine that I have is the Japanese edition of the BFI modern classics on The Exorcist

because the design of it is just astonishingly good. I've got an open one here. Oh, right, fine. And it looks pretty much the same as the UK. So hang on me, you've got two copies of it? I have. I have two Chinese copies. Does it not occur to you that one of them may be mine?

I would imagine the publisher would send you your copies and me, my copies. That's why I haven't got any copies of it. I'll sell you. I could sell you this for the price of a Linda Ruth Williams academic book. Yeah, that'll do fine. So that's 142 quid, is it? Exactly. Plus 50p. Anyway, enough bookshelf and visual banter. It's time that we unveiled what was on the show this week. So, Mark, what are you up to? Well, coming up on the show this week, we have a review of Legends, which is the TV series that you spoke to Steve Coogan about last week. Yes, we both did.

really. We both do. Well, I talked to him about Saipan because at that point I hadn't seen legends, but obviously now I have, or at least I've seen the four episodes that they sent me. Mortal Kombat 2, obviously the sequel to Mortal Kombat, and the sheep detectives. Fantastic. I'm really looking forward to this. It's the sheep detectives. What can I tell you? Written by Craig Mazen. Written by Amazing Craig Mason, yeah? Yes. And the original title was apparently three bags full, but no one, no.

No one thought that anyone would know what it was about. But I suppose the sheep detectives at least says what it's about. Yeah, the Three Bags Full is the title of the book on which it is based. We'll get to all this when we get to the review. Yes, it originally three bags full. And in take two? Reflection in a Dead Diamond, which is a small but really, really interesting kind of horror, adventure, action, super spy, thriller release. And Billy Eilish, hit me hard and soft the tour, live in 3D, directed by,

James Titanic Cameron. Okay, excellent. I should mention, of course, that Ian McKellen is our special guest in this show. Oh, sorry, yes. I'm not quite sure how we forgot that. That's Sir Ian McEllan. Sir Ian McEllen.

Talking about his new film, The Christopher's, which we will review next week when it comes out, although we have both seen it. Which is the new Stephen Soderberg film. Vanguard Easter's get not only take one ad-free, but also a weekly show, take two ad-free.

and if you sign up on our Patreon as an Ultra, you get all that plus our fortnightly extra show, take Ultra, take Ultra. It was a very fine edition last week. It was. Even more of the good stuff. And so if you head over, if you like to join the club,

and I wonder whose patron is better. Ours or Bob Dillan's? Why Bob thinks he needs a Patreon? I'm not at all sure, but... Does Bob Dylan have a Patreon page? Yeah, I mean, essentially, if you're a global superstar, you know, one of the prime movers and shakers

in the world's music. You don't need the support of Patreon, do you? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe he's not getting quite the royalties from... He's permanent touring. An email here from Neil Marshall. What, that Neil Marshall?

Dear Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, it's Neil Marshall. Yes, that Neil Marshall, the same Neil Marshall you thought might be that Neil Marshall last time. It was. Hello, Neil Marshall. So many things.

thanks for reading out my email. Hellboy, dog soldiers, and the dissent, that was him, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, that Neil Marshall, yeah. So many thanks for reading out my email, perhaps lightning will strike twice, and it appears to have done. Recently, I was fortunate enough to see a special screening of Interstellar at the Royal Albert Hall in London, accompanied by a live orchestra and thunderous church organ. The place was packed out, and the audience were truly engaged and respectful of each other and the movie, not a mobile phone insight. At several of the truly intense climactic moments, the entire place burst into spontaneous applause, and it reminded me of what it feels like to share the experience of a great movie

in a way that we don't seem to in regular cinemas anymore. I've been to a few of these events now, and each one leaves me with the same buzz. Clearly, it's a trend that is catching on, as the Albert Hall now has a yearly program of movies with live scores, and I see the O2 Arena has a few on its roster. Perhaps this is one possible future of cinema, regaining its status as a true event. Sure, it's more expensive than a regular cinema, but for a cinephile, it's absolutely worth it. If you haven't attended one of these screenings, I highly recommend it. Of course, it doesn't work for just any movie. Tarantino's films, for example, are mainly filled with needle drops, so they wouldn't work in this context. But anything with a classic score by William

Zimmer, Goldsmith, Morricone, and their ilk. Play Like gangbusters. I quite fancy the Great Escape or the Magnificent Seven this way sometime. That would be amazing. Anyway, keep up the good work. Down with AI and long live the power of cinema, says that Neil Marshall. You know, that one. Well, that Neil Marshall is right that this is

a booming industry. The live scores performed to the film is becoming a really, really big deal. Can I just say that if you're enjoying that, certainly carry on enjoying that, but also have a go at seeing a score perform to a silent film, perhaps a score performed in an improvised fashion by a skiffle band accompanying Neil Brand,

maybe a movie like Beggars of Life or City Girl, which we're going back to Bavaria. We're going back to Bavaria because we did City Girl before. We're going to go and do Beggars of Life quite soon. But it's all about you. Well, no, it's not all about me. It's all about live film music. And this is, as you will know, Simon, if I get a bee in my bonnet about something, I do tend to stick with it.

And I have been going on about live film music for, you know, many, many decades. now, and it is rather wonderful that it is the, you know, the hopes and predictions for it are coming true. And if you ever get a chance to see Neil Brand on his own, I mean, with or without the Dodge Brothers, just to see Neil Brand playing along, particularly to a series of early silent comedy shorts, and do because it's just a wonderful experience, just to see somebody watching a film and playing along to it completely spontaneously. I would have, Neil's in, he, he's. I'm now annoyed having read Neil's email because our interstellar with the orchestra plus the organ, because we talked about this before, that organ is so incredible.

It sounds so amazing on that soundtrack that that would have been unmissable, although sadly I did in fact miss it. Also, Amadeus was also unmissable, and I missed that as well. So the word unmissable is utterly pointless. But that's event cinema. That's what that is. Neil, thank you very much indeed. for getting in touch. Okay, correspondence at conamone.com. Let's talk the sheep detectives. I've only seen the trailer, but I laughed about three times. Okay, the sheep detectives, which is the latest

unexpected careers were from writer Craig Mason, who first rose to prominence with writing credits on scary movie and hangover franchises, both of which were terrible, then stunned everyone with Chernobyl, for which he won a prime time and broadcasting press guild award. And he then moved on to The Last of Us, which I think earned him a pea body. What's next? Well, naturally, when you've done all that, you're going to do an adaptation of Leonie Swans, 2005, family-friendly German-language oddity, Glenn Kil ein Shaft Skrimi, which became an international bestseller, known in English language translations as, as you mentioned earlier, three bags full, a sheep detective story. And funnily enough, my friend's Alan Diego was staying over the weekend. And Diego,

is Argentinian, and three bags full means absolutely nothing. And we're going, you know, three bags full, sir. Yes, sir, no, sir, three bags full, sir. No, absolutely nothing. Hence, a sheep detective story. Best way of describing it is babe meets knives out. So it's directed by Carl Beldar, whose directorial credits include minions, Despicable Me Three, minions, the rise of Gru.

