Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour presented by NASCAR on FOX - Jeff Gordon Interview

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

On Episode 70 of ‘Kevin Harvick’s Happy Hour,’ Kevin Harvick is joined by Jeff Gordon! Kevin and Jeff discuss Gordon’s transition from being a driver to an executive for Hendrick Motorsports and reflect on Jeff’s storied racing career.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I didn't like him at that time because I was like, whoa, whoa, you know, this guy went from being my hero that I respect so much to now he's trying to get in my head and he's messing with me on the track and off the track. Yeah. So it was a love-hate relationship there for a little while. Five, four, three, two, one, a deal. Welcome to Kevin Harvick's happy hour, presented by NASCAR on Box. And today we have a conversation that I've been looking forward to Jeff Gordon, actually in the studio, in the seat, going to give us some insight. on everything Jeff Gordon. We've got so many things that we can talk to Jeff Gordon about. We don't know where to start. But looking forward to this one, should be a lot of fun.

Well, Jeff, first off, I appreciate you taking the time because it's way easier to have people sitting in this chair to have a conversation than it is on that screen. You're kind of probably old school like me where you'd rather talk to somebody than look through that screen. But first, and Delaney and I were, we were sitting around, we drove back and forth to Virginia this weekend

to watch Keelan race. So we were sitting in the car this week, and the first thing we talked about was just, what am I going to talk to Jeffrey? You've got so many things. I'm sorry that your car ride is that exciting. It's very intriguing to me because there are so many things that you've been able to experience from so many different generations of this sport. But I think when you look at, and our fans are interested in the past,

but they're also very interested in the current relevant topics of what's happening in today's world. explain to us exactly what your role is at Hendrick Motorsports because I don't know that anybody's ever said, hey, Jeff, what do you do on a daily basis at Hendrick Motorsports to help keep all this stuff aligned with everything that Hendrick Motorsports has going on? Yeah, that's a great question. And I think you have to walk in my shoes on a weekly basis or monthly basis to probably fully understand because it can change from day to day, which is exciting. nerve-wracking at the same time because it's exciting because there's never a dull moment.

There's always something that's coming up, whether, and it's not always with the race teams. I mean, we're doing some manufacturing now, and, you know, there's GM defense that we're building a business there with. I'm not heavily involved with that, but it still touches Hendrick Motorsports. Rick's got his car collection and, you know, the new 10-10s club over at the Charlotte Motor Speedway. But mainly, it's working with partners and, you know, doing what Rick Hendrick always did and still does for Hendrick Motorsports, which is just provide the best resources and put the best people together to go have success on the racetrack. You know, I think my whole life I've been a part,

especially when it's been something that's been good in my life, I've been a part of a team. You know, I go back to when my mom, my dad got me into quarter midget racing. We were a team. he handed me off to the next car owner and team that I drove for and I was a part of a team. And that's just been my whole life. You know, and obviously Hendrick Motorsports has been the ultimate team that I've ever been a part of. So, you know, I am now in a different role, but I'm a part of a big team. And luckily, we have amazing people, you know, that I get to work with Jeff Andrews and Scott Lampi and Chad Canals and obviously, you know, Rick, Marshall Carlson.

And the list just goes on and on and on. And so, you know, I kind of float around and just go where I feel like I'm most needed, but most of the time is spent with our marketing sales department on looking at our partnerships that we currently have. How do we expand those? How do we bring more value to them? You know, how do we build our driver's brands up and our own brand of Hendrick Motorsports? How do we find new partners?

There seems like there's always, you know, a race that's opening up. or one season you might be filled up and the next season you're not, so you might be planning further down the road. And honestly, then one day it's, hey, we've got, you know, the CEO of this company that's on campus and, you know, we're going to have lunch together.

And it just, honestly, there's just constantly things. Now, I still like to stay connected to the race teams from the competition standpoint. So I go to the competition meetings. We have tasks. I'm in meetings. I'm always in meetings. I'm answering email.

