Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - “A Chaotic Life” Andrew Urdiales

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

He endured extreme childhood abuse, served in the Marines, and was eventually diagnosed with schizophrenia. Between 1986 and 1996, Andrew Urdiales turned his anger into murder, taking the lives of eight women. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder and sexual assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under 13. On April 16, 1989, Tammy Irwin strutted down a sunny street in Palm Springs, California. Each time the 18-year-old heard a car pull up behind her, she turned and winked at the driver, trying to catch the eye of any man who passed by. She needed cash, and she needed it fast. For a while, Tammy struck out,

but eventually a light-colored vehicle pulled up beside her and stopped. The driver, a slight young man with a buzz cut, rolled down his window and asked if she was looking for some business. Tammy took a moment to size the man up. He seemed timid and a little tense. She assumed he was in the military. There were always Marines coming into town from the nearby base. Marines usually had more money than time, which was fine with her.

She smiled and climbed into the car. Tammy had gotten a couple of things right. Her client, Andrew Erdiallis, was a Marine, and he was oddly stiff. While the two had sex, he barely emoted at all. But she was wrong about Erdi Alice being timid, When Tammy asked for her money, he flew into a fit of rage. In a flash, Erdy Alice pulled a gun and shot Tammy in the head. She was his fourth victim, and far from his last.

Hi, I'm Greg Poulson. This is Serial Killers, a podcast original. Every episode, we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. Today we'll cover Andrew Erdiallis, a terrifying person. killer who preyed on young women in Southern California and the Chicago area. I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Richardson. Hi, everyone. You can find episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. To stream serial killers for free on Spotify, just open the app and type serial killers in the search bar.

Today's subject is Andrew Erdi Alice, a brutal killer who murdered eight women from 1986 to 1996 and was eventually diagnosed with schizophrenia. In this one-part episode, we'll discuss how Erdialis endured extreme childhood abuse, served in the Marines, and eventually embarked on a horrifying killing spree. We'll be back with more on Andrew Erdiallis right after this. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Whether you're hiring for a role or searching for a killer, the hunt can be exhausting. When detectives looked and searched to find any kind of evidence to find the person they were looking for, like Jack the Ripper, the Golden State Killer, the Unit Bomber.

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Watch only on Prime. From the very beginning, Andrew Erty Alice's life was chaotic. It was born in 1964, into a busy Chicago household, one of the first. six children. His mother, Margaret, was raised by abusive parents, an alcoholic mother and a womanizing father. She also experienced major mood swings. Throughout her life, she claimed that she spoke to ghosts. Family members regularly found her mid-conversation with an entity they could not see. Vanessa is going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note, Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she has done a lot of research.

for this show. Thanks, Greg. After he was eventually captured, Andrew Erdialis was examined by Yale University psychologist Charles Upsall and NYU psychiatrist Dr. Dorothy Lewis. Both Upsol and Lewis, who wrote the book, Guilty by Reason of Insanity, spent more than 40 hours evaluating Erdiallis. The researchers also interviewed his mother, Margaret. They concluded that her intense paranoia, coupled with the family's many stories of her psychosis, suggested she may have had schizophrenia. The disease has no single diagnostic criteria, and as a diagnosis, it can refer to a variety of mental health profiles. According to the American Psychiatric Association, schizophrenic patients experience delusions, hallucinations, and disorganization in speech and behavior.

The condition is also known to reoccur in penclusive. families. Considering Erdialis was also diagnosed schizophrenic later in life, it's likely his condition was passed down from his mother. Margaret's illness certainly caused Erdiallis difficulty during his early years. As a young boy, he was terrified of the belt that his mother kept in the freezer. Whenever he heard that door swing open in the middle of the night, he knew a beating was coming, often for no discernible reason. Unfortunately, Margaret wasn't his only sedent. parent. His father, Alfred, also a victim of a violent household, physically and mentally abused his children as well. In addition to doling out harsh physical punishment, Alfred took pleasure

in randomly waking his children in the middle of the night. He assigned them dozens of impossible chores, demanding they work on them until son up. On occasion, Alfred also did little to stop others from abusing his children, particularly Erdi Allis's older sisters. At some point in Andrew's childhood, the family took in Alfred's teenage nephew, Richard, who had been put up for adoption. Richard sexually molested Erdi Allis's sisters, Cynthia and Monica. When Alfred found out, he beat the boy to within an inch of his life and kicked him out, but the damage was done. Violence against women was the norm in Alfred's household, and it proved to have lasting effects on his son.

