Kermode & Mayo’s Take - TRON: ARES: “It was like my brain was atrophying” + Kathryn Bigelow & Rebecca Ferguson

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

Vanguardistas have more fun—so if you don’t already subscribe to the podcast, join the Vanguard today via Apple Podcasts or extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. In return you’ll get a whole extra Take 2 alongside Take 1 every week, with bonus reviews, more viewing recommendations from the Good Doctors and whole bonus episodes just for you. And if you’re already a Vanguardista, we salute you. Simon is off galivanting this week, so our supersub Ben Baby Smith is back—and ready to run down another big week of big screen action with Mark. We’ve got reviews of all the most exciting cinema coming up this weekend: First up, the foul-mouthed and warm-hearted drama ‘I Swear’, which tells the true story of Tourette’s activist John Davidson’s struggle with the condition after a teenage diagnosis. Another indie gem this week, ‘Plainclothes’ starring Russel Tovey and Tom Blyth, depicts the dilemma of an undercover cop discovering his sexuality after being assigned to arrest gay men at cruising spots. Finally, the biggest, shiniest and blockbuster-iest release of the week is TRON: ARES—and we’re not exactly sure how to pronounce that, so we’re going with TRON: HAIRIES. We can’t reveal Mark’s verdict before you listen... but we can say it stars Jared Leto, and that Mark treats it with the respect that it deserves. Strap in for this one—it’s a corker. Plus, if you heard Mark’s review of ‘A House of Dynamite’ last week, you might be excited to hear that its star Rebecca Ferguson—of ‘Mission: Impossible’, ‘Dune’ and many more—and its director—none other than the legendary Oscar trailblazer Kathryn Bigelow—are our very special guests in this week’s show. They unpack this super-tense nuclear thriller with Ben, and he gives them a little nugget of British 1980s nuclear panic to take away with them too. Plus the box office top 10, the Laughter Lift, and all your top correspondence answered! Don’t miss our upcoming LIVE Christmas Extravaganza at London’s Prince Edward Theatre. Tickets here: fane.co.uk/kermode-mayo Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free): I Swear Review: 10:43 Box Office Top Ten: 18:46 Kathryn Bigelow & Rebecca Ferguson Interview: 33:09 Plainclothes Review: 50:33 - Laughter Lift: 55:36 Tron: Ares Review: 1:00:28 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey Mark. You know we had Warren Ellis on the show last month? I do. It had me thinking about fabulous outfits. If I wanted to dress like Warren, do I really have to go all the way to Australia? Well, how about going there while never leaving showbiz North London? With NordVPN, you can surf like a local unlocking global content with a single click in 111 countries. I could get there cybernetically while keeping my activity encrypted. And now they have an app too, handy for banking and sensitive data. Plus, Nord are collaborating with Marvel superheroes on a new digital comic. Info on their website.

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Free offer, now available, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a vanguard Easter, we salute you. Well, we're here with another shiny new show. I'm jumping in for Simon. It's Ben here, and I'm joined Of course, by Mark. How are you doing, Mark? I'm fine. I just need to know, have you been listening to that Lemonheads single that I put you on to last time we were together? I absolutely have.

And I think the grade-out songs will be with us within the next couple of weeks. So next time I'm on, we'll be able to discuss the entire album for the few listeners that care about our Lemonheads relationship. Yeah, he's got kind of Johnny Cash thing going on now, though. It's like a really dangerous thing. mates. Yeah, I like it. I like it. It adds a little character hit to him. I was actually reading an interview with him the other day. And they always ask him about drugs. And he was like, well, you know, I'm married now and I'm slowing down. I'm slowing down. I still do this, that and the third. But, you know how you read one article and it links to an old article? So I pulled out this other article when I finished reading it. And it was from nearly 20 years ago. And it was, Almost exactly the same question, and it was a different wife, but almost exactly the same answer. Well, I'm married now and slowing down. Listen, before we get into Mark talking animatedly and excitedly about things, you've got a lot of stage directions I've noticed this week, Mark, in how you're supposed to talk about things and films.

I actually, I wanted to start by thanking you and this show and this parish because I took my family to the only cinema in London last week that was showing the Irish movie Christie. And it was such a joyous experience. Oh my gosh, we came out of that cinema and we've been talking about it ever since just enjoying it trying to recite. the song from the final credits. I mean, I just, when you reviewed it, I thought, definitely this is for me. But even knowing what you'd said about it in the first 10 minutes, I was scared. Not that it would be bad, but that it was going to be really depressing. And it's almost like a rugpole, right?

But it's not. No, it's the opposite. Yeah, but it's, it could be the feel good movie of the year. I just, I loved it. So thank you. I'm so glad because I saw it in Berlin as part of, this um they've got this this generation strands just kind of you know new upcoming film with any sort of younger audiences generally and weirdly enough as i was coming into berlin i'd

stood in the queue uh to get through customs with one of the producers who i'd met and started talking to and they said oh well we've got this film you know you must come along and see it and of course that's always terrifying because we say well what if it's not any good and i sat and i just thought it was just wonderful and then i got in touch with and said look love the film love the film and I'm not just saying that because we stood next to each other in the thing and then she came and spoke to the good lady professor her indoors was there with all the students that she takes to Berlin for the film festival and I just think it's such a joyous film and I want everybody to see it and I don't want anyone to go in thinking it's a downer

because it's the opposite it's so life of it and if you want to see you know youthful uh the next gen of of young performers coming through it so it's a great platform it's it the kids in are just superb. Amazing. Just amazing. Yeah. Right then. What have we got coming up this week, Mark? We've got another film, which potentially sounds like it might be a down of. It's fact, really life-affirming, which is, I swear. We have plain clothes, which is an independent movie. There's so much stuff happening in the kind of independent movie sector at the moment. It's interesting. And then on the big budget end, we have Tron Ares or, as it is now generally being referred to, Tron Hary's. I don't know why, but Simon Paul wrote that in an email

and I find it impossible to get out of my head. All right. And excitingly, I got to speak to the House of Dynamite director, Catherine Bigelow, and one of the stars, Rebecca Ferguson. So you can be able, yeah,

you can hear that a little later on. And what's in Take Two? Take Two, we have also another independent film, Good Boy, which is a really, really low budget, but inventive kind of horror mystery. And The Shadow's Edge, which is Jackie Chan film,

which opened in UK cinemas last week. Again, you'd have to seek it out, but I think it's worth drawing your attention to. Jackie's back. Plus all the other extra stuff, including questions, Schmestians, in which we answer the excellent question. Do you have any foods or drinks that trigger a cinematic memory for you? It's kind of like a, is it Proust or Proustian question?

I think Proustian question. I think Proustian question. There we go. Plus, we should remind you full video episodes are now available on YouTube. So you can like us, you can rate us. can subscribe us. You can comment as the good lady state school primary school teacher did herself on my studio. She said, because I was watching last week's episode on YouTube and she walked into a living room.

She said, what's this? What's this show? And I said, this is the show I do. She said, oh, it's on TV. And I said, well, this is YouTube, but on TV. She said, well, you need to get in your studio and sort it out. It's a mess, isn't it? It's disgusting.

