Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour presented by NASCAR on FOX - Jamie McMurray Interview

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

Kevin Harvick sits down with NASCAR on FOX Analyst and former Cup Series driver Jamie McMurray for a wide-ranging conversation. They revisit Jamie’s incredible 2010 season, including his wins at the Daytona 500 and the Brickyard. Jamie shares how he got his start in racing, reflects on the highs and lows of his career, and opens up about his transition from the driver’s seat to the broadcast booth. Plus, Kevin and Jamie swap stories about working together at FOX and how their unique perspectives shape their race coverage. 0:00 - Intro 0:38 - Jamie McMurray Joins The Show! 2:43 - Memories From 2010 Cup Season 7:27 - Racing For Chip Ganassi 14:24 - Beginning Of Racing Career 25:28 - Transitioning Into The Broadcast World Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It seems like a lifetime ago that I even sat in a car. I spent that whole first weekend at Talladega in a Port-Ajoin. What went from my worst racetrack, I bet statistically is my best race track. Not everybody can say that they won their second cup race. When they throw the green flag today, if they all blow up on the first lap, I don't care. You put those headphones on the counter. See you guys next week. Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour, presented by NASCAR on Fox.

And today we have one of my coworkers. This is weird. Kind of. Yeah, a little bit. 14 weeks of the year. Jamie McMurray, thanks for taking the time this weekend. Glad to do you. Yeah.

It's fun. We've been going back and getting some guys that aren't in the middle of everything weekly on the track and trying to tell the stories. And I think the fans have really appreciated the old Skinner and Hornaday. And we are old. Those were good moments back then. We are old. Are you older than me?

I think you are about six months. I'm going to be 50 this year. Oh, I just turned 49, yeah. So I think you're like six months older than me. Yeah, it's, it is, it's interesting, Kevin, because I feel like we, you have these conversations all the time, but like 30 was old at one point. Yeah. You know, and then 30's not old because you're 30. that we make it not old. Yeah, and now 50's not old either. No. Because I know a lot of people over 50, yeah. And I think, you know, when you look back at your career, it seemed like an eternity,

at least it did for me that I drove and was a part of things. And now that you're out of it, seems like a long time since I've been in it. It does for you, too? Yeah. 100%. Like, and my wife and I talk about this all the time. Actually, Pockrest did this really cool piece before, I don't remember what race it was before, but it talked about my 2010 season.

And it was, I think he sells it as like, what you kids don't know. And I'm like, ooh, that means that they weren't born, most likely, when this happened. But I listened to this on the couch, and Christy was in the other room. And it was pretty long. And, of course, I listened to the whole piece. And when it was over, she came in. And, you know, her, she doesn't talk a lot. And she's like, does that make you sad?

And I'm like, a little bit. I'm like, it does. I'm like, I miss that. You know, like, those were your favorite memories. Yeah. And she's like, that seems like a lifetime ago to me. And I'm like, me too. Like I remember all that. But it just seems, it seems like a lifetime ago that I even sat in a car. It just, and it goes, and it happens quick. I think that happens two or three years after you're out. It just, you know, it goes away quick and time moves on. And, and yeah, that's life. But it, it does seem like forever ago. When you talk about that year, I mean, would you consider that the best year of your career? Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah. And I think. when you look back, I mean, you won the Daytona 500. You won the Brickyard. And it was just one of those years that come together. And I was fortunate to go through some of those years as well. And they're not easy to come by. And you work your whole career to have two or three of those years. And we talk so much about Kyle Larson and you look at all the great things he's done. And now you're talking about Kyle Larson being off compared to where he's normally. But that's racing.

And it's so hard to maintain that edge. But what do you think made that year so good for you guys? I wish I knew. I mean, I think, you know, I would tell you that, and you were a part of the ECR engine program for that time period, they were pretty special at not just the intermediator short tracks, but they were really good at the Super Speedway tracks. I mean, everywhere we went,

we felt like you had like the best engine package for that year. I think that Gannasi also was ahead of, most of the teams on some arrow stuff at that time, whether it was with the splitter or like, and I don't, I don't, I, I, I don't remember exactly the details of that, but I just know that when we came back from the GM would go wind tunnel, all the cars, and I didn't know this in 2010, but 2011, 2012, we struggled. And when you would look at all the GM cars, we were the lowest.

