Khloé in Wonder Land - Rewriting the Parenting Rulebook ft. Dr. Becky

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

Khloé and Dr. Becky explore what happens when we stop parenting on autopilot and start tuning into connection over control. From rethinking outdated discipline methods to helping kids build real emotional skills, this episode is a thoughtful look at raising kids who feel seen and supported — all while learning to trust yourself as a parent.Episode Sponsors:Opill is birth control in your control, and you can use code KHLOE for 25% off your first month of Opill at https://Opill.com. Check out Opill to see if it is right for you!If you’re into glamour and romance, things are heating up on Hulu. Catch new seasons of Project Runway and Bachelor in Paradise this summer. And coming soon, catch the all-new reality series Love Thy Nader, starring the Nader sisters. Plus, don’t miss an all-new season of Love Island UK streaming only on Hulu. There’s so much great reality on Hulu it’s almost...too real. Next time you need your reality TV, go to Hulu. Hulu gets real.This year, skip breaking a sweat AND breaking the bank. Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless plans at MintMobile.com/KHLOE. Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month 5GB plan required (equivalent to $15/month). New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full-price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.Cymbiotika is as high quality as it gets—wellness made simple, for you and your loved ones! Go to https://Cymbiotika.com/Khloe to get 25% off plus free shipping.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi. Dr. Becky. I'm so excited. Dr. Becky. Me too. Thank you so much. Oh, my gosh. Thank you.

The most important thing as a parent is just your mindset because unconsciously we think our kid's distress is our fault and then we rush in to fix it. No one likes to see their kid upset. Right. But that's what resilience is later on. But it's messy as heck. When you set a boundary as a parent, a kid always has the same reaction.

They tantrum. Right. They protest. Right. Because they're not getting the thing they want. And that is a hard human experience. Yes. We say my kid doesn't listen,

but the hard truth is actually as parents, we're just not really setting the boundary soon enough. I agree. Do you have any tips for mom guilt? First of all, anticipate that voice. And remind myself, this is a sign I'm doing something new, not something wrong. Like so many things open up as possibilities.

Right, I like that you said like prepare yourself. Let yourself know you're gonna hear this voice. Yes. That's normal. Yes. But keep on going. Keep on going. Thank you Dr. Becky for being here on Chloe and Wonderland. I'm so excited. I was telling you off camera that when I told my group that you were coming on today, my phone lit up like a Christmas tree. Everyone was submitting me questions. I'm like, I don't know if I can get to everything, but who needs, I mean, like a show runner

when I just have my focus group on my phone with you. It's crazy. Do you get that reaction a lot? I think it speaks to how being a parent is the hardest and I think most important job in the world and it's probably the only job we're given zero education for and we're told as women, it should come naturally. And so there's a very big gap between like this parent

we want to be and how much we care about it, and then how challenging it is. And so I think we all have a lot of questions because it's so hard, but also because kind of the world has really underprepared us and kind of told us a story that doesn't really make sense about what the stage is gonna feel like. How did you acquire so much knowledge

and information about parenting? So, when I kind of finished grad school, I had my private practice in New York City. I was seeing, at that point, mostly adults in therapy. People like me, people like you, couples, therapy. Kind of like weekly, ongoing, deep work. And at the same time, I started to see parents who came to me not for therapy,

but for help with their kids, where they'd say, honestly, I don't think my kid needs therapy, but there's some stuff I need some help with. Tantrums, lying, not sleeping. I mean, sibling rivalry, all of the kind of stuff that happens in every home. And so I had done all this additional training

at this parenting center that was very esteemed, and what I was taught was all about timeouts, punishments, sticker charts. And what I started to notice in my private practice was I really felt comfortable how I was working with adults. I felt like there was this balance of understanding how our past influences our present, and then also combining that kind of knowledge

about how the past comes into play with very actionable tools so people could actually make changes. So it was kind of a mix of things. And then I started seeing session to session, hold on a second, like if you were my client and you told me, oh, I yelled at my sister today, I keep doing that, I would never say to you,

give me your phone, no phone for the week. I feel like you'd never come back to my office. Like what's even the theory of why that would help me stop yelling? Right, yeah. But then in the next session, I heard myself give advice where a kid would hit their sister and I'd be like teaching this parent

how to send their kid to their room. Again, if I said, Chloe, go to your room and come out when you know how to stay calm. I'm coming to you because I don't know how to stay calm. You didn't give me the tools. You didn't give me the tools. You didn't give me the tools. And then the whole system just unraveled before my eyes. And I thought about other things we teach kids.

We teach kids how to swim. Not by sending them to their room. We teach kids how to make layups if they want to play basketball. Not by lecturing them about all the things they're doing wrong. By teaching, by practice, by repetition, and then by tolerating the time it takes for those skills to convert into behavior change. And then everything I just saw, I said,

okay, I think we've just been doing this for hundreds of years. Like, I picture timeouts, punishments, sticker charts, being an idea someone had. And on the library shelf, it was kind of in the kind of fiction category. And one day a librarian mistakenly kind of put it in nonfiction. And then for hundreds of years, we're like, I guess this is just true.

And when I gave myself permission to question all of the assumptions, I realized I was left with two things. I was left with the idea that kids are born good inside. I just don't believe babies come into the world saying, like, I can't wait to fuck over my parents. I just don't think that's how they come. I agree with that. And this kind of really powerful visual

that kids are born with all the feelings and none of the skills to manage feelings. And for generations, we've thought the problem is the feelings. You shouldn't feel jealous. Why are you so mean? Or we think the problem is the behavior. But the behavior is just a manifestation of the fact that the kid doesn't have skills.

And what if there was a system to give parents that instead of punishing kids for kind of not having skills in the first place, we actually did what we do in every other area of life. We coach kids to build skills, emotion regulation skills. And that's when I realized, that's what I do with adults. Adults who go to therapy, basically are learning emotion regulation skills.

That's what I learned in my own therapy. And so then I think some of my best ideas for parenting came from the work I was doing with adults and thinking, what if we reverse engineered this to parents and just started to give this stuff to kids early? And don't get me wrong, they're all, my kids are gonna need therapy too. But there's needing therapy for big stuff and smaller stuff.

And like, may we all just, you know, have our kids need therapy for small things. Exactly. And I think what the overall messaging that I hear when it comes to you is how easy it is to take in the information that you're giving. You don't try to high talk people. You're not like, let me use really big words

and jumble everyone's brains just so I sound smarter. We all know how smart you are. But I think it's the real mastery of knowing something is when you can explain it on the most fundamental level. It makes people feel seen. It makes people feel safe. And they take away this knowledge that you're blessing them with. And that's something that I know when I watch your videos, I'm like, oh, easy, done. And I can implement that into my daily life where I love and respect how people have mastered

their craft for years and years. But sometimes these words, I'm like, I didn't go to college, number one, but number two, I didn't study in what you studied for 10, 15, 20 years. So how could I know what these words mean or what you're saying? So I really appreciate the takeaways that you give to so many people. And it's because everyone wants the

peaceful, amazing household and it's scary and stressful and we all don't know what the hell we're doing. And so to have someone that's like, okay, I don't really know what anyone's doing too, but let me give you these tips that work for us. And I love that. Well, that really means a lot. And I think back to when I was in my clinical psychology, my PhD program, and I'd sometimes go watch people speak with my cohort that I was going through the program with, and I'd hear these most amazing, brilliant things,

but I would be the only one walking out saying, okay, but what do I do? And everyone's like, but wasn't that amazing? I was like, it was, but I still don't know how to action on this. It does seem like very ethereal almost. And I am someone who I love thinking deeply, but I also just love practical things.

Like, tell me the thing. And so the truth is, I actually don't ever think that I have all the answers. I do think I have a way of thinking through problems. Like I have principles or frameworks. And sometimes the answer's not, you know, right in front of you, but I actually think that's the best gift for parents, is not just, what is the script I need right now,

but do I have a way of thinking through when my kid hits, when my kid says, I hate you? Uh, ooh, how much do I wanna make my kid's life easy versus how much is saying no and them tolerating frustration actually gonna really help them in life? And thinking about how to see what's in front of you, as a parent to me, that's actually the gift of power and clarity, and that's what I really love,

helping parents access. What do you think right now about how so many people are not having babies? What is your theory or, I don't know, do you think anything about that? Yeah, well, I think there's so many different things about that. There is nothing you get as like a stamp of approval as a woman by becoming a mom.

Like, it doesn't make you a better person. It's not a morally superior choice in my mind. And so maybe there are some people out there who are just giving themselves more optionality about the type of life they want to live or the timing that makes sense for them. That's number one. Number two, I do often go back to what we started with.

I think the myth of maternal instinct, which was created by a man and has no scientific basis, to what we started with, I think the myth of maternal instinct, which was created by a man and has no scientific basis, has had a profoundly, uh... kind of depressing, awful, nasty impact on especially women. I really do. I mean, I picture people in a room one day saying, like, if we could convince women that being a mom comes naturally, like, that would be really good for us.

