Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Diablo IV: Vessel of Hatred Review - Kinda Funny Gamescast

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

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What's up and welcome back to the Kind of Funny Gamescast Live for Friday, October 4, 2024. Of course, I am your host, Tim Gettys. I am joined today by it is Christmas in October. Joey Noel. Hello, good morning. The Big Daddy himself, Greg Miller. Hans Zimmer Live, what an experience it was for you and you got this shirt. I did.

I like that Hans Zimmer has merch. Oh, dude. I'm going to repeat myself a lot here. Hans Zimmer Live is not at all what you expected to be. He is a rock star. It is not just like, oh, I play classical music. It's not, man. We're not talking about John Williams here.

You know what I mean? Oh, my God. No shade to. You can't talk shit about it. John Williams. I have not seen John Williams do the shit that I saw Hans Zimmer do. I'll tell you that. I'll tell you that.

Williams played the Amazing Spider-Man. You mean, uh, Hans Zimmer? Oh, I'm embarrassed yelling off. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. He did not perform that last night. I don't know. He didn't perform it last night, but he did perform in 2017.

You can watch that. that live in progress. Fantastic. I have the Blu-ray. Atmos mix. It's great stuff. Anyways, enough about that for now. It's very important for me to introduce our guest today.

Returning to Kind of Funny, we have Zanth from the Diablo podcast, podcast on Pure Diablo. com. But more importantly, he's kind of funny. He's Diablo guy. Zantz, how you doing? I'm doing great. This is a great time to be a Diablo fan. I'm excited.

I've been nitty to chat with anybody about this. And we haven't been able to. So that's why I'm here. and I'm ready to not shut up for a while. I love that. You're in the right place for that because this is the Kind of Funny Games cast. Each and every weekday we get together to talk about all of the biggest reviews, previews and topics in video games live on YouTube, Twitch, and podcast services around the globe.

If you love what we do, please support us with the Kind of Funny membership on Patreon or YouTube to get all of our shows ad free. Watch us record them live and you get a daily exclusive show for a chance to be part of the show. submit your thoughts and opinions as YouTube, Super chats as we go. So if you have any questions about Diablo for whether it's the vanilla game or the new expansion that we're reviewing today, please get them super chats in housekeeping for you. You already got Rogers Silent Hill to review on Kind of Funny Games.

Daily, the stream after this will be Mike and Nick playing Zucosis, which is a new horror co-op game, I think, and Mike's really stoked about it, which scares me. You know it's going to be bad. You know there's going to be, it's going to be, It's going to be great content. I can tell you that. For sure.

And then if you're a kind of funny member, you can get today's Greg way about what he would change if you went back in time. And you can get... Terrifying to know what you're doing. Oh, Joey. It wouldn't be good for you.

Very important for everybody to know. Later this afternoon, we will be recording Joker Faliad. Very important for kind of funny members. You need to know because you get to watch the live recording if you're a kind of funny member. Otherwise, you're going to need to wait a bit.

But it'll be me, Nick, Joey and Greg Miller. Joey immediately on the town hall this morning, throwing me under the bus that I'm the reason she had to go see this film. Well, no, it's Andy. Yeah, but then you blame me because you said I didn't give you a choice in the meeting. You're a movie bro.

You know, the other movie bro is off having a kid. I need your help. Today, thank you to our Patreon. That was also after you, I don't remember what you put in the chat for the town hall. It was something along.

Did we fire Joey yet? Did we announce to were firing Joe yet? So maybe if I hadn't seen that, I wouldn't come as hard on. Superfluous. Real quick, I mean, speaking of the town hall, the big announcement, the one takeaway that y'all need to know,

is our first up-and-comer, the first of two up-and-comers that we're doing. Next week, Madeline Stanley will be here all week, making awesome content with us. It's going to be a blast. And with that, we are doing the Shining and Review, which is going to be really exciting because I've never seen it, and I can't wait to see it.

Thank you to our Patreon producer, Carl Jacobs, and Delaney Twining. Today we're brought to you by New World Eternal and Shady Rays, but we'll tell you about that later. It's time to start with the topic of the show. Diablo 4, Vessel of Haysel. hatred review. What a name. What a name for an expansion. Diablo's always, I don't remember the season of the Witch of the Fires. There's a lot of seasons. So that makes sense. Yeah. That's makes sense. A lot of stuff going on. But this is the first expansion for Diablo 4 launching on October 8th. Diablo 4 originally launched June 5th,

2023. Before we get into the vessel of hatred, I want to know about the core game, Diablo 4. How much time y'all have put into it? Joey, how much time you put in Diablo 4 before? this. Great question. I think it's between 1680 hours probably. I was trying to think of like on my own how much I've played versus how much I played in the office. It's always kind of hard to tell, but I think that's kind of the range

I'm looking at. Yeah, what are you at? According to my PlayStation clock, 150 plus hours. There'd be more of that because the review we did for the original thing was on PC only and wiped and I play occasionally on my Steam deck and I've played on Xbox and I've done all these things. But more

importantly, I've platinum it. No big deal. Thank you for all the help. I think it's a big deal. 150 hours. I mean, 60 hours. That's a lot of hours. This is the whole thing, though. This is the whole thing.

I've said it before, but to put them over again here, when I started listening to Diablo podcast, and that's how I learned of Zanth and met Zanth through the power of the internet. And it was that idea of listening to that podcast, and then I tweeted about it, and then he invited me on it.

And I almost said no. And when I did say yes and I went on it, I told them straight up. I'm like, I don't get nervous to do anything anymore. I'm nervous to be here because I know that to the Diablo audience, 150 now, right? Whatever it was in 800, I'm like, I know those are rookie numbers. I know that I don't, I don't even know.

I'm not about, you know, and Zanth was so welcoming, the podcast was so welcome. Mr. Sean Peach in the chat says $60 is not a lot, Tim, not really. Yeah, so 60 hours, not a lot. 150 hours, not a lot. Zanth, what is a lot? How many hours have you played Diablo for? A lot. So like PlayStation-wise, it's like 300 and then a lot on PC, which isn't tracked.

So I don't know. I put like 300 to 500 somewhere in there. Like it's a lot. But I'll say even like during the vessel like testing realm, I know some people who put in 100 hours just testing. We'll get to like how many, how much time we spent on the actual testing. but yeah, they go hard for Diablo. And it's pretty awesome.