According to some researchers, childhood sexual and physical violence is commonly mirrored in the crimes of adult serial killers. Alfred and Margaret perpetuated a cycle of violence, and so do their children. Perhaps in a reaction to her own childhood trauma, Monica eventually formed an incestuous sexual relationship with Erdialis when he was still prepubescent. Monica insisted the incidents never went beyond heavy petting, but by the the time he hit puberty, Erdialis was overwhelmed by emotions he couldn't process. It filled him with confusion and rage. In his early teens, his anger boiled over for the first time. When the

family dog wouldn't come after he called it, Erdi Alis snapped. He picked up a baseball bat and beat the dog to death. According to psychologist Gail F. Melson, harming pets is a common first step in the development of more serious crimes, such as those committed by a serial killer. It can be thought of as a gateway fantasy, wherein a would-be murderer test the waters before graduating to humans. Erdi Alis was clearly in need of help, but he had nowhere to turn. His family was abusive, and he had trouble-making friends. At school, he struggled to fit in. He was an average student with a speech impediment, which made it difficult to connect to his peers. All he had in those days were his dreams of escaping his home.

He worked hard to overcome his learning disability and managed to graduate from high school in 1982. Like many lost young men, Erdi Alas soon decided to join the military. The prospect of belonging to something greater than himself filled him with determination. He desperately wanted an opportunity to start over. In the military, he could get the structure that had been absent in his childhood. Perhaps he could even find his place in the world. So when the 19-year-old arrived at base camp in Pendleton, California, it must have felt like paradise. The weather, the pretty girls in neighboring San Diego, and the beaches were all nice perks,

but they weren't what Erdialis was most excited about. He was eager to find an outlet for the rage he felt simmering inside himself. To do that, he threw all his effort into his training. By all accounts, Erdialis was a model Marine. He had a leg up going into basic training, used to complying with the rigid demands of his father. Throughout his tenure in the military, Erdiallis seemingly maintained perfect form and conduct. If an officer asked him to jump, the only question he asked was, how high? He especially excelled at combat training.

He seemed born to kill. Unfortunately for Erdiallis, he didn't exactly find the violent outlet he was searching for. The mid-1980s were one of the most peaceful periods in the recent history of the U.S. military. With few opportunities to enter combat, Erdialis spent most of his time bouncing between Southern California military bases. He was eventually trained as a radio operator at the base in 29 Palms, California. After some time spent servicing as a grunt, he was tapped for officer status around 1985. But almost immediately, there were indications that Erdiard's Erdialis wasn't fit for the job.

When he had to deliver commands to his subordinates, Erdialis found it difficult to communicate. He developed a pronounced twitch and often lost his train of thought while speaking to others. Soon enough, those in his command started calling Erdialis urinalysis, implying that he needed to be drug tested. After only a year as a corporal, he was demoted. The twitching and trouble communicating could have been due to the brutal abuse Erty Alice endured during childhood. Growing up, he never had close friends or a long-term relationship. There was no one to talk to. But his issues also could have been the first symptoms of his

schizophrenia. In males, the disease typically presents itself between the ages of 18 and 24. The sudden onset of mental illness could have also worsened Ertyallus's existing tendency towards violence. Dr. Elizabeth Walsh of the London Institute for Psychiatry writes, that schizophrenics are statistically more prone to commit antisocial and violent behavior. However, it's important to note that while there is a violent minority of schizophrenics, most people with the disease are more likely to be victims of discriminatory violence, rather than perpetrators. With the right support, many people with the condition lead normal lives.

If Erdi Alis had been given psychiatric care at the time, he might have been able to overcome his condition. Unfortunately, he was not given that chance. Trained for murder and professionally humiliated after being demoted, Erdi Alas grew increasingly isolated. By January of 1986, 21-year-old Erdi Alis was tired of keeping his anger bottled up inside. He was ready to kill. In a moment, Erdi Alis takes his first life.

