Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - “Harv the Hammer” Harvey Carignan Pt. 2

Episode Date: October 21, 2021

When Harvey Carignan’s murder conviction was overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court, he no longer faced the death penalty. But he wasted no time returning to his murderous ways. As police start closing in, Harvey goes on the run, starting a horrific killing spree along the way.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of sexual assault of minors, rape, violence, and murder that some people might find disturbing. We advise extreme caution for children under 13. Harvey Carignan was furious. His new wife, Sheila, had turned out not to be the woman he thought he was marrying. Far from playing the docile, demuring servant he had expected, she dared to have a will of her own. It was unacceptable. He told her not to leave the house.

He needed her here. But she'd left anyway, taking her children with her and leaving him all alone in the house. Not knowing what else to do, he went down to the basement, where he sat stewing over their last argument. Sheila's basement was full of Harvey's unfinished woodworking projects, as well as his various tools. Looking around him, he was seized by a terrible idea. He reached out, wrapping one of his massive hands. around the handle of a hammer. He held it in his fist, testing the weight of it, imagining the kind of damage it could do to a human skull.

Pleased with where his imagination was taking him, Harvey settled in to wait for his wife. He'd show her how to honor their new marriage. After all, their vows had said in sickness and in health, they'd never mentioned murder. Hi, I'm Greg Paulson. This is serial killers, a Spotify original from Parcast. Every episode, we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. Today, we're returning to Harvey Caronian, a murderer whose frightening strength made him into a fearsome, slippery killer. I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Richardson. Hi, everyone. You can find episodes of serial killers and all other Spotify originals from Parcast

for free on Spotify. Last time, we discussed Harvey's upbringing, his first murder, and the legal technicality that saved him from the hangman's news. Today we'll talk about his second life as a serial killer and how he evaded capture for almost a decade. We've got all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Whether you're hiring for a role or searching for a killer, the hunt can be exhausting. When detectives looked and searched to find any kind of evidence to find the person they were looking for, like Jack the Ripper, the Golden Scare. The Golden a killer, the unit bomber. It's tedious work to find what you're looking for. So if you're hiring, I've got news for you. You can skip the lengthy investigation and the tiresome process of

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This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point and more. Slow burns, second chances,

chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. In 1951, Harvey Karinian's murder conviction had been overturned, and now, instead of the noose, he was sentenced to 15 years behind bars for the attempted rape of Dorcas Callan. But because of his good behavior,

he was released on parole in April 1960. After his release, Harvey moved to Minnesota, hoping for a fresh start, but his time outside of jail didn't last very long, and over the next decade or so, he was in and out of prison. In August of 1960, he was arrested for a third-degree burglary at assault with intent to commit rape, but the rape charge was dropped for lack of evidence,

but the burglary charge held up, and he was sentenced to just under six years. After four years, though, Harvey was released on parole, presumably again for good behavior, and moved to Seattle. In November of 1964, Harvey was arrested again, this time for traffic vagrancy and second-degree burglary. This time, he was sentenced to 15 years in the Washington State Penitentiary at Walla Walla, one of the oldest prisons in the U.S. While in prison in Washington, he became a student again, earning his high school diploma and enrolling in college-level psychology and sociology courses. He got a lot of A's for his work, with research papers on sexual psychopaths.

paranoid personality disorder, and the well-adjusted individual. He'd shown glimpses of intelligence as a young boy, and now Harvey had the wit to outsmart the system. Even though Harvey got into the occasional tussle here and there, he somehow was able to convince prison officials he was reformed, that he could be trusted, and it worked. After serving just over four years of his 15 years, Harvey was paroled in 1968.

And now when his early fours, he had spent more than a decade of his life behind bars. Now, Harvey had the rest of his life stretching before him. If he obeyed the law, he'd never spend another minute in a jail cell. For the average person, this might have been easy, but Harvey Karinian was not the average person. When Harvey was released, he decided to stay in Seattle, where he met a woman named Sheila Moran.

We don't know much about how they met, but we do know Sheila was recently divorced and owned a home, so perhaps Harvey believed she could offer some domestic stability. Whether or not he was right, Sheila did have three kids to think about, and maybe she also thought he could help pick up the slack. Harvey had less interest in a true partnership. He likely wanted someone who would never say no to him, and Sheila seemed to fit that bill.

