Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - Solved Murders: The Murder of Grace Budd Pt. 2 (with Greg and Vanessa!)

Episode Date: June 2, 2022

After years of dead ends and roadblocks, detectives finally tracked down the old man they believed was responsible for kidnapping 10-year-old Grace Budd. His name was Albert Fish, and he would turn out to be one of the most twisted murderers in American history. This is the final episode of a two-part crossover with the hosts of Solved Murders: True Crime Mysteries. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Listeners, we're thrilled to team up with Carter and Wendy from solved murders this week to revisit one of the most infamous crimes in history. What exactly happened to 10-year-old Grace Budd? And who was the werewolf of Wisteria? We'll be back next week with brand new episodes of serial killers. But in the meantime, enjoy. Due to the graphic nature of this murder case, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of self-harm, violence, child sexual abuse and murder,

and cannibalism. We advise extreme caution for children under 13. Albert Fish paced back and forth in his jail cell, muttering to himself and massaging his lower abdomen. His groin felt like it was on fire. Though the sensation sort of thrilled him, it was too intense. He couldn't sleep. The old man glanced around for something, anything to take his mind off the pain. Eventually, his gaze settled on his dinner tray. He grinned at the half-eaten pork chops still lying there. Fish grabbed the pork bone and grounded against the cold concrete floor. He spent hours sharpening it to a fine point.

In the morning light, he glanced through the bars of his cell to make sure no one was watching. Then he lifted his shirt and pressed the bone knife to his abdomen. In a matter of seconds, his hands were soaked in blood. A prison guard rushed to intervene. His eyes widened when he saw the fresh eight-inch-long wound across the inmate's midsection. The gash was in the shape of a cross. Albert Fish just smiled. He told the guard he didn't mean any harm. He was only trying to

relieve some discomfort. Welcome to Solved Murder's True Crime Mysteries, a Spotify original from Parcast. I'm your host, Carter Roy. And I'm your host, Wendy McKenzie. Every Wednesday, we step into the world of true crime's most fascinating murder cases and tell the tale of how real-life detectives close the case. This week, we're teaming up with Greg Poulson and Vanessa Richardson from the Serial Killers podcast. You can find all episodes of Solve Murders, Serial Killers, and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free exclusively on Spotify. Greg and Vanessa, thanks for being here.

Absolutely. This is our second episode on the 1928 murder of 10-year-old Grace Budd. Last time, we covered the horrific crime and the turbulent investigation that followed. Today we'll follow the authorities as they close in on the culprit. Six years after the murder, they found Albert Fish, a killer whose depravity shocked even the most grizzled detectives and psychiatrists on the case. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Bonnie and Clyde, the lonely hearts killers, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. These are infamous criminal.

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Off campus, L, every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. On June 3, 1928, 10-year-old Grace Budd was abducted from her Manhattan home. An elderly man, who called himself Frank Howard, convinced her parents to let him take her to a birthday party, and she never came home. Six years later, on November 12, 1934, the Blood family brought law enforcement a mysterious letter. The author claimed to be Grace's killer.

In horrifying detail, he described dismembering and cannibalizing her body. Detective William King was one of the only officers who hadn't given up on catching the culprit. And thanks to some good old-fashioned legwork, he realized the letter had been sent from a New York boarding house. That led him to a single name, neatly etched and... to the landlady's ledger, Albert H. Fish. The landlady claimed Fish had moved out just a few days earlier, but he'd probably be back soon. His son often sent him money to help him get by, and Fish was expecting another check in the mail. He had asked her to hold it for him when it arrived. It was a promising lead for Detective King. Now he knew exactly where his top suspect would turn up next.

It was the perfect opportunity for a sting operation. A few hours after talk, Talking to the landlady, King ordered officers to watch the boarding house 24-7 until Albert Fish came by for his check. In the meantime, the detective got in touch with a company that Fish's son worked for. He wanted an immediate update next time their employees were paid. There was no way he was letting the killer escape him this time. But Fish was as slippery as ever. Weeks passed with no sign of the old man.

