Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - Ed Gein Pt. 2

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Hi listeners! After this week, we'll be taking a short break for the holiday. We'll be back in December with a special series to close out the year. Until then, here's Ed Gein Pt. 2. After murdering two women, robbing graves, and decorating his home with human body parts, Ed Gein found himself arrested and in the media’s spotlight. We look into his trial, institutionalization, and the public’s fascination with him… a fascination that still lives on today. Stay up to date with changes coming to the feed on @serialkillerspodcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey listeners, producer Chelsea back again to share the final part of our Ed Gein deep dive. As a reminder, these episodes originally aired in 2018, but with Gein and the media again, it felt like a good time to bring them back. Today, in part two, we're following Gein through his arrest, trial, all the way up to his death in 1984. After this week, we'll be taking a short break, and we'll be back in your feeds in December. Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes dramatizations and discussions of murder and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under 13.

Here's a joke. Why did they have to keep the heat up in Ed Gein's house? The punchline? So the furniture won't get goosebumps. This was one of the many children's jokes circulating merely days after Ed Gein's 1957 arrest for the murder of Bernice Warden in Plainfield, Wisconsin. these quips became such a hot trend in the state that people gave them a name, Geiners. Gein's crimes stirred their own media fascination and uproar in his hometown of Plainfield and beyond.

As we talked about last week, the 51-year-old handyman, murdered two local women, robbed at least eight craves from 1947 until 1952, and decorated his home with various body parts of many corpses. This week will explore Gein's trial. his institutionalization and the public fascination surrounding his arrest. His crimes made him the inspiration for several movie villains. Buffalo, Bill, and Hannibal Lecter in the Silence of the Lambs, Norman Bates and Psycho, and Leatherface in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Upon Gein's arrest in 1957, psychologists diagnosed him with sexual psychopathy and schizophrenia. Many people have labeled him as a necrophile and cannibal over the years, but Gein has denied ever eating or having intercourse with a corpse. Gein collected the heads and vaginas of dead women. He used their skin as well as other body parts to create a woman suit that he could wear. Gein also used bones, skin, and skulls as waist bins, soup bowls, and lambshades. Tavern owner Mary Hogan disappeared on December 8, 1954, and Gein often joked about it with the townspeople.

people of Plainfield, he'd tell them, quote, she's not missing. She's down at the farm right now. After his arrest in 1957, Gein's crimes were no laughing matter. But the Geiner jokes helped the people of Plainfield cope with the fact that such a disturbed killer had lived among them for so long. The press and townspeople immediately assumed that Gein was guilty of his heinous crimes if those jokes and nicknames were any indication. As for the criminal justice system, though, It would take more than a decade in court for the state of Wisconsin to formally charge Gein with first-degree murder. Hi, I'm Greg Polson, and this is serial killers, a podcast diving into the minds and motives of some of the most notorious serial killers. Today, we're going to continue a deep dive into the life of Ed Gein, the butcher of Plainfield, a murderer, grave robber, and the inspiration behind many notorious movie villains.

I'm here with my co-host Vanessa Richardson. Vanessa's not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she's not a lot of research for the show. Hi, everyone. We'd like to ask a quick favor. Would you leave a five-star review of serial killers on your favorite podcast directory? It seems so simple, but it really helps us out. And don't forget to subscribe while you're there, because a new episode comes out every Monday. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at Parcast.

And on Twitter at Parcast Network. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Whether you're hiring for a role or searching for a killer, the hunt can be exhausting. When detectives looked and searched to find any kind of evidence to find the person they were looking for, like Jack the Ripper, the Golden State Killer, the Unit Bomber. It's tedious work to find what you're looking for. So, if you're hiring, I've got news for you. You can skip the lengthy investigation and the tiresome process of sorting through hundreds of resumes

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Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. On November 16, 1957, Ed Gein shot his second victim. Bernice Warden with a 22-caliber rifle. She was the beloved owner of a hardware store in Plainfield. And she resembled Gein's mother, Augusta. Like his mother, Warden owned a successful store, and she had her own son, Frank. Later that night, on November 16, 1957, Gein was arrested for the murder of Warden.

