Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour presented by NASCAR on FOX - NASCAR’s New Era Begins: Chase Format, Charter Settlement, and Major Personnel Moves

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

NASCAR is entering a new era, and Kevin Harvick, Kaitlyn Vincie, and Mamba Smith break down everything you need to know from a massive offseason on this episode of Kevin Harvick’s Happy Hour. The crew reacts to NASCAR reaching a settlement with 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports, the introduction of evergreen-style charters, and what the agreement means for the future of team ownership. They also dive into the stunning return of the Chase format beginning in 2026, explaining how the new postseason structure works, why the elimination era is over, and how the points system will determine a champion once again. Plus, the show covers the resignation of NASCAR Commissioner Steve Phelps, what it means for the sport’s leadership moving forward, and the latest crew chief and competition personnel changes across the garage. From major governance shifts to on-track implications, this episode breaks down one of the most consequential offseasons in modern NASCAR history. 0:00 - Intro2:41 - Offseason Catch-Up9:29 - NASCAR Reaches Settlement With 23XI & FRM14:13 - NASCAR Commissioner Steve Phelps Resigns21-51 - New Chase Format40:45 - Personnel Changes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Be very careful about what you wish for. Don't bitch about the drivers. Gathering those points. It's a thing that the kid's called war. He's got it. This is our theme for the year. What's old is new again? I might just make a comeback.

Why not? Welcome to Kevin Harvick's happy hour, presented by NASCAR and Fox. I'm Kevin Harvick. She's Caitlin Vinci. And this is an unidentified flying object. He does look like an insect. What in the world is happening here?

Listen, Bowman Gray's this weekend. I just wanted everybody to know what they should dress like for the snow. Oh, this is a PSI. Bring your goggles. Yeah, bring your goggles, get your winter hat, a nice jacket. So let me ask you this. Do we think that going to a NASCAR race when it's possibly have snowed the day before?

Now, we've been at NASCAR races where it has snowed and has been snowed out, have been to Atlanta. Yeah. We've been to several places where it's been snowy. We had a snowball fight at Bristol one year. That's cool. On the back straightaway. So this is not abnormal.

Not preferred by any means. Definitely not preferred. Definitely not preferred. Is it different to go sit? at a NASCAR race in the cold compared to a football game in the cold? Do you see it any different? I think so. Why?

I think so because at the NASCAR race, like, we're so locked in to, like, watching the race and the things going on. I think at the football games, unless it's, like, when there's a caution, that's, like, the same as, you know, a big tackle or, like, a touchdown or whatever. Everyone's, like, jumping around. There's a lot more moments where you're up jumping around, I think, and excited about stuff. And for us, we're like locked into watching it and enjoying the atmosphere.

Hard to enjoy the atmosphere. Here's how I look at it, though. I look at it is. There's a race on the schedule. If it's snowing a little bit, I'd rather it be snowing than raining. Oh, and when it's cold, you don't have any weepers because they just freeze. Fair? It's just ice.

I mean, I'm all in. Let's make it happen. You look like a marshmallow. I don't know if it's possible, but let's make it happen. It's giving marshmallow. It's giving warm, too. So I'm going to pop this jacket. Yeah, we got a-go-heat.

We got a long show ahead, guys, because it was a very news-filled off-season. So we have plenty of stories to discuss here on Happy Hour. And what are our socials, Mama, they haven't changed. Make sure you tell the fans where they can find us. Harvick. Harvick. Harvick. Harvick. Harvick. Harvick. It's H-A-R-V-I-C-K. I know it's been a long off-season. It's been a long off-season. Harvick. Harvick. Happy. Pod.

There you go. That's it. Nailed it. Got it. Good job. I don't go home. Wait to spit it out. I got you.

Listen, I will say it's been a long offseason for this hard rate. He won, though. He won a race season. I was like, it's not even February and he's already won. Well, no, first of all, I took him, I don't think, did you win last year? I did. When? Remember, this is the whole controversy with the double header.

I won the first one. I got the trophy and Keeleyn won in the second one. But this one got a little more physical. This one got a little more heated. My man, we opened our cars to her west. season for the pro late models at Tucson as part of the Chili Willie. Great event, probably definitely the biggest event that we've had. We had 40 cars show up. They had 40 super late models show up as well for their Sunday version of it. So this one fit my style. Worn out

racetrack, had to take care of the tires, couldn't just be balls to the wall the whole time and just hammer down. And so I felt like I was in a pretty good spot from practice day. He qualified on the pole, but that doesn't matter. And so... Semantics. My guy... My guy cut me off a couple times. I was on the outside of him a couple of times.

He squeezed up into the fence. I feel like he's just to the point where he knows that he can just take advantage of me. Of you specifically. Because I'm not going to tear up the cars because I know I have to pay for him. So he chopped me a little at the beginning of the race. And then I went to pass him the first time and he

leaned on my door to keep me from going and it actually towed the car to the right. And so I had to lift and he got back by me. So I was a little bit frustrated at that point. And so I knew I was way better. And I, in my mature status at this point, I felt like I just need to pass him. I don't need to tear the cars up. So I drove in there, kind of slid up and he moved me. And I was like, my wires crossed at that point. I'm like, okay, buddy, today is not your day. I went and I said, I'm going to show you exactly how you're supposed to do a bump and run when you don't want anybody to get back to your bumper. Yeah.

So I shot him up the racetrack and off. The rest is history. I mean, the right front was almost shot into the fence up there, but he made it work. I would have been okay with that too. Your interview was hilarious after. Yeah, almost put him on the fence, but I would have been fine with that. Like, that's awesome. In the end, that's how other people are going to treat him.

