Kermode & Mayo’s Take - THE SALT PATH: Simon and Mark’s reaction. Plus SUPERMAN

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

Vanguardistas have more fun—so if you don’t already subscribe to the podcast, join the Vanguard today via Apple Podcasts or extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. In return you’ll get a w...hole extra Take 2 alongside Take 1 every week, with bonus reviews, more viewing recommendations from the Good Doctors and whole bonus episodes just for you. And if you’re already a Vanguardista, we salute you.  The wonderful Mark Gatiss is our guest this week. He joins Simon and Mark to talk ‘Bookish’—his new crime comedy passion project that sees him play a bookseller-turned-detective in postwar London. Plenty of whimsy, history, detective-fiction geekery and big love for weird archaic vocabulary in this chat, so don’t miss it—he's always a delight.   Our Mark reviews the series, as well as the week’s big cinema releases. First up, ‘Modì, Three Days on the Wing of Madness’--a whirlwind imagining of three days in the life of bohemian artist Modigliani, directed by Johnny Depp and (briefly) featuring Al Pacino. And, of course, we’ll get the lowdown on the super-size blockbuster of this week: is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it’s ‘Superman’!   We’ll also address this week’s ‘Salt Path’ news, with Mark and Simon reacting to the controversy surrounding the author of the original memoir, Raynor Winn. Since recording, Winn has published her response to the allegations which can be found here: https://www.raynorwinn.co.uk/     Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free):  Salt Path discussion: 02:36  Modì: Three Days on the Wing of Madness Review: 11:54  BO10: 18:04  Mark Gatiss Interview: 27:37  Bookish Review: 42:19  Superman Review: 49:59    You can contact the show by emailing correspondence@kermodeandmayo.com or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo  Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.      Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: podcastadsales@sonymusic.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey everybody, this is Simon. And Mark. It's the summer of sport, Mark. Now, I love a bit of footy and tennis and cricket and so on. And this summer, wherever I am, Nord can help me follow along just like I was there, because with coverage in 111 countries, I'm guaranteed to be able to watch wherever I go. But I don't like sports, Simon, so let me suggest the following trio of sporting films instead. Battle of the Sexes, Damned United and P'tang Yang Kippa Bang. I remember that's a good film.
Starting point is 00:00:29 It's a cricket film. With Nord, I can stream them securely and anonymously, even on public Wi-Fi. I didn't mention you can get NordVPN across multiple devices too, so we can both be covered and protected at the same time. Unwrap a huge discount on NordVPN by heading to nordvpn.com slash take. Plus, with our link, you'll get an extra four months free on the two-year plan. And it's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. Check the link in the description. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an
Starting point is 00:01:02 extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions. Shmeshians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non-fruit related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter,
Starting point is 00:01:30 we salute you. Well, here we go with another take. Thank you very much indeed for downloading us. I am in my showbiz North London home, but Mark, still on his travels, is somewhere exotic. I've been back. I came back from Croatia and then yesterday I came to Munich because I'm on my way to a film festival in Bavaria where the Dodge brothers are playing accompaniment to Murnau's City Girl. So I'm currently sitting in a, well you can see if you're watching the video, what can
Starting point is 00:02:20 only be described as a small interrogation room with wood paneling and very little else. What's the festival you're going to? I can't even begin to do the name of it. Shall I have a go? Yes. Why don't you spell it out? Tiroler, F-E-S-T-S-P-I-E-L-E. And they've literally sent me a document and I'm not making this up in that brilliantly German way. The document is labelled Problem Plan.
Starting point is 00:02:54 Problem number one, being able to say the name of the place that you're going to. But I hope you have a comfortable time in your interrogation room slash sauna because that's also what it looks like. What are we going to be up to on this particular show? We have a fantastically interesting show. We have reviews of, there is a new Superman movie, as you probably know. There is Modi, Three Days on the Wing of Madness, which is directed by Johnny Depp and featuring an appearance by Al Pacino. And we also have the new TV series Bookish with our very special guest. Who is Mark Gatiss, who is always very entertaining, extremely learned, very, very talented man.
Starting point is 00:03:34 Always very good to have Mark Gatiss on the show. You will hear from him later on. Bonusly, what are we saying? Bonusly, is that a word? No. For the Vanguard Easter, for our exclusive extra bonus section. Bonusly. What have we got? Are you a fan of the band Pavement? Indifferent, really. Okay, well then you may be indifferent to the film Pavements, which is a film about
Starting point is 00:03:57 the band Pavement. And also there is a reissue of Nine Queens. Plus, of course, all the other extra stuff you know and love every Thursday and the whole back catalogue of bonus joy is there for you to be a part of. Nine Queens. Toby investigative reporter Chloe Hajimathiu, which alleges that key elements of the story behind the three bestselling books, selling over two million copies, and the recent film, Assault Path, are not true. The film was billed as, quote, based on the incredible true story, end of quotes. As you know, we spoke to Jason about it a month ago. A summary of what the Observer have said. Their real names are Sally and Tim Walker. Sally Walker was arrested after being accused of stealing tens of thousands of pounds from
Starting point is 00:04:51 her employer. They borrowed a hundred thousand from a relative of Tim to repay the money that she was accused of taking. In return, Sally's ex-employer agreed not to pursue criminal charges. They couldn't pay the loan back. The Walkers owned and still own a property 90 minutes from Bordeaux in France. The claim that Tim Walker, that's Moth, Jason's character, had been suffering from corticobasal degeneration for 18 years seems dubious as the life expectancy of sufferers is six to eight years. Even in rare cases, people with a condition after 12 years are extremely disabled at that point
Starting point is 00:05:27 and need round-the-clock care. Neurologists and researchers, the observer spoke to, said they had never seen anyone live as long as Tim Walker and were surprised by his apparent lack of acute symptoms. Neurologists say the damage corticobasal degeneration causes to the brain is devastating and irreversible and therefore impossible to walk off. So there is a statement from number nine films and Shadowplay features who made the film.
Starting point is 00:05:55 They say this. The film is a faithful adaptation of the book that we optioned. The allegations made in The Observer relate to the book and are a matter for the author, Raina Wynn. We have passed any correspondence relating to the article to Raina and her agent. When we were recently made aware that The Observer was planning to publish, we advised our key collaborators, filmmakers and stakeholders. There were no known claims against the book at the time of optioning it or producing and distributing the film, and we undertook all necessary due diligence before acquiring the book. The journalist contacting us about the story at the end of last week was the first time we were made aware of the allegations." Now,
Starting point is 00:06:36 we have had, as I mentioned, lots of correspondence, as you can imagine. For example, Joe says, having read the book, watched the film and enjoyed both, I feel somewhat betrayed. Craig says, I'm not suggesting that either you or Jason misled their audience, but are the victims of this lie, assuming the article is accurate. I would be interested to hear your thoughts. It's disappointing when a supposedly true story isn't. Nick in Southampton says, if even the diagnosis of Moth's illness is
Starting point is 00:07:06 questionable then where does this leave the film? What happens to a film that is billed as based on a true story when we find out that it is in fact inspired by true events? Can a film like The Salt Path survive when reality bites? Because based on a true story and inspired by true events, I mean, that sort of semantics, really, the difference between the two. But Mark, what do we know as far as we're aware? Where are we? We should say we're speaking on Wednesday morning. This may well change by the time the pod drops on Thursday, or you're listening to it Friday or the weekend, but what do we know at the moment?
