Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - “Jazzi Jet” Joseph Edward Duncan Pt. 1

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

A teenage sex offender carried out horrific crimes against young boys in Washington in the late 1970s before being sent to a treatment program, followed by prison. Fourteen years later, Joseph Edward ...Duncan III was paroled, free to carry out a murder spree that claimed the lives of three kids.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of drug use, murder, child murder, child sexual abuse, rape, and assault. We advise extreme caution for children under 13. On a Friday afternoon in April 1997, Ernesto Medina shuffled around the house, tidying up ahead of the weekend. Meanwhile, his stepson, 10-year-old Anthony and 6-year-old son Marcos, were playing with some friends behind their apartment complex. Ernesto's family had lived in Beaumont, California, for years and knew most of their neighbors. And while it was a generally safe area, Ernesto was comforted by the distant sound of his
Starting point is 00:00:51 boy's laughter as it drifted through the screen door. Or at least, he had been comforted by it. It had been a few minutes since he had last heard a peep out of his kids. Things had gone quiet. Too quiet. A little worried, Ernesto stopped what he was doing and headed towards the front door to check on Anthony and Marcos. That's when an ear-splitting scream ripped through the silence. Recognizing Anthony's cry, Ernesto was struck by a sickening jolt of adrenaline.
Starting point is 00:01:23 He sprinted outside and saw Marcos hobbling towards him. The six-year-old was covered in dirt and missing a shoe. He looked like he'd been beaten, badly. and Anthony was nowhere to be seen. Hi, I'm Greg Poulson. This is Serial Killers, a Spotify original from Parcast. Every episode, we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. Today, we're exploring the crimes of Joseph Edward Duncan.
Starting point is 00:01:59 I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Richardson. Hi, everyone. You can find episodes of serial killers and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free on Spotify. Today, we'll discuss Duncan's alleged. abusive upbringing and examine his transformation from prey to predator. We'll explore his vicious crime spree that started at age 12 and track his descent into murder after 14 years behind bars. In the next episode, we'll dive into Duncan's doomed attempt at a fresh start and the horrific mass murder kidnapping that finally led to his arrest. We've got all that and more coming
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Starting point is 00:04:34 This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Writing can be a powerful tool for creativity and self-expression. It can also serve as a platform to record our most precious memories.
Starting point is 00:05:19 For many people, flipping back through old journal entries offers a chance to reflect on the past and be thankful for the present. But for others, it's an opportunity to relive their most evil acts. This story is about one of those people. Joseph Edward Duncan used poetry and prose to document his murder spree in graphic detail and never demonstrated a shred of remorse for his actions. He spent most of his adult life trying to conceal these awful crimes from those around him. While he was writing, though, he could let his darkness reign free. According to Duncan himself, that darkness arrived in his life early.
Starting point is 00:06:01 Born in February of 1963 in Tacoma, Washington, he was allegedly abused by his mother, Lillian, from an early age. If the abuse did occur, it's unclear how Duncan's father, responded to it, or if he was aware of it at all. But one other person in the house made allegations about Lillian. Duncan's older sister, Sherry, described their mother as a mentally unstable woman who regularly beat her five children. According to Sherry, young Duncan quickly learned that fighting back would only make the thrashings worse. Interestingly, Duncan's brother, Bruce, paints a very different picture. He denies that any abuse took place. Bruce's version of a
Starting point is 00:06:42 events differ so wildly from Sherry's that it's hard to untangle what really happened. However, Duncan's account backs up Sherry's story. What's more, he claims that his mother didn't just physically assault him. In court testimony, he said that she sexually abused him, starting from when he was just eight. If this is true, it almost certainly had a profound impact on his development and emerging worldview. Vanessa is going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note, Vanessa's not a licensed psychologist or a psychiatrist, but we have done a lot of research for this show. Thanks, Greg. It's possible that as a child, Duncan developed a sense of learned helplessness as a conditioned response to his mother's alleged
Starting point is 00:07:27 abuse. Learned helplessness occurs when a person loses their ability to respond to challenges because they believe nothing they do will make a difference. When we consider Sherry's court testimony, where she claimed that Duncan's stopped fighting back against his mother, this possibility becomes even more likely. That said, everyone has their breaking point. But eventually, after years of apparently feeling utterly powerless at home, Duncan reached his limit. Whether because of the alleged abuse or for some other reason, he had an excess of pent-up frustration that he needed to take out on someone. So he started to look for his own prey.
