Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - "The I-5 Strangler" Roger Reece Kibbe Pt. 2

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

After killing his first victim, Roger Kibbe decided to keep a low profile. But years later, his urge to kill returned. By mid-July of 1986, he had killed four young women — three of them in the past three months. And he had no intention of quitting. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of sexual assault, violence, drug use, and murder. We advise extreme caution for children under 13. Harriet Kibby couldn't sleep. She tossed and turned, bawling up the covers and finally kicking them off the edge of the bed. She turned to check the clock 4 a.m. She steled her nerves for a few minutes, then sat up and turned on the light. She hated to admit it, but she was lonely.

She decided to swallow her pride and head back to the other room. She could give it one more try. Maybe this time her husband would be glad she wanted to sleep with him. But that morning, the master bedroom was empty. Roger Kibby was on another of his nighttime jaunts. There was no telling where he was now, but with nothing else to do, Harriet decided to go looking. She eventually found her husband, snoozing on a couch and his woodward.

working shop. The sight of him there broke her heart. She hated that she had no idea what he was doing or how long he'd been there. Apparently, he'd rather sleep fully clothed on a ratty couch than next to her in bed. She felt a mixture of rage and sadness while up in her throat. They needed to talk. Harriet ripped the blanket off of her husband then and there. While he rubbed his eyes, she begged him to open up to her. Where was he going at night? Why wouldn't he talk to her? could make it past whatever they were going through, she insisted. They just had to work together. But they weren't really together.

The moment Harriet started asking him questions, Kibby got to his feet and headed for the door. He left without turning around. He didn't say a single word to his wife. Harriet was left devastated and alone. If she'd known where her husband was actually going at night, Harriet might have felt something else entirely. She should.

have been afraid. Hi, I'm Greg Poulson. This is Serial Killers, a Spotify original from Parcast. Every episode, we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. Today, in the second episode of a three-part series, we're continuing our look at Roger Kibby,

California's I-5 Strangler. I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Richardson. Hi, everyone. You can find episodes of Serial Killers and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free online. on Spotify. Last time we explored Kibby's troubled childhood,

his life of petty crime and his first murder. Today we'll discuss the height of Kibby's brutal killing spree and delve into the police investigation that first identified him as a serial killer. Next time, we'll follow Kibby as the walls close in around him. Even as his life fell apart, Roger Kibby never stopped killing. We've got all that and more coming up. Stay with us.

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slash killers. That's shopify.com slash killers. This episode is brought to you by Prime. obsession is in session and this summer Prime originals have everything you want steamy romances irresistible love stories and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice

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your next obsession is waiting watch only on Prime on September 11th In 1977, 38-year-old Roger Kibby murdered his first victim, Llewellyn Burley. He dumped her body in the banks of Lake Beriesa, about an hour and a half north of where he kidnapped her in Northern California. Local authorities questioned Kibby after Llew Ellen's disappearance, but couldn't find her remains or any hard evidence linking him to the crime. So in early 1978, he was released from custody, free to roam the streets again, free to kill again. And he did, just not right away.

Though Kibby acted confident in the interrogation room, he may have been spooked by how quickly police had implicated him in Llewellyn's disappearance. Really, he'd only gotten away clean because he was lucky. Witnesses had seen him speaking with Llewellyn before her disappearance. They just didn't recognize him in a photo lineup put together by police. Lucky or not, Kibi realized he would have to be more careful in the future. needed to keep his violent urges in check. He had no way of knowing whether the police were still watching him in the weeks after his interrogation. Maybe he thought they were just waiting for him to

slip up. So he was careful. At least that's what we can guess, because Kibby's activities over the next few years are murky. We know he continued to live in Contra Costa County, California, with his second wife, Harriet. And because the legal trouble had cleared up so quickly, Harry was confident her husband's alleged connection to Llewellyn Burley was all a misunderstanding. Sure, her husband was somewhat eccentric. He refused to open up to her no matter how much she pressed. But he wasn't known to be violent. Usually he went to extreme lengths to avoid confrontation. And while he had a checkered criminal history, his arrests had all been for nonviolent offenses. For his part, Kibby knew he could rely on Harriet to back him up if authorities ever came knocking again.

