KFC Radio - Dave Portnoy Predicts The Future of Barstool Sports After The Full Penn Acquisition - Inside Barstool

Episode Date: February 20, 2023

- How the Penn Deal came to be - What Dave misses most about early days of Barstool - Dave's Best piece of content - Old blogs / being suppressed - Regrets - If Dave left Barstool... - Team KFC vs Team Portnoy - Barstool changes after the Chernin deal - Jenna Marbles / Call Her Daddy Era - Do you feel like you've "made it" ? +++++++++++++++++++++++ Timecodes: 00:00:00 Start 00:02:55 How the Penn Deal came to be 00:21:44 What Dave misses most about early days of Barstool 00:27:59 Dave's Best content ever 00:30:04 Old blogs / being suppressed 00:38:23 Regrets 00:44:53 If Dave left Barstool... 00:48:09 Team KFC vs Team Portnoy 00:55:24 Barstool changes after the Chernin deal 01:05:45 Jenna Marbles / Call Her Daddy Era 01:14:58 Do you feel like you've "made it" ? +++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellofresh: Go to Https://barstool.link/HFKFC and use code KFC65 for 65% off + free shipping Kikoff: Start building better credit at https://barstool.link/KikoffBSS Betterhelp: This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Go to https://barstool.link/BHKFC for 10% off your first monthYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/kfcr

Hey, KFC Radio listeners, you can find every episode of KFC Radio on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. I said, speak up now if you're scared of me. Everyone's like, uh. That was, I think that was... I think I crawled under my desk. Get the f*** out of here. You got a f***ing problem? Say it.

Are you ready for the KFC? Are you ready for the KFC? What's up, Chicken Heads? KFC Radio Live is coming to a stage near you. April 26th, we're at the Houston Improv. April 27th, we're in Dallas, Texas at the Addison Improv. And on April 29th, we're in Austin at the Moon Tower Comedy. So that's going to be a great weekend in Texas.

In May, we're coming back to Boston, back to Wilbur where we belong on May 12th. You can get tickets to the Wilbur. And May 14th, just a couple days after that, we'll be in Stanford, Connecticut for all you Northeast chicken heads. Get your tickets now. Things are selling out fast. It's interesting timing, though, the reason we wanted to do this. And I feel like this is like 10 years in between appearances for you on the show. Was the Jay Cutler one?

Yeah. The only other one? I feel like it was like, yeah, like early on. No, it wasn't even Cutler. It was like. Oh, that was the early, though. That was KFC Radio, right? Yeah, yeah... Is that the only other one? I feel like it was, like, yeah, like, early on, right? No, it wasn't even Cutler. It was, like... Oh, that was the early, though. That was KFC Radio, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, we've done a ton of content together over the years, but I think the only official KFC Radio appearance you had was, like... I gotta be honest. I thought this was Inside Barstool. Well, the thing is, every Monday we do, like, a... Did you purchase this as an Inside Barstool to me? Yeah, but I meant... It's just, like, we...

Behind Barstool? We recently added a Monday episode where we always try to have somebody from Barstool on and kind of go in. And I figured no better timing than this with everything happening with Penn. But also as this happens, because I think it's rather like a crossroads kind of where Barstool is going and what people – where people are going, what they're doing. And when shit like that happens, it's like people are just still taking the shit for granted. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Well, Will Compton's new and just an idiot, I've come to believe. You just leave before the bill comes. Well, no. That was poor manners, and that was a bad decision. But he did leave a $20 tip. Wait. Hold on, Dave. Was I the only one that left?

Caleb and Will Compton and Hank left before me. Wow. It's a fair assessment. Will's a moron. Maybe a little bit of CTE. As I was describing to him how over his life is, he just had this doofus smile. Well, I don't think it's over. Those big new teeth is.

You know, I think, you know what it is with Will? They're not, like, they don't view it's over like i don't big new teeth is you know i think you know what it is with will they're not like they don't view themselves as like barstool like they do but they don't so it's kind of like but wouldn't that even be more reason to be like we're a guest like yeah you know what i mean i i athlete grown up selfish entitled douchebag i don't know how else to say it uh what what's your vibe as i mean like in like an hour or so you're doing this pen thing right yeah i don't know which is very i didn't understand you put the hat on dave come on you don't know much about me if like they give dave this hat that is crazy it's a nice hat but it's not a portnoy hat cool it looks like a skateboard yeah but you're not like a skater i don't think i quite understood the scope of what this thing is.

Francis is moderating it? I don't understand that. Who are the other options? Who's there? I guess there's nobody else in the office. Is it Francis or Frank the Tank? I don't really know what that means. I don't.

Why does it, like, I guess the idea I heard that people are submitting anonymous questions. Which I don't understand because don't you see where they come from? So they're not anonymous. Well, he's going to, I guess he's keeping it anonymous. Oh, Francis? That's the idea behind it, whether or not it happens. We'll see. The vault that is Francis Ellis.

This is actually a great hat. This is the kind of. It's got the date on the side, too. The Siegelman, like, style. Are you... I don't know what... Like, to me, nothing's changing. Yeah, I was going to say, this is almost like...

I get asked that a lot. Like, when the original deal was done, this was always the plan. Right. So, it's just been, like, waiting, like, the time ticking down. Yeah, I think when Penn did the original transaction, they didn't know the temperature. Wall Street, haters, whatever, would have the barstool. So it's like, let's dip the toe in. If they probably bought a barstool right away, 100%, it would have been probably World War III.

Like people who don't like us, because there's still kind of always that pushback. So I think that was part of it. But to me, nothing really is changing here. There may be stuff changing that I don't have to deal with, like accounting, shit like that. But I don't think we're going to see much change from content. Well, that's always been the thing. When you sold to Churn or invested, however you want to call it, they were like, we won't touch content. Penn was pretty much like, we won't touch content.

That's always been the first thing, non-starter, right? Gambling, they do. Well, right. But that's like regulations and laws and shit. It's not like you can't tell this joke. Correct. No, no. And I mean, I don't think anybody on our side would say differently.

No, not at all. Was that, if they had wanted to buy straight up Like, did you come up with the 50-50? They did. I had nothing to do with really the negotiations, so to speak. Really? Yeah, because Churnin was our owner at that point. And those guys are savages. So in terms of like negotiating and whatnot.

Right. So I was very comfortable with them negotiating the price and all that stuff. You know, there were some things I think I had to work out and some things I didn't even understand at the time of the movements and the lawyers and stuff like that. But for the most part, churning negotiated. Like, there was no. And they just came to you and said, was it like you have to approve or it was just like, this is what's happening? No, I had to approve. Right.

But like. Because you were still the owner at that point. Well, no. But you still had churning out all of that. 51% was churning. So they theoretically in spirit could have done whatever they wanted. Obviously, I think our content is all generally on the same page with this. So if we're like, well, we don't like that, like what's churning?

Well, churning, they're smart. Because I could see other companies being like, nope, we're going to do it our way. But why even sign up if you're going to do that? To be honest, churning. So let me rephrase. There's a couple of things that happened. Churning never spoke with Penn about buying us

until Penn decided they want to buy us. And then the price and everything. Jay didn't really, I don't want to say trust Chernin, and I don't think Chernin totally trusted Penn. Interesting. I love Jay. I still do, the CEO. He loved Erica.

He met, I think the introductions were made. Jay met Erica and I and was just kind of feeling us out. Like, who are these people? Do they get along? Do I like them? And he liked us right away. How did that come about? Like, I remember the hefty lefty and that connection with Cher.

The introduction to Penn? Yeah. We had that guy, David, who was with us for a cup of coffee. He was actually hired to help with the merger. Do you guys remember him? David. Yeah, he had glasses. He was there very quickly for maybe a year.

Wow. He introduced Penn to us. It's weird because Churn hired a banker who I hate, Mollis. And this became public because someone made a, who's this person doing science? So Mollis was our banker, hired by Chernin. And they do all the gambling, like, mergers and acquisitions in the space. So they are reputable. And we went and met gambling, like mergers and acquisitions in the space. So they are reputable. And we went, met fans, draft, poker, you name it, we met.

And we didn't get anywhere. And then win. Like not even a nibble? Nope, not really. That is interesting. And then Mollis blamed it on me. It wasn't supposed to get back to me. But Mollis is like, Dave's too toxic.

Nobody will deal with Dave. It's his fault. So that was said to me. Obviously, I got angry. We internally, somebody introduced us to Penn. The guy, David. So it didn't come from this banker. We met with Penn, hit it off.

And then it was all me and Erica talking to Jay. And then when Jay's like, yep, we want to do it, it got turned over to churning with the Penn lawyers. Money guys. And we probably should do that. So, yeah. And then we still had to pay a very big commission to Molas, which I hated. Really? Because they did nothing.

Oh, fuck. But you had, like, locked him? Yeah. And I knew they trashed me. Ugh. Yeah. And there's no way out of that? No.