So a big name in animation. The story follows an attempt by a flock of sheep to find out who had the knives out for their beloved shepherd, George, a shepherd who loved them like his own family. Here's a clip. When my chores are finished and the sun starts to sink low in the sky. I choose a book to read out loud to them. Detective novels, mysteries, whodunits, all my favorites. I know when Rodney Hollingshead was murdered and I know who the real killer was.

I like to pretend that they follow along with the story but I know in my heart that as special as they are they're still sheep No no more go on a lot of you I'll read the ending tomorrow But he stopped there He was just about to say who the killer was

This is torture It was the mate, right? The unmistakable voice before we heard the sheep talking because of course they understand everything of Mr Huge Action there. It is, yes, absolutely. The sheep voice cast includes Julie Louie Dreyfus, Brian Cranston, Chris O'Dowd,

Regina Hall, Patrick Stewart, Bella Ramsey, last of us, Reese Darby, and a dual role for Brett Goldstein. The human being cast includes Emma Thompson as Lydia Harbottle, George's lawyer, who turns up to do the reading of the will. Molly Gordon, as Rebecca Hampstead,

the daughter George's friends didn't know about, but who turned up in his locale shortly before the Knives Out thing happened. Nicholas Gallatin is Elliot Matthews, the reporter who thinks there's a story there. Nicholas Braun as the foolish policeman Tim Derry, who is clearly in way over his head and huge action. Now, I didn't know anything like you until I saw the poster in this case,

in which huge action gets a front and centre starring role. But since he is the person at the centre of this murder mystery, he is necessarily absent for a lot of the drama, for if he was not, they would not be a mystery. As I said, I knew nothing about any of this when I went in. I knew the film was called the sheep detectives and had huge action in it. And consequently, I was pretty surprised

by what happened with Mr. Hugh Jackson in the opening overs, you know, the biting the turf fairly honest. But to be honest with you, I was pretty baffled by the whole, thing at least at first, okay? Because I had no idea, despite the title, A, it was going to be a murder mystery, B, that it was going to combine funny CG-talking animals with some Watership Down-style, scary animal horror. I mean, there's a bit when the sheep, our sheep, meet the sheep from the

adjoining field in the middle of the night that honestly have me thinking about George Romero horror movies. There is a touch of the murder she wrote, cozy crime. sleuthing going on. I mean, Cozy Crime is the big genre. If you're writing your next book, Simon, cozy crime, apparently that's the thing. No, it definitely will not be anything like that. Thank you. There is some post-chicken-run, Soylent Green, pro-vegetarian terror about what the other shepherds who don't love their sheep as much as George does or did what those sheep are actually being grown for. There is a bit of genuinely weird family tragedy pathos and then some sort of sheepies Sheepy Shakespearean sacrifice for the greater good.

And there is a whole lot of utterly bonkers plot twists, including a late in the day revelation about the mixing of blue and yellow to make green that had even me going, sorry, just do that again. What's more surprising than any of it? So you said you watched the trailer and you laugh three times, right? I did. When it started, it was like, what on earth is. going on. And I thought there's no way that any of this can work. And the weird thing is,

it really, really does. And I found it really charming and really funny and really moving. I mean, the high caliber pedigree of everyone on screen aside, taking into account the fact that some bits do work better than other bits, much more of it works than doesn't work. And I came out thinking, that was really cute. That was really charming. as I walked out of the screening, one of the PR people was there. And they said, what do you think? I said, it was really cute. And then I caught something.

I think, I can't believe. I just said that was really cute. I mean, the whole thing, the fact that the whole thing pivots on a much loved character, biting the turf early on in the drama, you know, ruthless poisoning. And then much of the rest of the film being spent trying to figure out just how horrible human beings can be. and yet still somehow it manages to be charming. I mean, I had no idea about it going in, and I came out thinking, that's it, it's going to be a hit.

It's going to be a hit, and people are going to really, really enjoy themselves, and it's going to work across a range of ages, despite all that weird stuff. It's PG for mild violence, brief threat and language, and that doesn't come anywhere close to describing how WTF stranger is, but I really enjoyed it. thought was really, really cute. Maybe that's what you make, because you just mentioned all the big things that Craig Mason has done.

Maybe he wouldn't have been able to make it like that if he hadn't done The Last of Us, if he hadn't done Chernobyl, you know, if he'd gone just straight comedy, it wouldn't be quite so strange. He has had the most remarkable career. I mean, it is absolutely unbelievable. When you read, you know, scary movie three,

scary movie four hangover part two hang of a part three the huntsman charlie's angels dune part two that's uncredited uh charlie's angel june part two are uncredited rewrites and then sheep detectives and then on television chanobble the last i mean yeah two of the best i mean he was a guest on the show last year but you know two of the yeah i remember when schnoble came out just jaw on the floor. And I remember interviewing Anthony Horowitz, who said it's probably the greatest television show I have ever seen. And you know, oh, okay, right.

Well, you've written quite a lot, so you know what you're talking about. And it's been on television again recently. Yeah, just astonishing. Just astonishing. Incidentally on the subject of the scary movie movies. Yes. You know, there's a new one on the way.

Great. What's it going to be called? scary movie six i think okay uh still to come i mean sheep detectives there's a very good positive start to the show uh page six mark what's to come after the break after the break we're going to be doing the chart rundown and we're going to be speaking to our very special guest okay that's you is that i am not on page six i'm just making it up no that's that's obviously uh okay read what it says that i'm meant to say steve kugan in crime thrill are legends about a team of undercover civil servants aiming to infiltrate heroin smuggling rings

in the 1990s Mortal Kombat 2, in which the fan favourite champions now joined by Johnny Cage himself are pitted against one another in the ultimate battle to defeat the Dark Rule of Shao Khan that threatens the very existence of the Earth Realm and its defenders. It doesn't have Seria McKellen in it, but we do. Yes, our guest is Seria McKellen will be talking about its new film The Christopher's. Was I meant to read all that out? Apart from the last line, yes. I'm not the presenter. That's your job. It's on page. Anyway, all of that in a minute.