Starting point is 00:08:07 And soon, he found the perfect target. someone who didn't stand a chance against him. According to Duncan, when he was 12, he sexually assaulted a five-year-old boy. It seems he managed to conceal his actions because the incident was never reported. However, his horrific attempt at regaining some semblance of control didn't affect his home life. Three years later, in 1979, Duncan's parents separated after two decades of marriage. Their bitter divorce only fueled Duncan's... sense of alienation. It was around this time that he started using drugs, and it's possible that
Starting point is 00:08:44 his ongoing family chaos fueled that desire. Now a sophomore in high school, he started using marijuana, LSD, and PCP. The latter has been linked to hostile behavior and might have been what spurred him even further into violence. That year, he carried out another attack on a defenseless child. He held a nine-year-old boy at gunpoint and sexually assaulted. at him. Once again, this attack seemingly went unreported, but already the teenager was getting sloppy. Right around this time, Duncan was arrested for stealing a car while high on drugs. He was sentenced as a juvenile and carted off to Disland's Boys Ranch, a local treatment
Starting point is 00:09:28 facility for young offenders. For a brief moment, it appeared that Duncan might put an end to his dangerous behavior. After several months of the ranch, his counselors determined that he'd made enough problems just satisfy the terms of his sentence. So by the start of 1980, Duncan was back living at home with his mother and one younger sister. It wasn't ideal. Duncan was probably still scared of his mom after years of abuse, but he seemed motivated to create a better life for himself. In fact, he hoped to join the Air Force after graduating from high school.
Starting point is 00:10:01 However, those plans were derailed by his previous auto theft conviction. The Air Force wouldn't accept him with the criminal record and just like that his one dream of success evaporated into thin air. That winter Duncan probably felt like he had no future ahead of him. At this point, all he really had was the desire to get revenge on a world that had left him empty-handed. The counselors at the facility had been wrong. Duncan wasn't reformed, not even close. At the night of January 24th, he set out, fueled by a vague but intense desire to do harm.
Starting point is 00:10:42 He headed to his neighbor's house knowing that no one was home. Once he got there, he smashed open a storm window and broke into a bedroom. Inside, he stole four pistols, about 1,000 rounds of ammunition, and a pile of pornographic magazines. Back on the street, Duncan surveyed his hall, but still felt restless. Stealing had never really been enough for him. He'd already learned that taking advantage of defense-listing, boys made him feel powerful. So he stopped by his house to stash the stolen goods, save for one pistol, and went in search of a victim. Duncan knew where to look, and it didn't take him long
Starting point is 00:11:23 to find a target. Soon he came across a lone 14-year-old standing in front of a nearby school. Like most of his early victims, we don't know this boy's name, so we'll call him Mark. Duncan approached the helpless teenager, pulled out his stolen gun, and led him to a nearby stretch of woods. When they were hidden amongst the trees, Duncan forced Mark to strip down, then he beat and sexually assaulted him. Afterward, Duncan let him go and calmly walked home. By the time he got back, the police were already waiting. It's not clear whether someone called the cops because of the burglary or because Mark had reported. him. Either way, Duncan didn't seem interested in trying to conceal his crimes.
Starting point is 00:12:11 He was arrested that night and quickly confessed to first-degree rape. At trial, 17-year-old Duncan was found guilty and sentenced to a maximum of 20 years in prison. Since this was his first documented violent crime, the judge had no reason to believe Duncan's actions were part of a larger pattern. Rather than put him behind bars, he opted to send the teenager to a sex offender treatment program, about 10 miles west of Tacoma. There, Duncan spoke to a series of psychologists. He detailed his long history of sexual abuse at the hands of his mother. He also told them about three other boys he'd sexually assaulted.
