Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Vicky McClure, If, Two Tickets to Greece & Hoard

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

This week, Vicky McClure chats to Simon about her new limited series ‘Insomnia’, which sees a mother approaching her fortieth birthday forced to grapple with her traumatic past after she develops insomnia.   Mark gives his thoughts on various new releases, including ‘Two Tickets to Greece’, a French comedy-drama starring Laure Calamy (of ‘Call My Agent’ fame) which follows two childhood friends who cross paths after many years and finally decide to take their dream vacation to Greece; and ‘Hoard’, a social realist psychodrama, which sees a teenager living in a foster home encouraged by a previous resident to revisit her childhood memories of her mother who used to be a hoarder.   The big review of the week is 'If’, John Krasinski’s latest, which sees a 12-year-old girl, who can see everyone’s imaginary friends, embark on a magical journey to reconnect the forgotten so-called IFs with the now-adult kids who dreamt them up.  Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!):  07:00 – Two Tickets For Greece Review  11:49 – Box Office Top Ten  21:40 – Vicky McClure Interview  35:36 – Hoard Review  42:40 – IF Review    You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.     Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey Mark, you know I've been spending a lot more time in Denmark recently. Yep, the bakery date in Sydney calendar still. Well, it being a Nordic country and everything, I found the perfect solution to streaming all those lovely films and TV shows that we review whilst I'm there. What on earth would that perfect solution be, Simon? Well, NordVPN, of course, you see it's Nord, Nordic. You don't know it yet. I get it. Moving on.

With one click, NordVPN can change my device's virtual location so I can access all the content I need when I'm abroad. I can now watch poor things, whether in London or Paris. Why even wait until you're on holiday? You can do it right now and access content in over 61 different countries, unlocking all this content for less than a price of a pano raisin a month. Jason Vale Pano raisin. To take our huge discount off your NordVPN plan, go to nordvpn.com slash take. Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two-year plan. Now, back to the show. All right, Mark. All right, Simon.

We haven't done that for a while. I know. You know smugness. I am familiar with smugness, yeah. Yeah, I am very familiar. Because the reason I ask is there's a very fine line between being smug and being self-confident. I've been listening to a few podcasts recently and I just ended up thinking, you guys sound really smug. I know that people will think that of us as well. I'm just trying to work out what point you cross over

from being self-confident to being smug. I don't know. I'm very aware of the fact that when you say people will think we're smug, I think people think I'm smug. I don't think they think you're smug, but people think I'm smug. Well, I think if you... Well, it confuses me. Listen, enough people have told me that that's how I sound, so I know that's how I sound. But the weird thing is this. I don't feel smug. What I mean is I'm actually fantastically unconfident and constantly sure that I'm wrong about everything. And the very essence of smug is that you're convinced that

you're right. So apparently I sound like I'm convinced that I'm right. But I've got a mug somewhere. You're a critic, so therefore if you didn't think you were right about your views, you wouldn't express your views in the first place. No, I don't agree with that. I actually think that the more you do it, the more... I've got a mug with a quote on it which says, the greatest of all human knowledge is understanding that we know nothing. And as I said, my mom, who was a GP, said the older she got and the more she knew about medicine, the more she understood how little we know about medicine and the human body.

And we've talked about this before, that the greatest knowledge is the knowledge of how little you know. But as I said, if you have a free half an hour, Google Mark Kermode and Smug, there are thousands of pages out there. Simon Mayo, trustworthy, lovable, likable, welcoming. In the 1550s, smug meant trim, neat, spruce, and smart. So let's be smug in the 16th century concept of the word. Did it? Seriously? Yeah. So there you go. That's what I think we should be. We're smug, but from the 16th century. Fine. Yes. I will absolutely take that as a win in that case.

Excellent. Excellent. That's the first win. And with that particular win in our sales, what are we going to be doing later? Jason Vale We have a fantastic pack show for you. We have reviews of Two Tickets to Greece, which is a very interesting film, Horde, which is a new British film. And if last week we had John Krasinski and Phoebe Waller-Bridge as our guests talking about IF. This week, our special guest is Vicki McClure, who was of course, LOL Jenkins in This Is England, DC Kate Fleming in Line of Duty on the telly, Lana Washington in Trigger Point and played,

although I admit I'd forgotten this, opposite Jason Statham in Hummingbird. So there you go. Jason Statham. Vicki McClure will be on talking about her new TV show. First of all, Ricky in Edinburgh. Dear Added and Value, a word from Peddent's Pew here. This is going to kind of worms. Every week in take one, Simon describes the reviews, interviews and other premium content in take two as being bonus. As in, there will be bonus reviews of whatever in Take Two. This is entirely the wrong word. Dictionary.com defines the word bonus amongst

other things as something extra or additional given freely. But everyone who hears Take Two is a paying subscriber. So the Take Two content is not given freely. It's the exact opposite of bonus. It is premium content that we pay for, says Ricky Naderbrough. Okay, thank you Ricky for that. However, bonus, from the Latin bonus meaning good, also can be defined as, and I quote from another source, money or benefit given as a premium or extra pay to reward or encourage work. Nothing about it being free.

