Upstream - S1E16.5: The Hunt for Red October [UNLOCKED]

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

This is a bonus episode originally released on Sept. 12 2021, unlocked to kick off our Jack Ryan series! - - - Alright, you know it, we know it. We need to pay tribute to our dear Old Man Connery and see off the Cold War in the form of watching an actual good movie, the Hunt for Red October. Join us as we discuss Tim Curry's russian accent, a criminally young Alec Baldwin, and at the end, the reason the end of the cold war felt like the end of history at the time, and some musings on how modern wars never get movies where they are treated with the same reverence that the Cold War did. We got our wonderful producer Nate on this one, you can find him on twitter at https://www.twitter.com/inthesedeserts and follow his podcast Hell of a Way to Die, a leftist millitary podcast by and for veterans at https://www.twitter.com/hellofaway *WEB DESIGN ALERT* Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind our website). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/ Find us at https://killjamesbond.com and https://twitter.com/killjamesbond

We have to get out of here. Viet comrades and welcome to the good ships Smirts Yunam. We are the flagship submarine of not just the Soviet Union, but the Soviet Union that exists exclusively in the heads of white American Liberals. I am Captain Devon. I am directing the state of the Arts submarine to the east coast of America, where we will use mind control powers to make them elect a fucking Gito. Joining me is...

Um... ...it's... ...Homeradevice. Come on, let's go and train. I'm trying to figure out what rank you are. Your uniform is frankly quite confusing to me. Captain Major left-hand on commando. Great.

Great. Fantastic. Also with me is hype lieutenant Abigail. She has the most important job on this vessel. She stands on the bridge and breathlessly says they will give you the order of landing for this comrade. And I have any decision is made no matter how many. And finally, set at Zereda desk, masterfully isolating the sound of an enemy vessel from the background noise, which is me vacuuming bumping the microphone, refusing to turn Zereda off. He's comrade producer, Nidzbethay.

Yeah, hello, I was very confused when seeing Team Curry's face in this film, because I remember him wearing a dress and a lucky horror picture. So, and I got excited in a way I could not explain, but it made me very angry. You will receive the raw death of Kronstein for this captain. Here you have defected to this glorious imaginary nation from Pic dogg America. Welcome, welcome. glorious imaginary nation from Piccadougamerica. Elcal, Elcal. Who yet? The Dupryutra and welcome to a bonus episode of Kill James Bond. We're actually may have guessed from our delightful cold open. We are watching. We are going back at 3.22am for more old Connery.

In the form of Hunt for Red October, a genuinely good movie. Ah, so good. And also a genuine good Game Boy game on the original Black and White Game Boy, which opened with a chiptune version of the USSR national amp version. Now there's your Horned Holidays. So good. Oh my God, we are going to get to the Horned Holidays.

Because it's my attention. Because this is based on a novel by Tom Clancy. It's my attention that Tom Clancy is the most important and least examined American cultural figure of his time. That's sort of like end of Cold War, beginning of war on terrorism thing. I simply cannot stop thinking about the bit in one of the Tom Clancy novels where he puts a fucking American football in the hands of a dying terrorist.

There's like, this is a fucking pigskin, baby. You're not going to heaven. Yeah. It's incredible. Tom Clancy, who has written about the KGB agents trying to shoot the Pope, forming like private intelligence agencies with twins. The guy, his recurring protagonist, Jack Ryan, who is in this, who starts in this as a CIA analyst becomes president over the course of about 50 books.

A Japanese guy does 9-11 to the Capitol. Tom Clancy books are wild. I was going to say it's funny to me that this, we were talking about this right after the 20th anniversary of 9-11, because I can recall the extent to which people in American news media, not just in popular culture, were sort of like, does Tom Clancy have some explanation?

Like, he was responsible. So they were like, they were really, really fixated on this idea that Tom Clancy must have known something important about like the workings of like the terrorist mind or whatever, because because debt of honor is not more about the Japanese guy Kamikaze and the US capital. People were like, well, that 11 was kind of that, wasn't it? Yeah. The guy actually predicted 9-11, but for the wrong country.

But this was, I mean, so did the Super Mario Brothers movie, if you want to get into it. Tom Clancy's super Mario Brothers movie if you want to get into Tom Clancy's super Mario Brothers movie. No, but this was this was Tom Clancy's first novel hunt for Red Ops over before this. He was just kind of like a a war nerd something to which I can relate. He was a guy who had always wanted to be in the military and couldn't get in, bad eyesight, apparently. And so, well, yeah. And so he just kind of became, he interested in what would now, I guess, be called like open source intelligence,

but back then was called being a fucking nerd, which is, you know, a lot of shit that came out of the military industrial complex got just published openly and got disseminated. You could buy and read like proceedings of, you know, such and such as, such as the Oral Journal or whatever, and would be in there in like full color,

but nobody really understood that. And so Tom Clancy, by reading this, developed this sort of reputation as like, oh, he knows a lot of shit about this. It's just like, it's the discussion Nate and I have had where every time you're like, well, how come you know this shit about the military? I'm like, well's the discussion Nate and I have had where every time you're like, well, how come you know this shit about the military? I'm like, well, autism is a development.

It's primarily character. You can sit and writing a novel, Alice. I don't have the gift that Tom Clancy has for highly sort of technical details. That's what distinguishes him. He was incredibly popular, like Reagan read this book. He had a lot of readers in the CIA, and a lot of readers in the CIA, who again, just fully did not grasp how much of this stuff

was in the public domain, and we're just like, how does he know this about us? So basically, the secret to his success, literally the volume of James that's shown in the establishing shot in Jack Ryan's London office or whatever. That's it. Well, we published this shit every year, but we didn't think anyone would actually be autistic enough to read it.

Yeah, I, there are some details in this before we start. There are some things, and I, I may pause as we're talking through certain things because there were some details for me as ground-pounder who was supposed to do helicopter nerdship periodically for my job. There are things in this that I was really impressed by the attention to detail that made it into the movie. And I realized that the Navy was like, as I skimmed

from Wikipedia, the Navy thought this might be able to do for submarines, what Top Gun did for fighter pilots, although I don't know if this film would really make me want to be on a submarine. And so I think that there was obviously some technical assistance there in, but it is very interesting how much attention to detail there is in sort of like even in kind of like prosaic ways, but like that would stop, you know, in a regular film would be like, oh, this magical thing we can do with magic, whereas in real life, you kind of in this film as like real life, you kind of encounter the technical limitations of a thing that can be done, but isn't necessarily

easily doable, or even doable at all outside of the best of circumstances. Well, socially doable safely, as we see it. Exactly, exactly. Yes, true. So, I have so many good things to say about this film, and I'm excited to hear our summary. Well, we start in the icy cold of Russia, Holiani Inlet, where we see first shot of the movie, Old Sean Connery. I think frankly, we owe it to Sean Connery

to do one good, old man Connery movie. That is not one. Yeah, it was between this and Indiana Jones and this was more related to our whole view. Yeah, so Sean Connery is a, the commanding officer of a Soviet ballistic missile submarine. And we see him talk to his, his officers and like his crew as they are leaving Russia and the whole time He and everyone else is speaking Russian now you may remember Sean Connery's Jai Amash Oriental languages It's right his Russian not better. I'll be. Yeah, it's about as good as the Russian

that I spoke during the cold open, which is the same mainly gibberish. Yeah, you know, he tries. I mean, Sam Neal, who is his executive officer, his second and command, his Russian is a lot better, and I'm always thrilled to see Sam Neal and any I love Sam Neal so much every time he was on screen I was going, hell yes, Sam Neal and every time he wasn't on screen I was going, where is Sam Neal? Show me him show me the boy Mean all the man Connery voice the American pig doc shall have their day Meanwhile we get to see two of this films's three speaking female characters in one scene. That's right.

We meet Jack Ryan, a CIA analyst, stationed in London, played by a frankly shockingly young Alec Baldwin. Oh, truly? Literally, just say goodbye to his wife and daughter. That's the whole role in this movie. Did he pick up who his wife is played by? No, who is this wife? Gates McFadden, aka Dr. Crusher from Southwark Enterprise.

Oh, I missed that. Oh shit. If you have that kind of nerd, Dr. Crusher walks into the scene, has two lines in an English accent and then leaves the movie. I knew she looked familiar, but it absolutely could not put my finger on it. There you go. I wouldn't miss a such a next generation detail like that.

It's a perfect scene. Tom Clance, sorry, Jack Ryan. Jack Ryan. Frankly, incredibly incredible that this was Alec Baldwin. Myself, Michael, for a neither of us realized as Alec Baldwin until right at the end, when we were like, wait a second.

Because I've never seen him young. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's looking quite good. He has a little interaction with his daughter and then his wife walks into a scene and goes, tell her they've got a fucking bed, we've got to go now and then that's the end. Yeah, and the main thrust of this is that he has to,

he's been called urgently to go from London to America. The flight to you have speaks to him. And the last time a woman in this movie speaks, we get a little talk in SQ moment, we're in order to establish that in just both smart and a little bit arrogant. The flight attendant tells him, we're like, he's trying to sleep,

and he can't sleep on the plane. And she asks him about it, and he says, I don't like the turbulence. And she making him about it and he says, I don't like the turbulence. And she making conversation says, turbulence. And Jack Ryan explains to a woman who works on airplanes. What is turbulence? It's so gay. He likes full explains her response to just like, all right.

And she just explains that. She's seen anyway by the end of women. Turbulence. Solar radiation eats theorists. Crushed. Warmare rises.. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right.

He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right.

He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. He's just right. Oh, you fucking asshole. But we established that he doesn't like being in the air.