Starting point is 00:12:53 The doctors he spoke to were shocked. By this point, they couldn't do anything about Duncan's past crimes, but they could treat his underlying trauma, or at least diagnose him. They noted that he was preoccupied with deviant sexual fantasies and concluded that he met the definition of a sexual psychopath. Though it's not a diagnosis included in the DSM-5, psychopathy typically refers to a person who's impulsive, lacks empathy for others, and often has a callous disregard for the people they harm. Sexual psychopathy is now an outdated term, but previously referred to a psychopathic offender who commits mainly sexual crimes. Since Duncan never demonstrated any remorse for his
Starting point is 00:13:37 crimes and largely viewed his victims as a means to an end, this definition seems apt. Although medical professionals know about the many traits associated with psychopathy, far less is known about how to effectively treat the condition. Given this, perhaps it isn't surprising that Duncan made little progress in the program at Western State. By 1982, it seems his therapists had more or less given up on him. Duncan had given up on himself, too. He made it clear that he had no interest in working through his issues, and an incident that February was the final straw.
Starting point is 00:14:18 Up next, Duncan faces new demons. The world is full of conmen, fantasists, and corrupt authority figures. There are respected spirituals. leaders who ask way too much of their followers, global companies with unexpected motives, and governments that value profit over all else. Luckily for us, the world is also full of people who stand up for what they believe in, even if it turns their lives upside down. I'm Pat Rodriguez, host of whistleblowers, the new Pardcast series that explores the biggest,
Starting point is 00:14:57 most bizarre lies in history. through the eyes of those who risked absolutely everything to expose them. This season in Whistleblowers, join us as we uncover the story of the women who brought down Hollywood's most controversial yoga guru. The doctors who believe one of the world's top surgeons used humans as as guinea pigs, and the woman who revealed Facebook's darkest secrets. Whistleblowers is a Spotify original from Parcast. airing episodes every Tuesday starting January 18th. Follow and listen to whistleblowers for free on Spotify.
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Starting point is 00:16:20 In February of 1982, 18-year-old Joseph Edward Duncan was supposed to be working on changing his devious ways. After sexually assaulting a 14-year-old boy, he'd been placed in a sex offender treatment program. The thing was, he didn't have any interest in actually reforming him. himself. So when his mother came to visit him that Valentine's Day, he decided to have some fun.
Starting point is 00:16:45 During her visit, she and Duncan stayed at a guest cottage on hospital grounds. Though he later alleged that his mother abused him physically and sexually, the nature of their relationship at this stage in his life is unclear. But in any case, once she fell asleep, Duncan saw his chance to escape, at least for a little bit. Duncan reportedly jumped the hospital wall and ran to a nearby residential street. There, he spied on several unsuspecting people inside their homes, including an 18-year-old woman. His victims were eventually alerted to Duncan's presence
Starting point is 00:17:22 when a nearby guard dog started to bark. Startled, he fled back to the cottage and woke up his mother. We don't know what came of this incident, but a week later, just before his 19th birthday, Duncan told his doctors that he wanted to leave the program. He said he'd rather go to jail, and the hospital staff were only too happy to oblige his request. In their last report, the team wrote that Duncan made no effort to modify his sexually deviant behaviors. They also noted that he'd been resistant to working with them and openly rebellious during his treatments.
Starting point is 00:17:59 It seemed to them that he had no hope for recovery. So Duncan got his wish and was removed from the program. He was transported back to his hometown of Tacoma sometime that March and sent to prison to begin his 20-year sentence. Little did he know he'd soon come to regret his decision. Although Duncan had already spent several years in federal institutions, it seems he wasn't prepared for the reality of state prison. When he arrived at the Tacoma facility, all eyes were on him. Despite the severity of his crimes, Duncan wasn't a big guy. According to his brother Bruce, he only weighed 100 pounds soaking wet.
Starting point is 00:18:42 With his small frame and bad attitude, Duncan quickly became a target for his fellow prisoners. According to Duncan, he was sexually assaulted on several occasions. Duncan's experience isn't uncommon for survivors of childhood sexual assault, which he purported to be. According to a 2002 article in violence and victims, both male and female survivors were more likely to be re-victimized as adults, than other individuals. What's more, sexual abuse is all too common in prison populations. A study published in the Journal of Correctional Health Care in 2009 found that as many as 5% of male inmates were sexually assaulted by their peers.
