Kermode & Mayo’s Take - TEENAGE SEX AND DEATH AT CAMP MIASMA: The most Mark film evz? + Johnny Flynn

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show - a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. Our special guest this week is Johnny Flynn, who stars in & Sons—A dysfunctional family drama with a twist. His character Richard is one of three long suffering sons to Billy Nighy’s A.N. Dyer, a mega-successful novelist turned alcoholic recluse and personal disaster zone. Johnny chats to Simon about the movie, its unusual filmmaking process, and working alongside Nighy, Imelda Staunton, George McKay and Noah Jupe as part of its all-star ensemble cast. Plus we hear a little about his upcoming performances as Paul Simon in South-African-set drama The Road Home, as a beleaguered sheriff in western A Prayer For The Dying, as Dostoevsky in The Idiots, and as Lucuis Malfoy (i.e. Jason Isaacs) in Harry Potter. I do wish someone would give this lad a bit of work, he must be desperate for something to get his teeth into… Mark reviews & Sons, as well as two more of the week’s most exciting titles. First up, Coyote vs Acme, a live action animation hybrid that sees Looney Tunes’ murderous canine Wile E. Coyote return to the screen in a meta legal drama with the suppliers of his ever-malfunctioning gadgets. Plus, Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma (one film not two), a meta-slasher starring Gillian Anderson in which a film director becomes obsessed with casting her ‘final girl’ in a classic horror sequel. The most Mark film evz? We’ll find out. All that plus the Laughter Lift, the return of Simon after Sanjeev’s super subbing last week, and of course your witty, erudite and delightful correspondence. Keep the postbag full please gang! You can find out more about Medi Cinema and donate here: https://www.medicinema.org.uk You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo. A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Our Christmas Movie Spectacular is back! It’s in Bristol this year on Sunday 6th December. Don’t miss it! Here’s the link for tickets: https://www.fane.co.uk/kermode-and-mayo Timecodes: 00:06:25 Coyote vs Acme Review 00:14:25 Box Office Top Ten 00:26:58 Johnny Flynn interview 00:42:43 & Sons review 00:59:09 Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma review Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Molly Sims from Lipsick on the Rim. Between the kids to travel and just trying to keep some kind of a routine going, fall gets chaotic fast. I've gone through every wellness trend out there, and honestly, I've landed on caring more about what's sustainable than what's trendy. That's why the multi-collegin protein from ancient nutrition has become part of my everyday routine because it's not just collagen. It's real food collagen sources paired with vitamin C and probiotics, so my body can actually put it to use. 10 types of collagen, 20 grams per two, scoops, hydrolyzed so it's easier to absorb. You can start it into your morning coffee, blend it into a smoothie, or even bake with it. However it fits in your day is how it's

supposed to work. It's grass-fed, pasture rays, and free of gluten, soy, and dairy, so I'm not trading one worry for another. It's the kind of thing I add once and just stick with, and it supports your joints, skin, hair, nails, and gut all in one scoop. If you've been cycling through trends looking for something that actually feels sustainable, this might be the one that sticks for you too. Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research.

Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, Schmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit-related devices.

There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available wherever you get your podcasts. if you're already a vanguard Easter, we salute you. So there I was on holiday reading The Exorcist. And it was amazing. And I took a photograph and I'm not really very good on Instagram. I know you've been doing it for hundreds of years. I'm just getting, you know, I'm just getting the hang of it.

And of all the things I did, the photograph of me reading the Exorcist has been seen by more people than anything else. I'm trying to promote my blooming paperback black tag edition But that was seen by a few people But me reading The Exorcist And looking scared Was very much loved Well the other thing The other thing that happened was

After you put it up in my phone I always had to turn it off Just ping ping ping ping Have you seen Simon Mayer's reading the exes I'm getting no he's not He's not It's a joke It's just came in the thing

He's not It's just a prop It's just a thing Bing Bing Bing Bing Bing Simon Meyer's reading the exorcist Well I mean I was I read the first page and then I thought

I'm going to keep this for you because it's a brand new edition. It's a, no, well, thank you. It's a very good first page, incidentally.

And it's yours. Okay, what are we reviewing today then? Well, I'm really glad you asked me that, Simon. We are going to be reviewing Coyote v. Acme,

which is a film we almost didn't see because the distributors tried to shelve it and write it off as a tax loss. We will be reviewing teenage sex and death at Camp Miasma and,

That's one film. I thought we were doing a movie called Teenage NX. And also a movie called Death at Camp Myasma. I thought it was... There's two movies there. It's a double bill. Yeah, it is. So teenage sex and death at Camp,

either Miasma or Miasma. I have to say they do say it both ways in the film itself. And we'll be reviewing And Sons. That's the name of the film, And Sons, with our very special guest. And the And is an ampersand and, as opposed to just and. Yes.

Yes. Yes, Johnny Flynn, one of the stars of that film. There are lots of very big stars in that film, Johnny Flynn being one of them. And in Take 2, what's going on there? In Take 2, Mutiny, which is the new film starring Jason Seytham, and stop that train. The film that we will not be reviewing this week is a film called Spa Weekend. And let me explain how this works. So if you're listening to this on Friday, well, if you listen to it on Friday,

you will have noticed that there are probably reviews of spa weekend. And I have no idea what those reviews are going to be like. I saw spa weekend on Tuesday. And as I went in, I was asked to sign an embargo. And I said, fine. When is it until? I said, I don't know. So, okay.

But it's like it opens on Friday. So yeah, we know. Right. So we record our show on Wednesday. Yes. And it goes live. It's 12 o'clock Thursday. So it's not going to be a problem, is it?

I'm not like, I mean, most of the embargoes are, you know, you can't do it until the beginning of the end of Tuesday. It'll be fine. So I go in and I watch the movie, which I can't tell you anything about, because yesterday it was announced that the embargo would not lift until 5 a.m. on Friday morning, which is after this show has dropped. And we had an email from the distributors explaining that that meant that we couldn't review the film that I spent. spent a couple of hours of my life watching. I can't tell you what I think of the film that I spent a couple of hours of my life watching. I also can't tell you whether or not the fact that the embargo has been pushed right back to the morning of release has anything to do at all with the way the distributors imagine the film might be received. I can't tell you any of that.

No. Because obviously, I have no opinion on spa weekend, which I have seen, but I am not allowed to tell you about, because you might be listening before 5am on Friday. Mark, we'll think about it once the embargo has lifted and we can talk about it next week. I'm reminded that there are just a few tickets left for the Brizzle-Krizzle, the Bristol Beacon, December 6th, 7pm. That's where we are. Matt in Bristol.

Dear, which one is Mark and which one is Simon? Matt here, long-term listener and all that. My son, Luca, is neurodivergent and has ADHD and struggles with anxiety. Here's a few things that get to Luca. The way of the world, other humans, loud noises, and falling to sleep. Things that don't get to Luca, the podcast.

For years, myself and my wife tried everything to help Luca sleep at night. White noise, music, especially Beethoven and Mozart, singing, very pitchy, and back scratches. One evening after years of exhausting bedtime routines, I tried playing the podcast, which is inverted commas, and wouldn't you know, instant sleep for Luca, your dulcet tones have done the trick.

That was three years ago and it's still part of our bedtime routine. We even leave the pod on all night and have woken up at 4 a.m. to hear you both chatting about film. If you haven't got the podcast on within five seconds of Luca getting into bed, he will say, are you putting Mark and Simon on? We also have the questions, Schmestion's butt dance. We live in Bristol and we'll be seeing you at the beacon in December. Luca is very excited to see you both. He is convinced he will be the youngest audience member.