It's one of the reasons I love the franchise and the IP so much is that there really is this gigantic scope of what it is. And honestly, for the most part, and it's not the entire part, it's incredibly welcoming. Like, you know, again, Zanth and his podcast, like his whole open every show is, right? It's for the hardcores and the tryhards. And it's like, you know, he reign. He says everybody out there that would be it. And that's how the community is as well, where even when I'm like, I'm a big.

Maybe it's not like your opinion doesn't matter then get the hell out. It's like, oh, everybody gets that like you can engage with Diablo how you want to and as much as you want to. And so then with that, we have this new expansion that, of course, we're about to fully review and get all your thoughts on. But I want to know your hour count for this one. Joey, how many hours have you put into vessel of hatred specifically so far? Not enough. And it was upsetting. This was like a perfect storm of having a bunch, being out of town a bunch and having multiple review games to play.

where I think I probably put like five hours into it. I got to level 20, which I was like, that's, I know, it's so fast. And I got to like the beast fight, which seems to like unlock a whole new set of things that I did not get to. Yeah. Exactly. Joey could have been playing Diablo, but I had to watch Joker 2. Joker 2 is now going to be my scapegoat for everything. But yes.

So yeah, not enough and not as much as I wanted to. playing stuff for review is so interesting, especially the way that I play games of, for me, Diablo is a, I want to play with my friends, and I need guides for loadouts and builds and stuff like that. So playing for review doesn't really help me with either of those things.

So it's, I think, a little bit harder for me to put as many hours in as I would normally on like a normal release. Yeah, and if you've been around for a long time, I think we're in the exact same situation we were for the Diablo four vanilla review, which it was like, Blizzard hits this up. I'm like, do you guys want review code?

And me, Joey and Mike are like, yeah, we do. And like, great, here it is. None of your progress carries over. And so it's that thing of the way I play Diablo and the way I choose to engage with it is, yeah, I want to binge Diablo and I want to do everything. But I want the progression and I want the season and I want to be unlocking and earning and da-da-da-da-da, right? So to be put into this test environment, which is great, thank you so much for allowing

us in there. It reminded me so much of how we reviewed what the betas were before, how often you know, blah, blah. So for this one, for me, Tim, I did my PlayStation clock on this one says 15 hours. I beat the campaign a vessel of hatred, but then I didn't bother. They've added so much to this in terms of what you're doing afterwards, the raids, the new dungeons. In general, they've changed the difficulties. We're going to get into all of this here and why we like it, what we don't, what we're excited for. But I knew Xanth would be a crazy person.

So I was like, I can play this the way I want to play this. Also, review Starfield, also review redacted, also do all these different things and wait for Tuesday when. I know we're going in the stream room, us and Zanth and Mike and going crazy. Love that. So Joe, you're so far around five. Greg, you're at around 15. Zanth, what are you at in Vessel of Hatred specifically? So I did 45 hours for the test and then probably about five hours just off of the game, theory crafting, playing with home on boards to see what I liked. So yeah, that would be about about 50.

And I kind of going back to what Greg said, this is my first time I've done a review. Reviewing games is hard. I did the math on that guys. That's like 20% of the time that I had of life during this review. 20% of that time was spent. And it still didn't feel like enough. Of course.

I think one of the common critiques of these game reviews is that, people really didn't get a chance to experience everything. And then you don't take their scores seriously or whatever it might be. And I didn't want that to be the case. I wanted to be able to say I did literally everything. And here is what this game is and why it is this actual score. So I think there's going to be some merit to the score that we're going to drop today. I love how seriously he takes it.

I love you. Kind of funny is Diablo guys, Sam. I love it. I love the day you're taking the series. I feel like it's actually an excellent segue into our actual review. Zand, this being your first review ever, I'd love to start with you.

You being kind of funny as Diablo guy, what would you give Diablo, vessel of hatred on the kind of funny scale of 1 to 10? With point five. As I'm like harking back to going home and like ripping open like a game pro magazine. Do you remember? their scale with like the little guy

and the thumbs up and the best scale. Honestly is the best scale. It really is. That's surreal. It is surreal to finally be able to put my name to doing that. I would say for this, it is a nine. It is absolutely amazing.

There are some things that I have some small qualms with. I think prevent it from that masterpiece level. right but it is so good if you have not played diablo since release this is a brand new game any qualms you might have had in uh in june of last year in july in august those are gone this this is a brand new start and it's only going to keep getting better it's amazing uh someone in the chat demon hacker was asking just for some comparison, what would you give Diablo for vanilla? At launch, yeah.

At launch, yeah. Well, that is a good comparison. I think at launch, I think an eight is a fair score. The story was really good, but it was, it fell apart at the end game. There were still some good activities. There were some things to do, but it got stale. The one to 100 in the initial game was much more prolonged. So you didn't notice the issues until much, much later.

So then your judgment of what the game actually was was flawed because you just couldn't get there. It was still good and it still had some good parts to it. It falls apart in the next season and ends a conversation for a different day. But in this instance, yeah, probably an eight and this is definitely a nine. Wow. Yeah. And if you haven't come back since June, if you're somebody who bought it at launch, played it, fell off because of season one or just never even got it to season one,

the stuff they've done in this past year plus is kind of outrageous to what you're talking about, Zanth, right? And what I found so refreshing both in their dev live streams and then conversations from when I went down for the preview event, right, was that like so much of the stuff they've put out since then, they had the conversation of, well, we were building this and going to hold it for Vessel of Hatred, but like Lute Reborn was going to be held for Vessel of Hatred. But they were like, well, why? Why make the game worse right now to benefit this package?

So I think all of that kind of gets wrapped up in the narrative of where Diablo 4 has gone and why it is so good now, even before you get Vessel of Hatred, which I do think is a market improvement. So with that, Greg, what would you give Vessel of Hatred? And then at the end of it, what did you give Diablo 4? Actually, we had a different scale. What would you give it on the new scale? So back in the day, I would have been, yeah, I would have given Diablo 4 and 8. Yeah, we would have been, I'm sure we did probably four to five or, yeah, I would imagine. That's where we were at that point.