It's just a reward or encourage work. Nothing about it being free. It's just a reward to encourage work. So you pay your money, I would say. So let's just be specific and say, um, our recommendation feature, uh, weekend watch this weekend, not list will be here to premium and bonus reviews. Um, what is going to be premium and bonus? It's the BFI reissue of Rome Open City and Ripley, the Netflix series. One Frame Back is about imaginary friends, I believe. And you don't have to wait until Wednesday for questions, Schmesjens, because they're already in take two. You can access

this via Apple Podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices. Add free episodes of Ben and Nemoans, Shrink the Box, our old pal Killian Murphy's most memorable TV creation, Thomas Shelby, is dropping next week by the way. If you are already a Vanguard Easter and privy to bonus and premium content as ever, we salute you. Andrew Robertson, PhD. Hello, Andrew. From the Department of International Education and Applied Chemistry, Kewoka in Japan. Kewoka. Anyway, bird song. Bombay Mix. Remember I discovered some Bombay Mix and wondered if it had drugs in it? I was just laughing at your math joke. Sorry. Yes, I do. Bombay Mix says, Andrew Robertson, contain several normal flavour chemicals that make you a bit happy when you eat them. It is the happiness that you're addicted to, not the chemicals. Our minds have evolved to crave four tastes, sugar, fat, glutamate and salt. Sugar and fat signal

the high concentration of energy, glutamate, also known as MSG or umami, represent concentrated protein and salt signals, well, salt. Any food we consider delicious will have at least three and often all four of these components. When we taste one of these, our brains release a pulse of dopamine, the chemical that gives us that yes feeling. It is the dopamine hit that is addictive, not the chemicals in the food itself. So, Bombay Mix is addictive in the same way that video games or social media is addictive. Also, all food is chemicals. If it's not a chemical, it's not food. Down with food misinformation in all its forms. Thank you, Andy, from Kyushu University, Kouoka in Japan.

Jason Vale That's what it looks like. Andy Watt Yeah. Didn't they recently discover a fifth flavor, like cement or- Jason Vale Umami. That's the umami bit. Andy Watt Oh, that's umami. Is it? Okay, fine, fine, fine. Yes. Right, yes. And late in Tame, following your recent discussion about drugs and Bombay mix,

I've never understood why in a world where opal fruits are renamed Starburst and Marathons are renamed stickers, that Bombay mix wouldn't have been renamed the more alliterative and less colonial Mumbai mix. Actually, yeah. Which is true. Mumbai mixed us up better. But then Peking Duck is still Peking Duck, is it? It's not Beijing Duck. I don't think so.

Anyway, thank you very much indeed. Correspondence at kerbinamo.com. Tell us about a movie that we might want to go and see. Okay, so this is something that I had fairly low expectations of. Two tickets to Greece and I had low expectations because I had seen a few reviews that said the word undemanding turned up a lot. Okay, so this is a French midlife comedy, a la Shirley Valentine from writer-director Marc Fetussi, stars Lord Calamity from Call My Agent, the French Call My Agent, the original

Call My Agent. And Olivia Cot, they were former school friends. When they were at school, they were very, very close. Now they're estranged, brought together in a holiday in Greece. So Cot is blondine. She's recently divorced. She's uptight. Her teenage son thinks that she really needs a shot in the arm in her life. And he discovers amongst her possessions a CD, a soundtrack CD of the Big Blue. And on the back of it, it says that it's a possession of Magali, who turns out to have been a schoolfriend with whom she has lost touch.

So what happens is that the son arranges a dinner for them together, and then arranges for them to go on the holiday to Greece, to the island where Big Blue is set, which they never did before. Of course, they're chalk and cheese, Blondine is reserved, conservative, anxious, Magali is the life and soul of the party, she bunks off paying fares, she bounces between men, she lives la vida loca. They're trying to get to Amorgos, which is this island, the Big Blue Island, but they're constantly thwarted by the fact that she's a rebellious force of nature. She gets them stranded on a completely different island, says, I came for the Big Blue, but I found Point Break. But no matter what happens,

she is always on the lookout for a party and always trying to bring back the magic that they had when they were younger. Here's a clip. in the world. Really? Yes! Okay. Good start. Good Gandhi-stayton. Gandhi-stayton. All right. Garisto Polly! So Young Hearts from Free. I love the fact that she says, if you play this, it will make you the best DG in the

world. What, the best director general in the world? Yes, the best director general. And she hands him an iPod, an old fashioned iPod. Exactly, because all the stuff she loves is kind of stuff from the past. And she loves, you know, classic disco. And she loves the things that remind her of when they were younger. In fact, there is a lovely scene in which her friend is watching her dance, and she sees the younger version of herself dancing. There is a really nice thing going on there about the way in which we see younger versions

of ourselves. Then about halfway through, Kristin Scott Thomas turns up as Bijou, who is this jewelry maker who's got a Greek artist partner who she takes no nonsense from. She says, oh, here's all his work. They're all ugly and terrible, but he sells them for huge amounts of money. She's described as a mentress, which is a mentor, but a female, if that's the word they've made up. But she keeps saying to Blonde, move on, grab life, enjoy your life, enjoy food, enjoy sex. And then through

her character, the drama kind of moves from being comedic into being slightly more serious, because it starts dealing with an issue that cinema has traditionally shied away from without giving away plot spoilers. If you've seen Suzanne Beer's Love Is All You Need, which is a lovely, lovely film, it's like that. It's dealing with serious issues, but doing so in a way which is really empathetic and generous and warm and unembarrassed. As her character moves from comedic to serious, so the drama does. And I think it goes from being this fun travelogue fare into being something more profound. Also, it's talking about characters and serving an audience who are often very,

very poorly served by cinema. There are a couple of very funny lines here. There's a line where they're going out to go out for a party and they catch the sights of each other in the mirror and she says, we look like Cyndi Lauper lookalike competition contestants. And there's also some nice stuff about rollerblading and roller boogieing. It's way better than that awful big fat Greek wedding sequel. So I said, I went in having been told, undemanding and yes, it's funny and charming, but there is also something more serious in there. And yeah, I was rather charmed by it and rather impressed. Does Cliff Richard turn up at any stage on a double decker bus?