Now back to the story. Even though he tried to control his violent thoughts, 21-year-old Andrew Erdiallis found himself unable to resist the desire to kill. On the night of January 18, 1986, he decided to make his twisted urges a reality. Erdi Alis felt the adrenaline course through his veins as he walked onto the Saddleback College campus. He moved tensely down the sidewalk, trying his best to blend in with the sparse crowd. Every now and then, he reached inside his jacket and gripped the handle of the six-inch knife hiding inside. Herty Alice treated his sick fantasy like a military operation. Acquire target, eliminate.

He stalked the parking lot outside the dark campus, sticking to the shadows and hunting for an ideal victim. Eventually, he noticed 23-year-old student Robin Brandley walking to her car. She was all alone, and Erdi Alice saw his opportunity. As Robin reached for her keys, he attacked her from behind. He stabbed her 41 times with his hunting knife, then left her body crumpled next to her car, and fled the scene. At that moment, a switch flipped inside Erdi Alice. Until then, he had mostly stayed in control of himself. He planned out his every move and maintained strict military disarmes.

But once he attacked Robin, he could no longer hold himself back. It's possible that when Erdiallis killed Robin, he was already suffering from the delusions that would haunt him for years to come. Though he was later diagnosed with schizophrenia, we don't know for sure when his symptoms manifested for the first time. It's unclear if Erdi Alis was delusional that night, but unfortunately, his murder was all too real. If he did suffer from delusions while committing the crime, they weren't enough to prompt Erdiallis to seek psychiatric help. In the cold light of day, he kept quiet about the murder. Local police investigated the shocking death, but found no leads. Erdi Alis knew he was lucky that he hadn't been seen. After his first kill, he struggled to fight off his violent urges, but he was determined to stay under the radar. He threw himself into his duties as a soldier. Ironically, what Erdiallis hoped would be a path to improvement may have pushed him over the edge. According to analysis by researchers Christopher Hensley and Tammy Castle,

military service can provide form and technique to the bloody fantasies of many serial killers. Of course, as with any other risk factor, active duty on its own does not make anyone a killer. Nonetheless, Hensley and Castle write that for some serial murderers, military service worsened their violent tendencies. It was certainly the case for Erdi Allis. Now that he'd gotten a taste of blood, he constantly thought about killing. Weapon and combat training did little to take his mind off of it. For two years, he tried to repress the murderous impulses inside him,

all the while training to be a more efficient killer on the battlefield. By 1988, 23-year-old Erdi Alis was still a Marine stationed in Southern California. He remained socially isolated, rarely speaking to anyone else except when he was required to. When he was off duty, Erdialis went on long drives through the desert, often turning to sex workers to distract himself. He later commented that some of the women reminded him of his sister, Monica, who he had his first sexual experiences with. Employing sex workers helped Erdi Alis refrain from killing for a while, but in mid-1988, something changed. changed. He was no longer satisfied with sex. The homicidal rage he'd been fighting for the past

two years bubbled to the surface again on July 17th. His victim was Julie McGee, a 29-year-old sex worker who was often seen walking along the highway outside of Palm Springs. We don't know exactly what happened that night, but Erdi Alas likely proposition Julie and drove her to a remote spot in the At some point, after having sex, Ertyalus shot Julie in the head and abandoned her body in a ditch near Cathedral City, California. It was found the next day. Nearly everything about Erdiallis' second murder was drastically different than his first. Before, he'd targeted a suburban college student in a public place. This time, he preyed on Julie away from large crowds and prying eyes. His precautions were effective.

As he'd likely hoped, Erdiallis' second murder attracted far less media attention than his first. It was a lesson he wouldn't forget. For the most part, he focused his murderous rage on sex workers from then on. It's also possible there was another reason Erdius targeted the women he did. During his murders, he might have been in the midst of delusions. According to psychiatrists, Simone Ulrich, many individuals with psychosis suffer from delusions that lead to violent acts. Often, these are triggered by familiar images.

In Andrew Urdialis' case, it could be that his attacks were brought on when he saw a woman who reminded him of his sister. As research suggests, once a delusion takes over, the schizophrenic may become convinced of its reality and sometimes takes violent action in response. It's possible that in the moments Erdiallis killed, he believed his victims were his own family members. The delusions may have then faded after the murders. If so, it would explain why he was able to rationally act to cover his tracks and dispose of the bodies. Were he in the midst of a delusion, it would have been more difficult for him to process such practical concerns.

