Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour presented by NASCAR on FOX - Jeff Burton Interview

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

In Episode 52 of “Kevin Harvick’s Happy Hour,” NASCAR legend Kevin Harvick sits down with former NASCAR driver and commentator Jeff Burton for an insightful conversation. The episode kicks off with a discussion about Jeff’s son, Harrison Burton, who recently celebrated his first Cup Series victory at Daytona! Jeff shares the unique experience of calling the race while witnessing his son's milestone win, offering a thoughtful perspective on balancing the roles of father and mentor. The conversation then expands to a broader discussion on the current challenges within NASCAR, with Jeff providing his insights from both his time on the track and his role in the broadcast booth. This episode is packed with exclusive insights, passionate discussions about racing, and a behind-the-scenes look at the world of NASCAR. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There was just so much emotion that because of all of those things collectively. And I think that's what made the race special for the fans. I'd been in the booth when he'd won some Xenity races, and they were cool moments. But this was next level. Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour, presented by NASCAR on Fox. And this week's conversation is with the happiest dad in Daytona, Jeff Burton, who was a longtime friend of mine, teammates starting way back in 2005. And I can't wait to hear his emotion.

because as a dad, watching your son win is no better feeling. So let's dig into Jeff Burton and see how his call of the race and watching his son's first win actually went down. Well, I've got the mayor of the garage. And Jeff, even though you quit driving, you still, you wear that title as the mayor with everything that you have done through the years. And I know the drivers currently in the past appreciate everything that you've done. But man, you got to experience something this weekend that even you haven't experienced in your long career around this sport. And that is calling the race while your son is winning the race, even though you about took Lee Diffey's head off in the booth. What a feeling. Explain to us that feeling of what you got to experience this weekend.

Yeah. So, Kevin, it's, I mean, you know how it is. You race with race with your son and you spent a tremendous. minutes with your daughter and, you know, all you want as a parent is for your kids to be able to do what they love to do, right? I mean, ultimately, happiness is being out of wake up in the morning and knowing you're getting to do something that you want to do. And then in regard to racing, it's really, really hard. And so watching Harrison's struggle the last three years, watching what's gone on with him and how that's affected him and the fight he's continued to brain, those last two laps were just, were incredible because, you know, he's spent a lot of time watching video and talking and studying and everything that he had been working on, the opportunity

was in front of him. And can he execute? Can he make it happen? And he did it. And then he did it after he's lost his job. And he did it for the Wood Brothers. There was just so much emotion that, because of all of those things collectively. And I think that's what made the race special for the fans. And I know that's what made it special for me. And so, you know, I'd been in the booth when he'd want some Expendity races, and they were cool moments, but this was next level. And it just had, not because it was Harrison,

but it just had a big moment feel to it. And it just touched me because it was Harrison, but it also touched me because the feeling of the night was just huge. When you got down out of the booth and you got to the infield and you're able to celebrate with him, Harrison said you punched him as hard as he's ever been punched in the ribs with all that enthusiasm and excitement. And that was cool. But I think to be able to celebrate with him, but I think to me watching, one of the neatest moments was Victory Lane when you guys were in Victory Lane and it was Driver Lane.

and it was driver after driver after driver. You know, I saw Dale Jarrett and person after person after person come into Victory Lane. What does that mean for not only Harrison and you, but your whole family and what the Burton family has meant to the sport, I think was well represented in that moment

with all the different people that came in to congratulate Harrison and you and Kim. But what is that like when you see? see that support from everybody all of a sudden when you have that milestone moment to see all that support that you guys had after that race you know kevin i think that meant as much to me as anything and and the hundreds i mean almost thousand texts that i in calls and emails that i received was just really touching and um you know kenny wallace and i had this conversation about our

sport and and you and i've had something similar you know very few people get to leave the sport the way they want to. And a lot of people leave the sport and they're, angry, they have anxiety about it because it's not on your terms. It typically you leave the sport and you kind of feel like you're forgotten. You kind of feel like, you know, people don't care. The sport doesn't care. It does, but it just moves on. And so even when you're in the middle of it, You know, there's times you wonder, like, am I doing the right thing? Am I, am I, am I, not am I appreciated, but am I doing the right thing so that people understand that I'm trying to help the sport, that kind of stuff.

