Khloé in Wonder Land - Khloé, Jen Atkin & the Stories You’ve Never Heard

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Khloé sits down with her longtime friend Jen Atkin, for a conversation that’s equal parts unhinged and heartfelt. From early glam chaos and nonstop travel to building OUAI, surviving loss, and figuring out faith, motherhood, and adulthood in real time — nothing is off limits. There are hangovers, hair trauma, Barbie Birkin, club culture nostalgia, and a reminder that peace really does begin with you.Episode Sponsors:We’ve worked out a special offer for my audience! Receive 30% off your first subscription order. Go to https://www.armra.com/KHLOE or enter KHLOE to get 30% off your first subscription order.No gimmicks. No fads. This is your sign to join https://www.weightwatchers.com today. Use code KHLOE for an extra 20% off your first month of membership.Level up and add protein to your Starbucks favorite drink. And of course…you can order now on the app.Take the guesswork out of your dog's well-being. Go to https://www.ollie.com/wonderland and use code wonderland to get 60% off your first box!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

They always say like your hairstylist is like your therapist. What are you looking at on this side of my face? Well, you have one piece of hair that's driving me nuts. Can I just fake this? Jen, I've known you for decades at this point. You're so talented. How did you even know you can do the things you do? I studied people. So you don't have a license and I've let you cut my hair?

How we never talked about this? You guys were the first to ever, ever, ever shout out your glam team. Because no one would even acknowledge that this is like hours and hours of a facade. I didn't really drink until I was much old. Then I discovered gay men. Is this too short? Can you see my vagina? Jen was one of the people who lost her home

in the Palisades Fire. You offered for us to come and stay at your house. Okay, well, that was ridiculous. You were that worried about me. Find a friend that can just dish it and take it because it is just the best. How long is this? As for a fucking long, if it's good, peace begins with me.

Peace begins with me. I love you. Okay, I love you. That's it. Can I go home? Yeah. Okay. Oh, good.

Sorry. But I'm so happy to be here. How fun is this? No, I fucking hate podcasts, but I'm so happy to be here. How fun is this? We get to be together. Well, I'm so happy to have you on Chloe and Wonderland. Chloe, this is what it takes to see you.

I know. Or drunken behavior on Saturday night. Should we just make this episode about all the things that happen at your mom's birthday party? We really should. So just so for context, I know. know this is going to air in January, but we are taking this. We're still drunk. Our mom, my mom's birthday was, our mom's birthday was two days ago. She'll adopt you. So we're both older and we're still paying the price of. I'm going to tell you. I was, okay,

it was Saturday night. We're shooting this on Monday. I slept 10 hours yesterday. I had to get an IV drip. It was a night of all nights. But you know what? Her Gatsby party was her 60th. Yeah, you were there. No, but do you remember that party? Do you remember you at that party? Okay, well, let me. You remember you on stage? I was fucked up at that party.

I still love the video that's online where me and Courtney are fighting over the cane in the background of who was singing, Charlie Wilson and Kanye and we're fighting in the background. No, you just went on stage and you were like trying to take the mic from Charlie Wilson. I know. It was a time. Well, I was very, very drunk. Yeah. And that's because I was in the hospital with Lamar.

for like months and it was my first time free. Was that staff infection time? Yeah, that was, thank you. Oh my God. Well, a lot of gems you're dropping. Yeah, no, no, no, no, it's been a life. Well, point is, Jen Atkin, I've known you for decades at this point. I mean, years and years. And so, thank you for gracing us with your presence on the pod. So the first time I worked with you was November 1st. No, it wasn't. 12. November for, how did you pull that date? Because I was just reminiscing and I was trying to remember. remember like all the life. But you remember the first time I met you? I do. You were just telling me how bad your memory is. It was on an airplane and you were going to Miami to do Kim's hair for a Cosmo shoot and I was on

the plane traveling too. Yes. And you had your glam squad with you, right? I don't remember. I just remember. I remember being in business class and being excited about it, but I remember seeing you and I, I just need ever to understand you weren't that famous then. You were pseudo famous. Okay. Like I knew you when you were like broke. Yeah, you did. But I met you on that People magazine shoot that I forgot I did. Remember I, when you guys were the single ladies? What, oh my God. I don't remember that. And I did court. Oh, you did court? I don't remember that. But I remember the single lady shoot. Why? And the Cosmo shoot, okay. Can I finish telling the story now? So the Cosmo shoot, I was there to do Kim, who I didn't know. Yeah. And I felt like, I don't even know what got me there. I don't even know if I was like,

