Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - Harvey Miguel Robinson
Episode Date: August 28, 2023Harvey Miguel Robinson committed his first murder when he was just 17. As the son of a convicted murderer and violent abuser, did he ever have a chance? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podca...stchoices.com/adchoices
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I have to tell you, this episode is graphic, and listener discretion is advised.
This episode contains discussions of murder, torture, stalking, child abuse, home invasion, and sexual assault.
Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen.
There's a certain allure to the stereotypical high school bad boy.
Their brazenness against authority figures can seem like bravery.
Their awful temper can camouflage as passion, and their cool factor usually attracts friends who will make excuses.
for their bad behavior.
As they see it, the angry rebel is just going through a phase.
All he needs is to find the right person to love and feel vulnerable with,
and then he'll become a good guy, at least in the movies.
But for Harvey Miguel Robinson,
something far more sinister lurked beneath his mischievous charm.
By day, he looked like your typical teen,
shooting hoops in the neighborhood.
But by night, he was every woman's worst nightmare.
I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is serial killers, a Spotify podcast.
Episodes release every Monday.
Today we're taking you through the life of Harvey Miguel Robinson, the so-called Eastside stalker,
and one of the youngest serial killers in American history.
Stay with us.
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As one of the youngest serial killers in history,
some argue that Harvey Miguel Robinson's problems began years before he was born
with his father, also named Harvey.
In 1962, Harvey Rodriguez Robinson worked.
as a professional jazz drummer.
On the outside, he seemed like a regular dad.
He was married with family in the quiet borough of Pots Town, Pennsylvania.
But while pretending to stay in the city for work, he'd visit his mistress, Marlene Perez.
One night, Harvey Sr. and Marlene got into a heated argument.
Harvey Sr. turned violent.
He'd beat Marlene until she died on her own sofa.
A neighbor called the police and Harvey Sr. was arrested at the scene.
Although initially charged with murder, he was found guilty of the lesser crime of manslaughter
and was sentenced to six to 12 years in prison.
After his release, the 50-something drummer with a rap sheet met his next victim,
27-year-old Barbara Brown.
Barbara was an amateur hairstylist who cut hair at her home while mothering her son, George.
Soon after meeting, she and Harvey Sr. got married.
And in December 1974, they had a son, Harvey.
Miguel Robinson. The family settled in Allentown, Pennsylvania, but it wasn't long before
Harvey Sr. showed his true colors. The drummer drank constantly and physically abused the
entire family. Barbara filed for divorce after just two and a half years of marriage.
Harvey Sr. quickly moved out and three-year-old Harvey Jr. only saw his father sporadically
from then on. But even these weekend visits had an effect. Whenever he returned
home from his dad's, Harvey rebelled against his mom, throwing temper tantrums and making a mess.
The source became obvious when Barbara caught him tossing soda cans out of their moving car,
just like his dad did with beer. And it wasn't just Harvey's dad who modeled bad behavior.
When Harvey was five, his half-brother George was arrested for the first time at just 12 years old.
And while the behavior influenced Harvey, the threat of consequences like Juvie didn't.
he attacked some of his first grade classmates. After, he was placed in a program for socially
and emotionally disturbed children and forced to repeat the first grade. As a reminder, I'm not a
licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but we have an amazing team of researchers on the show.
Harvey had a number of factors working against him, which could have influenced his bad behavior.
A SUNY Albany study found antisocial personality traits, which often lead to criminal activity,
typically span three generations, and parenting methods only partially mediated antisocial behavior,
so the traits might be genetic, or they could be something that sticks in the psyche long after
it's witnessed in early childhood. Even if Barbara was the world's greatest mom, the odds were
stacked against her son both genetically and environmentally. Now, Harvey's behavior is not excused
by the fact that his father beat a woman to death, but it does help explain some of it,
especially when he got worse.
Harvey's first arrest dates back to December 5th, 1984, just before his 10th birthday.
We don't know what the charges were, but it seems his first brush with the law did little to hinder Harvey.
He'd be arrested at least 12 more times over the next eight years, mostly for theft and other property crimes.
It's unclear how Harvey's mother dealt with the constant trouble her sons got into,
but it's likely Barbara worked long hours.
She was a single mom supporting three kids.
When Harvey was 14, her hard work paid off.