Harvey had no intention of being overruled. After their married life began in 1969, he constantly pushed Sheila's boundaries. To her horror, he invited his old prison men, mates over whenever he could. It seemed like there was always another former convict in the house, and Sheila made it clear that she was not happy. In fact, it seemed to Harvey that Sheila was never happy when he was around. According to him, she was always nagging him about every little thing he did, but Harvey just didn't care. In fact, he resented Sheila for cramping his style, for being

ungrateful. He worked two jobs to support Sheila and her kids, and he was always helping out around the house. It wasn't fair, he thought. Why couldn't she just let him be? Whenever Harvey needed a break, needed to get away from his wife, he took long evening car rides by himself. Sometimes he'd be gone all night, then refused to talk about where he'd been. When Sheila pressed the issue, he said he did it to help him think. Then he'd changed the subject. Talking about his drives made him mad, like everything did. The extreme rage Harvey had experienced in his childhood had continued into his adulthood, and so did the violence. Once when an elderly relative was visiting, Harvey attacked the older man until he could barely move. All Sheila could do

was stand there in horror. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. As a reminder, she is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but we have done a lot of research for this show. Thanks, Greg. In a study led by psychologist Tasha Lee, researchers used MRI scans to show a disturbing trend in men who are physically abusive to their wives. Their results showed that these men are generally more hyper-responsive to even mildly threatening provocations. This suggests that some men might have a neurobiological predisposition towards spouse abuse. Can we extend these theories to help us understand all of Harvey's violent actions? Not quite, but violence could have simply been in Harvey Kerrhenian's nature, meaning there was nothing

anyone could do about it, except stay far, far away from him. Something difficult for some of his family members to do. For whatever reason, the relative didn't press charges, but the incident and the rest of her husband's behavior had made a strong impression on Sheila. Eventually, she told him she wanted to separate. For the first time in a while, Harvey likely found himself in a vulnerable position. Sheila, leave him? After all he'd done for her and her children, it wasn't right, he thought.

Then again, he mused, what about his problems with her? Didn't they matter? Sheila wasn't the soft, subservient woman he had always imagined a wife should be. In his eyes, she was as cruel and authoritarian as the women who had allegedly abused him when he was a boy. Furious, Harvey decided to remind Sheila that he was the real authority in their relationship. He became even more aggressive around the house. It got so bad that Sheila started to imagine that the next family member Harvey would hurt would be her. So through Harvey's rages, she remained as calm as possible, doing whatever she could to keep him calm.

It seems he never laid a finger on her. But then, he heard a voice telling him it was time to strike. After a particularly rough argument, Sheila and the kids went on a drive of their own. she wanted to get some distance from Harvey. That meant he was all alone in the house with no one to vent his frustration to, until a new presence made itself known. According to Harvey, he heard the voice of God that night, and it was not a message of peace.

God ordered him to go into the basement and pick up his hammer. Then when Sheila came home, he was to hit her until she was dead. So Harvey did as he was told. He sat in the basement cradling the tool in his large fist, thinking about what was coming. He waited until Sheila and her kids finally got home. He heard the car door slam shut, then the four sets of footsteps entering the house. Eventually, the basement door opened, throwing a thin shaft of light into the pitch dark where Harvey crouched, concealed behind the furnace.

He held his breath as a single pair of footsteps clunked down the basement stairs. Harvey's fingers curled tighter around the hammer's handle. It was time. Coming up, Harvey commits his first murder in years. Hello, I'm Hannah Maguire. And I'm Sarutie Bala. And we're the hosts of the new Spotify original from Parcast, Sinister Societies. You may know us from the very creepy and excellent podcast red-handed,

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Now back to the story. Harvey Karen Yin hid in the basement, waiting for his wife Sheila to come downstairs. He held a hammer tight in his fist. When he heard someone coming downstairs, his grip tightened. But after a few seconds, Harvey realized that the footsteps were too light to be Sheila's. It was his teenage stepdaughter coming towards him. So he put down the hammer and stayed hidden in the dark until the girl went back upstairs. She never even knew he was there.

Killing her hadn't been part of God's instructions to Harvey that night. Though we can't be sure Harvey's account of this incident is true. truthful. If it is, it's possible he was hallucinating. A 2012 study led by Kirsten Dalman correlated what are known as auditory verbal hallucinations, or AVH, with prior traumatic experience, especially childhood physical and sexual abuse. The results suggest that those who experienced childhood trauma were more vulnerable to AVH. Regardless of how he had come to hear the voice, though, Harvey wasn't able to enact God's will. So soon after, he packed a few necessary belongings into a suitcase and drove away.

