Kermode & Mayo’s Take - THREE FILMS OF THE WEEK? Is that even allowed? + Olivia Colman

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

Some exciting news—The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo    Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time.    Another week, another national treasure. This week Simon Mayo talks to Olivia Colman, joined by Sophie Hyde, director of the new film Jimpa, in which Olivia stars. The film explores queerness, intergenerational family, and gender fluidity, and places kindness firmly at its heart - but will that be enough for Mark? You’ll have to listen to his verdict in this week’s Take Two to find out.    In this week’s reviews: The Christophers stars last week’s guest Sir Ian McKellen as a once‑great artist whose awful children plan to forge his unfinished paintings for their own financial gain. Obsession is a creepy love‑horror that’s far too much for Simon, but which Mark is more than happy to peer into. And finally, Normal drops Bob Odenkirk and Henry Winkler into a Fargo‑esque Minnesota small town packed with axe‑throwing, car‑blowing‑up oddballs. Sounds fun - but will Mark enjoy it?    Oh. And there’s the Laughter Lift. Sorry.      You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo  🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code [Take] at checkout. Download Saily app or go to https://saily.com/Take ⛵  A Sony Music Entertainment production.      Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Timecodes:  00:00:00 Audio start  00:06:30 Obsession review  00:15:14 Ad break  00:15:20 Box Office 10  00:30:50 Olivia Colman & Sophie Hyde interview  00:56:17 Laughter Lift  00:58:26 Ad break  01:01:53 Normal review  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's Shopify. com.com. UK slash take. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions.

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Free offer, now available, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. I heard your stomach rumble there. You need to have breakfast. Sorry, are we, have we started? I expect so. Okay, did we start with you going one, two, three, four, five? No, we started with your stomach.

The sound of my stomach. Okay, fine, thank you very much. Have you had breakfast? Well, I've had coffee. That doesn't get out as breakfast. Don't really do. You know this. You know, I don't.

two breakfast. Well, you do, but a little bit later. Yes, exactly. It's called tea. Oh, right. Okay. All right. Well, here we are in the same room. That's the only way that I noticed this thing. Had I been staying in your house, then maybe I would have had breakfast because you could have forced it upon me. But as you know, what happens is yesterday, I rang you to say, I don't suppose there's any chance that I can stay in your actual. It turned out there wasn't. You said, no, there's got an Australian in it. Australian from California. So how can they be in Australian from California? Originally from Australia

moved to California. Oh, okay, fine. Does that make sense? Yep. And then that kills that joke. Stone Day in that case, fine. What was the joke? No, no, no.

It's just, I thought that would be, you know... Why are we in a room anyway? Why are we here? We're here because I'm... After we record the show here, we're going to do take one now. We're going to do take two. Yes. Then we're going to take Ultra.

Yes, live. Live. Just like this. Just like this. And then I'm going to fly, fly like the wind from here to Gatwick Airport to go to Nice because I'm going to Can. And I'm going to Can. You use the C word. Yes, I know the C word.

And I'm going to Can because it is the premiere tomorrow night. What is tonight? Wednesday, so Thursday. So by the time you're listening to this tonight of the director's cut of Ken Russell's The Devils, which is finally being released. And as you know, I was kind of involved in finding some of the missing scenes. and we've been trying to get it released for ages. Anyway, it's finally happening.

So the premiere is tomorrow night in the Salman, well, at 9.15. In the evening or the morning? In the evening. Okay. You could do 9.15 at the morning for the devil's. But in Cannes, they do show movies all the time. Yeah, they show. So in your carrier bag, your on bag, your accent.

Just out there. What do you take to go to a thing at Cannes? I've got my suit because you have to wear a black tie, apparently. But I don't have black tie. High heels? Do you have to have high heels still? There was a whole year in which there was a whole, the protest, because they were made, they said that women had to wear high heels. And so all, I know, just ridiculous. How about it's like, that sounds something from the 50s. I know. And so the way that the, that all the women protested was they all went up barefoot. They literally, even if they had heels, they took them off and walked up the carpet barefoot as a protest, which was quite right. So yes, I'm going to do that. And then that's going to finish around about midnight. And then I'm on the first flight out on Friday.

So are you ignoring the nightlife of Cannes? Yeah. What about having a dip in the sea? No. Why not? Have you been to Cannes? Yes. Have you been to Cannes when the festival's on?

Not that festival. I mean, when another festival has been on. What other festival? TV, selling TV. We were selling the H.T.B. And the places were full of, you know, representatives of TV companies around the world. So you go and sit next to some oik.

Yeah. And you say, this is a very good show. And they go, really? Why? You go, well, because of all these reasons. Okay, thanks. Next. You know. Did you have any meetings on yachts? They were, all the meetings were as short as West Street and going to see Kirstama.

Which by the time this goes out, might have become hugely important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But did you have any yacht meetings, or were they all in tents or in cubicles? They were all in hotel lounges. Okay, that kind of thing. And whilst you were there, did you go swimming? I think so, because the weather was really. really, really nice, and we were staying in a nice hotel, and they had their own beach,

so we went down and... The hotel had their own beach. Yes. Yes. Which hotel are you staying in? I've got no idea. Okay, well, the hotel I'm staying in doesn't have its own beach. Really?

Well, you should have a word. Okay. With the devils. Yeah, and they're going to say, yeah, you're here for one night, stop complaining. Okay. That's very exciting. It's very exciting. You're off to...

So I'm going to get up, and I'm going to say, ladies and gentlemen, here it is. You know, Ken would have been thrilled. The director's cut of devils. Then I'm going to watch it because they've done it. because they've done, you know, they've remastered the whole thing. And then I'm going to... You should stand up again and protest like you did that time. Mark Kimmer dragged out of the film he's introduced.

It's not like that. It shouldn't be like that. How dare you? Out you go and take your heels with you. Actually, I do think that I should go wearing heels. I think that would... I've got size 14 feet. All the women barefoot and all the men in high heels.

That would be fun. Very good. Well, until we get to that moment where Mark is taking off and disappearing to his showbiz lifestyle, you have to do some work. And you need to talk enticingly about the films you're going to review. Well, we've got an absolute packed show. We've got reviews of the Christopher's. Sir Ian McKellen was on the show last week, fabulous interview about that. So that's out this week.

We have obsession, which is a new horror movie, which I can guarantee you're not going to enjoy. I won't see it then. You won't see it, exactly. But why not? I'll do it when we get to the review, okay? Body horror. And Normal, which is the new Bob Odenkirk movie directed by Ben Wheatley. And also, our very special guest.

Oh, yes, guests, in fact. Olivia Coleman must be about the most fated, well, one of the most fated UK actors at the moment, you would think. And you asked a killer question about, was it harder to work with your daughter or the Oscar and BAFTA winning Olivia Coleman? All this is to come. Sophie Hyde is the director and it's one of those things where it reminded me a little bit uncomfortably of COVID because I'm sitting in my room in North London.

And Olivia's in Canada and Sophie Hyde was in Adelaide in Australia. So we were spanning the continents. But it's a very interesting conversation and that movie is Chimpa. And so you'll hear that chat in this take. Yeah. And then we're going to have to put the review in take two because we've got too much in take one. And I think we're also putting it on YouTube. Yes, we will do exactly.

and also in Take 2, a review of Northern Soul Still Still Burning, which is a documentary about Northern Soul music. That's a good title. Yeah, very good. All very entertaining, I think, maybe. Correspondence at curbinameo.com. Tell us about a film that is out that we might be interested in. So obsession, okay?