Infamous is the gossip show that's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down top model. We talk about Jenna Jameson and how she dominated the 90s. You know, she's horny and she's in charge. She just was very smart about marketing herself. We talk about celebrities who maybe shouldn't be celebrities, like the Beckham guy. Brooklyn is their first kid. He's had a little bit of the Nepo baby curse.

We investigate orgasm. A woman's erotic power can unlock many other powers in her life. And, of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble. My name is Molly McLaughlin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims. She was defrauding the elderly, and her tagline was the only thing I'm guilty of is being shamazing. Listen to infamous the gossip show that's smart. The show is called Infamous. And next we have the box office top 10, starting at number 10,

which is 10 in this country, as opposed to over there. Rose of Nevada is at number 10. Jordan says, What a refreshing breath of analog air, Mark Jenkin is, in an oppressively digital world. His format and style could easily become tiresome and forcefully retro, but it doesn't even feel anachronistic. In fact, it's so natural and evocative.

I could practically smell the licorice rolling papers. from Jordan. Jonathan says, Dear M&S, I finally got a chance to see Rose of Nevada after missing out on tickets for it at the London Film Festival last year, had been keenly waiting for it to be released in cinemas. It was definitely worth the wait. What some other directors might have portrayed as a cozy, nostalgic fisherman's fable was instead presented as an unsettling misty mystery that felt like a confusing dream where causality and characters have become twisted and interchanged. It was atmospheric and beautiful to watch two. The best accolade I can give it is that after seeing it with the other half last Sunday, we then went to see a different film yesterday,

before which there was a trailer for Rose of Nevada. During the trailer, two of the characters had a short conversation that perhaps gave a clue to the puzzle, which made us both independently realize we had to watch Rose of Nevada again soon. The only negative aspect was that seeing the early 90s being portrayed as the irretrievably distant past made me feel very old. All the best from Jonathan. So that's Rose of Nevada at number 10. Well, I'm just, I'm thrilled that it's, you know, it's had two weeks in the top 10 because that is amazing for a film shot on wind-up clockwork camera.

And it's, I think it's Mark Jenkins' best and most accessible work. Number nine is Lee Cronin's The Mummy. The best review of it was the one that I saw before. the film which said it's the exorcist with bandages and that's exactly what it is. But if you're going to have exorcist rip-offs, this is better than the official exorcist rip-offs like exorcist believer. Number eight here, number nine in Canada is the drama. One of my favorite films of the year, I think, really provocative. I'm really interested to hear what people think after seeing it because I think it raises a bunch of really thorny questions, but it's also really funny and really engaging.

He's got a fantastic central performance by Zendaya and by R-Pats. And, yeah, no, I loved it. Number seven is the Magic Fire Away Tree. Again, look at that. So sheep detectives, which is sure to be top three next week. And Magic Fire Away Tree, which is a terrific, likable, family-friendly movie that I think adults and children alike will enjoy. And number six is Patriots.

Yeah, I haven't seen Patriots. If you have seen it, send us a review. Correspondence at Codomerone. Project Hail Mary is at number four in America. Amaze, amaze. Amazing. Yes, amaze, maize. Number four here, number five over there is Hocum.

Kaza says, what a roller coaster of the film. I was a little uncomfortable with all the awful men at the start, but Ome's redemption arc, that's Ome Bowman's character played by Adam Scott, was subtle enough I didn't notice it happening. After some clever redirection, the halftime twist was pleasantly unexpected, and tension racked up.

steadily. The creepy rabbits heart back to McCarthy's other tales, that's director. Damien McCarthy. Peter says McCarthy is excellent at sustaining dread and using jump scares sparingly, which makes them hit hard when they land. There's also a vein of dry humour, largely by the

central character. The setting does a lot of their heavy lifting, a remote time-forgotten hotel, odd locals and the strong sense that nobody's sane should be staying here. And naturally there's a forbidden honeymoon suite, allegedly haunted, with a locked room, no one will go near, you can guess how well that rule holds.

There is a rare recent horror. This is the rare recent horror that actually got under my skin. Worth your time, if you like your scares. Quiet, ominous and confident, says Peter. So that is Hocum at number four. Yeah, well, I really enjoyed Hocom. Can I just say that I just checked. That film at number five is not called Patriots.

Number six, pardon me. It's not Patriots. It's Patriot singular. Not to be confused. But you haven't seen that one either. I haven't seen that either. Yeah, no, because it wasn't press screen. I was looking at thinking, why haven't I seen it?

It's because it wasn't pressed screen, that's why. Number three, here, number three there, the Super Mario Galaxy movie. Number two, here, number two there. Michael. Is there any correspondence? No. No, fine. Well, in that case, a totally passable nuts and bolts hagiography that leaves

out so much of the story as to be laughable and pretends that its central figure is in fact a latter-day saint sent down to earth to free us all from the bonds of oppression and hardship with some great tunes. There is some conversation about it in the overall, in the overfilled car park or whatever is great. So there are some broader issues related to that, which we will discuss. Gus. Actually, the box office top three, which is the same here as it is over there, are all,

you know, big hitters just measured in terms of people going to see these things. Number one is the devil wears Prada two. Mark Woodruff, I went to my beautiful Ardeco cinema in downtown Los Gatos, California, and quickly noted that this is the oasis reunion of movies. The audience were mainly like me in their 60s looking to relive 20 years ago when everything was, you know, better. This being America, the mark says, I'm English, people dressed up in stilettos and designer outfits.

