Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour presented by NASCAR on FOX - Kenny Wallace Interview

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

Kevin Harvick is joined by former NASCAR driver and fan favorite Kenny Wallace for a wide-ranging and entertaining conversation. Together, they look back on their shared history, discuss how Kenny’s big personality helped make him so popular with fans, and why he believes today’s young drivers should embrace being more open and entertaining. Kenny also reflects on some of the biggest moments of his career, including finishing runner-up to Dale Earnhardt Sr. in his final NASCAR victory, and what he’s learned from a lifetime in racing. LINK TO SUBMIT PICKS FOR THE LAS VEGAS: https://forms.gle/St2E5pkMyJENhBum8 0:00 - Intro 0:33 - Kenny Wallace Joins The Show! 2:16 - Racing Local Dirt Tracks 6:34 - Staying Relevant 11:30 - Coming From A Racing Family 19:30 - Dale Earnhardt Sr.’s Power 22:21 - Sponsorship Back In The Day 23:28 - Pushing Earnhardt To Win At Talladega 37:09 - First Car Story Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

They missed Kevin Harvick jumping across the hood of that car, getting ready to beat Greg Biffles. When I wasn't running good, it was like, all right, how can I stir some of this shit up? I'm 62 years old and I'm still the baby. That race car really keeps me going. Dale Earnhardt Sr. was too strong for NASCAR. Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Art,

presented by NASCAR on Fox. And today we have a legend. And one of what became one of my good friends through the years to be able to talk to and communicate with, and Kenny Wallace. So thanks for taking the time today. Kevin, thank you for asking me. And yes, we have shared a lot in common.

You ran my dirt car one time. You taught me how to get around Atlanta Motor Speedway at the end of my career. Yes, you've been good to me. Yeah. And, you know, I think that, I mean, so I assume you're still racing the dirt car. Yeah.

Correct? Yeah. Yeah. So what motivates you to keep racing? I mean, I know that you've raced the dirt car for a long time, but it seems like you and Strader have just kept going. Yeah, that's a really good question. And sometimes when I'm in the shoot at 1130 and we're getting ready to run an A-M-A-N,

I think, what am I doing? I think it's the fear of not having nothing to do. And sometimes when I'm tired, it's like, how do I get enough energy to go up to the shop and unload the car and start the process? I like the process of racing. you know, it's in sections. It's like the process of the maintenance of the race car, the washing, the working on the chassis, then you get to the racetrack. I like the process. It keeps me busy. And I truly believe that, you know, remember when Ray Everingham had that Jeff Gordon, all the quotes refused to lose.

And my new one is don't let the old man in. I can feel myself tight. lightening up if I get lazy. Yeah. And I think that race car, well, I don't think that race car really keeps me going. So you're obviously always have been very open, very opinionated, not scared to say what you say. And so Keelan and I have been traveling around the country. I really had no intention of racing much when I retired. I'll never race a cup car again.

But, you know, I think that going to these short tracks with him and having the opportunity to race with him has opened my eyes to a few things. And I'm sure that you've probably seen this well before I did. All the hardcore NASCAR race fans still live around the short tracks. Yes. They're all there. 100%. They are all freaking there. And I think that the one thing that I hear a lot is, like, when we went to Evergreen, they took the truck series away from,

Evergreen and have never been back to that particular facility. Now, would it take time? Why do you think that even if it's the Truck Series or the Xfinity Series or the Cup series, why do you think that those fans aren't as engaged with the top tier of NASCAR racing as they still love racing? They still love going to the short track. When we went to Evergreen and we went to Colorado, So many, when we went to Michigan, we went to Owasso Speedway up there.

Why do you think that those fans are not engaged with the top level of motorsports like they used to be? On the NASCAR side. First of all, it is what I call a societal shift. I see this when I go on the Cowl Petty Charity Ride. The Cow Petty Charity Ride is made up everybody that helps give money and raises money for the Victory Junction gang camp. These are all older people. and they're like, man, we love Richard Petty, we love Kyle, we love you, Herman. Man, we just don't watch them NASCAR races anymore.

