Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour presented by NASCAR on FOX - Offseason Rewind! Teams win lawsuit against NASCAR, Crew Chief Changes, NASCAR’s New Rules, and more!

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

Kevin Harvick, Kaitlyn Vincie, and Mamba Smith are back to break down the biggest storylines of the NASCAR offseason! The crew starts the show by introducing our new presenting sponsor, EchoPark Automotive! Then, Kevin, Kaitlyn, and Mamba share how they spent their offseason. Then, they discuss big updates for teams and drivers, debate which crew chief change will have the biggest impact this season, and react to NASCAR’s new rule changes for the 2025 season. Then, Mamba shares his ‘Social Sips’ and the crew makes their picks for The Clash! 0:30 - Offseason Recap 6:38 - Teams/Drivers Offseason Updates 16:22 - Driver Marketing Incentive Program 25:04 - Crew Chief Changes 35:42 - 2025 NASCAR Rule Changes 50:09 - Mamba’s Social Sips 55:29 - Last Call! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

That's the thing I don't like about this rule. You know, I think it caught a lot of people off guard. I love the intent, and I love the fact that, you know, it's going to attract people from, you know, other forms of racing. But I don't like the fact that it left out our own. Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour, presented by Echo Park Automotive and NASCAR on Fox. And we got a sponsor. We do. How exciting.

Yeah. Here, too. How about that? I love it. We must have done something right. She's Caitlin Vincy. Yeah. We don't know.

who this guy is. He's been gone so much. He's a world traveler. He's a world traveler here, Mamba Smith. But it does feel good to be back in the studio. Everything's kind of the same other than our lovely sponsor. Our lovely sponsor. Very exciting. We're excited to have the folks from Echo Park Automotive on board. Here we go again. Here we go again, guys. Closers are in for another season. We're so excited. We have plenty to talk about on this show because a lot happened since the last time we filmed a happy hour. Many happenings. in the sport, of course. It will break down a lot of those.

We encourage the closers to keep subscribing on YouTube, wherever you get your podcast, leave some five stars and some reviews as well. So what are you having? Yeah, and of course, you know, Mamba Social Sips, your favorite part. That's right. Oh, shoot, I left that out.

Yeah, of course that's coming back. And we have like a little addition to that you'll be sharing. Yeah, yeah. We want to get you guys more involved with the show. So got something coming up. I was a little bit worried when we started right there. I didn't know if she had told you about the extra edition of things that were happening before the show. I thought you might stumble a little bit there might still be in the

beach brain. Because you missed the meeting? Yeah. I'm on. Our guy here, our guy here, we had our first meeting of the year and our guy decides that he's just going to show up 45 minutes. That's good. It's good stuff. We appreciate that. In my defense. In my defense. So you're going to defend yourself. Well, who else is going on the show? No one else. Exactly. Yeah. So in my defense, I was really nervous. I was going to miss it. And I thought our time zone changed. And it didn't in San Juan. Or it did. I don't I was backwards. I messed it up. You were hungover. No, I just got there.

Calling a spade of spade. Oh, you just got there. You still had your sea legs on. Yeah. No, I just got off the flight. But yeah. That's fair. You hadn't even got to the sea leg.

No, I haven't even got to the sea like. But it was great. Well, it looked fun. It did look fun. Oh, yeah. No, we had eight stops in the Caribbean. Hey, we got everything else under control. You're good.

Focus in. I'm locked in on doing whatever you guys tell me to do. I'm going to hold you to that then. How was your off season, Kevin? What'd you do? Well, I worked. You know, I've figured out that retired race car driver life is work. Is it? And it's fun. I like to work. I enjoy working. I enjoy the things that I get to do. I love the fact that we're starting year two and now I'm settled into what I'm supposed to be doing, not worried about what it might be, where I'm supposed to go, when I'm going to be in the booth, what I'm going to talk about.

I'm going to talk about racing. That's right. Yeah, it's pretty simple. My job's not that hard. because I've done this my whole life. Things change a little bit. But the story tells itself. So hopefully we can follow along and tell a good story. What have you been doing?

I really didn't do anything. This is quite simple. I just hung out with my kids. That's pretty much what it is. I didn't go anywhere. When you have kids, you get consumed by your kids. Yeah. First time I didn't go on a trip really or do anything, just kind of hung out.

Simple. Yeah, okay. That's nothing wrong with that. Your social life. I live vicariously through his, as I know you do as well. Yeah, well, you know, someone was like, oh, you're going on vacation, must be nice. I'm like, listen, man, I have no kids and no wife. You chose that.

You definitely would have never made it as a top NASCAR driver. Why? Because your vacation time is messed up. Wait, where would you rank Tim Richmond? Well, look. You have to know, you have to know, you have to know that when you go and you're in NASCAR driver, that you have to go from January until the beginning of the season, you have to work.

January until the beginning of the season. The first of January to the beginning of the season. That's when the driver works. Yeah, but I'm not the driver. You're the driver. Yeah, but you're the media. Yeah, but I'm your media. We're going to have to go in December.

Yeah. Well, we need a justice game. He's going on another vacation, by the way. He leaves Monday. Right? You're going on another vacation? I mean. That's why we got Bobby P. on the show.

Yeah, I mean, I got to pop over to Mexico real quick. Make sure that they're ready for us. you know, in the middle of the year to be over there. Well, the good news is when we put Bob in that chair, it's going to get smarter. I literally know. I was like, here it comes. You're right. It is going to get smarter, but it won't get better looking. It's debatable. No, it's not.

Okay. Well, I mentioned my kids, how's Keelan? I know he's doing good. He's doing good. He's doing good. He did, yeah. We decided that we're just going to send him off into Never, Never Land and have him race the car next year.

And that's just kind of how we've done that with Keelan through. the years. And when you feel like he's ready to tackle something else and let him go through the beginning phases of the suffering of getting your tail kicked, and that's part of the learning process, right, to be able to go out there and learn something new. So he's primarily going to race the late model stock and the pro late model this year. And we're going to get to race against each other a few times. So I can't wait to talk about where we're going to start that as we get into this show a little bit down the road here. Yes. It's going to be a few times. So that I have a feeling that I'll get competitive. There's already a lot of, there's already a lot of shit talking going on in the house.

Is there? Oh yeah. He's hard. Like to you? He's cocky. No, he's like that. Oh, yeah. That's funny. And he knows because he's good. So he knows that he's good and that, you know, and now dad's got to. I've had to explain to him, Keelan, this is not a go-kart. This is not a legend car. If you wreck my ass in this car, it's expensive. And I'm paying for it. So you You better make sure that if you wreck me, it better be for something really, really good. And not for fifth place or something, something middle of the right. I got to give Piper a little shout out. So the bracelet that she made me last year that I always wear was getting loose.