I don't want that on YouTube. So thanks to her, I've neatened things up And you can watch us in glorious technical background Yeah, like I say, this is down to her She said, you know, get all the funny little things in your studio And stick them behind you So there we go

Yeah, you've got Woody, you've got Gooney's stuff You've got a curmud And Mayo book in which I can only see my name Yeah, that was very specifically positioned So you just get the curmode Nicely done Ben Nicely done. There you go.

There's all sorts back there. Right then. Also, this is really exciting, and I heard about this for the first time on last week's show, the Kermode-Mayo Christmas movie Spectacular is back, and it's in Central London on December 7th, right? And I'm going to try and collar the redactor in chief and see if I can get myself and the misses a ticket,

because I do not want to miss it. Ben, you have to come along. As you said, December 7th, 230, at the pretext. Prince Edward Theatre in the glittering West End of London. Yeah, you're going to get all the best bits from the podcast right in front of your faces, reviews of the week's newest releases, interviews, and of course, the very special, the festive laughter lift, the Christmas Cracker special of the Laughley. Which I can only apologise in advance.

Plus the return of our Christmas quiz, where the audience members will go head to head in a film buff battle for the ages. it says here. And tip-top guests. Yeah, tip-top guests. So, yeah, Sunday the 7th of December, 2.30pm. So we're doing, it's daytime. Tickets start at 2750, which I think is a pretty good deal. It's not a Taylor Swift ticket.

And the dedicated link you can find at Fane, that's F-A-N-E-C-C-O-K-K-K-K-K-Mode-Hifon Mayo. There we go. All right. emails who's this from oh yes okay this is from Warren da Costa

who says dear Simon and Mark a few weeks ago you had a guest on promoting the sailors a gay film festival

in London and as a result I went along to the final screening is working Mark the what's on thing is working people are hearing

and going so yeah Warren went to Karel which was the final screening Raina Verna Fasbinder film starring Brad Davis and Gianne Moreau. And he says, it turned out to be one of the most memorable cinema experiences I've had in a long time.

The screening began with a fascinating introduction from a film expert who explained the background of Faspinder, Brad Davis and the remarkable convergence of their careers and lives at that moment. Both men passing not long after the film's release. The talk also touched on the film's influence of Jean-Paul Gautier. Honestly, without that context, I suspect, I would have scoffed and dismissed it. The movie itself is gloriously bizarre, intentionally wooden acting, shoddy stage-like sets, and dialogue with one-line is so outrageous that I'll let you check out the Corel quotes on IMDB rather than repeat them here. My friends and I left the cinema asking, W-T-A-F have we just watched?

But on reflection, always like adding the A, W-T-Actual F, have we just watched? But on reflection, I think it deserves a place as a true camp classic. Imagine the Rocky Horror Show colliding with Mommy Dearest. Wow. So thank you for shining a light on that festival. I'd never have gone otherwise. And it ended up being a strange, brilliant experience. I hope you'll feature more of those kinds of promotions in the future.

Keep up the good work, Warren DeCosta. Yeah. This is the beauty of this show, right? So I took the family to see Christy because of your review. also I went to see one battle after another at my local cinema and a little indie cinema called The Lexi and as I was buying a beer at the bar

the bartender said thank you so much for talking about the Lexi on the show and everybody there they all listen to you and Simon religiously every week so it's like the connections that you guys make up and down the country and across the world of course absolutely amazing.

Right. And I'd just like to point out, Ben, you're not just mentioning the Lexi again on the basis that you're going to get another free beer. That's nothing to do with it. I should also stress... It just happened to be in your head. I should also stress,

there was a part of me when I got that lovely compliment that I thought they'd go, that's on the house, Mr. Smith. That didn't happen. Oh, it wasn't... Oh, I'm sorry. That didn't happen. To be fair to the Lexi, it is a charity,

so no freebies for me, and I'm happy that way. Right. then. Let's get this thing, Birdsong started, shall we? Yes. Correspondents at Kermenameo.m.com, by the way, for any more emails and thoughts and lovely things like Warren just sent us. But yeah, let's get this party started, Mark. What have we got? On the subject of Birdsong leads us rather nicely into, I swear, which is a biopic of John Davidson, the Chirac's Syndrome campaign. So it's written and directed by Kirk Jones. Kurt Jones came out

of advertising, had a huge hit at the end of the 80s with Waking Ned, which incidentally, was shot in the Isle of Man, in Craig Nietzsche, in the Isle of Man, very famously, went on to direct Nanny McPhee, which I loved, some rom-comy things, one of the Greek weddings. This is in a whole other league. So this is based on the true story of John Davidson, brilliantly played by Robert, I think, Arameo, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. So we meet him at the beginning of the film, preparing to receive an MBE, I think he's at Hollywood Palace, and he's terrified of going into the room because he knows that he might

say or do something inappropriate because he has Tourette's. He was the subject of a 1989 documentary, John's Not Mad, and then a couple of subsequent documentaries. So it became quite well and then became a campaigner. So the film then goes back to his childhood. Young Galashiel's boy with a potentially promising career, football is a goalie, his dad's very proud of him. Then he starts developing these twitches, these ticks. He starts spitting. He starts to say things inappropriately, often obscenities.

Causes roctions at school, causes roctions at home. his dad walks out, leaves him at home with his mum, played in brilliantly long-suffering fashion by Shirley Henderson. So fast forward several years. Now an adult, still living with his mum, who is befriended by Dottie, played by Maxine Peake, who takes him into her house, under her wing, and sort of offers him a new horizon. Here's a clip. Oh, fuck.

Come off you. Sorry, everyone. Right, John. If you're going to visit us more, off and which, you know, I hope you are. I need to speak you about your language. Aye. Kay. We have one new in this house.

And that's if you do anything, you can't help. You never, ever have to apologise for it. You know, if you're out in the street and, you know, with people who don't understand you, then fine, you know, apologize, whatever. But in this house, well, we know you can't help it. You know, well, we know you don't mean it. mean it.

Well, it all means deadly squat. It's the apology. It drives me mad. The brilliant Maxine Peek. So also Peter Molland as the caretaker local community centre who's looking for someone to follow in his footsteps and perhaps offers employment to John who needs, you know, needs something to lead him through things. So the film played in Toronto and it's been getting rave of you.

been getting rave reviews ever since, particular applauded for the performances. Simon Brew, who I'm a big fan of in film stories, said this. This was on the poster. It's on the trailer. He described this as a film that might just change someone's life. I think he's absolutely right. John Davidson won an MBE for, quote, his efforts to increase understanding of the condition and helping families deal with it across the country. And as I said, he's become an ambassador for the understanding of Tourette. And this film on which he is an exec is part of that process. When that first doc came out, John's Not Mad, he was a teenager and apparently, although it's a very good documentary,

it put him in a spotlight in a way that some people reacted to it with ridicule and laughter. That book was huge. I remember it. I had no idea until you said that in the beginning of this review that it was linked, that it is the same guy from the movie. That documentary, and your ridicule is right, because that was the year that I started,

well, that September I started secondary school, and that doc came out. And it was a bit like seeing someone do an incredible football trick or something like that. Everyone in the playground was quoting him because we thought it was hilarious. Didn't know anything about Tourette's. Precisely so. Now, so the interesting thing with this drama is that there is a lot of laughter in this film. But it's never laughing at somebody.