Because then when parenting's hard, women will just blame themselves and they'll have shame. And when you have shame, you don't speak up for your needs. And then you'll feel small and lie about what it's like. And then kind of the rest of the world can continue. And so I just wonder if there's a sensing of that. Like parents in general are very under supported, we're under educated, right? It's not like you have a friend who's a surgeon

who says like, I didn't need to go to medical school. I have a surgical instinct and figure it out from Instagram reels. I think you'd be like, wow, well, first of all, no offense, I'm never going to use for surgery. And second, it's actually the opposite. Doctors wear their education with pride. They put it all over the wall.

They tell everyone where I went to med school and residency as they should. And so I wonder if people are delaying in part because they kind of know, wait, like let me make a more mindful decision. Let me get a little bit more resourced and educated. And maybe the world can, you know, needs to do a little bit more of its job in supporting parents.

I agree. And I applaud, I have so many friends that are older, they're at the cusp of like, okay, do I either push myself to have a baby or do I not? And they might not have a significant other. And I love that they're like, I actually don't want to be a mom. And there's a lot of people that have kids that probably shouldn't have kids.

And I really respect people that are like, I'm just not in the place to have kids, or I do want to be married and have that two-parent household, and that's beautiful. And they're not there yet. So, like, there's so many things that I really praise people that do just say, no, it's not for me.

And they feel confident in that. Yeah, and what you're saying about the understanding of, am I not in the place to have kids? Because I think we have a more nuanced understanding of what it's really like as an adult to have a kid. Like this fantasy, oh, my kid's gonna heal me. I always say with this fantasy that our kids are gonna heal us, our kids trigger us.

There's nothing like it when you become a parent. Every single thing that's unhealed about your childhood just acts itself out. Like, oh, I guess I have to figure that out. Okay. I didn't know I was still holding onto this. Seriously. Yeah.

And the plus of that is if parenthood is a period where you say, wait, if I'm triggered and I can kind of see my unresolved stuff before my eyes, I guess in a way it could be a time where I kind of become the most empowered, capable, more healed version of myself, because I have such information about the stuff that I need to work on, right?

Why does it trigger me so much when my kid's whining? Nobody likes whining, but as an example, whining usually represents helplessness in a kid. And so if you grew up in a, you know, stop crying, or I'll give you something to cry about household, or pull up your bootstraps, you had to learn early on, helplessness is not safe in this family. I will develop a voice to shut it down,

so I don't have a scary experience with my caregiver." Now your kid's whining and you think you're responding to their annoying voice, which it is annoying, but you're actually just kind of reenacting this thing you had to learn to do to shut down and the voice, instead of just talking to you, you know, you hear yourself say, I've been there too. These like awful things to your kid, what's wrong with you? You're so pathetic.

Like use a normal voice. And you're like, I guess my kids three, they don't even really know how to talk, but it just flies out of our mouth. And so I do think this idea of moms and dads saying, wait, maybe there's some internal work that would make me feel, first of all, more prepared to be a parent, the parent I want to be,

but also might just make me feel more at home in myself. That's the work I love doing with parents. And I think that's what kind of the impact we have. And it's, I love that too, and I think it makes people feel not isolated. They're like, okay, all these other people are having the same struggles I do. Because years ago, we didn't talk about that.

In the 80s, 70s, 80s, I meant like kids aren't seen. There was no playrooms. And if there was, never there were toys in the kitchen or things like that. So it is fascinating how far I think society has come in a short amount of time. Cause now kids sort of take over the house and all that jazz. You brought up some of the older sayings.

Have you seen that TikTok trend that's going around? Yes, I commented on one of them, yeah. When I think about it, I'm like, that's some crazy shit that people said that's going around? Yes, I commented on one of them, yeah. When I think about it, I'm like, that's some crazy shit that people said to us. Right? Yes. And I think this weird thing happens where we just call it discipline.

Like, there's like, and someone's like, it's just discipline. And if you're like, wait a second, if I just put that word, which sounds nice enough to the side, that looks, it looks abusive. Like, it doesn't, like, if someone ever heard my husband say to me, you never listen to me. And whenever I want to leave the house,

you're so uncooperative, and what's wrong with you? They'd be like, Becky, you're in a toxic relationship. You just didn't want to leave the house when he wanted to leave the house. So you guys have to resolve that. But for him to say you have a listening problem is kind of gaslighting. Right, but we say that stuff to our kids.

Me too, all the time. Even our movies, I'm like, I that, we say that stuff to our kids, me too, all the time. Even our movies, I'm like, I mean, our parents didn't have other options, but I'm like, the shit we watched was very traumatizing, I will say. I know, I know. This episode is brought to you by O-Pill,

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Alexa did send me this video, which I really liked. I do feel like we have these weekends. And I'm like, okay, I guess I'm like, I don't get a day off because I know we're parents. But she sent this to me yesterday. I was like, oh my God, I love that. Where you basically are saying, no, the weekend is not just for the kids.

And I love that you said your son was, I don't know what sport you said. Yeah, flag football. Flag football. And you were like, sorry, we can't do that this year because it's not great for the family unit. Yes. And how, yes, that's so amazing

if you can go into that a little bit. I love to talk about this because to me- Because I didn't even think I had the option. Right, and to me, the mantra I tell myself is like, it's my weekend too. Like it's your weekend too. Hell yes, everybody. Right?

It's my fucking weekend too. Where I remember talking to someone, I think it was actually Astaire Perel. I don't, and she was like, she was just talking about this American trend. Like, and I was laughing with her about it, because it's true, I'm like, I spend my be Esther Perel. And she was like, she was just talking about this American trend. And I was laughing with her about it, because it's true, I'm like, I spend my whole weekend

watching my, at best, perfectly below average athletic children play soccer or flag football. I'm not with my husband. I'm like, kind of, literally we say, divide and conquer. Well, look what I'm doing to our family. And then I'm also resentful on Sunday night, because I didn't get to do anything for myself. And to some degree, I am orchestrating

this whole situation because I might not have realized, it's my weekend too. And so what I was saying is, this has become, and I have to thank my husband because he's really put this idea in my mind, that there's something to being together as a family unit versus every kid kind of having the kind of maximum opportunity individualistically, right? So that's one. every kid kind of having the kind of maximum opportunity

individualistically, right? So that's one. And number two, there's also just our own needs, like your needs and my needs on a weekend. And I think if we just zoom out and then I'll tell the story, what I think really about good insight and our parenting approach in general is it's very long-term greedy. Like our kids will be out of our house way longer than they're gonna be in our house.

And the stakes only get higher. Like, as hard as it is for our kids to have a tantrum at six, if they can't deal with something not going their way when they're 26, ooh, that looks uglier, right? And so, when I think about that long-term greedy mindset, like, am I reacting and parenting my kids in a way, not all the time, but in general, that represents how they can be

truly successful in life later on, it gives me a little bit of a guide. And what I know is when you get older, life is not always about your pleasure, especially in relationships. Like, sometimes you have to drive far to have dinner with someone else because they came to you. Sometimes you have to go to a restaurant you don't want. Sometimes you have to say, okay, I'll go to my in-laws for this holiday,

even though it's not my first choice. And why would I expect my kid to be suddenly able to tolerate the frustration of not getting their way when they're 26, if they haven't been building those skills throughout their life? And so we have three kids, son wanted to do flag football on Friday nights.

It's my youngest, and so we've been through this. It's not my first rodeo. It ruins my whole Friday night. One of us goes, it's far away. Friday night to me is such a nice time to just chill. We usually cook dinner, it's just like this relaxing time, and instead one of us is going to this flag football thing. And obviously there's times in a weekend and a week

where I don't do the thing I want to give my kid the thing they want. But there's this balance, and I think some things happen in parenting where we do so much of that in the name of it being good for our kids. It's not even good for our kids down the line. They become so entitled, right? And so the conversation I ended up having was,

look, he does so many sports, Lacrosse, soccer, basketball. This is a kid who does a lot of things. And we were just looking at the schedule as a whole, and saying, look, flag football, I don't think it's your number one. Right? And he said, no, it's definitely not. And has a very, very big impact on our family unit. And so, we're not gonna sign up this year. And look, I think he is kind of used to me in general,

setting boundaries that I think are good for him long term, or good for me, or good for our family, even if he's not short-term happy. But when you do this initially, for you, for anyone listening, like, I think people have this fantasy that I'd say to my kid, we're not doing flag football or TV time is over. And as soon as I set that boundary, my kids are like, I really needed that.

Like, I really appreciate you. You're such a sturdy leader. I love you so much. That's never happened. And when you set a boundary as a parent, a kid always has the same reaction. They tantrum. They protest. Because they're not getting the thing they want. And that is a hard human experience. And then we can validate them.