And eventually, he always returned to hunt again. After murdering Julie McGee, Ertyallis waited only two months before claiming his next victim. In late September of 1988, Erdialis picked up sex worker Marianne Wells while cruising around the San Diego area. Her body was found by police a few days later in an empty warehouse. Like Julie, she died of a single gunshot wound to the head. Local authorities investigated the scene, but there was little to go on at the time. Erdialis employed rigid discipline to keep from being caught. For nearly a year after killing Marianne, he kept himself under control.

However, this wasn't the case when he killed Tammy Irwin in April 1989. His desire to kill was apparently subdued in the years after 1989. He was partially helped by the demands of his job. In 1990, after six years of service, Erdi alice was deployed to Kuwait during the Gulf War. This was exactly what he'd been dreaming of. He'd always hoped the military would give him the chance to let loose his violent tendencies. However, he was ultimately disappointed.

The Gulf War turned out to be a short conflict, with few casualties, and Erdialis never saw combat. Afterward, the 27-year-old was honorably discharged and moved back in with his parents in Chicago. For another year, He stayed quiet and tried to build a normal life. He got a job as a mall security guard. He also started attending counseling sessions at the VA hospital as part of his standard discharge.

Unfortunately for him, the VA offered little in the way of meaningful treatment. Their records at the time didn't indicate that his doctors thought he was suffering from schizophrenia. It was a fatal mistake. In late 1992, Erdialis took a vacation back to his old hunting ground. he needed to satisfy his desires once again. On the evening of September 27th, Erdialis was back in Southern California. He rented a car and drove around the high desert, looking for prey. A little before 10 p.m., a young woman walking by the side of the road caught his eye.

The woman's name was Jennifer S. Benson. Only 19 years old, she had just missed her bus and was struggling to make it to work before her night shift started. Jennifer likely saw Erdiallis as her guardian angel when he pulled up beside her. She gladly accepted a ride from the stranger, worried that she might be fired if she was late. To Erdi Alis's dismay, Jennifer's work was only a short distance away. He had hoped she was on her way to a more secluded destination. Erdi Alas decided he couldn't attack Jennifer and dropped her off at work instead. But as she was leaving, Erdi Alis asked Jennifer if she was, he could take her to breakfast when her shift was over.

Jennifer demurred. She hesitantly agreed to breakfast, but gave him a fake phone number. Afterward, Erdy Alice immediately drove to a payphone and called the number she'd given him. Wrong number. Realizing the young woman had lied to him, Erdy Alice became enraged. He drove back to Jennifer's place of work and waited outside nearly eight hours

until she got off at 6 a.m. When she walked out and saw the familiar light-colored car parked across the street, Jennifer didn't know what to do. But after such a long shift, she didn't want to wait for the bus again. She decided once again to climb in Erdi Allis's car so he could take her home. During the drive, he started screaming out of nowhere about the fake phone number she'd given him. Before Jennifer could react, Erdy Alice slammed her face into the dashboard. He then drove Jennifer deeper into the desert and attempted to rape her.

As he tried to pin her down, Jennifer wriggled out of his grasp and managed to run away. Unfortunately, she didn't get far. Erdi Alice chased her down, grabbed her by the hair, and threw her to the ground. He tied her hands with rope and stowed her in the trunk of his car. Then he started driving again. Jennifer's mind reeled as she laid in the trunk. She knew that she was about to be killed. She worked against her restraints, fighting,

until finally she wrenched her hand free. She then felt around the trunk until she located the inside latch. But Erdi Alas was speeding down the highway. If she jumped out immediately, the fall could kill her. So she waited. After what seemed like an eternity, the sedan lurched to a stop. Before Erdi Alis got out of the car, Jennifer unlatched the trunk and sprinted down the road.

When Erdiallis saw her running, he grabbed a machete and took off after her. Luckily, Jennifer managed to flag down a passing military truck with two Marines inside. They took her to a gas station where she called the police. Erdi Alis gave up the chase when he saw the military truck stop for Jennifer. Terrified of getting caught, he managed to make it back to his car. He immediately returned the vehicle to the rental agency and flew back to Chicago. For her part, Jennifer tried to convince the police to investigate, but they had little to go on. All she could give them was a description of a rental car and a short, muscular, bald man.