Eventually, Harvey and Sheila got divorced. After that, his movements are hard to pin down for a year or so, but in 1972, he resurfaced, already in a new relationship. That year, 44-year-old Harvey married Alice Johnson, another divorcee. It's unclear exactly what Alice saw on her new bow. He wasn't exactly handsome, and he looked much older than he was. but he had at least one thing going for him. By this stage, Harvey was managing a lease for a gas station, which perhaps made Alice think he could provide for her and her two children. Of course, Harvey didn't mention that the gas station wasn't doing particularly well,

nor did he let her know that he regularly hid on the young women in his staff. It's possible Alice took Harvey's business as a sign he was going to be a stable partner, or perhaps she was taken in by his ability to turn on the charm when he needed to. In a 1987 study, researchers identified charm as one of six key tactics used for manipulation and close relationships. Of the six, charm is used to elicit a desired behavior from a partner rather than terminate an unwanted one. Harvey appeared to use his ability to manipulate Alice into thinking things about him that weren't true and changing her behavior to match those beliefs. Before long, Alice seemed to believe Harvey was a smart, hardworking,

and charismatic man. When he dialed up the charm, he seemed like a great husband. But when he turned it off, he was a completely different person, one who terrified his new wife and her children. Alice's son was 11 years old when Harvey came into the picture, and Harvey decided it was part of his role as stepfather to physically abuse the boy. He didn't stop there. He was physically abusive with his wife as well, but maybe because she was determined to make the marriage work, Alice. Alice stayed with Harvey. Perhaps, unlike their mother, Alice's son knew he had other options. A few months after Harvey moved in, the son announced he was leaving

and went to live with his biological father in California. His teenage sister stayed behind, which suited Harvey just fine, because it offered him more chances to be alone with the girl. One afternoon, Harvey tried to forcibly carry her into his bedroom. What he planned to do were not sure, because she managed to get away. Soon after the incident, she followed her brother's lead and moved in with their father. With the house to themselves, Harvey believed that Alice was excited by the prospect of a lone time with her husband.

According to him, she talked about wanting to work on their marriage. She missed the little moments of charm she'd seen before the wedding. But Harvey wasn't quite so invested in his relationship. He had other things on his mind. And just like in his first marriage, he dealt with his feelings by taking long solo drives. In October of 1972, Harvey was on one of these trips, cruising south of the city of Bellingham when he noticed Laura Leslie Brock. The 19-year-old was standing by the side of the road with her thumb out hitchhiking.

As Harvey pulled up beside her, Laura smiled at him, grateful to have a ride. As Laura buckled her seat belt, Harvey leered at her, his eyes lingering on her knee-high stockings. He asked her where she was headed and started driving. It's not clear where Laura was heading that day, but it likely wasn't Whidbey Island. Still, that's where Harvey decided to take her. What Laura wanted didn't matter to him. His desires were his only concern. He drove to an isolated part of the island and brought the car to a stop.

That's when he made his move. He reached over and started to address her. When she tried to stop him, he started hitting her with his fists. Laura fought back with all her might. She clawed his chest, scraping his hairy skin with her fingernails, but unfortunately, it wasn't enough. When Laura was dead, Harvey stripped her of all of her clothes, except the knee-high stockings he'd like so much. Then he left her body somewhere nearby and sped away into the night. He got home just as the sun was rising.

Alice was still asleep. Of course, he didn't tell her anything. His long drives probably upset her, and the last thing he needed was another wife, who complained. What he decided he did need, however, was to kill again. Laura's murder seemed to have rekindled his darkest impulses, and he wanted to feel the powerful surge again. This time, he didn't want to wait until he came across a young woman on the side of the road.

He wanted to bring her to him. So about seven months after he killed Laura, Harvey posted a want ad in the local papers, advertising for a new job at his gas station. It didn't take long for the ad to work. On May 2nd, 1973, 45-year-old Harvey got a call from Kathy Miller. The 15-year-old was calling on behalf of her boyfriend who was looking for work. It wasn't ideal, but Harvey saw potential,

so he was patient with Kathy and explained the role in great detail. Why, he suggested even Kathy herself might like the job. After all, she sounded like such a fine, intelligent girl. If she were the one looking for work, he said, he'd meet with her immediately. He could even pick her up somewhere and drive her to the gas station for the interview. As Harvey hoped, Kathy was flattered at the offer. By the end of the short phone conversation, the teenager had agreed to meet with Harvey. The next afternoon, Harvey put a roll of black plastic in the back of his purple Toronado.