18 for strong violence and gore. And that's why you're probably not going to enjoy it. So Indywire, talking about obsession, said it was proof that the Kregorfication of the Craiggerification of 2020's horror is in full effect. And what they meant was that this is the latest horror film from someone who, like the Philippi brothers who made, talk to me and bring her back, and Zach Greger, who made weapons,

which you really liked and barbarian, made their name in comedy, often online comedy, shorts, and then went on to make really sharp, really nasty horror movies. Bear in mind that, you know, you could go back to Jordan Peel and get out, because obviously he has a background in comedy as well. So there is this definite, sort of train of people coming into horror through comedy and then doing really interesting stuff.

So Fright Fest had been doing screenings of obsession, which I knew in advance, so I kind of knew, okay, it's got the Fright Fest stamp of approval. Written and directed by Curry Barker, who made a splash in a sketch comedy duo called That's a bad idea, was making short comedy and horror shorts for YouTube, made his feature directorial debut with a found footage horror film called Milk and Serial. Now, this obsession. So this follows Bear, played by Michael Johnson, who is this sort of shy, retiring guy who works in a music shop. And he's got a massive but unstated crush on his friend and workmate, Nikki.

She's his closest friend, but he wants to let her know that he wants her to be more than just a friend. And actually, we meet him at the beginning, practicing the speech in which he says to her, look, you know, you mean more to me. And then it cuts away. And actually, he's just practicing it. And his best friend is going, that's rubbish. You know, that's absolute rubbish. you're not going to get anywhere with that. He can't get up the courage to tell her that he loves her.

Instead, she loses a crystal necklace, and he goes into a crystal store, you know, a sort of Hocum store to buy one. He can't find the right one. What he does find instead is this thing called a one-wish willow, and it's a box. That sounds like trouble. Sounds like trouble, with a willow in the middle of it,

and when you take it out, makes a funny noise, and you break it in half and you make a wish, okay? And he says, yeah. And, of course, as is the way with horror films, you know, it looks like it's like a novelty, It's a kind of retro thing, but on the other hand, the thing might work. So he buys it for her to give it to her, and it's kind of, you know, because it's cute. But then he doesn't give it to her.

What he does is, as she gets out of the car, as he's dropping her off, he breaks it in half himself. And he says, I wish that Nikki would love me more than anybody else in the world, which happens with very bad results. Here's a clip. One wish Willow. You only get one wish. I wish Nikki Freeman love me more than anyone in the entire world. I love you so, so, so, so, so much.

Only the branch of a willow tree could conjure. It's weird how you two are dating all of a sudden. Like super dating. I think Nicky is going through or something. Like what? Is she okay? No. Seeks. What kind of supposed you put on her?

They have shops like that in Boss Castle. Oh, do they? Yeah, where you go in, they offer you... Yes. Things like that for a lot of money. You go, I'm not buying that. There's also the museum of witchcraft in Boss Castle. That's the one I'm thinking of that.

Yeah, I'll find. That's where it is. Okay. Well, I mean, on the one hand, there's sort of... There is a tradition in movies. Like, you know, in big, it's the thing about, oh, the fairground thing, you know, you make the wish, and it will actually come true.

And then, what do you then do with it? Well, apparently, The writer-director was in, first got the idea for this, he was watching an episode of the Simpsons. And it was an episode of the Simpsons that refers to the Monkees Poor. So the Monkees' Poor, as you'll know, because you're a big Stephen King fan. That's one of the kind of the, er-text tales of horror, which is basically be careful what you wish for, because your wish may come true. And in this particular case, that is absolutely what happens, that he wishes for something. And then it does come true.

Now, on the one hand, that's a kind of, you know, that's an outlandish fantasy. The reason it works, however, is that underneath it is a very real story about coercion, about control. I mean, the fact is he makes this wish that then effectively imposes his will on somebody else. I mean, it's not a million miles away from spiking somebody's drink. There is something really sinister about the fact that he has done this. And from then on, what happens is that she becomes more and more cracked because what's happened is that her free will has effectively been overtaken. And that bit you heard at the end of that, of the laughter.

The laughter and the smiling in this film is really, really scary. Remember those horror movies, the smile movies, in which you smile and really bad things happen. And I talked about Mia Goth at the end of Pearl, in which there's just this one shot of her smiling, and it holds it for three minutes. And the smile becomes really, really terrifying. This has got really, really, really scary smiling in it.

and then it's got the kind of the moments of what's described, as I said in the BBFC, violence and strong gore that kind of remind you of the grisdier moments of bring her back. I mean, I thought it was really, really well done. There's a bit of Ringu in the people moving in a strange way going on there. There's a little bit of Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction, but most of all, there is this whole really weird story about imposing your will on somebody else and then, then having to deal with the effect of that. Does a wish count as that?

Well, that's the point. It's like, you know, it's a horror trope. With all horror films, they only actually work if they make some kind of sense. And the monkey's poor thing is always, it is literally be careful what you wish for. And that is something which people say in the real world, not just meaning wish for. It means be careful what you long for because the thing is you might get the thing that you long for. And that may not be something that you actually necessarily. want. There is a great

central performance by Indian Everett who plays Nikki, and she is amazing in the film, but I thought the whole thing was really well-time. I came out afterwards, and a colleague of mine from, oh, actually, Boyd-Hilton. Boyd-Hilton. And he said,

that was really, wasn't it? And I said, yeah, it was really. Really? What? It was really, just really, really, really mess. But we had a great time, but it was as twisted as anything, and it's, it's, It's full on and I really liked it and there are things in it that are really, really, really. Is it body horror? Some horrible things happen to bodies, but I wouldn't describe it as body horror.

I said it's closer to a possession movie. I don't think it's going to happen for me. There's no cars in it. Oh, okay. I mean, but better to have sex with a car than someone who's possessed by the devil. But what if the car's obsessed with the devil? I don't know. You're not going to see it

but honestly if you're a horror fan like I said I knew it had the Fright Fest seal of approval and it's really easy to see why. Okay. If you see obsession correspondence at Kerromano-com

also should I go and see it if it turns up on a streamer I might with the lights on that kind of thing do you think? You won't. You'll watch the first half hour of it thinking

why on earth did Kerr Mode fuss about this and then you'll watch the second hour through your hands. So it's more hard than that

weapons? Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a different kind of horror, but yes. But yes. But it's really. It's really. Okay, bottom of page five now. Okay.

Still to come after the break? I'm not on page five, I've got it on the thing. You read it. You read my bit. Okay. Bob Odenkirk in a Ben Wheatley directed film called Normal. The Christopher's, which stars last week's guest, Sir Ian McKellon.

Simon says, And can we have two national treasures on the show in the space of two weeks. Yes, we can because also we speak to Olivia Coleman, who is with director Sophie Hyde talking about the new movie, which is called Jimper. And when you say Simon says, does that mean I have to do it? That's right. You lose all self-control. And it's a bit like the last movie. It's a bit like obsession. Simon says, read the script in just a moment. I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey. And together we have the podcast Office Ladies. Just because we finish rewatching the office does not mean we're going anywhere. Every Wednesday we'll be

sharing even more exclusive stories from the office and our friendship with brand new guests. Plus, you can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. So follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. Fabio Semin Tilly. Big hearts, big voice, big laugh. A rock star hairstylist who drove a Porsche. He was like a wizard behind the chair. The killers came for Fabio in his own backyard. You can't rationalize it.