Like, if you move them like that, somebody's going to get back to your bumper. So, you know, those are the real life consequences that you got to get to learn sometime. How was the rest of your off season? What did you do? Oh, we had a daddy daughter dance last week. So Piper and I went to the daddy daughter dance. We're moving. So our whole life is in chaos right now. Moving is the worst. Moving is awful. Everything in my house is in boxes right now. So between everything getting started with Fox, I had to go to L.A. for our seminars for NASCAR and Fox season. Keelan went to the snowball derby and won the snowflake at the end of the year. So we didn't

race from the end of the snowflake until we went back to Tucson. We did take a break. So that was nice just to be able to kind of relax and enjoy Christmas and New Year's. So we went to a few football games and watched the Panthers into the end of the playoffs. Yeah. So that was that was fun. Great for the community. They played a great game and didn't look like, didn't look like fools out there. They looked like they belonged. They looked like they belonged. Yeah, they did look like they belonged. So that was fun. So we tried to do some normal things over the off season. Kevin had a robust off season. How was yours? Mine was pretty low key. Yeah. Yeah. So hung out. My parents, I moved my parents to the Denver area

probably a few years ago. Denver, North Carolina. They're like my neighbors. Yeah, I live right near them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty close. So I think like that's been a cheat code, honestly for me having them so close because I can just zip up to that because 15 hours away. So you don't live in the basement? No, no, no. I bought them in his house. He lives on his own. I live on my own. They live on their own. I mean, I had to ask a question because I didn't know if you moved back in like, hey, man, this house is nice. I'm going to move back into the basement like every other millennial.

I would save a lot of money, but I will say my mom does meal prep for me, so she cooks home-cooked reels, which is awesome. That's cute. I got a trainer. My boy, Thad. Wow. When do you start? I started in October.

You can't tell. I said when do you start. I know. You can't tell because I got a bag of shab. He had to know he was going to come up to do with something. I tried to just ignore those things. But, you know, he's been to his fitness. You're all. Yeah, we got to start the new year.

Yeah, well, I'm trying to get more like you. Yeah. Yeah, baby face over there. Yeah, baby face. Clean and fresh. Yeah, that's right. What about you, KV? I spent a lot of time with my kids.

I went to the mountains a lot, Western Carolina, because I like to give tourism back to that area as they're still kind of recovering from the hurricane. So I went there probably four times, honestly. I love it up there. And while I was there, I went to an antique mall where there's a bunch of different vendors set up inside. That's where old stuff is? Well...

It's an antique store, of course. Okay. Yes. And no, there was one specifically that had a bunch of racing die casts. And I honed in on, I saw Harvick the name popping out of the corner of the box because it was kind of tucked back, went and it was the E.T. Car, which my son loves racing, and he also loves E.T. So this is a match made in heaven.

So I gave it to him. And he's so excited. about it. It's a very cool paint scheme, Kevin. Does it bring back some fond memories? No, it's a great, that's a great picture. Yeah. And I love the fact that that car is still in existence. That was a great promotion. Back in those days, we did, they probably made 100,000 or something of those cars. And I raced one on Friday. That was the, that was the weekend that I jumped over Greg Biffel's car. Oh, he crashed me on Saturday. I looked all this up. And so that was the Sunday car. So we ran them back to back, and that was the promotion of the relaunch of the 20th anniversary.

Was the other car red? You had two E.T. cars. Yeah. My son loves it. It was locked in already. Listen, we are fans of E.T. and Kevin and racing in our house. So, we look at all of them. I'm glad to know that my stuff is nostalgic and living in the antique stores. You're a classic now. I tried to comfort Kevin on this by saying there are a lot of young drivers who are also in the store. Yeah. And not saying he's not young, but just clarify. I'm not young. I'm not young. He's not young. I did turn 50. Yeah. Over the off season. I'm not saying he's old, but he's definitely not young.

He's very sprightly. Yeah, didn't you just go to the, you got your annual checkup? Oh my God. I did. Check your dipstick and everything. Surely, we don't need to talk about this. 50's a different, different type of physical. That's for sure. A little more uncomfortable. A little more. But, you know, necessary, but uncomfortable.

Everything checked out. Yeah. Guys in a 37-year-old body right now. He's fine. Episode two, things are already going haywire on this show. No surprise there. As I mentioned at the top of the show, lots of news in the offseason. And I have been never happier to share the first news item we're going to talk about. And it's NASCAR reaches a settlement with 2311 racing, front row motorsports after two and a half years of negotiation. Thank you, Jesus. This went on. Yes. I mean, what a nightmare for the guys that, the way that it all worked out for the teams in 2311 is, I feel, I feel really. really happy for the teams that they got what they deserve, from the evergreen charters to being able to know that they have invested in something that they're going to get to keep. Makes complete sense. I hate that we had to go down the road of everything that we went down with everything that came out in court. I was watching all these court cases going, oh my God, I am so happy we don't have to report on this every week. But how do we cover it all

when we go back? And it's over, though. So at least we can summarize. everything that went on. But I'm happy, I'm happy it's over. You know, I think that it obviously resulted in a lot of, you know, things that that have changed since the lawsuit happened. I think that when you look at Michael Jordan, he's done this before with the, you know, the NBA and putting up the fight and fighting for the teams and doing the things that they did. Denny Hamlin, you know, he went through a year last year from a pressure standpoint with everything that he was doing. and for the championship and going through this lawsuit, trying to run his team and everything that they were trying to navigate.

