Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour presented by NASCAR on FOX - Michael Waltrip Interview

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Michael Waltrip joins Kevin Harvick to discuss winning the Daytona 500 two times, his experience racing at Rockingham in 2001 following the tragedy of Dale Earnhardt passing away, how a team operates today compared to back in the day, and much more. Don’t miss this deep dive into one of NASCAR’s most legendary drivers! 0:51 - Dale Earnhardt/Rockingham 15:20 - Evolution of NASCAR 19:46 - Owning a Team 32:49 - Favorite Driver/First Car Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dale would be pissed if we didn't go to Rockingham. I was the best person to win that race on his day that he left this earth. I get so tired of hearing, you know, racing like it used to be. That's not true that fiasco and Richmond went down. And so the team closed down. It's done. And that's hard to take. Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour, presented by Echo Park Automotive and NASCAR on Fox.

I'm Kevin Harvick. And today we have Michael. Waltrip in the chair. Thanks for coming by, Mike. This is very intimate. Yeah, well, we like to, we like to keep it personal one-on-one every, every opportunity that we can. But I had you in, we had this idea with Rockingham back on the schedule and going to Rockingham. There's just a, there's a lot of things that I think back to in 2001. And you look back at that for me personally, for you personally. It was a very difficult time in life to really understand. And now we're way removed from everything that happened that day. But talk me through just going to the Daytona

500 and winning and then having to go to Rockingham. And the things that you remember about that particular weekend, for me, the biggest thing that stuck out is the press conference. I'd never I tell people all the time. I'll never sit in a press conference that big again. I'll never see that many cameras, people, and feel the, I hope I never feel the way that I did on that particular day, confused, sad, happy, didn't really know where to even sit. But walk me back through just that week after winning the biggest race of your life, having Dale pass, and now we've got to go race. Yeah, we, I thought there was, in my mind, there was going to be indecision.

Do we go to Rockingham? Yeah. Or do we set it out in honor? and we decided as collectively as a group, and certainly correctly, Dale would be pissed if we didn't go to Rockingham. So, you know, we went down there, and I just found through God and faith

that the reason why I won that Daytona 500 that day is because I didn't have to, it wasn't about me. You know, it was about the team, and it was about Dale giving me this wonderful opportunity. and, you know, I believe when you come on this earth, your days are numbered. God knows when you're leaving and when it's your time, you're going. And so that faith and then my belief that I was the best person to win that race on his day that he left this earth, that helped me through it all.

The press conference, I thought, worked good because I was able to share that story and tell people that, you know, that I believe that Dale was in a better place, and that's how I moved forward. Now, we had tested down there and ran really good in the test, and getting in the race car and getting out there, that was hard. That was probably the hardest part for me, not the press conference, but just going to work.

You know, that should be what your escape is. You pull that helmet on and you put the problems of the world behind you, and you just go race. But in my life, that's pretty much, in my racing life, that's pretty much what it was. But that weekend, it just, that was hard. It didn't really, I didn't really, you know, I didn't feel like being there. Yeah. When it came time to race and I, I couldn't, I couldn't get my energy around this wonderful

opportunity because it felt just so different than it had the months leading up. in my racing career, I've never experienced the energy and the positivity and the excitement for a season like I had the 2001 season. You know, we tested well everywhere we went. And, you know, Dale was my mentor. He was telling me what I needed to think about and do. I'd never had that before. We had a pre-season or pre-race meeting in Daytona, explaining to me and Dale Jr. How we were going to win the race.

And I'm like, holy crap, no wonder I haven't done very good so far. I haven't ever had all this before. And I had all that. And I took the checkered flag in the 500. And I'm like, yes, yes, this is perfect. And then we'd find out it was far from it. And so when I got to Rockingham, it just didn't work for me. I couldn't.

I think I finished 14th or 15th in Park One, which was awesome. I got to high five them on the front straightaway. But for me, it was just a tough. And I think for Dell Jr., too, it was just a tough weekend. Yeah. When you go back and you look at that DEI, just the way that it was all developed, and I got to spend a little bit of time there with Hornarday during his truck time. And then you see the cup teams start to develop. Who was kind of corraling everybody?

Who was the one that corralled everybody during the week leading up to Rockingham to say, okay, this is what we're going to do. Here's the plan. because it was, it sounds like it was always Dale when it came to those cup cars as to building it and putting everything in place for all you guys to drive. Who kind of took charge after that? Ty and Teresa. Yeah. You know, they, they made sure we knew that we were going to move forward. And that was, that was our direction.