Then around 2.45, he pulled up in front of the local Sears, where Kathy was already waiting. clutching her algebra book to her chest. He ogled her long blonde hair and the fit of her blue jumper. He waved her over and led her into his car. Once she was buckled in, he locked the doors. He acted like he was driving the teen to his gas station so they could talk about the job, but his true plan was far more sinister. He drove around for some time, which might have been confusing to Kathy.

But it wasn't until Harvey pulled to a stop in a deserted part of town, that she started to feel truly frightened. She had come to realize that she was quite alone in a stranger's car. But they weren't alone. Harvey had brought an old friend with him, his hammer. Lightning fast, he brought the weapon down on Kathy's skull, killing her instantly. With the murder itself over,

Harvey turned his attention to the next part of the process. He pulled the plastic sheeting out of the trunk and used it to wrap and hide Kathy's. corpse. Then he drove to the Tulalip Indian Reservation. He followed one of the wilder trails for a bit until he arrived at a small grove about a quarter mile from the nearest homestead. The grove was overgrown and looked like a popular spot for young couples to find some privacy. There among the daisies, salmon berries and wildflowers, Harvey left the naked, lifeless body of Kathy Miller, leaving the 15-year-old completely alone. He obscured her from view with a lot of

Large log laid across the trail. The black plastic was hard to make out in the undergrowth, and it concealed the shape of her body quite well. Pleased with his handiwork, Harvey drove away as quickly as he could, his exhaust fumes charring the tall grass around Kathy. On his way home, Harvey stashed Kathy's clothes and algebra book in separate places, each one far away from her body, and taking care to wipe off any fingerprints.

Once he got home, he scissored into his remaining roll of black plastic sheeting so that the edges of the plastic couldn't be matched to the sheet he'd wrapped Kathy in. It seems he'd thought of everything. When he finally stumbled into his house early the next morning, Alice had already eaten breakfast. She started to tell him that she'd been worried and that she'd been waiting all night for him, but he didn't let her finish. He wasn't interested in her worries. He told her to get his car washed and vacuumed,

trusting that she'd do exactly as he said. He knew he could trust Alice not to ask a thing. But some people were about to start asking a lot of questions. It didn't take long for people to notice Kathy's disappearance. She was declared a missing person, and investigators started looking for suspects. Her mother knew Kathy was supposed to meet Harvey for a job interview, and witnesses saw her get into a car with a man matching Harvey's description, which made him a person of interest to authorities.

Even still, there was no physical evidence to tie him to Kathy. Investigators brought him in for questioning, and he was a sweaty, stammering mess. It was suspicious, but not technically incriminating. So, Harvey was allowed to walk free, probably feeling confident that he'd gotten away with murder again. However, the following month, a pair of teenage boys were wandering through the Tulalip Indian Reservation

when they stumbled across Kathy's remains. By that stage, her body was too decomposed to make an ID. Her teeth were intact, so investigators checked them against a lot of, Kathy's dental records, it was a match. Suddenly, a missing person's case became a murder investigation. And just like that, Harvey jumped from person of interest to prime suspect. But as police moved in to search Harvey's car, the seasoned killer was on the run.

Certain that the authorities were closing in, he'd gassed up another vehicle and fled the state. He was heading home to Minnesota, and his killing spree was just getting stuble. started. Up next, Harvey abates police for as long as he can and claims more young lives. Want to support your gut health? Take Activia's gut health challenge by enjoying two Activia yogurt today for two weeks and see if you feel a difference. With billions of probiotics and 20 years of scientific expertise, Activia is one of the easiest and tastiest ways to start your gut health ritual. Try Activia today. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle

may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade.

Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak, and get your trip, Right. Kayak, got that right. Now back to the story. Minnesota was one of the first places Harvey Carignan had called home, and it was there that he was headed in June of 1973. After fleeing Washington, 46-year-old Harvey passed through California.

When Harvey was traveling through California, the bodies of a handful of young women had been found murdered over the last couple of years. Chillingly, most of those cases remain unsolved. but Harvey was suggested as a possible suspect for a few reasons. First, he received a traffic ticket in California on June 20th, possibly around the time of some of the women's disappearances. Second, Harvey was known to target young women, and specifically those who were hitchhiking.

In the end, though, no solid evidence tied him to any of the cases, and he was eliminated as a suspect. When he arrived in Minnesota, though, his new reign of terror began, and he wasted no time making his first. fresh start. On June 28, 1973, a man matching Harvey's description attacked a woman named Marlis Townsend at a Minneapolis bus stop. He lunged at her and clubbed her over the head. He dragged her to his car and bundled her inside, but as he drove away, she leaped out the window.