It's to do with laughing with a situation. The condition, which I think is brilliantly portrayed on screen, is a terrible burden. I mean, we see the suffering it causes, we see the isolation it causes. I mean, at one point, actually, it gets him hospitalized because he does something inappropriate in a bar, and the next thing he's in hospital. But we also see behind the Tourette syndrome, we see this incredibly decent man who finally manages to find a non-judgmental environment and then passes on that act of kindness himself because his life is transformed by people seeing beyond this kind of, you know, the outer embodiment of the Charette. I did an interview with Maxine Peake on stage earlier this week at the BFI. And this really weird thing happened. I started asking her a question about the film.

I was trying to say the thing about Simon Brew had said, it's a film that could change somebody's life. Because from my point of view, I mean, I didn't know anything about Charette's really at all. And watching the film, I felt that my understanding of it was really increased. But also, it's a film about empathy. It's a film about understanding all the great films are about empathy, about understanding somebody's situation. I started asking Maxine Peak this question.

And I suddenly, in the middle of the question, I found myself crying. It was the weirdest thing. I felt really kind of like a mix of confused and embarrassed. But I sort of struggled through the question. I said, I'm sorry, can you just pick this up? Because I've kind of lost it a little bit. And then Maxine Peake started, this is a real thing that happened. And then Maxine Peake started answering a question.

And she was going, oh, what are you like? And blah, blah, blah, blah. And then about five minutes later on, she was answering question about it. And she started doing the same thing. Oh, wow. And I think the reason is, because. the film, or even just a memory of the film, it's so gets you in the fields so much because it's so humanistic. It's in the real sense of that. It is a drama with real

three-dimensional people facing real three-dimensional problems and dealing with them in a way that is compassionate and empathetic. And I loved it. I absolutely loved it. I mean, bits of it are heartbreaking, bits of it are really painful to watch. And you really do get a sense of just how isolating this whole, you know, situation is. But you also get a sense of somebody overcoming tremendous odds to become the best version of themselves. And it's moving, it's funny, it's profound. And I do think Simon Brew is right. I think it might change somebody's. I've certainly changed the way that I, you know, anyone who sees it will come out with a greater understanding of Tourette's, but they will also come out with a kind of sense. And I think this is really

important nowadays in the world that people can be really good people can be really decent and really admirable in very very difficult because i honestly i just i loved it i thought it was fabulous i really loved it oh that's that's so good to hear it was trailed before christie and i i i mean all of us there sat watching the trailer you know after a trailer you'll nudge the person next to you and go that looks awful this this one it was like let's get tickets just had that feeling just from the trailer

so that's great to hear it's like that thing you said about Christy the matter the subject matter might sound slightly dark but you come out of it feeling completely

you know like you just want to embrace your you know your fellow human beings and be good empathy machine all right so we're going to be back after the break

with what mark well still to come we have reviews of playing clothes and Tron Harries But after the break, we're going to be looking at the box office top 10, and we are also going to hear your interview with... Oh, yeah, Catherine Bigelow and Rebecca Ferguson. So don't go anywhere.

And if you're at Vanguard Easter, you don't need to go anywhere because no time will have passed. But yeah, we'll be right back after this. Now, Mark, you just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates it's fast. Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed, sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. And with sponsored jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates.

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Join the movement and donate now at Movember.com. Okay, welcome back. We're going to kick off this section with the top 10. And naturally, at number 14, is Urchin. Which I really like. This is the directorial debut from Harris Dickinson, and I thought it was very well done. It is a film that on the one hand has its kind of feet on the ground,

and it's got a very good sort of tactile feeling of, you know, this is what the life is like for this main character, who's intensely unlikable, which is one of the interesting things about the film, is that you empathize with a character, who is not easy to like. But it also has these kind of slightly transcendent little details to it.

And I think Harrison's got a very good career in front of him, not just in front of the camera, but also behind it. Yeah, just a quick aside on that, because I was listening to you talking about his dedication last week. Oh, yeah. And I thought, actually, I can fully verify it and fact check that,

because I auditioned for a cameo in Urchin. And normally when you audition these days, any actor will tell you 99% of the time you're taping with another actor on your own at home, sending it in. If you do go in, you're not even meeting the casting director. You'll meet their assistant, their team-making person who just turns on the thing, reads from a script and kicks you out. When I audition for Urchin, it was Harrison. It was him. He was there. Literally, he was doing the audition.

He was giving me notes. He was acting with me in the room. And I was like, okay, that never happens. Literally never happens. So it hasn't happened before and it hasn't happened since. Yeah. Well, I think his dedication is absolutely clear. And like I said, I do think that that's the thing that we'll see him through

because he really means it. He really does. All right. Number actual 10 in the US, oh no, 10 here and 7 in the US is Avatar, the Way of Water. Why is this out again? Avatar, because there's another avatar. our film coming up and they just want to remind everybody, you know, what's

Murphahontis underwater looked like. So, yeah, hey, you know, go refresh your memory of We are the Navi. Yeah, I'll pass. You have to watch this stuff. At number nine, how is this still going? The bad guys too. 11th week.

11th week. But it's so average. I mean, it's fine. It's not bad, but it's so average. But it's hit that sweet spot. There's a phrase, isn't there? It's better than good. It's mediocre. And that's exactly what bad guys do is. It's better than good. It's mediocre. Number eight, 12 in the US is him. The problem with him is that on the one hand, it's a, it's a kind of interesting body horror that's nominally a sports movie, but it actually is a body horror. The problem with it is that it reminded me of a bunch of other films, like the substance, like the works of David Cronenberg,

which I thought did this better. I mean, Jordan Peel gets an exact producer credit on it, but the performances are good. But I really thought it winked out at the end. I thought there was an ending that it should have had that it didn't have. Then again, it's always that thing about it. Don't review the, don't review the film you wanted it to be. Review the film, it was. And the film it was was, it's all right. At number seven is the long walk. We've had so much correspondence about this and the most interesting thing was from an email a few weeks ago from somebody he said they thought it was absolutely a celebration of friendship. I mean, I thought it was a very, very bleak film and I thought it was much more about kind of the current state of

American politics, which is horrific. But it was proof once again that you take from a movie what you bring to it. And at number five, oh sorry, number six, Cantara, a legend, chapter one. Yeah, so this wasn't press screen. This is an Indian epic period mythological drama. If anyone's seen it, please do send us a review. Number five, the conjuring last rights. I mean, everything has been said, hasn't it? The site. No need to say anymore.

No further evidence, Your Honor. Number four, the smashing machine. Dear Mr. Smashing and Mr. Machine, I watched Ben Safdi's The Smashing Machine this past Saturday and simply put, I felt seen, as the kids would say. The very short of it is, I fought professionally in the mid-aughts. Mignorts, no one knows how to say that decade While I'm not an athlete of any renown

I earned enough to pay for my bachelor's degree Pay off my mum's credit card bills And pay off another family member's medical debt Yes, I am American For my trouble, I lost four teeth God, I had months where my face hurt for days, and had mornings where my shoulder ate so much I couldn't even

lift a toothbrush Now as a film, the Smashing Machine's plot Was Undercooked. It suffers from the typical issues that plagued biopics where real life is often mundane and the real facts are publicly available, so a dramatic licence is or should be limited. But as a depiction of a fighter's life in that time period, I thought it was presented brilliantly.