I was maybe doing Sophia Vergara at the time. And so my agent was like, there's this Cosmo Shoot. You have to like go in and out. And then we met and I just like loved you. And I really didn't even know you. But I was like, this bitch is funny. No, you and I together. And we connected. Yeah. And then you wrote me the sweetest note. Do you remember that? No. I have it. No, you don't. But you wrote me the sweetest note. And you were like, I'm doing this thing called X Factor. I'm going to be like my first hosting job. And I would be So honored. You said something very, you were so sweet. You really were putting it on. I used to be so sweet. And then my life, you know, got ruined. Yeah, it did. Well, speaking of your life getting ruined. No. I do, I know you've told your story about, but I do think it's interesting to people because

you're from Utah. Well, you're from Hawaii, but then you are from Utah, really. How did a Mormon girl from Utah end up in California doing the job that you do? Okay, so I grew up very religious, but my parents were kind of cool. Like, we'd watch S&L and South Park. So you were allowed to have sex before marriage. No, no, no, no. Are you kidding me? No. I didn't really drink until I was much older. It's crazy. Like, I didn't drink in high school. No, one partied. It was very like Ozzie and Harriet. Like, I don't know, little house in the prairie. Like, we did not party. Not what your photos show. Well, then. Okay. I've discovered gay men. Yeah. And drugs. No, I'm just kidding. So I grew up kind of conservative and we were very like when I think about the Mormon church, I left it at 19 to come to L.A. with my best friend. But when I think about it, it gave me such strong morals. Like I really grew up doing volunteer service. You're constantly working on like yourself and your goals and you're just trying to like put good into the world. So I do appreciate

that part of it. And I left the church. I left like a boyfriend I was supposed to get married to, had $300 in a Honda Civic catchback and came to LA with my best friend. We slept on couches. And I worked at a salon just to kind of like, I knew I wanted to do something creative. And I really, like, in high school, would cut my own hair and cut my friend's hair. And I just didn't even know it could, like, actually be a career. But I was like, that's the only thing I really know how to do. And so I started out as a receptionist, a salon manager. Weirdly, like Chris McMillan was like a really big deal. He had done like Jennifer Aniston's haircut. He was like the household name. Yeah. But there were no women for me to

really like look up to. Like Sally Hirshberger had a really big career and I'd like read about her in magazines. But I came here in 2000. So oh my God, it's so long ago. That's crazy. Almost 26 years ago. Like pre social media, you'd have to go in a lore magazine to like see what the cool salons were to go to. Right. So I would do that and I would walk to those salons and try to get a job. And they were like, you're such a loser. Get out of here. People don't do that. And you're. No. No. But call me a loser. Yeah. Yeah, they do. But I really just wanted to learn about the business of hair. And so I worked as a manager. I saw all these amazing creative stylist who, oh my God, and at the time I got to like feed Bet Midler's meter and like Winona Ryder would come in.

Feed Bet Midler's meter. He would come in. I met Jessica Alba back then. And I was like, just a kid knew no one here. And I was like, if this is all I do, I'm done. This is amazing. And I'll go back to Utah and just live with my parents. And then I realized, like, so many of these creatives were not super responsible with their money. That was the time of, like, I don't know, L.A. was just bustling, and it was so fun to go out. And so I honestly, growing up, I never, like, knew a Jewish person. I never knew, like, a black person. I never knew a gay person. It's very, very, like, a little bubble. Yeah. So when I came to L.A., I was like, oh, my God, I learned so much about, just people and cultures and art and music. And like I really feel like I got to like wake up and was

like in my own skin finally. Like I got to just like lose the judgment of other people and just really like dive into L.A. It's gone by so fast. I remember getting book to like assist people in the salon and that was like so exciting to me. I got I couldn't afford hair school. I couldn't afford. I was going to say how did you like you're so talented. How did you even know you can do the things do? Well, I wasn't talented. I studied people. I, like, sat there and watched every salon, like, hair cutter and all the colorists. I had to watch everybody to see how they work. So you don't have a license and I've let you cut my hair? This whole time. Right. No, so I, you're going to love this story. I'm scared. How we never talked about this? I just assumed you, like, went to school.

I thought that you'd ask me any questions about myself over 13 years, and this is the first time. I'm, like, terrified. So I couldn't afford hair school. So I did an apprenticeship program. at like an adult occupational center downtown L.A. You don't know what that is. But it's like, you go there and get like a license to be like a plumber and they had a cosmetology program. Okay. So I would go and work in the salon three days a week. I would go to school the other days and then I would work at night as a hostess at Luna Park, right? What happened to you? You don't have any energy now. Oh my God. It's so fun. Sorry. We're never going to get through this podcast.

So I would, let's see, what did I do? I went to this hair school, adult occupational center, and I got my license that way by like apprenticing. So I did get my license. Oh, good. And then I started assisting really great stylist on set. And then I got booked to do all the dancers on Madonna's tour. And so that was my first.

Well, that's like a major first. Yeah. That was the first time. I was 26 and I got to go all over the world. But what did your parents think? Because your parents are Mormon. still in Utah. And what did they think when their daughter is now leaving to go to scary California? I mean, so scared. Now as a mom, I can't believe they let me go.