He normally would be petrified as a thought of a big room full of people, but he couldn't be more excited. Tickety-tonken down with loud noises, especially hand dryers. That is fantastic. Luca, we are looking forward to seeing you and how brilliant that our ability to send you to sleep has endured.

That is absolutely terrific. But he'll be sitting there. We'll walk on and he'll go, and he'll be gone. Yeah, Luca, try not to fall asleep in the theatre, okay, because it makes us look bad. Tell us about something that is out and groovy. Okay, Coyote v. Acme.

And the reason this is groovy that it's out is that this is a film that we nearly didn't get to see. If only there was another film this week that we actually didn't get to see. Anyway, so this is an animated live-action hybrid directed by Dave Green, whose previous feature credits include Earth to Echo and that 2016 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

out of the shadows. So this is the official writing credits in this are Sammy Birch from a story by Birch, Jeremy Slater and James Gunn, he James Gunn, apparently based on a 1990 New Yorker magazine piece, Coyote versus Acma by Acme, Coyote versus Acme, pardon me, by Ian Frazier, which followed Wiley Coyote attempting to enlist an attorney to sue the Acme Corporation for repeatedly selling him faulty products. Now, apparently, there was a similar Joey Green series from 1982 in National Lampoon that was called Cliffanger Justice, but this isn't connected to this. So the film starts with a sort of deadpan declaration of what you're going to see is real as it really happened.

Wiley Coyote is trying to catch the Roadrunner. You know, although that's how, I don't have to explain Wiley Coyote. Everybody knows Wiley Coyote and Roadrunner, okay? Yeah, you need to choose. Right, stop. So he's trying to catch Roadrunner. Something he does using various Acme products. and it's always Acme, like it's Acme Jet Boots and Acme Anvils and all the rest of it.

And inevitably, they blow up in his face or fall on his head or smash him with an anvil. It always ends up badly for him. So he enlists an attorney played by Will Forte, who is this very, very lazy lawyer, who's done some lawyering in the past doing some work representing cartoon characters. Here is a clip from the trailer for Coyote v. Acme. Have you ever set a big stack of TNT on the road? Hoping to blow up your nemesis, but the detonator itself explodes? Have you ever poved the ripcord of your parachute and only a bunch of silverware comes out?

It's not your fault. Acme is evil. The guy who is taking on the biggest corporation in the world. They're suing us for every Acme product. Acme denies all charges. That is for you. I'm going to do is walk out this door right now. Please don't.

This is not funny. I thought cartoons are supposed to be funny. Which they are. And I have to say quite often, this is too. So that's the plot. Cartoon character Sue's Acme wants to put Roadrunner in the witness box as a witness to all the suffering that he's had,

but his reasons for wanting him in the box aren't just to ask him questions. Meanwhile, the Acme team, led by John Sina and Froghorn Leghorn, you know, the great big bird, talks like that, are willing to go all. the way to DC because they have got more to protect than just their reputation. Now, the filmmakers cited Who Frames, Who Framed Roger Rabbit as a kind of visual

inspiration, which is a very, very high bar. And this doesn't clear that because, I mean, that is, I mean, I think we all remember seeing Who Framed Roger Rabbit for the first time and it was like it was astonishing. However, this is infinitely more fun than, for example, the Space Jam movies. Because the Space Jam sequel, I don't really remember this, but I've mentioned quite a few times that the devil's director's cut is about to come out. The Space Jam sequel is now memorable primarily for the fact that it's got a gag about the devils in it, which Siniaf were going, warners are suppressing this movie, yet they're

making a gag about it in Space Jam. Anyway, so the director of Cozy v. Acme said he wanted to honor the spirit of Looney Tunes, and I think in large part he has done that. The kinetic slapstick that was central to all the sort of Looney Tunes adventures is really well captured. There are plenty of laugh. There are plenty of kind of really sort of laugh out loud slapstick moments. And I, as you know, I love slapstick.

It's why I love Buster Keaton. It's why I love the evil dead. It's why I love the minions. It's very, very hard to get right and it's very easy to get wrong. If you don't believe me, look at Run for your wife in which the joke about, you know, Neil Morrissey, is it Neil Morrissey, whichever Morrissey is sits on a cake and, you know, Danny Dye stands on a rake. That's badly done slapstick and it's really, really not funny.

But good slapstick is brilliant. The thing about this is, on top of the slapstick, it's got a genuine sense of pathos, and it's got a story that crucially can sustain itself over a movie length rather than just a cartoon short. So on the pathos side, there is this really surprisingly moving thing about Wiley Coyote, who is a silent movie star in this, you know, he just speaks only with a limited number of signs, being consistently blown up and smashed down and hit on the head with anvils, and yet still coming back for more. And somehow he and Roadrunner complete each other.

You know, they both, their purpose is that one chases the other and that's it. And there is a moving scene in the film that literally is a non-conversation between a silent character who communicates only through signs and a bird who says only beep and beep beep. It also, I think, there's a pretty good job of turning the Acme Corporation into this kind of thing about corporate greed about, you know, late stage capitalism. And also there is a satire about the rank corruption of the. the American judicial system and how lousy Congress are. So I think it's funny. I think it's genuinely got something to say, which it very nearly didn't get to say,

because back in 2023, when the film was first finished, Warner's announced that they would rather write it off as a tax loss than release it, that they'd get something like 30 million back as a tax write off. And you remember that there was other movies that got cancelled, the Back Girl film. It was finished, but never got seen.

Scoop, Holiday Haunt was another one. So after they'd sunk it, there was this huge backlash from Hollywood. A bunch of people who'd seen the movie, including people like Lord and Miller, said, it's really good. What are they doing? So then they agreed that they would allow it to be sold. But the amount that they wanted for it to be sold was 70, 75 million, which was more than anyone was going to pay for it. Then there was this online campaign about free Coyote v. Acme,

and release Coyote versus Acme. And then finally, Catchup Entertainment, who are the people who put out the day the earth blew up. They picked the day the earth blew up, which I reviewed last year, which I kind of really enjoyed. And they got it out. And now there it is. And then I sat there in a packed screening room,

and everybody laughed pretty much all the way through. And there is something, I mean, I have to say, we were kind of all sort of on board because of the underdog story of the fact that the film, they tried not to release it. But it's smart and it's funny. And the slapstick gags, I mean, it's not, you know, it's not world changing. It's not perfect.

It's not who framed Roger Rabbit, but nor is it Space Jam, and it has more than enough good gags and good pathos and good dang moments to justify its existence. And it really is quite baffling that this film had to fight to be released, but other films that are out this week didn't. I don't, to no one's surprise, don't quite understand the economics, whereby you can make a film and then not show it as a tax, you know, get yourself out of tax. It's a loss because what you say,

the theory is you spend 70 million making a movie. If you're going to release it, you'll spend another 70 million. That'll cost you 140. You don't think you'll make that back. So you just take, I mean, it's all, what's that phrase, voodoo economics. Okay.

So coming up, the box office top 10, mutiny, which is in take two. Don't forget that. Teenage sex, that's one film. Death at Camp, Asthma. That's another film and also Sons. It's not a movie called Sons. It's and Sons. And also Johnny Flynn talking about that movie.