He just remained silent. No one knew why, and it frustrated both the police and the public. Gein's silence especially frustrated Plainfield Sheriff Arch Schley. On the night of November 16, 1957, the sheriff investigated Gein's farm for six hours and was horrified by what he found. Shrunken heads, skull soup bowls, and skin-decorated furniture. When Schley got off work around 2.30 a.m., he didn't go directly home to his family. He decided to stop by Gein's county jail cell. Schley decided to take things into his own hands.

Schley stormed into the jail cell, grabbed Gien by the shoulders, and began slamming him against the wall. Schley hoped that he could violently coerce a confession out of Gine, but it didn't work. Ed Gein seemed shaken up, but his silence continued, until about 20 hours later.

Gein confessed to warden's murder at 11 a.m. on November 18, 1957. It's unknown what prompted him to finally speak, but Gein seemed ready and willing to talk about Warden's murder as well as the rest of the crimes. First, he talked about Warden's murder and claimed that he shot her by accident. Gein told District Attorney Earl Colleen that he went to her shop on November 16th to buy a half gallon of antifreeze. Gein claimed he didn't remember shooting warden because he was in a daze. He said that he had been testing the fit of ammo and a rifle in a store.

He claimed to vaguely remember that he loaded. the rifle. Gien theorized that the gun may have accidentally fired at Warden. In a medical evaluation of Gein, hospital social worker Kenneth Caldwell wrote that Gein thought Warden was a woman with a bad reputation and questionable morals. According to Gein, Warden had met her husband as he was dating another woman. Mr. Warden fell in love with Bernice and subsequently left the other woman who later committed suicide. Years later, Mr. Warden died of blood disgracea, which Gein believed to be punishment for Bernice Warden's earlier behavior. Gein may not have recalled shooting warden, but he remembered what he had done with her body.

He told D.A. Kaleen, quote, my memory is a little vague, but I do remember dragging her across the floor. I remember loading her body in the truck. Then I drove the truck out on the east road, at the intersection where 51 and 73 separate east of Plainfield. I drove the truck up in the pine trees. Then I walked to town and got in my car, and I drove it out there, loaded her body in the back of the car, and also the cash register. I loaded the cash register in the truck when I put her body in there. Then I drove out to my farm and took the body out of the car and hung it up by the heels in my woodshed. End quote. It's clear that Gein recalled many of the details from the night he shot warden, but he claimed that he was unable to remember himself pulling the trigger.

During the interrogation, he claimed with the police that he had not killed anyone else. Gein would later admit to the second murder of Mary Hogan, after police found her face in a paper sack in his home. It was skinned from her skull and preserved with oil. Vanessa, was Gein simply deflecting from the cops, or was there a psychological reason his memory could have blacked out during those killings? Gein could have been deflecting. He had told police that his days was similar to the days he used.

used to fall under when he exhumed women's corpses from graves. Even in modern times, you'll often read in media reports that the suspect in questions said they were in a daze as they committed the crime. Modern psychologists have found this to be extremely common. In several studies about the memories of murderers, a significant number of the killers had no memory of committing their own crimes. There are several possible causes for this. It could be dissociative amnesia when a person forgets a traumatic or criminal experience after it happens. The suspect could also have been in a dissociative state, which means they would have been in an altered state of consciousness during the violent event. But Gein was diagnosed with sexual psychopathy and schizophrenia.

Does this mean Gein really did have amnesia about the murder? Or was he lying? Well, it's definitely possible he was lying. Psychologists have found an interesting link between diagnosed psychopaths like Gein and this type of alleged amnesia. Due to their manipulative and deceptive tendencies, psychopaths are very likely to falsely claim to have some kind of amnesia if they believe that it can get them out of trouble. In fact, dissociative amnesia is less common in those who have diagnosed psychopathy.

Psychopaths can often vividly recall their memories of violence, and, like Gein, seemingly lie in order to avoid any consequences. That could explain Gein's day's claim, as well as why he remembered such specific details from the night of Warden's murder. In the United States, the Miranda Warning famously states that criminal suspects, quote, have the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney, end quote, during a police interrogation. The Miranda rights became law following the Miranda v. Arizona Supreme Court decision in 1966. Unfortunately, for Gein, that was nearly a decade after his initial arrest in 1957.