And when I was in the islands, they re-tied it. Tied it. They got a new string. Yeah, I got new strings. So now it's locked in for the new year, Piper. Oh, good. New string. Yeah.

That's good. I'm glad to hear that. It's secure. It's secure. We're locked in. Excellent. Speaking of not secure, let's talk about some of these interesting storylines. Kevin, I want to start with teams win the preliminary injunction in the lawsuit against NASCAR and in the name of expedience and convenience.

NASCAR agreed to allow the 2311 charter acquisition from SHR proceed pending the appeal, which that appeal we know now is going to be heard in May. Yeah. So what do you make of all of this, the things that have transpired with this lawsuit? Well, when I first started watching the whole thing take place, I'm like, man, NASCAR is kicking butt. This is not going to be very very. very good for the teams. And then the judge switched. And all of the sudden, everything swung, you know, towards the, towards the teams and front row and 2311 and their side of the lawsuit. So I'm happy that the charters and the sale for SHR went through. I'm happy that they're able to get the charters theoretically in the right teams and get them situated to be able to start the season. It would have been so confusing to start the season with,

those cars without charters and they would probably have one car with charters if they got the SHR thing to it would have been just a mess. I still, you know, I don't like that we're talking about a lawsuit, but we have to cover the news and it's part of the sport. I think as you look at it from a team standpoint, I think now it's just, it's just there. And it's part of what's happening with the preseason and the season. I don't think it's going to be over with anytime soon. you're talking May, you know, for the next piece of it. But I think the drivers and the teams should be somewhat used to it now. So it'll be interesting to see how it progresses from here.

But I'm glad we don't have to start the year with a bunch of... Well, this guy's in. This guy's not. Well, his teammates in. So it could have been just a confusing mess. Yeah, that would have... That's not how you want to start out, right? No, Daytona 500.

We got the class. We want to talk about race cars and going fast and having fun. I do think that, you know, as we get into the year, as Kevin pointed out, like, I think the guys know what's going on. Every once in a while, there'll be a question. Like, the media is going to ask these guys questions when pieces come out. That's the problem. That'll be annoying. Yeah.

But other than that, I think everyone's like, yeah, we're here to go racing. The conversation that's being had about the lawsuit is up here with execs and people at NASCAR and everybody like that. So I think the competitive side of it is going to take over pretty quickly here. and we're just going to move on. But you can't hide from it. No, you can't hide from it. It's still there, right? Like, you want to have these great interactions with Michael and the things that he does.

And you know that the press is going to, they're going to push. And, you know, if he's in something and they have an opportunity, they're going to ask. And that just makes him guarded, I would assume. And, you know, I hope that, well, I mean, there's just no way to hide from it. I mean, the drivers can't hide from it. And they're just going to be annoyed by that question that gets asked. And it has to be asked. I'm interested to see how Denny, because Denny's obviously been like the most vocal and the leader of the situation.

So I'm interested to see how he handles it at the beginning of the year and throughout the year. Because every time he says something, that's when a lot of the questions start coming up to everybody else. Because they're like, oh, well, Denny said this. So what do you feel about this? So I'm interested to see how that works for him. Yeah, and I think for Denny personally, and this is going to screw her all up. Oh, dear. With the flow of the show.

Oh, no, ready. Yeah, let's do it. Love this for me. I think for Denny now it becomes much more difficult to handle, in my opinion, because of the fact that he has a new crew chief on the cup side. And I think when you have to, from my standpoint with the things that I dealt with, when you have a new crew chief, it requires more effort from the driver's side of things to get that relationship started.

Now, I know his crew chief has been in the building for a long time, and they've obviously crossed paths and things like that. but I don't get the feeling that this was, this obviously wasn't Denny's choice. And so he, he is going to have a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. And I think internally there's, there's also that chip on, you know, some people's shoulders internally at Joe Gibbs Racing to make sure that they prove it right. I think that that, but that effort that it takes from Denny in the beginning of the year to get that going is going to be interesting. Because that was one of the things with Rodney that I love the most was the fact that,

I knew I would show up at the simulator on this day. I knew I would do this. And when there was a problem, he would call me. And we would talk through it and it would take, you know, two minutes. And now you've got to start that. I feel like that's the relationship he had with Gabehart. Yes. With Chris Gaphardt, his old crew chief.

And now you've got to start that process all over again. And to have that convenience is going to be tough with all the things he's trying to balance. So Kevin, of course, referencing the fact that Joe Gibbs Racing announced in the off season, Chris Gavehart is former crew chief who had 22 wins with him will now be assuming the competition director role at JGR. Chris Gale, as Kevin referenced, no stranger, of course, to JGR, Toyota, their whole program will now

be his new crew chief. So we're going to break down some of the driver crew chief pairings, but since we're already on this one, your thoughts too of just it seemed Denny was very taken by surprise with this decision that was made. Yeah, I mean, it was pretty open about how he didn't like it, didn't know about it, which is a very interesting.

The whole thing is. Can you imagine like you're a quarterback and then you just find out that you're a head coach? which is like just leaving and no, I had no idea. Like, it's a very interesting thing. Yeah. But I, for the company, I think it's going to be great because it's, Gabe Hart is one of the best crew chiefs and best minds in the garage.

So I think for the total of the company, it'll rise, rise everybody up. But for the 11, it might be specifically a little bit of a change because now, you know, his new crew chief, Chris needs to figure out how to handle a deal with Denny and how to prod him in the right way to get the best out of him. And Denny's going to push back a little bit. because you've got to find that relationship. Yeah, but look, Denny's a pro. Yeah, right? He's experienced, he's been through this before.

I think that, you know, that sudden change, you know, I don't know, it was messy when the playoff started last year. You had the lawsuit happen. The lawsuit's continuing to happen. You had the engine. You had all these things happen, ran in the back at Atlanta. And, you know, I don't know that that was necessarily, you know, a great choice instead of just going for it.