And they were the ones, you know, Kevin, I don't really specifically remember after Rockingham. Going to Vegas, going to Atlanta, just didn't. I didn't, I don't remember any of that. I just remember the week after the 500 that, you know, Ty was my buddy and Teresa said this is what we're going to do, and that was the direction, and off we went. Yeah. And, you know, you look back at Rockingham in general.

Are there things in your racing career that you look at Rockingham and say, this was great, that was fun? Tell me about some of your Rockingham. experiences in general. I know we're talking about that 2001, but you raced at so many different places and there's all these, you always have great stories about something. Tell me about Rockingham and how it was a part of your career as you went through driving. Well, when I, when I, my first start at Rockingham was in the Darlington Dash series in 83. And believe this or not, in 1983, the whole Darlington Dash series season was,

I don't know, 14 races. I sat on 13 polls. Oh, wow. And the only poll I didn't sit on was Rockingham because I just couldn't figure it out. I couldn't get my foot down when it needed to go down. And I, you know, I ended up, I think I might have won the race. I don't really remember. I won six times.

I know I won Darlington, so that was cool. But just how tough that place was. And I think that talking to some of the, some of the, the truck racers that are going there for the races this year, they're like, it's wide open. It's pedal to the metal. I said, no, it's not. You know how challenging and slick and slippery that place was? And so I couldn't get the poll, but I did figure out in the race, and I think I won the race.

But another funny story about Rockingham. I got a couple. I came off turn four and there was a wreck and I either dove to miss it or somebody hit me. And at the end of the pit wall on the front straightaway, there was these big barrels of water. And I hit those bells of water and the video of water just shooting sky high. And it all came down on me and I'm wet and I'm like, oh, no, I'm bleeding to death. I thought I was bleeding out. But then the next week at Phoenix, we're in the driver's meeting.

And I was kind of known for saying dumb stuff in the driver's meeting for the fun of it. And I'm sitting at Phoenix looking down the front straightaway, which is now the back. But at that time, and there's water barrels or there's barrels at the end of the pit wall. And Dick Beatty got all done with his, you know, telling us what was going on. I raised my hand. And he said, yeah, I'm like, I said, is there water in them barrels? because I didn't want to get wet again. And then one day in the bush race,

I was passing Jeff Green, who I helped him get started in NASCAR, and he drove for Dale for a while, and I was passing Jeff on the next to last lap. That was as close I got to win in a race there, a big race, and just thought, I just for a second assumed he was going to let me have the corner. And that was wrong.

I mean, it's racing last lap. So he tried to curve me off, and we clipped and I spun around. And that was probably my most disappointing Rockingham moment because I could see victory. And I just had so much history with that track from the Dash series at 83 up until, you know, we didn't race there anymore. So I'm looking forward to seeing these guys run as fast as they. They said they've never felt faster speeds. That's unbelievable. I know.

It's just, I guess the pavement is different. And they were saying they basically burp, let off the gas and then go right back to it. And I think that's going to be so fun to watch on Fox. I mean, seeing these guys. They all seem to like it. Yeah, I know. They all seem to like the style of, because it has, it's a very uniquely banked track, the way that you roll into the banking, and the one and two is so much different than three and four.

But I'm like you, I just remember dreading going to Rockingham. And it was absolutely awful in everything that I ever had to do. at Rockingham. I went there the first time in the A.C. Delco car in 2000, it was like race two. We didn't have any points. I go there and lay an egg and qualify and miss the race. Because in our day, when we ran those cars back then, I mean, there were enough cars. A lot of cars. You could miss the race every single week if you didn't have your stuff together. So I leave the racetrack and I just, you know, Delane and I weren't married yet, but I left her at the racetrack. She was doing PR for for Randy LaJoy at the time. And I was absolutely devastated. Just go to Daytona, have a good week,

and then you go to Rockingham. You think you got it figured out? Miss the show. Yeah, you, but you, you don't see it coming. No. And that's why you're so, oh. Yeah. So I leave her. I go to back to the hotel room. She has no ride. They don't know where I am. And I go back to the hotel room and shut all the curtains and lay in bed. And she finally comes in. She's mad, mad at me. I go to the shop the next week. And they've got Will Lynn, you remember Will. Yeah. And Will, and Will, and Will, has created these egg cartons. You remember they used to put the kids on the, on the cartons that were missing,

and they had made these two milk cartons. So one that said missing with my picture on it, one that had said found. So I just, I never could find anything that worked for me at Rockingham. And there were some guys that were just so good at going up the racetrack. Yeah. Cal Petty was amazing. And, you know, I would, you would stand there and watch them,

and he would let off at the flag stand almost. Yeah. That's how different it was. He's got that funky entrance in the turn one. He would lay in there. And I think before he even got to the corner, he was already backing the gas and just driving the heck out of those cars. It was definitely different.