He doesn't. He doesn't. No, no, he doesn't. That is one of the things that I was wondering all the way through. Yeah. Still to come in just a moment, what are you going to review for us after that? A Horde, which is a new British film, and If, which is the live action animation from John Krasinski who does everything. And we're going to be talking to Vicky McClure, but first… So we just wanted to tell you about what our friends at Rooftop Film Club are up to. As you know, they are London's king of outdoor cinema.

More than just a movie with rooftop experiences located at Bussey Building in Peckham and Roof East in Stratford. Sit back, relax, get cosy in a blanket and use the QR code on your seat to have food and drink delivered directly to you. They're playing all the award-winning films like Past Lives, Anatomy of a Fool, All of Us Strangers, but also classics like Interstellar when Harry met Sally, and more recent films like Challenges and Fall Guy. Rooftop Film Club offers memberships for as little as £25 per month. That's not all, as a Vanguard Easter you get 2 for 1 tickets on a Wednesday with the code THETAKE24.

That's T-H-E-T-A-K-E24. Visit RooftopFil rooftopfilmclub.com. That's the sound of fried chicken with a spicy history. Thornton Prince was a ladies' man. To get revenge, his girlfriend hid spices in his fried chicken. He loved it so much, he opened Prince's Hot Chicken. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person plan your trip at TNVacation.com.

Tennessee sounds perfect. Well, it's Box Office Top 10 time, brought to you with our very good friends at Comscore Movies. Mark, when you need a Top 10, where do you go? I always go to Comscore. They always bring me pastries as well. So it's a great service. You get your snacks, you get your refreshment and you get your movie charts. So who could ask for more? At number 24,

Made in England, the films of Powell and Pressburger. Jason Vale I mean, I love this partly because I'm a huge fan of Powell and Pressburger, partly because it's really nice to see Martin Scorsese, who is the great champion of Powell and Pressburger, getting a chance to tell us why it is that he loves their films so much. And also, it's very well put together. If you get a chance to see it on a big screen, do because the clips look beautiful. Number 10 is Godzilla Kong, The New Empire. Still hanging on in there, still doing exactly what it did before. Crashy, bashy, smashy,

big hulky monsters, shouty bangy each other. Oh, by the way, I forgot, Paul Travers on Made in England, he says, magical couple of hours and now keen to see the Pal and Pressburger films I've missed, which is of course the point. There we go. So that's at 24. That's perfect. Godzilla Kong at 10 in America is number five. Number eight in the States, number nine here is Civil War.

I mean, it's interesting that Civil War, it's still in the charts. So people are still going to see it. The conversation seems to have died down a little bit. I expected that to carry on a little bit longer. I mean, I still thinking about it. I still think it's fascinating. I still think the weakest stuff is the relationship between the older and younger photographer. But I think as a depiction of America at the moment, it looks increasingly like a documentary. Love Lies Bleeding is at number eight.

Which I absolutely loved and I really want people to go and see it. We had an email, I think it was last week from somebody who saw it under the worst possible circumstances in which there was open hostility happening in the cinema. Go and see it on the big screen. She's a brilliant director and the performances are great and it's such a witty, smart, fun, Cronenbergian, scrungy, tactile movie. UK number seven is La Quimera. Mark from the Netherlands, I saw La Chimera a few weeks ago in a Dutch theatre, going in blind except for the words adventure, comedy and fantasy, as used by IMDB to categorise the film. I'm not sure that works particularly. Anyway, while those three elements are all present in the film to some degree, Italian men getting

angry at one another is never not funny. What I experienced first and foremost was a wistful, slow-burning study of loss, moral responsibility, and the connection between the old world and the new. Also, a motif in 2017's Call Me By Your Name. A few jarring moments aside, I felt entranced by the film's dreamlike, timeless atmosphere, but I found it frustratingly difficult to connect with Arthur emotionally. Also, a shower surely wouldn't have killed him, now would it? In the end, Lacuimera did not quite click with me, but some of its golden hour moods and images lingered in my mind for days afterwards. Up with red threads and downward statue heads,

Mark in the Netherlands. Thank you. Well, Alicja Rolvatsch has said that people might say the film is difficult. She said, fine, let it be difficult. All art shouldn't be easy. As far as the suit thing is concerned, and the fact that he hasn't had a shower, I was thinking, I haven't seen a suit look that scummy since Mickey Rourke in Angel Heart. Then Mickey Rourke is a similar thing. He's got a kind of a white suit that looks like he's slept in a gutter in it. I think Blacky Merri is really interesting and I have thought about it more and more since I saw it and I do love Josh O'Connor in it and he does disheveled rather brilliantly.

He owns that suit now. So, there was obviously something in it that he wanted to possess it as true. A Kung Fu Panda is at number six. Tarot's at five. Not press screen, so I haven't seen it yet. We'll catch up with it, honestly. Maybe when it comes out on video, you'll see it. Back to Blacks at four, so it's still hanging on in there. And if you remember the amount of hostility and negativity before it opened, and then actually it's done pretty well. I mean, people are carrying on and for a pop biopic, that's not bad at all.