Once again, Erdi Alice avoided getting caught, but the incident did scare him. He assumed the police were hunting him and didn't kill again for nearly three more years. But eventually he would be forced to kill again, no matter the risk. When we come back, Erdiallis takes his killing across state lines. Now back to the story. By the end of 1992, 28-year-old Andrew Erdialis had killed at least four women. After nearly getting caught in the act while attempting to claim his next victim, Erdi Alis reined in his violent impulses.

For nearly three years, he led to him. a quiet life at his parents' house in Chicago. But he couldn't keep his desires in check forever. By March of 1995, Urdiallis was confident that police were no longer searching for him. That month, he was once again visiting his favorite place to kill, the Southern California Desert. Just like he had done three years prior, Erdi Alas rented a car and drove to Cathedral City. After cruising around for hours, Erdi Alas'clock.

proposition 32-year-old Denise Manney for sex. Like so many others, Denise took a chance and trusted Urdi-Alas. She climbed in his car and headed into the desert with him. She never returned. When he described his crime years later, Herty Alice said he felt nothing during the sexual act with Denise. Then, as soon as it was done, he was overcome by inexplicable rage. He was unable to stop himself from drawing his gun.

and shooting her in the head. After Denise collapsed to the ground, Erdialis suddenly regained his senses. He stripped her body and left her to be devoured by scavengers. He ditched her clothes in the next trash can he saw and headed back to Chicago. Mission accomplished. After claiming his first victim in six years,

Erdialis felt liberated. New confidence and a ravenous bloodlust filled him as he flew back to Illinois. The California desert had fed his murderous rage for almost a decade, but his deadly vacations were becoming a burden. After all, he had a life back in Chicago. He'd found steady work in mall security and had to keep up appearances with his parents. Making things more complicated, Erdi Alis began seeing 25-year-old Laura Yulaki in the spring of 1996. They rendezvoused several times by Wolf Lake in Indiana, a quiet spot about 20 miles from Chicago, but their romance was fraught from the beginning. Thirty-one-year-old Erdy Alice certainly wasn't the

relationship type and had trouble connecting with Laura. Each time the two met at Wolf Lake, there was tension. But it was after their third meeting by the lake that things got out of hand. In the midst of a heated argument, Erdy Alice pulled his gun on. on Laura. She reacted by swinging wildly at him. She managed to knock the pistol out of his hand and broke one of his fingers. As Erdialis doubled over in pain, Laura ran off into the woods, but he wasn't about to let her go. He fumbled for his gun, trained his sights on Laura between the trees, and shot her twice. His aim was perfect. He dragged Laura's body to the shore and sank it in the lake.

Laura was the first of Erty Alice's victims who knew him by name. He was likely more worried than ever about being caught in the following weeks. But as time went on, he calmed down. Police found Laura's body on April 14th, but they weren't aware of her relationship with Erty Alice and never questioned him. The killer's confidence ballooned once again, and he waited only three months before seeking out his next victim. His latest target was 21-year-old Cassandra Coram, another woman who he had occasionally seen before.

The two weren't particularly close, but on July 13, 1996, they met at a bar in Hammond, Indiana. Then, according to Erdiallis, they drove out to Wolf Lake to have sex. There, a familiar scenario played itself out. Just like with Laura, Erdi Alis got in a heated argument with Cassandra, at the peak of his rage. He handcuffed her and taped her mouth shut. After driving south for about 100 miles, the two got out of his truck and he shot her in the head, before dumping her body in the Vermillion River. By then, Erdi Alas must have felt invincible. He had no qualms about once again targeting a woman who knew him personally.

Next, Erdi Alis attacked a 22-year-old sex worker named Lynn Huber. Urdialis had paid Lynn for sex on two previous occasions. In August of 1996, he spotted her carting a huge trash bag through Chicago streets. Urdi Alice offered her a ride, then drove her to an alley where the two had previously had sex. At that point, Lynn, who was homeless, asked Erdi Alice for a place to stay. He refused to let her stay at his home, and the two started arguing. Eventually, Lynn tried to storm out of the vehicle. As soon as she turned her back, Erty Alice grabbed a gun from beneath his seat and shot her in the head.