And that was a review in progress, similar to this, where I think you're going to get a nauseate. amount of updates as you usually do with me and Diablo as we go through and see it and progress and yada yada right now I would only feel confident in giving you review and progress a vessel of hatred in talking about the campaign and the spirit born and I think those are at odds with each other in an interesting way where I think I think the spirit born class here right which will get into the weeds of but it's the new class it's you know it does you was anth when I told you about it didn't break any embargoes back in the day don't worry you know you were quick to go oh it sounds like a

druid, right? And I've seen so many reviews being, like, it's not a druid, but I see the comparison, and like, you know, you're calling up four different spirits that you can use of animals, right? See, the centipede, the gorilla, the eagle, the jaguar. They're all markedly different, right? Classic animals.

You can mix and match them as you go to, so you're using two, or go all in on one, and da-da-da-da-da. I think the class is so much fun to play. There's so much variety to it. I really, I said it in my preview, and I really feel it now of like, I went through this review period, and I made Chapel Rhone.

Shout out to Chaparone, everybody. That's my character I made. I was very happy. I'm not leaving behind making Taylor Swift. Of course not. But when I opened the character creator and I'm like, it just looks like Chapel Rhone, I'm going to rock it and I'm going to toss it out there.

And of course, she's in, look at her. Tim, that's her. She's H-O-T-O-G-O. You know what I mean? Like, we're ready to roll out there

and F up some demons. Running through making her, I went all centipede. So I'm just using the green poisonous powers and stuff like that. And I'm so excited now for retail to get in there and make a different character and roll gorilla but get some eagle

in there or maybe try Jaguar and it really is one class but I really do feel like the four variations of it make it feel like you have four different really class experience class experiences with it but the fact that you can do your reskill or respect so quickly and get in there and change it all up

you can keep it to one character right so you really can try different stuff I think that class is very impressive I think everything you're doing there is great I think that's a nine I think the spirit born class is a nine. I'm having a great time with that. I want to do more with it. I want to experiment more with it. The narrative side of it, right? Me and Zanth have talked about this on streams and podcasts before. Diablo's never been a narrative game for me, right? And there is a narrative there and I pay

attention to it. Don't listen. I skip the side quest cutscenes when the guy is mad about his antique beans being stolen by a demon and I got to worry about that. It's here though, it doesn't have a lasting impact on me, right? This campaign overall, I give a 7-5. I think it's good, right? Where it's like, okay, I did it and I think it would be more akin to being a seven in terms of a campaign, but it gets booted up to a seven, five on my scale, because they've listened to feedback, I think, from players like me, where my character, the wanderer, Chapel Rhone is involved way more than she was or whoever my wanderer would have been in the base game. They make a point of your character is in there. Barad, I've once, I think you

showed it, but the screenshot of her saying, like, I'm with you or whatever when she's talking to Neyrell. Like, you're in the cutscenes. You have lines of dialogue. and multiple times throughout the entire thing, where in Diablo 4 Vanilla, that did happen as well, but not nearly as much. I think they're making a push to make you integrated into this.

I think that comes with pros and cons, where I think the pro, of course, is I love being in the story, I love seeing my character more, I love seeing her have a real relationship with Narel and talk to her and stuff like that. However, it's the same complaint we had playing the base game that the fact that they're using your character

means they're using in-game assets, which I think makes the in-game cutscenes look not great. They don't look super high quality. The ones that are just the CG that are what we've already seen, like Narel in the boat, like that's what you expect from Diablo, for me at least. And I think because of their insistence on using our characters and cutscenes, you don't get that. But there's at least this, hey, your character's in it. You feel a bit more connected to it.

I like that. But back to it, sorry, that's, you know, on the plus side of it. The cons side overall is just like, okay, you're just going through it. I don't feel like we got to a really big, I mean, you know, Mephisto is the, you know, Mephisto is the, guy we're after here, Lil's dad, right? This all makes sense if you played the first part. And so it's like,

it's cool, but I don't think it ever builds to something that's really, oh, this was amazing. Oh, this all, it's fine and I enjoyed it,

but it still is in that Diablo bucket of like, cool, I'm not playing it for this. And no point when I sat down was like, can't wait to see what happens next. It was,

I can't wait for that next skill point. And I think I'm going to put it over here and my attacks will be that much more powerful. And then I'm doing, I've been playing with Rune crafting Tim. So I'm going to go in. I'm going to do, like, it's, Diablo for me is gameplay, and this has great gameplay. So, yeah, right now, review and progress is an eight, but I imagine that'll change, if not go

up to maybe an eight, five, maybe a nine, like Xanthas, I really get to experiment with the raid, and I didn't even unlock all the mercenaries, but I really like the mercenaries have quest lines, so immediately as soon as somebody who wants that, I want that party feel. It's one of the reasons I'm so excited for Dragon Age, right? I loved learning who these people were and getting them on. team. And so reading about some of the ones I didn't get, I'm like, oof, I'm excited to go get them. Just a quick question for what this expansion is.

Is it a sequel? Is it a follow-up story-wise? Like progression-wise from before? Yeah, we were left on, I'd say, it was Anthony, you called a cliffhanger, right? At the end of Diablo 4 of like, oh, where's Nehrel going? What happens next? Yeah. So the end of Diablo 4, you're given kind of a parallel to what happens in Diablo 1. She takes a soul stone, which was just a little.

I did get from Blizzard this week. Money hat. Can't trust this review. He got paid off in a soulstone. Thank you, Blizzard. I understand that first in giving my score, there's a dangerous proximity. I have Diablo tattoos.

Like, you know, try to eliminate as much bias as I possibly could throughout this. But yes, so she does end up leaving to go seek out how to fix this actual issue. issue and that's where we're picking up in Vessel of Hatred. I would agree with you, Greg, the story in this one while I enjoyed it, I think

part of it for me was I had different expectations of where it was going to lead. Oh, interesting. That's the one thing of the embargo is we can't talk about. We can't talk about the actual story. But I thought it was going to go in a different direction. I was maybe a little let down and how that happened. negative overall. I think like a seven, an eight, somewhere in there for story. But what really brought this whole thing up, like you were kind of alluding to, it's the gameplay. It's how this has

elevated all of the experiences that we already kind of knew. Joey, you don't need to put a score on it because you're not too far into it. But what are your thoughts so far? You would have given, you gave it eight to the vanilla. How are you feeling about this? I think It's hard to compare it to the experience of reviewing Vanilla Diablo 4 because with the way that we got early access in both review form and the betas and all of that stuff, I played the same part of the game like three or four different times. So I felt like I knew it really well. At that point, this, I got such like a brief touch on it. So I think I'm probably a little bit lower, but I think it's also because I didn't have time to explore and stuff like that. I had a lot of fun with the new class.

