Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén - “The Moors Murderers” - Ian Brady & Myra Hindley

Episode Date: December 11, 2017

When Myra Hindley, an ambitious, yet violent, young woman met Ian Brady, an unemotional man with a twisted mind, their deepening love became a source of tragedy. From 1963 to 1965, the duo acted on their dark desires by murdering children in England. Greg and Vanessa explore the bone-chilling dynamics of serial killer couples like Ian and Myra.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Due to the graphic nature of these killers' crimes, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes dramatizations and discussions of murder and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under 13. People often dream of finding a soulmate, a partner who will bring out their best qualities. Ian Brady and Myra Hindley thought they were soulmates. But instead of bringing out each other's best, their union brought out the very worst. From 1963 to 1965, their toxic relationship nurtured dark and depraved urges that left a community in ruins and five children ranging from 10 to 17 years old dead. Hi, I'm Greg Poulson, and this is serial killers.

Today we're going to take a deep dive into the lives of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, the infamous British couple who terrorized the people of Manchester in the 1960s, taking the lives. of five children. I'm here with my co-host Vanessa Richardson. Vanessa's not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she's done a lot of research for the show. Hi, everyone. We'd like to ask a quick favor. Would you leave a five-star review of serial killers on your favorite podcast directory? It seems so simple, but it really helps us out. And don't forget to subscribe while you're there, because a new episode comes out every Monday. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at Parkast and on Twitter at Parkast Network.

So Greg, who were Ian and Myra before they formed their disastrous partnership? Born Ian Duncan Stewart on January 2nd, 1938, and Glasgow, Scotland, Ian was the illegitimate child of a waitress named Peggy Stewart. He never knew his father and was adopted by Marion John Sloan when he was just four months old. While his mother would visit him for the first 12 years of his life, she eventually married and left Glasgow. It's interesting that Ian was adopted, given the psychological trauma that parental abandonment and adoption can create for a young child. Do you think Ian's abandonment by his mother, Peggy, influenced his transformation into a murderer? Well, while most adopted children grow up to lead normal lives, there is no denying that many adoptees grapple with strong emotions related to their adoption, including grief, anger, and a lack of self-esteem due to parental abandonment.

However, I'm not sure Ian. Ian would qualify as having low self-esteem, given that he spent the majority of his life bragging about his intelligence. Ian did show signs of intelligence at a young age. He was smart enough to get into premier schools, but too lazy to do the necessary work to excel. He didn't get along with others and began to take pride in being an outsider. He enjoyed horror movies, earned the nickname Dracula from his neighbors, and was a chain smoker by age 11.

In other words, he gravitated towards an identity. as a loner. Unfortunately, Ian was consumed by even darker urges than chain smoking. His family said that even at a young age, he had a tendency to act out violently, and he was already interested in murder. A warning for our listeners, this next description contains animal abuse. At the age of 10, Ian threw a cat off an apartment building. He enjoyed hearing the cat yowl with fear as it fell to its death.

His neighbor, Frank Flanagan, also recalled an example. occasion where Ian buried a cat alive to see how long it would live. Luckily, Ian's neighbors freed and saved the cat. But what kind of child would torture cats? Well, a child exhibiting what psychiatrists call callous and unemotional traits. Calous children feel no remorse for their violent or even murderous behavior, and they are far more likely to become psychopaths as adults. So given how he behaved as a child and his obvious lack of remorse, was it inevitable that Ian would develop into a psychopathic killer? Well, not necessarily. Callous children are motivated by rewards, not by punishment. Researchers now focus on using a reward system to persuade potentially

psychopathic children that it's worth it to become law-abiding citizens. But obviously, in the late 1940s and 50s, there was no such treatment for children like Ian. And so his dark childhood urges were left unchecked. And it wouldn't be long before the focus of Ian's dark fantasies about torture and murder shifted from animals to people. At the age of 14 or 15, Ian had a mental breakdown. He began suffering from terrifying hallucinations. He saw some sort of green vision that he later described as the face of death. Now, if Ian was seeing visions, does that mean he was suffering from mental illness?