And then you have this moment where it's like, you know, people have an option. They can take time out of their day or not, and so many did. And then to see, you know, the other thing is I don't really know, I don't really know Harrison's relationship in the garage. I mean, I really don't. I don't go around asking people, hey, do you like Harrison? You know what I mean? Like, you know, that's not of my business.

So you really don't know. But sitting there and I just kind of got out of the way and just sat on the corner and watched and drink a few beers. And watching people, the number of people that came up to search Harrison out, I thought was really cool. And it meant a lot to me because that showed me that he is connected in the garage. That people do care about him. and people do appreciate being there. And yeah, as a dad, that was really cool. As you've gone through everything with Harrison,

we'll go back a little bit with everything that has happened with him losing his job and everything that has happened to see him represent himself was obviously well done. And that's typical of the Burton family with the way that you guys present yourself and the things that you guys do, always professional, always first class. How has you as a dad and you as a critic of your son, because we've talked to each other enough to know that we're pretty straightforward with our kids

on where they sit, how things are, where it's going, there's no sugar-coating, anything that goes on. How have you approached this with Harrison, that balance between being dad, but also being realistic with what's in front of him as he tries to reboot his career. Obviously, this moment is massive with having a W in the wind column in the Cup series as to that value. And I told this to Harrison on Monday. That value that you just added to your name is going to be worth its weight in gold as you go forward.

But how have you balanced that from being dad, being professional, and suggestions and advice for him going forward? You know, it gets to the point, Kevin, where, you know, it's, you know, Teelan's racing, but he's still young. So you're there and you're, you may critique him on how he entered the corner, you know, and how he tried to set up a pass the fundamentals of racing that are so important at his age. And I had that moment with Harrison where I was doing the same thing. But then as he's gotten older, it's more of a 30,000 foot view. It's more a philosophical conversation. And so with he and I the last several years, it's more been about mindset. And what I have tried to instill in him is that do not in bad times become a person that's looking around saying, well, if you did this and you did that and you did this, I'd be okay because that's not how things work. You can influence what it is that you need people to do.

and you can into 100% influence what it is you need to do. But let's focus and pay attention to what the things you can control are. And don't become a person that's just blaming everybody else when things aren't going well because there's no future in that. And, you know, he has struggled, he has struggled in my eyes, understanding, number one, how hard, how difficult cup is. Number two, how you have to take control. over so many situations and off the track.

And that's, it's really important. And you did it. You and I were teammates. You and I both know how aggressive we both were in trying to get the things we needed. And to me, that's the thing that he struggled with the most. And then as of late, you know, a few weeks ago or so, I just told him, I said, you are standing in your way, your own way of being the race car driver that you can be. And what does that mean? And I don't have the answer, but you got to go figure it out.

Because you're a better race car driver than what you're portraying. And some of that isn't what you're doing on the racetrack. It's what you're doing off the racetrack to make sure you can be successful on racetrack. And that doesn't mean, look, he's training, he's watching video, he's doing all those things. But how do you better interact with the team? How do you get more out of the team? How does the team get more out of you? Like, you've got to find a way. And we had that conversation a few weeks ago, and he was, it's really interesting. He was starting to really explore and try to understand what that meant and how he could be better. And, but that's all you can do.

And you also have to, as a parent, and you have to know when to shut the hell up, too. You know, there's times, not every conversation with your kid is a teaching moment, right? And so there's times you just have to, hey, man, what's up? And we spend a whole lot more time with that than we do talking about racing because I want to be his dad. I don't want to be, look, man, I don't want to be that guy that is just constantly pounding on my kids about do this, do this, do that. I don't want to be that guy. I want them to be their own people. I want them to learn from my mistakes, take advantage of the opportunities that are given to them.

