Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour presented by NASCAR on FOX - Brad Keselowski Interview

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

In Episode 36 of "Kevin Harvick’s Happy Hour," NASCAR legend Kevin Harvick sits down with Brad Keselowski for an engaging and enlightening discussion. Together, they take viewers on a journey into the dynamic world of professional racing, providing an exclusive glimpse into the sport's inner workings. As their conversation unfolds, Kevin and Brad explore the highs and lows of Brad’s career, reflecting on his memorable victories and challenging moments. They share their thoughts on the recent Iowa race and the passion of NASCAR fans. Brad also reveals his pick for the best young driver in NASCAR today. Beyond the excitement of racing, Kevin and Brad delve into the deeper layers of the sport, discussing the intricate relationships that drive success on the track. Brad opens up about his experiences working with Dale Earnhardt Jr., his transition from Penske to Roush Fenway Racing, the importance of family, and much more. Don’t miss this action-packed episode, brimming with expert analysis and all the thrilling moments you crave from the world of NASCAR! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Next thing I knew, I was flying up to North Carolina, and my world just flipped. And I went from this kind of survival driver, right? I'm just literally 20-some years old trying to survive week-to-week, not knowing how you're going to get to a racetrack to having a legitimate ride. Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour, presented by NASCAR on Fox. We encourage our closers to follow us on YouTube or anywhere else on social media at Harvick HappyPod. and today we have a great interview guest. For me, this is probably one of the interviews that I've requested many times

and look forward to the most with Brad Kozlowski. To me, it's very intriguing with his departure from Penske and starting everything that he did at RFK and now to see them have success in winning races and Brad winning races himself. I've got a lot of questions, so let's get into it. Well, Brad, thanks for coming by. It's good to have you in the chair. It always makes the interview a little bit more personal when you have somebody that's not on the screen there.

You're looking into a Zoom call. But first, you know, thanks for coming. But let's get right into Iowa. I think as I looked at it, I looked at it from the repave and I'm like, oh, man, this could be a mess. But the race was okay. And what from your perspective was the weekend like from the repay, from the car? how was the first event in Iowa? You know, whenever they repave a track,

there's always a lot of unknowns. And, you know, the way they decided to repave Iowa was kind of like nothing I'd ever seen before. We've seen, you know, and Kevin, you remember when Pocono did like the grip strip. So it's not uncommon for them to repave like one particular lane, but for them to do like half of two lanes on both corners, they're just really through everybody kind of for a loop.

And so, you know, what's always interesting about repaves, it's just how dynamic the track is to me. You know, you go out for a practice session and, you know, your first lap on the racetrack, you're spinning out. And then by the end of the race, like I was so tight, I could barely drive the car.

And so just that migration of how you drive the car and how much it changes, it's almost like a dirt track in a sense, you know. So it ended up being a good race, I feel like, because both lanes ended up kind of working and they came in. But when we started the weekend, it was pretty much like,

hey, I can barely make a lap. And by the time it was done, it was like, well, I can barely make a lap, but not because I'm about to spin out, but because I'm going to blow the right front tire off this car. So just a huge shift in the race as it goes. And, you know,

I think that's one of the things that I try to explain to people who are fans of other forms of racing. They're like, well, you guys just, they're like two turns. And it's just an oval. You're like, yeah, but the tracks are dynamic.

Yeah. You know, where IndyCar, Formula One, whatever it might be, like, the track's pretty much the same unless it rains. But in NASCAR, it's like, oh, we ran 10 laps in this lane. Now that lane's not any good anymore. Let's move to the next one. And just the technique change of how to make that all work is really difficult. Yeah. And I've heard, you know, several different opinions on whether they should have repaved the track.

I mean, I'm of the opinion. They shouldn't have touched it. They should have just patched it for the first one just to get through it like we did at North Wilkesboro. because Iowa was such a, the dynamic of Iowa was so unique, the way you could start on the bottom or the middle and then work your way to the top and you had options. But I'm of the opinion now. You need to just dig it up and repaid the whole thing because it looked,

it looked pretty rough from the in cars that we saw this weekend. So it looks like those patches, basically a repave, the patches in and off of them are pretty rough. Yeah, getting into turn one for sure. The car would jump and bounce. And I'm with you, you know, sometimes you've got to just reset and redo the whole track. What's interesting about Iowa is to go back to the history of it. You know, when it was built in, I guess, 05-06, it was actually made by a paving company.

So it was a paving company that owned the track that built the track. And, you know, interesting because to me, it had actually held up pretty well for almost 20 years. But, you know, these services, I kind of joke about it. And you remember when Richmond used to do the sealer and all that? You know, when you watch any other sport, like when the field's pristine, you're like, oh, that's a good field. But like a racetrack, it's almost the opposite. Like you want it to not look good. Like you want it to have like some scars and character to it, right?