But in 2010, when they'd go to the wind tunnel, our cars were always at the top of that list. Right. And so, you know, when you put together, the best engine package, the best arrow package, and, you know, the team is working well together. I mean, it's just, yeah, it was just really good. And it wasn't just, I mean, it was those races you mentioned were good, but we also finished second in the Coke 600, a caution, you know, cost a late race win there. Darlington, I finished second in the Southern 500. There was just, it was just like every time we went to a fast race track, we always had really good speed. What was Chip like as a boss? I know that year was good, but you worked for,

him and with him for a while. My relationship with Chip was completely different from 2002 when I filled in for Sterling to I left in 2005. That was a totally a different relationship than I had when I went back in 2010. When I went back in 2010,

there was no sponsors for that car at the time. Like Bass Pro Shops was kind of part-time then. McDonald's wasn't there. And I think I had grown up a lot as a person. and Chip and I did all that together with the team of building all that back up. And so it changed our, we turned into friends as much as anything.

And he's still one of my really good friends. I mean, I text Chip, you know, on a regular basis still. And I look up to him. He taught me a lot. He was one of those guys that you would sit in a room with him and anyone that knows Chip will appreciate this. And he'll give you like 50, 15 seconds of awkwardness and not say anything and just look at you. And he will always say what else.

Yeah. And it draws you into saying things that you don't want to say. Yeah. And he just, and I just remember through contract negotiations or when sponsors would leave the team, I always envy chip because he never panicked. He would always just like kind of let things ride out. And I was always like, in my mind, I'm like, we have to figure this out soon. Like this, we got to get, you know, get it worked out. And he was just always so. patient. And it, I mean, I don't know that it always worked out for him because I know some things didn't. But most of the time it worked out. And I think a lot of that had to do with his patience in those situations. And I think when you look back at Chip, he obviously had a knack for timing of when he brought

people back and things he did with what you guys did kind of proves that. But when you look at Kyle Arson and you were around during that time, what was that, what, I mean, how did Chip approach how did that dynamic fit within the team, I guess, when he was always looking, it seemed like he was always looking for the younger guys, even when the boom started in the early 2000s. Yeah. He was always kind of ahead of that. And we were kind of a part of that.

As the cup teams started to age out all their drivers, it always seemed like a really interesting dynamic there. You went left and you worked there and then came back. And so it was always interesting to see how chip. pick people up. And I guess the thing for me is, how did you wind up at Chips? Like, he was good at- Initially? Initially, yes. How did you wind up at Chips? Because you were sought after with everything that you had going on. And what was that Chase like with Chip? Yeah. So, I don't, I don't really know, to be honest with you. I don't, the story that I was always told is,

oh my gosh, I can't think of his name. Who was the head of PR for NASA? car forever. Jim Hunter? Jim Hunter. Friends with Felix. And I think Jim Hunter took a liking to me in the Bush series at the time. And I think he poked Felix and was like, you know, you need to look at this guy. And then I assume Felix and Chip got together. And I got a call, yeah, from my agent at the time. And Chip had reached out. And we went to this meeting. These were great. Like I don't, this doesn't happen anymore, but it was only these meetings at the hangar at the Conrad Airport. And I just remember, I mean, I was 24, 25 years old, and I had never been to a cup race at the time, right? I'm in the Xfinity series, and I'd never stayed over for a Sunday race.

And it was only in my second year of the Bush series. And I just remember they're like, you know, we're going to meet at the hangar over at the Concord Airport. And Felix's hangar was like, I don't remember exactly. I just remember it was really nice, you know, like the conference room in it. And we had that first initial meeting and I was terrified, you know, because I was so. excited and I would have agreed to... You go by yourself? I don't remember.

I think my agent probably... I don't remember. Like, it's a little bit of a blur. I forgot the story until you started asking about it. That's how fast we move on from things. Yeah, like I don't remember. But I just remember being nervous and overwhelmed. And it's, yeah, it was crazy how that all worked out.

And yeah, nuts. So you go through that time, you get to Chips. How does the conversation go when Sterling gets hurt? Oh, so that wasn't with Chips. That conversation was with Andy Graves. Okay. And their shop, the time was up at exit 36 off Highway 150. It was actually the old Sabco building.

