Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - Sara Jo Pender: The Female Charles Manson?

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

Branded "the female Charles Manson" for a double murder she claims she didn't commit, a young woman executes a daring prison escape to reclaim her life—only to find that while she can outrun the law, she can’t outrun the reputation built to bring her down. Sources for this episode include: Girl, Wanted: The Chase for Sarah Pender by Steve Miller“Sarah Jo Pender asks for mercy 25 years after double murder conviction” (COURT TV, 2025)“Judge denies Sarah Jo Pender's request to cut sentence in double murder case” (IndyStar, 2026)“Fixing Their Mistakes” (Progressive Magazine, 2021)Women Behind Bars with Trevor McDonaldA Stranger in My Home “Master Manipulators” (Investigation Discovery) Keep up with Killer Stories! Instagram: @killerstoriespodTikTok: @killerstoriespodX: @killerstorieshq Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benjamin Franklin famously said, it takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it. It's a sobering thought. Most of us spend our lives carefully stacking those good deeds like bricks, hoping the walls are strong enough to withstand our mistakes. But what if those bricks were pulled out from under you? What if the one bad deed that ruined?

your name is a story told by someone else. In the case of Sarah Jo Pender, she didn't just lose her reputation, she lost her entire identity. I'm Harvey Guienne, and this is Killer Stories. Ah, the summer of 2000, if I can think back really hard, it's like I can hear that time, you know?

The gentle chime of your home piece, Booting up, the horrible wail of the ringtone on every cell phone, and the radio playing all the jams. In sinks, it's gonna be May, Destiny's Child, Aaliyah, and of course, Heavy Things by Fish, the legendary jam band. I admit, I didn't really remember that last one, but it's true Fish had their one and only radio hit that summer. Our story begins in July of 2000 at a laid-back fish concert in Indiana. Sarah Jo Pender is there with her friends. She's 21 and lives a real work hard, play hard kind of life.

She has a job doing bookkeeping and other day-to-day admin for a construction company. Her colleagues consider her dependable, a hard worker, easy to get along with, and full of wild stories. Because once Sarah clocks out for the day, oh, it's time to live it up. She loves the nightlife. She's got to boogie. She's working for the weekend. She works hard for that money, so you better treat her right, honey. Yes, these and other song lyrics perfectly sum up Sarah's work-life balance. Most nights, she goes out with friends to bars, house parties.

She often picks up guys, and guys seem to love when she picks them up. Until one day, when she meets somebody worth slowing down for. She's at that fish concert when friends introduce her to 22-year-old Rick Hull. He's a 6'5-4-4-high-school football star, but to Sarah, he's a big old teddy bear, a gentle giant. The only thing bigger than his hulking frame is his personality. He's got charm and charisma to spare. He's popular, outgoing, exactly. like Sarah. On paper, they're a perfect match, and he doesn't know it yet, but Rick has

something that Sarah's been looking for. She may act like she's afraid of nothing, but deep down, Sarah is looking for safety, a protector. Back when Sarah grew up in her small hometown, she was always motivated to do well at school. She got good grades and went to Purdue, to study physics, but as Sarah puts it, she wasn't mature enough to handle college. By her second semester, she partied more often than she went to class, and then, to everyone's shock, she dropped out. It's not like she's aimless, her job is legit. At only 20 years old, she's making enough money to support herself, but she's also living on the edge. And her life has been far from perfect lately. In early 2000, Sarah was sexually assaulted at a party. She told her mom what happened,

but decided not to press charges. And now Sarah believes the man who assaulted her is harassing her over the phone. So when she meets Rick, he's exactly what she's been looking for. The first night they meet, Rick puts his arm around Sarah and tells her, I'm going to protect you. And that seals the deal. From that point on, they're inseparable. Less than a month into the relationship, Rick moves in. Sarah invites him and his whole world through her front door. And Rick, he has a job too.

Selling drugs. One week after that, Rick needs a favor. His best friend, Drew Cotaldi, and Drew's girlfriend, Trisha, need a place to stay. Sarah is infatuated with Rick at this point, so she says, yeah, sure. I'm not sure if Sarah knows it yet, but there's a good reason Rick's friends need to couch-serve. Drew and Trisha happened to be wanted fugitives. They escaped from the Nevada Department of Corrections.