Because that puts the drivers in a position where I think their kind of expertise really shows up. So it's like when somebody says, well, they should repave it. Like initially you're like, oh, is there anything we can do? You remember Atlanta? Like maybe we could like put some seams. You're like paste in this thing together. Yes. Put some patches in.

But eventually you get to a point where like, all right, stop. You just got to redo it. And I think that's probably where I was. Yeah. And I think from a fan perspective, it put on a good enough show to say, hey, we probably need to go back there. But from a market standpoint, I would assume from the teams, that's a great addition to the schedule from a sales standpoint and marketing. Yeah, you know, I think our sport goes through these kinds of ebbs and flows where I have to be careful of what I say here.

don't get too much trouble, Captain. But I think we go through these ebbs and flows, though, where we're like, hey, let's go to big market X, whatever that might be, L.A., Chicago, New York, you know, pick your kind of big market of the day, or maybe it's international. And we get kind of excited about the idea of competing in these markets that, you know, they might have 10 million people living in the city or whatever it might be. And sometimes we kind of just lose side of the fact of why don't we just serve the fans we already have? Yeah.

And, you know, I think it takes a balancing act. And what I saw in Iowa, and I loved it, by the way, was fans that they wanted us there. Passionate. Yeah, passionate fans are like, you know, we've been waiting my entire life. And I did an autograph signing Friday and there were people that were, you know, hey, I live two hours away. This is the closest track to me. And I've waited my entire life for there to be, you know, a cup race close by. And I finally have it.

And it means the world to me. And those are the fans that come back. Like they don't just go over one year just to see. see what this is all about with it, but they love our sport. And I just think that sometimes we forget about that. You know, we're kind of chasing the new shiny thing of whatever market it might be. And the other thing I really liked about Iowa, and I'm not from anywhere close to Iowa, but I'm from Michigan, which is considered the Midwest.

But all the sponsors that sponsored the race were kind of brands that you didn't see anywhere else. Yeah. Yeah, Hyvie or Casey's or, you know, Iowa corn, like, you don't see those anywhere else. And it's always great to bring kind of fans that are underserved, but also brands that are underserved because that really serves for me, the business model of our sport. So, and then kind of lastly, you know, one of the things that I look for in a great event is does it have the support of the community, not just the fans, but kind of the government or whoever. Do they know you're there? Yeah, do you know you there?

And when the governor shows up for your race, like, that's a big deal. That tells me the community wants you there. And I just have this simple kind of philosophy in all things in my life. Like, go where you're wanted. And it was clear Iowa wanted NASCAR. Yeah. And I think, you know, the Iowa to Los Angeles market, right? Those, we always try so hard to be in Los Angeles.

And it's not, it's not the same reception that you get when you go to a place like Iowa. It's just a, it's a much different. it's a much different reception because the fans are there. And Kevin, I always kind of parlay that into the conversation of those big markets, they seem to like us a lot better when we go to the small markets that are crazy about us. You know, there's that little bit of kind of,

I don't know, it's like Jaded X lover or whatever it is where they like you a lot better when they see you're dating another girl. Yeah. You know, and I always feel that way. So it's like you can go to those big markets. This is just my opinion.

Like you can go to those big markets, but you've got to go to them for like, one or two years and then leave them leave that's right one or two years then leave like you got to get in and get out and then go back to the places that are crazy about you and kind of like build it back up yeah and i look back at the clash and when we went to los angeles that first year if we'd have left the first year it would have been awesome it would have been fantastic and wherever you would have taken it next would have been over the top because they would they would have been excited and we went back the second year still could have got away with it it was okay third year was

was too much and and so 100 from from from From a, I guess from a team owner business perspective, what is your opinion of the international? Like, I look at Montreal and I know we couldn't get that all worked out with everything that happened with Montreal for the cup side of things. But every time I ever went to Montreal from an Xfinity standpoint, packed. Fans very passionate. Always had some Canadians in the stands. Mexico City should have went one year. That's a perfect case study.

And not go back. But how do you guys view that from a business standpoint internationally? Well, I like international races to some degree. I mean, obviously, it's more expensive to go there. And, you know, the problem with Canada right now is they've got the jock tax thing, which from a business perspective is a killer, right? You know, when you pay, like anything else, when you pay an exorbitant tax, you know, you lose a lot of money.

And it's that money, basically, you have to go back and you have to charge, whether it be the fans or the partners to try to recoup it. And it's just, it's really difficult to make a business case out of that. But outside of the business case, you know, I look at the market. and I think it's a good to go to those places for one or two years and kind of take a break, then come back. But I also look at it as, you know, the challenges of kind of what irks me about it is, I wish when we went to these international events that they were ovals.