And that was just the men. And then he puts, in brackets, boom tish here all week. So he's been listening to this show for a while. We were served up Freeman levels of fluff, one for the kids, in this forgettable cheese fest. I can only imagine that the cast were paid obscene amounts of money to block their copybooks with this mess. But there were interesting strands which were never pursued.

sweatshops that make the garments, the ruination of lives in the pursuit of profit, the ageism that exists in creative industries. Like a cheap piece of clothing, these themes just fell apart. However, because we are so invested in these characters, we went along with this self-indulgent slop with inane smiles on our faces. The film only confirmed the golden rule. If the actors seem to be enjoying themselves too much, then the audience won't. That's Mark Woodruff. I mean, I just think it is, I haven't seen it. You have, your review is on last week's program. People are flocking to see these films

and they'll be keeping cinemas going, so well done for them. Yeah, I'm pleased that this has knocked Michael off the top spot, which means that Michael was only at the top spot for one week, although in that one week it took so much money that that is the equivalent of staying at the top spot for several weeks. Devil Wears Prada 2, as I said, when I was reviewing it, it's just plot, plot, plot, plot,

and a bunch of machinations to get everybody in the same room so that they can do the thing that we like them doing. And it makes no sense, and it has none of the kind of classic arc of the first film. But when you've got Meryl Streep and Emily Blunt and Anne Hathaway and those characters, of course there's going to be a certain amount of fun. I actually thought that that review that you just read out was completely spot on. I mean, it absolutely got to it. And I also think that there is something about when times are,

as they are now, that idea of, oh, I just want to see a big bit of... What was the phrase? It was Freeman Levels of Fluff. Freeman Levels of Fluff. Yes, that isn't translate around the world, but... That is a magnificent joke to which I would just like to add. And... Not off.

Yeah. Okay. Well, so that's Super Mario, Michael Jackson and the devil works... Would it be... Just based on what you said last week, I was thinking about your review. Is it more... Is Prada 2? more about journalism than fashion?

No, no. I mean, it's funny because I was talking to somebody about this, and I said, well, the plot stuff is all just fluff. And they said, well, what about the fact that it's about the decline of print journalism and the rise of the intrawbber and journalists losing their job? It's not about that, is it? It's not about any of those things. It's not about any of the things that the plot appears to be about. In the first film, it is about it.

It is about a wide-eyed innocent coming into a world that they believe will be one thing, being scared of and eventually overcoming their fear of a dragon lady who is at the center of that world. That's not. In the case of this, the plot is nothing other than a bus system. It is like a tube map to get character A into a room or a Cludo thing. You know, if we got to get reverent green in the room with the hammer and the bit of piping, that's all it is. So it's not actually about any of those things. Although it does lip service to the idea that, oh, it's about journalism, it isn't. It isn't about anything.

It's not about journalism. It's not about fashion. It's not about sweatshops. It's not about any of those things. It's about getting those characters that you liked before in a drama that had a story back into a series of rooms so they can do some things that you like watching them do. That's it. Okay.

And it's at number one, correspondence at covenomere.com. And you are just moments away from a conversation with. Living Legend, Sir Ian McKellen. Well, our guest this week is one of Britain's most distinguished stage and screen actors. Stand by for a conversation with Sir Ian McKellen. He's going to be with us very shortly. His latest role is in Stephen Soderberg's new film The Christopher's is a clip from the film, and then we talk to us, Ian.

All right, and while you're out, shall I rustle us up something? A little omelette. You're gonna make me an omelette? Don't sound so surprised. Alright, then I'll have a cheese omelette? Cheese omelet. That's an omelette with cheese? Yeah.

Actually, how do you introduce the cheese into the omelette? I'm just gonna pick something up for us, yeah? Yeah. Excellent team, Wari. And that is a clip from The Christophers. I'm delighted to say, been joined by Sir Ian McEllen. So, Ian, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. I was going to say welcome to the podcast.

You're always welcome, but you've welcomed us into your pub. You're in the grapes in Limehouse, yes, yes. And I don't think I've ever done an interview in a pub before. And you don't even have a drink, but maybe later on. Maybe later on. And the poster of the Christopher's with Michaela Cole sitting in front of a wonderful oil painting. Yes. I hope you've got the original.

No, I haven't got it. And I haven't even seen it. But I've only seen the poster. Well, you absolutely need to have that. That sums it up, really. It sums up the film. It's very good. But on a podcast, we need to use some words as well.

So what are the Christophers? The Christophers are a series of paintings, which my character painted some time ago and abandoned. And they're up in his attic somewhere in his ramshackle house and I'm not quite sure where it is in the middle of London somewhere. And his two greedy children are eager to rescue these, what they hope are masterpieces,

so that they can sell them when he dies. The trouble is they're not masterpieces, because they're not finished. They're paintings that he began and didn't complete. More than that, you needn't know. And you play Julian Scar. So how would you, how would you, do you? describe he's an artist but there's a lot going on there well he's not David Hockney and he's not Francis Bacon who used to live next door incidentally and he's not

any painter who lives but you feel as if he might be rather grumpy in his old age lives by himself it's all over he thinks and he's a sad man, lonely, and into his life walks this amazing woman who he spars with and I think eventually in a way I fought in love with. Yes. Would you say he's calcified? I mean, he feels as though Julian feels as though he's a very famous painter. He has been a very famous painter.

Well, what happened to him? Did he get cancelled or what was it that has happened to him, which has kind of frozen him from, you know, 20, 30 years? A lover walked out in him, and it devastated him. Cautisfied, no, I think he's still quite juicy, but the juice is wasted. It runs away into the gut of it. It's not put into his work.

He hasn't really, he hasn't painted anything for a long time. Is that believable? Yes, I think so. I think as you get old, you decide, am I going to go on or am I going to look back all the time? and he's static and comes back to life, I think, through his meeting with this remarkable young girl.

And the remarkable woman is Michaela Cole who plays Laurie. She's been sent by your ghastly children, played by James Corden and Jessica Gunning, and explain what, because it becomes something else, but she's on a mission. She's basically trying to swindle you, isn't she?

Well, it's a bit of a thriller, So we can't give too much away. All right. But yes, she's an agent of the two dreadful children. And she comes to try and rescue these unfinished paintings, the Christophers that are upstairs, so that she can do something with them. We shouldn't say what.

But the plot gets nicely complicated and the old boy is trying to work out what she's doing here in this house. and although he welcomes her, he resents her at the same time. The atmosphere between the two of you is fantastic. You spark off each other wonderfully, written by Ed Solomon. I think everyone who watches it will think this must have been written for you, Ian. This is a fantastic role for you. Well, directors and writers do often pay you that compliment.

and I never quite believe it. But in this case, as they say, they wrote it for the two of us. Yes, it was absolutely written for her. So I'm happy to accept that it was written for me. But I can proudly say that I wrote one of the best jokes in the movie. I'm not going to tell you what it is. Okay.

If people can hear a whining noise, I imagine something in the pub has turned on, like the air conditioning or something. Yes, don't worry about that. We can carry on. So when you say you wrote one of the best jokes, see the movie, to, it is a funny, it is a funny film, it is darkly comic.

