Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - “The Lethal Lovers” - Gwen Graham & Cathy Wood

Episode Date: October 30, 2017

After meeting at Alpine Manor in Michigan, nurses’ aides Gwen Graham and Cathy Wood began a romantic relationship that eventually earned them the nickname “The Lethal Lovers.” Motivated by dark erotophonophilia, Graham and Wood’s dangerous “pranks” soon escalated to what they dubbed “The Murder Game”.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Don't miss Sol de Janeiro's limited edition perfume mist collection, only at Sephora. Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes dramatizations and discussions of murder and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under 13. I love you, Gwen. I think you're great. For this afternoon, I cannot wait. That's when I'll wake up and that's when I'll kiss you. That's when I'll hold you.

Oh, Gwen, I miss you. Bunny hop over here and let me lick you. on the ear. I want to get married right now, right away. Don't make me wait till the day when you're mine. Oh, please say you'll be mine forever and five days. What you've just heard is the text of a poem written by Kathy Wood to her then lover, Gwendolyn Graham, nearing the end of their tenure as nurses out the Alpine Manor Nursing Home. At first glance, it appears to be a tender expression of love, from one woman to another. And the only possible crime the author has committed, the crime of amateur poetry. But this poem scrawled on a sheet of nurses'

note stationary was actually the artifact of an abusive relationship, the chronicle of a vicious medical killing spree, which claimed the lives of at least five Alpine Manor patients in Walker, Michigan. Hi, I'm Greg Polson. This is serial killers, a parkast original. Every Monday we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. Today we're going to take a deep dive into the lives of Gwendolyn Graham and Kathy Wood, a pair of nurses who melded murder with their sexual relationship, leading the papers to label them, the lethal lovers. I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Richardson.

Hi, everyone. You can find episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. To stream serial killers for free on Spotify, just open the app and type serial killers in the search bar. At Parcast, we're grateful for you, our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing. Reach out on Facebook and Instagram at Parcast and Twitter at Parcast Network.

And if you enjoy today's episode, the best way to help us is to leave a five-star review wherever you're listening. It really does help. And now, back to the case of Gwen Graham and Kathy Wood. In the winter of 1987, from the month of January to the month of March, nurses Gwendolyn Graham and Kathy Wood smothered five of their patients as part of a murderous love pact. They targeted the weakest among the old and sickly people they were charged to protect, women with Alzheimer's and dementia. They killed for thrills, sexual gratification, and the hope that the killings would forever bind them. them together. In the end, their hopes became a gruesome reality. Just a reminder, Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she has done a lot

of research for this show. Thanks, Greg. It's hard to believe a person who selects a normally selfless career like nursing would murder their own patients. I know what you mean, Greg. It follows that they're one of the rarest types of serial killers. They're called Angels of Death, medical killers. Like you said, they're one of the rarest types of serial murders defined by the FBI, which if you listen to serial killers in the past, you may be familiar with. Medical killers typically fall into one of three categories, mercy killers, sadistic killers, or malignant heroes.

Gwen Graham and Kathy Wood would probably be classified as sadistic medical killers, and their case stands out because of a number of unusual details. They worked as a team and carried out the killings as part of the case. of the basis for their sexual relationship. Why would this type of relationship ever develop? The answers to that question are embedded within the psychology of these two women. Let's jump right into it. Many of the pathologies exhibited by serial killers, especially those with sexual motivations,

are rooted in childhood experience. From what we discussed prior to the show, it sounds like Gwen Graham and Kathy Wood both had extremely turbulent youths. Let's start there. Okay, we'll begin with Gwen. Gwen Graham spent most of her formative years on a farm outside of Tyler, Texas, where her family moved shortly after she finished the fifth grade. Her father was a hard man with hard-set provincial ideas about how a child should be raised.

