Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Dreams is Awesome and Ashly Burch Drops By - Kinda Funny Gamescast Ep. 149

Episode Date: December 18, 2017

We review Zelda's second DLC, give our impressions of Dreams, and Greg interviews Ashly Burch. (Released first to Patreon Supporters on 12.15.17) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up everybody. It's me, Greg Miller, and this episode's brought to you by blue apron.com. I like the site so much. I didn't even write an ad for it. I can do this and talk to you about blue apron because I use blue apron. You might say, Greg, how much do you use blue apron? Right now, Jen has a blue apron meal waiting for me when I get home. Why do we use Blue Apron? It's simple. It's easy. The food is delicious. They send you the pre-packaged ingredients. You assemble them on their step-by-step sheet. You make an amazing looking meal. You take a photo you put on Instagram. You get a YouTube show about it. It's awesome. Now, what has Jen got home for me right now? I'll tell you what can. came out of this swing. We got Chitaki and black garlic ramen with fried eggs and kale. That's waiting for me. As soon

as I finish reading this ad for you that you should take advantage of. Go to blue apron.com slash gamescast. That Blue Apron is treating kind of funny gamescast listeners to their first three meals, a $30 value with your first order if you visit blue apron.com slash gamescast. So check out this week's menu and get your $30 off with free shipping at blue apron.com slash gamescast. Blue A better way to cook. And if I didn't go to 60 seconds, Kevin, again, just love blue apron. I really do.

It's easy. The food's great. What else I got coming? We also in this shipment got miso butter or pork chops with marinated apple and bok choy. Now, what's sad about that is I could really go for that meal tonight. But generally cooked the other one. And she was supposed to go home and not be home.

I was going to be home alone tonight. I could have made that for myself. We're skipping next week's shipment because Christmas. After that, what I got coming though? human and Sejuan peppercorn glazed pork Why aren't you doing Blue Apron? Blue Apron.com slash gamescast, do it. What's up guys?

Welcome to the first ever episode 149 of the kind of funny games cast. As always, I'm Tim Geddy's joined by one of the coolest dudes in video games in Toyota Greg Miller. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, if you need a newer used car, right? You said Toyota.

I was going to go right past. I did. I always say Toyota. It's how they say in America. In Japan, they say Toyota, but in America in America we say Toyota too. That's why we called you. saying it wrong.

Correct. No. You're saying insensitive? How does it mean? I didn't want to say that because that's a bad word these days. Is it a bad word? What can we say? Can we not say it?

Fine, it's Toyota. Anyways, if you need a new or used Toyota here in this country, the good old United States of America, I suggest you go to Greg Miller, Toyota down in San Diego, California, where Greg Miller is going to give you some good old deals. Shout out to Travis Zander for finally making a dream come true and sending me the shirt. Making a dream come true. Because I've know, if you're an audio listener, you're bopping around right now and your Prius

fucking pushing your nerd glasses up, drinking your macalate, saying, guess what, honey, I'm coming home and the dick still don't work. Let me explain. I'm wearing a shirt right now. It's a polo shirt. Says Greg Miller Toyota on it.

Because there's Greg Miller Toyota dealership candy, Andy, in San Diego, California. But I've seen on the internet forever, but never have the paths of a best friend in that place. It's Under Armour. It's an underarmored shirt. And this is the shirt you tell that you could tell that they give to like the more experienced saleswoman. Oh yeah.

You know what I mean? Selling saleswoman? Yeah, yeah. I'm closing and then I'm hitting the links. They bring him in. Oh shit. Damn. No, please.

No, please. What? I just thought he was going to hit something. I'll tell you what, man. I don't think I don't ever wear polos. I like pretty good on this. I mean, you look like you're going to sell me a car. But yeah.

I mean, would you like me to say a car? What do I got to do today to get you in a brand new Toyota? Prius. Not much. Not much at all. And also, rounding at the crew, Candy Andy himself, Andy Cortez. Hi.

Hi, guys. I liked that. Today's going to be a weird games cast. Weird games cast. We are getting ready. We're getting ready for our, the two weeks we're taking off for the holidays,

which means no kind of funny morning show and no kind of funny games cast for the last two weeks. Sorry, no kind of funny games daily for the last two weeks of 2017. But games cast will still go on. and Gog will still go on as well as party mode. So there will be new episodes of those every week.

So get hyped about that. But that means we need to record some things out of order. So this episode, we're going to do the what are we playing section. We're going to do the video game history section. And then in a couple days from now, you're going to do an interview with Ashley Birch. Thursday morning, Ashley and one of the guys from deck nine are coming through here. We're going to do like a topic of the show about Life and Strange Before the Storm. So that will be the second half of this show.

Yeah. So that'll be a fun thing for everybody to get involved in. But this is Kind of Funny Gamescast each year every week. We get together to talk about videos and all the things we love about them. You can get it early by going to patreon.com slash Kind of Funny Games. And you can watch it live with us or you can just get it early and listen to it as a podcast or watch the video. If you want to get it late, you can get it on YouTube.com slash Kind of Funny Games or podcast services around the glove. Kevin.

You can tell that we're at that usual part at the end of the year where it's all just falling apart. where you're like, we talk about videos and everything we love about that. Did I say that? Yeah, you left off the games part. Really? Yeah. I don't know videos.

I zoned out, but I noticed Greg make a sort of reaction, so I assume that you did say that. Everyone in the comments, let me know, did I say videos or video games? You talk about all YouTube videos. And also in the comments, let me know if it is actually culturally incentive to say Toyota. It is not.

It is. To say Toyota. So the commercials they run on TV. where that are licensed and made by the Toyota Corporation when they say it's Toyota deals or day. Yeah. You're thinking when they're- Coyote or Coyote. When they're drinking milk. You're such a weirdo. Do we need those? No, that was from my show. Oh, okay. So you guys went to PSX. Yeah, we did. Yeah. Friends for life. Got to see a bunch of games. You hosted a bunch of things looking really cool. Yeah, I did a great job.

On the PlayStation stage. Killed it. How? So if for those that weren't there, for those that didn't watch, what happened? What are the highlights, Greg? A PSX? No, just from the presentation they did, the presents. Oh, so Friday night thing? Yeah, you got to interview Shuhay Yoshita and Sean Layden. Yeah, yeah. The most exciting thing is something you and I haven't talked about, but me and Candy Andy have, because we spent a lot of time together.

Medieval coming back. Medieval, no. Was the fact that Sean Layden and everybody's golf fanboy. Greg, Joey, and Candy Andy, everybody golf fanboys. I'm going to try to get him in here just to play the game. Okay. Because you have some beers, just fucking play some. golf.

Don't even talk about anything. Yeah, you know what I thought it was a big deal. It was cool during that interview that he said that PSN name changes, hopefully. This question will no longer be a question at PSX 2018. I thought that was cool. And I thought it was a, as usual, like I said in the interview, an honest answer that I like, hey, we don't have the answer yet. This is a more complicated problem than we thought it was.

And, you know, we hope to have an answer for you in the next year. That was good to hear. Yeah. It was fun to talk to shoe about games and stuff. Obviously, fun to talk to Sean Layden about where he thinks the company is and what 2018 looks like and what what is this PSX right because that was the thing of the live chat everywhere the press conference where's the announcements blah like I thought it this isn't me throwing stones other content creators I thought it was really weird that like easy allies is doing

a watch along I was like oh but this isn't like that like what I'm like I didn't know that till later on when people like oh yeah you like in our subreddit people like oh you can go watch the guys watch a Greg here I was like that's weird isn't it like but like because we didn't do a watch long because we were like oh it's not a press conference there's not going to be something there, but I don't think that message got out. And so it was fascinating as I had predicted coming into it as soon as they announced it to talk to people on the show floor and see the online response to, all right, cool, you for the last three years thought you knew what PSX is.

Now it's very different. And I hadn't, in terms of PSX, you know, worldwide, the whole thing, I hadn't really thought about what PSX's show floor would look like versus what it's looked like in years past, where it was very, you know, there was the Days Gone booth and there was the of war booth and there was the Spider-Man booth but no playable there. Not even really running it. They were experiences, right? Like, go get your photo taken with the zombie bear behind you

and tweakers or whatever, freakers they call them hanging up and doing this or go to the Spider-Man thing and do a bunch of different photo shoots. Detroit with the fake humans or the fake Android. Yeah, they got a bunch of fake asteroids over there. It's really cool. So it was an interesting look for PSX this year. Yeah. They were just humans pretending to be. But they were

like on it. And I saw one dude like drop his phone next to the Android's foot and like in character the Android, like, he looked down and, like, reached down and grabbed it and, like, was like, you know, kind of, you know, not like doing the robot and shit, but like. Like the Westworld, herky jerky motion. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

It was, they were on it, dude. It was a great PSX, I thought, but again, you know, FTC disclosure, PlayStation gave us the free tickets to go to this and blah, blah, as they have for every event ever. As somebody who didn't pay, it was more interesting to go to the meet and greet at Portillo's or talk to people in the autograph line and be like, are you having fun? Are you liking this? Yes. But there were a lot of people were like, yeah, it's all right. I'm like, do you regret coming?