I saw an interview with you in where you said you have learned to be funny, which kind of implied that you weren't funny. Is that something that you... Well, I've learned not during the course of this film, during the course of a career. And when I started out, you used to get this, the script of a play that had been done previously in the West End,

and you'd be doing some paltry revival for two weeks in Coventry. And the script would be marked with asterisks. And if there was one asterisk by a line, it meant that you were expected to get a laugh from the audience. Two, asterisks, a bigger laugh. Three, a really big laugh. Four, applause. Okay.

Well, that's very daunting, because the laugh line might be, hello, and you're baffled as to how on earth that could be funny. Well, the truth of it is that truth is the heart of comedy. Unless you're being absolutely real, you won't be funny. And although there are techniques of comedy like a double take, you have to think a double take, you can't just do it. Otherwise, it's not funny. So I learned over a long period to be at ease with making people laugh.

And now I think that's the most enjoyable thing about acting, particularly in the theatre. Is the Stephen Soderberg film? What is it like to make a film with Stephen Soderberg? You know, when you're on set, I mean, most of the set is in a house. So it feels like a chamber piece, really, like a two-handed. Well, you feel like you're a guest in his house. in his film even inside his head and you're at his service and that's a very happy position to be in

as an actor because he's very confident as what he wants and he lets you know if he's got it or if he hasn't um that said he's not eager to do much preparation with the actors in advance the script is there and you're expected to have prepared it somehow on your and just arrive and be ready to film and that's not how I've worked in the past and I said I do need a bit of preparation a bit of rehearsal so he let me the at Solomon the screenplay writer and Mikala and he came around to my house next door and me sat around the table for a week talking about the script and reading it and amending it adding bits and removing bits and at the end of the day

This work was sent over to the director for his approval, which invariably we got. And so that's how we prepared. But the actual filming was down to work straight away. And if he got what he needed, and he knew, because he was holding the camera and moving it around with the actors, there was no need to repeat it a second time. And it's usual when you're making a film to do it at least once or twice or three or four times.

I remember on Lord of the Rings with Peter Jackson, Christopher Lee is saying to me, Lord, I said, I had to do that scene ten times. I said, that's nothing. I did a scene yesterday 28 times. But Soderberg, no, once and you're off. Home at three o'clock in the afternoon, and he goes back and edits.

Literally, the day's work cuts it in his mind and in fact. So by the end of the film, he has completed basically his work on it, which is extremely unusual. So that's a sign of his confidence and the accuracy of his eye, which is beautifully seen in the film. He is a character in the film, really. He's an observer. Is he fulsome in his praise?

Falsome? Is he fulsome in his praise? Does he praise you a lot or does he just expect you to get on with this? I don't think he ever told me I was good. But I was warned about this. If he walked out of the room, that was high praise

because it meant we were on to the next thing. You mentioned Lord of the Rings and 28 takes or whatever. If I've got your diary right, you've done Avengers and you're going to do Gandalf, so the robes beckon again. It must be wonderful to be here in your pub to be. be doing a film which I think is going to win all over the place

and be in your own bed and in your own pub. It must be a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, you can't just see, but just round the corner is Gandalf's staff to keep the hobbits and the imbibers in order. Yes. So even more at home. Yes.

Well, let's have off in the summer, although it'll be in New Zealand's winter, to do anti-circuces. This is version of Lord of the Rings. And are you excited about that? Less than I would be if we were doing it in their summer, when New Zealand looks magnificent, it's windy and it's cold and it's wet.

But I guess we'll be indoors most of the time, perhaps not on location as much as in the past. It'll be lovely to be back with the old team, but not many of the previous actors, some, but not many. And how long does that shoot take? I'll be there for three months, I think. Right, yeah. The heart of the Christopher's is sort of unfinished work.

That's one of the things that it's about these paintings that are upstairs, which we do get to see. And I wonder, do you have unfinished work that you would like to go back to? You know, that you started or you would think, I would like to finish that. I suppose I do, really. Working mainly as I do in the theatre, of course you have many chances to improve. And sometimes you might play a part, a big part, like King Lear a hundred times. And being me, I am better on the hundredth performance than I was on the first night.

Well, there are some parts that you feel even after you've closed in the long run that there was still more work to be done. I felt that very much when I fell off the stage as a false staff in Player Kings, Rob Ike's version of Henry IV by Shakespeare. I was robbed of the last month of the run when I could have perhaps nailed false stuff. You want to go back? I do and I don't.

Hamlet, which I played when I was 29, a good age to play Hamlet, I felt was unfinished business. and I came around to do it again when I was 82 on film and on stage. And I think King Leo, although I've done it twice, I may return to. I think that may be my next job in the theatre, trying to see what I didn't quite mind. These parts, you know, I'm talking about Shakespeare and Chekhov,

they are, you'll never get to the bottom of them. So if you go back thinking you've already played it well, you'll find new stuff to do. How wonderful to still be looking for new stuff and still be improving and still getting great roles. What's how some of I'm going to do with my life, you know? You could stand behind the bar. I used to run the quiz in the Monday night quiz here.

And I took a day each week to think up the questions. And I was behind the bar and I loved doing it. But my partners who had the license to the pub sacked me. They didn't think my performance was good enough. So I now come as an audience. But I had Derek Chackabby behind here asking the questions, isn't it? Pat Stewart was here.

Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, if I may be so bold, I would suggest that BAFTAs and Oscars might be on the cards. I know it's probably bad luck to talk about that kind of stuff, but this movie and your role in it just feels like it's got hit. Well, I'm very happy to hear that. happy, of course, but, and I have read the reviews because they send them to me. And I'd never

been in the show, which has had such universally, words of approval, a lot in America. I think that's because Soderberg is such a fascinating director that the critics, experts on film, respond positively. We'll see if the public does, and they have done in America. It's been very good. But it's English. It's written by an American, directed by an American. It's a London movie. It is very much so. It couldn't be anywhere else. Julian is a very English man. And the glimpses you see of London physically and the characters you feel, yeah, this could not be set in Chicago or San Francisco or. Sydney. It's a London movie, as much as Manhattan. There's a movie about New York. And it's a great film. Ian McKellen, thank you very much for talking to us.