Listen, I'm in meetings. I mean, it's quite a departure from what, you know, I know from being behind the wheel. But it also feels very comfortable because I know racing. And luckily, I've gotten to know the business of racing. So you get out of the car and were you pretty involved on the car side when you drove from the sponsorship standpoint? Were you pretty heavily involved from that side? Because it sounds like you like the marketing sponsor relationship side. of everything that you do.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it goes early back to Hendrit Motorsports, and it goes back to when, you know, we just won our third championship in 1998. It was amazing year. You know, Rick was sick. Ray Everingham got his, you know, dodged, you know, maybe probably more into 99. But coming off this amazing 98 year where we're like, what more can we possibly do? I mean, we just had this ridiculous season and you're like, how do you top that? And I think that came with change.

And it was change in many ways for the better for me, which allowed me to grow. You know, it made me, when Ray left, I didn't, I couldn't rely on him as much. You know, I always relied on him. He ran the team. He guided me. He pushed us. He did everything for that team, you know, and Rick did everything for the organization. And so I just got to go in there and drive and bring my helmet.

bag and that was about it. After that, I had to grow up. And, you know, Ray goes on to Dodge. Rick says, I want you to be here forever. And so, you know, that came with some equity and just more involvement and in a lifetime contract. And so, and I was always involved with the licensing. Earnhardt kind of introduced me to that.

My dad, you know, my stepdad was heavily involved in that side of it, too. So I was always interested in the business side. it just wasn't as much with the race team. Right. And then so what comes along with that is you get, you know, your quarterly books and you look at the finances of it and you go, wow, why is Rick Hendrick paying me so much money? But and then when Jimmy came along as well, you know, Rick said, all right, you know, if you think that this is a guy that we need to bring here and you are, I was, we knew about Jimmy.

Ricky Hendrick knew about Jimmy. Rick knew about Jimmy. Chevy knew about Jimmy. It was really about the fourth team, adding the fourth team and what value that brought to Hendrick Motorsports. What we saw was training in the sport and sharing more information. And so I pushed pretty heavily for that. And so then that was another level of, okay, well, then you're going to help us get a sponsor. So, you know, I would go to sponsor pitches and, you know, was right there with the, when Lowe came, came on board. So I think it's just been, building over time. And then, you know, when it started getting closer to retirement, because I had some back issues, I knew that I wasn't going to race forever. And Rick and I start having conversations. I feel like I could talk to him about anything. You know, he's just been that kind of. What a relief, though, to have some. It's amazing. I mean, he's been so incredible, you know, just obviously provided the best resources and people and race team you could ever ask for. But on top of that, the best advice, personally, business-wise, you know, it's just been an amazing

person in my life. And so I could always be open and honest with him about a lot of things, personal and business-wise. And so when that time came, you know, I just was honest with him about what I felt was going on my body and my back. And I was trying to get it better. And I did. I got in the best shape of my life and my back was better, but still was. wasn't going to allow me to race for a lot longer, or at least I didn't think. And he taught me

into going a little bit longer than I wanted to. But even then, I said, you know, I think I'd like to pursue TV and if there was an opportunity to go in a booth or work with NBC or Fox, then I'd like to pursue it. But he, and he was very supportive, but he said, go ahead and do that. But, you know, the plan is this. And we need you here. We want you here. And I think that, you know, that really helped me figure out what does the path look like post-driving. So you go through the TV piece of it and you go through what, two, three years? I think I actually did six. Oh, my God.

Yeah, I know. It went by super. It's either five or six. It went by fast. You get to the five or six years of television. And what was that moment that said, okay, I've got too much on my plate and I need to do, why did that change and not do TV anymore? Yeah, so what happened was, I looked at doing TV and it's half, you know, the season, great schedule and the folks at Fox were amazing. And, you know, I just, I mean, I just went straight from a team environment into another team environment. I don't have to tell you, you know what it's like now. And I like that. I like that.

I like the live action and there's pressure and, you know, there's a real responsibility there. Or a new system. Yeah. Well, it's fun. Yeah. I've found. Yeah. And it was challenging, and I like that.

