Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Death Stranding 2: On The Beach Spoilercast - Kinda Funny Gamescast

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

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What's up everybody? Welcome to the Kind of Funny Games cast for Wednesday, July 9th, 2025. I'm one of your host, Greg Miller, alongside Forbes 30 under 30, AKA New York Game Awards nominated, aka fighting game Poppy Blessing at E.O. Yee, Jr. Good day, Greg. How is the rematch obsession? Oh, it's going great. It's nonstop. It's one of those things where as I'm playing it, I've hit the point now where I know I'm doing something

unhealthy. I'm like, oh man, I've been doing so much of this that now kind of feels gross, but I'm not going to stop. Okay, good, I like that. Of course you know him as the taste maker. It's Roger Pekorny. Hello, Roger. Hi, Greg, you own this Ovala train? No, I heard you and Joey

talking about it. And now we're going to do, we're already breaking the fourth wall, just looking at each other. Yeah, yeah, we're going to look at each other. So is it odd walla, like the juices I get at the grocery store? Excuse me? You said odd walla? Is it odd walla? Is it odd walla? He's fuck with this. Yeah, okay. There's no way.

Now this might be a bit. Now this might be. Adwala? O.D. Walla. Odd walla. What's up of juice is it? Is it like an animal's juice? It's all sorts of juices.

I thought maybe an animal's juice. They're a very popular juice and protein shake brand over there. Jeremy, you know what I'm talking about. You ever seen an adwala? Yeah, this is fake. No. See, you're like the react. I've seen the water bottle.

Yeah, I see it. It aud fills odd walla right there. I love that the reaction Roger's having. Oh, I watched a podcast about odd walla. Literally yesterday. Oh my God. What does it even mean? I watch a podcast about food, everybody, and like, yeah.

How did you not know immediately what I'm talking about it? It's old, dude. It's an old brand that came back, is what they're saying. Odd Walla. When did it go away? A while ago. O'Wala is the new drink too many, I poop most of it. What?

It's a water bottle brand, and I have one, and blessing. I was telling blessing about it because everyone at the office kind of has one. Joey. Everybody at the office. Me. Everyone that matters. Three people at the office. I'm all wallow. And then Blessing looked at me and he was like, that's a fake thing.

You're making, you're making a joke. Like, no one has this thing. And then I said, turn around. Like, three people had a wallow. It was, like, embarrassed holding it. I heard you talking about it and I was confused because, again, I just think that it was the juice. And then I heard there being something where you're saying the cool kids switch lids. Yes.

You can switch. But Joey was like, they're switching lids at the store. But that violets, the warranty. And I was like, what are you talking about? Yeah. I mean, it's exactly what are you. What are the two modes, Roger? It has the little lip right there.

The lip right there, if you open it up, it has a straw, and it also has the chug jug right there. So you can sip and you can chug, and it's patented. This strikes me a lot like the Stanley. Yeah, but it's better than the Stanley. It's just like, this is like a fad. I'm not part of this fad. I'm not going to be a part of this fad. Jerica, are you part of this fad?

Yeah. No, but I did look at water bottles recently. I saw those online, but I just like a more, I need more of a spout for my straw. Like, I need to be able to reach it better. And I feel like that's harder to drink out of. I could be wrong. You should go to your local dick sporting goods and start sipping out of a bunch of wallas. Yeah, you'll never know.

You'll never know. Jerica, of course, is from JK Games, the podcast and is joining us because, of course, Jericho joined us on the one, the only, the Death Stranding 2 on the Beach Review. Welcome back, Jericho. Yeah, I'm so glad to finally talk about what's going on in this day. That's right, everybody. I can't wait to do this, y'all. If you didn't see what you clicked on, this is our Death Stranding 2 on the Beach, spoiler cast.

all of us have beaten it. Even Roger, who claimed he wasn't going to for the spoiler cast. I was trying not to. You freaked it. I freaked it. So if people don't know, which is impossible, if they don't know, how long did you stream death stream? Oh boy, I think it's 83 hours we were live technically.

Yeah, so 83 hours we were live. A lot of that was eating, a lot of that was sleeping. But Mike and I got through a good portion of the game. I think we had four hours left, four to five hours left by the time we finished that big marathon stream where, of course, Mike was on a treadmill the entire time. The entire time. Most of the time. as I was walking.

As San Porter Bridges walked, of course, Mike walked as well. And then we did two extra streams after that and we beat the game. So yeah, I've finally beaten the game. Do you feel like you beat it in the way you wanted to beat it? Because, again, there was this conversation where you guys weren't in the production meeting or were, and I said I'm putting them on the spoiler cast. And then during the stream, you kept saying, I'm sorry, Greg, I'm not going to make it. I'm not going to make it.

I don't want to rush this. Yeah. No, I definitely have not beaten the game in the way that I want to. I mean, ideally, I would just be alone in my house, right? I'd be playing the game, but I have processed enough of that story. I have opinions, I have thoughts, I need to talk about this game somewhere. And also, I've restarted the game by myself. I'm a PS5, so I'm going to replay that game as well.

So I'm about like eight hours already on my PS5 save at home. So, yeah, I'm deep in the death training, and I feel excited to talk to you guys about it. Well, I'm excited to talk to all three of you about it, because this is the kind of funny games cast, each and every weekday we come together to talk about the biggest topics and video games. Whether they be reviews, previews, spoiler cast, or just conversations we need to have.

We have them all right here on Twitch.tv.tv.com slash of funny games, YouTube.com slash kind of funny games and podcast services around the globe. Of course, special shout out to the one of the only. Big Kev Dog, Kevin Coelho. Games Daily, cursed with multiple blue screens in the main studio, the main brain of the studio. Kevin immediately got us here into the emergency lifeboat.

We are in the lem. It's an Apollo 13 reference. for you over here in the lab doing Kind of Funny Gamescast to make sure you get your content. Good job, Kevin. Throw up your gold stars. Everybody in the Twitch chat. Of course, if you're watching live, you have a special job. Head over to YouTube.com slash

Kind of Funny Games. There you can super chat. Your questions, your thoughts, your opinions, your reviews of Death Stranding, two on the beach so we can spoil the shit out of them on this very episode. If you want to go even further, of course, pick up that kind of funny membership.

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Kind of Funny Games Daily was plagued by Gremlins, But it was also a great conversation about Eldon Ring, Night Ring, dominating the sales chart. After this Blessing and Joey are streaming some games. If you're a kind of funny member, today's Greg Way is 19 minutes on my second viewing of Superman. This one was for me, all right? First one was for work, tomorrow's date night, and then, of course, Friday is me and Tim's date day. Last night was just about me. I tell you about the date I took myself on.

And shout out to all the kind of funny best friends who stopped me. I believe it was Kevin, not Kevin who works here. Kevin last night who put his photo up on the subreddit. I think your name was Kevin, but I met a lot of kind of funny best friends last night. Who would have thought, fish in a barrel at a Superman show? A lot of kind of... You get popcorn this time? Oh, I got so much popcorn.

Yeah, I fucked you on that one. Well, not you. The Kabuki did. My anger is directed at the Kabuki in the first one. Okay? But it was a work event. It's different. Yeah. Thank you to our Patreon producers, Delaney, the Somme, Twining. Carl Jacobs and Omega Buster. Today, we're about to you by Shady Ray's,

but we'll tell you about that later. For now, let's begin the show with what is in Forever Will, be the topic of the show. Tots, Tots, Tots, Tats, Tats, Tats, Tats. Death Stranding 2 on the beach came out June 26, 20, 25. Has a 90 on Metacritic. Outrageous. I mean, congratulations to Kajem and the team, obviously, but like, I never would have predicted that, you know, based on death training one and how, did you like it, did you not like it? It's a walking simulator. It's this, that's the other. Damn, that's a nice thing. I want to start with the folks who were on the review. So, Roger, you stay soft.

for a second. Finally. Jerica, how much Death Stranding 2 have you played since you were last there?

Definitely 20 more hours. 20 more hours. I did something you, 20 more hours, yeah. I finally paused and get to something else. But yeah,

I went back like the middle of the game save. I went back to an old save. So just so I can like start like doing more missions for other preppers and build all the roads. So it's easier to get around.

Towards the end of the story, I was sort of struggling because I quit building. And the network went down, you know, the week before launch. So, like, I was very lacking in things to help me get to my destination. So went back a save so I can enjoy all this things. So two weeks later, 20 hours later, where are you now? And when people ask you, how did you like that training to? I'm still super high on it.

If anything, I've come across more storylines with different preppers, finish out the pizza guys mission. And, you know, that's definitely a highlight of the story was that side quest. There's something else we might get to later that I wonder how the payoff is for that. It involves a huge BT in the middle of a lake. Some fishermen. I'm excited to get to that. But still high on it.

I'm still finding a lot of different upgrades that I haven't used, like the ramp. To shoot you across. Yeah. and jump off of that thing is amazing. I didn't get to really utilize that before doing the review. So yeah, there's a lot more in this game. And I can't wait to see if there's something I've missed. Blessing, talk to me.

Two weeks later, where are you when you've been marinating on death straining two on the beach? I played zero hours more of death training two since the review. It's a tough thing. And this is kind of the potion poll for me when I review games is that like once I finish a game, it's really, really tough for me to go back just to. like clean shit up right like that's like open world type stuff or like you know finishing off like the quest and dangling stuff that I have to um finish off as far as side activities I'm so in for the story I'm still in for the main content and like I'll do side stuff when I'm in it but as soon

I roll credits I'm on to the next thing and so I've been playing other games I've been like I reviewed donkey Kong and Tony Hawk and other stuff uh since uh we reviewed death training too but like I'm still in the same place as far as when like how I feel when I think back to it and when I like you know marinate in my emotions, marinate in my feelings. Like, I'm still super high on that game as far as where it took us, where it ended,

what it does with its characters, how I think it does really well by various character arcs, and also how it just helps everything that it established in the first death training. Like, I'm still very high. What about you, Greg? Oh, no, no, you're not off to hook that quickly.