So many scenes felt all too real and familiar. From the emotionally charged domestic arguments to unsuccessful attempts to manage pain to the great lengths with which Mark went to avoid conflict outside of the ring, I found myself reliving similar moments in my own life. I must admit that I knew all about Mark Kerr before seeing, seeing the film. His story is why I avoided prescription painkillers and why I set a deadline for myself to stop fighting by age 24. A frequent criticism I've heard about the film is that it didn't

need to be a film or that it would be better suited as a documentary. But after 18 years since I last stepped into a ring, I finally have an instance in film media where I can show friends and family, this is what I felt like. Thank you for all the years of insightful film reviews, tinkety-tonged down with fascists and they're embarrassing plan to host a fight card on the White House law and all the best, Aaron in California. Well, thank you for that.

I mean, I think that's a really brilliant response certainly from somebody who's actually seen this from the inside. I mean, one of the things for me was watching the film and being shocked at just how violent the ultimate fighting was. I mean, it was literally closer to a pub brawl and organized wrestling. You're quite right about the thing,

but obviously Smashing Machine was a documentary before it was a feature. And I think that both the strength and the weakness is that they haven't taken huge dramatic license. What they have done is tell the story as it was, which I know, therefore, gives it a certain sense of mundanity, but that is because that is what actually happened. It is, I love the fact that you said, I feel seen, and I think that's terrific, and thank you for that response.

And I do think it is worth saying that Dwayne Johnson's performance is eye-opening. I mean, he's unrecognizable at the beginning, but it's a really, really, really. really good performance from him. I mean, I just, I can't, I mean, well done for putting yourself a date to get out of the sport, because from what I've seen of it, and I've only ever seen of it what I've seen in this film, it looks like an absolute brutal endeavor. Yeah, no, it really does. Just from the little snippet I saw on the show last week, it looked, wow.

And like you say, Dwayne did not look like Dwayne. No. I mean, he really didn't. No, no. At number three, it's aristocrats all being lovely, because they all were, weren't they, Mark, in the old days? They were lovely, especially to poor people. Yeah, Downton Abbey, the grand finale. The email that's been sent in has been titled Downton Abbey, colon, the grand finale asterisk, which I like.

It's from Paul. He says, Dear Mark and Simon, second emergency email of the day, as I felt adding this into the rather more serious previous email would be a bit jarring. in regard to your general disbelief that the conjuring last rights will not be the last and that Downton Abbey the grand finale is less than final may I suggest you borrow some punctuation

from a film that no longer needs it Marvel's Thunderbolts asterisk was retitled to the New Avengers the day after it was released and thus spoiled the end of the film so no longer needs the asterisk I suggest this is now moved and used somewhere else

for example, the conjuring last rights asterisk, thus implying to the church that you think the name of a movie is almost certainly incorrect. The asterisk can then be moved to another film when the inevitable next conjuring is announced. Hope that helps from Paul. Yeah, very good.

Very good, yeah. And I was reminded when they were making four weddings in a funeral, somebody told me that one of the titles that was suggested for it was Toffs on Heat. and this is since been denied by Richard Curtis and everyone involved in the film but when I was watching Downton Abbey the grand finale

the only thing I could think was Toffs on Heat Well there it goes out there and it's doing well And if you want to see it go support it I mean it's good to get bums on seats isn't it At number two One Battle after another Which I really really liked And Child 2 went to see it and really really liked

And then we had a sort of you know A thrilling family discussion about which bits we liked in which bit, you know. Same. However, the remarkable thing about one battle after another is that he has been knocked off the top spot for this week anyway by a film that technically isn't actually a film.

So at the number one spot in this week's chart is... Taylor Swift, the official release party of a showgo. Which is described thusly an 89-minute showgirl presentation consisting of the music video for the new single, The Fate of Ophelia, which apparently turns up twice, and then lyrics for the other songs, and then insights into each tune from Taylor Swift,

and then there's some behind the scenes. So it's basically, it's released, you know, obviously in conjunction with the album, and it has packed cinemas out and knocked one battle after another off the top spot while still being technically not actually a film. Wow, I mean, that's impressive. There's actually, there's an email here from a Swifty.

Yes, please go ahead because we love Swifties. Love Swifties. Go on. Says, I identify as a Swifty and have done for 13 years now on and off. Last year I had the time of my life at the ERA's tour in person and was delighted when Mark gave the concert film

a glowing review. Despite this, I have to echo the general sentiment that Taylor's newest album, Life of a Showgirl, is a colossal misstep that only reinforces the image of the vapid, materialistic and out of touch billionaire her critics view her as. However, out of curiosity and appreciation for music films in general. I still went to see the official

release party of a showgirl film on the off chance that it had anything of value to offer. The video for lead single The Fate of Ophelia is decent, albeit not one of Taylor's best, and the making of an album commentary segments are interesting enough. However, the bulk of the film's 90-minute runtime is occupied by lyric videos for the remaining 11 songs, all of which were little more than poorly composed TikToks, played on loop, crudely stretched into widescreen through hideous kaleidoscopic effects, while the lyrics unceremoniously appear as if from a teleprompter, the aforementioned fate of Ophelia video, the only proper music video, and frankly the only element even slightly worth the price of admission, plays in

identical forms at both the start and the end of the film, seemingly for no reason other than to pad out the runtime. The whole thing was, unfortunately, every bit of a cynical car crash, maybe it means cash grab, as the album itself. I'd be very keen to know if either of you have seen it and if you have any remarks on whether or not

such a low effort project as a wall-to-wall cinema listings for the entire weekend when hundreds of superior narrative features documentaries and visual albums can barely even get in the door. Up with high-quality cinematic representations of popular music,

down with hastily cobbled together cash grabs. Oh, there's the cash grab. And more misregards, Leon. Yeah, I mean, I haven't seen it. I wasn't offered a preview screening. only seen the description of it, so that's it. But, you know, that email seems to sum up the general reaction. As I said, in order to find out what it was, I just did a Google search that told me that, but I haven't seen it. They weren't, they weren't press screening it, because I don't

think there was any part of it, them that thought, you know, this would really help if film critics like this, I think they think that that's not the point. Yeah, I mean, it's, Listen, the woman is like a one person machine, you know, in terms of like her output, how much she puts out, when she puts something out, it's going to be accompanied by everything, isn't it? Everything is going to be huge. And that's just the way it is.

She is Taylor Swift. Yep. Be interesting to see whether one battle after another reclaims the top spot next week, because I presume that everyone who is going to see this launch party for the album thing has gone now. and that next week, normal service will be resumed. And how often does that happen that you hit the top spot, get knocked off, and then come back to it?

Well, yeah, it's not unheard of. It's not, it's not, generally what happens is things hit the top spot and then go down, but it's not unheard of something to go to number one, come off and then come back on again. It's the same in the pop charts. I mean, the Beatles did it all the time. But yes, no, it is entirely possible. And I suspect that next week the Taylor Swift film will be way, way down because everybody went to see it. I don't even know if it's still around.