At the time of his confession and interrogation, Gein did not have an attorney. He obtained an attorney named William Belter at an unknown point before his arraignment. This is important to note because it's been speculated that this may have affected Gein's interrogation process. Police and D.A. Killeen

worried that he was being a little too agreeable during the interrogation process and confessing to crimes he did not commit just to be nice. Schley said the following about He's got a good appetite and never talks back to anyone. Central State Hospital for the criminally insane social worker Kenneth Colwell wrote in his report that Gien had, quote, trouble distinguishing between what he remembers and what he was told.

Crime Lab polygraph specialist Joe Willemovsky noted that Gine was cheerful and eager to please during his interrogation. Willamovsky even took special precautions not to put words in Gine's mouth. But still, Gein agreed to odd claims during his interrogation, which further fueled rumors in the town. For example, Willamovsky asked Gein, quote, Would you ever put on a pair of women's panties over your body and then put some of these vaginas over your penis? Gein's answer was, quote, that could be.

In November of 1957, Gein offered to show Schley where he buried bones around his home, but then he refused when he saw how many reporters surrounded his farm. The press became so hungry for information about Gein that the reporters often interfered with the investigation. This becomes a never-ending pattern. The public and the media would continue to entangle themselves and intervene in the pursuit of justice in the case against Gein.

D.A. Killeen attempted to have a, quote, news blackout, so potential jurors would not be biased, but it didn't work. Belcher handpicked six reporters for an exclusive sit-down interview with Gein, but instead a mob of journalists showed up. Schley cancelled the interview and told the media to leave. By November 23rd, 1957, the Geiner jokes were very popular, but they also helped spread untrue rumors about Gein. One Geiner took inspiration from Clement Moore's A Visit from St. Nicholas,

an excerpt from the rhyme, quote, Old Ed pulled the trigger and Mary fell dead. He took his old axe and cut off her head. Then he took his hacksaw and cut her in two. One half for hamburger, the other for stew. End quote. The facts in those lines are not entirely accurate. Gein did shoot Hogan with a 32-caliber pistol,

but he has denied using a saw while exhuming bodies. Anne Gein has denied eating any of his victims. Wisconsin Diagnostic Center chief psychologist Dr. Rudolph Matthias compared the wisecracks to, quote, the jokes exchanged among soldiers who are going into battle. Psychiatrist Dr. George D. Aarnt traveled to Plainfield to study the humor phenomenon and found that the jokes were a helpful coping mechanism for the residents of the town. Laughing at these morbid jokes helped ease the anxiety felt by the townspeople after Gein's atrocious crimes were revealed.

It's understandable. Gein's crimes turned Plainfield into a spectacle. Tourists and townspeople labeled Gein's home a house of horrors, and they'd visit it hoping to get a glimpse inside. Reporters from national publications like Time and Life magazines descended on the town within a week of Gein's arrest on November 16, 1957. As words spread about Gein's crimes, rumors took out a life of their own. Some townspeople claim that police found Gein's

death list of farmers' wives that he wanted to kill. Others believed that Gein had an unseen partner in crime with whom he robbed graves and mutilated corpses. A woman named Adele Watkins claimed to the press that she was Gein's girlfriend for 20 years. None of those rumors or claims turned out to be true. Gein also had nicknames in the press. Reporters called him ghastly Gein due to his emaciated appearance and The Butcher of Plainfield referencing his misdeeds with corpses. Both the police and the media were puzzled by the body parts found in Gein's home. They had assumed the heads, noses, and genitals found in the house belonged to Gein's other murder victims,

which is why he became a suspect in the respective disappearances of Wisconsin residents, Evelyn Hartley, George Gene Weckler, and Victor Travis. But Gein denied killing anyone else. He told police that he robbed Gris'am. graves for the body parts, but D.A. Killeen and the police did not believe that Gein was also a grave robber. Portage County Sheriff Herbert Wienerski was one of Gein's biggest skeptics. Wienerski identified Mary Hogan's preserved skin face in Gein's home and told the press that his discovery supported his belief that, quote, Ed Gein never robbed a grave in his life.