On December 4th, police intercepted the paycheck at the post office, but Fish still didn't come by the boarding house to get it. According to the landlady, the old man depended on his son's money to make ends meet. But after a few more days passed with no Albert Fish, the police worried he'd somehow figured out they were on his trail. The officers watching the boarding house were called back to the station. Things were quiet for a time. Then on December 13th, King finally got the call he was waiting for. It was the landlady. Albert Fish had returned, and he wanted his money.

King rushed to the boarding house, where he could finally look his prime suspect in the eye. Bent over a teacup, Fish looked every bit the kindly old man. He was so thin it seemed like a breeze would knock him over. But as the detective approached, he noticed a cold glint in Fish's eyes. When the elderly man spotted King, he slowly rose to his feet and reached in his pocket. Fish pulled out a razor blade and pointed it at the detective. He didn't say a word, but his implication was clear. The detective better not come any closer.

But King wasn't easily intimidated. He didn't hesitate. He grabbed the old man's arm, twisted it, and the blade clattered to the ground. Then the detective dragged him out of the boarding house. and to the police station. By the time King got Fish into custody, it was close to 2 p.m. And although Fish tried to make a few excuses, it seemed like he was tired of lying. He'd been on the run for six long years.

That same afternoon, Fish agreed to talk. More than that, he agreed to tell the police everything. In a calm, casual voice, Fish recounted every miserable detail of Grace Budd's death. That is, every detail except for one. In his letter to Delia Budd, Fish claimed he'd cannibalized Grace, but he didn't bring that up during his confession. And King didn't ask about it, possibly because it seemed too gruesome to be true. In any case, the detective had other things on his mind.

The one thing he really wanted to know was, why did Fish murder Grace? What could he have possibly gained? The answer was as frustrating as it was, chilling. Fish replied that he had no idea why he killed. He did it all on a whim. Everything about Albert Fish left detectives revolted and confused. He pretended to be a harmless old man, but inside, he was a cold-blooded child murderer. In the months following Fish's arrest, police and reporters conducted countless interviews with the killer, trying to figure out

What made him tick? Slowly but surely, they pieced together his sad, strange, and disturbing life story. By the end, detectives came to two conclusions. First, Albert Fish had absolutely no conscience, and no evil was beyond him. Second, there had to be more bodies. There was no way Grace Budd was Fish's only victim. Coming up, the miserable life of Albert Fish. Hi listeners, it's Vanessa.

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inside the world's most notorious groups and understanding the people who join them. That's parkast.com slash cults. Thank you again for listening. We can't wait for you to dive in. All. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly Big Board Buckslot machine by Aristocrat Gaming,

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Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. And now, back to our story. Albert Fish was born in 1870 in Washington, D.C. When he was just five years old, his father died and his mother dropped him off at an orphanage. It was a frightening and abusive environment. The children were routinely and mercilessly humiliated by their caretakers,

and this mistreatment likely warped Fish's mind. And when he was just seven years old, the sight of the other boys being spanked gave him his first sexual feelings. The sensation left him feeling guilty and confused. At some point, he turned to religion, possibly to help him sort through his new sexual urges. But Fish found the stories in the Bible to be just as violent as his life in the orphanage. Perhaps because he believed God was deliberately making him suffer, Fish came to identify with Jesus Christ. He was especially fixated on the agony Christ experienced during the crucifixion. Using his own twisted logic, Fish looked to the Bible to justify the sexual thrill he got

from seeing others being tormented. To him, pain became both sin and redemption. He was ashamed of his sadistic desires, but also believed suffering was the path to absolution. Fish left the orphanage at age nine, but memories of the place haunted him for the rest of his life, He described himself as a high-strung child and said he had issues wetting the bed as a pre-teen. And as he grew into a young adult, he became more and more obsessed with pain and humiliation. He started having violent sexual fantasies. At the age of 17, Fish had two main issues.

He needed to make money, and he wanted to act on his repressed urges. So he took a job as a traveling house painter, often moving from town to town. This meant he was both anonymous and transient enough to get away with committing violent crimes. For years, Fish operated in the shadows. At certain points, he acted as a sex worker, catering to other men. Over time, his sexual interests became more extreme. There was no taboo he wouldn't break. The more disgusting or sadistic the sex act, the better.