I went mostly the centipede and the eagle. And I know that as I was going around, because I respect like quite a few times because I essentially got stuck on that stupid last fight that I was on. And I couldn't figure it out. And I was like, this has to be my skill tree. So I kept respecting. It just, you know, again, people don't understand how hard our jobs are. All right, Tim, being reviewers.

They give us this beta client, great. You can jump in. But you have none of your renown from the original game. only have the base four health potions so I don't have like the nine or whatever I have on my main account so it's like I was like no crank especially with the new difficulty too I'm like now crank it to hard and then the times I'd be humble they're like ah fine go back dial the difficulty down like I just don't have the the required things to do this this way and that's really what I should have done but what I ended up doing was like I would just run around until I got to the next

level for potions so like when I finally got to level 20 I was like thank God I can upgrade um so yeah so I think I had a lot of fun playing with all of that. Like I said, that's not usually my MO. I very much like to be like, this is the OP build for this combination of things. And then I kind of go from there. I'm really excited to play more. And I can feel like the hooks being like, oh, I do want to play more. And I'm sad that we have to wait and then I can't play this weekend.

I know, right. Which is exactly. I remember a say, or something Diablo for a review of like, we were mad that they turned off access and we had to wait a weekend. Yeah. So I'm having a good time. I'm also like not the story person. I am the monster that skips all of the cutscenes.

So like couldn't tell you anything. And I'm sure that that is a detriment to my overall Diablo experience. Plus like, I don't know why any of these things are happening. But that's just the kind of monster that I am, you know? Zanz, what type of monster are you when it comes to the spirit-born build? What did you go with with your little animal friends? So like I said, I tried to do everything. I got really hooked on doing just a regular, it was guerrilla gorilla.

thorns build. So you were trying to get enemies to hit you. And then by doing any sort of attack, it was taking your thorns and pushing it outward. And it was nice. It was tanky. And I kind of hit a wall later on. I know a few people who are out there who are really good

at theory crafting builds. I reached out to them because they were in the test as well. So shout out to Macrobial Boy and Lucky Luciano. So I real quick. You said theory crafting a couple times. What is that? So there's various tools out there. I mean, we have some over at Pure Diablo for you to go in and get around with what the skill tree looks like to play around with the paragraph board and see how the numbers kind of all add up and if you can make something to become effective.

So just essentially playing with the skills to see if it's going to work, if the numbers math out to being better than what you're already doing or. Respecking without actually having respect. Got it. Theoretical. Pretty much. Cool. Yeah. Okay.

Sorry to interrupt you. Back to it. No, totally fine. And like, there are people out there who are much better at the math than I am. I'm an English teacher. I trust them. Sound like me and Joey. Or if I really want to all Google like best bill.

Right. So I did reach out to them because I was like, okay, I'm hitting a wall here with this Gorilla bill. What do you recommend? And they turned me on to still keeping gorilla, but it was Gorilla Jaguar with a lot of poison that was sprinkled in, and it ended up being an awesome build that carried me all the way to the end. So that versatility that you kind of alluded to before, Greg, though,

is what has made this class extremely fun. It's what I'm going to start when it launches on Tuesday. It is probably the best design class that the game now is to offer. Very cool. We got a super chat. What were you? I was all centipede. I did all centipede.

Which I don't regret, but I wish. It's what, all centipede is what I did at the preview event. And if you remember, I came back and I said I was going to make Maleficent. But then I got in there and I saw Chaparone. And so then I made Chaparone. But then I didn't really felt like that matched her vibe,

but I was too far gone. And I did it. And now she's dead. She's gone. Oh my God. I mean, she's lost the beta. You know, when I start again, I don't want to relive that.

No, of course not. Of course not. She's in the hall of heroes in my head. Good. right not in the game. In my heart as well. KJX superchats in saying wow, Spareborn looks cool until the witch doctor knocks on my door. Is that a dragon page thing? No, no. Witch Doctor is a class that's been a Diablo before. Correct. Okay.

100% but I don't think we're going to be seeing a witch doctor for a while. Yeah. I think we're going to follow the pattern. Okay with it. I think it's nice to get a new class. I think this class is amazing. I think logically the next class is a sword and board crusader, paladin, something like that. But, you know, that's looking ahead. That's another expansion that we could talk about at some point. But definitely not a witch doctor for a while. Speaking of looking ahead, I'm looking forward to talking about Diablo 4, Vessel Patriot, even more.

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That's ShadyRays.com and use code Kind of Funny for 50% off two or more pairs of shades. I'd say all I've been talking about the story stuff you were talking about the new class that we got tell me about the dark citadel Zanth what do you what do you think what is that and what'd you think about it okay so this is the one that I think I loved it

but it's going to be contentious going forward it is the first time in a Diablo game that you are getting what is essentially a raid like encounter you need a number person, bare minimum, one other person to do it with you. That's never happened before.

The other's always been like you can log in, do whatever you want, and then I can do everything by myself. No, I have to play with other people. I like it. I want to play with other people. It is fun to go in and experience this. And I will say the Dark Citadel, I was able to get a group together, not going to spoil anything. I think there's already content out there where somebody's going to explain all of it.

I think going through blind is an experience. Don't do it on hardcore. Don't do it on hardcore. Yeah, noted. You will die. Yeah, this is one of the things that I'm most excited to do. And I wanted to obviously do it with friends. I didn't want to just do it with the reviewer folks or whatever. I'm excited to do that with Joey Zanth, hopefully Mike, right, if we get to play enough on stream and get out there. In a Travis Northup's review on IGN, he was saying that dividing our group between two realities and coordinating a way to take down a boss's immunity shielding was some of the most fun I've had in Diablo. That sounds awesome, right?