So they got millions of dollars for trashing me and not doing the deal. Jesus Christ. And then they wanted to do a celebratory dinner at the end. No way. The only dinner worse than that one. Yeah. Jesus Christ. They legitimately asked you that?

Like, hey, let's go to dinner? Yeah. And did you? I was just like, fuck no. Go fuck yourself. I kept saying I know what that guy said. One guy I liked, and a guy that I barely knew was the one who trashed me, and I just was like, I kept saying I know what he said.

Yeah, yeah. So we did get the fee down a little bit, but. Did you believe that there was, like, did he make that up? That I was too toxic? Yeah, did those other companies pass that? I'm sure that played a factor, but I don't know. Almost all of those companies had done business with us before in some manner. I know buying somebody is different, but it's not like they –

We set the market. We were really the first person. And by the way, if you look, I believe about around the time we were talking to these people, McAfee was still with us. Right. Like, you weren't. McAfee was still with us? Yeah, when we were going through this. Because there was nobody.

McAfee really, for a lot of different reasons, but one of the big things that caused him to leave is he had a $500,000 relationship with. Right. And we had to get rid of him. And we couldn't do that. do that yeah because when you're going legit you can't take the illegals he wanted the illegal and we're like you can't he was bullshit and that played a factor and like ironically now he's like fan duel but that played a big factor but yeah he during the time that it's like hey we're still selling cooper was still with still with us. Yeah, it was the Avengers for us. Yeah, and no one made an offer. It's just crazy. And then you go look.

I think, I don't know how much FanDuel paid by themselves for McAfee. It's like over $100 million. And they won't offer us $100 million for the whole thing. For the whole fucking thing. No way, really? Which is bananas. I mean, Pat's a monster in the space as well yeah i get it but like could have got a lot more he could have gotten him me dan all the gambling yeah so but

yeah that's how it so back to the original the levers were always there it's like they set up the 36 let's see how it goes but the intent was always to buy it three years down the road, and the prices were pretty much set. So you had a floor and you had a roof that it could sell at. So people keep asking what's going to change. To me, you're honestly, of everybody, the biggest change because you didn't get paid in the original. Right. Right. Yeah. It's a huge day for me. the biggest change because you're you didn't get paid in the original right right right yeah it's a huge day so you have like the 17th circled on your calendar for a long time counting down that day yeah and i didn't know like people like at times i heard the first of the year like like

or the new year so i think it's does that mean like january and then i heard it was february i was like is it february 1st like what what fucking day is it fe I'm pretty sure it's February 17th. Got it on the hat right there. It's stitched on the side of your hat. That's the day. That other side. Because the original deal, I got money in the beginning. Dan got money in the beginning. And primarily, which is we've talked about, they were very, like, for better or worse.

I don't think the deal would have been done without Dan being like, yep, I'm locked in and ready, and me locked in because we were the gambling people that they needed. Where if you were like, I'm bouncing, they would have still done the deal. Right, they want the gambling. Correct. How dumb are we for not gambling? It's like the one vice we don't have, and it ended up biting us in the ass. You can't be dumb, though.

It's like because well everyone knows like we got lucky in the fact that that's how it broke but we're gambling i mean that's the company it wasn't like a fake you two are the only guys in the world to like beat the house 100 you know maybe a couple vegas guys but other than that yeah no but i mean where i've been i've been gambling since i've been young sometimes i wonder though like i hate i i don't like the people who have tried to jump on the gambling train when they're obviously not well i mean mcafee made a shit ton of money right and he didn't get he didn't i taught him how to gamble but that was at least interesting

because i remember him being like i could and now yeah right yeah people who could have all these years and then just started, that kind of bothers me. But I'm also thinking about we've been here so long now. Edelman right now is all over Winbet, but he couldn't either. So they at least have a reason. I'm thinking now though, it's been long enough that if we had started a long time ago

we would be natural. At least it wouldn't be phony by now. I like Caravis, but I mean, in me natural like at least it would be it wouldn't be phony by i like caribous but i mean i that in my in in me doing this industry that's the weirdest deal i've ever seen yeah the caribous to drive well do you think that there is and i'm almost hoping this is the case for like this that it's i feel like it's weird in the gambling space that the the thought is you have to be

a gambler or a good gambler. Like if you have an audience, you have an audience. Right. And if I can get you to sign up just the same way we're not experts at fucking cooking, but we sell HelloFresh. You know what I mean? Right. So in the beginning, it felt like you need gambling to sell gambling. Yeah.

But now there's so many comics and other podcasts and like, I think other, I don't think you have to be a gambler to get gamblers. Yeah, I don't know. Also, sometimes I think you guys appeal to like the hardcore gamblers and they're already gambling. Right. Don't you want like, get outside that bubble a little bit with, you know, if I did an ad read, be like, hey, I'm not a gambler, but this is a good way to get into it, blah, blah, blah.

Sort of. The only thing that you gotta remember when you're like, they're already gambling, it's new. So, like, they're not gambling in Massachusetts with anybody. So, it's like, it's a clean slate. Like, if that wasn't the case, certainly we wouldn't have been as interesting

to pen. In the industry, I think it is in a very different spot than it was when they did the deal. Like, the Penn stock at one point was, I think, 180. Yeah, it was fucking bananas. 33 or 34 now. So I think the entire, we still have a different model, but for now, the gold rush of gambling.

Think it's over? It's not at the height like you're probably not going to see the deals that you saw before because there's so much competition and in the margins are razor thin right now did you when it was like 180 were you like i'm a billionaire like it's just going to go forever pretty much yeah that was like the first time i started paying attention to the stock market was during COVID. Right. Like I'd never invested. And when I got in was a very good time. Everything was going up. But Penn was.

I mean, Penn was almost at zero. Yeah. Penn was at four. Four. I remember at four and I was like thinking about myself. I was like, I should just throw all my money in it because it can't go any lower. Can it? And then I was like, I don't know.

But I was doing that. It was going lower. It closes. You know, who knows? The day we rang the bell at the NASDAQ was the worst day in the history of the world. There were puff and champagne bottles. That was so awkward. It's an awkward thing to do in general.

We had a lot of people, and it's the fake bell. It's not on the trading floor. We had, what, like 100-foot fucking screens outside of us? It was literally the worst day in the history of NASDAQ. We're going to kill ourselves. We lost all our money. Also, around the pen, they pumped me up so much. I bought, I think, like $2 or $3 million more dollars of pen at that point at like $32 million, and it went to like $4 million.

And I didn't know them well enough. At that point, I was like, if pen goes out of business, do I get Barstool back? How does that work? I had no idea. What is the answer? I still really don't know what would happen. Because I didn't know Jay well enough to be... I don't think at that point he would have been like, we're about to go out of business.

And it was COVID. Who fucking knows? But I don't... Remember they were literally a fun ending. Just ending up back in Milton. Right in the block again. That would be kind of a fun ending, just ending up back in Milton. Yeah, right. Well, my favorite, like, out of all the ups and downs, I remember, I think it was when we were getting sued for the pedophile joke or one of the blackout tour.

That's still one of the luckiest things that that guy never had. Dave, I think about that every day. I think about it every day. I've never been more that I didn't sleep for like weeks. I remember you being like, he's suing us and he's going to win.

He's like, you broke the law to the letter of the law. He's going to win. Thank God. I still can't even, let alone file a lawsuit, I still can't even log into Zenefits because I don't know what company I work for. We did it for so long. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like Barstool Sports. Barstool Sports, Inc. Yeah, it's correct. Yeah, it goes up. It starts at Dave Portnoy. Barstool Sports doing business at Dave Portnoy, then at C Corp. And my dad is the one doing stuff. He doesn't, in hindsight, really know what he's doing.

But, yeah, that gentleman just, we kept tying him up on paperwork. He wasn't filling it out correctly. He never got it. I thought that he was just stupid and fucked it up. Was that like a tactic on our part? Were they doing that on purpose? No, he screwed up. He never hired a lawyer.

And he was filing to the wrong the paperwork incorrectly right and the statute what we weren't it we weren't doing that on purpose it's we were i guess like you said we have all these different names so it in a weird way it was a similar thing like what the business side when my shit got thrown out the judge like nope i'm not even gonna look at it you're not at that point like you're not doing it correctly got it and uh so it that just never got looked at that well i was gonna say when one of those lawsuits was going down i remember you being like i i don't know we don't have any money so like you can you can just have like barstoolsports.com and we'll just start barstoolsports2.com like Just move over here. Michael Scott paper.

Yeah, that was my dad. That was his early defense. Guess that ass. When we were getting sued, we went through the phase because, obviously, we were doing that so early. And then the internet and ambulance chasers of sorts started catching up. And we had a billion pictures. Yeah, so they'd be like, you, that guess that ass, which you could have bought in real time for 20 cents, you owe us 20,000 now for it. For like every picture, right? Because it's like, right.