Because my question would be this. Do you find yourself coming back to it? When your mind wanders, when you think about stuff you've played recently. It's an interesting one of sometimes, you know, we miss that zeitgeist because we're the tip of the sword on it, where you play the game, you reviewed the game, and it's unleashed on the world kind of thing.

Have you found yourself your mind wandering back to moments from Death Stranding 2? Or have you just been straight on to the other one? You kind of forgot all about it until I said there's a spoiler cast today. I think so, yeah. Like, I think it's one of those interesting ones where I look at Death Training 2 as, you know, one of the, I guess, like, had a lot of, games of the year when we think about the big games that come out every year

and it is like, all right, we're looking forward to Ghost or we're looking forward to Starfield, we're looking for, like what are the big names of games? Destrating, too, for me, in this first half of the year, I'd say it's probably the biggest one that I've, I was most looking forward to and it's funny because I look at

my game of the year list so far for 2025, and I'm so happy with how bizarre, like, my game of the year list is as far as like... Is this on there? Yes, oh, 1,000%. It's like my number two or three, right? Like, I forget what order I have them in, but blueprints, clear, obscure, and death reading two are my top three for the year so far.

And for me, it's indicative of this being a year of just, like, weird and fresh, and weird and fresh ideas and how much that's kind of spearheaded what I've been gravitating towards this year. And so, like, I, for me, when I think back to Destrating 2, I kind of think of it as, like, the AAA version of what I've been flocking to for games this year. but when I'm thinking about specific moments, right? Like, I'm thinking a lot about the, to get into the spoiler cast to, I'm going to say spoilers.

You should have known everybody. Yeah, you should have beaten the game by now if you're. Yeah. The various Neil moments and Neil cut scenes of the game are ones that I think back too often just as far as like how interesting and well-produced and high, like, you know, choreographed they are and how much I love just like those boss fights compared to the ones that we had in like the further Mads-Mickleson segment. in the first Death Stranding.

I think back to the tomorrow cutscene where you first kind of meet her and then you're searching for her and you had like kind of this mellow piano music playing as they're following her footsteps and looking for her. And that was my favorite mission during the preview that I did back when we went to Kojima Productions. And like the cutscene that follows that mission of her

just whooping ass to the fucking sickest EDM music. I'm like, man, that's fucking sick, right? But I can jump in because this is something I wouldn't want to say on the actual review. That was the first time where I paused it and I said, Tim, come over here and I just put the headset on him and let him. The music was awesome, but I was like, you got it. I know this is Tim's shit. I know he won't get here back. Exactly. But I think one of the things I think about the most when it comes to Dest Raining 2 are just how thematically, like, it is, it's about grief. And there's

been a lot of media that we've had, especially video games about grief in the last year, especially when I referenced clear, obscure before. But it being about losing a child and like, the whole game kind of marinating in Sam's feelings and Sam, you know, kind of having this connection and having like the BT version of Lou existing, but also kind of as an illusion and like how much the game kind of comes back to that. And like, I, like, it's been one that I think that theme I've been kind of sitting with and ficking back to just as far as something that I don't see as often in video games. Obviously we see grief, but it being about a lost child.

I don't know. I feel like this game found an interesting way to go about it in a way that is unexpected. Like, one of the conversations I found really interesting thinking back to the preview event that we went to was after day one, you know, we all experienced that moment in I think it was chapter three, right? We're maybe end of chapter two where, you know, Lou gets quote unquote taken out by the bad guys. And I was at the bar with like, I think it was Dan Riker, it was Marcus from GameSpot. and we were having the conversation of like, yo, what happened? I was like, did they shoot the baby? Like, what the fuck happened to the baby?

And nobody wanted to just admit that they took out a baby, that they straight up just like, you know, like had this moment of, oh shit, all right, cool, this is a thing, this is a story about you've lost it, baby, what do you do with that? And I don't know.

I feel like it was just a very bold, very, like, non-typical choice that you have in a video game story to kind of set off the events here And so I'm excited to talk to y'all more about that. And like, what the fuck are they, like, what the fuck are they talking about the core of this video game? Roger, what the fuck are they talking about the core of this video game? Oh, man. Deadwife themes, Dead Baby themes.

Themes of Dead Wives of Dead Baby. No, yeah. The themes are dead baby. I'm right with there with you, Bless. I think I'm in the middle of kind of still digesting a lot of the themes and a lot of the things that Kojima has had to say throughout this game. And I actually had a big moment today of kind of coming to terms with, what I thought was a criticism of the game. Oh, interesting.

And now it's become kind of a huge positive of it. And that was in the first game, you are so focused. You have this central motivation to get to the end of the United States to connect the East Coast and the West Coast. And that is to find your sister, right? You don't necessarily have that here in this game, right? At least in the middle of the whole story, right? It's just kind of like, oh, you have to do it because, you know, we have to kind of get the chiral network together. and, you know, we have to stop this looming threat of, I guess, violence and guns from Higgs, right?

It's less focused as it is in Death Stranding 1, or at least it is less tangible. And then I started to realize that that's kind of the point here, right, is that Sam is going through this horrible moment of grief, and he doesn't have that central thing to connect him, but this is the only thing that actually gets him out of bed in the morning. is the only thing that actually gets him to not be drinking all day and thinking about Lou is to just keep his keep on going and put one foot in front of the other. And that was a big, literally, I woke up this morning,

I'm driving to the gym and I was thinking about that criticism and then I was like, holy shit, that's a positive right there. That's actually like a conscious decision that I think that Kojima has built into this game is having this game very front-loaded and then having all the reveals and the twists happen at the very ending and kind of having that middle part very spark. So yeah, I'm very much there of like I'm learning a lot of things.

I'm thinking about a lot of things. I'm trying to connect all the dots in my second playthrough. But yeah, I very much am enjoying my second playthrough. And I think that this is, if I were to talk about generally speaking, I know we're talking about spoilers, but like if I like this one comparatively to death training one or two, which one do I like more? I think I liked one more just because it was such a unique experience. And it was something that I had never experienced before in a video game. two is derivative on purpose, right?

It's a sequel, and it does a lot of stuff better in terms of gameplay. But I do like the story, I think, as a whole in one more. But that can also change, I think, as I go through my second playthrough. But yeah, that was a big aha moment for me today. I think it's interesting. You've said a lot of stuff there. I want to double back to and get on, but I like this Death Stranding 1 versus Death Stranding 2 conversation.

Because I think when I reviewed Death Stranding for Kind of Funny, and we talked about it, and it was, you know, at the time, time leading into that it was what is death stranding what is this game going to be x y z blah blah blah like over the years death stranding has just become norman reedis climbing the mountain with lou on his chest right and that connection between them and of course getting to the end and him saying our full name and that's what i remember death straining being and so for death stranding two i like death training two more than i like death training one i think death straining two will stick with me longer than Death Stranding 1 did

narratively because I was very much jumped into Death Stranding 2 and totally had forgotten anything about it. This speaks, I think, to what was of some of my criticisms in the review, right, of Norman Redis and the way he's used in Death Stranding 1 and 2, I can never get over the fact that that's just Norman Redis.

Like, I'm looking at Darrell from the Walking Dead. That's just Norman Rees being Norman Redis, Norman Rees, Norman. Like, he's not San Porter Bridges, like I will say one out of 10 times other, every other else it's going to be. Norman Reuters, right? And so when it's like, oh, he had a wife, I'm like, I don't know if I can remember that from that. I'm reading the summary in the beginning.

It's like, and his sister, I was like, is that the woman on the beach? Like, I read like, the narrative of what Death Stranding was fell completely away over the years to me. Whereas getting to Death Stranding 2 and having it be this story that I think is springboarding off what worked from the Death Stranding one story for me works so well. All right, it's him and Lou. Lou's been taken away. What's going on? to the end here and of course El Fannie is Lou.

What does that set them up for in the future? How bad ass it is to see her in the porter gear at the end of this fucking game. Like you know what I mean? Like that a simpler story maybe or a different you know a more I guess A to B story in some ways. That works for me

better than Death Stranding ones did where you know I think back and I'm like you're Mario and I'm Princess B it's like I was like sure. Like I don't I remember Lindsay Wagner again. I know that's Lindsay Wagner because Kajima talks about Lindsay Wagner all that, but I don't remember, I didn't remember

this or that or who is she? Is this a hologram at the end? Whereas for some reason this worked for me. But Jericho, what do you think when you compare Death Training 1 to Death Training 2? I love the focus, like, as far as like, you know, Sam's a quiet character. I think that was some of the criticism that some people have seen. Like, it's still, it's just

Noren Redis and he doesn't have a lot of speaking moments, even in Death Training 2. But I do like what they did with the sequel. halve-aid. I feel like I got more from additional characters in this game. I feel like they are also on their personal journey, like with grief and like finding purpose. So not just Sam going along for the ride. And I do, I do feel that it's almost like I almost hoped they would have more of moments like on the ship so I can learn more about these characters and taught to them more. I really

wanted to have like a mass effect moment on Magellan at some point, but we never do. I'm sure there's some limitations with that, but all of the characters that join you on the Magellan are just so interesting. And it's pretty cool to see Gojima really dedicate some good storylines to female characters and, you know, fragile save the day. So comparatively, like, to the first game, they tie in some loose threads, but I felt like that was definitely more purposeful, like, telling the stories with the additional cast. Agreed. I think so too. And I'm glad to see you double back and bring up the female characters thing, because that's still something I'm seeing scuttlebutt around the internet and the think pieces, as there should be, if people dissecting and having issues in that. I know on the review we asked you, Jerica, if anything stood out to you. Again, I thought it was done well, but I've seen blowback from that, or not blowback. That's even, again, I've seen op eds about it. Has that surprised you, Jerica? Yeah, because, like, just from my opinion, like, I thought it was handled really well. I loved. seeing like fragile sort of bring in like how she was recruiting her team and just hearing the story like the background behind Rainy and like what she experienced and just sort of the girls have their own

club like the the gals on the ship and like you constantly see um like Sam wanting to participate and like wanting to chime in and see and play the games that they're playing. He was hanging out with them um which I was like oh let him hang out with y'all but ultimately like I did enjoy that sort of community that they built between fragile radian tomorrow. I thought that was pretty cool. And there was a line that like stuck out to me because like Sam's like, are they're about to head out and like do a mission? I forget exactly.