He was often on the other end of her fiery temper at home, but he knew she wouldn't hesitate to unload on anyone, police officer or otherwise, who threatened her family. With that in mind, Kibi maintained a low profile. He kept his job as a truck driver for Volunteers of America while Harriet did some bookkeeping work to help make ends meet, and for a while at least, things seemed fairly normal. But it didn't take long for Kibi's pass to rear its head again,

Only this time it was under a different set of circumstances. In 1979, he was briefly reunited with his only daughter, Carolyn. Her mother, Kibby's first wife, Margie, had divorced him and moved away before Carolyn turned two. Since then, he'd only seen her a few times. Now, she was 17 years old and had just given birth to a child of her own. So she stayed with Kibi and Harriet for a month and a half, perhaps to let her baby connect with their grandfather. The experience wasn't ideal. She didn't come away with a high opinion of her father or his wife,

who she found to be high-strung. In general, though, nothing happened during Carolyn's stay to give her cause for concern. The one good thing she recalled was Kibby's relationship with her baby. He doted on his grandchild and seemed delighted to play with them. It wasn't surprising to Harriet, who knew Kibi had a soft spot for children, but it seems like an odd trait for a killer to have. Before we continue with the psychology for this episode, please note, Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but we've done a lot of research for this show.

Thanks, Greg. There's a lot of uncertainty about how serial killers feel about children since their actions and psychological profiles vary so widely. At their most extreme, some murderers go so far as to target kids exclusively, indicating that they're completely unable to feel empathy for them. Forensic psychologist Catherine Ramsland, however, has pointed out that other serial killers seem to genuinely be concerned for their own children, or at least they pretend to be. She suggested that some murderers try to suppress their darkest urges around their families to help rationalize their crimes. She told Oxygen that killers might try to tell themselves, they're good people

because they're raising good kids and are good neighbors, while the secret core of their identity remains concealed. So, is it real love, or do serial killers see their families as just an extension of their own egos? There's no simple answer, and it's not really possible to determine whether some of these killers are capable of truly loving another above themselves. Still, Kibi seems like he felt something, at least for children. Then again, it's always possible this sort of behavior could have been nothing more than an act. Though the circumstances of Kibi's custody arrangement with his first wife are unclear, it seems Kibby ignores. his only daughter for most of her life.

But considering he endured an abusive childhood himself, he may have felt some sympathy for kids that he didn't for adults. Even so, it doesn't seem like he went out of his way to maintain the connection with his grandchild. And for five more long years, it's believed that Kibi stayed on the straight and narrow. He continued to hold down a job while indulging in his hobbies like skydiving and woodworking on the side.

By 1984, he was completely off the police. his radar. Now 45, Kibby decided he couldn't suppress his violent urges any longer. In April of that year, he went out hunting for victims again. This time, he approached a 27-year-old sex worker who will call Carol. Kibby paid Carol $30 for sex. When she confessed that she was struggling to earn enough money to live, he appeared sympathetic. Over the next couple of days, he gave her some extra money for meals. Once she was more comfortable around him, Kibby came to her with a strong strange proposal. He said he'd pay her $200 per day for sex if she came to live with him. At the time, Carol struggled with an expensive drug habit and was desperate for the money,

so she agreed to his terms. That night, Kibby picked her up. She thought he was going to drive her to his home, but instead he took a detour out into the countryside. Eventually, Kibby pulled over on a dark back road. Out of nowhere, he drew a revolver and forced Carol out of the carol out of the car at gunpoint. She begged him to let her go, but Kibby had gone completely cold. That's when she realized the empathy he'd shown in the past was all an act. The man in front of her was the real Roger Kibby, someone who didn't see her as anything more than a pawn. He hadn't given her money out of kindness. He'd done it to lure her into a false sense of security. Now that she was helpless, he'd stopped pretending. Kibby raped Carol. Then he'd

left her on the ground and drove away. Once he was out of sight, she got to her feet and staggered into town, found a ride to the hospital, and reported the attack to the police. The details Carol gave the authorities weren't perfect. At first, she called her attacker Robert instead of Roger and got one of the letters of his license plate wrong, but even that was more than enough to lead detectives back to Kibby. Unfortunately, the killer's luck hadn't run out yet.