But it's their lives. It's their career. It's not mine. And so that balance is hard to find. So when you look at Harrison situation, obviously you're pretty aware of everything that goes on on a day-to-day basis. And I think, you know, for a lot of people listening to this conversation, Jeff is basically in charge of the driver council and does a lot of things outside of racing that he doesn't have to do to be able to help direct and guide the drivers to try to have a, you. you know, a great position in the sport and understand things. And I've been a part of that with just as we've gone through that over the last few years. And I think one of the things that

was really eye-opening to me is how little this new generation of drivers knows about the politics and the ins and outs of things that happened with their teams. And a lot of them are very uninformed of things that are that are happening in the sport because of the relationship that they have with their teams. What do you think that the, and I think that has become a lot better as we've gone through the last couple years with NASCAR and their relationship of informing the drivers of what's going on because that's not always the case with the teams. What is the, what is the thing that you see that is the hardest for a young driver to learn outside of Harrison? Just as we've gone through these scenarios, what is the thing that?

the hardest thing for a young driver to grasp about cup racing because you have all this learning, all this information, all the money, all the attention and things that they don't ever get. No matter how good you are in Xfinity Series or the truck series or wherever else you raced, it's not like what you do in Cup. What do you think that biggest challenge is in today's NASCAR with the Gen 7 car is for a young driver coming into the sport to learn? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I think that, I think in my eyes, you know, race car drivers today are much more like NFL quarterbacks than they are just race car drivers because they are focusing on their craft, right?

And they have more tools than we ever had. They have more opportunity to be better at what they're doing than we had. They have more data to look at. So, but in that, there comes some danger in that. when you when you are working hard on yourself and your team is working hard on on you as a better driver, there's a danger in the focus being just on the driver being better when the car needs to be better too. Because no matter who drives a race car, a faster race car goes faster. And how do you as a driver, a young driver, when you're earning your way in the world, how do you have enough, I don't say clout, because when you win a certain amount of races,

you have enough clout to get what you need. But as you're working your way through this journey, how can you find a way to be integrated into the team in a way that you have a say and that it's more than just you trying to be a better race car driver? It's you trying to help build a better race car and be a better race car. Because the two go hand at hand. And what you drive, Kevin, early in our careers, you and I could drive the same stuff. But later in our careers, we couldn't.

So if you have a teammate and your teammate is having success with a certain setup, that doesn't mean that's good for you. And so find it a way to work with your team to figure out what's good for you as a driver and not let them use all the data and all of those things against you. I'm not being ugly when I say that. It's a natural instinct, right? If I'm watching data and I'm seeing, well, Kevin Harvick's doing this and he's winning the race, that means that my driver has to do this, that doesn't take into account that Denny Hamlin, who's running second, is doing something completely different. And there is no right or wrong way. There's a lot of different ways. But for young drivers, it's hard to take that stand.

And I think competitively, I think that's the most difficult. line they have to walk. The business side of things are the whole other story because you serve, you know, the relationship is with your owner, but it's also with your sponsors. It's with NASCAR. It's with your teammates. Like building the, how do you build those relationships and how do you interact with everyone? That's a whole other story because those things are every bit as important as how fast you going to racetrack. So when you take it a step back, even even further. I believe the target has kind of moved on what you need as a driver in today's next-gen car era as far as the data and the things that come with it. So in the past,

I would say that the path to get here, I would be of the opinion three years ago that you needed to let the kids as they're developing from go-carts and late models and through the years, to be, let them explore some to make their own mistakes and let them try to develop on things by a little bit of trial and error structure at times. But it sure seems like there needs to be more structure as they go through because it's going to be data driven from here forward. And that's just, there's just too much data. You have to understand it. You have to be a part of it. What do you think is the correct path now? Is it still to let them explore? is it to let them explore a little bit and start to introduce them to the data,

overload them with data? Like, what is the right path to get to Cups? Is it trucks or Xfinity, right? I watch the Xfinity races and the truck races, and I see some of these guys go from truck and go straight to Cupp, and some of them go truck, Xfinity into CUP. What is the right path? Damn fine, no.