Starting point is 00:07:41 Well, pretty much what you've said is what we know. That statement from number nine films, which is the film company's position, which is we did a faithful adaptation of the book and as far as anyone knew, there was no question about the book at the time. And if there is a problem, then that is for the author. I think that there is going to be a statement, I think, from the authors, probably sometime while we're recording this show, because as you said, we're recording on Wednesday morning, so that we don't know about yet. It is clear that it is a very, very damaging allegation.
Starting point is 00:08:19 Having read the Observer piece, I have to say it seemed to be very thoroughly researched. I mean, it did seem to have been a very, very thorough piece of journalism, which obviously is incredibly disappointing if that is the case. But at the moment, I'm not sure what the official response from the wins is. Only that statement that you read out from the film company is, look, we did a faithful adaptation of a book, which at the time there was no sense from anybody else that the book was anything other than true. I think the only thing I've seen from her is she has said that the Observer article is misleading and they're taking legal action. So it wasn't specified in what way it's misleading.
Starting point is 00:09:06 Just to be clear, I think what she said was it was misleading and we're taking legal advice, which is a slightly different nuance. I guess this question to you is adjacent to this conversation. You have, as you've mentioned a few times, as because we like to do this, you have a book coming out in September. Thank you for mentioning it. Right. So I write fiction, you write factual books, you write nonfiction. Okay. Anyone who works with you or lives in your house knows how much you stress over getting the facts right, because this is your responsibility. I'm not saying this to try and make it worse. I'm saying this
Starting point is 00:09:52 to try and highlight the thing. The responsibility is on you as the author to get this right. If there is something that is wrong, then that is your responsibility. I'm saying this in a general sense, meaning that if you write non-fiction, it's the job of the author to get it right. Well, yes. It's also, I think that, well, look, I don't know. I mean, I wrote, as you may remember, I wrote a book some time ago called It's Only a Movie, which was basically a sort of autobiographical account of being a film critic. And I described that book as being inspired by real events. And I say at the beginning of it, I'm saying that because the way I remember things and the way things are, are not necessarily the
Starting point is 00:10:30 same thing. And in fact, there is a section in that book in which I tell a story about a thing that happened with me and Tim Polcat when we're on the set of a rock video in California. And then I say at the end of it, incidentally, I need to tell you that Tim says that none of this happened and I completely imagined it. I remember having an interview once with Edward Woodward about the Wicker Man. And Edward Woodward described this thing in which he said that as his character walks up a lane, they had these orange trees in Blossom behind him, these small orange trees. He said, but the thing was they only had five of the orange trees. So what they did was as the shot went past the orange tree, a guy would
Starting point is 00:11:10 pick the small tree up, run around the back of the camera and put it, you know, so that they'd be a continuous stream of orange trees. And I then asked the other members of the cast about this, and they all said, that's complete nonsense. that never happened. And I went back to Edward Woodward and I said, I've spoken to everybody else and they say it's not true. And he says, well, they're probably right. I mean, I remember it happening, but that doesn't mean it happened. So that's a sort of slightly different matter. I think the issue here is, I mean, I should say that, you know, I did an onstage with Jason and Ray Winn in Cornwall. I met Ray and Marth, which is short for Timothy. And they seemed, you know, wholly lovely, incredible people. So
Starting point is 00:11:54 reading that observer article, it is completely baffling. I think one thing that's obviously happened is there's been a lot of surprise, a lot of shock, a lot of, you know, so we, we absolutely do need clarification on what the truth or otherwise of that piece is. But that thing about fact checking and truly, I mean, it just, it worries me. Thank you so much for bringing up the fact that I literally signed off the final proofs of my book about film music yesterday.
Starting point is 00:12:20 And I had the stressiest day in living memory doing it because all I could do was go, is that right? Is that right? Is that right? Is that actually right? And that sort of thing just drives me mad. Anyway, I just mentioned it because the onus is on the author and I'm sure the situation will become clearer. We are operating in the dark the way everyone else is, but that's a sort of a summary of where we are at quarter past 10 on Wednesday morning. If that changes, if there's more stuff and if you want to
Starting point is 00:12:50 email us about it, correspondence at kermitandmayor.com. Also, I think the medical stuff seems to be the most serious allegation because obviously that will affect many other people as opposed to just the people involved in the financing of the house. So that needs to be cleared up. Presumably that is something which can be cleared up quite straightforwardly. I mean, the medical assessments, they will exist. So we wait to see what happens with that. But yes, presumably that is something that can be straightened out quite simply. To be continued, correspondence at kermannamayer.com. Let's talk about a movie that happens to be out that we might want to go and see.
Starting point is 00:13:28 Yes, let's talk about Modi, Three Days on the Wing of Madness. This is an adaptation of the play Modigliani by Denis McIntyre about the painter and sculpture. Do we say Modigliani or Modigliani? Modigliani. Modigliani. Well, they say Modi in the film anyway. So this is directed by Johnny Depp, previously known as a very, very fine actor, more recently known as a ludicrous wearer of hats indoors.
Starting point is 00:13:53 And of course, the subject of a very, very public and very, very messy domestic abuse case which went on for ages. So this is not Johnny Depp's first time behind the camera in the mid-90s. He directed a film called The Brave with Marlon Brando. Marlon Brando, who got paid $19 million for his work on the first Superman film. We will get to the new Superman film later on. Simon, do you remember The Brave? No.
Starting point is 00:14:23 Exactly. There we are. So Johnny Depp's previous director with him and Marlon Brando, but no one remembers it. And the reason they don't is it was a fairly rubbish film. It was a sort of risible story of snuff movies. And in the end, I think it didn't even get theatrically released in America because I think Johnny Depp decided that the response to it at the festivals had been very bad and he didn't want to put it into cinemas. Anyway, this is potentially much more palatable.