When police confronted him about the assault, he stuck to his tried and true tactic, deny, deny, deny. He told the officers he recognized Carol and said that he'd given her money for food a couple of times. However, he swore he'd never had sex with her. He also admitted to giving Carol a ride on the night in question, but claimed he dropped her off safely at a fast food restaurant. With this new information, police decided to re-interview Carol to check their facts. However, they couldn't find her.

It's unclear what happened to her, but given her difficult circumstances and line of work, it's not surprising that she wouldn't reach out to authorities again. It's just that without her testimony, detectives couldn't move forward with the case. After two weeks, it was closed. Roger Kibby had once again gotten away by the skin of his teeth. Yet another credible accusation against him was left to languish in an old police file. Kibby was likely euphoric in the aftermath. On other occasions, he seemed to relish out-foxing the authorities,

and there's little doubt he felt the same rush this time. Now that he'd gotten away with so much, he seemed practically invincible. But he couldn't give in to the temptation to kill right away, because his life was about to be turned upside down. Coming up, Roger Kibby prowls the I-5 for more victims. The world is full of condes. men, fantasists, and corrupt authority figures. There are respected spiritual leaders who ask way too much of their followers,

global companies with unexpected motives, and governments that value profit over all else. Luckily for us, the world is also full of people who stand up for what they believe in, even if it turns their lives upside down. I'm Pat Rodriguez, host of whistleblowers, the new park adjudge. series that explores the biggest, most bizarre lies in history, through the eyes of those who risked absolutely everything to expose them. This season in Whistleblowers, join us as we uncover the story of the women who brought down Hollywood's most controversial yoga guru.

The doctors who believe one of the world's top surgeons used humans as his guinea pigs, and the woman who revealed Facebook's darkest secrets. Whistleblowers is a Spotify original from Parcast. Earing episodes every Tuesday starting January 18th. Follow and listen to Whistleblowers for free on Spotify. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine

for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zetbound contains terseptitide and should not be used with other terseptide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children.

Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop, Zepbound, and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with

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While it seemed, not much had changed with Kibby's dark urges since he'd killed his first victim in 1977. His private life was a different story. His wife, Harriet, wanted to move up in the world. She already had experience running her own bookkeeping company, and apparently wanted to make use of her husband's talent for woodworking as well. So in 1984, the couple borrowed money from Kibby's brother, homicide detective Steve, to buy a furniture warehouse. The family was going into business. business. The idea was for Kibby to handle the manufacturing while she took care of the financial

side of things. Since Kibby had the experience and talent to create beautiful furniture, it seemed like a slam dunk. But Harriet was quickly reminded of her husband's shortcomings. She'd always intended to look after the bookkeeping, but she no doubt expected Kibby would pitch in where he could. For the most part, however, he refused. If the problem was anything other than building furniture or fixing broken equipment, he was unwilling to help. It was a microcosm of their entire relationship. Harriet paid the bills, found the space they needed, and made sure things ran smoothly. Kibby stayed quiet in the background, giving his opinion on next to nothing.

Unsurprisingly, it didn't take long for the business to start tanking. Harriet kept things stitched together for as long as she could, but she couldn't handle it all in her own. And the more things fell apart, though more Kibby... insulated himself from everything. By 1986, Harriet was at her breaking point. One night, before they got into bed together, Kibi left the door open so their cats could come sleep with them,

something he knew Harriet couldn't stand since she was allergic to fleas. When she saw the cats coming in, Harriet erupted into a fit of rage. She decided that Kibby wanted to sleep with his pets more than his wife. So she gathered up her covers and went to spend the night in the guest room. Kibby didn't follow. From that point on, the two of them slept in separate beds. Kibby also started spending some of his nights away from home. He left at all hours and never bothered to explain where he'd been. We don't know exactly what Roger Kippe did on most of these

nights, but we do know where he was on April 21st, 1986. Around 1145 p.m., Kibby pulled up to 9th Street in Modesto, California, about 90 minutes from his home. From the driver's seat of his white Ford Maverick, he chatted up a young woman wearing designer jeans and a tank top. Her name was Laura Heedick, and she occasionally did sex work. She told Kibi that her boyfriend James Driggers was nearby. If Kibby agreed to get a room at a hotel, James would wait outside until they were done. Kibby had no issue with the arrangement. After Laura climbed in his car, he swung by.