So, you know, I think there were a, number of things that that seemed to transpire that just led to, hey, everything. There had to be something internal that was going on as well at JGR for there'd be a position open for Chris Gabhart to go in there and, you know, take a new role and move a new crew chief into the 11, move a new crew chief into the 54, you know, you got a new driver in the 19. So, I mean, there's a lot of change at Joe Gibbs racing. They won a lot of races in the first half of the year. They didn't win a race in the second.

half of the year. So, you know, I think it's, it's very interesting to see how this dynamic will go, especially on the 11, because of the fact, I don't, I think if it doesn't start well, it's going to be, it's going to be a rocky ride. So big leadership changing, obviously, there at Joe Gibbs Racing and it'll be interesting to see Gabe Hart in that new role. As you mentioned, I'm sure he'll be very impactful, though, for the team overall. Yeah. So we also mentioned 2311 racing. They're expanding to three teams. Riley Herps joined in the group there at 2311. What do you make of that move? Well, I think bringing Riley into 2311 is obviously the next step in his career, and he'll be one of the rookie of the year contenders with SVG, quite the difference in, you know,

background. Everything. Everything. But it'll be intriguing to watch that rookie to year battle as they go through. I think when you look at what it takes to get used to the Cup series in general, and let alone the Cup Series car, this Gen 7 car, it's different, right? Like, it's going to be a steep learning curve for Riley to get used to the car and the way that everything works. I think he's got a lot of experience around him. I think having Denny Hamlin and having Tyler Reddick and Bubble Wallace, those guys have all been in the Cup series for a while.

They've driven this car every year that it's been on the racetrack. And to have that experience is great for Riley. And I think adding that third car to that team. is the next step for their progression to grow the organization. So it'll be interesting to see that progression. I think he's got 175 starts or so in the Bush series or the Xfinity series. So, you know, he started to win races and it was time to move on. It's just like we talked with Keelan earlier, right? When you get to that point and there's another step, at some point you just have to jump in and hope it works out for you and start learning. And, you know, I think that

that he's going to start learning. And it will change the dynamic of the flow of that team. Right. You know, Bubba's got a new crew chief and they got the lawsuit and they got everything going on. So they got a lot of things changing over theirs that have changed over theirs as well at 2311. Riley Herb's a three-time winner in the Xfinity series. But I feel like he's really going to fit in well with that whole brand. Just like his persona, who he is, it seems like it will be a good fit with him in 2311.

I think one of the best things for Riley is he's going to be able to show his personality more than who he is. A lot of people don't know who Riley is. And Riley's like a really nice kid. He's a fun guy to have around. Great family. Yeah, they have a great family altogether, you know. And they, he's going to be good. He's going to be a good spot.

I mean, he's made a few cups starts, not a ton, obviously. But where he has made his starts, he's done well. He's done everything he was supposed to do in his starts. So I think there will be a, it'll be a good challenge for him. And we'll see where it kind of shakes out halfway through the year. So one of the other announcements that took place is with now, NASCAR centering their marketing around drivers for the 2025 season. So this is an incentive program that will be paying the drivers anywhere from tens of thousands

up to a million dollars for their efforts to promote the sport each season. This is very interesting. We were kind of talking about it before the show began. What do you make of this change within the sport and how the drivers will now be kind of promoting it? Well, the drivers need to be in front of the fans more, right? Okay. I think the one thing that we all talk about as this program was being put together over the last couple years is how do we build the driver's brands? How do we make them rock stars?

Well, the first thing we've got to do is figure out how to get them in front of the people that they need to be in front of them to make them rock stars. Because what's happened in our sport is, you know, since 2009, really, the financial crisis and everything that we went through, the way that businesses do business. is different. It used to be when I started, you showed up and we'd have a, each sponsor would, you know, have some sort of media gimmick that they would do in New York City or Texas or wherever it was. And they promoted you by bringing people to hospitality. They would have thousands of people at some of the sponsors at hospitality or hundreds. And then you'd have sweets and they'd have commercials and they'd have all these things. So the sponsors really promoted the sport as I was coming through the sport to be able to grow it and make you have a brand because you were exposed to

so many things and different news outlets and media outlets across the country. So, you know, I think what this driver incentive program does is it allows the drivers to get creative with their own brand. And nobody likes you more than you, right? I would hope not. Yeah. Nobody cares about you more than you. And, you know, I think as some of these guys have gone through the years, their brand's just not as recognizable as it needs to be, and we've got to grow their brands. And I think the incentive program is really meant to grow the sport and to be able to let these drivers grow their brands and get creative with social media and all the different things that goes along. PGA has a very similar system that they use from a PR standpoint. So it's not it's not outside

the box of what other sports are doing, some other sports are doing. And I think when you look at the, you know, the number that is attached to to this. particular program, it's peanuts compared to the TV deal and the teams and the tracks and NASCAR and what they're getting. So nobody's there to see the team owner drive their car or walk around their car. They're there to see the drivers drive the cars. It's a driver-driven sport and the drivers deserve what they're getting. And I hope that this program works out and the guys that are driving the cars go out and try to earn their keep to win the program because they can win hundreds of thousands and maybe millions of dollars to be the guy that promotes a sport

the best and themselves. So interesting incentive. And I do find it a little frustrating that it feels like some of our drivers don't actually put the effort into some of these things. I'm hoping this will change that. I mean, I think that's what we're going to be hateful. But it's pretty obvious. No, I think that's the whole goal is to get guys to put themselves out there more and to build their brand. Dangle that carrot in front of a little bit of a little bit of a carrot because everybody likes money. Bellies. Yeah. Who doesn't like money? This is what's going to have. This is what going to happen is you're going to go out and you're going to start promoting your brand and you and yourself and you're going to, you know, hockey games, basketball games, different concerts, coming out

and stage with guys doing all that. As you're doing that, other brands are going to see that and they're going to want to be a part of what you're doing. So you're going to make money on this incentive program, but you're also going to make money outside of it. That's the goal. No one wants this, no one, this isn't here to take away from anybody. This is here to promote everybody. And I like that there's kind of like a seating to it. That's where, the money. So a little bit of competitiveness. And so someone, you know, someone that may be not performing as well on track has an opportunity to still find some bonus money. Yeah. And I think that, you know, as you look at the driver's brands, like we need them to be bigger stars. And I think a lot of

the drivers get frustrated with the fact that they go to some of these appearances and don't feel like they're getting the exposure that they should for the work that they're putting in and the time that they're putting in. So now it gives them a little bit of leeway, you know, to create some stuff and put the time into going somewhere, doing something that they either enjoy, they feel as impactful. Anytime you can do an appearance and go places and do things, whether it's a PR event, you know, race or whatever it is, if you're enjoying it, it comes across a lot better. And it's just like I used to, you know, tell the people at NASCAR are internally on our teams, there's two different people. There's myself away from

the racetrack and there's myself in competition. You won't like the competition mode guy. He's not near as personal as the guy is that is away from the racetrack. So those interactions away from the racetrack are much more intimate, much more, much happier than you're going to find at the racetrack for a lot of the guys that are competitive. And I think that even if you're not competitive, you're still thinking about what's going on. I'm not thinking about what I should say to you next. I'm thinking about how I'm going to go out and do the best that I can in this race today. So you're balancing those thoughts in your head to be able to have this interaction with somebody. And you can still make it good at the racetrack, but very seldom is it going to be as good as it's going to be outside of that competitive environment. I feel like you always did a great job in your career of putting effort and time into these things, the appearances and all that stuff.

