Khloé in Wonder Land - Do it for Love ft. Laura Wasser

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Khloé sits down with the Kardashian family’s go-to family law attorney, Laura Wasser, as she spills on love, prenups and breakups.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Do you ever not believe in love? I still believe in love. I just believe that there's dicks out there. I have times with Tristan, I want to fucking murder him, but my children would never know that. And that is what I think being a responsible adult is. I think you're always known for your style and your fashion. I definitely don't dress or work out to get a picture taken of me.

So let's do it to get laid. Let's do it to get laid. Let's do it to get laid. Welcome to Chloe and Wonderland. This is the podcast for real and raw conversations that you won't wanna miss. Sweet! Nice work.

What's up, Chloe? I know how to read. Good. I know how to read. I feel it myself. I'm a little bit of a kid. So I'm so excited to have you here. Laura Wasser, you have been, I feel like, every one of my siblings, divorce lawyer or family law lawyer. And your dad, I don't know which parent your dad represented. I think it's my mom or my dad, which I don't know. I think it might have been maybe your dad with your mom,

and then your mom with Bruce. Oh my god. I think. So I'm not sure. Twice. Yes, we're very inter. We're very interconnected, which is amazing. But not only are you the best family law attorney

that there is, but I just feel like when people hear your name, you have this title, the Disso Queen, which I love. Any sort of queen title, but also I just feel like people don't know enough about the softer side. The softer side of you. And I think that people just probably assume that you love divorce. And I don don't know just because you fight for that

But I know you're I know that you're such an advocate for love. Yes, and Yeah, I just feel like I want people to get to know a different side of you. Well, that's why I came I mean, I feel like look you can't be a divorce attorney without having something attributed to you and a lot of people like well You're pit, shark. I don't think that's how I am. I think it's more of a problem solving gene that I have that my dad has as well. And so we want to try to help people. By the time they come to me, they're already getting divorced.

I'm not like a divorce monger. In fact, as you know, there have been circumstances where I've said, don't get divorced. Let's see how this plays out. Let's see if we can work it. We do a lot of prenuptial agreements, which are people getting together and hopefully keeping their relationship communicative and evolving. So yeah, no, it's not just all about divorce and hate

and misery. No, you've been someone for me, like you're always from, even with Lamar, like you've always been someone that's like, let's try to work this out privately, try to work it out before going to court. And in a way, you're almost like a family therapist. Sometimes, I mean, I'm not qualified to be a family therapist, but my main goal is to keep people out of court.

So if you can work it out yourself, as opposed to letting someone who you don't know, who doesn't know you, doesn't know your kids, has a very crowded court docket, lots of people trying to get their attention and get relief. Wouldn't it be better if you guys worked it out? And so we've done that a lot. Yes, we've done that.

I feel like for a bunch of my sisters, we've done that a lot. But I want you to sort of take me back. I know that your dad has been, he was before you, probably, I feel like respectfully you've surpassed him. Oh, I hope he never sees this. Oh my gosh, he's gonna kill me. But we could duke it out in the desert.

But before you, would you say you took over his law firm? Yeah. Yeah. So before you though, he was this incredible lawyer, had a huge name for himself, just like you do. Times were different. We didn't have social media and all of that. But how did you get started? And I also know that your father wasn't that keen

on having you join the family business. If you could sort of tell that story. So my dad, first of all, I didn't want to join the family business. Like growing up, my initials are law, Laura Allison Wasser, which I always thought was so lame, and I was like, oh god, and I fought it. But anyway, when I was in my 40s,

I kind of embraced it and said no. I love it. Monograms and everything. But I didn't think I was gonna be a lawyer, and I certainly did not think I was gonna be a family law attorney. And then in my second year of law school, I got married, I was young, I was 25.

And then after my third year, I graduated and took the bar. And my husband at the time and I looked at each other and they're like, what were we thinking? I mean, we had a great wedding. It was like 200 people at the Bel Air Hotel and 10 bridesmaids, 10 groomsmen. I mean, I do, I love love. I mean, I love a good wedding.

It was gorgeous. But we were like, this is probably, this probably wasn't a great idea. So I went to my dad and I was like, Look, we're gonna split up. He's like, no more weddings, I will not pay for another wedding. And I was like, okay, so I've never had another wedding. But I also said, I, you know, I'm paying the rent on this house in Laurel Canyon, and I have a dog and I have a car payment. Can I come work for

you, dad, while I rate wait for my results from the bar exam and get a real job? And he's like, no. No nepotism. No nepotism. And I'm like, dad, please. I'm working for a nonprofit right now. I need help.

Please let me. And he's like, fine. You can work here while you wait for your results. Well, I worked there. And I was really good at it. And I liked it. And because I grew up in LA, and I knew a lot of people at the time that were like working assistants desks

at the agencies, they were young lawyers at the entertainment law firms, business managers, kids of people who were in the industry. I had clients and so he was like, my partner said if you wanna stay, you can stay. And I still was like, I don't wanna. Yeah, so I worked there. They were so much harder on me than they were

on anybody else. But I really started to like it because, like I said, I like the idea of problem solving. And I can usually now, and even then a little bit, see what the pressure points were, who cared more about custody, who cared more about money, what the fears are. And it's interesting, 30 years that I've been doing this now,

it doesn't matter how much money you have and it doesn't matter how famous you are, what the fears are. And it's interesting, 30 years that I've been doing this now, it doesn't matter how much money you have and it doesn't matter how famous you are, what your occupation is, people have the same fears and anxieties. You know, who am I gonna spend my summer vacation with? Are my kids gonna be okay when they're at his house? He's never put them to bed or bathed them.