Yes, and he can't sleep on a plane. But he gets, he gets to the US where he immediately is taken to CIA headquarters. And I improved this movie by a full letter grade because it's got James Earl Jones in it. Yeah, fucking does. I'm not sure if he's going to be like he does. Director of the CIA or like a director of intelligence, but yeah. He's Jack Ryan's boss. Jack Ryan's boss.

He's a deputy director. I see. I see. Vice Admiral James Greer. Yes. And he's, I mean, I love James O'Jones in anything. He's very cool in this film. He's very good.

Get the drop here of James L. Jones saying, big son of a bitch, please. Big son of a bitch. LAUGHTER He still lives that life. What's good? Yeah. In reference to a brand new submarine of the Soviets,

they've obtained photographs In reference to a brand new submarine, the Soviets have just made it. They have obtained photographs of a submarine called Red October being built. And this is a ballistic missile submarine, a typhoon class, but a variant of it that's larger that no one's ever seen before. And it has these strange sort of symmetric doors or hatches either side of the screw is running longer tuned only down the ship. And they didn't know what it is, but it's just launched to see and they're like, hmm, we think maybe the Russians have developed something new, because of course we're in the Cold War. This this song came out in 1990. Yeah. And

it's like so. So we're still 84, though, yeah, because can turn it away still the premier. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh, yeah. So Ryan's job is to go and find out what these doors do. Yeah. Meanwhile, we cut to the middle of the North that line out with these fucking doors. Yeah. Yeah. Work for the CIA incredibly glamorous.

You see there's door, Ask our door guy about this. Which is very funny because he's forced to go to the naval yard to meet the door guy, his old friend, the door guy who explains doors to him. Yes. It's so good. It's like him to the fucking airplane, Stuart asked explaining turbulence. This guy is just like, all right, so what a door is, is it lets you enter or exit. It's like a wall, but you put it on a hinge or it slides. Yeah, you open it, the same things behind it every time maybe. Just a series of airplane jokes. But the thing is, the thing is, Jack, when you close that door, that space is still there. It doesn't disappear. You can just open it back up again. It's still there. Just like, oh, shit.

So before we see the door guy, we have to go to see. Yes, and past sea, there are two submarines. There was the red October, which we know about, where everybody is still speaking Russian to each other. And the USS Dallas, which is a Los Angeles class, US submarine. And we see that they're like, they're sonar crew, they're training a new guy. And they have a sonar off. They have banter. Yeah, they have banter. Like the Russian submarine is so serious, but the American Navy famously a chill and cool

place to work. Well, everyone's like, hey, Jonesy, like, I was like, I think it's kind of the opposite, right? Like, I was also laughing at the way they do the Russian sub, which is fully like you stand to attention for every officer who goes past you, everyone is wearing a tunic's buttoned all the way up. And it's like the Russian submarine is darker on me inside the desert. Yeah, it's like a cling on ship.

It's so cute. Unlike Tom Clancy, I won't pretend to have firsthand knowledge, but second hand knowledge tells me that the second hatches close submarine cruts tend to wear anything except uniform. Like, oh, yeah. Yeah, I believe so. I've heard this.

Mostly in reference to the also great movie, Dust Boots, in which like a bunch of Nazi U-boat guys just wear whatever shit they want, which is great. Anyway. So it'd be hard to wear the uniform all the time. Yeah, it's hard as crammed all the air is full of gasoline and shit, yeah, no, absolutely not. So we established that the USS Dallas

has a sort of an ice cold captain who I thought was Richard Dreifus for a second, but it isn't, but looks a lot like that. Yeah, it's, I don't know, I got this, it's Scott Glenn. Yeah. Very, very good in this role. I've seen him in other parts before or kind of character actor roles, but I think he really sells this character as this sort of, you know, reasonable but incredibly flinty guy. He's wearing the sort of like Richard Dreyfus, like your dad glasses too.

But he looks like Stanley McChrystal level of like, I eat one meal a day and run 15 miles every morning. Like, yeah. Which is a type, let's be honest, and he's just got that. It's tough to do that on a summer, right? Yeah, exactly. treadmill man. And fucking treadmill man. It's fucking treadmill. Yeah.

And they also have this incredibly gifted, uh, sovant sonar operation named, uh, Seaman Jones, I believe played by Courtney Vance. Mm-hmm. Doing doing a great job. Uh, who, Cynthia, let me know is married to Angela Bassett. So a little bit of crossover for, uh, for a shot shooter where we watched strange days. Angela Bassett chokes you and helps you get over your problems and her husband is the fucking master of all things sound related.

Yeah, the the chief of the bone tells the new guy a story about how Jones inadvertently defund the entire Pacific submarine fleet with Paganini by playing it through the fucking sonar, which was fun, it was charming. King. Yeah, it was fun at all. They're interested because they detect a new submarine out there in the water, which is the red October.

But not yet. Meanwhile. Not yet, because we have to have the scene where, so Sean Connery, Captain Marka Ramius of the Red October, has to meet in his cabin with the ship's political officer, who is actually surname Putin, by the way. That's very funny. Yeah, that's very funny. It was like Putin's waiting for you, Locke, and I was like freaking Putin.

Yeah, played by... Well, he got it. Yeah, played by. What's he gonna do? Played by Peter Firth, who will be relevant if we ever do the UK SB&R TV show Spooks. But yeah, so he's possible. He kind of like, bleakly threatens Ramias, he's been like going through the things in his cabin. Yeah, it's implied that the KGB might have people on the boat like spying on-ramers.

Yeah. He says his line reads his privacy is not a major concern in the Soviet Union, and I know it's say, damn, imagine that. Yeah, that's crazy. It's just an ideology and I was going to say, yeah, there are definitely some scenes, not massively through this film, but they are there periodically where you were reminded that this film was made in 1990. It's like, we look at it, do inform you, communism is extremely bad. You're not allowed to go between states of state or go fishing in communism.

The best line with that is one that Putin sort of lands on Ramias, because Ramias asks him, how many agents does the KGB have on my boat? And he says, your boat cutting. Yes. This vessel belongs to the people of the Soviet Union. Also, give me your toothbrush. I was lost when I said personal property is different from public property. Hand it over a bit. Also take this estrogen, now you are transgender. So there's something to discuss here because it's pointless for those of you who haven't watched the red October. Ramius is not the antagonist of this movie. He's very much for Duturagonist, but at this point in the movie, they're still trying to get you to think he's the evil

guy. So there is so much going on, but it's just like this guy's going to fucking nuke us. Like, who didn't's been going through his belongings and he's got a book where he's written the fucking bit of an eye on book. Revelation about all the other night. And like that, whatever. Death to sure. The way they think themselves back out of the hole of making them speak Russian in the opening. It's to zoom in really close on piece of earth's mouth, mid-sentence while he's speaking Russian,

and then zoom back out and he switches to English and everybody else is speaking English. It's really good. It's one of my favorite, I love little shots like this, because there's a list of this, if you've ever seen a film, Judgment at Neuronburg, and there's a really fantastic shot that's quite similar to this, where the action takes place in a courtroom and the characters are speaking German. We are behind the glass where the translators are sitting and they're like giving the English translation and the camera pans up. And then as we come over the top of the glass, the actor switches mid-sentence into English.

It's so good. I love little shots like this, but yeah, it's a lovely, lovely little bit of cinema. I have seen this movie many times and that's one of the few details that I remember from my first viewing. And yeah, it really is memorable. It's well done because obviously you realize that it would be a bit of a burden to have the entire film in Russian when it's all English, Scottish, American actors. Yeah.

And bear in mind stuff that's like meant to be in spoken Russian, but it's done these days, doesn't bother doing that. Like Chernobyl didn't have a bit where like they switched from one to the other. It was all English doing like their own accents, all English actors. There is a reference I'm trying to land here and I don't actually know what I'm referencing here, but I often, I'd be remembered at one point, some media I read as a child, it might have been a web comic, where one character says to the other something along the lines of, I'm speaking Russian and the other says, yes, I am also speaking Russian.

But since we both speak Russian, it sounds how English work to an English person and then they just carry on. That's right. That's the best way to do that. So, Ramios and the Philips are pretty understanding. They each have a key and they use both keys to open the safe in Ramios's cabin and open his orders, which are to go and patrol such and such a grid square and do exercises with another, like a hunter killer submarine, like an alpha-claw. And on reading this, around me it's just like, yep, okay, it's go time, immediately murders Putin. Oh, yeah, straight up.

Nice, isn't it? Yeah, like he fucks, he's fucking, he'd like breaks his trachea or something. So he's like, Basically does heavy attack on him. Brakes his neck. And you get this really creepy, but well done scene where Putin is choking

to death or in his death throws, but it was a horrible expression on his face, but making eye contact with Ramius. And yeah, it's, so I was telling this before we recorded that my dad took me and my brother to see this movie in theaters. Now I was five and I understood nothing of what was happening in the film at all. But I do remember this scene very clearly because it did make such an impression of like, you know, it's like not bloody death scene, but like quite gruesome in a while.

Yeah. So so so so. So Henry burns the orders. He burns the orders. Takes the political officers key and then it stages the scene He throws some some tea on the floor to make it look like he's slipped and then calls for the doctor He doesn't take the key just yet, but you are correct And we cut doors guy. We got to talk to doors guy. We got to go to doors guy

Doors guy goes Door ahead had a door. Yeah, I've had a door. There's probably some space behind both of these in which you could use something. No, what Doors guy actually tells Jack Ryan is that he thinks it's a catapillar drive, which he describes by analogy as being like a jet engine

but underwater, but because it doesn't have any moving parts, it's very quiet. So quiet, but this submarine could be undetectable to American sonar. Or almost. Yeah, it's like the water goes in the front and goes out the back. It is a real thing. It turns out it's actually really difficult to use because you need a lot of cool and you need a lot of expertise and if one thing goes wrong then you've got

a very hot engine so it's easier to just have a fucking... Yeah, it's easy to have a propeller. I know it's just like a plurkin seat but there is something to... there's a little hauntological bit to just being accepted fact that like, oh, the Soviet Union had like technologically outpaced us on this one thing. Like, I think the Soviets have built a big C-do. I don't know what the fuck we're going to do about it. But the doors guy actually says like, yeah, yeah, we, we tried to do this and we couldn't get it to work. And they have, which is interesting. Anyway, back aboard the red October, and we see Dr. Petroff Tim Curry is in this movie.