It's possible, especially considering the fact that a psychiatrist would later diagnose him with paranoid schizophrenia. For boys, symptoms of schizophrenia generally begin to, to appear when they're in their mid to late teens. Since Ian began seeing visions in his mid-teens, this could potentially indicate the onset of schizophrenia. Ian's worrisome behavior continued into his teenage years. He began stealing, though the police eventually caught him. In 1954, a Glasgow judge ordered Ian to leave Glasgow

and live with his biological mother, Peggy, in Manchester. Ian's exile to Manchester did little to improve his mental state. his sense of isolation only increased. He became fascinated with disturbing books like Hitler's Mind Kampf or the Marquis de Sade's 's 120 days of Sodom. None of this is book club material. The Marquis de Sade is the godfather, so to speak, of sadism. It's due to his name and his body of work that we even have the term.

He was famous for his sexually violent fantasies. Given that Ian would eventually reveal his own fantasies of violent rape and murder, It's not surprising that he would identify with the Marquis de Saad. In Ian's mind, the Marquis' writings legitimized his disturbing urges to commit violence and rape. Well, that makes sense. But why was Ian also obsessed with Hitler and the Nazis? Ian recognized that he wasn't like normal people. In Hitler and other Nazi leaders, Ian found a group of people that was just like him.

Callous, unemotional, and willing to commit violence and murder without remorse. Just like the Marquis de Saad, Hitler legitimized Ian's darkest desires. Now, what about Myra Hindley? Was she a callous child like Ian? Myra was far more social and personable than Ian. Unlike Ian, Myra didn't grow up torturing animals. In fact, Myra Hindley's biographer, Gene Ritchie, describes Myra's upbringing as relatively happy. She believes that Myra's childhood wasn't that different from other children growing up in the 1950s. Myra Hindley was born in the summer of 1942 to working-class parents in Manchester, England.

Myra's father was distant and a strict disciplinarian, but her mother and grandmother were loving parental figures who doted on Myra. However, Myra lived with her grandmother down the street from her parents while attending school. Does that mean she may have struggled like Ian did with abandonment? Unlikely, Myra's grandmother's house was only a few doors down from her parents' house. Even after moving in with her loving grandmother, Myra could visit the rest of her family whenever she wanted. Unlike Ian, who didn't care about anyone, Mara was at least protective of her younger sister. But if Myra had a fairly normal childhood, what could have caused her to fall under the sway of a sadistic killer like Ian Brady?

Well, a psychiatrist who analyzed Myra's unpublished autobiography, noted that despite Myra's ostensibly normal childhood, she had an abnormally strong, charismatic and hardened personality. She was someone who didn't shy away from violence. She was also someone who saw herself as destined to do big things with her life. She was a leader, better than the other kids. This inflated sense of self-importance may have especially left her susceptible to Ian, since he had a similarly grandiose view of himself and his role in the world.

Myra may have had a high opinion of herself, but her confidence was shaken by a tragic event that occurred when Myra was 16. years old. Myra was very close to a 13-year-old boy, she often babysat for, named Michael Higgins. She viewed him almost like a brother. Michael asked Myra to go swimming with him at a nearby reservoir, but she decided to hang out with other friends. Michael drowned, and Myra blamed herself for not going with him. She was a good swimmer. Maybe she could have saved him. For someone like Myra, who viewed herself as a leader and someone with a special destiny, her failure to protect and save a close friend like Michael could have undermined her self-esteem and mentally destabilized her.

Well, that would make sense, since Myra coped with Michael's death by immersing herself in Catholicism. She had been baptized Catholic, but it wasn't until after Michael's death that she became religious. She received her first communion in November of 1958. Later that same year, Myra fell in love and got engaged to a man named Ronnie Sinclair, but eventually called the engagement off. She insisted she couldn't marry Ronnie because he was too ordinary. This is another example of Myra's conviction that she had a special destiny. An extraordinary person like Myra couldn't marry an ordinary man like Ronnie.