I really don't. I mean, I think that, I think ultimately, I do agree that experiencing as many different types of racing, I think that's really beneficial. And I think, like, for a very, let's talk Kevin for a second. For him, you know, like exposing him to different types of situations, I think that's how you learn. Even without success, right? Part of learning is not winning. Part of learning is having some failures.

And to do that, you have to expose them to things that are really difficult. And you always have to overexpose them. You have to put them in situations that they may not be completely ready for. But they have to, you learn as much from losing as you do by winning or maybe even more. So I think ultimately every person's different, right? And every situation is different in regard to what parents or sponsors have access to. but the big issue in regard to trucks, Xfinity, and Cup is lack of practice.

You and I, I mean, can you imagine how many more laps we had under our belt after three years or four years of running cup and a few years of Xfinity? So many. I mean, oh my God. I mean, it's, it's, so you have to use data. You have to use the simulator. You have to do those things because there's no other choice. But before you get here, you need laps.

And you just run as many laps as you can run and as many different kind of race cars and as many different conditions as you possibly can. And who are you racing against? Because the people you're racing against, they're teaching you how to race. And if you go run a quarter mile somewhere and all they do is wreck each other on every Friday night, what are you learning? Like you have to learn your skill. And the problem with the lack of practice that we currently are dealing with is that, damn, man, when we used to practice years ago, it was a race. I mean, we would pull that on the racetrack. We'd all pull that out together.

We were all, I mean, it was, you took pride in passing people and went in practice. And now even the way they practiced looks like a simulation run. Everybody spreads out. Everybody gets away from each other. All you're doing is driving your race car to its maximum capacity. you're not driving it, figuring out how to pass somebody. Even that's different. So once you get the cup in trucks and Expendity,

the only, you now, the only opportunity you have to learn how to race, not make lap time is in the race. And so when you come here, you better be ready. And that means whatever it is that you can get as many laps racing other people, whatever that is, that's what you need to be doing. So I want to shift gears a little bit and you know I watch I've become a little bit of a race fan

sitting at home and that's a lot different than even sitting in the booth and because I have a lot more time to digest things and I become that Monday morning quarterback I want to get a little bit specific here on the Super Speedway package I know we obviously have some issues with the cars turning over that need to be addressed

we've heard everybody talk about that when I look at Super Speedway racing and I come out of the car knowing how hard you have to push, how aggressive you have to be. And I watch the race on television now, and I see how aggressive the guys are. All the crashes happen from the energy five or six rows back, and it eventually just spits the leader out. What were we at with Super Speedway racing?

Because it scores great with the fans because they crash and spin out and do all those things. but from a driver's perspective, when I watch it and have experienced it, the gain that I get from pushing and shoving is not the reward that I get for the advantage that I gain on the racetrack. Are we at a point where we need to make some changes to the speedway package to make it so that the drivers can actually do something, or is it all about the show? You know, from the time Bobby Allison flipped to Talladego, we've been having this conversation. in the minute that restrictor plates got put on race cars, we've been having this conversation.

And, you know, we opened Pandora's box when we showed race fans what two and three wide can look like and you never could have shut it. Yeah. That's the problem, right? If we had the race I won at Daytonaun, it was a single file. it was maybe six or seven groups of cars running together. I had a problem, had to pit on the green. Well, that's not true. I had to pit, and I had to work my way back up to the field,

and I drove up there by myself. And then we played strategy to get the last spots. But I drove up through the field, not to take the lead, but I didn't have a drafting partner. I just, my car drove better than other people. I was in the gas, and they weren't, and I drove by them. if we ran that race today, it would be awful. People would hate it.