I mean, maybe, presumably it probably is. But as I said, it has happened slightly outside of the film world. So it's a, you know, it's a pop fan thing that's happening in cinemas as opposed to a movie, which is, which was different to the film of the, you know, of the, of the, of the, the, of the, the, of the tour thing, which that was a slightly different thing because that was actually, you know, more of a source. Yeah. Anyway, there we go. Gosh. Well, we will be back with a bit of Tronaharis, won't we, Mark.

And what else are we looking at after the break? Plain Clothes, which is a really interesting independent feature and your fantastic interview with Catherine Bigelow and Rebecca Ferguson. So keep it locked right here. Of course, you don't need to do anything if you're a vanguardista. Otherwise, we'll see you after this. This week's guests are Catherine Bigelow and Rebecca Ferguson. Ferguson, you'll know for on Mission Impossible, June, silo, and loads more. She stars in Bigelow's new nuclear thriller, A House of Dynamite. Now, Catherine Bigglo was the first woman

to win an Oscar for Best Director, one of only three. That gets said about her all the time, so how about this for something new? Did you know she used to flip apartments alongside a world-renowned composer, Philip Glass, for a bit of cash on the side? Yeah.

These are the things that artists have to go through on the come up and what I love about this she wasn't just like doing the admin she wasn't just like oh I'll sort out the paperwork she was sanding the floors she was prepping the wood and glass was doing the plumbing incredible and I'd love to know more about that

we don't get into it in this interview you'll hear what we get into with Rebecca and Catherine after this clip approximately three minutes ago we detected an ICBM over the Pacific current flight trajectory is consistent with impact somewhere in the continental United States.

Have we seen death gone too before new? Is this real? Stratcom is asking for launch instructions right now. I'm gonna need you to breathe. We're talking about hitting a bullet with a bullet. So it's a fucking coin toss? That's what $50 billion dollars buys us? Get in the car and just start driving.

If we do not take steps to neutralize our enemies now, we will lose our window to do so. If we get this wrong, none of us are going to be alive tomorrow. And that was a clip from House of Dynamite, and I am incredibly excited to be joined here by its director, Catherine Bigelow, and one of its ensemble cast, star, Rebecca Ferguson, guys, how we doing? Good, good. All right. Good. All right.

This is incredibly exciting for me. I just watched Zero Dark 30 because I was listening to a podcast that had, it was like four or five parts, and it was about the hunt for Bin Laden. And throughout they kept saying, you know, go and watch Zero Dark 30 because they actually get a lot of stuff right in the film.

So I'd watched it again after that. And then I was asked to come and see this. I was like, oh, wow. Okay, next level. I said too heavy films to go back to block. Yeah. No, incredible. I guess the first thing I want to know is what was the seed, what was the kernel,

what was the sort of jump-off point for this project, for you, Kaffer. For me, it was a kind of very simple what-if question. What would happen if a nuclear ICBM was launched toward North America? What would ensue? And I was fortunate enough to be speaking to this extraordinary journalist slash screenwry. writer Noah Offenheim, who's an expert in this field. And he said, well, we go here, and this happens, and this happens. And I'm like, wait a minute, wait, let's write this down.

Slow down, slow down. And that's really how it began. I thought it would be worth knowing. I mean, I grew up in a time when I had to hide under my desk in case of a nuclear explosion, which, of course, was ludicrous. But nonetheless, I did. And then between then and now, several decades have passed. And I think it's really the idea of being surrounded by 12,000 plus nuclear weapons has kind of been normalized.

Nobody speaks about it. And it's very quiet. And so my feeling was to drill down on this and perhaps maybe start a conversation if at all possible. Yeah, because I was thinking about that progression, it's been eight years since your last film, but I think about those two films, the Hurtlucker, you know, the methodology within that, of you know, that insurgency that you show us. And then that journey towards finding Bin Laden in 0.30, you think digging deeper into decision-making, why, what certain decisions were taken in the heat of the moment.

This feels like this is all about the decision-making. It's all about that. It's investigative. Yeah. And, you know, I'm really, really conscious because I didn't do any research before I watched this film. The only thing I knew was your name and the name of the film. And that's it.

I thought, I'll do all the research afterwards. I like watching movies that way. But this particular movie, I really don't want to give any spoilers away. But structurally, it's very different. And did that come from Noah? Was that a joint thing? Well, I wanted to do the movie in real time. And that launch from origin to impact would be about 18 or 19 minutes.

So if you want to do the movie in real time, you've got 18. minutes to work with. And then I thought what would be interesting is to start with the people in missile defense that identify the launch at first, and then they begin to move up the chain of command with that information. And then you arrive at Rebecca and the White House Situation Room, which she handles so magnificently, and then you move into strategic command, which is basically the nuclear umbrella for America. And then you end up with the president who, is the sole authority on how to respond to this ICBM. And he only has a matter of minutes.

So that's how it was broken into thirds. That was a huge reveal for me as well because I hadn't done any research and you don't see the president for a long period of film. So when it was who it was, and I won't say if it was, I was like, oh, there he is. I wondered who it might be. So Rebecca, let's dig down into your character as well.

And just thinking about, again, like, decision-making in a situation like that, you know, from an actor's point of view, how did you even begin to prepare yourself or, you know, within the performance moments as well, relay that level of stress and panic? Did you bring any of yourself into that situation? Because I'm terrified of what this happening. I mean, it is a terrifying situation. And that's acted, but it's also the realism of the character. And I think what I loved about the script and the role is, it's not a caricature of something. It's not an animated character.

It's a real person. And the fact that Noah starts this film off in her home environment kind of gives me a little bit of an easier route for, I think, audiences to recognize themselves in because it's a home environment. It's a mom with a sick child and a father in a situation, and then she has to go to work, which they do every day, you know?

Yeah. It's just that chaos happens. But then we have Larry Pfeiffer, who is the character who Jason Clark plays in real life. Right. So Catherine and Greg, and they offered us the top people. The people who we played were on set. So you were able to interact with them during?

On a daily basis, every day. So it was like making a film with Catherine It was like here's a script Here's a plethora of information Go and do the research And rock up and do the job And then we play Right

Talk to me about the playing What's it like playing with Catherine Bigelow? So I have a bucket It's ridiculously collaborative And we've said this so many times But it's It is such a relief

for an actor to not feel micromanaged and it's not to criticize anyone else I've ever worked with I'm really fortunate with the people but a lot of people have an idea and a vision and an image in their head

and sometimes you feel locked with marks on the floor or the camera angles or you have the over the shoulder the over the shoulder the half shot the whole shot and this was not it you had no marks the cameras were all over the room whether it was put on your little

on your computer because everything was shot in real time so they had the sets built they were live they were live so the feeds happened authentically at the moment so that kind of Zoom call thing that was simultaneous

simultaneous filming those actors so where we see Jared Harris he's being shot in the scene that we're going to see later whilst he's done that's stressful it was very stressful it's like a play but like three dimensional chess You were playing this game and this game and that game.

