Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Todd Haynes, May December, The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, The Marvels & Saltburn

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

Simon meets director Todd Haynes to discuss his thorny, new offering ‘May December’, which stars the powerhouse duo of Julianne Moore and Natalie Portman, and tells the story of a seemingly perfect married couple’s marriage buckling under the pressure when an actress arrives to do research for a film about their notorious tabloid romance twenty years prior. Mark also weighs in on the film, along with giving his thoughts on ‘The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes’, the latest instalment of the dystopian kids franchise, which sees Rachel Zegler star as a defiant female tribute from the impoverished District 12; ‘The Marvels’, the second instalment for Brie Larson’s titular superhero Captain, which sees Carol Danvers get her powers entangled with those of Kamala Khan and Monica Rambeau, forcing them to work together to save the universe; and ‘Saltburn’, Emerald Fennell’s class-skewering psychological thriller, which she was on the show to talk about last week. Plus, Mark and Simon take us through the Box Office Top 10 and the film events worth catching in this week’s What’s On. Time Codes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are ad-free!): 09:53 Hunger Games The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes Review 21:55 Box Office Top Ten 30:37 The Marvels Review 35:43 Todd Haynes Interview 56:26 Laughter Lift 01:00:15 Salburn Review 01:11:44 What's On You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayer. A Mark Kermod here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal Drama Series. Very exciting, especially because Superstar and friend of the show Edith Bowman hosts this one.

Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching the Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the crown, the official podcast, first on November the 16th. We're not going to clock. I've got a clock here. Oh, I see. So you're counting down. And you know how everybody agrees that Black Friday is ludicrous and only based on the fact that it's the day after Thanksgiving in America, which we don't celebrate.

I mean, it's not a bad festival to have. It seems to me, but why can we have input in Thanksgiving where you'll get sit around and eat as opposed to the Black Friday thing which makes no sense. The sense it makes is that there's a day when the shops are closed and then afterwards everyone has to go mad and go back to the shops. But they're not closed here because we, you know, because we don't do Thanksgiving. However, having said that, I noticed that our merchandise for next week on the 24th and 25th, COVID-19 would take much, has 20% off. On Black Friday.

On a Black Friday, some marvelous tradition. And it's great that we have hands across the ocean to link up with our transatlantic colleagues. That's right. And just to make me feel slightly better, I am going to have a Thanksgiving sandwich. Are you next Thursday? What's that going to consist of? I don't know, something for which I'm very thankful. That's where it has to be. And I'll go and thanking people just to make me feel thankful.

Yes. There's a very good Eddie Isod sketch about they when the pilgrims having said, you know, they arrive and this marvelous country that has nobody in excuse me, would you mind just getting out the way and then and then they go, you know, they offered food, don't you want that to do that food? And then they go back and go, um, the food, I had been sorry if you miss it. I love love the thing you're doing with, anyway, here we go. If you were there at the time, it was hilarious. It was hilarious. That's almost as good as two old guys doing pie-

Oh, I think it is. One old guy doing Eddie is of. On this particular podcast, thank you for downloading it, by the way, and thanks for being part of the legend. What are you going to be reviewing? I am going to be reviewing the Hunger Games, the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. I don't like Songbirds and Snakes, but that ain't what it takes to love me. Correct. Jim Stank. Thank you. Go just say in the car on the way to the studio this morning. Yes. We were talking about politics. That's right. We were talking about the political pendulum,

you know, and whether a farmer, the extent to which, if at all, the barmer was responsible for Trump. Answer, not. Political, and now we talk about the political pendulum, which is one day's over here, and then the next is over there. See how many in the control, what's get this? So Simon said, pendulum swings, like a pendulum do. And I said, Bobby's on bicycles, two by two. Westminster Abbey, the Tower of Big Ben,

the Rosie Little Cheeks of the Tower of Big Ben, the Rosie little cheeks of the little children. No, who's gonna be hating this particular sequence? Anyone who's concerned with our demographic. You're quoting Roger Miller from 1965, I don't even remember it. I don't even remember it. Anyway, hunger gains here.

Also, a salt burn, the interview with Emerald Fennel was last week until his last week's podcast. And, May December, with this week's fantastically special guest, one of my favourite filmmakers, Eves, Todd Haines, obviously. And also the Marvels. You somehow, that's in the charts. That's it. It is in the charts.

We weren't able to do it last week because they didn't review it. Yes, because they didn't screen it in time for it, whether the screening happened when we were recording the show. So I now paid good money to go sit. Very good. And you're not resentful at all. No, it was money well spent. Also, Extra Takes, which has landed alongside

this very particular podcast, is very, very busy actually, because there's so much out. So what do you mainly, atop reviews of? Extra Takes includes reviews of the documentary, The Mission, which is really great. The documentary, Tish, which is really great. And the new film by Eli Roth, Thanksgiving, there will be no leftovers. There will be no leftovers. Yeah, well, we all saw the trailer in 2007, because it's the film of the Grindhouse trailer. We can watch

list, we can not less TV movie movie week take it or leave it you decide. This week is about unbelievable, which is a mini series based on a real life case. And just to say in advance, I usually what I do is I give the series two episodes to see whether it gets its teeth into me. And I can tell you that I've seen the whole thing. So you hated it. The top of that automatically I would just say say it's a shame they've gone with that as the title. There's a real so many other things that are called that. If you look up unbelievable, you got a choice. Oh, okay. Okay. But there is a very good reason for okay. So extra reviews also, pretentious moire is currently marked 23 against marked 19.

Quite confusing. Yeah, although I think that the, it's not up for dispute. One frame back is inspired by Saltburn. It's movies about salt and burns and large English country houses. Okay. About which we definitely have a fetish sea last week's interviews. Not movies featuring naked final scenes. Okay. About which we definitely have a fetish. See last week's interviews, not movies featuring naked final scenes. No, no. What did you say to Ember?

And Ruffin, you ruined murder on the dance floor and she said, I've enhanced it. Yes. I thought it was a great mistake. Yeah. And it just interesting, enhanced is, is an interesting choice. I think see the movie for details. You can access this Fire Apple podcast, or you can hit extra takes.com for non-fruity related devices. If of course you are already a van Goddhist, Mark always says.

Mike in Solford. I hope I haven't missed the boat with this, but my contribution to the mispronunciation of film titles in 2017, Robert Redford, romantic drama, Our Souls at Night. Not so much mispronunciation, more of an unfortunate mishearing, really. I was a little taken back where my girlfriend suggests

we watch it one evening and only realized the actual title of the film went interpeared on the screen. Also for lyrics, in fact, I should say my parents got married at All Souls Langenplace, which is famously the church next to the BBC, and I have a friend who left us now who always referred to it as Langenplace. Now I'm falling down. The sorted, cesspit podcast trip of people saying rude words that they actually shouldn't. Yes, I can only apologize. This was another discussion that we had in the car on the way here. Podcasts where they like to curse. So can they would just make sure that there's some

bird song on there. That's it. Yeah. Also, for lyrics that end with the title of the song, you need to look no further than the cure who have just like heaven. Let's go to bed and play for today, which all fit. Tickley Tonk, it's time for Tubby Bye-Bies. Mike and Solford, slightly disturbed by that final payoff. Mark and Simon, first time emailer, Middle-ish, time listener says Liam, back in the 90s, I had a trip book to see my cousins in Rockaway Beach, Rockaway Beach in Long Island, New York.

I was desperate to buy a copy of Reservoir Dogs, which wasn't available in the UK. That's right, the certification was held up on video. Okay. One afternoon, I found myself traipsing around Times Square, looking for a half decent bar or pub, not easy. When I chanced upon a video shop, I'll pop in and get my reservoir dogs video and then off-out trundle for a well-earned, overly expensive pint of miller light. I went

and asked the young assistant if they had a copy of reservoir dogs and she stared at me blankly. And I could see there was a problem in translating my shepherd's bush accent to man-hat andese. I repeated my request a bit slower, trying not to sound too patronizing. She gave me another funny look, said, follow me, and off we went down a couple of aisles, passed the crime section, passed the thriller section, and all the way up to the musical section. She crouched down to the bottom shelf and handed me a copy of the Wizard of Oz. I did ponder for a second or two whether this is such an English thing to smile and see. Oh great, actually, yes, that's exactly what I want to watch.