What if she starts dating somebody else that makes more money than me and my kids fall in love with him more than me? All of these things are the concerns people have. And so you get to know those things and then you adjust them to whatever makes sense. Who's gonna go to the Labor Day Company picnic with me or who's gonna walk the red carpet at the Oscars with me?

Whatever it is, that's your level of anxiety and trying to kind of get people through that, figure out the numbers. The law is not that complicated. So you don't have to be a rocket scientist to do what I do, but you have to kind of be able to figure out how to explain it to people and let them make decisions about what's going to make the most sense for them, as I said,

without going to court, which is key. And I also think one of your strong traits is you explain things to people in English. Yes, in a way that people actually understand what you're saying and you don't overwhelm them with big words and lawyer lingo that someone's like, okay, and you just sort of say yes to say yes. And that is such an amazing attribute to have. But then also that you speak English to it. Yes. I'm like, oh, okay, I understand that. Wasn't Stevie Wonder one of your first big cases? He was one of my first.

He was a client that was my dad's. And then he has a lot of kids. So whatever one of the new ones was, my dad, I had known him since I was younger. And he said, why don't I work with Laura? So my dad said, fine. And then there was a very big case where he had been living with somebody for a long time

and they were kind of extricating. So we did that case. And then I just started doing all of Stevie's stuff and he's actually become a friend. Like he is a very, very dear friend. And, but yeah, that was, again, when I started in 1994, there wasn't a 24 hour news cycle, forget social media. There just wasn't things on the news all the time.

And as I think we've discussed before, in California, divorces are public. So the minute you file something, TMZ, which there wasn't even TMZ back then, but it's all over it. It's just, it's public knowledge. So we try to do things quietly, but that is the reason why so many people know

who our firm represents, whether we like it or not. Right. And I think that's the misconception. I think people, not with your firm, just in general, people think that all these celebrities are pushing things out to the media, where most of these things, people would love to go under the radar. But I don't know who TMZ has on their payroll.

But somehow they find out anything and everything. Yes. So for your divorce that you had, do you have any kids with that marriage? No. No kids. But you have two kids by two different dads. Correct. And was that something that was methodically done while you didn't get married to any of

them? No. But once you've been married once before and you've had this beautiful wedding and all that, I know I'll never look better in wedding photos than I did when I was 25. But, you know, both of the dads of both of my kids and I were kind of like, do we want to do this? Do we need this? Like, we're very committed. We're going to be committed to being co-parents. I don't know if I can promise until death do us part,

I can promise I'm always gonna co-parent with you. And so we kind of left it at that. And so particularly with my older son's dad, that really worked for us. We were both attorneys, we both were from LA, had family here. And then with my younger son's dad, it wasn't calculated not to get married,

but it was definitely calculated not to get married, but it was definitely calculated to have another kid so that Luke had a sibling. And that sibling also has an older sister. So there were really three of them and they were all five years apart. So Alix at the time was 10, Luke was five and then Jack was one.

So that was kind of how we raised our kids. And so it worked. And how I know, and you know I know, because you do it too, that you can coexist peacefully, lovingly, respectfully with another parent that's not living in the same house with you is because we do it. We have their backs.

We take care of them if things are going wrong. Everybody does birthday parties together. I mean, your family's birthday parties are a little different than my family's birthday parties. But everybody's welcome. And I think that's so important as a family, to a kid to see that, to always see parents that are getting along.

And I think it's important for us as moms. I mean, we have this village, like this tribe of people, women and men, who are there to kind of help us and fill in the blanks if we need it. And that's huge for us and for our kids. Don't you agree?

Oh my gosh, it's major. And I had a great example. My mom and my dad got along really well. And even if they weren't getting along, we never knew otherwise. And that is what I think being a responsible adult is and protecting your children and not lying to them in any way, but having them see that you can coexist and co-parent. And also not putting that on them.

Letting them know, like whatever feelings I might have about your dad, I love him because he's my family and he's your family. So we're going to work this out. I agree completely. My parents divorced when I was 16. And they did it that way too. Super civilly.

They both married other people, and then my mom passed away in 2019. But they were, and the morning that she died, we were at her house in Malibu with her husband, my dad, my ex, who was Luke's dad, and then my, at the time, current boyfriend. Like, everybody was there around her when she went. And it was, again, another example

of in those clinic clinch times, the people that are important to you are there. That's how it was when my dad died. I don't know if it was the day of, but the week that he was dying, he was on hospice. Bruce came to say, have a conversation with him, and he said, bye, as my mom did. Yes, everyone.