I know it's work, obviously, but you seem to genuinely not mind doing it. You work with a lot of young drivers now. Have you kind of tried to coach them on the importance of doing some of these things? Well, there's more to it than just what it says in your contract. You know, there's this, if you can connect the dots and build a network of people and maintain those relationships and go to dinner and shake a hand and go places that you're not supposed to go, and just by doing normal things and having a good time with the people that are supporting you, It's not hard, but it does take time. And it's been so easy over the years that we've progressed through to be able to just say,

I'm not going to do that. And nobody says anything. Right. Right. There's no consequence to it. Right. So now the consequence is, while I made X amount of money, well, you put this much time in compared to this guy and he got this much exposure compared to you. So now you look lazy.

So the lazy guys are going to stick out pretty good. Real quick. Yeah. Real quick. You know, I don't, I don't, I think all the guys. are competitive. And, you know, having this little bit of leeway to be creative is something I think that the drivers should feel like they have more control of the exposure and where they're at to get it. Yeah, I also, I hope what this also creates is some more of those old NASCAR commercials and

content that we used to see back in the earlier 2000s with like, you'd see drivers all over the place in different brands. I think that was really fun. And I think that's good because now you look at Instagram and every time one of those old videos come up, everyone's like loving it. So I hope that we see some more of that because people are now engaging. Hope's a bad strategy. Okay, I want it to. Make it happen. What do you want?

Hope is a terrible strategy. What do you want me to say? Listen, listen, the world is different. The world is different today. And the way that we promote and the things that we do, those old videos are great and the old races are great. But it's just not the same. No, but we just need people out.

Like, I want to see them. No, I get it. We need the content. I get that you need to see. see people out. But hoping that we go back to this is not going to happen. We need our guys out and about doing things that are in line with today's platforms and things that are effective. Right? Like we're definitely not going back in time. No, no, but we need to see them. Replicate some of the things that they do see. Just like in content. They're not in any content.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like they're not in Ford commercials like they should be. Yeah. And, you know, so we need, we need, you know, we need interaction with the guys better, you know, in places that they normally aren't. Wouldn't be right. And outside of the racetrack and being normal humans, but also at big events, right? Yes. We need somebody. At the Super Bowl. Yeah.

At the Super Bowl. Pretty easy. That's right. Yeah. Well, James and whatnot. It'll be interesting to see what this new incentive does and where we might see drivers appearing throughout the course of the season. season. So we referenced some of the crew chief changes already with Denny Hamlin. There are quite a few that have taken place. I want to stay in the Joe Gibbs racing family while

we're there. Tyler Allen named crew chief for Ty Gibbs. And he, of course, is very familiar with the organization, was with the 20th 20 series team, eight of the teams nine wins. He was a part of as the crew chief. So race engineer for Adam Stevens, obviously very qualified for this job. But I imagine as a crew chief working for Ty Gibbs, the grandson, that's a, tall task, you know? I mean, that's no joke, the pressure that can come with that particular role. Well, I think the pressure on all these teams is different. Right. Inside of the organization. And, you know, I think when you really step back and analyze it, like even look at the 2311 piece, they have that alliance with 2311. So now there's an extra car over there.

There's an extra engine over there. There's, so there's more resources over there. People, maybe. You've got a new crew chief on the 54. who is the owner's grandson. You've got a crew chief on the 11. You've got a new driver in the 19. So I think that there's a lot of nuances that we don't really know what is going to happen and how it's all going to work

and who it's going to work for or not work for. But really where we're going to see all this take effect is about week 10. I feel like always in a new situation, you can get through the first six weeks until you start having problems. And you have to start diagnosing what's going on where. And I think that's really we're going to see who has made improvements

on what they're doing. So, you know, we put a lot of talk into Ty Gibbs last year. He didn't win. I think in order for his to work, he's got to win. I know that seems like a lot of pressure with a new crew chief, but it is what it is. Yeah. I mean, at some point, you've got to get into victory lane and just get the monkey off of your back. I think Chase Briscoe's in that same boat. I'm a James small fan because of the fact that he's just like he's got that fire. And I think he's been held back a little bit by the enthusiasm and things that Martin had towards the work that it takes to go into this particular car is different than what it took in the old car. And I think that, you know, I think Chase Briscoe's in a position where he needs to, he needs to go out and like a ball of fire and make something happen from the driver's standpoint. So, Denny, we've already kind of covered that one.

But internally, I think they've made their organization stronger. But now you're going to have to make it function at the racetrack with the driver and the crew chief. And, you know, 8, 10 weeks into the season is really when you're going to see that take effect. But I believe they all have a lot of pressure on them. The expectation is to win at Gibbs. And in order to do that, they're going to have to do it quick. And none of them did it in the second half of the year. So now you've got all these changes.

But you will have a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of time, effort, because nobody there wants it to fail. So they could come out on fire. Yeah, it's going to be a lot, I think, for them. They got to come out strong. Building year. Yeah, it's a building year. The honeymoon phase of the newness was going to wear off pretty quickly

because you can't let it. Oh, yeah, we're going to get better and ease into it. No, no. We have some goals. going to be very motivated. Every person in a new position is going to be very motivated. Yep, that team will be the most interesting probably to watch as the season progresses. You reference Martin Shurex. I just want to take a moment to say we're thinking about him after the loss of his father, Martin Sr. So one of the other crew chief pairings I found most interesting, I would say,

is with Brad Kosalski. Because Matt McCall obviously was with him for a number of years. Now, Jeremy Bolins has been named the new crew chief for him. He obviously has been in the Cup series a long time, work with Wood Brothers, Ryan Blaney, Brad, Austin, Cendrick Harrison Burton. So what do you think of the Bollens-Kislauski pairing? Yeah, you know, I think Brad obviously has a pretty good pulse on his organization and the things that are happening internally. And I think that we've seen the power of Brad Kozlowski and the things that he can do with your race team just by his knowledge of what's going on with the car, how it's driving the people and the places and the improvements that they've made at RFK throughout the years. but I think it's, you know, it finally got to a point, all right, we've got to win more consistently and how do we do that? The expectation isn't to win one race a year with Brad. The expectation

is to race for a championship, and obviously he felt like they weren't at that point. You know, I think that when you look at Jeremy and the things that he and Brad have, you know, experienced together, Brad obviously felt like it was time for a change and felt like, you know, sometimes those relationships are with each other is more important than, you know, having the smartest guy. Yeah. And I look at this as, I'm not saying that Jeremy's not a smart guy. He's a super smart guy. He's my engineer on the 29 car, way back when on the Goodman's car with Gil Martin. So Jeremy's a super, super smart guy. But the relationship is, I mean, that's the key to the whole puzzle. And, you know, I think then you build the team around that. So Jeremy's got experience, Brad and Jeremy obviously agree on

what they're doing and, you know, they got to win more. Yeah. In the end, you know, the expectation is, like I said, for, for him to race for a championship. Well, because it's not super surprising because you were seeing Chris Busher winning multiple races and Brad wasn't. So this probably is the move they felt was necessary at this point. And for Jeremy, right, he's been kind of bounced around within Team Penske a little bit over the last year. He's won with all the drivers that he got bounced around two. So that gives you a lot of confidence that he can create a culture with a team very quickly that is a winning type of culture. But so for him, I look at him like, well, you probably was ready for a change.