Schrader says it right. This is why you sure are missing some really good races. They're very competitive. I know this sounds crazy. Years ago, my brother Rusty, he's still his friend, Dick Pacer, who's Rossi's business. Oh, yeah. Dick would say, hey, give me a free hat. It's just that simple.

some reason the NASCAR fans feel like they were done wrong. Give them a free hat. Give them something to engage to love NASCAR. There are some mistakes, and NASCAR has admitted it before you listen to, you know, Steve O'Donnell on some podcasts, and Steve's like, you know, we've done some things wrong, we're trying to make it right. Give them a free hat. And of course, this is cliche what I'm saying. You don't really give them a free hat. Maybe. Maybe. But they want to feel loved again. Their heart is broke. You know, you're gone.

Kevin Harvich doesn't race anymore. Dale Earnierner Sr. has passed away. Rusty don't race. All our heroes in NASCAR are gone. And we love these racers today, but they're scared to death. Yeah. I love Jeff Gordon. He's a good friend of ours.

But Jeff is scared to death. He won't allow, I mean, All his drivers are not allowed to speak. And if they do, they're just toting the company line. Nobody can relate. You know, they miss you. They miss Kevin Harvick jumping across the hood of that car. And you getting ready to beat Greg Biffle's ass.

That was showmanship, man. They missed that. They can relate to that. NASCAR is so clean right now because these young kids have been taught, you know, and they've been taught. Don't say nothing wrong. You'll be fine. You know what the crazy part, you mentioned the showmanship side of it, I was always thinking about that.

When I wasn't running good, it was like, all right, how can I stir some of this shit up? Yeah. To keep yourself in the headlines, to keep your sponsors happy. And I'll never forget who the CEO was at Anheiser Bush at the time. But when we did the deal, he said, whatever you do, when you're not running good, at least be spectacular. So we get on TV. Yes. And that was, there was always those moments.

I was always thinking about, all right, he's being a dick. So I'm going to try to just pick at him a little bit just to see if you could get something stirred up. Is that how you were, too, just trying to keep yourself relevant in times where you weren't running good or things weren't going right or you needed to get something across? Because I always thought about keeping yourself relevant. I still do it, right? Like you're still trying to go out and do autograph sessions and be involved in the sport. And I think it's just because it's ingrained in my brain that if you, that if you let your guard down and disappear, you're gone.

Because you see so many of our guys disappear. And even talking to Jimmy Johnson, he talked about how I did everything I could do to not do anything. And my brand paid for it. I always thought about my brand. Is that, I mean, how you were? 100%. Yeah.

I'll start like this. First of all, I was born the way I am. Yeah. Like none of it's really enough. Got it natural. I got it natural. I was born hyperactive. They put me on Ritalinland.

I mean, Kevin, there's times I look at myself in the mirror. I'm like, would you please shut up? I mean, I exhaust me. You know, you have your subconscious, you know. So it is true. There's two or three of us, you know. There's the person that knows to straighten up, be right. Then there's an entertainer.

I mean, we see several backstories in good documentaries of, you know, when somebody gets off the stage, you know, they quiet down. Yeah. But I'll never forget Felix Sabatis. he said to me, never fold your tent. Never fold your tent. I mean, they even bluff in card games in poker. You know, I don't got a good hand, but you got a bluff.

So I'm going to go with you. I remember the night at Richmond that you went at it with Ricky Rudd. Yeah. I mean, in my mind, I already remember Kevin Harvick's pivotal, unbelievable moments. Yeah. And I just named them to you. You going after Biffle, you going after Rudd. I remember those.

Right. They remember Bimonis. Now, for me, first of all, you have a God-given talent. You're a great race car driver. I admire you because you're a good businessman. You and Mother Function, Josh Jones. You guys got it going on. You're extremely smart.

Your whole family. So for me, I got to skin the cat a different way. I'm a good race car driver. I'm not a great race car driver. you've taught me some driving techniques that I'm very thankful for. So how could I stay in the game as long as I have? It was my gift of Gab. I have had the greatest sponsors in the history of NASCAR.