Challenges is at number three here, number three in the States as well. Sexy tennis. I had a really interesting discussion with somebody yesterday. There was two people and one of them had found challenges challenging and the other one had found challenges absolutely thrilling. And I realized that I'm definitely in the absolutely thrilling camp because I do, again, Josh O'Connor. I mean, how amazing that Josh O'Connor has got a camera and challenges in the charts at the same time. And I think it's my favorite Luca Guadagnino film. And I think that

the final match in which all this weird stuff is playing out, you know, between the balls as it were, is just is really, really well done. I think it's witty and funny and I liked it a lot. The Fall Guys are number two in the States and number two in the UK as well. I told you that there was an article in Variety that said that they thought the reason it had underperformed at the box office was because the Fall Guy was not the familiar IP that they thought it was. And I was wondering whether that is the case or whether it's something else. And it's funny, as I said, when I saw The Fool Guy, I came out and immediately afterwards,

I saw a critic who said, well, that was terrible. And I thought, have we just seen the same film? And maybe it is a case of you get from the movie what you bring to it. I just thought it was a really smart popcorn movie. And I'm just surprised that it hasn't done better. I mean, yeah, it's number two, but it hasn't set the box office alight, and I imagine that it would do. Mason- Interesting. The top three here is the top three in America. Exactly the same challenges. The Four Guy and Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes is at number one. Anthony Wright says, I loved it. This could have been an action only film, but this is a very mature, character driven film with some thrilling action sequences

where you care about the characters and builds up nicely to its conclusion. It could have very easily been just a money making rip off of the first three, but no, this version is very respectful to the others. Mark didn't mention how the film addresses the question of apes and humans living together instead of one or the other dominating the same land and all the moral problems behind that. I'm looking forward to the next one. Someone who appears to be called And Writing. What Mark doesn't like about the first hour, I actually liked. It gave us time to invest in the setup and you really got a sense of the world. Something which doesn't happen often in big movies these days. I like that it took some time. It felt reminiscent of 80s movie making. On the whole,

I'm not a massive ape movie fan. I found the last three too gloomy, but this was a solid, well-crafted, slightly old-fashioned adventure movie. Okay. Well, that's interesting. I've spoken to other people who said that they like the slowness of the first hour and they like the world building. I am an apes movie fan, particularly the first five, because when I was growing up, they were biblical texts for me. I do like the most recent trilogy because of the darkness of it. I still think that the Apes films were at their best. I mean, Beneath the Planet of the Apes is completely mad with all the people pulling off their own skin and worshipping

the cobalt bomb. That's just really, really strange. Maybe it's that it's finding a different audience and maybe it's to do with expectations. But I said I did struggle for the first hour. And then I thought by the time it got to the end, it's a very good setup for the next film. I just thought it was a very long way. It was a long walk up the garden path before you get to the front door. Right. I quite like that imagery, I must say. So a long garden path, which often can be quite a pleasant experience, but you thought that maybe the garden path was too- No, I'll tell you what it is. I've been listening to a series, which is a series of interviews

with Paul McCartney about his songwriting, which I can't remember what it's called, but you've probably heard it. And the one that I just recently listened to was The Long and Winding Road, in which he talks about that metaphor and I think I've probably just stolen it from him. Mason- Fair enough. Good. And it's still from Paul McCartney. Okay. So that's the box office top 23, kind of, give or take, which means that we've got time now for the laughter left, Mark's favourite part of the programme, where all he has to do is sit there and grin and laugh appropriately. Here we go. See that smile on my face? Hi, hi Mark. Some good news. I went to the doctors this week for a checkup. She said you've got dangerously high blood pressure and short-term memory loss.

Well, at least I don't have dangerously high blood pressure. Child number three, thank you. Child number three was doing the crossword this week. This, this is me being child three. Oh, I can't get four down the opposite of Armageddon. Don't worry, I said it's not the end of the world. Okay, that was I think that was a slightly patronizing laugh. Anyway, things not going too well with the good lady ceramicist her indoors, I'm afraid. She said this week she was going to leave me if I made one more talking heads joke. She told me she was absolutely serious. And she was.

Come on. Have you got a wheel tappers and Shunters bell actually there on the table? No, there it is. It's a bit of merch. I thought you had like... Do you remember the Wheel Tappers and Shunters social club? When the guy had the bell that he would ring, ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. Do you remember that? No, we always turn that off. My parents wouldn't have that on.

Okay. All right. Well, coming up, reviews of Hoard and IF and our special guest, Vicki McClure. And you'll hear her very shortly. Is crypto perfect? Nope. But neither was email when it was invented in 1972. And yet today we send 347 billion emails every single day. Crypto is no different. It's new. But like email, it's also revolutionary. With Kraken, it's easy to start your crypto journey with 24-7 support when you need it. Go to kraken.com and see what crypto can be. Not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. See kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer for info on Kraken's undertaking to register in Canada.

Hello Kermode and Mayo listeners. We want to tell you about another show you're going to love. Dinner's on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson. You may know Jesse as Mitchell on Modern Family or for his Tony Award winning performance in Take Me Out on Broadway. Each week Jesse takes a different celebrity guest out to eat at a restaurant chosen just for them, no repeats. Past guests include Sophia Vergara, Bryan Cranston, Mandy Moore, Chelsea Clinton and

Ed O'Neill. More than 30 episodes are available right now, wherever you get your podcasts. OK, now this week's guest is Vicki McClure. Of course, Lowell Jenkins in Shane Meadows' This is England, DC Kate Fleming in Line of Duty. Now she produces and stars in Insomnia as Emma, her mother approaching her 40th birthday. Anyway, all the details are about to come when you hear from Vicki in just a second. It streams on Paramount Plus from Thursday and you'll hear from Vicki after this clip. Look, Hale.