And like, no, but it's not like it was in years past. There was that undercurrent to it of like, this is fun. I love seeing everybody, but this isn't what it's been before, which sucks to an extent. I feel like now people know, you won't have this again. Because next year, if it's a real full-blown

press conference or it's another, hey, let's talk and have a long showcase, people will be ready for either. I would just hope they tell you ahead of time. I thought it was unfair that they started selling PSX tickets and then months later, like, by the way, no press conference. Paris Games Week was the real show. Here's how out of the loop I was.

I didn't know any of that was happening that night. Because just the messaging had gotten around that they weren't going to do a press conference. Yeah. Right. So to me, I thought, oh, they're going to record a video in a small studio. And we're just all there kind of hanging out. So I look on our calendar and our calendar says PlayStation cocktail hour or whatever. So those like people from IGN and Brandon from Musi Allies and a bunch of other people in the industry.

And we were just hanging out. And then they're like, all right, we ready to go. we're going to start rounding up everybody we're going to head to the thing and I was like head to what thing and we're walking and then as we're walking like a fuckload of people are in line like fans they're waiting for the event I'm like what

what is going on and they would be walking to the arena was like oh my god this is like they still have the three giant LED screens like yeah the arena's cool okay I had no idea any of that was at so many people you weren't here for the shows on Monday morning I love it I had no idea

I had no idea those I had no idea those things were happening. It's a little pomeranian, man. I'm just fucking going. So that was like, oh, this is, obviously I had a much better reaction to it because I wasn't expecting any of that shit to happen. So the consensus seems to be, for the majority, with the exception of some of mean, grief people you were talking about that, like, people watching at home were really disappointed, people that were there, had a good time overall and said it was worth it. Even the consensus was overall, I liked coming. Nobody was like, I fucking can't believe I'm here.

I feel like I've been ripped off. Everybody's like, no, it's cool. It's just different. It was weird, and we talked about this on Games Daily, but it's weird that they, you know, did double down on Paris Games Week instead of PSX when they had it and they knew it. And like, why not? And my theory was like they wanted to get ahead of the Xbox 1X and like try to steal some mindshare from that.

But I think that there's part of that. I think it is the part. Remember that like Sony isn't an American company or just a Japanese company. Europe's huge for them. You do need to do stuff there to remind people that, hey, this event matters. You know, uh, S-I-E, it matters to us. Like, there's a part of that juggling.

And I think, again, this is, and I want to make sure I'm not, I'm clearly not putting on easy eyes, right? Your fucking shirt. Clearly not putting on easy eyes, but I thought it was weird to do a reaction stream to something that I felt was way more akin to, hey, let's do a three hour up at noon where we talk, you know what I mean? Like, let's just talk about games. So that's true.

But so from my take on the whole thing is I'm actually surprised at how many announcements were made and how many games were shown off for the, the first time or dates were shown not for the big titles but for smaller things and like it's kind of what we've always talked about PSX being sure I feel like they actually delivered on that in the sense of they really doubled down on PSVR and there was a ton of PSVR games that they showed game play good yeah it was just crazy they showed sole caliber six gameplay they they you know went through and even if there wasn't like uh gameplay trailers or anything but god of war Detroit like all the demos that they showed or all the discussions they had

News came from it, you know? Yeah. Corey Barrog talking about God of War and how long it is. Kajima talking about Death Stranding in the first real. Mark Serney saying I played four to five hours. Yeah, it's like I totally think that I understand them doing a stream in the same way that like we didn't do a stream this year for the PlayStation E3 pre-show. And like we should have. That's interesting.

That's a good point of it. And I feel like they're very different things because of how drawn out they were and the style of this being a bit more. We're just going to talk. I guess that's just it. Giving commentary over people talking. It was a podcast over. That's the thing is I'm just traditional. I, in the sense of when I, when PlayStation's like, we're not doing it, we're just talking deep dive conversations.

To me, that ring so much more true to what we used to do at IGN when we wouldn't live stream something. We'd all just be in the office watching it and making news stories and bringing stuff out. I guess if your content like easy. I like too different now. Yeah, you're right. I'm just old as long. Yeah. And at IGN, we never did those talk over the streams.

I think they still don't do that as far as I know. the live watchman. Yeah, I don't know. I just don't think they do. But I think it makes sense that that they did and there's things like medieval being announced. Like that's a big announcement. I know it's not big to everybody, but that's Crash Bandicoot levels big to the people that matter. The people who care about medieval. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We were just, we, I expected there to be a bigger pop for that. Sort of pop for that. And it was kind of just whatever. It's a weird thing. Because I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm Mr. fucking old school and like, let's bring shit back. I love that. medieval to me not really something that I'm like, we need this back.

Like it's cool as a character, it's cool, it's kind of an icon of PlayStation's lineage. But him being in Battle Royale was like, cool. That's when we all thought they were testing the water to see if there was that weird thing that they put out. Well, not they put out. The thing that leaked, they looked like a CG, it looked like a PS3 medieval. Oh, yeah. Like six seconds of footage or something like that.

But what's really weird to me is I was, I remember them already remastering Medieval. And then I looked into it. They did on PlayStation Portable. So it was like, it's weird that they're doing this again. And I don't know. This definitely, I don't think it's going to have the same type of impact. It's not going to be Crash. The Crash did.

So it's definitely a weird choice for me. They're doing a full remake, though, like Shuttle Clossus and Crash, right? Yeah. Well, at least that's what they're making it sound like. They're also being really weird in cagey. They're done my 4K and all this. So it sounds like a crash type remaster. Are they calling a FurK again?

No fur K for this. He doesn't have fur. He's a skeleton, Greg. Well, sure. I was just wondering if they kept stuck with it. But again, that is a kind of big thing to announce. And then that in addition to the 4K Last Guardian. So it's not just 4K random little new projects or indie things or smaller titles.

But it was like, here's a real, quote unquote, thing. And wipe out the VR editions and all that stuff. I was like, there was a lot in that. It just isn't stuff that's going to blow anyone's skirt up. Yeah, I want to make a point. instead of 4K they could say 4K no bones about it

that's pretty good okay so you could take that they pat upon oh yeah but it didn't get a starring moment in that conference which broke my heart well I thought I thought the plan was that she was going to talk about it

with you I probably should ask that question I thought that's what the plan was probably should ask that question it's got caught up in the moment there's so much to do at 15 minutes with these guys right there's so many things to ask that I forgot that

after the show about the everybody's golf I wanted to get Sean a shout-up for that. After the show, Greg, being like, uh, man, it's, you know,

we're recording this whole blog thing and, uh, I just realized, like I was backstage with Kojima and shoe and all these people. Like, I should have probably should have been recording. Yeah, we're trying to do blogs,

yeah, or vlogs, yeah. And, uh, it's, it's a pain in the ass. Yeah. I don't like people want that stuff, you know?

So, you guys are there? You're at PSX? Yeah. Did this whole presentation thing to a roaring, applause. Everyone loved it. I'm not being sarcastic either.

No, it kind of sounds like you were, It did sound it, but I want to make clear. Fix your tone, please. Uncharted was cool. Oh, yeah, so Uncharity panel, anything from that? No. I mean, that was just to look back right at everything it's been.

It was super sad. But they said Uncharted five. Like, they winked at us. Nolan North and I were talking back. Oh, well, I didn't see that. Yeah, if you look closely, Nolan actually winked five times throughout the thing. Yeah. I see how I did it.

I see how I did it. But then did you guys play anything? Played a lot of stuff. Did you see Crash Bandicoot? Was he there? Yeah, I saw Crash Bandicoot. But it was weird. And Nack.

They didn't put his face in the right spot. Like it had the face whole, but he was like hanging back in it. So it was like shadow. It was very kind of creepy. It wasn't, I mean, it's already creepy that there's a human face. Him and Nack were fucking with each other. Really? Oh, there's nothing that makes me happen.

And Nack was scaring. The dude dresses, Nack was scaring people. There was along the PlayStation wall, like the room that you, the press room or whatever, there was some sort of like divot in it. And he was standing in there and it looked like a statue. And when people would walk by, he would like, yeah. I'm scared of. Oh, Nat.

Nah, keeping himself busy. Just keeping himself busy. Max's back, man. Knack's back. You ain't going anywhere. But did you play anything? Yeah, played stuff. Not as much as I would have to, but I played a good amount.

I want to start at the top, though, with the most impressive thing that we didn't play, but we got to see. And that's dreams. Dreams. Went to a behind closed doors demo for her dreams. An hour long. I went to it. I left and immediately found Andy. And I was like, did you like Little Big Planet?

Because Andy's, you know, he's a game developer. He's an artist. He's a musician. I'm like, did you like Little Big Planet? And you're like, no, pass me by. I never really had it. And I'm like, you got to go see dreams. Like I, I, because I came out super high on it, which is weird, because I've been not super down on it, but it's like, where the fuck's this game? What's this game ever going to be?

As the time to be weird on PlayStation past. And then get in this demo and have it for an hour, just go and ask questions. And all the answers are yes. And see how they've, because I was expecting dreams to be. on paper, the evolution of Little Big Planet. So Little Big Planet basically on PlayStation 4 with these new imps or whatever. And I was like, well, that sounds fine, but that doesn't sound like it's going to blow anybody skirt it up, right?