He believed Gwen needed to understand the processes of life and death. He tried to teach her by forcing her to watch the beheading of chickens and the slaughter of pigs. At a young age, she became well-acquainted, with the processes, which turn animals from living creatures into food. But this early introduction to death didn't stop with just livestock. When Gwen was a teenager, her dog Misty barked at a horse, causing the rider to be thrown. Gwen was living between Modesto with her mother and Tyler with her father. Later, she returned home to find her brother had shot her beloved dog.

The experience haunted Gwen, so much so that shortly after her dog's dog, death, she went into the yard where Misty was buried and dug up her remains. She couldn't let go of the trauma, just like she couldn't let go of Misty's teeth and skull, which she kept with her in an alabaster heart box until her arrest. That definitely would have been a traumatic experience, Greg, especially for a child. Children are disproportionately affected by the death of a loved one or an animal because they lack the experience of adults. They have difficulty with finality and entertain fancy of their loved one returning from the dead. When they're exposed to death at a young age,

and in such a cruel, callous manner, they find the experience difficult to process. A parent or other mentor can help them understand death, but it sounds like Gwen's father had a really sick idea of parenting. Where was her mother through all of this? Did she have a close relationship with Gwen? Unfortunately, no. Her father's tyrannical parenting style

also tainted Gwen's relationship with her mom. Gwen spent most of her early development untouched by her mother, though they developed more of a relationship as she got older and her parents separated. It's taken as common knowledge that a baby needs to be held by its mother, but what psychological effects does this sort of deprivation have on a child? Could Gwen's separation from her mother have contributed to her development into a serial killer? Absolutely. Children who don't receive maternal support do worse in school,

have stunted emotional development and are far more likely to develop psychological disorders, such as early-onset depression. Do they need their mother or can dad do the job? What about single-parent households and queer and non-traditional families? Yes, paternal support or single-parent support does the trick. A study published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences found that as long as the child is nurtured by a parent, it doesn't matter which sex that parent is. But Gwen received care from neither.

What's the reason behind the psychological problems that form when a child isn't held by a parent? You might be surprised to hear that psychological problems caused by a lack of nurture are actually rooted in biology. Studies have shown that the human brain's physical development is influenced by the psychosocial development, which is supposed to occur during childhood. Nurturing a child early in its development stimulates growth of the hippocampus, the region of the brain associated with learning, memory, and stress responses. In addition, these early social experiences increased the volume of the amygdala responsible for the processing and memory of emotional reactions.

It's more than likely these parts of Gwen's brain never fully developed because she was neglected in childhood. And that's why she had difficulty coping with stress and controlling her emotions, both hallmarks of serial killer personalities. That's right, Greg. Those are also symptoms of borderline personality disorder. Go on, though. Was there any other turbulence in Gwen's youth that we haven't discussed yet? Well, in her teenage years, Gwen started to cut herself and put cigarettes out on her arms. By the time she left home, Gwen had 31 different scars up both of her arms from cigarette burns and razor blades. Wow, it sounds like it could be BPD. People with borderline personality disorder sometimes displaced. their emotional pain by inflicting physical pain upon themselves. Gwen's testimony

implies that she hurt herself physically to distract herself from her emotional pain. However, Christopher Barry Dee, an author who conducted an interview with Gwen, noted that the prison doctor in charge of her confirmed she was still self-harming well into adulthood. As easy as it might be to trust Gwen's explanation, there's more to her story than a difficult childhood on the farm. I see. What do you say we move on to Kathy's youth? Good idea, but let's take a quick break first. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric

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Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Kayak. Got that right. Now back to the story. Kathy Wood was born at an Air Force base near Soap Lake in Washington State, where her father was stationed in 1962.