And my dad would just call, he's like, I'm his dad, he can't afford a lawyer, they have no money. And he'd settle for like pennies on the dollars. Pays to be broke, I guess, you know? Get HelloFresh and skip that extra trip to the grocery store and the long checkout lines or the automatic checkouts, which never work. They never work. I don't know how we can send rockets into outer space and land them with SpaceX, but we can't get the checkout line at the grocery store to work. Because you buzz it and then it says, like, no, it didn't buzz. And then you put it down.

It says, like, the weight isn't there. And I'm like, well, I don't know, man. The thing that I'm buying doesn't weigh a lot. So that's on you for not recognizing that I put it down it says like it's not the weight isn't there and i'm like well i don't know man the thing that i'm buying doesn't weigh a lot so that's on you for not recognizing that i put it in the right spot and then you call the person over and they look at you like you're an idiot and you're like i'm not an idiot and then as they're walking away something else goes wrong and they come back and they're like you're definitely an idiot i'm like no this is definitely proof that it's not me and it's the fucking machine and i could just get rid of all this when i use hello fresh that way you can spend more time doing the things you love and not arguing with the people at the grocery store.

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You can be yourself all the time. Back then? Yeah. You mean like in content? Content, talking to people, everything. We're so much bigger. I'm pretty careful with like what i say i know that sucks yeah yeah not i used to love being basically anonymous yeah which makes

you sound like a troll but like i'd like to be able to write a blog about a person or a celebrity and maybe they would see it but probably not now it's like they're gonna see everything like fucking adam when you tweet it yeah people snitch on you and it's like they're going to see everything. They're like fucking Adam when you tweet it. People snitch on you. And I still have, I think I'm the only person, like in one of the few companies actually, what I say ricochets across everybody. So if I do something, it's like it becomes all of Barstool and everybody gets that. There's extra pressure on you. Yeah, so I don't really – and I'm at the stage.

I don't want to fuck things up. I'm doing a lot less. Is that a conscious effort with social media? I notice you don't really use social media. Yeah, Twitter. Are you still on it or you just don't tweet much? Yeah, no, I'm on it. You're on it.

You just don't tweet much? No, I tweet a decent amount, but nothing like – You go through a run, but it's usually just a pizza review. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't... I mean, I'm not consciously not doing it, but I'll consciously at times just be like, it's not even worth it.

Or jokes that aren't even going to... I do that a lot. I type it out and I just delete. I feel like any time a bunch of us will ask, is this all right? And it's like, if you even have to ask, what are you going to get? A couple of tweets?

What is the upside? Right, right. That's what I always do with Twitter. But I also think that's, yeah, specifically with Twitter. But in general, I do kind of think that's a little bit of a slippery slope, where it's like you start to do that, and over the years, all of a sudden, you're like a completely clean, you know, watch what you say type of operation. If I get out,

like, it doesn't affect me. Like, for me personally, like, I don't, it's, people know who I am, it is what it is. It will hurt, it's going to hurt other people more than it's going to help me, so I'd rather let other people do it. But if I, like, being controversial. Got it. So,

like, Barstool's made it. Like, I'm going to get get i've gotten my payout it's not gonna change drastically fuck it up for other people you've done your whole thing you're done no no i still like i get a shit ton of money on the 17th as well like that'll be the most i've gotten to this point by far yet on the 17th um but i mean cash for you no it's same i'm in the same setup as you i wasn't sure if it was no it's literally the same exact setup um so it's basically like i i got i got the 35 now i'm getting the 65 so it's like the 65 part of the deal i haven't gotten any that where you're getting like 100 of the part now right that's the difference basically which in a weird way outside not having money benefited you guys because or

well you mostly because it went up the price yeah so i got like paid on the first price and then whatever so but um i mean if i let's say i have two more years. That's how long I'm under contract. Two more years and then I'm out. You would see me very unchained again. I would start flinging. Really? Oh, yeah. I didn't know if you were. You're itching to let it rip again.

At times, there's parts. Or I just disappear. But I wouldn't care. The part of me being protective of myself has no no bearing on me being bigger personally yeah it's

there's just so much stuff going on what I feel like a lot of the content you do now is this kind of stuff talking about your career

and Barstool whereas like blogging and Rundown used to be current events topics like of the day I think there's you can be a lot more funny

when you're doing that kind of shit yes versus just talking this is interesting yeah but like do you miss doing just like a i mean i like a good old does this look like the face of a blog or were you sick of those no it's more like there'll be something that i have a real opinion on yeah oh i'd like to get out but that passes in 10 minutes i know because it it dude writing blogs is like i used to yeah love it and when i finished one particularly a long one i was proud of it it felt good i love the reaction and now it's it's yeah i mean and it used to be even you know we said we used to sit on a blog for days yeah perfect it and like the lebron scoring record i would be in the lab for if you would still be doing you

still be doing content i would have every back example. I wrote that 27 Reasons He's the Antichrist. I have that updated. But that would take me 48 hours of not leaving my chair. And then there's just the business. The amount of time, if you did a podcast in that amount of time, with five ad reads, you're making a lot more money versus one blog. I like doing the rundown when we do it.

A lot of it, you still need the right people to do it with and the camaraderie and stuff like that. That's why I stopped at a Portland show with Eddie. It was boring and tedious. I think that might have been how you felt. Obviously, the host has to be in the right frame of mind to do a show. But I think the people loved it. I don't know. I feel like I'm pretty objective about it.

Like I'm not one to shy away and be like, oh, I'll give myself credit if I think so. I was like this. Was it performing? Not, yeah. But I mean. I mean, isn't that the indicator, right? I'm sure, you know,

you get some fucking small group chirping, but. No, that's not the indicator at group chirping but you stopped because of you? yeah because of feedback and stuff like that I just didn't think there was a couple episodes towards the end where I'm like this is I'm falling asleep

no it is though but once a week? no yeah I mean it probably should be on point every time but there are lulls and like I don't know I feel it's like we've started basically doing Yeah, I mean, it probably should be on point every time. But there are lulls and, like, ebbs and flows.

I don't know. I feel it. It's like you can't. We've started basically doing inside barstool stuff kind of to fill that void because I think there was a lot of people being like, we want to hear it. Yeah, they like that part of it. But, no, to the views, it's like it's really hard for me to do anything that doesn't get, like, views now. I have just my crowd is big enough where there's enough there's enough to get something but it wasn't like crazy

what is what do you think is your biggest uh like your best content ever best piece of content ever not even piece but it's like like uh let's say all your blogs versus your DeflateGate, like, the whole DeflateGate versus Pizza Review versus, but, like, you know, like you have several things that are very, you could be defined by. You're the pizza guy. In the beginning, it was like you're the blogger. During DeflateGate, you were the NFL, like, menace.

I think most people know me as Pizza. I don't know the best but that's both you go through cycles like um bff's like huge yeah i was gonna throw that in there too it might be new and a little bit different but like that might be your most successful metric in the scheme of how i want to work like that was exactly what you perfect wanted to do. That's still going, right? Yeah.

Is he here still? I'm playing golf with him tomorrow. He was playing basketball before. He's actually a good guy. Oh, he's a great dude. Great dude. Majority of those guys, I'm sure they're all cool when you meet them or whatever,

but on the surface, they're all like, that's a douchebag. Yeah, no, he's a smart guy. And he always, you know a douchebag. Yeah, no, he's a smart... And he always... Yeah. You know, when we talked to him, like, he was talking about how he used to... And he understands how he sees music. He's like, I get it, I get it.

Yeah, he knows those dances were cringey. Totally. He used to talk about how his sister would find the people who were liking his stream, and then he would DM them. The highest-paid people. They would pay the money, like, you know, 12 years old or whatever, making cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smart guy. That's why i learned right away talking to him um that he was with it but it's crazy because we go through the stages but i'll see like 14 15 year old like girls that's right away they're like

bff like you can see them a mile away um and like brianna's huge like brianna's fucking huge and that's all part of that so that got us a different crowd i i still think probably the best stuff we did is the blog like our if you sometimes go back and read the old blogs they're very funny dude that's actually and you can say whatever the fuck you want it's like outrageous you know i what one went uh viral, the Zola. Yeah. Who? They made that movie, Zola.

It was a girl. I don't think you remember this. It was a girl who was basically like a hooker who had a Twitter thread of her craziest night ever. It was one of those early days where Twitter threads, like Kelly Keeg's plane breakup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it went super viral.

It was just a crazy night of her and her girlfriend being a hooker and guns and drugs and all that shit. And then it became super viral. It was like just a crazy night of her and her girlfriend being hooker and guns and drugs and all that shit. And then it became a movie. When the movie got announced, the blog I wrote on that thread was like the number one thing that popped up. So it was getting to be number one on Reddit. So it started like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like the headline, I was like, Jesus Christ, John.