Go get supplies or something. And they're leaving. And he's like, well, are you all going to be careful? Like, are you going to be okay? And like tomorrow goes and says like, we're stronger than you. And I thought that was a pretty cool line. just after seeing tomorrow's like

towers and abilities and that amazing cutscene that we had first with the BTs was pretty rad but yeah I enjoy like compared to the first game like you just have so much more

it's more than just Sam and BB and Lou like on this mission and yeah Omelie or whoever that is from the first game in the red dress like you have more I don't know like

more human connection with these characters versus like top level weird science, sci-fi stuff happening that's connecting them as like human, like more grounded in reality for their

I guess what has happened to them and how they're connecting with each other. I agree with that in terms of like, if I were to compare the stories, right, I think two is probably a better story overall. But for me the pacing of one is so solid, especially with the way that they do the Mads-Mickleson

stuff, which I think they, I wouldn't say they, I like the Neil Vana stuff by the ending of it, but I don't love the pacing of it all. I think it was kind of like, we could have spraised those out a little bit better throughout the entire game. But also just the pure gameplay of one,

I prefer more than two. Why? That's not the shooting of it all, right? Of course, I wish I had, you know, I can shoot people like normal in one like I did in two. But I like how they space out the driving of it all, right? It is so walking focused in one. By two, within like three hours, you get a car, right?

And you're just driving around, and you're building roads. I think that there's something meditative there. It also, you control a lot of the needle drops in the game a lot better when you are walking and you're going across a mountain. You're able to design that better. And it made that experience a lot more unforgettable for me, where in two, I was just driving pretty much immediately.

And I'm just, you know, running up entire mountains. And it just became kind of like a thing, at least, of course, I was playing in the worst scenario possible, right? With still bike mic right next to me. And, you know, it's not a way that you should ever. ever play a video game, but it is something that I look back on one, and I like that meditative quality, walking up a mountain and then building the Ziplein and doing, it's still there, but, you know, you still want to...

That I feel you on. That was what I think, but I think it's interesting of, like, death-straining one is that for me, and I've said it so many times being in Quebec City, all alone in a couch, playing it with snow falling outside and on a snowy mountain, just walking up, and it was that every one of those long journeys, long walks, felt like it could go wrong in any second, I can tumble down the hill and ruin the package of a lot, whereas this, again, was frictionless, where, yeah, I had the tri-cruiser right away,

and then got my big van, and I was all set up. Machine gun, yeah, I'm going around and do it. But I guess that's the power isn't the right word, but the grading on a curve of the sequel, where it's like, I wouldn't, I don't, it works sometimes, you know, like, in a god of war game to have all your abilities stripped away, but I like that we jump back in,

and it wasn't like Sam had lost everything, and it was, to some degree, to the fun faster. Like, I do like having the big cruiser and just filling it up with stuff, like Santa and going around and doing that and stuff like that. But you're not alone here.

Charlie is in the chat right now and says, I think one has stronger needle drops too. Making it atop a hill and the music kicks in as you see a new landscape. Second, I drove almost everywhere and the music felt random with a few noticeable exceptions. A thousand percent where I'd be like,

I'm listening to stuff on my music player, right? But then it would get the actual, like, cinematic one of the drop. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, for sure. Blessing, you've been quiet. Where are you when you think about Death Stranding versus Death Stranding 2? I definitely like Death Training 2 more.

I think I was more invested in the story of Death Training 2. But I think the conversation is interesting because I also, I think I view them as two parts of a whole. Right? Like, I don't think Death Training 2 obviously couldn't exist without Death Stranding 1. But I think the through line that you get through both games complement each other very well, where I like both for different reasons. And I think, you know, I think the, Greg, you mentioned, like, you know, it being more fringeringering. And that's the apt way to put it as far as even the corpus and how that's implemented into cut scenes and how I think the game does a way better job of kind of like, you know, easing you into the world is not the phrase because I think the game already expects you to know the rules or the world. And so they don't have to spend a lot of time explaining shit that is bat shit insane to you. They can just like go through the, you know, being like, oh, we got a chiral printer. And it's like, oh, I know what that is. Because I just got it, ready to go.

Yeah, yeah, because he spent the first game telling us what the chirals are and the Cairo Network and how, you know, all this shit. And so, like, when I'm in those first two cutscenes hanging out with Fragile and, you know, she's talking about how, you know, because of the Cairo Network, you now have APAS and, like, you have these autonomous machines that deliver packages. Immediately I'm like, okay, no, that makes sense. And that is also an interesting implication for what that means for the world. When you have these AI, AI bots delivering things, but now you want to expand out into different locations. and like I'm thinking about again like the threads it's fun watching Roger in the beginning of the game be like I don't trust these I don't trust the expansion of like these things when you have the United Cities of America being the ones that are responsible like that I don't know about that and it's like dude

the fact that you're having those thoughts about a game that is this bat shit as far as what the like what the properties of this world are right like I think Descrating 2 does a great job of just like trusting you to understand and also giving you the tools to understand what's going on without the friction of being in Dest Raining 1 and having to be like, wait, it's a beach, it's a BT? What the fuck is a beach? Yeah. All right, it's a beach thing. These are beach babies.

Like, what the fuck is happening? Like, every new term, every new property introduced in Dest Raining 1 is like a brand new concept to you. And I think that makes it inherently way different experience than in Destrating 2. But I also feel what Rogers talk about because I think that it's almost like a conversation of friction versus non-friction when it comes to Descraning 1 and 2 because I was playing Destraining 2 like a truck

simulator for most of the game where I go to the garage I'm like, all right, who on my network has a truck that automatically picks things up and like has a turret on it and like I get that truck and I drive to a long way to the next destination and it is really like I am just in my

vehicle listening to my music player just having a good time but I remember playing Destranging 1 and being on foot and being like all right shit how am I going to do this? how am I going to get across these snow mountains? How am I going to get all the way over here? Like, you know, they would place certain objectives in front of me in Death Training 1. And literally I would have the feeling of like, I just don't know how I'm going to make that happen.

Whereas in Death Rating, too, they're like, all right, go across the map. And I'm like, all right, Beck, cool. Let me get in my car. Let me load up on things. I'll pick shit on the way up and I'm having way more of a relaxed kind of experience with it. I think overall I lean toward death training too just because the overall story and I think the characters and how that stuff I think invokes more of what Kojima's talented in when it comes to his writing, which I think is, you know, making every character shine, giving them their own unique backstories and having like a wacky cast and crew. I think that's where Kojima's bread and butter is and that stuff shines way more in Destraining 2 than in Destrating 1 for me. and yeah I just really like the open world of death training too

I think death training these is way more dynamic you know you have the fire shit going on you have the gatequakes you have rising lowering water levels you have the sandstorms you have so many systemic things going on in death training too and you have like the animal shelter that you're delivering things too there's just a lot going on in death training to you that run by churches but it's run by churches there's just so much going on in the test training too you gotta have them in there yeah I definitely lean towards two but I definitely give one a lot of props for being a thing that I think is a bit more

confronting and a bit more like more obstacle-filled as far as like how it wants you to experience right it's not as easy of experience and I think there's value to that of course um you were talking about kejima's bread and butter writing these weird characters getting into his weird bag gooseberry uh has a take here he admits or they admit hot take Kajima is not good at writing characters, dialogue or plot. He's not good or he chooses to be bad. Ha ha. Roger, agree or disagree? I disagree. I mean, he is very blunt and he shows more than he tells a lot of the time.

But saying he's bad as such an insane generalization to that. Because he makes me, at least for me, he makes me feel. You know what I mean? He can have a guy named Die Hard Man and he was also a robot and dancing and I'm fucking crying. But then also, you have the other side of it. We're literally during that sequence, not to get a hair of ourselves, but the dance sequence, Mike is right next to me, and he literally says a word that I've never heard him say, cringe. He's like, that's like, that's like, that's like, that's crazy, and the people in the chat are split completely, right? Like, he is a very divisive, right?

He's a very divisive, creative, and I appreciate that. But specifically that sequence in the entire game, speaking generally, it works for me. So, yeah, I think he's calling him bad as a generalization kind of. kind of is a little bit. Yeah, I mean, as somebody who's loved Kajima, basically my entire video game playing career, which I guess is totally not true. But you know what I mean?

My adult video game playing career starting with Metal Gear Solid on PS1, right? Like, I think he's so particular. Yeah. Like, I think he writes characters, dialogue, and plot unlike most people, most video game creators. And so that gives it a style of its own

that I can understand it could be jarring. You know, maybe it isn't the most Western presentation of stuff. But for me, it works. And it is that idea of like, yeah, all right, San Porter Bridges isn't my dude. He isn't my character, right? But like, I was intrigued. I wanted to know what was going on. And I think to what we've been talking about, and even what Charlie said in a chat I didn't get to yet,

but I think they kept too much for the last third, which is something we talked about, of it being back and heavy in terms of exposition characters' plot. That is true, and I agree with that. But I think it works for the journey we were on where I was, they were giving us enough breadcrumbs early on that kept it going. And I think that's what. what Kajima does that works so well for me, Jerica, is introducing interesting ideas, keeping me on the path and then giving me a big reveal. But does it work for you?

Yeah, I think that's why, like, I, it helped me want to continue. Like, made me eager to explore the next area because, like, I just wanted to, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to do a little bragging right now. I knew tomorrow was going to be good. I mean, yeah, I knew it. Google Gaga lady. And we also, I was just so curious about, like, how. they would get there and never in a million years would I be able to predict that's how we got here you know and I didn't I didn't really see what was happening with fragile and like trying to predict that scenario like I had no idea but yeah like I love how much they kept from us but yeah to your point like they gave us just enough to where it just made me want to keep playing and I think that that was the goal with the story um like I just wish it would have been more with like interacting on the ship. God, I wanted to be able to talk to more of these characters. I wanted to hear Tar Man talk about the Tar more. Every time he says, I really enjoy it. The Ta. So that was a little bit of a let down on, like, for me from the story, is like, man, I really want to talk to these

characters more. And then there's Doll Man. You know, I'm sort of word vomiting now. All the things I love about this game. How did y'all feel about Doll Man? Why'd y'all think about? Here's the thing. I like the idea of doll man. I like doll man and his interactions in cutscenes. I think he's really good. You know, after beating the game and coming back to play it, right, one of the first things I did, you know, I'm on the bed and I turn and had just the usual.