Cheers and skiddaddle sharpish, but my need to have a band video was greater and I said, I'm sorry, it's not The Wizard of Oz, it's Reservoir Dogs, the Quentin Tarantino film. Anyway, I'll be with Extremely Rubbish Football teams that can't win at home from Shepard's Busch, which is a QPR reference. An extremely wonderful band from Swindon beginning with X that no one ever plays, which will be XTC. Anyway Liam, thank you very much. And this is Paddy, by the way. No, you must play XTC on great to see, right?

I'm actually. I'm Sergeant Rock, you know, Sergeant Rocking overtime, making plans for Nigel. Tows are long. I'm afraid they don't get, in fact, I said, he's working overtime, making plans for Nigel, towers of London. I'm afraid they don't get, in fact, I've now just thought I should make all those big 45s. Can you play, can you play Peter Pumpkinhead,

which is an absolute banger. No. Paddy says, last week's mention of Imagine TV show Judge Accordingly. Yes. Riso remind me of why. You read something out and then you said,

yes, I judge accordingly. And I said judge accordingly sounds like a judge. Because that would be a brilliant TV series called judge accordingly. So Paddy says it instantly made me think of Elizabeth Dunn, an Irish judge who has served as a judge of the Supreme Court of Ireland since 2013. Her proper title is Justice Dunn. That is so good. That's a movie. That is.

If there's anyone from Marvel looking and you're scratching around for, I don't know, something slightly original, maybe justice done with an Irish accent, that's going to work. Enjoying the new Ish format, says Polly. Anyway, correspondence at clonemote.com. That's where you send anything pithy and entertaining. So very, very busy week loads of intriguing loads of stuff taken away. The Hunger Games, the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. I like Songbirds and Snakes. That ain't what it takes to love me and I'm not going to explain that. The prequel to the smash hit Hunger Games movie series,

the prequel, like its predecessors based on novel by Suzanne Collins, the novel was first published in 2020. I haven't read the novel. I read the first of the Hunger Games books when the thing was happening. So this is set 60 something years before the events of the first film, a novel. Tom Blithe plays a younger version of Coriolena Snow, who we know from the main movies

as the tyrannical leader of Pan M, which always makes me think is for him. Yes, sorry. I'm played with sinister gusto by Donald Sutherland. Enjoying himself enormously. Enjoying himself enormously. I didn't say that. I don't mean like that. In that way, yeah, the traditional sense. So he's an 18-year-old hoping to redeem his once-proud family in the post-war years. Dreams of winning a prize scholarship. Instead, due to a change in rules and stuff, a lot of plot points at the beginning, he finds himself assigned as a mentor to Lucy Gray-Baird, who is a tribute from District 12, chosen to take part in the 10th Hunger Games.

She is played by Rachel Zagler, who was brilliant in Spielberg's West Side Story, and she was the, you know, the kind of a great discovery of that came, it was fantastic. And she can sing. So conveniently in the film, she plays a singer, and she gets to sing several times. And in fact, her singing is a plot point, because when she gets chosen as the tribute, she sings on television, because this is being televised now because people are losing interest. She also performs at one point because she's a professional musician on stage in what appears to be a country and western outfit. So she does a lot of singing and Rachel's egg is very, very good at that. She is catnip rather than catniss. See what I did there.

I can't let him in. For the television, thank you very much for the television audience. And hopefully can reinvigorate their interest in the games. Here's a clip. I am honored to introduce to you the creator of the Hunger Games themselves. Dean Casca High Bottom.

Oh, hmm. Select students, faculty, and of course Dr. Gal. I have summoned you all here today for the 10th annual reaping ceremony in which we choose two children from each district to throw into the capital arena to fight to the death of the Hunger Games. Peter Dinklage as Dean Highbottom, inventor of the Hunger Games, Violet Davis. Dean Highbottom. Yes. Well, I didn't write it. I'm just reviewing it. All right. And they said the name in the... Dean Cast... I know, I wrote it down.

Dean Cast the Highbottom. And then Violet Davis as headgame maker, Dr. Gull. Film also features Jason Schwarzman as Lucretius Lucky Flickerman, who was this oliaginous TV presenter with a big quiff. I love it. I love a TV presenter with a big quiff who is going to present the Hunger Games. So the film keeps returning to the question of what are the Hunger Games for, meaning that the the original Hunger Games series owed a lot to Battle Royale. I mean, I know that

there's a question about, you know, how much his encounters was aware of it, but that in terms of lineage, Battle Royale is a kind of predecessor to Hunger Games. And it's quite amazing how brutal the first Hunger Games was when we consider that it's basically to YA story. This owes, I think, a way to your debt to Rollable. Rollable, which is based on a short story called Rollable Murder, in which the whole thing about it is, there's a future society in which they have murderous games. And the murderous games are there, yes,

to satisfy the bloodlust, because in the not-too-distant future wars will no longer exist, but there will be rollable. But also, because the games are there to demonstrate that without a huge autocratic, tyrannical control of society, we are all basically bestial and there is no point. There is a big speech in rollable about. It's to demonstrate that individual endeavor is nothing. And here, the whole thing, what's the point of the Hunger Games, it's to show us that we are just all one heartbeat away from being brutal monsters, that's why we need to be led by propaganda.

But precisely propaganda. Also, of course, this has the post-Twilight conflicted romance, which is a standard feature of all dystopian YA. And actually, I think it is always important to acknowledge just how significant Twilight was in giving, and Twilight isn't dystopian, Twilight is vampire, but it kind of gave birth to that huge wave of dystopian YA fiction

that then made big hit movies. Now, I was, so there's a kind of, there's a love across the barricades vibe going on in the middle of the plot. I was a big fan of the first Hunger Games movie. I remember seeing it in America, and I remember being really amazed by how full on it is. I mean, particularly the the CodacoPierre sequence at the beginning. Remember when the battle begins? I'm also a big fan of Rachel

Zegler. I think she's terrific. I think she's a real star. I have to say that this left me rather underwhelmed. It didn't have the urgency of the first film. I do think the Hunger Games series kind of petered out. They sort of, you know, the subsequent movie, they became very repetitious. Yeah, they became very repetitious and they also lost that, I mean, the urgency is the word about the first one. There was something about it that was like, this is really edgy stuff. By the time we got to the end of it, it just felt like, so I didn't feel like I needed a new Hunger Games story in my life, and I certainly didn't feel like I needed this particular prequel. There are some decent set pieces. Peter Dinklage is terrific, but then, you know, we heard him

there being very, very sinister. Yeah, but also World War weary, also kind of fed up, also sort of like, you know, you know, there is a lot of hair and makeup getting in the way of the grungy dystopian future. And I suppose that kind of bothered me a little bit because I never believed in the grungy dystopian future. It just, I thought there was, you know, just a lot of makeup. And, and around, you know, it's getting on for 160 minutes. It all runs its course at great length. So, I think it ended up being balanced somewhere between being ominously potentus, rather silly,

and also sort of tying itself up in knots in the way that prequels do, in order to set up things that we already know are going to happen, but we have to kind of do. So it's not terrible and I, you know, I think people will enjoy it and I've some of the reviews have been very positive. I, I felt like I don't, I didn't need to have this story told to me. Although there are certain things in it that are particularly Rachel Zegler, I did find it like, okay, can we just get to the end of it now? And I don't feel like I need another one.