Thank you, Simon. They always entertaining Sir Ian McKellen talking about his new movie, The Christopher's. It's going to be reviewed next week. We've both seen it. And I thought, as I think you could tell from that conversation, I really, really enjoyed it. It is a very, very Ian McKellen performance. Yes, and without sort of blowing the surprise, of the review next week. I think it is the most

Macellen I've seen and it's not giving a whole bunch of way to say I too very much enjoyed it. Yeah, he's just, it is, it is him. It is impossible to think of anyone else. How much more Ian McKellen could it be? None, none more Ian McKellen.

Okay, full review of the Christopher's coming on next week's program. So let's talk about legends then because you've heard from Stephen Coogan, he was on last week's show, because of all the various, you know, restrictions and embargoes. Mark wasn't allowed to review it, but he can now. Yes, so this is the new Netflix series from Neil Fawcite, the author and screenwriter and creator of British television shows such as the Gold, Guilt and Bob Seven Independent. This is on Netflix, and you and I, I think, have both seen, well, I've seen four episodes. How many did you see?

I think the same. Yes. And at the point that we're recording this show, I am really desperate for more episodes to drop. So if you heard the Steve Coogan interview last week, you'll know some of this. If you didn't hear it, do go back and listen to it, because it's a great interview.

So Legend is loosely based on a true story. Steve Coogan plays head of customs operations, Don Clark, in the early 90s, in what Coogan in that interview referred to as the last hurrah of the Thatcher era, a period in which she needed a crisis she could solve. And that crisis was seen to be the infamous war on drugs, specifically in the case of this heroin. So what we see is the government task in customs with stemming

or stopping the flow of drugs into the UK, which is a very, very hard task, and involves recruiting customs officers, for special undercover assignment, despite the fact that these customs officers have no training in that area. So, as Steve Coogan was saying, effectively, it's like taking people who are baggage handlers and saying to them, well, we'd like you to be undercover cops. Here is a clip in which Tom Hodges' high-ranking civil servant basically explains the mission.

For anyone who doesn't know me, I am Angus Bligg. Director of Investigations for Her Majesty's Customs. This is my head of operations, Don Clark. Right. We're holding a three-week top-secret training program for new recruits, and are looking throughout the agency for those who we think might offer us what we need to attempt something we've never done before. What's the investigation?

Did you miss the secret bit? For security reasons, only those who complete the three weeks will learn what the investigation entails. Would this be a promotion? For some, it would technically be a demotion. Where's the training? It's a residential program. Is that overtime then? No.

Well, if it's residential training, it has to be overtime. We can't take you if you're deaf, mate. Would we get a per diem? A per what? Lunch money. Lunch money. Why are you 12? If you've asked a question, then please leave the room.

I was laughing all the way through that, and I could see you were to the... How old are you, 12? I know, also the dour sound of Steve Gook and going, which part of secret did you not? understand. So exactly, ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances. And those ordinary people are played by such top-notch talent as Tom Burke and Haley Squires, you know, both fabulously. As far as Don is concerned, which is the character played by Steve Coogan, he's in charge of this operation. He has a sort of jaded, world-weary view of life. And we learn over the episodes that

have seen so far that he has experience himself in having gone undercover. And we learn that in his own experience of going undercover, he found out what a toll that can take. So it's his job to help select and train the operatives, to teach them to become legends. And the title, legends, that refers to the identities that they have to assume as their alter egos. And the whole point is that in order for the alter ego thing to work, you have to believe in it. So you have to create a character that will stand up under scrutiny. And during the episodes, you see that scrutiny being quite perilous. But it also means that you have to create a character that has the danger of taking over your life. You have to commit to it. I think the phrase that you use was that they have

to lean into it. And as I said, Steve Coogan's character already has experienced how that can take over your life. And he knows that when he's recruiting these people who are effectively rookies in this area, that they're not all going to be able to walk away from it with ease. In fact, if they do their job properly, they're going to become immersed in a world that they have never encountered before. And they're not just going to be able to leave it behind and go home. So there is a whole thing going on in this, which is there is a commitment being made by these people who at the beginning don't know what it is. What's the mission?

Which part of secret didn't you understand? We'll only tell you what the mission is if you get through the training. But in doing that, in getting through the training, in kind of becoming hooked on the mission, they are already committing to something that might have life-changing consequences. So the story plays out between London, Liverpool,

Turkey, which is where the drugs are coming from. You heard from that clip that a lot of the dialogue is kind of witty and satirical. I think the phrase that Steve Coogan used, he said it's light. There is a lightness of touch. He had a brilliant phrase, which was a stone skipping lightly over deep waters.

Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that works very well. But I also think what he didn't quite flag up was how edge of the seat gripping some of it is, which leads me to my complaint about episode four, because when I saw that I'd been given four episodes, I thought the whole thing was four episodes long.

So I binge-watched the four episodes and was then really, really disappointed to find it. No, I'm not at the end. In fact, at the end of episode four, it's like, now, okay, I need to know what happens next. You can't leave Bulldog Basil there. You can't leave Bulldog Basil. Rebustrous.

Wow. So so far, we've done a Fluff Freeman joke and a Basil brush joke. Yes, yes. And last week we did Flanders and Swan and The Goon Show. More on that in take two. Heaven's sake. In that interview that you did with Steve Kahnem, I was in it, but I wasn't talking about the TV stuff.

He was saying that, you know, that obviously as far as the character is concerned, it's fairly close to home, certainly in terms of accent, although he did say that he sort of northerned it up a little bit. And he also used a fabulous phrase, which was, he said that there is this maxim in my profession, which is ready, fire, aim, which I absolutely loved. But it also says something, it's not just about the technique of acting, but it's also something about the situation that these characters find themselves in. Ready, fire, aim is they sort of train for this thing and get approved, and then they're told what it is.

And they're only really aiming at the point that they're on the job. So I was swept up in it. I was really swept up in it. I mean, yes, it's witty. Yes, it's, you know, and saying, as I said, listening to that clip then, there was a couple of really good laughs in it. But it's also really gripping. Tom Burke is amazing, but he's amazing in everything.

Halie Squires is amazing and everything. And I think for Coogan, this is a really interesting role because although there are comedic elements to the drum, it's a straight role. And he was saying in his interview with you that later life has brought him more interesting roles. And I think that's true. I think he's got to the point now

when he is getting these kind of naughty, slightly gnarly characters. And he's doing it really well. I mean, he has a resting dower face that's exactly right. but I don't want to want to play just how, I don't know whether you agree with this, but I found there were several sequences in it which I thought were really properly edge of your seat tension. Yes, and because, again, we mentioned it in the interview, Undercover is something that we've seen done many, many times. Yeah.