Drew was in for drug charges and Trisha for writing bad checks. One day while they were on roadside cleanup duty, they ran away. Now, by all accounts, both Drew and Trisha are kind to Sarah. They're fun to be around, and Sarah likes having another woman in the apartment. It's just the space is way too small for the four of them. So Sarah, the only one with a clean record, rents a larger house. She gets up every morning and goes to work. She pays most of the bills, and meanwhile, Rick and

Drew team up too. To sell more drugs. Just two besties together against the world, kind of like Laverne and Shirley, except with meth. Lots and lots of meth. Also, unlike Laverne and Shirley's silly misunderstandings, Rick and Drew get into serious arguments. I guess when drugs and money are on the line, best friends can turn into best frenemies pretty quick. So it's not the best idea when Sarah and Rick decide to introduce a shotgun into the whole situation. The way Sarah tells it, Rick claims he wants to go shoot stuff in the country. Another version of the story goes that they want to scare the guy who's been harassing Sarah. Whatever the case, Sarah buys a shotgun on the morning of October 24th.

Rick is there with her, but she's the only one in the house who can legally buy a gun. since the rest of them, including Rick, have criminal records. At the store, Rick grabs a box of ammunition from a display, 12-gauge deer slugs. They're meant for hunting, and they're known for creating an easy-to-follow blood trail when a hunter shoots a deer. That evening, Sarah's dad and stepmom stop by for a visit. Sarah goes shopping and Rick goes out for a stake and plays a round of pool with Sarah's dad. It's a normal night.

Maybe their last normal night. Okay, so there are at least three different versions of what happens next. For now, let's just jump ahead to the wee hours of the following morning. Around 3 a.m. on October 25th, one of Sarah and Rick's neighbors, here's something outside. It's dark, but he can see two people loading something into a pickup truck. 15 hours later, and just a few blocks away, someone else makes a good. gruesome discovery in a dumpster. It's 6 p.m. now, time to go home for the day.

An employee at a Teamsters Union Hall takes out the trash. When he lifts the lid on the dumpster, he sees a leg. Then another. Then another. He knows right away that two bodies have been dumped there, and he calls 911. Investigators recover. a young man and a young woman. Both have been dead for only a few hours.

He's been shot once in the chest, and she's been shot twice with a 12-gauge shotgun. And she's unrecognizable. Neither of the victims have identification on them. Their fingerprints don't turn up any matches in the Indiana database, but they do have some distinctive tattoos, one of which pays tribute to the grateful dead. With no other leads, investigators release photos of the tattoos to the local news.

They ask the public for help identifying the victims. Two hours later, they get a tip that breaks the case. The tattoos belong to Drew Cotaldi and Tricia Nordman. The tip leads police to Sarah's house. Nobody's there. And it's in disarray. Like there's been some kind of fight. Certain things are out of place like a couch.

sitting in the middle of the floor. When detectives move the couch, they find a large blood stain underneath. It looks like somebody tried to clean it and gave up halfway through. But investigators still don't know exactly what happened here. It'll be a while before DNA analysis comes back, proving the blood belongs to Trisha.

Right now, they need to find out what became of the other two people who lived there. Where are Sarah Joe Pender and Rick Hall? Are they safe? Have they been hurt too? Or are Sarah and Rick their number one suspects? That's when police learn from a neighbor that Rick was at home yesterday. He came over asking to borrow some kind of adapter. See, Rick was trying to clean up his girlfriend's apartment, the neighbor tells police. Aw, how nice, Rick. And he needed the adapt. to plug in a special machine. You see, Rick Hall had rented a carpet cleaner. Missing children, murder victims, unsolved homicides, breaking news. These are the cases that demand

answers. I'm Nancy Grace on crime stories. We go inside the courtroom. Speak with investigators and top experts. We hear from victims and their families. And we bring you the latest on the cases that Grip the nation and cases you may have never heard of. Please join us at Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Do you often find yourself listening to things that are dark, eerie, or macab in order to relax? Then join me over on the As the Raven Dreams podcast. New episodes several times a week, all of them chock full of the true, strange and scary stories certain to help you sleep well. Available on Spotify or anywhere else you choose to listen to your podcasts.