When you got in there and saw this thing, it's calling it the evolution of Little Big Planet isn't enough. It's what it is, obviously, but it's on such a different level on what this game is and why I think the community is going to flock to it and the way they're going to work together. Like, am I wrong? Did you see? Were you impressed? They built a game engine and a video editor and a music production software. So it's Mario Paint.

No, it's so much much. People listening to this who may have hung out with me at PSX, I told the story a million fucking times to like everybody because I was equally as blown away by it. Yeah, so they show off the campaign and it's like they said it's about a four to five hour story. and it's three different sort of style dreams that as you keep playing them, they start to intertwine. And they're different genres. So when you're playing as a little, you're the imp and you go inside the little animals,

like the little cute sort of puppety animals, you're a 3D platformer, and you're just sort of running around, hitting shit, unlocking things. Pretty simple 3D platforming. And you exit there, and then you're suddenly, that dream was inside of the man who's in the coffin with the trumpet.

it. That was part of his dream. And now you're in a point and click adventure. And immediately, I was like, can you edit this stream? And he'd be like, I don't know if we'll allow people to edit the game while they're playing it. Like maybe until you finish it. He goes, but I can do it right now as a developer. And he's in the game and he hits pause and goes into edit mode and moves the camera towards the clock and totally like makes the clock really big. And spins, it like off the wall. And then he clicks play and continues to play. And now the rest of the game has that fucking

the clock that was on the wall looking really weird. Like the tools and the freedom in this game you basically have Unity or Unreal or whatever you prefer. And it's going to be incredible to see what people make. The

shit that this game is able to do, man. They were create. He was like, let's create a 3D platforming level for you all. and so he creates, he has like a grassy sort of block and he has his little 3D avatar, little puppet girl, she looks really cute,

a little cat or something like that. Francis was her name. Okay. Name was Francis. And then he's like, oh, I'm going to put lava underneath here and I'm going to build a bridge over it. And here's,

I'm going to make this sign and this sign's going to say, no, like, like don't cross, don't cross the bridge or whatever. He goes, and I'm going to animate the sign. So really quickly with the 3D sculpting tools, he writes, no, on this sign.

And then he says, now I'm going to animate it. And he clicks on the sign, on the object, then goes to animate, and then hits record, and then shakes the dual shock four. And you see the trail that it's moving with the animation. Hit stop, and now the sign's just moving in real time. Like no matter whether you're in the editor or whether you're playing the game or whatever. And I was like, can you make the sign move? Can you make the sign move only when your character gets close to it? Like a triggered action, like how games, how game development works.

He was like, nobody's asked me that in the demo, but yeah. And then you see past the surface level sort of options that are in the game. Because the options are there for, I think, somebody who doesn't know anything about game design, the options are there to make shit and do really fun stuff. But then they have really deep menus that are like, okay, this is for people who have used an engine in their

in their past or whatever. And so he goes, yeah, I can get this trigger volume and it's just a big green sphere just like in Unity or Unreal and he sets it down in front of the door and when the character hits this trigger volume, let me connect this node

to the door animation node and then clicks play and he runs and as soon as he gets there the door starts shaking. And it's just the tools are there. I saw one of the tweets to kind of funny vids that were like, will this game be able to,

um, will this game mean anything to somebody who isn't super technically savvy? Because there's everything in this game. And I think there are tools enough on the service level that are really basic and shit like that. But then they have for the person who wants to go even deeper into it with ease in and ease out, animations on the camera and all sorts of shit like that. Uh, he's, let me make a song.

He starts making a song. And I'm thinking, oh, there's going to be really basic beats in here, basic sound clips. He goes, well, first off, you can record sounds with the microphone and import it in because you'll have like a second screen thing on your phone. So you record audio on your phone if you want, or just with a microphone, import those sounds. And he goes, I'm going to pick this option, this instrument. He picks like a marimba. And he starts playing marimba along to a drumbeat.

And he's like fucks it up really badly. And he goes, but I want to edit. Now I can edit this. So let me click on the Marimbo thing and then a full-blown MIDI keyboard like layout pops up, just like you would see in Pro Tools or Logic or anything like that,

fruity loops, and it blew my mind. And he's like, oh, here's the mess up note I pick. Let me move it to the right key. And the tools are in there for people to make awesome shit. And I think that there will be

a dedicated audience enough of creators out there. And I think the, one of the big things is the XP, how you level, So that's what when I left, because I know this all sounds technical and it all sounds like, well, I don't want to create. So why would I do this? And it doesn't matter.

So the same thing that turned people off to Little Big Planet, right? Again, with the evolution method here, I think is where it gets fascinating that I really believe, obviously the media molecule fans that are out there already, the community that was behind Little Big Planet is going to get into this too. But it's going to have its own ecosystem. its own universe, its own focus on collaboration in a way we think about collaboration with YouTube and all these different things. This is going to be, I can easily see looking at this game, dreams, how once this gets into the wild, you are going to have your own ecosystem of how the games are or the levels are consumed and played, but then this own ecosystem of creators, I can see your own ecosystem

of people making, so let's just dial it all back. XP in this game, you're earning no matter what you're doing. You're playing the game, you're building levels, you're doing all those things. This XP bars filling in, and it's color-coded, and it's like, so it's kind of like a thermometer, a thumbs-up and thumbs-down on YouTube, so you see what's happening.

So at a glance, you can see what it is. Your XP and what your dominant color is, or any colors, I assume, then gets you ranked so people see that, oh, man, you play a lot of levels. You're one of the best players. Oh, man, you create a lot of levels, and you're high on that ranking.

Oh, you curate playlists. and you're really good at that. You're going to be up here. Because now, if you just want to play shit, you can get XP and be rewarded for that of playing it, putting together a list, and then having people come and see it. Then you can, in a little bit of planning stuff before,

you could create objects. You could create this La Croy can, right? And then somebody comes to your level, gets it, uses it, and it goes out that way. But you start to create the level to get someone in there. Here you don't. You can go create just the little Recroy can. You're going to be able to sculpt that.

You can, like Andy was saying, you can record any sound you want in this game. If you have a nice podcast mic, you can use a nice podcast mic. So think about what this means is that you're going to have your own ecosystem now of voice actors. People you play other levels. You're like, oh, that guy was really good. I'd love to have him in my level. You're going to be a, hey, my band would love to get our music out.

What if we upload it and put it into this little big plan thing? You're going to be able to build levels with each other. So I can make a level invite you to to it. And then eventually you'll be able to live build together, which sounds like to be a. colossal cluster fuck, but medium molecule can figure it out. But you can pass the baton off and off, right? So it could be that I go in there and I build the level.

Andy comes in, he makes the backgrounds, paints the backgrounds, and puts those in, you're making music or vice versa, whatever. And so now take everything I've just talked about on a very top level and apply that ecosystem I'm talking about these levels, where it's going to be, I can easily see in our community the people who fall in this level of this game be like, I want to make a kind of funny level. I want to make this.

I want to do that. They all do that. They collaborate. They make it. Then I can easily see in this ecosystem, people being like, cool, we've just made this level. Who's the number one curator on this thing? All right, Jones 321 is.

I can see Jones 321, as they will be, being so up on the fact that they're the top curators being like for business inquiries. Email me your levels here. Suddenly, we now have inside of this game, game developers and game personality, journalists, whatever you want to call them. I mean, literally what I was doing with Little Big Planet IGN of like, send me your levels and I'll play them and every week I'll put together a top 10 list. If somebody's doing that and then I assume there'll be YouTube shows based on that and

podcast based on that. Like the tools they're giving to players in this community extends so far beyond I want to create a level to go jump around in where it literally is going to be, hey, like, man, I always bitch about this Superman game, right? Like, you know, I'm like, oh, that'll be funny. What if somebody out there is that good, right? What if there's somebody who just wants to create the 3D type models of the Justice League that you can animate and move?

The question, and then when you really want to get into the in depth of this, right? In the demo, somebody asked like, oh, so like when you bring in your own VO that you've recorded, their mouths just auto sync and like, yeah, yeah, it'll just move. If you want to, though, you can go into the puppeteer controls and assign those and keyframe. And then you're really into it. And again, to the whole thing of like, oh, well, you know, I don't want to create levels. Sure. Hopefully you want to go play stuff, especially cool stuff.

And especially if the story is short and it's motivating you to go play other stuff. But then also when you go in to look at stuff, it's not just, oh, here are levels. It's going to be, hey, here's stuff to play. Here's just art. Like you use the paint tools to paint something. Here's movies you watch. Again, think about this. Like, people can go in, like, I want to make fun of Batman movie Superman and Martha.

I go get the best Superman. I go get the best Batman. I put him in there. Andy makes me the background. We sit there and record dialogue. It's red versus blue on the PlayStation in a game right there. That again, perhaps that doesn't speak to every creator, but it should speak to people wanting to watch funny stuff.