Were they mad that you stopped Mormonism? Yes. I mean, it's a whole thing. Like, did you ever have Mormon friends? No, I've learned about being Mormon really on Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. I don't know much about it. No. I mean, I know when you would joke about Mormon stuff and like, yeah. play, but that would really be it. I never had a lot of Mormon friends. You never did. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, this is the thing. The Mormon Church teaches you that if you're not like obedient and, and worthy of like your temple recommend, which means like, there's a lot of rules that you will not live with your family for all time and eternity in the celestial

kingdom. Oh, yeah. That's scary. So there's a little bit of pressure. Yeah. So, you know, they were like scared for sure. I think they thought I was going to either be like a drug addict or like a prostitute and they didn't understand that like the world isn't as scary as we think it is. I mean, it is now, but back then it was fun. No, seriously. Yeah, they were like, I think they were also really proud of me. I've always had, I'm similar to you. Like, our dads were very similar and like we had to sign contracts very young.

I always joke. I was like paying a mortgage by the time I was 12. Like I always had a job. I always had a purpose. I was always taught that, you know, the world didn't owe me anything that I needed to work the things that I really wanted. And I hated my parents for that at times because I didn't get the cute cars that my friends got. And, you know, it was hard in high school. But as an adult, like, I am so grateful for it. I feel the same. All the things that my dad was so strict about were like the

bougie things. Like, no, we didn't, like, all of our friends had like credit cards or like allowances. And my dad was like, an allowance for what? Go get a job. And that's your allowance. Like, and I didn't understand it then I love that he did that for us like we had to work all the time and I loved it I also think like don't you think you've been working forever yeah like I have been working since I was 16 15 but it teaches you so much so much and I felt like adulthood didn't shock me I didn't feel like yeah I felt like oh this is just my next step this is my next purpose this is my next thing to do and um I mean but Chloe honestly we work so hard and we've worked so hard and we've worked so hard for so long that like it's been a long time it's been a long time but also it's the only way to like get

all of these amazing like blessings in your life and totally yeah at the time like there weren't celebrity lines like there weren't like it was still like loriel and revlon do you know what i mean there's just like the big powerhouse companies and then you branch out and you have the idea i'm going to start my own hair product line like what gave you that confidence to do you? that. I think like, besides me. Well, it was you. I was the hands and you were the loud mouth. That's why I have a career. I feel like, um, we were all just in this moment of Instagram just kind of peaking. Because I met you in 2012 and that's when Instagram came out. That's what I mean. Like you weren't, like, you were famous, but you weren't like famous, famous. What year did you start the show? Oh, seven. Oh,

shoot. You were more famous than I think you were. It's okay. I don't care. Well, I, you've never seen me for me. I've always just seen you for you. Okay, you guys know this about me. I'm a creature of habit. I love my routines. I love my rituals. And nothing makes me happier than starting my day with my Starbucks moment. And going into the new year, I've been leveling up my order with something I'm actually obsessed with.

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Use Code Chloe for an extra 20% off your first month of membership. That's an extra 20% off your first month at Weightwatchers.com with code Chloe. Offer applies to select plans, restrictions apply, Offer ends May 31st, 2026. 2012, Instagram had just come out, and I feel like we were all kind of in this moment of learning how to, like, use it for business and not just... Well, and at first, it definitely was like a Tumblr page. No one had it. There was no influencers. There was no aesthetic pages. You just posted, like, your cup. You posted this, not you. Anyone would post the strangest of things. Yeah. Or we would post, like, being at the beach on set and office for the day. Like so stupid. I think that part of me felt like, oh my God, I've always loved marketing.

Like always. I've just been obsessed with the way that like branding looks. I love like I'm such a pop culture junkie that I remember like what Hello Kitty made me feel like. I remember like the gap back in the day. I remember just like I loved branding. And so I felt at the time like I had no idea I was going to have a line. I mean, I started thinking of the idea in 2014 when I was. was really working with you. I don't even know if you remember this. We were on set and we,

I think you were doing interviews and I had a call with that team, I think like I was pitching them the idea of a digitally connected hair care brand and I was so excited about it. And like, it's going to be the first of its kind where you really are talking to your customers and like it hadn't happened yet. Glossier had launched that same year. And I was like, I just think it'd be a really good idea. And I remember being on the phone with him and you were. were telling me to hang up because he told me that's a great idea you're not famous enough and it's not going to work call us back in five years see fuck you rip and literally like we beat them like we were on the same shelf within three years uh that they were and like we beat them in sales in probably five years

but i remember you telling me you were like hang up the fucking phone well yeah i don't let people talk to us like that yeah sorry but that really put fuel like In my tank, I was like, I'm going to prove them wrong. And I felt like we were all in a position where, I mean, you guys, I say it all the time. And I won't cry talking about it. But like you guys were the first to ever, ever, ever shout out your glam team. Yes. We always get told that because no one would even acknowledge like, you look at this. You look at this certain way and you're like so done. But everyone wanted the perception of I woke up like this. This is how I just naturally look. So much gatekeeping. Yeah. This is like hours and hours of a facade. But it's fun. You know what? It's so crazy about that time. I feel like we were... It was the best time.