This is some great shit that I'm not going to be good at. Does that resonate with you, though, that it'd be some of the most fun he's had in Diablo 4? Like, did you feel that way too? I think so at the end of like a lot of ARPGs, you put one big health bar on a monster. and everybody rushes it down until it gets to zero. Occasional mechanics in there that you have to think about. There was a lot more coordination in the Dark Citadel. Everybody had a different role that they had to ascribe to.

And it did end up feeling very purposeful. Like you walked away from an encounter thinking, all right, yeah, that was fun. I enjoyed doing that. It wasn't just rushing a boss down, seeing how quickly we can kill it, but learning the mechanics. And then obviously rushing it down.

until we could kill it, but it's still, it had more of a, I guess just general enjoyment than a traditional end of dungeon boss. Now, the question is, is it novelty? It's something new and like we haven't ran it to the point of it. But Wizard has done a pretty good job in how they're marketing Dark Citadel. It's not meant to be like this end all, beat all, like the best things are there. It's going to have good gear, but you can get all the other good gear anywhere else. It's cosmetics.

We're putting a lot of really cool cosmetics, which is something that people have been wanting this whole time of like, I don't want to spend money on the shop. I want to be able to earn it. Well, now you can. You just got to bring a friend with you, which is even more fun. There's a very sweet cap mount that if you're able to beat the Dark Citadel and the highest difficulty that you earn, that's going to be my target. I think for season one, or not season one, but season six,

is to go and earn that cap mount. And Greg, there's your challenge. We should go do that. I'm in. Yes. Let's get the fancy cat mount. I think that's, again, like, the way they described it, Dark Citadel is a new co-op, PVE, and game experience,

combining multiplayer mechanics with action-packed dungeon combat and boss fights. Players manor the Dark Citadel with any group size from two to four players and fight complex bosses requiring coordination, as well as split forces as you traversed on separate paths. By completing Dark Citadel, players can earn weekly caches that include powerful loot as well as Dark Citadel cosmetic rewards. This, to me, speaks to something that I felt would often be not lacking, but missing at least a little bit for me, when I would play so much with Jen. You know, Diablo is the me and Jen go downstairs in play game, right? And as I've said, as a compliment, I love Diablo so much that it is one of my comfort foods.

in gaming like we talked yesterday, but that would also lead to being exhausted from work and having a child and Ben or Jen going, Greg, Greg, heal, as I'm falling asleep. You know what I mean? So to have something a little bit more thought out, I'm super excited for not by any means the hardest difficulty, but Jen and I getting here and then doing it together

and then we do the thing where we split off and work a problem for different angles and come back together. Danny Habicki in the chat says, adding raid style extra mechanic sounds like another way for them to slow down progress and make beating a boss multiple times for drops take a lot longer and keep you logging in longer. Do you feel that way?

I would turn that to you. You're the expert at that part. I think in this particular instance, does it slow down a traditional fight? Absolutely. But it's not meant to be a traditional fight. All the regular bosses that you would farm for loot are still there.

You can go and go hit those loot pinatas as much as you want. This is just a different tailored experience with a once a weekly cat, cache that will drop with some loot. You can some loot at the end too, but it's really, it seems like it's geared more towards that cosmetic. I think they're going to tune up the loot that you might end up seeing at the end as well. But the cosmetic rewards, I think, of the biggest draw here as opposed to having to, again, visit the shop.

But yeah, I think that's a fair point. It is tuned a little bit to slow things down. But that's not always a bad thing. I think like slowing down and just enjoying what the game has to offer. is nice. Giving a little bit of active thinking, I think, goes a long way. I think that's where Diablo, for me and the way I play it, can get to where, like, it's eating cake, but then at some point you're like, I've had enough cake, right?

I was, I messed up, Tim, and I don't do that often, as you know. Whereas if you remember, I, I forget if I platinumed before, after I went to that preview event, but when I finally was like, I got a platinum Diablo and be done with him. It was after. It was after, right? where I sat down and went like the grind from 71 to 90 nearly was like I might have to stop playing Diablo because it was just so like I'm just smashing these things and I wasn't leveling quickly based on the activity I was doing. And eventually I got over the hump and started doing a few little exploits to get a little bit better. But it was like I when I put that down, I put it down.

And I didn't come back to Diablo until this. I haven't played the season, which is unheard of for me because I play all the seasons usually. So coming back in here, it was like, okay. but I appreciate already, even like in the narrative, there's a few different times where it is like, we have to go check on these statues or we have to go talk to this person. I was like, oh, this is shaking it up more

than what I was doing at the end, which was grinding like a lunatic. So coming back to the base game or even just base game, plus the different seasons, how does this expansion affect the base game itself and your experience with it? Well, I mean, they've done, like, there's a whole bunch of changes coming to the base game.

I want to bring up my notes because it's like outrageous, right? So now Max's character level is 60. Before it was 100. Now they brought it down to 60, Tim, which is a good thing because that means you get to working on your Paragon points faster. So now you have more, right?

Zanth, isn't it 300 now that you have for Paragon points? So you have a different... Yeah, I think it ends up being like 3.30. Yeah, so it's like you're into the end game faster and working on the boards quicker than you were before. Is this just for new characters? Or like, what happened to a character that was 100 before?

Zanth, I think they've talked about it. So if you were 100 before, you get squished down to 60 and then they will kind of accommodate the amount of paragon points that you would end up having. There was a PTR a few weeks ago where I got to experience that. And same kind of thing. I logged in with my previous 100 character and it got squished down to 60. And then I was like a paragon 220 or something like that, I think, is what the equivalency ended up being.

This sounds like a bad thing. This sounds like something people would be mad about. But you guys seem happy about this? Yeah, I was on the fence. We did a podcast a couple weeks ago where we talked about the PTR, and I didn't like it. I wasn't a fan of any part of it. I had some qualms. So going into Vessel, I was like, all right, let's just see.