And you know the ones. I mean, whether it was Square D or AutoZone or, you know, they go on and on, right? Jigs, Sonoco. I mean, I've had some of the greatest sponsors. and they have said to me before, you know, we could hire a driver that has wanted some races, but he don't sell a product. Yeah.

Let's go to football. Let's go to your area. Joe Montana. Our own people here at Fox. You know, I worked for Fox for 14 years. I heard stories that, yeah, we put Montana in the TV booth, and he was horrible. Yeah.

He's not a TV guy. Right. He was a great football player. Yeah. So for me, to answer your question, I'm a good race car driver. I'm not a great one. How do I stay in this game? And I learned to sell product to do what I love to do. Kevin, I love racing. I once asked my friend Billy Smith, I said, Billy, why do I still race? He looked at me, said, you love it. That's right. And I think when you have that passion for what you do, but you also love what you do. And when you get into that grind of week after week after week at the highest level, sometimes it can wipe a little of that out. And I think for me personally, the last year, it really reminded me why I loved a race. Yes. And, you know, getting to do all that for the last time was was a

reminder. But the short tracks never, never once in my life that I think would remind me why I loved a race more than it does. I want to say one last thing. You and I, are the same at that. When I go to these local short tracks, it reminds me why I wanted to be a NASCAR driver. Yes. Because I can interview right now in Kenny Conversation. I'll have Bobby Pierce. I'll have Jonathan Davenport, Nick Hoffman. I mean, I'll have the greatest dirt racers of all time. And they all want to be NASCAR. Yeah. But times have changed. They don't know how to get the money to go do it. I, my timing is right, I got into NASCAR. You had pure talent, but we all get in a NASCAR a different way.

Yeah. And, you know, I think it's, it's the dirt, the dirt world has changed. Those guys are making pretty good money now. Yeah, they're doing okay. So, you're Kenny Wallace, your brother is Rusty Wallace. You guys obviously had similar but different paths. Yeah. What was the, what was the, how did Rusty's dynamic?

help what you did on the racetrack or off the racetrack. Did it help at all? Did he ever help you? Yeah, I mean, I think that the Wallace family dynamic and just a racing background and would be interesting for people to know. Number one, I literally love Rusty and Mike. I got the best brothers. They spoil me.

I'm 62 years old and I'm still the baby. Yeah. I love it. So my dad was really good. My dad was a great race car driver who won 400 races, No different than a Ralph Earnhardt. Rusty was always good. He was also a gadgeteer.

Like if there was anything broke around the house, Rusty would fix it. Rusty has a God-given talent. And he really wanted to race. So I'll never forget Don Perdome, we're at Vegas. and Miller Brewing was a great sponsor of mine, and I had Red Dog as a sponsor.

Right. Was that on the truck? Yeah. But also on the hood of my Xfinity car, Bush car. Yeah. Well, I won three races. You know, I only got nine Xfinity wins, but three of them were at Richmond.

Okay. And we did tease marketing. We put the Bulldog, the Red Dog, dog. Right. That's what we put was that dog face on the hood of the car, and I won the damn race. At that time, it was called tease marketing. It's like we're not ready to unveil.

We're not ready to show everybody the beer yet, but let's tease everybody. And we got lucky. I won the race. So I was heavily involved in Miller Brewing, their convention, things like that. So Don Perdome had Larry Dixon. They had Miller Brewing just like Rusty.

Prudome is a very good friend of mine. We talk just about once a week right now. but he helped me in life. He looked at me, and he says, you know, your brother Rusty's just damn good. I said, no doubt. He said, but you're Kenny Wallace.

He saved my life because when I was down on myself that I wanted to be Jeff Gordon. Yeah. You know, I wanted to be. Everybody did at that time. Yeah. And me and Jeff were, dear friends, and he even admitted that.