In addition, the townspeople questioned the logic of how Gein alone was able to dig up caskets, remove corpse body parts and rebury them within a few hours, and without leaving a trace of disturbance. They also felt that grave robbing didn't seem to fit Gein's meek personality. Grocery store owner Gile Ellis said, quote, I don't think he'd ever had ambition enough to open a grave. Plainfield Cemetery, Sexton, Pat Dana, didn't believe Gein's confession either. Dana said he never noticed any disturbances on the graves during his time as caretaker of the cemetery. He noted that the graveyard was, quote, too busy in the summer with mischievous teens who would surely notice a grave robbery.

Dana observed that the ground got very hard in the wintertime, making it very difficult to dig in cold weather. Plainfield citizens began to pressure D.A. Killeen to prove Gein's graveyard crimes. The district attorney told reporters, quote, I want no part in opening any graves to prove anything. Just think how the poor relatives feel, end quote. But on November 25, 1957, D.A. Colleen gave in to the demands. He told reporters that two graves in the Plainfield Cemetery would be opened, once permission was obtained from the deceased people's respective families.

Gein provided Colleen with a list of, quote, eight or nine names. Colleen chose to exhume the graves of Eleanor Adams and Mabel Everson. The crew decided to exhume Adams first. She was buried right next to Gein's deceased parents, Augusta and George. D.A. Kaleen thought if Gine did rob a grave, it would be Adams, due to her proximity to Augusta's resting place. It took Dana and his assistant Don Walner only about an hour of digging to reach Adams' wood

coffin. Colleen and Schley noticed that the cover had been split into two lengthwise. Dana and Walner lifted the lid of the coffin. They did not see Eleanor Adams' body in the coffin or any of her body parts. What they found in the coffin was a lot of the coffin. 12-inch crowbar. They found that Mabel Everson's casket also had a broken lid. There was no body left inside either. After the two-and-a-half-hour ordeal, D.A. Colleen declared, quote, as far as I'm concerned, this verifies Gein's story.

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polygraph tests are not always accurate. The results did show that Gain was responsible for the deaths of Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden. On November 22, 1957, Gine, Gien was formally charged with first-degree murder for the death of Bernice Warden by Washara County Judge Boyd-Clark. But what about Gine's other crimes? D.A. Kaleen said Wachara could not afford a lengthy investigation into each of Gien's misdeeds, including the murder of Mary Hogan. Colleen felt that the prosecution had more than enough evidence to convict Gine of Warden's murder. Colleen wanted to solely focus on charging Gein for Warden's murder in order to save the county money from any further investigations. For the murder of Bernice Warden, Gein's attorney William Belter entered his client's plea, not guilty by reason of insanity.

Pleading insanity is formally known as the insanity defense in criminal law. For this purpose, the definition of insanity is a legal term and not the widely known psychological term. So what is legal insanity and how is it determined? Contemporary courts judge legal insanity using several tests, which are determined by state law. Back in 1957, Gein was evaluated using the McNatton rule. The McNaughton rule was first established in the British House of Lords in 1843. At Gein's own sanity hearing, Attorney General Honek said Gein would be ruled legally insane if he met the following criteria. One, Gein was unable to assist or confer with his defense attorney, and two, Gien did not know the difference between right and wrong.

Wisconsin state law requires a diagnosis of mental illness in order to use the insanity defense. It requires proof that the defendant had not been able to tell right from wrong due to mental illness. Gein's insanity plea caused a bit of an uproar among the people of Plainfield. They feared that Gine would avoid any kind of punishment for his crimes by, instead entering a mental hospital. D.A. Kaleen tried to reassure the town that, quote, Ed Gein would never walk the streets of Plainfield again. Gein's insanity hearing took place on January 6th, 1958.

Three psychiatrists testified in court. Central State Hospital Superintendent Dr. Edward F. Schubert described Gein as a chronic schizophrenic who could not be held criminally responsible for his actions. His reasoning was that schizophrenics can act rational for prolonged periods of time, while being psychotic at others. Dr. Milton Miller agreed with that assessment in his testimony. He concluded that Gein lived a divided life for more than a decade.