But what was happening as soon as TV would end, I immediately, and even in between, I was going into the office and trying to do more things with Hendrick Motorsports. I wanted to stay in touch with it because I knew second half the season, this is what I do kind of full time. Right. Maybe took a long vacation the first year. A much needed long family vacation. That got interrupted by Dale Jr. getting hurt. But no, so the second half the year, I found myself trying to play catch up in everything that was going on at the shop and with business and the teams. And I just, I didn't, I felt like I was a stranger.

You know, like I'd walk in, they're like, okay, he does TV, but he's got this role over here. It just, it just, I didn't feel like, I felt like I was, I was doing a good job with TV. I didn't feel like I was doing a good job on that side, or really adding value. And so then it came time to re-up on TV. And Rick and I said, hey, how about I do three more years and then I'm full-time. And he's like, I think that would work good with the timing of what we had going on at Hendrick Motorsports. And it was the right move. I mean, I learned so much about a different side of the business by doing TV.

And I love that. I love the people that I got to interact with, the friendships that I made and the things I learned about business. So I think it really added a lot of value to what I'm doing now as vice chairman, Hendrik. But I realized how much I was missing by not being there on a daily basis and really being focused on it all the time. Yeah. I want to go back, I want to go back a little bit to the team and just talk about this year because the way that this year has gone, I mean, you've had so many fast cars and so many scenarios. And now we're here leading into Martinsville.

and you've got basically two of your cars that are going to have to race each other for the way. Don't get me started on owner points too. Yeah. Oh, man. I hadn't even looked at the owner points this week. Yeah, it's still, that's going to be my, we've had to deal with this like three years in a row. Yeah. Well, and so how do you handle that scenario?

Do you just let the teams go on a weekly basis? Does the information shut off on the weekends to just let them race each other? How do you guys handle that internally? Honestly, this is why I love about Hendrick is. I feel like in these scenarios, these guys double down on the amount of time spent working not only individually as teams, but working with one another and in sharing information. Like, they believe they have, it's taken a long time. I've seen how it's evolved over time, but they truly believe that I might be able to get something more than what I was thinking out of one of the other drivers or one of the other crew chiefs or one of the other engineers. And so they, because they understand the value in it, then they give more as well. Right.

Because if I give more, I'm going to get more. And then they find the value of just getting in this room and sharing all this information and the database and, you know, the GM Tech Center, everything. Just utilize all the tools to the fullest. So, I mean, obviously we ran good there in the spring. I think they've changed the tire a little bit. The weather's going to be slightly different. So you just don't know what it's going to be like.

but I feel more confident going into this Martinsville than I feel like we did last fall. There's worse places that you guys get going, for sure. But that does, you know, potentially play out to we got to race one another. And, I mean, basically you got chasing a must-win situation. That one's pretty easy. Yeah, I mean, that one's pretty easy. You know, Bell's in a very comfortable position points-wise. He would have to have something catastrophic.

So now you look at Larson, you look at Byron, and they both run good at Martinsville, Byron won there earlier. You know, this year, I think what I think Kyle won last year, a year before. So they're both, you know, going to be fighting hard. But you want to be in the scenario where they're fighting for themselves, you know, to win for the win amongst themselves. You hope it's not with a Denny Hamlin or with, you know, a Ryan Blaney or somebody that's also on the outside.

You realize Linda's going to be mad. She expects all four of those cars to be in there. I'll never forget. That is the best clip that I've heard on television. Why didn't we have four in there? I know. And some people didn't catch it, right? Well, I call it.

I know. I did too. And I'll never forget when she said it to me. And so, you know, we've been building on that this whole year. I mean, she came into our... It was possible. I mean, she's been at... You know, we have like these big playoff luncheons where we...

It's a kickoff. We kick off the season. We kick off the playoffs and we bring all the employees together in our team center. And we have speakers or we, you know, do something to just kind of, you know, get everybody rallied and excited. And we had Linda on the stage this year. And I reminded all the teams and the drivers of what she said last year. And she brought it up again. She goes, I expect all four.