Starting point is 00:14:50 A slice of Modigliani's chaotic life set in Paris, 1916, we see Modi, as he's referred to, played by Riccardo Scamaggio, hanging out with drunken friends, an incredibly smelly soutine played by Ryan McParland, Maurice Utrello, who's drunk all the time, painting portraits of nudes, wrangling with his dealer, Leopold, played by Stephen Graham, and getting into a row with collector, and there's a whole thing about how this name is pronounced, Maurice Gagnac, there's a big thing about his pronounce, Gagnat, played by Al Pacino about the value or otherwise of his art. So this, this Modi is a, is a God of destruction, making and destroying art with the kind of
Starting point is 00:15:35 abandon that must appeal to someone who made and then set fire to their own career. Here's a clip. Listen, they're going to put me in prison. Okay. I need you to hide me. Please stop being so dramatic. Look at my hand. Oh my goodness, darling, you're hurt. Here's a clip. That's it. What? My love, you're brilliant. Am I? I mean, I am, but why? How can the artist be expected to create in the face of so much destruction? After all, he must reflect the world he inhabits. What you did was a statement.
Starting point is 00:16:13 Destruction is creation. Is it though? So there is this much inebriated carousing, this quaffing of wine and mushrooms and hashish whilst creating masterpieces down and out in Paris. In some of those, the early drunken scenes, Depp seems to have told his cast to do an impression of him doing an impression of Keith Richards doing Jack Sparrow in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. There's a lot of kind of, yeah, you know that thing, I did do that. There's a lot of artsy suffering, genius being misunderstood and unrewarded. There are some very ill, well, I thought ill-chosen modern music cues, specifically Tom Waits. There is a very tin-eared inclusion of, you know,
Starting point is 00:16:59 Waltzing Matilda, Tom Travert's blues, which would have made sense to some extent if the film was in Copenhagen, but it isn't, it's in Paris. There's a thing from Johnny Depp who said rather po-facedly, the saga of Mr. Modigliani's life is one that I'm incredibly honoured and truly humbled to bring to the screen. It was a life of great hardship, but eventual triumph, a universal human story that all viewers can identify with. It is hard not to read that statement as it's a story of a really brilliant artist who is horribly misunderstood by those around him, but who remained true to his sort of piratical outlaw roots, if you know what I mean. In fact, originally it's Al Pacino's project. He optioned the play back in the 70s. He wanted it to be directed by Coppola or Scorsese
Starting point is 00:17:46 or Bertolucci, Scorsese, pardon me. And then he obviously, he worked with Johnny Depp, he thinks of Donnie Brasco. And so now we have it with Depp behind the camera and Pacino appearing for one big scene. That's it, it's one big scene that he's in. I think there is some great performances. I think that Ryan McParlan is very, very good as this artist who's brilliant and creating really interesting art, but is also quite funny, but doesn't quite understand it. Weirdly enough, his performance reminded me a bit of Eugene Hutz in Everything is Illuminated. But Cino's character crucially has no interest in Modigliani, wants to be introduced to Soutine. And actually, I sort of thought, well, yeah, maybe the film would be more interesting if it was about the other characters rather than this. But, you know,
Starting point is 00:18:36 it's not terrible. It is better than The Brave and it is perfectly adequately directed. I don't think it will have much of an audience and I think it would be, it's one of those things that it'll be, and if you ask me about it in a couple of weeks time, I think my memory of it will be at very, very best passing. But it's so much a kind of the artist, the outsider, you know, the thing, it's a bit kind of,
Starting point is 00:19:03 yeah, tell us another story But is it better than that? Film we did with Paul Bettany. Do you remember? And it was clearly a franchise that they were hoping was gonna turn into something Which was completely unfranchisable Yes, I can't even remember the name. It was the name of the character, wasn't it? Mordecai. Mordecai. Mordecai.
Starting point is 00:19:29 Yes. Shockingly terrible. Wow. Wow. That's a blast from the past. Yes. Every single minute was a nightmare. Box office top 10 this week at number Snillin and 5, Hot Milk. Kathy Atterin says, I thought the story was very complex and yet clear. I quite enjoyed the movie and I actually think Emma Mackie should at least be nominated for something for her performance in this one. There is a sort of magical realism to it. Yes.
Starting point is 00:19:55 It does seem reflective of the primary location that the story takes place at, a Spanish beach town in the summer. It did feel like it was a movie made by a woman and for women. in the summer. It did feel like it was a movie made by a woman and for women. And then Kathy signs off by saying, loved it. But in the second paragraph, she says, I quite enjoyed the movie. She quite enjoyed it, but she also loved it. Anyway, that's hot milk. Yes. I mean, I liked it. I have seen some slightly sniffy reviews, but the main thing seems to be that it's an adaptation of a book in which there is a lot of description and people saying it's very hard to get that description on screen. I haven't read the book. I have only seen the film and having gone into it completely cold, I enjoyed it and I liked the atmosphere of it. I liked the kind of broiling repressed
Starting point is 00:20:38 atmosphere of it and I thought the performances were great. New entry at number thristy grumble. Happy Golden Sunshine on YouTube says, it is by no means my favorite Kronenberg feature, but perhaps the most personal of his, which in retrospect felt like a tremendous honor to watch. And what a tremendous cast to have guide us through. Kronenberg has the very best of visceral ideas. And Emil Stutzinski says, but is it as good as Jurassic World Rebirth? I think that in whatever new cultural dark age we've entered, and as you'll realise as we go through this email, Emil thinks we're in a very dark age, Cronenberg's work might be one of the last discernible instances of genius in film. Despite the fact that his name has been superficially taken up in popular
Starting point is 00:21:25 culture, audiences are lesser tuned to, willing to sit through, or able to decipher a film like The Shrouds than they have ever been, maybe in the history of the medium. The divided response on 28 Years Later, not a film that anyone should call difficult, suggests that at least half of all potential audience members are no longer capable of withstanding even 10 minutes of unbroken dialogue between zombie fights. That being the case, when garbage like The Avengers and Jurassic Park Part 287,000 represent the entirety of popular taste in cinema, I guess people with functioning intellects should just be satisfied that Cronenberg has been able to make at least one more film, even as the intellectually accessible artistry that he represents continues to wither and die in favour of a cinema wholly oriented towards five-year-olds, but which is consumed avidly by everyone young and older
Starting point is 00:22:16 like. Your sincerely. Wow. Okay. I mean... That's The Shrouds. Yes. Well, that started as The Shrouds and then it kind of went off into the state of the world. I think I feel more positively about the state of the world and the state of cinema than you do. I'm not saying that I'm right. I just think that I think we're not quite in that terrible a position. I understand why the shrouds has divided some people because it's not a film that's asking to be loved by everybody.