Tim fucking curry. Gary, in a place. What free of capitalism, the sea. Underwater. That's right. Tim Curry, a young, shockingly young curry. Yes, so yes, a baby.

Yeah, I, who is playing Dr. Petrov, the ship's medical officer. He is zipping up Putin into a body bag. And Remyus stops him, takes Putin's launch key for the missiles and stuff. He calls over some guy who was nearby, like a cook assistant or some shit. Cook assistant. You're going to log it off. Come with me.

It's not him taking. Cook assistant log it off. Should be log it off. Nice. Fucking the Soviet Union is all about log it off. That's right. The cheetahs. Cook assistant touched grass enough. See if food was still alive, you'd never be logging off. You leave fucking posted those disinformation for Matt Skier. His father was actually Central Asian, his name was Jack and in.

Changer that fucking Soviet Union Ellis Island. Oh, but he's like, he's posting. Yeah, he calls this guy over and he's like, witnessed this. I'm taking the political officers launch key and Tim Curry goes, well, you know, two people aren't, one person is supposed to have both launch keys.

That means that you, you could potentially, and then it just sort of leaves it at that and it comes to an end. Yeah. But it's quite, it's like, believes him into submission and we established the head of character is sort of like, you know, he is a good communist but also a bit dim and sort of easily brow-beaten.

Because he's like, we've got to go back. Like, you can't sail without a political officer and economy is like, I don't give a shit. There's a combat vessel. Yeah. We're far enough out at sea that we've swapped to English. We can't go back now. Yeah, we'll have to assume in on this guy's mouth again.

Yeah, and he's fucking dead. He's the only guy who's f**king on the whole boat. We're going to come back and we're not going to understand this. Yeah, you hit international orders. You can just swap back to English. Yeah. So Romeo switches his orders with a new set, which he has concocted himself.

And then we get this scene where he addresses the crew over the Tannoy. And he tells them that their orders are to escape detection from, we're led to believe like on an exercise, the whole Soviet Navy Lion weight off of the eastern seaboard of the US um And he he says that it's like a new era in a game of chess It reminds me of the heady days of Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin this speech rouse

This is men to such heights that they begin to sing the Soviet national anthem. Yeah, he says they're gonna engage the caterpillar drive, park off New York City, listen to American rock and roll music, troll the Americans, and then go to the band and have sex. The best possible leave for any Soviet military conscript. Mm-hmm. Which is demonstrated in the scene when he says the weather and comrade ship are warm and a guy stands up and does like, Hey, she's got a great ass fucking

yeah, the guy's eyes like bold. Yeah, so they start singing the Soviet national anthem. And on the USS Dallas, Jones the sonar operator half pick something up through the cast of pillar drive. And he's like, I think I can maybe hear singing. But then they lose the red October because when they turn on the cast of pillar drive, it goes totally dead. They can't hear them anymore. I'm excited. Yeah, that's all right. So Jones starts developing this theory that will that will come into play later about exactly Where he's going, but we then have to go to Moscow which Mercer flea we don't get a big shot of some Basil Cathedral and a big title. This is Moscow

Yeah, we just see the chair of the red fleet coming into work and is that yeah Yeah, whatever yeah, the chair of the red fleet coming into work and he's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Yeah, yeah. And he gets a little letter from Ray. He's increasing him. It's quite a death of Stalin. That's like quite like it. Like everybody like stands to attention as he goes passing. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, just old, old dude. And he gets a letter from Ramius. And we don't see what it says, but like we see him like, and he like knocks over his cup of tea and doesn't pay attention So we surmise that this letter is very very important Yeah, yes, and at this point in the story we're still being led to believe it means like he's gonna go rogue in a new America Yes, yeah, and James L. Jones says as much to um to Jack Ryan back in back in America

They're like look we this yeah He drives him to the White House situation room in order to brief Falcorn, Leicorn, National Security Advisor. About the existence of doors, right? So Jack Ryan got some developed doors. He's like, yeah, they got these doors and this sends the joint chiefs and everyone into it into a frenzy because I like bike Door technology We hadn't figured out how to they've put hinges on a wall sir

What we mess with this a few years ago, but we can make it work How does he get him all right? No, what happened? It happened. They know the entire Soviet Navy has been scrambled after the red October and they're like sh**t. Remius has gone rogue, he's going to come and he's going to f**king obliterate the entire United States.

And Alec Baldwin is like, no, there's another possibility. Yeah, he has a moment of sort of like, analytic genius. Yeah, he's like, he's trying to defect. He's trying to flee the Soviet Union. And they're like, why? What's your evidence? And he says, because today is the one year anniversary of his wife's death.

And that's kind of the extent of his evidence, right? His, his favorite evidence is, I met him one time of how to do. He seemed very, very funny to talk to him. Yeah. I told him how many Twitter followers I had, and he was like, that sounds really cool. Oh my God.

And then it was kind of embarrassing. You know, he's got genuinely Jack Ryan, and if I sold that. I know, if I sold that. I know. Is able to predict things correctly, and the plot hinges quite often on him bluffing. And his sole justification for this is vibes.

Yeah. Yeah. Just vibes. I think it's like, I don't know. I kind of see why it appealed to, you know, Reagan and the sort of like Bush era CIA and shit to have a hero who is an analyst rather than like a sort of like, operator guy. I guess, but the way in which he does that this plot is essentially like vibes as hunches. Also, I cannot stress

enough the national security advisor does sound like Falco and like he sounds like fucking Jim Garrison and JFK. Yeah, he's like, I'm a politician, which means I'm a cheap liar. Yeah. When I'm not kissing babies, I'm stealing their lollipops. And it's just like, it's a perfect. Okay, we get it. Yeah. Yeah. So he says that I bought when you've got three days to prove your theory, after which point, like we're going to have to find this guy and sink sink it. And I bought was like, whatever else,

we need to steal the submarine. Like we need to actually get the submarine. Because if they've built this thing, we need it. Yeah. Meanwhile, Stella and Skarsk are disinfering. Well no, because the foc on like corners, like, well, we got to send someone down there and Jack and I was like, yeah, you do. And he slowly realizes to his horror that he is being volunteered for this. It's really good because he is like expendable.

And so they're just gonna send him out on his own to figure it out. Meanwhile, across town, across the North Atlantic. Also, in that scene is the second time that someone says to Jack Ryan, how long has it been since you got some sleep? And he goes, oh, it's been our second pal, I'm honest. And I wanted that to keep going.

I really wanted that. He doesn. Yeah, this is really one of them. He doesn't look that tired really. I wanted him to get so much more tired throughout the course of this fucking movie. Yeah. Just like, you seem to be like, dude, have you had a nap yet, man? And he's just like, no, no, I'm going to go into the entire course. He's like slamming monster the whole time.

So, so we see, we see the, the con of a lot. That's how they pronounce it. I don't know if it's Con of Valor for whatever, but we see the Con of Valor, this attack submarine was supposed to rendezvous with the Red Octover. And it's filmed the way that Star Trek films like war aliens, like fucking card athletes and shit. It's all dark angles. Everybody has a

light like shining across their face in a really weird hail blue green and red and like yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh, and scar scar is the captain of his third. That one. He gets his out. He gets his orders. He's he's kind of like a um, intemperate is the vibe. Uh, we

know he's been trained by Ramiya, but he's kind of like more abrasive and like more impatient with his crew. Um, I'll, I'll say this about the scars guards. They're the one acting dynasty that I fully believe have earned it. Oh yeah. Like, Stellan is a fucking legend and all of the scars guard children fucking nail it. So he, he, he sets off after them in like hot pursuit. That's right. We also discovered that Connery's offices are really pissed off for them because he announced their intention to defect in his letter.

He's like, fuck you, I'm out. And they were like, why did you tell them we were doing like the whole ladies coming after us, you dick like the dumbest thing. I don't give a shit. Yes. Now his justification was he says, when Cortez reached the new world, he burned his ships and it gave his men motivation.

So you're led to believe that he just told the fucking Russians that they were defecting so that they got no fucking choice now, baby. They were defecting. Yeah. It's really good. He's like, you know, fuck all of you. Yeah.

And he's and he's like, yeah, I give us like one chance in three. They're probably going to kill all of us. Yeah. A nice touch that I do like is Sam Neal, Boradin, his two, I see his exo, Boramir. Boramir. He, he like backs him up in public in the office's mess. But as soon as the other officers leave,

he can front him in private. And he's like, you know I would never criticize you in front of junior officers, but. But you're a dick. Yes. What the fuck do you do? And it's quite good. It establishes this sort of relationship of trust.

We've been told by Ryan when he's like briefing Falkon Leicon that Ramius has probably trained all of these officers himself and he's hand picked them for this. The thing that they're worried about is that this is strictly an like an officer's defection. The crew not involved. Cannot know because because if the crew know, then they might, you know, revolt and turn the ship back to its right for loaners, the people of the Soviet Union, along with Marco Ramias' toothbrush. That's right. He is shown to genuinely care about his men. Yes. Like, he is insistent that they get rescued from the boat. And maybe you can say that that's part of his plan is so that they think that the boat's been scoffing.