And I think that's what made Charlotte Roval post race so difficult for. me because I remember being in victory. Yeah, I was in victory lane and we had all four through, never been done, history. And I'm looking Linda in the eye. And I could just see how excited and proud she was. She's like, oh, we're going to do it. We're going to get four all the way. Right. She's still, she's just this very positive and motivating, you know, person, even though she's quiet. You don't always see that side of her. It's super competitive. It's very quiet, competitively intimidating. Yes, exactly. But because she's quiet and she doesn't express that all the time when she does it's extremely powerful and and so it's been

awesome seeing her engage as much as she has this year with it our being our 40th anniversary was you know a lot of the driving force behind that but um so that was disappointing to that was a huge letdown because i like the way you handled it though yeah hey this is what happened this is what went wrong and it was over i mean the facts for the facts you know if i we we will go fight, you know, as far as we need to the, all depths of the ocean, if we feel like, you know, our teams are in a position, right, they're in the right, and it was a technicality or something like this wasn't, you know, in the case, just missed. But what I'm getting now is how disappointed it was that we didn't move all four to the round of eight. And so now here we are,

right, where I felt like we had three good chances, you know, to get three guys through. And, and now we're trying to figure out kind of how to get won. I mean, you know, if something miraculous happens, we can get two. But we're going to fight all the way to the checker flag. You never know what, especially Marsville. You never know what's going to happen. I mean, you just never, it seems like any of these races, you just never know what's, I mean, I look at the last lap. The race has been good.

It has. It has been good. I mean, you know, you can talk about the car and the side force and, you know, like this weekend, a little flat tire and you got damage to the underwing. There's some things that can be cleaned up. But for the most part, I think we've seen some really amazing race, especially on the amount of a house. Have you tested this car at all?

You know, I was supposed to do the rain test at Martin's film. Yeah. I got COVID. That got can't, or you know, for me it got canceled. I was going to drive it one other time. And I haven't. I've driven the garage 56 car. But that's a lot different.

And it wasn't on an oval. I wish you could drive it. It's the oddest thing to drive. And the process of going back for me and trying to retrain your feet and do all the things that they do with the car. And the, I mean, the throttle piece of it wasn't as difficult. But the braking and the feel and it's just a, it's a totally different feel. And one of the things I enjoy the most with the time that I have to, you know, when I'm not working, we're not on a family vacation or with the kids doing activities.

for them, what I enjoy doing the most is going to a track and doing track days and just driving different cars and experiencing them. Ray Evertonham, and I do a lot of that, do it with Rick as well. So I would like to drive it, but I wouldn't have wanted to race it. And the reason is because where I got to in my career was, you know, I did certain things really well and the car had to adapt to me. I wasn't very good at adapting to the car. it took me a little bit longer.

I probably could have over time, but when I was at the end of my career, I was like, there's no more adapting this old dog. I kind of got to the same point. It was a lot of, it was like, man, this is way too much work to figure out

how to drive the car. Be bad for your back, too. Yeah. I think when you look at, when you look at your guys, I'm a fan of all the race car drivers. I like drivers. Yeah.

I'm pro, I'm pro-driver. And, you know, but when I look at Kyle Larson, he's obviously, he's just different than, than the rest of them. When you guys decided to go after Larson, because I saw it from the Ford side

and Tony going after Larson, and Ford was like, no, we're not going to do it. Explain to us the process of just kind of reintroducing Kyle Larson to the world and how Hendrick Motorsports said, okay, this is what we want to do and why you thought it was so important to get Kyle Larson back into one of your seats and obviously the choice now speaks for itself. but just explain that whole process of, hey, this is what we want to do.

This is the direction Hendrick Motorsports wants to go. Yeah, I mean, you look back on it now and you go, oh, that must have been an easy thing. It wasn't, not at all. But Rick always talks about this is a people business. It's all about relationships and all about people. And so the first thing that took place was sitting down with, and I'll even go back way further than that. I remember Kyle Larson coming to Hendrick Motorsports before he ever even came into NASCAR. I think he was with Jeff Dickerson.