At least I'm playing the Spirit Born and we'll see what happens. And the way it is all coalesced and come together is so much better than what I, had seen only just a few weeks ago. They obviously take a lot of the feedback. This is an amazing dev team when it comes to listening to feedback and applying it quickly. So they took that feedback in and that one to 60, Greg, you kind of already alluded, is such a breeze now where then you are getting into the end game or, you know, like the start

of the end game quickly. And that's where the fun really, really is. Like Star Wars. they've definitely kind of honed it. And so once you're hitting those upper levels of Paragon, it seems like a lot, but they've tapped it down. Tim, I don't know how familiar are with it. But once you reach level 60 or 100 before 50 before,

you would get these Paragon boards. You have two skill trees, essentially. You've got your regular skill tree, and then you got this end game Paragon system. They've kind of simplified it a bit. You're limited to five boards. So you don't have as much that it's kind of like eliminating some choice paralysis. It's a lot easier to put it together.

And then it's kind of like a set and forget, like, oh, I'm going to drop in a few points, but character gets a little bit stronger. I'm getting a little bit better. And by extending it to like that, like I said, I think it's around 3.30, you're always getting something at the end. The problem with the current version of Diablo for right now is if I go in, I'm doing infernal hordes or I'm fighting bosses. If I don't get a loot drop, then nothing has happened.

My character didn't grow in power. I've just walked away disappointed because I spent how many hours searching for something that never came. Well, in the new version, I'm always getting something, even if it is just a marginal, like one paragon point, I was rewarded for my time in some way. And that makes it just so much better because, your R&G is still going to be R&G. You don't know what's going to happen.

But in this particular instance, I'm at least getting something at the end. And do your point, Tim, of like, I'm sorry. Oh, I was just going to say, I think context for Tim, too, are people that aren't super into Diablo. You are rolling new characters every season. And, like, I probably have, like,

six or seven characters between all the seasons and all the different builds. So, like, you're not as, like, attached, I feel like, to any individual. When you said, oh, you're getting, squished, that's the wrong way to think about it. Playing on what you call the Eternal Realm, which is where you can play with your characters

anytime, really isn't the draw to Yablo 4. The draw is, hey, there's a new season, so you roll a new character. So rather than think about you're getting squished, you're getting to the end faster. So you're able to get to the cool stuff quicker and really feel like you're making progress. Again, to put it in my thing, right, I almost

broke myself on the game when I should have just waited to whatever they're going to augment the trophy to be now. Because if it's to get to level 60, again, 15 hours. I was level 50, I think, when I stopped playing. Like, it was that, and I wasn't even trying. Like, if I was in there and I was using elixirs and doing all this stuff

and playing on harder difficulty with my friends, I'm sure we'll be to 60, probably by the end of that, maybe the second string we do. Yeah. Um, yeah, I feel like it'll be nice to not have to grind all the way 200 for a lot of people if they haven't done the trophy. I imagine most people that want the platinum trophy have already gotten it. Yeah, of course.

But, but it'll be just a, a quicker way to get to the fun. And I think again, getting people into the end game quicker is a good thing so they can see what's going on there and try to learn why it's cool. Again, the kind of player I am, I am drawn by the cosmetics. I want to play dress up. I want to have the cool Chapel Rhone or Taylor Swift or Lucy James that I'm making up there and playing with, right? Legends. I have Timor Hussein as well, but I never put enough time. I have dirty Dom, mysterious. But it's like, I go in there, I do that, but it was like, on all these seasonal characters,

you can go look at my seasonal characters, Timiscares, and it's like only Diana of Themiscares from season before last is the one that hit 100, right? Everybody else is in 50, 60. You get to that point where it's like, I've unlocked the pass, and I am not committing to going another 40 levels of this and I move on to something else.

So you're talking about Platinum. You've Platinum Diablo 4. Are there new trophies in this game? Oh, yeah, there's new trophies. Is there a new platinum to just the expansion? I don't fucking know. Two platinums for one game? What the fuck are you talking about?

Is this its own game or not? I don't freaking know. The coconut tree over here? What are you talking about? You know what I mean? Come on now. God damn hatred doesn't get a platinum, Joey. What type of world are we living in?

I feel like I'm in the middle of this fight. A game? A PlayStation game can only have one platinum. A DLC can't have a platinum. So there's new trophies for this. It was the first question I asked during the Q&A at the preview event. They were very happy to tell me yes, because they just wrote them and I said, good on you. I appreciate that quite a bit.

Someone else asked, too, what I played it on. I did play on PlayStation 5. they were nice enough to wherever you wanted to play they gave you early access which again I don't want to say unheard of

but for Diablo 4 it was we only have PC test server ready to go so it was great to do that however what did you play out Joey I play on PS5 what did you play on Zanth I did both PC and PlayStation

predominantly PlayStation because that's just like where I prefer to play on and I can do it on the treadmill too I love that no it's fine I do want to call out and I'd be interested

to hear from Anthe and Joey on this. I played on PlayStation 5 and I don't think it was just a PlayStation 5 thing, but Sean in the chat had asked where I was playing, PlayStation 5 and I had bucks which is not something I'm used to. Diablo 4, vanilla

was always really great and I don't, I can't even think of, I shouldn't say ever crashing, but not in a way where I'm like oh, there was this pivotal thing that crashed, especially in the game where you're battling to a boss and I'd be worried about losing progress or something like that. And I was, you brought up Travis. Travis I Gn, in his review had a

paragraph about it says a year and a half into its lifespan it's a bit surprising that Vessel of Hatred is the most unstable version of Diablo for so far. It's nothing so bad it ever made me rage quit, but with multiple crashes, quests that wouldn't complete important NPCs multiplyingly and hilariously running

around the map together. Boss is becoming permanently invulnerable for no reason and more it was enough to occasionally throw a wet blanket over an otherwise good time. I had some of these but it is worth pointing out that we had the discord I went in and reported them The one that I had where I couldn't get my horse mount was a very specific thing that was happening.

And then I had a section later on where basically I was killing enemies too quickly, which then meant the wall that had been once visible that was gone was now invisible and I couldn't progress. For me it was, you know, rage quitting. It was of, I rage quit that night where I was like, I'm just trying to finish this game for review. And I'm stuck at this wall and I, you know, reloaded it. And then you have to run through all the same stuff to get back, do the thing. And it would happen again. And again, I reported that that's a day one patch fix, but it is worth calling out that I also had these issues. And I don't know about you or anything.