You can't figure it out. There was rampant speculation about everything. But every wild theory was wrong, because the truth was even more unbelievable. What? Is anyone hearing what I'm hearing? And even more heartbreaking. The uncertainty of not knowing is a form of agony. From Sony Music Entertainment and novel,

this is cut, color, kill. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Cut Color Kill is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, add free. Okay, box office top 10 time. Before we get there, Legends, which is on Netflix, which obviously doesn't turn up in the movie Box Office Top 10, but we have been talking about it, what with it, you reviewing it. Yep. And you speak to that, Steve Coogan. That one. Someone who appears to be called paperless writer. Either that or they work for a company called paperless writer.

Anyway, it's on YouTube. Thank you, Mr. Paperless, who knows. Already watched the first episode and this one looks like a keeper. Despite the lightness and genuinely funny lines, this is serious stuff and the actors are all fantastic. Luckily in the US, Netflix drops all seasons episodes at once so I can watch this as quickly as I want and as gripping as it is, I don't see this six-hour season taking me more than a weekend to get through

it's that riveting. Yeah. How many episodes have dropped here? Eight? All of them. All of them. All of them. So we're just the same as America then in that case.

So thank you, paperless writer. But it is one of those shows. You think, okay, better watch the next one. Yeah, loved it. Loved it. I watched four, because that's what they sent us as the preview, thinking that that was everything. And I got to the end of four.

And as you said, it is you can't leave Bulldog Basil there. Correct. So into the 10, now the... Magic Faraway Tree, is it 10? Lovely. Seven weeks in the top 10. Very good. Great family film. Number nine, Iron Maiden Burning Ambition. So there were two music docs out last week. This and the Billy Eilish film. I did the Billy Elish film, so I haven't seen Burning Ambition. Do we have any emails?

No, but I'm in it. You're in it? I'm in the Iron Maiden documentary. Oh, really? What do you do? Introduce them on top of the pops. Oh, okay, fine. How do you know that, if you haven't seen it? Because I've been told. By?

by Nikki Chapman, who works at Magic, which is a companion radio station to Greatest Hits. And I see her every evening because she's about to go in, just as I'm leaving. And her other half is the manager of Iron Maiden. Oh, okay, fine. So she said we went to the opening, went to the Premier. Which was in Leicester Square, because it was a big water. And I turned up and you go.

So what do you say? And now Poppickers, Iron Maiden. To be honest, it'll probably be something like that. I feel as though I should have got paid though. You should have got told. If I'm in the Iron Maid, I'm in a top top 10 movie. I was watching that film, Lynch Oz. I'm in that.

I didn't know that I was in that. You should be paid. Well, apparently not. They can't just use you like that. And taking away all your self-control. There's an edition of sight and sound recently that had interviews with actors. I did two of them. They were transcriptions of the interviews I did on stage with Daniel Day-Louis.

and Jesse Buckley. No idea. Well, they need to pay you. Apparently not. Get your agent to get in touch. Okay, Iron Maiden at number nine. Hocom is at number eight. Which I enjoyed.

I mean, I thought it worked well, and I think that's horror that is much more in your wheel park. Yes, okay. Wheel park? Wheelhouse. Caravan Park. Just go down the park.

I quite like that, though. We'll park. Let's use wheel park now from now on. It kind of works and everyone knows exactly what you're saying. Project Hail Mary, seven here. Hocom is also number eight in America. Yeah. And Project Hail Mary is seven here and seven.

Yeah, Mays, maze, we both like it. I like it more than you do. And number six here, and they're the Super Mario Galaxy movie. Number five here, but number one in America is Mortal Kombat 2. Which I enjoyed. And I thought it was a step up from the previous Mortal Kombat, which was a step up from the previous Mortal Kombat, but I thought this was really enjoyable

and I like Carl Urban in it very much. Sammo via our YouTube channel. Is the movie great? I don't know, not really. Is the movie fun? Yes. It definitely is. My biggest gripe is that it's very apparent

who can do martial arts and who cannot. The Lukang Kung Lao fight was absolute martial arts film Bliss. I wanted more of that. Cano steals the show again. I wish Urban as Johnny Cage was as awesome as Lyndon Ashby was in 1995's Mortal Kombat. I still thought he was fun. The biggest issue I had with Cage was he's still supposed to be an awesome fighter.

And I feel like in Mortal Kombat 2, Johnny Cage is 99% comedy and 1% fighting. I'm 41, but I remember when even with the gore at the time, Mortal Kombat was geared towards kids and young people. Mortal Kombat gore and games have gotten so graphic now, I don't even think kids experience Mortal Kombat or care. Okay. Well, I haven't played Mortal Kombat. I've only seen the films, but I did enjoy this film. You still don't play computer games. No, I mean, I think I'm a bit late to start.

And just to be absolutely clear, nothing against them. I think they're great works of art. I've talked to Charlie Brooker about it. I've watched, you know, and my kids grew up playing them and love them. It's just not a skill that I have. And number four, number five over there, Billy Eilish, hit me hard and soft the tour, brackets concert. Which is directed by Billy Eilish and James Cameron, who says at the beginning, it's going to say, Billy Eilish!

And then James Cameron in tiny letters. And then at the end it says directed by James Cameron. and Billy Eilish, but it's, I mean, it's a great concert film, and I'm a big fan of the, of everything she does. I mean, I just think... Are you a fan of the 3D, Mark? I'm not, but it's in 3D, and honestly, I kind of forgot about it. They seem to have slightly tweaked the, how difficult it is to sit the glasses on your glasses, because I've got quite heavy glasses frames, but I put them on, and honestly, I forgot about it.

Okay. David Hopkins says, Dear Bad Guy and Bird of a Feather, having been lucky enough to attend the hit me hard and soft tour. Oh, wow. What a treat it was to enjoy it again in this amazing mashup of concert film and documentary. And what a joyful alliance between James Cameron, three Oscars, and Billy Elish, just the two. One of the grand old men of Hollywood still looking to push back technical boundaries 3D that actually adds to the experience and a young performer still only testing what seems like her limitless potential. Other concert films tend towards lionizing the performer, but this one emphasizes the communion between Billy and her.

have fans. It was remarkable how much this was replicated in the communal place of a cinema theatre. David, thank you. Good. Number three here, number four over there is the sheep detectives. Which I'm actually slightly surprised it hasn't gone into number one because I thought it was going to, we were talking about it last week when it came out. This is going to be big. I mean, it's obviously done well, but it's not, it hasn't. Maybe if it wasn't up against Michael and Debel Wears Prada. Yeah, then it would be number one. I mean, I thought it was great. I went in not knowing anything about it thinking how on earth is this going to work and then amazingly it works. It's really charming. Chris says, Dear you and you, on seeing the trailer for the

sheep detectives, I expected a silly who done it which was solved by sheep. By the end, I didn't care who'd done it or why because that wasn't the story. It's a story about grief and remembrance. At the heart of it are sheep who want to forget so the pain goes away, but then the importance of remembering the deceased and honouring them is mentioned. It was a scene. It was a scene. which had me silently sobbing, having suddenly lost two friends recently. The sheep detectives is a film that's probably not for young kids, but ideal for older ones and adults, helping those affected navigate through grief and, for those experiencing it for the first time, understand it. It's got an important message at its heart, but also has great laughs right