No, you wouldn't need all of them. It really is like filmed and written as a like father to his men thing. Yeah, it was genuinely very nice. Yeah. Yeah, I do feel as though that's sort of the, like, there's meant to be this idea of fraternity between Ramiya and people like Jack Ryan or Captain

Mancuzzo and it's just sort of like good guy in a bad system versus these guys who are good guys in a good system and I recognize that's the sort of Cold War Hollywood logic but you do get that point that like there's this idea that that being getting to the position that he's in, requires him to have the same kind of values that people like to exalt themselves in the West for having. I'm not trying to be a campus here about this, but there is this extent to which he's portrayed

as being singular, and I do find it very funny that one of the reasons why he's portrayed as being singular is that because he's Lithuanian. It's like, it was like, we know, they don't know so much the name of that with Lithuanians. Yeah, that is one of Ryan's vibes, it because he's Lithuanian. Yeah. Because like, it was like, we know, they don't know so much the way he is. Yeah, that's not so much. That is one of Ryan's vibes.

He's not Russian. He's Lithuanian. Uh, okay. Yeah, he's just one of the fucking Soviet Union's single most decorated submarine captains. Yeah. He is Lithuanian, so I think we can get. Yeah, we get hints of this throughout, but like the reason why he's defecting is as as Homer Simpson once crawled on a legal pad, dead wife.

First of all, no fucking way is a guy called Marco Ramius Lithuanian, but some fucking season now and I'll believe you. His in the book, this is explained a bit more and his dead wife dies during surgery because the, the surgeon who botches it is like, like the son of a central committee member and cannot face any consequences. And so that disillusionment with the system, I'm sure that sort of thing would never happen in the United States or indeed in Britain where our medical system is famously really good and not run by people who should have retired a long fucking time ago.

Definitely no nepotism. I'd like to deflect to the United Kingdom when there's a doctor named Shipman. I'd like to defect to the United Kingdom so that I can finally get my pushy shaggy. I've been on a weight-aggl and let you any of our 17-year-old snow. She died because she got the pushy shirt, Jenny badly. But to Sean Connery wakes up on a bed and he's like, where's my wife? And I like, who do you think you have the pussy? So Ryan has to go to the scene. But unfortunately, the scene is just like the scene, the Atlantic.

So they dump him on an aircraft carrier in the middle of a carrier strike group. And he now has my favorite job and the job I wish I had being paid the steel valor because they put him in a US Navy commanders uniform. And he like introduces himself to the admiral commanding this carrier strike group who is also Falkon Lycon. There's two Falkon Lycons in this movie. Every American has Falkon Lycon in this movie.

That's right. This is what happens in the Jack Ryan books is that every American has Falkon Lycon, and the captain of the aircraft carrier itself. The first thing he does is apologize for stealing valor. Yeah, never apologize. He's just like, yeah, James L. Jones made me wear this uniform as a joke to insult you. I think his idea is that it's like it's a low profile thing to make him go undercover as a naval officer. Yeah, so he's not just wandering around in a suit and tie like we see being from the CIA.

Immediately backfires because as soon as he leaves the catch of the aircraft carriers, like, I don't like him. You didn't get- You're stealing valid. Wonderful. Yeah. You got a wonderful scene where the guy who brings him in, after he leaves in the captain of the network,

that's like, I don't like he's wearing a uniform arach and he should not be doing it. The guy's like, listen man, he wasn't allowed to join the army because he's got bad eyes, he should cut his ass. You're dead. I don't know. Yeah, this is the scene that I would write, you know?

Like, oh yeah, he's like, listen, he's read a lot of books and he's trying real hard all right yeah he's a truth in spirit making yeah he's he's culturally military but non-practicing We hear that he uh he became a CIA analyst because he he was gonna be in the military Yeah he was gonna be in the military more compactly. He was being able to academy, but he was injured during training so severely that he had to basically learn how to walk again and so he was not in the Navy,

but he would have been a naval officer otherwise. So you're not allowed to call him a Percy, which is, yeah, fine. I wanted to throw something in there really, just really quickly, that I take your point about it's less conspicuous for him to be in a commander's uniform than it would be for him to be in a suit and tie because the first thing that came to mind was I don't know if you remember the character Tommy who has one little bit seen in Apocalypse Now is just the CIA guy with the bull cut who says

terminate him with extreme prejudice. Basically like that we would be on this aircraft here if he wasn't in a uniform. Also another funny little coincidence, the aircraft's guy is called the USS Enterprise. It is, which I believe is real. It is. Big E. There is a USS Enterprise, I think. Yeah, there is. So we have a scene of the red October navigating through a sort of underwater canyon. Yeah.

And Jones on the Dallas has a theory that that's what they're doing. And he tries to like convince his captain who is he's picked them up. Yeah, yeah. And the captain, Captain Mancuse, the least emotionally demonstrative man in history is just sort of like, you know, like staring totally pinched face at the charts. And Jones is getting more and more like sort of insistent because he thinks he's not buying it. And Mancay also just goes, yeah, you already sold me on this. Just do it. Yeah, meanwhile the Soviets are, go ahead, sorry. No, it's okay. You got to call back to a line for at the door man said earlier, which is that they you wouldn't pick up this this fucking engine on the sonar or the radar. It would assume that it's like volcanic activity or seismic or something.

And this guy this guy's like yeah, we picked this shit up and the fucking computer says that there might be a seismic activity. But here's my theory. We develop this for two detect seismic activity, but here's my theory. We developed this for two detect seismic activities. So I think what happens is when it has something it doesn't understand, it just sort of defaults back to that. And he plays it at 10 times speed and it does sound like a rhythmic engine. Yeah, it's not great. Yeah, it's a great, yeah.

It's a great, well-paced, well-entered thriller. I don't know why I suggested that we do this. Meanwhile, the Soviets are navigated. So the red October is navigating through this channel off their oceanographic charts because they can't really see anything. My notes basically say, now this is pod racing because 100%, that's what the scene reminded me

because it's basically them sort of blindly following the maps doing like water-oriented, avoiding mountains. And yeah, I mean, it's tense. It's very well done. It's very cool. And you kind of get into the whole way, like the precision involved, and like you said,

the clock and the charts and the calculations, and like on my signal 54321 mark, that kind of stuff, like it's cool. It's just like a fantastic thing. And it really has a really different cause. Rami has made them go faster and they have to re-adjust. And it's really cool. You can kind of hear the bridge crew getting more and more nervous.

And Rami of course does not look phased at all. You are only world to talk to. If you think about it and like if you're just hearing us describe this, you're not really getting the full thing of it. Generally, watch this movie. It's really good. But the thing is, they are navigating through a really tight passageway and they don't have like a fucking windscreen, right?

This is like inside of a building and they are just doing the maths from a chart to figure out exactly where they are and what they have to do. And you know, when just done it around. When everyone dies, that's the only time you know that you find out. It's like, one of them's got a stopwatch. One of them has like a fucking little conversion we provide for is like doing the maths.

And like it's fucking sick. Oh, fucking sick. It's basically like doing a Boy Scout orientering course, except if you make a mistake, but you get crushed in a coat can. Yeah. In fact, the navigagasus says, you know, like, give me a map and a stopwatch

and I'll fly the out and a plane with no windows. So that's your analogy. Which I can always say is rock. King. Incredible. Incredible. And like the dynamic between the different offices, like Sam Neor being the sort of like the stalwart,

but you can see him getting more unnerved, but still trying to like reassure the others. He's so good, he's such a good actor. Yes. And we all have to see that the caterpillar drive has been sabotaged. Yeah, but we get a sort of jump scare fake out. We're meant to think that it's like hit the walls of this underwater canyon that they're racing through. And instead, there's been an explosion that has taken the caterpillar drive offline. And the engineer believes that it is targeted sabotage. Someone has just ripped a surfboard out of it. Comrade Loginoff, you are a saboteur.

I'm not sure if you know, but someone's sus on board captain. Nobody actually said the words among us in this movie, or I would have recorded that drop and be playing it at 500 decibels right now. I mean, I was making reference to the BBC, the CBC series, Stafford, which is really quite good, actually, at classic. Yeah, the TV adaptation of Among Us. Yeah. So, Among Us. The thing about Sam Neill, I just want to really quickly, is that he was in the runnings to be a bond. We even saw the screen test on the YouTube zone quite recently.

He couldn't see the voice. He looks great. Yeah, that's the one problem problem is that he looks great. He's got a great, we have a well-shared daughter. Is the thing. Yeah, he's a, Don has a phenomenal, well-fired screen presence. You leave my boy.

So like, so the Soviet ambassador comes to the US National Security Advisor to try and bullshit him essentially. In a sort of like this guy, we've lost the submarine. And so that's why our entire surface fleet is just out. We're doing a big rescue operation. Ask any questions. Do not offer to help us.

It's a funny moment where he does offer to help the moon. He's like, I'll pass that along. Yeah, I'll check in the back. The Soviet ambassador, and this was the reference I was desperately trying to land. The Soviet ambassador has such a heavy vibe of fucking Peter Bull in Dr. Strange love as the Russian ambassador. He's just like the sweatiest come alive and he's like um yeah no no we don't need your help right now man. His direction here is like Phoenix right witness who has been caught in two or more lives. It's yeah he's just like constantly wiping his

drowning like a con comrade sorry mr. President we're fine don't worry about it. Yeah I'm sorry, Mr. President, we're fine, don't worry about it. Yeah. He's just like Josh Acklin, who's done loads of, he's done loads of, yeah, yeah. Like villain shit. But because the Casabilla Drive is disabled, the Red October is detected by a Soviet anti-submarine warfare plane, which drops a torpedo into the water. And so in an incredibly tense scene,

they have to sort of race through this closely plotted tractor and underwater canyon. And Ramias takes them out of it. He delays them making a turn. We think leading them directly into rock wall. In order to fake out this torpedo by turning at the last minute, and you can, it's beautifully done. You can see everyone get more and more tense. And when they finally turn, Sam Neill gives Sean Connery a little look of recognition as the boat like pitches over to one side and Sean Connery a little look of recognition, as the boat like pitches over to one side, and Sean Connery just reaches out his hand and stops his glass of coffee that is so playable. It's so cold.