And then you look at it from the NASCAR side, trying to grow the sport and trying to do everything that you're doing while you're being sued in this, you know, at a high level from a very public figure in Michael Jordan. How do you win? But ultimately, in the end, just from, I wasn't in the court or, you know, just watching all of Bob's reports and everybody who was reporting on everything,

seemed like a pretty one-sided fight. It seemed like 2311 pretty much took it to NASCAR from everything that went on. And in the end, you know, I think NASCAR just decided that we're not going to win this and we need to settle this and get this over with. A big thanks to Bob Pockris, by the way, because the media boots on the ground

were very helpful in disseminating all the information of things that was going on at the trial. Big word. But it was going to take somebody like Michael Jordan to challenge this. system and rides to this task at hand. Yeah. Well, scared money don't make money.

And Michael Jordan's made a lot of it. So he ain't scared. And, you know, to Kevin's point, like, just how it all came down, the watching it, it was like when you're watching your family members, like, fight at the Thanksgiving table, it's just like, it was, it sucked watching it because you have friends on both sides of this. We're all a part of this whole thing. And the teams deserved to have the evergreen charters that needed to be in place. And I, for most people that I spoke to, like that part seemed like a no-brainer.

Like on both sides, it didn't seem like that should have been even a huge question of the matter. I think it was how we got to that point, which ultimately was the question. And they put up the good fight. They did what they had to do. And I'm glad everyone settled. I wish it would have settled before we even got to it. I feel like we didn't need to go into it. and we could have gotten to the same point, if not better.

And a lot of things, it ended up being a lot of slander. That's the part I hate it. This could have been said on like one meeting. Yeah. Both parties seem happy, though, with the outcome, which I think is a possible. Well, I did like the fact that they stood up there together and gave the solidarity statements of everything of trying to move on. Now, in the end, you know, I think even when you look at it from a 2311 side,

And when you look at trying to hire employees and doing all the things that they were trying to do, I think there was still a lot of question marks of, okay, is this team actually still going to be here? When this all gets done if they lose, I don't want to go to work there right now. So I think there are still things that from a team standpoint, 2311 is going to have to build back up because I feel like they probably missed out on the opportunity of hiring some employees along the line because of the fight that they were in from a next. NASCAR side, I believe that they have an opportunity to really look at themselves and say, okay, what did we learn through all this and how can we reshape our company to,

this is a good opportunity to reshape things and the internal structure of how it all happened. Obviously, Steve Phelps, you know, he stepped down after this was all said and done, and we know that the comments that he made about Richard Childress and, And, you know, what he said in those texts became public. I think we all talk a lot about our friends here and there that you might, you know, text some things that, you know, you probably don't mean. But in the end, they came out in the court of law and they became public information. And I think I just, Steve has done a lot of great things in our sport. But I don't think that, I don't think that from a fan's perspective, they could overcome the fact that he said those things about.

one of the most iconic figures in the sport. Yeah. And save face. And so I think that somebody was going to have to take the fall in the end, whether it was Steve Phelps or Jim France or Steve O'Donnell, whoever it was. And ultimately, it was commissioner, Steve Phelps. And, I mean, do we need a commissioner?

Well, I don't think anybody wants to be like other sports. I don't think we need a commissioner. I don't want to hear about football. I don't want to hear about anything. I want it to be, we're racing. And I think we heard, you know, Dale Jr. especially talk about we're different. Our fans are different than other sports. It says they have no plans, obviously, to replace the commissioner at this time when they announced that Steve Phelps was resigning.

To your point, like, I think all of my interactions I ever had with Steve Phelps over the years were very positive. Like he would stop, talk to you on Pitt Road, shake your hand. He would come to our Fox Sports seminars and address the state of the sport. I felt like he did a lot of good things. He helped bring the sport back after COVID. that was him kind of spearheading all of those efforts. But I think once those text messages were brought to light, that version of him did not align with the character I had seen the whole time I had known him.

It didn't even seem like the same person, to be honest. I mean, I think we all got to remember that people are human. Like, he is at the high level, and those are things that you can't, you definitely can't have it out there, right? That's not good. But, you know, human emotions happen, and sometimes there's ramifications for those things. And we all have in our phones text messages to people that we probably shouldn't say

because in case that it did go out like it's out there, right? No to self. Yeah, no, I have completely changed how I've done texting people. I'll text a lot nicer now. If I have something to say that's like maybe borderline, I'm making more phone calls now than I was before. But, you know, to Kevin's point, like somebody had to somebody had to, somebody had to take the hell on that.

They wouldn't have been able to recover from them without making it change. You had to make some type of change and it happened. Steve has always been a really great guy to me and supporter of me. And we've had great conversations about where the sport was going. I think he genuinely cares about the sport. And there was a lot of good things that he did, a lot of great things that he did. So it sucks that we're losing somebody by the same time, you know, when stuff like this happens. Right.

And it's a chance to really look in the mirror and be like, okay, this kind of hurt. How do we learn from this? Because that's the funny thing about pain is it makes people learn lessons. At least it should. And then the other thing that I just want to note real quick was the 2311 and the NASCAR piece. One thing that kind of gets mixed up in all this is the amount of partners that were NASCAR official partners and also 2311 partners is interesting at what level they're at. right. DoorDash was a partner of 2311 and NASCAR at the same time. Xfinity was a partner of NASCAR and 2311 at the same time.