He was a meek and shy handyman in public and a grave-robbing murderer in private. For Dr. Miller, that was solid proof of Gein's legal insanity. In the final testimony, Dr. Edward M. Burns agreed with Dr. Miller and Dr. Schubert about Gein's mental illness. Dr. Burns, however, noticed that Gein was able to confer with his lawyer and concluded that Gein was, just barely, legally sane. Judge Bundy called Gein's insanity ruling one of the hardest decisions he had faced in his career. The judge said in his final ruling, quote, I can't see my opinion can be anything other than to find this defendant insane, end quote. Judge Bundy sentenced Gein to Central State Hospital and will pawn Wisconsin for, quote, an indeterminate term of commitment, end quote.

The people of Plainfield were not satisfied with the result. Eleanor Adams' husband, Floyd, sued Gein for, quote, wantonly disturbing his wife's grave and claimed, quote, mental suffering in the amount of $5,000, end quote. Frank Warden and his sister Miriam also filed a lawsuit against, Gien in the amount of $57,800. Judge Boyd-Clark mandated that Gine's farm and belongings be auctioned off in order to pay off the claims made against him. However, Gine's house mysteriously burned down after many townspeople protested the auction amid concerns about the farm turning into a museum.

The auction still occurred as planned on March 30, 1958, and the sale of Gine's personal items made enough money to cover the claims against Gine. Concerned citizens of Plainfield held a town meeting in March 1958 to figure out how to appeal the decision. They got Portage County District Attorney Attorney General, John Haca, to ask Wisconsin Attorney General Stuart Honick if the state would consider an appeal. Honick wrote back in response that Judge Bundy's decision wasn't the final word in the case. Honick wrote back, quote, The order merely holds that the defendant is not competent to stand trial at the present time.

Upon his recovery, if that should ever occur, the defendant may still be brought to trial. End quote. Vanessa, what is the likelihood of recovery for a person with schizophrenia and sexual psychopathy like gain? Well, it's possible to recover from schizophrenic episodes, but the disease itself needs to be maintained. The National Alliance on Mental Illness estimates that half of two million Americans with schizophrenia can recover significantly from schizophrenic episodes if they're, received treatment. However, studies also show that about 20% of schizophrenia patients on medications will relapse within a year after successful treatment of an acute episode. In 1952, Parisian surgeon Henri Laboree convinced psychiatrists to use chlorpromazine, a tranquilizer drug,

to help schizophrenia patients. It became the first drug identified to treat the mental illness and was considered a huge advancement in psychiatry. In 1954, chlorpromazine was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. As for Gein, there's no record that he took chlorpromazine or any medications at all. Central State Hospital staff described him as an obedient patient, who did not require any tranquilizing medications. Dr. Schubert even called Gein a model patient. He said, quote, if all of our patients were like him, we'd have no trouble at all.

By all accounts, it seemed like Gein enjoyed being committed to Central State Hospital. He also got along with everyone, although sometimes he leered at the female nurses. He ate three meals a day and even gained some weight on his formerly thin frame. He made arts and crafts as part of the occupational therapy program and built a ham radio. Gein told Wisconsin's then governor-elect John Reynolds, quote, I'm happy here, it's a good place. Then, Gein lowered the volume of his voice and said, said, some of the people here are pretty disturbed, though. Despite his newfound happiness, Dr. Schubert said,

I doubt if Mr. Gein will ever change. Because of the media and the public's never-ending interest in Gein, the doctors at Central State Hospital closely monitored his progress. Every six months, staff psychiatrists evaluated Gein as to whether or not he was fit to stand trial. Dr. Schubert assured the public that even if Gein was found suitable for trial, the murderer would quote, either be found insane and returned to the hospital or be found guilty and sent to prison.

The doctor's expert opinion would be tested in 1968 when Gein would finally stand trial. Every outfit starts with a choice. What am I wearing underneath? Something comfortable? And let's be honest. Something that keeps everything looking smooth. That's where Vanity Fair lingerie comes in.