And even if it doesn't, it speaks to them building it there, clipping it out and uploading it to YouTube on their own, right? I think it's going to have so many possibilities for streamers and stuff like that to like try to make stuff while people are watching you and have it be this collaborative experience with viewers and, 100% with viewers and shit like that. And I was on the blog cast talking about it

and I still don't have the answer yet because we don't have the game and it's so ethereal right now. It's just all it is is possibilities this wide open thing. There's something here and I don't know what it is of how we work with the audience

but there's something here. I want to do a games cast I think or even a Gallag topic right? So it's like let's pitch a game. This is what we want it to be not talk about a genre but what's happening in it

and what the main character and like that and then put it out to them and give probably a couple of a couple couple weeks, but like a month, you know what I mean, to see who takes that and does the most interesting thing with it. But again, it's not going to be like it wasn't a little big planet where it's like, cool, I'm running over here and I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, and it's

going to be ugly and choppy. It's going to be that I know I can do this one part really well. I know that I want this. It's going to be kids who, cool, I'll make the thing. My pitch for it, though, Greg, is I want you to be the narrator. Can you read these lines I wrote? Sure, I can. Send that, like, it's all of a sudden, like, I can't even describe, like, the possibility of it all. And I know we talked about the possibility earlier with Andrea, because Andrea is in the same boat as us of like, this fucking game,

what is this? And I know a possibility is a hard thing to quantify in what it's going to be. I think the game's going to catch a lot of people off guard. I think it's going to do better than we think it's going to do. Because I know Andrea and we were all having a conversation back there, like, what is this game actually going to do when it comes out? Can it be more than a critical success?

I think it can because the level, I looked at of them playing that they made. I was like, that looks fun. I'd love to play this, let alone getting in there. And if it is cool, I think the thing they might have overloaded Little Big Planet with originally was in terms of trophies and how to prod a PlayStation audience, and that's me, is that the campaign went out longer than four to five hours or whatever you said it was.

If that ends and it is now, cool, play this, do this. You're getting XP, right? Just play 10 levels today. Okay, cool. Go vote on these many creations. Go do that a day. If they keep it like a games as a service without microtransactions. you to hell and doing these things.

There's a reason to come back, explore it and find your niche in it. And that's the thing that'll be hard to do for somebody, I say somebody like me that's just a player, but I'm totally into, yeah, I can't make something, but I can come up with ideas. Yeah, I could write dialogue for a game.

Yeah, I'd love to lend my voice to community creations. And then it's this fucked up thing, right? Of like, when you make the LeCroy can, Tim, right? And somebody goes and uses the little LaCroy can, but they change it and they modify it and they put it in their level. you still get the XP for creating the original La Croy can based on it.

So it is again inspiring you to collaborate with each other because sure I give it to you and your level blows up far beyond anything I ever did but it gets my creation out in front of you and people know they can come to me for that because again the XP's off the charts and you see me there. Think about what this could do for

kind of fun of doodles. Yeah. Like because I think of the old the old Funhouse Dools that they had where they had like this fan who was 3D animating stuff. And he stopped because it was like too expensive or whatever. And like...

Those are cool, though. They are, yeah. And this, you'd be... It'd be machinimating, walking around with your character, talking, and the mouth of the movement. And the cool thing that I hadn't thought about with their mentioning is like, yeah, we want Kojima to make his dream. We want Del Toro to make his dream.

We want these internet creators and personalities to make their dreams. And not even that they would be games. But they could just be like interactive experiences that you walk into and like, oh, there's fucking James and Elise's fucking puppets. You know, like just stuff from like the inside jokes. The, I don't know, there's so many things that could happen in this. And they sound like they've taken a lot of the lessons. And I, you know, as a little big planet fan, a lot of the lessons that, you know, held me back from creating or wanting creators. I mean, they're like, cool.

You know, we're talking to them about tutorials. I don't know if your demo went into this. And the fact of the old thing, right, well, it was like, all right, cool, little big planet. the toolbox slowly unlocked. And for me to unlock it, I had to watch a video, which is watching a video, it's just talking to me, me coming out, and like, wait, what the fuck I was it? I'm having to watch a video. Now the videos are all going to be online or off, but through your phone. Because what they found is you doing it while you, like step by step, it's like cooking, right? It's like blue apron where it's like, oh, I get that. That makes sense to me. They're going to

have, you know, rather than boring tutorials, they're still searching for a name. They were saying, but dreams to finish where you jump in and like the level's like 75. percent there. We need you to do this, that, and the other thing up there. So it's like, Adobe Premiere tutorials where it's just like, oh, here's a project to jump in to learn how to do the different things. And, like, you know, in my demo, like, you know, somebody who made really bad little bit of planet levels to get the trophies, but enjoyed it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, actually sat there for hours up at three in the morning and like, fuck. The things that stand out to me the most, Tim, when I'd be making these levels, I'm like, cool.

All right, it's finally there. Hit save. Now I'm going to go do the play test. And sack boy would fall in. And all the shit I thought I had plastered to the wall would fall down to the ground and crash. I'm like, fuck. and I go through there and figure out the nodes and connecting all the shit.

And so like the first thing I asked when they were dropping the planks over our lava, I was like, are you telling it? Are you sticking it? It's like, no, it's just gonna, it knows to sit there. And then when they wanted to do the moving platform, again, they did what you were talking about, right?

Where they clicked on the platform, clicked record, and then just use the gyros and the PlayStation controller and move it back and up like that and back down. And yeah, it's like, hurgy, jerky a little bit, obviously because your hands shaking and doing this. But once that was done,

it was like, that's such a huge, that's such an elegant solution The guy walked over there, jumped on it and just waited for the platform. Because in my levels, that was always the thing of like, it was. All right, cool. It's like a connect. Or yeah, connects, right? One of those the metal things that kids use where a rector set would even better.

Yeah. Where you're like, okay, cool. Put the thing there. Put the thing there. Drag the line. Connect them. That's a thing that'll set it off. Inevitably, it wouldn't do what I wanted.

I didn't understand why. And it was like 45 minutes of trying to solve that one fucking problem that I then need to repeat forever. Whereas with this one, I don't care for my. levels what I'd be making of a herky jerky thing moving around but it was like can you still go in and do it like you could frame out the frame yeah yeah it's fucking so awesome dude I mean I can't believe you guys are as high on it and that's what everybody said like you you guys were joking around about it because it was you Jen and Joey out in the lounge while I was getting

this demo and I came out and you guys were what were you were saying we're like sitting there like what do you think Greg's gonna say like is he gonna hate it we're taking like bets almost like yeah and you walked out and I mean even with what you guys are saying To me, and not to sound too pessimistic. I just cannot. Like, there needs to be levels to the success of this because I do think that this can come out and like hit in the right way in the same way Little Big Planet did.

Yeah. And speak to an audience. I feel like Little Big Planet's probably not. I don't even think this will be as big a hit as Little Big Planet. But things are also different. There's way more PS4s in the world. There's way more people that are just down and invested in Sony now than there were then. So I don't know.

I don't know what it is that I'm trying to say. I don't think it'll do as well as this. or that or whatever. And that's the thing I guess is that I, for something we just had sprung on us, right? And I mean, literally, I landed on a plane today and came right here. Like, I find myself vacillating too of like what I think it's going to do. And it's that thing of like, I think it hurts them not having sack boy. I think it hurts them not having, because that was the thing. I don't want to create a little big planet. Oh, don't worry. You're getting a great platform or some people thought it's too floaty, whatever. But you know, you're getting a platform. At least a little bit. No, that's a good point. I think another thing to me. And again, this game is not something to speak to me. So it's like I had. Don't even need to give my input on this because it's like I'm not going to buy it. I'm not going to play it like totally not for me. But when it comes to creation games where you make your own thing and you can also download others or whatever, even going back to like RPG Maker 95 or whatever, I had such a good time getting into that, not building, just finding curated lists and playing through stuff and enjoying that.

And then Little Big Planet to me was also a little bit too much and I didn't really like how it felt. Mario Maker obviously speaks to me a lot more because I like Mario a lot. And I feel like that game worked for a couple specific reasons. The creation tools, extremely clear, extremely easy. And there was also the game pad that allowed really easy and digestible ways to create the levels. And then obviously playing it. It's Mario. You know the rules of that.

For this, everything you're saying, this music creation and all that's like, wouldn't you just rather do that on a PC? Like, wouldn't you rather have the versatility to go in and like change things or plug in a keyboard and do it? I guess where it comes to where, like, for the person who is at home and is an inspiring game developer or just wants to see what it's all about and doesn't want to download Unity or Unreal, and doesn't want to buy a keyboard and download a music production suite, or download a video editor or whatever, like, it's all there. Yeah. It's all there for you. The, I think even to the experiences that they show to us that, like, you could just enjoy as a gamer. I'm sure they play the one where you're running it towards the camera for a while. Who knew the eyeball?

Yeah, with the pulsing music. And the music just gets fucking doper as you keep going on or whatever. And then they're like, oh, and then here's a sort of like horror sort of jump scary one. And you're like a creature in like a black and wide world or whatever, you're kind of walking. And then like, boom, jumps scary. And like, oh shit. Like you can do. So many things can be made in this game.