And that's why I'm so excited about going there to watch the trucks and see who figures it out first and how fast they do go. Don't you think it's interesting to see where racing has evolved back to? We've got North Wilkesboro. that's back, Rockingham is going to put on races. Why do you think that this cycle has started? It's like what's old is new again. It's like fashion.

I know. And not that I'm very good at fashion. No, and well, you can tell I'm not either, but it's interesting to me. I think, you know, people just want what they don't have. And I get so tired of hearing, you know, racing, like you're using, like, used to be. That's, I get that a lot. Yeah. Because I'm old. And so they think, same. So they think that,

you know, I would agree that it was better back in the day. Well, it wasn't. I mean, it's just, it's just, that's not true. It's more competitive now than ever. We go to better, more fun venues than ever. We're doing new things. I'm just really happy with where we are. And I give Marcus a lot of credit for saying, we got to go to, we got to, we got to, to get Wilkesboro back on the map, and we got to get Rockingham going. You know, we want to go to Nashville Super Speedway. We want to do all these, being in Nashville is 100% exactly where we need to be. And making these changes to the schedule and being innovative, I just, I love it. I can't wait to hear what we're doing next year. Yeah. You know, you went through your career. You went through

how many races before you won? 462 now that you asked. Yeah, 462 races. And you have a conversation with Dale. What led to getting into that 15 car at the point of the career that you're at? Was there a relationship that you guys, you guys obviously had a good relationship? What was the conversation that led to getting into that car? It was always in general on the back of the boat, fishing in the Bahamas. And, you know, he would say you'd win if you were in one of my cars. There's no doubt about that.

And I think he was instrumental in 1996 in getting me in the Wood Brothers car for that ride. He told Eddie and Lynn that he felt like I could win in good equipment and I could win in their equipment. And we won the All-Star race in 96 with the Wood Brothers. And that's probably my favorite victory because my brother came to Victory Lane. Dale came to Victory Lane. and I was, you know, the Wood Brothers, the legendary family had, I looked at it like, they trusted me with their car. You know, they gave me the keys to the family car, and I went out and were able to win for them.

And those pictures in Victory Lane, just joy because I felt like that I validated Dale's decision, which was important to me, and I won for the Wood Brothers. And so it started in the 90s, early 90s, before that Woodbrose. Brother's opportunity with us becoming friends and him believing that I would definitely be able to win in his equipment. And that's why that day in Daytona is so hard because, you know, I did it. Yeah. Did what he said I could do. Yeah. Well, he believed in what you were doing, and that led to driving a car. And when you talk about the Wood Brothers, I was fortunate to drive the 71 Mercury that David Pearson drove.

What were, when you, when you look back and a lot's changed, when you look back at just the evolution of the car, talk to me about some of the cars that you drove because that thing, I know you didn't drive 71, but I looked at Clint's 80s version of the car that Neil Bonnet drove and it had an armrest in the car. Yeah. Was there ever a point where you're like, Holy crap, I am riding in something that I shouldn't be riding in. And I think back to 35 years ago when you wrecked at Bristol,

and that car just blew apart and you walk out of this pile of rubbish. And the evolution of the race car, and after Dale's death, it really took the safety side of it to the next level. Did you pay attention to all that side of it, or did you just get in and drive because they told you that's what it was? Is rubbish one of your words if you work? Not yet. Okay, maybe you think about that one. Yeah, that's a good one. Well, my memories are very, very vivid of getting in NASCAR for the first time. And the first time I drove in a NASCAR race was the Darlington Dash series. They called them Baby Grands in 1982. And I got into a 1970, I think a 1977 Vega. And I drove out onto the track at Atlanta. And I'm going down the backstreet. straightaway, and I just got out of high school, and this is a mile and a half track.

I've only been on a quarter mile, and I'm going down that bike straightaway, and I'm scared to death anyway, and I get to the end of the bike straightaway, and I tried to turn on my blinker. That's how nervous I was. So, fast forward to 1985, just a few years later, I'm in a cup car for the first time. And this baby is, it's spacious, you know, like you said, at our armrest, you could have a cup holder in there. You feel like you should be looking for somebody in the back seat. They were huge.