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Not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com. Enter your license plate or Vin and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? accept it schedule pickup and we'll come to you with a check in hand your car your timeline your terms visit carvana dot com to sell your car today carvana pick up fees may apply from 1958 until 1968 ed gine remained in

central state hospital he was completely unaware that the outside world's fascination with his crimes had inspired a novel and a classic alfred hitchcock film called psycho in 1957 writer Robert Block had moved from Milwaukee to Waioiga, Wisconsin, which is located 30 miles from Plainfield. He became captivated by the rumors and news articles circulating about Gein, and Block began writing. In 1959, Block published the novel, Psycho, which features the villain Norman Bates,

a mother-obsessed murderer inspired by Gein. The novel was adapted into the iconic Hitchcock film, Psycho, and was released in theaters in 1960. Mother, my mother, what is the phrase? Quite yourself today. No one really knows if Gein ever saw or heard of the movie that he inspired. The Central State Hospital staff kept him well guarded from constant interview requests from reporters, sociologists, and fans. Yes, you heard that right.

Gein had fans. He received the occasional fan letter asking for a lock of his hair. Vanessa, why would someone be a fan of a serial killer? Well, criminals get a certain amount of notoriety, especially when they receive as much press coverage as Gien did. This attention turns them into celebrities in the eyes of some people, leading to further fascination. Still, Gine's most important interaction was with the Central State Hospital staff, when they evaluated his suitability to stand trial every six months. In January 1968, Dr. Schubert sent a letter to Circuit Judge Robert Galmar.

In the letter, Dr. Schubert said that he said that he said, he said, he and his staff found that Gein was finally competent enough to go to court and understand the charges against him. This enabled prosecutors to reopen Gein's case. Gein's name returned to newspaper headlines. Plainfield townspeople began protesting again. Some people went around in jest and talked about starting a Gein defense fund to help him get a, quote, new suit, new shoes, and a shovel. At age 62, Gein reported to court on January 22nd, 1968 for preliminary proceedings, and his appearance shocked the people of Plainfield. He had gained a significant amount of weight. He no longer looked like the emaciated,

ghastly Gein from 10 years before. He appeared fully prepared for court, but Gein was not ready for the media swarm that greeted him during the trial. Reporters remained in the courtroom when the trial was in session, and they overwhelmed Gein with questions during recess. The only question he was able to answer for them was how to correctly pronounce his name. Gein's trial finally began on November 7, 1968, after nine months of numerous preliminary motions, brief filings and various legal maneuvers by both sides. His team of defense attorneys was led by William Belter, who originally represented Gein after his 1957 arrest. Belter quit his job as an assistant district attorney and Washera County to take Gein's case

again. Judge Galmar presided over the trial and granted the defense team's request to not have a jury. The proceeding was a bifurcated trial split into two phases. In the first phase, Gine would be charged with the first-degree murder of Beatrice Warden. If he were found guilty, another trial would be held to determine whether he was sane or not at the time of the crime. The defense entered Gein's pleas in court. Not guilty and not guilty by reason of insanity. Many witnesses took the stand for the prosecution, but one was missing, Arch Schley. At age 43, the former sheriff died of a heart attack a few months before the trial began. Many people theorized, though, that his heart attack was caused by his anxiety about being subpoenaed to testify in Gein's trial.

Friends had seen how traumatized Schley had been after investigating Gein's case back in 1957. The defense team's key witness was Gein himself. He took the stand and stuck to his original story. Gein told the judge that he shot Warden by accident. He relayed to the judge how he went to Warden's store and inserted a 22 short bullet into the Rifles magazine to make sure it would fit. Gein claimed that he did not remember removing Warden's body from the store, and he didn't remember dismembering the body at the farm.

In his testimony, Gine tried his hand at psychoanalizing himself. He theorized to the judge that seeing Warden's body and the blood caused him to black out. Gein said that whenever he saw blood as a boy, he would, quote, either faint or black out. That's why I cannot remember, end quote. Judge Galmar rejected Gine's defense entirely. On November 14, 1968, Gain was found guilty. of first-degree murder. Judge Gullmar believed that Gaines' actions, after Warden was shot,

didn't reflect someone who had committed an accidental action. The judge said, quote, while he testified that he had no personal recollection of dissecting the body, I think there could be no question that this was done by the defendant and that he hung her in his woodshed. Gine's second trial began immediately after the first verdict was read, and it only took a few hours to determine his sanity. centers, Dr. William Crowley and Dr. Schubert testified and confirmed that Gein is still a long-term schizophrenic. Two days later, Judge Galmar relayed his decision and ruled that Gein was in fact mentally ill. He determined, quote, the court does further find that as a result of his mental