Starting point is 00:19:24 However, the real number is likely much higher. As noted by Christine Levon Miller in Justice Quarterly, male prisoners often choose not to report their assaults. The reasons for this vary, but the most common ones cited by study participants were embarrassment and fear of retaliation from the perpetrator. While Duncan never publicly spoke about how being sexually assaulted as an adult affected him, it's likely that the experience had a profound impact on his mental state. The other details about his time behind bars are minimal, but we can assume that he mostly
Starting point is 00:19:58 steered clear of trouble. We can guess he was on his best behavior because Duncan was paroled in September of 1994 after serving 14 years of his sentence. Now 31, he'd spent over half of his life in prison. That fall, he arrived at a halfway house in Seattle and attempted to build an adult existence for the first time ever. Not much is known about the next few years, but it seems that Duncan made a real attempt at starting fresh. As per the terms of his parole, he registered as a sex offender
Starting point is 00:20:32 and attended regular therapy sessions. Eventually, he found a job as a telemarketer and moved into an apartment with a roommate. The following year, he got a new job at a library in downtown Seattle. There, he met a young woman named Siddiqua Ellis. She went by Dee. At some point, the two started dating. We don't know much about their relationship,
Starting point is 00:20:53 and it's unclear if she knew about his criminal history. But even if he was able to maintain a facade of normalcy, Duncan couldn't ignore his past forever. Although he'd managed to find work and a girlfriend, his status as a sex offender almost certainly made it hard for him to build a real career, a real life. By the summer of 1996, something seemed to trigger a slow and steady decline.
Starting point is 00:21:19 Duncan stopped attending therapy and started smoking marijuana. Before long, his violent impulses resurfaced, and they were raring for revenge. Duncan wanted to get back at the world he felt had taken so much from him. There was one issue, though. He couldn't risk getting caught
Starting point is 00:21:38 and being thrown back in jail. This time, he'd have to silence his victims before they could rat him out. As the summer heated up, so did his anger. And on Saturday, July 6th, he reached a boiling point. That night, Duncan was at Dee's apartment in North Seattle.
Starting point is 00:21:58 When she left for work, he quietly slipped outside. With the crowbar tucked into the pocket of his jeans, he walked towards nearby Aurora Avenue. At the time, Aurora and he was a little Aurora Avenue. Avenue was rife with crime, rampant drug use, and sex work. Most local residents avoided the area at all costs, but all Duncan saw were endless possibilities. As he wandered around, his gaze fell on two young girls. 11-year-old Sammy Joe White and 9-year-old Carmen Joy Kobius had just moved into a motel on the strip.
Starting point is 00:22:33 Their family had been experiencing homelessness, but thanks to funding from a charity, they had a place to stay. They were relieved to finally have a roof over their heads, but food was still scarce. That night, Sammy Joe and Carmen's mother, Margaret, had left the room to get them dinner. She'd been gone a long time, though, and the girls were hungry. So, a little before 11 p.m., they took matters into their own hands. Despite their young age, they were savvy and independent, and used a panhandling. They decided to stop by a local restaurant to see if they could scrounge up some donations. but as they waited to cross the street, Duncan honed in on them.
Starting point is 00:23:14 He approached the girls and said he was looking for his lost cat. Apparently he was worried that it had wandered into the nearby forest. He made them an offer. If they helped him search for the cat, he'd give them some money. They agreed and followed Duncan into the wooded area. Once they were off the street, Duncan glanced around in the darkness and checked that they were alone. When he was sure the coast was clear, he pulled the crowbar out of his jacket and hit both girls hard in the head.
Starting point is 00:23:45 Sammy Joe and Carmen collapsed to the ground. He leaned in close to check. No pulse. They were dead. He felt pure vindication. In Duncan's twisted mind, killing two innocent children was the perfect payback for being sent to prison when he was barely an adult himself. However, he couldn't celebrate just yet. The next part of his plan needed to go off without a hitch. It's unclear how he smuggled the girls' bodies out of the woods undetected,
Starting point is 00:24:18 but somehow he got them into his car and drove about 10 miles east. When he got to the small city of Bothel, he pulled up to an abandoned farmhouse and dumped their bodies inside. Afterwards, he drove back to Seattle. While Duncan relished in the dark afterglow of his latest crime, Sammy Joe and Carmen's mother, Margaret, arrived back at the motel room. Her daughters were self-reliant and often went off alone, so she didn't immediately worry. But when they hadn't returned later that night, she and her son went out to search for them.