It's like Zola and her fucking whore friend yeah i used to call i listen anybody and that's where you get in trouble anybody i think who knows me well like i don't care black white gay straight but i just used to call gay people gay balls all the time all the time i just thought it was like funny gay ball but like obviously funniest and i i literally have it on my phone. I'm in the camera roll right now. When I was watching the Grammys the other day, Lizzo was fucking whatever. I know what I see.

I see you, fat bitch, Lizzo. I see you, Lizzo, you fat bitch. And it was nice. It was friendly. You were filming Taylor Swift or whatever, and then you were like, I see you, Lizzo, you fat bitch. Because I think at that point she was like being proud of it yeah no

all the stuff you can't so the blog by the way talk about lucky what do you think is luckier pedophile lawsuit or DevNest deleting those blogs that would have probably cancelled the whole fucking show

I mean I used to be so mad at DevNest because I was like, oh, some of my best work. One day I wanted to go back and look at it. And then I'm like, thank God it happened because. Yeah, it's crazy. I guess it's good. We used to have that spinner thing that you could. Random blogger. Yeah.

Which that probably would have gotten in trouble. But I still get things brought up. Like, I mean, literally, like, the size 6 skinny jean is still the go-to. So hack to just use that every time. But, yeah, we're probably lucky because we probably forget some of the stuff. I tried to do, when our YouTube started really taking off, I was like, a lot of our episodes are evergreen because it's not topical. So I was like, let's just start uploading old episodes to YouTube and fucking have 500 new episodes. And the very first one, I started to listen through,

and I was like, nope, nope, nope, nope. Like within two minutes, can't say that, can't say that, can't say that. I mean, it is crazy. Like the gambling, along those lines, like the gambling stuff, we've had lots of issues, and you guys may know this, but this is how crazy the world is regulated. Dan's can't lose parlay because they're saying he's saying he can't. He's telling people he can't lose.

Yeah, it's like how stupid you have to be. He's not doing those anymore? He has to be very careful with, like, the way he does it. But that is how, like, great it is. People who don't like us are saying they're pulling it up. And, you know, they'll be like, Jersey Jerry said this game was permanent. Yeah, can't use those words. It's insanity.

That sucks. You can't say permanent. There's people who don't like us in that world who will do whatever. So they report to the gaming commission? Yes. And that's like, it's in a blog or even on a stream, you can't say it? Anywhere? Yeah, and they watch everything. They catch catch you so do you get nervous with like streams are you like

more curious who's gonna be there yeah more so lately and we're getting more fucking animals yeah right yeah more so lately like the massachusetts we just got legalized and i watched the hearings and i mean there was a woman who just hated me. Like, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. And to the point, like, the committee, one guy was like, you're being unfair to them. It's almost good when they're so crazy. Yeah, you're holding them to a different standard than everybody else. And they are because, you know, like, what's his face? The comedian.

Who does draft? Who I like. Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart. Yeah. If you want to go into his history and pull out things and take it literal and big, you can do that. So it, but they just, and I mean, you've been here for a long, I don't know where, because we certainly haven't said and done things that are any different than like tons of other comedy sites. But we have been perceived the way we've been perceived for a long ass time. I was thinking it was the Blackout Tour.

Well, I was going to say the Blackout Tour became synonymous with just like techno music and Molly, even though there's 50 fucking thousand. But for us, it became synonymous with trying to get girls to black out. Like, I remember. It's honestly the name, right? Yeah. It was called the Blacklight Tour. Right.

But it also maybe wouldn't have worked. I read a quote. It was from Northeastern. And it was a girl who just blatantly lied, saying, and you were probably at all the nurses, that guys were carrying girls out of the club on their shoulder. And it's like, this is just totally made up. Honestly, now seeing how the internet evolved and we know how that works, like, we were probably surprised by it back then. But people lie all the fucking time on the internet.

They just make shit up to slander a political party or a company or a person. So that was kind of the beginning of it. We just didn't know. So, shout out to Anna Simbor. I think like her little crew. Net negative or net positive in the end, though? It's the all-time question. Oh, it's got to be net positive, right?

I don't think you're making hundreds of millions without the renegade style. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And that goes back to all we- Maybe a little less stress in your life, but the money and the success, I think. But it's weird because- She must be at home like, fuck.

Totally backfired. Yeah. I mean, that obviously played a factor. I think Boston sports success, the Patriots specifically, like we became the face of like the Patriot fan. Totally. That, I think, played a factor. I mean, I've always said that. COVID.

COVID was huge. Along the way, there's been like tent poles where it's like. But the amount of timing. Yeah. Like it was the Boston sports thing. It was the advent of blogs. Yeah, totally. We've gone through two or three social media platforms arriving.

If you are a few years older or a few years younger, I don't know if any of this happens. Yeah, and we don't, as much as the people who don't like us will chirp, and they may be our fans, we have very talented people have come either here or come through the doors. And, like, you know, the early SNL model thing, I used to say, kind of, in a way, has held true. It's much harder now because talent has so many vehicles. They don't need us as much. So, you know, the pitch is like we'll put gasoline but if

you're growing on tiktok it it do you you don't need the network right now necessarily which i think is relatively new though yeah it is like i think you need i think it was tiktok yeah because you could just get so not like like tiktok you just get so many so fast. Like Jen Seltzer. Yeah. Like an Instagram star. Right. And you had the Vine people. Yeah, at that point, I remember I used to have Instagram just for Guess That Ass. Yeah.

Like my friend follower list was deplorable when I first, I had to purge everybody to start following like comedians and whatever, you know? Yeah. It was just ass. I couldn't open Instagram in public. It was crazy. You could just go to like egotastic like um superficial superficial yeah just go like they got the houses up and i never really michael k i liked him i never really gave thought to where those pictures were coming from

i'm like we're just there's just a picture on the internet you can all use that putting no big freaking deal yeah yeah i used to you know italics, a credit source, the AP. I don't know who they are. I never gave it a thought. Like, there's a photographer taking these? Like, that's crazy. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. When you're at your best, you can do great things.

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And the real kicker with BetterHelp is that you don't have to go anywhere because I never wanted to commute downtown. I never wanted to be face-to-face. I never had to worry about parking or awkward. I remember one time being in an awkward waiting room where some guy recognized me. I was like, I hate this. Now you can text, you can call, or you can do video calls all because of BetterHelp. Right now when you go to BetterHelp.com, B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com, use promo code KFC, you get 10% off your first month right now. That's BetterHelp.com slash KFC. You get 10% off your first month right now.

That's betterhelp.com slash KFC. Get 10% off your month. If you want to live a more empowered life, therapy can get you there. Betterhelp.com slash KFC. You got any regrets? No. Not really. None?

No. That's crazy I mean it's hard to have a regret Because everything led it to here That's also People are like Why would you do this Why would you do that It's like

Whether It was luck Whatever Like It's probably a one in A quadrillion story Like the way it started I didn't finish my thought

But I was going to say The It's the talent But the timing of that is like that's why it all boom we would have probably had a nice successful blog but there were so many competitors

and none made it we outlasted the Chive and BroBible Elite Daily but I mean I see them on TV at bars they have a Chive channel that's on, like, repeat. Yeah, it's right time, right place, right everything.

I think, like, I always sort of was coming out of a business perspective, but it really, I think, was the combo. The right time, right place, right everything. I don't know. I feel like. I've said that like there's many times where if something didn't happen right like we wouldn't have been able to continue right like it was over all the way from the newspaper yeah like this woman erin boyce who didn't come into the picture like i had no way to make the newspaper like and a friend of friends

like she knows how to do it. It was so much harder than I could ever imagine. I would have been fucked if that didn't happen. And then what was Ian somebody? Was the website? Ian White. Ian White. He was just moving?

And he was like, I'll build a site? Yeah, I used to hand him the newspaper at South Station. And he's like, I like reading it. I'm moving. I'll just build you something. You can throw it up there quick. And then he just, when I'd be like, can you make this change? He'd do it and do I like reading it. I'm moving. I'll just build you something. You can throw it up there quick. And then he just, when I'd be like, can you make this change? He'd do it and do it and do it.

You say like powered by Ian White or something. Yeah, he was the CTO of, was it weirdly, Business Insider at one point. Oh, shit. Didn't he interview to come back? Yeah, he was going to come back all the way back. We went with what, Jeff the Design Menace instead? Yeah, who was also. I haven't.

Believe it or not, I have not talked to him. I talked to him. He was with me for like 14 years. After Bubbly Gang, I didn't speak to him again. He was part of that. 14 years? He was there. Yeah. He was there from almost the beginning.

Yeah. Really? He was there from a long time. I don't realize. Maybe I emailed him sometimes. The last thing I asked him was when I realized that our website had been copied and he did it. I was like, did you do this? Never heard back.