And Andy called me into his... This is pre-chip. No, Chips there, but like Chips is not involved. Chips is in Pittsburgh. And so Andy does the day-to-day work at... Right. He's the team manager, you know, at Gannasi. And he brought us in and was like, I think, you know,

it went something like, you know, I talked to Chip. And Chip said, if we believe in you for next year, we're going to put you in it for the rest of this year. And of course, I, you know, in my life had changed so much in like 30 days of, I didn't even know if I was going to have a ride to then I got this offer to go to Ganassi. To then they're like, by the way, you're going to get in Sterling's car, which Sterling was always, I don't want to say a hero, but Sterling was one of those legends for me, like growing up.

Yeah. Yeah. And like I just remember, I mean, being nervous to even meet Sterling. And then to get in his car and a car that you had, I think the only way you could appreciate this at home is if you're a late model guy right now and they call you to get in Kyle Larson's car or Christopher Bell's car and you're like,

what, this doesn't even seem attainable a year ago and now all of a sudden it's all happening. Yeah. Yeah. But that was all, that was Andy Graves. I remember having that conversation. So do you remember the expectations of what you thought when you got into it?

I mean, you're usually pretty nervous about things. Kevin, I spent that whole first weekend at Talladega in a port-a-john because I had a girlfriend with me at the time, and we were in a motor home, and it was a cheap motor home, had been walls, and I remember my stomach was so upset. I just spent the whole time in this port-a-jong, like in the motorhome lot, because I just, like, you know, I just was terrified of that whole situation. And then, in Talladega, you know, you get out there at that type of racing,

and I just tried not to make anyone mad is what I remember. Like, you just need to, you know, they had a really fast car. Those cars were super fast at that time. And I think we were running fifth or something and ran out of gas on the last, before the last pit stop and didn't finish well. But then going to Charlotte the next week, have you ever heard the story about Charlotte? I told us a few times.

So when we went to Charlotte the following week, it was my worst racetrack at the time. I didn't like Charlotte. I would say if you had to base speed, for me, it was my slowest racetrack. And I struggled there in the bush car. And I told Tony Glover, I was like, this is not a good track for me.

And he's like, Jamie, I'm telling you, we have a really good setup for this track. Sterling always runs well here. You're going to be fine. And we went out in qualifying trim because that's what you did on Friday. I remember leaving the pits. I'd never been wide open in a cup car before

with full power. They were fast. And I'm like, oh my God, this is so fast. And I got to the end of the backstretch on the outlap. And I don't, I remember I'm like, I can't see because I feel like I'm going so quick. And it's rough. It's bouncing. And I miss the corner and have, you know, slide up the racetrack.

And it's just, it's a disaster. And we make two or three runs. And we're last. I think we're the slowest car in qualifying trim on Friday practice. And I remember Glover coming down to my window net. And I'm sitting in the car. And he was always called, he called everyone a little. And he's like, well, little buddy, you weren't lying.

He's like, this is not a good track for you. And so, and I'm, you know, I can laugh about it now. But in that process, Lauren Reneer, who is my spotter and Glover and Lee McCall, that whole group was like, listen, there's a concrete patch or a patch in turn three. You've got to stay above that before you turn down. You've got to take a late entry. And I just remember in my mind, Kevin, I was like, I don't know what they're talking about. Like, I've never seen that patch that they're referring to. And qualifying got rained out.

And I was thankful for that. Because they were like fifth in points. Because you only needed to pick up another second when you went to qualify. That's right. Yeah. When you go to qualify at night at Charlotte. I don't know why. I think because of the rain, Bush practice, we did it on Saturday morning.

And I went out in the bush car the next day. And it was a big difference in speed. And I left the pits. And I'm like, wow, this seems so slow. And I got to turn three. And I'm like, oh, I see that patch they're talking about right now. And I drove around it. And I was like third quick in bush practice, which was unhundred.

hurt like it was really good and then we started the cup race and i just i just it just all clicked for me and it's so weird because what went from my worst race track i bet statistically is my best race track in throughout my career like charl was just always a really good track for me um but that was that was quite a quite a moment quite a weekend for me yeah and you know it's not everybody can say that they won their second cup race i know well yeah i know and it just all the stars lined up and and that's really that's how life works that's how life works and it's really about connecting the dots, no matter if you're working on the business side, if you're getting in a seat or whatever that is. But since we're working backwards, take me back to how you even became

interested in racing and how it all started for you. We didn't race carts together necessarily, but we race carts at the same time and here and there. And I still believe to this day, your son went through the carding system. My son went through the carding system. We both went through the carding system. Still, believe 100% that's the best way to get the basics of racing at a high level. At a young age. At a young age.