to pick up James. Kibby even shook the man's hand while they talked business. Kibby said he and Laura were going to go pick up some drugs nearby. So James got out of the car and they drove off together. James said he would wait outside the Sahara Motel, where Laura promised to return. James watched Laura and Kibby drive away. Then he bought a bottle of wine and waited by the motel. Exactly what happened after that is unclear. Kibby likely took Laura somewhere secluded. There, he tied her hands behind her back, raped her, then strangled her with a rope or cord. When he was done, he dumped her body nearly 60 miles away near a highway intersection on Brannan Island. Meanwhile, James waited diligently outside the motel, until 10 or 11 in the morning he sat there,

trying to convince himself that Laura was fine. But eventually, he couldn't deny it any longer. His girlfriend was gone. To hide the fact that Laura was a sex worker and to avoid questions about his own criminal past, James asked his mother to file the missing persons report. Then, when questioned, he initially lied to police and gave them a false story about the circumstances of Laura's abduction. Because of that, the authorities made little headway at her case. What's more, James himself seemed the most likely suspect and was reportedly abusive toward his girlfriend.

To some detectives, it seemed possible that, Laura had willingly run away from him, or that James himself had killed her. But after James was cleared as a suspect, the trail quickly went cold. Once again, thanks to a little luck, Roger Kibby had gotten away with murder. But nothing else in his life seemed to be going his way. His relationship with Harriet was still in shambles, and their business was on the verge of collapse. When their company finally went under in June of 1986, Kibby couldn't even stand to look at his wife. After that, he spent more time away from home at night. Killing Laura Heedek had reignited his craving for violence,

and he decided that he couldn't keep a lid on his desires any longer. It was time to give in. On July 3rd, he set up another encounter with a sex worker. This time, he met 29-year-old Barbara Ann Scott, near his home in Pittsburgh. After Kibby strangled Barbara, he dumped her body just eight miles away at the Lone Tree Golf Course. It was a familiar spot he may have picked out on an earlier visit. It was near an airport that Kibby frequented because of his skydiving hobby.

Barbara's remains were found quickly, but Kibby wasn't implicated in her death. This time, the authorities didn't have any good leads whatsoever. There were no witnesses to the crime, and because she was a sex worker, police assumed that any one of Barbara's clients might have been guilty. Even as officials looked into his latest murder, Kibi wasn't done. He craved more. Less than two weeks later, he went out into the night again, prowling California's I-5 for another victim. The I-5 stretches the length of the entire state and beyond, from the border of Mexico to Canada. Almost right in the middle is Sacramento, California.

And a little after midnight on July 15th, 19-year-old Stephanie Brown was just waking up there, far earlier than usual. Her roommate, Patty, had called Stephanie for an emergency pickup. The car her boyfriend was driving had broken down, and they needed a ride back to his place. It was only hours before Stephanie had to get to her bank job, but she agreed to help out her friends. She found them in front of a liquor store downtown around 1 a.m.,

about 15 minutes from her home. Patty's boyfriend, Jim, guided Stephanie back to his apartment. She wasn't great with directions, so he wrote her a turn-by-turn guide to get back to her home from there. Crucially, he told her to take the exit for the I-5 North along the way. Jim and Patty even offered to lead Stephanie home themselves, but they would have had to wait for an hour for Jim's shift to start.