What's that? I didn't book an appointment, Dr. Selvford. Come on. I'm fine. I'm just... I'm just not sleeping great. So here's one for you. Can insomnia run in families? Sometimes.

Depends what's causing it. Stress, probably. Well, call me if it carries on. There's no point being a martyr about it. There's medication to be had. And that is a clip from a new thriller series called Insomnia. It's on Paramount+. Its star and executive producer is Vicky McClure. Hello Vicky, how are you? I'm good, thank you. How are you, Simon?

Well, my voice is a little bit kind of rubbish, so I apologize for that, but hopefully you can still hear me okay. Hear you fine, I can hear you fine. It's very nice to have you on the show. I have to say, looking at you, I'm still slightly nervous that you're going to interrogate me in a really kind of aggressive style. Not today, day off. Day off, yeah. Well, it's a different job that you're doing here. Insomnia is a new six-part series. Tell us, can I ask you about being executive producer first? Can I ask you how this came into your world?

So basically, a couple of years ago, three, four years ago now, myself and my husband, Johnny Owen, decided to set up our own production company called Build Your Own Films with a view to being able to give people work and use the sort of address book that we've got, the context that we've made, the ideas that we've got,

me and Johnny met on a film that he'd actually written. So we've been in the industry a while now and it just felt like the right time to try and set up and do it for ourselves and try and give people opportunities that we know predominantly won't be getting those kind of opportunities because of where they live or because of the lack of experience that they've had or whatever it may be. We're both from working class backgrounds and we have a lot of passion about making sure those values are still there within the industry

behind the camera and in front of the camera. And so that's kind of where it came. And then it makes sense that if I'm on a production that I want to get involved in with the scripting and the crewing up and the casting and just the general running of that we involve build your own and so we work in association with these productions and then effectively I exec. Because I'm on set every day. It means that you can really have a hand in on everything, you know,

whether it's just morale, scripts, you know, casting, acting choices, all that kind of stuff. I just love to collaborate and I want people to feel that. So tell us about Emma Averill and her family and where we find her at the beginning of Insomnia. So we find her pretty content. She's a lawyer. She's got the opportunity to be a part of the firm and take on that role of owning, being part of the partnership. That's a big deal for her. She's the main breadwinner of the family. She's been with her husband Rob since they were teenagers. So that's a very loving relationship. She's got two kids.

Big old age gap. Her eldest is 18, Chloe, and then she's got Will, who's six. And all in all, she seems like she's got a pretty good life. And then she gets a phone call from her sister, who she hasn't seen for quite some time. Her mother is then brought into her life again. And we very quickly, because there's a lot of sort of flashback activity within Insomnia, to give you a real sense of where all this story comes from. We very quickly discovered that there's some very dark stuff that happened to them as kids, and that's going to come back to

haunt them. Mason- Sure. And this is also tied in with the fact that Emma is about to turn 40. Emma- Yeah. Yes. She's about to turn 40, which is when her mother, there was a prominent moment, I won't spoil it too much, that happened to Emma and Phoebe's mother when she was 40. And so that's on her mind, but we're very, you know, even in episode one, you can see that she's struggling to sleep and there is sort of certain behaviors that she's experiencing that is obviously very concerning for her, given she knows what she knows from her past and what happened to her mom and all that kind of stuff. She's petrified that that is coming to her, and she's about to turn 40 in the coming days.

I think one of the phrases, and this is in episode one, that there is a fear that the bad blood will carry on. I think that's a phrase that Emma's mother has used and says that the bad blood is going to carry on in you, which is even though it's a kind of a primeval, superstitious kind of instinct, you can sense that it is something that you'd be afraid of. Yeah. I mean, I would say like, you know know when you get, especially when you get a little bit older, you kind of go what behaviors or what illnesses or you know what should I be looking out for you know when you get to a certain age that runs in your family and it's something that's

commonly asked isn't it if you go to a doctor's and they say you know if you've got any experience of this in your family or any background of this and So it's not too strange for us to go into that headspace of, well, that's generic and it runs in the family. The fact that Emma's been said from a young age from her mother, like you've got the bad blood, that wouldn't have left her. We're here now, we've hit that spot where it's going to go wrong, it's going to go wrong now.

This is from a novel by Sarah Pimbra, who I think wrote the script as well, wrote the screenplay. She's described it as a female coming of age story, which is very interesting because she's obviously right, it's her story. So she knows what she's talking about. I think everyone else would concentrate on the thriller horror side of it, the insomniac side. But just can you explain a little bit about what she's getting at? Because you've mentioned about the mother and your sister, but a female coming of age story at the age of 40. That sounds... Yeah, I think, you know, I personally, when I turned 40 last year, I didn't fear it.

I don't feel any different. You know, I do remember thinking when I was in my 20s or late teens, like 40 is ancient and it is a long, long, long way away. It turns out it wasn't that long away and I don't feel ancient. You know, so there's this illusion when you're younger that 40 is like being like granny status, do you know what I mean? And so it is weird for some people,

I get that when they hit that point, they go, right, this is middle age. This is technically what that is. And I suppose that's where Sarah's thinking is. I also think what's kind of interesting about it, well, what I think is really interesting about Insomnio is it is kind of freaky. There is paranormal activity.