There's nothing that compares to it. But how did you get involved, just interested in racing at a young age? So my dad always worked in racing. He worked for a company that sold parts like valves, rods, pistons, racing engines. And he was always into racing anyway, but then he traveled to engine shops, sold the parts to those shops. And so we always had racing stuff at home. He was into drag racing a lot, did some like dirt, I don't know, street stocks. I don't even know what they were. Like at the time, it wasn't late models, but it was just dirt racing. And he also was always

trading. He never had a car for more in a few weeks. He was always trading trying to get something different. So nothing's changed. Nothing's changed. Exactly right. And he ended up with a go cart. And I think he was riding that or racing it. And I was a, I don't know, six, seven years old. And, you know, I mean, you're going on the track with him and it seemed fun. And they bought me a cart. I got a cart for my eighth birthday. I remember, you know, it's weird. I don't remember the meeting with Chip, but I can still picture walking from my parents' dining room out into our garage and seeing that go-karts sit there, and I remember my mom had taken a piece of paper,

and she had written Happy Birthday and taped it to the seat. Like, I can see it, you know. But that's where it started. Started racing go-carts in Joplin, and, you know, I did pretty good at it. And so we would travel around. You mentioned we, we raced carts, I think, once together. It was in Garnet, Kansas.

I remember you showed up for the nationals out there. And so, yeah, did carts, and, you know, it was fun. Like, I mean, it was, but it was so different. And I try to explain, to my kid, Carter, because he asked me about racing then. And I'm like, you know, now when you show up to a national race, there's 40, 60 kids that show up.

There might be 10 that showed up and we had national. We thought it was big time. And you look at it now and it's not even close. It's almost embarrassing. Like, I look back at some of the pictures and I'm like, oh my God, I beat six kids that day. You know, it's just, but it was hard then. It was different.

I mean, you still are developing those skills. But I think that's why you see these guys now that come along and how good they are. Because they had to beat more competition than you and I ever did. Yeah. And when you go back to those, when you go back to those days, you went from carts to what? At what age? I got a pavement modified. But I want to make it clear, like they're, when, I think when people...

Like an IMCA modified? Yeah. Yeah. When people think of modifies, I think that's like what my kids do now, these big wide tires. Depends on what part of the country you're talking to. Yeah, this was just, mine was basically a dirt car, a dirt, IMCA modified that we put a front sway bar in it. and went and bought this engine from some guy's barn and threw it in. I remember it was $3,000.

I remember my dad giving the guy $3,000 cash. We came home, put the engine in. And we went racing. And we had like an open trailer and we still had a motorhome from like carting. And we would drive up to Lebanon, Missouri, Bolivar, Missouri. And we'd race on Friday and Saturday nights in this modified. Every week. Well, I mean, whatever the week's where they race.

Yeah, like it was only a couple hours. I think Lebanon was only two hours from my hometown. We would drive to Bolivar race on Friday night, stay in the motorhome that night, and then drive to Lebanon, which is like another hour away. And yeah, and we did that almost every weekend. And then there was also, you remember I-70.

I-70 was about three hours from my house. It was fast, really fast, especially for a local-type racing. We did that in Lakeside a couple of years also with my parents. But most of that was all in modified, and I think in that same car for most of it. And I was really fortunate that the guy, the family that owned the track in Lebanon, Missouri, the Willard family,

there was a guy there named Larry Phillips, who most people will recognize that name, arguably the best short track racer ever, and for sure of his generation. He's in that same category as like a Dick Trickle or Alan Quicky or Rusty and Mark, those guys all raced with Larry. Larry, when he would race, it wasn't if he would win. They would make him start like, I think 12th was the best he ever got to. start. Sometimes they'd make him start last. People would figure out how many laps it took him to get to the lead because you knew he was going to win. And so the family then that track, the Willards, Bill Willard,