I think that was all very clear. Well done. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family

to walk 21, kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. Ever wonder how people actually get rich? Like, actually? I'm Molly Sims, and on my show, Lipsick on the Rim, I sat down with Haley Sachs, aka Mrs. Dow Jones, to talk money, mindset, and why getting rich actually starts with how you think

about yourself. We get into the money habits nobody wants to talk about. mindset shifts that actually stick and how to stop feeling weird about wanting more. Listen to lipstick on the rim on Spotify and Apple Music or wherever you get your podcast or watch on YouTube. Box office top 10. Vishwanath and Sons is at number 10. Now, so this is the first and Sons movie of this week. Oh, that's true.

Although this one has actually got a title before it. I haven't seen it because it wasn't pressed screened. It's a Tamil language romantic comedy family drama. if anyone's seen it, let us know. But this is the first of two and Sons movies this week. And Moana is at number nine? I didn't dislike it as much as everybody else apparently did,

but then I just like Moana. Tony is at number eight? This is the Anthony Bourdain drama, which I went to see with Sanjeev. Sanjeev and I went on a date, Simon, because you were absent. So we went to see it. We went to see it in a cinema in Belize,

Park and I didn't know anything about Anthony Bourdain before the, I mean, nothing at all. And so, Sanji, you've had to give me a quick primer before the film started. I thought it was okay. I thought it's very good performances and it was kind of quite tactile filmmaking. I don't know that it's any more than okay. And it sort of doesn't surprise me that it's gone in at number eight because it's, I know it's not a huge release, but it was always, I think, a bit niche. And it does end, as both Sandi and I laughed out loud when it does.

very, very end of it because he's called Tony and then he's called Flacco and then at the end of it, somebody says, who are you? And he says, I'm Anthony Bourdain. And it is like someone going, I'm Batman. It's number 17 in America. Amman on this email, having seen an early screening of Tony, I came away very impressed. The film focuses on the summer that changed Anthony Bourdain's life showing a lost young man discovering both his talent for cooking and a sense of belonging. What I enjoyed most was watching Tony gradually find his identity through the kitchen and the eccentric community around him. The film wisely avoids turning his journey into a tidy success story. Tony is flawed, difficult and burdened by personal baggage, but you can see the beginnings of the person he will become.

Knowing where his life ultimately leads, adds poignancy without the film dwelling on it. It's funny, warm and moving without becoming sentimental. A dominant successor is excellent capturing both Tony's arrogance and vulnerability. Ultimately, Tony feels less like. a conventional biopic, more like a thoughtful coming of age story about finding your calling. I think you'll like the performances. Dominic Sessa, Simon, is the main kid in the holdovers, which you absolutely loved, didn't you? Yes, yes, yes, yes. As I did, most people, I think. Minions and monsters, aha, is it number seven and number 10 in America?

Fantasticly still holding its own in the top ten. And again, on the subject of slapstick. I mean, now, you know, QaD versus Acme, good slapstick, but the slapstick in the minions is, second to none. A Toy Story 5 is at number six here and over there. Ninth week in the top 10, so doing good in the box office, but I didn't like it. Poor Patrol, the Dino movie is at number four.

So two dinosaur movies in the charts this week. The big one is the end of Oak Street. This is the one that isn't the end of Oak Street. This is the one that's aimed at the younger viewer. And it's nowhere in America. Number four, here, number seven in the States, cat's eye, wild hearts. Okay, so I knew nothing.

about this at all, it is apparently a love letter to the icons, E-Y-E-Cons, who helped build the movement behind Katzai, who are a band, and this features icons fan videos and intimate interviews offering a close-up look at the members of the global girl group Katzai. Are you familiar with the earth of Katzai? I'm sad to say that I am not. up to speed with one modern contemporary singer while I've been away, but I haven't got up. Who's that? Who's that? Who's great? But Katzai, I need to check them out then, do I?

Well, I've got no idea because I had not heard of them until they turned up in the chart. So it says from the intense pressure of Dream Academy to chart-topping viral success, audiences experience the high setback sacrifices and breakthrough moments that transformed Katzai on their path to global pop stardom. Do you know Phoebe Bridges? I've heard the name. Good? Yeah, absolutely very good. It was Child 2 who told me about them. And then I saw Jason Isbell, who I absolutely love writing about them.

And I thought, okay, time to check out the new record. And it's very, very good. Oh, fantastic. Well, that's a top tip. Phoebe Bridges check her out. Reviews next week. Number three here, number three over there is the end of Oak Street. New entry.

Do we have any emails? If so, read them before I go, because I reviewed it last week. Okay. Dear Brontosaurus and Velociraptor. Dr. Katie says, LTL in MTE and Vanguardista, I'm sure many eminently qualified paleontologists will contact you,

and I just listened to a plethora of science podcast, but I just wanted to correct San Jeeves' expectations about dinosaurs being scaly. Here we go. The prevailing view is that many dinosaurs, particularly theropods, were covered in feathers or feather-like structures, often for insulation,

rather than flight. Belociraptors may even have sported feathered crests. Hmm, check you out. Some spectacular fossils from China preserve detailed impressions of feathers, helping to confirm that birds are the living descendants of dinosaurs. Keep up the good work. Keep a smiling. Blah, blah, blah, well. Dr. Katie. Hello, Dr. Katie. Simon from the Wirral, a major disappointment, kicking off with half an hour of heavy-handed exposition,

setting up mostly irrelevant or played out plot points. I found the choice of first on-screen casualty, deeply ironic given their career as a story and script editor, as the film felt like it could have done with more of this. Characters would peer out of the windows, frightened to be found, and then moments later be engaging in loud, outdoor conversations with no urgency to take cover or hide or even be playing music from a car stereo. There were glimmers of a film I would have preferred, namely the veneer of neighbourhood civility imploding under the new three. threat whilst encompassing the family plot.

Unfortunately, there are also too many sharks jumped. You and McGregor's character taking on a thing with only a thing and successfully thing, undermined what could have been a good scene. Anyway, at the end of Oak Street. Well, I don't know whether you listen to this show, because obviously when you're off, I don't know whether you listen. So, Sanj was the presenter last week, and Sanj and I went to see End of Oak Street together. And I quite enjoyed it.

It's basically, there's a suburban town, a suburban, small town, is suddenly transported into an area full of dinosaurs. So it's dinosaurs in suburban streets. And as we came out of the screening, which I quite enjoyed, Sanjeev said, I only have one question.

Why does this film exist? And so he was quite down on it. But one of his main criticisms of it was a film set in 1982 featured teenagers who had bow and arrows, bows and arrows. And he said, who had a bow and arrow in 1982? And I said, Sanj,

this is a film in which a suburban town is transported into a prehistoric time in which dinosaurs are running through the streets and your problem is that one of the kids had a bow and arrow and of course if you go to the YouTube page the next day after the thing went up in 1982 I had a bow and arrow I had a bow and arrow too I had three bow and arrows

I was never without my bow and arrow and anyway Sand I know Sand will be listening it was just the funniest thing so I then message Sanj and went just on the subject of the bow and arrows. Apparently, I mean, you can worry about the whole town being transported into a pre-easter for no good reason at all. They never come up with a good explanation of it.