from the opening logo, The Chicken and the Description of God, which will be causing chuckles in Clergy Corner. Many thanks to the friends I've made through listening to your show who've given me the support, giving me their support, and to my dear friends, you'll never be forgotten. Thank you, Chris. Don't say you're absolutely right, incidentally. You're absolutely right about that. Anthony in Huntingtonshire. I like the comparison that it is akin to Babe versus Knives out, but more than that, it's a gentle introduction for a younger audience into the genre of the who done it. There is only minimal threat, although I concur with Mark that one scene is very sinister

for a PG and practically no injury detail. Regardless of the intended audience, I'd like to commend the film on how well crafted it is to fit the genre. There were enough clues so that the audience could deduce the perpetrator just before the reveal, but it wasn't so blindingly obvious as not to be a puzzle with red herrings of plenty, creating the necessary diversions along the way. And Johnny in Austin. Greetings from deep, too deep in the heart of Texas. I write to you about sheep. What a strange, strange movie to choose as the first to write to you about after a decade of listening. This evening, my wife and 16-year-old daughter dragged me to a screening of the sheep detectives. I knew little about it going in and didn't care to know more. I was expecting an animated

feature at the level of, let's say, trolls, and I was busy planning how to entertain myself with pacing the popcorn consumption. First observation walking in only a sprinkling of kids, as in two or three. It was a theatre packed with middle-aged adults. Second observation, I was fighting tears in the final five minutes. And then there's an explanation, which I'll skip over. Final observation, adults all around me were quietly clapping as the film ended. It was as if we all let out a collective, much-needed sigh of appreciation at an experience of human or at least sheepish decency.

Yes, it's a strange smoothie of a movie, but there's something deeply normal and simple in its spirit. Texans around me needed it, as did I. In a time and land giving into its grotesque streak, it was a small but true pleasure to see so many celebrate an outcast winter lamb being accepted into the herd. It felt relieving and right to celebrate care. The film had multiple such moments of goodness in its bumpy, strange ride. The applause didn't last too long and everyone dispersed in oversized trucks to continue to confront, endure or embrace whatever it is we are becoming over here. But for one strange moment we saw and applauded decency.

It was a really weird movie. Sheepishly, Johnny and Austin. That's a fantastic email. What a wonderful experience. And I think those emails collectively demonstrate why it was that I thought the film were going at number one. Yeah. You would see it. If you lived in the middle of Austin, have you ever been to Austin?

No. You know, Texas is weird. Austin is absolutely fabulous. We should go and do the show in Austin. and Johnny can be the only person in the audience but it's why South by Southwest is it. It's just absolutely fantastic. I said there was a moment when you said it's absolutely,

I thought, where's Mayo going? This is an unusual. Are we crossing the Rubicon? That would be a strange thing. Anyway, number three over there, number two here is Michael. Lots on this, but nothing worth reading out. And number one, although there is some in, as you might imagine,

take ultra. Oh, take ultra. Okay, fine, great, thank good. Number one here and number two in America is the devil wears Prada 2. Which is, you know, it's fine, but it's a lot of plot and not much else. Coco says the main problem with DWP2 is there, so actually I should say the full title as it makes sense. Yeah. Dear Pry and Mark or pre and Mark?

Prime Mark. Oh, there you go. It's a joke about prime mark. There it is. I say pre-mark. Anyway, the main... You don't. No.

You don't say... I've never said it out of that. Good Lady Serapis, oi, I'm off to Premark. The main problem with Devil Wares Prada 2 is there is no devil. Meryl Streep's Miranda is now the slightly edgy aunt you might want to hang out with. Mark was right, I can remember parts of the original, not so much this time. Shoahorning in shots of what I am sure are famous designers looked a bit desperate. Love the show.

Thank you, Coco. So that's the number one. There's lots more on this when we get to the Overflow car park in Take 2, which is available via Patreon. You are moments away from my chat with Sovi Hyde, the director, and Olivia Coleman, the star of Jim Parr. By the way, Mark, have you heard, more than once,

Vanguard Easter's get not only take one... Sorry, I've taken the corporate shilling here. I've swallowed the Soli Shillam. Vanguard Easter's get not only take one ad-free, but our weekly extra show, take two, ad-free. And if you sign up on our Patreon as an ultra, you get all of that plus our fortnightly extra show, take ultra. We open with golden era hip-hop, answer emails involving breaking bad, bell ringing and film cliches that should frankly be illegal, poor lovingly over the UK

box office office for April in grossly remarkable, and then brave the comment section in hot takes and cold comfort where things get loud, strange and occasionally unhinged. We finish as ever with one last thing where we have to recommend something and Mark said, oh, I've forgotten. No, I've remembered this. Have you got something? I've got something. I've got something.

Okay, that's great. That's Take Ultra for Ultras only. Head on over there if you like to join the club. Caching, thank you very much indeed. You didn't say in Hot Takes and Cold Comfort where people basically call Mark names. Which is another alternative title. It's a warning to those who go below the belt, below the line.

Which is the same thing. Don't go below the line. They're both in the same wheel park. I think so. We are literally collectively losing our minds, aren't we? Losing something. We're just drifting into senility. Right.

Okay. Let's talk movie and actors and directors. Okay. So we're going to speak to superstar actor Olivia Coleman and film director Sophie Hyde. They have made a movie called Jim Parr. Now, which is J-I-M-P-A. So obviously the first question should have been explain the title, which I don't, and they don't.

So therefore, you would listen through the whole of the interview without knowing why it's called Jimpar. So I'll explain now it is called this because John Lithgow's character is called Jim and he's a grandpa, but like many grandpas have decided, I don't want to be that, I want to be called something different. I get called Bestafar because that's what it is in. Bestafar? Because that's what it is in Danish.

He decides that he's going to be called Jimpar. Wow. Hence the title of the movie. That's the title. explanation you'll hear from Sophie Hyde and Olivia Coleman after this clip from the film. Hi! Who is it? Me.

You should say your name, not just hello, don't know who it is or what you want otherwise. You do like self-identifying you hypocrite. Hello, it's me, your daughter, Hannah. That's it, just a daughter. And a filmmaker and a mother and a woman. Is that better? Impressive. So Miriam gave me her key today because someone didn't leave one behind for me.

Who else has a key to the apartment? No one. Like my body, my home is my temple. And what happens if you have another stroke? Oh, God. If I have another stroke, even if you're here, go out and have a coffee. Jimpa? No, I'm deadly serious. That is a clip from Jimper. I'm delighted to say that I've been joined on one continent. by Olivia Coleman, who stars in the movie,

and on another continent by Sophie Hyde, who's the director, Sophie and Olivia, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks very much. Hi. Okay, so we have three different timesones, three different continents, but we are talking about one film, and the film is Jimper, it's directed by Sophie,

in my experience, no offense, Olivia, but in my experience, directors are always better at explaining their movie because it's their movie. So Sophie, Sophie, introduce us to Jimpa. Oh, that's a lot of pressure. It's a film about someone played by Olivia Coleman, who takes their teenager to visit their gay grandfather in Amsterdam from Australia. And that teenager decides they want to stay and live in Amsterdam with him and have a big queer

life. And Olivia's character isn't sure if she wants that, but doesn't really want to say no. So it's a kind of intergenerational story about three members of a family and then kind of the extended family around them. Yeah. You always make personal and intimate films, Sophie. This one is particularly autobiographical. Tell us how long you've wanted to tell a story sort of revolving around your father.

I always thought there was a story in my dad, and he would have liked to have thought so as well. It was actually just after he died, which was 2018, and I had been with him in a hospital room and had quite an amazing experience of talking to him about his life. But I also went back to my own teenager, Ord, and they were very young at the time, only 12, actually. And they just started to, like, become really involved in, like, speaking publicly about their queerness. And they were just starting to grapple with these ideas. And my dad was a very out and eccentric gay man. And I kind of, honestly, I just longed to put them in a room together.