who turned out to be almost like a grandfather figure to me because both of my grandparents died at a really young age for me. And Bill called my dad and was like, hey, I'd like to put Jamie in a late model at our track. And his idea was he wanted someone that could race with Larry and bring fans in and someone that could maybe beat him as a draw. And of course, for me, it was incredible because my family was never going to afford a late model. And it was a great experience for me because I moved to Lebanon, Missouri, to where they were. Bill and David Willard, they paid for all this racing, provided a shop. And I was the only employee. And we had a couple, you know, people that would come in and just kind of help. But

like I did everything and it was really fun man like I just yeah I mean like I got to have really nice cars and and we had left-handed chassis at the time and I remember left-hander had like a catalog like at the time and you would go through and you just mark what you want and you would call and give them the part numbers and they would ship it to you it was I mean it was a it was a great time and that David Willard he actually came to a couple of races this year with me I still stay in touch with them because they were a huge part of my career and fortunately Kevin When I got there, I don't remember how many races I won the first year, but if we raced 15 times, I maybe won 13 or 14 of them. No kidding.

And so that was huge for my career because it kind of opened up some opportunities to move on and do other stuff. So did it change the dynamic at the racetrack with the crowd and the people? Do you remember any of that? It was a great time because they, I don't mean, some of these other tracks have this now, but they had that tiered parking, which is where you could park your car, like from turn. turn two to turn three all the way down the backstretch, they had like two or three tiers,

and people would park their cars there. And they sold a lot of tickets. I mean, a lot of people went to those races. And I don't remember, I mean, I'm not the right guy to ask on that, but it was fun because there was a lot of people in the stands. And it was fun for me because I was just a kid. I mean, I was 17, maybe, 18. And, you know, you'd sign autographs afterwards,

and people would come down. And it was just, it was a really good memory for me because no one had ever really beaten Larry. And Larry became a friend of mine. Like I looked up to him probably as much as anybody in my racing career, not because I spent as much time around him. But I idolized him because he had a shop. He built his own cars from scratch. He built the spindles. He built everything.

And it was always different. Like you couldn't buy what he had because he was making it. Like the exhaust on his car was always unique. and he just, he was a good cheater as well, right? I mean, like, manipulated in the body. And I just remember I would always sit back and look and I'm like, man, like that's what I want to be. Like, I want to figure out how to do the things that he's doing.

And he never moved on to make it in racing, but he was so good at what he did. And I just, like, people always ask me about heroes. And I'm like, I didn't really have a hero, but that was someone that I looked at that I was like, that's who I'd like to be one day. And it's crazy you could remember probably half the field that were in all those races.

But you couldn't, you can't remember. I know. I'm the same way. Like, I can remember all my go-kart races, all my late-on-rises. I don't know why that is. Yeah, I think they're just core memories. And I think that's the difference between racing for the love of it and a hobby. And then it turns into, you love it, but you do it as a, you do it to make a living.

It's a job. It's just, it's not the same once it turns into a job. So I hear a lot of the same places that are nut job teammate from Fox raced in. Did you ever cross paths with Boyer? Yeah. No. Never knew Clint. Really?

No. Clint, so the Willard family, who I mentioned, when we had all that success at those local tracks with them, there was a series called ArtGo at the time. And ArtGo turned into, I think NASCAR owns it now, it turned into another series. But it was huge in Wisconsin. Like Steve Carlson, there was just a lot of Kincyth came from there.

There was a lot of great drivers, and it was hard. Because when you get to that area, of the country, it's cold and snows a lot. So they race a lot in a short period of time. Still do. Still do, yeah. And so when I went up there, I was a little out of my league. And I say that because I'd never been to a lot of the tracks that were on the series, but they were also a little longer races, and it was hard. And we got to go do that. And the group of guys that I did that with, Jeff Cassidy and Jamie Hager and Jeff Stacey, those guys, they traveled all those races with me. And when I moved on to do the truck series, they didn't have any, any, you know,

they were still racing locally like at I-70, but they got hooked up with Clint. And then they went and did all the same stuff with Clint. But I didn't know Clint. I, I didn't meet Clint until, I mean, probably until I made it to Cup or maybe in the Xfinity series when we would cross pass, but I didn't, I didn't know Clint at all. That's wild that you guys grew up in the, I know. In the same part. We weren't hanging with the same crowd. I can tell you that. Yeah. And I, And I think when you look back at that, I met Clint for the first time. He was still racing modified. I was driving, it's probably, I don't want to say a year, but it's probably 2002 to 2005, somewhere in there.