It's so cold. Yeah, yeah. Not a fucking hint of emotion on his face, just. Because this is like, Ramius isn't a particularly good commander, because although he's very gifted, he never explains anything he does, which is like, not the best way to lead. Perhaps.

I was thinking about this. Wasn't it Harrison Ford in, was it K19? What's the film called? The Subway movie with Harrison Ford in it. We're like K19, the Widowmaker. It's the same kind of approach, but he's so much more aloof and uncompromising. And in a way, it's like you see that comparison that for some reason, maybe it's just like the camaraderie

between these guys that are in on the plot. Maybe it's just Sean Connery selling the role in a different way, but like he doesn't have that sort of like, my decision is final fuck you if you die kind of way about him, Harrison Ford's character does. He manages, there's like, there's like this, I don't to call it bond or some shit, you know, that would be really, really funny and stupid. But more just like, there's this sort of precision, like he knows better,

and that like you just, like he's unflappable. And I really do appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, once to live in Montana. Yeah. Have an, have an RV. Have a wife. I mean, man, he wasted around a American wife. My man likes Americans. He's a man after my own heart. He wants to drive from state to state without a propisca.

Uh, and this is this is this idea is like a novelty to him that you can just drive whenever. Um, this is, this is the moment I started getting legitimately upset because Samuel in this idea is like a novelty to him that you can just drive whenever. This is this is the moment I started getting legitimately upset because Sam Neel in this scene is doing the absolute. Hey, I keep in my helmet a picture of my girl back home. Yeah. And I see her any minute now, buddy. Speech number like Sam. No, Sam.

No, don't do it. Sam, you're making it to Montana. Shut up. So you'll have two to Montana. Shut up. Shut up. You'll have two wives. It's fine. So aboard the Enterprise, the aircraft carrier, Ryan has this sort of moment of realization because he's trying to reason through this

and he's like, okay, Ramius wants to defect. How are we gonna get the crew off of the submarine? And then his moment of realization is, we don't have to think that up. He must have already thought of a way to do this. All we have to do is predict it enough to be able to facilitate it. And he's like, how do you get how do you make the crew want to leave a nuclear submarine and a big sort of comical light bulb goes off over his head. So, spooky atoms. Spooky atoms.

Yeah. They also figure out that the Dallas has been chasing a seismic anomaly and Ryan's like, that's it, they found the red October you've got to get me on board the Dallas. Yes. Get me on the Dallas, which requires a helicopter flight, which again, every time he's in a plane in this movie, he's just any kind of aircraft in this movie, he's visibly hating it, which is a nice touch. Yeah, the line he says both times is just next time you have a bright idea, Jack, ride a memo.

So they take him in all this cold weather gear to rendezvous with the submarine, which is far enough out that they have essentially zero waiting time once they're there. They have to be there and the Dallas has to already be there, otherwise it's often they're just going to have to fly back. And so when they get there and the Dallas isn't there. Ryan sort of like bullies them into using an extra 10 minutes of fuel that he has invented from nowhere. Yeah. Yeah. He kind of finds his assertiveness, which is what his character needed to find.

Yeah. But then they get some of all the Dallas. Well, not so easily as the thing. They've got to lower him down in like a horse collar, right? And it's a safety harness. Yeah, and it's this is a real thing. And literally it's like a guy on the downless with a big hook and they warn that guy, you know,

stay grounded otherwise you'll just get electrocuted by the static electricity off of the helicopter Rosa Blitz. But it's in like a sort of a reasonably bad sea state and it's raining and reasonably bad sea state and it's raining and they have to try and lower Ryan down with less and less fuel while this guy tries to grab onto him. And when they can't make it, Ryan just ditches the harness

and just jumps into the water. It's very... So I wanna talk about something really quickly about this. So that's what this is called as this is a spies insertion. And I forgot what the acronym is, but spies and fries literally are acronyms for heloops. And fries would be hanging to a rope, like clipped into a rope. And in this case, like it's literally like a seat, like safety harness.

This is done for, it can be done for medical evacuation or in this kind of thing, an insertion. And there's there are two details about this that I really, I was fucking hooting and hollering out of just joy that they paid attention to detail. Is number one the guy saying, have you ever done this before? And he was like, yeah, once off Hawaii in perfect conditions. Because this is the kind of thing you do in training, but it's only typically done in emergencies. And so this is the worst possible condition to be doing it in. Secondly, you've got the

guy trying to hook up the static discharge wand. And that's a thing that unless you fucking know stuff about helicopters, you just wouldn't think of. But helicopters generate a ton of static electricity, even say in this with this weather, it's going to be like a power station. And if they were to touch Jack Ryan, touch his rope, or his rope, his cable, any metal part on it, without that discharge one being hooked up to, and I'm not joking, they need to connect a hook to either his rope or to the discharge port on the helicopter.

This is like a loop, like a ground loop on the bottom of the helicopter. They would get electric. And there is a scene in which they accidentally connect for a second and there's like an arc. That's just a thing that you'd learn about in helicopter safety stuff that, when you see a typical Hollywood movie,

how it approaches helicopters, they're just like, magic-worthy things that can do anything. And it's like, that's just a detail. I was like, yeah, that's right. You would have to do that. That is a safety concern. Otherwise, you would die in the process. And so like, I know it's dumb,

and I'm sure they had technical advisors, the Navy, all that stuff, you know. This is probably the deep state. But I did appreciate that like, the helicopter,'s dumb, and I'm sure they had technical advisors, the Navy, all that stuff, you know, this is probably the deep state. But I did appreciate that like, the helicopter, it wasn't just helicopter magic. Like there were limitations. There were limitations on this that, you know, the storytelling didn't allow

the magic of the plot to resolve a technical limitation that does exist in real life. And I thought that was like, this is really well done. I was like, yeah. Yeah, right. It works sort of in confluence with the plot, that this guy is sort of out of his comfort zone, being put through a bunch of sort of various trials

in order to make good on his hunch, which I like a lot. Yeah, it's fun as well. The film poses this like, it's not really a moral challenge that Jack Ryan has to have become a challenge of character. Well, yeah, it is, but also it's like a technical challenge, which is like, okay, there's a guy on a submarine somewhere in the Atlantic, we have to find him first and figure out what he wants and communicate with him. So it's like an interesting, like, how do you actually accomplish this task?

Yeah, it's something I wanted to throw out there too, really quickly, is also just the fact that, you know, you have the fuel limitations. You're literally about to go bingo on your 10 minutes your magic 10 minutes Like he said that's only used in more time the boat can't communicate unless it's high up enough to communicate under his normal channels They can't see it unless they happen to be in the right spot And I and I think the thing that really got me about it too was watching this stuff take places that there's a reason for the back story for Jack Ryan Like they've told you the thing It's like it's not just hey, you know this, this guy was going to be in the military to sing happen to him, but he has to basically relive a trauma he experienced that changed the

course of his life in order to, like you said, follow up on his hunch. So it's like he's being put through like his own private mental hell that he has to get through. It's sort of like, uh, sir, we heard you were bitten by a brown recluse and have severe arachnophobia. Well, this Russian guy wants to defect from a nest of spiders. And it's like, it's basically what they've accomplished here. Yeah. Yeah. It's really fucking good. He does get a ball of thing going on and it's not directly related to this, but in the previous scene with Sam Neal, we skipped over again, Connery's character is shown to genuinely care about his crew

because Sam puts forward the idea of dropping them off near the coast of Newfoundland, which they could get to in like 60 hours, and he goes, no, there's no way they would survive in the cold long enough to be rescued. We have to go to Maine. And it's just good, like he's continually, he's risking himself, he's risking the success of this mission just to make sure

that his crew are okay. We see that he's very tired of the conflict as well. He's like, I've been at sea my whole life and I've just missed my whole life and like, hasn't accomplished anything like this all kind of point. He calls it all without a word. Without one of his wife, I wouldo to the day we married. A couple of lines that go incredibly hard.

And I think of your adaptation. I don't remember them in the book. He also says a war without battles, without monuments, only casualties. Yeah, yeah. I thought that was really, really well done. Fuckin' sick. I do suspect that that's all adaptation

because in what will be the least surprising use to any of you. I read a lot of Tom Clancy books when I was a kid. And the actual work, the whole red October, yeah, I know, weird, right? It's a lot more technically focused, but there's also a lot more on the sort of like operational level, right? There's a lot more about what other submarines, what other surface forces are doing. There's like a whole subplot with the British involved,

whatever. I also somewhat don't suspect for the first Tom Clancy book, well, not, I don't think it was the first one. Yeah, it was, it was the first novel. I don't think you would go the, yeah, I don't think you'd go the novel. Yeah, it was. It was a first novel. I don't think you would go the, yeah, I don't think you'd go the man war fucking sucks for everyone involved angle. If you're going to write 100,000 more books about how it was good.

Yeah, the only really Tom Glancy sentiment in there is like a fascination with a secret war. And that's something that will persist later on in a lot more sort of like land-based fashions. And it leads to his sort of fascination. And we do the, what you might call like, like, fucking Venezuela series. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

This sort of fascination with direct action. That kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, I mean, if you want to be part of a secret war that involves direct action and just like generally fucking shit up on a secret base. It's just transition, Tom. Tom, just do it. Tom, Plenty looked like the boomer Wojak and also thought that way.