No, we were all growing our brands, but it didn't feel like it. We were just kind of like living and having so much fun and being on Snapchat and doing funny filters and just like showing our life because it was just fun. It was like a journal. It was. And it was so innocent too back then. And I appreciate the time it was because now it's like influencer overload and like everything that someone's talking about, they're being paid. to talk about where like when we were doing shit, you literally just did whatever you wanted. And if you were talking about something, you were just talking about it. Thank God we all had each other. Because I remember,

like Jess Alba was doing Honest Company at the time. Yes, I remember. My friend Emily Weiss was doing Glacier. And you guys were launching all of your companies. Oh my God. How many amazing shoots did we do? I mean, how many, but also I think it's so important to say is because even close friends of are like, all you guys do is all these successful things? I'm like, do you know how many things we've done that have failed and tanked? And you are a testament to, like, you, how many shoots have we done? Because we've done so much crap and it maybe had a little momentum and then it tanked. Like, you have to kiss a bunch of frogs. Yeah. And then you find your prints. And that's okay. Yeah. We just do it on a larger scale where it's- I mean, no, I'm going to shout you out. I'm

interrupting you and shouting you out for this because I was there with you for a good, like, seven years of you not only navigating like your personal life that was complicated, helping everybody with all of their things, making sure everyone in your life was taken care of, and you were traveling the world. Like, we went all over the world together. And you would just, no matter what was going on in your personal life, would show up with such light and grace. And it was cuckoo. I was like, how is this girl doing this? Like, we were just young. I mean, Chloe. The energy we had. But speaking about that, we got to go to the fucking best, craziest places. And I feel like even though we were working, Jen and I have such a good relationship.

Like, we would, it's before kids. It's before any of that. So we had different energy. But we had so much fun in every place that we went. And we've literally gone everywhere. Australia, Dubai, London, Amsterdam, Costa Rica. Yes. Oh my God. A work a million times. Everywhere. Yeah, we had the best time. But I really feel like I got to see so many versions of you. And what's interesting is, you know, I would get a lot of shit, to be honest, about being friends with my clients. Like, it was looked down upon that, like, I was being friends with my clients.

And I'm like, I am with it. We have spent so much time together, Chloe. And it's so intimate, you know, being in someone's house. Like outsiders? Yeah. Like people. I don't think they understanders. Yeah.

Because how. much, and when you get your glam done, whether, like, even if for someone to really, if you're just at the salon, getting your nails done or your hair done, they always say like your hairstylist is like your therapist. When I'm seeing you, it's the most vulnerable time. You're in your home. It's like 5 a.m. You might have had a long night. Your baby's been crying. Your husband did something, whatever. You're the first person I see. Yes, I'm going to ward vomit all this stuff to you. Oh my God. I had a transponder to your gate. my gate. But it's, that's the connection and it's so deep that of course you like fall in love with

your glam teams and you guys like people become such good friends. So I think people don't know because they're not in those intimate moments. But also we're traveling together. We're jet lag together. It's everything. Yeah. I think the relatable thing to everybody though is like no matter what you're doing and who you're working with, be a good person and don't be a user and just like show up. and protect the people you work with and don't be catty and don't be dramatic and don't put your whatever's going on with your life especially as a hairstylist i have to say i used to get so mad when people would come in and just dump on you yeah and you know you had to be so like front facing forward facing and then you have to go and meet people i mean the time you were i don't know how you did it

but like you were meeting thousands of people and having one-on-one conversations and making every person feel seen and heard. And I was exhausted just watching you do it. And it was a different time. But like when I, when glam people would like not be like professional. Professional. Well, speaking of professionalism, it's always something like totally get you. There's evolutions and we all evolve and grow into different phases. When Jen worked with me, Jen was with me literally every day for like seven years. Then she wanted to go and start way. And I'll never forget how you handled this. you were like, I'm going to leave and start away when you talked to me about it. And you said, I'm going to train someone and leave you with someone. I'm not going to leave until I know you're comfortable. And I have never been treated with such respect. And I will say professionalism, although you and I were so close. And you did exactly that. Like I've been told from people, oh, I'll make sure I do all this delicately or there'll be a smooth transition. And it's never fucking happening. And it's never fucking happened. And I'm. And it's never fucking happened. And with you, I've always used you as been like, Jen, you set me up for success. I want you to go

and be successful and do your thing and I'm supportive of you. But like also, can this be like a win-win? I don't want to be left high and dry as silly as that is, but I still have to work too. And you did it. Like if anyone could teach a class in that and I don't get why more people don't do that because it only makes that person like cheer you on more and be like, fuck yes. Like, I don't know. would they make it makes you feel that you're not being used and it wasn't just a stepping stone. And I will always respect you for how you handled that situation. How I handled that breakup. Yeah.