Police have no trouble tracking down Sarah Joe Pender and Rick Hall. Rick still uses his mom's house as his home address and police spot the two of them as they'd drive up. Now, it's obvious that Sarah and Rick aren't in danger. In fact, they've been on the run. They're planning their next move when police take them in for questioning. Here's a story Sarah tells investigators. Around 2 a.m. on October 25th, she was at home when Rick and Drew got into an argument. That kind of thing had happened before and Sarah didn't want to listen to it.

So when things got really heated, she went on a walk. And she returned about an hour later, she says she walked in and found blood all over the place. Drew and Trisha were already dead. And the reality of what Rick had done froze her. in place. She didn't know what to do. On the one hand, Sarah loves this guy, but that doesn't mean she wanted any part in a murder. Tricia was a friend. Just hours ago, the two of them had been going through Sarah's new clothes, trying them on like a fashion show montage from a 90s movie. When she left on her walk, she was living in a rom-com, and when she came back, her life had become a scary movie.

Sarah knows she should have left as soon as she saw the bodies. There was only one thing keeping her there. She was afraid that Rick would kill her next if she didn't do what he said. According to Sarah, she helped Rick move the bodies and went on the run with him because she believed she had to in order to survive. Authorities are open to what Sarah's telling them.

she cooperates too, handing over Rick's bloody clothing and even leading them to the murder weapon. For now, police decide to let Sarah go, while they place Rick under arrest. But the investigation moves ahead quickly. Investigators look into the shotgun used to kill Drew and Trisha, and they realize it didn't belong to Rick. Technically, it was purchased by Sarah. The same day as the murder. Then another chilling discovery comes to light. After Drew and Trisha were killed, after their bodies were discarded in a dumpster, Sarah went to her job.

She worked a full day, and her coworkers thought she seemed fine. Sarah claims Rick told her to go to avoid suspicion, but now nobody's really sure what to make of her story. Three days after the murders, Sarah is arrested too. While Sarah waits to go on trial, she writes dozens of letters to Rick, which she's not supposed to do. But they're able to pass notes back and forth through a friend on the outside. I guess Sarah isn't afraid of Rick anymore and isn't going to let something like a jail cell keep them apart. Her notes tend to get spicy, X-rated, but it's a little.

Sometimes G-rated. She's talking about moving into a house together, just the two of them, and living the dream whenever they get out. Except Rick isn't the only person she writes to. Sarah also strikes up a romantic relationship with a new pen pal, an inmate named Floyd Pennington. Meanwhile, Sarah's father hires a notable defense attorney. He's hopeful about Sarah's case.

I mean, she comes off as bright, and likable and he thinks there's a chance her charges will get downgraded or she'll get a plea deal. But before that can happen, things go horribly wrong. In the fall of 2001, Rick's lawyer turns over some of Sarah's letters, and one of them reads like a confession. It begins like any other letter. My dearest Richard, hi, honey, how's life? But it goes on to say,

I just snapped. I didn't mean to kill them. It must have been the acid. When you said that you would try and take the blame, I knew then that you loved me deeply. At the bottom of the letter, there is a PS, destroy this. Rick's attorney says, it's proved that Sarah, not Rick,

is actually the one who committed the murders. That letter is the beginning of the end. for Sarah's case. Rick comes forward with a new story, one where he wasn't even home when Drew and Trisha were shot, but he knows who did it. Sarah.

And he passes a polygraph test that seems to prove his version of events. To make matters worse for Sarah, an informant agrees to talk. It's her other pen pal slash boyfriend, Floyd Pennington. He claims that after getting close to Sarah over the past nine years,

months, she confided in him the truth. And yet another story emerges, one where Rick did pull the trigger, but only because Sarah coursed him, prayed upon his love for her, manipulated him because she wanted Drew and Trisha dead, and she masterminded the whole thing. It's the meatball on top of her plate of shit spaghetti. As for Sarah's fancy defense lawyer, well, He quits. And her new team is no match for the deputy prosecutor. Larry sells. And what is he selling?

Justice. When Sarah's trial begins in 2002. Larry was born to be an attorney. He's handsome, self-assured. He has a giant mustache. The kind of mustache that demands respect. Do we know if he's single? Larry's single?

Anyone? No, just asking for a friend. And he has a way with words. He's actually the one who coined Sarah's nickname in the media. Off the cuff, he calls her the female Charles Manson. As in the cult leader, who manipulated his followers into murdering at least nine victims. And the name sticks. Even today, people still call Sarah the female Charles Manson.