Starting point is 00:22:47 Also, I think that as Cronenberg was saying in the interview that I did last week, quite often when you're dealing with a subject, when it is a subject, you know, the grief with a very personal thing for him, the fact that there is humor in it just wrong-foot people. They're not sure if they're allowed to find things in it funny. But I think Kronenberg's, I think the fact that Kronenberg is making a film as full of ideas now as he was when he was first making features, you know,
Starting point is 00:23:19 with Shivers and Rabid, I think it just, his is one of the great auteur stories of modern cinema and long may he carry on. I was really delighted that he said he is indeed working on a new film, hopefully if he can get the financing for it. I don't think cinema audiences are quite as bad as that email would suggest. I understand that sometimes you can throw your hands up in exasperation, but The Shroud was never going to be a film with a big wide audience. But I don't think that's what it's trying to be.
Starting point is 00:23:53 Let's zip on through to the number one. Number 10 is The Ballad of Wallace Island. Which I liked very much, cost very little money and has done very, very well. Number nine is Sardar G3. Yes, not press screen. So if anyone has seen it, send us a review. Number eight here, number eight in American Mission Impossible, the final reckoning. We'll be speaking to one of its stars later in this podcast. That's right.
Starting point is 00:24:17 Of course we will. Yes. Well, first out, second out, third out. Wow. Seven here, seven in Canada, M3 Gun 2.0. I enjoyed it. It's a mess, but I enjoyed it. Lilo and Stitch is at six. I don't entirely know why it was necessary to do that with Lilo and Stitch except for the box office. Elio is at five.
Starting point is 00:24:37 Which I like more than a lot of people. I mean, again, it's messy and it doesn't have any of the classic lines of the sort of classic animations that appeal across the board. But there were things in it that I thought were really impressively bonkers. Number five in America, number four in the UK, 28 years later. I had a conversation yesterday with a leading British film critic who was absolutely shocked to discover what the end of the film was about because he hadn't got that at all. So when in this conversation with James King, it wasn't James King.
Starting point is 00:25:11 Well, as I mentioned, as I mentioned to you, child one saw it and didn't get it either. So no, but this person is my age. Oh, okay. This person is my age, which is no excuse. I mean, the clues are very evident anyway. I'm not interested in anyone else's opinions as a film critic other than yours, Mark. So thank you. How to Train Your Dragon is at number three here and in Canada. Again, did we need to do it? No.
Starting point is 00:25:36 F1 is at number two. Brad Pitt smiles and goes fast. And Jurassic World Rebirth is at number one. Of course. So a couple of emails here. Well, actually just one. Owen Implemouth. Just over three years ago, I went through a restructure at work, the result of which, not being what I would have liked, led to me going through some major mental issues with stress, depression, and a major burnout, where life's events exceeded my brain's ability
Starting point is 00:26:03 to process things correctly. I also suffered from terrible social anxiety, which meant I did not go to the cinema for about six months. Then my local picture house had a 30th anniversary screening of Jurassic Park, and I forced myself to go, and it was like seeing the film for the first time again. I got lost in the awe and spectacle, absorbed into the world of wonder and majesty of seeing dinosaurs on the big screen. And in that screening, I rediscovered the magic of going to the movies. From then on, I have tried to go to the cinema at least once a month. A few weeks ago, we had another restructure at work, and once again, the outcome was not what
Starting point is 00:26:39 I would have liked. So I took myself off to see Jurassic World Rebirth. The experience was nowhere near as profound as seeing Jurassic Park three years earlier. Neither was the film anywhere as good as Jurassic Park. Then again, it didn't need to be. I just needed to lose myself in some enjoyable dinosaur nonsense for a few hours, and on that level, it succeeded. Objectively, Rebirth is better than Jurassic World Dominion, although that really wasn't much of a stretch. Subjectively, however, I enjoyed it for what it was. Mission Impossible, Dinosaur Island, regards Owen in Plymouth. Owen, thank you. Well, happy customer.
Starting point is 00:27:18 Yeah, and that I think is probably as good as it gets. As I said when I reviewed it last time, I think that Gareth Edwards has done the best possible job directing a script that is really, really lackluster and limp. And I think that when they say they were trying to get back to the spirit of the original, it's like, yes, but with none of the spirit of the original. But I think it's well directed because he really knows how to do visual effects within a sort of gritty world setting. I didn't, I never felt engaged
Starting point is 00:27:54 by it at all, but I sat in a cinema where it was, as I said, a premiere, so they were kind of primed to like it with a bunch of people who really, really went along for the ride and whooped and cheered and roared in a way that I wish that I had been part of, but I wasn't. Mason Hickman Ross, and this email says, whilst nearly not as poor as, well, not nearly as poor as Locust World Dominion, I feel that my general sentiment for not only rebirth, but all Jurassic World movies can be summed up by one line from the youngest girl in this film. After being saved by Scarlett Johansson's team, the civilian family are on the boat and the little girl says, I hate dinosaurs. I wish they'd never come back. My thoughts exactly.
Starting point is 00:28:33 Although there's a billion dollars this movie will bring in, will hopefully allow Gareth Edwards' next project to be something more interesting. Correspondent to Kermit and Moe.com. Mark, excite us for what's coming next. Coming up next, we have an interview to do with the new TV series Bookish. For that interview, we have the one and only Mark Gatiss coming up after this. This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. It's Ben Bailey-Smith here. Now, did you know workplace stress is now one of the top causes of declining mental health? 61% of
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Starting point is 00:30:59 Hiring Indeed is all you need. This is an advert for Shopify. Mark, do you remember when we started this podcast? I do. Plunging into a world of subscribers, ads, merchandise, a lot to get done, a lot of different hats to wear. And hats to sell, of course. That's where the ad hook comes in.
Starting point is 00:31:17 For millions of businesses like ours, Shopify is the place to go for e-commerce. It's packed with AI tools for product descriptions, photography and page headlines, and others to help create social campaigns and emails. And best yet, Simon, best yet, Shopify has world-class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. Turn your big business idea into big bucks with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.co.uk slash take. Shopify.co.uk slash take. So our guest this week is Mark Gatiss, starting out with League of Gentlemen just over 25 years ago, moving on to Sherlock and Game of Thrones, also the last two Mission Impossibles.
Starting point is 00:32:15 Mark has proved a bit of a dab hand at acting, writing, and all things stage and screen. He has written and stars in Bookish about a crime solving bookshop owner in post-war London. We spoke about it and him and you'll hear that conversation after this clip from the show. What are these brown spots on the pages? You can get straight to the heart of the matter, Mr. um... Jack. It's just Jack. That's called foxing, Jack. Just Jack. It's what time does to books. To all of us.
Starting point is 00:32:47 In the profession we say it's slightly foxed. Interested? You know there's a mistake. A mistake? Well, isn't there? Above the door. A sign. What about it? Well, it's wrong, isn't it? There's no apostrophe in books. It's wrong, isn't it?