They just announced this new one with Hardee's. Hardy's going to be at 2311 and it's at NASCAR. Like it's very interesting. And some of those things were happening already, right? And some of them happened probably right after I announced at the same time. It's interesting how the relationship is because you got a brand that's in the middle of both of it. And if it were mine, if it were mine and I would look at this. you hear, you know, we'll talk about the chase later and going back on the format, you know,

you talk about, I just believe that the culture that I was brought up in this sport, that badass, don't care about what everybody else thinks. We are NASCAR racing. We are different than everybody else. We don't need to care about everything that's happening in the world. We need to stay in our lane and not react to every single situation that, that has. happens. I think that's important. I think that that badass culture that we are and not trying to soften that up to make it fair for everybody like we did with some other box. We don't need to fit another box. We need to keep that badass culture that that's always been NASCAR racing and not try to fit into every box that falls along the way. Let's stay in our lane and do the things

that make us great. And I think that just watching and listening to people inside the sport, it feels like we're going to head back down that direction. And that is good for the sport and being able to be who we are and not worry about trying to be something else. We don't want to be basketball. Basketball's falling apart. You're not the NFL. To own our identity as it. It's simple. It is the most simple identity. ever. All you have to do is fire the cars up, go on the racetrack, and put on a race and just be yourself. And it's just not to overcomplicate things. But I think that that culture needs to live from the top all the way through the PR department. Right? Like, let's not worry about

what we might, what somebody else did. Keep it simple. Keep it in our lane and don't get out of the box too far. And I think we're better off trying to just be I think it's okay not to, it's okay for us not to be the NFL or be major league baseball, it's okay for us to not, I've had a lot of thought about this over the offseason. Because I talk to more people than probably most do on whether they're in the industry or fans. And I just come to this like thought where it's like it's okay to just be in our box to your point and to really own it and look at what works in other places. but not try to be 100% of those other things.

Like, I want this sport to grow as much as it possibly can because I think this is the best sport in all of sports. However, maybe it won't, but that's okay because if we are here and around and are still putting racecoes on track and fans are still excited and brands are still coming, like, does it matter if we're... Well, it's something really simple, right?

Like, when we redid the Daytona International Speedway and we started calling the front stretch grandstands, the stadium section, Like, we're not in a stadium. We're in a racetrack. Right. It's the front stretch grandstands, right? Like, it's just simple things like that to me that just sometimes fly all over me that we just, we want to get outside of the culture that we have.

Just keep it simple. Keep it in our lane. Do the things that got us here right and not overthink it. And in the end, the playoff format, it was going to create this great seventh game moment. that we were supposed to have and everybody was going to tune in, didn't happen. Never happened. Took a long time to get back. We're back on a track where, you know, your season matters, the points matter. We're going to crown a champion that everybody can be, can be proud of. We're talking about authenticity to NASCAR and Kevin just mentioned it. The format has changed,

once again, back to the Chase Championship for this season. NASCAR announced it. This was met widely with a lot of positive reception. I thought from the competitors, the fans, the industry, You guys have been talking about it. I think Chase Elliott's always kind of said it best, too. We are racing. We don't need to be like other sports. What works for them may not work for us. Now we're back to this.

You certainly were a proponent of changing the format. Now there's no more win and you're in. All that's over. So I got to assume you're quite happy with the change. It is. And I think it's a great compromise. There's a lot of parties involved. You got the television who wants, you know,

they want those cuts every three races and they want those moments. But they're fabricated. Right. And you know, you see moments like that that, that, you know, in the end, Denny Hamlin had the best playoffs, right? And probably arguably, he had one of the best season. But his playoffs were pretty style. And in the end, it came down to a pick call that cost him the opportunity. And it's just those, those one moments are great. But how many of those one moments have we seen after a season long battle of points to be able to crown the champion? and it came down to that moment.

And then everybody's fine with it because you've got so many things that led to that one moment that the one moment doesn't make or break your season. And it just, where we landed with the chase and the points

and getting more points for winning, I think that was a great addition to the format to be able to still put that emphasis on winning because winning still has to be important. But when you get a DNF, it needs to hurt. It's going to hurt now. It's going to hurt.

And I think it's going to affect, it's going to affect guys. I mean, Kyle Larson has the most amount of DNFs. You know, he has, he's right up on the top of the list with the, with the highest in DNFs. And it's going to make guys like Chase Elliott who are consistent and can be able to put together week after week after week. But also, those are the types of guys that can take a 15th place car and finish fifth, the Joey Lagano's, Chase Elliott, William Byron's working his. his way there. Those days where you struggle and you can do it better than other people, those days need to matter as well. So it's going to change a lot of the things that happen. You think back to all those moments where Cliff Daniels was trying to figure out how to get his

car back on the racetrack. Think about how many teams didn't do that. And now getting back out on the racetrack after you crash and getting those one or two spots at Talladega or wherever you might be to gather those points. The whole thought process is a little bit different on a lot of things that go with this format and how you race. And as a competitor, that's what you think about. Okay, I only race to the format. I don't make the format. I don't care what the format is. I just want to win. And now there's a lot more of those thought processes that have to go into place on those moments that are going to happen time after time after time week after week of things that are going to happen. Don't you think it's going to be harder? I mean, in years past, we'd see people win,

and then they disappear for weeks, maybe months, not really doing anything. Well, the whole win-in-your-in thing at the beginning of the year, you can't just start working on your playoff cars. No, it doesn't work like that. Now it's a totally different game. Because if you're past fifth or sixth when you get into that playoff format, you're done.

Unless you have a Tony Stewart-type chase where you win five of the ten races, that's the only way you're going to claw your way back into it, which that's the part that's great about the format. is you still have that opportunity. If you win five out of the ten races that you can claw your way back in. But man, if you're much outside of fifth or sixth

by the time you get to the chase, you're going to be in big trouble. Yeah. As far as winning the championship. Yeah. No, I mean, I think, as I sat on here, time in time, I didn't mind. No, more bright lights, buddy.