disease, that he lacked substantial capacity to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law. The court does hereby find the defendant not guilty by reason of insanity. Gein would be recommitted to Central State Hospital. That's right. Gein had been both convicted of murder and subsequently acquitted in the same week. After the verdict was read, Gein spoke to the press while dressed in the same blue suit in which he began the trial. He told reporters that he was looking forward to returning to Central State Hospital. Gein said, quote, they treat you pretty good there.

During the press conference, Gine did some more amateur psychoanalysis on himself. He theorized that the town of Plainfield, and not his mental illness, was the cause of his crimes. He also seemed to blame his family for moving from La Crosse, Wisconsin to Plainfield during his childhood. Gein told reporters the following. Quote, Locality has an awful lot to do with a person's life. I believe if we had stayed in La Crosse, this thing would never have happened. I believe it was just my bad luck to go to a locality where the people were not as friendly

as they should have been, end quote. Vanessa, why would Gein blame his crimes on his, quote, bad luck and the town he was raised in? Well, we need to remember that Gein is a diagnosed psychopath. Shifting blame is a hallmark of personality disorder. Psychopaths rarely take responsibility for their own actions. Instead, they show blame externalization, meaning that psychopaths blame others for things that are clearly their own fault. In this case, Gein has decided to shift all the books.

blame to the town of Plainfield, his former neighbors, and so-called bad luck. Gein would not be charged or tried for any other crime. He would never stand trial for the murder of Tavern owner Mary Hogan. Unfortunately, she became reduced to a footnote in his criminal proceedings. It was Judge Galmar who had decided not to pursue the case. In 1981, he published a book about the trial, in which he wrote, quote, due to prohibitive costs, Gein was tried for only one murder, that of Mrs. Warden. He also admitted to killing Mary Hogan, end quote. But the question of Gein's sanity would continue to be explored.

Like his previous commitment, Gein's stay at Central State Hospital depended on the evaluations of the staff. If the doctors ever found him to be mentally healthy, Gein had a chance at being discharged. In February 1974, he thought he had that chance. At age 68, Gine filed a petition with the Washore County Court, claiming that he had, quote, now fully recovered his mental health and is fully competent, and there is no reason why he should remain in any hospital, end quote. Gein had a good life at Central State, considering his circumstances.

He worked as a carpenter's helper, a mason, and hospital attendant. Gein told the press, quote, if you want to go someplace, you can't go. It is human nature to want to go someplace, end quote. Although when pressed, Gine wasn't quite sure where he wanted to go, but he knew he did not want to return to Plainfield, and he knew he wanted to be in a big city. Gein told reporters, quote, I know several trades, I can do almost anything, end quote.

In June 1974, Gine had another sanity hearing, once again presided over by Judge Galmar. He wore the same blue suit, but showed a lot more personality and confidence, with the press. He smiled for the TV cameras and even joked around with the sketch artist. Gein playfully told the artist, you could have made it a little more handsome. Gein was a bit nervous, but he seemed comfortable in the process. After all, this was his third sanity hearing. This time around, three different doctors gave their testimony regarding

Gein's well-being. Dr. Thomas Malig, University of Wisconsin Medical School Head of Psychiatry, Dr. Liam Roberts and Dr. George Arndt, who studied the Geiner jokes years before. Dr. Malig testified that Gein's psychosis was still there, below the surface, and could come out at any moment. Dr. Malig described his exam of Gein earlier that year, in which Gein had not been receptive to Dr. Malig's questions, and even made some violent jokes and statements. The doctor said that Gein told him, quote, Psychiatrists are probably responsible for a lot of trouble in the world because of making people dig up the past. I think a lot of prisoners here might go out and kill him, rob them, club them, because of digging up the past, end quote.

Dr. Malig described a test he gave Gein with proverbs, and Gein had a very personal reaction to them. The most telling, Dr. Malig said, was Gein's response to the proverb, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Gein had told the doctor, quote, if you have a bird in your hand, you might squeeze him too tight and kill him, end quote. Dr. Malig said that Gein needed to remain committed, but perhaps he could be transferred to a less restrictive hospital.