I mean, I didn't feel like I needed another one for a win-in. There might be another one, I imagine. Do you think? Well, not if judge accordingly. So hunger games, both SAS, that's what we're talking about. We're calling it okay. Okay, fun. Still to come on this year podcast reviews of what we got the top 10 in which I will do Marvel's which we didn't do last week because it hadn't been screened in time. A soft burn, which is a separate spot to where I'm

more familiar last week and made assemble with our very special guest, who is Todd Haines. Now a new feature called Wise Wise Words. Okay, I didn't know about this. Mark and I in alternating weeks have to guess the artist and song during the break. Oh, okay. So we'll be back before you can say,

I don't want to see a ghost. It's a sight that I fear most. I'd rather have a piece of toast and watch the evening news. Mark will have worked it out in a moment. Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayo. I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of The Crown and The Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic

Royal Drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the Show, Edith Bowman hosts this one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns Queen Elizabeth in Melda Staunton. Other guests on the new series include the Crowns research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as Voice Coach William Connaker and propsmaster

Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selim Dor, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth Tabicki. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching the Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the Crown, the official podcast, first on November 16th. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

Happy Nord Christmas. Protect yourself while Christmas shopping online and access all the Christmas films from around the globe. Plus, when you shop online, you'll have to give websites your card details and other sensitive data like your personal addresses. Those websites should already have their own encryption built into their payment systems, but to be on the safe side, you can use a VPN to ensure that all data coming to and from your device is encrypted. Even if you're using an unsafe Wi-Fi, you'll still be able to shop securely with a VPN.

And you can access Christmas films only available overseas by using streaming services not available in the UK. To take our huge discount off your NordVPN plan, go to nordvpn.com slash take. Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee,

the link is in the podcast episode description box. I don't want to see a ghost, it's a site that I fear most. I'd rather have a piece of toast and watch the evening news inspirational words by. I have no idea, the only, I have no idea is what's gonna be've got no idea is what's going to be the regular feature. Yeah, the only pop song I think of with toast is was toast by toast and the vocals were by Paul Young. That is correct. Anyway, this week's wise wise words feature which is

a surprise to everybody is Desiree and her magnum opus Life. There you go. It marks turn next week. life. There you go. It marks turn next week. An email from Michelle Antoine in Inyes, PhD in Philosophy, Instructure of Philosophy at Capillano University, North Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. So bear in mind that. Okay, that's the sign off. Michelle Antoine, in yes, PhD in philosophy. Okay. You might be expecting a wise... Wise word. Yeah. Dear how to have sex and killer bottom starts first. On the subject of in-apped film titles, I'd like to draw your attention to Jurassic Park,

which only features two Jurassic dinosaurs, brachiosaurus and Dylophosaurus. All the others are on loan from the Cretaceous Park. Yours, Michelle Antoine in yes. Now that is a class email. I don't remember anyone criticizing the movie for having inappropriate dinosaur content. You know there's this brilliant thing in the moment. He's not Jurassic. In America, the new speaker of the house, Mike Johnson, who's an idiot. Mike Johnson was a supporter of this theme park, which is a progressive creationist theme park based on Noah's Ark. The difference is they have dinosaurs on the Ark. Because, you know, that solves that problem. Dimastron Commander is Lockhead here, first time emailer, medium term listener, VanGardeister,

Vicktricks Ludoorm under 12s. In line with the recent giggle over the coalescent, how to have sex bottoms, I was reminded of when I used to live in the golfing town of St Andrews. In the 1990s, the only cinema had just two screens, the big Yinn and the Wii Yinn, and so only advertised two films at any given time. At this given time, there was a very, very prestigious and important golf tournament on, which brought Americans in their droves to the cobbly streets to crewn delightedly at the cuteness and the oldness and the sheer gold darn awesomeness of it all. Unfortunately, at that time, the two films showing were a blockbusting second

World War drama starring Ben Affleck and a high school rom-com based loosely on a mid-summer night stream. Imagine the confusion and dismay when we looked up to see our local cinema in big letters telling our American friends Pearl Harbor get over it. Which is class. A quick diversion to the nearest watering hole was in order. A big shout out to Kelly Sam and Marcia for such jolly good sports. Well, thanks to you and simply marvellous production team for all the Whitted Damon. Hello to Jason Sanjeev and Dan with Diaries, this and up with Umlauts. Pearl Harbor get over it. I mean, fantastic. I did tell you that the bus that I used to get to school used to go past a cinema

near Elstree called the Studio 70. And when you when the bus went past on a Monday morning, for many weeks, letters were disappearing from the titles of the film. Yes. And then there was a week in which they started reappearing. And the first week they reappeared the Butts School Bus to the delight of every single child on that bus, drove past a massive billboard for the Beatles film, I want to hold your rear.

Ha ha ha ha. The controversial follow-up. A box of his top 10. First of all, the streamers, the automatic first of all. I love the automatic, I think it's really wonderful. And if you get a chance, listen to the Mel Brooks song. There was nothing like the coffee at the automatic, which is now on Spotify and also you can hear on Scarlett Radio, my fabulous music show.

Anne Marie says, an automatic feature in the 1962 film, that touch of mink with Doris Gray and Carrie Grant. In one scene, when an unsuspecting gig young opens the little door, instead of lemon meringue pie, an arm comes out and bonks him in the face, case of mistake and identity, I fear not as a sweet. Deer top and bottom, Alex in Fleet in Hampshire,

just finished watching season two of Loki. And notice that the lunch area at the TVA, the main setting for the story, is called the Automata. And the food, key lime pies, dispensed from little windowed boxes as described by the doctor. Also, this time of restaurants still exists in the Netherlands and it's called Fibo.

No. Or be it significantly less fancy, F-E-B-O. Anyway, down with counter protestors and hate marchers, can I just say, I know why everyone called them counter protestors because that's what the Met called them, but actually what they were was the far right hand fascists. And they weren't counter protestors,

saying, calling them counter protestors seemed a little bit fascist, merely maled. Deer Dorothe and Laura Lyme says, Hannah Wildman. Listening to one of the reviews this week, I realized that I had never actually understood the following lyric from Diamonds are a girl's best friend in one of my favorite movies, gentlemen, prefer blondes, a kiss may of that, but anyway, she says, second time emailer, I was thrilled to hear you share my Christmas movie memory of watching it to wonderful life back in the day on the historic Walter Doe cinema screen at Liverpool's

Philharmonic Hall, apparently one of the last of these screens which rise up from the stage. Yeah, amazing. Thanks for all the wonderful reviews, the interviews and the bitterings, because that's what we do. And Hannah is now living in Virginia. Hannah, thank you very much indeed. So into the 10, at 10, the exorcist believer.

Thank you very much. On the wire. Number nine, in the UK, the greatest capable. I found it very, very charming. And as I said, Glendor Jackson reminded me of my mom, which just fits into another thing we were talking about in the car on the way here, which is that movies give to you what you bring to them. Uh, UK's number eight, number three in the States, Taylor Swift, the era's tour.

We are officially Swifties, apparently. We are, definitely. UK number seven, number 10 in America is Paw Patrol, the mighty movie. Or, as the misheard title was by a listener, Paw Patrol, the Paw Patrols. The Paw Patrols, they're trolls, but they don't have any money to hold you movie. as the misheard title was by a listener, pauper troll. The pauper trolls? The pauper trolls. They're trolls, but they don't have any money. To hold you movie.

Lee Monksy Manchester on the movie that's at number six here. Dream scenario. Dream scenario. Dream scenario features yet another wonderfully tortured turn from Nicholas Cage, not Cave, whose latest creation, a nebish professor, deserves recognition as one of his finest portrayals, alongside those delivered in badly tenant, leaving Las Vegas, adaptation and pig. The film itself would

seem to represent an Alexander Paynesk repost, not only to the worst ever overindeltures of cancel culture, but also to the appalling narcissism, the likes of Harvey Weinstein and Alex Jones amongst far too many others are routinely guilty of exhibiting whenever they're offered the chance to offer even a hint of contrition for their myriad instances of bad behavior. The very best scene in the film involves cage is character, turning a watershed opportunity to attone into a shamefully delirious and ostentatious exercise in self-excal patient, a moment that would surely have offered a much better and impactful means of concluding an admirably pithy condemnation, very long sentence, of reactionary media and the toll it takes on ordinary people and the current fizzing off into the ether.