No, no, no. The lights are brighter now. Oh, lights are brighter. Now they're bright every week. They're bright every week. So, like, they were bright before, but now you really better not mess up. Yeah. Do not dim these lights, people.

Like, now you can't just come back the next week and get all those points back, right? I think she threw it right at you, didn't she? She tried to. She threw it right over there. But the stage is still huge. It's even more now, more so now if that's what everyone wanted, which is what they want it, which is cool. I'm fine with this change. I honestly, again, to your point, I'm a race.

I don't care about what format is. I just want to win, whatever we're doing. And I think, like, the people that think, like, someone like Joey Lugano isn't going to, this isn't an advantage to him because they're like, they're like, well, he runs 17th. Okay, well, if he runs 17th on average all year and the guy that's the best average is 12th, I mean, what are we really talking about? Who's it hurt the worst? Who's it hurt the worst? I think Larson has to figure out now he can't send it. Right.

He can't send it every week. Chase Briscoe, I think, is in that same little mentality. He was pretty consistent, though. Yeah, but he's not scared. Like, the guys that aren't scared and their risk versus reward, they were willing to risk a lot. Yeah. I think it hurts them.

Like someone like a Blaney. SVG, it helps. I mean, oh my God, SVGs, it's going to be tough because... I mean, they built that whole program around winning this format. Right. And now he needs to, their cars have to be better. We'll get to them. Yeah, for sure.

Because of the, now he has to run the ovals. The whole thing matters now. He was starting to improve on those. Yeah, he was getting better. But now everybody's going to be in a different mindset. And I also think it's going to affect the end of these races as well. Because now when you're chasing someone down, maybe it's like, do I really want to send it down in there? Maybe get loose underneath them and wreck.

And then all those points that we just accumulated are junk, right? Like those moments are going to change. I think back to, you know, that's the funny part about this cycle because, you know, you look, at, you look at the Chicago Street course going away, right? Going back to Chicago Land Speedway on the Oval. Obviously, a lot of rumors about the Roval going back to the Oval. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think that, which I don't disagree with any of those changes. No, no, no. You know, I think that, but when you look at those, when you look at those moments where people get out and say, yeah, it was a great point stay, and it used to just drive the fans

through the roof. Through the roof. And so, remember, be very careful. about what you wish for. Hey, he said it. Remember that. Don't bitch about the drivers talking about points. Getting out of the car, gathering those points and having a great points day. So there's a catch-22 in all scenarios. But it is part of the game.

You have to be able to manage yourself and it can't just be throw it all away. I never like to just throw it all the way hoping that you could just have that one win because there's more to it. Now, you can still win, but it's not just the drive in there and slam them scenario that might cost you points. Let's show some specifics of the format that they've announced, because also worth noting the 25-point premium awarded to the regular season champion as well. So here's some different pieces to this announcement for the Chase format. Yes, as we've talked about, it's going to change a lot of things the way these teams approach their Sundays. One thing that a lot of people I saw in my exchanges,

they thought 16 drivers was too much, and I think 16 is fine. Here's the thing I like about 16. I don't mean to interrupt this one. The thing that I like about 16, if you've had a shit season and you clawed your way into 16th and you're on a roll and you can finish fifth or sixth in the points, that's a massive difference, and you'll earn it.

I like the fact that you've got to earn it. And you can't just get that one win, have a couple of good weeks, get yourself into the playoffs, and you're just locked in. The guys who aren't running good at the end of the year, the whole year matters. If you're not running good those last 10 weeks and things aren't going good and another guy's hit on it and surpasses them in the points, it gives you a room to improve yourself off of running good. And to your point, if you're on that trajectory and you're 16th, now you have to be a room. You have an opportunity to be like fifth. You might not make it all the way, but like you can go into your partnership meetings

at the end of the year and all these things. Look at the run that we put on. We figured some stuff out mid-season, carried that through next year we're going to feel even better about it. Money, baby. It's about the dollars. We're talking about sponsorship dollars, but with the charters. The 16th to fifth, you know, from a charter worth over the three-year average of what's

what you're worth from a charter standpoint, 16th to fifth is. a massive difference in what that charter is worth. So new format announced, well, what is old as new again, I guess. Yeah, that's right. You wish you were still racing with Kevin? It's like going to the antique store. You know, you see some stuff there? I might just make a comeback.

I was wondering. Why not? Tony's doing it? Yeah, I mean, Tony Stewart's going to drive the truck race at Daytona. Why not? What should we race? I'm starting to get the bug again, I think. Phoenix?

Phoenix. Phoenix? In what? An ex-finity car. I mean, O'Reilly. Cubs are too much work. What could I just get in and drive? O'Reilly series or the Craftsman trucks.

Let's do Crasman trucks. I would love that. Please make sure it's a race. Let's do that. When's the last time you want a truck race? I don't know. Those bodies must have been way different. Probably the last.

I think I won. I know I won the last. We won the Owners Championship. And then I think we won the race as well. In KHA. I ran a couple of other truck races when we sold the team as part of the deal. got myself in trouble, got a hammer thrown at me.

Remember that. That was cool. Yeah. Made a fool out of myself, but I was good at that. The two might be available still. You might be able to jump back in the two. You want a lot more in the two than the 33. I did. Yeah.

I did. I think as a kid. Hornaday ran the 33. Yeah. So, yeah, the two truck was kind of our all-star truck. Krafton ran the six for you guys? He ran the first year in the six, yeah. And then Hornaday took over the second year.

Yeah, yeah. I like what I'm hearing that Kevin may potentially run potentially run a truck race. Yeah. If you do, let me get a radio. I just want to be to tap in every once in a while.