Barbara bought a house in Allentown,
the place where everyone had known Miggy,
as Harvey's friends called him,
since he was a little kid.
And Miggy had plenty of friends.
Despite his troublemaking,
he was known as a sweet kid.
He and his friends spent their time playing basketball
at the nearby park on Irving Street.
But the stability wouldn't last.
In 1989, while Harvey was in middle school, his father died of liver cirrhosis.
This often results from alcohol abuse.
Around this time, Harvey began drinking and developed his own substance abuse problems.
In school, he took out his aggression on teachers.
One pregnant teacher reported she felt threatened by the 14-year-old and would only feel
safe with another adult in the classroom.
So the school brought in a social worker to keep an eye on Harvey, but it didn't help.
The teenager took a swing at the man, and the two got into a full-out brawl.
We don't have a record of Harvey facing any consequences for this attack,
but over time it seemed like he turned over a new leaf.
In school, he earned accolades for his writing and excelled as an athlete.
His skills in wrestling and running were impressive,
and school staff described him as having, quote, above-average strength.
To reward his latest bout of good behavior,
Barbara bought her son a sports car, a Chrysler Laser S.E.
With the confidence from his cool new car, he found a girlfriend and a group of close friends, too.
But it didn't last. Harvey went to Juvie again and again.
Though this didn't seem to hurt his social standing, his friends always looked forward to the bad boy's homecoming.
Up and down the blocks, the teens would say, Miggie's coming home.
But it wouldn't be long before they realized that his homecoming was the worst.
worst thing that could happen to the women of Allentown.
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By 1990, 15-year-old Harvey Miguel Robinson
had already proved to be a lot of trouble.
He had run-ins with the law,
and the sudden loss of his father
only accelerated Harvey's harmful behavior.
In 1991, police sent Harvey to St. Gabriel's Hall,
a juvenile placement facility for nine months.
Soon after arriving,
Harvey stole a correctional officer's wallet
and tried to escape,
reports described him as manipulative and slow to cooperate.
But soon, he caught onto the system.
He made cops think he'd reinvented himself.
The teenager earned his high school diploma while incarcerated
and convinced an officer he aspired to go to technical school and learn a trade.
Later, even the warden was willing to attest to his good behavior.
So Harvey was transferred to a facility closer to home.
There, he persuaded probationary officer Tom St.
out he was a good kid, just misunderstood. When he was released in the spring of 1992, he joined
the officer's baseball team. But within just a few weeks of being back at his mom's house,
Harvey's interest in reform waned. He quietly stopped going to the games and never bothered
with any of the job opportunities provided by probationary officers. Instead, Harvey hung out
at the basketball court, drinking and getting high with friends. Spring turned into summer and
spent the warm days relaxing at a girlfriend's pool. Harvey had done a good job portraying himself as a
socially and academically well-adjusted teenager, but it seems like it was all an act. Harvey took up
sitting on his mom's patio watching random women walking down the street. His mind wandered into darkness,
and he might have thought, which ones live alone. Harvey never disclosed exactly when he began
having thoughts of sexual sadism. But by early August 1992, he'd set his gaze on 29-year-old Joan
Mary Berghardt. Joan worked as a nurse's aide and was living alone for the first time, a first-floor
residence, just five blocks from Harvey. They'd never met, but he knew a lot about her. Half past midnight
on Wednesday, August 5th, Joan came home after dropping off a friend, and she noticed some things had changed.
A fan she normally left on was turned off.
$50 were missing from her dresser.
And scariest of all, a locked screen door had been ripped open,
just enough for someone to reach through and let themselves in.
Panicked, Joan called the police to report the break-in.
The police took the report, but there was little else they could do.
No security footage, no other evidence left behind.
Harvey had seemingly gotten.
away with it. So two nights later, he returned. This time, Joan was home. So he watched her through a dark
window. Joan sat down in her living room to enjoy a snack of milk and cookies before bed. It seemed like
her guard was down. So Harvey tore through the screen of her front window. Joan heard the noise and
jumped to her feet, but it was too late. Harvey was already right behind her. He smacked her with a weapon,
likely a metal rod, the force knocked her glasses off.
Joan stumbled into another room, half blind, stunned, and terrified.