I told him one time, I said, man, I wish I had your talent. He goes, you and a million other race. He wished he had your personality. You know what? Honestly, he has said that. Yeah. I don't want to get off base here, but Jeff Gordon and myself,

we were riding in a pickup truck driver's introduction at Dover. No, Loud New Hampshire. And we're waving and we're waving. I start laughing about something. And Jeff Gordon, I'd cut this bad pinky off to be Jeff Gordon. He looked to me dead serious. And if Jeff hears us, he'll know it. He looked at me.

after winning three championships, he looked at me dead serious, and he goes, God, I wish I could laugh like you. Yeah. It just hurt my heart. So with Rusty, Rusty's just damn good. Yeah. And I'm Kenny Wallace, and I can't change that. And Don Perdome taught me that.

Rusty has always supported me. But the one thing that people don't want to see, Rusty's, and you know this about Rusty, because you and I have had some serious hard-to-huff talks. Rusty has what they call tough love. Him and Schrader, they were born in the 50s. They can be pricks to the maximum peak. And if you're not ready to get your ass chewed out by Rusty,

but, I mean, there's times he's put me in tears. But Rusty calls it tough love. So Rusty has made me stronger, made me tougher, and I love him beyond belief. And I'm not disappointed, myself. But I've had to look at Rusty before and I'm like, Rusty, you're good. You got a God-given talent, man, I can't be you. You know, people like Richard Petty, you know, he can't believe, you know, Kyle Petty's not as good as him. It's very hard. Yeah. It's very hard to be good. And I've also been

given a curse. My brother is one of the greatest race car drivers in the history of NASCAR. A lot of pressure. But not. It's the people that remind us. me of it. Like, I'm proud of Rusty. I'm like, I love Rusty. He's, I wouldn't be where I'm at without Rusty. I just love Rusty. It's the fans that go, man, you're not your brother. And I had the same conversation. Isn't it crazy the stuff that they'll say? Oh, the fans are brutal. You did great, but you didn't do as good as your brother. Dale Jr. goes through the same thing. Oh, God, you and I know we have these heart-to-heart talks with Jr. You know, Dale Jr.'s never won a championship, but he's a great race car driver.

He feels it. Yeah. I'm not my ditty. I'm like, man, you're awesome. Dale Jr., you're awesome. But he feels the burn too. Yeah. So I answered your question.

Yeah. I love Rusty. I don't have the talent he has. But, boy, he's been awesome to me. Yeah. And, you know, I think in general, the Wallace family is a racing family. Oh, yeah. I'm from top to bottom.

Mike's really good. Yeah. I'm really good. but we're not great like you. You're great. You know, there's us, and then there's Kevin Harvick, and there's Jeff Gordon and Rusty Us. But, man, we get to race.

I'll get my shots in. You know, I'll get my shots in. Yeah, and I think back to that tough love part, when I got thrown out at Martinsville in 2002 for spinning Coy Gibbs out, and NASCAR had had enough of all the antics from the previous year in the beginning of that year. first one to call me, there was two guys that called me, Rusty Wallace, Dale Jarrett.

Yeah. And Rusty was just adamant that how things worked and how it needed to go and the politics that went with it. And those guys, I mean, Rusty and Jim Hunter and Richard Childress, those guys all, Del Jarrett, those are the guys that kept me from getting kicked out of the group. because next thing you know, I was on the NASCAR trips and going to learn how to play the politics and going how to learn how the sport worked and how to sell the sponsorship. And, you know, Rusty was obviously really good

and tied in with Fred Wagonall and all the folks from action. But he was always the one to just flat out tell you when you did something wrong. Well, NASCAR, number one, NASCAR does need the drivers. Yeah. They just don't want you to overrule them. They don't want you to embarrass them.

They're scared. They want you. I mean, I think they're nervous about getting a relationship like they had with El Senior. Yeah. And then having your star die and not be involved in a sport anymore that was dependent upon so much for his opinion to be able to help them navigate the sport. Yeah.

I think they went too far. You know, I think that in the end, there's only going to be so many Dale Earnhardt seniors, Dale Earnhardt, Jr., Rusty Wallace, Richard Petty, and the type of drivers that can help them navigate the sport, but they tried to make it fair for everybody. And it's just not fair. It is not fair. Not everybody in today's world is Chase Elliott.