See what you're doing. Yeah, I mean, it seems like we're just, we're going back to what's old as new again, so. That's what I'm saying.

Why not? This is our theme for the year. What's old is new again? Who would my sponsor be? I'd get better money. We could get good wrench to come back on this thing. That'd be cool.

Bush. Bush. That's what I'm saying. So I pointed at the hood. This is called Bush. I don't know. Sounds like a lot of work. No, real quick, though.

Did you see the new? Late model racing is pretty fun. This is way off topic because you brought a Bush up. Josh Jones posted Anheuser-Bush's new, it was a new content on their Instagram with the Clydesdale and this bird that turned into an eagle. It is awesome. Have I ever told you the story? No.

About the, when we announced the Budweider deal? No. All right. We're a little off topic. I love story time. Great story. So in 2010, we lost Shell, 2011 Budweiser was coming on board. So they, you know, Budweiser was always through the roof on activation and the things that they did.

So we announced the Budweiser deal. My very first appearance was in New Orleans after it was at the end of 2010. And we rode the, I rode the hitch of the Clydesdale. The Clydesdales, we rode them from downtown, down to Bourbon Street. Oh my. They shut Bourbon Street down. And we delivered beer

to ten the top ten wholesalers on bourbon street. One event at a time. Hell yeah. I'd get off the Clydesdale, I'd get off the hitch, walk down,

deliver to the beer of the bar, get back up on the hitch, we'd ride to the next one. Listen, man, that's when we... Do you even throw beads at you? No, he'd throw beads at you? No, he'd throw a bead.

Yeah. Yeah. Bourbon Street's wild. I've been there. I've been there one time. I think we should to have a NASCAR race somewhere in New Orleans, nearby. I think that's me at time. Yeah. That'd be a good time.

That's a good story. I'm surprised you haven't told us that one yet. Well, I remember things randomly. Listen, you got to kind of shake, you got to shake the bag, and then you see what falls out. Because Kevin, he's antique. He doesn't know exactly. Oh, my. I think I've told this.

Did I tell the story about the first race that we won at SHR? No. Yeah, so they used to give me a credit card. And my job was when I would go to the bars, I would just buy drinks or a whole bar. Yes. You have told this one. So, yeah, we went there and we bought 22, Budwisers for the whole bar in Vegas at Vegas and that was our celebration party yeah yeah we do that

again don't you still have like a bush light card or something I'm sure we could arrange it I'm sure he's can you do that we can't arrange the bush light car the late model somewhere before I'm sure that we could probably figure that out um so one more thing I want to ask while we're talking about the points and all that who we've talked about who we think it will be a disadvantage to who do you think could be the one with an advantage with I I mean the guys with experience I still think it's going to be it's going to be the Denny Hamlin, Joey Legano. Yeah, give me five. Give me five.

I'd say Hamlin, Legano. I think Blaney is, I mean, he had a little spell at the beginning of the year last year where he had some things go wrong. But he's usually super consistent. So Blaney, I think William Byron has ventured into that category. Chase Elliott? Chase Elliott, I mean, when you look at his stats, I mean, they're finishers. They're old school racers.

And I think that that style of racing is going to matter. to be able to gather all those points. Yeah. It's different now, right? Like, you're not guessing who's in the final four. Yeah, I'm kind of glad that's over. So, like, I, yeah, like top five, right? Because that's really what we're,

kind of all you can kind of guess it off of. I would look at Blaney. I would look at William Byron. And mainly because those two guys have been perennials at the end of the season anyway. And then you got C. Bell. I think that cat is hungry. And that he was one of the biggest proponents to a change.

So he, this is, you know, you got what he asked for. But you can't have those blowups, right? Like, no, now you can't have the beginning. You can't have those weekends like we talk about with Bell and some of these guys. You're in Byron. Yeah, you can't have those moments where, you know, the wheels fall off and you finish 20th. If you have three finishes, if you have three finishes of 25th or worse after you've had a top five day. Better be winning.

Like, flipping that back over is not going to be. Multiple wins. It's a whole lot easier. And a lot of that will start at Daytona. They will be taking points. And it starts in those qualifying races. And they start gathering points there, and you better start counting them. And Clint Boyer will, he hates when I talk about this, but it is more important now, just like it used to be.

You better start counting those points. I could see a briscoe doing well with this format. Well, Briscoe is going to do better anyway because of the fact that they're on year two. And the thing about the thing about the Briscoe team, how do you? team, how do you come back and carry that same enthusiasm of preparation? You know, James has got to stay hard on Chase with everything that he did last year, maybe even go at him a little bit harder because, you know, carrying that enthusiasm, we talk about this on here. How do you carry that enthusiasm every single week? And this is what Jimmy Johnson and Chad Canals created, right?

And I've talked about this after we won in 14, the first conversation we had is, okay, how do we be like the 48. How do we carry that enthusiasm and what they do on an every single week basis? It's hard. And with this car, it's going to be even harder. So you're going to see, you're going to see some guys that have the same trend. They're going to fire off good for the first five or six weeks. You're going to start to stumble. And then you're going to see some other teams start to start to make it up. But you know, you look at a guy like Joey Lugano that can take those weeks where they're struggling, which I'm worried about. the fords in general.

Just, you know, I think Blaney has carried the torch. But, you know, the guys that can carry their team to decent finishes until they get things sorted, those are the guys that you've got to look out for that keep them, keep themselves in the game. I'm really looking.