Yeah, I had some for sure. I walked in, I think after the first day being like, I can't tell if this is like the game not being great or if it's just my PS5 overeating. But I felt like I was rubber banding a lot and I feel like that's probably not the game. But one of the last bossish things that I did, at this point I had run it so many times and I was trying to figure out the right way to, beat the boss. So I was spamming through all of the dialogue, which meant that I never got the like, these are the things you need to do to beat this round popping up.

And I was just killing things and nothing was happening. And I wasn't getting that like final thing to beat that level. So then I was like, what did I do? Was I broken? It was also like 12.30 in the morning. And I was like, maybe I should just go to bed. But then I just like reset my game. And I had to like leave the encounter instead of,

Going back to town, unloading all my stuff and coming back. I just had to restart the encounter. So, like, mildly annoying. But again, yeah. And hopefully they're on it and they know what's going. Any problems like that, Zanth, for you? I know I had a better problem. I got really early access.

For some reason, I was able to get in the night before it's going. Oh, five hours. Nick Luntz up. Meredith, that's where he put in the bulk of that time. I got to play a little bit earlier. But I didn't have any major issues on my end. Everything was running pretty well. Maybe it was because I'm super special.

Maybe. That's what I was thinking. It's to be the chosen one, you know? There's two other bullet points here of new things added that I want to hear about. Undercity and Rune Words. What do you want to start, Greg? Rune words are the only ones I haven't experienced with. I didn't do Undercity stuff.

And I'm sure Zanth did and played 300. of it. Oh, yeah. Rune words are these things you're slotting into your weapons. Obviously, you've been able to, or in gear, your gear, where you've been able to do it before and augment it and make it stronger. And there's two types, which I don't remember off the top of my head, but it's ways to make your stuff stronger.

As a, again, noob, as a casual Diablo player, right? It's always the thing for me is I read it real quick and like, okay, sure, put it in, okay, put it in. And then I kind of forget about it. So I'm not a theory crafter, Tim. I don't worry about the build for the most part, except for when it was 100, and I was trying to do stuff like that.

So for me, it was just like, okay, you know, number go up, weapon do more damage. This run is, you know, working with poison, so of course I'll use that kind of thing. Is there more to it for use anth than that? Yeah, so ruins are split into two parts. You have offering and then you have something that will consume foring. So kind of like generator, spender, right?

What's exciting are a lot of the spenders. For the first time since Diablo 2, it opens up you being able to use other classes, skills. So there's a spender that creates meteors like a sorcerer, one that will create spirit wolves like a druid. So it's just kind of like this fun way to mix and match a few things. Obviously, just like with everything, there's a most effective way to do it. but it's really just a nice little flavor. There were something that I was trying to chase. I think that was one of my critiques with ruins is I really wanted one or two for testing.

I could never find them. And that's just due to a few issues on this build that they weren't dropping the way that they need to be. And I think on live, it's going to end up being a little bit better. But there was one thing I really wanted to test more. I just couldn't find any good combinations. And then what about Undercity? That's a dungeon. Oh, man.

So as we're talking about what this game looks like going forward, I kind of going back to that paragon, like, I'm being rewarded for my time. Now I can have more fun with my time as well, and that's what the undercity brings. So it's essentially it's a time dungeon. And Barrett, if you want to play the footage here. Oh, look it is.

What a pro. I know. So if you take a look, you have these different tributes that you can go in. And essentially, you get to augment what the dungeon is going to offer you in terms of loot. But take a penalty to your run through that particular dungeon. So you see it's providing negative time and then like your potions won't be dropping as much. So it's going to be harder, which makes sense because you're going to be getting better loot as a result. of it. And then in a second or so, it's going to move to the bargain.

And that's where it starts to get even more fun. So I'm already getting to augment what is happening with my time and what I'm getting. Now, here we go. I forget to click bargain. What if I want to choose how my loot drops? Maybe I want something that's going to give me ranks to a particular skill, or as we see core stats, there's even the option that if I wanted to maybe, maybe I'd I am not a spirit born right now and I wanted to get close

Uniques that I don't have for a different class. I could do that too. So I don't have to go and create a whole new class to get their items. I can use the one that I'm playing right now, run some undercity, get some experience for my character, and get loot for a new character that I might want to play later on. That's cool.

It is really cool. So game changing. It's just this like I get to control what is happening. I get to, you know, there's that cliche of choose the way you play, right? This is it. Like, this is me being able to choose, like, how this is going to turn out. And it's not a guarantee I'm going to get something I like. I'm not going to guarantee to get gloves that are adding to core stats.

I might get gloves that add to, you know, my poison creeper or whatever it is. And, oh, yeah, it's not what I want, but man, I had an opportunity. I'm going to go run that again. I'm going to go run that again. I'm going to go run that again. And there's that addictive Diablo loop that exists of like, oh, yeah, I'm not. Yeah, it was close. That was so close to what I wanted.

And I know how I can like do that in. I'm going to go back. I'm going to go back. I'm going to go back. I spent so much time in the undercity. Like I said, unfortunately the ruin system wasn't up and running. So like if you were using a ruin tribute where you weren't getting room drops at the end.

But on release, like that's where I'm going to be going and trying to get whatever I possibly can there. So with Diablo, want to go back, want to go back, want to go back. that seems to be the point of the game. Greg, do you see yourself when this expansion's out? Are you sticking with this for the long haul? Are you going to be putting like a ton more hours into this? Or do you feel like you kind of are going to see it through to get your character or

then kind of walk away? Oh, no. I mean, Diablo will never be deleted from my PlayStation 5 or my Steam deck or whatever else, right? Like, I think it's funny, I went back and looked at our review and there was a lot of, man, I hope this is my games as a service. I hope this is one that I stick with. And so to be here and, you know, with the PlayStation clock, 150 plus hours later, a little over a year later, like, that's just what this is.

And again, you know, I commend Blizzard for the work they do on this game, but being able to serve so many different audiences where, you know, for Zanth to show the undercity there and talk about the bargains and yet, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't, like, I don't think that'll be a draw for me because I'm just, I like, I'm very much like loot number bigger, cool, equipped it, right? Like I'm not, I don't chase. I see, you know, Rod Ferguson, of course, from the Diablo team. And I follow him on Twitter.