It was... And it just becomes real. And the set designer, he's... Jeremy is incredible because I hadn't been to the situation room, but Larry has worked there. So my reaction came from him when I saw Larry walk on to set

and it was just the way the desks were, the chairs. He said, I'm literally in the room. This is insane. And I could live. it through him. So it became very real. And then it was about holding the story. It's all there. And you mentioned that thing about family. And, you know, I really felt that watching the film. And I think Volker's score, Volker Bertelman's score helps this. Like, because there's these sweeping moments of, you know, orchestral strings and stuff like that. It feels huge. And then there's

these tiny silent moments, you know, and I felt like that sort of reflected how I felt about the movie. This huge macro thing happening, but then there's all the micro things. The kids at the basketball court, you know, your character's family. It's the layering, isn't it? Yeah. And, you know, was that a conscious thing from the start, Catherine, to have, you know, like, you see little news clips. Yeah. throughout, like, oh, the economy, blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden, he's like, oh, my God, that means nothing. That means nothing.

Nothing, right. I think, well, it's a juxtaposition between the macro and the micro, I suppose. But keeping humanity very much present, even in a situation which is very procedural, because that's what they have to follow procedure. But yet humanity is almost way more important than procedure, because that's what's at stake. And I wanted to remind the other. audiences, that's what you will lose in a situation with a nuclear event. And so I think a conversation about reducing the nuclear stockpile is in order.

And that's what it felt like to me, like a conversation, because the structure that you created to go back and go back again, it forced me to think less about, you know, the disaster, the big disaster. think about this situation that we're in like meditate on it no go back think about it again go back think about it again I found that incredibly powerful

oh that's wonderful wonderful sedimenting the thought yeah are there any heroes in this film do you think Rebecca is your character one of them if there are I don't know I think once you said there are no goodies and badies basically the situation

the fact that you decided to make it unknown I think we as humans love to find something to blame and to point a finger at. And I think whether it's goodies or baddies, I think what's fascinating, again, we've discussed is that people in the Situation Room and Stratcom are so trained. They are good at their work. They are heroes at their work, but they don't make the decision. That's the president, who sadly enough isn't as briefed as the other people. but at all. I mean, he's calling his wife who's on safari saying,

what do I do? What do I do? Which is probably what I would do. We spoke to a gentleman who was former chief of staff at the Pentagon and said, so how often do you practice this protocol? I mean, if this were to happen, what is the procedure? And he said, well, we almost never practice it because they're too busy with, you know, whatever else, hostage negotiation or, you know, 10,000 other things.

Yet when we went to Stratcom, how often do you practice 400 times a year? So it's more than twice a day. Wow. So they're totally dialed in, but the president, who ultimately has to make the decision... Within minutes. Within minutes is not. So it's a paradox that, I mean, certainly I found kind of terrifying. And that's why it's so hard to discuss heroes

because it's a situation where we're discussing, you know, nuclear war. Are there heroes in a decision when it comes to nukes? Should there be heroes? Should we have the amount of warheads we have? Should this be a topic where someone's a hero? I don't... It's such a counter-juxtaposition, isn't it? It really is. I don't even think this is a question, but you might not relate to this,

Rebecca, because you grew up in Sweden. I'm not sure if it made it there. But when I was a kid in the 80s, I was obsessed with these children books by a guy called Raymond Briggs and my dad bought me all of them. And one of them turned out to be an adult picture book called When the Wind Blows. And it was about an elderly couple in rural England, a very lovely, optimistic couple who you slowly begin to realize there is a nuclear attack coming to the UK. And you see this all reflected through the eyes of an

oldly couple, no children in their rural house. Oh, I have to be. What happened? It is one of the most profound things I've ever read. I'm not going to spoil it for you, but go and get that book and tell me how the wind blows. When the wind blows. And I, when I was watching a house of dynamite, I thought, oh my God, this is the prequel to when the wind blows. Oh, my God, read this. We have to.

Immediately. Please do, please do. What's next for you guys? The prequel, when the wind blows. After you've read When the Wind Blows, Catherine, I mean, it's eight years since your last film, are we going to have to wait that long? It's hard to find. Well, I was developing several things, but this was the one that, you know, made the most sense.

And also, I felt like it was timely and topical and urgent. And I wanted to have it. Hopefully has a ripple effect and have it be perceived as a warning. inclination is flattening yeah and rebecca what where do we see you next oh she's she's always busy car i'm low over the place she's a legend no i'm doing other things she's talking it down no i'm not but you know what and it's promoting other things but i think what's amazing is sticking to when you do a film like this we can do press and we move on but i feel that i'm constantly in this environment in my own mind whatever i'm doing it's not my new to tiny comparison but this one has

struck something in me where i feel like the choice is moving forward become bigger well that makes me excited for your future for sure and for me as a watcher thanks so much guys really appreciate your time well isn't that nice um you enjoy that mark yeah yet yet another interview that ends with with the interview equivalent of Love the Show, Steve, which is our interview of being told how very much they enjoy being interviewed. I mean, it just makes me feel left out. Also, I love the fact that you brought up

when the wind blows, and they hadn't heard of it. Because, I mean, that was, I don't think I've come across anybody who hasn't read when the wind blows. It was such a big deal when it came out. I was huge. And it was funny because watching the film, we reviewed it last week, as you said,

It was the first film that's made me worried about nuclear war in a very long time because we'd all kind of got into the habit of thinking, well, the mutually assured destruction thing will just stop that ever happening. It would be fine. But what that film does is it gives you that palm sweating feeling of, no, no, no, it might happen because of all this kind of, you know, 18 minutes for all this stuff to be sorted out. Also, it doesn't help that, as I said at the time, when you were watching the movie, that's a movie in which, it's not a spoiler anymore because everybody now knows this,

in which Idris Elber is the president, and Pete Hegseth doesn't exist. And we now live in a world in which neither of those two things are true, which is infinitely more alarming. Mark, what else is new and fresh and shiny and maybe lovely? Okay, so plainclothes, which is an independent American feature

from, well, independent feature of American writer-directed Carmen Emmy, premiered at Sundance early this year, won the Sundance Special Award for Jury Award for Ensemble cast. So set in Syracuse, where Carmen Emmy grew up, follows two characters, both of whom, incidentally, are played by British actors. So yet again, another example of, we're going to do this probably, let's get the Brits in.

So Tom Blythe is Lucas, who we meet working as an undercover cop in the 90s. He's involved in a sting operation to entrap gay men, filming them apparently engaged in illicit activity in a public restroom. Here is a clip. We have a rule on this detail. No words and no entering the stall. This guy, I just directed with my eyes. Police me! What did I do?

Against the law, why under arrest? Hey, ma'am. You got to introduce somebody new to my nephew here. Okay, so what's your type? Who are you? I don't really have a type. So the film's got this kind of the trappings of being a police procedural, and it's got a somewhat noirish poster that kind of implies that undercover intrigue, something more.

There's something more is that in the course of this work, our central character encounters Andrew, who's played by Russell Tovey, who I interviewed on stage a few days ago, whom Lucas sets out originally to entrap, but with whom he develops an unexpected bond. And the two end up having a relationship, albeit at arm's length. And Lucas starts to discover or uncover his own sexuality, which is a trait that you can trace back to movies, very different movies, like, for example, you know, William Freakins cruising. but also to want something from Andrew that Andrew can't give him. The story is told in this, it's told very, very well, but in this non-linear fashion.