You want to talk to doll man? And I don't know if this could have happened earlier, because I didn't even do this often, talk to doll man. But I was talking to doll man, and he said something, and I was like, all right, keep talking. And he was going to me like, do you want to know how I became a doll? And I got this whole cutscene about him. Yeah, I totally missed that. And is Han Ka being separated and his daughter being killed.

And they were trying to see their mom who got, and I was like, this is fucking awesome. All of that shit about Dalman, I love. When I'm getting my ass whooped by a boss and he's like, Sam, have you thought about it?

I'm like, shut the fuck up, Dalman. You drop something. Yeah, I know, doll man. Yeah, I, I was really, I was hoping for more. Agreed. Yeah, I want him to tell me stories. You know what I mean? I want to tell him about life.

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. You just like, I forgot he was on my hip most of the time until, yeah, the BT interactions and he would get mad at me for dropping shit. I'm like, bro, shut up. Calm down. I bet you bless. I fuck with doll man.

Yeah. I agree with everything you guys are saying, though, right? Like, I would have liked him to, yeah, have like maybe the, I think maybe some of those needle drops, because there are so many needle drops in Destrating 2 compared to Descrating one. Maybe he could have replaced some of those needle drops with, God, I was going to call him here, with doll man storytelling moments. And he's the dialogue that felt more geared toward more narrative purposes as opposed to,

like, mechanical purposes. Which is something that I think comes back to the conversation we're having about, like, Kojima's writing, right? Where I think Kojima writes for video games in a way that's, like, very interesting and in a way that I really like, but also I wouldn't want everybody to do, where he over explains things to work within the world of this video game that you're playing in ways that, like, for me, really immerse me and, like, really, I think, alter the experience. Because it isn't just, hey, Sam, go from, go over here. and then you check your map and then see all the hazards. The characters will tell you every single fucking hazard, right?

The characters will be like, you'll see them on the map and then they'll tell you again. It's like that kind of thing. They'll keep like, they turn everything. Every mechanic is like a narrative thing, you know, every like element, every system is like there is a story implication for it, which leads to a lot of over-explanation in the dialogue that we get. But also, I like it. Like for me, it really immerses me in the world. and it's like kind of a, it's definitely like a Kojima, like a unique Kojima thing, right?

And it's a thing that I like seeing. But in the conversation about the overall narrative of the game, like, I totally understand somebody being like, this shit is either bad or doesn't make sense. And I think it comes back to what Greg was talking about, which is like your taste and like, like, Kojima's particular and all that stuff, right? Because like, yeah, Mike's saying the dance scene is cringe. It's funny because, like, for me, I'm like, I, it's, Kojima, I think, has that balance, right, of sugar and things.

spice that he has to make where like the dance scene is totally out of nowhere and it's bizarre and it's fucking weird and I fucking love it because it's bizarre and weird and out of nowhere. For me that's the whole... When it started I was like this is what I've been waiting for.

Yeah, go and go off. Exactly. And like that's what I look for but also I totally understand anybody that's like no that's not like what the fuck am I watching right now but for me that's the emotion that I wants to listen and like I like how that makes me feel. I like when I get to the reveal, like, oh, and tomorrow is actually the baby and all this crazy shit's going on. Oh, this crazy shit's going on, you know?

Yeah, so specifically with the dancing, I adore that because it is like true hope core, right? Like, the whole idea is that it is against the president hive mind alien thing that is trying to be like, hey, we're going to use the connection of the chiral network, the internet, to then take everybody and also ruin their lives and to make sure no one evolves as an entire species. And then he's like, fuck that. I'm going to dance. I'm going to show you how good the. internet can be. And like that to me like that's nice. That's nice. And like, Koggiwa talked about how he rewrote a lot of death stranding to after the pandemic or

during the pandemic to kind of make it a little bit happier and more of a hopeful tale and not just so depressing as a death stranding one and the sequel to that one could have been. So I like that. I appreciate that a lot. Talking about like the twists of it all, I am very split because I just, I think there's one too many twists, right? Like there's too many things that happen in that ending sequence that just does not need to be either twists, reveals, or just doesn't even need to be a thing. Well, I want to hear you break it down, Roger. But first, I'll remind you, of course, that this is the kind of funny games cast each

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And we're back. Roger, talk to me about this belief that there's too many twists in turn. Yeah, let me just read off some of the twists here and then I'll break down the ones that I think that are not great. I mean, die hard managed Charlie, right? Cool. We have the, we have the, we have the, hold on, hold on. I've, hold on. I've, I've, love that one. Oh, I love it. Oh, I love it. It's so dumb because he literally is a diehard man the entire game. They don't want you choose. They don't want you choose. Yeah, I know. You know the choice of like who you want. And they're like, uh, we went through all three of the other options. And then it was like, oh, yeah, we'll be dying. I'm like, well, what are we doing here? Yeah. The president is evil. Duh. But also he's like a hive mind of four thousand people. That's kind of cool. That's kind of cool. That was cool. Yeah. At first it was like, because it was, it was so funny when they kept the doing the thing of like the president would show up and he'd be talking to you. And then he would turn black and white. He'd be like, oh, by the one. way. I'm on a secure line right now.

I got to talk to you. It's so funny because you had to the point in the game where it's like, I think it was fragile. It was somebody who's part of the drawbridge, right? Who's like, I don't trust that guy? And then the president's like, I don't trust them. Something's weird going on, right? And it's like, oh, who do you trust? And I thought that was going to be a story decision.

Do you side with drawbridge or do you side with the president? And no, it's just like, oh, no, the president's a hive mind. It's like, oh, okay, cool. He's got one earring, we know. So he's that was that. And then also, Higgs is the secret, secret bad guy. He's like, I've playing you guys. I knew this entire thing the entire time and I'm also the secret bad guy.

Then we have the BB is actually dead that happened a little earlier before that. Can we stop real quick? Yeah. Because that is one of mine. I was, did you? Did that surprise you? The BBs that actually dead? No, not because they say it pretty much. Yeah, literally, Dallman says it. When they get to the thing where like there's the big

reveal, one of the big reveals and Sam puts it all together, I was like, is this a real reveal? Because like, I feel like I've known this the entire time. Yeah. Yeah. I remember being like frustrated the entire game. He was like, I still have to take care of the baby. He's dead. I know. The game tries, yeah, the game tries

so much to paint that as a twist that I started to believe it, where I was like, wait, maybe the baby's not. Because like, I started having a conversation and I think would Barrett. And also people at the preview event where I was like, well, you know, dooms is what allows he to see BTs. So maybe maybe, what's his name? Dallman

doesn't have Dumes the same way. But then I'm like, well, he's in a doll, so he probably has Dumes. But yeah, yeah, that that was a weird one for sure. Yeah, and then going through them really quickly, they have the whole Neil Vana stuff, which I'm sure that's gonna be a whole section of this podcast. The one that I think is egregious

that I think is like, we gotta talk about is the Red Samurai. That sucked. We got to, like, that fucking stuff. You can't have, you can't have two reveals of Dead Man. You can't be like, dead man is also inside of Hartman. Also, his dead body is, it's like, it was the most nothing reveal possible

with the coolest character. Yeah, like, it should have just been anything. If we didn't have any other dead man, I would be like, okay, cool, that's a fine reveal. But, like, we can't have two dead man reveals. No, no, no. I agree with that, yeah. Yeah, it was lame.

Agreed, agreed. But, yeah, I guess maybe we talk about Neil Vanna now. Well, yeah, I guess I was going to talk about the tomorrow thing. What about that? Because I was surprised. Yeah, how did that twist it with you? Oh, that Google Gaga? That she, maybe?

Yeah, I mean, I knew that immediately. Oh, yeah, it was a thing in the chat where we're playing the game. And then someone in the chat, like, who was not a spoiler? Like, they were just, like playing along with us. And they were like, is that she kind of looks like Lou maybe? Maybe that's a thing? And I was like, okay, here's the thing. If the next scene we see her, she's suckered her thumb and saying,

go-go-gou-gaga, that's the baby. And the next scene, she's eating the fucking thing. She's throwing the blocks. I'm like, this is so obvious. And they, like, wrap up her arms. So, like, that's exactly where, like, the, there's not the entire game. That's where the birth mark is.

It is so obvious and parent, but I thought it was fine. Like, I wasn't like, it didn't blow my mind, but, like, I think that's on purpose, right? He laid it on thick there. I was very much oblivious to it. Whoa. Not to the end, because at some point, Barrett, walked by to go have his fucking cigarette and he looked at me and he's like, I told blessing with theory.

He's like, the baby on the, the main screen looks a lot like L. Fannie. And I was like, ah, fuck. Yeah, you're right. You're right. I hadn't even thought about it. I had been worried about it at this point. Yeah. Do you guys remember, this is years ago before I think they even announced, like officially announced Death Training 2 where Kojima started teasing.

I think he might have just been teasing like DS2 or whatever it was, but he wouldn't announce the game. And there was a whole thing where he put up a silhouette. of L. Fanning. Yes. And it was, who is she? Yes.

And this was like, this led to a controversial KFGD where I was like, oh, she's going to play the baby in death straining two. And everybody got on my ass. Controversial KFGD.

It was like, dude, it was so, like, heated because I was like, guys, no, Elle Fanning, she's, she played a baby and this other thing.

I'm telling you right now, go break that out. Go break that out. I need to find it because people were so fucking mad at me and I was 1,000% right. I was 1,000% Right. And like I might go back and try to find it.