Can I respond? Yes. Yes. Thank you very much. Dave in Icona, West London, Nicholas Cage's best film for a while. Not up there with the likes of Pig or Bad lieutenant for me, but still upper middle tier cage in a weird, meanable performance the likes of which Nick excels at. I'd like to think I'm well qualified to make such a judgment. And during lockdown, instead of baking bread or playing with the kids, I

decided to watch every single Nicholas Cage film. And I mean every single one. A film on the Ramones where Cage appears in archive news footage delivering a eulogy of Johnny Ramones funeral, seen it. A two hour Roman Polansky documentary where Nick pops up in a three second cutaway, applauding as Polansky picks up a Noska. Yep. Not sure why I undertook such a task, especially when I had to endure my wife's size of exasperation when she walked in on me watching G-Force, the one where Cage plays an evil hamster, where she quite fairly pointed out that I could have at least watched it with the children. But at his best, Nicholas Cage is just so fun to watch and who else can deliver such gloriously committed performances in the likes of the rock adaptation, vampires,

kiss, Mandy, mom and dad, raising Arizona and wild at heart whilst combining with that rolls in shed loads of unadulterated, straight to video tat, a word of warning, don't watch erotic thriller Zandaly. Yes, you. With enough Zandaly is covered in the Good Lady Presser, her indoors is book The Erotic Thriller in contemporary cinema. Yes, and it doesn't come out of it well. Number five, here number 16 in the States Anatomy of a Fall. I love this. This is one of my favorite out of it well. Number five, here, number 16 in the States, anatomy of a fall. I love this. This is one of my favorite films of the year.

It has an amazing performance by Sondra Hula. It's a film that has your brain firing on all cylinders all the way through. There is a death at the beginning and the rest of the film is, how did that death happen? And the will judge accordingly find that Sandra Hullar's character was responsible or not and it's all about what our own preconceptions are and what we bring to table.

It's just wonderful. It's one-the-palm door deservedly so, it's magnificent. Samuel Salzer, Applied Behavioral Scientist in Stockholm. I recently had the pleasure of watching Anatomy of a Fall at the Charming Victoria Cinema in Stockholm. While I share Mark's high praise for the film, there was a particular element that I found distracting and concerning. As a behavioral scientist, I am acutely aware of the fallibility of human memory, especially in the context of recounting events. The film's significant reliance on a child's testimony as a key plot point

seemed deeply problematic to me. Research in my field consistently highlights the unreliability of testimony. Contrary to popular belief, memory is not a static recording played over and over. It's more like a tape that's constantly being re-recorded over. With each act of remembrance, with each act of remembrance, we effectively create a new version of the event. It's a phenomenon that our better halves can often help us painfully realise what we thought happened wasn't quite so. This aspect of the film coupled with my very limited knowledge of the Swiss judicial system led me to broader contemplation.

Is this still a thing? Does such reliance on child testimony reflect reality in current legal practices? Or was it merely an effective plot device for the film? I'd be interested to know if you or any other listeners had similar questions and concerns while switching. Well, can I answer not in terms of swiss-digality about which I don't know anything, but in terms of the film,

the unreliability of the child's testimony is one of the key points. The child believes that they heard low voices, not raised voices from outside the house. The child absolutely remembers that. And then, when asked to walk through the actions of the day, the child discovers that that is what everyone discovers, that it's not possible. And the child then has to accept that their memory of what happened isn't right, and they then create a new memory in which what they actually heard was voices from inside the house. And it's a key plot point in the film that memory is unreliable.

In fact, there is also a question about, there is a recording that becomes dramatized at one point. And the question is, are we seeing what happened or are we seeing an imagined version of a voice recording? So I think the film does address those things. And I don't have the same concerns about the film. Interesting line from Samuel when he says, with each act of remembrance,

we effectively create a new version of the event. Yes, that is right. But I do, I believe that the film does address that. Number four here, number two in the states, five nights at Freddy's. Has done much better than I expected. Clearly, I was wrong about it. Number three here, killers of the Flamune. Again, an astonishing turnout for a film, which has the running time that it does, and which therefore, that's relevant because it means that it limits

the amount of screenings that you can get in in any one evening. So it's really done well. And trolls band together is it number two, and it's exactly what it says on the tin. Now, the US and the UK number one is the Marvels. And as Mark has suggested, we didn't get to it last week because they did the preview screening on Wednesday morning, which is when we record the podcast. It was literally physically impossible to see it. So I now, I paid to concede.

So 33rd film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, yes, really sequel to Captain Marvel, also a continuation of the TV series, Ms. Marvel, which I haven't seen, sequel to Captain Marvel, also a continuation of the TV series, Ms. Marvel, which I haven't seen, and that may be crucially important. Co-written and directed by Nick DeCosta, who did a great job of the Candyman reboot in 2021, it has opened at number one, and in the US, it's at least, it's the best achieved opening figure for a black female director's film. But it is also the lowest opening weekend total ever for an MCU film.

So good and bad. Now, there's been a lot of stuff on the internet about, oh, the film's flop. It's done this down the other Stephen King who we refer to every week on this show. Took to the social media to say the following. I don't go to MCU movies, I don't care for them, but I find this barely masked gloating over the low box office for the Marvel's very unpleasant, why gloat over failure, to which he subsequently added

some of the rejection of the Marvel's maybe adolescent fanboy hate, you know, Yuck, girls, okay?. So good for him. Yeah. As always, Brelarson of whom I'm a fan is back as Carol Danvers, okay, Captain Marvel, her destruction of the supreme intelligence has led to a devastation on Hala, earning her the nickname a nilator. Jonathan Parris is Monica Rambo, who used to look up to Danvers as a child now is her own person. Mambalani is Carmela, who is a teenager with powers.

She's from New Jersey. She fashions her own superhero alter ego, and they're all brought together via some magical bangles, which see them swapping realities and identities thanks to sort of worm-holy stuff. Here is a clip, the clip doesn't have much dialogue in it, but it kind of gives you a sense of the film. Well, Brie Lasse is very good at throwing people through the roof. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

We conclude from that. So look, as you heard probably when I was doing that, the plots and obses think, I'm struggling because I haven't seen the TV show. I've seen all the Marvel movies because it's my job. I had no idea what was going on. I absolutely get Stephen King's point about Yuck Girls and I would love to be able to tell you that I saw the movie and thought it was great because there were so many things that looks like I would like it. I like all the characters, I had no idea what they were doing.

I like what I saw as being Bollywood influences, everything but the kitchen sink, you know musical stuff, but I felt I'd much rather be watching a Bollywood movie than a superhero film which to my opinion kept nodding towards Bollywood. But most importantly, I didn't understand anything because I did not care at all. It feels like if you thought Hunger Games was ringing blood out of a stone and a franchise, which has, you know, flogging a dead horse, this really felt infinitely worse. It's, it's a, I found it to be a mess and a shoddy mess. Some of the effects are unbelievably

shunky. There's a couple of flying sequences which reminded me of the Superman from my childhood for which the tagline was, you'll believe a man can fly it and those flying effects were better than some of the flying effects in this. It's admirably short, it's one of the shortest Marvel movies but it felt long. Now, I'm sure there will be some emails from people who they like it, the brightness and the levity of tone and all that stuff. I thought it was a car crash of a film and I don't take any pleasure in saying that. I wish I liked it more, but I just had no idea what was going on because I didn't care. Steve Brindle says no idea what was going on because I didn't care. Steve Brindle says no idea what was going on.

And when I did, yeah. Oh, well there we go. And when I did, I wished I didn't, as it was nonsense. However, it had so much good heart. It had so much heart and good intentions. I couldn't stop smiling, laughing and just loving being immersed in an overwhelmingly positive experience. Fair enough.

John Stratton from Northampton with a headache. It's 4.24 AM. I've woken up in a confused and annoyed mood after watching the marvels at my local odiumplex. It should have been great. I'm a pretty loyal marvel studio devotee, but I also have sometimes most elusive of things known as a life. I haven't watched all the marvel movies, all the Disney plus series and all the miniseries that clearly you need to to have watched to understand any of these movies now. Clearly, Marvel have decided these movies don't need explaining or backstories.