It is a thriller. It is quite scary. But what I think is the scariest part of it is it feels very real. And so there is this family drama that sort of like goes throughout these six episodes. And then amongst that you're all of a sudden delving into these paranormal thriller activities.

Then you wake up and you're having breakfast with the family. I remember The Hand That Rocks the Cradle and It's a Type Female and all those kind of films back in the day. I used to love all that kind of creepy, it feels like it lives within that world sometimes. Emma has the most forgiving, understanding, and loving husband who you've mentioned already, roleplay by Tom Cullen. I did find myself shouting at the laptop, actually,

as I was watching, particularly the first episode, why don't you just tell him, talk to your husband, you've been married a long time, he clearly loves you, you clearly love him, just tell him. I know. Why won't she tell him? It's been a long time. There might be some shame, some trauma. There's going to be stuff that people have got in their lockers, if you like, that they

might fear that if they tell their partner, especially after all those years, especially having been with him for as long as they have, they've now got two kids and they've fully sorted in their life, do not bring that up, it will disrupt what we've got. Do you know what I mean? Because it will all go away and it'll all be fine. So yeah, you might get a payoff there, you might be all right. I also love that, Aline, I think it's episode three. This is a very, very small point. I don't even know why I'm mentioning it, but your husband says, don't be late for the show. This is a kid's

show at the art school. Don't be late for the show. And everyone watching is going, she's going to be late for the show because I've seen this before. And, bit of a spoiler, you're not late for the show. So anyway, I just thought, okay, that's very good. I was the show because I've seen this before. And, bit of a spoiler, you're not late for the show. So anyway, I just thought, okay, that's very good. I was wrong-footed. How do you pronounce the name of your director, please? Oh, God, don't ask me that. I can't pronounce it.

There was a bit of a running joke that some people called him Berker, some people called him Borker. And I can't, I think even when I first met him, I was like, I was so nervous about getting it wrong, that I just avoided it all in all. But his first name is pronounced Berker and his surname, I can't pronounce properly. It's something like Siddhpursan. He's Icelandic. Yes.

Yes. And the reason I mentioned it is that I love Trapped, the Icelandic series, which he certainly was involved in one of the series for directing it. And it's interesting to get a bit of a scape, because there are bits, because a lot of this show is, they're night shoots, I imagine, and it's all very dark. And I just wondered whether that kind of Scandi noir feel was something that you were after. Do you know what? I have had such an amazing experience with this particular crew. Berke is obviously Icelandic. Our DOP, Anna, she's from Russia.

Our focus puller was Turkish. There was a real worldly feel on this job. And I think, cinematically, what Anna and Berke, and the camera team, and the editors have done with this show, is make it really slick. I mean, really slick. And even on the day, you can see the detail in which, you know, they were going into to make it... They could see what they were going gonna do with it in the edit,

put it that way. And it was a real joy to experience and ask questions and learn along the way. I knew from the get-go after meeting Berker and the team that he'd started to form, that visually this was going to be very impactful, very classy, very classy, and yeah, maybe that sort of Scandi vibe to it.

But somehow I just feel like it's very unique. I feel like there's just been a real sense of freedom from the likes of Paramount and Left Bank and everybody that's been part of the production have kind of gone, let them fly. And I think it's worked. Is it tough? We've just been thrilling all TV audiences with Trigger Point. Is it tougher? This is a non-acting question, as you're about to realize. Is it tougher playing a bomb disposal expert or being a mother of two, as you are in insomnia? I'd say they're both. I mean, yeah, possibly bomb disposal. I mean, for me as an actor, bomb disposal is a sort of more physical role, definitely. And emotional. There's so many

different worlds in which Lana has to set herself in. So that is a very tricky role. But I think it's all different. I think it's all different and it all has its challenges. And yet, I'm not working underground. I think we all have to also remember that as actors, we are super privileged and lucky to be picked up in a nice car and taken to get breakfast. It's hard work, but it's not that kind of graft. Mason Vicky, thank you very much indeed for spending some time with us today. Thank you. It was a lovely chat. Vicky McClure, and the show is on Paramount Plus from Thursday the 23rd of this month. When I was just listening back to that interview, do you remember when Gabriel Byrne came on the show to talk about, he came into the studio to talk about his film, and he was talking

about that quote, I think it was from Gabriel Garcia Marquez, about people having a public life, a private life, and a secret life. That's exactly where Vicky McClure's character is in this, which I think you're going to be reviewing. Jason Vale Yes, I haven't seen it yet. The reviews are in Bargo, so I'm watching. I'll review it next week. But I have to say, from that conversation, I'm actually really excited by it. It sounds fascinating. Jason Vale Yeah. And it's very much the secret life is the bit that she's not telling her husband, although she definitely should, although it would have made it less dramatic. Okay. So that's on the way. Mark will review that next week. What can we see this week?