Oh, I know, you wish you could do flag football along with all the other sports. I get it. And I continue to hold the boundary. And I think I've noticed in my weekends, I'm not perfect at it, but I really do feel different on a Sunday night. And I don't have that same rage moment, Sunday at four, because when we have that rage moment to some degree,

I think we're yelling out, what about me? What about any other part of me that's not about caregiving for my kid? And when those parts that want to slow down and be home, that want to take a walk without your kids, that want to go out with a friend, when those parts of you are so ignored

for so long, they will act like a toddler and scream out in an inopportune moment. But the same thing is true with a toddler. If you give them a little bit of attention, that they chill a little bit. No, but I don't know why it was like such an epiphany for me to hear that. I was like, yes, this is actually my weekend too.

I know we love our kids, but yes, we also, I always say like, they don't want me when I'm at the end of my rope. They don't. And I think this motherhood is martyrdom thing. I love a good metaphor. To me, it helps me, like emotionally in the moment, do the thing I want to do.

Like I picture this pilot, who's like on the, whatever it's called, the intercom right before you take off. And they're like, I love piloting so much. I love you all so much. I have been piloting for 30 straight days without sleeping because I love piloting. You're like, get me off this plane.

And actually I shared that with someone and they go, but pilots are mandated to take rest. Have you ever been in a flight where they're like, sorry, this pilot's cruising out for too long. You are actually mandated to be a good, safe pilot. We're gonna mandate moms. Literally, sometimes I tell myself on the weekend when I'm doing something, my kids are protesting,

I don't have to say this to them, to myself. I say, Becky, it's the law. It's the law. It's the law. I don't have to respect the law, but I need to respect the law as an adult. And so I am going I say, Becky, it's the law. It's the law. They don't have to respect the law, but I need to respect the law as an adult. And so I am going to say,

and if you know your kids are allowed to be upset, and you even know the upset feeling that you're not available, that they're still safe. We're not like, go set a fire while I'm in my room. No, like there's gonna be someone watching them where there's some situation, they could be at a friend's house. They're allowed to be disappointed.

It's actually good for them. Because again, fast forward, there's gonna be a relationship they're in where they're gonna wanna hang out with someone. And that person's gonna say, -"I'm not available right now." -"Right." And we don't want our kids to completely spiral or lose themselves or turn their disappointment

into rage and anger. Or feel that person doesn't like me or that like it does turn into all of that. That's right. Love doesn't mean losing yourself. Right. Equally true is, I love the heck out of myself, and I want to take care of myself. Like, what an amazing gift they will take in

to the rest of their life to have that deep in their bones because that's what they experienced. I'm guilty of this, and I've made a change a few months ago, maybe the last year. My son is two and a half, my daughter seven. And I was scheduling like always to do activities or after school, let's do Spanish class or then you have gymnastics on Thursdays

and there's just no time. And then I was even like, why am I over scheduling my kids number one? When I was younger, I don't think I had anything to do. It was so good to be bored. And not even boredom, but just why do I have to distract you with things all the time? If you're talented or obsessed with an instrument or a sport,

sure, I wanna encourage that. But I'm saying if my kids aren't asking for these things, I'm doing them because I think it's for like the betterment of them, then I was, my daughter would always be, can I just stay home today? And I was thinking, why would I not let her? I don't want to leave the house most days. I just want to stay home. It doesn't mean that she's on her iPad.

It just means she wants a chill day at home. And I realized, I was like, I'm overscheduling. Let me pull back. I don't want them to do a chill day at home. And I realized, I was like, I'm overscheduling, let me pull back. I don't want them to do something every day after school or we don't have to go somewhere every weekend. But I was super guilty of that. And don't you feel like parents

are totally overscheduling these days? Yes, and I can definitely fall into that too, right? Because I feel like some things happen where this optimization culture is very much happening in 2025, you know, you're optimizing every part of your life, right? The more data, the better, right? And you're healthier, this, and I'm not saying

all that's bad, it's like anything else where there's some amount where you've gone over, right? And it's no longer good for you. And I think probably unconsciously, we all carry that into our kids. More after school is better, right? And then there's this weird loop that happens where the more kids learn,

I need to gaze out at the world and I expect excitement and kind of ideas and activities and creativity to come from there, to come from this class, to come from this iPad. It's not a surprise that the less likely they are to be able to gaze in and say, well, what are my ideas? What would I want to do?

What could I create? What could I do with these blocks? What kind of story could I write? And so it is kind of, I think, at play here, where the more we schedule our kids and encourage them to kind of get all this enjoyment from something done for them, the harder it is over time to kind of realize,

wait, I have really good valuable things inside me. And you said boredom, I do think that is true. Where there's something that happens when our kids say, I'm bored. And then I want to fix their boredom, but honestly, not really, I just wanna fix this feeling like I'm a bad mom, so I like create some activity. And I think for me, as my kids have gotten older,

just reminding myself, you said, actually, bored is really good. Boredom is always the space anyone's in before they build a sense of creativity or competence, right? Because when your kid is bored, I see this with my kids. I go, boy, girl, boy. And they don't inherently always want to do the same thing.

So, especially, let's say my daughter was younger, she wanted to draw. My older son, it was not high on his list. You know what would happen when he was bored? I'm like, I guess I'm gonna draw with my list. You know what would happen when he was bored? I'm like, I guess I'm gonna draw with my sister. Like, what else am I gonna do? Right, there weren't, or I guess I'm gonna pick up a book.

Right. Kids read books because there's nothing more exciting to do. Kids draw with their sister because they don't have a better option. And that can actually be amazing, but it does require, and I think this is the thing we have to be honest about, it requires a lot internally as a parent. You have to really take that deep actually be amazing, but it does require, and I think this is the thing we have to be honest about, it requires a lot internally as a parent. You have to really take that deep breath and say,

I'm not being a bad parent. This is an inconvenient moment because my kid is whining and looking to me for a solution, but I can tolerate it. And then, if I can tolerate that feeling, my kid learns to tolerate that feeling. And what comes right after is generally, yeah, really good stuff. If I think about my own kids and what I wanna give to this next generation, I always say,

I actually don't want my kids when they're young, this is gonna sound sick, to be good at succeeding. Really don't, I think it makes for such anxiety and fragility when you have a ton of easy, quick success. I want my kids to be really good at struggling and being frustrated. Well, that resilience. That's what resilience is later on. But it's messy as heck when it's younger

because it's the tantrum and then do the puzzle for me. I can't do it. And they feel alienated because you're, I mean, I think anyone that's going through a tough period doesn't, and they're not like, wow, I'm building my resilience. You don't say that. That's exactly right.

Right. So, and a kid can't possibly have that much self-awareness to say something like that, and an adult barely can. We're not like, it's fine, I'll go through this shitty situation, because I know at the end I'm going to be super resilient. No, we're like, this stinks. Right. Please rescue me.

Why am I getting put through this? Everything is why me, why me. So, yeah, but I do, we all love resilience. So I get what you're saying. I don't think it makes you sound sick at all. I get it. Again, it kind of goes to that longer term greediness. Right.

Right, where I think we probably all see some 20-year-olds, 30-year-olds where the first piece of negative feedback at work, they crumble. I mean, it feels like their whole self-worth was just destroyed, right? And in a way, the path is the easier and more quickly you kind of find success. Well, it would make sense then, your circuitry, right?

Because the way we relate to our kids forms kind of their factory settings for how they go into the world. As adulthood, all of this can be rewired. I would say it's never too late. That's the most important thing. Even in teenage years, you think? That's what we're all doing as adults, aren't we? Even in teenagers, for sure.

And it gets never too early and it's never too late. They're equally true. Right? But I just think we all need this pep talk. Like, my kid is having this tantrum, doing this puzzle. Like, Dr. Becky, why am I trying to tolerate that? Why am I exhausting myself instead of just doing the puzzle? We need a reason or else, like, all this, we're like, I'm not doing that.

And to me, like, competence, resilience, like, all those good things, they happen on the other side of a really messy struggle. They do. And I think as a parent, it's kind of our job some of the time to be like, resilience, like all those good things, they happen on the other side of a really messy struggle. They do. And I think as a parent, it's kind of our job some of the times to believe this situation, like essentially, you're right, this puzzle's really hard.

Telling kids that their feelings make sense, honestly, telling ourselves that our feelings make sense, it does a surprising amount to kind of a little bit calm the feeling. You're right, this puzzle is hard. It makes sense to be frustrated. Ugh, your friends all have this certain sweatshirt you don't have. It makes sense you're jealous.

Right? Like, just saying it makes sense kind of regulates some piece. SHANNON It validates them. CLAIRE Exactly. And then the other piece that I think have been the most powerful moments in my own life is when someone sees I'm going through something hard, but they can kind of visualize this more competent version of myself than I can access in the moment.

Like, that feels like love, right? Which is like, this puzzle's hard, it makes sense you're having a hard time, we can take a breath, I'm not gonna do it for you. Because the best feeling in the world is when you think you can't do something. And then you watch yourself stick with it, and I'm just not gonna take that feeling away.

And I just know it might not happen today, but it will happen. So let's go get a snack, let's go get some water. You can pause, we can come back tomorrow. You're gonna figure this out, and I'm gonna give you a huge high five when you get there. Like...