She pounded her fists on the shared apartment wall, yelling for help.
A neighbor heard her, but Harvey turned the volume all the way up on the TV and radio.
He wanted to drown out Joan screams and make the neighbor think it was just a show.
Harvey's trick worked.
Then Harvey turned his attention back to Jones.
Joan chasing her. He attacked her with his weapon again, hitting her repeatedly and sexually assaulted her.
All told, he delivered 37 blows. Afterwards, he ejaculated on a pair of Joan's shorts.
Then he wiped down the weapon with another piece of her clothing. He left Joan on her living
room floor beaten to death. Then Harvey pushed out the screen of the rear window and walked five
blocks home.
It may seem strange that Harvey's first murders were so brutal, especially considering he was
still only a teenager.
But a study on six serial murders by adolescents might offer some insight.
The experiment observed that though these crimes were rare, these offenders all exhibited signs
of sexual sadism and preferred a hands-on method of killing.
So it's possible his youth made him more likely to perform predatory, sadistic kills,
rather than less. And I don't know if you caught the fact that Harvey had done exactly what his
own father had 30 years earlier. Both physically assaulted women and left them to die in their own living
rooms. But unlike Harvey Sr., who was arrested immediately, Harvey Jr. went on with life as usual.
The next day, he was out with friends again, seemingly unaffected. Eventually, though, people noticed
Joan was gone. After three nights of the TV at full volume, a neighbor called the police.
Authorities entered Joan's apartment and found the gruesome scene. It was clear this was a targeted
attack. While the cops acknowledged that Joan called about a break-in just days earlier, they had
no leads. Forensics collected semen samples from Jones' shorts, but within weeks, the case was cold.
emboldened, Harvey maintained his normal life, including burglary.
On September 23rd, six weeks after murdering Joan, Harvey was arrested on an unknown charge
and sentenced to a juvenile detention center.
He sat in the detention center for eight months, ruminating over his first murder and thinking
about what to do differently next time.
After all, it was only a short while before Miggy would be back home.
He turned 18 while in custody and was released on May 14, 1993, right as the Pennsylvania weather turned warm again.
Less than a month later, around 6.30 a.m. on Wednesday, June 9th, Harvey spotted 15-year-old Charlotte Schmoyer on her morning paper route.
She pushed her newspaper cart while listening to a walkman.
Since the high schooler lived nearby, it's possible Harvey had watched her for a long time, maybe even years.
years. But that morning, he wasn't content to observe. He jumped in his car and stalked Charlotte
for four blocks. As Charlotte dropped a newspaper in front of a garage, Harvey slipped out of his
car, knife in hand, he approached her. Before she could react, he restrained Charlotte,
pushing the blade against her neck. Charlotte clawed at the garage window, but there was nothing
to hold on to. In broad daylight, Harvey dragged the teen towards his car and forced her into his
vehicle. He drove her to the secluded east side reservoir. Once there, he pulled the injured girl
towards the brush. Charlotte's blood left a trail leading into the trees, where Harvey forced her
onto the ground and stabbed her repeatedly. As the young girl's life slipped away, he sexually
assaulted her. Afterwards, he covered her body with logs and brush, returned to his car,
and headed home.
Less than two hours later, the search for Charlotte Schmoyer began.
An early riser looked out their window for their newspaper.
Instead of their paper, they saw Charlotte's abandoned cart.
It was obvious something was very wrong.
Police surveyed the scene and quickly found Charlotte's Walkman
and her shoe in a nearby yard, along with smeared fingerprints on the garage.
They suspected foul play and word of the missing girl spread quickly.
The same afternoon, her body was found.
She had been so severely beaten that a shoe print was embedded into her cheek.
Because of the similarities between the crime scenes and close proximity,
detectives considered that Charlotte Schmoyer's murder was connected to Joan Berghardt's,
but still they were unable to identify any suspects.
Even though Harvey's fingerprints were in the system,
he'd worn gloves on both occasions.
DNA analysis was relatively new at the time, and results typically took weeks to develop.
Still, forensics collected pubic hairs and a sexual assault exam from Charlotte's body,
hoping for a future lead.
Meanwhile, just over a week after Charlotte's slaying, Harvey Miguel Robinson began stalking yet another victim.