Well, to back up his case, Larry has the receipt for the gun in Sarah's name, the confession letter which has been confirmed by handwriting experts, and the informant, Floyd Pennington, as a key witness. And just like that, Sarah Jo Pender is convicted on two murder counts, and she's sentenced to 110 years. Rick takes a plea deal and gets 75 years. Thanks for tuning in to Killer Stories, the Spotify podcast, just kidding. That's not where this story ends, not by a long shot.

No, we still have a few twists left ago. Like how a year after Sarah's conviction, Rick comes forward again. He signs an affidavit in 2003, and he admits that the confession letter he turned over to his attorney, you know, the one that Larry Sells relied on as major evidence at Sarah's trial, it was a forgery. It wasn't written by Sarah at all. Rick had another inmate copy Sarah's handwriting in the hopes of landing a plea deal,

and now he's coming clean. Rick says he is the one who committed the murders, and Sarah only helped him because she was, quote, scared for her life. And he passed that polygraph test by putting a thumbtack in his story, shoe to mess with his heart rate and fool the machine. After this revelation, Sarah and her lawyers get to work appealing her case. They think they can win a new trial, a shorter sentence, but

that's not what happens. Year after year, the appeals get denied. By 2006, she's out of appeals entirely. That's when Sarah decides she's done waiting for the system to set her free. She's going to do it herself. She's going to escape. By 2008, Sarah's been in prison for nearly eight years. She's been a convicted murderer for six. All that time, Sarah is a model inmate. She's still likable, still a hard worker, just like she was before.

She earned a bachelor's degree and is going for her master's. But she has no intention of space. spending the rest of her life behind bars. So at this point, she's been planning her escape for 20 months. First, she gets to work cobbling together her own prison guard uniform. She's noticed that security around the prison gates isn't always as tight as you might think. She becomes convinced that if she just got the uniform, she could stroll right out and nobody would notice.

But then what? She needs a better plan, some way to get farther than the gate. Then she meets a prison guard named Scott Spittler. One of Scott's duties is driving the prison van, which could come in pretty handy if you're an inmate looking to escape, right? Well, Sarah and Scott go into business together. He sneaks contraband into the prison and Sarah distributes it. I mean, it's stuff like Benadryl and cell phones, okay?

But they both make a little extra money on the side. Sarah's building a nest egg for when she gets out. At some point, Sarah and Scott start mixing business and pleasure. They sleep together once or twice. But for Sarah, the goal is always freedom. And for Scott, the goal seems simple as well. money. Sarah offers Scott $15,000 to help her escape. On August 4th, 2008, she walks out of prison through an unmanned security gate. She knew nobody would be there, thanks to Scott. While Scott gases up the van, Sarah climbs in the back.

Then she changes into her stolen uniform while Scott distracts another guard. And then they simply drive away. 20 months of planning go off without a hitch. Outside the prison, Sarah leaves Scott and his van behind, and she climbs into another car with her friend Jamie. They met in prison in 2001 and stayed in touch, carrying on a romantic long-distance relationship. As they drive away, they crack open a bottle of vodka to celebrate. Sarah watches the scenery out the window,

overcome by its beauty. She's free. But there's something she hadn't counted on during all of her planning. Sarah had actually thought nobody would really care that much when she escaped, that they wouldn't spend time or money looking for her. But she's quite mistaken. Sarah's escape is a huge embarrassment for the prison, for the state. I mean, she walked out of a gate, so finding her is now a top priority.

Officials tracked down Scott Spittler and arrest him within 12 hours. He confesses right away. Jamie is also caught and arrested early on, but Sarah gets away. Her escape turns into a months-long manhunt. Now, before the escape, Sarah had almost beaten that whole female Charles Manson reputation. After all, Rick had backtracked on his story. He admitted Sarah had nothing to do with the murders. He insisted she did not plan anything.

But when the media learns that Sarah was in cahoots with a prison guard who was married, whom she was sleeping with, well, the nickname is back in the news a lot. Suddenly Sarah is a manipulative seductress again. She's presented as this grand deceiver who can control men's minds with her charm and sex appeal. And men are like powerless in her presence. Like when Bugs Bunny dresses like a woman and fools Elmer Fudd, I have questions. That October, she's placed on the U.S. Marshals' 15 most wanted fugitives list. And that's how Sarah Jo Pender becomes America's most wanted woman. The funny thing is, throughout all of this, Sarah is living a quiet, boring life.