Like he, like maybe something a little bit more veteran, right? He's been with a lot of the young guys that are trying to make their way up. And now he gets to get back with Brad, someone who he knows exactly how he thinks, how he likes his car, everyone wants to drive and all those things. So to Kevin's point, like that relationship, crew chief to driver, if you're really good pairing, Sometimes that fixes a lot of the other things that couldn't be fixed just because maybe someone is a little bit more technical or whatever in different areas. A lot of times, you know, this stuff works out, but sometimes it doesn't. We changed the crew chief from one year at the 29 car.

We went from Gilmartin to Shane Wilson. And we knew within like six weeks that that wasn't going to be an improvement. It actually switched it back. So you never know how these things are, you have to be willing to make a change. and you're always looking for the personnel shift to be able to prod that enthusiasm in a direction that makes the team better. We got to Daytona one year with Hornaday's crew chief on the truck series, and I stood up on the trailer listening to him conduct practice and watched the race and went back Monday morning

and said, you're down the road, you know, Monday after Daytona. To me, there's a lot of times that you can tell pretty quickly whether this is going to work or not. And, you know, it's not just Jeremy and Brad, but also with these other guys. And you can, once we get through the honeymoon phase of two or three weeks, you can start listening to the radio and start to tell if it's going to work or not, right? Like, you know, you're going to be able to tell, like, let's just use the 54 car, for instance. If, if Ty is frustrated on the radio and all of a sudden he goes from honeymoon phase to, you know, calling him out, like in the situation that he has been in, it's going to be a rough ride. So it can go either way with all of these situations. The industry joke is it's kind of like a marriage, you know, driver, crew chief pairing. So did you know right away with Rodney? You're like, oh, yeah, this is going to be, this is, we're not divorcing. Yeah.

You know, I think that a lot of times it depends on the organization and the effort. And it also depends on, but I could feel right away the personal relationship that Rodney and I had was different than what I had before. but I think a lot of that comes. We were similar in age. We both had kids. We both had the same background growing up. And so it's different clicks for different people, right? Like, I don't know what makes Brad tick.

I don't know what makes Jeremy tick. I don't know what makes Ty Gibbs tick. You know, you've got to learn how all these people tick. And the oddest pair that we ever had was Ron Hornarday and Rick Wren. I'm like, oh, my God. How in the world are these two? I told Rick Corelli, who was the general manager, There is no freaking way that this will ever work.

He's like, you've got to trust me. We just got to see what happens. And those two went to win championships and races. And so you just, you never know. And a lot of people didn't think Rodney and I would work because he was so mild-mannered. Yeah. And I was so high-strung. But, you know, you found that middle road of, hey, he's doing a great job.

I'm doing a great job. Whatever that balance is in order to, that's his lane. This is your lane. And finding that balance is good. But you don't have a lot of time and there's nowhere to hide. No, where to hide. No, not here. Everything happens really fast.

Really fast. Whoever is going to have the most buy-in from their driver first is going to have the most success the quickest. Yeah. And that's really what you. You look back and Kyle Bush is a great example. When he went to RCR, they had just that bang-up start to his first six months that were at RCR. hadn't really had that dominance since that particular time at RCR. Now, they've had some phases, and they've been in position to win some races.

But that's a great example of the honeymoon phase and the success that you can have while everybody's ultra-focused. But who is going to be those pairings that are ultra-focused for more than two or three weeks? For the long-term. Yeah. It's going to be ultra-focused for 38 weeks. That's a hard. It's what makes a difference between champions. You've got to be able to get through the hard times.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to be able to get through the wheel falling off, and you've got to be able to get through the motor blowing up, and you've got to be able to get through the driver crashing the car, qualifying in the back. All the easy moments are the moments that you're running good and you're up in the front. The tough moments are when something goes wrong.

Okay, how can I rebound from there and make this good? And as a team, and that's when you really start to develop that grit as a team, when you can overcome the things that go wrong. and have a successful day or a win out of it. Many new driver crew chief parings to keep an eye on as the season goes along. And many new rules have come out as well since last time we had to show. We hate rules.

How about this one, guys? I've had to use a big sheet of paper. I'm going to be honest. Our rule notes here is two pages of long. It's extensive. Well, I'm going to start with this one because it's already stirred up quite a bit of chatter. The open exemption provisional, which will guarantee a starting position for world-class drivers who enter a NASCAR Cup Series race.

Okay. Does this limit the intrigue cheap in the sport? What do we think of this? So what I'm taking is our retired world-class NASCAR champions are not world-class. So not eligible for the provisional? Yes, that's one caveat. Nobody wants to see Martin Truex,

like maybe in the All-Star race. I think you could go back to the situation like we had last year when Kyle Larson was at the N-500 and I was driving the car. The team would have preferred to just, let me drive the car. Let me race and be done with it, but you're not eligible because you hadn't been in the car.

I don't like the fact that we, let's be honest. And we have this happen with our show with different guests and things that they have on. The most popular guests on our shows, race. Or they're involved in racing. And I think the most popular thing that people want to see, imagine if instead of Dale Jr. racing his car, his Xfinity car at Bristol, if he was at North Wilkesboro in the All-Star race

in a junior motorsports cup car like they're going to run at Daytona. You don't think anybody would want to see that? Or take Tony Stewart, who's still racing actively. I'll be in a different series, but still racing actively. If we go to a road course set, he's like, that looks pretty cool. Yeah, I'd like to do that. I would want Tony Stewart to be in that race if he wants to be there. Yeah, that's the thing I don't like about this rule.

You know, I think it caught a lot of people off guard. I love the intent and I love the fact that, you know, it's going to attract people from, you know, other forms of racing. But I don't like the fact that it left out our own. It's like, you know, we've gone back and we've figured all these things out with all the guys that kind of had a bad taste in their mouth of how they've been treated for the last several years.