Even a guy like Brad Keselowski. Yeah. I'm really, I'm really looking at what this does for Kyle Bush. I think this is probably a better, a better situation for him. Better, like they, because they weren't perennial winners, right? And he could,

he can still put the car on his back and create that. And now that it's about points and not about, well, if we don't win, we're screwed anyway, that might be a better situation for him. And 2311 last year, Tyler Redick was not, the 45 was not the same 45 that we saw the year before. Bubba Wallace had a lot of speed, but they couldn't finish a lot of races. They finally won the brickyard. So, like, what are those two guys, obviously they got Riley Herps on year two? But what are those guys and what's that team going to do this year?

The lawsuit thing is gone. Now you can focus in on just race cars. What do we got? Reddick's got a win. Got to. He was brought there to win. And not winning is, he's at the point where it's a failure. So alarming.

Yeah. And Kyle Busch winning for our sport would be massive. It'd be great for our CR. But for our sport in general, Kyle Busch to get back into Victory Lane, I don't know. You know, is new crew chief coming in, restructuring Mike Dillon back at back at the head of the operation, will the RCR cars be better? But Kyle Busch can't spend out and wreck as much as he did either if he's going to be in the game. But Kyle Busch winning, just if we just need Kyle Busch to win one race because he is such an intricate part of the sport. Just the sport in general. And I,

and I hate to see where it's at right now for him because whenever he does retire, he doesn't, you don't want that legacy to go out like Jimmy Johnson did, right? where you go three years without winning races. And, you know, to me, I'm rooting for Kyle Busch. That's rare. He's still rooting for Kyle Busch. I mean, post-career, me, I root for Kyle Busch because it sucks when you see something

that's been so successful, not be in victory lane. And he's still great. That's the thing. He still has all the tools. It's not like he's, I don't think he's missed a step or lost a step. I just think it hasn't come together with this car and they need to figure that out.

Well, you guys are talking about Kyle Busch, which Kevin mentioned it, Jim Pullman, now the crew chief for him who helped guide Justin Algeyer, of course, to a championship in the Xfinney series. That will be the guy on top of the pit box for Kyle in 2026. So what about trackouts? How do you think this dynamic is going to be this year with their trio of drivers? Yeah, well, I think that there's a lot of questions, right? Like they've made a number of changes within their organization. Got two new crew chiefs with their cars. They've got a new driver with a new driver with, with Connor Zillich coming in to replace Daniel Suarez. I think that SVG is he got a lot better on the ovals.

He's obviously changed the game on road courses. He's going to get back to Victory Lane. The interesting dynamic to me is on the road courses, how does Connor adapt to the road courses and does he get to the point where they competed like they did in the O'Reilly Series? Grand National Series. In the Grand National Series.

Do they compete like they did head to head in the Grand National series? And is there a possibility that they split those races up with their dominance? So, you know, I think Connor has a high ceiling of potential. I think SVG has a high ceiling of potential, even on the ovals with the progression that he's had. We saw him run great at the clash last year. We saw him start to run better on the mile and a halfs with some top tens. Connor's got a whole new world in front of him. I actually got to sit down with Connor and do an interview for the pre-race at the clash.

And, you know, there's just so many things that he's going to have to navigate. And I think that it's just how does he acclimate to the car and the style of racing and all the things that go with cup racing. There's as big a step as you're ever going to take in your career going from Grand National to Cup. So it's very the dynamic, you expect Ross Chastain to win, right? like we just said this about Tyler Redick, he's got to win. Ross has to win. He has the work ethic. He has the talent. He has everything that he needs personally. And it all comes down to how fast

the cars are for all of these guys, especially when it comes to the ovals. Yeah. I'll be curious to see how Connor and SVG elevate each other. Rising tides, raise all ships those days. Yeah, they, I mean. Their own toughest competitors will be each other on those roadcourses. Yeah, I mean, on the, in the O'Reilly series, Grand National. series. They were definitely throwing haymakers at each other whenever they could. And here it's a little, it's completely different because there SVG wasn't raising for anything but the win. Yeah.

Connor was, I mean, obviously he was already in the, what was the playoffs then, but like, they were racing for different things. Now when you're at the top level, when you guys wreck each other, your owner is going to feel a lot different about that than how Dale Jr. was feeling about it last year. So I think their relationship is going to change And it should iron should sharpen iron in that situation I think the interesting part for SVG Last year I remember he posted a video

I think it was from Vegas explaining the air moving And there's a video of him on track The air moving how close to the wall the lanes all the things And he's learning this stuff real time And he was explaining it as racing IQ is super high Super high so his floor is high high and what pushes his ceiling higher because we don't know what he could be because he's basically in year two right i mean it's like we don't know exactly that this will be on the oval so i would

expect a lot of him and then you look at connor zillich he's like when you look at other sports he's like the the kid the guy that came from outside the u.s playing now sports in the u.s and you expect him to be at a high level because he's a world-class athlete he's a world-class driver right he's been racing with grown man at the top series all over the world but it's different here and we're different here and now you're racing with specialists in this and how he can elevate and become one of those specialists but he has everything here's a thing that the kids call aura he's got it like he's got the it factory is a clean look he's a well-spoken kid everyone likes him and then he's got he's super smart super smart and then you got ross and ross is like

ross is your workhorse and he's been leading this team i think for a while as far as holding it all together, right? Because Daniel was on one-year deal after one-year deal. Ross has kind of been your cornerstone to your franchise, and he's done a great job in the media. He wins big races, but he has to win more than one. Especially with this deal. And he's another one

that can be sneaky with this point system. Because he's a grinder. And you know, I think that we left him out earlier of being able to take a 15th place car, which he had a lot last year, and finishing the top 10 with it and sneak out some top fives. Ross is one of those guys that

that can grind those out. But if Ross Chastain isn't winning races, your cars aren't fast enough. Yeah, that's a fair, yeah, yeah. That's the bottom line. He's as good as anybody else, I think. He should be winning multiple races every year. And if you're not winning races,

your cars are not fast enough. You guys have been talking about that. Now, hold on. Oh, we got a wild card in all this. They do have a new body. They do have a new body. They do have a new body. Chevrolete has a new body.