And it's so crazy how parallel our families are, but that's also why I think we just get each other so much with that. I agree. I agree. An interesting story that another example of how you're such a crusader for love that I actually, I remember of course, but I didn't think of it when I was like, oh, I'm going to sit down with you today. But either you told my producers or something like that is the story

about Lamar when he was in his coma. Yes. And Lamar fell into a coma. And I was trying to get a divorce for like a year and a half or two years, something like that. And I don't remember either. He wouldn't sign. He signed. He signed right before the coma. And so we were able to get all the paperwork done. And this is back in the day where you would actually

go down to court and file paperwork. And so a lot of the people that worked at Los Angeles Superior Court kind of knew me from being around probably when I was a kid, I would go with my dad, but you know, it's the same people going in. So I had taken the paperwork down to the court a couple days before and I was like,

oh, finally I got this done for Chloe, this is great, whatever. Even I wouldn't be able to make any medical decisions for him if I wasn't married to him. So you called me and you said, oh my God, Lamar's gonna come, we need to stop the paperwork. I'm like, stop the paperwork, it's in the system.

Yes, you're like, it's on the judge's desk, I think is what you said. So I fly down to Los Angeles Superior Court. And you know me a little bit. Back in the day, I would try to dress up like a lawyer and wear my little suits and whatever. But when I wasn't being a lawyer, I was wearing something usually totally different, which is what I was wearing that day.

And I go down to court, and I flag the woman down. And I go down to court and I flag the woman down and I'm like, hey, you knew me. I dropped a judgment off a couple days ago and I need to pull it back. And she's like, there's no pulling it back. And I was like, no, no, no, you don't understand. I really need to do it. It's for Khloe Kardashian and Lamar Odom.

And she's like, I don't know who that is. And I was like, okay. I go, please, please, for these people, for me. And she's like, I know who you are, but I'm not doing that for you. And then I don't even know. I was like so desperate. I go, what about for love?

And she's like, for love? And I was like, yes, for love. They were in love. She doesn't wanna pull it back. She needs to take care of him. And she's like, for love. And I don't know if she was just thought I was hilarious or she also is a crusader.

For love, she goes, wait here. And she she like I don't know where she went into the bowels of the courthouse. She got it she brought it back it hadn't been signed we've dialed the whole thing back. I remember like running to my car and calling you and being like Chloe I got it I got the judgment back. We did it for love. No and doesn't she tell that like when you see her doesn't she say that too? Sometimes when I'm walking by and again I'm not down there that often because because post covered we do a lot remotely, but she'll be like, for love. Okay, thank you.

Bless you. We did for love. I that that is another example that you are you're not like, no, we're getting divorced. So you're like, yes, let's do it. Yes. For love. Do it for love. Oh, my gosh. I love that. Great slogan. Almost as good as my sweatshirt that says Kim is my lawyer. I have the same one. Let's do it for love. Do it for love. Oh my gosh, I love that. It's a great slogan. It's almost as good as my sweatshirt that says Kim is my lawyer. I have the same one. We all do. Who were some of your mentors and inspirations? Both of my parents. I mean, my dad really taught me so much about not being a lawyer,

being a critical thinker, being somebody that was like, OK, I think there's two sides to every story. And he really, I was in debate in high school and he really taught me kind of how to argue. I was a rhetoric major when I was in college at Cal and I kind of love discourse. I love having a conversation about something and kind of talking things through.

I'm sure anybody I dated would be like, yeah, that's fucking great. And so definitely my dad. And also he kind of showed me without meaning to how to run a business. I mean, I run our firm now and so many mornings he's in the desert, but we text every morning at like 5.30 and he's like, any news? How's the firm?

Whatever. And I'll tell him all of my list of complaints about whoever didn't come in that day and how hard it is to get the millennials working in the office and whatever else. And he's like, yup, you're learning important lessons. And I'm like, bro, you never had any of this kind of stuff. I'm talking about important lessons.

Then my mom, who is like the consummate cheerleader. She was just the greatest, most positive, happy, upbeat, unconditional love, super cool, Bunny Walser. Like most of my friends from elementary school and high school are like, oh my God, Bunny, she raised us. Like mine was the house that everybody went to and we would all eat coffee, ice cream, and the Hadley's trail mix that you pick up

on the way down to Palm Springs. And my parents were really young. Like mom was, I think, 21 when she had me, and my dad was like 23. That was the norm. So they knew what was going on. Like they knew when we came home stoned, whatever. And so they would, I constantly was busted.

I constantly was grounded. Most of my friends' parents were older. So even though we got in trouble more at my house, we would be there more, because it was just kind of a fun place to hang. So, and that's on my mom. And then, you know, other mentors that I've had through the years have been other kind of female family law attorneys,

both those that I knew pretty well, and then those that I didn't know. You know, people who taught me, you know, if you speak slowly and you speak quietly, they have to lean forward to hear you. You don't need to get in there and slam things around and yell like a man would and cuss like a sailor, even though I tend to do that a little bit.

Same. Quietly, confidently, give other people the respect that they're due, and then they will do the same for you. And if they don't, and you're in front of a judge, the judge will be like, Mr. So-and-so, she gave you your turn, now give her hers. That's the kind of stuff. And again, that I'm trying to teach the younger attorneys

at my firm. And when I speak at law schools around the state and stuff like that, I think that's really important. Oh, I love that you speak at law schools. I do. It's fun. It is fun kind of. I mean, sometimes I think I don't realize how old I am.