And now NASCAR and everybody's doing a great job of taking care of our past drivers and, you know, taking them around the racetrack and giving them hard cards and, you know, exposing them to the world. but I can promise you that people are going to show up if a Tony Stewart or a Dale Jr. or, you know, myself or who, Martin Truex. Kenzie, whoever. Right. Yeah.

You know, it would have opened the door to take care of your past. Your own. The drivers as well that everybody would actually show up for. I just don't know. I get that we're trying to expose it to the world. But, you know, sometimes I feel like the flaw in some of the things that we do. we forget about our own. Real quick,

something like the rule like this, the people that are deciding it, is it, because you know, is it coming from, do you think it's coming from one group or is it like drivers, NASCAR ownership?

You know what I mean? Who determines? Who's all when they're creating this? Like, who do you think is all putting this? I don't even know. Okay. You know, I think this,

the way that this one was written definitely caught me off guard. And so, you know, I think that, you know, obviously Helio is is going to take advantage of it. I think he'll be a great addition to the, to the, to the, to the Daytona 500. And great for us at Fox to be able to have, you know, an IndyCar guy in the, in the Daytona 500. So, you know, being the, you know, the IndyCar is on Fox this year is, you know, it's great to have Helio in the race and be able to mix that up. But, and,

and I want those guys to come race. I really do. But man, don't forget about your own, your own people. Yep. So the criteria for approval will be on. on a case-by-case basis with prior racing resume is significant contributor. Race teams must request the provisional 90 days prior to an event. So, again, we don't really know who this is being submitted to. Are you worldwide yet? I mean, I'm like Worldwide Jr., but I'm not.

I mean, maybe if we made you popular in some foreign country, you might be eligible. He's going to Mexico. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I have some trips on my mind. Yeah. You know, Europe.

So who would you want to see? Who would I want to see? Yeah. I mean, realistically. That's, that's retired or just in general? Just in general. Like, that would be realistic. I really, really would like to see Lewis Ham.

I knew he was going to say that. I really, I really want that one. I just really, I think, I think that'd be so cool. I do, would love to see Max for the, for just the, to see that because he's in his prime. Max for Saffin, obviously he's probably, that's probably not going to happen. But to see that him against Larson and that whole conversation going off. And then like a, like a, like a Scotty Mac. Yeah.

I love Scotty Mac in any car. I would love to see like the Max for Stappin type situation at the Daytona 500 of sorts with a Red Bull activation behind it. Of course. Because really when you look at the whole thing, whatever that sponsor is, it is as important as anything else because of you want them to be behind the activation and promotion of what happens as well. So I don't even know who Helio sponsor is. Do you? No.

I'm not sure. You would if it was Max. You would. So the 90 day thing in my mind. just looking at it without any conversation with everyone, it allows you to promote the 90 days of this megastar coming versus two weeks for dropping this guy in. You know what I mean?

I feel like that. I'm not sure how long the process takes for approval, but I guess we'll see how some of this plays out. You need 90 days. 90 days. All right, guys, what about this? The damaged vehicle policy. Vehicles placed on DVP may drive to the garage

or be towed to the garage and will not be out of the race. Seven-minute clocks still remains active on pit road. no clock for repairs baited in the garage. Well, NASCAR is never going to get the opinion that they're doing the right thing for the teams from the teams or the fans, right? So I'm glad that, you know, it's kind of like big government, right?

I'm glad that they took themselves out of what's happening because now they can tow that car to the garage with flat tires. They can tow the car to the garage with a wreck and they can say, good luck teams. I hope you make it back out on a racetrack. Let the team make the decision and I'm glad NASCAR doesn't have to be in the middle

of it anymore because they weren't going to win. Yes. They were not going to win the argument, whether it was right or wrong. Somebody was getting favoritism, and this is just a, you know, we saw this coming to play, you know, several times last year. You know, there's just, you know, the teams know what they can fix and what they can't fix and, you know, being able to get the car back out on a racetrack is, is better than NASCAR deciding, what's wrong.

Yeah. And I think ultimately that you want to have your own destiny in your hands. Right. Right. Oh, we can't fix it. Okay. You telling me I can't fix it, well, I haven't even looked at it yet. Yeah, because it comes down to one point, and it might be the guy that you're racing

against in the championship that is the guy that you need to beat out of the garage. Right. Yeah. Yeah. As close as these point championships are coming down to in these rounds and different things, one position, two positions could be the difference in making it or not making it. Are you telling me that every race in every spot and every race matters? Is that what you're saying?

I mean, unless you're talking to Boyer. Oh, okay. I mean, for the most part, it does. But every spot in every race matters. Even in the qualifying race, he'll argue with you even today that at Daytona, it's different. Well, no, it's not, claim. It is not. Well, you kind of nicely led me to the next thing in terms of everything matters.

How about this? The playoff waiver is changing. If a playoff waiver is granted for missing a race, the driver will now be forfeiting all current and future playoff points. Well, there's an exception there, too, or no? And we'll start the exceptions to the forfeit of playoff points include medical reason. Right. Birth of a child, family emergency, etc. Yeah.

So there's that. Yes. So they left the part in there that the waiver was meant for. And they basically said, hey, Kyle Arson. Yeah, this is the Kyle Arson. Don't miss my race anymore. If you miss my race, now you're going to be punished because now I have a rule in the rule book that will deter you from staying in Indy. We're going to call it a Larson rule.

The Larson rule. I was just thinking that. It's like Jordan Rules is a Larson. But this is the Larson rule. That's a big change, though. It is a big change. And I think as, look, I'm of, you know, the win is the waiver. I'm still in that category.

I just, I don't like rules to just have rules. I think that, you know, I think NASCAR has to protect his turf. I think it's, you know, I love the double. I love what they did last year with Larson. I hate that it worked out the way that it did. We got a ton of exposure for the racing world, the NASCAR world, everything that went into that. They're going to do it again.

You know, look, I just, what difference does it make? If you run 35 races or 36, and I know that from a racetrack standpoint or a promoting standpoint, they want you at the racetrack, they want to guarantee you at the racetrack. But, I mean, the guy still went on. It still was a detriment to him all the way to the end. It was. All the way to the end, Charlotte. The regular season championship.