But the bow and arrow is apparently fine, and also dinosaurs had feathers. Maybe Sand should have a bow and arrow in that rucksack if he's on the telly. That's what I think he should definitely do. Think of the crises you could get out of, Sange, if you go, hang on a second, criminal approaching me quickly. in my rock sack, bow and arrow, Kuching. Oh, I've got the one with a sucker

on the end of the arrow. That's not the one that I wanted. And if anybody can find a little toy feathered dinosaur maquette, maybe he can put that in the bag as well. That would be good. And the reason, I don't listen to any of the subs shows out of deep-seated insecurity

because I'm afraid that they'll be better. Nobody's better than you, Simon. Nobody's better than you. I don't believe that. It's Sanji Bascar, come on. The Odyssey is at number two here and it's at number two there. This week on Go Woke Go Broke Corner, the odyssey is now the biggest film of all time at BFI, IMAX, ahead of Avatar, Oppenheimer and Star Wars The Force Awakens. There's a bit more Odyssey correspondence in Take 2. Yeah, in the other flight car park. And the number one movie here and there is Spider-Man brand new day. Here's Olly Tetlow. Hello, Olly, who came backstage at the Christmas show to say

Hello. Hi, Ong. Like Mark, I thought the film's strongest element was the relationship between Peter, MJ, Ned and Frank. Tom Holland's performance felt notably more mature, particularly in the quieter emotional moments which gave the film real weight post No Way Home. If I were trimming runtime, I'd lose some of the Mark Ruffalo material, the themes around DNA and scientific responsibility felt underdeveloped, and the CGI heavy action occasionally

pulled me out of the film, especially compared with the more grounded fight sequences. By contrast. The first person's swinging sequences were exhilarating, giving a genuine sense of Spider-Man's movement through New York. The action felt more physical and immersive than in previous MCU outings. Overall, I'd call it the best Marvel film since Endgame and a very promising sign for Doomsday. TTFN, Oli, TETLO. Now, Oli, thank you very much indeed for that. TTFN, Tata for now.

Yeah. Wasn't that Jimmy Young who did that? Was it? Back in the day? Yes, may well have been. Jimmy Young, old radio two host. Yeah. Like before Jeremy Vine did that lunchtime show.

Yeah. But TTFM, maybe it was a wartime thing. Maybe it's even, I don't know. Anyway, Ollie, thank you very much indeed. Spider-Man brand new days at number one. Well, it's interesting that Ollie brings up the swingy thing because in the very, very first Sam Ramey Spider-Man, the big problem for me was the swingy-swingy was heftless.

It was without weight. And I thought Sam Ramey, me over the course. I think in Spider-Man 2, he got it much better. But it is, it has always been an issue. And I know this sounds like a, the kid's got a bow and arrow and dinosaurs haven't got feathers. But in the middle of everything, being obsessed with whether or not the swinging, swinging stuff is actually looks like it has physical gravitas to. I understand exactly what Olli means. And I kind of agree that in the case of this, it was much more like, okay, I'm willing to invest in that swingy, swingy thing.

Because the other problem is that because of swingy, jumpy, sticky thing, Spider-Man effectively flies nowadays. I mean, you know, before, in the original comic strips, he would swing from one thing to another thing. But the leapy, leapy, leapy is so leapy, leepy, that it is like flyy-fly rather than swingy leap. And it's hard to get a handle. that sometimes. What a great word

heft is because... I love heft. But it has more to it than weight, doesn't it? Weight just as one thing, whereas heft has that sense of substance and I'm holding hands like I'm holding two melons for... I don't know. Or just to anything, but

you're trying to describe heft, so it has weight and presence and you feel it somehow. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Correspondence at covenomere.com.

We're going to talk to Johnny Flynn in just a moment. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world for. free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.

I'm Dan Jones. I'm Dan Snow. And this is Dan... Squared. In a special series for This Is History, I, Dan Jones, interview people who use the past to make sense of our present.

And this week, history hits Dan Snow, takes me places. There are two kinds of stories in the world. There are those who go away on holiday and line a sun lounger, and then there are those who immediately scale the cliff. behind the hotel to go and look at the castle.

Find this episode on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, our guest this week is Johnny Flynn from scene stealing performances in Emma, full stop, Clouds of Seals Maria, Beast, and as Dickie Greenleaf in Netflix is Ripley, he's been David Bowie in Star Dust, he's been Mr Knightley, opposite, Anya Taylor Joy. He now stars in And Sons,

Ampasand Sons, about a reclusive literary icon who brings his estranged sons together, well, he tries to, anyway, as you're about to hear after this clip. I'm dying. I want you to come to me. I haven't been here for 20 years. I didn't think I'd ever come back.

Do we hug? I know you're familiar with the story of Andy's conception. Oh, you mean the one about you having an affair and destroying mum's life and taking the baby in afterwards? All of which is true. except the story itself. We're supposed to just forget everything the other did to us. We stole my journals for a novel that later became a smash hit.

It's authenticity. That was what I was famous for. And that is a clip from And Sons. One of its stars is the great Johnny Flynn who joins us. Hello, Johnny. How are you? I am good. Thanks for having me. And just back from South Africa, is that right? Yeah, I've been playing Paul Simon in a film about apartheid and South Africa and music. Yeah, and it's really not about Paul Simon, but it covers the Graceland recording in that era,

which is why I've got dark hair still. It's a complicated story. It is. It really is, but it means a lot to me that album. And I was born in South Africa and we left in 1985 when Paul Simon was arriving in my parents around the apartheid campaigners. But yeah, it's complicated. Yeah. Well, I look forward to that. What's that going to be called, Johnny?

It's called the Road Home. You have so many projects on the go. But the newest one to reach us is, as I mentioned, and Sons. The Sons in question, Noah Dup, George Mekai and yourself. The father is Bill Nahi. Introduces to Anne Sons and your particular character, Richard Dyer. Yeah, I mean, I got this script and just found it so intriguing and unusual. And unlike anything I'd read in terms of.

terms of the balance of humor and pathos and absurdity. And then I heard who was involved. And Pablo Chapero is a wonderful, amazing, interesting director who's made some incredible, sort of mysterious films, really. And I thought, well, this is going to be a really interesting combination. And Serapoli's script is brilliant. And Bill Nye is an old friend. He's played both my father and my father-in-law now.

and his granddaughter was at school it was in my daughter's class at her primary school so Bill and I would find ourselves waiting at the school gate occasionally and his daughter's an old friend so it's funny because I feel like

I'm part of his family anyway so to play his son in this very unusual kind of family dynamic and then you know Melda Staunton is one of my all-time heroes and she's just one of the best people And George McKay and I said the, yeah, the brothers, George Mackay and No Juke and myself. And George and I were together a lot.

And I've known George a long time as well. We were supposed to play brothers a long time ago. And we finally got to work together and we, you know, fell in love with each other, of course. And yeah, we did this, our first scene with Imelda and she got very emotional. And we've been kind of doing these quite funny, absurd scenes until then. And just like hit us. And I think it's one of the most powerful scenes in the film, but she had me sort of shaking with the power of it.

So yeah, amazing actors and a brilliant story. In terms of what the story is, your dad, Bill Nye, who's this globally successful author and a monster, it would appear, is drawing his, you and George McGa, bringing his sons back because Noah Dube lives with him anyway. So that's basically the set of. up in a big house all the family back together, essentially, yes? Yeah, it's a sort of, it's a very unusual kind of reunion.

He's got something big to tell us, which I can't reveal, otherwise it would spoil the whole film, but we, you know, it wouldn't spoil it to say that the family was split up, you know, however many years ago. And what is it that broke the family? There's an accusation of an affair. I mean, I suppose when you meet Bill's character, he's, yeah, he's like all the most famous novelists in the world rolled into one.