Yeah. And a lot of power, probably more than now. And so that was so wild to me. And I tell you that, to tell you this, I lived it through the 80s and into the 90s. And in Detroit, the cars were shrinking. And in NASCAR, they were shrinking. And I'm a tall cat. You know, I was me and Buddy Baker, Jimmy Hensley, maybe we were the tallest.

But I was, I raced on. and on into the 80s, and in 88, they really shrunk. And I went to Mr. France. And I said, y'all are about to squeeze me out of a job. There's no reason for these cars to be shrinking so much because, like, they built a new car for me once, Kevin. And my head was above the rowbar. And I'm like, because of aerodynamics and what we were learning and smaller was faster. And I asked Mr. France, I said, there's two things I'd like you to do. I'd like you to mandate the size of the chassis and make us put a body around it. And if it's bigger, great. That means more room for the stickers, for the decals, for the sponsors. And then secondarily, I feel like you ought to weigh the drivers

with the car because it's a disadvantage to me. Jeff Gordon, when he showed up, he weighed probably 100 pounds less than me. Yeah. And so I said, that's not fair. And it was so cool. Mr. France was the leader, and he was in charge, as you very well know. And he said, and I had it all. But Buffy, she did it for me on a computer. That's when computers just started. Anyway, she printed it all out for me. And I had my presentation. I took it to him.

He's like, that's very well done, Mike. And this was in January or whatever. He said, got a lot of stuff going on in NASCAR right now. We won't get to that this year, but we'll look at it next year. That's funny. And he had a way of being able to put things to you that you didn't want to hear, but you're okay with. Yeah. I told Buffy, I said, he's going to look, he's going to look at that.

Yeah. And then somebody told me that when he says he's going to look at something, it means go. Yeah. You know, got crumbled up and throw it in the trash. But eventually all that happens. You look back at all the experience and things that you were able to go through from the driving side of things. You go to the ownership side and you start to own your own cars. When was the first car that you owned as an owner?

Did you drive it? Did you have somebody else drive it? Was a late model, Xfinity car, Bush car, Cup car? What was it? It was a Bush car. And I had a shop behind my house, and you have to know the generation or the era that I grew up in, all the top top cup guys had their own Bush teams. You know, Daryl had one. Dale had one. Dale Jarrett, that's how he kind of got his way. And he kept his going. Everybody, Bobby, Allison, that's how he did it. Davy, everybody did that. You know, they were cup drivers on Sunday, but then they had their own little hobby and they go out back to the shop, whether it was in an industrial park or in my case behind the house, and they would build cars. And back in the day,

you know, it was much different. You go to one guy and get a chassis, you go to another guy, he'll put a body on it for you, and then you get somebody and they supply you, you buy an engine or release an engine, and then you set it up and put the stickers on it, and go racing. And so that was night, that was, what year was that? 1995. I got the opportunity to go drive for the woods in 96. The gentleman, Chuck Ryder, that owned my, my Bihari-Penzel car, he wouldn't allow me to do that. And the Woodbrother said, we don't care. And so built, built some cars in behind my garage or in behind my house in my garage. and we were able to take that and win races as me being the driver and the owner.

And then we got Ruedem to drive for us and gave Patty Mouis some races. Shauna Robinson drove for us, Carrie Earnhardt. So it was just a project. I had a great sponsor in Arons. And by the way, we reunited a couple of weeks ago and I got to race the Aaron's Dream Machine. It was a four-door crown Vic. Oh, my God. And I raced it in what?

In the Freedom 500. Oh, Cletus McFarleth. Cleetus's race, yeah. And I was scoring like a bald eagle. You ought to see me out there in that thing. But anyway, Aaron sponsored me, so we got back together. My throwback weekend was in Bradenton. But winning those races and what we were able to accomplish from my shop behind the garage

led to the opportunity with Toyota and to be able to go cup racing. We had done some one-off cup races with my team from behind my house. Really? Yeah, Kenny Wallace ran top, or no, Buckshot Jones led Talladega. Buckshot Jones, that's a throwback. He led Taladega. I won Talladega in the fall of 03, and he was driving one of my cars, and he led some of the race. So you don't think I left Talladega that day thinking I had it all figured out.

Oh, yeah. So those are great memories. Kenny Wallace, he made the Daytona 500 in a car that we built from behind my house. So we had a lot of success, and everything was just going along exactly like I'd hoped it would. until they threw the, or they started the 2007 cup season. And we brought three Toyotas to Daytona to run the 500. Dale Jarrett drove for it. First year.