So it moves back and forth between different time periods, which are flagged up by different filming styles. And that kind of enhances the sense of mystery, the kind of police procedural element feeds into that, into the storytelling. So you get tension and intrigue and reveals. But also, at the heart of it, it is a romance. And I read an interview with the writer-director who said, love this quote. He said, I read somewhere that a certain age, maybe 12 to 13 year old, boys

are taught that a punch is better than a hug. That sentiment stuck with me and really helped me form the question I set out to ask in this film. What happens when you police your feelings? And I love that phrase policing your feelings. I love the fact that what the film is doing is like blending the idea of the emotional and the procedural, both in terms of the story and also in terms of the filmmaking style. I was talking to Russell Tovey about it in the the same show in which I broke burst into tears whilst interviewing Maxine Peake. And he pointed out that, you know, although this sting operation is set in the 90s, which obviously in the past and everything,

that actually the stuff that the film is dealing with, which is to do with homophobia and prejudice and twisted ideas of masculinity, are probably more relevant now than they ever were. And again, this is the second time, obviously third, if we're talking about Christy, talking about a film in which what the film is making you do is empathize with these characters whose situations you know you may not know personally but who you come to understand because the way the story the way the filmmaker tells their story makes you see the world through their eyes and so on the one hand it's it is a it is a specific story about this

undercover cop trying to entrap gay men but it is very universal in that what it's to do with is that that thing that is what happens when you police your feelings and I like the fact that that has then bled into okay so it is therefore a police procedural with this kind of historical backdrop to it. Anyway, once again, once again, independent, low-budget cinema, made by people who really care, turns out to be the most interesting thing on release. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm yet to watch that one, but it is on my list. Definitely going to check it out. And I do have a huge soft spot for Russell. I just think he's always great. It's fat, it brings so much heart to everything. And then I suppose when you meet him, it makes a lot of sense

why that is. Same with Maxine, right? The thing I hadn't plot with Russell Tovey, but was he's really built. He came on, he came onto the stage and he, well, yeah, I mean, he had this, this, either that or he, but he had this kind of tight jumper on. He was like, wow,

you are, you are really, so I felt all kind of fragile and old. Yeah, that's that, that thing where you, where you go too far with the handshake, you do the handshake, and then you do like the old, the sort of friendly pat on the upper arm, and you're like, oh, wow. Okay, we have very different lifestyles.

Gym pub, gym pub, okay. All right, well, we're actually, we're going to get into the ads in a minute, Mark. But you're going to be overjoyed to know that once again, it's time to step with Wild Abandon into our laughter lift. Anyway, hey, Mark. You know, just before we started recording this morning, I was sitting in my studio, drinking coffee in my slippers,

contemplating what a great show this was going to be when I thought to myself, I really need to wash some mugs. Is that it? That's it, right? Oh, I've got it. I've got it. Do it again.

Simon Paul has just explained it in the toilet. Read the joke again. Oh, it's drinking coffee in my slippers. So he's drinking off in my slippers. It's a version of I shot an elephant in my pyjamas, what he was doing in my pyjamas. The convolution of the setup. He'd that, yeah.

That is a new low. That is a new low. Even established comedian, Ben, couldn't make that fly. Yeah, I'm going to make up a joke to try and replace that. How about this? I was watching The Smashing Machine with the Good State School Primary Teacher, her indoors the other night. And as soon as it was over, I very intelligently reviewed it

and then wrestled her to the ground. What hell are you doing? She shouted. I'm in Mark Kerr mode. Hey! Hey? There we go. There we go.

Okay, let's get back to Simon Stowe's. I was up very early, Mark, because there was a dawn raid. Can you believe it? The policeman said, Doc Brown, I'm arresting you for downloading the entire Wikipedia. I said, wait, I can explain everything. Which is not bad. Okay, that's better. It's better.

Which reminds me of the time when I went to Disneyland And I was a victim of a very unlikely crime This was outrageous Can you believe I got mugged by six of the seven dwarfs Not happy Quite like that joke And there we are Yeah

And there we are So that's your laughter lift this week I'm sure it will improve massively next week Not But it won't No it won't And this is what This is what the fast forward button is for on your podcast, wherever you get your podcasts.

All right. What have we got after when we come back, though, Mark? Have we got anything in the last section? Harry Trom. That would be funnier than the laughter lift, for sure. Bit of Harry Tron. So join us for that after this. Welcome back. Now, we've been asking you guys to let us know what is going on in your area, film-wise, events, all of that good stuff. And as always, you brilliant people have responded phenomenally. So we've got a couple of what's-ons this week. First off,

Hello, Mark and Simon, and hello to Jason Isaacs. It's John here from the Sherbourne International Film Festival in Dorset, running at the Powell Theatre from October the 16th to the 19th. We're screening brilliant films like, Parasites, Cinema Paradiso and Pele, Birth of a Legend, all to raise funds for the Halo Trust who clear landmines. Tickets are available at Schiff.uk, that's S-I-F-F-U-K, or from Winston's bookshops in Sherbourne. And also, we have one from Peter in Romford. Hello, Simon and Mark. It's Peter Blondon here. I want to tell all the listeners all about the amazing Lumiere Cinema in Rompford, a cooperative, not-for-profit independent cinema that's been open since April. This month, we're showing the 100 greatest horror films of all time, all day, every day. We also host community art classes, baby massage, and soon, puppy yoga.

Check out our story and listings at Lumiere rompford.com. That is quite the range, mark. A hundred horror films and baby massage. Work those into your life. And puppy yoga. Puppy yoga. I'm guessing is yoga for the older gentleman, perhaps? I'm not sure.

Now, I watched this show on YouTube last week, as I was saying earlier. Did you and Simon see that one of the Watson's was read by a man dressed as Ludo from Labyrinth? Did you see that? Or did you just hear it? Only, only subsequently. That made sense. Because I was like, why are they not reacting to a man stood in a Ludo suit? No, yeah.

We just heard the audio, and we were wondering why he was using that voice. and then we got sent the video which was, oh, well, that explains a lot. Context is everything. It was one of the weirdest bits of YouTube footage that I'd seen for a while, just you two really stone-facedly looking at a mantra stuff as a Muppet essentially.

Anyway, speaking of Muppets, let's get into our last review of Take One. Mark, take it away. Tron Ares, the third in the Tron series, following 982's Tron, 2010's Tron Legacy. The first film, which you were talking about earlier on, written and directed by Stephen Lisberger, Jeff Bridges is Kevin Flynn,

computer programmer, video game designer, transported inside the world of software and, you know, forced to take part in games, early example of extensive CG and scored by Wendy Carlos, who actually had a very rough ride with the project. Then, Tron Legacy, many years later, Joseph Kaczynski, he of Top Gun Maverick and F1.