I know you got to do that. I'll definitely like have kind of cringe because like I was so heated. I was so heatedly trying to make the argument that she was the baby. Craig's desk is. Kevin, I said the desk up, but I can't bring it down. Stalk it out. Doesn't matter. Don't worry about it. Yeah. That was, uh, Jericho, were you, did you have the entire way? Did you know? I mean, I knew, like, we were, I knew we were going to get to that point. But yeah, it was, I was just wondering, like, is, is this, is this? another scenario, yeah, just like the sci-fi of this story that am I not spot on? Is Lou actually there? But Sam is like the only one that can see Lou.

Like I knew something has happened, but I knew the baby's not dead. Like it just something has happened. So the reveal of actually how it came to be was a surprise for me. I can never predict the Kijima game, unfortunately. I knew though it was going to be loose. I still don't kind of get it. agree with the whole time. From the poster, I was like, you don't believe it?

Well, I don't understand how, because Lou is the baby that Norman Reedis says, his biological baby. So how did she, how did the baby end up being a baby like 11 years later when, when, you know what I mean? I'm thinking about it too. Well, no, because it was put into the baby holder. Yes. Oh, so they don't.

So, okay. Correct me if I'm wrong. The BBs that are inside of their little containers are very similar to the baby that would be inside of rainy, right? Where time is frozen. Oh, really seven months. Okay, that makes sense. It makes sense in a death draining way.

And they break free. And they start growing. My biggest. I mean, it was a big baby. There was a big baby. I think my biggest confusion was just always like, then how did that baby end up on the carrier that then Norman Redis was on? Was that just luck?

Was that his sister-mother pulling the strings? You know what I mean? Like that, like, I don't understand how that happened, but like it's whatever. I guess that's by chance, a pont-on saying in chat, I guess. Really? Yeah, I guess that's just like. Yeah, somebody's pulling the string. Yeah, I guess it's like interstellar.

I don't know. Love connects us all. Oh, wow. I love disconnect us all. Yeah, yeah. But I didn't understand. I didn't know how they were going to explain the time difference either or whatever, but then this whole frat-and-maybe, and maybe this is back to your maybe one too many to us.

So, like, fragile bringing loose. into the beach space and leaving it there. I was like, that's cool. And she's like, also, I've been dead this whole time. Yeah. It's like, what? And that's where I thought that fragile was bad. Let's talk about that for a second.

I was so sussed this entire game of like, I knew something was up because it just felt off. And I was like, man, fragile is bad. And like maybe it was the beret. Maybe it was the fact that she was bringing on everybody. And like it kind of felt like she was Magneto. Like she was bringing on all these people at their lowest, like, you know, that are super powerful.

And also, like, she wasn't, like, particularly nice to Sam during his whole situation. Like, she was like, you've got to get up and just go. Just get up, bro. Just keep on, just walk and connect Australia. Yeah, just rub some dirt on it. Don't worry about it, homie. But she was fine, I guess. I guess she was good at the ending.

It's just like, she's not a really good friend. So you believed with the president when the president was like, oh, no, man. I kind of a little bit. Yeah, I thought this was going to lead to, like, death training three where fragile was the bad guy. And if you kind of replay that game, do you think about it from my point of view? Yeah. I think you get it. Honestly, though, that would be kind of sick.

It would be a big. Like, if fragile was actually a bad character the whole time. Well, it was such a fishy thing, right? Of, like, hey, go off on this mission. And, of course, while you're on that mission, something happens. Lose dead. Yeah. You're lose gone.

Yeah, the first time I see you in 11 months. And then also, I have this secret organization that's working with the government, but not working with the government. I'm no longer old. Yeah. Underneath my outfit. She's fragile. She's not that fragile.

She's not that fragile. She's not that fragile. Not that fragile. Uh, you, now we're at a point. You guys keep. tiptoeing around Neil. But I want to talk about Higgs so bad. Okay, yeah. We can go either way.

We can do Neal and get to Higgs. No, I want... Fucking Troy Baker. Dude, he's locked in. What a fucking performance. What a standout role for him. What a goddamn boss fight at the end. You know what I mean?

On the review I talked about it, I was an hour and a half from finishing it, and I was like, does Kajima still have it for a boss fights? I still think it's a worthwhile conversation because I do think the B.T. fights? Mooring. The fighting Higgs is.

Octopus, boring, these aren't engaging, but this finally getting up there and just, you know what? Let's just do Liquid versus Snake again, shirtless for the third time. But this time with guitar, it's like, fucking, this is amazing. Hell yeah. I can't believe how, yeah, strongly they invoked Metal Gear Solid 4. Yeah. And a lot of Metal Gear Solid references in this game. Like a lot of MGS 5 and MGS4.

Kept you waiting. Yeah, kept you waiting. And then, yeah, like, doing the boss fight and having the boss or having like the almost like the fighting game health bars. that they also date in Meliger Solid for on top of the thing that they're fighting on, like, so strongly invoked, to the point where I was like,

this is a bit much, but I'm not going to complain. Yeah, I was like, is Konami going to see? He's like, yo, what the fuck? Tarmat pretty much looks at the camera and says, phantom pain and winks. Like, you know what I mean? He literally does, yeah. He, like, he is like, it's sort of a phantom pain.

Yeah. I was like, wait, hold on. Can you say that? So funny. Jerica, what did you think of Higgs and his fight? You know, I think, this whole game too and even thinking about the first one. Just obviously the story can be emotional and it's just wacky and in your face over the top.

And that's just what's so beautiful about a Kojima game. But man, that whole scene, like even the point where they're like, or Sam's like running on the beach, you got Magellan man. I was like, oh shit, this is about to be our Avengers moment. Like it's just so much going on. And to end up like having a full-blown conversation with Higgs while, you know, trying to get. I guess the last place we're going to fight was just visually just a part of the story too. Like just such a work of art and something that makes me feel things just for being how epically cool it looks.

And yeah, just seeing the dude shirtless doing their thing with their guitars was very entertaining. I took a lot of pictures because that was pretty, it definitely could be a great wallpaper for my computer. it was so cool. See for me it's more I got a lot of photos of Higgs shirtless Troy Baker there because I want to make sure I use him come

Christmas and remember he's the reason for the season because he looks so much like Jesus I thought and some of the outfits he was doing there and some of the things that was happening with his shirtless nature there but that guitar fight like when they gave you the guitar and they're like oh but there's also so much chiroolium in the air you can just use it

indefinitely I was like that's fucking awesome let's go and like the thought you have to shred it points that was the other thing I did all that and then like, yeah, I pulled Tim aside and I made him watch. Busting was there. I made up watch like 20 minutes of the battle just to get all of it in there or whatever. So good. Hell yeah.

Such a fun fight. You know, and again, as somebody who's craving more and more weird Kajima shit to have it be that, like we have the entire fight and then Lou comes out of the space vagina and plants there and then eats true. Yeah. This is what I wanted. The scene that I think about a lot is the boss fight, well not boss fight. the fight against, it's not even a fight,

when he just burns Sam alive, and he just keeps on reincarnating and re-coming through. That, to me, is like the biggest standout. What a dope moment. I love that Kojima has his staples, because for me,

that is the moment of, like, rioting being tortured and festrating to or, like, snake being tortured and melliger... Like, for me, it was so reminiscent of snake crawling through the microwave at Metal Gear,

mellorson. Oh, yeah. I would put that as another one of those, right? Like, I feel like Hojima, oftentimes, yeah, has these things of like, all right, this is where the main character gets tortured

and you have to tap a button. And then after that, you know, here's the big fight on top of the thing, right? But yeah, it kind of felt cool. That felt like another harken back to, yeah, like what Kojima typically does in like a Metal Gear Solid. Yeah. Anything else for Higgs or do you want to move on to Neovana? I mean, just all the choreography.

Shout out to fight choreography in Kojima games. Like, I don't know who on the team or like how they just consistently always have, like, really good cutscenes and really good fight choreo, but yeah, I just love watching the you know, Death Man Baby Robot Fight Higgs in the warehouse. I will, I'm going to throw out here, a little hot take,

not even too hot of a take, I'm not mad at it or anything, but I was, I'm happy, I'm happy with Higgs and his performance, and especially that, that final boss fight, but I was kind of looking forward to something with the president. I actually liked where they were going with that. I liked that reveal, and so to be had that kind of moment where it's like, oh, by the way, it's actually secretly Higgs again. It's like, okay, we did this, been there, done that a little bit.

Like, I wanted something new. I wanted something a little bit. I mean, it is interesting, it is cool. Another thing I saved is when the president's talking in Norman Reed's just goes, you're not even real, are you? And this crab crawls around his shoulder. It's like, it's fucking. But yeah, I mean, it's not like the president was like the most, like, compelling

character, but it was like what they were pushing towards was more compelling to me than, oh, Higgs is on the beach and he was secretly pulling the string. So to have that kind of like, you know, side. line so fast was just kind of a little bit disappointing because it goes back to like the twists for having twists sakes of like he's just like hey we're gonna have

this thing and then this thing and this thing or no it's actually Higgs I just wanted them to stick with one of those so yeah I like Higgs being there 4,000 souls and Higgs in their weird data beach love it but again one of my things

about the Kijima in boss fights was that guitar fight at the end there shirtless amazing. Right before it, I was so like, where I'm just shooting him around these giant stone slash whatever computer pillars, where it would be he would just teleport and I would hit the pulse

button and see he was over there and then aim and slowly come around and shoot him with my guitar. I was like, this sucks. This isn't a fun fight. But then it was really fun. It's sweet and sour. It pays off, but I think it solidifies what I'm talking about. I found a tweet a while ago, by the way.

This is from September 15th, 2022. And this is me like, Again, on my rant. This is me on like my like, what's his name? Charlie Day from, it's always sunny for Philadelphia connecting the dots. And this is like me posting the KFD where I was angry on talking about. I'm expecting apologies from everyone in chat when this is revealed to be a death-draining thing. And this is like Ho Jima just tweeting out like the Who Am I thing with like the silhouette of El Fanning.

I then reply to it saying, quote, who am I? El Fanning played a character named Lucy who was the daughter of a single father named Sam in I Am Sam. Spoilers for Destrianing. Sam Porter Bridges is literally the single father of a baby named Lou after his wife Lucy. Right? So this is me connected. And again, connecting the dots that this is Sam's daughter here from September 15th, 2020, before the game was announced. Look at you.