It wasn't a breakup. It was just uncoupling. Yes. Before it existed. Yes. You know what? It wasn't even a breakup. That moment, like my business was starting to like take off and I was like, oh my God,

I need to, I can't do it all. I'm a shell of myself. Pre-kids, by the way. And I remember being like, feeling. so guilty. I felt so much guilt for like leaving this profession full time that had like brought me so many blessings. And I was like, how am I going to do this? And the crazy thing is, Chloe, like, it was the perfect time for me to step in and like really nurture the brand to get it to wear. And I had at the time 30 people who relied on me to not screw up and get canceled. And like,

they're working really hard every day on this brand. And I was like, I've got to do this. And I just felt in my heart. It was just the perfect time. And like you and I both have now collectively changed so many people's lives. And you've seen these girls go from assistants to now like amazing hairstylist in there, have amazing careers and they'll have amazing things happening in their life. But you definitely paved the way for so many people. So Jen was tragically one of the people who lost her Malibu home in the Palisades Fire. And how did that experience shape you? I remember speaking to you when it was having to you. when it was happening. You offered for us to come and stay at your house. Okay, well, that was

ridiculous to me. You were that worried about me. I don't think I meant that. That experience goes in just the file of hard things that people go through that, you know, my dad dying, you know how horrible that is. Yeah. I had a dog that we lost to a coyote tragically in front of me, and that was just painful. I'm such a dog person. I know I wasn't, but I am. She wasn't at all. And losing the house has given me just like crazy empathy. It's the only thing that I've gained from it is just empathy. Like I realized in that moment, you know, it's been nine months and I feel like I'm just starting to like feel my own loss and our own loss of like our home because it's been just such a heavy loss for everybody. I also in that moment felt so held by our friends and our community and our neighbors and we all

were checking on one another and my husband stayed behind with some of our neighbors to help evacuate elderly people in our community. And, you know, we never thought, I went to work that day, texted Mike and said, hey, there's some smoke near Topanga, 10 a.m. Never thought 8 p.m. our house would be gone. Right. And I think, if anything, I feel like the best thing you could do and the best thing I could do is tell people to be prepared.

Like, I had a firebox. We had a fire scare two months prior. So 3 a.m. Our power went out. Mike and I went around the house and gathered the letter from my dad, my grandma's jewelry. Anything that mattered to us, we put it in this big box. And so we had it ready to go. Something that I know I'm really spiritual. I never know where you stand on that because you always go up and down. But when you went. So Jen also has, now it's her main home. But at the time it was her second home, she moved to Seattle. And I remember seeing you on. and social and you were going through belongings and you thought your grandma's jewelry got burned in the fire and then you found it later in one of those boxes. I know. Does that ignite your spirituality at all? Does that make you be like, oh my gosh, like these are signs.

She made sure this was with me. Because when I saw that, I got chills. I know. It was so crazy. You know, you're in such fight or flight. And then as a mom, you're like, okay, my kids have nothing right now. I need to, like, get supplies. And then people, I had, like, so many people sending us just, like, toys and food.

And it was just very overwhelming. And I remember maybe two months later, I was like, oh, my God, my grandma's, I had, like, this other stack of jewelry. And I remember just being like, I didn't grab it. And I didn't think Mike was calling me and saying, babe, what else can I grab? Is there anything else? And I did not think we were going to lose our house. I was like, there's no way. At 2 p.m. when you were evacuating, that we're going to lose this house.

Yeah. So anyways, I went to the garage in Seattle. We got all of our things. We had, like, one garage in Malibu that made it. It was, like, random things in there. But there was a couple of boxes. So we were kind of going to you and cleaning out all of this stuff. And there was a sunglass case.

And I opened it up, and my grandma's jewelry was in it. How is that a coincidence? Like, you have to believe. And there's a deeper meaning. My God, Chloe, like, you know, we all. I know it's so cliche to be like after someone dies and there's your little thing that you remember, you know, when I see a rainbow is so basic. But I grew up in Hawaii. No. And my dad loved rainbows.

But like, you know, there is so many moments like that where I fully feel like in the afterlife. And you have to understand. The guilt I had leaving the Mormon church thinking I'll never be with my family ever again is so strong. But I've completely worked through all of that. And I understand like I do feel like whether it's like you're just like a part of a universe. when you pass. Nobody knows, right? None of us know, but I do feel like my family's energy protecting us all the time. I think about it a lot. Yeah. I love that. I'm such a faith-based person and I don't know. I just, I don't know how I would survive my days without just having that faith or that spirituality to lean on. I mean, who's the first person that tells you to keep posting your Bible quotes? You. I know. I love them. It makes me feel like, and I need you to do it more because

Honestly, Chloe, like I think the more information that we're given through just our phones all day, every day, I just feel like the best thing we can do is show up and be a light. We need more of it. We need more people just like taking care of each other. And like, I will tell you, the fire taught me know your neighbors. Right. Get to know them on a personal level. Like I'd never had that in L.A. until we lived in Malibu. And it's just something that's so important to like, we like send little baskets for holidays to all of our neighbors. just to like, so they know our phone numbers, so they know our kids, what our dog looks like, you know, it's just really important to like rely on your neighbors. That's a good tip. It really is. Especially, I think, in places like L.A. where so many people don't do that, I do think it is important to do that. I've been thinking a lot about how much modern life quietly takes a toll on us. Even when I'm doing all the right things, I still notice where I feel bloated, low energy, or just not quite myself. That's what made me start looking for something that supports my body on a deeper level, and that's how I found Armour Colossum. We live in a day and age of

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So my husband is Jewish and I was raised Mormon. So neither of us are like super practicing. He doesn't go to temple. I don't think that our kids, to be honest, I'm going to take him the church of Dr. Becky. Like I feel like we're going to navigate this and the way that we're breaking emotional and generational trauma as we're not gentle parenting, right? But we're like breaking a lot of the things that maybe we wish we wouldn't have passed on to us. And I think with religion, I kind of feel the same way. I want my kids to have a new version and a new form of spirituality.