After Kathy's sister Barbara was born, the family moved to Massachusetts. Shortly thereafter, her father was shipped off to fight in the Vietnam War. He wasn't around often. Barbara recollects that growing up in a military family fostered a strong bond between her and Kathy. But aside from her sister, Kathy had to be a child. had difficulty forming relationships and didn't socialize often. She was a smart kid, fascinated by books, and spent a lot of time alone in her bedroom reading. Barbara speculates that she did

this to escape social life on the schoolyard, where the other children were very cruel to her. Kathy was a big girl, tall and also heavy. As cruel as other children were, the biggest hit to herself esteem likely came from her father. He wasn't around often, preoccupied with his military career. And when he was, he was not supportive. Our society pressures young girls to be beautiful way too much. When they start to mature sexually, this pressure redoubles. What was puberty like for Kathy? Tough, it seems. When Kathy was 13, or at least according to her, her father criticized her mercilessly for her physical appearance and made her feel very ugly. Despite low self-esteem, Kathy got into a relationship with a boy named David, who drove a pink Cadillac. The two went to movies, made out

in David's car, and generally carried out a normal relationship. Until the day Kathy met David's mother, she went to David's home, the pink Cadillac parking in the driveway, and asked for him. His mother was confused. She didn't have a boy. She had a girl. She led Kathy inside and showed her a photograph. It was a girl with long flowing hair, wearing a floral pattern dress. it was David. Must have been quite a shock. I know. I did not see that coming. Well, surely, Greg, but I meant for Kathy.

Oh. Such a sudden revelation about one significant other, especially for an adolescent who's experimenting sexually for the first time, was bad for Kathy's interpersonal and sexual development moving forward. An intimate lie from an early sexual partner fosters a lack of trust in other relationships.

Oh, there's no real proof that David or Debbie existed, or that these events unfolded in the way Kathy described. But we'll keep referring to her beau as David, because that's how Kathy knew them. Right, but still, for Kathy to be on the receiving end of this deception must have been very confusing. From what you've already told me about her family life, I don't suspect she could have counted on her parents to help her understand the situation. No, she couldn't. The subject was never brought up in their household. Kathy wasn't allowed to talk about sex. and so felt she couldn't discuss her ordeal with David with her parents.

That's a shame. A good line of communication with one's parents is conducive to helping a child understand their sexual impulses and experiences. An adult is far more experienced with sexual culture, and with the right language can help a child understand the biological and behavioral changes associated with adolescents. It can be more difficult for queer teens to broach the topic of sexuality with their parents,

parents. Well, why is that? Well, some parents are not understanding, and we'll throw them out on the street if they learn the truth. Gay teens are more likely to suffer harassment at home, or to be kicked out of their homes than heterosexual ones. If Kathy couldn't go to her parents, what did she do after the truth about David was revealed to her? Well, that's the thing. Even after David's mother showed her the photograph, Kathy was still confused. She still didn't know if David was a boy or a girl. So Kathy caught up with David and confronted them. She told David what his mother had said, and that Kathy had seen a photo of him as a girl.

Then the two of them had sex in an abandoned house. Kathy said she made herself sleep with David so she could see everything. Only then did she accept that David was biologically female. What does Kathy's sexual development have to do with her genesis into a serial killer? That will become more clear later on as we unpack the murders. Kathy and Gwen committed crimes with a sexual motivation. And Kathy's romantic life tells us a lot about her. At 16, Kathy repeated the experience with her next lover.

He was, as Kathy described him, obviously a man. Ken Wood was a heavyset man, a few years Kathy's senior. After their first date, Kathy made sure they ended up at his apartment. He started to undress, but Kathy wasn't interested in having sex with him. She just wanted to look. Once she saw that he was indeed a man, she was satisfied she could trust him and had him get dressed. After a short courtship, Kathy became pregnant, and she and Ken were married. Ken took Kathy away from her troublesome family life, and the pair of them moved to Walker, Michigan, where she gave birth to her daughter, Jacqueline, in February of 1980.

I'm guessing they didn't live happily ever after. Yes, her relationship with Ken was marred by sexual incompatibility. She said of her relationship, sex was, it was just nothing. It was nothing, just something you had to do, something you did because your husband wanted to. It wasn't fun. It wasn't interesting. I didn't like him touching me, and I didn't like spending any time with him. Though Kathy was unhappy with Ken, she felt dependent on him.