Look at that. You're prophetic, man. You did it, bless. Nealvana. Solid snake. He's your solid snake. It's my guy. Go off on him, bless.

I mean, like, here's the thing. I loved everything about him. The Neovana Nirvana thing was so fucking. Forney in force. That's the thing that you're putting out. That's the part where I draw the line. He was like, oh, it's not Nirvana. It's Neil Vana.

I'm like, shut the fuck up. Dahl man. Fucking doll man. Yeah, open your ears. But I fucking loved the Nirvana segments. I thought they got it better with everyone also. Really? Were you fighting him and the dudes?

Yeah. I just found him so boring to shoot those dudes and then shoot him and run around and shoot. But it goes by fast. It goes by faster than the last one. Yeah, I know for sure. give you that. It's faster. And I just love to mechanic. For the second one to be your, this underwater thing, and you're jumping

high and, like, anti-gravity shit. That was cool, but then you get to the third one, it is them, like, you know, walking on the ceiling and, like, you know, fucking the world's collapsing on itself, and then you're, like, in the air. Multi-versa madness shit. Yeah. Like, all that shit, for me, I was like, I don't care that these are just shooting galleries. Like, the way that you're setting them up and framing them, and then also, yeah,

the setting that you're putting all these in, I thought it went so fucking hard. Yeah. I think I prefer if we were to do the one versus two, the Mads-Michelson stuff versus the Nielvana stuff, I prefer the Mads-Mickleson stuff. I think that's... Really?

Just for the pure story of it, right? Like, the Nielvana stuff, like, by the ending of it, I was like, okay, I understand what you're going for, but having Mads-Mickleson, one, you think that he's the father of the BB on your chest, but it's like, oh, no, he's your father. That's like, oh, shit, what a crazy reveal. And then also having those really, like,

nice cutscenes, like, every single time that you come from the private room, upwards and then you can see Mads and be like, baby, I'm going to take you to the moon baby, and it's like, but like it ranges from silly to like very serious and you get that every single time you're coming up from the private room and to not really have that. You get these weird

flashes and then they just kind of give it all to you at the ending and it's like I wish that those were spaced out a lot more and if you were to, if you're just copying the same thing which you are you're doing the same thing from Death Stranding 1 that was a winning formula in my opinion just do it again. You could have taken those segments, those cutscenes

and drop them in at key moments throughout the story. I don't think you needed to have that all in the ending. The ending reveal could have been that he was the one that caused the void out, which I think was good enough. You could have had all those things spaced out a little bit better. So that's my big criticism. But I liked actually playing the Nealvana stuff more than I did the Mads-Mickleson stuff. Greg, how do you feel about it?

I liked all the cutscene stuff with him. I thought, again, the reveals were interesting, bottled up there at the end of like, it's not your baby. It is your baby. I was protecting your baby. Like, what is going on? Like, I don't like what it was, what's up with it? But his wife still cheated on him, but it's not his baby.

I'm like, that complicates it as well. I feel like with their weird-ass connection, right, the thing seared in their hands that they touched when it was nuclear hot or whatever, I feel like that was enough of a connection for them to have a, I get it that they have a bond that is strong, but I didn't think it needed to be romantic. I was waiting for them to take back that she cheated on Sam with him as well. And when they didn't do that, I was like, that's a weird one to do.

I feel like we just didn't need that because it's still complicated then with lose involvement or whatever. But I understand relationships are complicated. But yeah, I bitched on the review about the fights and now that we can just talk about him, you know, Baby Dawn X-7 chats and goes, Greg, what are you looking for when I was talking about these fights? Like, I just find those fights to be mechanically uninteresting. I just, when I want a Kojima fight, or,

a video game fight, I want to feel, I guess the biggest thing about it is I didn't feel challenged, I felt like they were brain dead. And it was go hide behind something, pulse, all right, my guns loaded up, come around, I'm just going to run when I finally got the

even further into them, I was like, I'm just going to run up on Neil every time, get him to shoot, so he pops and goes to the next, and then I'd be chasing him to the next thing and something like, how do I get up there? What am I doing? I was never mechanically interested in the fight. I was always I'm narratively interested in what was going to be the cut scene I got and where we were going and what the connection here was.

But mechanically, I never had a feeling, and this goes back to my boss battle thing of, I never had a revolver Oscelot, Metal Gear Solid 1, a Vulcan Raven, like, you know what I mean, a sniper wolf. Like, they, I was just hiding behind shit in shooting people. It's almost what, this is a deep cut stick with me, if you're with me, it's almost comparing Metal Gear Solid PlayStation 1's Revolver Oscelot fight. to Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes GameCube fight, where when they add it in first person, well, now the game's broken. Now I can just stand there and go, bam, there he is, bam, there he is, okay.

And this is the same thing of, I'm way overpowered, I pulse, I can see where they are, I come around, I shoot, there's thousands of guns on the ground, so if I'm ever out of it, I don't have to be prepped for it to go into this. This game overall, right, is such a, oh, man, what I love about Death Stranding.

Oh, man, I'm going across the map. All right, well, what mission, could I bring with me on the side. I'm probably going to run into a BT, so let's bring some, oh, but maybe if I hit up this mule camp, I'll need more away. Like, there's so much planning that goes into just leaving a base, and then you get into these fights

and it's just like, it's fucking, Sam, it's a raining grenade launchers for no reason. Like, you should use the, you just got the quad rocket. Why are you not using that over, here they are, here there, and it's like, this just isn't what. See, I think for me, it's sort of, because I agree

with you as far as, like, mechanically, the boss fights can be very one-note and it is, all right, just shoot down these things or shoot the weak points on the thing and then go on to the next thing, right? And I think, um, for me, with Kojima and like, oftentimes gameplay, but I think more so with boss fights in particular, Kojima's at his best when he's being a magician and when he's like finding ways for you to engage in boss fights that aren't actually like straight up action, here's the strict mechanics of the game. Like a lot of the games, it's like, a lot of video games you play, it is, all right, here's an amped up version of what you've been doing the whole game,

and that's going to be the boss fight, and the boss is going to have different phases. But, like, for the most part, if I'm playing Elden Ring, I'm going to dodge and hit. I'm going to dodge and, like, read the enemies, the animations. It's about how well can I play the game. For Kojima, when I think about a sniper wolf, when I think about a, even like a Vulcan Raven or Psycho Mantis or The End,

or, like, so many of the Kojima things, it's less about how well can you play this game, and more so, what's the, trick that Kojima's pulling on. Yeah. Like, what is the magic trick that, like, he's trying to pull and, like, the different, like, the puzzle he wants you to solve within the boss fights. But oftentimes, when he wants you to just engage

in the boss that is strictly, like, the Metal Gas 4 did this a lot. Hey, like, just, you know, we gave you guns, just used the guns to shoot down this thing. It's oftentimes, it's less interesting, because the games aren't necessarily, I don't think, I don't know if he necessarily knows how to do straightforward boss fights

as much. That's a great way to put it in the puzzle element, like the magic trick element of old games, yes, and I think that's completely lacking here. Yes. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it was way too easy. And I honestly, like, I respect the storyline, but yeah, if they could have nailed down, like, why these two guys are fighting maybe a little bit sooner, that would have added to some of the,

I don't know, how I feel with putting myself in his shoes, trying to understand, like, why are we even fighting this guy? Why does he keep bringing Sam back into this, into the land of the dead? why is this happening? And they sprinkle a little bit that throughout. But yeah, I agree with you guys. The spectacle of those levels

is really cool, but the gameplay itself wasn't nothing revolutionary. What else do you guys want to touch on? There's a lot going on. Oh, God, here you're going on. What's Andy doing? Oh, Andy's getting his headpoints.

Andy, how deep into death? Janney 2 are you? Dude, I haven't gone back. He hasn't gone back. damn. Oh, yeah? He wants to, can't do. He's waiting for the right time.

He doesn't like it. Meanwhile, he's playing rematch. I was going to say too much rematch. I'll let you know. I want to talk about the most underutilized character, in my opinion, which was Debra Wilson's character. Oh.

I thought that everything that they showed there was so compelling to me. Like, more than rainy, more than tomorrow, more than anybody in that entire new crew. Like, I was so, like, emotionally fucked up by everything that Deborah Wilson was putting down and everything she was saying and in that whole

faction of women that are pregnant but can't give birth to their babies and like this kind of curse that she has where she's able to help these women but it's like not really it's helping it's more of just showing hey your baby's still alive now it goes right back and you have to just kind of hope and pray that something's going to happen one day and you're going to be able to give birth and it's it was really depressing but it was also like just very interesting and I wanted to kind of see more of it I have not done a lot of the side stuff, so I don't know how much is there in terms of that, but I was expecting that to be like a core

part of the story and her to maybe come part of the group or something like that, but we just kind of move past it as kind of like a way to show like how deep the weapons have kind of come into the Australian outback right there of how they have guns and they're willing to fight, so it was just a little

bit weird. It was kind of like a start and stop right there. Yeah, I really loved that character. I really love that performance. I think Deborah Wilson's awesome at it. So it's like, I want to get back to it. That's, you know, one of the things of I, I intend to keep playing this game. And every time I've turned it back on and gone off and done something, I'm shocked at how much I still enjoy it and how much I still get out of it.

In the chat, Couch Ebo said, Death Training 2 is the perfect podcast game. Don't tell Kajima Lull. I don't agree with that because I'm engaged with the story, but it is a, I like listening to music on my Cupid, and I'm wandering around doing the thing, and then you get that story element. You get to check in on what's going on here.

I said it yesterday when I was streaming it here on Kind of funny. of just like, man, this is the perfect streaming game for me. Like, I enjoy playing it, but chatting away while I'm driving and navigating and doing the thing. And we all stop and watch the cutscene or whatever. I like that so much in terms of how it fills out. But yeah, the Debra Wilson stuff's great and I do intend to get back to it. Did she stand out for you, Jericho? Yeah, I'm in the same boat.