And I was just thinking about this last night. I actually grew up praying with my grandparents. Like they prayed together every night on their knees every night and just like, prayed for family members, prayed for if they read in the news, if there was like a fire or if there was like, you know, an earthquake. And I remember growing up around that and feeling so protected by that ritual. Yeah. And I think I want to start doing that with the kids. And if it's not to like a certain God, it's even just to the universe and like saying a prayer for people.

And I think it'll teach them that like, you know, we're all just little ants on this planet. I love that. I think that's a beautiful first step in you being. saved. I'm really proud of us for getting through this, by the way, and not just completely tearing each other apart. We're the kind of friends, by the way, that, like, we're sisters at this point where I can just say the worst thing to you and it makes you laugh.

Something about my mom's party. Oh, my God. Jen and I were both, like, really fucked up. And Jen was like, don't fucking hate you. And I'm like, I fucking hate you. Oh, we would be on set all the time. and people would look like, do they hate each other? Yes.

You guys, find a friend that can just dish it and take it because it is just the best. We are just verbally assaulting one another, but we need to let it out somewhere. And like, we know it's safe. We're not canceling each other. We've never gotten offended either one of us. Never. We'll be like, you're so fucking ugly. No, she would literally be like you're acting so adopted.

Well, it's true sometimes. Do you remember your app? Yes. You would make me do the craziest things for that app. Well, once you're like, you're like, you know, start working a lot, you don't have a lot of friends. So you were one of my besties. I was looking on your channel, by the way, because I really love your podcast. I'm not just saying it. I really do. And I don't like podcast, but I like yours. I know you've told me four times. Why the fuck am I doing a podcast?

And I was looking at like videos that you've posted. And you have a thumbnail of you and I. And it says who's, guess who's the best liar with my face next to it? Well, it's you. Thanks. You are a great liar. Which era do you think I had the best hair? I don't need like a big spiel about. The 70s because everyone had really big hair, really sexy dresses. Everyone was just like selling sex in a really glamorous way. And also everyone was on Quailudes. So that's my favorite era for him. Win, win.

Yeah. I don't know why when I thought 70s, I was thinking 80s because 80s would suck. No, it was like Studio 54, Jerry Hall, like just really gorgeousness. How many Barbies do you have? My God. I'm going all over. Something happened. Okay, you know that I, my first child was Barbie Birkin.

Barbie Burkin. I love that Barbie. No, this Barbie. So Jen had this Barbie, Barbie, Berk and her own Instagram account, everything. And no one knew who ran the Instagram account at the time. It was like, what was that one that was Norie's black book? It was like that. But you don't want to pull back the curtain. Like I don't want to know who the wizard is. Yeah. The Wizard of Oz. Did you ever find out who that is? Yes. We had a lunch with her on keeping up and it's sort of like. It's nobody we know? No. You thought it was me for a minute. We called you and asked if it was you. We thought it was like. Jonathan or Joyce, we had so many people. I mean, you're witty enough for it to be. Well, thank you. You are. You know, I have probably over 50 Barbies now, but in COVID, I really, like, fell into a deep, dark place. I, I told you I loved branding, okay? Barbie was the first, like, thing I got kind of, like, hooked on. I'm going to say a few things to you really quick. We have to switch gears. We're going to talk about Ivar. We're going to talk about hide. We're going to talk about Nassia now. We're going to talk about the Mondrian.

We're going to talk about. No. What? Cherry? Was that on Highland? No, LaBriot. There was a club Cherry. I don't know this club. Because Paris used to go all the time. Anyways, we just, we were, we were living in a time. Who was, L-A-X? Joseph. Who was Joseph's? Wait, can I just say, we needed to go off on the comments right now because I need all the millennials who are watching your podcast to know or listen to to it. We need to know, like, who's bringing club culture back to, like, the millennial moms and dads who, like, yes. Well, a much earlier time. It needs to start at six. We're home by nine. Yeah. But I will check my phone at the door and I will throw down so hard. I'll be the, if it does start at six, I'll be the first one there. We need club culture back. I know. It's not the same. It was so fun. But also, there was no phones. But even your mom's party. By the way, I came to your mom's party, really, because you said you were taking phones at the door. Yeah. And I know. how many people actually came because of that. So my mom had every name you could imagine in the phone book was at my mom's party. Literally. Literally. But so many people came because they knew there were no phones and people felt safe. They could put their guards down. And even just how connected people

works, they weren't that awkwardly texting when it got a little quiet. Or showing pictures. Yes. It was so nice. People were making eye contact and having so much fun. So nice. But we need club culture back and I think you and I are the ones to do it. So you want us to open up a club? It's going to be called club lay don't. Okay. And it's going to start at six. Tell me the last time you did something selfish just for fun. What a question. What have I done that selfish? Ooh, I was in Paris recently. This never happens. I was by myself in Paris for way. We did this huge activation. It was a dream come true. And I got like four hours to myself. And I was supposed to do some work.