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To most, Harvey Robinson was just a neighborhood teen, aimless, unemployed, spending most of his time with friends.
But between 1992 and 1993, Harvey Robinson killed Joan Berghardt and Charlotte Schmoyer,
each within blocks of his childhood home.
Less than two weeks after 15-year-old Charlotte's murder, Harvey was back on the prowl.
He noticed 37-year-old Denise Sam Calley walking home from work alone.
He followed her six blocks from his house and took note of the one-story home she lived in.
Denise headed inside, completely unaware she was being watched.
Soon after, on June 17th, Harvey made his first move.
Later that day, Denise and her husband, John, returned to find their house had been broken into.
Someone left footprints on the couch, drank their whiskey, and most chillingly, stole their collection of guns.
They reported the break-in, purchased more weapons, and tried to move on.
Denise began target practice with her new firearm, but she still didn't feel safe.
Unlike Joan or Charlotte, Denise was married and lived with her husband.
It's possible that Harvey realized he'd have to be more careful if he wanted to get away with her murder.
Whatever the motive, Harvey turned his attention to another local woman.
He followed her home on June 20, 1993, just three days after breaking into Denise's house.
It was a warm night, so the house's windows were open for a breeze.
Wearing rubber gloves, Harvey removed the screen and entered through an open, front-facing window.
When he reached the woman's bedroom, he discovered her boyfriend was asleep in bed with her.
But instead of leaving, he slinked down the hall where the woman's five-year-old daughter lay asleep.
Harvey attacked her.
On his way out of the house, he swiped $6.
and a pair of sunglasses from the coffee table and snuck back through the front window.
He left his five-year-old victim in the laundry room.
Miraculously, the child survived.
She alerted her mother who immediately called the authorities.
With news of yet another assault, Allentown residents suspected the assailant lived among them.
Everyone feared that it was just a matter of time before the next attack, especially Denise.
On the evening of June 28th, Denise curled up in bed alone, her husband away on a business trip.
Since the break-in 11 days before, she'd had trouble sleeping, the image of the thief returning
nodded her.
Which wasn't uncommon.
Stalkers take a heavy toll on their targets' mind.
In one Australian survey, researchers found that stalking victims suffer nightmares,
appetite disturbances, and depressed moods.
Many are racked with anxiety and nearly one-fourth experienced suicidal ruminations.
So it's no wonder Denise wasn't able to rest peacefully.
She finally fell asleep a little past midnight.
However, she was awakened by a noise outside the bedroom door.
It was nearly 5 a.m., but Denise convinced herself she'd be better off at the neighbors for the rest of the night.
Gripped with terror, she willed herself out of bed.
However, as she tiptoed down the dark hallway, a closet door opened and a dark figure charged at Denise.
He swung a knife at her, missing by a hair.
Denise ran out of the front door with Harvey close behind.
He caught up and pinned her down onto the front lawn.
Denise managed to bite his arm hard, but Harvey beat, strangled, and sexually assaulted her, all in her own front yard.
As Denise slipped into unconsciousness, a neighbor shined a floodlight onto the scene.
Spooked, Harvey leapt up and ran towards the house, escaping through the back door.
Denise crawled to safety and called 911.
She was able to give the police a description of the perpetrator, around 5-7, white, clean-shaven, muscular, and young.
The description was their biggest lead yet, but it was still only a lead.
Though Denise survived Harvey's attack, her anxiety shot through the roof.
The nightmares she'd experienced after the first break-in had now turned into a terrifying reality,
one that could happen again any night.
Unfortunately, this kind of repeated traumatization of victims of stalking is common.
In the same survey we mentioned earlier, about a third of stalking targets were eventually
physically or sexually assaulted, and nearly all decided to make major,
changes to their residence or work afterward. Denise was no different. After the horrific attack,
she opted to stay at a relative's house while she and John figured out what to do. Meanwhile,
18-year-old Harvey set his sights on a new target. On July 14th, two weeks after attacking Denise,
Harvey watched 47-year-old Jessica Jean Fortney enter her two-story home. The loud whir of fans drowned out
any noise. After watching her, Harvey decided the middle-aged woman was a suitable target and returned
later that evening. Taking advantage of the stifling heat like he had before, Harvey pried off the
screen blocking an open window and crept inside. Jessica was sleeping downstairs on the sofa,
likely so that her daughter, son-in-law, and granddaughter could sleep in the beds upstairs. Before
Jessica even woke up, Harvey hit her repeatedly with a blunt object.
sexually assaulted her, then strangled her.