Probably closer to 2005. But he was driving for a guy who owned local Sonic franchises. Yeah, it was a sponsor. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. Craig. And so Craig was heavily involved in the Sonic. He was always around at the racetrack when I was driving the Sonic car.

sponsored Clinton. And the first time I met him was at an appearance in somewhere in the middle of Kansas at like a fair or something that we went to. So Sonic was on the Xfinity car or the Bush car at the time? Sonic was on the Cup car. They were an associate sponsor on the Cup car. I kind of remember that night. And I ran a couple individual Bush races with Sonic. With Sonic. With Sonic was big in the Midwest. Yeah, it was funny how all those dots get connected. But interesting that you guys didn't really cross past. No, I never. No, I didn't meet him until. I don't even know what I'm, I mean, I don't remember meeting. I don't know how I don't remember meeting him for the first time, but I don't.

Well, since we brought up Clint, talk about your transition from when you've figured out, okay, this is the end of my driving career, and trying to figure out what you wanted to do next and how that led to TV. I remember being on a fishing trip for Cessna in Canada, and I was bunked with Dirk's Bentley. and it was two people in each cabin

and our beds were like your feet were at each other and there's no TV, no internet, no nothing, right? So like you'd go to the campfire and hang out and when it's time to go to bed, you'd lay down and you might lay there for a while, right? And you just talked. And I remember laying there with him

and we talked about like what we would do when our careers were over. And I was like, Dirk's, I have every intention when I'm done driving to disappear and people never see me again. I was like, I just, because you know, you're in the thick of it,

and it's just, you're exhausted. And he was, he was like, man, I kind of, you know, feel the same. I don't remember exactly how you want to put words in his mouth, but he's like, I get it, you know. And then when it came, you know, to where I knew I wasn't going to drive anymore, you know, I had that decision of,

do you, do you hang on and go drive for a lesser team? Do you, but I was, honestly, like, I wasn't ready to quit driving. in the moment, I'm like, I don't want to stop. Like, I still want to do this. But at the same time, there was this huge sigh of relief when it was over of like, oh, my God. Like, you know, you don't realize how stressful it is and how big of how taxing it is on you and your family.

And Fox was opening up the studio where we are. And they were going to have a full-time, you know, pre-race guy that was going to stay at the studio. and I came in and I did Hub a couple of times with Adam and Shannon, and I had fun. Like, I just remember coming in and doing it, and you're a small part of those shows. Like, you might just do a segment or two. But I'm like, it's pretty fun.

Like, I left laughing, and I'm like, I kind of enjoyed that. And so I tried it for a year here, and it, I don't know, it just, what I liked about TV and what I still like about it, and I think you would agree with me on this, is in racing on Monday, everybody meets at the shop and you go over what you did wrong, what you need to do better, what we need to do the next time we go to a road course, what, you know, what breaks, what you go over all these things. And you're always trying to get better. I missed that in racing and TV opened that

up to me again because you have a meeting on Tuesday. You talk about, well, what are we going to talk about this week? And even though TV's subjective and there's no winner or loser, when the shows are over, you know, like, man, I think that based on what we said on Tuesday, we implemented that, did a really good job. Or I said some things that I felt like were really valuable. Or there, I went home a couple of times, you know, and especially from here the first, you know, you're, and I'm like, Chris, they might fire me. I'm like, I don't know why they would keep me. I'm like, I just sound like an idiot on TV. And so, like, I like I feel like it, you got to work with the team again together, and I enjoyed all that. And I think that the,

the team aspect of it is something that a lot of people don't realize from when you're driving. It's all about the team. You're a problem solver. Yeah. And it's with the TV thing, I'm very similar to you. Being a part of a group of people trying to figure out what you're going to do, what's right, what's wrong, having the debates of, you know, what somebody thinks you should talk about or not talk about is funny. It allows you to be a part of the sport and not have all the pressure. For me, the relief of pressure has been so refreshing.