But I was like, you know, L.A's asleep. I'm going to go and I went shopping. And I went to the row and I bought a bag. And I like had just like a fabulous afternoon. It was the best. Okay, Kendall Jenner. She. I know.

Well, Kendall let me wear the row. Am I allowed? Yes. You're allowed. What is the most surprising note in your notes app right now? The most surprising, honey. I'm scared of your notes app. Oh my God.

I was preparing for it today. And I was like, trying to remember just all the things we've been through. Jen is someone who's the most prepared, even when it could be from going to work, she will show people, if you're like, I'm going to do an updo. She'll have like 20 different updo images. Yeah. And she'll show you and like you pick one and Jen can actually recreate it, which is awesome.

But you are the most prepared in whatever you do. Even with brands, with like all of the stuff you do, if it's someone else's brand, you're still like, wait, it should look like this and you have photos. I just, I'm such a nerd, Chloe. No, I love it. I love Google Docs. I love the Notes app. I love Figma.

I love like, I just love being organized and prepared. If you think I know what Figma is, you're crazy. What is your can't live without glam product? I mean, here's the thing. I do like, I don't really do hair anymore. For yourself. Oh, for myself? I would say, okay, I will tell you two things I can't live without.

I just launched this amazing dry shampoo foam that's called Fresh Fluff. And it's like a move. but you work it into your hair and it makes your hair so clean and soft and amazing. I love that. I'm obsessed. Why did you send that to me? I gave you something that's coming out very soon. The double brush. The double brush. That is like my new obsession. So my drawer hiding. Yeah. Don't. I show it. Like, please. Do you ever miss the chaos of early glam years? Are you happy? Wait, and there's two and there's two cents. So I'm good at what I do. And there's two cents we came out with with Way. We came out with a bees. that in Santorini and I'm obsessed. We've worked on it for two years. No, which is the one I love.

And we're taking you on vacation, baby. You love St. Barts. I love St. Barts. I love St. Barts. I love St. I love St. Barts. I love St. Barts. I love St. Tartan Toree. I love Suntarini. You keep asking me for more. Didn't you go to Santorini with us for filming? No. No. No, that wasn't me. Sorry, wrong person. Do you ever miss the chaos of early glam or do you, are you happy it slowed down? Of early glam? What do you mean being there early? No, you dumb bitch.

Like do you miss the commute to your house and being at your house because you like to glam at 6 a.m? No. The real thing is that Jen stopped working with me because Kendall got old enough. Oh my God. And had her own house in Beverly Hills. So Jen was like, I'm going to lie and say I quit. But I'm really just going to move on with Kendall. But that's a whole other podcast.

Is this? I was, I hung up my scissors and then Kendall moved. to the city. And she's like my little sister. I had to take care of her. And then Kylie just got so famous that I couldn't ignore her. Exactly. You know what I mean? Like she had this brand. It was really taking off. Right. You had to do it. So I could drive out here for her. But I'd wave at you when I passed your house. You would. You know what? It's fine. What is a song that takes you back to the early 2000s? Ooh. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-ba-ba-ba-ba-oh. Oh my God. Wait, that came to you so quick.

Because I was just dancing to it at your mom's party. Oh my God. Wow. Or. You're such a good singer. Did I? They got your money. What hair trend do you never want to come back?

You putting blue. Crown blades. Because literally I did an Olson-inspired crown braid on this girl. I'm not in 2012. And it was so cute with your floral dress. And the bitch you wouldn't stop talking about it for five years. No, how much I hated it. You were so mad.

Well, first of all, I wish I was as cool as the. Olson sisters. I was also much chubbier. This person, this girl in front of me gives me a crown fucking braid. It was boho chic. I'm not boho. I was like clow money on steroids at the time. You ruined boho braids for me for life. Okay? So I want it to never come back. So we never have to talk about it again. Jen thought she was like so innovative and riveting. She put this Rita Hazan in my defense spray paint in the part of my hair, which will plop up a picture of. Oh, I'll show you all the photos. And it's a blue line. And it's like a, you took a Sharpie and drew down my part. And I thought it was great too because I wore it.

And then in hindsight, I'm like, we were just trying things. Babe, do you understand how much pressure was on me? We had, what was that website? Hollywood Life. Hollywood Life. And we lived to be on it. And Hollywood Life would always shout out our glam. So we had pressure to just bring something fun. And it was like, you could like vote we were just like oh we've made it that was like vote to us. That and pink is a new blog. If we were on that we made it. What are you staring at over here? That one piece is driving me. What is it? Can you see me staring it? What do you mean? I'm not Stevie Wonder. Of course. I've never seen anything like this.

I'm so sorry. It's just distracting to me. I need it to be like it's better now. You had one little hair that was literally, Chloe, it's like let me show you what it feels like to me. You're talking, but the hair is just doing that. And it's so distracted. Wow. My next question is, are you type A or type B? But I think we know that answer. Honey. Anyways. I'm close. C.D. is what I am. What's your favorite main product? I feel like. Ooh, hot round brush for sure. One is sold every seven seconds. Shut up. Where to God? The one that I tried to use. Isn't that crazy? That was like a tool I wanted to make for the moms. The moms that are rushed that like are just starting to look at themselves again in the mirror. You're like rich, rich. Honey. That's amazing for you. That's not true. I'm invested.