And then I get there and I see these kids. No, but again, 30 years. 30 years ago, I was sitting where they're sitting. That's a long time. I mean, and so, and I just think about what must be going through their heads, what their concerns are now, and what, you know, are we gonna get a job?

Are we gonna make enough money? Like, thinking about that kind of stuff. I know that there's young women, particularly, but men, too, that are like, I wanna be like Laura Wasser. I want that bag, I want those shoes, I want that car. But what goes into being that, they don't know that until you actually talk to them.

They only see what's on the outside. Right. And do you think, because I know, especially back in the day, women, I don't think there were, I don't know, but I don't believe there was tons of women lawyers. It actually was a girl job. Oh, was it? It was working in-house at, you know,

production studios was kind of a female job because they had more nine to five hours and being family law attorneys was more. So there were. David Schwimmer, you know, from France, his mom was an amazing family law attorney. Oh, really? Yeah, Arlene Coleman Schwimmer.

She was a badass. Oh, that's amazing. There are a couple that are really, you know, that were really good. They did a good job. They were tough and they were very well respected. And unlike some other careers where women were constantly beaten down, I my experience was not I was not really.

I didn't have that much sexual, you know, orientation. You know, people didn't give me that hard of a time. It could have been because I was my dad's daughter. Right. Could have been that I just wasn't that hot. I don't know. But I didn't give me that Harvard time. It could have been because I was my dad's daughter. Right. Could have been that I just wasn't that hot. I don't know. But I didn't get that. Some people give off like, don't fuck with my energy. Yeah.

And so you're one of those like, don't fuck with me. Because you're very hot. I was going to say, I'm sure at these colleges, they're probably like, that's a lawyer? Because you, I love though. Yes, you still are. You're always perfectly, like you represent yourself perfectly great, but you're cool.

Thank you. Like that's, that's I also think what's so like captivating about you is you still have like you're a woman, you know. I have my moments. Yes. Hello. Like all of us. Look at you now.

I love it. I am all for it. Thank you. Speaking of being a woman, I just want to talk about, well, I definitely want to get to your fashion because I love the fashion of Laura. But I want to talk about your morning rituals. It's like, how do you start your morning every day? Well, my dogs wake me up.

I have a pit bull and a lab. And the pit bull, particularly Pablo, is like in my face every day. Yeah. The last one was Raul. They're of Spanish origin. lab and the pit bull, particularly Pablo, is like in my face every day. Pablo the pit bull. Yeah. The last one was Raul. They're of Spanish origin. So anyway, I wake up at like 5.36 and I usually will check my phone, do a little work, have

a cup of coffee, and then either I run or go to Pilates. So five or six days a week I do something physical in the morning because I can have time. I take Pablo for a run so he doesn't drive everybody in the house crazy every morning. Get back, wake up my kid who's still home, Jack 15, make him something for breakfast, start getting ready to go. And if I'm working at home, which is rare,

or in the office, I'll get into the office at like 9.30 or 10. I don't have many more morning rituals. Face stuff and all that I think happens more at night morning rituals, face stuff and all that I think happens more at night, like just the creams and the whatever and the vitamins. I'm like this tinted sunscreen girl, and that's really it. The rest I don't have the energy for.

But it's interesting that you go to your phone or you work right away, because I try to note this hour's. I get up at 4, 30 or 5 every day, but I'm like, note this hour is for me. I up at 4.30 or five every day, but I'm like, no, this hour is for me. I have like coffee or do what I need to do. I feel like if I don't first get rid of whatever, I mean, I have clients that are in Switzerland, I have to respond.

Also, I told you my dad every morning texted me at 5.30. So I wanna text back so that he knows I'm alive and his little girl like made it through the night. So, but yeah, I think just starting out, and if I see it's a long email that I have to write that's something cohesive, I usually will have my coffee first, the run time is for me. I don't answer my phone when I'm running.

It's a good hour where I just can clear my head. I'm not a good meditator, I can't sit still. This is my way of being able to do that. And I'm the same. When I, in my gym time, I try to take that hour and don't touch my phone. I'm like, this is my one hour, where some other people I'm working out with,

they will just stop every five minutes. I'm like, to me, that's so frustrating. Right, and I think it's rude also to whoever's training you. I feel bad about it. Like if I'm, you know, I'm like, I'm so sorry, hold on. No, I agree. So I think you're always known for your polished style and your fashion.

I mean, do you pull from someone for courtroom fashion? No, courtroom fashion is rough. I mean, you want to it's. It is, but you make it look so good. Well, yeah. I'm not good with jackets because I'm small. So they tend to make me look like a fire hydrant. It's just stumpy.

So I like to wear more fitted things. When I started practicing, one of my dad's partners was like, we I like to wear more fitted things. When I started practicing, like one of my dad's partners was like, we don't wear pants at this firm. Women don't wear pants, which is fine, because I'm not a pantsuit person anyway. But also, I have a tattoo on my ankle that I've had since I was in college, and I don't like to wear stockings.