And I think that's something that worries me, though. That's what I'm saying about with Mario. It's like there's limits. Like there's rules and those rules are like understand. It's a 2D platformer. Yeah, exactly. And it's not just a 2D platform. It's Mario.

Like very specifically. This, I think that there's going to be an even bigger kind of gap between the quality and just the trash than even Mario Maker. And there was so much damn trash in that. And finding them was hard. It does sound like, and I believe they'll have a much better creation process and reward system and all that all the xp stuff that sounds great i love the idea of building something giving someone else getting xp for that yeah like there's a lot of love being put into this game

but it's just right now it sounds like i think the lack of a sack boy the lack of a tangible like thing is is gonna you have your imp right and maybe they're gonna in the we've seen it before and whatever it was cute when they were like oh who like they kept going through them and the beginning to them and like all right shout out when you want one and nobody shout out was like go back to the world classes and they went back like five to this guy's classes like yeah it looks like me let's do it like you know i think the i think it takes the right all it'll take is the right youtube group like when i see people fucking around with like gta online and like weird fucking physics and like things getting hidden flying places and like and people really jumping in on that like oh i really

want to mod my stuff but i don't have a piece here or whatever like you can do a lot of that here and i i think i agree with gregg i think it's going to be more successful than we thought. But I also thought arms is going to be a huge hit. But then like, I don't know. It's not a bit bad about. Yeah. I kind of get a similar read.

I understand it as much. There's a lot more you could do with it and stuff. But like, Project Spark came and went. Like, do you see this kind of being different than that? I do. 100%. And I think Project Spark is probably like,

the platform wasn't as successful as it needed to be at the time. I don't think they had already engendered that kind of audience. Because again, there's people who never left Little Big Planet. There are so many people still. still playing Little Big Planet right now. I mean, Snake Pass. Like that's the story. Yeah, right?

And it's the thing that, uh, there, you know, they are running, I guess a closed alpha or whatever, where people are, during our demo,

they were jumping into new levels that had just been uploaded by their people out there. And they talk about all of them, like, how do they do that? And they have to go break it down and go back that way. I feel like, I understand where it's going to,

it seems like too much as a little bit of planet, as a person who did the IGN article, right? Like, it was hard to find good stuff. And people would recommend shit and you jump in there and it was garbage. but it was what they were making and it's great but the people who made amazing things stood out. Intro to Final Fantasy 7

just think about this though like there's going to be an article one day on IGN of right of like holy shit they just put up this 2D platformer it's got an original soundtrack by Megaran this is how you know what I mean the art's done by this like that's where it's I mean like and it's not that far out of the norm like if we were

going to do a level to hit up Troy Baker and be like hey we need you to voice this kid like yeah that's all possible in here and I think I said it earlier and it was the first time I said it, but the more I've reflected as we talk, like really think about dreams right now, at least from what we've seen. And again, this is off of a one hour demo, right? Like, who the fuck knows?

But the caliber of media molecule, those tools they've built here, I really see it as it, now that I're talking about it, as not just another platform or another creator, is more of a games as a service where the service is what Little Big Planet always claimed to be of infinite levels and things. But this is infinite movies and infinite levels and infinite chances to create and get together and do cool shit like that. Like what you're talking about with YouTubers, that's going to be the thing of,

yeah, where there's going to be a group that's just like, this is what we do. Or we're going to, like, think of it. There has to be a no-clip documentary eventually, right? Of the group that's been so successful and here's their new opus they're working on, it's going to be this 40-hour RPG or some crazy-ass bullshit. It's fucking cool.

I'm so happy that you guys are stoked on it. Very, very, very surprising. What to bring down the excitement, Tim. Yeah. That's what I do. But lastly, I just want to say, I can't wait to get into with VR and 3D sculpt. Yeah, that's good day. I'm so excited for that.

Like, that's not going to be ready to go right away. They're making this day one. That's another surprise. I would have bet money would have turned into a VR exclusive game last year. Sure. And to see him come back with this kind of like reintroduction and for, I haven't seen any negative press about it. Yeah. Everyone that has seen the demo has been like, holy shit.

Yeah. So. Yeah, the only negativity anybody says is just like, it's hard to explain. And like, how does that translate then to sales or people getting into. caring. But I really do feel that if you get in that hardcore medium-allical fan base and they get in there and they are making amazing shit, I think it takes care of itself. Yeah, that'll be it. And I do think it'll be enough to bring people in, especially when they see something cool when it is something totally outrageous that MERS wrote a new fucking rap song for this level or something.

They made a joke about like, what are you going to do with all the levels that's like are just a bunch of dicks and stuff like that? Like people are just making like porn or like weird dicks or whatever. and they're like, they joked it like, oh yeah, we were going to sell a game for $1,000 called Nightmares, and it's just all the shit that we've banned from the community. And I'd like, that'd be fucking cool. That's really funny.

That's really funny. So while I was not at PSX, I was playing a little game called The Legend of Zelda, Breath of the Wild, DLCPAC 2, Champions Ballad. Oh, man, he just rolls off the tongue. It does, it does. I didn't play the first DLC,

the, like, Master of Trials or whatever. was called when it came out. I wasn't interested in. I wanted the story. Yeah. And so they were saying this DLC Pack 2 is going to be the story DLC. They announced it or they showed it off of game awards and they were like, it's available tonight.

I was super excited, downloaded it and I played all weekend. It's, I would say approximately six hours long. Maybe you can get, I didn't do any of the like armor stuff that you can get like all in the trailer they showed where it's like, I did. When you do the quest, you eventually get the bike. That's the end of it. I didn't do any of the stuff where you get like the lobster pants or the, you know, Ganendorf armor or any of that stuff. So just like the main quest in it, I would say, is about six hours long.

And it is kind of a letdown, I would say. Oh, wow, really? Yeah, I would say overall it was the most Nintendo has let me down in 2017, with the exception of the Nintendo presentation that they did in January. Yeah. Whereas I just expected more. I feel like Nintendo's been really good at DLC for its games in recent history in recent history I mean since they've done it really which hasn't been too much but when they do I've been a big fan when it's Mario Kart 8 adding two whole grand prix like that that's a lot of content

especially with the F zero levels and the high rule and all this stuff it's like it was stuff that people actually wanted and then with obviously smash brothers the adding so many new characters so many more than anyone would have expected and I I loved that and firing them. I feel while a little on the pricey side, like the 3DS games always have great DLC plans with so much content. So for this, it's like, okay, cool. We all knew they're only selling it in the season pass,

and the first DLC is just going to be to kind of like keep the conversation going, but then the second one's going to be something real. The meaty one, yeah. And to go back and think about our prediction topics of what this is going to be and, like, reading about what people thought might happen. And granted, the hype is what ruined this. It's everybody just thinking of what it could be. But I feel like we all kind of expected a new area.

We all kind of expected there to be something more to it. And especially when you're talking about story, breath of the wild strong suit is not the story. And I feel like there has great characters, especially when it was announced that it was called Champions Ballot. And it's about these people that we really liked and wanted more from. They didn't really deliver that. There's maybe, so there's like four or five cutscenes that they add.

And they're great. They're really cool. But they're not substantial. they don't really progress anything forward. Just kind of get into the, know the champions a little bit better. Okay. My girl, Meefe.

Mifa, yeah. Yeah, she's doing fantastic. Great, great. And there's some fun things that happen in terms of flashbacks and stuff where you see characters that you might not expect to see. And like, that's cool.

But yeah, story-wise, kind of a letdown. Having said all that, it's more Zelda. And I think that that's the thing that's hardest for me to kind of wrap my head around when I talk about this DLC because I expected something new and I didn't get that.

Instead, I just got more. And that's why I feel letdown. Having said that, definitely some of the best shrines the entire game has to offer. No one. I'd say there's about 15 shrines that they add in this one. How do they differentiate those from the ones that you didn't beat? They have a different little icon that they add. So kind of going through the structure of what this game is, what the DLC adds.

you start off you have to beat the four Divine Beast before you can play this you don't need to do Ganon that doesn't matter but you need to actually complete the quests for the Divine Beast which is something I never did and I didn't realize

after you go back and talk to the people yeah yeah I never did that I was the post game of Zelda never really grabbed me so I never went back and got all the shrines and the Korox seeds and all that stuff well I didn't only because it my post game like, oh, I'm back at the start of Gannon's dungeon and I have to like go kill him again.

It's like, oh, well, I kind of was hoping I would just be in a different area and like, but Gannon's still here. Like, you never died. Well, yeah, yeah, but that's the whole thing. Everything takes place before. Yeah, okay. So this is kind of like, they add it as a last minute. The final thing you do. And I feel like in that way it does add a bit and it is cool where it's like the final preparations.

because the main game, you do the four Divine Beasts and then go to Ganon, right? This is kind of serves to be in between those. And in that way, it's cool. I think somebody playing Zelda for the first time is going to have a great time going through doing the DLC and then beating the game. That's going to be an awesome experience. But this game, you start off and you have to do those missions if you haven't already. That doesn't take too long. You're just going to the four different places and talking to people.

From there, it sends you back to the... Great Plateau, like the tutorial level from the old man. Yeah. And it essentially turns it into a really cool challenge. I know that a lot of people I was reading online didn't like this part. I thought it was one of the most interesting things of the DLC. They give you a new weapon called the one hit obliterator where every enemy, it's one hit kill for everything. But it's also one hit kill for you.