Eventually, even that wasn't enough. Fish didn't want to role play. He wanted to commit actual violence, so he started going after children. He lured young boys to secluded locations with candy as bait. Once they were alone, he tortured and raped them. It's not known how many victims fish claimed during this period. For years, he was in and out of police custody on minor charges, ranging from vagrancy to indecency to writing bad checks. cases, Fish cooperated with the authorities and made every arrest seem like an isolated incident. It was nearly impossible for any of them to see the monster lurking inside him. To make matters worse, this was an era before national criminal databases and forensic evidence.

The average beat cop wasn't likely to take a second look at a random drifter. But for those who did get closer to Fish, the disturbing behavior was all too obvious. Sometime in his 30s, Fish married a 19-year-old girl named Anna. They had six children, and Fish later claimed that Anna shared some of his sexual interests. But it's also possible he took advantage of her young age and pressured her into certain acts. Because in 1917, Anna abandoned Fish for another man. While he was away, she cleaned out the entire house, furniture and all. The only things she left behind were her children.

Fish was devastated. Now 47 years old, he was solely responsible for feeding, clothing, and educating six kids, all on the salary of an itinerant house painter. And though it sounds unbelievable, by all accounts, he rose to the occasion. Perhaps the only good thing Fish ever did was love and care for his biological children. While many of them grew disgusted with their dad in later years, they all agreed he'd been a good father. He never raised his voice or laid a hand on them. But that didn't mean they had a normal childhood. If anything, Fish's deviance increased after his wife left him. Over the years, several of Fish's children stumbled on the tools he used to flagellate himself in private.

When they asked him about it, he said he whipped himself to get rid of. rid of his violent thoughts. One of his sons, John, said Fish was excited by the idea of lighting buildings on fire. John claimed his father loved the sound of people screaming, and that he had to be physically restrained from burning down homes in the past. Some of Fish's children apparently chalked his erratic behavior up to early-onset dementia. Others preferred to ignore it altogether, perhaps because at that point in time,

they'd never seen or heard of him actually harming anyone. All the while, Fish was committing crimes right under their noses. For decades, he ran wild across the country, targeting children like Grace Budd, but he also victimized adult women. At some point, Fish started sifting through personal ads in newspapers. He found random women's contact information, then wrote them letters involving the most disgusting fantasies he could concoct, blood, physical and psychological abuse, and graphic descriptions of every possible bodily function

were a mainstay of these messages. Fish seemed to think he had a relationship with some of these women, though his recipients were horrified by what they read. Essentially, Fish was searching for someone as depraved as he was. He longed for a partner who took pleasure in humiliation and pain the same way he did. But eventually, his habit of sending vile, unsolicited men, male landed him in hot water. In 1931, three years after murdering Grace Budd, he was arrested for sending obscene letters to a woman in Queens. Based on the disturbing content, he was sent to King's County Hospital for a psychological evaluation. It marked one of the few times a professional

ever got the chance to examine Albert Fish. But the killer was on his best behavior, and his matter of fact tone baffled the psychiatrist as much as it did the NYPD years later. After a short interview, the doctor determined that Fish had some disturbing sexual proclivities, but he didn't believe his patient was dangerous. He pronounced Albert Fish sane and released him a few days later. At that point, sometime in his 50s, Fish might have still harbored some shame about what he was doing, but he no longer felt like he could stop himself. Desperate for relief or an excuse, he turned back to his twisted conception of Christianity.

He recalled one story in particular. In the Bible, God asks a pious man named Abraham to murder his own son, Isaac. Though the idea terrifies and disgust Abraham, he reluctantly agrees to do as the Lord commands. At the last second, God intervenes to save Isaac and admits he was only to do. testing Abraham's faith. Since he displayed such loyalty to God, Abraham is rewarded with more children and prosperity. For some reason, Fish identified with Abraham, but while the biblical man had no desire to murder children, Fish had an overpowering urge to do exactly that. Perhaps because he couldn't fully understand these desires, Fish interpreted them as temptations from God. He convinced