And I love that. It is important for us to disappoint our kids from time to time. Yes. So they build those emotions and how to cope with them. Yes. And how to interact with somebody else while dealing with them. That's exactly right.

And I think the most important thing as a parent is just your mindset. Because unconsciously we think our kids distress is our fault. And then we rush in to fix it. Because it's hard. No one likes to see their kid upset. But if your mindset is kind of...

building a really resilient kid who's... I don't know if they'll ever really write me a thank you note. But like, if they knew what was up, they'd be like, oh, thank you. All right. Summer is almost here, and Mint Mobile has a hot take that I am fully on board with. Getting a summer bod? That's out. Getting your savings bod?

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But why do you think people have so much pushback to you on the gentle parenting? So it's really interesting where I get questions from reporters a lot, kind of criticizing gentle parenting. I actually don't think, and I really mean this, someone could show me wrong, there's been one person who's either seen a reel or, like, our bigger programming, again,

I think parents deserve a deeper education than a 60-second reel is in our app, our like amazing app where I don't think there's one person there who's ever watched like a session with me and said, Dr. Becky seems soft. It just hasn't happened. I agree. When I saw this question, I was like, I don't really correlate you

to gentle parenting. What I think is this unfortunate, I was like, I don't really correlate you to gentle parenting. What I think is this unfortunate, first of all, unfortunate reality is number one, I'm sure you see this in general, we've become this world where it feels increasingly hard to hold two seemingly oppositional things at once. Two things can be true. You can care about someone's feelings and not be soft. I think that's what this is, that again,

there was some book that was written about feelings, that feelings were soft and like, you're a loser if you're talking about things, you're raising snowflakes. And again, I think it was one person's like, kind of crazy ramp that got miscategorized on nonfiction, and now I'm like, that's just true. You feel before you think.

Feelings are kind of the hardest, most truest thing. The most resilient, strongest people in the world are able to control and have a sense of their feelings and use their feelings to channel all the good things. And yet there still is this narrative that if you care about a kid's feelings, you're a gentle, you're a pushover. I think what's been missed

and what I think good inside really gives parents the language for are these two things at once. Good inside, yes, is about validating kids' feelings, which is not agreeing with them. It's just seeing them as real. That's all it is. But it's also human.

Like, I know kids are human, but a lot of people think, oh, if you're under my roof, I have like full authority and control, which there are boundaries and rules. That's right. But I, so I love that, cause I think I'm so similar.

I like to hear kids that, they're little adults, like little humans. They still have minds and they're processing things. They have questions and like, don't talk back to me if someone's asking you a question. I'm like, but that's how they're gonna learn and get answers. And they're so curious. So I don't think you're a gentle parent.

I think you're just a great patient parent and that's what you're doing. But I think people just need to put others in a box. I think that's right. So I think this idea, yes, we're about validating feelings. We are equally about setting boundaries. I actually think boundaries are probably the most misunderstood term and kind of concept.

It's an overused term. And just people don't actually understand what a boundary is, because people say all the time, this person doesn't respect my boundaries. Kids don't respect my boundaries. I think that just means you might not have the most accurate definition of boundaries, because boundaries are an assertion

of parental authority. I would say boundaries are what you tell your kid you will do, and they require a kid to do nothing. And actually, when you get to the point of screaming at your kid, or, I've done this too, you have some threat, like, that you never intend to keep, you just, like, don't know what else to say.

Like, I'm gonna take away all your stuffed animals, and my sister was just joking, she's like, I'm gonna take away your dresses and cut them in half. And we're like, what are we saying? I don't know. Not gonna do that. Um, but that's not a boundary. Because a boundary isn't saying, stop jumping on the couch, I'm gonna take away your dessert if you jump on the couch.

Because that's not telling your kid what you're gonna do. And it's requiring your kid to do something. You're giving all your power to your four-year-old. A boundary would be saying, by the time I get over to the couch, if you're not off the couch, I'm gonna pick you up, and I'm gonna put you on the floor. It's just not safe to jump so close to our glass table.

And then again, you're gonna set the boundary, your kid is not gonna say, -"Oh, thank you. I really love you." -"Right." No, they're gonna scream. Then you can validate. -"Or keep jumping." -"They will, right?" But they're not, because I really would set the boundary, by saying, I'm gonna pick you up now.

My kid is not being safe. We would never ask for our kid's permission to stop them from running into the street. We would never be like, if you run into oncoming traffic, I'm taking away your dessert. That would be a crazy thing to hear. Just pick up your kid. If your kid's like, no, let me go.

No parent would say, Chloe, you're not respecting Tatum's words. You'd be like, I'm sorry, Tatum was about to run into oncoming traffic. Right. No, I'm not. Yeah, I'm just gonna stop that from happening, because I'm an adult. And I actually think so many situations where we get so frustrated with our kids are times where we say my kid doesn't listen,

but the hard truth is actually as parents, we're just not really setting boundaries soon enough. I know no two kids are alike. And I parent differently based off of their personality or what I know they can handle. Some you can discipline differently than others, some can't handle, some you don't even need to threaten if that's the word. Don't you agree with that? I mean, completely.

I mean, I see my three kids and people are always like, which two kids are more similar? I was like, whatever that triangle is where all points are equally distant from each other. Right. Those are my kids. And I have a feeling if I had a fourth, which I am not, it would be like a square. Like I just think there's probably infinite combinations.

And I guess I think this is another two things are true, where all kids, I do believe, need the same things. They need love, they need boundaries, they, right? They need connection. But the vehicle in which they can receive those things, they're tweaked. And I think that's why, that's one of the reasons parenting's so hard.

Like, I think my three kids, they each almost need a different part of me to be the lead parent. I know with me and my siblings, we're's so hard. Like, I think my three kids, they each almost need a different part of me to be the lead parent. I know with me and my siblings, we're all so different. And if you said something to me, it might not affect me. But if you said it to my sibling, she might be broken down. And that's very normal, I think. 100%.

You talk about how kids are born with all the feelings, but none of the skills. How can parents help them build those emotional tools? In general, generation to generation, we just haven't taught humans, to me, the most important skill, which is how to manage the emotions that course intensely through your body.

And so I think there's two parts of this. How do we teach our kids the skills? The other part for every parent is, he's like, well, if I don't have the skills, who's teaching me the skills, like the other part for every parent listening, he's like, well, if I don't have the skills, who's teaching me the skills so I can teach them the skills? Right? And so, to me, the best part of Good Inside is I think we do both at once, because we're busy as parents,

we don't have time for that many things, we've gotta be efficient. And so, number one, the most powerful way our kids learn to regulate their emotions is when we are able to regulate our emotions in response to their behavior. And this is a hard truth, because it's like, oh man, really, does that have to be the answer?

Like that's... And it is really hard. Yes. Right, because a lot of us were raised by parents who I believe 100% were doing the best they could with the resources they had. And what could be equally true is we still might not have gotten everything we needed. Just like our kids will probably say to us.

Exactly. Every generation. Hopefully that gap gets a little smaller, but that's the best it's gonna get. Right? And so I think for a parent to even have a mental model of, okay, when my kid says, I hate you, when all I said was, you can't have sleepovers on Wednesdays because there's school tomorrow,

it's like a very normal thing. Like, I hate you, you're the worst parent, every parent lets their kid have sleepovers. No parent generally does, but they say all these things. If you just know, even though it's not gonna feel amazing in the moment, because... I don't know, it's just, I'm gonna say it, like, it feels amazing to just, like, kind of yell at your kid

in that moment, because you get to vomit all of your frustration, and just release it onto your kid. You know, like, it's gone now. It's hard to keep that feeling in your own body. It's so hard, it's like such an adult thing to do, to be like, okay. But, and you're not, then there's this narrative, oh, so you're not gonna say anything to your kid.

It's not like we're not gonna say anything, but so you're just letting, you're letting your kid get away with it. Again, there's this binary, right? Where again, we don't even, we don't put up with this anymore from CEOs. Like if someone in an office says something absurd to a CEO, we actually no longer think it's a good idea for a CEO

to like just scream and throw that people. First, we'd be like, you're not even able to lead. Sometimes you don't get to make your own decisions, you feel out of control, you had a bad day, a kid was bullied and you don't know about it, and they're just kind of up to the brim. And then in a calmer moment, when your kid is yelling at you and saying

you're the worst parent in the world for not letting me have 30 scoops of ice cream, whatever the ridiculous things my kids say as well, it's just not an effective moment for intervention. I think that's the point. And I think if you give yourself permission in that moment to say, this is what I say to myself, if it makes sense, I trust my parenting more than this moment.