Starting point is 00:24:54 Unfortunately, their efforts were in vain. The girls were nowhere to be found, so Margaret called the police to report them missing. While authorities looked for Sammy Joe and Carmen, she passed out photo flyers around the neighborhood. Soon, hordes of local residents had volunteered to help Margaret's search for them. One such volunteer was Joseph Ruan. Ruan also happened to be Duncan's roommate at the time. Although he had no idea that he was living with Sammy Joe and Carmen's killer, he did notice that their disappearance struck a chord with Duncan.
Starting point is 00:25:30 Later that summer, Ruan was watching a news report about the case. When the girl's pictures appeared on the screen, Duncan compared the men. to sex workers and said that they looked like they belonged to a gang. Ruan was unnerved. It was a disturbing way to speak about any missing person, but these girls were nine and eleven years old. It was totally uncalled for. Clearly, Duncan had no qualms about sexualizing children, but by referring to Sammy Joe and Carmen in these demeaning terms, he was also rationalizing his own crime. Rationalization is a psychological defense mechanism used to justify unacceptable behavior through seemingly logical explanations.
Starting point is 00:26:13 In making this comment, Duncan seemed to imply that maybe the girls had deserved to die. Despite the disturbing outburst, Ruon had no reason to suspect his roommate of being a killer. But soon enough, Duncan was back behind bars anyway. Three months after he killed Sammy Joe and Carmen, Duncan was arrested and charged over marijuana use and an illegally owned gun. He spent one month in jail and was released on parole. Despite the short sentence, Duncan was enraged. He'd vowed not to get caught again. He'd even gone out of his way to get rid of Sammy Joe and Carmen.
Starting point is 00:26:51 In his mind, he tried to turn over a new leaf, though he seemed to disregard the brutal murders he'd committed while doing so. He'd gotten a job and made a life for himself, and it still wasn't enough. Once again, he'd been slapped down. Duncan cast himself as the victim. He couldn't seem to acknowledge that his own choices were to blame. And anyway, he didn't care. He was done trying to play catch-up.
Starting point is 00:27:17 By March of 1997, 34-year-old Duncan stopped reporting to his parole officer and abruptly quit his job. Then one day, while Dee was at work, he stole her car. Duncan didn't know where he was going just yet, but he'd be sure to leave his mark behind. in the most horrifying way possible. Up next, Joseph Edward Duncan goes on the lamb. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued,
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Starting point is 00:29:38 lifestyle may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. Now back to the story. In March of 1997, 34-year-old Joseph Edward Duncan was on the run. After making a half-hearted attempt to reform himself, he slid back into a life of crime. By this point, he wasn't really interested in a fresh start, but he was ready for a change of scenery. He'd spent half his life behind bars, and all of it in the state of Washington. So after leaving Seattle, he headed south on I-5 in his girlfriend D's car. He didn't have a precise destination in mind. Maybe Mexico, he mused.
Starting point is 00:30:26 Once he was out on the open road, though, Duncan's thoughts darkened. With nothing to distract him, he began ruminating on his past. He was still furious about being locked up and lamented the life he'd left behind. As he drove further, his anger intensified. cresting into an unstoppable wave. He needed to let off some steam. On April 4th, Duncan arrived in Beaumont, California. Not far from the San Bernardino National Forest. On a quiet residential street, he spotted a group of boys playing outside. Among them was 10-year-old Anthony Martinez. Anthony and his six-year-old brother Marcos lived just down the block. That day, they'd gone over to their friend's house after school. While the boys were absorbed in a game in the backyard, Duncan quietly pulled up to the alleyway beside the yard.
Starting point is 00:31:19 After a moment, the group noticed him. Duncan got out of the car and walked towards them, beckoning the boys forward. He held up a picture of a cat and explained that he'd lost the animal somewhere in the neighborhood. Then he offered them each a dollar to help him look for it. The kids were happy to help and combed through the nearby streets and alleyways in search of the non-existent cat. Eventually they returned to Duncan empty-handed. He sighed and thanked them for trying, then gave them each a dollar for their trouble.