They stayed together for another seven years before Kathy demanded a divorce in 1986. Ken left with her daughter, without a fuss from Kathy. Once she was on her own, Kathy had to look for a job. Because she had no skills, she began filling out applications everywhere. One of them was for the job of nurses' aid at the Alpine Manor Nursing Home, not far from where she lived. She had experience in her teenage years as a candy striper, that is a volunteer nurse, so-called for the red and white stockings,

which accompanied the uniform in those days. She had fond memories of that job, and thought the experience would carry over. She got the job, bought a truck, and started to feel like she could make her own decisions. She had a new sense of independence at Alpine Manor, without Ken. And it was at Alpine Manor that Kathy would encounter Gwen for the first time. But to form this relationship,

she probably had to get over her sexual hangups. Did her newfound independence lead to a sexual reawakening? Well, once Kathy broke away from her unsatisfying relationship, she felt free to express herself in other ways. Luckily for her, there was a thriving lesbian community at Alpine Manor. One of Kathy's co-workers at the time, a nurse's aide, described the nursing home as a cubby of lesbians. After six months of working at Alpine Manor,

Kathy met an 18-year-old woman named Dawn, who started giving her attention. It was at this point, at 25 years of age, that Kathy began to believe she was gay. So she began her first same-sex relationship with Dawn. The lesbian culture, which surrounded Alpine Manor, became a positive outlet for Kathy. Kathy began a very active social life, going to movies and bars,

drinking and shooting pool with her newfound friends. For the first time in her life, Kathy had found a group of people who understood her. Furthermore, in Dawn, she had found a companion who could satisfy her emotional and sexual needs. It seems like she was leveling on, a little bit, don't you think? She may have been, but then she met Gwen.

While Kathy and Gwen were coworkers, Kathy didn't take much interest in her. They had a common relation in Dawn, who was Gwen's friend, but never talked to each other. However, three weeks into Kathy's relationship with Dawn, something about Gwen caught her fancy. Kathy was sitting in the common area

having a chat with Dawn when Gwen entered the room. That day, Gwen was wearing her uniform with the sleeves rolled up. Even from across the room, Kathy caught sight of the scars running up each of Gwen's arms, the scars she'd inflicted upon herself during adolescence. Kathy recollects that this was the moment she started watching her a bit. That sounds kind of creepy. Why would the scars of self-injury attract Kathy to Gwen?

A study conducted at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden may help us shed light on this kind of attraction. Psychologists there examined 700,000 men and women with psychiatric diagnoses and compared their marital resemblance with 3 million people without psychological diagnoses. And what is marital resemblance? Marital resemblance is when one person in a marriage is similar to their partner in one way or another. A non-psychiatric example of a characteristic which is positively correlated is height. Positively what now?

positively correlated. It means a relationship between two variables, where when one of the variables increases, so does the other. The variable in the height example would be whether a person is tall or short. Since there's a positive correlation for height, tall people tend to marry other tall people, and short people often end up with short people. Being the same height as your mate makes things less physically complicated, right? It's easier to kiss, to hold hands. You get the idea.

But what does that have to do with Gwen and Kathy? How tall were they? That's not really what I'm getting at. This principle holds true for mental health as well. Though people with a psychiatric disorder are slightly less likely to marry, on the whole, they're two to three times more likely to marry someone else with a psychiatric diagnosis. Did you find any reasons for marital resemblance among psychiatric patients in your research? Well, like any good study, the one conducted at the Karolinska Institute offered

alternative hypotheses for the reasons people with mental illness tend to partner up. These individuals might be more likely to wed because they're more likely to be in close proximity. They might meet in a psychiatric hospital or in a support group that deals with a disorder. Right. Also, if an individual had a disorder, it might lead them to be more understanding and less likely to stigmatize others with a similar disorder. Alternatively, the marital resemblance might not come from initial attraction at all. Instead, one partner's mental health issues might cause similar issues in a partner they were married to for an extended period of time. So which of these were specific to the case of Gwen and Kathy?