And I knew of him because of Sprint Car racing, but I didn't know him. And he sat down. I've always had an office at Hendry. I wasn't doing work back then. I just had an office. Somewhere to keep all the trophies. Now I'm doing work. But so he came and I met him.

and and this is right at the time where Rick was had committed to really supporting Chase Elliott and and you know got with Bill I think Ray Evanham had a role in that as well and so you know I mentioned something to to Rick about Kyle back then and he's like you know we're we're just don't have the the right things in place to be able to do that right now we'll keep an eye on them and I remember the first Xfinity race he drove or second race Rick called me he's like darn we missed out on that one didn't it so he and i've talked about you know for for a while obviously chase has been amazing and that was the right move to make there as well um and sometimes you just can't do more than than one at a time it it you know when you're when you're walking somebody

through a program like what we have it it's it's extensive and it's that's paid off huge for us so when this you know came about where where Kyle might be available you know i i i I talked to Rick and he and he was eager and interested as well because he knew his talent. But he said, I got to sit down face to face with them. And, you know, we made that happen. We went over to his house and Rick and myself and Kyle sat down. And you just, you just knew that this guy's mind and heart were in the right place. And that he was willing to do everything that it took to get back into a top-notch ride.

and, you know, his interest, you know, at that time was Hendrick Motorsports. I had heard, you know, that Tony, and I wouldn't have been surprised. You know, we're both past racers, Tony spends a lot more time to dirt tracks than I did. So I knew that there was probably something, you know, there that we might be competing with, put it that way. But where I go back to relationships is that when Rick was sitting face to face with Kyle and believed that, this is a young man that needs a second chance, we would love to have here for him to then go and have those conversations with all the people that it took to make sure that that happened.

And sometimes only Rick can make those calls. There's not many people. Right. But he believed in it. And he made sure that other people understood his commitment, what Kyle's commitment was. And that's what made it happen. Yeah, and you wound up with a great human in a great situation in Kyle Larson.

Maybe a better Kyle Larson, honestly. I just think he's just so much more mature. Sometimes you have to go through some tough things in life to get to a better place. And I see that in him today, not just as a race car driver, but as a human being. Yeah, and that's one thing that I always tell people, they're like, what would you have done different? I said, well, probably nothing, because those hard moments are really the moment. that teach you how to do the next thing better.

Definitely. And I think that you are exactly right. Well, now you've seen him in the Indy 500. You've seen him win Cup championships. I mean, in my mind, it's realistic. Like, he can go to, he can go win the Indy 500. I don't think you guys would be doing it if you didn't think he could win it, right? Yeah.

It's not a show. I mean, he blew everybody away this year. Yeah. You know, I mean, I've always been impressed with this, this talent. you know, to be able, and it's because he's so versatile. It's not just what he does in a stock car. I think there are a lot of great stock car drivers out there, but I think for him to be able to jump from a stock car to a dirt sprint car to a late model

and then go and get in an Indy car and be good at it, like pretty quick. That's a unique skill that just not everybody has. So it's super impressive and even all the IndyCar, you know, people on the team and around that industry were super impressed as well. And I mean, it's expected that as a rookie, you're going to make some mistakes. And I think that Kyle looked back on it, said, man, if I cleaned up a couple of those things, I'm like top three or four at the Indy 500. And so, yeah, I think that that certainly helped that decision in doing it again. And I think Hendrick Cars and the Hendrick brand, I think, benefited from it and some of our other partners

that were part of it too. And it was fun. And, it didn't end well, right? I mean, because of what happened in Charlotte with the weather, I think immediately we were like, we're not ever doing this again. And then as we got about a month down the road and thought about it a little bit more, and Rick put some real thought into it.

It was great for racing. It was great for racing. And it was, you know, Rick, Rick goes back to data and analytics and a lot of his team, the marketing group does as well. and the numbers, you know, didn't lie. They were good.

And plus, you don't want to end a story like that. No. And so, you know, we certainly hope the weather works out better next year. I'm going to go totally off subject because we have this common tie that goes back to 2001. Yes. But everybody's seen us race at Atlanta, and they know how all that worked out. It ends the same way every time. It ends the same way every time.

But that's not my question. My question is, my question is your relationship with Dale and how did that start? Because it became this very unique relationship. And you know how Dale can be. You obviously spend a lot of times. Sometimes that is easy to break into that little barrier of having that relationship with him. And sometimes it's hard. How did your relationship with Dale start?