And so what's the formula? I don't know. The thing that I see today with the speedway racing is once you get three Y, how are you going to go anywhere? If you're three wide in the third row, how are you going to get the lead? How are you going to get the win? And so the negative of that is, just what I said,

the positive to that is that you better, be racing hard to get your track position and that means early in the race even when they're saving fuel there's always since the Daytona 500 and all the other races people have been willing to push

the gas and burn more fuel to get track position and so the advantage the good thing is to the three wide not being able to go anywhere is that people are trying to be the first rows of the three wide so that's made the early part of the racing pretty good but it still is a problem because you can't go anywhere and that's where we get that's where we get the big pushes and all that stuff

that causes the wrecks um i don't know i don't know the answer uh people are going to hate me for saying this the the the silliest looking thing we did was tandem racing but at the same token it kind of fixed the problem a little bit that it separated the pack it we didn't really have big big car accident more multi-car accidents it kind of separated the pack fast cars and still fast cars but it looks stupid. So I don't know. I don't know if we'll ever fix it because ultimately now that we have two wide, three wide for the entire race, if you don't have it, it's going to look boring. Yeah. Yeah. And I think when I watch it, I think mixing the rules up for the teams to chase a little bit and the drivers to chase a little bit would definitely keep it fresh. But I'm with you.

I mean, it's just a it's a constant moving target because you're still chasing, chasing the same thing that you're not going to fix. You're going to have cars turnover. You're going to have cars wreck. And you're going to have this, you know, single file is no good. Pack racing's great. So it is a constant debate. But I just, you know, I feel like from when I drove and the things that I watch, it's just so hard to gain anything with how aggressive you have to be. But as we go forward, we got a few minutes left here. What is, what is, I mean, you have a great view of the sport and and hear so many different opinions. What's our biggest challenge in NASCAR racing that we need to work on as we go into next year?

So that's a great question. And are we talking on track or off track? Well, I just think in the sport in general. I think is it charters? Is it on the track? Is it short track package? I mean, just one thing that you think is going to be something that would hold the sport back if we don't get solved. So I will say this, Kevin, like the mile and a half racing is great.

Like, I don't know that we've never had mile and a half racing as good as what we have today. And, you know, you and I both know the drivers will raise hell about, you know, the cars are terrible. Errolize. They won't more power and all that. Well, I hear them. And I, but at the same time, the mile and a half races look really good. Richmond gave us a look into what if, and you mentioned it about. speedway racing if you mix the rules up from time to time to change things up i like that idea i also

think we saw that at richmond right and having that alternate tire is that completely changed that race and how can we use that right to because amount i have race is great so with speedway racing fans seem to enjoy the thing that we've lacked a little bit is road courses this year all this year they've been really good um um um the short tracks aren't haven't been haven't been as good that that alternate tire seem to help that. So continuing to make the race in the best it can be. But I think bigger than all that, because I'll put our racing up,

I'll put our bad races up against any other form of racing in the world. I'm sorry. Now look, if you're going to compare it to a 30-lap race, okay, 30-lap race, yeah, it might be more action-packed for 10 minutes, but it's 10-minute race. But for a race that's going to last

over an hour, I'll put our race up against any racing in the world, even our bad races. We have to do whatever it takes to get more people watching it, to give more people that care about it, that have a passion about it, that love it, that want to pull against one driver and pull for another one. Because if you come and you watch, it's fun. It's a good time. It's entertaining.

It's competition. The biggest, the single biggest thing, charters, TV deals, sponsorship, all of those things hens around one thing, and that's how many people are watching it,

period. And the more people that we have that like this sport, not everybody's going to love everything, anything, right? We have to have people that want to tune in on Sundays, that want to go to the events on Sundays.

That's it. Everything revolves around that. and the challenge of what changes do we need to make that fans want to see versus how do we hold on to what NASCAR is and what it should be and what it was, that formula will always be a challenging formula. But at the end of the day, how many people are watching, what's the enthusiasm level about it? If we have enthusiastic fans, we're in a great shape.

and and to me that's that's the most important thing i mean obviously safety and i get all obviously but we need impassioned fans well i would agree with you on that and and i agree with you on on the fact that that you know the the racing is as good as anything that you can you can watch in the world i got my i got i got a pretty good debate going with with some of our european fans that i think I still think we could take Kyle Larson and put him in Max Verstappen's car. And in a couple days, he could be pretty darn close. I'm not saying he would ever be as fast as Max Verstappen, but he wouldn't be far off. So, you know, we have some of the best.