Never heard from him again. Never even answered. Nope. Wow. Where do you stand with the Bubbly Gang? Is it still on site, as the kids say? I would say it's almost come to the point where it's like I just hope he's okay. Lou?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we've all seen the roller coaster that is Lou. Yeah. The ups and downs. That's always Lou. That's always Lou. Yeah, this is, yeah.

I mean, I don't know. It's not great, I don't think. You don't have, you don't, like, again, it's hard to have a regret when you make half a billion dollars or whatever, but there's no, do you think there was a misstep along the way? Do you ever say, like,

ah, I wish if we had done that, maybe it would be worth a fucking billion instead of 650? That's wild. I don't even know how we got here I know that's also the thing You know when people accuse us of like It's scripted or whatever

Or we're stealing money Or whatever it's like We're just Or you're making up stories Chipmunk eating our Yeah right Regularly It was regularly

The internet would drop and we weren't sure for a while like we can hear something in there it's like we're peeking around it's like is this thing gonna come at us we didn't know what it was if you could you go back to that let's say you keep your money and everything but your everyday work is going into like the milton office could you do that would you do that and i gotta work just as long you mean like you gotta put it yeah you gotta put it no maybe not the whole day because we used to fucking grind yeah but if it was like go back yeah i think i think so i don't the money i you get used to the money but i don't

that like it's nice to have but that that i would be fine without having you get to an age i'm i mean i'm getting up there where it's like i wouldn't love the thought of having to start over like you know if you watch like the madoff shit when like those people are like i gotta go in like bad groceries and right start an entry level shit now yeah i think you'd have to take everything away from me because I could go do whatever. I've said this on something. I can make money pretty easily now. It's kind of fucked.

In what regard? It took so long for Barstool to make money and me make a cent, and now I can work one one-billionth of as hard as I did back then. Like 10x the money? Correct. Put my face on advertise like if i wasn't doing barcelona if it collapsed like there's plenty of things what would you do you think i don't know just be a pitch man for something i feel like you just would you keep doing podcasting shit no i've debated this with you before because i remember you saying

if i get 10 million dollars i'm out i'll just i'll just go sit on the beach high school you wrote a blog where it was like, I think you said it was two. Two million. Oh, I think it was two million dollars. The blog was, what's the number you need to retire? I told Mike Rapoli, who he's like a billionaire, he started Vitamin Water and Body Armor,

that if he gave me $25 million cash, I would just sell him, and he didn't do it. He claims. What does that mean, sell him? Barstool. Oh. Yeah. Shit.

What was your pitch? Was this during Big Brain? What's that? Was this during Big Brain? Before that. What was the pitch to Mark Cuban? It was like $5 million, wasn't it, for like a percentage? I don't even think I won money.

You just wanted him to like. Yeah. You can have it as long as you. Yeah, but you have to be like active. I think I'd have to read. That was the hard dick. No, I think you're right. I think you're right. Or if it was something very small, it was just like come on board and be part of it.

Right. The hard dick business. Hard dick business. So to me, those are three different businesses. No, you guys are in connecting, in the business of connecting to hard dicks and creating fun and making them think that they know what's going on. It was just like, come on board and be part of it. The hard dick business. I mean, what we've done, though, I think what a lot of people don't think we or I could have done.

Because I am fairly removed now. Like, I'm on my island and I do pizza, but I'm not doing content with other people. And the Barstool brand is bigger than ever. Like, if I'm totally out of it, Barstool's not going anywhere. Right. You think you're going to be out of it? Which is surprising because I never thought that was the case. Yeah, that was for sure the biggest detraction.

It's like, well, once he's gone... I think we would take a hit, but you'll be alright. Do you think? And what? I'm not part of really content outside my own world now. I guess so. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if there's a direct, like, yeah, if you leave

fucking Moon Girls Pod, it's not gonna go down the thing that i brought to the table is already gone which is um like creating unhappiness at the office but is great content like you know like just if something happens i think at the office now it's like oh do we really want to talk about it? Where it's like, I want to talk about it and beat it to ground and make people almost cry. Uncomfortable and upset. Right.

You relish that. Yes, that's what it is. I'll never forget the time you came out. But that's like our best content. If you go back on Barstool fans, what are they like? Do you think that there was also a way, because I have a different philosophy on it, and I feel like it would be different content.

And I do ultimately think yours is more, like, captivating. But I think if it was, like, almost like an entourage element, where, like, all the guys were like, let's make it. And we're all like, and we do kind of have that. But if it was more of, like, we're all on the same show. We all like each other. We're all, and everyone roots for that. Yeah.

Rather than, like, I'm team this and team that. Well, the team thing I don't think was necessarily, that started who? The team thing was Frankie and Trent. No, that was team Portnoy started it. No, no, no, no. Someone, Robbie Fox started it. Yeah, Robbie and Trent. Robbie and Trent said they were team KFC. Oh, right, right, right.

There was some stupid, like, I did not create team KFC. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was some argument on radio. I forgot about that. It was Robbie Fox. You had to pick one of us or something. And fucking Robbie Fox. I don't even want to bring it back up for him because I don't want him back in the blender with Dave.

But he walked into the radio, had his hands behind his back, and said it with his chest. I'd be Team KFC. And then Trent rolled in afterwards, and Dave was like, you're both fired. Well, Trent was – Trent's never really liked me. I don't think that's true. He may like me a little more. No, he didn't like me in the beginning because of the whole I didn't take him. He didn't take him to New York.

He only came to New York because I would be missing football. Talk about luck. Yeah. I mean, his whole life has changed because that one football. But what you just said, that's not my personality. Yeah. You just don't get along with – I didn't plan to make i mean feidelberg knows like

the milton like the shit that was going on in milton wasn't like oh let's create this like it's just that is what it is i mean how you operate yeah there's yelling matches there's like i was talking to frankie the other day it's still one of my favorite stories it was not too long ago so i was still in is when i was still in new york and barzell who plays for the islanders is like i guess his friend or barstool fan or whatever but he wanted to come see the office frankie's desk at the time was right in front of my office so braille was in there with his i think fiancee white girlfriend whatever maybe talking to frankie my door was open and sage was in my office and this was after we were at the kentucky derby and sage was just shoving his face with a shrimp and i was like you fat fuck like what the fuck do you think you're doing i'm sitting with these

fucking people i hate and i look and you're feeding your fat face doing nothing but i look he goes this is like a hockey locker room. I thought you can't do that anymore. I remember the one you had. It was like Kevin and Dan got in on you during a rundown, I think. I don't even know if I ever got in on you. I don't know what you're going to tell me. At the first New York office.

Yeah. And it was like, you're scaring everybody. And you're being me. I said, you're intimidating. Who's intimidating me? Anybody afraid of me? You guys aren't afraid of me, are you whatever. I said you're intimidating. Who's intimidating me? Anybody afraid of me? You guys aren't afraid of me, are you? I said, speak up now if you're scared of me.

Everyone's like, oh. I think I crawled under my desk. Get the fuck out of here. You got a fucking problem? Say it. I feel like that was the low point as far as, like, getting along. Yeah. I mean, pre-turning, yeah, you guys were all against me, no doubt.

When do you think that? Kevin and Dan. Oh. They were very, which I never understood. But they really thought my perspective was my goal was to keep them down and keep me up and it would never like i don't think that because obviously your whole fucking endeavor is right to you know which was my point it's like if i want to do that i would have just done it doing but i think you like being and want to always be the top dog well competitively but it's like i and i always said it

and it is truthful it benefits if people are passing me as long as i'm still doing stuff that's good for everyone yeah but i don't think you like that no i i truly do i don't know what do you i that i don't get i don't i get what you're seeing the smirk coming i get what you're saying bigger than me yeah but i i think you I think you're different with girls, though. No. When it's guys, I feel like you get competitive. It's sports, and it's like this is my fucking team.

It's like being on the same team and someone dusts you at practice. You're like, oh, glad he's getting a rep. I really didn't have the negative. The only time it would be negative, when PMT was exploding, they were looking at like leaving like that. That's a problem. Oh, well, yeah. Like then.

But I remember like when they were trying to sell merch and we were like, you have to sell Barstool merch. And now you look around and everyone's selling like their own individual shit, you know. But that specifically at that time was because I was worried PMT was splintering. So if you're doing an AWL and PMT merge and you don't want it really to be Barstool, and I think there's a chance you're leaving, we're just left holding the bag. We're promoting. If they had been like, we love Barstool, we're locked in. The second the ESPN thing fell apart and like

there was no threat was locked in forever go do whatever you want oh that's interesting i i never thought you were against us i i i don't know i i think it was just a weird i don't think you can do what we did and do and not have it end up being taken personal at times. There's so much shit talking. There's so much ball busting. I mean, we did either radio or rundown every day for a fucking decade. And you don't see eye to eye on a couple things, whatever it is. There's a band analogy. It's like a band who's been together at the time, clearly, on the lead singer.