Yeah. You know, what I liked, one of the things I liked about Iowa, and I'm just going to throw all kinds of flowers in Iowa because I thought it was great. But one of the things I love about Iowa, was a new track on the NASCAR Cup Series circuit. And for the first time in what feels like forever, it was an oval. Like,

I feel like the last half a dozen new tracks we've added, like, a road course. And like a road course is kind of like the easy thing to do, right? To add a new road course to the schedule, there's plenty of them. It's not really hard to make one. But to add an actual oval to the schedule. And if you could do it internationally, I think would be huge,

whether that be, you know, some kind of scenario like, you know, a temporary course like we had at LA for the Clash or whatever it might be. But if we could do a real oval internationally, to me, that's the holy grail. And I think that would connect with our fans and our partners and everybody in a way that tells the story of NASCAR in the best way possible. It'd be a great way to kind of create that summer break.

You could have some sort of stadium event in wherever, Wembley Stadium, Mexico City. wherever that might be. But I think that there needs to be some sort of break in the middle of the year for the employees. You guys as owners need to get together and say, okay, we need to take one week off. Everybody has to lock their doors so that those employees can say, I'm going on vacation. But that's for another day. Well, now let's talk about it. You know, I sit in in a lot of those types of meetings.

And I pushed really hard for that this past fall, winter, whatever. it was of off season like guys we need to do an industry shutdown because we have the two-week olympic break which i think is great it's perfect let the olympics have their heyday you know there's great stories everybody loves the olympics it's great for our sport to get a break and to not compete against the olympics everybody wins um and so you know i made a really hard push to the other team owners of hey let's let's all get together and shut down just we'll all just kind of lock our doors for a week or two all the employees go home, go on vacation. You need it.

Go spend some time with your kids, refresh, and kind of reload for what is the final half of the season or the second half of the season. Everyone will look at it. And unfortunately, that kind of fell on some deaf ears. But I think it's something that our sport needs to really, really consider. And, you know, it's one of those things where all the team owners have to do it. Like, it can't just be like half of them or it doesn't work. And it's really hard to get all.

the team owners into that kind of state of mind. But, you know, probably the biggest reason why I think it's important is, you know, our sport really relies on kind of this ambassador type relationship, whether it be with our fans or whether it be with kind of the junior level. And, you know, we need those people. And it's more than just me. We need the whole garage area to be in a good mindset and to not be burn out so that it tells our story to those kids that might be in the stands or want to be a racer one day or to the fans that are coming to where, you know, when they have engagements with our crew members or our drivers or whoever it might be, that those are good engagements and not the, man, I've been on the road for 30 straight weeks

and I'm tired engagements, you know? And I can't tell you how many stories I hear from fans where I'll meet them. And I bet you've probably heard these stories too. And they'll tell you a story like, hey, man, a couple weeks ago, I got tickets for the race. And I was in the garage area. And I met a couple of your crew members. And they were so nice to me. And man, that just made my day or my son's day or my wife's day or whatever it might be.

And that's just the best experience. And that's why I'm back. That's why I came to another race. And you're like, man, I'm so glad to hear that. Like, you know, our team members are ambassadors for our sport too. And I just think we lose sight of that sometimes. Yeah. And, you know, it's the simple things, right?

Like you go into the racetrack and all the team guys go into the same restroom. You have an attendant at that door. Pocono does it the best. They have an attendant at the door. It's always clean. There's always paper towel. There's always toilet paper. And you think about that stuff and these guys and gals that go every single week.

And they're gone for 20, 30 weeks in a row. That kind of stuff starts to matter. They will sleep in their own hotel room. The little things mean a lot. The little things mean a lot. And sometimes we forget about the team. guys and gals in the garage and they're they're really like you say they are part of the ambassadors for our sport in what they do and so it's um i'm glad to hear you say that i'm glad that you're working

towards trying to try to those guys a guaranteed weekend off because it would mean a lot for their families and and that that you know that that that uh perception that they have towards who everybody's working towards and making it right for them too by making it better for they deserve it But you mentioned the financials of going to Canada and you mentioned all the other things. Where are we at with the charter stuff? Are we getting close? Are we getting close to the end of the road? What in the world is happening?

Well, you know. I thought it was going to be done. You've got different stakeholders. And the answer is going to be different. If you put every stakeholder in this cherry, I think you'd get a different answer. Yeah. And I can't pretend that I speak for everybody else. But I can give you my point of view, right?

My point of view is that, you know, the sport's very expensive. You know, we have a lot of inflation-related matters that are, you know, hitting NASCAR just as they're hitting everybody else. And, you know, the cost to operate a team has never been more expensive. The next-gen car came in and, you know, the car's a more expensive car. There's no way around it. It has to be because it's built by third parties and those third-party. they have to make a profit to be in business where when the teams manufactured the majority of the car, they didn't do it for a profit, not the manufacturing aspect at least.