Jason- Okay. Horde, which is the dazzling directorial feature debut from British filmmaker Luna Kahn-Moon, who was a guest on the show that I do at the BFI along with Hailey Squires and Sarah Lightfoot-Leon who are in the film. Sarah Lightfoot-Leon is a Dutch-born English-Spanish actress who along with Lily Bo Leach play older and younger incarnations of Maria. We first meet Maria as the young daughter of Hayley Squires Cynthia who is an eccentric character who clearly has some mental health issues and who believes in collecting and hoarding rubbish like treasure. She loves her daughter. She's created this magical, if extremely precarious world in which they both live in an apartment full of rubbish and litter and with little regard for conventions

like always going to school. Here's a clip in which they meet somebody from school after the daughter hasn't been there. not to be bullied by children as cruel as you who do not seem to understand how talented, unique and stupendous my daughter truly is. See, I've heard all about you. Open your mouth. Teeth like bomb dazes I should have known. Now I suggest you move out of my way before I make the bottom row look like tombstones and all." The absolutely brilliant Haley Squires. So the second half of the film then finds Maria as a fostered teenager, now living with Samantha Spears' Michelle. And then when Michelle's former foster child, Michael, played by Joseph Quinn, enters the picture, the chaos of those early childhood years kind of comes back. Last year, there was a film

that I reviewed by Adira Anshule called Girl, which had this portrait of a mother and a daughter living together in a secretive, almost fantastical world. There is a similar experiential feel about this. There's something very powerful and tactile about the mother-daughter relationship in the first section of the film, which for all the holding madness, it's kind of suffocating but also protective. The flat is full of rubbish and the rubbish is often festering and pungent. But through the eyes of the mum, that rubbish is treasure and it is described as a catalogue of love. It's a way of expressing love. And then later on, the bin-dipping practice of going and getting rubbish and bringing it in becomes a resurgence of that search for lost love.

There's also in the second movement of the film, I think something of the urgency of Andrea Arnold's film Fish Tank in the depiction of the teenage Maria. When I was interviewing the director, she cited Andrzej Zywowski as an influence, which of course is catnip for me because I love Zywowski's films. There's a connection here as well with Volker Schlondorf's The Tin Drum, which tells you something about the style of the film. Here's the weird thing. Some of the reviews have seen it as grim. I've even seen the word disgusting used in describing the world of the film. I didn't see it as grim. I've even seen the word disgusting used in describing the world of the film. I didn't see it as that at all. I mean, it is disturbing, absolutely. I mean,

there's a scene in which Maria and Michael kind of reenact a bullfight that's playing out on television, and it's provocative and edgy and crackling, and there's something very, very dangerous about it. But I also thought there was something moving and elegiac about it. I mean, there is real beauty amid all the rubbish and the dirt and the saliva and the things that are described elsewhere as grim. I think Hayley Squires and Lara Lightfoot-Leon are both extraordinary. I think Luna Camoon is a really major new voice in cinema. Yes, there are tough things about it, definitely, and it's a film which deals with difficult issues.

But there is this kind of transcendence in it that raises it above that. It's odd. I know, again, you'll say you get from a film what you bring to it. But there are moments of real magic in amongst all the chaos and the rubbish and the grit and the dirt, which I thought elevated it into something that's really haunted me since I first saw it a few weeks ago now. So it's called Horde. Some people will find it challenging, as they will with Like I'm Here, but I think that's a good thing. I think it's a really impressive piece of work. Is there a lot of saliva?

There's more saliva than you would want there to be, Simon. Okay. Let that be a warning. Okay, that's Horde. After the break, unless you're a Vanguard Easter, in which case there isn't one, what's the next review? If. Not that if. Not the Lindsay Anderson guns on the roof if.

As we have said last week. Okay, so that's on the way. Okay, the if review in just a moment. Evan in Dublin has been on Dear Wolfgang and Amadeus, following up on the recent thread of film names meaning different things depending on where you're from. While this is not film related, I do feel that it is Simon adjacent, a number of years ago. Yes, Mozart's magic flute came to Dublin. There were buses advertising the opera and banners outside the theatre. There was no doubt at all that the magic flute was coming to Dublin. The issue is that flute is a colloquial term for, well, a Mr. Happy. So if you were telling your friends that you were off to enjoy the magic flute of an evening, this could result in some raised eyebrows. Take any tongue and up with finding joy and

humour in the most childish of things. Evan, thank you very much indeed. In fact, a lot of the correspondence on this subject has come from Ireland and is clearly just sort of based on the linguistic difference between English as spoken here and English as spoken in the Republic of Ireland. May I just remind you that in, I think it was about 2006 or something, Kenneth Branagh, Chuckles Branagh, directed a film production of the said opera, which is called Kenneth Branagh's Magic Flute. Wow, that's right. Wow. That's a little bit self aggrandizing, isn't it? That must have looked great on the side of a bus. Okay. Well, in which case, they've had a big laugh with that one, I must say. Okay.

Okay. Well, in which, in which case they've had a big laugh with that one. I must say, okay. Correspondence of Kermade.com. We need to have Chuckles back on very soon because he hasn't been on for a while. We do. And ask him about his magic flute. You know what? Actually, that's a very good place for the interview to start. So last week we had John Krasinski and Phoebe Waller-Bridge on talking about the new movie that John has written and directed and stars in. It is now out and as we established and as Marcus just repeated, this is not a remake of The Lindsay Anderson, because that would have been a very strange marriage of two ideas.

I mean, it should be said that The Lindsay Anderson is if...and dot. And this is I F both capitalized. Okay. So if you haven't listened to the John Krasinski, Phoebe Waller-Bridge interview already, go back and listen to it because it sets the scene better than I could. But so this is live action animation hybrid. Um, Katie Fleming is B young girl who lost her mother and his father played by John Krasinski, who also directs rights producers and all the rest of it, is now having heart surgery. So she's very anxious. She goes to stay with her grandmother, played by Fiona Shaw, and when she's in her grandmother's apartment she meets a neighbor, played by Ryan Reynolds, Calvin, and they discover that

they both have the ability to see other people's ifs, imaginary friends. So that's what the if stands for. Here's a clip. So are there more of you? Say no. Yes. Oh, yeah, lots more. I mean, almost every kid has one. Had one. Had what? A friend.