You bring up a very good point, and I've never forgot it. And this is wild for me to say, and I've never said it before, but I've always sought it. Dale Earnhardt, Sr. was too strong for NASCAR. If Dale Earnhardt Sr. in his day, if he ever got on the microphone and he looked at the grandstands and he said, okay, I don't want any of you to show up at the racetrack next week, they wouldn't show up.

And that's how powerful he was. And NASCAR knew that. Yeah. I mean, I remember your old boss, Richard Childress, I caught him arguing with one of the, you know, NASCAR. It was in Vegas. I kind of walked by and I was like, whoa. It's all so long ago.

that I can now bring it up. Yeah. But I remember Richard, shooting a NASCAR official, you know, like hierarchy. You know, Dale controls this whole damn sport. And I was like, wow, there it is. Yeah.

I heard it. Yeah. It was true. And isn't it interesting? I've always found that odd that Chase Elliott, who is a wonderful human being, but so quiet, can be so damn famous.

Yeah. Isn't it unbelievable that you and Rusty and Earnhardt, you guys were like WW, I mean, you guys were wrestlers. Yeah. And now these kids like Chase Elliott don't even got to say anything. Yeah. And it's so difficult. You know, I look at Dale Jr. and Chase Elliott as having the same problem, right?

like everything that they do, the expectation is for them to be like their dad. Yeah. And it's really hard to be yourself, right? Like, think about it from all the fans that say, hey, you know, Rusty did this and why didn't you do that? I mean, imagine that level of,

like, I feel sorry for Dale Jr. sometimes just because of the fact that. I've got a good one for that. I mean, what in the hell? How do you go anywhere? Because of the fact that he is so freaking popular that you can't actually go somewhere and have fun all the time. I've told Dale Jr. this.

I said, I want all your money, but I don't want to be you. Yeah, exactly. I think about that sometimes, and my wife and I will talk about that sometimes. It's like, we were just popular enough to be able to still go places and be interrupted here and there. But seeing all the things that they have to go through from Dale Jr. and Chase Elliott, they can't go anywhere. Senior used to have his food brought to him

when I won my, I won the Bud 300 in Loudoun. It was a big win. And Earnhardt was proud of me. He said, come on up here. So I went up there and I'm inside, you know, the deerhead shop. And he just threw down. My first gun. Oh, really?

Yeah. Right there? Oh, yeah. Yeah. God, you've had some great rides and great friends. You have. Yeah, it's been, we've been pretty fortunate to go through the generation of people that we went through. Yeah.

as drivers and team owners and crew members and the evolution of the sport. When you think about when you started and then you got to those mid-90s and you got to the early 2000s, what in the hell? I mean, it was a gimmick at that point that you couldn't screw up because it was so popular. You were turning sponsors. You were handpicking your sponsors. Squaredi came to the front door of my house. Yeah.

You just, you're making my memory. You're jogging my memory. ding dong opened the door Square D rep Hey we'd like I mean just as simple and as crazy to that It was just

I got a phrase for it It was sex drugs and rock and roll It was it was like You want to sponsor me? Well let me think about it It was It was It was

I mean squarely It came to my front door And at that time They were $6 million dollars Yeah It was like Kenny Wallace Got a $6 million sponsorship but they loved me.

Getting back to Earnhardt, he said, come to my deerhead shop, but she didn't say deerhead shop, and he put down spaghetti and salad. And he said, here you go. He says, and there was more to do. But tagging on to what you're saying about his popularity, can't even go out to eat.

No. It's crazy. It's crazy. And, you know, you talk about Earnhardt, I would say probably one of your, most famous moments, probably if not the most famous race, was pushing Earnhardt to that win at Talladega. Yeah. Was that, did it just happen?

I mean, how did all that happen? Just happened. What in the hell? That was the craziest comeback ever. I will give you, the great Dick Truckell taught me something. He said, we take pictures in the mirror. So when you and I are coming off at Turn 4, you take a picture in the mirror. You don't stare in the mirror.