Starting point is 00:33:06 There's no apostrophe in books. There is. There isn't. There is. There isn't. There is. There isn't. There is if your name is Book and you own the shop, which it is and I do.
Starting point is 00:33:12 My name's Book. Book's Books. Confusing, I know. Or is it handy? I can never decide. Anyway, I'm Book and I run a bookshop. This one, obviously. You must be here about the job.
Starting point is 00:33:23 Tea? And that is a clip, in fact, it's like the opening sequence, I think, of Bookish, which is a new TV series brought to you by all-around good guy and national treasure, Mark Gatiss. Hello, Mark. How are you, sir? Hello, I'm very good. Thank you for having me. Well, it looks as though you're in a, I don't know, some kind of Airbnb, I would think. I mean, a hotel is what we're doing. It's the big press junket for the show today.
Starting point is 00:33:50 You're the first. So I'm very fresh. Right. I'm never quite sure whether it's best to be the first or, you know, get you when you're warmed up. But anyway, I'm in London, Mark's in Munich. Just introduce us to, I think the great thing about that clip is we kind of get a feel of it already, but introduce us to bookish, which has been a labor of love,
Starting point is 00:34:12 I think. Well, it's a detective series set in London in 1946. I play Gabriel Book, an antiquarian book dealer, and I solve crimes on the side. And I'm in a lavender marriage as a gay man with my wife Trottie played by the great Polly Walker. And it's six episodes of naughty post-war crime. And it's something, yes, I've been working on it for a long time and it's one of my favorite periods, a very under-examined period,
Starting point is 00:34:42 at least Britain, really. The post-war period doesn't get much attention, but I think it's absolutely fascinating. So it's a kind of combination of the spirit of Alistair Simm in Green for Danger and the palette of Paul and Pressburger. That's what I've decided to pitch to you today. Right. Because I know you appreciate it. And did you, am I right in saying this, that you originally thought of this as a novel? Yes, actually, it's been buzzing around in my head for a long time, for various, I've
Starting point is 00:35:09 always loved detectives, I'm absolutely immersed in the genre and read hundreds of them. And I've always wanted to play one. And then I had this idea for a while, and then during lockdown, I mean, everyone's got this story. I thought, well, now is the time, I thought I might write it as a book and I started it. But I was looking for a light tone, black comedy really, and somehow the international atmosphere of the pandemic didn't seem to suit that.
Starting point is 00:35:38 I found I just couldn't get the tone. But weirdly, I found I could get the tone writing a script. So I wrote a script and then after lockdown, I was amazing. I was get the tone writing a script. So I wrote a script. And then after lockdown, I was amazing. I was at the Radio Times covers party and I met Joe McGrath and Walter Izzolino from a production company, Eagle Eye. And Walter said, you don't have a period detective in you do? And I said, I've got a script, like one of those scenes in a film that you'd ever quite believe. And that's where it started. What was it about the writing it for the screen that unlocked what you wanted to do, which you couldn't do in a book?
Starting point is 00:36:10 Tom- I suppose it's because I generally write scripts and not novels. And I suppose the flow of the dialogue and the tone I was looking for, I found easier to sort of express than in prose in that way. By weird fate now, Matthew Sweets, who I've co-written the rest of the show with, has novelized the all three stories, the very old fashioned thing, the novelization. So he's kind of found the toe which I was unable to find during lockdown.
Starting point is 00:36:39 I have to confess that I binged watched the entire series. I started and I was hooked and I just went all the way through. And one, no, I really enjoyed it. One of the things that I enjoyed the most is that one of the stories, each story takes place essentially over two episodes, although there's an overarching story. One of them takes place in the middle of the filming of a British movie. And there are loads and loads of things in there that I smiled at because I could imagine you coming up with them. Specifically, at one point, there is a discussion about British films, then they aren't any good. They're all rubbish. I want to make a
Starting point is 00:37:16 proper British film. And I know how much you are a great fan of, for example, Talking Pictures TV and the wealth of British cinema that we've seen on there. How much were you enjoying writing a whodunit detective set within that world that I know you are so affectionate about? Well, to be honest, the second one was Matthew Sweet's idea because, well, he wrote two brilliant books about the war and before the war, one called Sheperton Babylon and one called The West End Front about the British film industry and about London's hotels during the war. I said to him, can you write one about that and one about that?
Starting point is 00:37:55 A huge amount of that film stuff is from Matthew's amazing researches really. He really got the last interviews with an awful lot of people from the silent dates and stuff like that. So it's a huge amount of the real detail is from that, is that stuff. It's a wonderful playground, of course it is, and I remember adjusting one line, this book says Uncle Tom Cobbly and all, and I said, oh, let's make it Tom Conway for the four and a half people who will get that joke. So it was full of delights like that really. And there is a lot interesting stuff, I think, about that whole period.
Starting point is 00:38:39 It's a time when people were able to reinvent themselves, but also, you know, the early days of the film industry were replete with people in that Garbo and Gilbert way, whose careers never survived sound or went off in different directions. And I think it's always, it's sort of also appealed to me for the flavor of the whole show really, which is sort of bittersweet, you know, there's a kind of semi-tragic quality to an awful lot of that stuff. And it's also, I think the 40s is probably
Starting point is 00:39:10 the greatest decade for British film. There's also some, there's some lovely film referencing in the series. There's a sequence in one of the very last episodes, well, the very last episode, which is very brief encounter. And I thought that was really poignantly done because for a lot of the time, you know, you're enjoying the who-done-it aspect, you know, the solving of the cases. But there is also this very strong underlying story
Starting point is 00:39:36 of melancholia, of you know from the very beginning that a story is going to be revealed about love and loss. And it's revealed in a very kind of briefing counter way. Well, I mean, you know, it's the textbook really, isn't it? I watched the film several times again in advance of doing the show because it's just so brilliantly done. And that kind of, you know, it's coward, but it's also that sort of Rattigan like reserve is to me feels like so much part of the period. But also the reason that brief encounter really doesn't date is because it's
Starting point is 00:40:13 incredibly raw, I think, isn't it? I mean, for all the very, very posh voices you've got, it's just, it's intensely believable. And I think that, you know, that she falls in love with him while he's describing various pathological illnesses. intensely believable. And I think that, you know, that she falls in love with him while he's describing various pathological illnesses. And it's that's in the original play, which is called still life, that's the moment. And you just see Trevor Howard talking about these things that he treats as a doctor, and you can see in her eyes that something has changed. It's, it's really magical. And I think to try and capture that flavor, plus that Launder
Starting point is 00:40:49 and Gilead thing of the sort of light touch of, I think I've said before, I think I was put on this earth to make things that I would like to watch on Bag Holiday Monday. And that's very much the feel I wanted for the whole thing. A combination of the Lady Vanishes sort of lightness and fun and mystery with a more poignant undercurrent. Is there some, or plenty of John Gilgud in this, Mark? The motive in the queue was such a huge success anyway. You know what you're talking about here. I could imagine John Gilgud being Gabriel, but...