Dr. Lee Roberts disagreed. She worried about the, quote, accessibility of women that Gein would have at other hospitals. Dr. Roberts and Dr. Arndt both testified that Gien should remain in Central State Hospital. Dr. Schubert agreed and added, quote, I don't think he has the strength to cope with society now, and I don't think he ever had the strength to cope with society.

Judge Ghalmar delivered his verdict. He rejected Gine's petition for discharge. The judge voiced concerns about Gine having issues adjusting to society after having been institutionalized for over a decade. Galmar said the following, quote, I don't know whether it would be dangerous to Mr. Gine to release. him, but I do know that it would be horribly frustrating for him." End quote.

When the verdict came down, Gien wasn't shocked or upset. He remained calm. He may have expected this outcome, considering his past hearings, but he didn't say anything about it. Gein smiled as he exited the courtroom and headed back to Central State Hospital. Later in 1974, people would learn just how influential Gine had become at Central State Hospital. Former Central State Hospital patient, Pervis Smith, was suspected in the murder of an 86-year-old woman named Helen Lowe. Smith had allegedly bludgeoned her to death, gouged out her eyes, and attempted to peel the skin off her face.

Smith told police that he had learned all about murder, mutilation, and making face masks from his friend, Ed Gein, at Central State Hospital. In 1978, Central State Hospital was converted into a correctional facility. So Gein was transferred to Mendota Mental Health Institute at age 72. A spokesperson for Wisconsin State Health and Social Services said that Gein was eligible for transfer due to a stable condition and low security status. In 1984, Mendota's geriatric ward would be his final home. On July 26, 1984, Ed Gein died of cancer-induced liver and respiratory failure at age 78. He was buried in an unmarked plot in Plainfield Cemetery, right next to his beloved mother, Augusta.

Gein's legacy carried on. Judge Golmar published a book about Gein in 1984, and the case's witnesses continued to receive media attention until their own respective deaths. Gein also inspired more films. The late filmmaker Toby Hooper grew up hearing about Gein's crimes as a child, and it would inspire him to make his 1975 class-eastern. horror film, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Gein would serve as one of the main inspirations for the chilling villains, Buffalo Bill,

and Hannibal Lecter in Thomas Harris' 1988 novel, The Silence of the Lambs, and the Oscar-winning 1991 film starring Jody Foster. Even though Gein was not formally convicted of his crimes, his horrors live on. Thanks again for tuning into serial killers. If you want to listen to any previous episodes of serial killers, You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Tune-in, Google Play, SoundCloud, Stitcher, and Spotify, or in our website, parkast.com, spelled p-a-r-c-a-S-T-A-S-T dot com. If you like what you hear, please leave a five-star review or tell us what you think on social media. We're on Facebook and Instagram as at Parcast and Twitter at Parcast Network.

It seems simple, but it really helps our show. Join us next Monday as we delve into the twisted psyche of Harrow. Shipman. Have a killer week. Serial Killers was created by Max Cutler and developed by Ron Cutler. It is a production of Cutler media and is part of the Parcast Network. It is produced by Max and Ron Cutler, sound designed by Kenny Hobbs with production assistance by Carrie Murphy.

Additional production assistance by Carly Madden and Maggie Admeyer. Serial Killers is written by Mallory Kara and stars Greg Polson and Vanessa Richardson. A beloved 75-year-old man. washing up getting ready for bed is brutally beaten and killed. Despite an exhaustive investigation, the killer avoids arrest and then strikes again. I'm Global News crime reporter Nancy Hicks. You might listen to a lot of true crime podcasts this year, but they're not crime beat. Search for and follow the award-winning podcast Crime Beat on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Do you want to hear something spooky?

Monster. It reminded me of Bigfoot. Monsters Among Us is a weekly podcast featuring true stories of the paranormal. One of the boys started to exhibit demonic possession. Stories straight from the witnesses' mouths themselves. Something very snake-light lifted its head out of the water. Hosted by me, your guide, Derek Hayes. Somehow I lost eight whole hours. Listen now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.