He's unbelievably, he's Salman, Rushdie and Martin Amos and all those people, all of their fame combined. So his family have to put up with him being everywhere and talked about as this genius. And, you know, as is often the case when you hear about the sons and daughters of very, very famous people. It's totally hard to kind of live up to that.

And the story becomes all about their parents, you know, the famous parent. And I'm a struggling writer, and I'm sick to death of hearing my father's name in L.A. where I live, because I left. I fled the country 18 years ago when my father had an affair. But there's a deeper truth that's revealed,

and it's very improbable. And we, as the, sons and the audience are asked to kind of go on this journey of whether we believe it or not. And does that justify his behaviour and what has happened since then? Yeah, there's lots of kind of moral questions asked in the film, which is fun. And that reveal that you're talking about, which we will talk around, obviously, because it needs to drop as a bombshell, as indeed it does for you and George Mackay. and the audience is going to go, what?

Yeah. But the great thing is that's exactly what you guys are thinking. Yeah. What was fun was Pablo likes to do, in a way, the written scene is like this thing in the middle of what he wants to do as like a long kind of improvisation. He works with improv a lot, and I've never made a film like that. And so we know the information that we need to bring in or reveal or adjust to the pivot

that needs to happen in the scene. But the scenes, we would, we'd film half an hour of stuff before we got to that bit that we knew was written. And that was incredible, because stuff like that where you're reacting to something, by that point, normally a take is like, you know, you don't shoot more than a maximum two pages. You know, most scenes, most scenes are like a quarter of a page,

somebody getting out of a car and walking into a house or something. But we were shooting for, you know, I think the first take they did on Bill, lasted like an hour or something. And there were five cameras sometimes on everybody and everything because he wants a sense of deep reality, Pablo. And I think you needed that

because of the potential implausibility of this plot twist, which actually is not that unreal. You can believe that this thing happened, but it's just, had to land it in a deeper kind of reality of these relationships. So he just roll and roll and roll and millions of cameras bumping into each other and absolute chaos. But it was, yeah, it's brilliant.

And what does your character want? Because even though you, and George McGeigh, how much they hate their father all the time, you kind of need him as well. Neither of you have escaped his orbit. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's my belief that however messed up a relationship, with your father might get. We all want to be loved by our dads. Do you know what I mean? Like, I know a lot of toxic relationships between fathers and sons,

but I sense that deep down, if they walked in through that door and just held you and said, I love you, I'm sorry, I see you, I'm proud of you, you know, releasing their own egos or whatever. And for my character in particular, he just wants to be seen as his own person, as a writer that can do his own thing.

And in the end, he's having to just trade on his dad because that's all that anyone's interested in. So it's a very, it's a sort of toxic situation for my character. There are powerhouse performances everywhere you look in this film. But it's a very male story, Johnny. So it's Anne's Sons. Clearly, this is very deliberate,

but thank heavens for Melda Staunton and Anna Gristova, I think. Yes. I've got that name right. Yes. She's wonderful. She's wonderful, yeah. Like the assistant, like the house, if that's not too condescending, a term personal assistant, whatever.

But why do you think it was Anne's son? Did it have to be so male? And would it have been different if there was a sister? I know this isn't your story. It's a David Gilbert novel from a few years ago. But it is a masculine tale. It is. I feel like the storytelling is consciously keeping out

some of the female characters that could be there to then have, yeah, those really strong sort of totemic women in Melders' character and Anna's character. And it's as if it's a comment on, you know, if there were more women taking part in the negotiations around this stuff, it wouldn't be so battered and bruised, you know, like there'd be a softer quality to the communication, but it's these, it's, it is about male ego,

and it's about this ruthless kind of ambition, really. and that wounded male ego in society that is creating all these toxic situations, whether it's Donald Trump or Elon Musk or whatever, you know, it's all around us. But these are, this is a real family, and they, yeah, so they hopefully elicit sympathy at the same time as being, you know, pretty unlikable at times.

Pete Winslet was on the show a few months back for Goodbye June, her directorial debut, which you star as well as one of, is a gathered, fractured family called to a deathbed. In Anson's Bill Nye thinks he's dying. We don't know whether he is or not. But it's sort of, there are overlapping emotions there. They're very different films, but overlapping emotions, Johnny, I thought. Totally.

I hadn't even put that together. But that's so interesting because in that one, the show is really run by the women in the family. And that was what was very nice about being in that. environment because Andrea Reisbury, Tony Colette, Kate, and of course, Helen Mirren and myself, and then Tim Spall as the father and really the men are the most kind of messed up in that place. They've got the biggest journey to go on there. But everybody has their own processing and stuff in that story.

But that was, yeah, lovely, again, coming together to sort something out as a family. And I love working on that film. It's amazing. And at the start of Anne Sons, Johnny, there are two minutes of producer credits. I just noticed it. And it made me realize that even with a movie like this, with the powerhouse cast,

Bill Nye, George Bikai, Noah, Jube, Melda Staunton and yourself and others, it's difficult to get these films made. Yeah, you're telling me. I'm about to start filming something that had been in a similar position. It's such an amazing story, amazing cast involved and brilliant director.

impossible to get made. And it's, yeah, I don't know, we need to change the model perhaps, but funding has to come from various different countries and then something that's supposed to be set in England and has to be filmed in Spain and Norway. And, you know, I think we need to, we need to kind of look at that

and create the right tax breaks in the UK, certainly to have our own stories told here. We've got an awful lot of studios in the UK. It's brilliant, a lot of American production coming to us but I think in terms of telling our own stories I think releasing funds for that and making it a bit easier would be great because a lot of my friends as producers who this hair is falling out because they're just constantly trying to you know sort out bridging loans and going into huge debt on productions that you know it should be quite easy to get something made for three

million I suppose anyway I should mention before we finish being cottage your new album which you've done with your sister Lily is I've only heard the one track which is the only one that's been released but that sounds amazing is that November for that record? Yeah the album's out in November and then we're playing the Royal Festival Hall on the 21st of November. So I always end up by just saying what do we see you in next? So Anson's

is the new movie but then is it a prayer for the dying? Is it the idiots? Is it Harry Potter? Yeah. You're playing Jason Isaacs very interestingly in that. What do we see you in next? Do you know I'm not quite sure. The Prayer for the dying is a film I just loved making

so much it's just taken a little bit to find the right window to kind of have its release and stuff but it's coming out this this autumn quite soon and that was an incredible experience with john c riley and myself and lots of scandinavian actors it's about a settler community in in wisconsin in 1870 facing terrible disease and forest fires and everything and then elson or with andrew scott which i mean it's going to be at london film festival And I saw that the other day and it absolutely killed me. I mean, I think it's Andrew's best work. So that was special to work with him.

And then Harry Potter, the first series is out soon and we're about to do the second series. And The Idiots, the Idiots is coming to Toronto and then London film festivals. I did that last summer with Amy Lou Wood and that's really exciting. Playing Dostoevsky. It was very, very fun. A lot of Johnny Flynn around. No, no, no, it's extraordinary.

All of them sound. utterly intriguing. Anne Sons is the new movie, and look out for Bean Cottage, which is the new album coming out in November. Johnny, as ever, a pleasure. Thank you very much indeed. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. And, you know, say hi to Mark when you see him.