Starting point is 00:41:25 It's not so much that it's more... Gilgud is emblematic of how dangerous it was to be gay at that time. It's dangerous now, let's face it. It's not like it's gone away and things are getting worse in various parts of the world and who knows what's going to happen. I was particularly interested in that idea of the duality of it, of having to lead this apparently respectable married life. But also that Trottie, Buck's wife, is a very independent woman who lives her own life. It's not a marriage of convenience in that way. They've both had an extraordinary war and they've both
Starting point is 00:42:03 come out of it as different people. So, yeah, I was very interested in that whole aspect of it and also the fact that the war was a great liberator. You know, it was for so many people, for women particularly, I think, but also for gay people. And it became a popular cliché, I miss the war, because people actually, for all its manifest horrors, they miss the excitement, they also miss the incredible sense of that tomorrow might be your last day,
Starting point is 00:42:33 today might be your last day, you know. And I've said this elsewhere, but I read this amazing account by a Spitfire pilot, and he was responding to our allegations of their arrogance. You know, the sort of Douglas Bader model. They were, but you realize they were sort of mostly about 21 years old and they would go up into the air in the morning dogfight. And by the time they came back, three of their best friends might be dead.
Starting point is 00:43:02 Then they'd go to the pub and get absolutely hammered. And then he says in this diary, he said he would sit in the cockpit of his plane just inhaling pure oxygen to sober himself up before he went back up into the air. And I think if you then place those survivors out of that conflict into 1946, you have this extraordinary shattered world, but also people full of weird survivor guilt, but also full of optimism. You know, it's the beginning of the welfare state, the most radical government we ever had.
Starting point is 00:43:39 And this is such an interesting time, you know, to me. So I think I wanted to layer it with all those things going on and particularly for book that he is, I sort of took this from Lord Peter Wimsey, that he has a superficially very lighthearted attitude towards the world precisely because he's seen so many bad things and that's kind of his surface, but underneath there's an awful lot going on. Was there any part of you, Mark, when you were filming with Tom Cruise for Mission Impossible of his surface, but underneath there wearing an Elliott Levy mask. He probably would, you know, that's genuinely the sort of thing he would do. I want to leave you with a word, Mark.
Starting point is 00:44:38 My guess is that you know this word anyway, but it's the word that occurred to me when I saw the bookshop is of course the heart of everything and is an engine for so much knowledge and so on. But are you familiar with the Victorian word sluttery? No. A sluttery is a chaotic room, but a room out of which great creativity emerges. So it's not that. Thank you very much. That's going straight into series two. It's wonderful. It is because that's what your shop is. It looks chaotic, but there's wonder just around
Starting point is 00:45:08 the corner. That's very nice. That's lovely. I mean, in terms of the design, I wanted it to be, we used to say this about Baker Street and Sherlock, that it should look like a mess, but a mess you want to be in, not something that puts you off, you know. Sluttery, I love that. On the subject of wonderful words in the series, there's one moment in which Book says the word that describes getting the flesh off skeletons. Flenzing.
Starting point is 00:45:38 Flenzing. And there is a wonderful moment in which Book says, flensing, I must try to get it back into usage. And then a couple of episodes later, he does. And I thought that was a marvelous set up and payoff. I give myself a little moment to enjoy saying it because it comes back. Yeah. Great. And does the show come back, Mark?
Starting point is 00:46:03 Are we up for series two? Series three? Is there a book library coming up? Series two is commissioned and we start shooting in August, August two, the week before Christmas. So that's very exciting. So we're all, we're basically primed now between publicizing series one and starting series two, which is very exciting. And where can we find Bookish? It's on You and Alibi, which is freely available through Sky and Now. And Hilarious, brilliantly, all of this is, I just have to say this, because it's the eight-year-old version of myself will be turning somersaults. It's on the cover of the Radio Times and the TV Times this week. Oh, wow.
Starting point is 00:46:42 Together. So it's like Christmas, isn't it? Yeah. Mark Gatiss, thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you. So just to repeat, you find a bookish on you and Alibi. Before you talk about the show, there must have been a meeting involving executives where someone thought that was a good name for a channel. Because it's a capital U with a plus sign and then alibi. Even if it was constructed out of two channels or it used to be just alibi and they thought, I know we'll make it U and alibi, it just looks a mess.
Starting point is 00:47:16 Yes. But there we are. That's what it is. Mark said before, he said he wished he could say it was BBC One at 8 o'clock. But he's thinking life is more complicated. And as you've said before, Mark, everything is on now TV and you can find it on Sky. But anyway, and it's worth hunting out. I think you could tell from our conversation that we enjoyed the show. Yeah, I mean, I enjoyed it very much. If you're watching this review on YouTube, incidentally, and you want the setup,
Starting point is 00:47:45 just go back and watch the interview, which will also be on the feed rather than me just repeating everything that Mark Gatiss just said to set it up. Other than obviously it's about a bookshop owner, post-war London, his name is Book, he owns a bookstore, the center of the gag at the beginning is Book, apost apostrophe S because it's books, books. And he's referred to all the time as book and there we go. And there is an overarching narrative that goes over the episodes. The episodes, each episode is half of one of the stories. So there's six episodes, which there's three different stories are investigated. But there is an overarching story about the young man who appears at the beginning,
Starting point is 00:48:28 and he's been in prison. And obviously, there has been some shenanigans to get him to come and work at the bookshop. And the thing is, why? Why are they interested in him? Why is he important? And during the course of the story, we learn about books own backstory. And as I was saying in the interview, there's a kind of brief encounter thing going on there. I mean, I watched all six of them in a binge and that's, you know, it's the best part five or six hours. I really enjoyed it, partly I enjoyed it because I like the idea of the character. I like the idea of the person whose entire, when the young man arrives at the bookshop, the bookshop appears to be, what was the word you used? A sluttery?
Starting point is 00:49:11 A sluttery? A sluttery? A sluttery, which was a Victorian word which didn't catch on to describe a chaotic room, but a room out of which, you know, what it's creative, creative. But what he then, what the young man, just Jack does then is to start to, to organize it and he's immediately told, stop organizing it. It is organized and it is organized within the mind of book. Book knows where everything is, but all the things are connected through these very sort of vague connections that only make sense to him. It reminded me of that thing in, I said before that I thought it was in Fever Pitch, but it's not, it's in High Fidelity, the Nick Hornby thing in which the narrator rearranges his entire record collection in the order that he bought the records.