First year. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I was so proud of what we built. And we get there and one of the crew guys and a buddy of his rubbed some something. and I don't even know what it was, rubbed something in the intake manifold before qualifying. We got, you know, we got, we couldn't qualify.

We made the race in the 1-25, and, and, uh, but you talked about you missing, you missing, uh, rockingham that day. I wanted to, I did the same thing you did. I went and got in my bus and locked the door and didn't let anybody come near me because I just didn't, I was distraught, my baby, what I had built. And, and, and 10 years in the making,

and, you know, we had this, huge, huge controversy deeming us cheaters. And that was really hard for me. And then the second thing that was hard for me, there were 51 full-time funded cup teams for 43 starts, 43 spots. And we missed most of the races, the first half of 2007. And luckily, my relationship with Napa, my relationship with errands. They stuck with us, and we were able to claw through 2007 and then made races in 08, one race is in 2009, Clint race for a championship in 12. And, you know, just when you think you got it all figured out and you've put together

something that's going to be really special and you're going to be one of the franchises of NASCAR that is going to win a lot of races, that fias. And Lasko and Richmond went down, and Brian France came down on us really hard, and our sponsors left. And my partner, Rob, he said, we can't, you know, we can't continue on like this. And so the team closed down. That's probably the most disappointing thing that's happened in my career. Because I couldn't overcome it.

Yeah. You know, you lose 462 races and you win, you overcome it. you know, you, you don't run well, you run better, you overcome it. That's something that it's been eight years ago, you know, I lost. Yeah. It's done. And that's hard to take. Well, you've done a lot of great things in this sport. And you've put, you've put your family, your life, everything that you've worked for. And then you go and you take it to TV. Because in the end, you were a good, good race car driver, great race car driver to do the things that you did.

And your personality, though, is contagious. And the things that you do, you decide to start doing TV. And that introduced Michael Walter from being the race car driver to the personality on TV. What was that transition like for you? It was, for me, it was something that was just a total. change of life. What was it like for you when you decided to start doing TV? Well, when I was a kid, my brother was unique, you know, he would show up at the NASCAR races with slacks on and penny loafers. Everybody else is wearing blue jeans and cowboy boots and he would take care of his

sponsors. He would be very outgoing and he would. And so, you know, as a kid, he was my hero. And I wanted to do everything he did. So I dressed nice and I would talk about my sponsors and I would do all those things. And it was like, like, I think the first time I did any TV or radio as I did pit road reporting for Performance Racing Network at Charlotte. And I was on pit road for TBS. And I did some stuff for ESPN. And so it's just, it was just a natural transition for me because I'd felt like I was part of the media as I was a race car driver because I wanted to make sure I did everything I could for my sponsors and partners to tell their story. And so then that...

So back up here, where did you learn that? Was that just from being able to take care of the sponsors? That's just not something that you hear a lot of drivers say. Did that start early? Or did you always recognize that? Yeah, before I even had one, I watched Darrell. Yeah. And I watched how he would tell the stories and how he, you know, I just,

I just, he was my hero and my idol and I just wanted, I would study him. And you know, a lot of times in life, your idols let you down or disappoint you, but he never did. You know, he always did the right thing. And that sort of, that was, he was my template. And I wanted to, to be able to do everything he did. Now, I will tell you this, he didn't give me no money. He didn't give me no rides. Yeah. And I think he thought, But look, kid, if you can't take my name and do something with it, then I'm sorry. And so as I struggled through those 462 races, I was really thankful, you know, because I think it made you earn it and made me say, you're not, I'm not done yet.

And so then I got to do the truck races in the booth. That was the first thing I really did. And I think that was 2004 or five, Phil and I were trying to figure that out the other day. But I started going up to the booth while I was still a race car driver. And that, I just loved the booth, you know. I loved, but I also loved being on pit road. That's kind of cool, too. But I love being in the booth.

And I felt like, like you are, you're relevant. You know, you race that new car. You know what it's like to have a movie screen in there and looking out the back. Yeah. Like, that freaks me out. I can't even park my damn car in the driveway with the camera. I'm all in the grass because I'm trying to do what these race car drivers are. But it's hard. It's different. But anyway, I felt like I knew exactly what I was talking about.

I had the respect to the competitors. And that started over 20 years ago doing the truck races in the booth and been doing it ever since. Well, it's been great to listen to the history and the stories that you and your family have in this sport. It's made a big impact in several different areas of how this sport operates and the things that function and the history. that goes along with the things that you've been able to do because you've decided to stick around and be a part of the sport. NASCAR is doing a much better job now than they did even three years ago of taking care and keeping the last generations of the previous generations around the garage relevant in the races.