Any case. Did you, truck? Ryan jumps into the water where he is retrieved by a diver from Dallas. And like the second he disconnects himself from the fucking cable, the helicopter pilots like, well, you're probably now Dallas and just fuck off instantly, which I really enjoyed. Yeah, they're like, well, now for what we can do. I mean, the fuel clock doesn't start like ticking down, right? Oh, yeah.

100%. And the Dallas have just received orders to find and sink. Yes. The red up turd. Because the Soviets have now said, actually, this guy's gone rogue and he's going to kill you all. Please help us destroy him immediately. Yes. Yes.

Because you get another shot of the fucking embass to be like, uh, uh, a comrade president, we, we actually do want your help now, please, my friend. Yeah. We need to destroy this guy now. And the Russian still want the Americans have some. Yeah. And so, Mancusez both does not like and trust Ryan, and also will not disobey his orders.

Yeah. And so Ryan has to convince him in an extremely hostile environment. And one thing I did like about this is that they captured this sort of like, claustrophobia, right? Like Ryan can't move without being in someone's way. There's too many people around him. And he's trying to, trying to convince this captain who has been following

Red October, not to, not to launch on him. And the way he does this is by telling him, I know this guy, I know Ramius. Has he made any crazy Ivan yet? And a crazy Ivan is something that we've seen briefly earlier in the movie. It's like a habitual practice for Russian submarine captains to like abruptly turn to one side so that they can like throw off pursuers. Because if you're following somebody in a submarine, they can't hear you following if you're like following someone, they won't be able to hear you. If you like stay directly behind them, so they turn very suddenly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you turn very suddenly, you can see if there's anyone behind you. And so Ryan predicts that his next, the next crazy item that he

makes is going to be to starboard because he always turns to starboard in the bottom half of the hour. And so as they are about to fire on the red October, that's exactly what happens. And he convinces him that, you know, I know this guy, I'm inside this guy's head and he wants to defect. I've read his tweets. And this product, we get a sort of like attempted into suffering. That's for me to power a social relationship with a Russian sub-report. But they try to like communicate it through two vessels that are in the other sky.

I'm a high subscriber on his page. Well, I'm his king. So the way they get his attention, the way they do the tier three sub is to put the engine full-off in the back. Thank you for that. And to like cavitate the propellers of the submarine so that they can hear them. It makes a very like obvious noise to the red October. Oh, the Sunman Connery voice. Oh, thank you, Jack Ryan for the super chat. As he is in his tier three sub. So the tier three sub surface and the two captains exchange more some messages by signal light over Paris goes you up.

Yeah, yeah, you up and Ryan is sort of like writing these four mancuses and tells him if you want to defect, go to South to this very deep water, the Laurentian abyss. And at this point, Mankus, I was asking, how did you know who was going to turn starboard at the bottom half of the hour? And in one of the better character moments, Ryan was just like, I didn't have a 50-50 chance. And you weren't going to listen to anything else. It's great. So, revives.

Revives. Revives. Revives, I was saved. Revives, baby, this vibes. It's vibes, vibes, baby. So, the red October proceeds to the Laurentian Abyssal. And then the captain sets off, rather the chief engineer who is like in on this, because he's one of the senior officers,

sets off a false radiation alarm, one of the senior officers sets off a false radiation alarm, which in this sort of great show of reluctance, right? I mean, it's just like allows himself to be persuaded by the doctor, by the medical officer, that they have to evacuate the crew because he, you know, he doesn't want to. And so they surfaced the submarine. And there's an American ship. An American warship, an American frigate closing in on them. And it tells them, you know, he doesn't want to. And so they surface the submarine. And there's an American ship. An American warship, an American figure closing in on them. And it tells them, you know, do not, you know, do not submerge or you'll be fired upon. And it's at this point that we get, you know, say the line, Dr. Patroff.

Sure, Sean Connery goes, right, you take the crew off to be rescued. I and the senior officers will stay behind and scuttle the ship. And Dr. Theroth with tears in his eyes says, You'll receive the order of money for this country. Yeah, it's very great. It's so good. Great. You'll receive the order of money for this country. The roads that I've been on, shit in my day-to-day life, you'll receive the order for this comment. The rose. I'm in my day to day live.

You received the rose. It's a crime scene for this. You receive the cross. Good night. The Americans make a, this is the submarine goes below and the Americans make a show of firing a torpedo at it. But they deliberately like self-destruct their torpedo the last minute or James Earl Joe's that leans into the frame and presses the button and then he has this great

But Marie says to the guy launch the missile. He was at now You have to understand commander the submarine did not self-destruct you heard it hit the hole and then he like shows it His ID and he goes and I was never here It's a lot of a classic lines. Yeah. So now the sort of like the technical aspect of this movie kind of go out of the window a little bit because, yeah. So Ryan and Jones, for some reason,

is along on this and Mancusa, take a submarine rescue vessel over to the red October. We actually saw the door man building it earlier on. The rest of the rescue vessel was set up right at the very start. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Due to the knowledge when I saw it. Yes, they meet with each other for the first time. And there's this sort of very tense series of moments.

Most notably, Bankie was armed, he has brought a side arm with him because he doesn't trust the Soviets not to change their minds about the defection. But... Connery is a request to asylum. He's like, I give you my ship, I request to asylum. You have this really tense moment

when they're both on board. And the two crews are just stood on the sides of the fucking bridge looking each other and no one's speaking. It's like, oh god. Oh no. And the way they break it is both Ramias and Ryan realized that the other one speaks Russian or English respectively, Mm-hmm. Which I quite like. But, I forget which order these two things happen. They get the bridge gets shot at by fucking...

Scar's God. He's back. Yeah, this is the one that happens first. Scar's God fucking shows up. My man shows the fuck up and he launches a fucking missile. Look at him like a fucking like Romulan bridge deck at this point. Like there's nothing green and red lights being cast everywhere. And so together the two groups.

The sexual lighting captains. And then Jack Ryan gets to live his wettest dream. What Captain Ramias, like, says, could you please drive the submarine for me? Yes. Can you please really be in the military for real because you're cool enough in your heart? Again, I could have written that.

Anyway, we get this sort of like, a sort of credulity stretching scene of Americans knowing how to drive a Russian submarine. I read it in a Russian translation of your money all three years ago. That's right. So they evade the torpedo that Steffan Stone's Garzgod fires at them. But at this point, fucking Cook's assistant third class touching grass enough. That's right.

He's having back, baby. That's right. I want to be, I want to fucking put my credentials on the goddamn line here as I knew it was that fucking guy. Because he gives that suspicious look during the key exchange in the beginning. And this is just another example of this film. Like, you know, I hate to make the cliche comparison, but one film that comes to mind is children of men in the sense of like, if a detail occurs, that detail is relevant.

And like, I really appreciate that. Like, it's not a storytelling technique that works for everything, but for films like this, it absolutely does. Just like you said, Devon, I was cheering like the fucking, like the Pacers had actually won. They get the Lakers in 2000 when they brought the rescue sub thing like the the like boarding people because it's just like, ah, you've thought this through and like we didn't learn about this thing for no reason. It's relevant, but you don't necessarily see the plot lining up to use it. And so I'm just like, that's so well done.

Yeah, when the cook's assistant, because he was the, he's the only fucker in that cast on that ship who was wearing a fully white uniform. So you can see him in the background of a bunch of scenes and I'm like, you piece of shit. I feel you. Yeah. It's you. There's like the moment I noticed it was he was actually they cut to the inside of it and he's just leaving the room. It's just the back of him. But I was like, you it it's you, it's you, it's you, if I was a guy, this guy, this guy, this guy. He's a saboteur. Yes. And he should, Sam Neel.

He deprive Sam Neel of his cottage-court dreams of having a round American wife. And I will live in my town. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits and she will come for me. But he shoots him in the chest and Sam Neel Roman and raised rabbits and she will come for me. But he shoots him in the chest and Sam Neal is just like I would have liked to have seen Montana as he's dying.

I'm just like, oh fuck. Shit dude. I was like, thank you. You didn't have to see Montana. I'm not doing it. Yeah. Out of everywhere. I don't know if it's gonna compare very favorably

to New Zealand, Sam. All right, you don't know what you're using on. I've always wanted to see a pretty like grassland. My dream was to retire to Indiana. No, no, no, sorry. This is for today. Did they let just anyone live in Indianapolis? At least I got to be in the Omen 3. Sam Neal going to Indiana heaven, and it's like he looks down and sees that he's wearing a Motorola Star Tack and a belt holster. Merging across 60 lanes of traffic to get into the parking lot of an apple. I was gonna say a fucking Bob Evans, exactly.

He's just lazy. He's like, he's super rock. The biscuits are already moist, but they put gravy on top of them for some reason. So, so the saboteur is gonna blow up one of the nuclear weapons in order to destroy the red October, because he's such a dedicated communist that he wants to stop the Americans from getting their hands on it. And frankly, we support him. He's correct.

We support him in his struggle to prevent the Americans from stealing the property of the people of the Soviet Union. That's exactly right. And the traitor Ramias and the... There's a bit in this, right. Like, both when Ramias Etrusc explain his reasons for defecting and also in the briefing to the joint truth and the national security adviser where they talk about this submarine being a first strike weapon. Like it's inherently dangerous because it has the capability to

launch a nuclear war to start a nuclear war with no warning. And like that's what a ballistic missile submarine is. That's what it's for. There aren't any harmless ones. The US Navy operates many of these at the time this is made. Yeah, you're just mad because it's better. Yeah. But we get jealousy is a disease. Well, bitch. So chuff. So cuckabli We get we get a simultaneous.