Well, I mean, I, I, I, I, Eric Amarroll asked me this the other day about TV and, like, how I feel. And I'm like, Eric, here's the thing. I'm like, when you're driving and you have a flat tire with five laps to go, your week is over. Rooned. You're just like, you just want to vomit, right? I was like, Eric, when they throw the green flag today, if they all blow up on the first lap, I don't care. I'm like, I'm going to go home. It's not going to change my life at all.

That's right. And that is, man, you can't put a price on that. Yeah, there is. That was the best thing for me was when the race was over. You put those headphones on the counter. See you guys next week. I wish, Kevin, in, in, and it, it's probably this way in life,

but for sure in what we have done, I wish I could do everything backwards. And what I mean by that is, I wish I could have done TV first because if I could have, when I went back to my career, I would have handled things completely different in whether it was interviews

or what I found value in or seeing the other side of it. But at the same time, my biggest regret in racing is not enjoying it. And you said that, when you're go-karting, even though your dad's yelling at you.

And there's still fun, right? I mean, like you're kind of hanging out with your buddies. It's not life or death. You're not trying to put food on the table. No. Well, and it's not, and I think, I mean, even in racing, you know, you weren't trying to put food on the table your last year, but you want to win, right? And you get mad because someone else made a mistake that costs, and it's your name on the door,

right? And that's the one thing about, I think, being the driver or the crew chief, I would say, is fair as well. Your name is there. And everyone, like, if there's an issue, that's who they blame. initially. And you just, there's very few people in professional anything, whether it's racing, I don't care what sport it is, they have fun. Yeah. So you go, you end your driving career. You go to TV, your life is much more relaxed. And now you're involved in the most stressful thing

you're ever going to do in your life, and that's racing with your son. Yeah. How's that been? And for me, it's been fun because I still think back to those first conversations of when you went from, I watched you in go-karts, and then you came to the legend team and our kids race together. And it was so fun to see the transition from hands-on Jamie to, all right, I got to let him learn. I need to back off. And that, to me, was fun because I went through the exact same thing. It is hard. Because in karting, I mean, when I say I did everything, like I put the trailer on the truck, like I loaded it, I cleaned it.

I did everything. Yeah. And I loved it. And it was so much fun. And then when, yeah, when we got to the legend cars, I'm like, well, now I'm kind of just in charge of the GoPro, right? Like, that's it. Like, I was, like, in charge of the GoPro. And then six months in, I didn't even get to touch the GoPro.

Like, you know what I mean? I just, and that's hard. Yeah. And then, but it's also really fun to, for me, like, I don't really help anymore. Like, when we go to the track, I don't even go with him for some of these because I'm at work, Christy goes with him. And so he has to do it all on his own. He has to do everything. Right.

And I've watched him as a person grow more in three months this summer than the previous five years as a driver. Because all of a sudden I didn't get to, because I would baby him. And I didn't do it. When I say baby him, I would change the visor when the sun started going down because I'm like, I know if I don't do this right now that he's going to be like right before he puts his helmet, I'm like, oh my God, there's no, the sun's down. And so instead of letting him learn those lessons, I would just do it. And I didn't even know it was babying him, right? I was just, because I'm like, well, if I was a driver, I would change my visor. Like, I just, but I'm a prepper, you know, like, I like, I like everything to be in line.

But the last three months, like, I don't even look at video with him anymore. And he'll, and I have let him just ask me questions. He sent me some texts. The last race they ran, he's like, do you think if I back my entry up? Like, and I, and I, I was so proud, not because he asked the right questions, but because he asked questions. And I'm like, oh, his head is thinking the way that it should. Because when you first go, I don't care if it's from car.

to the legend cars or legend cars to the stock cars, you just had to let them like, go figure out of fly. Right? Like, and go screw up, go run into the back of someone. And it's, it is, it definitely aged me, like, because it's just so taxing to watch the mistakes. Because as dad, when you only watch one car, five laps before it happens, you're like,

I can see what's getting, right? You know, you can just, you're like, I want to come on the radio, but you have to let them learn. Yeah. So it's been the hardest thing for me probably, as a dad to kind of watch that learning curve go. And it's expensive, right? Like the mistakes aren't just like, it's okay, son, we'll move on.