But it's always trained cops or spies or something so they know what they're doing. These people really don't. I mean, they're pretty, they're good, but they've had a couple of minutes of training. and then all of a sudden they're on a stakeout. And so therefore you're thinking, that's me. You know, you empathize with them in a way that you would never do with a spy or a cop, I think. Yeah, absolutely. And that whole thing about by the time they know what it is that they're being required to do, they are already doing it.

So although, yes, there is the whole thing about you have to volunteer for this, they don't know what they're volunteering for. and at the point that they are that they're agreeing, they're already in it. And no, I really enjoyed it. And I really want the rest of the episodes to drop now, please. Legends is new on Netflix. Let us know what you think. Correspondents at covenomero.com.

Well, let's tread lightly then. Mark has been entertaining us and making us jortle all the way through the show. But now it's the real hardcore stuff. We step with gay abandon into the much-loved laughter lift. Well, hey Mark. Hey, son. What do you call a bovine French philosopher? You're right.

Albert Camus. I jumped in because you would probably work that out very, very quickly. Okay. Good. I went to the doctors this week for a digestion issue. And she asked me for a stool sample. I'm way ahead of you, doctor, I said, and I pulled out a Ziploc bag full of tiny seats without back support or armrests.

And she threw me out. I still have no idea why I'm pooping out tiny eyes. items of furniture. Time to change doctors, I think. But Mark, did you hear about the bloke who collapsed trying to climb Mount Everest? I didn't. Authorities just found Himalayan there.

That's quite good. That's as good as it gets, anyway. What's still to come, page 12? Mortal Kombat with a K-2. Starring Carl Urban, is it that one? So in Carl with a K, Urban. On the way. So Moulton Come back with a K in just a moment.

Dom from London, first of all, dear Slati Bartfast and the hippopotamus. Long-term listener's second-time email. I think we've promoted this from Take 2. I've always enjoyed the references to Flanders and Swan and Douglas Adams on the podcast. Oh, good. And the evident affection you hold for these giants of British comedy.

Usually I'm content to chuckle along, but last week's show prompted me to write, not only for the rare double-sighting of Flanders and Swan and Hitchhiker's guide, but for Mark's claim that Simon's canother Kamu gag only applies to quote very very old listeners while i'm not trying to while i'm not going to cancel my subscription in offence i want you to know you have at least one listener in his early 30s who's caught every allusion to the ganoo the hippopotamus deep thought and slaty bartfast

thanks to tapes and CDs played relentlessly by my parents i've been devoted to both flanders and swan and hitchhikers since childhood two examples illustrate this At 11, I entered my school talent contest, not with violin or yo-yo tricks, but an unaccompanied, from-memory performance of the Gasman Cummeth to a baffled hall of children. The applause was fitful, but I somehow won first prize, still a point of pride. And the Gasman Cummeth is a famous Flanus and Swan song.

I think it was even like a hit. Like it was on a, it was a 45. And during a PSHE lesson on the life-educated, I didn't know there was such thing as a... Did you have a life education bus in your day, Mark? I've never heard of such thing, no. Anyway, Dom from London has travelled on the life education bus. I was asked what alcohol was, and I replied via the Encyclopedia Galactica,

a colourless volatile liquid intoxicating to certain carbon-based life forms. Which is Douglas Adams. An awkward silence followed the teacher staring at me with an apparent combination of amusement and fear. Eventually she gathered herself and I wasn't called on to answer any more questions for the remainder of the class. So keep up the good work. At least one millennial knows exactly what you're on about. Up with mud, glorious mud and down with vogue on poetry. All the best, Dom from London. Okay, well, very good. Let's assume that our gags from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s are all understood by everybody.

Can I, what's the name of the, what's the name of the cocktail in Hitchhack's Guide to the Galaxy? So the effect of which is like having your brain smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a gold brick. Yes, you'll have to look it up. It's called, I can't remember what is called. It's a regular feature. I used to be able to do the whole of the, you know, the, the imiturations are to me like Gerbal, Lurgy, Bludge, Honest Lurgy, B, frupe, I implore thee, and hootiously drangle me with, remember that?

There's the Vogue on poetry. And then at the end of it. Shall I look it up? I'm looking at up. Okay. Pangalactic gargleaster. Pan-galactic gargleblaster. I knew it had that.

The pan-galactic gargallaster, the effect of which is like having your brain smashed out with a slice of lemon wrapped around a gold brick. Perfect. Incidentally, very quickly, if you are a fan of the Flanders and Swan, and if you are a fan of the stuff that we've been talking about, there is an LP which I think you can probably download called Hoffnung at the Oxford Union, which is Gerard Hoffnung at the Oxford Union in 1958, which is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. And that's got amazing stuff on it that if you love Flanders and Swan, you will love Hoffnung at the Oxford Union, which begins with him coming on stage and saying, I am Gerard Hoffnung, Gerard, after my father, and Hoffnung. After Gerard.

There you go. And this is his classic kind of 1950s comedy, which actually still holds up. It really does. Really, really does. A century later. Okay, so Mortal Kombat with a K. Off we go.

So the Mortal Kombat video game series came to the cinema at first in the mid-90s during that wave of very, very terrible mid-90s video game adaptations, which included the Bob Hoskins Super Mario Brothers and Street Fighter. And I remember reviewing it when it came out, because I think we must have been at Radio One together. I said that by comparison with those other movies, the original Mortal Kombat, which was Paul W.S. Anderson and Chris Lambert,

it wasn't bad. I mean, it wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible. And then there was the sequel, which was a flop, and that kind of killed off the franchise. And then in 2021, when we were now in sort of the current way that we do the show, there was a new Mortal Kombat movie, directed by Simon McQuide, and it was co-produced by James One,

Saw and Insidious, co-written by Greg Russo. And it sort of, it kind of breathed new life into the franchise. He had Lewis Tan as Cole Young, who's a cage fighter, who finds himself drawn into this world that is explained to him by Jessica McNamee's Sonia Blade. And so that was quite good. And it was like, okay, fine, this is getting closer to the ethos of the video game. So now Sonya Blade is back in Mortal Kombat 2, which is written.