Son gets a message from the father transported into the grid, music by Darth Punk. Now, that film cost $170 million, took $400. It's okay. I mean, it's not a brilliant return, but the general feeling was that perhaps the nostalgia and love for Tron had been overstressed. Now we have this, however, which is the next Tron movie, which is written by Jesse Wiguto. I presume that how you pronounce it, directed by Joachim Reunning, Norwegian director of Maleficent, Young Women in the Sea, co-director of Contiki, which was very good,

and Pirate to the Caribbean, Dead Men Tell No Tales, aka Salazar's Revenge, which is very, very bad. That was a belated sequel that no one was asking for, which brings us rather brilliantly to Tron Aries. Score, incidentally, by 9-inch nails with Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross also getting exec producer credits alongside Kaczynski. also producing Tron Ares, his creative genius and part-time Messiah, Jared. Now, I think he's Leto, because there's a whole thing on Conan O'Brien doing a routine about him being Leto, not Leto. But I have now checked so many interviews in which his name is Leto or Letto, and he agrees with all of it. So frankly, I don't care anymore.

Anyway, he plays the titular Ares, a computer-generated super villain hero made inside the virtual, world, now brought into the real world via a piece of kind of 3D laser printing cooked up by the slimy tech bro Julian Dillinger. Here is a clip. Ladies and gentlemen, I would like you to meet Aries. This is the most sophisticated security program ever written. You want to shake his hand? Go ahead. It doesn't bite. Aries has billions of lines of code unique to him. Is it alive? That depends on your definition, Stuart. Because unlike you, he's biblically strong, lightning fast, and supremely intelligent.

He is fully proprietary and 100% expendable. Aries is the ultimate soldier. He needs no food, no water, sheds no blood, and if by some miracle he is struck down on the battlefield, I will simply make you another. Were they describing... Were they describing Ares there, or Jared? I couldn't work it out from the details. What possibly would have meant, you know, the producer of the film to star as a character

who is, quote, physically strong, lightning fast and supremely intelligent. Anyway, so incidentally, the way in which, if you weren't watching that, the way in which Jared Leto plays that superintelligence is by wearing this really super-silious smile all the way through the film that I just wanted to punch from the first moment I saw it. Anyway, he's also in the real world unstable, what a shock, been self-destructs after 29 minutes because they haven't figured out a way of getting these things into the real world and in them lasting longer than half an hour. However, the CEO of Encom is searching for a permanence code which has been hidden by Flynn in the grid. And Greta Lee is on the trail of it. And if it's

found, it'll solve the problem. So she spends some time being chased a around the real world by Jody Turner Smith's Athena, sidekick of Ares, and sometime in the cyber world, which if you remember was the whole point of Tron in the first place, which was, you know, oh, we're in the cyber world. But no, this basically abandons that in favor of watching very big machines in the real world, knocking down very big buildings in the real world.

So the film is, it's visually flashy, it's very noisy, it is utterly empty, and it is one of the most boring experiences I have had in a very, very long time. The main problems of these, for all the flashbang visuals, and there's a lot of flashing and a lot of banging, I didn't care about anyone or anything at any point. In the first film, you had this kind of setup, which is the guy who's a gamer is sort of, you know, done dirty on by this corporation, and then he sent into this machine that he ends up having to play these games. And, you know, that was a thing. And you were talking about driving around on your bikes with a torch because we'd all seen Toronto. We'd never been inside the computer world. In this, Harid Leto is basically a computer program discovering human emotions in a manner which is, A, not convincing, and more importantly, not in the slightest bit interesting, because the whole way he describes those human emotions is to have this super-sillious smug look on his face. Like, hmm, I'm learning about human emotions, but I'm also physically strong and super-intelligent.

So the whole thing is bolted together, like bits from other movies that have happened since Tron and then, you know, older texts that have been redone so much better. So you get the, you know, the creator creation riff from Frankenstein. You get the synthetic human thing from Blade Runner and Blade Runner 2049, which was in. You get the Wizard of Oz hiding at the center of the game thing, which is really just another riff on that ready player one thing. You get the ultimate fighting machine and the rise of the robots from Terminator. You get the smashy, crashing machines hitting buildings from Transformers.

You get the real world, virtual world riff from the Matrix. And all of those movies are frankly more interesting than this. And worse of all, all the time I was watching it, I was thinking, I really loved hackers. Hackers was a great film. And Hackers was massively sort of overlooked at the time. And now Hackers looks like a masterpiece. All those movies are more interesting. And watching this was so boring that I spent a large portion of the time just making up a series of terrible

puns about the films that this is ripped off of. Do you want to hear what I came up with? I mean, this is what I was doing to occupy myself whilst all this stuff was happening. So, J. Arthur Rankinstein, Blade Bummer, Blade Runner, 2049, The Wizard of Snores, Transborners, ready player dumb, the fake tricks, and my favorite cackers. And that level of humour is how much this film had made me more stupid whilst watching it. I mean, literally whilst watching it, it was like my brain was acting. atrophying inside my head because it was so immensely loud and stupid.

And at the center of it all is Jared Lito Leto I Don't Care, who looks like electro Jesus from the outset represents being electronic by not blinking, which is basically what Haley Joel Osmond did in AI. And then there's a scene in the middle of it, which is meant to be endearing, in which the character that Jared Lito Leto, I Don't Careo plays, describes why he loves Depeche Mode. And whether deliberately or accidentally, it seems to be a riff on that scene from American Psycho

in which Patrick Bateman explains why he loves Huey Lewis in the news to Jared Leto, who he then kills with an axe. And the difference with this is, firstly, the scene of explaining why he loves Depeche Mode is a lot less funny than the scene when Patrick Bateman explains why he loves Huey Lewis in the news. And the second thing is, it doesn't end with Jared Leto's character getting hit with an axe.

which is a problem because it would have made Tron Ares infinitely more entertaining. Instead, we have to sit and watch this silly-haired unblinking demigod nitwit turn into this kind of sympathetic human profit. And there is a scene at the end of the film, which if it doesn't actually trigger your vomit response, then something is wrong with you. Best moment in the film, Gillian Anderson slaps somebody, which was quite funny. the worst thing is that it takes people like Greta Lee and Jody Turner Smith,

who I know you're a huge fan of as well, gives them really not much to do. I mean, look, they do it a lot better than anybody else, but the thing is that being right at the top of a pile of poo still leaves you at the top of a pile of poo. So in terms of, you know, IP recognition possibilities, the amount of money spent, the amount of soundtrack stuff going on

that ought to be interesting, right, nine inch nails, that ought to be an interesting thing. You know, all that, I think this is not only the worst film of the week, but I would think a very strong contender for worst film of the year. It's absolutely awful. It'll be number one next week.

I mean, could have been worse. He could have been Italian, Jared Leto, couldn't he? At least that was funny. At least him being Italian was funny. Wow. I mean, that sounds like a huge honking pile of birdsong. I've used this phrase before, but it was like being shouted to sleep. It was so noisy and so uninteresting.

Yeah. And that's the end of take one. Thank you for joining us. This has been a Sony music entertainment production. This week's team was Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. The producer was Gem. Redactor was Simon Paul. If you're not following the pod already, come on now.

please do so wherever you get your podcasts. And you can watch every episode now and see our lovely backdrops on our lovely YouTube channel. Don't forget the Exmas show coming up on the 7th of December go to www. www.

fainfane.c.com.com. U.K. forward slash curmode hyphen mayo. All right. Get your tickets. Mark, what's your film of the week? My film of the week, I swear, is I swear. Thank goodness for that.

Take 2 has dropped simultaneously to this one and we'll see you back here next week.