himself that if he tried to sacrifice a child, the Lord would materialize to stop him. Of course, there was only one way to find out, and there was a corollary. If God didn't appear, Fish assumed that many was supposed to go through with the murder. He came to believe that by treating innocent children as holy sacrifices, he could atone for as many sins. That's all Grace Budd was to him, a tool he could use to absolve himself of his guilt. When Fish was arrested for Grace's abduction in 1934, psychiatrists tried to make sense of this complicated, contradictory thought process. But the more authorities questioned Fish, the more baffled they became. They just couldn't believe he was telling the truth. When Fish confessed to Grace Budd's murder,

he included some very specific and haunting details. The violence he claimed he committed was unimaginably gruesome, so they decided to test his story. On December 13th, the same night Fish was arrested, officers hauled the suspect to an abandoned home north of the city. It was called Wisteria Cottage, and Fish claimed he'd prepared it specifically for a murder. Fish gave authorities a macabre tour of the house, including a play-by-play of Grace's tragic death.

Then he led investigators around the back of the house to a low wall at the edge of the property. That was where he claimed he'd disposed of Grace's remains. Fish hunted around in the dark until he found a tree stump he recognized. He suggested the investigators start digging there. They struck something solid almost immediately and soon unearthed a smooth white object. It was a human skull, about the size of a ten. year old girls. The next day, Edward Bud and his father positively identified Albert Fish as Grace's kidnapper. The police announced Fish's arrest, igniting a media firestorm.

Reporters clamored for quotes from anyone connected to Grace Budd or Albert Fish. They even managed to track down one of Fish's sons, Albert Jr. in Queens. Junior was no fan of his father. He told journalists that his dad's behavior had disturbed him for years. He claimed he'd overheard fish screaming out Grace Budd's name in his sleep. He also mentioned that he'd walked in on his father flagellating himself with a whip. Fish's ex-wife Anna later corroborated the claim. She wasn't the only one. An old landlady claimed she found a wooden paddle in Fish's room after he moved out.

Apparently, the tool was one of several fish used to beat himself for both sexual gratification and religious penitents. Despite all the sordid stories from his past coming to light, Fish didn't seem to fully grasp his situation. From his jail cell, he wrote a letter begging Detective William King to charge him with kidnapping instead of murder. King barely registered Fish's shameless delusions. What really disturbed the detective were a couple of stray lines in the letter

where Fish went off on a tangent about his own suffering. He wrote that after Grace's murder, he'd deliberately shoved five needles into his body as an act of repentance. He claimed he could still feel them there behind his genitals, causing him pain. He'd also apparently soaked cotton balls in alcohol, put them in his rectum, and then lit them on fire. He said it hurt so bad he could barely sit down. King couldn't believe his eyes. He felt no sympathy for Fish's self-inflicted injuries,

but he did feel a sense of dread settled deep in his bones. Later, on December 28, 1934, doctors X-rayed fish to verify his deranged story. They found that the killer's claims were only partially true. Doctors could see the black streaks littering fish's pelvic region in the x-rays, signifying the needles lodged deep in his skin and muscle. Some of them appeared to be broken, but for the most part, they were still intact. There was no way the old man could have swallowed them. It seemed he really had shoved them inside of himself,

on purpose, but he'd lied when he said he only inserted five needles into his groin. Doctors counted the streaks over and over. In the end, they found 27 needles buried deep in Fish's pelvic region. Coming up, the fate of Albert Fish. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin. Way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue.

Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Kayak, got that right. Now back to the story. In late December of 1934, after about two weeks in police custody, 64-year-old Albert Fish was convincing detectives of even his most outrageous claims. The old man was so disturbed that it seemed impossible to follow his logic or understand his true aims.

The same could be said of many killers, but where others seemed to have a sense of self-preservation or clear patterns to their actions, Fish was an empty vessel. He was driven only to cause pain. He didn't even appear to care who suffered, whether it was himself or someone else. Detective William King was at a loss. He'd already suspected Fish had more victims. But now, King worried the killer's secrets were worse than he could possibly imagine. If Fish's only goal was to inflict suffering, how far would he go?

The answers to that question came slowly. For weeks following Fish's arrest in 1934, he stuck to his original story about the death of Grace Budd. But as the media turned up more tales about Fish's disturbing behavior, detectives continued to press the old man. They refused to believe Grace Budd was the only child he'd ever murdered. There were just too many coincidences. For much of his life, Fish worked as a traveling house painter with no fixed address. The authorities demanded a full account of everywhere he'd lived over the past decade.