I think Kathy and Gwen were attracted because each understood the psychological issues fostered by abuse and wanted a partner who could understand them too. Marital resemblance between neurodivergent people increases even more when they have similar or complementary diagnoses. Gwen and Kathy, whose disorders had likely developed at a young age, were even more likely to partner up. And that they did. Their relationship began in March of 1986. It seemed like a positive relationship at first.

Well, at least Kathy seemed to enjoy it. But after a while, their coworkers began to notice negative aspects of their relationship. It seemed like it was Gwen and Kathy versus the world, and people began to steer clear. This attitude came to light in Gwen and Kathy's propensity for games. They like to play tricks in their patients and coworkers. They weren't your usual harmless pranks that most people play. There was a malicious bent to them.

Kathy would tell a fellow nurse that she had better watch her husband. Then she would call the husband up and tell him that she'd heard rumors that his wife was sleeping around. She liked to stir the pot, create drama, and watch people squirm. Sometimes Kathy and Gwen involved their sickly patient. in the tricks. They would shuffle patients into different rooms without alerting the other staff to create chaos. Nurses couldn't find patients and patients couldn't get care. That type of behavior is not healthy. A good prank is the simulation of a crisis, not the actual thing. You pull the rug out from under someone temporarily, but after you've had your fun, you set things right, stimulating a rush

of comic relief. It sounds like Kathy and Gwen found enjoyment in creating an actual crisis. and watching the train wreck that followed. But why would someone do something like that? It stems from a lack of control. Both Gwen and Kathy were individuals who felt they had no control over their lives. Gwen could not stop her father from molesting her or save her little dog Misty from her untimely demise.

Kathy was manipulated in her first sexual relationship and then found herself unable to take the reins in her marriage with Ken. You're right. Kathy described their divorce in terms of claiming the power to make her own decisions. Good eye, Greg. That's very telling. These pranks were a way for Gwen and Kathy to claim a sense of power

by inflicting it upon others. Normally, people create conflict with others with whom they're emotionally engaged. The conflict is an attempt to bring feelings of opposition to the surface so that they may be resolved. But pathological personalities like to create conflicts in which their only emotional engagement is in seeing others,

lose control. They feel powerful knowing that they're the reason other people are in chaos. So Gwen and Kathy's pranks showcased a pathological need to hold power over other people. Yes, absolutely. Well, it wasn't long before they invented a new game, a game with much higher stakes, one which would allow them to exercise the ultimate power over their patients. They called it the murder game. Now back to the story. The killings began in the cold January of 1987.

What the murder game entailed was a selection process. Gwen and Kathy wanted to choose each victim based upon the initial of their first name, and then do the killings in such an order that, strung together, the initials would spell out M-U-R-D-E-R, murder. The story goes that Kathy would make sure the coast was clear, distracting the other staff on duty at the nursing home if necessary. Then, Gwen would enter the selected patient's room with a cloth. Kathy watched from the door as Gwen held the cloth over the elderly patient's mouth and nose, smothering them.

After the killing, Gwen and Kathy would retreat to an unoccupied room for sex, while the memory of the murder was still fresh. Dr. Michael Abramsky, a forensic psychologist, described the killings as thrill killings. He believed the killings were an expression of the killer's deviant personalities, and were carried out for excitement. It is, however, unusual for women to be involved in this type of killing, with women committing only around 15% of homicides in general. Vanessa, can you offer any insight into why Gwen and Kathy might have committed this type of murder,

given the rarity of a woman's involvement? Did they repeat this process for each victim? Yes, with a little variation, but it was generally the same for each victim. What are you driving at? That detail, combined with the sexual nature of the crimes, leads me to believe that Kathy and Gwen suffered from a type of paraphylia known as erotophonophilia. Let's unpack those terms a little bit for our listeners. One is a subset of the other. Paraphilia exists in a person who is turned on by extreme or dangerous acts.