Once she puts some distance between herself and the prison, she meets a guy. Tom, and they start dating. Tom is married, and that's not great. But other than that, they have a normal relationship. She stays in Cincinnati, and then Chicago, she changes her name, and she gets a job at another construction company. She's happy to live this low-key life, as long as it's not behind bars.

And then, well, then John Walsh comes along. Yeah, that's right. I'm talking about the king. John Walsh, host of America's Most Wanted. They start airing segments on Sarah that November, three months after her escape. A producer even interviews Rick Hall. By December, Sarah's whereabouts are still unknown. Again, she's just holding down a nine-of-five in Chicago, but the news is like,

where is this dangerous master manipulator? What could she be up to? Anyway, around the holidays, America's Most Wanted airs a clip show. They revisit some of the biggest cases they've covered that year, including Sarah's. Usually this kind of episode is like a lower effort placeholder. Ratings aren't usually that high around this time of year because people are on vacay. It's common tactic in entertainment. Showbiz, baby.

And wouldn't you know it? It's the clip show that finally brings Sarah's getaway to an end. One of her neighbors calls in a tip to the Chicago PD and a few officers head over to her apartment to check it out. Now all along, investigators have been thinking she'll do anything to escape. They've been trying to get her family and friends to help track her down, saying if they don't, she might die in a huge gunfight, in a blaze of glory. But in reality, Sarah is hanging out in her apartment, in her PJs, and she's high.

And the arresting officers haven't been fully braved on who Sarah is. They've just been told to bring in this person who may or may not be Sarah. But when they knock on her door, she's like, yep, I'm Sarah Pender. You finally caught me. Whatever. And the cops are like, we did? I mean, cool. After four and a half months on the run, Sarah is taken back in.

into custody without a fight. On the drive back to prison in Indiana, a detective lets Sarah stop at a Starbucks for a PSL, a pumpkin spice latte. And he gives her his iPod to pick out some music. She gets one more glimpse of the countryside while listening to Alanis Morset. This time when Sarah goes back to prison,

everybody's treating her like the female Charles Manson. She's told she is too smart for general population. So she gets sent to solitary confinement for over five years. Sarah's case is still making news. In December 2025, she was granted a resentencing hearing. Several people spoke or wrote letters on her behalf, including, get this, Larry Sells, the mustachioed prosecutor from her trial. Why?

because even more new evidence has come to light that supports Sarah's version of the story. The inmate who Rick said forged her letter, he signed an affidavit of his own in 2019, claiming that Rick bullied him into doing it. That forged letter wasn't the only evidence in her trial, of course. There was also the testimony from Floyd Pennington. He was one of the key witnesses. Well, in 2009, Larry Sells was working with journalist Steve Miller, on a book about Sarah.

They were combing through a case file when they came across a sheet of paper handwritten by Floyd Pennington. It was a long list of people he would be willing to snitch on in the hopes of getting his own plea deal. And he'd given it to a detective on Sarah's case. Larry Sell says he never saw the letter before,

nor did Sarah's original defense team. But to him, it meant one thing. Floyd was an unreliable witness, and Sarah did not get a fair trial. The very same man who came up with the whole female Charles Manson nickname has now called for Sarah to be released from prison. The decision on her resentencing comes back in January 26. Her request for a shorter sentence is denied.

It seems the state of Indiana isn't ready to change its mind. We started today with Benjamin Franklin's warning that a single bad deed can destroy a lifetime of good ones. But Sarah's story reveals a much darker side to that logic. What do you do when the world decides your reputation is fixed in stone?

Over the last two decades, Sarah Pender has been a model inmate. She's earned her degree. She's gained the support of the very man who prosecuted her. She proved that the most damning evidence against her was a lie. In any other context,

those would be the many good deeds Franklin talked about. But for the justice system, that one bad deed and the monster-level reputation that came with it outweighs everything else. The tragedy of Sarah Pender is that

she managed to escape a literal prison, but she can't seem to escape the one built out of her own name. Thanks for tuning in to Killer Stories, the Spotify podcast. New episodes release on Mondays. If you like today's story and want to learn more, we drop some of our favorite sources in the episode description. Until next time, I'm Harvey BN. Stay safe out there.