And so you have to cover that overhead of margins and inflation, which strove some of the costs of the sport. So do you ever think there's a road where the car is cheaper? No, because nothing gets cheaper, right? Nothing ever gets cheaper. The challenge that we have in my eyes is not a cost challenge. for the most part. I meant just cheaper from how the team operates. That was really the big sale.

The big sell. It did. In fairness, it did. If you look at head counts in the teams, the head counts went down generally 10 to 20%. The problem is inflation hit everybody by another 20. So you kind of nullified all of those gains. And then the car costs more.

By the time you're done, it's more money. But I don't know if it's necessarily fair to blame that on the next-gen car. I honestly think the next-gen car itself was a wash between the difference of third-party versus, you know, internal manufacturing. I think just inflation itself has been, this is my opinion, it's been the killer here. And so that drives the charter negotiation because the teams are just, you know, they're screaming like we have a, you know, a huge deficit with our budgets. And so, you know, that kind of puts the whole charter negotiation in this unique place where the teams are just trying to figure out, how are we going to pay for things? And, you know, the new

TV market, and that's changing almost every day, has put another kind of wrench in that because, you know, the more we move off of broadcast and we move the streaming services and all these other things, the harder it is to kind of get the partners engaged the way we want to. to get them engaged. But that comes at a tradeoff because now there's more money. Like the streaming services, you know, they pay the teams or NASCAR more money, and that transcends all the way down to the teams or passes through. So there's all kinds of tradeoffs.

At the end of the day, the conversation is mostly about how do we create a stable platform to where the teams aren't losing money? And specifically how teams that are well managed don't lose money. And there are well-managed teams that are losing money. and that's a problem. And, you know, NASCAR is doing, you know, a lot of work to try to help those teams, but it's kind of like, I feel like ultimately

the challenges of the team charter negotiation, they ultimately kind of first principle make their way up to teams trying to be, well-managed teams trying to be solvent. And right now that's not the case in too many instances. So some teams are, you know, cash flow positive, but a lot of them are. Do you ever see, is it, would it be,

better for your team to have three cars than it is two where does that model work what's the best what's the best car count yeah three is definitely the best model yeah you know four you start to i'm going to get really nerdy on this you start to get into these really expensive schna costs which is you know basically your front office where you have all these people that you got to you know put into service it and three you can kind of use the same corporate structure as you can use for two when you get to four you have to really grow your corporate costs and it's just really hard to be successful that way financially at least so you know uh when barney visser came in uh and he came in and really put poured the coals on there with his deal with toyota and in his deal with joe gives

he really showed the competitive advantage to being smaller like more focused and smaller interesting uh but he did so you know losing a lot of money yeah right so the challenge that i i see is when you get to three or four teams, you lose kind of focus with your competition group, but you get better with your finances specifically at three. So I think three is kind of that sweet spot. So who's the best young driver right now that you would put in that third car? If just hypothetically saying RFK, like what would be the best fit for your company? I think right now the best young talent in the garage or, And kind of, I don't even know if it's fair to say in the garage, but that I see at least, that could actually drive a cup car is probably, uh, Conor's village.

I, you know, just when I keep my eyes open and I watch him race, he's the one that I, I see has the most potential. Um, you know, you've got underneath him, there's some really good, I think, generational talent with Cruz and all those other, but he's not old enough. Right now is he's 16 or 17. 17. 17. Uh, so he's not old enough. But right now, I think if you told me, Brad, go put a young driver in, make him a star, and here's all the money to do it. He's the guy.

So he was racing go-karts with Keelan. And I recognized that he had that generational talent to be able to do the things that he's doing in a car right now. And I went and asked his dad one day. And I said, what's your plan here? What are you going to do with Connor? He said, well, I think we're going to go run some sports. Beck meadas and I'm going to make him go to school. And I told him my time out.

Time out. That's the best decision that you could make with what he can do in this cart. He's like, you really think so? So we went out and we got him, you know, the test with silver hair to go up and drive the car. And he went up and William Byron was there the day before. He went one second

faster than William Byron did at VIR. And the Silver Hair team was like, wow, this is unbelievable. He's a generational. You know, he was driving a race, and then he's gone on to do all the, all the things that he has done. He reminds me a lot of Ligano. Yeah.

He's raced a lot, too. And I think it's, I think it's interesting, too, because Conor Zillich, Brent Cruz, they went over into the European carding system. Zane Smith spent some time over in, I think for these kids, it really challenges that are at that high level and realize they have that talent. It puts them so far outside of their comfort zone. And they have to learn how to tread water in a way that they never have and survive. And, you know, they come back and then they start just to blossom like they've seen, seen those, those kids do. So it's going to be fun.