Starting point is 00:49:55 So it is a system that only he understands. And the whole point about book is that he's fascinated by detail, which of course is a classic who done it detective thing. There's an awful lot of old fashioned getting everybody together in the drawing room and saying, and now this happened, and then this happened, and this happened, although the program is self-referential about it. There is some very, very entertaining, I mean, put it this way, if you were ever with any of these people and somebody gave you a drink, you wouldn't take it because the chances are it's poisoned. It's that kind of, you know, the poisonings are many. I just thought it was a very clever amalgam of a sort of old fashioned, you know, sort of, as Mark, I think, was saying, sort of Wednesday afternoon crime drama, bolted onto a much
Starting point is 00:50:46 more modern story about relationships, about sexuality, about love and loss, but all these things happening in the same world. I should tell you that in the final episode of the first series, in episode six, I cried. And I found the scene that I referred to as the brief encounter scene, incredibly moving. And I thought, well, that's really clever because basically it's got this sort of slightly pottering music and it's got this really lovely animated title sequence that tells you, you know, this is nice, this is jolly, it's fun, you know, people getting killed all over the place, but, you know, it's not distressing. Yeah, it's, you know, it's kind of, it's very much generic. But there is underneath it something which is
Starting point is 00:51:37 rather more surprising, which is the story of why Book is who he is and how he got to this place and the mystery of what his relationship to, well, firstly to Trottie is, and that's his wife, and what his relationship to Jack is and what his relationship also is to this sort of sinister element that comes in at the very beginning in which he meets somebody on a park bench wearing a trilby. Tim McInerney being brilliant. in at the very beginning in which he meets somebody on a park bench wearing a trilby. Tim McEnerney. Brilliant. I mean, there isn't scenery, but if there was, he'd be chewing it wonderfully. He says, we want you to do this. And the book says, I don't do that anymore. I've just run
Starting point is 00:52:18 a bookstore. And then he says in this very sort of sinister way, effectively, you've got a nice setup, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it. So I mean, I really enjoyed it. I found it really, I don't want to say cozy because it's not cozy because actually the story about the love and loss is very interesting and very, you know, very modern. But there is something about it that it feels like a comfortable piece of clothing. And I love being in the world of it. I really, really liked being in the world of it with those characters. And I love the central character
Starting point is 00:52:54 who was this person who's pernickety about detail and is constantly grammatically correcting people. I mean, I can't imagine why that would appeal to me at all. No, not at all. And you can find it on You and Alibi. But let's say now TV in Sky, just search for it, you know, and you should get it. Anyway, it's the ads in a minute, Mark. But first again, it's time to step into our laughter lift. Well, hey, Mark, I hope I'm coming through loud and clear in Germany. Did I tell you about my new pet? No. I have a termite called Clint. Clint eats wood. Hey!
Starting point is 00:53:30 I went to the doctors this week with hearing problems. She said, Simon Mayo, can you please describe the symptoms? And I said, yes, of course. Homer is the fat guy with the comb over. Marge has got a blue beehive and Bart's the annoying kid. Anyway, did you hear about the Formula One nerds protesting outside cinemas about the accuracy of the sound of the cars in F1 the movie or FUR or F1? F1. They were chanting, what do we want? Proper F1 noises. When do we want them? Nyaaawwwwww! Anyway, that worked. Mark, sell me on your
Starting point is 00:54:10 review of the last film you were going to be reviewing. There's a new Superman. Okay, that'll do. What's better than a well marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver.
Starting point is 00:54:54 Okay, well, it's time for Superman. I've seen the posters. I haven't seen the film, but fortunately, Mark has. Yes. So this is, I know before everyone says, I've seen this already. So Superman, this is the new version of Superman, written and directed by James Gunn, the guy behind Guardians of the Galaxy, which is one of the more enjoyable comic book superhero romps. This is described as the first film in the all-new DC universe, DCU, produced by DC Studios, and the second reboot of the Superman film series. The poster says, it begins, which seems a bit rum really because for many of us, including those who recognize the John Williams theme which is used, it began with the Christopher Reeves Superman, then it was revived in 2000 and whatever it was by Bryan Singer's Superman
Starting point is 00:55:42 returns with Brandon Ruth or Ralph. Then it was revived again with Henry Cavill in Zack Snyder's Man of Steel, which we were saying just the other week, great trailer shame about the film. Then it was trampled to death in films like Batman v Superman, just all over the place. Then it dragged through the quagmire of not one but two versions of Zack Snyder's Justice League. So you're saying it begins, he's pushing it. It restarts is more accurate. Certainly tonally, particularly in terms of its visuals, its bright visual palette, it
Starting point is 00:56:19 is a restarting and a return to the sort of visual style of the Richard Donner Superman from the 70s that we all loved when it first came out. It's certainly closer to that than to any of the sort of the DC shadowy dirge fests that we've had. In fact, the very beginning, the opening title is very specifically reference the Richard Donner version. So David Currenswett is the clean-cut, dorky Superman who, as Clark Kent, no longer flirts with Lois Lane, played by Rachel Brosnahan, but effectively cohabits with her. She knows all his secrets, including the secret identity.
Starting point is 00:57:00 There is a line at one point about the glasses that he uses are hypnotic glasses, which prevent anybody else from realizing the thing that she realizes, it's the same guy. And at one point early on in the film, they're having a sort of a bit of a domestic. And she says, you know, you're always interviewing Superman. I think I should be able to interview Superman. And he says, okay, all right. She says, right, let's do it now. And she starts to interview Superman about the fact that he has recently intervened to stop a fascistic military country invading its peaceful neighbor under the guise of liberating it, an intervention which is seen by some as, in inverted commas, unethical. Here's a clip. Are you being serious right now? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:57:43 You'd let me interview you as Superman. Sure. Ready? Let's do it, Cronkite. Superman. Miss Lane. Recently, you've come under a lot of fire for what some might... I know, it's a lot of fire. It's a lot.
Starting point is 00:58:02 you've come under a lot of fire for what some might... It's a lot of fire. Today, the Secretary of Defense said he was gonna look into your actions. That's funny. My actions? I stopped a war. Maybe. Not maybe. I did. In effect, you illegally entered a country.