It penalized him himself. He didn't win the regular season. championship. It kept him out of the, out of the, out of the end of the year. And, and, and basically, it, it penalized Larson all the way through without having a rule. So, you know, I mean, sometimes I, you know, maybe we need a, we need that, that Doge committee to just go in here and start wiping stuff out. It's kind of like, look, it's kind of like, Sequin Barclay this year was about to get the rushing record in the single season. And they have 17 games now. He didn't play the 17th game. He also didn't get the record. So imagine if he did get the record, but he didn't play the 17th game. And they're like,

that record doesn't matter because you didn't play all 17 games. Yeah. Like, he still did what he did. It was to his, you know what I mean? So. Good analogy. Yeah, I think that the, I think when you're, when you're making these rules, fuck. I think there has to be some, you know, some conversation about, okay, if we make the rule, do we, do we have to have the rule? Right? Like, when you look at the, you know, toe in the car back to the garage. I think you need that rule. Yeah. I think you can make a pretty good argument for needing that rule.

I just don't know, I don't know necessarily other than we want you to guarantee you're going to be at all 36 races because, but your car is going to be there. I mean, your NASCAR, you're locking in the car owner. You're locking in that position. You know, if Kyle Larson wouldn't have been at Charlotte, I mean, would they have had more people if they'd have known Larson was showing up? He's still the, he's still a NASCAR guy. He's still our guy doing so. He's still promoting the sport at a high level. But it penalized him all the way to the end.

It penalized that team all the way to the end for him missing that race on its own. Yeah, by itself. It took care of it. Yeah. I mean, if he'd have been at Charlotte, he'd have been the regular season champ. And, you know, those points all the way to the end penalized him. So it's self-penalizing. And, you know, I don't know.

I just, I don't know if rules to have, if we don't need it and it's self-penalizing, maybe we should just try to go without it. I think stuff like this happens when a lot of people complain, like the wrong people, people are complaining and they don't really think. See the bigger picture? Yeah, yeah. They can't see the forest through the trees. Well, we do know that he will be attempting this once again.

So guess we'll get to see it right in action. He's going to need to get some Simtime in an Indy car in case he has to get up and go for him. Not going to happen. All right, guys. How about this? Performance obligation. The verbiage around the 100% rule is replaced if they focus on manipulating the outcome of an event, slash championship. Now, this was very blatant at a certain point last season.

Martinsville. Yes. So, I don't know. Well, this isn't a big surprise. I think it's great to have penalties to be able to enforce against the OEMs. They've, you know, they've put themselves in a position to where they've had a lot of control to be able to, you know, push the teams and directions, you know, that they might not otherwise push themselves in. And, you know, we hear a lot about it at the speedways and you want it to be as natural as possible. So being taking the penalties for this, you can tell them the penalties this or I can just do it. Go ahead. You know, the violations will result in loss of manufacture points, wind tunnel hours and CFD time,

which is a fluid dynamic system that's basically on the computer wind tunnel. Okay. You know, when you lose the time to develop your car and it's going to hurt all the teams. So, you know, I think after the Martinsville deal and everything that happened there, and they just need to back off. Yeah. They need to back off the teams. And, you know, you can meet all you want and have all the plans you want before the race.

But during the race, you just need to let them race. Yeah. Can you imagine, like, say maybe a third-tier Chevrolet team or a Toyota team, whatever? whatever team it is, like doing something that falls under this and then it affecting like a Hendrick. Yeah. Bad news. Like that's a tough. Worst case.

That's a tough pill to swallow. Do you think they're just going to get more creative on how they do things, less obvious, or this will actually? They're always going to get creative. You're always going to have to keep up with the teams. There's just, yeah, there's too many smart people involved in the whole thing to be able to to not keep up with with the teams and the progression and the communication and technology. It's going to evolve.

and, you know, evolve or die. Evolve or die. You either evolve or die. It's the new Harvichism for the year. Evolver or die. If you're in the grays, that's how you win. Pushing the envelope, that's how you win and be successful. That's right. It's how it is. Yep. Well, there you go. There's a lot of different things to keep an eye on.

I'm not sure if I'm keeping the time right now, but I think it's time for you to start talking because I have been for a while. But that's some of the bigger storylines that happen in the offseason, plenty to watch as the 2025 season. It's been busy. It has been very busy. a while to write up all those notes that you didn't even think me. The only thing that hasn't happened, the only thing that hasn't happened since the end of the season is the air conditioning being turned on in this room.

It's cold now. It's freezing cold. When we got in this thing, I'm going to tell you all what, America. It was so humid you could watch your foot track come all the way to the table. Anyway. Anyways. I need any sticker. Cheers, my friend.

Cheers. Yeah. It's not drinking alcohol for once. You need to borrow a cup. I got this one. I love the fact that. This is the first water. Don't cover my face.

Oh, don't cover your face? Oh. You're starting to peel off. I just wanted to make sure. I need water. Okay. My coffee's cold. Ladies and gentlemen,

welcome to the 2025 season of Mamba Sips. I'm so excited. And we got some things to tell you, okay? I get the boys over here looking at you. Yeah, yeah, boys, pay attention here, okay? Mike, Mike, this way. This way. Our heads agree.

Boyer's head doesn't even move. And Boyer's head is just... Boyer's doesn't do anything. Yeah. His head doesn't work. Yeah, accurate. Pause. This year, okay, right?

This year we're going to be answering questions from the fans from you guys. You know, I've put it a little bit. We all have a little bit on Twitter and we try to pull it in every once in a while, but we're doing specifically for you guys. So send your questions to Harvick Happy Hour 4 at gmail. I can't wait to answer some of these email questions. Look, it's going to be great. Whoever

the biggest asshole is in this whole thing we're just going to rip them right on the air. That, yeah, that and keep doing it on YouTube because we see a lot of those. Me and Kevin have been pretty active. Mostly nice ones. Yeah, well, yeah. We won't take too many of the bad ones

because then you guys will just try to be bad. Well, yeah. The mean tweets. Caitlin is very sensitive. We don't want her to cry or get emotional. We don't want anybody to be mean to Caitlin. So you can be mean to Mamba and myself, but not Caitlin. Yeah, fair, fair.

Yeah, leave Caitlin out of this. She doesn't have to do that. So that's going to be happening. And again, I know you guys loved the word of the week last year. We're bringing it back. So, oh, boy. Start thinking about what you want to hear Kevin have to say. I'm excited.

The funniest ones are the ones I screw up. I know. Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, I can screw them. I can word salad them pretty quick. Yeah. Word salad.

How are you going to? How are you going to select these words? These words? Our producers said the drivers are picking some also. That shouldn't be that hard. Surely they're vocabulares that most of them don't have a very big vocabulary. Yeah, so we got some help from the drivers. We got help from the fans.

And of course, this beautiful brain up here has a great. I'm sure you've been thinking for a while now. You've got to be getting smarter because your beard's getting grayer. It just shows wisdom, Kevin. Wisdom and nobleness. So we're doing that word of the week is going to be super fun. It is. This year. So bring it.