He's an old pal. I will do that. He's part of the show. He's a contributor, but, you know, we allow him on every now. Johnny, thanks very much indeed. Yeah, lovely to see you. Cheers, Sam. Johnny says hi, by the way, Mark. Yeah, I heard.

Thank you for solidly putting me my advice as a contributor. Is there anybody that we've interviewed where you go, it is just, you know, what's next? That list of, I know. Of movies and TV shows that is in. So being Lucius Malfoy is like the fourth most important thing. It's just.

A list of shows that he's involved with. What an extraordinary actor. And relating to a question that we got a couple of weeks ago about why do we sometimes see the interviews and see the interviewer and the interviewee, in this case they request a camera off which is absolutely fine which is why you couldn't see Johnny

but he did have Paul Simon Hare so it was intrigued to see what that Grace Lamb movie is going to be about that sounds absolutely fascinating but he's always I thought he was on very good form oh it's terrific I mean he was clearly very much enjoying talking to you and I think he's fired up about the film because I think the film's really

kind of interesting so yeah I mean I'm just jealous of you having all that time talking to him because I think he's such an interesting guy and a brilliant musician that's you know So shall I leave? I apologise for the tree surgeon, which you could hear at the beginning. And then at the end, he apologised for his kids who are having a big row at the background. Anyway, there's a lot of extraneous noise, but anyway, the movie, I think, is worth talking about. Okay, yes.

So An Sons, as you said, adapted from a David Gilbert novel, which I haven't read, by screenwriter Sarah Polly and director Pablo Trapero, who also actually gets a co-writing credit. Now, I haven't read the novel, as I said, but I'm a huge fan of Sarah Polly. She started out as a young actor in films like Baron Muncheon. and went on to work with Atta McGoyan and films like Exotica Suite Here After

made a directorial debut with away from her for which she got a screenplay Oscar Nod, went on to make the brilliantly constructive stories we tell, which was a film that looked like a documentary but actually wasn't, and it was, you know, it was about the way in which we tell stories both to each other and in filmmaking. And then, of course, went on to write direct women

talking for which she won a screenplay Oscar. As for Pablo Trapero, probably best known for, Camrancho and the clan and White Elephant, as Johnny Flynn said, a really interesting CV. So, thumbnail plot synopsis, although you've pretty much covered this in that interview. There are certain things that we can't reveal, but there are certain things that are revealed,

both in the interview and the trailer. So George McI, Johnny Flynn, there are Strange Brothers, Jamie and Richard Dyer, at which point I hold up the paperback of Mark Germud's surround sound, superb, but once lucid and complex, Richard Dyer. I should point out not that Richard. To me, that's right. Johnny Flynn, in his fictional character role as Richard Dyer,

who is one of the most respected film academics in the world. It's just, you know, interesting than that name come up. Son of a once celebrated author, played by Bill Knight with Raggedy Gusto, once celebrated now has become a kind of drunken recluse. Many years ago, as we know from what we've just heard, their personal disaster area of a father walked out on their mother, played brilliantly by Imelda Staunton, and incidentally, yes, Imelda Staunton walks on water, after having apparently had an affair and produced a son. Andy, played by Noah Duke,

he of Quiet Place and more recently, Hamnet. The young son now lives with the father, and a character who is sort of described an issue, but housemaid, because they appear to be wearing a hand, but so much more than that, we are told very early on. So the older sons have been called to the house by their dad who insists that he's dying, although that just appears to be a normal state of affairs. There's nothing new. We see him early on disgracing himself at a friend's funeral, which he's asked to speak. He's, I never go out of the house. I never speak in public. I never write anything anymore. But he's called his two sons here to tell them that he wants them to look after his youngest when he is gone, as he is in the process of doing,

because Andy, the young son, is special. Okay? Now, this is particularly hurtful because the father never gave George Mackay's character or Johnny Flynn's character the affection or attention that they wanted, as Johnny Flynn said, it's this kind of narcissistic male thing that's going on.

He compared it to a bunch of stuff which is happening in the real world right now. And it's also the fact that the father destroyed their mother's life by walking off and having this affair and producing this child, which he then thought quite blithy, well, I'll just bring the child home and we'll all raise me.

That'll all be absolutely fine. It's a brilliant language. Did you actually think that was going to happen? So they both grew up in the shadow of their father and their father's genius. And they're now being told that this other kid is the special one, not them. And you know, you will do right by it, won't you?

Now, so the whole and son's title is very loaded. It was interesting. You kind of focused in on the, that it's a very male story. When I heard Anne Sons, the first thing I think is like Dombie and Sons. And so I was thinking like, you know, that's the sort of literary illusion.

But actually, you're right, it is about a particularly male thing. And it's, although we, you know, I said there is a sort of revelation that we're not going to reveal. But Johnny Flynn talked about how it's basically, it's, on the one hand, you know, there's pathos and there's emotion, there's drum,

there's also absurdity. And then there is this revelation, which when it is revealed, causes them to gasp and laugh out loud, as don't be ridiculous. We're not going to take that seriously. And the question always remains throughout the movie is how well you take that revelation.

Is it just that the father is just saying stuff in order to justify his own bad actions? You hear in the trailer, what? So we suddenly have to forget about all these years of stuff because he says that, In fact, the story that was always told about him going off and having a fair and having a... Was only that.

It was only a story. Now, on one level, this is particularly interesting, because of course Sarah Polly was drawn to this. Because Sarah Polly is very, very interested in storytelling. You look at women talking. You look at stories we tell. And watching it, it was like, fine, I can understand exactly why Sarah Polly would be drawn to this story. But the story is about a number of different things. Yes, it's about maleness.

It's about the legacy of parents and children growing up in the shadow of parents. I mean, particularly Johnny Flynn's character, who's desperate to become a screenwriter, but also desperate not to be just his father's son. And yet, that's not an uncomplicated thing. But it's also, I think, about the egotism of parenthood, about, particularly male parenthood, about what Bill Nye's character sees it as, which is basically a desire to replicate yourself. You know, desire to create another one of yourself through your children.

And maybe this one will be the better version of you that you could have been. And it's about the way that parents can feed off their children. I mean, we hear in that trailer, we heard Johnny Finns saying, you stole my diaries. The things that happened to me, you stole and you used them for your fiction, which was then celebrated. I think that one of the most powerful scenes in the film is the scene in which Imelda Staunton's character, the wife who was walked out on, meets for the first time Noah Jup's character, and is suddenly struck by almost this vision of seeing somebody who really reminds them of what their ex-husband was like before he became their ex-husband.

So it's also about that. There's also a kind of time-travelling thing going on, which is that when you look at somebody who is now this wretched, rancid, drunken, flailing around being abusive and obnoxious to everything. everybody, that somewhere in all that, there is this other thing going on. And then there's this other element, this absurdist element, this, what if this other thing was true that takes it into the realm of just lunatic fantasy? Interesting, therefore, that the score for it is by Christobald Tapia de Vier.

Now, if you remember, ages and ages ago, we reviewed the girl with all the gifts, and I loved that film. I think you did too. Yeah, and I really, really love the score. and Christopher Tapio de Vier probably now best known for doing the music for White Lotus and scores are always full of strange noises noises, noises that may be voices, maybe synthesizers,

maybe therapy, you can't quite tell what it is, but somehow they inhabit this world between the acoustic world and the electronic world between the canny and the uncanny, the reel and the sort of, and that mixture of the natural and the unnatural, I think really, really works. And I think it particularly works for this story,

which is a story which on one level is a story about a dysfunctional family with a patriarchal figure who is just self-justifying. But there's also this suggestion that it may be something completely other than that. It may be something that makes you go, what? And I think one of its greatest triumphs is that it gets, it manages to pull that off without you just going, I'm sorry. I'm not having this because as you said yourself, the reaction that everyone has, is what? Yes. And then I really enjoyed it.