You know, Dover or somewhere like that. Big tracks you might. So you got to go back. We have to go back because Dale Earnhardt, in 1984, 1984, I'm a cup crew chief because I'm a fabricator mechanic first. Yeah.

Okay, so in 84, I'm not even a race car driver. Dale Earnhardt Sr. remembered me. Then I started running ASA. I became a race car driver at 22 years old. Holy crap. I'm a late bloomer. I was never a race car driver. Yeah.

So Earnhardt started coming to the ASA races. He came to Slinger. He came to... To race? Yes. Okay. He had an ASA car. Started hitting it off with him.

And we're at St. Paul, Minnesota. And, I mean, I'm like my second year of ever driving a race car. He hits me in the ass going in one and I save it. Well, after the race, he puts his arm around me. He goes, I like you, Herman. He said, I hit you an ass. And he said, you had two choices directly. or save it, and you saved it.

I saved it. So then you start fast forwarding, and years later, here I come. I come back south. Now I came back as a race car driver. What year? So November of 88. Okay.

November of 88, NASCAR wants to see me run one of their cars. Because in 89, we start, Rusty starts this Xfinity team for me. So November of 88, now we're at the Teledga story now, November of 88, Earnhardt says, Herman, I know NASCAR needs to approve you to go to Daytona. You know this, Kevin, but the people don't. In my day, you just can't show up at Daytona and race, because you could kill yourself.

Yeah, literally. They knew me as a crew chief for Joe Rutman, the Levi Garrett Card, 1984. Jake Elder started out as the crew chief. And like right now, you've got to remember, I'm 62 years old, right? now. I mean, I'm old. So it's sad, but it's true. It happens. It happens. So, Earnhardt lets me drive the number eight GM-goodron Chevrolet car at Martinsville. And I run 12th. That's a Bush race? Bush race. Grand National race, yeah. So here I am in Dale Earnhardt's number eight, GM-Goodren Chevrolet. We have an oil leak the day before, before I know it,

Rusty and Earnhardt are in the motor compartment, changing this motor. There's media everywhere. So Dale Earnhardt, Sr. gave me my first break. Wow. For a lot of reasons, he was friends with Rusty, and him and Rusty are talking.

He's like, man, you know, Rusty's like, I got to get Herman approved to go to Daytona. We're going to run him for a rookie of the year. Now, now remember, I remember that. Yeah. He let me drive his car. And I run 12th. My first race at Martinsville.

So now fast forward years and years. And I have a bad pit stop at Teledega. Jimmy Eledge is mad at the whole team. Supposed been right sides only. They messed up and Jimmy's cussing them out. Just come over here and put left sides on. Let's put four on. I put it up in first Teledega.

280, 300 gear, whatever it is. I look in the mirror. and here's Earnhardt behind me. I keyed the button, I said, what's Earnhardt doing behind me? He said, oh, he had a bad bitstop too. My car was fast. You know, that's when Andy Petrie,

we had them tall rear springs, a car would sag. We didn't have any power. And Andy didn't like hearing that, but we didn't have power, but, well, we had that baby low. Yeah. And Earnhardt followed me halfway to the front,

and we were slicing and dicing. And we broke that down right. here in this studio. Yeah. If you go to YouTube right now, me and Andy Petrie and maybe Larry McCronellas, we broke that coming from the back to the front. Yeah.

So I get picked. I get picked by Matt Kenseth. Earnhardt ends up in front of me. And all of a sudden he was wearing white gloves. Dale Earn, I'm just committed to him because it's the right thing for me to do. And all of a sudden, Earnhardt's Big Paul comes up. And he's like this.

Like, in that millisecond, I thought he helped me get my career started, him and Rusty. All right, here we go. Well, you know, you couldn't get to the rear bumper. That's when we had all those gurney flaps. Right. We had the gurney flap spoiler. Andy Petrie's cars had that deal faired out. So I could get to him.