Starting point is 00:58:22 This is how you're gonna be? I'm not the one being interviewed, Superman. So playful, playful sort of screwball comedy tone with something maybe more serious going on underneath it. And yeah, but it sounded totally different. Yes. So it is perfectly possible to do as I did to go, oh, okay. So shades of Russia invading Ukraine in the setup, and there are also certain images that are in the visual depiction that you think, oh, well, that seems to deliberately echo news
Starting point is 00:58:53 images from the recent media. Anyway, Superman stopped the war, told the dictator that if he did it again, he'd come back and pin him to a cactus and give him a once over. However, tech whiz Lex Luthor, played by Nicholas Holt pin him to a cactus and give him a once over. However, TechWiz Lex Luther, played by Nicholas Holt, looking like a cross between Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk with a hint of Stephen Miller thrown in for good measure, has been providing weaponry to the aggressors and is engaged in a campaign to get Superman blackballed as an illegal alien who came here with the intention of taking over the world. And before you can say, hang on, I can see some vague parallels with the real
Starting point is 00:59:31 world here. Superman has been handcuffed, kidnapped by effectively by government forces and vanished off to a privatized torture camp dungeon in an off-grid pocket universe run by Luther. So tonally, it's all over the place. I mean, there's a sequence in it in which a black hole seepage causes a rip in the fabric of the time-space continuum, which threatens to tear cities and, I suppose, in the end, the whole world in half, which gives you an awful lot of smashy, crashy destruction, although they are very keen to point out that they did evacuate the city before all the buildings started falling over.
Starting point is 01:00:19 Then there's one scene in which there's a fight in the pocket universe, the pocket dimension, in which Superman's dog, Krypto, and there's a fight in the pocket universe, the pocket dimension, in which Superman's dog, Krypto, and there's a lot of Superman's dog. I mean, Superman's dog is in it a lot because it's not his, it's anyway, the dog, the super dog is in it a lot. And there's a fight that takes place in a sort of protean river that appears to be leading to a black hole and there's a sort of jellyfish octopus shape shifting character. I was watching it thinking, okay, I'm sorry. This is not a kind of Brian Cox physicist complaint.
Starting point is 01:00:54 It's I'm sorry. What did this actually look like when you storyboarded it? There's a lot of people flying and punching each other, which always seems sort of quite irrelevant when there's a black hole ripping the time space continuum, which appears to be threatening to tear the whole world apart. So it's all very daft, despite the apparent underlying political stuff. And it is also all unexpectedly good fun. I mean, there's some comic relief provided by these robot assistants basically doing
Starting point is 01:01:23 an impression of C-3PO. There's the MetaHuman Justice Gang who are actually very funny, particularly Eddie Gathegi as Mr. Terrific. Mr. Terrific actually gets many of the best lines. There's some very nice work from Pruitt Taylor Vintz as Superman's earthly father, as opposed to the parents who sent him from his original planet. And as for the central performance, I mean, it's like watching somebody channeling Christopher Reeve, who he is still the high watermark of the Superman portrayals, I think. And we remember recently, well, not recently, about a year or so ago, we talked about the documentary Superman, the Christopher Reeveve story and there was this sort of heartbreaking thing in it in which his father when he told him he was getting the Superman gig was really
Starting point is 01:02:15 impressed because he thought he meant he was getting the lead in the play you know man and Superman then he found out he was actually it was Superman it was absolutely appalled but as the years have gone by, we've all realized that what Christopher Reeve did with that Superman performance was really great, with particularly the emphasis on screwball comedy, particularly the way in which he played the vulnerability. Well, this plays with the vulnerability.
Starting point is 01:02:36 The very first time we meet Superman, he's just been beaten up for the first time. And so he's definitely on the back foot for a lot of it. And the sort of old school charm, the old movie star charm thing that Chris Reeve has had in Spades, I think you get a little bit of that in this performance. So overall, I enjoyed it. I should also say that in the screening that I was in, and this was the national press show screening, the film broke down not once, but twice. And the film is over two hours long, and the breaking down
Starting point is 01:03:09 meant that the film took substantially longer than two hours. And each time when we got back in and it started again, I didn't go, oh. I actually went, oh. And I think it is a great credit to the film that even with two breakdowns, I enjoyed it. So overall, it is as messy as a jelly trifle.
Starting point is 01:03:36 It's like somebody's thrown a kid's pudding at the wall, but I kind of enjoyed it. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. If Superman was going swimming in France and he only had those red trunks that you were talking about, are they too big? No. Not snug enough? No, wouldn't let him in. No, because they're Superman, they're sort of short trouser trunks, the wrestling trunks. Because the whole thing is that the idea for the costume originally came from wrestling, didn't it? That was the superhero inspiration. You take wrestlers, it's a kind of Luchadori thing. A giant haste access, that kind of thing.
Starting point is 01:04:13 Big trunks. ITV, exactly. Where do you see it? Correspondence of Kodomeo.com. Just before we go on a little feature here called Cinematic Value Corner, because we're talking about how expensive it is going to see films. Joe in Glasgow. Mark, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm going adrift on this email. Longtime listener here. Obviously, we want to celebrate local independent cinemas wherever possible, but sometimes you just have to go to the multiplex. The View at Glasgow Ford has no children's tickets, but then normal
Starting point is 01:04:46 screenings at any time cost a mere £4.99 a ticket. I had a wonderful trip there with child one and two to see the release of Babe. Only ruined by the parent who arrived half an hour late with her child, sat doing emails for about an hour and then left before the end, which is obviously a very bad thing. Of course. But Babe is 1995. Has there been, is there a, so in which case, 499, have I lost something here? Would that have been recently?
Starting point is 01:05:15 Was Babe back out in the cinema? Was it reissued? Did that happen? I don't remember. Three decades ago. I mean, honestly, I don't remember what happened last week. Yeah. But maybe it was a reissue.
Starting point is 01:05:29 This must have been a reissue. Must have been because I don't think 30 years ago you couldn't do e-mails on your phone, could you? I don't think so. No. No, no, absolutely. Okay. So if a contemporary ticket at the View Glasgow Fort to see Bay was £4.99, then respect to
Starting point is 01:05:44 them. Anna in Nottingham, Mark and Simon on the topic of ticket pricing, I wanted to give a shout out to a multiplex with family-friendly prices. The Ark Cinema in Beeston, Nottingham. On weekends and every day during school holidays, they run a kids club where tickets for children and accompanying adults are only £3 each. They don't show brand new films there, but frequently ones that opened just a couple of months before. We saw a Minecraft movie, which opened at the beginning of April, in June, for example.
Starting point is 01:06:10 This has allowed me to share my passion for cinema with my three boys. Anna, thank you very much. It's exactly what you need, isn't it? So three quid, summer holidays coming up. It sounds like the Arc Cinema in Beeston is exactly the kind of thing you want. Boom.
Starting point is 01:06:25 By the way, on take two, there's more Superman chat in one frame back because we're talking about the best films and TV that features Superman. Correspondence at kerbenamara.com, that is the end of take one, a Sony Music Entertainment production. This has been this week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. The producer was Jen, the redactor was Poolface. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast. Mark, what is your film of the week? I'm sorry, I'm still not at Poolface. Pooley McPoolface, Superman.
Starting point is 01:06:57 Okay, thank you very much indeed. Take two has landed. Wherever you get your podcasts, become a subscriber. There's good land. Thank you very much. Thank you.

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