Starting point is 00:31:52 But he wasn't done with them yet. Suddenly, he pulled out a knife and tried to grab Marcos. The boy fell to the ground and struggled out of his grasp. Anthony jumped to his little brother's defense and stood in Duncan's way. Without missing a beat, Duncan grabbed Anthony around the throat and dragged him away at knife point. Then he bundled the 10-year-old into the car, jumped into the driver's seat, and sped away.
Starting point is 00:32:19 Horrified, the other boys screamed out for help. Anthony and Marcos' father, Ernesto, heard the commotion from down the street and ran outside to see what was wrong. That's when he saw Marcos. As his younger son limped towards him, a chill went down Ernesto's spine. Marcos was only wearing one shoe and was covered in dirt, as if he'd been thrown to the ground.
Starting point is 00:32:44 In a panicked voice, he told his father that a man had Anthony. Ernesto sped into action. He called 911 to alert the authorities, then got into his car and tried to catch up to Duncan. But he was too far gone. As Ernesto gave chase, Duncan headed east for 50 miles before finally stopping in Burdue Canyon, on the outskirts of Joshua Tree National Park.
Starting point is 00:33:09 There he sexually assaulted Anthony. When he was finished, he struck Anthony in the head with a heavy rock and left him there to die. After that, he hopped back into the car and continued south to Mexico. As Duncan drove onwards, he reflected on Anthony's murder. In a fit of sick inspiration, he decided that he wanted to record his memory of the killing. The next day, he composed a poem entitled, An Ode to the Killer, and penned a journal entry to commemorate his actions. his actions. In it, he described as euphoria after the killing and his total lack of remorse for
Starting point is 00:33:48 the victim. There isn't much research available about why some serial killers feel compelled to log their crimes, but there is a documented link between killers who record their actions and sexual sadism. According to the DSM-5, sexual sadism is a paraphylic disorder in which someone is aroused by the physical or mental suffering of another person. It follows that a killer who writes down their crimes may find pleasure in reading the account back to themselves at a later date. Professor of Forensic Psychology Catherine Ramsland notes that this behavior might have something to do with the desire to relive their worst acts. Duncan himself never offered a precise explanation for why he began to record his murders, but it soon became one of
Starting point is 00:34:35 his favorite hobbies. Whatever is reasoning, Duncan's deep musings seem to have awakened a sense of nostalgia. The day after his first entry, he called his roommate Joseph Ruan in Seattle. He asked why D. wasn't picking up his calls. Ruan said that she was angry with him for taking the car, then asked where he'd run off to. Duncan lied and said that he was in L.A. that he planned to go to Disneyland. In fact, Duncan reached Mexico later that day. From this point on, his movements became fuzzy, so we'll piece together his journey as best we can.
Starting point is 00:35:11 As Duncan made his escape, Anthony's family waited with bated breath. It was two agonizing weeks before they heard anything, and it wasn't the news they'd hoped for. A Burdue Canyon park ranger found Anthony's body. It's unclear whether authorities collected or analyzed any DNA evidence from the scene, but it seems the investigation didn't go far. In any case, Joseph Duncan wasn't on the police's radar at all. He'd gotten away Scott-free. And after laying low in Mexico for a while, he felt bold enough to return to the U.S.,
Starting point is 00:35:50 so he hit the road and headed back towards California. For some reason, though, he decided to stop in San Francisco. There isn't much information available about his time there, but we know he met a new acquaintance, a pediatrician from North Dakota named Richard. Given that the doctor was visiting from his hometown of Fargo, it's not entirely clear how the two men crossed paths. Richard had told the parole board that they met at a coffee house in San Francisco.
Starting point is 00:36:18 Duncan's stint in San Francisco was coming to a close. He'd violated his parole months ago and knew it was only a matter of time before the authorities caught up with him. So at some point that summer, he fled to Kansas City, Missouri to stay with one of his sisters. Evidently, it wasn't a great place to hide.
Starting point is 00:36:37 In August of 1997, the FBI showed up at her door. As agents slapped handcuffs around his wrists and steered Duncan into the patrol car, they had no clue they'd just arrested a serial killer. As far as they were concerned, Duncan was just a parolee who'd skipped town. Working under that assumption, they sent him back to Washington to serve out another minor sentence. Duncan was despondent to be back in a prison cell, but this time, at least he had an ally. He and the doctor had stayed in touch over the past few months. When Duncan told his new friend about where he was, Richard was sympathetic.