Oh no. So the stakes are super high. And I thought it was a interesting way to like make the gameplay. different and have you go back to similar places. That's neat. And make any little enemy is a threat. And I found myself being more afraid of fucking one of those swarm of bees coming at me than one of the giant dudes because their hitboxes are different, right?

And so it kind of becomes this like stealthy thing. We have to go to four different areas and kill all the enemies in an area. And then you get a shrine. Then you play through that shrines. You do those four shrines. That opens up the next section. those four shrines were fantastic and then I think that those are some of the best ones that

Zelda has to offer really cool uses of all the different status powers and it it brought me back where I'm like God I love this game like this game is so special because of this the next phase it kind of lost me and it drags on way too long

where they unlock four shrines around the world and they're weird looking shrines. Each shrine has like three little pillars on it. You go to them and on the three pillars there's like a picture of a part of a map. You need to look at that

and compare it to the map and figure out where it is and then go there and then there's the shrine quests. Remember when you're playing through the game and it wasn't just the shrines it was like the weird ass tasks of like beat this time trial. Put the things in the fucking holes.

And this will happen. It becomes a lot of riddles and it becomes a lot of stuff. The riddles are cool. The do these things is cool. Having to 12 times look at these stupid-ass little pictures and like play a Where's Waldo game with the map. It's like, ooh, this isn't fun. I'm just tediously wasting my time and I didn't enjoy that at all.

But each one ends you up at a shrine and those shrines are great. There was a couple motion to things. And I was just like, oh, these are bad. I love my motion shots. I don't know why they keep adding. Oh, shards are fun. Don't listen to him as Zelda. But I think what's cool.

is some of these shrines I think are more challenging than the shrines in the base game because for the first time they now know that you have beaten the four divine beasts so they like obviously these people understand this whereas before you can play them any order right so they all have to be kind of a similar difficulty these were more difficult so I'd like that a lot that ends you up going to a new divine beast so it's not a full Zelda dungeon that we kind of thought we were we were gonna get you go through the divine beast you go through the divine And I would say it's harder than the other ones. That was cool.

And that was about as long as the other ones were. So I'm like, there was a lot of content here. And I'm like, it is just more Zelda. And it's great. And I won't spoil this. But the final boss that you face is the fucking coolest boss in the entire game. Wario. And I was like, it felt like a really good.

That'd be great. Good addition to the game. And especially before beating Ghana, it's like, this is fucking rad. And then you get the motorcycle. And the motorcycle's cool, but it's weird as fuck. Is it just, is there any, do I have to worry about the run out of gas can I just use it to trip yeah there's there's like you need to worry about the stuff but it's like it doesn't really get you away because I want to use it a lot it

becomes a cover cover it becomes one of your powers oh nice okay it's limited similarly to those but like it's pretty forgiving like you got it you can use this okay much how much do you want so it's weird because it's like is this DLC worth $20 when you add all the other shit that the first pack did like I yeah it is but I just feel like it was really misrepresented and I wish it was something different but that also makes me you're seven hours of content yeah

20 hours of breath of wild quality content now some of that like I was saying I did not I did not like the the bullshit ass like where's Waldo's stuff but the shrines are great more shrines is just that's great I just wish that that's kind of what they marketed as from the beginning

but it also makes me think like new areas new stuff that's being reserved for a Breath of the Wild sequel eventually so it looks like we're about to get into the financing portion of our deal at the dealership with you. Listen, I've been talking to my manager. Look, man. Years coming up. We've got to move

some models, but you're saying the rustling has to stay in the bed of this truck. Between you and me, man. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, we won't talk to my manager about this, but between you and me, this is the lowest. I can go. You understand. It's crazy. I haven't even told him about it. It's crazy. Tim, are you prepared now, since you don't like Zelda as much because of this DLC to give

your vote for Game of the Year to Mario? So I will say, Thank you, Kevin. What I will say to that, Greg, is I played the seven hours whatever of Zelda. Yeah. And then the rest of my weekend, I played a lot of Mario Odyssey, and I got it a lot of moons. And, God, I really, really love that game. I have not.

I was wrong when I said how close I was. I'm very close now. It's killing me. I was about to get on the, well, that's not right. I'm about to get on the road. And so I'm super excited for the Zelda D.L.C. Because I feel like you like switch and driving. No, I'm not driving.

I'm flying in place. But I like the idea that before we're coming back, obviously, in the new year, doing our first games cast, game of the year discussion, picking our game of the year. I like the idea of having a refresher course in Zelda just to make sure I'm as firm as I believe I am. Because I feel pretty firm on Mario. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm interested. I don't know if this deal is. Kevin, what is this? Warm me up or not. Kevin's just distracting us with zombie. Yes, no decision. I was going to say we also played firewall

and VR. Yeah. Zero hour. I forgot. Yeah. Firewall zero. Very generic name. Are you familiar with Firewall Zero Hour Tim Gettys? Let me lay it on you this. PlayStation VR. Let me lay it on you this. Wheels are off. PlayStation VR

four player cooperative game. Think Rainbow 6C or no, Rainbow 6 Vegas. But in first person, Oh, that doesn't make sense. It's Rainbow 6 in VR. That's what I'm trying to say. So it's not run and gun as much as it is tactical.

We're approaching a house. There's four of the guys in there. Not human. There's four AI in there. We have to get in, upload the thing, or get the laptop. We were playing their dev team. Were we? Yeah.

No, really? And I like... They were taking easy on us. Well, yeah, totally. They were definitely taking it easy on us. Oh, so it's 4V4? That's, yeah, I could have... I'm pretty sure he said, yeah, you're playing our dev team back in wherever.

Oh. That's what I don't know. could have sworn he said that. Maybe I totally misunderstood said. But it was me and Greg and two other dudes. I'm not sure where they were from. But they were there just like us, like in the press room or whatever.

And you're approaching this house, and the movement is like you're using, we use the little gun, the VR gun or whatever. And the left-hand control, or the aim controller. Left analog sticks just sort of moves you around or whatever. And then the right stick is your turning, but it's like in degrees.

It's like 15 degree turns or whatever. So it's a little bit easier on you motion-wise. I didn't get sick at all. It was awesome. And me and Greg shot a bunch of dudes. Yeah, it was fucking cool. Those were people. I thought they were AI because they were doing the thing

where they like see us and then move away. I'm like, oh yeah. Well, yeah, they were. So like I see one dude and I shoot him and he runs away and he goes to a door and shuts the door behind him. And so you can. like open the door or whatever or you could try another route or whatever. But as we're shooting

at people through a doorway, there's two other dudes on a balcony. So it's like throw a fucking, throw a grenade at them and shoot him and then we got to get inside. Like, it was fucking fun. Like I didn't want to stop playing it. It was a lot like, and it was a lot like our Wildland's E-3 demo where I was like, all right, cool. And he's like, all right, I'm ghost or whatever you were. And I was red. You're red and I was

preacher or whatever, geyser. And it was like, all right, whatever. And then we're in there and I see geyser and red. I'm like, reddy, they're on your six. All right. I'm turning around. I'm doing this. And then it was like, let's breach the door. And like, everyone instinctually, like, one up to the sides of the door and the other guy stood in the front of it and opened it.

And it was like, this is really fucking cool. That's awesome. There was some dudes shooting at us from a staircase. And we didn't have good position. So one of the dudes was like, Red, throw a smoke grenade. It's like, threw a smoke grenade. Well, maybe they were devs. Maybe they were part of the dev team.

They must have been. Yeah, they must have. I feel like they knew really well. This makes more sense as to why they were acting the way they were acting. Yeah. Now I get it. because it's it's uh you know not you aren't bullet sponges or whatever so like it was like if somebody started shooting at you and you didn't have the drop on them it was like oh fuck get down

or do this yeah and so yeah through smoker day like kind of because we needed to get to a certain doorway and we didn't want to get shot from above because we didn't know exactly where they were i had a blast man it's such a different experience playing a first person shooter like co-op game with friends yeah than it is in vr like because in vr like it's you like as you you you You could shoot just from the hip or whatever, and your aim may not be great. Your aim may not be great, but if you pull it up,

like, you see the red dot site turn on. And, like, you're, that's sort of like your aim down sides. And that's what I was using, because I held it really close up to me.

And that's what I was using to get better aim on people. It was fun, man. I had a blast of it. It was a lot of fun. It was really, it's just like,

logistically, this game may not succeed because it's really hard to do that. And it's hard to have four VR sets for you and three of your friends. But, but you figure, I mean, what they announced,

far. They're out there. $300 now. Yeah. $200. Isn't it down a two? I think it was for like, I thought it was for a little bit. Is it permanent? Maybe down a three. Kevin, can we get a price check to see? It's originally four, isn't it? It's permanently dropped PlayStation VR. But they're out there. I think that the VR market, they want something good.