Soon enough, Myra managed to find a boyfriend who was as far from ordinary as she could get. When 18-year-old Myra met 23-year-old Ian in 1961, it would mark the greatest turning point in her life. Within two years, Ian would transform Myra from an old woman. ordinary, charismatic young woman into a sadistic killer. Our story will continue in a moment after a brief message. And now, back to our story. In the summer of 1961, 18-year-old Myra Hindley took a typing job at Millward's Chemical Distribution Company.

Not long after, 23-year-old Ian joined Millwards in a bookkeeping position, and Myra immediately became infatuated with him. Myra wrote extensively about her crush on Ian in her diary. Quote, I hope he loves me and will marry me someday. End quote. It's safe to say that her infatuation with him bordered on obsession. She watched him for months like a predator with its prey, studied him, really.

There was a darkness to Ian, even from a distance. But to Myra, he was incredibly cool and she found herself irresistibly drawn to him. Where others saw an uninspired, aloof rebel, Myra saw brilliance. Myra's co-workers shied away from Ian whenever he had an explosive outburst over a lost horse race, but Myra wasn't deterred.

She began trying to get his attention, but to no avail. Her greetings went ignored. So she did everything she could to get his attention. She dyed her hair platinum blonde in hopes that he would notice. She began stalking him, finding excuses to stroll past his house.

Ian finally took notice of Myra after she sat next to him at lunch, while reading the works of 18th century English poet William Wordsworth. Ian had never read Wordsworth and was impressed that Myra was reading the poet. By showing him that she was also an aspiring intellectual, Myra piqued Ian's interest. At the office Christmas party, Ian made a move. He asked Myra to dance.

This dance would mark the beginning of a fusion that would in just a few short years become atomic. Yet even their first dates showed a dark and malicious potential. of the two budding lovers. On their first date, they saw a movie. Nothing out of the ordinary there, except Ian took her to see the Nuremberg trials. They listened to music together, sure,

but it was Hitler's marching songs. And when they started to plan a future together, Ian and Myra spent most of their time dreaming about robbing banks. And as their relationship turned sexual, Ian began to reveal his enjoyment of sadism. Many years later, Myra recounted their first story, sexual encounter, which took place after a night spent arguing about religion. She invited him in after walking home together from a movie, and as things heated up, he made it very clear how much

he liked violence in the bedroom. While Myra's descriptions of their sexual relationship varied over her years in prison, one thing was clear. Ian had no qualms about being a brutal lover. Their first night together, Myra left covered in marks from where he'd bitten her, and as time went on, Ian introduced elements of BDSM in the bedroom and took to making pornographic recordings of their time together. While plenty of healthy normal people like to engage in BDSM, in Ian's case, his sexual fetishes were another sign of his dark, violent desires. Myra's first time with Ian was anything but pleasant, but she couldn't bring herself to end the relationship. Ian was testing Myra's boundaries, seeing how many lines he could get her to cross. As their relationship continued, Ian persuaded Myra to let him photograph her naked and record them in sexual situations.

Myra changed both in personality and appearance, reinventing herself as the epitome of the Aryan German woman that she believed Ian desired. If Ian wanted it or loved it, Myra was happy to entertain it. Myra also enabled Ian. No matter what Ian wanted, Mara would go and get it for him. Whether it was bus tickets, cigarettes, or eventually illegal gum. But Ian had something truly evil he wanted Myra to do for him. Once Ian felt that he could trust her, their conversations began to change. They no longer talked about fake robberies.

Instead, Ian began sharing his desire to commit the perfect murder with Myra. Ian's confession did nothing to abate Myra's love for him. It almost makes me wonder if Myra had a form of parapheria known as hybristophilia. We've discussed this phenomenon before, but could you remind our listeners? A parapheria is a sort of sexual perversion or deviation, and hybristophilia is when a person achieves sexual pleasure by virtue of a violent partner. But it's not just physical violence that can spark this in someone. You could boil it down to being fueled by disrespect. There are instances when someone gains pleasure from dishonesty or betrayal.