And just explain what that meant to the growth of your career. and your path and notoriety and everything that came with it. Yeah, no, I mean, probably didn't recognize it at the time, but looking back on it, it was huge. I'm trying to think of, I don't know if I remember the very first time that I, you know, we used to do these test sessions at Daytona in the wintertime, like three-day test sessions, which... At least three days.

Yeah, at least three days and lots of downtime. Yeah. So, you know, when you do that, I mean, I know I met him briefly in Xfinity when I was racing, you know, with, he would come and race those Xfinity races every once in a while. So I met him, but I didn't really get to know him until I got into Cup. And I don't think that we really got to spend quality time together until maybe year two. And I think I remember at Daytona, we were testing, and he came over to Monday. car and we were just chatted he he talked to ray more than he talked to me but we would because he was wanting set up stuff yeah well we heard the story about ray building him shocks oh yeah i know i didn't

know about that yeah but but so i think he had a lot of respect for ray i think he had a lot of respect for hendrick because you know he almost was a hendrick driver there's there's that story too that goes way back but um and so he and i would chat and so i think that i went over to his car asking him about something that was happening probably racing-wise. I'm sure it was on the track. And I saw his seat and how he was sitting in the car. And I was just like, what is this? Right. And so that was the first thing was him trying to explain to me why he needed to sit in the car that way.

Yeah. And why my way was bad. You should have driven it. Right. Well, I sat in it. Oh, my gosh. I never drove it, but I sat in it. And so I think that kind of clicked first. And then after I won the Brickyard, that was sort of, you know, he really wanted to win the brickyard. So even though he was mad, I think it still was sort of this thing that started bringing this a little bit closer together. My popularity started going up. His popularity was obviously huge. And so the souvenir business was something he was very involved and very focused on. And so as he saw my popularity starting to grow, he started talking to me about business.

And I don't know why. I always look back and go, was there, what was, was there something in it for him? Yeah. There was with action performance when that went public. That was, but I think he genuinely was like, rivalries are good for the sport. There needs to be, you know, other personalities that rise in the sport. And that's good. You know, I think he thought Rusty Wallace was good.

He thought Mark Martin was good, you know, and Jeff Gordon and all these other guys. But he wanted to be number one, of course. And then 95, we race against one another for a championship. So there's a lot of the jabs going back and forth in the media. So that certainly, I didn't like him at that time because I was like, whoa, whoa. You know, this guy went from being my hero that I respect so much to now he's trying to get in my head. And he's messing with me on the track and off the track. So it was a love-hate relationship there for a little while.

and then, man, towards, you know, probably five, six years after that, all of a sudden we're owning a property together and we're benefiting from business together and we're talking a lot about the business. And shoot, we even went fishing together. You know, like there was just things that he would invite me over to his boat and just what I think where he changed for me is he showed me not only the business. side. He showed me a different side of the lifestyle, right? Like he, we were in Japan. And so I think he kind of took me under his wing because he knew I was fresh and new and, and, and a curious kind of, not rival, but just, I looked up to him. I respected him, but at the same time, we were competitors, but he knew that I wanted to learn from him if he was willing, and he was. And so I remember, we were in Japan.

we'd done the race, went back to Tokyo, and we had one night before we left the next day, or maybe that night we left, I can't remember. And we went to this Japanese steakhouse, which I loved Japanese steakhouses. But this one's a little bit different where they brought out shrimp that were still alive and put them on the grill and cook them right in front of you. And then they like cut the head off and then they serve it to somebody at the table. And of course, he picked me. And so he's like, no, Jeff, you know, this is like for good luck.

There's a delicacy. I'm like, and of course he tells me to do it. I did it. And I mean, I didn't love it, but it was like, now it's a story, right? And he, I'll never forget, he got me into drinking vodka and grapefruit juice, too. You know, like he was like, oh, this is the best drink. He was culture in you. Exactly.

Yeah. And he did that. I mean, you know, and so it made. me want to look at beyond racing and, and, you know, how to, how to enjoy racing, work hard at it, but enjoy the fruits of your labor. And I saw that through him. And I don't know if a lot of people knew how high in he lived. Yeah. I mean, he did it right, but he, he didn't bring that out in public. Right. Well, I think it's a, you know, it's just an, it's an interesting time. Obviously, I went to RCR to do the things that I did because of Dale.