Eradophonophonophilia is a specific type of parapheria where the extreme element is the death of another person. We've discussed lust killings. Is that along the lines of what we're talking about? Yes, that's a common term for murders committed with erratophonophilia motivations. I perked up when you mentioned the ritualistic manner in which Kathy and Gwen's murders were committed because erotophonophonophilic killers murder their victim as part of a ritualized attack. Their goal is to live out of fantasy they've imagined for some time. The ritual is repeated with each of their victims because they can never get reality

to match up with their imagination. The fantasy evolves with each experience, creating new facets to be enacted through the next victim. Sounds like a vicious cycle. They need to kill to satisfy their deviant desires, but the experience of killing creates even more murderous ideas. That might be why some erudofonophiles tend to be serial killers, and could be what we're seeing here.

Gwen and Kathy developed a complex ritual, an outgrowth of their deviant sexual fantasies, which was repeated until their relationship dissolved. That's fascinating. But why would anyone risk enacting an elaborate ritual at the crime scene, even if they needed to kill for arousal? Doesn't that greatly increase the likelihood of getting caught? Couldn't they do the killing quickly

and then retire somewhere to complete the sexual part? Lust murderers are known to be psychologically and behaviorally different from killers with motivations of anger or reverse? so they might not always act in their best interest. For some killers, simply murdering the victim is not sufficient for sexual gratification. Despite increasing the time the killer needs to spend with the body, creating more evidence and bolstering the likelihood of being caught, the rituals are necessary because they serve a psychological purpose.

What purpose is that? Is it one shared by the general public? In a way, human beings have a human beings have a human being Human beings have what are referred to as sexual arousal patterns, acts habitually completed before sex. In neurotypical people, these patterns include more mainstream types of foreplay, such as kissing or caressing, as well as fetishes like foot worship or bondage. Remember, it's psychologically the same with people in mainstream society,

only they don't often recognize their pattern of arousal. They just see their behavior as the norm. But we're getting a little ahead of ourselves, aren't we? I'd be far more convinced that Gwen and Kathy were erod of phonophiles if there was evidence which showed the development of this ritual prior to the murders, particularly something related to the couple's sexual arousal. Well, listen to this. On Halloween night, 1986, less than three months before the first murder,

Kathy and Gwen attended a costume party. Showing off her twisted sense of humor, Gwen decided to dress as an Alpine Manor patient. Around her wrists and ankles was a set of medical restraints, the kind used to subdue a patient exhibiting behavior harmful to themselves or others. When the couple returned to their apartment, Kathy bound Gwen to the bed with those restraints. Then she produced a cloth, and the two engaged in a sadomasochistic activity, commonly referred to as breath play, a sexual activity in which sexual arousal or gratification is achieved through being deprived or depriving someone of oxygen. I guess that's another one of those sexual arousal patterns.

It is, but in this case, it's pathologically motivated. Now I'm convinced. Gwen and Kathy weren't just engaging in breath play. They were enacting a prototype of their erotophonophilic murder fantasy. How are you so sure? Well, I was getting hung up on the fact that erotophonophiles tend to select their victims based upon sexual attractiveness or by fixating upon one specific quality each victim possesses.

Since these serial killers have overactive imaginations, which manifest into elaborate scenarios, they often fixate upon a vivid idea of the characteristics the victim whose stars in their fantasy should possess. So they have what's called an ideal victim type, a sort of murderous type casting, if you will. Right, that's the thing. Before you told me about this Halloween escapade, it didn't appear that Gwen and Kathy had an IVT. Of course, they only murdered older women, but that was likely out of necessity. Given the urge to kill, these victims were easy targets. Right. They were frail and sickly. Many of them had a history of dementia, regularly having paranoid fantasies,

so they may not have been believed if they did survive. Gwen and Kathy worked in a building where everyone expected these elderly women to leave in a body bag. Death was so much a part of life at Alpine Manor that autopsies were rarely conducted. Yes, but hearing that Gwen dressed up as an Alpine Manor patient during a sexual encounter, which was a clear imitation of the crimes that were committed, changes things. It shows what the fantasy was and exactly who Kathy and Gwen cast as the victim. Even if this fantasy arose because they wanted to kill and their patients were the best chance they had of achieving that, the existence of the fantasy suggests an erotophonophilic mind at work.