Like, I'd love to, and there might be more there. That's just why I'm going back and play. I normally don't revisit a game after I roll credits. I got what I need. But there's just so much. here and especially with the motherhood I'm curious like it does that open up in any other ways so yeah I'm well based on some of the scenes you get at the end like it seems like Rainy has her child like was the doctor her character part of making that

happened or was what happened at the end what allowed the baby to be born I don't know like so maybe just some extra bits would have been great, but yeah, loved her performance. She plays Sabbathoon, or in Destiny 2, so I always love to see Debra Wilson. Mad TV as well. Great boys. Suicide squad, never forget.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was like, there's so many suicide squad. I was like, where are we at? Of course, my favorite side character, Pizza Man. I'm happy to see him be so successful out there. That was the clip I showed a blessing. On the review was Sam facing off against Pizza Man at the end of his quest line.

Love that. I love that I've seen so many people do exactly what I did. Take the screenshot of, like, those who disrespect pizza do not deserve to live. Like, I'm ready to use it whenever I need to. Love that guy. It's funny because when you're talking about, like, oh, man, there's this scene. So many other seasons came to mind. I hadn't seen that one, right, but the fact that there's so much in this game that is, like,

really quality that you could show somebody that might, like, make their brain explode. Did you guys ever play the song Horizon Dreamer for Dollman? Yeah. Yeah, we did that on stream. That was sick. Yeah. It was so good. I mean, do you want to do it?

or do you want to... No, tell me. I like, I like, one of this part. Well, when you talk to Doll Man, right, like, obviously he has, like his list of dialogues that he'll say. And one of the things he says is, like, and I really like the song Horizon Dreamer by this artist. And then if you go into your music player and play it and then talk to him again,

he's like, Sam, do you have a moment? And then if you say, yes, it'll then then cut to him. And then, like, five more of him doing choreography to the song Horizon Dreamer. And then, like, it'll have, I guess the artist will pop in also. and will lead the choreography, and it goes for, like, the full fucking five minutes of this song. Like, very excellently mocapped, like, J-pop, I assume, like, you know, dance choreography. And it's fucking cool.

It's just, like, yeah, him and a bunch of puppets dancing. That's awesome. It's sick. And Sam's, like, just sitting in the back and, like, doing some of the dances with him, and it was so good. And I got that song just stuck in my head now. Like, ever since I found that scene, it's incredible. It's just been stuck in my head. That's the interesting thing with so many, I feel like I play, like I said, I do the

side op or whatever. Something new happens that way. It'll be just to see how long before it's all spoiled. Or if that ever ends, you know, as I continue to tinker with this game. You know, I don't plan on, I would have every intention of platinuming it. I don't think that'll ever happen. I think it'll just be that I tinker with it here and there and do stuff with it. But before we get too far off of music, Caroline Pollich.

Oh, hell yeah. On the beach. Of course, the song, you made happen, Roger. It's well documented around here for realsies. Even Jeff Keely, giving you the shout out by name at the London event. Pretty cool. Wild stuff. Yeah, wild stuff.

Shout out to that. That was really cool to happen live on the stream. Raj, what is your review, take, whatever? You stayed away from the song. Caroline, when you were recording the podcast offered to let you listen to you, you said, no, I want to hear it in game. Yeah, no, I loved it. I think it's a song that's definitely grown on me as I listen to it outside of the game

and also go back to it a second time in the content. of the game outside of the stream. But yeah, I really enjoy it. It's funny because when I talked to her, she was like, oh, it's like such a different song that I've ever made. And, like, I don't necessarily agree with that. I think it is very much in the vein of the era that she made it in, which is her paying era, her first album, her first solo album.

And yeah, it feels like it could definitely live on that album. And that's really refreshing and really cool. So, yeah, we, uh, me, Lianza, uh, re-listened to her first album. And, um, we're trying to find, like, kind of like, there's a lot of motifs there that are inside of the on the beach song. connections to it, which is funny. There's a lot of connections to the first song on that album, which is called The Gate, which, you know, of course, it's a plate gate and that's connection there. So I wouldn't be surprised if those were kind of like branching songs,

right, where she made The Gate and then she also made this song as well. So that's kind of funny there. But yeah, really cool stuff. And it was definitely an honor to play that on stream and react to that live, for sure. Pontan says, don't hate me, but I didn't really like on the beach song as much as the others in the game. I hate you. That's how it works, sir. I got to agree with Ponton. Ah, shit. The song's black, bro. Blessie, did you like this song?

No. Really? Oh, no. And like, here's the thing, right? Like, when I got there, it was one of those things where I was like, I was so shocked by like the Carolyn Pollock pop-up that I was like, oh, fuck, let's go. And I came back and I did the music player thing, right? Where I was like, okay, I can make playlist now.

And I put the song on there. And then after a while, I was like, I'm going to take this song off. Damn, okay. Yeah, it didn't work for me either. And I, you know, I'm the least musically educated probably person in the office. I like my pop stuff and I like that. But it was like to compare it to death training with churches, like that opened the door to me of like,

I love churches because finding them there. Whereas Caroline, you opened the door with the album and I've listened to her stuff. And I love Caroline Pollycheck. I think her stuff's great. The most recent album that name. Yeah, Desire wants to turn into it. Yeah, I was so into.

And so I was expecting a lot from this. And I got there. I was like, oh, this is very experimental. This isn't, you know, this, I was, I described it to Bless as like, this sounds like you published the wrong song where it's like, these are all that you're editing it. in this timeline, and you had all the stuff over here. You know, what's funny is that there's two versions of the song.

If you go on to Spotify, she has the regular version that's in the game, and she has the Timefall version, which is more of a strip-back version. I actually prefer that version of the song. And I think that if that song was played either at the ending or just replaced in-in, I think it would be a way better experience because it removes a lot of the weird sense going on there. It's more of just like a strip-back experience. It is a better version, in my opinion. So, yeah, if you listen to that, I think you might come around.

Okay. Yeah, it's not in-game. Okay. Yeah, it's weird that both. versions aren't in the game. But yeah, if you go on Spotify, you should listen to it for sure. I'm looking at my,

like, songs because I added so much other music from this game, because I thought the soundtrack is so well done. I want to give a special shout out to Jen Hoshino. Star is in the game, and then create. I liked it so much. I went and listened to the entire album. Hell yeah.

Creates, has a whole bunch of GameCube and, like, Nintendo sounds in it and stuff. Fucking love it. Great stuff over there. I will say, Wood Kid. One kid, right? Wood kid. Wood kid showed up to the situation.

Like, I had an insane way to say, that. You showed up to the occasion, whatever. The situation. He showed up to the situation. Oh, but yeah. I would say. There was a lot of good, like, Woodkin shit in here.

I was like, yo, Wood kid's kind of cooking on the soundtrack. So that's my guy, Wood kid. Jericho, what did you think of the Caroline song or the soundtrack in general? Yeah, I mean, I was all up in, like, Woodkid's, I guess, contributions to this game. And I think the journey is so cool. Like, I obviously started listening to Wood kid, like, through watching. arcade the songs that he did for that show and I just like man how does that guy's voice get so deep and then he can like softly sing too and like what the heck is that it's wild and like he just him like going through the motions working on arcade and uh death stranding just like how much of him is involved with the I'm not musically trained either but like the engineering of the sound and like learning how to slow down certain songs like if that matches the movement of when you're playing and act more

scenes with action, it's faster. And just hearing him talk about is really cool and just how much he had hands on. Like, I need more of his stuff and video games. I love the rainy theme. When we first got to that big rainy cut scene, I was like, yo, this is a track right here. And then also the tomorrow, not even just the tomorrow fight scene,

but the song that plays when you're on your way to find tomorrow. I thought was beautiful as well. Like, I actually really do love this soundtrack overall. I think overall there are a lot of good choices. I can't remember exactly which theme it is there's a theme that plays a lot toward the end of the song. In fact, I think it's a song they sing, actually. I forget who sings it.

It's El Fanning. Is El Fanning? El Fanning is singing with Wood Kid, I believe. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That goes hard to. Yeah.

And also shout out to Dalman. Singing rain drops keep falling on my head. I didn't know that that was an old song. You didn't know that was an old song? No, I thought that was made for the singing. Really? You're joking. Did you not watch Spider-Man?

I don't remember. I love those movies. I don't remember that. Spider-Man, too? Yeah, I don't remember. I thought it was just made for the song. I was like, I don't know. Wow.

Yeah. You knew that song? Yeah. Come on my side. No, this song is like, it's a very popular song. I don't know. We've been getting a lot of the super chats and chats in here, but I got two super chats we haven't done. Joel Osmond's super chat has said, preventing terminal fort from falling victim to avoid out was one of my favorite moments.

The Tar Lake Boss is awesome. And now in postgame, it's become a Pokemon game for me. Got to capture them BTs. I love that. I love that. Did you capture a lot of BTs, Jerica? I only got one and I keep forgetting to mention that moment

but I was just like oh god now it's Pokemon, what the heck? No, just got one. I want to capture more though. You might probably talk. You know what? I think I might have been watching the stream when you guys were killing them

and they're like this is the tutorial to capture them. What do you do? You just throw like a ball out there? Yeah, they give you a special grenade capture BTs. You get them weak and then you have them and use them. But I did it for the tutorial thing and I never really. Yeah.

Like you can have an attack for you. God, I love this game. That's cool. I never figured it out. They're, like, out for, like, massive BT, like, Pokemon for you to, like, throw out and use in, like, bigger battles.

Like, it's neat. I need to try to see what, what else is there to catch. Yeah, like, the boss fight that they, yeah, use as the tutorial, I think I just ran out. Like, I tried my hardest to try and capture one of those BTs, and it just didn't work.

And so it was just me versus, like, four gigantic BT lines. I was like, all, cool, because I'm fighting these, just struggled through it. It's crazy that the chat never told me about that. Baby Don X7 says, in all caps,

the chat was screaming at Roger to pay attention to that part. They didn't tell me I knew. You were tired and you were hungry, probably. I was so hungry. It ate Chili Zan Outpuck. Kili and C. Killing said, I really liked the secret horror cutscenes on the Majail.