So, with, What happens with the new body, Kevin? I don't think you'll see it at Bowman Gray. I think that, but when you get to Daytona, you've got to work the balance out. So I think that there is going to be some, it might not be, but I mean, there's going to be,

they might be great on super speedways, they might be great on short tracks, they might be great on intermediates. We don't really know that yet. They're guessing. They've done no more than guess at this point. They can tell you whatever they want, but they're going to have to work out the balance

of that new body. it will take them some time to get it worked out on all the tracks. They're probably going to hit it somewhere. Yeah. But I don't think any of us know exactly which type of track. Anytime a new body's introduced, it does come with some growing pain. So I had a funny story I wanted to add really fast on Connor Zillich. When we were at the hangar shoot, you know, the room with all the extras,

we had a very cool room where there's 30 extras in there. It was weird. Kyle, the shots looked amazing. Shots looked great, but it was weird. So Kyle Bush was in there and Connor Zillich was on deck. and Kyle Busch yells out to him. He said, hey, Connor, I found all your extras for when you get hurt again.

Oh, man. I was like, oh, that's a burner. That's pretty good. Kyle has one minor. He's a witty humor. Bro, he's pretty witty. I've got to hand it to him. Yeah.

Well, the hangar shoe. It'll be interesting. Yeah. We're hoping for no injuries, Connor. We don't want to put that energy out there. So. Paul Bush won a championship and missed 11 races. He broke two legs.

He broke two legs. I can't remember who finished second. Again, those are. of the things we're going to remember about Kyle. Yeah. So one other little story that kind of matriculated for a bit was Chris Gabehart. What was that word? Can you say that again, please?

Matriculated. Say it slowly so we can try to. I'll give you another word. It's circled around. Oh, that's what that means? Okay. Circle around. Yeah.

Okay. Was Chris Gabehart potentially leaving Gibbs. Obviously, he's been an integral part for quite some time. Yeah. I mean, Chris has been a huge part of the 11 team. You know, I think that, so as a business owner for me going through the years, it's always interesting the difference in a crew chief and a general manager, competition director, whatever it is.

And, you know, I think that there's some of those crew chiefs that can step out of that box and do things in another role. Some are just built for crew chief, right? So it is interesting to see how all of this unfolded, with Chris Gavehart and everything that happened at Joe Gibbs Racing. So I'm not sure the details of what, why, or, you know, how it all played out. But, you know, I think that Chris is a smart guy. Obviously, he's been right there, won a lot of races with Denny Hamlin, won a lot of races

in other divisions. And, you know, I think the interesting part to me is last year, I would say the 11 team was as good as they've ever been. With a different crew chief. With a different crew chief. Now, I think Chris being, you know, on the competition side and still being there, helped that 11 teams stay together. But those guys did a phenomenal job.

So very interesting scenario to see how it's all cycled out with Gabe Hart, not there anymore. Yeah, I mean, that's probably as big of news as Rodney moving from Spire. middle of last year. I mean, like when I think of the crew chiefs that have been around and are renowned throughout the garage, like, it's Rodney and Chris. Like, those are the two guys. And so it's going to be a loss, how it's a loss. We probably won't really know until the season gets going and see how that works. And we also don't know where he's going to end up but what he's going to end up doing. So he's kind of out on the ether. And it's February. And it's February. Like, we're going to do a race this weekend. You know what I mean? And he's

He's one of the most talented crew chiefs of, like in the sport, and he's available. So who's going to write the check, you know? Yeah. Somebody's writing the check. Real quick, because I just mentioned Rodney, the JARM team, what they have from a driver lineup over there is absolutely bonkers. I'm so intrigued. I know that the driver lineup, but just from a personal standpoint, because I know Rodney

so well, just him working on what we raced. so well. Yeah. With that, that style of car somewhat in the, in the Grand National series, is very intriguing to me

and just what he thinks of, of the garage and how it functions and the style of racing and having multiple drivers. I can't wait to see and hear what he has to say, see what happens and hear what he has to say out of the racetrack to, to hear his experience.

That's going to be very interesting. It'll be like, I would have to imagine. I'm excited to see what he says. I think it'll be like what Parker Cligerman says. Classic stock car racing is where that is. And I think he'll feel probably at home in that space. What point does it become classic?

When there's a gap between what you're doing and what, like you're a classic. Yeah. You know? Like Keelan's new. You're a classic. Yeah, you're a classic. I think Rodney has Connor, or not Carson, Connor. Carson Quaple.

and Connor Zillich. That's right. And then in the 88, which is almost all hundred cars.com, from what I understand, is like all their cup guys and Raj has like a half season in it. So like what the information and the things going on at JRM are pretty high level. Yeah. And I think it's, you know, for Coopple, I think it's really interesting because he's a winner and he's really good at what he does. I think he had a bad situation with what he was doing last year and in the scenario. And I just, I think his, the evolution that we'll see Carson go through, just having a leader like Rodney and the experience that Rodney has is going to be fun to watch as well.

There are many reasons to be intrigued as we look towards the 2020. I can't wait. I'd love this time of season. All of the series. So we will see everyone once again Tuesday after the clash first race of the year in a snowy potentially Winston-Salem venue. we can't wait for it. So make sure you follow us on social media, subscribe on YouTube, wherever you get your podcast, and we will see you all after the clash.