And it's like the band starts getting – and I could be wrong, but around the time Churnin came, that's right about when I started making real money. People don't know, I got my Nantucket place before Churnin. Interesting. Yeah, so I had started to make money. I think you guys were doing better than you thought you'd ever be doing with us. But for mine, it's like, all right, what's the next – because we were kind of plateauing. I think you guys were doing better than you thought you'd ever be doing with us.

But for a minute, it's like, all right, what's the next? Because we were kind of plateauing. And I could have, at that stage, I could have very easily probably stayed in Boston. Then I'm just about as big a person as you have in Boston. You probably would have eventually been the mayor. Yeah, and just have my life on like, it was very easy. It was like I had everything down, and then we take the next steps to go. And it certainly helped me because I never would have gone where we are, but it put you guys, well, I keep saying it because Feidelberg is not really in this conversation.

You are, but you aren't, like in the position to, all right, here's the next step to advance. Oh, yeah. I think once churning happened, we kind of reset. Correct. You know? Yeah. And I also. I think it wouldn't have continued however we were without churning.

What do you think would have happened? I think you and Dan probably would have gone off on your own. Weren't you kind of considering that? Were you guys kind of considering that? Yeah, that's the vibe I got. I think Dan might have had... I never really had an offer that I... You were kind of what Dave was saying too.

We're kind of plateauing. You know what it was? You've always been very generous with salaries and money. Every year by December december i'd kind of be like you know fuck this or fuck that and then i would get like a raise or a bonus or something and i was like okay i'm good yeah and that was right about the turn of time is for whatever reason when things started to probably change for us money-wise where it's like, huh, there's more money coming in and

money we hadn't seen before. We had more people, but that was, and then the turn-in thing. I mean, the turn-in was really the first time I had actual, I've told, but that's, I think they, I got a check for like 3 million and that, that. Yeah. Remember you had, you had 2 million internet dollars before that, right? Correct. And that was like real money.

We sold for them for too low. They're the real champions of this whole thing. They probably made like 500, 600 million dollars. What did they sell you originally? They bought the thing for, we were valued at 12 and a half million. What year was that? 2016.

We were valued at 12 and a half million in 2016? Yes. And what We were valued at $12.5 million in 2016? Yes. And what were we valued at by 2017, 2018? Did it go quickly? We beat... Hypothetically, if you have to pay your ex-wife a certain amount of money on February 17th, hypothetically, what were we worth during the four-year period of 2015, 2014, and 2018?

You want me to lie? No, no. Well, tell me the truth, and then we'll let it out. It doesn't work for me. So they set the goal of what they want to sell Barstool for, which I think was $50 million. And they were like, if we knew that within four years right didn't be like it just exploded right off the bat but how do you do a value because nobody except churning made an offer and i always say that so it's like yeah did we sell for there's

no like we don't we're not where we are without churning right no doubt in the world like they legitimized us um and changed like and i don't think we were going to do what we did we weren't going to be like we need to go hire erica or like sure well we because they they were the ones i wasn't going to put all my money into doing that so it's like all right well if it don't work it's their money it's not my money doing it um so you were you think you were ready to would you have have... We were in New York because of Churnin, right? We're in New York because of you. No, no, no.

But I mean, fuck that, by the way. That's the truth. That's such bullshit. That's the absolute truth. That's not really true, though. That's 100% true. Because, I mean, I said I would have gone, but it had to make sense financially. No, you didn't want to pick up.

At that time, you were a family... That's not true. No, that's not true. I said if you pay... I had the conversation with her. I said if you can pay me what Caitlyn's making. Conversation of who? With you.

I had a conversation with Caitlyn about moving. No. And she was like, I'll go if he'll pay my salary. No. So I was like, I need a bit. No. That never happened. That absolutely happened.

This is the first absolute fit. No. Me and Dan were not. We had no. First of all, it always should have been New York So you're welcome I don't disagree with that But I'm telling you

Because I had the conversation with her You by far were like I really don't want to leave Dan and I were like alright we can go That's true but I was willing to If it made sense financially Why would I make this up I don't ever remember Boston being remotely an option.

You're right, New York. Well, it wasn't because at the time, I mean, she was making good money, and it was like you'd have to pay me way more. At the time, I think I was making like 75 grand. She was making like triple that. But at the time, that wouldn't have even been a me decision because the only reason the move was happening was churning. So the money would have been there.

The money was not given. This is going to have to agree to disagree. In the long run. Well, 100%. What would have happened in Boston, you know what I mean? Well, we wouldn't have gotten Erica. Right. And just in general, I mean, I feel like there's so many people come through new york no well the biggest thing is

there's more talent to hire from yeah for for sure um if i feel like like when you did when you expanded to new york pretty much worked right away right in the sense of yeah so were you expecting that because i always feel like what if me me and Keith bombed, would you have just been like, all right, good tribal, we're going to go back. Oh, you're talking when we did. I thought you meant when we actually picked up and went. No, no, I'm talking about the first expansion. Like the city expansion.

Right. I didn't know what to expect. Well, again, this is where it gets very convoluted on what is luck, what is skill. I think one of the things I'm very good at is identifying, like, talent. So you can say we got very lucky because you and Dan and Keith were all great. Yeah. So, like, if you have great, like, we added great on top of great. So you're saying that you think that was more, like, your eye than luck.

Well, it's a combo. It's like you guys were all fans of Barstool. Yeah. So it's like that's because similar sense of humor or whatever. So that's part skill, part, like. So if New York bombed, if we just sucked, people didn't like it, whatever, would you have kept trying or would you have just been like, I'm going to go back to Boston?

No, like 2009, you hired me. Right. Let's say by 2010, like, there's no traffic in Barcelona, New York, would you have just stayed put? I keep saying move. I mean more like keep it in Boston and just be the king of Boston. I probably would have given up on that, yes. Interesting.

Yeah, if we had like, what was that dude's name in Chicago? Neil. Neil. Neil. Neil for Neil. If we had a bunch of Neil for Neils. You know, Neil, though, deserves credit because Dan didn't want to go on for a full time first. He accepted that.

And Neil said, I'll do it. And that's what started Chicago. And I think when Dan saw the success, he was like, okay, fuck it, I'll do it. But without that, who knows? Well, yeah. And I don when Dan saw the success, he was like, okay, fuck it, I'll do it. But without that, who knows? Well, yeah, and I don't ever think Chicago is successful, kneel for kneel. Dan, once Chicago launched, Dan's like,

can I contribute for free? Right, he wanted to make a part-time, and then he just swallowed them up. Yeah, the deep web conspiracies are that Dan was kneel for kneel because he was so bad, he made Big Cat look good. We can definitively say it's not, but that would not be a bad plan. Talk about disappearing. That guy, you know, Pirate Simon pops up, and these characters you'll see. I don't think anybody's seen Neil.

I've heard so many stories. I heard he's a chef in Florida. I heard he was working at a lobster shack in New York. I heard the weirdest things. The other one is Weird Haircut Seth. I've heard he is not happy. He doesn't like to talk about it. He does not like the way that any of that went down.

I can understand why. I remember I was in line at the Harp one day years and years ago, and someone was like a stoolie and talking to him and he's like, I work with Weird Haircut Seth now, and he like yells at people if they have barcelona on their computer they just walk i like close that close that when do you think um when did you i don't i don't think that i hated you i was like against you but

when do you think you started to like feel that way like was there a a moment or a thing that shifted i don't think there was one. It was... Just kind of slowly... It was... I know it was doing the rundowns at the end of the Milton office. Like... Was when it got, like, testy? Yeah, it was...

It was probably deflating. I was going to say that. It was deflating. We were arguing about fucking football and it turned personal. Deflating. It was every single day. Because it was a screaming match every day. That's still the funniest one, though, when Tico was like, what's Tefliko?

How much time he got? He spent like 20 minutes. You were so passionate about explaining that to people. Just telling Tico in the middle of a target about PSI and shit like that. 20-year war. That is probably when, and if you recall, and it goes in shifts. Like at times, like I'm far closer now with Dan. When I say closer, like there was a part where I wasn't doing anything with Dan.

And then the gambling stuff, I'm with him all the time. And our relationship's probably the best because there's no longer, like in the back of my head, like the threat that he's trying to get out. Like he's as locked in as I am, so it's like, great, our relationship. If you remember the Comedy Central, that was the low point you and I were. Oh, he wanted to go. Yeah, that was not good.

He was mad at us, maybe. They might say us, like Barstool. The ESPN shit was going on. That whole... We would plan the show. Yeah, he was not happy with us i forget what exactly sparked that um but it was around like the espn indirectly was probably the best thing that happened to the company because dan's an integral part

and if it had worked he would have just yeah they at least gotten more espn unless churning was going to which i don't think they were espn was test driving them like does this work and then they're gonna make an offer that we could not match and you see crazy offers and i think they would have been gone do you think agents and stuff i mean everyone had but i i really fucking hate the guy who repped them and like it was a big thing. I think Dan knows this. But it's like he was trying to get them on the same contract. Like the year length.