I didn't know anything about it before I went in other than that it's good. As you said, powerhouse cast, but I thought it was really enjoyed, but I was really engrossed by it and very mooper. I thought the scene of Imelda Staunton meeting the Noah Jube character was absolutely devastating. What did you think? Yeah, I thought I enjoyed it.

Some of the reviews have been very sniffy, but I don't take any notice of those. I need to take notice of yours. And I kind of agree with you. I think that the reverse. reveal the pivot, whatever you want to call it, is so... Oh, the tree surgeon's back. It's just so...

Pulling the rug out from underneath your feet is being used many times before. But it's so extraordinary that I started looking up a lot of words and trying to find out what on earth he was talking about because it's... You spend the rest of the movie going... Really? What? Is that? Is he... Come on. But as do the other characters, that's the point. And then there's that shot. You go, oh, okay. Well, you know, maybe.

Anyway, so as a kind of a pivot, it's capital P, I think. But I think that the genius of it is that their reaction is, yeah, he's just saying that, because therefore it means that we have to forget the last 20, whatever is... Tell stories, that's what he does. stories. It's about telling stories. And he is a storyteller who has stolen stories, who was told stories, who hasn't written a word in years. And again, I bring this back to Sarah Polly, who I just, I think Sarah Polly is just fantastic. Of course, Sarah Polly, storyteller, to end all storytellers, would be in it. Incidentally, if you watch the, is it, is it the industry? No, the studio, the studio,

the series with Seth Rogen, which is great. The episode with Sarah Polly, doing the oner is absolutely amazing. I wonder, so Bill Nye's character, it was like an emaciated Father Christmas. Yeah, I would like him to meet Ian McKellen in the Christopher's. Oh, yeah. That kind of, my life used to be so much better than it is, and I'm just raging.

And I hate you all. Everybody. One of those kind of things. That would be a good matchup. Fantastic. I think, I think George McKeever. Guy is always great. It would be nice. Oh, he's brilliant.

Could it done with a bit more to do? I don't know because I think it is genuinely an ensemble cast. And incidentally, I think that what he does, he's great. Because again, he's telling his story because he is filming all of this. He is an artist who has turned to video art to filming as a way of exploring his art. So they're all telling stories. And I bought him completely. So the movie is and.

sons. I'm not quite sure about it. I know that's the title of the book. It just feels a little cumbersome. Anyway, it works. Of course it does. And as a as a powerhouse cast, it'll be hard to beat, I think, come the end of the year. Do you think people will, do you think awards might come this way? I have no idea. I mean, we're already on the don't forget the Christopher's. And I think this is very much in the, I mean, I didn't, I haven't read any other reviews, but you said you've read some reviews which have been sniffy. So maybe it hasn't been well received. I don't know. I haven't read any reviews. Quite right, too. Nor should you.

Okay, correspondence at cobbinamere.com, let us know what you think. The good news is, Mark, did Sanjeeve do the laughter lift, by the way? He did. That's very unfair because he's just naturally funny, as opposed to this week's edition of The Laughter Live. Here we go. Did he start with Haymarket? Was his material written by the redactor?

It was, yeah. He didn't write himself. Okay. Mark, I witnessed an awful kerfuffle in Sherby's North. London. Did you? A little boy ran out to me shouting. Please help me, Simon Mayer. My dad is in a fight. And I ran over with a little fella and saw two men ferociously fister cuffing. Which one's your dad? I said. I don't know. That's what they're fighting about. I got really annoyed with the good lady Saramis is tearing doors this week. Mark, she had, she had the temerity to suggest that Ray Manzorak was a terrible musician. I'm sorry, I said, but we do not slam the doors in this house.

Hey. Did you manage to catch the eclipse? I did. I did. I watched it in Cornwall. It was fantastic. I watched it through the glasses. It was brilliant.

Worst astronomical event ever. One star. Oh, I see. One star. Sorry. I didn't even care that was the punchline. Sorry. Sorry.

I watched it with it. I did the colander thing, which was... The colander thing's amazing. It was amazing. It works really well. In the outdoor area, in which we had gathered, there was someone who put Cullander on their head.

I didn't go over and say, I'm sorry, if you look at the sun through Cullander, you're still going to go blind. But anyway. On the subject of Condon, can I add one joke to the laughter lift this week? It's very, very quick. Okay, here we go.

Three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar. Now tell me that's just a coincidence. That's very good. You should have inserted that for next week. So we save the event. Anyway, coming up, Mark's review of... Two movies.

Two movies, teenage sex, and also death at camp myasma miasma on the way. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. Whether life serves you an ace or an unexpected backhand,

the high-protein yogurt, Oikos Pro, is there to feed your strength and help you turn every challenge into a smash. Oikos Pro helps build strong muscles and support muscle recovery with high protein and contains no added sugar, because true strength isn't about being able to take the hits. about being able to bounce back. OICOS Pro. Feed your strength. Visit OICOS.CA for more details. Okay, so you can use our email just to tell us stuff. You can also use it to send us voice notes,

like if you're trying to guess what Mark thought about that film at the beginning of the show, but also you can use it to send us what's on with cinematic and cinematic adjacent business. For example, Tashi, an independent film curator. Hi everyone, this is Tashi Peta and I'd love to invite you all to a very special screening next week at the BFI. On Sunday the 23rd of August at 2.30 in the afternoon, we'll be showing Lottie Reiningers the Adventures of Prince Ahmed from 1926. And as a centina retreat, we will have a brand new live improvisation by Hugo Max, an incredible viola player who will be interpreting the film and drawing out some of the darker themes of this amazing work of art.

It's widely considered the earliest surviving animation in film history, and it's a really beautiful masterpiece, and what an opportunity to see it on the big screen. So please do join us, and we look forward to seeing you there. That's terrific. Can I just say that was one of the films that I chose in my observer list of 25 films that are suitable for audiences of all ages, and it is a very astonishing piece of work.

And it was well recorded, I think. So thanks, Tashi. for that. Do send in video if you can because if you have a shining face, we'd like to see your shining in smiley face take full advantage of all the technology available to you. So here we've got a double bill then, which Mark's going to review.

Teenage Sex or CX, as it says here, and also the follow-up, death at Camp Myasmus. Okay, so this film, which it is one film, as everyone knows, described on the wiki page is an American slasher film, but better described, I think, as a wildly entertaining screen essay on the radically subversive power of horror movies. I think it's kind of closer in tone to that doc series

queer for fear than it is to the sort of endless 70s, 80s slasher reboots and parodies that filled our screens. It's written and directed by Jane Chambrun, who's the trans non-binary director behind. I saw the TV glow, which you remember that we talked about. We had an awful lot of correspondence about it, actually. It was kind of a really interesting piece of work. This, I think, is a major step up.