The act of being lied to and or cheated on is arousing. Hybristophilia is most often attributed to someone who becomes aroused, and gains pleasure from a person who has committed rape or murder. In layman's terms, it's referred to as Bonnie and Clyde syndrome. So Myra's attraction to Ian made her the perfect accomplice. Exactly. But to truly understand Myra and Ian's dynamic, we need to look at the different types of murdering pairs

criminal psychologists have outlined. What kind of classifications are we looking at here? Okay, let's go through them. The first type of serial killer pair is an equally dominant team. With these people, you have two parties who gain satisfaction from killing and are both equally willing participants. It still needs to be said that the woman in this pairing rarely does the actual murdering and or torture. They're more often the one aiding in the capture or restraining of the victim.

Isn't it possible for Ian and Myra to be classified as such? Ian's accounts of their time together certainly highlight Myra as a willing participant. True. And given how Myra enabled Ian's fantasies to become reality, it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. But let's look at the other classifications first. The next one is the extended family or group. Pretty straightforward. With this classification, you have groups ranging from actual families to cults like the Manson family.

Well, that category doesn't sound like it applies to our killer couple. Right, which is why I saved the best for last. The dominant submissive partnership. I assume this refers to a relationship where one member of the pair takes the lead in the killings. That's right. According to prison psychologist Al Carlyle, couples who murder together often consist of of a dominant and submissive partner. Criminally, the dominant submissive pair

each play a key role in enabling each other. The dominant partner is dependent on the assistance of the submissive partner, who will frequently bait and lure victims for the more obviously predatory dominant partner. The submissive partner doesn't have to be an active participant in the physical aspects, but it's likely that the submissive partner

finds enjoyment in watching. The submissive partner is dependent on the approval and affection of the dominant partner, and is willing to do anything to maintain the relationship. But how does a serial killer find the submissive accomplice? A serial killer trolling for an accomplice will test a potential partner's boundaries to see if they found a kindred spirit. We can see from the way Ian slowly introduced taboo books, sadistic sexual activities,

and criminal fantasies into Myra's life, that he was testing her willingness to cross moral boundaries. And by progressing slowly to ever more loathsome fantasies, Ian was able to indoctrinate Myra into his worldview. Exactly. Ian wanted to see how far Myra would go to be with him. And Myra soon made it clear she would do anything to be with Ian. Even commit murder.

As stated earlier, in 1963, about a year into their relationship and nearly two years after they found themselves working together, Ian expressed to Myra his yearning to commit the perfect murder. In order to do that, he was going to need her help. The plan was simple. She would drive a van while he followed close behind on his signature bad boy motorcycle. After he picked the victim, he would flash his headlights so that Myra would pull over and coerce the chosen victim into her van. Once the victim was in the van, Myra would drive her out to an agreed-upon location where Ian would meet them.

And Ian had a perfect location in mind. Since he was a teenager, Ian had been having those hazy green visions of death in the wilderness. he wanted to fulfill his hallucinations of death by killing out on the uninhabited moors. For our American listeners, the moors are swaths of low-lying wasteland covered in peat moss and Heather. On the night of July 12, 1963, Myra drove down to Gorton Lane in her van. Ian followed behind on his motorcycle. They were looking for their first victim. Ian soon spotted a little girl, only seven or eight years old who he wanted to murder.

He flashed his headlights. But Myra didn't stop until they passed the girl. Ian demanded to know why Myra ignored his signal. She explained that the girl was Marie Ruck, a neighbor of her mother's. The fact that Marie was both quite young and familiar to Myra saved her life that night. But Ian wasn't going to give up. They continued to drive in tandem. And this time when Ian gave the signal, Myra stopped.

Myra found herself pulling up next to 16-year-old Pauline Rehn. coincidentally, Myra also knew Pauline. The girl was a friend of Myra's younger sister, Maureen. But Myra's familiarity with Pauline didn't save the teenager. Maybe Myra didn't object because Pauline was older. Maybe Myra was worried that she had angered Ian by vetoing Marie Ruck. Whatever the reason, Myra wasn't willing to save Pauline from Ian. Pauline was heading to a school dance, so Myra offered her ride.