by Jeremy Slater, as is Cole, as is Josh Lawson's impressively obnoxious Cano, who's the loudmouthed Australian. There is any other kind of Australian who got all the best lines in the first film. So the first film, if I remember correctly, it ended with Cole going off in search of Johnny Cage. Now, the reason I remember something about this was there was a whole bunch of stuff around the first film about why Johnny Cage wasn't in it. And we were told that the reason Johnny Cage wasn't in it was because he was

was a giant personality in inverted commas that would throw the film out of ballots. Well, here, that giant personality is played by Carl with the Cape Urban, whose Johnny Cage we meet as a washed up B-movie actor failing to sell his old movies at fan conventions. He was once a great black belt fighter. Then he became a movie star who fought battles while wearing black sunglasses, looking like, you know, like Tom Cruise in risky business. Now he's a nobody, except apparently to gods of fate who decide that he is the person who is needed to join the champions of Earth Realm, which is in danger of falling into the hands of evil Shaq Khan. Here is a clip from the movie. Now, I should say, this clip actually comes from very near the end of the movie, but it's not a

plot spoiler. It's just an indication of the general time. You want to know what makes a hero? It's not destiny. It's not something you're born with. and searching for greatness Johnny Cates you have been chosen for more to combat then realizing you've had it in you this entire time

there we go and then there are some gags so the cast now also includes Tati Gabriel and Adeline Rudolph as Jade and Kitana respectively which fulfills the director had said from the previous film if I do another one

I'm going to go deeper into the mythology and also I'm going to have more female characters, which this does. So as with the 2021 reboot, this is impressively blood splattered. There's lots of kind of squishy violence. There's lots of gratuitous. I mean, albeit CGI, gratuitous gore,

or at least as much of it as you can get away within a 15 certificate film. I mean, the age of the video and asked this would have been prosecuted under the Obscene Publications Act. Now it is 15 for strong, bloody violence, in frequent very strong language. So it's got the same thing that the first one had. I mean, the script is witty.

I have to say, I think Carl Urban is great, but Urban and Lawson in particular playing things for laughs. They hit many good home runs. I laughed quite a few times. As for the action, there's lots of that thing that you do in the video games in which people jump or fall completely unconvincingly from one level to another, but in a way that's kind of okay because it sort of makes sense

in terms of the origin story. There's an array of entertaining weaponry including robot arms, laser eyes, smashy hammers, fighty sticks and most remarkably bitey hats. The production design is sort of like the Mad Max movie meets Warcraft, the movie, and under two hours, the whole thing doesn't outstay,

it's welcome. I saw this in a multimedia screening. They had a national press show, which was one for it was just for critics, but because of the way that the day worked out yesterday. I saw it in a multimedia, which means there's a whole bunch of people. And when you go in, they sort of give you like a bucket of popcorn, like literally a bucket of popcorn, which has got the collectible bucket.

And it seemed to play really well with the audience. And despite the fact that it was later in the evening, which is always a pain for me, because then I've got to get the train back afterwards, I found the time skipped by it and I enjoyed it. I laughed quite a few times. I thought that the squishy gaw was fun. I mean, 10 minutes afterwards, it was hard. to remember much significant about it, so I made my notes immediately,

but I thought it was generally smashy, bashy fun. When you started talking about, I did think you were talking about Keith Urban, not Carl Urban. Oh, Keith Urban, yeah, that's a very different matter. A country singer, married to Nicole Kidman for 20 years. Yes, so it's not him. Not him, not him, Carl Urban. Is there any country in Western music in this at all? No, at least, no, not the top of my head, no, I don't believe so, no.

I interviewed him once many years ago back at, I think it was Radio 2. And Keith or Cole. Keith, definitely. Keith Urban. And the plugger, the record promotions guy who was with him, kept on saying to me, you can't call him a country artist. You mustn't mention country because he's crossover. You know, he's a pop star.

You can't mention his country. So, okay, fine, whatever. So, you know, play a song. Keith Urban, not. Carl Urban, welcome to the show. You know, how would you describe your record? And he says, well, it's a country record, really. Okay, there you go.

See, it's absolutely fine. He was absolutely perfectly fine with reference to country. And it was just the promotions. They were trying to make him as a crossover artist. Anyway. When I interviewed Angelina Jolie for the Culture Show, I was told you cannot mention hackers and you cannot mention a relationship with,

oh, heaven's sake, him from hackers. No, no, no, from train spotting. You know, squeeze. Pardon me? Glenn Tilbrook. No, not Glenn Tilbrook. Sorry, I'm literally having a senior moment. People listening to this will hear Mark having a senior moment.

She's going to look up, what's the name of the guy, Johnny Lee Miller, okay? He said, you can't mention hackers and you can't mention Johnny Lee Miller. And literally to whom, you know, Angelina, I think she was married to him. And Angelina Jolie, almost the first thing she said was, I hear you're a fan of hackers. I love that film. I met my first husband on that film. There you go. Exactly right. What a good film that is.

And I mentioned Screeze because they've got the playout track on the soundtrack. They have, absolutely. That's right, yes. Yes, he was married to Angelina Jolie, 1996 to 2000, and she brought it up. She was very delighted to talk about it. And I said, I love that film. She said, great, so do I.

Before we're done, let's do a quick What's On then. Thank you very much indeed for the audio and video stuff that's coming in. We have one here from Alex Scarrot. Hello, Mark and Simon. Love the podcast. Hope you can do a shout out for our play at Bright Fringe this year, Sherlock Holmes versus Arson Lupin,

a drag crime caper. It's a new comedy pitting England's most famous consulting detective against France's most infamous gentleman burglar. And it's running from the 16th to the 21st of May at Brighton Fringe. We hope we can see you there. Thank you so much. Well, thank you very much. Sherlock Holmes

versus Arsend Lupin, a drag crime caper, Brighton Fringe, 16th to the 21st of May. Okay, so that. That is it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team was Jen, Eric, Josh, Heather and Dom. Before we go, thanks to Jeff Bartrup for letting us know about an old engineering colleague, Ian Dealey, who passed away recently. He will be missed. But thanks very much for telling us about that. The redacted to the show was, as ever, Simon Paul, who was here this week. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast. Come and join us on Patreon for all the good stuff there. Mark, what is your film of the week? My film of the week is the sheep detectives And those are not words I ever thought I would say out loud So say that sentence again

My film of the week, Simon, is the sheep detectives Excellent Correspondence at cowermede.com is where you take part in the show Also on Patreon I will bestow a year's ultra membership To our correspondent of the week Who I think has to be Dom from London The Douglas Adams and Flanders and Swan references

That was great A go-go Thank you very much indeed for listening. There is another take which has landed alongside this one.