This was the winner of the queer, of the Can Queer Palm when it played in the Uncertain Regard section earlier this year. We'll make the joke as always. The Uncertain Regard section is the section which the festival regards uncertainly. So, stars stand-up comedian and actor Hannah Einbinder, who's Ava Daniels in Hacks, as Chris, who's a somewhat awkward queer filmmaker who made a splash at Sundance with a film, part of which was a remake of Psycho,

seen from the point of view of the shower curtain. And of course, Psycho is a, is a, precisely, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a very strong comedic satirical element in all of this, okay? So it is a, it's a, it's a comedy satire, but it's also an essay about these things. So, um, Psycho is a key text in the very sort of problematic relationship that horror has had with transgender issues and you go from that to like, you know, dress to kill and silence of the lambs, all of which feature in inverted commas trans monsters. So Chris has now been enlisted to reboot the camp,

either miasma or miasma, it's said both ways in the film franchise, which is a Friday the 13th style series about murders at a summer camp whose villain is called Little Death, okay, which is very important. Little death, like Jason Voorhe's, a kid, dies,

ostracized for switching genders, having been raised as both a boy and a girl by their parents, and now has come. back to stalk the camp wearing this kind of vent, air vent, square air vent on the head. Now, Chris knows that she's been hired to sort out the transphobic optics of the series. You just get a queer indie filmmaker in to give the series a kind of right on veneer because the old IPs are salable, but they're problematic. However, Chris has their own relationship with camp miasma, having seen the first one as a young

kid, finding it a traumatic and transformative experience, and then becoming obsessed with the series and indeed with the final girl star of the first movie, Billy Presley, played by none other than Gillian Anderson. Billy has now become a recluse. Everyone says, oh yeah, you know, like Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard. In fact, even dresses like Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard. Total recluse. Weird is still, Billy Presley now lives in the deserted summer. camp that was the set of the first film and chris our filmmaker has become absolutely obsessed by the idea of getting inside something that she saw in billy presley's eye during that first film here is a clip from teenage sex and death at camp mayasmusma i feel like there's about to be a jump scare

i'm billy presley you must be the writer director yeah hi You came out of nowhere. I didn't know you were in here. I'm sorry. I saw you and I wanted to scare you. It's only fair right. You've already seen me. I love Gillian Anderson.

That's a great, that's a great, you know, reclusive star performance. Anyway, the movie gets pitched. Billy Presley says, I think your problem is that your approach is too academic. Because the thing is that little death, is real and there is a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from. Now, as a youngster, Sean Brum was a fan of like Nightmare on Elm Street, you know, Buffy and the X-Files and wrote fan fiction, was really kind of really invested

in all that stuff. And they once likened teenage sex and death at Catmiasma to being like portrait of a lady set in a Friday the 13th sequel, which I think is a brilliant. brilliant description because portrait of a lady on fire, pardon me, portrait of a lady on a lady. Portrait of a lady on fire. It's a story about looking. It's a story about somebody painting a picture without the subject,

knowing that that's what they're doing. So it's about looking and to be looked at nurse. And it's a story about the female gaze. It's a queer story about the female gaze and about how object and subject are the same thing. teenage sex and death at cat measm also reminded me a lot of Prano Bailey Bond's sensor which you remember I absolutely raved about when it came out

in which a young woman who is working at the BBC classifying video nasties is drawn into the world of the video nasty in which they find this whole kind of weirdly nurturing environment in the middle of these kind of apparently really rancid nasty horror movies And I think both that film and this film have got a kind of a shared fetishy sensibility about the physicality of VHS and the physicality of a film. You remember I once said there was something a bit sort of kinky about lacing up a projector,

that there was something about the sprockets and the things. You remember I said that? Yeah, I think you're the only person that gets excited by a sprocket. No, I'm not because there is a scene in this film in which literally a reel of film and its sprockets is fondled in a way that I understood entirely. Yes, exactly. And also, it's no surprise to know that as far as the VHS stuff is concerned, there is at least one scene which directly references David Cronenberg's videodrome,

which again is the fleshyness of VHS. It will come as no surprise to you, Simon, to know that I loved this. I loved this film, not just because it celebrates the kind of the often, well, sometimes inadvertently transgressive power of horror, but because it does so in a way which is both, high brow but also brilliantly low brow. I mean, I remember when we were making the documentary Scream and Scream again

for Channel 4 years and years ago, we went to Camp Nobosco, which is the place where they filmed Friday the 13th, you know, the camp blood of Friday the 13th. And there is something about, and for all the problems with the Friday of 13th movies, you know, they're absolutely the sex and death thing, you know, you have sex, you get killed, you smoke dope, you get killed, blah, blah, blah. They're those morality tells, but there is something

that was genuinely thrilling and subversive about them. And, of course, little death, right? The monster here is called Little Death. What does Little Death mean, Simon? LePittie Moore. Precisely. Yes. It's orgasmic.

It is. And there is a reason why so much of the bloodletting in this, and actually in the kind of the almost parodic horror movies, is, you know, huge spurting fountains of fluid. And actually, very, very early on, the Gillian Anderson character tells, the filmmaker. You know, you're complicating it.

These films are, they're about flesh and fluids. And I thought that if this was something that the film kind of engaged with in a way that was really, for me, really thrilling because it was like, you wanted to go, yeah, yes, yes. It's also, it's really entertaining. It's got some great needle drops. It's got a genuinely authentic retro feel

that put me in mind. There was a movie called Antrim, the deadliest film ever made, which I reviewed a few years ago, maybe even during lockdown. which I thought had that kind of that real, you know, tactile feel to it. Both the Lee performances are great. I think Gillian Anderson is just having great fun.

Hannah Imbandah is brilliant in the role. And I literally sat there thinking, okay, I'm enjoying this so much. It's so full of ideas. It's, yeah, I just thought it was terrific. I can guarantee you that you would not enjoy it as much as I did. And I do understand that part of what's going on is that this is literally playing to a home crowd of me. But I also think that there's much more, when it finished, a colleague of mine turned to me and said, what did you think? And I went, I loved it.

And they went, yeah, thought so. Were your senses working over time? They were. My senses were working over. I had one, two, three, four, five senses working over time. Demonic, it sounds like you are going straight to hell. That's it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production of this week's team.

Jen, Eric, Josh, Heather, the producer was Don. The redactor was Simon Poole. In Take 2, we're directing you to the Overflow Carpart. More chat about current releases. And if you've enjoyed what you've heard so far, there is plenty more. And even if you haven't enjoyed it and you think it's dreadful, there's still plenty more waiting for you over on Take 2, such as five-question film club, questions.

Three questions, Your Majesty. Sorry, but. Thank you. Who would be the worst dinner party guest in terms of table banners from the history of cinema? Interesting question. Don't forget people of Bristol and beyond. We'll be at the Bristle Beacon on December the six tickets are on sale via the link in the show notes. You can get both takes ad free.

Just search comment of May of Patreon and join the church. Mark, what is your film of the week as if there is going to, you know, which is a shame for Hans. Because I think you've been. No, so here's, I'm going to square that circle. This show is co-presented by you and me. my film of the week is teenage sex and death at Camp Myasma and your film of the week is the only film of these that I've seen,

which is Anne Sons. But I think even if I had seen teenage sex and death, I probably have enjoyed Anne Sons more. And I think that's right. I absolutely think that's the case. Okay. Well, that seems remarkably balanced.

It doesn't it? You wait until we get to three questions film club in which I'm going to overturn the popular vote. Again, again, there'll be another siege. And Sean Penn will make a movie about you. Starring Bradley Cooper as you. Anyway, another take has appeared alongside this one. Thank you.

We'll talk to you soon. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, joined thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Falunel Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.cwock.ca.