Like it's just so, I would always have bare legs. So that was an issue. He didn't like that my hair was too long and down, and if I didn't like blow it dry, it would be wavy and it was like pre-Giselle, but he was like, who do you think you are? George of the Jungle's wife going in there with this hair, so I would put my hair up in a bun.

I had actually fake glasses that didn't even have a prescription that I'd wear. I mean, it was so, now I can wear what I want, but I still need to be respectful of the judges. So I mean, my basics are like, Aliyah, there's some good Valentino. And by the way, I save up so that I can buy stuff because I love clothes.

Like besides putting my kids through school and making, I have boys so I don't have to spend as much on their clothes but like clothes, I'm a clothes horse. I mean, I love it. I love the shoes. I love Tom Ford. I love being able to dress up. And then literally on the total flip side,

I will have a totally separate, I'm a Gemini, so maybe just the schizophrenia of me, total separate wardrobe for weekends and stuff like that. More of a beach girl hippie, boho, Isabelle Morant, that kind of stuff. Chloe now, this last couple seasons. Well Kim is starring in a TV show that's loosely based off of you.

Loosely. Loosely, we're going to say loosely, loosely. One of my favorite things is all her fashion. I don't know if you've seen it or if she's been sending you finals or anything. I have heard about the fashion. Also, one of the prop masters was like, oh my god. And not just hers.

Yeah, everyone's. Like, Glenn's, Naomi's, everybody is dressed. By the way, I can't wait till the women at my firm see this show, because they're going to be like, what has gone wrong here that we're not dressing like these women? Step it up. No. What I've seen, it's like vintage, Mugler.

It's so chic and incredible. To me, I'd be like, that's the best compliment. You got to glamorize. It's like having gallows humor. You have to dress beautifully if you're going to be doing this kind of law and hearing this much misery day in and day out. I hear the show is amazing.

I can't wait. I hear it's amazing. And you and I both have to go to set for sure. I have a funny story to tell you that I don't think you would mind. Your brother-in-law, Travis, I represented him years ago. And we had a court appearance that was going to be in the office.

A judge was coming in to do the court appearance. We had a private judge. And he said, I don't think I have the right thing to wear. And I said, OK, come in about an hour early in whatever you want, and then we'll figure it out. And you know my office is in Century City, so it's near the mall. And I think at the time, it was like Bullocks.

There was maybe a Bullocks and a Broadway or whatever at that Century City mall. So he came over and he was wearing like a torn shirt, you know, whatever, neck tattoos, piercings. And I was like, okay. And so we walked over to Bullocks and we bought him a suit. I was a Hugo Boss suit. We like got him fitted.

We got the neck, the collar, so it could go up as far as we could. I mean, the judge knew kind of who he was and saw the tattoos. But again, we wanted the judge to know he was willing to be respectful. He's like, you know I'll never wear this again. I said, give it to a charity, but we need to do this.

And he was a really good sport about it, and it was just great. It was kind of like a little brother type of thing that we did. That is so funny. I love that, but that is so him. He will go with the flow. He'll be like, okay, got it.

I know this is my best interest. That is so funny. Let's go to decompressing. Because how you just said this kind of job, you have to dress the part. And you dress good to feel good. That's how I feel. And in the line of work that you're in,

I'm sure it can get really heavy and emotional, or sometimes just like, do you ever not believe in love? And what do you do to decompress at the end of a brutal court day? Well, I mean, first of all, I still believe in love. I just believe that there's dicks out there. I mean, there are definitely people that I'm a. And also keep in mind, and I say this to clients all the time,

a lot of divorce lawyers make money off of other people's conflict. I mean, come on. The longer we keep this going, the more money we're making. So I have to explain to clients, let's us get this resolved before we're paying a lot of money to me and to the other guy. But I still do believe that that's possible to decompress.

I mean, I'm a beach girl. So if it's warm enough, I will jump in the ocean. I will go out to Malibu. I will have a swim or a surf. My kids have always loved the beach, so we'll do that if we can. I'm way more of a warm weather vacation person. I like skiing, but I just, I love being in the sun.

I love being in the sea. I always say, if you take me in the snow, that's a trip. Right. But a vacation is the beach. I totally agree. So that's, yeah. What the fuck? 100%.

I'm not getting bundled up in freezing. Exactly, and then also when you have kids, it's a whole different ski trip. Oh, it's brutal. I mean, there's snot and you're carrying you have kids, it's a whole different ski trip. Oh, it's brutal. I mean, there's snot, and you're carrying everyone's pole. It's a whole different thing. No, and then they're dressed. They're like, I have to go potty.

I'm like, no. No. No. We're not. Hold it. No. We're not. Pee on yourself.

I don't care. But then on a day-to-day basis, I don't know. I'm a big tequila drinker. I mean, I have my moments. And I have a lot of really good friends. I mean, I grew up here. I've got good friends. They know what kind of a job I have. moments, and I have a lot of really good friends. I mean, I grew up here. I've got good friends. They know what kind of a job I have,

and they are actually like really, I have two of my best girlfriends live like one five houses up and one five houses down. And then my other best girlfriend runs my firm. So like we all, yeah, I mean, yeah. So it can actually be fun. And as we're all kind of getting older and our kids are growing up and leaving the nest,

we're like, hey, it's 5.30. Is it wine time? And I'm like, I'm not even home yet. Can you just slow your roll for a minute? No, but I love that. Do you ever have conflict working with your best friend? No, because she runs the firm. So my conflict is she's like, this person didn't pay us.