If they survive it. If they survive. That's the key, right? And it's tough. And you don't burn them out. Yep. Yep. And turn them off, you know, so bad that they don't want to race anymore.

Yeah. I look at that European carding system and hands down the toughest. environment for kids to race in. Expensive, but you know, toughest. And if your kid can survive that, you can come back to the States and we could probably make something out of it. Yeah. I want to get back

to kind of some of the things that you've done throughout your racing career. I find it, I know that you were racing the family truck. Tell me how you got in

and I know everything that happened with Dale Jr. There's, you know, Xfinity car at the time. Tell me about Dale. Did Dale call you? How did all that go down to get into his car and wind up driving there? I don't know. I mean, I feel like I was really lucky. You know, I was competing in the, what's now in NASCAR's Finney Series.

Then it was the Bush series with a really backmarker team. And, you know, at that time, this was circa 0607. You'd go to a race, and there'd be like 25, 30 cup drivers. And they weren't just cup drivers, but they were like cup drivers in cup team equipment, right? So at that point, like just making the show was like a pretty good deal if you were not a cup affiliated team or driver, right? And I started like just making the shows. Now, I would run like 35th or 40th. Like I was like the finish.

But I was making the show, right? And I'd have a practice session where I'd be in the top five and things like. And enough to like people would notice it, right? like, well, this doesn't add up, especially with the equipment. And it was enough to get some attention. And, you know, Michael Walter wanted to put me in his Xfinity car. And this would have been like the summer of 07. And it didn't come together for a number of reasons.

And ultimately, you know, probably my biggest break was when Ted Musgrave got suspended after a truck race in Milwaukee and I filled in for him in Memphis in a truck race. And I ran really well, sat on the pole, let a lot of laps,

had a shot to win. And it just felt like all these different things kind of came together. And, you know, I remember I was on an airplane flying back from Memphis and I was flying commercial.

And I landed in, I was living in Detroit area. And I landed in Detroit. And I landed in Detroit. And I, I turned my phone on because it was on whatever airplane mode or whatever, and I had a voicemail from Dayornhard Jr. And I remember thinking, this is the coolest thing ever. And I didn't get to talk to him that day because the way my flight was, he was, you know, racing by then. But

I think I talked to him on a Monday or Tuesday after. And next thing I knew, I was flying up to North Carolina. And my world just flipped. And I went from this kind of survival driver, right? I'm just literally 20-some years old trying to survive week to week, not knowing how you're going to get to a racetrack to having a legitimate ride and kind of, you know, establishing myself. And that whole time period in my life, like, you know how you have different time periods in your life that you just remember and that you're like, you almost want to live it again?

That was it for me. Like, that was like the best few weeks in my life. What's it like working for a young Deller and Hart, junior yeah it was it was a good influence yeah yeah no i mean he had some really good dale has these like one-liners of wisdom you know they're like you'll have a whole conversation with him and you're like i'm not sure where this is going or i'm not sure i hear it and then he'll sneak in like a one-liner of wisdom and you're like damn that was actually really good and uh he had a couple one-liners of wisdom that uh are a little less pg yeah that he

he told me at that time and uh that really stood up out to me about how to race and how to be successful and how to, you know, get yourself with the right team. And, you know, it was good. You know, he was in a unique time in his life. If you remember, that was right when he was leaving DEI to go to Hendrick. So his plate was really full. And he was really stressed. And, you know, at one time to me, at one time he said to me something that I was so, I'm so proud of and that, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm thankful that he kind of had the courage or guts to say it, but I probably didn't recognize that at the time.

But he's like, man, and I won't be able to get his quote exactly right. That was one of the toughest times of my life. And, you know, I had all the things going on the Cupside, and the Xfinity team wasn't going to make it. You know, it was wrecking every week. We didn't have cars. We were losing a lot of money. And he says, man, you saved that team.

and made it something that lived. It wasn't going to live. And he just told me how thankful he was for that. And, you know, with all the other stress he had in my life, that that got kind of took off his plate, so to speak, right? And became something that could just live for him and his family and function. And I'm really proud of that. And that meant a lot to me when he said.

Did you have to drink your first beer with Dale? I did. You did. Yeah, I did. So, you know, before I got the Miller deal, you know, I didn't drink at all. You know, I grew up in a household that didn't drink. And it wasn't like, you know, I don't want to claim some wholeer than now.

It wasn't like a super religious thing. But my parents just didn't drink. Like it just wasn't a thing. Now, some of their friends did. But like, there was no alcohol in our house growing up that I remember. And so I just never really had an interest in it. My dad was fairly strict. in the sense that, you know, I have an older brother.