I don't have to do all of my parenting in the next 30 seconds. So I can let it pass, and I can go to my kid later and say, look, first of all, you're upset. Probably about a sleepover, but I get it. It's just, it's probably annoying to be an eight-year-old and just not make all your own decisions. And I just wonder the next time I say to you

some version of a no, which is part of my job, because I actually love you so much that I'm willing to make decisions that I think are good for you, even if you're upset with me. That's actually how much I love you. What is another way you could tell me that you're pissed off? When you approach a kid in this way, which I call same team, it's very different than approaching your kid later and saying, that was totally... You don't respect me, as if this is about respect. Like, I don't know, you know? And you can't say that, and if you say that again,

I'm not letting you have your sleepover on Friday. Anyone's gonna shut down. Because it feels like you're looking at me like I'm a bad kid and I'm your enemy. But if you approach your kid same team, it's amazing, eight-year-olds, two-year-olds, they will participate. Could I say, I'm really bad kid and I'm your enemy. But if you approach your kids same team, it's amazing, eight year olds, two year olds, they will participate. Could I say, I'm really mad at you?

That would be amazing. How healthy, a healthy expression of anger. But you do say that. And then I do things with my kids just like sports. I practice, literally. If this was an issue in my house, I would say, look, this is gonna sound weird, let's role play. I'm gonna say to you something surprising.

That's a no. You role play with your kids? Yes. Okay, great. I think about someone trying to teach a kid how to make a layup, talking. Talking's great, but doesn't the kid have to like go through the muscle, you know, memory of it? I really think about emotion regulation skills

that concretely. Well, I do that with tone, because I'm trying to teach... True, I love a little sass, but I'm like, there's a point that it can get... Yeah. ...snarky or bitchy. Right.

But she doesn't know the difference, so I'm like, we do like the cadence in our voice. And I love that. I'm like, how would you feel if I'm like, get the ice cream or whatever? And I do, and she's like, okay, and then I'll do it, get the ice cream. And I just, it's the same sentence, but. Amazing. So I try to do that,

but I like this as well. Like what else are your kids going through? Is there like a behavioral hitting, stealing? I don't know. What's the latest thing? Well, Tatum, he was true to never had the terrible two phase. Tatum does, but he's on the tail end of it.

And I'm like, oh wow, this is amazing. Because it was just a tantrum for no reason, but like he would fall on the ground hysterically crying. I'm like, okay, this is, I had to figure out what these tools are because I wasn't used to that. But I would say it's okay. He's screaming, but I'm also talking to myself. One million percent.

Because I'm like, I will just die. Like, I'm like, what is happening inside? But I'm like, it's okay. I get it. Like, and I'm literally talking in this crazy voice, and like, we were frustrated. I didn't give you the toys, but it's really me talking to myself. But that's what it is, because if your number one tool

to teach your kid tools is how you regulate yourself, right, like when my kids were younger, okay? And they were like really having those... I don't know if Tatum was like this, but... Like when my kids were in the twos and 18 months and they had tantrums, like they were so lost. Like I was like, I don't know where you went, but you're not here.

Oh, yeah, they're totally... The song was so powerful, where I'd sing this song. Like, Jamie, Jamie, it's okay. Or Jamie, Jamie, I am here. Let's take a deep breath. And I was like, am I singing this for my kid? Am I singing this for me? And so many parents tell me,

you know, first of all, music is actually very powerful for regulation. And as soon as you're singing, you're not screaming. And the truth is, this mom was telling me, this is the most amazing tool because it helps me stay calm. But that is the tool to help your kid eventually like swimming. You don't give your kid one swim lesson and say, this isn't working.

We actually, it's amazing how long we pay for swim lessons and tolerate it. So if you think about emotion regulation skills as harder to learn than swimming, and we know that's true because none of us are particularly expert at it still, right, then it's a long tail, right? And so the skills we have. And then tantrums can be role played too.

Like, let's say my kid has a tantrum, or, right, I just have a children's book about hitting, right? Where every time my kid sees his sister have the truck, he just goes and hits her, okay? Or I would say, if that was my kid sees his sister have the truck, he just goes and hits her, okay? Or I would say, if that was my kid, okay, so I have to figure out what to do. And for example, if you give your kids something to do

instead of their bad behavior, they will generally improve their behavior pretty quickly. It would be like a boss saying to you, don't use this font. And you're like, but what font... Should I use? So just, okay, so you're not gonna hit. And I always think with hitting, you get angry

and you move towards someone. How cool would it be if we raised a generation where they get angry at someone? Literally, they learn how to move away. You buy yourself time and space, right? So I'd practice with my kids where I'd say, I'm gonna have you walk into the playroom and I'm gonna be holding up your favorite truck.

Like, I have the... That's what his sister did. She's a normal human. I have it. Such taunting. Right, let's not pretend that's gonna change overnight. I could work with her on something else too, but I'd do that and I'd say, and I want you to come in, and it's not that I don't want you to be mad. You're go... Again, we don't want our kid not to be mad.

When my kid is older, and I don't want you to be mad. You're, again, we don't want our kid not to be mad. When my kid is older and I don't know, they see someone steal their thing or something happen, I don't want them to think, whatever. Right. No, I'm allowed to feel angry. I hope by that point, I know how to cope. So I'd say to him, I'm gonna come in. You're gonna come in and I want you to go like this

to the wall. I want you, you're gonna see me with a truck and you're gonna back up and hug yourself. I can't even tell you how many times his teacher would tell me in school. Not right away, I don't wanna make this magic. It wasn't like, and then the next day he never hit. No, he hit the next day.

Let me just be clear, okay? He's a normal person. But over time, and then we'd switch, he'd hold up the truck and I'd say, oh, I want to wait. Right. Right? And his teacher's like, your son does the weirdest thing, but it's kind of amazing.

Like, what is this? Because guess what? You practice a layup a certain amount of times in practice, and your kid will make the layup when the clock is running out. But they're not gonna make a layup when the clock is running out if they're not practicing a layup when the clock is running out if they're not practicing a layup in the gym. So it's really kind of powerful to think, oh, like my kid's bad behavior isn't a character deficit, it's a skill deficit.

What skill would they need to do something else? Maybe I could teach them that skill. And I think that's so important for people to hear that. It's not a character deficit, it's a skill deficit. Yes. That is important. And same thing for us. I just wanna say, same thing for us,

when I yell at my kids when they complain about dinner, it's probably not about that. It's about, again, it's not a character deficit. I'm not a monster. Did I take care of my needs all day? Did I even sit on the couch for a second? Did I get the time on a Saturday where I said, no, mommy's alone in her room." And, okay, can I build

the skill of self-care or of talking to myself about what's going on before my feelings bubble up? Again, that's a skill deficit for me as a mom, not a character deficit. How can a parent set a limit? Say no firmly, but without damaging that family connection? I think this is a really false equivalence. So I would...

One of my favorite things to do with parents is, we all think we need answers to questions. If we can't find an answer to a question, the answer is generally that we need a new question. So I'm gonna shift the question to why is setting a boundary and your kid being upset actually a good thing for connection and family limits? Why is that?

Okay, kids, we all know. Like if I think about myself even as an adult and I'm at a party, I'm with you and you're like, Becky, this was great, come to this party tonight. And I'm just like a mess. I'm like yelling at everyone. I'm like, you're a fucking bitch. Like, I don't know, I'm just like in a mood. I don yelling at everyone. I'm like, you're a fucking bitch.

Like, I don't know, I'm just like in a mood. I don't know, okay? My husband was there. Okay? And I want you to picture him saying like, please stop doing that. We don't do that in this family. You'd be like, okay, Becky's out of her mind. And she's ruining all these potential relationships with people that I was trying to introduce her to.

I think an act of love for my husband, which is also possible, because he's much taller than me, would be like, I'm picking you up, and we're getting in an Uber, and we're leaving. And not because, not just because I'm like, I'm embarrassing you, I'm actually doing it

because I love you. Like, I'm doing it because I love you, and you were not in a place to be making solid decisions for yourself. And you'll be mortified later. Mortified later. Mortified like, when people around you who say they love you watch you self-destruct,

it's tricky, and it's especially tricky for a kid. Because like, isn't your job to protect me? Like, I think that line, my number one job is to keep you safe, which doesn't mean happy, okay? But safe, like, I can't even tell you how many people send me this thing on Mother's Day. I guess their schools say, like,

what is your mom's favorite color? What is your mom's job? And the kid writes to keep me safe. Which is like, this means they've heard it a million times. So, okay, here's this other story that to me really shows the power of limits. So, my private practice years ago,

I'm seeing this really snarky teenager. Like the first thing she said to me was like, do you have the oldest computer in the world? What kind of therapist are you? I was like, game on. You're like fun. Game on. I see the pain under your anger. Okay, and she was cutting.

Okay, she was cutting all over. And so I just was doing this intake. I was like, well, how long have you been cutting? Two years. I was like, you told me before been cutting? Two years. Mm. I was like, you told me before, I'm the first therapist you saw. Like, did your parents know?

And she's like, yeah. I was like, close that gap for me. And she got, this is literally what she said. She was, wow. My parents told me two years ago, I should go to therapy, and they were gonna take me to therapy. And I said, oh, so that means you think I'm fucked up. You basically think I'm messed up. And I'm gonna go, and they were gonna take me to therapy. And I said, oh, so that means you think I'm fucked up. You basically think I'm messed up.