And I'm like, well, I guess you better get them to pay. She's not a lawyer. That's good. Oh, I love that. I didn't know that. What would you say is your parenting philosophy? How do you handle, you have two boys. Do you try to guide them when it comes to love?

Or do you think that they've seen a lot where that's sort of been their teacher? They've seen a lot. Remember, I'm a Jewish mother. So one day I'm going to be a Jewish mother-in-law. So I try to refrain from comment. I have to say, my little one hasn't kind of dipped his toe in the romance waters yet, it's mostly just a bunch

of little girls that are over giggling and whatever. My older one has a serious girlfriend in Miami and he's brought her home and I love her and she's lovely. And again, if I didn't, I know that the more I said about it, the more it would push him into her arms. So I just sit back. He's 19. I mean, I don't know. I hope this young woman is somebody he knows for a long time,

but I don't know that they're going to get married. And I just kind of watch it all happen, which is what my parents did too. I mean, I think they knew when I got married at 25, that that wasn't going to be the person that I was probably going to be with for the rest of my life. And they just watched it happen, paid all that money for that wedding. We're supportive and we're like, it's all good.

I mean, I think both of my kids have seen enough to know that they probably are going to have prenuptial agreements when they get married, which I don't see anything wrong. I don't either. And I think it's great for them to be like, look, Laura Wazzer is my mom. I got to have a prenup. You're going to be like, OK, you You're gonna protect them until the cows come home. My parents are the same way, they were super chill. I don't think I'm gonna be like that.

And I want to be, I'm always like, what would Kris Jenner do? You're gonna be like your mom. I pray so. You are. I mean, you are, it's hard not to be, frankly. And when you have a mom that you actually respect and you like how she parented you, and then you'll roll your eyes and be like,

oh my God, I'm being like my mom. For better, for worse, you will be like that. I mean, you may be a little bit more protective and I know Courtney's a little different, Kim's a little different, but ultimately you guys are all Chris's kids and you're gonna lead with that. I really do think that.

I hope so, because I'm always like, how did she let go? I know True's six and a half. She hasn't totally let go. You and I and she have had some conversations in the last couple years in the morning. But I love those types of holding on. But when you're 15 and dating someone and you see the car crash about to happen,

I would be like, get the fuck away from this douche. Where my mom was like, it's OK. I don't know what to do. Because you have to learn. It's a vodka. OK, so that's the thing. If I don't know what well cuz you have to learn vodka Like okay So that's the thing if I have one of my good girlfriends her older daughter went to college a couple years ago And she'd never gotten drunk. She was kind of a goody-goody She was kind of a nerd and it was like the summer before she left

She was like at a party and she got drunk and we were like, yes Thank God cuz you don't want them away for their first experience. So you kind of kind of again I've said to them if you have an issue call me I will not be angry or not ask questions you'll get it the next day but you're not gonna get it in the moment I want you to be able to feel comfortable and usually they will if you make them feel that way but it it's hard and I would imagine it'd be harder with girls I have to admit that with my older even though she was not my biological child she was living with us when she was a teen, early 20s.

And yes, there was times when the inside of my mouth had like a big welt on it from biting so much not to say something. No, and I agree. And my mom was the same. She would, in that moment, would not be super brutal to us. The next day, yes, when we were coherent and could understand, we definitely would. You don't want to waste all that anger on somebody who's fucked up.

I need to remember every bit of it. I even have a girlfriend that can't afford in her head to get a divorce. She thinks she has to go and get this crazy expensive lawyer and she can't do it. But my mom was telling me about this website that you have and you can talk about it. So yes, it started in 2018 and it was called It's Over Easy. Then we were acquired in 22 by a company called Divorce.com. And I am still their chief of divorce evolution, whatever that means. I'm just the face of it in some ways. Divorce.com, I know people that you know who are using it,

and you go online, you give them your information, they'll find you a mediator if need be, a lawyer if need be. It is so much less expensive than my ridiculously high hourly rate. They will help you through it, they will explain it to you. We are so lucky that in this day and age, although we might not love the social media

and the 24-hour news cycle and the TMZ of it all, we have access to so much information online and services like this where you don't have to pay, it's like $2,500 or something for a full divorce and you get the knowledge and because you're getting the knowledge and you're learning, you have the sense of empowerment of being the master of your own universe because you and your spouse are working it out together.

And so I think it's great, I'm a huge fan of theirs. And then there's another company that I'm an advisor all called Hello Preenup, which is amazing. Online prenup, so you and your fiance talk about it. And you cannot get a prenup that's enforceable in this country pretty much, for sure in California, but almost every state necessitates you having two lawyers. So in the past, it was very difficult to do something

like this on your own. Now you can work the whole thing out. And with HelloPrinup, they'll assign attorneys to you to kind of look it over, help you make sure it's good, and bless it and sign it. So now you've got the attorneys, and it's not super expensive. And I do think it's so also that same sense of empowerment that you have with the divorce that you're doing on your own.