You were obviously grew up a fan, and I think that it changed the direction of so many things when we went through 2001, changed my career, but it changed the direction of the sport and everything that went with it because of he had his hands in so many things that affected the path and decisions of souvenirs or cars. He had this immediate path

that he could just walk in the NASCAR trailer and start campaigning or, politicking for whatever he wanted to do. But it just was an interesting time. I was a little lost, you know, I think a lot of us were when he wasn't there. Because I think the sport in so many ways where our identity was tied so closely to Dale. But to your point, like I would, if I saw him going up into the hauler, you know, the NASCAR hauler, I knew he was up there campaigning for something that was going to be good for him. So I had to be right there behind him, you know, like you had to keep it out. It's your side. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, and we went on these fishing trips with NASCAR and then souvenir business side of things. I could always, what are you up to? What are you doing? Right. Even investments, you know, and so I know that the first year or two, there would be these moments where I was like, I normally would have been doing this sitting with Dale. Right. And I had to, again, this is another opportunity or, you know, moment in my life where I had to grow up. Yeah.

and be, you know, a little bit more of a leader, because he was always the leader of the garage. Yeah. Just said, well, what are we doing? You know, and he would guide you and tell you, and I felt like a little bit more of that was on my shoulders after that. Yeah. Well, I could sit here and talk about stuff for two hours. You got to go sit in front of your computer and get these meetings going for the day. I've got to answer some emails.

I'm way behind on. But I got one last question. What was your first car? What was the first car when you were 16? What did you drive? Yeah, I drove a Chevy, 1980. heavy stepside pickup truck. Really?

It was an old rust bucket beater that three on the tree. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Showing our age, Jeff. I know. I know. But now my dad, my stepdad, he found the truck.

And we kind of talked. We're going to do a project together. We painted it, you know, disassembled the truck, bought new parts, new wheels, and lowered it down. And we were going to build an engine, which never ended up happening. We built it, but never went in the truck. But yeah, so it was kind of a cool project that we went together and did together. And, yeah, it was fun.

I do have to tell one story. So founded this used car a lot in Jamestown, Indiana. We were living in Pittsburgh at the time, which is probably about 10 miles, I guess, away from Pittsburgh. And so he's like, hey, found the truck for our project. Just go in there. They'll hand you the keys. and, you know, I'll meet you at home. I'm like, okay.

So I'm like, no, you said it's a stick, right? He said, yeah, yeah. And he didn't tell me his three on, you know, three speed on the column. And I had heard of them, but I'd never drove one before. And, you know, there's no indicator of what gear you're in. So it was parked out on them, on the sidewalk, or towards the sidewalk, but there was like a chain in front. And so I go and get in.

I'm like, oh, man, he trained. me, you know, so I get in, I found a gear that would go forward on, and I lowered the chain down because I couldn't find reverse. Right. And I just boom, boom, drove over the driveway. And I think I drove in second gear all the way home because I was trying to find it, but I couldn't find it. So did you have to break it to him and say, hey, how do I? Oh, yeah. Of course. A quick lesson. Oh, yeah. So I got home and I was like, all right, you're going to have to tell me because I got home and he was smiling. When I drove in, he was smiling because he kind of knew. And he's, oh, you figured out. I was like, yeah, I figured out one of them. I said, you're going to have to help me

on the other three or other two. Great story. Well, thanks for taking it time. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Great job for everything you're doing, the show and TV. It's been fun to watch. And you bring a lot, you bring a lot. You know, it's so important, I think, for somebody like yourself that has the credentials and the championships and the wins to be able to have that reflected in the broadcast and the fans hearing it from somebody like you. So I appreciate you doing that. I'm enjoying it. Thank you for coming in. You bet.

I want to thank Jeff for taking the time to come in the studio and give us a little insight about everything HMS, Jeff Gordon, all that he has on his plate. Hope you guys enjoyed the conversation. We'll see you next week.