It shows Kajima can do horror, and I hope O.D. does happen. Let Kajima do horror. Fuck, yeah. I'm sure you will. I don't know if I didn't get him or if I just don't count them as horror. What are we thinking?

Well, I don't know about secret. I'm just thinking about the one where Dead Man or Heart Man is looking through the window and then you go out and you talk to him and it's dead man and he's like oh I used to be you know I'm in the side of apartment yeah but I don't know if there's more I'm sure there's more secret ones as they're saying but yeah I mean there was

something with Charlie like the mannequin right like in one of the cut scenes I guess coming coming otter off from a mission like in and that just runs at you through it oh yeah I don't know if y'all got out it was I didn't get that I do remember that that was weird I don't know

I got the themes, though. Me the entire way, like, yeah, baby. He was pregnant? The wife was pregnant? They didn't even know. I like this is our final super chat here. Evermore, Dellen, says, I was wondering if this was Kajima's way of processing grief from his franchise baby.

And I like that line of thinking of, like, letting go of metal gear. Because I think this Evermore one came in when we were talking. talking about all the Metal Gear references here in the boss fight and this and phantom pained that and blah, blah. It's like, huh. Interesting. Interesting little look at that one. Yeah. It's funny because my read was that like, Kojima had gone through. I don't know. Obviously, we don't know Kojima's a person as much, right? But like, I was very much playing this. Like, man, Kojima's gone through some shit. I'm never going to know. But like, I feel like he's processing some personal stuff through this game. And even when we were there, we did our interviews. And I

think somebody did ask like, you know, what did you pull from personally in like your experience of writing, uh, writing the story for this game? And it was like the shortest answer that he gave out of the whole interview where it, which is, I forget exactly what it was, but it was kind of like, hey, we don't want to get deep into kind of thing. So I was like, all right, cool.

He's like doing a lot of like personal processing. Yeah, I like that angle on it because I think it's such a night and day uh, Kojima reaction to, in relationship to Metal Gear from Death Stranding 1 to Death Stranding 2. Death Stranding won, you know, right before, not right before,

but before it came out, I did that two hour long interview with him at RTX Sydney. And it was when we got up there and like, I asked like question number two. And he was like, well, I don't want to talk about Metal Gear or about Konami. And I was like, well, you have to. We have two hours and one cut scene from this video game. I can't ask you everything about Destrani. We got to talk about that. But he had been, when he left and it was such a hard breakup, he was so quiet for so long about Metal Gear.

And now you do see him celebrating anniversaries and talking about Metal Gear and showing Metal Gear stuff. So I think that's an interesting take on it here of grieving his franchise maybe. But I digress. It's time for our final thoughts for this spoiler cast. Blessing. Is there anything we haven't touched on you want to talk about?

That's a good question. No, I think we got the... Oh, one more thing. Did you guys do the race? Not the race, but like the motorcycle chase thing on like the road. The headless ghost? Yes. That was fucking sick as hell.

I did that last yesterday on stream. I was like, go off and do this normal mission, they're going to be BTs, and then it was like, now you got a race. I'm like, I only brought one gun. But then it was the normal thing of like, this is awesome. I need a gun. I stopped my car, I got off. You start yelling and they started yelling.

Well, you can hit them with your car. You don't need the... I was going to shoot these motherfuckers to death and I did. Good for you. Yeah, you can play like burnout and I'm pretty sure. Yeah, well, I didn't do that. Yeah, I like that moment. That's my last... And again, that's my thing of like, as somebody who's still playing and still doing these little missions, I'm hoping to keep finding stuff like that.

Jericho, anything, we didn't touch on you and talk about. You think there will be another game? Yeah. Based on what we see. You think there will be something, anything else with tomorrow. I hope. Here. I hope so.

I don't want it to end. In the interview, he implied that he would pass on Descartes 3 to somebody else. Well, I think that that's what this is. I hope that this would be the perfect moment for him. as a creative, as somebody that is getting older and has so many franchises to look over at. You have a next generation of Death Stranding. You have a new protagonist.

You have to give it to somebody else at Kojima Productions. You have to actually give it to a new team and say, hey, I'm producing on this. I oversee maybe the story details, and I'm out. And this is their own thing. That would be perfect. That is literally the symbolic move that he can make. But I also have a feeling where he's not going to do that.

Because he loves saying I'm out for every single Metal Gear game, every single Death Stranding game now and then he's right back there. I also think Death Stranding is such a bad franchise to do that with. It's such a Kojima thing. If you're going to do that, do that with a more straightforward action game.

I disagree. I think he can... It could be something different though. I mean, I'm not the one to sort of go through it, but you're already sort of separating yourself with a brand new character and, you know, we don't know what's through that gate that she's looking at, so it can be

something else entirely and I would still be... My pitch on it is that it is similar, right, you are connecting strands, you are connecting the chiral network, but it is more of like, you're getting people outside. You're getting people outside, you're building communities. You're actually like, you're not just going to like these terminals where people come up up in holograms.

You're actually trying to build them towns and stuff like that. Dude, a town builder, community builder, death-training game would be so fucking good. I could see it either way, but I feel like you stop here. You can't, bro. I think it's... Dude, they're going to make a movie, they're going to make an animation

movie as well. Exactly. That stuff's happening. You don't need to keep coming back to the game, right? Like you could let it live there. I'm doing me wrong. I would love a game

where I'm playing as El Fanning as this porter and doing, yeah, going through that gate and seeing what's up. I thought that was such a cool ending for it, but I think that's the thing is such a cool ending. You could just leave it there.

Do you think Kojima has sort of written the studio into a corner a bit with like how he makes games and like the nature of his games? Because like not only is Death Stranding like such a particular thing in like such a specific world that is of Koima's brain,

but also it's filled with so many celebrities and cameos and, like, so many people who are doing this because they love Kojima, right? Because Kojima himself has built these connections. Like, of course, you can get El Faning to star in a game if you throw a lot of money at her, I imagine, right? But, like,

can, Dest Training 3, if it's not a Kojima game, I think just ends up being such a different experience. Yes, and no, I mean, I don't know. Like, I don't think he has to be fully removed from the project, right? Like, as long as it is just like, hey, my limit here is that I'm creating, I'm doing the overall production, and then

I'm doing the story by, right? Like, that's my contributions to this. And then I can be the face of when a celebrity comes to town, I take a photo with them, and then that's pretty much it. I'll get Timothy Shalami up in here. Exactly, yeah, I don't think he needs to be fully removed, and I'm sure that they can still, even without, let's say, Kojima doesn't want anything to do with celebrities anymore, I'm sure they can still, just with the name recognition and how much

money they have, still get people in there. But I get what you're saying, though. Roger The only thing is connected here is I am very excited for the sequel if there is one so that we don't have to have Norman Rebus as the lead anymore

I think that this was my breaking point with him is that the first one I was like I get it I understand he is very quiet that is a different that is what they're trying to go that's why everyone is so out there and over the top is to kind of contrast his very flat performance

but man I am so I was like actually angry at the moment of like tomorrow is Lou and it's your second. It's your baby, your actual biological baby and also the baby you lost and you lost so much time with her. You lost 20 years.

Oh my gosh, but she's standing right in front. You thought she was dead. Holy shit. Here's the moment. Elle Fannie is looking at you. She's tearing up. He just looks at her and just like, just blank face. And then they hug. Yeah, it's up. You are my Lou. And it's like, what the fuck was that? Like he wasn't crying. There was no emotion there.

I need. I need somebody to be the lead of this franchise that is not Norman Reyes at this point, honestly. And I think El Fanning is going to do an amazing job. Do you think that's the actor, or do you think it's Kojima? Because I feel like Kojima... Yeah, he's not letting him add lib this scene, right? Yeah.

Because his characters tend to be a bit more, like, emotional. Yeah, I'm saying Norman Redis in general just because El Fanning clearly is, like, is working for me more, right? I mean, of course, it's probably the direction of Norman Reis. But, yeah, I don't know what the deal is behind the scenes. But El Fanning is definitely... more alive it feels like in this in the universe than Norman Redis is.

Agreed. So I'm looking forward to that. How about you, Greg? To close out this spoiler cast? Yes, Greg. A great game that I can't wait to keep playing more of. It would be nice to platinum it one day. I'm sure I won't, but I'm looking forward to more missions with it and more. And I'm excited to see inevitably when this comes to PC what they include in that ultimate edition.

What are they adding to it there? What are they doing with it? But yeah, part of me is hopeful that this is the end of Death Stranding because I'd rather see Kajima make new ideas and new IPs. I know we already talk about OD. I know we're talking about Fizant. But I think beyond those,

even this whole thing of like, he's like, I'm getting old. So I have a notebook I've given my aids that if I ever die, like this, you know what I mean? I want to see him create more new worlds. I was surprised even to get a Death Stranding too in many ways where I thought

death stranding was going to be that our first game under our belt is a studio. Let's go. We're small, we're nimble, we can do this. And now that they've done it again and done it so much better, I'd rather see them start new things and go from there. Both to wait and see. Hell yeah.

Because when those games come, ladies, gentlemen, and NBs, we'll talk about them here on the Kind of Funny Games cast each and every weekday on YouTube.com slash kind of funny games, Twitch.tv.com slash Kind of Funny Games podcast services around the globe. If you love conversations like this, we need you to support our 11-person small business Get your Kind of Funny membership over on Patreon.com. slash Kind of Funny.

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We are about to stream more video games with Blessing and Joey. For now, Jerica from JK Games, Thank you once again for hanging out with us. Where can people keep up with you? You can find me pretty much everywhere. JK Games podcast. J.K. Games podcast are for me and Kayla. She's my co-host.

And we are currently playing through Tears at the Kingdom right now. We're doing like a video game book club situation. So revisiting a lot of titles. So it's been a fun transition from dust running to Tears at the Kingdom. I keep trying to scan things and you can't do that in that game. Well, I love that. Everybody go follow Jericho. Blessing.

Rogers, thank you for your time. Kevin, thank you for making this work. Until next time, everybody, it's been our pleasure to see.