Stephanie decided it wasn't worth it. She wanted to grab as much shut-eye as she could before work. But on the way home, she took a wrong turn. The sign for the I-5 North was covered by a bush. She accidentally went south. About 30 minutes into the drive, Stephanie pulled over to the side of the road. She may have taken out a map to retrace her steps

and get back home. She knew the clock was ticking and was likely anxious about being out alone so late. Maybe she was frustrated at being so far off track and missing her exit. We don't know exactly what happened after that. Judging by Kibby's later murders, he likely pulled up alongside the teen and offered to help.

According to her family, Stephanie was fairly trusting of people. Knowing that, we can guess that Kibby threat her, perhaps holding her at gunpoint, a brief struggle ensued, which we know because one of the armrests in Stephanie's car was broken. After that, Kibby tied Stephanie's hands behind her back and took her further south, nearly 50 miles from Sacramento. Once they were in an isolated location, he most likely bound the teenager with duct tape, raped her, and strangled her with some kind of ligature. But that wasn't all. Kibi was also carrying a pair of scissors that night. All of a sudden, He was a kid again, swiping women's clothing from their backyards.

He was overcome by a powerful urge. He wanted to cut to destroy. Kippy hacked at Stephanie's scalp with the scissors to cut out the duct tape and avoid leaving behind evidence. When he started, her hair reached her chest. By the time he was done, it looked more like an uneven bob, with one side only an inch long and the other reaching her ear. Afterward, Kippy dumped her body in a drainage ditch.

The following morning, the phone rang at Stephanie's home. It was her boss calling to track her down. By that time, Patty was back from her boyfriend's place. When she realized that Stephanie was missing, she felt a knot form in the pit of her stomach. She phoned Stephanie's mother to tell her what had happened. Frantic, Mrs. Brown asked Patty to comb the route back from her boyfriends to make sure Stephanie's car hadn't broken down along the way.

In the meantime, she called up her daughter's friends to ask if they'd seen her. It was only more bad news. No one had heard from Stephanie, and there was no sign of her car. It didn't look like she'd come home at all. Panicked, Mrs. Brown filed a missing person's report, but she didn't have to wait long to find out what happened to her daughter. That same afternoon, deputies from San Joaquin County rang the Sacramento police. A fisherman had found Stephanie's body in a rarely used drainage ditch that morning,

about 40 miles south. her car was also discovered, parked on the shoulder of a highway off ramp. It was unusual for such a case to make that much progress so quickly. Stephanie's body had been well hidden, far away from her hometown and off the beaten path. If this had been a standalone murder, detectives would have had the unique opportunity to catch the perpetrator quickly. But some people suspected that this wasn't an ordinary case. Some officers worried they were tracking a serial killer with no real connection to their

victim, which would make solving the case much harder. They didn't have much evidence yet besides their intuition, but the circumstances of Stephanie's abduction were chilling. She had no known enemies. Her ex-boyfriend had a solid alibi. Plus, it was pure chance that she'd been on the I-5 South that night. So it seemed unlikely that anyone deliberately targeting her would have been able to take advantage of the opportunity. Then there was the autopsy. Detectives believed they were dealing with a killer who had some experience. That's because the murderer had left remarkably little evidence behind and dumped the body in a hard-to-reach spot.

There was also the matter of her hair and clothes. Mrs. Brown insisted that Stephanie always wore her hair long, but the body had been found with a short cut. Her tank top had also been cut to pieces. After fishing around in the ditch, police discovered a brand new pair of scissors down in the mud. The immediate question on everyone's mind was, Why? Criminologist Catherine Ramsland wrote about the early investigation into the I-5 Strangler.

She explained that some killers leave a signature, a behavioral manifestation of an individualizing personality quirk. Ramsland wrote that at this point in the I-5 investigation, investigators thought they had a fetish killer, who probably got aroused from cutting his victim's clothing, and they were certain he was not going to stop. Guessing that their perp was a serial killer meant police were working on an even tighter timeline than usual. They had no idea when or where the killer would strike next. All they knew was they had to stop him.