I just wished for them to be able to speak to each other. And so that was the kind of impetus for the beginning of the film is a grandparent and a grandchild talking about what it means to be queer. And then I didn't know it would stay so kind of closely connected to our lives, you know, our family. That was a kind of surprise to me. Usually you try and have a little bit more of a veneer over your films and like pretend they're not so much about you.

Okay. And at what stage did you think of Olivia Coleman? I mean, when I took that idea to my co-writer, Matt, he said, I'm interested in this, but I really am interested in the character in the middle, the person who's the parent of the teenager and the child of the grandfather. I really want to know what's going on for her. And so that was where we kind of started writing from. As soon as we'd written, we were always like, who could this be?

Olivia Coleman. But it was sort of a joke. Like we'll never get Olivia Coleman. We couldn't get her to play this role. So right at the start. Okay. So Olivia, how were you introduced to Hannah, your character and the script, which became this movie? I believe, well, my agency sent the script to me and said, would you like to meet Sophie?

I just worked with a director that works very differently to me. And I felt a bit sort of disheartened. And they said, you got to meet Sophie. I think you'd really get on well. She works like you work. And so we met on a Zoom and I instantly went, oh, yeah, oh, no, I like this. This feels lovely. I was slightly anxious about going away from home.

I'm not good at that. So when I first arrived in Australia, Sophie had laid on as much as possible to make it as nice as possible. We went to see wild animals that were being cared for in a sanctuary and we had beautiful food. She laid it on thick and it was great. So what were you getting from Sophie? Just on the basis of the script plus the Zoom, what were you getting from Sophie that you weren't getting in this previous project that had left you, by the sound of it, somewhat disillusioned?

Well, Sophie has a history of working with actors in a way, which is a collaborative and you feel trusted and not like a warm prop. Some directors, I don't know, just don't understand that you bring anything to it. And Sophie was the opposite of that, you know. And I always do a little bit of homework and ask people, what's it like working with, whoever I'm about to work with. And I don't always listen.

And that's when I went slightly wrong, the one before. But everything pointed to a happy collaborative experience. And that's, I think, it's important. You know, we're not saving lives. we need to enjoy what we're doing. Yeah. Early on, Olivia, your character, Hannah, is talking about her parents' breakup.

And you say they chose kindness rather than conflict, which is a theme which kind of runs through a lot of the film. I'll come to Sophie in just a moment, but can you explain the significance of that in the story? I mean, Sophie will definitely explain this better than me. But I felt that from Sophie as well and everyone on the film. And I was also maybe, is that possible? But it is possible.

Sophie can attest to the fact that it's possible. And that did happen with her family. And it happened on set as well. And I love the point. There was a point when Hannah goes, I'm going to leave now that please don't take this as an act of aggression. And this is very, it's very Sophie. Sophie, can you explain that quote just a little bit?

I mean, some of that quote comes from like some humor, which is an idea that you have a character who's non-confrontational and she wants to make a film that's non-confrontational as well and the kind of the humor of that, you know, to see that. And to watch a character who on the one hand you think, oh, that's a very kind of like lofty aim. Like that's a great aim to seek this out. or is it repression? You kind of have this ability to kind of look at somebody in multiple

ways. But I think kindness is a really specific word. And I don't think it's always as nice and as soft and as gentle as we kind of, you know, use it. I think it's a very robust choice to choose kindness. It's not about just being like sweet to everybody. It's saying like, can I think differently about this? Could I choose a different path? And Matt and I, when we were writing the film, were constantly like, okay, what happens if when we think they're going to get angry at each other or they're going to do something that will kind of up the drama? What if they do choose kindness? So we were really exploring that concept of whether that was possible and whether you can have disagreement, like loving disagreement within that as well.

Robust kindness. You could have our Sophie first, you see, that was much better done. I think it's both sides of the same. Robust kindness, Simon. Well done. Yeah, okay, no, I shall remember that. So, so Francis, who is the non-binary teen, to which Olivia Coleman's Hannah is the mother in the film, as you mentioned, Sophie, is your non-binary teen awed? Was that a collaboration that started even before the collaboration with Olivia? I haven't even mentioned John Lithgow yet,

but was that inevitably the first of the collaborations here? It was one of the first collaborations. collaborations because Ord and I have been in conversation about kind of creative ideas for their life. You know, if you have a filmmaker as a parent, that's kind of what you get in part. And Ord is a very kind of switched on engaged human. So they were constantly asking me to kind of consider my life and the way that I was. And that kind of fed into the creativity. So they were really a part of the conversation.

I didn't necessarily know that they were going to be in the film. That was like that kind of was something that we needed to wait and see how that fit in and whether they were the right age, whether it would work with the others. And then it felt like that was the right choice at a point. But for sure, creatively, they were part of it. There were early stages in the kind of writing and conversation. But they were like, when we started writing, they were 14 and then the character's 16. And by the time we shot, I think they were, they turned 19 on set.

So things changed a lot for them. And would you say, Sophie, is it tougher to direct your own child or the Oscar winning, BAFTA winning, Emmy winning, Olivia Coleman? I mean, Olivia is like... You're lucky on the other side of the world. You're just like, you're like, what can you say? Like, it's a pleasure, like, to direct both of them in different ways. it's tough to direct your own child because I hold a lot of responsibility for them and I don't want them to hold too much responsibility.

So there's another thing going on. But also I really felt in safe hands with Ord. And with Olivia, just, you know, the instinct. And I always felt that there was something new being brought to like every moment of that. So I felt always a great ease with that. And when did John Lithgow come into the picture? because he plays the gay father of Olivia Coleman's. Hannah, what an extraordinary presence he is.

He's just such a wonderful actor. You must have felt once you had Ord plus Olivia plus John, there you go, that's the movie, sorted. I mean, it's incredible. The three of them are like a fabulous sort of triangle of difference, I think, that kind of really complement each other. I do think of it kind of as an ensemble too, so we had these other great actors who could come.

come in and round something out. And I felt like everyone was getting a chance to play in different ways in the scene, which was really thrilling. Like, the best thing being a filmmaker is being with and watching actors, like, find each other and, like, bounce off each other. So, I mean, it's extraordinary. I mean, you're right. John just walks in, he's like this giant personality,

this giant, like, Thespian, you know, it's very exciting. Olivia, how did you work with John before? No. And my God, it was just lovely, and I'd not long before lost my dad. And there was a scene where we had to dance together, and I used to dance with my dad. And John, who feels like he's seven foot tall, and he goes, oh, my darling, and just gave me a huge big hug. And he's just the most beautiful, loving human being. And everybody, Kate, Dan, Eamon, we had the best time.