For whatever reason, the man didn't try to stop her. He just kept driving, leaving Marlis free to report the incident to the police. The officers on duty took her statement, but as far as we can tell that's all they did. Three months later, Harvey picked up a 13-year-old hitchhiker, sexually assaulted, and raped her, this time returning to his hammer as a weapon. That young girl managed to escape two and reported the incident to the police. All she could tell police was what her attacker looked like and that he told her his name was Paul. After that latest attack, Harvey kept a low profile. Perhaps he feared his victims would lead police to him, but he couldn't resist his urges for too long. In January of 1974, he noticed 28-year-old Eileen Hunley.

Her car had broken down, and she was stranded on the side of the road, so he pulled over to offer her a ride. For some reason, he didn't attack Eileen that day. Perhaps something about her soft features and dark hair drew him in, and after a couple of weeks, he asked her out on a date. The relationship continued for a while, but in August of that year, Harvey grew tired of having a girlfriend. However, instead of simply breaking up with her, he decided that Eileen would be his next victim.

He sexually assaulted Eileen, bludgeoned to death with a hammer, and then left her body. When Eileen didn't show up to morning services at her church on August 11th, her friends thought it was strange. When she didn't show up for work two days later, people knew something was wrong and alerted the police who began an investigation. As Eileen Hunley's body decomposed over the next month, Harvey continued his attacks, but two of them ended quite differently than Eileen's. In early September, Harvey picked up two teenage hitchhikers named Lisa and June. We don't know much about what happened next, but it seems Harvey attacked June with his hammer several times, leaving her bleeding and concussed.

Still, both girls lived to tell the horrific tale. Less than a month later, Harvey picked up. up 19-year-old Roxanne. Her car had broken down, she told him tearfully, and she didn't know what to do. But Harvey knew what to do. He drove Roxanne around for a while before he attacked. Harvey sexually assaulted, raped, and strangled Roxanne, and during that time, she phased in and out of consciousness. He eventually brought out his hammer and struck her skull. He left her in a ditch and drove away, thinking that the story was over. But somehow, Roxanne was still alive. When she woke up hours later, Roxanne dragged herself on her hands and knees to a busy road,

where a horrified tractor driver saw her. He escorted her to a hospital and she was able to reach out to the police. After that, everything finally started coming together. The authorities began to see patterns emerging among the recent murders and assaults on hitchhiking or stranded women. Unfortunately, more followed. A few days later, Harvey picked up two more young women, Sally and and Diane. During the drive, he slapped Diane across the face, busting her lip. He ultimately let both of them go, but one of their classmates wasn't so lucky.

The very next day, Harvey abducted 18-year-old Catherine Schultz, a young poet and musician who went to school with Sally and Diane. A good-natured teenager, Catherine had a special love for flowers and forestry. After he killed her with his hammer, Harvey left her body in the tall grasses and corn shocks north of Minneapolis. It would have been another untraceable crime, but as he sped away, Harvey left tire imprints in the dirt. Harvey's haste to escape the scene of his crimes had certainly helped him stay free in the past,

but this need for speed would ultimately be his downfall. When Catherine's body was discovered the very next day, police found the tire imprints and quickly traced them to Harvey's car. So investigators caught up to Harvey and brought him into the station for a chat. police then brought Lisa, June, Sally, and Diane in front of a lineup of men and asked them to ID the man who attacked them. They all picked out Harvey. Police also showed Harvey's mugshot to Roxanne, who recognized her attacker immediately. In fact, as soon as she saw his face, the memories of the assault came flooding back and she had to look away.

She was certain it was him and agreed to testify in court. For Roxanne's attack, Harvey was quickly charged with a... attempted first-degree murder and aggravated sodomy. The first of Harvey's trials began in February of 1975, and the evidence against the 47-year-old was stacking up. Even as he stood trial for the crimes against Roxanne, detectives continued putting together cases for other rapes, assaults, and murders. Perhaps knowing they wouldn't be able to prove their client's innocence,

Harvey's defense team decided to lean into the crimes. They wanted to show that no reasonable person could do what Harvey Carrienne did, In other words, they were planning a defense of not guilty by reason of insanity. A neat little trick if they could pull it off. When proceeding started, his lawyers argued that childhood sexual trauma had rendered Harvey a schizophrenic, psychotic type. They even called witnesses to back up their claim, including women who'd survived Harvey's attacks. One detective called him, quote, possessed by the devil.