You saw that a lot this weekend at Darlington. As you go back and you go through time and you go through time and you've, you, you go through TV and ownership, how has the ownership role? What do you see the biggest difference in how a team operates today compared to how you operated in 2010, 11, 12? Yeah, there was less money from NASCAR, but there were more sponsors, I think. Yeah. You know, we were able to, we were able to fund our teams through the sponsors that I talked about earlier. I wanted to do everything I could for them as a car owner to make sure they maximize their value by investing in our team and in the sport. And a lot of people today, I don't think, understood what we built as a race shop in Cornelius.

That was doors open, fans friendly. We wanted people to be able to come in and see us build the cars and understand what all went into the preparation. We bought a movie theater and preserved one of the movie theaters. to show the races on the weekend or show stories, documentaries about the sport. And so we didn't have a whole lot of help from NASCAR. I remember how much bigger the checks got in 2001 when they did the new TV deal. But then, you know, after that, there wasn't a whole lot of us going to NASCAR and saying, you know, we need more money.

And in my opinion, in fairness to NASCAR, car, we were getting the sponsorships. We were making it work. Now, in 2007, when we didn't make races, we weren't making it work. When we stumbled out of the gate, but by the time we got competitive with all the sponsors we had, we were able to make ends meet. Now, I'll tell you this, too, I had a partner that did really well in life, and he loved cars. And Rob Kaufman invested in the team. and if we needed to spend a little bit more money in order to be able to have better our dynamics or if we needed to add to the engineer department and we didn't have the budget to do it with the sponsorship, he would put that money in.

And so I think that's the case with a lot of owners. They did that throughout that period and that's just how it worked. Nowadays, we know obviously about the lawsuit and the controversy or the difference of opinion on how this thing should go forward is happening now. We weren't there back then. Yeah. Well, it's definitely a different era. Who's your favorite driver currently on the cup side?

Can I have two or just one? You can have two. Tyler and Kyle Larson. Okay. I like Reddick and I like his attitude. And, you know, you got to love Kyle Larson. Yeah. Everybody loves Kyle Larson.

Yeah, just drives the shit out of it. But, yeah. And, but, you know, with the gridwalk, it's just, it's just, so refreshing to see smiling faces, you know? You walk up to somebody and Christopher Bell's a damnedest thing I ever seen. I mean, he's just so kind, you know, and we're on the grid in Austin, and we're talking to him, and he's just, I don't know, it just makes you feel good to be with him. And, and Todd Gillen, Cendrick, there's so many of them that they're all so nice to me. They're all so young. Yeah, and people have no idea how young our generation of drivers really is.

I know. I know. And we're talking about him being the old guy. Yeah, he's the old guy. Yeah. And when you left, you were the old guy. That's right. Somebody has to be the oldest guy.

Well, it's Denny now. Yeah. But just, you know, I just, just raw talent. I like Tyler and I like Kyle Larson. Those are my guys. And I've been friends with Denny a long time. Yeah. And he likes to make fun of me, so he's not my favorite driver.

Well, last question. What was your first car? that you drove on the road that you bought? That I bought. Or it was given to you, whatever. What was your first car that you drove on the street? A four-door Ford Grand Torino, and it was my mom's car. Okay.

So I didn't buy it, and it wasn't mine. I drove her car. My dad worked at Pepsi, and he gave me a, I worked at Wendy's for a couple weeks. I cut my finger on a tomato slicer, and I quit because I said, this is too dangerous. Not my job. No, I can't do this. I might get hurt. And so then dad, he worked at Pepsi, and I was making two.

$2.35 an hour at Wendy's, and he said, you can work part-time at Pepsi, and it paid $450. Doubled it. First check I got, I went and bought a 1981 Z-28. And so that was my first car. Was that a bad move? It was a bad move. I had an 88 I Rock Camaro. That was bad move. Burned gas and the back tires off. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't, that wasn't good because I knew the guy at the Chevy dealership and I got it. I didn't have money for insurance. Yeah. So I was in a bind right off the bat. Well, that's the way that goes. Well, Mike, we could sit here and talk for three hours. I appreciate you coming in here and sharing some of your stories. Can't wait to see all these cast of characters. We'll seize cars at Rockingham. It's going to be a fun weekend and look forward

to having more conversation as we go in the future sometime. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Thank you.