And it's like, he'll put it up. I got this role tonight. I did this thing. And I'm like, I don't even understand that. I'm right. Heart, glad you got it. So happy, you're happy. You know what I mean?

Like, for me, it is the, every season's going to drop and there's going to be a new battle pass with new shit to chase and a new, and a new character. And even for you, I know, we're talking very broadly and then very specifically. Like, when the seasons drop, they drop with new mechanics and new activities and new new things. So it feels fresh. So like for vessel of hatred to drop right now, yeah, I'm going to run through the campaign. Yeah, I'm going to do a spiritborn class.

And then it's going to be, well, what's happening in the season for me to go do? And then tinker with all of this stuff and probably more than likely fall in love with certain aspects of it and want to go do it. It is a crowded review season. But again, this is my game as a service where it will be that I maybe, yeah, I get my spirit born wherever they need to be in this. And then back off because I'm doing reviews, but then come back for season the next season or that da-da. but like Diablo's not going anywhere. My obsession with Diablo isn't going anywhere. I feel pretty similarly.

As I've been doing more reviews in the last few months, I did the thing that I really didn't think I would ever do, which is I deleted Fortnite from my PlayStation. Because that has for so long been my like default game as a service. Like I just play like every season we go back, we play it for a little bit. It's kind of like the easy jump in point. And now I haven't really been playing as much. And I think it's because I've been playing more Diablo.

Diablo is so great at being fun to play with people, but also. Rewarding to play alone. Yeah, exactly. I will never really jump into Fortnite into solos, like if I'm just like fucking around. I will always be like, I can go for some Diablo. And like, the loop is so good where you could be in for a little bit. You could be in for four hours. You could be in for 30 minutes.

And it always feels like productive and rewarding. So I think that's it. I think this is going to be here for me. I downloaded Diablo 2. Remastered, what was it? I forget what they call it? Resurrection. Resurrection, thank you.

Because they had dropped. I forget why we were busy with whatever it was. When I was on the other side of Platoneminger in the middle of it, I was like, man, I was reading Jason's book, which you can see on Zanth's shelf there, right? Play Nice. The Rise, Fallen Future of Blizzard. Great book. Jason will be through to promote it.

It's out, I think coincidentally on October 8th as well. Because if memory serves here, he announced their release date, and then they announced their release date or vice versa. I forget. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. And what was that? And we just had them on our podcast last episode.

Excellent. Go check that out. For sure. Diablo Pocket. Anyways, though, when I was like, oh, man, I want to consume as much Blizzard stuff as possible and I redownload it. But every time I would hover on the tile to start it, I'd be like, but why not go put more time into Diablo 4 where I still have things to get and stuff to do?

So, Zanz, obviously, I'm not going to ask you if you're going to put more time into this time. I know the answer to that question. Well, we're closing to the Diablo podcast tomorrow. But I do, Greg, talking about Diablo, too. I got to ask, is Vessel of Hatred the best Diablo expansion yet? Ooh. Tim, that's a good question.

That is a very good question. Because I had this conversation just the other day. Our Diablo podcast will come out later today and we'll have similar conversations. But it's close. It's really close. I would say it's better than Reaper of Souls from Diablo 3. Wow, that was a moment. Is that your standard?

It is, but like Lord of Destruction for Diablo 2 was the best. Like, it took the game to essentially it is what raised the bar on Diablo 2 to being remembered for what it is now. I think Vessel has the potential to do that. They're two very different games, though. When Diablo Lord of Destruction comes, out, it changes what Diablo 2 is, adds in a bunch of new stuff, but it doesn't have that live service element, so it doesn't have as much room for growth. It gets a few patches along the

way. But this one, it has more big things coming down the type. So I don't know. I think three months from now is going to be a good judge of like where it falls, but it's pretty close in my opinion between the two. Everybody right set a timer for three months. Remind me on Game Zaley, I'll call Zanth, and ask. Snowbike Mike heard Lord of Destruction from the other word, just walked in the room, just threw his hand up and walked out. Well, that's awesome. Very cool stuff.

As we wrap up here, any final words, Joey, on your thoughts on Vessel of Hatred? I'm so excited to play more. Yeah. It's going to be fun to get the gang back together, you know? Greg? Yeah, 100%. I'm right there with Joe. I think that's, again, the highest compliment you can give it, is that we put in 15 hours, all our progress is wiped.

And I'm not like, oh, I got to do this again. I'm excited. There's one fight that I'm not excited about, but now I'm going to make you guys. You know what I mean? Yeah, we'll be ready to go. Yeah,

I can't wait for more. And again, I, it's nice to see it pay off where it's not one of those where I was like, oh, I hope I'm with that game in a year and I am not, but I am here.

I'm still as into Diablo four as I was back then. That's awesome to hear. Zant, what are your final thoughts and where can people find you? Oof. Well, finding me is easily. It's the Diablo podcast on podcast services everywhere,

as well as Pure Diablo. com and Twitter no other social media I'm not I'm too old for the TikTok I'm not I'm not going to figure it out and I can't do a coordinated dance final thoughts I I think we might have said it you know when I was in studio it's a great time to be a Diablo fan the game is as good if not better than has ever been and it's only going to keep getting better. Are there still criticism along the way? Absolutely. I think this Deb team is locked in. And you mentioned Jason's book. There's a line in there when I think it's Rod Pardo is talking to Jay Wilson about making a Diablo. And essentially it says that you're going to get really good

at making Diablo once you've shipped a Diablo. I think that's what's coming true with this team is they made a good game at the start, but they're getting really good at making Diablo now, and it's so much better, and it's only going to keep getting better. So if you've been on the fence, jump in now because it's only going to keep getting better. Hell, yeah. Well, Zan, thank you so much for joining us for this review. Thanks for having me. Diablo Ford, Vessel of Hadrian.

Everyone go follow Zanthen. Go check out the Diablo podcast. Let us know in the comments below what your hype levels are for playing through Vessel of Hens. We'll be streaming on launch day, so come check us out. Definitely, Twitch.tv and YouTube.com slash kind of funny games to check that out on launch day. And speaking of all that, we're about to get a fun stream right now with Mike and Nick playing a scary game and it's going to be hilarious. But until next time, I love you all.

Goodbye. Bye.