Thanks for breaking that down, Vanessa. No problem, Greg. I was confused before, but now everything's falling into place. Using the murder game to select victims was consistent with an erotophonophilic personality in its anticipatory aspect. Killers of this type exhibit a range of predatory behaviors prior to actually committing a murder. In Kathy and Gwen's case, they played games with the patients, like the one where they switched them from room to room, denying them care.

Was there anything else? Yes. They terrorized their victims in more direct ways as well. Some patients reported being attacked or thinking someone was after them. The problem was that no one believed them. But thinking past that, it's right to say that they chose the victims who were easiest to kill. Those patients who were able to fight them off and report the attack taught Gwen and Kathy a lesson. In fact, the murder game never got past the letter M.

They dropped the more rigid structure of the murder game. and decided to kill only patients who couldn't protect themselves. And that brings us back to Kathy's poem, specifically the conclusion. You'll be mine forever in five days. Is that some sort of code? Yes, I'll do my best to explain. After the first murder, Gwen and Kathy became scared that their relationship might dissolve. They wanted to be forever together. And having this murderous secret between them gave one a type of insurance if the other ever decided to leave.

They felt bound together by their lust killings, not only because of the romance, but because breaking up could mean life in prison for both of them. Which would literally lock them together. In light of this murderous pact, they began to talk about the killings in terms of how long they would be together. After they took their first victim, a woman with Alzheimer's named Marguerite Chambers.

It was forever and a day. In early February, when they killed 95-year-old Mertil Luce, It became forever and two days. May Mason, forever in three days. Belle Burckhard, forever and four days. And finally, Edith Cook. That's what forever and five days means. The murder of those five women.

Based on what we know from the evidence recorded in that poem, they killed five women before April of 1987, when their relationship ended and Gwen moved back to Texas. It's interesting that you'd refer to the Texas, of that poem as evidence. That seems a little thin for a murder conviction. You're absolutely right. What's distinct about the Alpine Manor killings, as opposed to many other sprees, is the lack of any hard evidence. In fact, Gwen and Kathy's trials proceeded with little more than Kathy Wood's testimony. Wait a minute, Greg. A moment ago, you were suggesting

that many more murders may have taken place, but if there was no objective evidence, how can we be sure any of them occurred. Kathy Wood was a diagnosed pathological liar who loved to play games with people's lives. So how can we know she didn't make the whole thing up? Well, based upon consistent testimony from others who Kathy and Gwen told about the killings, we can be fairly certain they occurred. But the clock. We'll get to the investigation, the arrests, and the trial next week. The events we've covered in this episode were the story according to Kathy Wood's testimony. by looking at the investigation, we'll see how the lack of physical evidence left the true story shrouded in mystery. But one journalist did go to great lengths to present another version of the story.

You see, Forever in Five Days is also a book. Published in 1992, author Lowell's Smashing True Crime Piece uncovered revelations that would put the entire narrative into question. What did he find? Unfortunately, that's all the time we have for today. but we will definitely get into that next episode. Be sure to tune in for the shocking revelations behind Kathy Wood and Gwendolyn Graham, the Lethal Lovers on next week's episode of Serial Killers. Thanks again for tuning in to Serial Killers.

You can find more episodes of Serial Killers and all other Parcast Originals for free on Spotify. Not only does Spotify already have all of your favorite music, but now Spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite parcast originals, like serial killers for free from your phone, desktop, or smart speaker. To stream serial killers on Spotify, just open the app and type serial killers in the search bar. And don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Parcast and Twitter at Parcast Network. We'll see you next time. Have a killer week.

Serial Killers was created by Max Cutler and is a Parcast Studios original. Executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler, sound designed by Anthem. Anthony Valsick, with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Carly Madden, and Freddie Beckley. This episode of serial killers was written by John T. Gray and stars Greg Paulson and Vanessa Richardson. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile, with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird.

Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Up front payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence.

I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed and there was a full of blood. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 is out now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.