And if you're not 100% up to date, well, tough. I left needing to read Wikipedia some of those previous Marvel series and movies to try and piece it all together. And to be honest, I gave it up. Thank you, John. I think we're on the… But like I said, if anyone sees it and takes delight in the color and the stuff, hooray. I don't take any pleasure in not having found any of it interesting. Todd Haines coming up in a moment.

This episode is brought to you by Mubi, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From my comic directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karri's Mackey film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize it can, that's in cinemas at the moment. And if you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karri's Mackey, you can go to Mooby the streaming service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human.

They are also going to be theatrically releasing In January Priscilla, which is a new Sophia Coppola film, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You can try Mooby Free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I dot com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Enjoy the classic taste of the holidays at Tim's with the new non-alcoholic Bailey's flavored holiday menu. Whether you're hanging holiday lights or driving up to your folks, you can enjoy your Tim's and Bailey's anytime, anywhere at participating restaurants in Canada. Very.

They're very beloved part of this community. I can see that. So... What is it you love most about Gracie? She always knows what she wants. She's on a polydetic. That's a clip from May December. I'm delighted to say I've been joined by Todd Haynes, Hello, Todd, how are you, sir?

It's Simon, I'm doing well. Fabulous bowl of flowers you have next year, I have to say. That's very nice. So, first of all, how do you get involved in May December? Because I think that's interesting. It is, the script had been circulating a bit, the script by Sammy Birch, a new screenwriter, an incredibly gifted young woman,

and my producing partner is that killer films had even read this script. But it eventually made its way to Natalie Portman's producing team. And she was in Australia working during the height of COVID But it eventually made its way to Natalie Portman's producing team in And she was in Australia working during the height of COVID at this Point and and actually fully working and we were completely shut down the United States And she sent me the script to read and I was a lot of stuff was circulating during that time because no one none of us knew when we'd be back to work

But this script really cut through and made a tremendous impression on me. And I knew I was extremely interested in following up with it and starting to talk to Natalie about the project. We didn't know when it would happen because everything was stopped. I had other things I was developing. She was in Australia, working on stuff. And we didn't know who would play the other roles. But the script itself and the kind of sense of its confidence in conveying

things that were very disquieting that kept you questioning your own moral standing about the issues involved was so remarkable. And it had humor in it. And it had almost an investigative journalism aspect to it because it was about an actress coming to into this family's lives 20 years after a tabloid scandal. Maybe it's good time then for you to tell us the story that you were intrigued about

when you read the script, just out and where we are with this. What I loved about it was that it circulated around a tabloid story from the past. And the story that in the United States, at least, there stirs up some recollections of an actual tabloid event that occurred in the 1990s. But Sammy had already fictionalized it and what she did almost more interestingly is she set the whole story 20 years later. And so really what it's about is an actor coming to town who wants to play the role of the

woman at the center of the scandal. So she's there to get to know who this woman is, what really happened, how it happened, and figure out how she's gonna portray this character. And so Natalie Portman's role is the actor Elizabeth, who is around 36 years old. The woman she's investigating and studying is Julianne Moore, who's around 5960 at this time in her life. But when Julianne's character Gracie was 36 years old, she began an affair with a 13 year old boy who is now 36 years old.

And so this is the web that we find Elizabeth walking into. So in the past, she has gone to prison for this. She has. I mean, as far as the lore is concerned, are we talking about rape? That was the crime that, in the real real case that is probably the one that comes most to mind when people in the States see it, Mary Kale turn out, she was charged with child rape. And that is the story that you are working with many years later. Is it 2015? You're setting this story in? It is 2015. What is the reason I just wanted to remove it ever so the the

ridgel script was written for present day written 2019 or something. And also set in Camden, Maine, not set in Savannah, Georgia, where we shot where we shot the film and set the film. I chose to move it back to 2015, just to remove it to the sort of pre-Trump era to kind of get out of the crosshairs of this sort of over-determined partisanship that I didn't want to be a distraction, particularly having set the film in the South in Georgia. I just didn't want anybody to be wondering about the political allegiances to these particular characters. So the boy who was suggested as now a man,

he is Joe played by Charles Melton. How? I mean, so you have these extraordinary Oscar-winning actors in your leads. How difficult was it to find the right Joe? I mean, we see a version of that, a fictionalized version of that in your film, of course, but finding Charles Melton was that was that difficult? It was not as difficult as I could have imagined it being because of Charles Audition, the audition that he gave us. I work with Laura Rosenthal, my casting director, many, many years, and there are many times on film after film that a very specific and challenging

kind of character has to be found, upon which the entire film rests and the ability for the film to really work might rest. And that was true for this role of Joe. So we put up the word for Korean American actors to send in tapes and sent outside for them to read certain scenes from the film. Charles Milton is known in the United States best for a show Riverdale. That's a popular show on the CW channel. I'd watched a second of it when it first aired the first season, but he hadn't entered the show yet. So I had never seen Charles's work before. I looked at a picture of Charles and I was like, oh, no, no, no, this isn't gonna work. This guy is like, he looks like a model, so insanely glamorously handsome. But what he did in that tape was so astonishing

and so different from how I had sort of heard the character of Joe in my head, I kept going back to it and Laura did the same thing and then we had him read with Julianne Moore. She was like, she didn't want to tip the scales, but there was no question that this actor, this man understood things about the character of Joe that went beyond things I had at that point had seen. Why would Julianne Moore's character and Charles Mellon's character as a

couple, why would they want their story turned into a movie. Have they had enough of the publicity? I think as they sort of say to each other in the course of the film, remind each other in the course of the film that this was a way to finally tell her story correctly, sensitively with more integrity than the kind of schlocky TV movie. We get a little snippet view of in the film.

We just sense that it's been so distorted and so scandalized and so blown up by the media and that she's a well-known and respected sort of television actress. You know, for Elizabeth, we sense that this is an opportunity for her to do something of more serious value than she's been seen as an actor to raise the sort of caliber of her reputation. And so she's very serious about the research that she's undertaking. And she's obviously has her own ambitions for that.

And I think that everybody keeps nodding their heads sort of benignly to this idea of telling the truth, finding the truth, you know, like we all know what that is. And it's an agreed upon consensus position in how we tell stories. Can you give us a few words about the score, Todd, because you said that the score is key, beautiful music running through your movie, just explain why it's so important to find the Michael Lecron music. The score is more than a beautiful music. Almost everything Michelle Lecron has that I've ever heard of his compositions would

qualify as beautiful music. I've never heard anything like the score from him or anybody else. The score comes originally from a film called The Go Between from 1971 at Joseph Losey Film with Julie Christie and Alan Bates, amazing film. But a film that had sort of fallen out of circulation, it did not show up on streaming or classic movie channels. And suddenly last year it appeared

on the Turner Classic Movie channel. And I watched it and I was astonished by that it's a fantastic film, but the score blew me away and made me feel like this was the best example I could find on the way of framing this story in such a way that put the viewer into an active state of interpretation while watching the film, which is how I felt when I read first read the script put the viewer into an active state of interpretation

while watching the film, which is how I felt when I read first read the script and I wanted to think in ways as the director of the film to extend that experience to the viewer. But in a way that was kind of delicious and dark and full of expect to expectations and anxiety. Did you play it on set? What that music did. And in the go-between, but also in May, December.

Did you play it on set? We played the music throughout the entire making of the, I've never done this before in a film. We made this film with a low budget in 23 days of shooting, probably the shortest schedule I've ever had as a director. And it was necessary for everybody involved. My creative department heads, the actors, everybody who was there, to all be in the same mental space, creative space. And so I just decided early on, I'm going to share everything with everybody.

Yeah. And it's going to be this open, reciprocal atmosphere on set. There's one scene that I want to mention, it's kind of tricky because overwhelmingly, people listening to this won't have seen your film yet, although they will be. Can you just give us a few words on the letter scene, which is one of those scenes, which I think people will be talking about when they come out of the cinema, and they'll be talking about for many years. Just can you set that up obviously without spoiling anything, but it's an incredible scene you have there.