And Sophie, with the cut with Olivia and John there in the cast, known around the world, was this an easy movie to get released or was it surprisingly difficult? Oh, surprisingly difficult. But I think that's the case for a lot of films now, particularly at this moment. It was. I mean, it's not easy to finance an indie film even with the best people in it, do you know? This one we kind of put together because of these guys coming on. And then it's been beautifully, like it is getting everywhere. But it's not like one of those things that's like snap your fingers and there it is in a hundred, you know, cinema's a city kind of thing. No, it's been, it's, it's taken its time. It's been a slow kind of

process of releasing it around the world. Because of the subject matter, because it's dealing with queer issues. I think it's many reasons. I think it's, it's just film is like there's less, there's more films around, they're harder to get seen. Yeah, I think people are nervous about backing this kind of content for sure. I think this is a very volatile moment and it's not a volatile film. So it's like how do we how do you kind of push that in the world? It's not even kind of engaging in the big dramatic argument about queerness. It's sort of people just living their lives and trying to be loving and kind to each other. Turning on the news is so miserable. You think you want to watch something which is about kindness and it's funny and it's,

I don't know, it feels like the perfect antidote from my point of view. I would watch it twice a day. Olivia, there was one thing in your conversation towards the end of the film, and I think you did let us all down, and I think the film didn't answer this question adequately. Who does put tofu in risotto? Yeah. Always a bad choice.

Such a bad choice. You know, I know, I'm open to tofu, not in a risotto. That's all kinds of wrong. Yeah, I think so. Sophie, what would your father have made of the film? He would be so delighted to know who these guys are in it and that it's being seen and the kind of conversations that are happening around it. I'm pretty sure he would also say to me, like, why didn't you do a more exciting bit of my life?

Be where I could be a bit sexy. Wow, I mean, John takes his clothes off all the way through the movie. How much more sexy does he want it to be? Very sexy. It's true. Maybe he would just be totally thrilled. Olivia, just out of interest, what would your father have made of this film as well? He'd have loved it, and he'd have sat there and cried all the way through. He definitely, from that generation, you know,

where potentially boys don't cry, he was not one of those. He'd have, oh, it's lovely. He'd have loved it. I appreciate your time, Sophie. It's time for bed. Olivia, you just got up. Thank you very much indeed for your time. Olivia, what are you working on now, if I may be so rude?

I'm doing a Sarah Treem's script called Cry Wolf in Canada, which is not nearly as jolly as Chimpa. So, Sophie, what do you work on next? I've got a couple of things, but I'm really exploring this regenerative oyster reef along the South Australian coast and sort of making a fiction film that also looks at the kind of destruction and regeneration of that reef, weirdly. All right, well, we look forward to that. Olivia Coleman in Canada, Sophie Hyde, in Australia.

Thank you very much indeed for talk to us about Jimba. Thank you. Thanks, Simon. If you get the opportunity to have Olivia on the show, then you take it with both hands. And you did. You've got two laughs with questions. Well, well, you know, I think there were, one was end of the day, probably had a glass of wine. Olivia was just working

She was vulnerable First thing in the morning So probably had a glass of wine Yeah Yeah well you know what You know what Coleman's like I should say that during that interview When she said she talked about the director

With whom she had not had a great I think we figured it out I'm not going to say But I think we figured out who that was Yeah Who'd have thought It was Brian Jenkins I know

He's such a well-loved person There you go So so embarrassing Anyway so Because we're super packed Mark's review of Jimpa, Jimpa, is going to be in Take 2. Also, if you're not a subscriber, we'll put it on YouTube as well. So everything is available.

Because we've still got two more movies to get through. We use running out of time. Also in Take 2, One Frameback is all about favourite Olivia Coleman roles of which there are so many. And you go, wow, I'd forgotten she did that. Oh, and I'd forgot. Oh, and she did that as well. Okay. So thanks to Olivia and Sophie for being on this week's show.

But last week, I was down Surrey MacKillan's pub, the way you are. Yes. And that's all up and available for you to watch. But the Christophers is actually out this week. It is. So, latest from Steven Soderberg, and we do this every single time, right? Stephen Soderberg, the prolific multi-hyphenate between behind, sex lies and videotape, the Oceans remake series,

Aaron Brokovich, which Julia Roberts was, you know, fated traffic, contagion, magic mic, but then went on to be a stage show. He retired from directing in 2013. and since retiring from directing he's made Lucky Logan Unsaid High Flying Bird The Laundromat Let Them All Talk No Sudden Move Kimmy, Magic Mike's Last Dance Present, Black,

Buck and Christmas That's my kind of retirement Exactly, so he's really not trying This is written by Ed Solomon Who is probably best known as a writer on the Bill and Ted movies But more importantly, worked with Soderberg on No Sudden Move

This is a very different beast Although interestingly, in your interview with Sir Ian McKellen He did say, you shouldn't say too much about the plot because there is a thriller element. There is a kind of mystery element. And I'm probably going to say more about the plot than he would because I think it's, you know, a certain amount of it's in the trailer anyway. So it's described in Wikipedia, incidentally, as a black comedy. It's also a kind of melancholy odd couple movie.

I think you could even say it is arguably a very late in life coming of age story. So, Michael Cole, obviously, been a brilliant person who you had a lot. I will destroy you is Laurie. She is this disenchanted artist come forger, who is enlisted by these two siblings, Barnaby and Sally Sclar, to take part in a deception involving their aging artist father, played by Sir Ian McKellen. So he was once fated as an artist. He was, you know, he was, and then he sort of fell out of fashion.

Maybe he was cancelled, maybe he was forgotten. He now makes a living recording. these paid-for cameo videos, you know, the ones in which you go and say, oh, hello, the one. Yeah, Farage does those. Farage does that and famously said a really, well. Look where that got it. Look what, yeah.

Let's not go down there. Anyway, so they think, Barnaby and Sally think that he has some unfinished Christophers, which is a series of paintings that he did, up in his attic. And when he dies, which he will inevitably do in the not-too-distant future because he's getting on in life, those paintings will be very valuable and what they want is for Laurie to get a job as his assistant to find the paintings

and if necessary finish them because they know that that's something that she can do she doesn't want to do it but they basically strong arm her into doing it because they know things about her that they don't want to come out so she says okay

so she takes the job and then begins a sort of cat and mouse in her relationship with this aging, slightly cantankerous artist for whom she is She clearly has a love-hate relationship with this past. Here's a quick clip. Oh, my side walks so long.

That was up off to an industry who needed someone to say to them. It was a move that gave you cover to pretend it was you who was in control of his own downfall. No, but no, I'd done with them, Laurie. Yeah, because they were done with you. Well, as I said, when Sir Ria McKellen said, you know, well, let's not say too much about the plot. but I think that is basically set up because the whole of the rest of the movie then is the relationship between them

and will she follow through on the deception, how will she get on with him, what does she actually want, what does he actually want? And it is clear that there is some kind of backstory in her head about him and why it is that he may or may not be important in her life. In your interview, Sir Ian McKellen said,

was this role written for you? And he said, well, I heard that it was written for McKellon, and me, and I can certainly believe it in her case, and I just kind of accept it in my case. I can't imagine anybody else playing these roles. I mean, it is the most Sir Ian McKellen role I think he's ever played. In a good way. In a really good way. I'm not saying that as a bad thing at all, and he's fantastic. One of the reasons he's fantastic is because obviously, he has a background in theatre, and there's a lot of handheld long-text. Stephen Sederberg

shoots himself, okay, so he operates the camera. He does it under a pseudonym. He also edits under a pseudonym. So it's him doing the things. And it looks to me like what they've done for a lot of the scenes is they've done one long continuous take. And Sir Ian McKellen was saying that he'll do one, two,

three takes, tops, that's it. And he was saying that's really good because as opposed to, for example, working with Peter Jackson in which, you know, there'll be 20, 30 takes because you've got to get everything completely right in terms of the choreography, the special effects. And the way this works is that it keeps it fresh. I did feel that what you

watching was a really fresh performance. It didn't feel like something that they had 38 runs at. And with actors of this caliber, when you've got Sirian McEl and Michaela Cole together sparking off each other, of course you're going to get it in a couple of takes. That's absolutely fine. And it could have felt stagey in... But that's exactly what it isn't. Yes. Which is precisely the point about Stephen Soderberg doing the camera. Because actually when you consider that essentially it's a drama in which a... large part of it is two people talking in a room or two people kind of arguing in a house, that doesn't sound very cinematic. But Soderberg has got such a cinematic. I mean,

he's, the guy lives and breathed cinema. And there is something about the way that the camera sort of dances around them, and it is a dance, essentially, that it makes it feel like it's, like it's a really cinematic experience. I mean, I'm a big fan of Soderberg's, not least because I think his work ethic is absolutely terrific, but because I think that what he does is he, he He understands what makes something enticing to watch. And in these two performers, he has two performers who have extraordinarily expressive faces, okay? And one of the things about Michaela Cole's character is that you know that there is a backstory in it. But you know what the backstory is long before anything in the script tells you what the backstory is.