If you're doing the prenup, you're really having the conversations that you know are important to have before you kind of cast your life with somebody and then have kids with them and are like stuck with them for this long period of time. If you can't have those kind of conversations, then you're in trouble. Right.

And you shouldn't be getting married. Correct. Right. I remember I had like getting married. Correct. Right. I remember I had like no money when I met Lamar. We actually had the same business manager. And they were like, oh, you need to sign a prenup. And I was like, what's a prenup? And then when I was presented with it,

I was like offended at first. And then I was like, wait, I'm not offended by this. Once it was explained to me, I really understood what was going on. I was like, oh, OK, sure. Let's sign it. It benefited him at the time. And in the end? In the end, it actually benefited me. Yes.

Because our financial situations shifted, and so not that it benefited, I was protected. And I think people don't realize that it's not about give me, give me, get me, get me. It's really just about protecting your own assets. And you don't know what's gonna happen during that union. Or I didn't know, I had no money when I married him, and then I ended up having more money at the end from my career taking off and all that stuff. So it was, even if you're offended, you can be offended, be in your feelings,

but it's really the best protection for both. And having the conversations about being offended, or well, wouldn't I resent you if we went for this whole period of time and I thought for whatever reason that we were just staying married because you were in it for the money, or because you this or that. Having that communication, I think, before you get married,

I mean, a lot of religions make you kind of have some counseling with a priest or a rabbi or whatever. This is that next step. And people don't realize that when you get married, that's a contract. They're like, I don't want a contract to define my marriage. Bro, this is that next step. And people don't realize that when you get married, that's a contract. They're like, I don't want a contract to define my marriage. Bro, you're having a contract. And you better know what the terms are

and you better be cool with them because if you're not, restructure them. I think prenups are so important and that's amazing. What's it called? You said? Hello prenup and divorce.com. My mom was raving about divorce.com. I'm like, okay, you gotta calm down.

And my mom also wanted, I don't know if you know the stats. My mom was asking, what do you think the statistics are for the divorce rate now? I think they've been hovering around 50% for a long time. We were one of the first states in California to have what's called no fault divorce. That's when you just check the box that says irreconcilable differences. It it's not working, no question.

New York was one of the last states to switch over to no fault. And before it was no fault, you actually had to say something that the other person did. If it was fraud or, you know, I think it was like cruelty or whatever. So now you're starting out of the gate

with some like massive, and you have to be able to prove that that's the point. And then you're going into court and you're saying he did this and she did this. And remember like in the old movies where somebody would bust into a hotel room and the woman's holding the sheet up and they're taking pictures of the flash. Adultery was one of the one of the grounds for divorce. As we know, if you have to particularly parents but people where it's not working for whatever reason, whether there's terrible domestic violence or just like, hey, we're not evolving

and growing as people. We've been raised in our culture and in our generations to think, okay, you cut your losses and you move on and you part friends and if you have kids, you raise them. But imagine now being in a situation where you have to stay in that marriage. That terrifies me more than just the fact that I would,

also divorce lawyers would make so much more money because everybody would just be churning up fault. That scares me too. What would you say are some really important conversations that couples should have before they get married? Money conversations. I think we are so uncomfortable speaking about money, particularly women, and we kind of avoid

it at all costs. We don't want to. And I don't know about you. I've been in relationships before with men who made less than I did, and it was always very uncomfortable. We don't want to emasculate them. If we're gonna go out with another couple, we give them the credit card so they pay so it doesn't look like we're paying. If we're taking a vacation or if we're with our kids, you know, doing things that aren't going to hurt anybody's feelings, where if the gender roles were reversed, you probably wouldn't do that. It's not weird for a guy to pay for dinner for everybody or whatever. I think having conversations about money is so important, not only if you make more than

the guy, but hey, this is what I'm thinking in terms of what I wanna put aside every year for retirement. Or hey, my parents are older and I don't ever wanna put them in a home. I want them to come live with us. So if we're gonna buy a house, let's buy somewhere that has an adjacent guest house. Or hey, how much student loan do you have before we get married?

These are things that I think people don't like to talk about and it's not sexy and it's not fun, but they're super important. Hey, I was thinking after we have kids, I probably don't wanna go back to work for a while. How do you feel about that? Because I can't tell you how many guys come into me and go, she never went back to work. I married her, she was a business manager,

she did, and now she didn't go back to work. And I was like, well, did that never come up? Now sometimes it comes up, and then once you have this angel baby, you don't wanna leave and go back to work. I get that, but at once you have this angel baby, you don't want to leave and go back to work. I get that. But at least you've had that conversation. What's interesting is, because I've never done this,

thinking that far ahead about your parents or things like that. Because when you do get married, you intend for it to be forever. I've had the conversations about money or where are we living right now or those things, but never that far ahead. And that seems so silly.

How about even just you? Well, you're not as old as I am, but I don't ever want my kids to be in a situation where they have to pay for me. I always wanna have enough money, whatever medical care, whatever's happening. So, and again, people don't like to do estate plans either because you have to really look at your mortality.