I would agree with you. It comes toward the end of the film, and it's a sort of the pathiosis moment you might say for the character of Elizabeth, where in her process of trying to embody Gracie and study this character, she's going to play in a movie. She's finally handed a letter that Joe had hung on to when he was supposed to destroy all evidence of exchanges between them and he kept this one letter. And so he gives it to her toward the end of the film and she performs it toward the end of the of our film. And it's the sort of summation of her incorporating or understanding how to portray Gracie that we see.

And it set up this style that I used throughout the film, which is direct address to the lens. The scene when I first read it in the script is the one scene that made me know I had to make this film because it reminded me of a scene from a Bergman film, Winter Light that I saw in high school, where Ingrid Thulin delivers a letter to the priest character, undercided love letter to the central character, a priest in a neutral medium shot with a neutral blank gray wall behind her.

And she speaks directly to the lens. And it was riveting. Of course, that's a great idea. Cinematically, the simplicity, the severity of that kind of camera angle. But it doesn't work without an astonishing actor. And that's what occurred in Winterlight. And I will humbly say that that

is what occurs in May, December. I think you're right. I think everyone will agree with that. Todd Haynes, a pleasure to spend some time with you. So thank you very much. And if you're talking to us. Thanks. I'm in great to see you. It was great. I had never interviewed Todd Haynes before. I know you always said how great he is. And what I hope, we've always talked to directors over the years we've been doing this. Directors are always an important part of the show. Obviously, we also mainly speak to actors. We haven't been able to do that again in the main

because of the strike, which is now settled. But I hope we always get to hear directors like Todd Haines because he can speak across the whole piece. Julia Morewood, I'm sure given a great interview because she's Julia Morewood. But she wouldn't have been able to talk about the whole thing in the way that this director. But also it was a great interview

because it got to the heart of what the film is about and you can see, if you're just listening to that, there's also a video of it. You can see Todd Haines is delight in being asked questions that are actually about what the film is about, as opposed to being asked questions that are apparently what the film is about. He smiles about the music and he smiles about it. And also at the end, it's very difficult to talk about that scene. I wasn't sure whether to ask him because it is, I think it is the end. It's the end of the film. But I think he did it in a way

that isn't spoiling you from it. Exactly. Nothing nothing was sport at all. So for me, when you say Todd Haynes, the first thing I think of is superstar, which is the Karen Carpenter story told with animated Barbie dolls, and I first interviewed him for Poisony, then went on to make things like Velvet Gold Mine, far from heaven, Carol. I mean, one of my favourite directors, scripted for this by Birch, Story by Her and Alex Mechanic, set, as you say, 2015, with producer Natalie Portman because of her production company. He's actress Elizabeth, who was gone

to spend time with Julianne Moore's Gracie. Of course, Todd Haynes worked with Julianne Moore on Safe, which was kind of her big breakthrough role, about a woman with total allergy syndrome. It's a magnificent film. So they've kind of been together for a long time. 20 years ago, Gracie hadn't affair with the teenager Joe played by here now by Charles Melton, now 20 years later, so now an adult to whom she is now married with a family. She had his child whilst in prison is what we learn from that. Sorry. And the story is inspired, again,

as Todd Haines said, by a real-life new story from some time ago, American Vittorno, which you can look up if you want to. So what happens is Elizabeth starts to get undergracy skin. It was interesting in that Haines kind of compares the research that she does as an actress to like an active investigative journalism. She starts to imitate her mannerism. She asks her friends about her. She starts to try to move herself in the same way she does. And she also starts to develop a relationship with Joe because she's kind of imitating the, you know, the life of the character that she's playing. So there's a hint here of the assassination of Jesse James, in which Jesse James says,

but played by Brad Pitt, says to the person who ends up being his murderer, and I think that is significant. I don't know whether you want to be with me or you want to be me, I mean, a version of that. So it's a thing about taking on somebody else's persona, and what you will then do with it, because a number of her friends say, what are you going to do? I mean, she's important to us, you know, and you are handing over the story. We spoke about the journalist and the murder of just recently, that idea that you hand your story over to somebody. There was a phrase that you used last week. I was talking about repeating history and you said, oh, there's a famous phrase, isn't it? History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes. It's a lovely phrase. I think the two performances

here of Natalie Portman and Julianne Moore, they rhyme. There's a thing about the way they start to kind of vibrate together, which is marvelous. I also think that Natalie Portman is doing performance in the same way that she was doing performance in Jackie, you know, playing a rock. So, see an actress playing a role, playing a role, which actually feeds into that final scene that you're talking about, which is she's so smart, because it's about performance. The music you're absolutely right about, and Marcelo Zavos is sort of doing Michelle Grones go between and that phrase that Tom, that Todd Haynes

used is that the music puts the viewer into an active state of interpretation. I didn't know that they had played the music on set. That's amazing. But also because the music is da da da da da da da da da da it's got a kind of it's a thriller sound to it. There's something edgy and something it's the you know the semi tones it's kind of angular but it's also got this romance and very much like what happens with an after-mever fall. What the film is doing is saying how do you feel about these characters? How do you feel about what's happened? Joe is a grown-up and he seems happy, at least at the beginning of the film. We see that in a long

shot, the shot of them, you know, cuddling and talking, but he has lost his childhood and his childhood was stolen from him by somebody of whom we hear in that thing says she always knows what she wants, she always knows what she wants, she's unapologetic. In fact, and she's a child rapist. Her argument is you started it. You know, when they discuss it, she says, you know, we know what the dynamic is, but exactly as you say, she's a child rapist.

That's what happened. He was underage, she wasn't. And during the course of the drama, it does a really smart job of because the characters that we're now seeing are their adults. But Joe has lost something that he's coming to recognize during the course of this interrogation procedure. And yet the film is so deaf in its footing that you know you're sympathetic and you're engaged and then every now and then you do this

step back thing hang on, hang on, how are we at this point? You also said people will discuss that scene afterwards. I think this is a movie that you will come out of immediately needs to be discussed but it It immediately needs to be discussed, but it also immediately needs a period of silence. It needs a period to just let it sit for a while. So, I mean, I thought it was terrific because I felt my brain was engaged,

all the way through. I love the performances. I love the performances. I love the use of the music. And when you consider how spiky that subject is, and also the fact is, May December is such an ironic title, because that's the phrase that is usually used for a romance of an old man and a young woman, you know, I didn't know that. Yeah, May December romance means, you know, older partner, but usually if it's referred to in a, it's I agree with all of that. I did. And a, it's, I, my, I agree, I agree with all of that. I did. And I, well, my reservation is I am not, I'm still not 100% convinced that a couple who've gone through that in that relationship, which you just explained, where

she has gone to prison, um, would actually agree to have the whole thing unpicked. Again, even if they want to tell a different side of the story. They're inviting that into their lives. They must know, must bring this all up again, and highlight the original offense. And I know we have to get over that, because otherwise the film wouldn't exist. Sure, sure. I wasn't quite sure. Well, can I answer that partly, which is that I think that reference that we made with the journalist and the murder has turned up many times in our recent discussions. There is something about the kind of person who actually wants to have this story vindicated in fact because that that that importance character, she's a television actor and what she's saying is, look, I'll do it properly. Someone's going to

do this and it's either it's either me doing it in this way or you can see the sort of seduction of Julia Moore's character, by Natalie Portman, who everyone, you know, they will love the TV show that she was in. You know, I love that series, you know. So it's kind of, there's an element of threat, which is if I don't do this, somebody else will do it

and they'll do it wrong. Anyway, May, December could be in Mark's films of the year. I think it's very... ...for a neviner. Adds in a minute, Mark, but first of all, never mind films of the year. How about some of the jokes of the year? Yes, yes. It is our laugh to live. Take it away.