Starting point is 00:37:19 Of course, Duncan didn't mention the part about murdering three children. To Richard, Duncan probably seemed like a good guy who was down on his luck. The charade worked, and Richard started flying out from Fargo to visit Duncan in prison. Prior to Duncan's parole hearing in December, Richard wrote the parole board, advocating for Duncan's release. In a surprising display of generosity, Richard even offered for Duncan to come live with his family. However, the board rejected his proposal, citing the risk to Richard's children. To many, it seemed bizarre that the doctor seemed unconcerned about putting his kids
Starting point is 00:37:58 in harm's way. Perhaps Duncan had downplayed his pederastic crimes or convinced his friend that he'd been unjustly convicted. Either way, though, Duncan remained in his prison and unbeknownst to him a few miles away in Seattle evidence of his crimes was finally beginning to surface on February 10th 1998 a homeless man took shelter in an abandoned barn in baffle that's where he found the bodies of Sammy Joe White and Carmen Joy Kubius an autopsy found that the girls had likely been killed soon after their disappearance two years earlier but there wasn't any evidence to suggest who was responsible. Although Duncan wasn't linked to their murder quite yet, he was raising red flags in jail. Psychologist Savio Chan interviewed Duncan two years into a
Starting point is 00:38:50 sentence. To ascertain how likely he'd be to re-offend, he found that Duncan was very likely to do so. In fact, he predicted that if he was released, he'd probably commit another crime within the next six years. Other psychological reports painted a similarly grim picture. They noted that Duncan had gradually spiraled out of control since his 1994 release and his latest arrest in 1997. One of the assessments noted that Duncan's distorted thinking made it impossible to effectively treat him. While distorted thinking isn't a clinical term, cognitive distortions describe irrational beliefs
Starting point is 00:39:30 that alter a person's perception of reality. In Duncan's case, it seems that his warped thoughts allowed him to feel better. about himself and his crimes. We saw this earlier when he rationalized killing Sammy, Joe, and Carmen by calling them demeaning names. Despite these ominous reports, Richard still believed that Duncan was worth fighting for. In a show of support, he hired an attorney to petition for his friend's release. Unfortunately, it worked. A year later in July of 2000, Duncan was a free man. Duncan flew out to Richard's hometown of Fargo. There, more than a thousand miles from his hometown, Duncan was ready to start over.
Starting point is 00:40:15 Again. With Richard in this corner, he felt full of hope for the future. But the urge to kill was still within him, simmering beneath the surface. No matter how determined he was to leave his past behind, his demons would follow him. And before long, just as the people, prison psychologist predicted he'd strike again. Thanks again for tuning into serial killers. We'll be back soon with part two of the story.
Starting point is 00:40:52 We'll explore Duncan's horrific murder of an entire family and find out how the authorities finally closed the net. We'll also delve into the revealing blog he kept from his prison cell. For more information on Joseph Edward Duncan, amongst the many sources we used, we found the spokesman reviews extensive coverage extremely helpful. helpful in our research. You can find all episodes of Serial Killers and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free on Spotify. We'll see you next time.
Starting point is 00:41:23 Have a Killer Week. Serial Killers is a Spotify original from Parcast. Executive producers include Max and Ron Cuddler, sound designed by Michael Motion, with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Trent Williamson, Carly Madden, and Joshua Kern. This episode of Serial Killers was written by Emma Dibdin, with writing assistance by Natalie Pertsovsky and Joel Callan, fact-checking by Cheyenne Lopez, and research by Brian Petrus and Chelsea Wood. Serial Killers stars Greg Polson and Vanessa Richardson.
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Starting point is 00:42:32 A beloved 75-year-old man washing up getting ready for bed is brutally beaten and killed. Despite an exhaustive investigation, the killer avoids arrest and then strikes again. I'm Global News crime reporter Nancy Hicks. You might listen to a lot of true crime podcast this year, but they're not crime beat. Search for and follow the award-winning podcast crime beat on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

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