He then covered her body with a blanket
and left her to be discovered by her family.
Once again, the crime scene resembled his fathers from decades earlier,
a woman beaten to death in her own living room.
But there was one major difference.
This time, there was a witness.
Jessica's granddaughter watched from her bed in the next room,
frozen in shock.
Unknown to Harvey, the child's door was open,
and she had a view of the entire attack.
The brave child provided a description of her grandmother's attacker,
which resembled Denise's description of her attacker.
With this, police confirmed the fear that a serial killer was prowling the neighborhood.
They needed to act quickly before he struck again.
Denise, too, was convinced her rapist would be back.
Still, on July 18th, less than a month after she was attacked, she returned to her home and
normal life. It's not clear if Harvey knew Denise had returned home or was just keeping an eye on her
house, but that same night, he told his friends he'd catch up with them later and slinked away.
In his car, he secured one of the guns he'd stolen from Denise's home and drove the short distance
to her house. From their bedroom, John and Denise heard rustling at the back door,
then glass shattering, followed by the alarm system going off.
They drew their guns and dashed out to confront him, but the intruder had run away,
this time taking more of the couple's belongings, including another gun left on a side table.
Denise's attacker had now broken into her house three times,
tormenting Denise with the fear he would never stop.
Denise wanted to take back the agency over her own life,
so she decided to work with authorities to help kill.
catch her attacker. The city's district attorney believed the serial killer would return again,
so officers were assigned to patrol the homes of both survivors, Denise and the five-year-old girl.
But this sting operation was only approved for two weeks. Afterwards, the victims would once again
be left on their own. Twelve days into the assignment, rookie patrol officer Brian Lewis flipped
through a magazine inside Denise's house. There were just two.
nights left and no sign of Harvey. Denise and John slept down the hall. The doors were all secured,
but two windows had purposely been left open and a soft light in the living room left on.
Sometime past 1 a.m., the officer heard a noise. Someone was trying to open the locked back door.
When it didn't budge, the person moved to the front window. Officer Lewis hid behind the sofa,
aiming his gun at the two gloved hands, pulling on the screen.
As soon as Harvey Robinson slipped into the dimly lit room, the patrolman ordered him to freeze.
Instead, Harvey dove into the dark kitchen.
The officer shot and missed.
From the shadows, the teenager fired back.
A shootout erupted.
Denise and John huddled in their bedroom, pointing their guns at the door,
listening to the gunfire outside.
When the officer reloaded, Harvey took his chair.
With the backdoor deadbolted, he broke through a small pane of glass and shoved himself out the window.
Outside, everything was quiet again.
No sirens closing in.
Backup had failed to arrive.
Harvey hobbled over to his car and sped away.
When he got home, he threw his bloody clothes into the laundry, hid the gun, and examined his injuries.
Glass and debris had cut him up pretty bad, but he did little to stay.
staunch the blood before heading out again to meet up with his girlfriend. She was immediately
alarmed. She pleaded with Harvey to seek emergency care, but he knew police were looking for him.
Meanwhile, back at the crime scene, police issued a notice to all local hospitals to be on the lookout
for a male with serious injuries to his arms and legs. They included the witness description.
As the clock neared 3.30 in the morning, authorities lost hope the killer would seek medical
attention. Too much time had passed. But then they got a call from Lehigh Valley Hospital. Harvey had gone to a
medical center on the west end of town, expecting police wouldn't look there. However, he was wrong.
He realized he'd walked into a trap. So as soon as he was left in an exam room alone, he snuck out.
He hightailed it to the parking lot where authorities were waiting. They arrested him on the spot,
Bleeding and unarmed, Harvey didn't resist.
The Allentown nightmare had come to an end.
In October 1993, Harvey Miguel Robinson was charged with breaking and entering,
aggravated assault and attempted homicide in the Sam Calley case.
At his residence, investigators recovered the gun that belonged to Denise Sam Calley,
shoes that matched the footprint left on Charlotte Schmoyer's body and bloodied clothes.