Hey, Mark. I took the fam out for a slap-up meal on Friday. A fam out? Yeah, after the old radio show. Not a great experience, Hestia. I arrived early at the swanky western restaurant. Do you mind waiting for a bit, Simon Mayo? Asked the matredee, not at all aeroplane. Good, he said, can you take these drinks to table 15?

Uh-oh! I said, absolutely not, how rude. Anyway, I waited at the bar. Rather de-shevelled man walked in, said to the barman, Quick, give me a treble of your finest single malt before it gets started. Before what gets started says the barman. Never mind, just give me that single malt, make it quick. Sounded urgent so the barman gave him his drinks.

Custom and noxit back and says another treble quick before it gets started. Barman gives him another single mort. When the man asks for a third one, the host says, hold on, chummy, when are you gonna pay me for these? Oh, here we go, he says. It starts.

It starts. It starts. It starts. It starts. I guess it was good. That was good, that was good. Some good news finally, Mark. I have done some Christmas shopping.

I bought the good lady, Saram sister indoors, one of those fancy, plus sized American fridges. I can't wait to see a little face light up when she opens it. Hehehe. Didn't finish with the strongest one, though.

I love you. Back after this, unless you're a Vanguardista, in which case we have just one question, when were baby carrots invented? Hmm. Scr scratchy bird. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain ol' ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders no, but chicken tenders yes, because those are groceries,, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats, no. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age.

Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See out for details. Get holiday ready at Real Canadian Superstore. Will you find more legendary ways to save than any other major grocery? Until December 13th, you'll get a free PC turkey when you spend $300 or more. That's right, free! Only at your Super Holiday Store. Conditions apply to fly for details.

So, I know this isn't the dramatic sense of the Gillatin question from last year. In fact, we'll be returning to the guillotine when we get to talk about Napoleon. When were baby carrots invented? Before they grew up into adult carrots, the answer is 1986. Really? Baby carrots are actually millennials. And they're not actually baby carrots. They're just chopped up normal carrots. are actually millennials and they're not actually baby carrots. They're just chopped up normal carrots.

Have first farmer, farmer, Mike Urasek used a potato peeler, which didn't quite work because the process was too laborious. Then he bought an industrial green bean cutter and the machine cut the carrots into uniform two-inch pieces, the standard baby carrot size that still persists. Okay. I, who knew? So we're going to talk to Wacken Phoenix, we're going to talk Napoleon, our next one. That's pretty cool. Yes, and it does start with agility. And it just

makes you think, we need to, you know, there is an interesting, why did the French keep the agility for so long? And you said the last French guillotine was in 1977. Yeah. The same year as Star Wars. I don't know. Okay. The last public we just heard in our heads. The last public guillotine was 1939. 1939. And Christopher Lee was in the audience.

But still. I just don't know where to go from there. You're going to see Star Wars, the French are still guillotine-y people. Yeah. Estonishing. people. Yeah, astonishing. Anyway, astonishing. And genuinely shocking. An email from Chris, after he enchaps, long-termness, the first time he met,

at once listened to an email read out by Sanji about me running that London marathon whilst I was actually running the marathon. Anyway, that's a very nice thing. So without wanting to bother you too much and praise-redacted, I have a boon-ask of you. A boon? Yes, and I did check this up.

A boon is either a blessing or a favor sort. Oh. So he is asking for a favor. Okay, I only know that it was quite a boon meaning that. Exactly, that's it. I would have said you're a real boon to the show. Yeah, exactly. But it also means a failing show.

Do you think I'm a boon to the show? Or do you be a real ignorance? Absolutely. Every dead weight. I think we're both. So last week on the program, we were talking about Saltburne. Yes. What with Emerald Fennel being on the program and everything. And you can still listen to that.

And I think think is the video copy of that still around? Can people watch the great Emerald Fennel do that? I think that is true yes you can see that is anyway. Saltburn is out so it's time Mark told us about it. New film by Emerald Fennel who made a promising young woman and as you say, guest and last week's show like its predecessor it is a darkly satirical black comedy with shades of horror in rustic comedy. Yeah, that's right, that's the phrase it used, wasn't it? I would say that the one line thing would be Bride's Head Revisited meets Fall of the

House of Usher by the town to Mr Ripley. So Barry Keum. I did ask him a little bit. So Barry Keegan is all of a quick. I did a bit of a bit of a bit of a who would on social media was saying you got that wrong as in me saying it wrong. And actually, but if you go, and I felt like getting involved and then remembered that you never get involved.

Yeah. If you, if you googled something like Barry Keegan saying his own name, that's what it comes up as. And he, and that is him saying his name. Yes. So if you think it's different, bring it up with him. As I said, I asked him how you pronounce it. He said, well, technically it's Kyrgan. He said, but everyone, including me, says Kyrgan. Like Kyrgan. So there we go. Oliver Quick, new student at Oxford who does not fit in with the posh shows like Jacob a Lordy's Felix.

He shunned, he sneered at, because unlike them, he's from the north, he's from Mersey side. He's worked really hard to get into Oxford. He turns up wearing a shirt and tie when they're all wearing posh cats, you know, just like, this is something I've thrown on. And in his very first tutorial to which he turns up completely on time while his fellow student doesn't, his tutor is astonished that he's actually read the reading list. He's not meant to read it, it's just suggestive. He's read everything. He's read everything. He's read the whole reading list.

He longs to be part of the posh-os group As it is at the beginning, he's completely shunned by them because he's trying too hard. But he gets an in after Felix gets a puncture and he cycles by and he offers to take Felix's bike to let Felix have his bike. Felix kind of thinks he's a funny thing to pick up. And he's won over by tales of what a hard life Oliver has had. He's abusive father, he's alcoholic mother. And Felix who's sort of, you know, it's my new interesting friend, you know, how fabulous. Invites him back to his home, Saltburn, for, you know, for some of that. Here's a clip. I'm glad you're here, mate.

Right, I will, I will leave you to it. I just want to think, Mum has a furbie of beards and stubble, so I left a razor for you in the bathroom. Huh? Yeah, I don't know. She thinks it's unhygienic. It's something to do with her father. It's bonkers. I mean, I'm not even allowed to wear my stud when I'm here. Anything else I should know about? No, no, just be yourself. I love you. It's relaxed should know about? No, not just be yourself.

They'll love you. It's relaxed, I promise. We'll be in the library. Library. Yes, you're great. We'll be in the library. Library. So also there in the house, our Philix's mum and dad,

Elspeth and James, played by Rosamondon, called me Rebecca Pike, and Richard E. Grant. Don't. He's a sicker. Will you work with the Rebecca Pike? I know. Yeah. And me and on stage with me are both Kevin and Andrew and Donald. Sister Venetia, played by Al Saliba, and his cousin Farley, played by Archimit D. Quay,

who the family have taken under their wing for reasons which are explained. Also present is Portia Pamela, who is Kerry Mulligan, who of course was the star of promising young woman, who appears to have outstayed her welcome. At first, the family view Oliver as a kind of exotic order to go again. We see he's from the north. At one point, he says, we're going to live up where he's that. She's, I think it's in the sea. No. But he's from the north. And, you know, so he'll be played with and enjoyed for a while and then presumably later disposed off.

But gradually, as the drama progresses, it becomes clear that he is not quite as shy and retiring as he seems, that in fact, he has seen what he wants in the world. And he will do anything to sort of seduce his way into the family, person by person, and you know, worm his way into the heart of Saltburn. I mean, the very name Saltburn kind of tells you

something about the tone of the film because I think the tone of the film is, I haven't heard the word Saltburn before. So it's very arched. The performances are a serbic, I think, Pikes, Elspworth is brilliantly cracked. She has that kind of glint of madness in her eye that she showed in, well, if it was like gone girl, and she, you know, she does, she does smile in a way that says smile, I have

something very, very off kilter. They're all, but you said, I think in the beginning of the interview with Emerald Fennel, I liked your film, I hated all the people. I did, I did. I shouldn't really have said, I think in the beginning of the interview with Emerald Fennel, I liked your film, I hated all the people. I did, I did. I shouldn't really have said that so early in the interview. No, I think you're absolutely right because the scenes at the beginning, when he's often these entitled half-wits who all day, because it's like the thing about, there's nothing I find more annoying than posh people swearing loudly on trains. Because I'm like, yeah, because they've got the right to do it. And that is who they are.