And I'm gonna go and I'm gonna be silent and I'm gonna lie. And I'm just gonna waste all your money. Which most kids say this, by the way. Okay, and then there was just something in this moment where I just knew Becky, like, shut up, don't. Just hold, hold space for a second. And my heart is seriously racing, okay, and right now. And she, everything about her body changed

after like 30 seconds. And she started looking down. And when she looked up at me, she goes, can you believe they let me make that decision? Aw. That's literally what she said. And I think about that all the time. And not every kid is literally gonna say that.

Like, can you believe my parent, just because I was protesting, let me get on TikTok at age seven? Can you believe my parent let me stay up till 10 p.m. every night, and then I was a disaster every morning, and then had bad behavior at school, just because I protested that I didn't want to go to sleep. Kids need limits.

Again, at Goodman's Side, validation and boundaries are the two parts of your job. That is your job as a parent. Your job as a parent is not to keep your kid happy with you. That actually... sets them up, first of all, to be out of control. And to, I think, later on, feel like they didn't get

the container. We all grow in containers. It's like an egg without a shell. Yes. An egg without a shell is not even an egg. Like, the shell makes it the egg. And I think, and again, exactly how we set boundaries, that's different for every family and every kind. There's not one right way.

But that is definitely part of the equation of what kids need. Not everyone gets that, because especially nowadays, I think people just want to let their kids have freedom of choice for everything. And it's turned into what I believe, almost a competition. I want you to see how cool of a mom I am, or parent, dad, mom, whoever.

I've seen that. And I'm like, to me, that doesn't make you cool. I feel like your kid And I'm like, to me, that doesn't make you cool. I feel like your kid is out of control. And they're just, they're acting out because they want you to do something. I completely agree. And I think that like teenage girl, I just, I'll never forget how much she wanted her parents

to help her make a good decision. I always say when kids are struggling, parents aren't the problem. Parents are the solution. They just need to be empowered with education and resources. Like, they're the solution. And so, yes, I mean, with this one person I was seeing, I was saying, look, part of working together

is knowing I'm very invested in your health. And being invested in your health means we need to do also some work with your parents because that's the environment you're going home to. And if we do this together... And I would think they would want those tools. Yes. Parents do want tools.

I just think, again, this whole maternal instinct narrative, I can't even tell you how many women say to me, and they're like, I kind of want to go deeper and some education is true, but I keep hearing this voice. I should be able to figure it out by myself. Needing help is admitting failure. It's actually so interesting, I found dads these days don't have that. No. Dads are like,

have you ever heard of paternal instinct? No one said that. So they're like, I'm not even supposed to know what to do, so load me up, sure, I'll learn, right? And so I kind of feel hopeful, maybe even, because I think dads these days wanna be a lot more involved than generations before. So maybe together moms and dads, like we can all de-shame.

We all want tools, but we don't want tools given to us in a way that ever makes us feel bad about ourselves. Of course. I also think mom shaming is out of control. I know. And mom guilt for anything. Can we talk about that? Because I love talking about mom guilt. Mom, oh, please. I know. And mom guilt for anything. Can we talk about that? Cause I love talking about mom guilt.

Mom, oh please, mom guilt. Do you have it? Yes, like Mother's Day coming up. Love Mother's Day, love all these things. Do you though? No, no, no. But like love it all and thank you for making us a day. But to me and my kids are young,

so they're not gonna listen to this. But I'm like, my kids are young, so they're not going to listen to this, but I'm like, Mother's Day is, I don't want to have to, to mom pretend I'm doing all this stuff or like you're, I don't know. I'm doing something for you, which sorry, Mother's Day is bye-bye. See you guys at the end of the day. Like that would be the Mother's Day because it's the Mother's Day. Like to me, I don't understand what Mother's Day is, because it makes me do way more things. So then where's the guilt? Where's the... I feel bad saying that. I'm like, what a fucked up human am I? I've wanted kids for so long,

I have them. I've always wanted to celebrate Mother's Day, but now I'm like, oh, this isn't really what I thought it was going to be. Right. But now I'm like, oh, this isn't really what I thought it was gonna be. So, but now saying, actually Mother's Day would love to not have to mother today. Like is that so wrong of me to say, but I said it. Okay, so there's so much. I know. And I completely understand that. You're mothering on Mother's Day?

Like, who? This is just like every other day. I thought this was about me. Right. This is every other day I'm mothering. 100%. So there's, who... This is just like every other day. I thought this was about me. Right, this is every other day on mothering. 100%. So there's, okay, there's so many things about that. And again, it just shows our internalization of this motherhood is martyrdom. Ideal, right? Like, the idea like,

being the best mom is like pouring yourself out all the time. It's just so in the ether of our culture. But guilt, this is actually, like, I had this realization about guilt a little while ago, and I just couldn't undo it. So another version of mom guilt, I don't know if you hear it, is, okay, I wanna go take a walk by myself, or I wanna go out to generate my friends, but my kid is, like, clinging to me in the moment,

and then I end up feeling so guilty, I don't do it. Right? I want on Mother's Day to spend the day at a spa, and then see a friend, and then go to a movie by myself and then maybe, maybe put my kids to bed. Maybe not, but I feel too guilty. Okay. So, here's my thoughts about guilt. Guilt is a feeling you have when you act out of alignment with your values.

And guilt is a good feeling because, as an example, if I yelled at a taxi driver in New York City, that would be out of alignment with my values. Okay, maybe the person took the route that had more traffic, but I don't wanna yell at anyone, definitely not someone trying to help me. And if I had guilt, that's useful, because it's an uncomfortable feeling, and I would hopefully get to, huh, what led to that?

What could I do differently next time? Okay. Mom guilt, I don't think is guilt. Because I, okay, because I think at the core, these moments, I want to go take a walk by myself. I want to go out to dinner with a friend. I want a day to myself if I'm really celebrating myself on Mother's Day. I think if we said, is that in alignment with your values to take a walk by yourself sometimes people would say, yes. Is it in your values to once in a while have

dinner with girlfriends when your kids aren't right around? Yes. Is it in your values to once in a while have dinner with girlfriends when your kids aren't right around? Yes. Is it in your values to think, I deserve one day a year at minimum to say, I get a break and I can sell? I think these are all in alignment with our values. So it's like, well, what is this feeling? So what I think the feeling is, is our tendency as women to notice other people being upset

and kind of go, I'll take that feeling for you. I'll put it into my body. And I'll like metabolize it and call it guilt. It's not guilt. And a visual I find useful is like, let's say, let's say you want this on Mother's Day. And I'm guessing it's not true in Tatum. It'd be like, Chloe, you're a horrible mom,

because I don't know. But let's just say it's the proverbial people. Okay, okay. So then you're on one side of the tennis court and all these women, these judgy women are on the other side. And on your side of the court, you're like, I'm gonna get a day to do the spa and a movie by myself.

And I'm allowed to do that. And on their side, it's like, that's not being a good mom or whatever they'd say. To notice, wait, like, that sentence, those feelings might seem like they're this ball that's like coming over to my side of the court, but actually visually seeing that and going like this, like, not like this, like, not like this, but just like,

I'm gonna give that back to its rightful owner. That was actually not my feeling in the first place. Same thing, I'm going out to dinner, and this will happen, my daughter's like, you never put me to bed. I've literally been in bed for like 42 straight nights, like it's been 42 nights, right? So, but she's basically saying...

I have the bed guilt. Right, I wish you would put me to bed. And meanwhile, like my husband's home. Like, it. Right. I wish she would put me to bed. And meanwhile, like, my husband's home. Like, it's not like I'm like, put yourself to bed even. Like, she's 10, my husband's home. That's not guilt. Because actually in that moment, I do want to have dinner with my friends.

It's her feelings. And then what happens when we take on someone's feelings, not only do we call it guilt, and we don't do the thing we want, which makes us resentful and then rage at our kids, we actually deprive our kid of the opportunity to learn how to cope with that feeling. Because now I'm saying weird things to my kids. Like, don't you want me to have dinner with friends?

But so if I can visualize, like that's my daughter, those are her feelings, like, oh, they keep feeling like they come to me, like go over there, here's me in my desire to do something for myself. Once I give it back to her, like, go over there. Here's me and my desire to do something for myself. Once I give it back to her, I can actually empathize, which ironically helps us hold a boundary. You wish it was me putting you to bed.

You feel sad. I totally get that. And it's still this practice, it will still try to creep in as guilt, but when you can really say to yourself, wait, am I acting in this moment, like, in general, in line with my values? Like, you kind of have these different glasses, and you realize it's actually a totally different thing. I can be a good mom who sometimes wants the night off.

Right? Because I think when it digs in us, to some degree, there's so many things, these small things, where we just start telling ourselves the story of... unconsciously, I'm a bad mom. Right? Like, I yelled at my kid, okay, like, unconsciously, I'm a bad mom, right? Like, I yelled at my kid, okay, like, that doesn't make me a bad mom. Like, I actually think if I wanna get on a pedestal and, like, scream about anything, it's about repair.