And my older brother was kind of like the hair to the throne in a lot of ways to my dad. And so that gave him almost a license with me to be like really, really strict. And growing up, he was like, if you want to drink, if you want to date, if you want to do any of those things, go ahead and do it. But just no, I'm not helping your race at all. Like, it was just flat out. a deal. Like, so there was no drinking. There was no dating. There was none of those things because, like, I wanted to race. And my dad was very clear. Like, you even touch any of that stuff. Done. Done. I like that. And so, uh, and I don't think he meant it in a mean way. It was probably

actually really good for me. Like, if you're going to do this, you're going to be 100% focused or we're not doing anything at all. I'm not wasting my time with this. Like, and, uh, you know, it actually served me really well. So until, I'm telling you that story, because until I got to be, you know, racing with Dale and kind of off on my own, like, no of that was even an option. Right. For me, right? Because I couldn't race without my dad at least helping me in some way. Well, I think that's a, that's a pretty unique story. And I think that as you go through your career, did you ever have a path that led from junior motorsports to Hendrick? Was there ever that conversation because that seems like the you know the path that that goes that direction yeah i uh i did and

you know um life takes in these you know mysterious turns right i uh you know i did the whole contract with rick and to take over the five car and i still have the contract by the way i i keep it in a safe my my hendrick motorsports cup contract and uh the way that went down and at the time i was jaded now i'm not just to be clear i'm not jaded about now i you know i'm not jaded about now i you know It worked out great. He's in a good place. Obviously, Rick Hendrick is. I'm in a good place.

So it's not like a, you know, hey, I'm here to bash him. But yeah, I had a contract with Rick to take over the five car in 2010, part time and full time in 2011. And I signed it in July of 08. I really didn't want to announce it. And I told Rick Hendrick that at the time because I was competing in the Xfinity series. and I knew that that would what's always tough and you probably know this is when you tell a team what the end is

like they start to fragment really quickly right and I knew that at that time like oh and so I didn't want that kind of out there because I knew that it would my infinity team would fall apart and all that's like let's just we just sit on this and when the time's right we'll do an announcement sometime middle to end of 2009 that was kind of the plan

So we finish up the 08 season. I ended up third in points, won a couple races. Like, this is going to be really good. I'm pumped about it. I go run the cup car, a couple races. And they didn't go great. I ran the fifth team at Hendrick, which at that time you could do if you were, you know, a young driver. And I went to Vegas and I crashed out and went to Dover and I didn't make the show.

And it was like, ugh. It was kind of not a great start to 2009, but it was in a fifth team. Yeah. In my Xfinity car, I didn't have a great start either, and it was kind of like a rough patch. And then Mark went out and won that Phoenix race in the spring of 09. And I'm like, oh, this isn't good. But I like, I got a contract. It would be fine.

And then I went out and ran the cup race until today next week. I won the cup race. I'm like, ooh, all right. I should be okay. Now, right, I've got a cup win under my belt. like, you know, my contract pressures a lot less. And I feel really good that in the right circumstances, I can be successful in Cup. And then, you know, I got a call from Rick and he said, hey, you know, I want you to come meet with me.

I like, yeah, sure, where, when, you know, whatever. I mean, he says, yeah, can you come to my house? Which I thought was really interesting. Like, yeah, sure. I love to see this guy's house. I want to met with him at his house, which was indebted. downtown Charlotte. And he says, hey, you know, congratulations on the Talladega win. And, you know, that's really great for you and your family and, you know, kind of solidifies you as, you know,

a guy that can compete at this level. And, you know, I'm just like, yeah, this is great. You know, I'm just soaking up. And he says, I wanted to talk to you about something. I'm not going to move forward with your contract. Like, oh, okay. This is a, this is a big 180. He's like, yeah, you know, Mark, Martin means a lot to me, and he's running well, and I think he wants to stay, and I'm going to give him every opportunity to stay. And that means there's no room here for you. And maybe there is somewhere else, and I'll try to help you get a deal somewhere else. And, man, he's telling me all this, and I'm like, devastating, right? You know, that obviously Hendrick has premier equipment and, like, not what I wanted to hear, right?

Right. And, you know, I went through that summer of 2009, just kind of searching for what was next for me. And, you know, inevitably, the Penske thing came together, which was great. And I landed and I'm fine. But it was a, that was an interesting stretch in my life. Yeah. And I think that the Penske pieces, obviously, we all know the success that you had there. And you get to the end of that road to have to make the decision at Penske.