After Pauline got in the van, Myra asked Pauline for help locating an expensive glove of hers that she had lost out on the Saddleworth Moor. Pauline was more than willing to take the detour to help her friend's sister. Shortly after they arrived at the Saddleworth Moor, Ian joined them. Myra explained to Pauline that Ian was her boyfriend and he was going to help them find her missing glove. Ian led Pauline further away on the Moor and Myra stayed behind in the van. For 30 minutes there was no sign of Ian or Pauline. And for those 30 minutes, there was no sign of Ian or Pauline. minutes, Myra did nothing but wait. When Ian returned, he had Myra accompany him onto the moor, where Pauline Reed was laid out,

throat cut, and clothing undone and disheveled. Pauline wasn't quite dead, so Ian had Myra stay with her while he fetched the shovel he needed to bury her. Years later, Myra would confess that while Eidon didn't explicitly tell her right then and there that he sexually assaulted Pauline, she was popping. that's exactly what he'd done. And yet, she did nothing. Myra was so dependent on her relationship with Ian that she didn't care that he had just raped and murdered her little sister's friend. The couple buried Pauline on the Moor, where she would remain unfound for over 20 years.

Then Ian and Myra loaded Ian's motorcycle into the van and drove home. On their way back into town, they drove past Pauline's mother and brother, scouring the streets for the 16-year-old. year old. But Ian and Myra knew that search was in vain. The sleepy streets of Manchester were no longer safe. Just a few months later, the couple found their next victim. In November of 1963, it was an ordinary fall night in Manchester as 12-year-old John Kilbride worked in a market to earn some pocket change. He was a cheerful boy, always whistling his favorite tunes on his walks home. Myra approached the boy, asking for some help carrying some boxes to her, car. That was the last time he was seen.

Once again, Myro was responsible for luring in the victim. Yes. John's mother would later disclose that she taught him to be wary of men he didn't know, but she never once thought the same warning should be extended to women. It makes sense. As recently as 1998, an FBI profiler was allegedly quoting at a conference as saying, there are no female serial killers. In 1963, Manchester, the idea that a seemingly friendly young woman like Myra would prey on and murder young boys and girls was untenable. If it weren't for Myra's actions, her ability to gain the trust of her victims, it's possible none of them would have ended up on the moor. After Myra lured 12-year-old John into her

car, they drove to Saddleworth Moor, where Ian sexually assaulted and strangled the young boy. The killers burned John's clothes, took photographs of the boy's body, and then buried him on the more at a sight the couple had picked out in advance. They even took a photo of Myra posing on top of John's grave with her puppy. This photo would help disprove Myra's claim in her unpublished autobiography that Ian forced her to take part in the killings. It was very apparent in these grisly memorial photos that she enjoyed mocking the memory of the children they murdered. Seven months after murdering John Kilbride, Ian and Myra struck again. They spotted 12-year-old Keith Bennett, walking to his grandmother's house. He never made it to his destination.

Ian and Myra lured Keith into their car and drove him out to Saddleworth Moore. Just like with John Kilbride seven months before, Ian sexually assaulted and strangled Keith Bennett. At this point, Ian and Myra's murders were carefully planned and executed. With the exception of their photographs, they were meticulous about avoiding witnesses and disposing of evidence. But even After murdering three children, Ian's perverted desires couldn't be satiated. His monstrous need to rape and murder young boys and girls only increased. With Myra by his side as his enabler and procurer of young children, Ian began to grow increasingly confident in his ability to kill and get away with it. Our story will continue in a moment right after the break.

Now, our story continues. In September of 1964, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley began inviting over an 11-year-old neighbor named Patricia Ann Hodges. Patricia had six siblings, and the family was, according to Myra's account, not well-off enough to afford a television. Myra and Ian gave Patricia their undivided attention when she visited their home, offering the 11-year-old glass after glass of wine. Patricia would frequently have up to four glasses of wine on her visits, with the couple, and their visits weren't confined to the house. Ian and Myra drove Patricia out to Saddleworth Moor. Yet despite the fact that Ian had raped and murdered every other child that the couple had