An imaginary friend? If. We say if. Get it? Imaginary? Friend? But also like, what if? Like, anything's possible! Ooh, ouch. So, the voices, I mean, it's obviously because John Krasinski is well connected, so Steve Carrell, Phoebe Waller-Bridge who was the guest last week, Lou Gossett Jr., Emily Blunt, Matt Damon, John Stewart, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all.

I mean, he's an absolutely stellar cast list involved with the voices, all the famous friends, which is fine, although I think there is always a problem with that is that it can start to feel a little smug. I am slightly iffy about ifs and here's why. I think the central conceit is that these ifs, these imaginary friends have been abandoned, they've been forgotten by the children that imagined them in the first place. So now they're living these kind of lives like the Toy Story toys that have been abandoned and forgotten by Andy or whoever it is. And what happens is that our young heroine and Calvin are teaming up in order

to find them new children or perhaps reconnect them with their now adult former children. So make everything happy again. And The conceit doesn't quite work. The reason I think it doesn't quite work is partly because there is a bit of Toy Story in there and Toy Story did that better. Partly because there's a bit of Inside Out in there and Inside Out did it better. Partly because the film is about the magic of storytelling. It's about what do we do when we tell stories to ourselves, to other people? And I think, weirdly enough, the magic of storytelling is what's missing from if. Now, I don't mean that that doesn't mean it doesn't have charming moments. I mean, it is manipulative.

I think the word that, I think you and I were talking about it, it's exploitative in as much as it wants you to react, it wants you to cry. And I have to confess that about two-thirds the way through, I gave up and went, okay, fine. And I did. And there was a couple of moments when I welled up and there was a couple of moments when, because I'm a softie and I like crying in the cinema, it did move me. But I do think it's structurally unsound. I don't think it's a classic. I think it's fine. I think it's overburdened by celebrity a little bit. And I wanted it to be more magical than it was. Tell me, because you saw this before me, do you like it more than I do? I'm not saying

it's bad. I'm just saying I thought it was lacking in magic. What do you think? I was aware all the way through, as I mentioned in the interview, Gabby Roslin, who was watching it for Radio 2, was weeping throughout the whole film. So when you say it has an emotional impact, I was very much aware that that's absolutely right. And that's why I think it's sort of Toy Story 3 rather than Toy Story, because it felt like a children's tale for grownups. It'll be the grownups who are moved by this, because it's about lost childhood. Given how much I loved The Quiet Place, which was the last stuff John Krasinski created, I was slightly disappointed because I did feel as

though it was exploitative and it was a bit like, oh, you're not crying. Well, okay, here's a scene, this is going to make you cry. So there was an element of that. So I thought it was charming. I think it will have a power and a heft which is for me represented. I mean, you teared up Gabby Porth, it was really, really upset. And I think John Krasinski said she teared up three times during the interview. So just bringing up the subject of lost childhood, I think will be powerful. Therefore, I think the film will be powerful, but maybe I was just slightly disappointed because it wasn't five out of five, 10 out of 10. Well, it's not Inside Out and it's not Toy Story and it's not Toy Story 3. It is in that ballpark, but it's not on the same level as those. And I agree, I mean, I love John Krasinski.

He seems to be an all-round, decent, good inventor and he's been involved in some films that I really love. And I mean, that voice cast, Simon, is absolutely insane. I mean, it would be shorter to write a list of who wasn't involved in it. There is, the Keith joke, which I thought was going to become annoying has got a very good payoff. So there are good- But you do have to wait to the very end of the film. But it's, so there are good things in it. And I'll be interested next week to see if we get mail from people about what they thought about. I think I agree with you, it's not five out of five. And you kind of want it to be and it isn't.

Again, I was just also struck when I came out of the screening, people were discussing whether they had imaginary friends. And someone did and three of us didn't. And then I said, but when I put a certain jumper on, I was Peter from Germany. And someone did, and three of us didn't. And then I said, but when I put a certain jumper on, I was Peter from Germany. And everyone just thought that was just really weird. So that was all very strange. So maybe if it affects people like that, and if they grownups have conversations like that, maybe it'll find an audience which will make it a big box office hit. Yeah. I didn't have imaginary friends. If I imagined a friend, they'd go off with somebody

else. It's a very revealing statement. You should have a word with your therapist, I think, about that. Weirdly enough, that's what I'm doing this afternoon. All right. But imagine being ditched by your imaginary friend. What does that mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is that? Okay. You must tell us what, ask her that specific question. But as far as I can make out, because I did some work before doing that, obviously I did some work before interviewing

John and Phoebe last week, that psychiatry, they all say this is a good thing. Having an imaginary friend is a good thing. It's a positive thing. So therefore, but none of them address the issue of your imaginary friend going off with somebody else. That's a very special, commodian issue. My imaginary friend went off with Peter from Germany, as far as I can tell. So there we go. Plenty to discuss. Anyway, where do you step into this?

If you had an imaginary friend, whatever you think, it'll be interesting to hear about next week. It's your secret life again. It's the private life, public life, and the secret life. Correspondence to KoemanOMeo.com, that's the end of take one, a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Lily, Gully, Vicky, Zaki, Matty, and Beth. The producer was Jem, the redactor was Simon, Paul. Mark, your film of the week. Well, it has more spit than you'll be happy with, but horde. Oh, right. Thank you very much indeed for listening. Take two has landed adjacent to this one with lots more fabulous stuff.

It is both bonus and premium. See you soon.