Just drop the hard base. Yes, please. Yeah. simultaneous gun fight and torpedo dog fight. Mm-hmm. Which is good. He said he. Sean Corey doesn't actually say the line I always thought he did.

Shum things in here don't react well to bullets. He says, no, he says, most things in here don't three. And the guy who says, Shum things in here is fucking Jack Ryan is doing Sean Connery voice. Yes, it's quite funny. It's like beam me up Scotty. I've been misremembering it all these years. Yeah. I like Baldwin Bracket Sean Connery voice. Sean Mjynjian here, I don't respond well.

You shifted into a different reality, I'll say. Well, it wasn't just that you had a hand down your face. You actually shifted. That's right. So Jack Ryan outwits and kills the the G.O.U. guy who is about to blow up the boat. Ramius like directs fuck the fucking boat in such a way that the con of I love blows itself up with its own torpedo. And the Dallas helps.

Yeah. Yeah. And sort of as we see Dr. Petroff and the crew watching on the surface and as they you know see it explode uh... and they're sort of you know they'll take a few hours yeah and they've been sure they don't they don't know that they are that uh... scars got is there of course they just think it's the

uh... for the other uh... they're like oh they're they're fighting back against the americans and then they're like oh yeah they think that he is diet heroically uh... and so that that that's how back against the Americans and then they're like, yeah, they think that he has died heroically. And so that that's how the Soviets leave things. And we end on Ryan and Ramius sort of floating this submarine up a river in Maine. In front of a very bad blue screen. Yes, terrible. Yeah, yeah. Where they just, where they talk about fishing and how the rivers in Lithuania

are very similar to the rivers in Maine. And Connery has the line, a little revolution now and then, is a healthy thing, don't you think? Interesting. So I think it's quite fun. And then finally, he's sleeping on the plane as a credits role.

Yeah. And he's got a seat for the bear that he has bought for his daughter that he promised he would. It's very sweet. Yeah. So that that that's good. That's the plot of this movie. But I'm sort of like more interested in what we can say about the ideology of this movie, right? Because it's at the time that this was my Tom Clancy had not become this sort of like, huge, for a household name joke. Yes, he is in the moment. Yeah.

And so, I don't know, it's interesting, right? Like, it's a profoundly sort of like, American nationalist kind of like film, but also in a way that's like, that sort of like 90s aspiration where it's like good people the world over have an American inside them trying to get out. Yeah, that's the best way of phrasing the thing that I said earlier, I think, Alice, where I said that like the singularity of him is this leader of men is the stuff that the film basically indicates makes him more like an American.

I do think that's exactly, yeah, you're right. There is definitely ideology there at work. And also, I think that there is obviously a little bit of, I'm not gonna call it magical realism, but there is something of the fantastic in the sense that he's never really contradicted. He's right, He's always right. Like he's got it and he's made it harder for himself.

He's done it on God mode for some reason. And yet like he's still always right. And so yeah, there is this, I don't know, it kind of it propels it into this almost like mythically moral mission that he's on. Mm. Yeah, in order to like get as many people to Montana and around wives as you can.

Yeah, you know, it's so funny to me too because I was trying to recall what did I remember from this film from the first but I have seen it again as an adult as a long time ago. And I really, I mean, I know the plot but I didn't really remember any details and I was like, I remember the choking scene

from when I was a kid. I remember the mouth moving thing like when they changed language from when I was like, I remember the choking scene from when I was a kid. I remember the mouth moving thing, like when they changed language from when I was an adult. And then hilariously, the only thing I remember about this film from when I was seeing it the first time as a kid was that there was one scene that was really bright before the scene got dark again on the river thing with the fake blue screen.

And I remember I was wearing a sweatshirt with a shark on it that had glow in the d'arth teeth. And I was like, oh, my shirt's glowing because the light made the glow thing. That's literally all I remember. Because my dad, an army officer at the time, we were stationed in Rhode Island, so like surrounded by boats,

was like, you would be a great film to take my five and seven year old sons to go see the hunt for fucking red October. Yeah, so I didn't really recall it at all. And so in a way, I had this kind of bondness for it without really appreciating, call it the storytelling devices of it. Yeah, I was talking about this before we started recording I woke Cynthia up because I was cheering and hooting and hollering like an eight because I was so satisfied with how it Resolved the plot and like I'm willing to give a lot of the sort of late Cold War end of Cold War ideology in the film

It's because it's such a well-paced, well-kind of brought together story. You know what's funny? It makes Bond movies seem worse in comparison. Yes, it so does. Yes, it does. Like having this break, because like, you know, this podcast taking up so much of my movie watching means I don't get to watch a lot of like different movies now I mostly watch movies for this and so I've been on a

sort of like immersion language course in James Bond for so long that having sort of resurfaced with this with a like a good action movie. I'm just like oh that's that's how you can film like 10 self underwater, right? And not just having like two guys in wetsuit slowly hit each other. Well, it was weird to me because the thing that came to mind was I was thinking about how you stack this up to other submarine movies that have been made

because obviously it is kind of a genre and the claustrophobia and the sort of protagonist, antagonist relationship in this confined space. The only film that I have ever seen that I feel like gets the vibe right in terms of sort of like the stakes is the 1995 Gene Hackman Denzel Washington film Crimson Tide. And once again, the thought that basically like what happens on this boat determines whether or not there's a nuclear war and we cannot contact it. You know, we can't figure out whether or not what decision they're going to make. And so I realized, I think the isolation, I think the ever-present danger, and I think

specifically the mechanical limitations of what they can and cannot know because of where they are in the water, their depth in the water, or the radios and stuff. The lag between information being available at high levels took down to them, even just getting to the Dallas on a helicopter where it's like, here's a grid square of water, go to water and maybe you'll find a boat. There's even a more time example of this in the beginning,

which is in order to show some photographs to James O'Jones, Jack Ryan has to put them in his briefcase and physically travel from London to Virginia in order to do this. There's a long sort of latency. When he's briefing the joint chiefs, he's talking about Amos and he's like, do we have a picture of him that we can like, put on the overhead project. Yeah, this is just like full on analog tech wet dream. Like it's so cool.

I mean, if you're a fan of that sort of thing, like also something that I found really funny is that the actor who plays Captain Mancuso is the same guy who's like one of the FBI people in the silence of the Lambs. Oh, yeah. And there is a weird kind of aesthetic crossover there, I think, in terms of just the grayness, the drapness, the intensity, and the feeling of isolation.

It's something that manhunter did very, very well more recently and looking back to those same things. And so in a way, I just think this is such a singular film. And even though like the Jack Ryan franchise has gone on to become more absurd, and it's obviously it's been done in many ways. Similarly good, but in oftentimes much worse ways, I think that like, you're just so along for the ride. And when you perceive this not as like the cliche of all the Tom Clancy novels and the

Netflix series where they go and they defeat the villain Vincent Timberduro. But when they absolutely like in this initial incarnation like treat this like a story you're coming into to the first time this character whose name you don't know like he's just a guy. Like you are so along for the ride of it and I think that like it deprived of that mythical status of him is sort of like the guy who was both James Bond and the future president just as like a 35 year old CIA analyst with like a thwarted military career. You absolutely, you get into it and you don't, if you came into this blind, you don't presume that this guy is magical or that he's going to be able to have all the answers. He's just sort of like putting himself out there to get fucking rained on.

And like, he's just, I don't know, like it's compelling. Yeah. What is interesting is that unlike perhaps later or more recent adaptations of Tom Clancy, the communist characters in this are by and large not portrayed as evil. The only one who's like a really a bad guy is Stan and Skarsgard and he's a bad guy because he's like arrogant. a bad guy is Stan and Skarsgard and he's a bad guy because he's like arrogant That's that's his fault. Whereas like You know if this was a later thing you might have the scene where all the men burst into song singing the US

The National Anthem you might like show that somebody with a gun making them do it But what's interesting is like in this that's that completely sincere in this It's a little bit like for your eyes only in that it does have Daytont right? It's like both sides of the Cold War, well, we're only seeing one side, but like the west inside of the Cold War has sort of like come to terms with it in a way that is like surprisingly healthy and this will not persist. Like with any gear of this movie coming out, the Soviet Union will not be a state anymore. Yeah, you can also think about how this era is portrayed

in, for example, Call of Duty games versus this. This is so much more humane, but also like, in a way, not unless he's sedate, but subdued. Professional would be the word I would say. Yeah, yeah, that's a great way. Yeah, exactly. Like even when Ramesh is addressing his crew, he tells them, your fathers have done this, your older brothers have done this. This is a generational struggle.

I had some quite, it's almost like sad. Well, I'm going to use the word, hauntological feelings watching this film, because you're right, Nate, that the Soviet Union is so often portrayed in more modern things, as like evil and repressive, and we do get some stuff like that with like Comrade Putin and stuff. But I felt like almost a little bit sad and nostalgic watching this, because this film portrays the Soviet Union which no longer exists and like we have joked on this podcast before about like you know we uncritically support the Soviet Union itself. But the fact of the matter is that like especially

in the UK there are a lot of trans people who are not only communist but who also like very much enjoy the aesthetic of the Soviet Union. There's a recurring drop on Trashvich, where you guys play the... Yeah, if I'm not funny, I could play it for you now. Yeah, and it occurred to me that we are seeing through a door in time, which is a thing with stuff on the other side of it. We are seeing the last time that humanity really tried to organize political economy differently, that we are really like seeing a world that obviously wasn't perfect and it wasn't a great place

to live and like had all kinds of really bad problems. But it's kind of the last time we really tried to do anything differently. And I think that as trans people, and especially, and not just trans people, also like people under the age of 50 who like in this country are extremely disenfranchised, there is something, there's like a strong feeling

I get from seeing this world. It just kind of made me really sad in a way that I struggled to articulate and explain. If you don't mind a bit of intertextuality here, we saw the movie Strange Days on Trash Future recently, which is set in a dystopian future of 1999. One of the characters in Strange Days says that the reason why he's pessimistic about the next millennium is that we have tried every form of government and they've all been seen to fail. So.