PFT and Big Cat. I'm like, I will not do that. Like, because they're already off-centered. I'm like, there's no way in any world we're putting them on the same year so they can go to market together. We want $500 zillion. I'm not fucking doing it. And I think that there's a lot of stuff going on. And that's the one thing about my role that is very different is I'm a huge part of content. But then I was also thrown into this business world.

I'm dealing with agents. That sucks. And I hate it yeah the espn stuff was that the start of your hatred for agents no that was the blackout tour i've always fucking i i kind of have a theory jesse jesse yeah i still has the all-time the most violent conversation i had with uh wally manager, this guy Jesse K., who kept changing his flights and wanted us to do the change fee every time. And I just lost it. I'm like, every word was fuck at the top of my lungs.

Fucking fuck. I think it happened earlier. I feel like Jenna was the beginning of like, is it the blog or the character? Is it the individual or the name and well yeah and then i think she had some agents in her years maybe you didn't know a name or whatever but i feel like that but no i think you were on guard after that like wait this can't happen jenna literally and maybe she did and anybody who's in the office knows jenna the second she got success totally changed totally different she wouldn't do anything i knew that from afar because we used to talk a little bit she came to new york for a couple

parties and then it was just like the second she blew up and by the way at that point which people never get like i looked at her contract to go to la as a friend and be like yep this is good good luck oh wow i never thought i could monetize her because we didn't have a female. So the people who were advertising, it was like she was on YouTube. So I literally was okay with everything. Like, wish her good luck. It was the next day when she wrote the fucking blog that I'm like, what? We just had a 180 conversation, and that set it off.

Like, when she's like. You don't think that was somebody in her ear? Maybe. Like, you need to, like, on your your way out let everybody know you're the fucking good so whatever we go to next is like maybe like she didn't get like we're paying her i believe under the table oh yeah i think everybody was like so she didn't get like text, but she said something in it, which is she apologized to the people running Stool-A-Law. She's like, I'm leaving. Dave won't let me take it. It's like, I gave it to her. It's like, you can have it all.

Take the code. Do whatever you want the website. And she was just positioning herself. I feel like you were willing to give Jenna that. And Call Her Daddy was willing to get that. Well, Call Her Daddy I did not want to give her that. I had got it. They put a gun in my mouth.

So I guess it's just about whether they have the leverage in the situation. We were very different. Because these other, you know, the other thoughts like pardon my taking everyone leaving, you were like I'm going to do whatever I can to fucking stop this. But those two. Jenna at the time, it's like I had no. We were so small.

I look at this way. If I can't use it, I'm not going to hold it against you. I've always thought that, though. Keeping the IP is like, what are you going to do with it if you don't have the host of it? I agree with that. So if you look, there's different examples of everything call her daddy they're under contract for another year and a half and they were doing things that were wildly illegal they were shopping their their

share while you're back yeah and in still well in a contract and it's like that's what we try to do it's band label like we want you to blow up they blew up up faster than anybody thought, but we did compensate them for that. That's an all-time miss by you, by the way. That's your number one all-time miss. Well, we go through your number one all-time miss. He walked into the office and said, I don't like this Alex Cooper thing. I don't know what she's doing. We better get rid of her.

I remember that. It was a miss. It was a miss. We had a conscious decision because they were doing sex stuff, and we were on a sex podcast at the time. We're like, we're not going to work with them. I will tell you this. I think I was right in the way they treated everybody at Barstool because that was more my point.

I was like, these girls are not going to mess with us. And at that point, I thought we were still doing like, it wasn't as much like, you have a show, you have a show, you have a show. They became a cash cow that's like, do whatever the fuck you want. But if we're going through all-time misses, we could do Saturday for the Boys, or we could do podcasting. Well, Saturday for the Boys, that's not a miss. I mean, that was an organic thing.

But at one point, you guys wanted to kill it. When? At one point, Saturday for the Boys, you, I think, or I think it was you, was like, this is lame. We got to get rid of it. It was. I think I was considering kind of wanting it to be just a summer thing. And then someone was like, why don't we do college stuff? And I was like, oh, yeah.

Why don't we do college stuff? It was pretty sad. But you wanted to kill it in the very beginning. Saturday for the Boys? Yes, yeah. Yeah. It was pretty. But you wanted to kill it in the very beginning. Sorry for the boy. Yes. No, I had to fucking bankroll his shit because you wouldn't. You wouldn't give me money for the fucking helicopter. I had to pay for it because he was every Saturday.

He was doing something special. I don't remember that. I could see that. And he is like the third weekend. You wouldn't pay for it. So I was like, we have to keep this going. And then we made the he made the Saturday Saved by the Bell shirts. And you didn't pay for it. So I was like, we have to keep this going. And then he made the Saved by the Bell shirts, and you didn't like those. I don't remember the

shirt. It's like the Saturdays are for the boys logo, like the yellow writing with the circle. Are you sure it's Saved by the Bell? I don't know. You didn't like the idea. I don't get why we'd have merch. It's just gifts. I don't know if it was the specific shirt you didn't like. You idiot! No, well, to me, the Saturday for the boys i don't think erica was here for that uh like i

think she came a kind in the middle because i thought she was a big driver like obviously you came up with the concept unintentionally right yeah and then it exploded but i don't remember ever i mean yeah of course you don't because it's one of your biggest losses. Well, no. So the helicopter thing, I would be like, yeah, I'm not going to pay for that. I don't get that. But I never. It wasn't a specific show.

You were just like, why would we have merch for, like, gifts on Saturdays? Yeah. I don't remember that necessarily. I always thought, if I see money, I'm generally like, let's. Did you think podcasting was not a thing? Well, I've said that. Because you didn't like us? No. Or, like, because you just didn't think podcasting was not a thing because you didn't like us? No. Or because you just didn't think podcasting was a thing?

Because we were early, but Bill Simmons, Joe Rogan, there were people, Mark Maron had podcasts that were very successful. Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't get podcasts. I didn't either. You watch sports radio. I'm not a podcast guy. But to not see You just like When you saw

You knew Kirk You know Mike Rancic So like It's basically Radio And those guys Well no There's a lot more

Like technology behind it Obviously I remember when You I think The now infamous Or famous picture Of the like

Podcast Fucking graph That they had Like Like We're buying it For the podcast network Oh that was so funny man And was like, we're buying you for the podcast network. Oh, that was so funny, man. And it was like, I had wine with Kelly on it.

We had so many. It was supposed to just be like, there's Barstool, and then one line here, one line here, one line here for the podcast. But when it was like all over the fucking place. You said something to the effect of like, this is one of the reasons Churn bought us. And that was the first time I realized it was anything. I guess.

Yeah. I was like, oh. The whole time we were doing it, I thought it was just like a hobby. I mean, you were all, I remember us talking about it. And I think a lot of times my reaction is the same. It still is today. It's like, I don't get it. If you want to do it, like don't take away from what you're doing.

When I posted, the thing that started me to do it because i was solo and i didn't have like calls or radio whatever and then when my brother told me that google voice came out where you could call the hotline you could call a phone number and leave a message that's what we do on the show and i remember you were very you like i posted that idea of like call this number and you were very high on that you're like that's a great idea and then we put the episode out and I also think it's not your sense of humor the hypotheticals and stupid shit so I remember you being pumped about that idea and then it just I mean I knew you guys were doing it I mean I did uh I had a we had blog talk radio I was using right that's how I found fucking dance that's what I mean though so you were like but

but I I really... Because if you did it, man, if you had a podcast this whole time, you'd be like Joe Rogan. Yeah, but I always look at it like, how is the money coming in the door? And we weren't selling it that way. It was really, I knew you guys were growing,

but PMT exploded so quickly. And that's when, ooh, where's all this money coming? And then it's like, okay, there's a thing. But now, I mean, I'm told like, podcasting is going this way. Yeah, it. I mean, that was... And that's when, ooh, where's all this money coming? And then it's like, okay, there's a thing. But now, I mean, I'm told like podcasting is going this way. Yeah, it's a little bit over. I think if you're grandfathered

and people listen to this, do you remember when we put the automatic player on the website? So it was like a little box. Yeah. And it either auto-played

or whatever. Yeah, that was a frequent stop. And then like, so like overnight... We auto-play ads, right? No, no, no. We put like a widget that had the podcast on it. Oh.

So you could click play right on the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it either autoplayed or whatever. And like in a night, it did 600,000 downloads or something like that. And it was like, well, okay. We're getting rich off of this. I think it was, yeah. You know, back in like, remember when podcasts won numbers were crazy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the Wild West. like, remember when podcasts won numbers were crazy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the Wild West, but I remember being like, oh, my God. It worked, and then obviously it was phony. I totally didn't get, I mean, that was part of the thing. I just didn't see the ad. I was wrong on that, clearly. But I didn't see it when it was like, I looked at it like, I don't know how we're going to make a ton of money doing this. That's how I looked at it.