He then wrapped her body in a tarp and threw her in the back of his truck. He dumped her body back at Wolf Lake in Indiana, the same place he'd killed Laura. Incredibly, despite dumping the bodies of two women in the exact same place, Erdy Alice managed to escape detection. But Erdi Alis must have been nervous. For nearly a year after Lynn's death, he refrained from her. attacking anyone else. Then in April 1997, police were called to a domestic disturbance at a motel in Indiana. 32-year-old Erdi Ellis had gotten into a loud argument with a sex worker there. The sex worker explained to the police that Erdi Alis was trying to talk her into going with

him to have sex by Wolf Lake. The officer warned her against it, saying that girls had been dying there. Eventually, police let Erdi Alis Alice go at the scene, but they did send a copy of the woman's statement to Chicago PD, who had opened an investigation into the murders at Wolf Lake. Months earlier in an unrelated incident, police had confiscated Erdi Alas's gun. Now they had reason to compare that gun to the bullets recovered from the women found in Wolf Lake and the Vermillion River. Days later, Erdialis was taken back to the station for questioning. As soon as detectives showed him pictures of three women they suspected him of killing, he reportedly cracked. He muttered that he wouldn't be

making it into work and took off his tie. From that point on, Erdi Allis was the model perp. He told the officers everything he could remember about the three murders. Even more surprising, he also suggested that detectives look into his killings in California, describing each of his crimes in detail. By comparing his testimony with Jennifer S. Benham, It seemed these descriptions were fairly accurate. Though Erdiallis may have been suffering from schizophrenic delusions, his memory was crystal clear, which is surprising. According to Jared X. Van Snellenberg,

assistant professor of clinical psychology at Columbia University Medical Center, individuals with schizophrenia typically have poor, short, and long-term memories. Erdi Alis's beat-by-beat recall was highly unusual. To the detectives, it seemed the killer was excited to finally have an audience to hear about his heinous acts. A notoriously bad public speaker, Erdiallis suddenly became eloquent when he described as murders. They were apparently his only passion. Besides enjoying the attention, Erdi Alis wanted to portray himself as a hardened, emotionless killer. He insisted that he felt nothing for his victims and went out of his way to denigrate them.

He claimed that because the Marines had taught him how to kill, he was simply using his training. His act didn't exactly impress the police. On May 23, 2002, he was found guilty for the murders of Lynn Huber and Laura Yulaki. He was sentenced to death. His second trial for the murder of Cassandra Corum took place after psychologist Charles Upsall and psychiatrist Dr. Dorothy Otnow Lewis diagnosed her. Erdialis with schizophrenia. Because of this, his attorney attempted an insanity defense. However, it wasn't particularly effective. Erdialis was a functioning adult who appeared

coherent in his testimony on the stand. He failed to convince any jurors that he was unable to understand the consequences of his crimes. On April 24, 2004, the court once again sentenced 39-year-old Erdialis to death. For years, Erdius thought his fate was sealed. Then in 2011, Illinois passed a law abolishing the death penalty. But soon after the legislation was signed, pro-death penalty Orange County prosecutors arranged for him to be tried for his California crimes. In October of 2018, Andrew Urdi Alas, now 54, was sentenced to death for the third time. By that point, Erdi Alas felt hopeless.

It seemed a fitting punishment for a killer who took away so many women's lives, who was so obsessed with taking control for himself. He apparently couldn't stand to feel powerless against the system. On November 2, 2018, he was found unresponsive in his cell. The prison ruled it a suicide. After 54 long years, it seems Andrew Erdialis' demons finally got the better. of him. Thanks again for tuning it to serial killers.

We'll be back soon with a new episode. For more information on Andrew Urdi-Alice, amongst the many sources we used, we found the reporting by the Times of Northwest Indiana extremely helpful to our research. You can find more episodes of serial killers and all other Parcast originals for free on Spotify. Not only does Spotify already have all of your favorite music,

but now Spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals, like serial killers for free from your phone, desktop, or smart speaker. To stream serial killers on Spotify, just open the app

and type serial killers in the search bar. Have a killer week. Serial Killers was created by Max Cutler and is a parcast studios original. Executive producers include

Max and Ron Cutler, sound design by Jay Cohen, with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Carly Madden, and Joshua Kern. This episode of serial killers was written by Gareth Imperato,

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