And we can't move on without pulling something that happened over the off season. We are a motorsport show. We are specifically a NASCAR, but Lewis Hamilton, Sir Lewis. Look at that. He is in a new school. He's at the school

of Ferrari. And he looked dapper. Yes, he did. It looks like a freaking king is what he looks like. A king. He's sitting next to. I think that's a Ferrari F40, which is one of my favorite ones that they've ever produced. And that just looks so... It looks pretty sharp. Yeah.

I mean, Ferrari and Lewis Hamilton together, I'm so glad that this happened because you can't go through your Formula One career and be that great and not drive a Ferrari at some point. There you go. That's true. It's going to be... So what I bet will happen is the amount of merch that is going off the shelves already. They'll never print enough merch with Lewis Hamilton's name on it for Ferrari. And they'll probably end up making some...

special Lewis Hamilton dedication car that will probably cost something ridiculous. I think his attire will look like in the first, his his outfit, his swag, his out trip, you know, for the races is always a story.

What do you think that looks like at race one? I hope he walks in with I hope he walks in with a cane and a Catalina on it. There's probably a whole team of people deciding on what this fits going to be. The guy is referring to himself. What? Yeah. I was a good look.

Tell them about your cane. I was talking about your cane. When I was in Tortola, a couple of my friends from the UK, Dan and Crystal, while we were on vacation, we were going through one of the shops and like, Mama, you got to buy this cane. You have to buy this cane because there's this one night that's called Scarlet Night on the crew. Scarlet Night. So everyone was red on the Virgin Cruz. Everyone was red. And so I busted out.

I was like, fine. How much is it? And he's like $15. I said, I have spent way more and way less. So I got this cane and it became, it was magic. Every time somebody else had it, it made them do something. So with your cane, did you develop this? Did you develop a limp?

No, I already had the limp. I have the limp from the 20. At a kimpy foot. So you have a natural limp and I can't get it out. Like, now it's my plug one. So did it help you? Did it help me? Yeah.

It helped me look better. I'll tell you that. Everyone was like, damn, boy, that cane looks good. Real quick, I had a shout out to my boy, Matt Duzenberry. who is the head of Ferrari Motorsports in the Americas. Duesenberry used to work for Brad Kizelowski. So he's a part of this whole Lewis Hamilton. With a name like Dusenberry, you better be good at what you do.

You better be. You better be. Yeah, it's a doozy. Doosy. There you go. Kevin had a funny. All right. It's been a fun show already.

It has. We have a great year ahead. It's so good to be back with the two of you. I do want to remind everyone to check out NASCAR's new documentary, The Madhouse. NASCAR's return to Boom and Grace. Stadium available now. So this documentary explores the rich storied past of the Winston-Salem, North Carolina venue, weaving a present-day narrative focused on the 2025 clash. So NASCAR's

first premier series race at the historic track in 54 years. It's going to be exciting. It is. And I look at all the renovations and things that have happened at Bowman Gray. I have to admit, when we went to the Coliseum the first time, I was like, this is the dumbest thing that we could possibly ever imagine doing. And it was fantastic. The track was racy. I think that Bowman Gray is going to be interesting. I don't know what the weather will be like, but I don't think the people of Winston-Salem care. Nope.

I think they are going to show up at the Madhouse. When you watch this documentary, you are going to learn that the Madhouse has its name for a reason. And you can watch that documentary tomorrow night, 7 p.m. Eastern on FS1. You don't want to miss it. So we've been talking about the clash. It's never too early to make a race prediction. So doing our first of the year, what do you say?

Chase Briscoe. And why? Because I think that the Joe Gibbs cars have run well at these short-travel. and I think that he, along with a lot of other guys, has something to prove. And I think James Small is right there with him. So he has been good. He was very good as his teammate at SHR at this style of racetrack. And I just think that it could be a magical moment for him.

A magical moment. First pick of the year is Chase Brisco. I'm going with our reigning champion. Did that catch you off guard? No. A little bit. Not crazy. Yeah, not crazy.

I'm going with the reigning champ because he's always really good at figuring out new venues, whether it's Bristol Dirt, L.A. Coliseum. So I think Joey Lugano could be the guy that figures this out rather quickly. Kick das at North Wilkesboro, an all-star race. Okay. Yeah. Your thoughts, sir. Those are good picks.

Give me the hometown boy, Burt Freaking Myers. Burt Myers is going to be in this race. Are you joking? No, I'm serious. I know he's in the race. No. That's your pick to win? Oh, but watch this.

Watch this. Okay. Why? Because because it's so. It's total silence. I know. Look, he's dumbfounded. We both are like, I'll make you a bet right now. I don't know what we're betting, but I bet he doesn't make the race.

I mean, listen, you're, you're picking him to win. You're a negative Nancy. You know what, fine. I'll take the bet because it's double or nothing because I still haven't got my steak. Let's do another one. What? Fine, I'll do another one. You can have two.

I'll pick two. I'll let you have two. Oh, okay. So pick a regular. But I do love the fact that Bert Myers and Tim Brown are in the race. I do. But I actually, I actually do think that they'll do better than people probably expect.

No way. I think so. Okay. Anyway. You get a secondary. I know, second day. Secondary. Safety.

Oh, we already know. Ryan Blaney. Oh, let me just. What's a good, what's a good set? What do you think? Ryan Blaney. Yeah, Ryan Blaney. Give me Ryan Blaney.

How was this wedding, by the way? Aspen was amazing. Yeah. Did you ski? No, I didn't. Do you know how to ski? Snowboard. Okay.

Oh. Do you like to snow? Yeah. I mean, I'm from Vermont. That's true. I don't like it for how long we have. it up there, which is like eight months. Yeah.

I guess you have to like this snow. You gotta like it. Or you have to know about the snow. You should have to see my kids. Snowed in Charlotte. Yeah. I mean, Kielan is, I mean, it's 8.30 at night, 9 o'clock at night. And they're just out there towing each other around.

We got a, we got maybe a half inch of snow on the ground. It's a big event around here. Big event. Well, it shuts down the city. It shuts down everything. Traffic is wonderful, though. Well, there is none. Right.

But you also can't drive on the road because they don't know what assault properly. It's icy. There is a lot of salt on the road. There's a lot, but it's still not done, right? There was a lot of salt on the road. Okay, so next episode, Mamba will be on vacation. And his chair gets smarter. Bob Pockris will be joining us for a season preview edition of Happy Hour.

We look forward to that. So we encourage all the closers to keep subscribing on YouTube. Wherever you get your podcast, leave a five-star rating and a review. All right, we're glad we're back, and we will see you next episode.