But though they were onto him, Roger Kibby was still two steps ahead. Coming up, Roger Kibby kills again and again. Want to support your gut health? Take Activia's gut health challenge by enjoying two Activia yogurt today for two weeks and see if you feel a difference. With billions of probiotics and 20 years of scientific expertise,

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And though he wasn't yet a suspect in the most recent case, the police had finally realized they were dealing with a serial killer. They hadn't linked his crimes yet, but elements of Stephanie Brown's murder gave them pause. The authorities knew the clock was ticking. They were certain Stephanie's killer would strike again soon. They were right. Back at his home, Kibby was once again feeling the urge to kill.

He didn't know what drove for him. him to do it exactly, but he knew he had to give in. Yet he wasn't entirely out of control. He could be patient when he needed to be, and he wanted to make sure the police weren't already on his trail. To do that, Kibby kept to the old adage. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Sometime in July of 1986, Kibby left his home to stay with his brother, Steve, for a few days. Steve was a homicide detective, and Kibby might have been hoping that visiting his house for a while, would throw police off the scent. He had other reasons to leave, too.

His wife Harriet was at her wits' end. Their relationship was almost non-existent by that stage. She felt like she was handling everything on her own. Their fractured marriage, their failed business. It had all fallen on her shoulders. Meanwhile, Kibby had checked out. While his wife tried to hold things together, he went off to commit murder,

then vanished to live with his brother for a few days, as Harriet's life crumbled in her hands. Even when he came home, things didn't get any better. One night she found him asleep in his workshop at 4 a.m. Confused, turd, and angry, she begged for an explanation. She was desperate for him to talk to her. In response, he stood up and walked out the door. After that, Harriet could see the writing on the wall.

She was sure Kibby would leave her, and though theirs was far from a happy marriage, the thought filled her with dread, She hated being alone. She'd rather have a silent husband than no one at all, but it was over. She could see that. Still, she was concerned for their financial well-being.

It would have been a disaster to divorce when their business had just imploded. So she cornered Kibby and asked him to stay in the marriage for just one more year. She swore she'd work hard to get them back on their feet. All she needed was a few more months. This episode came out of nowhere. Harriet hadn't actually asked her husband if he was going to be. to divorce her, she simply assumed he would, and when she came to him, desperate, offering a deal, he didn't care enough to ask why.

He didn't feign ignorance about what she was referring to. He didn't try to consult his wife. All he did was look at her, nod, and agree to stay for one more year. It was a devastating, if expected, response. And afterward, the couple's lives went back to the status quo. Kibby would be there during the day, then disappear once the sun went, went down. Harriet probably tried not to think about where he went anymore. But the Sacramento police thought of nothing else. For months now, they've been trying to pick up the trail of their killer. It wasn't easy. Kibby had left little evidence behind after he killed Stephanie Brown.

Besides the cut-up tank top, all police had managed to find so far was Stephanie's abandoned vehicle. But frustratingly, there were no fingerprints or other incriminating evidence inside. The prospects were looking bleak. There are no reliable ways to catch a serial killer who has no personal connection to their victims. In cases like this, investigators can be reduced to waiting until the murderer makes a mistake. If the killer leaves evidence behind or is spotted by a witness, then detectives have something to go off of. But the police didn't want to wait. So on July 29, 1986, they set up a checkpoint at an I-5 off-ramp, near the spot where Stephanie's vehicle was discerpt.

Though the odds of finding evidence this way were low, they had to cast a wide net. Ideally, they wanted to find frequent travelers along the route and try to jog their memories. It was a long shot, but they hoped someone might remember the night of Stephanie's death. Maybe someone had spotted her on the side of the road. Unfortunately, the tactic failed to bear any fruit, but the blockade was covered by the local media and sparked a flurry of calls from concerned citizens. of them had tips to share, however, none of these turned out to be useful. Frustrated, officers felt like they were spinning their wheels. The I-5 murder, as the media dubbed it, only increased

Kibi's notoriety. As it turned out, the police were closer than they knew to catching Kibby. On August 16th, just three weeks after their failed checkpoint operation, Roger Kibby was back on the I-5, and he was hunting his next victim. Sometime after 3 a.m., he passed by the area where he'd left Stephanie Brown's car. Not too far away set a 1973 Pontiac Grand Prix with its emergency flashes on. Kibi pulled over behind the vehicle. A few moments later, he was approached by 52-year-old Carmen Anselmi. She and her daughter, 26-year-old Charmaine Sabra, were stranded.