And then we started making a ton of money. I'm like, I don't know how we're going to make a ton of money doing this. That's how I looked at it. And then we started making a ton of money. I'm like, okay. Our first ad ever was we got $1,000 for five episodes. It was the presenting sponsor. Streaker Sports. Shout out to Streaker Sports. $1,000. They got a bottom third the whole show for like a month.

We had, I think my first blog talk radio ad was Tony's Pizza. And Elio was on the show. Kickoff is the easiest way to build credit fast. Whether you have no credit or want to boost your credit score, Kickoff is the number one credit building app that has helped over a million people take control of their credit. You can apply in minutes with no

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the lift. It takes just minutes to sign up and start building better credit. Start today at kickoff.com. All right. Last thing, because we can talk about it forever. I know you said that this was like always coming, but is there any sense of like I did? I mean, you've been rich for a while. You've been very popular for a while. But now there's a little bit of like a bookend. Yeah. Maybe 2025 will potentially be a real bookend.

But is there any sense of like I fucking did it? I set out to do this. No. I took the chance that no one else would, blah, blah, blah. I didn't set out to do this no i took the chance that no one else would blah blah blah i didn't set out to do this so that's a big i feel like that's a lot of us that are successful i feel like that's the difference yeah if we just like why we are successful yeah it's very hard not to get the authentic side of it yeah and that's even when people like dave you're a fucking cock with like you're like, buy the con man for the con man.

It's like, you got to remember, I had no money. I was broke when I started this. I was living first in my own studio that I couldn't afford with a shit show and then Renee's parents' house. So it's like, I'm always true to what you want me to act like poor when i'm rich like that's not gonna happen there are plenty of people yeah try to keep the allure of that and it's like i'm not you're lying to me right yeah yeah it's it's i said to gaz uh because this trip to the super bowl you name it i've been invited to it it's like come parties feel like you want to sit next to fucking drake you do whatever you fucking want to do you can do and i i and the si party reached out and they're like hey we got a

vip spot if any you want to come i sent it gas because we went to i i did cobble like credit cards together a super bowl it was 25 000 for a table with that point sent me back like six months they put us in a room wait what years this was the first year we went to the Super Bowl. Oh, okay. So 25. They put us in a room with the party. It was closed circuit. We weren't in the main room where the party was.

The Thunderbilt party. We had like four tables in a white-walled room with a TV watching live. It was like Di party on the TV. It was like Diplo on a TV. I made the waitress cry. She came over. I'm like, there's no way I paid $25,000 and we're not in the main room. She's like, they told you that when you bought it.

It's like, trust me. I wouldn't have done this. There's no fucking way I'm paying for a closed circuit party. I was just like, you you're lying let me talk but it stuff like that is more surreal like the access what's what was the first like if it's not now what was the first was it the churning money what was the moment you were like fuck have you ever had a tuck it house and tuck it yeah but that was pre-churning that was pretty so that's still at the end of the day was basically basically all on your own as the owner.

Yeah, it's a far- You reached like you're a pinnacle, what you thought was going to be a pinnacle. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's been, I think part of it too, it's been so gradual. Yeah. Like nothing was overnight. Like it's not like we're TikTok stars that woke up and went like viral overnight.

That's also why I think it works. Yeah. But you know what? In the grand scheme of things, getting to know a lot of these comics and shit, doing it for like 20 years. Yeah. I mean, that is long. But some of these guys do like 35 years before they make it.

Yeah. And you were pretty wealthy, what, 10 or 15 into it? Yeah, around 2016. Right. So we started in 2004. That was 2016. You got rich, rich? Yeah.

Compared to some other. That rich is nothing to the rich I am now. What made you money now? 2013. Did you have a salary? 2013. What did you do? Did you just keep all the money and then divvy up what we made?

It was just like, yeah, it was a shit show. This goes to Kevin. This goes to Kevin. This goes to Kevin. Yeah. 2013, I was probably maybe a couple hundred grand. A couple hundred grand. Something like that.

Depends. Like, I thought we were going out of business with Back to Stool. Right before Blackout Tour. Yeah. Back to Stool. Because you put, like, what? 75 grand in that? It was the end of the world. Mike Posner, Mac Miller, Wale.l. Yeah. Back to Stuhl. Because you put like what? 75 grand in that? It was Mike Posner,

Mac Miller, Wale. Chitty. Chitty. You're not the fucking Beatles. You're not the fucking Beatles. You're fucking Chitty Bang. Wait the fuck.

And nobody fucking bought tickets. And I didn't know I could get out of the contract. I just paid 50%, took a bath. But if I had to pay $100 on all of it, I would wear out. Then the Blackout Tours would save that, right? Blackout Tour, we ended up dead even.

The Blackout Tour... But at the time, I remember thinking, I don't know if this is going to work. I thought the Blackout Tour, I was going to make a billion dollars a year. We did that one night, and you made $250,000. I was doing $250,000 a night like we were doing 10 like three a week and like holy shit

but true to my personality i was taking the money like we could throw edm ourselves run by fucking bald paul like but we had the lights the lasers smoke. I was buying that all. Because why rent it every time? Because it's so expensive. So we had all this production, and EDM exploded. So we went from being the only EDM concert. Remember we had fucking Avicii? In like the second or third, first one? I think for like free.

It was so fucking early. But as quick as that came, it disappeared we had a whole so we had a whole like the whole industry though no the whole industry exploded well yes but i'm saying like besides of like maybe like um ultra and like edm and some of the big ones i feel like it like calmed down well no the dj is still huge but if we'd say hey uh come to our blackout show we're gonna play Avicii's music by Dante the Don Avicii by the way

is there tomorrow playing his own music and we're charging the same amount for tickets so and when someone OD'd which was happening a lot

didn't matter didn't matter what concert where it was we were mentioned because unlike you don't know who promotes a show you don't know

who promotes Avicii he has a promoter you don't know who it is you don't complain to Avicii and you don't even know who the promoter is we put our fucking faces on it so like it's barstool's fault it's my fault so um the insurance went through the roof we had an entire year booked and it so all the money that was made was pretty much lost the difference being it allowed me to pay you and allowed me to pay like dan it gave me a little wiggle room yeah and then the blog picked up because you guys are

great so we started making revenue that we weren't making on that side when the other disappeared so it was crucial but i feel like it was always that's why kind of whack-a-mole negotiation tactics with me all time didn't work it's like we're a losing money guy it's like you want 80% of the revenue you're fucking I'm taking a piss in the middle of your set

and you're taking a piss next to me like that was that was what was that Philly yeah when he played fucking

N-Words in Paris like a hundred times but you remember that Kanye himself did that like the next week. He played it in a row like a million times and people were like, oh.

He's not doing it because he's fucking shit face. You were, weren't you? What's that? You had to be. When Zolo and Dante went jaw to jaw. I was there when they did it a million times. Tommy Lights. All right.

I mean, there's so many fucking things we could talk about but thank you for doing it man yeah and thank you for everything yeah well getting rich in a couple weeks yeah big day

big day you know you gave me you gave me my life Dave they didn't like when I said that honestly what it is true honestly I'm thinking

I'm thinking when I asked you the question what do you think made it change I was trying to think of myself because I couldn't pinpoint anything that was it yeah constant I gave you your life, and I was like you stuck in Boston without me mother through my head was the When we did fucking with the Kanye with the other cool club cool club how much how the tables turned on that? We were cool club going to the Going to Kanye And like two months later

He's in the club Fucking The Mr. Club Dave Anti-Semitic piece of shit Yeah but I mean That was like Who are these guys Going out in New York City

And then next thing you know You're You know Well you did the blog And you had the fucking I think you did it Like Microsoft Paint Like we used to

What they'd be Yeah Yeah Yeah Ticket taker at the museum Yeah Yeah Yeah I remember being like I was like off paint like we used to. What they'd be doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a ticket taker at the museum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know?

Yeah. I remember being like, I was like, these are funny, but God damn it, shut the fuck up. Yeah, I went through each person. I'm like, this is what they'd be doing if it wasn't for me. I had Louis Scam Artist. That's what I had on the fucking thing. You know what you should do? Well, I guess some of these guys are successful in their own right.

Run back that blog for the dinner game. I don't even know. Oh, for the dinner. Yeah, what would Brandon Walker be doing? Brandon Walker, for sure. He'd be in trouble. Brandon Walker was going nowhere fast. That is a fact.

The other is, I mean, Hank, the same. Who else? I mean, K will probably be successful. And Will will play the NFL. Yeah, Walker is the same. Who else? I mean, K will probably be successful. And Will has played the NFL. Yeah, Walker's the one that. Just totally disrespectful. All right, you've got to get on this call, right? To, like, tell the.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are you doing? You're just telling people. I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks, man.

Yep. Thank you.チャンネル登録よろしくお願いします