But at the center of it, he's Barry Kyrgyn's quietly watchful presence. And it's, it's mercurial. And as much as it, there is so much going on in his performance. I mean, he is such a brilliant actor because he changes with each film. So I mean, whether it's calm with horses or killing of sacred deer or banshees of

indescribable or this, he looks like a different person in every film. He combines sweetness with menace. He's got a way of looking that might be bashful, but might also be sinister. There's a symphony of stuff going on in his face. And we see a lot of his face because, again, you this in the interview, they've shot in 4x3, they've shot an academy ratio because that ratio is perfect for faces, it's perfect for houses, it's perfect for pricini marches of which there are many in the film, the idea of theatre and performance. And I think it great work by in a song, who's the DP and Emerald Finale

in going, this is the shape of the film, this is the shape that this film needs to be. I think the production side was terrific as well. I liked the fact that there is an admirable level of wow. They went there, you know, there's a couple, there's a couple of scenes in the film that were, you know, they were, they were like, you know, particularly the scenes I'm talking about. I do. You're like, oh, okay, they, they went there. Personally, I preferred this to Barry, just get a glass of water.

That's what I was thinking. To film that way, since personally, I preferred it to promising young woman, which I liked very much, but I think that, okay, no, I'm not saying you have to agree, we can have a discussion about it. I think promising young... No, no, gone. I think promising young woman is really promising,

but I also think that at times, it doesn't quite gel. In the case of this, I thought it was completely other piece. I mean, and as somebody who loves Fall of the House of Usher, and the emits a gothic melodrama, isn't it? It's a gothic erotic thriller melodrama, is what it is. And I thought, tonally, this was more, it felt more advanced. It felt like she's grown into this film.

Because what you don't want, after promising young women young woman is it and I thought this was a step up You but you can disagree. I thought well here we go. This is an email loud to disagree. Yes I am indeed Nigel and Catherine are writing from rugby Dear Charles Ryder and Sebastian flight it was fine Barry Kagan is masterful Richard emergency grant joyfully swallows whole every scene he appears in, and it looks very handsome, occasionally too handsome. One particular montage seemed destined to end with a voiceover saying saltburn by Calvin Klein. But discussing on the walk home, we both found it was an entertaining watch

that didn't say anything. Perhaps that was the point. It unexpectedly romped past the Six Laugh test early on. But given the pedigree, I think we were expecting something with a solid theme or subtext, rather than Mr Ripley revisits Brideshead with a Scooby-Doo, Tales of the Unexpected Third Act. Should there be a separate scoring system for films that are only disappointing because the director's previous was so incredible. Teggy Lee Tongue very much up with Odia Sly is being unable a separate scoring system for films that are only disappointing because the director's previous was so incredible. Tegally tongue very much up with ODS Live being unable to afford paying damages by claiming bankruptcy. Nigel and Catherine, thank you very much. And I think I enjoyed it less than promising a woman definitely. I thought promising a woman was quite exceptional

and enjoyed it from start to finish. And maybe it was because I had this visceral reaction to how loathsome everybody was that I enjoyed it. But as we have discussed many times, a film can be entirely enjoyable even if the people in it are utterly horrible. I mean, to me, this is a vampire movie in which everyone is a vampire. And I mean, everyone is a vampire. And I mean everyone is a vampire. In fact, vampires

come from everywhere, Mark. They do. But they're mostly Transylvania. No, but some of them come from private school and some of them come from private. I know it's one of those weird things, isn't it? The way why do we call private schools public? There is certainly, so remind me, says a visitor from America. A private school is the same as a public school. Yes, that's right. That's right, yes, exactly. But that can't. Literally the two words mean to be do.

I mean, the vampire thing is quite clearly flagged up, as I think is the, you know, is the gothic, I mean, even in the lettering and the way. So did you not think that from a production point of view, it was coherently of a piece in a way which is really impressive? Yes, I just enjoyed it a lot less than promising. I wanted to. But did you enjoy a lot less than promising a one,

but because there was no one that you could. Who knows? I mean, who knows? But I just, I just, I thought it was. OK. Well, we, you know, I don't want to it was okay well we you know I don't want to see another state the home I just don't want to see another state I don't want to see it emerald finale says one of her favorite genres is something funny has happened in a state and I absolutely never want if I never see another stately hoax you like knives out yes but it's that's a stately home but that's a that's just a mickey

take all the way through, isn't it? Didn't you think this is basically saying the stately home is a vampire trap? No. There were all cannibals. I hadn't, I mean, clearly I hadn't gone to the cannibal analogy. Maybe that happened. The vampire analogy is not, I mean, it's like it's writ large. I mean, it's in one particular scene, it's writ particularly large.

Let us know correspondents at Covena-Mau.com. Saltburn, it'd be the movie. So, and you can spell correspondents any how you like. I think we've got all the rights to all of them. Can spell it, or you. You can. Time for this week's list of correspondents

then particularly pertaining to the voice notes which are attached therein to correspondents at kermanemau.com like these, for example. Hello, this is John and I am here to tell you about Porto Postoc, a documentary film festival held in the frankly almost insultingly charming city of Porto in the north of Portugal. This is a film festival about real stories with lots of different sections, competitions, author spotlights and parallel programming. With documentaries featuring many important artists of this area. We are here in Porto between the 17th and 27th of November and we hope to hear from you and see you to enjoy

stories of the real. Hi, Mark and Simon Sand Wilson here, the director of the Into Film Festival, the world's biggest free film festival for schools and young people running this November. We're celebrating our 10th anniversary by bringing another packed programme of free screenings and events for schools across 500 UK cinemas. Over 300,000 will be attending the festival over the coming days with children coming out of school with their classmates to watch a film, discuss it and enter our review writing competition. Thousands will be going to the cinema for the first ever time. If you're an educator just visit intufilm.org for a slash festival to find out more.

So you had Sam inviting you to the to the into film festival. No, so it's like Harold. The world's biggest festival for schools and young people. Absolutely. And before that, a mysterious John who was clearly doing like snooker commentary or either that or he was like three in the morning and he was recording it with kids asleep and he didn't want to wake anybody up, but he was also managing to blast into his microphone,

talking about the Porto post-doc film festival in Portugal. I thought it was kind of one of those very intriguing kind of come closer and discover more about document. I can't say very much because there's someone in that house I want to tell you about this before they find me I can't say very much because there's someone in that house I want to tell you about this before they find me and hang me from the ceiling Behind your bins Yes, all of that anyway, so if you've got something going on Because something going on why which I don't mean if you've got you know an intruder in the house

If you've got like a film based thing that's happening, send your audio trailer and that should be there. If you have an intruder in the house, call the police. If you have a film festival, call us. And when you're making the recording, my suggestion would be, I don't know, be about nine inches or the centimeter equivalent away from my master.

Listen to Mr. Broadcaster, it's rather than do that's why honestly, can I just say just to be clear? Firstly, thank you so much to all listeners for sending in to all they're not broadcasters your favorite scene in any film of the last however many years it is is the beginning of the King's speech when he does that explain what you've done it he he's plays his hands and holds them between his mouth and the microphone but bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bap bapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapap Take one is Spina Soni Music Institute in production. The team was Lily Matthias Teddy, Zachi, Michaely, Bethy, Hannah R. Elredacto-E and Simon Paul, who is both of the last. Mark

your film of the week. Salt burn, not the marbles. No. Anyway, thank you very much indeed for downloading. Take two has already landed alongside this particular take with lots of extra stuff recommendations, TV movie of the week bonus reviews, what are the other reviews? The bonus reviews of a terrific documentary called The Mission, a terrific documentary called Tish and a new film by Eli Roth. All of those are coming up and they're on that other podcast. Also, take three. He's going to be with you on Wednesday with our Q&A question

smash it and thank you very much.