Their car was busted and they had no idea where the nearest gas station or payphone was. Kibby smiled at the women and offered to help, but he said he only had a two-seater. He could only take one of them to a payphone. After some hesitation, Carmen volunteered to go. The man seemed nice enough, if a little quiet. She rode with him a couple of miles down to a rest stop and made polite small talk along the way. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. This was similar to what Kibi had done before with Carol, the sex worker he attacked earlier.

He took the time to earn her trust. before revealing his true nature. This is a tactic many serial killers used to catch their victims off guard, and it's one psychologist Joel Norris wrote about in his 1988 book, Serial Killers, The Growing Menace. Norris identified several common serial killer behaviors,

which he termed psychological phases. The first phase he described involves the killer withdrawing from reality and life. This matches up with the way Kibby's relationship to his wife, gradually disintegrated. Another is known as the wooing phase. During this process, the killer tries to gain the trust of his victims before he captures them. A killer like Kibby didn't want his victims to put up a fight. He just wanted them dead. Carmen Anselmi was the latest target of his charms.

He brought her safely to the nearest pay phone, just as promised. Then he watched as Carmen dropped some coins into the slot and tried ringing a family member, Carlos. One ring, two rings, nothing. Carmen's heart sank. She knew Carlos must be sleeping and couldn't blame him for not answering, but she didn't have a plan B, so she tried calling again. When he still didn't pick up, she called her other daughter. There was no answer.

With no idea of anyone else to call, she meekly left the phone booth and shuffled back to Kibby's car. Kibby took her back to her daughter and offered more help. He said he could give one of them a ride home, but that was all he could fit. They would have to figure things out from there. Carmen was thankful that such a kind man had stopped to help them. This time, she decided to send her daughter. After all, Charmaine had a baby to feed, waiting back at home.

As soon as she made it back, she could wake someone up and come rescue Carmen. Kibby smiled as Charmaine climbed into his passenger seat. Everything was falling into place. It's unclear what he might have done if Carmen had been able to call for help at the payphone. But since she hadn't, he had free reign. He could take Charmaine wherever he wanted. Carmen watched Kibby and her daughter drive away. Then she laid back in her seat and nodded off to sleep.

She intended on just taking a nap, but when she awoke, it was 9 a.m. Outside was a stern-looking police officer. He wanted to know what she was doing on the side of the road. When Carmen realized what time it was, her heart started to pound. She tried to tell herself that it had only been a few hours. She reasoned that Charmaine might not have been able to find someone to pick her up at such a late hour. She didn't blame anyone for not wanting to prowl along a dark highway. She smiled and accepted the police officer's help.

This time when she got to a phone, someone picked up. And 45 minutes later, her utterly bewildered son arrived to pick her up. Carmen was so exhausted that she almost didn't register his confusion, but then she realized that Charmaine should have already explained the situation. Surely he'd already spoken to her when she got home, right? Carlos had no idea what she was talking about. Then he asked where Charmaine was, and Carmen's heart plummeted. She realized at last her daughter was gone.

Thanks again for tuning in to serial killers. We'll be back soon with part three of the I-5 Strangler, where we'll follow the police investigation that finally nailed Roger Kibby, though not before he claimed more victims. For more information on Roger Kibby, among the many sources we used, we found trace evidence, the hunt for the I-5 serial killer by Bruce Anderson, extremely helpful to our research.

You can find all episodes of serial killers and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free on Spotify. We'll see you next time. Serial Killers is a Spotify original from Parcast. Executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler, sound design by Brendan Hawkins, with production assistants by Ron Shapiro, Trent Williamson, Carly Madden, and Joshua Kern.

This episode of Serial Killers was written by Terrell Wells, with writing assistance by Joel Callan, fact-checking by Claire Cronin, and research by Brian Petrus and Chelsea Wood. Serial killers stars Greg Poulson and Vanessa Richardson. All. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly

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