Yeah. All right. Yeah. Do I want to jump into the team owner? How did that whole scenario time out for you and finally say, okay, I'm done at Penske? I'm going to jump in with both feet at RFK. Yeah. Well, if you go back to the start of my relationship with Penske, this is one of my stories

that I tell people. And I'm always afraid I'm going to come off like a pure jerk. But the reality is this was how I felt. And I was just open about it. I met with Roger in the summer of 2009 after things kind of went down with Rick Hendrick. And he said, hey, I want you to come drive for me. Come drive the 12 cup car. And, you know, I'll give you a two-year contract, whatever it is, and we'll go.

And I told him, I'm not interested. At that time, the 12-cup car was, I don't know, 30-something in points. Yeah. And a lot of that blame was being placed on David Stremery, who was a driver. And I didn't think that was really all that fair. I didn't think the cars were very fast. I thought that was really hard for him to manage. And I looked at it and said,

honestly, this isn't a great opportunity, Mr. Penske. And, you know, the only way I'll do it is if I can do it my way. And I kind of gave him terms. Like,

here's how I'm going to do it. Like, I want control of the crew chief. I want control of, I want an expedite team that runs full time. So I have a depth chart of people to pull from. And I basically made a, list of demands for him. And none of them were like salary. It wasn't like, hey, you know, I want a

bunch of money to do like no, none of that. Like that wasn't. All I cared about was can we win? Can this thing turn into a winner? And you know, Mr. Penske looked at me like, you're 24, at that time might have been 25. You're 25 years old. I'm a racing legend and champion. You're not going to tell me what to do. And you basically just like, get out here. Yeah. I'm like, all right. Well, again, I'm not going to do it if it's not the right. deal and this is what's going to take to be the right deal. And I walked out of that office. Wow. And so my agent was with me and my agent was kind of like, I can't believe you did that. Like, well, I mean, honestly, this isn't a good deal. Like, why would I take it? I mean, I don't need a bad

deal. And there was other opportunities that were kind of peripheral. Like, I'll go work on those. And so I remember, I was at my friend, T.J. Major's house about two months later. And I got a call from my agent. And he said, hey, Brad, yeah, I just talked to Roger Penske. He agreed to everything. You asked for. I want to know if you'll come sign it right now. I, wait, what? How did we go from this to that? Right. And next thing I know, we had the 22 Xfinity team. We changed a lot of the team. We even changed the paint scheme on the car, like the entire list. And that deal, came together. I'm like, wow, this is great.

Just how you wanted it. Yeah, it's exactly what I wanted, right? And it took some time to turn that team around, but it ended up getting it to be something great. And, you know, I think a lot of people think of Penske and where it is today, probably that are listening, but Penske at that time was not in a real good place. And now it's in a great place. And I'm proud of that ride.

And as you kind of fast forward, you know, when I left, like, I wanted to keep going I kind of got to that same spot with Mr. Penske. I'm like, hey, here are the things we need to do for this to be a team that can be successful for the next one to two decades, right? Beyond even when I'm driving, like, we need to make these changes. And I kind of fell into that same place with Mr. Penske where it was like, hey, you know, you're 30-some years old. I'm 87 years old.

I know what I'm doing and, you know, this is the way it's going to be. And I don't really want you to tell me what to do. And I just didn't feel right. I didn't say it right. Yeah. And, you know, I really wanted a chance at team ownership, which wasn't as big of a part of staying at Penske, but it was a big part to me. I wanted to be able to steward a team. Yeah.

You know, and ownership's part of that, but that's not all of it, right? And I just didn't feel like I had that opportunity or ever would have that opportunity. And knowing that at some point your career is going to end. You know, I just couldn't see myself like, and you know, Kevin, how it is. Like, I couldn't see myself in the shoes of one of these guys that kind of shows up to the racetrack. And they're like, yeah, I used to compete here. And that's it. Like, and not have any meaningful role in the industry.

And I was really wanting that. and didn't see a path to it at Penske. And that kind of opened my eyes and ears to other opportunities. And the one here at what's now RFK came up and it was kind of a no-brainer for it. Yeah. And you guys have made just such a great run at it. And I think that your leadership and guidance through all of that has put RFK back on track. And you guys have put the cars in Victory Lane.

And I think all that is very noticeable, especially within the industry. And I think that it seems like such a big leap. for everybody outside of the industry, but I think in the industry, having that guy that knows how to lead a team that can get in and out of the car, but also be able to compartmentalize those things and also lead the people inside the walls of the company

on a day-to-day basis is pretty impressive. And I think you guys have done a great job. So how many years is that? I mean, how many years do you think you can drive it? You know, Kevin, I told somebody this last week, somebody asked me, how many more years you want to go? I said, well, I left the Coke 600 thinking if I had five more laps, I could win the race.

You know, and the rain came. And I got out of the car after the race and said, I have 10 more years left. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then, you know, the week or two before I was in North Worksboro, an all-star race. And I think we ran next to last. Yeah.