It's like, damn, it's expensive. Well, we might have to miss one race because you just wadded one up in the corner over there. For no reason. Yeah. And so what's the last thing about racing? What's the biggest difference that you see in today's world of trying to groom a young driver compared to how you were brought up? preparation. And I don't care what level it is. This is do carting. If you're going to go to a new go-kart

track as a kid right now, you get on YouTube and you watch an hour of some other kid driving at that track and you learn, maybe not even breaking markers, but just trends or just laps, like which way the track goes. It's just the drivers now have, if you're at the lowest level of carding, you can get on YouTube and watch races, past races. If you are, if you are, you know, at the highest level, they have so many resources now. Like, I just, and I, you might argue with me on this. I think some people will. I don't think it really matters if you know what a car does anymore.

I don't, like I, as much as I would love for the kid to be able to pack the wheel bearings, I don't think that makes a great driver. And I say that because I've seen a lot of guys come along that don't know anything about race cars, Kyle Larson being one of them, and as good as they get. And so I just, I think that it's all about having some ability, having, you know, tremendous drive. Like, that's the one thing that you can't teach a kid. Like, like, you're this way too. The will to want is just... It overpowers a lot of things. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Like, I'm in, and for me, it's that way with everything in life. Like, I don't care what I'm doing.

I'm like, I don't figure how to be the best at it, you know? But to me, that's the big difference. It's just the resources they have and the preparation they can do before they even get to their track. And they're freaking brave. They watch all those videos and think that they can go out there the first lap and just floor it. And they do. They do. They do. Honestly, most of the times we get a new track, I'm terrified.

Oh, my God. It completely freaks me out. Stop. I'm the same way. Slow down. Like, we have all day, right? You don't have to run within a tenth of the track record on your second lap. It's just not that important, you know?

Yeah. Break the, like bleed the brake. Let's just work the car in a little bit. Yeah, they can watch all those videos and just immediately make it happen. Yeah. They're smarter than we are. Way smarter. Yeah.

I know. And I watch. those videos and they're like, you see this? Whatever. Their brain is functioning at a high level. When you watch a video with Keelan, does he see different things than you do? He does. And I think that's the one hard part about what we do is the things that we would coach are a little bit different. And I've learned this racing with Keelan. The thought processes that I have about, okay, I need to pace myself. I need to save my tires. None of that. They go out and it's, how fast can I go all the time.

You tell them not to slide the car. Every one of them are out there sliding cars around. And I think just the mentality of how they race is so much different than the way that you and I were brought up because of, you know, you didn't, they don't worry about crashing a car. They don't worry about spinning out. Nothing really slows them down. And I think that the way that they race is just at a much faster pace than what you and I wanted to race that because we had to say.

the tires and you had to take care of the car. You don't take care of the car. You don't save the tires. There's a few places that you save the tires. And you guys race, you know, the modifies at a lot of the tracks that we race our late models at. But it's just a, it's a very different mentality in a way that they think. Yeah. I mean, I would, I compare it to like when my son has his phone. He goes through, he scrolls so fast. I'm like, slow down. So I can, they don't have to because they comprehend things so much quicker than you do. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Last question. toughest question of the day. What was your first car that you drove on the street? My first car was a 1984 Ford Ranger XLT extended cabs.

Did you buy it yourself? Didn't. My parents bought it for me. It was $3,000. And I did not want it. Like, I don't, I think my dad wanted it or my dad thought it was going to be a good vehicle. I did not want it. So that would have been in 1993 or 94. The popular thing was like S-10. or Mazda's lowered. Slown. Like wheels. See if you could rip

the reflectors off the road. Yeah, I can tell you a Ford Ranger wasn't a cool truck to slam. I couldn't even find a picture of one slam. Yeah. And that's what I really wanted,

like, because that's what my friends had. And so I kept it for like, I don't know, maybe six months. And I traded it up for a little S-10 blazer and I paid the difference

of my parents. But yeah, I didn't want it. So you just got rid of it. So that's the way it goes. There's no, there's no good history behind it. What you thought was cool, Your parents didn't think was cool. No, no.

Pretty much the same as today. We've learned that our parents, we are our parents. Yeah, it's, yeah, and I'm having those discussions with Carter right now because he's going to be 15 in a couple months. And so you start having, like, what do you want for a car? And his expectations and the reality of what he's going to get are significantly different. About the same. Yeah, that's right. About the same.

Well, thanks for taking the time. Great catching up with you. Appreciate it. Thank you.