taken to Saddleworth Moore, Ian did not lead Patricia to her death on that first trip to the Moore. The threesome spent the trip chatting and drinking wine. After an evening spent carousing, Ian and Myra returned Patricia safely home. The question is why? Patricia lived only two doors down from the couple. Maybe they thought it would be too suspicious if they killed her on that initial trip. But Ian and Myra didn't stop inviting Patricia over after that initial uneventful trip to the Moor. They continued spending time with the young girl,

and the couple began taking Patricia out to Saddleworth More with them several times a week. Patricia even accompanied the couple on walks across the Moor, and they walked right past the graves of Ian and Myrower. Myron's victims, children the same age as Patricia. For reasons known only to the killers, Patricia did not join the killer's other victims in an unmarked grave on the moor. Yet Ian's and Myra's behavior grew increasingly suspicious. They took photographs of Patricia in their home, which they carefully saved. They let Patricia see them bringing bags of soil back from the moor. And most chillingly of all, they asked Patricia to read aloud a newspaper account about the

search for their 12-year-old victim, John Kilbride. Patricia had no idea that the couple was secretly recording her, creating yet another grisly momento of their killings. This pattern of behavior is remarkably different from what we've already seen of Ian and Myra. With their first three killings, the pair were careful to avoid witnesses and repeated encounters with their victims. And while their first victim, Pauline Reed, was also a neighbor, Ian and Myra did not spend time befriending her before taking her

to the moor in murdering her. So why the sudden change in behavior? Maybe Myra was fond of the girl, though I doubt Ian had any true affection for the child. After all, Ian thought people were maggots, children included. Maybe Ian had grown tired of his normal way of killing children. Maybe he wanted to up the ante on his own sadism by befriending and grooming a young girl before killing her. But by spending months hanging out with Patricia, Myra and Ian were drawing attention to themselves.

Patricia's family knew she spent time with the couple. There was no easy way for them to kill the little girl without casting suspicion on themselves. Maybe so, but by the fall of 1964, Ian had grown cocky. He thought he could get away with anything. And as the months ticked by after 12-year-old Keith's murder in the summer of 1964, Ian's need to kill again only grew stronger. He couldn't contain his bloodlust for long. As fall turned to winter, 11-year-old Patricia had no idea that Ian and Myra were getting ready for their next kill.

On Christmas Eve, Patricia talked her mother into letting her spend the evening with the couple. It was 11.30 p.m. when Myra drove the child down the dark, abandoned road to Saddleworth More. But something was different that night. Myra wasn't planning to take Patricia home. She told Patricia she could spend the entire night at Saddleworth More. Shockingly, Myra and Ian did not kill Patricia that night. And Myra dropped Patricia off at her home at 1.30 in the morning. It was Christmas Day.

But why didn't the kill a couple strike? Myra later claimed they genuinely liked the girl and felt sorry for her. But I doubt this is what saved young Patricia's life. More likely, Ian finally realized just what a huge risk he would be taking if he killed a neighbor whose mother knew she was with them. But Ian couldn't wait any longer. After letting Patricia live, he needed a new victim. The day after Christmas, Ian and Myra found another child.

The two killers were about to commit their most notoriously sadistic murder. Thank you for joining us on part one of our exploration of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. Join us next week as we continue to discover and discuss the truly despicable actions of this serial killer couple. We have much more to learn about the inner workings of the minds of both Ian and Myra, and their four other young victims. While their killing spree may have only lasted a few short years, the saga of these two lovers spans multiple decades, and to this day mystifies and haunts the families of their young victims

and the Manchester community as a whole. Come back next week as we take a look into some of the biggest questions surrounding the horrors that unfolded in Manchester half a century ago and learn how Ian and Myra took some of the most sought-after answers with them to their graves. Thanks again for tuning in to serial killers. If you want to listen to any previous episodes of serial killers, you can find them on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, SoundCloud, Stitcher, and Spotify,

or in our website, parcast.com, spelled P-A-R-C-C-A-S-T dot com. If you like what you hear, please leave a five-star review or tell us what you think on social media. We're on Facebook and Instagram as at Parcast and Twitter at Parcast Network. It seems simple, but it really helps our show. Join us next Monday as we continue delving into the twisted psyches of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. Have a killer week. Serial Killers was created by Max Cutler and developed by Ron Cutler.

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