Like, that's the most important thing is repair. And you can't repair if you don't mess up. And so you have to mess up to get good at repair. And yelling doesn't make you a bad mom. And missing bedtime doesn't make you a bad mom. And wanting Mother's Day to yourself doesn't make you a bad mom and missing a bedtime doesn't make you a bad mom and wanting Mother's Day to yourself doesn't make you a bad mom. Just like hitting doesn't mean you have a bad kid and lying doesn't mean you have a bad kid and having the only kid who clings to you at the birthday party doesn't mean your kid is never going to have friends and is a loser, right? Well, I love that you say, like, you think all kids are good, I do too. Because I think also you hear so much like,

don't be a bad boy or things like that. And I don't know why. And I'm so not like the most gentle person. Like I love boundaries, I love structure. I'm pretty militant with the schedule. Like that's me, but I can't stand, like don't say do you wanna be a bad boy or a good boy? Like I don't like that.

Well, I think it gives me like the ick too, because I think another against principle, which is more than a script act, like that, we have this good inside approach, is separating identity, who you are, from behavior, which is what you do. These two things have traditionally been collapsed with kids. Don't be a bad boy, when you're really trying to say to someone

it's like, don't push a kid at a playground or whatever. It's like you're talking about a behavior, and you're assuming everything. Which doesn't mean pushing is okay to playground. But if I think instead, wait, let me separate these two things. I have a good kid, I'm gonna assume I have a good kid, who has a pushing problem. I'm not gonna even say don't be a bad boy at a playground, I'm probably just gonna have a good kid who has a pushing problem. I'm not gonna even say, don't be a bad boy at a playground.

I'm probably just gonna stay a lot closer to them and make sure they don't push a kid off the swing. Again, I'm gonna actually be like this leader, right? And so, actually, we're talking about it with moms and kids, but separating identity, who we are, from behavior, which is what we do for us and our kids, is a profound tool of regulation. Because then I can say,

okay, Becky, I'm a good mom who just screamed at her kids. Okay, let me take a deep breath. Both are true. Now, what do I want to do about it? Versus if I'm in the bathroom, I'm a monster. I messed up my kid forever. If anybody saw one on my house, no one would believe it. Do you think I'm gonna repair with my kid

or make any good decision? I'm spiraling in shame. I'm probably gonna be cranky with my kids the next day. I mean, it's just that one moment can then take over a week. And so, same thing with our kid. You know, saying, I have a good kid who, right? Versus, I mean, I say this stuff about my kids sometimes at night too, like,

oh, they're so difficult, they're so annoying, they're so spoiled, they're so selfish. Like, wait, I have a good kid who's having a hard time tolerating frustration and not getting their way. Now, all of a spoiled, they're so selfish. Like, wait, I have a good kid who's having a hard time tolerating frustration and not getting their way. Now all of a sudden, there's a world of things, again, a skill probably, I can teach them, instead of a character spiral to get lost in. Do you have any tips for mom guilt?

Because I think people need to hear that. A hundred percent. So literally, this visual, I would ask a mom right now to say, okay, what do I feel guilty that I just did? Or where is mom guilt coming up in the future? Right? Not again, again, not about, I acted out of alignment with my values, but it's usually around some moment

where we're actually taking care of ourselves. So, think about that moment. Maybe it's, my girlfriends always go on this trip on a weekend and I always say no because I feel too guilty. That's a good... And I would ask yourself, this is a tool, is it, is that because it's actually guilt, like it's out of alignment with my values to spend three days every couple years with my friends?

Or is that because I'm just thinking so much about my partner and my kids, the different things they're gonna say to me, and I'm kind of taking that on. And then truly, I would close your eyes, I'd picture yourself on a tennis court, and instead of the net, picture like a glass wall. Because if there's a glass wall,

when you picture your partner saying like, oh, I don't know, I've been working all week, you know? Or your kid saying, what? You're gonna miss my soccer game? You know? Then you can realize, wait, their feelings are gonna seem like they come to me, but that glass wall can, like, put them back.

That visual gives you space to get out of this reactive mode. So that's number one. Number two, I think that sentence is a tool. It's a mantra. I'm a good mom who... I'm a good mom who wants to spend a weekend with friends. Yes. And then number three, just keeping in mind, and if it helps to imagine me whispering this to you,

if it's hard to kind of develop this voice immediately on your own, like, it is a really good thing for kids to have parents who take care of themselves. The model of a relationship we form with our kids becomes the model they take into adulthood. Not just for parenthood, for actually romantic relationships. They take it, that's what they think things should look like.

And so, ask yourself, do I want, if I have a daughter, for her to think love means never taking care of herself, do I want her to say, my mom loved me so much that she ran herself into the ground? I don't want my kids to say that. No. I actually want my kids to say, and they'll never actually say this, but if they did, if they're poetic,

I'd want them to say, my mom showed me it was possible to really love someone else and really love yourself at the same time. And the fourth tool I'll say, because this is a fun topic for me, is... We often think discomfort in our body is a sign we're doing something wrong. It's always a sign we're doing something new.

New. It's like if you've been down one ski slope a million times, I'm going for a walk, oh fine, I'm not. I'm gonna go wait in the front, okay, I'm not. I'm not gonna go out to dinner. Then, even if it's not working for you, it's very comfortable to not take care of yourself because that's a ski slope you've been down 20 billion times and you're like, I just can point my skis and the rest happens.

If you think about skiing and you're like, I'm a hell of skiing and I'm like in powder and I've never been on those tracks and your friend who's a skier said, but that feels harder than the run I've done a million times. You'd be like, no shit, like I've never done it before. So you're gonna have a voice that says, this is wrong, I'm selfish.

But if you tell yourself, first of all, anticipate that voice and remind myself, this is a sign I'm doing something new, not something wrong. Oh, like so many things open up as possibilities. So I wanna talk to you about confidence and what you think confidence is, especially in kids. So I love this topic because I think the way

that we're kind of told what confidence is, or just the way that it's portrayed, to me, not only gets it wrong, but again, if we're looking to build something, and we don't have an accurate definition of what that is, sometimes, like, we build in the wrong direction. And I think this idea that confidence means feeling good about yourself, it couldn't be more toxic.

I do not think that's what confidence is. I really think confidence is self-trust. Which is very different, because, like, I went to Duke, and I always remember this girl who's in one of my early seminars. She was, I'm sure you met these people too, you're my early seminars. I'm sure you've met these people too. You're like, you're just smarter than the rest of the people here. These are just true things.

It's fine, let's just call a spade a spade. She was so smart. And we were in this class, and I generally could follow what was happening, but there was this moment where I was like, I literally have no idea what the professor is talking about. Now, when it was small enough class that you could raise your hand, but I was just looking around,

and I was like, I don't know, figure it out. And I have the chills again, like, this girl raises her hand, and she said, sorry, and sorry to all of you guys, this is a little annoying, but I do generally follow what's happening, and I have no idea what you've been talking about for the last couple of minutes. Like, is there any way it does seem important, and I wanna know it, could you just go back and say it again?

I was like, that was baller. That was baller. Like, that there any way it does seem important and I wanna know it? Could you just go back and say it again?" I was like, that was baller. That was baller. Like, that is confidence. And that's such an important differentiation. Because I think in that moment, I wasn't as confident as I would have been like, as I would have wanted to be, because I was trying to make myself feel good. I was like, oh, it's fine. I guess it doesn't matter. She was so confident that she could trust her confusion.

She trusted it enough and must have also been able to hold another two things. I can be a smart person who's confused. And still ask questions. Exactly. And from that point on, I just started thinking. I remember in college, what is confidence? Because that example really, really stuck.

So let's take a moment that might happen with our kids. Our kid comes home and says, I'm the only one in my class who can't read. like, really, really stuck. So, let's take a moment that might happen with our kids. Our kid comes home and says, I'm the only one in my class who can't read. Okay. And I think, to some degree, we have the urge to say we believe confidence building will come from saying, like, but you're so good at math,

and everyone else stinks at math. Like, whatever we say in that moment. Or, right, but everyone reads at their own pace. And it's not about those things damaging your kids, but to some degree, like, I think about this, right, but everyone reads at their own pace. And it's not about those things damaging your kids, but to some degree, like, I think about this, like, feelings bench having a lot to do with confidence and resilience. Like, our kid is kind of wandering around this garden,

and there's all these benches of experiences and feelings. And right now, my kid is on the, I'm the only one who can't read bench. Which I think, Chloe, you and I know is just, I'm noticing other people have things I don't bench. Or I feel jealous or I feel, Chloe, you and I know is just, I'm noticing other people have things I don't bench, or I feel jealous, or I feel behind bench, which is kind of a bench you're probably gonna be on at various times throughout your life.

And we have this urge to do one of two things. We either see this, like, sunnier bench, what we think of as confident, we're like, just come over here. You're an amazing soccer player. Come here at me. Or we do this thing where we, like, try to convince our kid

that their bench isn't their bench, which when you say it, that concretely doesn't make sense. Like, that can't be true, right? You didn't notice what you're telling me you noticed. Like, which makes a kid doubt themselves. Or convincing them to go in the sunny bench makes them think that there's something dangerous about this experience.