Let's just say that. I love it. Yeah. Well, you're well-being. The hot round brush, baby. You can buy me dinner. You can get it at Sephora. No, it is a great brush because if I am literally not able to use even, like, I can't brush my hair properly.

Let's not talk about me trying to show you how to do your hair a million times. Yeah. We have a video. We need to give them that video. So I was dating someone in Houston, and I remember saying to Jen, I can't bring glam, but like, who's going to teach me how to curl my hair? Jen's like, oh my God, let's film it. And when you're in Houston, watch the video back. It is the most train wreck of a video.

But what's crazy is I've done that? I did it for Courtney and her bangs like two weeks ago. I've done it with Kendall. She's FaceTime me a million times to ask how to do. They pick up on these things and they do it. I can't. No, I am literally. student that just mentally not. Doesn't want to leave the mess. No, I can't. And it's curling. Like,

it's not that. Like, Chloe. You know how many people know how to like curl their hair now? You know, my TikTok videos there are. It's just. And I don't. I've literally tried to watch YouTube. I'm like, maybe it's a gen problem and you don't know how to teach. Well, no, it's not. I've gone on YouTube. I mean, I've taught you a million times. No, I just can't compute it. And then to know that you do it a different way each side, I'm like, Remember, I always teach you keep the butt of the cord facing up and just change hands. I can't handle it. Well, you look beautiful.

Well, I didn't do my hair. Thank God you've got a lot of people on speed diet. At least it's job security. Yeah. Remember when you used to wear pink latex? I loved that. So, fun story. Yeah.

That was my finger, my knuckles are all bloody because I punched Lamar minutes, well, probably hours before. You're lying. That's when. In this Pab shot? Yes, because that was. Scott Dissick's birthday in Vegas. And I remember right before is when I went to say goodbye to what I thought was Lamar that didn't have a phone and he's recovering from his overdose. And I walk in on him doing naughty things. And so I swung on him. And I punched him. Do you know what's crazy? I can't

even watch the episode where you like see him. Oh, it's wild. I can't. I'll never watch it. It's just too hard. I blacked out. Oh, that was your main ad expover show. Here's what I'm going to say about this part. The best I've ever looked. Chloe, Mother Fing Kardashian, has always been the most supportive human being on the face of the planet and the reason I'm here today. Oh. But like you did my very first Maine addicts before Maine the tools was Maine addicts, which is a digital platform magazine about hair. And you did our very first like digital cover. Yeah. And my picture of your lips.

In my home. Which then Kylie copied. Thank you. And became the Kylie lip kit lip. What do the young kids do this? I don't know what they did. All of it. Nope, but we did.

We did the shoot at my house. Mary did my makeup. You did my hair. Mike shot it. Yeah. At grandioso. We just went to different white walls. I did my own styling.

I mean, look at the hat, obviously. Oh my God, but it was so fun. It was so fun and we made it work. How cute are you? How care we? No. We had so much fun in time. I wouldn't be doing this extra shit if I had kids.

Can we just say a PSA for any? Do all your work before kids. Any girl out there who thinks that you've got it rough, please sleep in. Please just go and hook up with as many people as possible. As many people. And honestly, just like live your ass off. And yes. Travel when we did.

But have fun. I have no regrets. Look at this. No regrets. Oh my God. That was on such a slut. That was RuPaul's drag race. First of all, biggest fan obsessed with Rue.

No one asked me to dress in a character. I'm willingly like I'm going to be a sailor. Wait, how did that come to be? I don't fucking know what I chose to be a sailor. No, I look amazing. But the balls I had on the sailor one, I was like a leopard in the second episode. I don't know why I thought I needed to dress like campy. Because we were just at the time, it was like campy.

That's what you do. If you show up to Rupal's Dragways, can we discuss something? I guess. You're kind of annoying because you're so, you're always like. Like, you've always got an aesthetic. I was just going through these pictures of, like, your old house. You always have, like, an aesthetic and a vibe. Which was what?

But, like, I don't understand how you have your shit together. I don't either. Like, truly. How have you just always had your shit together? You never fall apart. Ever. Ever. No, you don't.

I have days. I don't have, like, months. But you're grumpy is still, like, not as bad as, like, most people. You're pretty, like, in the light. It's annoying. True says when True's upset, she goes, peace begins with me. Peace begins with me. No, who taught her that?

I don't know. She'll just do that if she feels frustrated because like she'll do something like she's like sits away. She was peace begins with me. I was like, I'm fucking stealing that. Jen, thank you so much for coming on. I know how much you hate podcasts and you hate them. And you hate me. But I really appreciate you coming on.

I am so happy to be here and I'm so proud of you and all the things that you do. and all of the amazing light you put into the world. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And even though you're still drunk, you did a great job. You really did. Struggling.

You're so drunk.