And the reason is because she's got one of those faces that just tells the story. And the combination, I mean, I'm not saying this is just like a, she's worked in it. She's a brilliant actor and that's why she can do it. But it's those things about those little micro expressions that the tiny, tiny responses. And when you've got the two of them together and they're both working at that level, you just think this is great. And I really enjoyed it. I think it is about something as well. I think it is about, there is a real melancholia at the heart of it.

I mean, on the one hand, it's about, you know, art and why we need art. and do we need art and what makes art good and, you know, what's the difference between a real thing and a forgery? And as I said, in both the cases, there's this sort of, you know, what is going on with their relations to these paintings? And actually when they, when all that starts being explained, you go, I know, I knew all of this stuff because I could tell it from the way that you were behaving.

Also, kind of interesting that in terms of the horrible children, how does he refer to the horrible children? He says something like the parasites or the, or the can or the, or the can of, or he's fantastically dismissive. Fantasticly dismissive of his kids. The kids are played by Jessica Gunning, who was a scary stalker from Baby Rain Deer and James Corden. And I have to say,

I think they both do a very good job of playing them. But the interesting thing is, they're his kids. They didn't just turn into, they didn't come out just those people. So there is a whole thing as well in the drama, which is, this is what he has generated, this kind of level of resentment, because he is so can't. or at least has become so cantankerous.

Anyway, I really enjoyed it. Did you like it? I thought it was probably one of my favorites so far. I mean, I just thought it was wonderful. In other hands, other directors' hands, other actors' hands, it would feel a bit lumpy and a bit stagey and a bit slow, but that only occurs to you afterwards, I think. The one thing I was slightly surprised by is the release date, because this is not awards corridor now.

The Oscars have just happened. And didn't it look to you like, oh, I mean, I was thinking of some of the Roger Michelle movies like Venus or something. But I was thinking it's just weird because it's the kind of thing that you think you would release coming up to Christmas because it's so obviously got awards potential. I did mention in the interview, I think, because Sirine McAllen has never won a BAFTA and he's never won an Oscar, which seems incredible. Therefore, he probably will for this because, as you often say, it's his turn.

Yeah, it is. But also not just his turn. This is a great performance. So I think unless the people who, I mean, I'm a BAFTA voter, so I won't forget this. And you would just think, okay, just remember this film. When it comes to voting, when it comes to the end of the year or when it comes to decision time. Okay. Well, it's May.

So you're going to have to remember that in January. Okay. Well, I think even I might remember the Christophers and to vote for Ian and for McKedley. Because I thought it was really, really terrific stuff. Yeah, me too. So that's very good. Correspondents of Kevin May.com. please let's know what you think once you've actually gone to see it.

But now, oh gosh, this is going to be so good. I'm just saying that every week. It's never true. It's never true. And it won't be true this week either. Because it's the laughter lift. Here we go. Anyway, Mark, here we go.

Face-to-face comedy. That's what this is. I don't know about you, but I cannot bear door-to-door salesmen and saleswomen. Can you? I hate them. They get right on my blooming nerves. I had one come around the other day asking me if I thought, if I'd thought about my funeral arrangements

and would I like to buy a coffin? And I said that's the last thing I need. Hey! That must have been from 1954. But what's the door-to-door bit of that? I mean, it's just, anyway. Anyway, have you ever, it's a bit of a non-secretary?

Have you ever dated a twin? No. I used to court one in my younger days. People used to say, how can you tell them apart? And I said, oh, it's easy. Allison's always got nicely painted pink fingernails and Terry's got a big bushy ginger beard.

I like that one. Anyway, it's very chilly at the moment. I just snorted. Yeah, I'm very interested. That's the first time that's happened in the laughter lift. That's true. It's a very attractive feature. So chilly at the moment, isn't it? It reminds me of years ago, me and the good lady ceramic

they steering doors were down on our luck, and we got 30% off a two-man tent at Millets, and we slept in it from November through to March. It was the winter of our discount tents. Thank you. That Simon Paul is a joke from the side of that army surplus store in wherever it is now is the winter of our discount tents. I cannot believe you passed that off as a laughter lift entry.

But he's the other side of the glass, so he can't actually correspond. Seriously. Seriously. Anyway, that went down very well. We got a snort. It was called Lawrence Corner, wasn't it? No idea. Mark what's to come? Well, Mark says, my reviews of normal and the other thing.

Normal. That's it. It's just normal. After this. Okay, just before we move on, interesting email here from Tom Della, secondary English teacher at the King's School in Grantham. Hello? All right, Tom? Yes, Grantham. Tom says, Dear Woody and Buzz, I am a secretary school teacher in Grantham, Lincolnshire, and your global brand of wit attainment has kept me sane

when commuting to work at the crack of dawn and driving home after a long day of teaching with the sun setting. A big shout out to teachers across the land and students working hard for their sats, GCSEs and A-Levels and also Scottish hires, which he doesn't mention, but I'm just adding that in. I was listening to your award-winning

Wayland-Tutani Corporation podcast last week. I'm glad that's cool. In which you discussed the term denouement, kudos to Simon, for reaching to his bookshelf for the answer, which I did because it was right next to me as opposed to now when it is not. De Numaumor is a term taught in secondary school English classrooms up and down the land,

usually within a structure known as Fritag's Pyramid. He was a German novelist and playwright from the 1800s. Teachers use his structure to help students understand the plot structure of the text that we are reading, but also to help students create a structure of their own when they're writing stories in creative writing. In teaching to this to students, the universal example of a plot

which adheres to this structure is Toy Story 1 which I know is a movie series dear to your hearts so here is a helpful diagram which I shall hold that for you Mark I've got it on my screen again and a very teachly

but concise explanation one exposition we arrive in the setting of Andy's bedroom and learn the toys come to life Woody is Andy's favourite toy this is the status quo the balanced norm two initial incident

slash conflict Buzz Light Year arrives and threatens Woody's position challenging the status quo. Three, rising action. Woody's jealousy leads to Buzz being knocked out of the window and both toys become lost and end up in Sid's dangerous

house next door. Four, climax. Buzz realizes he is just a toy and, with Woody, works together in a high-speed chase to get back to Andy. Five, falling action. Woody and Buzz reunite with the other toys and resolve their initial conflict. Six, denouement. They become friends and share Andy's attention as the toys

settle into a new balance, new status quo. I refuse to use the term the new normal. A heartfelt, thank you for all that you do, and the redactor. He just types. Your podcast brings such joy and comfort to your church members. Keep on, keeping on during these turbulent times from Tom Della. So there you go. So that is obviously taught.