When I die, what am I leaving who? Who's gonna have the healthcare? I love an estate plan. Yeah, okay, well. I love an estate plan. That's weird. But again, it's good. But this is like another thing, an estate plan for your estate when you are alive and having that conversation I think is important and really thinking that far out. I don't know if this is how you feel, but because you've lost your mother, I've lost my dad. I think all of these things estate planning, wills, all of that matter so

much to me and my siblings because of the things that weren't taken care of when my father passed away. I don't know how your mom was but it just and you're a lawyer. But my dad had he didn't practice law at that time but he was still a lawyer and I we were just like huh. Like I know He died really quickly. He died in five weeks of diagnosis. So it was definitely, I don't think, but we still were all surprised that more estate planning didn't happen. I think it's different these days.

I think we talk about it more these days than we did back in those days. I also have noticed among my male clients, they have a bigger problem facing their possible mortality. They will go to doctors. And I didn't know your dad well, but what I know of him, I can imagine him being like my dad,

I'm gonna live forever. We're signing a new lease right now on our space and our firm, and it's a 10 year lease. And so my dad's like, well, haven't you consulted me? And I don't wanna be a bitch, but I'm like, he's like, cause I'm still gonna be here in 10 years I'm like you're 83 and I hope he's

still here in ten years but you know so yeah I think they don't like to face their mortality and that's why they're not as good about planning for things I am meticulous I am you know also I don't know why but I have this kind of depression era mentality and I'm just sure something terrible is gonna happen I'm not like oh if I get sick I'm like when I get sick so I'm and I'll get I'm a single mom so you going to happen. I'm not like, oh, if I get sick, I'm like, when I get sick. So I'm again, I'm a single mom. So you're constantly thinking what would happen if what would happen if I've got letters that I write to my kids every year, like when you open this, I'm, I'm

ready. I'm ready for that plane to go down. Can't my God. Well, don't say that. But Kimberly does that. She writes. I think it's every one of her kids birthdays. She writes them each a handwritten letter. I don't do that, I need to do that because I would give anything when my dad died if I had letters that he wrote me.

Like I have nothing of his. I'm like, well, I need something. So what Kim does and what you do, I think that's so beautiful. What made you get into that? Because my mom did that. I still have a letter that my mom, my mom, even when I was in my early 50s,

my mom would write and she also was, she cut out a lot of newspaper articles. I mean obviously the ones of me, but she would cut out other things that were just of interest and she would still mail them to me from Malibu. I'm like, mom, I'm gonna see you before, but like and then say like, I'm so proud of you,

love mama or I thought this made me think of you. And you know Nicole Avant, right? So her mom and my mom were very good friends. And her mom would cut out all the magazine or newspaper articles about me, Jackie, and my mom would cut out all of the articles about Nicole. And they would send them to us. I love that. So I would call Nicole and I'd be like, yo, did you get an article about me?

And she'd get a packet of stuff. Oh my gosh, I love that. I want to be better. It gets easier as they get older and they don't need you so much. And then you're home by yourself and nobody's paying attention to you. And you can write them a letter.

Alexa just had a baby, my assistant. She's five months. And at that beginning, you're like, god, can they get older? So we can do things. And then as soon as that milestone passes, you're sobbing. And then after, I think, two years old, it just goes so fast. So fast.

Because the stages stop. But it's so fun when they start talking to you. I mean, it's just, it really, it's a great ride. Like, even my 19-year-old, like, he's three hours ahead. So every morning after I text my dad, then I text my son. Like, good morning, Luke. And like, probably four out of five days a week, he'll write back and be like, good morning, my mama.

Sometimes he'll call, like, when he's on his Sometimes he'll call like when he's on his way. It's always when he's on his way somewhere. But it's like a check-in. If you've seen those Instagram things, all the athletes as they're coming out of the thing and they're like, how often do you call your mom? And they're like, every day, every day, twice a day, whatever, I want my kids to be those kids.

And they will be. Yeah, well some, I'm like, sometimes like once a month, like I see those dickheads. But those guys always feel bad and all of the other teammates are like, bro, you suck. Right, they're all like, what's wrong with you? And I love that they sort of shame the one, it's like, I never do.

We're gonna wrap this up with one of your iconic quotes. I don't dress or work out so people will take a picture of me. I do it because I hope I'm going to get laid. I said that? That's, yes. At least it's quoted. I believe everything that's on the internet. I know, I don going to get laid. I said that? That's, yes. At least it's quoted. I believe everything that's on the internet.

I know, I don't remember seeing that. I definitely don't dress or work out to get a picture taken of me. So let's do it to get laid. Let's do it to get laid. Let's do it to get laid. Listen, I work out to get laid. I'm like, someone's gonna see this naked one day

and it has to look good one day. Have you ever heard that thing that people are saying, like take naked pictures of yourself right now? Because as much as you might hate them in 10 years, you'll be like, oh, it's hot. My mom tells me that. OK, wow. I'm like, are you OK?

Can you stop? She's always like, you're never going to look as good as you look right now. It's true. She'll tell me that. She's like, wear a bikini. It could be snowing. Just wear a bikini. I'm like, I love you, mom.

Well, tell Chris I'm wearing the bikini still. No one, I'm not getting laid still wearing a bikini. Neither am I, but we're going to wear that bikini. Just say a prayer. Well, thank you for coming on. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Love you too, honey.

Oh my gosh, thank you.