And, buddy, I stayed committed to him. Yeah. And there were some pivotal moments there. You know, we got through the trival and John Andretti just peeled out. here we come. You know, then you have, you know, Dale Jr., he's not, you know, Dale Jr.'s went on record. He said he's not going to push Mike Skinner to the win because those were teammates

that hated each other. Oh, yeah. Right? So Dale, Sr. don't like Mike Skinner. Oh, yeah. We had Skinner sit right here and tell us that. So, you know, you asked the question. Yeah.

This is all these dynamics. And now they come to fruition. It's like Mount Rushmore. Right. I'm telling you everything it took to get to. to that moment. He helped me. I help him.

Dale Jr., knows not put Mike Skinner. We got fast cars. There's 250,000 people in the grandstands, and you know all this. Oh, yeah. I'm saying this for the people. Right.

And we're coming through the tribal, and, you know, you're turning the wheel too far because, you know, shade, that trial will get shady. Oh, yeah. It gets very dangerous. Through that tribal, I could hear the fans.

And I'm on Earnhardt's ass. I'm like, And I could hear the fan. Did you glance up? I could just hear them. Yeah. Over the, over my motor noise. I'm like this, you know, and I know.

And I'm thinking, how can I pass him? How can I pass him? I look in my mirror and I don't recognize that car. I had one chance. I'm like, who is that? And I was getting ready to pull out in a millisecond. I thought if I pull out, they won't go with me. And here I'll be the guy that pulled out and finished last.

we come around and I realize it's my own teammate, Joe Nemechek, in a new paint scheme. I beat myself up to this day, but Joe probably wouldn't have went with me anyway. No, that was always the power of that three and that eight and the 88. Everybody knew that they had fast cars and wanted to be a part of the show, right? Do you think I should have? What do you think I should have done? I think you did the right thing. I think you had just gone to the back. I think you, I think, I think even if Nemechette goes with you, I think the rest of them probably stay up just to fill the hole. That's, I mean, that's, it's always easy. It's always easy to look back.

So to end the story, first of all, thank you for that. It does make me feel better. Yeah. I've never asked anybody's. Yeah, I just think that, I mean, the way that it all worked out was like a fairy tale, so. So to end it all, the race is over. You know, that, you know, Daytona and Teleda take it out of you mentally. Yeah. For sure. So I'm mentally, I'm tired. Even, even when I'm not. my relatives said, man, you look so white in that interview. I said, well, I didn't feel white, but it is a 500-mile race, and you're juke and driving the whole damn race, you know, it takes it out of you. While I'm being interviewed, all I heard, you know, they got, you know, that's the highest, that, that was the highest level NASCAR ever was, right? Oh, yeah, for sure. We were never

bigger. And they put that microphone in front of Dale Earnhardt Sr.'s mouth, and they said, Dale Sr., how did you win this race? And he kept saying, Kenny Wallace. If it weren't for Kenny Wallace, you would have, you know, we would have never won this race. And they're like, oh, no, serious, or not. How did you win this race? He goes, I'm telling you.

Kenny Wallace. Kenny Wallace is the reason we won this race. Did you get a basket of fruit? What did you get? What did you get? What did he send you? It was so good to me. At that time, I'm doing ESPN on Mondays with John Kernan.

Okay. ESPN was really good to me. at that time. They'd send a helicopter right here in Concord and fly me to South Park down where you used to live. Because ESPN Studios used to be in South Park. Oh, I didn't know that. They'd fly a helicopter.

I said, that's too far over drive. It was like an hour. Yeah. Traffic. I was saying, I ain't doing that on Monday morning. So they sent a helicopter every Monday morning. That's awesome. So after Earnhardt 1,

we have, here I run the second, and John Kernan to myself, we're getting ready. It was called, I think, RPM tonight. RPM tonight. That's exactly right. And I knew he was coming. And here we're getting ready to start RPM tonight.

And I look and here he comes. Here goes Earnhardt. Here he comes. And he goes, Herman, what do you want? Well, but we partied the night after he won. Yeah. And but I looked at Earnhardt and I said, you don't owe me anything.