Like, this bench must be bad because my parent will not sit on it with me. And so I remember this experience, right? And with my kid, it honestly wasn't about reading, but there's always this, I'm the last, I'm the slowest kid in my class, I'm the worst one at soccer or whatever, I'm the only one who doesn't have this.

And to me, confidence actually comes for my kids' increasing ability to feel like, even when I go through this hard thing, I trust it. I believe it's real. And like, I believe it's okay to be me while I'm having it. And that's something kids are inherently born with, where they kind of absorb from us. Is my parent scared of this feeling I'm having?

Does my parent need to avoid it? Does my parent want to be with me, even when this thing is true? Mm-hmm. And again, this is not a way of saying that you should say to your kid, like, you're really bad at reading. Like, no, that's definitely, like, we can do a lot better than that. But I do like to make things concrete.

And I think confidence and resilience kind of like, there are these like three lines that I think every parent should have in their back pocket for these moments. And my husband, by the way, said, like, he would like if I use these three lines with him. So I guess they're just the human line. Okay, tell us please. I'm the only one in my class who can't read.

So picture a kid on this bench, picture sitting with them, just saying, I'm so glad you're talking to me about this. I do love that. I'm so... Because what you're really saying is something deep from an attachment perspective. You're saying, the version of you who's slow at reading,

I still want to be in a relationship with that part of you. It's like it... And then you... I'm gonna cry. Like, usually, when you give something like that to a kid, they're willing to tell you more, because they're like, I guess it's safe. You're not scared of fear.

And then, to me, the most confidence building thing you can say, because a kid will then say, yeah, like they gave out all the books, and I got this like, clearly like little kid book, and every other kid got a chapter book. And whether it's true or not, it actually doesn't matter if there's, like, one other kid. Your kid's experience was that.

Right. Right? And then the second line, after I'm so glad you're talking to me about this, is just, I believe you. Aww. I think that's the most confidence building phrase there is for a kid. It's actually what builds our confidence.

Yes, of course. Was that a weird thing that my boss said to me? Was that a little creepy? Like, if you're able to say to yourself, first of all, I'm so glad I'm recognizing this. And I believe myself. That did feel off. Right? So, so glad you're talking to me about this. I believe you. And then the third is just, tell me more. And then what happened?

And then what happened? Because if you are, like, your kid's benchwarmer, I'm gonna support it, right? Then what happens when they kind of play out the story, I've really noticed with my kids, they get off the bench before you do. Or just kind of like, can I have a snack? And you're like, oh, that's that. And then the next time they're on that bench,

which might not be about reading, but it will be about even when they're 20, like someone's gonna get a promotion before them. Someone's gonna have a bigger house than them. Someone's gonna get married and they wanted to get married and thought they were and they feel behind. Like these things are just like,

your kid is going to be confident and resilient through that experience because they've actually encoded in their body. You're being there with them. They're not alone. I think everyone should write those three things down and use them. And like you said, even with adults,

it doesn't have to just be children. No. Because all of us, when you're saying that, I'm like, thank you. There's so many more layers to confidence in the depth of it. And it's such a beautiful thing. But I think we all think it's more like aesthetically.

That's right. I do think long-term, and I'm just gonna use my daughter, but I picture my daughter one day... being in a situation, I'm gonna say with someone, and it's like, I don't know, come on, come home with me. Come home with me. Come on, you're making a big deal out of nothing. Like, come on, we're just having fun. And I mean, I really have the chills.

I'm like, if she, at that point, she'd be like, well, what do I know about trusting myself? Do I make too big of a deal out of things? Should I just feel good in this moment? Or do I know that when I have a little bit of a like, mm, I don't know about this feeling, have I learned that I can trust myself? And I can be confident to say, I'm not comfortable.

Maybe another layer of like, get away from me. You know, that's what I want for her. But you're so right in all of these things now. I don't think people realize how much they prepare you for later. That's right. And the other side of that I just wanna get ahead of is the like, we all have this, oh, so my kid's just gonna go home with someone because I messed him up. No, no, no.

And it's actually an amazing thing, no matter how old your kid is, how cool if you can go to your kid and say, hold on, just hold on a second, this might seem out of the blue, but I was listening to this podcast, whatever it is, and yes, I was learning about parenting because that's important and it doesn't come naturally, and I was learning just like you learn about things.

But, and it never ends. And it never ends, thank goodness, the learning and the parenting never ends. You know, there have been moments when you've told me. That's what I meant, the parenting, the learning too. Like there have been moments when you told me things that are upsetting. And I think sometimes I've optimized

for trying to make you feel better, instead of for helping you trust that you really were upset about things and you have the right to be. And you might look at me now and say, Mom, you're being so weird, I don't know what you're talking about, but I know what I'm talking about.

And I'm gonna try to do that a little differently. You know, I recently asked a group of us in this live event, and I said, I want you to raise your hand if your parents repaired with you. Not like, I'm sorry you feel upset, that is not a repair. And not, I'm sorry I yelled, but if you put on your shoes the first time, it wouldn't have happened. That's also not a repair.

But just like, I'm sorry I did this thing. I learned I would like to do it differently. Zero people. Zero people. Zero people raised their hand. Wow. And I just think we have this also opportunity as this generation of parents to say, learning about parenting doesn't mean trying to be perfect.

Just like if I learned Mandarin. I wouldn't say to Chloe, I'm learning Mandarin so I can speak Mandarin perfectly. And you know what language I'd go back to speaking when I'm stressed? English! Right? But it doesn't mean my Mandarin is like all lost. And so, what if we're not the first generation to get it right all the time? That's also icky.

I don't want my kid to think love is someone getting it right all the time. Also unrealistic. But if we're the first generation who really goes to our kids in certain moments and says some version of, I'm sorry, I handled something this way, I wanna do it differently, that is such a gift to our kids.

It's the best gift. I love that. Is there anything else? I feel like we've covered so much, but... I really think if there's one thing a parent can take from this, and that can really stick with them. And it's really the one thing I tell myself every day is like, Becky, I'm gonna get really good at repair. And so if you're getting really good at repair, you have to mess up.

Like, there's no way to get good at the thing that repairs the mess up if you didn't do the first thing. And so I do like to add levity to like help myself through these hard moments. And so sometimes I yell at my kids or I say some words and I'm like, I promise myself, I would never say those, but they fly out of my mouth. I'm like sitting on the toilet

or wherever I'm trying to recover. And what I will try to say to myself is, okay, Becky, wait, remember, like I'm trying to get good at repair. You can't repair unless you mess up. So step one is messing up. And so like crushed it, crushed it, did it, did it. You know how like everyone's like, the first step is the hardest step. People say that, like... Crushed it. Crushed it. Did it. Did it. You know how, like, everyone's like,

the first step is the hardest step. People say, I did the first step! I did it! All I have to do is the second step. And then I really do think about myself as the cycle breaker. Like, my kid will know that the people who love you the most sometimes can't regulate themselves. That's not your fault, although that does happen. And you can actually expect those people,

you should expect those people when that happens, to not make up some story about it being your fault, but to come to you maybe in time and to take accountability. JANELLE Right. I think it's smart to explain that too. Like, maybe not right away, but in time. Hopefully, they will want to repair. STACEY That is how kids get good at apologizing. I think, like if everyone listens,

who listens to this today, repairs with their kid today, I would really make a bet that teachers, be like the weirdest thing is happening in our schools. Like the kid who usually just like goes to the corner after bad behavior, I heard this kid go to this other kid and just say, I'm sorry I took your blocks. Like I really think that will happen. It is a ripple effect.

It's a ripple effect because think about what we hold in a relationship when we feel like there was a moment that didn't feel good and we didn't get a repair. You hold that. You do. And we act it out. Really until you get that repair. Until you get it.

It can be 10 years. That's right and I think as adults, a lot of the reality is like we have to repair with ourselves or like tell ourselves the words that maybe we never got from our parents. Although that can still be really healing. So I think that's the thing I wanna leave parents with. If repair is hard for you as a parent,

to me, what that really tells me is repair was never done for you when you were a kid. No wonder it feels that hard because it's completely new. Like you might be the first person in the entire lineage of your, all the generations before. To say like, this changes with me. That's a big weight. No wonder it feels really hard.

It's not cause you're selfish. It's not cause you're cold hearted. It's actually cause you're doing something completely cycle breaking. And so the one secret that I want to not be a secret is before you repair with your kid, you actually have to repair with yourself. That's the missing step.

You have to be able to say to yourself, I'm not a monster, because if not, you won't be able to look at the thing that you did. Right. I'm a good parent who did something I'm not proud of. And the best news is I can do the second thing that I can feel not proud of. And the best news is I can do the second thing that I can feel really proud of.

Everyone, no matter how old or young you are, can implement that into their life. Yes. Yes. Dr. Becky, thank you so much. Honestly, this was such a true, I could talk to you for hours and hours and I have a list of questions, but.

I will be coming back then. Part two. Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank you.