That's Freitag's Pyramid. It's very good. I'm reminded of a thing that Kurt Vonnegut used to do, which was a line description of how plots go. And he said, how it works is like this. the guy, the person starts here, okay, and then something happens to them, which takes them up to here, and then something really bad happens, which takes them down to here, and then they retrieve it, and they end up above where they started.

He said, that's one plot, and the other plot is they start here, and then their dog dies. And it goes all the way down. You trace the exact line from Fritius Pythiermines. Exposition, initial incident, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution de Numa. Very good. Look it up. There's lots of that. Anyway, Tom, thank you very much indeed. What else is out, please? On the subject of the new normal. Yes. Normal. Oh, is it new? It is. Excellent. And it's called normal. So after nobody and nobody two, for nobody two, I interviewed Bob Odenkirk for this very show. In that, Bob Odenkirk played, you know, kind of apparently ordinary Joe, who was in fact a killing machine. Now we have another dark comedy actioner in which Bob Odenkirk plays an apparently ordinary Joe, in fact, turns out to be. to be quite the person.

So this is written, again, by John Wick creator, Derek Kolstad, who apparently wrote the original script, a version of the original script for this before doing the Nobody films on which he and Odenkirk collaborated. And then Odenkirk now gets a story or a co-writing credit on this, so I think he had a lot of input into it. So basically, there's a touch of Fargo about it, and there's a touch of hot fuss about it.

So Bob Odenkirk is Ulysses, who is this sort of stand-in sheriff who goes to the inappropriately named town of normal Minnesota. They need a new show, they need somebody to stand in until they get the new sheriff in. So he's just filling in. One of the first things that happens is he sees a moose. And everyone says, oh, the moose is really important.

You know, it's really famous moose around here. It's a figure of some legend. He also sees a sign, which says that they have recently raised 16.8 million for the town hall. And he goes, wow. you know, how did you raise 16.8 million? Somebody says, well, the community really came together on that one. So the townsfolk have got this kind of, you know, homespun, you know, mom's apple pie thing,

kind of cutceness, but they're also like the townsfolk in blazing saddles, but they are, you know, there's a side to them. However, as with hot fuzz, and this is the hot fuzz connection, behind the apparent, oh, you know, it's a nice town, there's a whole other thing going on for the greater good, into which our central character stumbles. Here is a scene in which he is welcomed into the town by the mayor, played by none other than Henry Winkler. Okay, good.

I want to thank you for coming. Of course. So let me get this straight. Did I hear, you saw the moose? I did. I got a picture of it. God damn. I am the only one in this town who has never seen that moose.

and I keep an eye out for it. You know, in Native American culture, the moose is a symbol of endurance and survival. So, what do you think of our little town? It's charming, yeah. You know, I hear that you are a very laid-back kind of guy, not a crack-the-whip sort. Is the moose loose about the hoose?

Lord Rocking is 11. Very good. Well done for getting that in. So essentially, when he says you're not a crack the whip guy, he's basically saying, you know, ah, you might be the guy we're looking for somebody who's willing to play along with whatever it is that's going on in this town that enables them to raise 16.8 million for the town hall.

And then there is a snowstorm and a power outage and suddenly our central character finds himself in the middle of exploding events in which it's every man for himself. So I interviewed Bob Odenkirk on stage just earlier on this one, week and he said this interesting thing, which was he said of all the characters that he's played, I mean, obviously, Saul Goodman and the central character in the nobody films, he said, this is the one that is most like him, because in nobody, the gag is that the guy is, he's sort of retired super spy who's got all these abilities. He said, but in this, he's just

full of flaws and full of weaknesses. So when everything starts kicking off, you do get the impression that he actually might get hurt and then he actually might not survive. And that is true. The film is directed by Ben Wheatley. Now, I'm a big Ben Wheatley fan and it relates, I think, most specifically to a Ben Wheatley film which a lot of people have forgotten about called Free Fire, which is this kind of sort of shoot-up up in a warehouse in which Ben Wheatley said this interesting thing.

He said the problem with most movies which have violence in them is that they forget the things that actually make the audience wince. And he was talking about... I wasn't talking about the John Denver soundtrack, was he? The John Denver Soundtrack. Well done for remembering that. I interviewed him. for it.

Wow. Yeah. There was a period when every film had John Denver. Because his music had suddenly become available in copyright.

But no, but he was talking about the kind of comic thing about, you know, when an anvil falls on somebody and go, dang! And he said,

it's that thing about, you know, if you get your fingernail, bang, then that's the thing that really hurts. And in the case of this, when it all explodes,

and that is actually the phrase that Bob Odenkirk use, it goes on and then suddenly everything explodes. It works really well because Ben Wheatley understands the mechanics

of how to make those sequences. On the one hand, there's a lot of kind of slapstick about it, and there is that sort of dang cartoon thing, but there is also the, you feel, you feel the wax and you feel, you know, the bangs and the dangs and the dings because of the way that he directs, because he's a really, really sort of visceral physical director. And the result is, I thought it was riotously entertaining. I love Bob Odenkirk anyway. He's got that kind of doer, you know, sort of miserable, misrublest resting face

that we've all come to love. I mean, I love Beckles, Saul, obviously. I think you did too, didn't you? And he's just a great screen presence. And it's amazing that he has gone from that into basically developing this career in action movies. But this worked particularly well for me because it, you know, it starts,

it plays it, it's got the setup, then there's a sort of, where is this going? And then it all goes full on Ben Wheatley. And it was just really enjoyable. And right now, It was interesting.

Olivia Coleman was saying this, just, you know, you turn on the news and, and we need a movie that celebrates kindness in the case of Jimpar. I think we also need a movie that celebrates a bunch of people throwing axes at each other and blowing cars up. And frankly, that's what you get in normal. You get all the deadpan stuff that I like, and then you get all the Ben Wheatley chaos that I like. And it just romped along.

And I say this in a really, really good way. It is properly a popcorn movie, but it's got its feet on the ground, Ben Wheatley knows how to do physical, and Bob Odenkirk knows how to do, stick with this character because there's interesting stuff going on. And it's got Henry Winkler in it, who's just great in everything.

And a loose moose about the hoose. That's it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, Scarlett, and Dom, the redactor, Simon Paul. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast. Come and join us on Patreon.

Mark, what is your film of the week? This is really, really difficult, because I like all three movies that we've had, that we have. So I'm going to say my film of the week is the Christopher's and normal and obsession. The normal Christopher's obsession. I'm not sure that counts. But anyway, very good. How fantastic to have three films of the week.

And remember, Jimpaugh coming up, review in Take Two. We'll be back next week with Leo Woodall talking about his new movie, which is called Tuna, as in T-U-N-E-R. It's not about fish. I think I'll bestow a year's ultra membership to our correspondent of the week. Well, why don't we give it to Tom Della in Grantham? That's Grantham in Lincolnshire. For telling and for explaining about Freiburg's Pyramid or whatever it was. If you'd like a little bit more, I'll have to take one.

Head over to take two, where we dive into invented words for feelings you didn't know you had. Gently pedant our way through the misuse of the word fulsome, although I might disagree with that. argue about lofi cinema and CGI excess, wrestle with empathy on screen, debate opera versus musicals, shed unexpected tears over monsters ink, and

ask whether parody can kill an entire genre. There's folk horror, folk wisdom and folk from Exeter, Birmingham, Brittany and beyond. In take two. Kaching. Available now for subscribers, head of it to Patreon, and join in the fun.