When they cross-referenced these locations with unsolved cases involving missing children, they found several matches. First, they linked fish to four-year-old Billy Gaffney. In early 1927, the boy suddenly went missing, and Fish happened to be working nearby. He denied ever meeting Gaffney, but the authorities weren't so sure. Officers turned to the public for help.

In December 1934, police and media outlets circulated a newspaper article throughout the area. It showed a photo of fish, with a caption, Remember This Face? A man named Joseph Means studied the picture carefully. For years, he'd driven a trolley around Brooklyn. He'd met countless people. But even so, Albert Fish's face was seared into his memory.

Meen remembered a day in early 1927 when he'd overheard an old man shushing a child on the trolley. The little boy never stopped calling out for his mother during the ride, thinking about it chilled Mian to the bone. He reported the incident to the authorities. Based on Mian's description, they determined the little boy was likely Billy Gaffney. From there, the witnesses continued to roll in. A man named Hans Kiel identified Fish as a drifter who'd abducted and killed his eight-year-old neighbor, Francis, in 1924. Fish eventually admitted he recognized Kiel, though he denied Keele.

committing the murder. After that, an old police inspector told authorities that he suspected Fish murdered a teenage girl named Mary O'Connor in 1932. Her body was found near a house fish had been hired to paint. At the time, Albert Fish was a phenomenon. Serial killers were extremely rare, even unheard of in some areas. He was like a horror story come to life, a folk tale with a human face. The authorities continued linking Fish to various victims, all of whom were children. His trial for Grace Budd's killing loomed. In December 1934, Fish was indicted for first-degree murder and kidnapping.

His lawyers attempted to plead insanity. This seemed like Fish's only real hope of escaping the death penalty. Leading up to the trial, he made several remarks about being crazy to reporters and police, possibly to spin the narrative in his favor. But the judge rejected a request from Fish's lawyer to convene an insanity commission to examine the killer. Two psychiatrists working with the police had already declared Fish to be of sound mind. Still, Fish's attorney didn't give up. He called into additional psychiatrists to interview Fish on behalf of the defense.

One of them was Dr. Frederick Wortham. He spent 12 hours questioning Fish about his childhood, sexual proclivities, and crimes. And unlike the authorities, Wortham firmly believed Fish was insane. He couldn't find any precedent for the killer's extreme desire to inflict and experience pain.

Fish told the doctor, I always seemed to enjoy everything that hurt. It was Wortham who finally got Fish to admit that he'd cannibalized Grace Budd. The revelation stunned the psychiatrist along with the authorities, but it was good for the prosecution.

Thanks to Fish's confession and the investigation into Wisteria Cottage, the authorities had a fairly complete picture of Grace's death. On March 11, 1935, Fish's trial began with a retelling of his terrible crime. In 1928, Fish had been overcome by an urge to murder, and he was powerless to fight against it. He originally went to the bud home intending to kill Grace's 18-year-old brother Edward. Specifically, he wanted to mutilate the young man's genitals. Edward's personal ad in the paper initially attracted Fish, but when he met the young man, he started having doubts about his plan. Edward was larger and more mature than he'd anticipated.

Even so, Fish felt like he needed to kill someone. So he prepared a bundle of tools, including a hacksaw. saw and a butcher's knife, which he still intended to use on Edward. Fish dropped off the hardware near the Bud's place before he knocked on their door on the morning of June 3rd. When he went inside, he spotted 10-year-old Grace in her communion dress, and he forgot all about Edward. Now the old man had a new target. He invented the story about his niece's birthday party on the spot and convinced the buds to let Grace leave with him. Once he was out of sight and the little girl was in his clutches.

Her fate was sealed. Fish and Grace took a train from Manhattan to a small town called Worthington, about 45 minutes north. From there, Fish led the girl to Wisteria Cottage, the abandoned house he'd prepared specifically for such a crime. It was a dilapidated two-story building,

flanked by thick patches of trees that blocked the view to neighboring properties. But all Grace saw were, the beautiful wildflowers blooming out front. She asked Fish if she could pick some, and he encouraged her to go right ahead. While she was distracted, he slipped inside the cottage,

undressed, and unwrapped his tools. He hid in a closet on the second floor and called Grace over. The moment she entered the hallway with a bouquet of fresh pick flowers, he jumped out and seized her. She screamed for her mother, as Fish wrapped his hands around her neck. The 10-year-old girl was dead, but Albert Fish wasn't done. He spent the next few hours decapitating and mutilating Grace's body.