For his part, Harvey sat cold and still. as a glacier, unwilling to meet anyone's eye. After court one day back in his cell, Harvey flexed his biceps at a detective, a tiny action likely meant as a mighty threat. In court, he didn't say a word, not until the defense team called him to the stand. However, it was then that Harvey's defense really started to take on water. Over the course of his direct examination, Harvey's answers were terse, direct, and unyielding. He refused to give anything more than the question demanded. The no-nonsense approach might have helped,

except that he repeatedly denied that he was insane. Instead, he claimed God had told him to commit all his crimes. Now, very much on the back foot, the defense pivoted, pointing to Harvey's claims of hearing the voice of God as evidence of his insanity. That alone was enough to prove he wasn't wholly to blame for his crimes, they argued. However, not everyone was convinced. One detective who'd spoken to Harvey said,

I know Harve. He may look crazy up there, and he may sound crazy, but he knows what he's doing. The prosecution then questioned Harvey about how he carried out Roxanne's attack and his knowledge of the law, suggesting that Harvey was rationally aware of his actions and knew they were illegal.

The stories about God, his religiosity, all of it was engineered just to make him seem insane. Crucially, Harvey's past came back to haunt him. During this third stint in prison during the 1960s, he'd written research papers on exactly the kind of person he was portraying now. Harvey's performance during the trial shouldn't fool anyone. On the subject of Harvey's sanity, two leading psychiatrists disagreed with each other.

The psychiatrist called upon by the defense claimed that because Harvey believed he was acting under God's bidding, he wasn't in control of his own actions. However, the prosecution psychiatrist reminded the jury that Harvey had previously explained that he was carrying out a kind of divine justice when he killed. Something he admitted he did in spite of the laws of man. This was an important distinction because it suggested he was still reasonable enough to realize that what he'd done was illegal.

Once both sides had made their case, it was over to the jury. It took them less than five hours to reach a verdict. In the case of Roxanne, the jury found Harvey Carignan guilty on all counts. In May 1975, he got 30 years for aggravated sodomy and 30 more for another sodomy charge against another teenage girl. It was only the beginning. Over the next year, Harvey pleaded guilty to the murder of Catherine Schultz and was convicted of murdering his girlfriend, Eileen Hunley.

It was enough to earn him a life sentence. Even after he was sentenced to live out his days' behind bars, Harvey's story fascinated experts. In a clinical evaluation after his first sentencing, the killer was diagnosed with severe antisocial personality, which means that, among other things, he doesn't experience empathy. However, his doctors recommended he stay in prison rather than receive medical treatment. In their expert opinions, there was nothing they could do. In a 2010 study, Martin Hesse at the Center for Alcohol and Drug Research in Copenhagen, in Denmark presented evidence suggesting that contemporary treatments were somewhat successful

at mitigating some of the symptoms of antisocial personality disorder. These treatments could lessen things like anger and violence, but treatments for this mental condition, as strong as it could be in Harvey Karinian, can only help mitigate symptoms, not completely eradicate them. The only comfort we can really take from that idea is that Harvey is unlikely to ever be released from prison. As of this recording, he's still in jail. And if by some twist of fate he was released, he's in his 90s and wouldn't pose much of a danger to anyone.

That said, Harvey Karinian doesn't deserve any more chances. He already got one more than he deserved and chose to use it for evil. Thanks again for tuning into serial killers. We'll be back soon with a new episode. For more information on Harvey Karinan, among the many sources we used, we found Anne Rules the Wadad Killer, extremely useful to our research. You can find more episodes of Serial Killers and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free on Spotify.

We'll see you next time. Have a Killer Week. Serial Killers is a Spotify original from Parcast. Executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler, sound design by Carrie Murphy, with production assistants by Ron Shapiro, Trent Williamson, Carly Madden, and Bruce Kitovich. This episode of Serial Killers was written. by Emily Duggan, with writing assistance by Joel Callan, fact-checking by Adriana Romero, and research by Brian Petrus, serial killers stars Greg Polson and Vanessa Richardson.

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A beloved 75-year-old man washing up, getting ready for bed is brutally beaten and killed. Despite an exhaustive investigation, the killer avoids arrest and then strikes again. I'm Global News crime reporter Nancy Hicks. You might listen to a lot of true crime podcasts this year, but they're not crime beat. Search for and follow the award-winning podcast Crime Beat on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.