Soon after Harvey turned 19 that December, forensics returned a match for DNA evidence found at three of the crime scenes,
including semen left on Joan Berghardt and pubic hair found on Charlotte Schmoyer.
On February 8, 1994, with the DNA results in hand, prosecutors officially charged Harvey with three counts of homicide.
Finally, the families of Charlotte Schmoyer, Joan Berghardt and Jessica Forteastern,
Courtney had the answers they'd been looking for. In custody, a psychiatrist diagnosed Harvey with
antisocial personality disorder and substance abuse disorder, but the diagnosis did little to help
the young serial killer. On February 28, Harvey pled guilty to charges relating to Denise Sam Calley's
case, including burglary and attempted homicide. The jury sentenced him to 40 to 80 years for these crimes,
but there was still the matter of the three homicides and the assault against the five-year-old girl.
Harvey's trial opened on October 10, 1994.
He never took the stand, despite his attorney's pleas for him to do so.
Still, the forensic and eyewitness evidence against him was indisputable.
On November 8, 1994, the jury found Harvey Miguel Robinson guilty of three murders in the first degree.
He received the death penalty thrice over.
He remained expressionless even as his fate was read out to the courtroom.
As he was escorted out of court, his mother and sister wept,
while his victim's family members breathed a sigh of relief.
Knowing her attacker would never again walk free,
Denise Sam Cali finally found peace again.
Six months after his death sentence was read,
Harvey was found guilty of rape and attempted murder in the 1993 attack on the five-year-old girl.
57 years were added to his sentence.
For 12 years, Harvey waited on death row, but in 2006, a new law ruled minors couldn't be given the death penalty.
Since he'd killed Joan when he was 17, that death sentence for her murder was commuted to life in prison.
but he still faces the death penalty for the other two murders.
Harvey has never apologized to the families of his victims,
nor given any insight into why he killed.
Instead, Harvey spent his time filing motions to negate the remaining death sentences.
Perhaps he hoped to trick his way to freedom,
the way he'd done as a teenager in Juvie.
But the cocky teen wasn't as smart as he thought he was.
As of 2023, he remains on death.
Rowe, still hoping for the mercy he never showed his victims.
Thanks again for tuning in to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast.
As you might have noticed, we've made some changes to bring a fresh perspective to the show,
and there will be more coming.
I want to take a moment to acknowledge my longtime co-host, Greg Poulson, who will no longer
be joining me.
I'm truly grateful for his invaluable contributions over the years.
Together, we built an extensive library of episodes for you.
to enjoy anytime, anywhere.
Finally, you may not know this, but serial killers is a collaborative effort with a dedicated
team of researchers and writers who tirelessly craft compelling stories for you every week.
Moving forward, you can expect to hear from our talented staff as they move from behind
the scenes and join the show.
I hope you're as excited as we are for this thrilling new chapter.
Stay tuned for more updates, and thank you for your continued support.
For more information on Harvey Miguel Robinson, amongst the many sources we used, we found
The Devil's Dozen by Catherine Ramsland and reporting from the Morning Call extremely helpful to our research.
Stay safe out there.
Serial Killers is a Spotify podcast.
This episode was written by Maria Felix Oviedo, edited by Ben Carrow, Kate Murdoch and Maggie
Admiere, researched by Sapphire Williams and Chelsea Wood, fact-checked by Chelsea Wood,
and sound design by Alex Button.
Our head of programming is Julian Borrow.
Our head of production is Nick Johnson.
And Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor.
I'm your host, Vanessa Richardson.
A beloved 75-year-old man washing up, getting ready for bed,
is brutally beaten and killed.
Despite an exhaustive investigation,
the killer avoids arrest and then strikes again.
I'm Global News crime reporter Nancy Hicks.
You might listen to a lot of,
lot of true crime podcasts this year, but they're not crime beat. Search for and follow the award-winning
podcast Crime Beat on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.
Do you want to hear something spooky? Some monster, it reminded me of Bigfoot. Monsters Among
Us is a weekly podcast featuring true stories of the paranormal. One of the boys started to
exhibit demonic possession. Stories straight from the witnesses' mouths themselves.
Something very snakelight
lifted its head out of the water.
Hosted by me, your guide.
Derek Hayes.
Somehow I lost eight whole hours.
Listen now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