Everybody's always, no offense to the games that are out, but I want real games, not just experiences. Like, this felt like a real fucking game. No, yeah. And like, especially my, my one critique leaving is I thought it was too easy. It makes, now that it makes total sense why it was. The devs are like, get a feel. for it. We don't want to fuck you. Now you can imagine how it would get to there. $199 for

limited time only. Okay. But yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was cool. And that was the thing is there's a lot of like, I talk about all the time. There's games where like a megaton rainfall and a couple of the VR things that have come around. I really want to try that. But I don't want to go through like this game. I'll keep a VR unit on the hand hold for that. That, uh, the not Rick and Morty VR game from Justin Roll. Accounting Plus. Like what that that fucking trailer had me in his stare. I'm like, get out of my land.

It's just like all these cuts and that. I was like, I want to fucking play this fucking thing. Yeah, this game, um, I, I really hope it succeeds because I want, I want the, like,

what's it called? When there's just, there's a lot of people playing it. I hope it has a big audience. Oh yeah. I hope it finds its audience. Um, because I, like,

I did not want to stop playing it. We had to go to some thing that you had to be a part of. And this is the exact same thing. We did like two rounds. I was like, let's do one more, man. This is the thing. What we talk about too of like,

in terms of all, I can't wait to see what our community does with dreams. Like, community game nights of this, that'd be easy, right? Of us all just, you don't have to all be in the same place like we were, because it's got the voice, you're in there ready to go. It was very similar to Rainbow Six Siege in the way that you had to, you had to, like, activate the fucking beacon icon or whatever. You know, it's like something technological.

It's on a wall. And, like, the dude, one of the dudes has to set it up and it's like a hacking device. Or you have to hack that, or you could just kill the other four players. So it's like, you can do that. and defend it or you could just go hunt the other four dudes down and if you lose you fucking lose like if you set it up you at least have a chance of like holding the door holding the room uh i was really good at throwing grenades it was fucking rad like into a doorway like just chucking grenades in there's i had a blast man i really want to play the blind flying around

like walls or stuff yeah that's awesome just creating like cover for people i'm in a weird spot where i'm again i think this year was super quiet on the VR front and for 20th and i'm actually super excited about some stuff coming up. They've announced so much. Moss is cool. Shit, that VR game I went and played blood and something. I'll have to look it up and get blood and truth.

Oh, that's the, the... Another first person shooter, kind of on, not on rails, but like you're getting let around. It's from the guys who did the get away. Yeah, London's dues. And so like, yeah, that's the one I was talk about where, I won't beat a dead horse

if you heard it before, but where I was playing that one in the casino and I was shooting, blindfiring over a table. And the guys threw, grenade onto the roulette board in front of me. I was like, fuck, and I was crouching. I got up, grabbed it, threw it back at them. And then I went back down and I was like, that was awesome.

There was no prompt on the fucking screen, be like, grab the grenade, grab the grenade. It was just like, that's how natural is because I'm trying to set up this fucking bomb. That thing happened. That's so cool. And I was like, damn. And I played it at the other VR event they did back when they did the present citation in Paris. But for the inpatient, the next one from Supermassive, their booth, was awesome. Did you see this? I didn't get to walk in. I got to, I got, I privileged, and I'm humble bragging, not really. But like, when we were, uh, done rehearsing for the PlayStation thing, like, me and she were in the green room forever with the concrete genie guys. And she was like, can I just walk around on the show floor? Can I get a tour? And so like the people who built everything and shoo-hahua around and, like, explained everything. And they walked us through. They built the sanatorium, right? And made it, like, look all, like, crappy and shitty and, like, scary and stuff. And what they do, you wait in line and, like, the people working it were all in lab coats. It.

then they'd come out in a wheelchair, put you in the wheelchair, wheel you into the room, put the VR headset on you, and you started in the wheelchair and the game. That's like, Jesus. That's too spooky. Too spooky. I know you want to move on. I know that we were trying to do shorter thing to get the thing in here.

Sorry, got to give a shout to this game I played. Way of the Passifist. It's a plan word, obviously, pacifist, but passive fist. Oh, I didn't even get that. Yeah, it's playing out there, right? I got hit up by a friend of mine who does PR, and was, hey, you should come to see this game. I looked at it and it's a side scroll and beat him up.

And I was like, I don't play that. I respect those games, not my jam, usually, you know what I mean? Let alone in 2017 and kind of ignored it. And she came back. She's like, no, no, no, you need to play this. It's not that kind of thing. She's like, it's more of a rhythm game even than it is a fighter. And I was like, what?

So the shtick here is, you can obviously go find videos of this online. Imagine though Sega Genesis, side scroll and beat them up. Looks better, obviously, but that's what they're going for in terms of it, right? It's basically like if you were doing a side scroll and beat her up in Mad Max or whatever, right? So it's just like all post-apocalyptic and stuff. You're in like the goggles and the cool little mask or whatever. But the whole schick is that the enemies come at you from both sides of the screen, you know, it's 2D, the planes and everything. But you don't fight.

What you do is you parry and dodge. And so they come at you and every kind of enemy has their own wind up and attack. They have to learn or whatever. And so then you just sit there and you like block their thing, dodge, push back out of their thing. And while you're doing that, you're building a little combo meter at the top. After they've thrown enough and you've dodged enough, they'll get exhausted. And you can just take two fingers and tap them and they fall over. And then you'll get to bosses.

And when you fill the power, you can use this whenever, but it's meant for bosses. You fill that power meter, right? You get to bosses. And then you can use this one robot arm punch that you've earned by dodging all the other stuff to take out of health chunk of their life bar. What's cool about it is like in, you know, the ninja movies and all that stuff, they, when there's multiple guys on screen,

they won't all attack you at once, obviously. They come up to you and engage you. And so it sounds like it'd be easy to pairing and dodge all these guys, but when you start juggling in the different things they do, let alone that they'll come from different sides and you have to turn and counter them on that side. It gets complicated, and then the game will come in and like put a sandstorm over it

where you can kind of only see outlines. And it's, do, do, do, do do do do do do do do do. No, the actual sandstorm of sand blowing in your face. and it does this thing where Tim, that was the rude. It gets super complicated and crazy and it's trying to throw you off the game

of being passive, but it's the thing where it gets super frantic of it feels like I should be doing more and that's what the game wants me to feel like I'm doing but really you're just doing this. So that was super fun, not a game I would normally play. I'll totally play this. What I appreciate more than anything about it is that when the game starts,

it's like accessibility is like the number one option. I forget this gentleman's name who made it. I'm sorry. He used to work a drink. box the Gwaka melee guys. Accessibility is the name of the game. So they've done a whole bunch of different controller configurations. So you can play it.

One-handed, he's had people play it with their feet. Like you can button map and do whatever you need to. But on top of that, when you go in, it's like, there's no what difficulty you want to play on. It's like, cool. How would you like to play this? And it's, you can, how much damage, you know, enemies will take from you, how much health you have, how long the window is to make it really long for paris to make it

really small, to make you really hard. And then it gives you an assigned name at the top end of what your difficulty is that you just custom built. And so obviously, there's going to be trophies and stuff assigned. They'll be a platinum to go forward and get like, you know, the toughest of the hardest of hardcore.

But for somebody like me who's like, I struggle sometimes with timing, I can't wait to play it and be like, all right, cool, I've got it down. Now I want to bring the window down or do this, do that. Very cool. I'm out. Bye, Andy.

Bye, guys. Bye, Andy. Have a great show. Go make your gondoms. I will. Are we making a Gundam? Shout up to your Derrude comment. Come on.

That was so good. That might be the fun. funniest thing you've ever done. So quick, so witty, so Andy. Watch party, but it's funnier. YouTube. YouTube.com such kind of funny games. This is reading gaming history, not too much, Greg, because it is, it is mid-December. Yeah. So at this point, this is like, oh, did your game get delayed? Yeah, exactly. What went wrong? What went wrong with you? Someone about here. One year ago, December 15, 2016, Super Mario Run came out on iOS. Oh. A lot of people down that game there. I remember playing it in the audience for Star Wars. Not all the movie's on. Was it Star Wars that we did that? Yeah. I don't think it was Yeah, it was

It might have been Rogue 1 But I mean it was a Star Wars movie for sure I don't know what year that counts out to be You're all right I don't pay attention to Gary You're right, you're right Nine years ago On December 11th, 2008

I often say this Greg This one's for you PlayStation Home Came out on PlayStation 3 The jam PlayStation Home You know what I mean I'm sorry I don't know what you mean

I'm sorry I don't know what you mean You want to talk about micro-transactions How much money do you think I spent on the ghostbuster outfits And Ghostbuster Firehouse in there $5 dollars? I spent a lot of $1, I spent a lot of it's spent a lot. I don't know. I don't have that number in front of me.

Please just to know them though. Was that as much of a train wreck as I thought it was? Oh yeah. No, totally. Yeah. It was just a weird fucking idea. It was a cool idea, but it was a cool idea in the same way. I remember when chat rooms were happening. And I was like, it went AOL. When we got AOL. I was

like, this is cool. I wish you could go into a chat room with avatars and chat. And I remember when somebody finally put that out and I remember using it and building a superboy and I was like, wow, this sucks. This is not. I thought I wanted this and I didn't want this. And so like when, uh, I was fuck this up because I feel sponsor now, Phil Harrison came out at that GDC, my first GDC, GDC 2007 and was like game 2.0. It's going to be

this thing called Little Big Planet you haven't seen or know anything about. SingStar on PlayStation 3 with all this connectivity and video integration and then home. And we were like, what? And like, I remember getting into the beta for home. You're like, what? And then you just played more home and you're still like, what the fuck is this? But it had a really dedicated audience and it did make money and it did do, I mean, well enough. Yeah. That people, it was the thing. And they tried interesting things, right? Like, it's, I wonder how much home being weird hamper's PlayStation being weird now.