By the time he was finished, it was almost evening. He wrapped the little girl's remains in newspaper and left, taking the macabre package with him. Over the next several days, he cannibalized Grace's body. After such a harrowing story, tensions were high in the courtroom. The only one who didn't seem bothered by the tale was the killer himself. Fish was regularly spotted napping during the testimony. While Fish dozed, his attorney fought for his life. The lawyer was still committed to an insanity defense,

as there was virtually no other option. The trial was dominated by a back and forth of testimony from various psychologists, all weighing in on Fish's mental state. The defense claimed he hadn't known his actions were wrong. The prosecution pointed to the fact that Fish had made clear efforts to avoid facing consequences for his actions. This went on for 11 days. Finally, on March 22, 1935, the jury left the courtroom to deliberate. In a matter of hours, they had their verdict.

Albert Fish was guilty. The mandatory sentence was execution by electric chair. At first, Fish was distraught by the verdict, but later he changed his mind. He told one reporter, what a thrill it will be to die in the electric chair. It will be the supreme thrill, the only one I haven't tried. The killer spent his final days grabbing headlines. After being transferred to death row, I used a sharpened pork bone to carve a cross into a his abdomen. The media reported it as a suicide attempt, but his psychologist thought it was likely

another one of Fish's sadomasochistic rituals. And now that he was condemned to death, he had no qualms about admitting to killing four-year-old Billy Gaffney in 1927. He also claimed he'd murdered an eight-year-old boy named Francis MacDonald in 1994. Those murders, along with Grace Buds, were the only one's Fish provided detailed confessions for. But the authorities remained convinced he was holding out on them. Fish never admitted to being involved in the murder of Mary O'Connor, for instance. One person with knowledge of the police investigation later claimed law enforcement suspected Fish in at least 15 murders. Dr. Wortham believed Fish had molested at least 100 children

over the course of his lifetime. And even Fish once claimed he had victimized children in more than 20 states. If their suspicions were correct, however, authorities were never able to make the killer come clean. On January 16, 1936, Albert Fish was executed. To this day, he remains one of the most twisted murderers in American history. At a time when the concept of a serial killer wasn't widely understood, the brutality of his crimes shocked the nation. It's likely that we will never truly understand,

What drove Albert Fish to commit such atrocities? And maybe that's for the best. Thanks again for tuning in to solved murders. And thanks to Vanessa Richardson and Greg Paulson from serial killers for joining us. We'll be back next Wednesday with a new episode. For more information on Albert Fish, amongst the many sources we used, we found deranged the shocking true story of America's most fiendish killer

by Harold Schechter extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of Solved Murders, Serial Killers, and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free on Spotify. We'll see you next time. Yeah, if we all live till next time. Solve Murders True Crime Mysteries is a Spotify original from Parcast. It is executive produced by Max Cutler. Sound design by Michael Langsner with production assistance by Ron.

Sean Shapiro, Trent Williamson, Carly Madden, and Freddie Beckley. This episode of Solve Murders was written by Tara Wells, with writing assistance by Karras Allen and Abigail Cannon, fact-checking by Anya Barely, and research by Mickey Taylor and Chelsea Wood. Solve Murders and Serial Killers star Wendy McKenzie, Carter Roy, Vanessa Richardson, and Greg Poulson. Hi listeners, it's Vanessa. Exciting News, Parcast's first book, Cults Inside a... the world's most notorious groups and understanding the people who join them is now available

for pre-order at parcast.com slash cults. Thanks to your support, we've compiled years of research, insights, and a catalog of case studies to expose more about these cults and the people behind them than ever before. Details which haven't even been explored in our cults podcast, visit Parchast.com slash cults to pre-order your copy of cults inside the world's most notorious groups and understanding the people who joined them. I want to hear something spooky. Some monster, it reminded me of Bigfoot. Monsters Among Us is a weekly podcast featuring true stories of the paranormal.

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