Yeah. And I will take, on top of that, bring me any of the best other drivers anywhere in the world and put them in all the things that Kyle Larson does and let's see how they can do that. Sorry, everybody. Kyle Larson is the best race car driver in the world. It's a non-debatable issue. It's it's not no one, no one can do what he's doing. And if you can, more power to you.

I just hadn't seen it. Right. I'm with you. All right, we got, I've got two fun questions. All this serious stuff we've got to get rid of. And you can't let Boyer out do you on this because he had a great story about, you know, going to, going to drive at other places. What is the one moment that you look back at and said, man, I would have really enjoyed driving

for that team at that particular time in my career? Was there a moment where you had a choice and you went down one path and you looked back and you say, well, that would have been fun? Not that I had a choice, but there was a moment in time where I had a small opportunity to drive for Rick Hendrick. And that would have been, look, I love the guys I drove for, but Rick, if you look at his record, he's been the best in our area.

In our era, he's been the best car owner. So I would have loved to have a chance to drive for Rick. I wouldn't have given up one of the opportunities that I had to drive for Jack or Richard because they changed my life. But if I could have added Rick to the recipe, that would have been awesome. So you, what was your, what was your, and I phrased this question to everybody. and I think it's important for you to think back as far as you can. I know that we're both getting old and it's hard to remember as far back as we need to.

But what was your first car that you bought and drove yourself on the street? Not a race car, but what was your first car that you drove? Still having a day, 1957 Chevrolet. I was coming home. My dad and I were coming home from Danville, Virginia. This car was sitting on the side of the road. I was a love tri-fives and I'm like, hey dad, dad, dad, dad, stop.

So he stopped and looked at it. It was $3,500 bucks. He said, I'll buy it. But it wouldn't run. He said, I'll buy it, but I'll not spend another dollar on it. If you want to get it run and you got to do it. I went to advance auto parts and I bought a set of spark plug wires and a set of spark plugs.

And I didn't know there was a fire in order. You know, I didn't know you had to put the spark plug wires on a certain way. And damn thing wouldn't run. Couldn't get it going. Finally, somebody gave me one of those, one of those, I think it was like a Chilton mechanics book or something. And I'm like, oh, I got to put this wire

on that plug. And that baby fired up. And Kelman and I went to the prom in the car. I crashed it. And I left my house. It was raining. I was hauling ass. I was going from second to third of year. I spun it out back into a telephone pole. And my grandmother's front yard took all the power out in South Falls. in Virginia. They totaled the car. And many years ago, I said to my dad, it's maybe awesome we could

find that car. And like an hour he found it. And I went and bought it and I restored it and I still have it today. That's awesome. Well, look, man, I'm super happy. There's no way Boyer beat that. There's no way. I'm super happy. Boyer's story was pretty good. So, but that, that is a, that is a classic story for sure. It's, it's pretty close to the best one. We had We had Michael Irving. He had his soon-to-be wife. He took her on her first date, and his floorboard was rusted out, so he had a floor mat that would cover it. And her shoe fell out of the floorboard, and they had to go back and get it so that they could go to dinner. But this one, this one's pretty good. So look, Jeff, I appreciate you taking the time. I'm so excited for Harrison and everything that he got to accomplish.

But more so for you and your family, you guys put so much time and effort into it. to this sport for your whole life and, you know, to be able to see this all come together this weekend was pretty special. So thanks for taking the time to talk to us. Thank you, buddy. I always enjoy talking to you. You know that. Well, we just want to thank Jeff for taking the time today to talk to us about his son Harrison Burton's first win and all his reaction and opinions of everything that's going on in the sport. And we appreciate you tuning in today. We hope you tune again next week as we'll be back.