I was thinking about this too, that I can only think of the Americans and Chernobyl in terms of recent works of art that have portrayed, for mass entertainment, that have portrayed the Soviet Union in a not like comical way, like they're not, I know, for mass entertainment that I portrayed the Soviet Union in a not like, comical way, like they're not, I mean, Chernobyl obviously like goes above and beyond to be like,

have you heard about this system, which is bad? But like, there's just in like the sympathy with which it really tries to capture the material culture of the Soviet Union, like there's so much to it that it just at least tries to be more nuanced than like, you know, Tim Curry's outtakes from commanding Conquer, kind of shit. And the point I'm making here is that like,

this is different because it's made in the Cold War. It was set earlier in the Cold War written or in that time period, but also like, it's kind of representing an adversary that exists that is like both feared and estimable as opposed to like a caricature of the past. That makes sense. And even Tom Clancy would not write other adversaries this way. Like he wrote Japan this way

when he wrote Death of Honor, the novel in which he predicted 9-11. But once terrorism sort of crept into his psyche, he was like, no, this is like something that has to be like humiliated as opposed to the Soviet Union. Can I throw something in really quick? I don't know if you're familiar with, so Mark Bowden wrote the book Black Hawk Down that got made into the film. And he was a journalist, I think, for the Philadelphia

and choir, he wrote this long series about what had happened at Mogadishu and then it made the book and then he also wrote a book called Guests of the Iatola which is about the Iranian, the Tehran Embassy hostage situation and I had to put it down in like the first you know 30 pages and I loved Black Hawk down for better or worse but the reason is is because so many people when they confront a political ideology like Islamism, they cannot empathize with people choosing it. And so they have to almost write like, fucking, you know, the mad Arab who was here,

Abdul-Hazarid from fucking HP Lovecraft or like Jambar from Disney's Aladdin, level of comical evil to conceive of this. And it's like, it's nice to watch something where it's adversarial, but it's done in a way that seeks to represent reality to some degree, as opposed to representing the darkest fears. I'm trying to think about if I've seen any movies that do represent Islamism in that sort of way. And the only one I can come up with off the top of my head is another YouTube bonus episode, Siriana.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. I guess to me, it's just, I appreciate the fact that this as a historical document as well as a fictional story captures something where it was drawn in opposition to sort of the home team but it's done in such a way that doesn't play upon the sort of like, oh, well, we all know what happens next. And I'm gonna throw in one other comparison which is it was a nice little detail.

I don't know if any of you have read Stephen King's novel 112263. Yes. It's good. I love it. It's really good. Stephen King, for his myriad faults, does some things very well. I'm that book's incredible. But there's one detail in there that I really appreciate it, which is that in one of the

spoiler alert, in one of the, like iterations of him reliving the past, trying to get to the conclusion he wants to where he can save JFK. The protagonist is in a relationship with a woman who attempts suicide during the Cuban Missile Crisis because many people in America did because they thought they were going to die. And that's the thing is that the Cuban Missile Crisis now

is invoked as the symbol of like, oh, this point we got to and it's like, good thing we backed off. But in the fog of the present, people thought they were going to die in a nuclear war. And many people thought, it of the present, people thought they were gonna die in a nuclear war. And many people thought, it's better for me to kill myself than to die in a nuclear Holocaust. And so that's the kind of thing, like this is a portrayal that similarly draws upon

the kind of fog of the present, even if it is, you know, super sympathetic to the Western side and to NATO and to the military. It still has to engage with the Soviet Union as a thing that exists, not a thing that like the writer's ideological conception of it in the past, you know, becomes. Yeah. I think another major part of it is that the Cold War is in my estimates, the last war that's ever happened, because to me, in order for something to be a war, there has to be something

of a reasonable shot at either side winning. It has to be a, if the only one side is an ever possibly gonna win, a symmetrical conflict. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the, the United States won that war in the same manner that they won the Vietnam war, because guess who the fucking global hedgehog on is? It's not Vietnam. It's not the Soviet Union. Even if you get embarrassed militarily, which the US did in Vietnam, it's still

pretty difficult to save it in any way America was embarrassed or stopped by this, but the Cold War was between two nations of a roughly equivalent size, and even if there was no actual like ground fighting, it's not like you can say that any wars have happened since then. You mean you have gone to war in the Middle East, but I don't remember any countries in the Middle East air-dropping troops into the UK. You've done that to them, but that hasn't happened back to us. It's harder to make this kind of movie about that because you don't have to treat any nations in the Middle East with the same sort of respect that you would treat the Soviet Union as a legitimate threat to the West.

You could make the argument that there hasn't been a war movie made recently, because it hasn't been like the kind of war that we make movies about. Well, yeah, and I was gonna raise that point that the largest ground conflict since World War II is the second Congo war, and just even finding people in sort of like, who talk about war professionally, in any capacity to acknowledge that,

is so difficult because, once like you said, it because it's not seen as a clash of ideology, it's just seen as a regional conflict despite it having like you said, it's not seen as a clash of ideology, it's just seen as a regional conflict, despite it having, you know, like not quite cursed style battles of tanks, but full on like huge engagements, huge numbers of troops involved, huge numbers of casualties, but it is basically treated as a thing that only like the senior international affairs heads need even be aware of. As opposed to like you were saying, this sort of battle between ideologies that is treated

as a war that everyone has to consider themselves on a side of. You know what I mean? And this is kind of a document of that. And there are traces of that in, say for example, the most recent version of tinker-tailor soldier spy in the way that like Soviet espionage abroad is represented in things along those lines like the stakes involved, but for this like kind of like what if the Cold War goes hot like Seeing it portrayed not through like this nostalgic lens, but rather as a fictional vehicle to address Contemporary anxiety is just so different to me. You know what it is?

What we think of as war movies now, like say, I don't know, American sniper, 12 strong, whatever. Yeah, that was a one of those things. It's all stere nasiou. Ah, those aren't war movies in the genre that we've typically defined it. I think they're closer to cop movies.

And I'll explain that because a cop movie doesn't have an adversary that is legitimized in any way. The protagonists being in a situation is never questioned. Their rightness is not questioned because it's like institutionally bestowed upon them. And you're meant to, when there is a hostile action taking against them, you are meant to feel shock and like discord and revulsion. Whereas in your more trad war movies, even the sort of like apocalypse now war as hell thing, right? You kind of get the feeling that like, it's all in the game, right? It's all legitimate.

There's, you know, apocalypse now makes that explicit because you have like sort of Vietnamese civilians throwing grenades onto helicopters and then being killed and the Americans who have been bombing their village, you know, being, being disgusted, but like, highlighting that hypocrisy that was in the genre, but it's not there now. That's just gone. It's entirely, as you said, as an asymmetric. And if I could have any sort of final thoughts on this concept of there having been no war since the Cold War and that the

entire war on terror has been essentially just a vehicle to continue American headgear. And I would quote a great man, Bernard Sanders, when he said, listen up, pal, America deserve 9-11. I did have a serious point there, which yeah, you can make that if you'd like. Thank you. And I'm done. You know, you know, they called formally the UN involvement in the Korean War was a police action. So, yeah, So, mm-hmm. Yeah, the world police. It's all cop movies. It's cop movies. James Bond is a cop.

Yeah, you know, she's telling us about masculinity. This is analysis, baby. It's all everything after a bridge too far as cops. We'll not elaborate logging off. Thank you for listening. Rejectuality, embrace traditions. Truly, we are all comrades, loginals. I was going to say comrades, loginals, connect those fucking wires and end this.

So, uh, Nate, where can the people find you? You can find me on Twitter at in these deserts. And I am the producer of Kill James Bond. I'm also a co-host of the Trash Rooture podcast and the What a Hell of a Way to Die podcast. So if you're interested in leftist takes on the military veterans, issues, et cetera, hell of a way is your bag. And if you just want dystopia laughs on Trash Rooture as well.

And thank you very much. This has been an absolute pleasure. That's been really wonderful. And here's something I've forgotten to have actually mentioned on a recording, but I, Devin, am the producer of the podcast, 10,000 posts with his Zankas, Vani and Phoebe Roy, which you can find at 10k posts. And it's extremely good. You know what? Also, I do a podcast called, well, there's your problem. Abigail, you should really get a side gig. It's weird that you're only doing this podcast. Yeah, I should. Yeah. You're sort of like getting like a, like a TikTok or something. There are actually some people who like listen to this and then found philosophy chiefs that like shout out to like those people,

you guys will do. If you have not watched my YouTube channel, you should do that. And you should also just like, you should buy a television and start watching TV. It shows in preparation for next year because I'm gonna be in some. This has been Kill James Bond. Thank you for listening. Our next bonus episode is,

I don't know what it's gonna be, but a future bonus episode will be another Jack Ryan cannon. It will be Patriot games at some point and we'll get Nate back on. Oh yeah, I am stoked. Super stoked. Alright, well, thanks for listening. Theme song. Theme song.

Theme song credits roll. See you later baby. Wow. Thank you for listening to a yet another episode of Gilgames Bond. See ya later baby! WAH! Thank you for listening to A Yet, another episode of Kill Jane's Bond. If you happen to be a police person, I did not mean that final remark. That was a joke that I was doing. As a joke. June and next week for our License to Kill episode on the Free Feed, a rip-roaring 80s action

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