And here's the end of the story that you're looking for. I said, you don't owe me anything for me helping me. you make over a million dollars, I said, you let me drive your number eight, GM Gooder and Chevrolet at Martinsville. And you made it to where NASCAR said, oh, Herman can drive. Let's let him race NASCAR. And Earnhardt looked at me and he goes, I'm glad you remembered that. I didn't get anything and I didn't want anything. That's awesome. That's the way it should be. He just let me drive that car. Yeah. In November of 19, I mean, you can look it all up. It's right

there, you know. But November, was it November of? 1988. I drove Dale. There's pictures out there. So in a weird way, I'm like, we're even. We're even. Yeah. That's just how our generation and your generation thought about it, right? Like, you remember those things that happen and you want to repay them. And you remember them in the moments to be able to say, all right, he had me, I got you. And that's, that's the way, that's how we survived. Right? Because somebody would loan you a car. Somebody would buy you a set of tires. And the next thing, you know, they need tickets to a race or they need you to come do an appearance for something. That's just, that's how it works. I love talking to you. If you really want to do it. I love talking to you because you trigger something right now. It is sad to say, but like with my dirt car right now, I mean, I do everything myself. Yeah. Schrader does not like me saying that. I'm like Schrader. Rusty taught me. You got to remind them because they remember what they want to. But, but. for me to get people to help me on my dirt car.

I'm talking family members, friends. They want money. Yeah. Me. I'm like, you know, they won't come help me unless I give them a $100 bill a night, pay for their pit pass. But in our day, Kevin, can I go to Kern with you? Absolutely.

That's how it worked. And they paid for their own way. I mean, I can't remember. I mean, you had a line of people that wanted to go help you, but it is definitely not that way anymore. Why are people like that nowadays? They want to be paid. I think they want to go because they think it's fun.

They don't go because they love it. I've always said, and this is sad to say, and I'd love to hear you, here I am asking you this question, you and your son bringing a big crowd. But I don't think racing in totality is as big as it used to be. Yeah. I don't think anything is. Anything.

Except for the NFL. Yeah. They're bigger than big. I mean, even when you look at, Even when you look at baseball and whatever sport you want to look at, aside from the NFL, I just think that it's different. There's just a lot to do. There's a lot of places to go. There's things to watch. I think that the world has evolved. And so it's just, I mean, we sound like our parents. Not the way it used to be. But you're smart. And I've always thought that of you.

You have a lot of weight. And I agree with you. You know, There's different versions of heart. There's different versions of me. And I think a lot of the people in the short track area want to think that it used to be like that and haven't evolved into what it is today. I think there are some promoters that are good promoters and have evolved into what they can make it in today.

So it's an interesting world. But last question, what was your first car that you drove on the street? My brother Rusty's mother-in-law, Noeie Hall. We called her Novella. That was her full name. Noe had a 1968 green, ugly, but killer body. That's six.

You're talking about the car, right? The car. Okay. My first car drove on the street. Rusty's mother-in-law gave it to me. Really? God, I wish I would have kept it because I'd just made it. I got rid of it because of the color, but it was a 68 Chavelle.

Good Lord. Yeah, thank you, Noe. Yeah. So you sold it and bought another car or did you sell it to buy race car parts? I sold it because I was dumb. And at that time, as Rusty would say, at that time, that was the thing to do. And I think I bought a 78 Grand Prix. It was yellow.

I thought it was a better car. I bought it from Ronnie King, quality transmissions, and Ronnie smoked. And when I bought it, it smelled like smoke. Took me a year to get the smoke smell out of the inside. But, you know, it was a better car. Yeah. Well, thanks for taking the time. We could do this for three.

hours. We'll have to come back and we'll just pick a section of time. But I appreciate everything that you do for racing and you as a person and friend. And thank you. Well, first of all, thank you for asking me. You and your family mean a lot to me. And I really appreciate you being nice to me all these years. Thank you. We'll stay young. Yeah. Don't let the old man in. Don't let the old man. You too either. That's right. I'm in the same boat.