And I was like, I can't do this any longer. Like next week, I'm out. You know what I mean? It's next-gen racing. Yes. Like, and so you go through this emotional. roller coaster. You know, health-wise, I feel great.

So, you know, it's not really a health thing. It's really a mental thing of how long can you endure the emotional roller coaster. And, and, you know, one of the big kind of factors for me is, and I'm sure there's definitely something you can relate to. Like, I want my kids to see me winning races. Yeah. And I don't know. You know, there's a lot of people that say when a race car driver has a family that,

oh, you know, he loses, you know, a little bit of his edge or whatever. It might be like, to some degree, I almost feel the opposite. Yeah. Like, you want to feel like a winner to your kids. Yes, I want to feel like a winner to my kids, right? And winning at Darlington or this year and having my family there, oh, it's just. We could see the emotion. Oh, that's a whole different emotion.

So awesome, right. And you've been there 100%. And I want that for my kids as a core memory because I had that with my dad. Yes. When my dad won races when I was a kid, I mean, I remember being in Victory Lane. I remember being like, I was, I'm not going to have been that tall, like jumping up and down and excited. I want that for my kids.

And, you know, I think that connects to how long I want to race because my youngest kid is, you know, seven months old. So I mean, yeah, he was in Victory Lane. But you can remember that Victory Lane. Like so that that almost serves as like the opposite of what I think the stereotype is, is like, I want to go longer for my kids. Because I want, especially my youngest son, I want him to be in Victor Lane with me one day. Well, I love it. And you're doing a great job. So we got two more questions.

Okay. I know I talk long. So you probably, you're like, you had this holistic question. I don't get into all these. That's typical. I write all these questions because I never want to leave anything out and you only use half of them. But two consistent questions that we have on this show. What was your first car? What was it? Where is it? Ninety-four Chrysler-Labaron. It was red. It was my mom's. car. It was, I was, it was eight years old when I had it. It was tired. Yeah.

I never crashed it, although my dad crashed it. Oh, really? Which is freak, it was freaking hysterically. Yeah. I remember when I was getting my driver's license, how much he'd pick on me, like, you're just going to tear this thing up. And one day, I had it sitting in our driveway at home, which we had a real small house back in Michigan, a small driveway.

And it had snowed that day. And my dad was turning in the driveway, and he got, in the snow and he slipped and it slid right in the side of it. Oh, no. It took the door out and everything. Man, I was one of the best moments in my life. I'd never had to hear that again.

You've had your ass ripped so many times for tearing your dad stuff up. Now he's tearing my car. Yeah. Where is it now? I have no idea. So did you sell it? I didn't wreck it. It's just gone.

I just, I don't remember how, I don't remember where it went. But I don't know. I think we must have sold it. Yeah. You know, cars when you're a race car driver are always so interesting because, and I never owned it, by the way. My mom and dad always owned it, but it was my first car.

I didn't own my first car until I was like 26 years old. What'd you buy? I bought one of the first Tesla's. Really? Yep. I got my first contract in 09. I had a friend who said, man, you ought to go check out this Tesla thing. Yeah.

I went to the California. in 2009. I went to one of the few Tesla dealerships. Couldn't have been any bigger than this room right here. I walked in the door, test drove one of their electric cars. Oh, this is different. Whatever. And I had a manufacturer car. So like, yeah, it wasn't going to be my daily driver, but I wanted to own a car. I test drove the car, drove it back into the dealership. And I, yeah, I think I'll buy one. And I, you know, put a deposit down.

The lady was at the door. And again, there might have been like five people working there. This was like before you Tesla, nobody even knew who Tesla was at the time, right? And a lady goes, oh yeah, the owner's in the back. Do you want to talk to them? And I like, no, well, just put the boss down. I got to go get to this appearance I have for, uh, for Hendricks.

There was a Hendrik. Like, yeah, but thanks. Yeah, just let me know when it was ready. Like six months later, came in. That's awesome. It's January of 2010. So, uh,

that's, uh, one of my many Elon Musk stories is I, I blew off meeting him to go to a, appearance. Well, that's, that's pretty awesome. Yeah, that was a bad move, by the way. I regret that. Don't do that again. Don't do that one. No, no, that was a bad one. Well, thanks for taking the time today. I appreciate you coming in studio. It always makes it a lot more, a lot more conversational. So, thanks for taking it. Yeah, you're welcome. And next time, I won't wear the same clothes. Yeah,

I promise. We color coordinated today. So thanks for, thanks for taking the time. You're welcome. I want to thank Brad for coming in today. It's not always that we get to have our guest in studio. And everybody for listening, we encourage everybody to follow us on on YouTube. and even if you have to listen and watch us on social media, we encourage that at Harvick HappyPod. Thanks for listening today and we'll see you next week.