Where it was like, hey, and I, don't quote me on any of this in terms of what it was, but like, hey, we're doing some PlayStation showcase or PlayStation Conference, whatever. Come watch it in home, in the home movie theater. Because there was a movie theater you could go into and sit down. I want to say they ran video content. in there for me. I can't remember if I ever got a beyond down there or something, but like they ran like PlayStation early blog content or something like that.

And that was a cool idea, right? And I would love them to do that now with VR like we always talk about. Of like, all right, cool, you're three different perspectives to watch the PlayStation showcase. You can be front row, you can be in the rafters, you can be backstage in the gorilla position or stuff. That'd be cool to do, but do they have numbers based on how many people in home used it

and what the expense was to make that shit happen at home? That's interesting. Yeah. Home was weird as fuck, but God bless you. Never forget the bubble machines we danced around. happy. Good Lord. 10 years ago, December 13, 2007, Knight's Journey of Dreams came out on the Wii. Only story I got there is, I've said this before

when we talked about the Sega Saturn. I was so jealous of the Sega Saturn, because I had the other systems, but I remember being at Toys R Us and seeing Knights and being like, this looks really cool. I love the character design. I love the colors. Like, the gameplay looked interesting. It looked different from Mario and Sonic and Crash at the time.

So I was like, all right, what the fuck is this? I liked that the name was all caps, except for the eye. Everything about the style game like this seems really cool and I just remember being so jealous of people that that had a Saturn because I was like I'm never gonna get this thing and shit I'll never play this game and years down the line when it hit a point where I had a PC and emulators were running a muck and it was so easy to go back and this is a pre-virtual console day and all that way to play old games you

either needed them physically and that did they work and the batteries and all that whatever it was easy to play to get And to play games except for the Saturn and the Saturn just would not run. So I was like this fucking game Knights will Always evade me and then they're like oh a sequel's coming to the Wii yeah, and I was like wow Holy shit like I'm actually gonna finally play it and then I didn't I didn't like it no yeah yeah I had the Saturn you know and like I remember seeing the night stuff run up to it I was like this guy looks like a court gesture with long legs I don't play them I don't play it's dork But I feel like the night's journey of dreams the second one I really feel it took all the things I thought were cool about the first one Granted, I was a little kid when the first one came back.

Oh, yeah, sure. But I still think it's cool. But the second one, it lame, it made it super lame. Lamed it up. Yeah, it lamed it up totally. And out of these dumb ass kids, they always had the kids. They want to get you. It's always the dumb kids.

I mean, that's how it is. The sequel always has to have kids to get the kids in their Ghostbusters 2, prime example. I didn't like that though. 14 years ago on December 10, 2003, Fatal Frame 2 Crimson Butterfly. Where the fuck is more fatal frame? On the WiiU. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I mean, they've been coming out.

No, no, no, no. To those audiences. God, Fidelframe was so good. People really like Fiddle Frame on the Wii. You can't just make up games, all right? Yeah. Oh, you guess what? There was a fucking new toe jam and Earl on the Wii.

No, you can't just make shit up. Just because no one played it or owned a Wii U. Fidel Frame 2, though, my favorite Faddle Frame. The idea, it's similar to Nights where Faddle Frame 1, I was like, oh, I'm interested in this, but I never got it. I love Faddle Frame 1. But Faddle Frame 2, oh, man, it was so fucking great. The story was so actually scary.

and it was the first game that gave me nightmares. It's one of the few things in my life that I've actually gotten nightmares from any media, anything. What was the nightmare? I mean, it was just random fucking imagery and shit. I'll never, like, the scariest thing to me was, like, there's one part, very early on,

we walk up to a door and it's a jump scare where the door kind of creaks open right when you get near it. But the way that the controller vibrated and it hadn't been vibrating up to that point in the game, it fucking got me, man. And they just did such a good job

with what they had. Like, looking back now, like, the idea that a PlayStation 2 game could graphically scare me is very insane, but they really did. And that was a fucked-up game. Some real fucked-up shit happens. And there's nothing creepier

than little Japanese twin girls. You know? Like, what's scarier than one of them? Two of them. And they look exactly the same. Mm-mm. I see how that'll get you. Yeah.

16 years ago on December 10, 2001, SSX tricky came out on the Xbox, PS2 and GameCube, undeniably the best SSX game. SSX 3? 2001. Okay.

Okay. Was it only a year after? Remember there was an SSX game on PlayStation 2 at launch. SSX. Okay. That's all I was trying to keep track of in my head. Yeah. That was 2000, right?

Right. That's when that launched. So I guess it was annualized at that point. But tricky added like style. And it added the whole, when you think of SSX, it's SSX. And three was really good as well, but it just kind of took away a lot of the what made tricky special

What's the one that came to Wii in that first year of we? I remember still with Mikeo right after I think I like literally the day after I moved I don't know I went to GameStop and bought it. Okay. Sorry to derail the conversation. I don't know and then there was the SSX reboot that looked so cool and then it sucked. Steep? Yeah, no. I'm joking I kid boo-boo. Finally 20 years ago on December 3rd. 13, 1995, gex came out on PlayStation. And even I have to say, that's a bad game. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you try to play it? You try to get into it? Oh yeah. I mean, even back then I was like, this isn't right. Yeah. And I've recently, I played it on that. I got on my Vita.

Oh. Yeah. And didn't like that at all. So now we're going to transfer over to you doing an interview with Ashley in deck nine games about Life is Strange before the storm. Will there be spoilers? I haven't decided yet. We'll figure it out.

We'll figure it out. If there are all the beginning when I introduced the gentleman whose name I don't remember off the top of my head, but Ashley's there for sure. Here we go. That's right, Tim and Greg from the past. It's me, Greg, from the future with Chris Floyd all the way from the present, deck nine. How are you? Great. How are you? I'm great. Thanks for coming out. And an up and comer, you've never heard of her before. Ashley, Verge. How are you? It's great. It feels good in the present. Yeah, the present's good, right? Yeah, we're in a good spot right now. As of recording, only 11 days till Christmas. But that'll be different by the time you see it. Can you change this?

What is this? It's chalk. Oh, that's cute. Yeah. Last year, the wife got it for me. when she was still the girlfriend and she was in Montreal. And so then I started updating it. And I'll tell you what, you want a fun joke on a morning show about July you busted out with like a whole bunch of days on there. People laugh and they laugh. It kills. It's a great. Let's talk about life is strange before the storm.

What I've been saying in both audio form, video form, and then last night I wrote my giant bomb top 10 list. I keep saying the same thing. This game has no business being as good as it is. and I'm not saying I expected it to be a dud when I got it, but it was the announcement of like, well, there's more Life is Strange too. They lied to us. They said they weren't doing it.

It wasn't going to be ready for E3. And it's like, no, it's a prequel. And you're like, all right. Prequel is just about Chloe. All right. Actually, it's not the voice. That's weird. All right, it's deck nine, not the other guys.

What the hell is going on with this? Oh, are there superpowers? No superpowers. Like, all right. Well, it's just a game of talking. Like, that'll be fun. And then smash cut. One or two reasons to be skeptical, I think.

Smash cut to episode one. and that D&D game kicks off. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? This game is amazing. So congratulations, guys. Thank you. Thank you very much. This has just been insane.

For you watching at home, I, of course, have told you repeatedly to play life as strange before the storm. I want to keep the first part as spoiler-free as possible. At some point, we will say very clearly, spoilers. Not that I'm like going to get into the minutiae of what happened here, but there's so many great moments I want to talk about.

Ash, let's start with you. So you aren't voicing Chloe, but you helped write it. And then now it gets complicated, because you are, I was seeing Chloe and the farewell, right? Uh-huh, right. Where does it begin for you in terms of before the storm?

When did you get approached about it? Was there conversations about you being voice actress, but then it was the strike happened, and how does... Where do you get involved, I guess? Yeah, it was complicated with the strike, and then the option of being a consultant and helping with the voice of Chloe and maintaining that character through consultancy

and reading the scripts and kind of giving feedback came up. Gotcha. Yeah, so I think, At that point, I believe you guys had already mapped out where you wanted the story to go. And they were developing episode one at that time. So then I went through the script of episode one was giving notes and had regular calls with the writers and stuff like that. Was it super hard letting Chloe go? Yeah, it was, it was.

But it was also, you know, it was really nice to be involved with the writing. And the studio, deck nine in the studio obviously felt they're all fans of the original series. So it felt true to what the first game had done. And then Chris, where does it all start for deck nine? We talked a long time ago, not a long time ago, E3, but it feels like I had way less gray hair there. But that was again before I knew that you guys did it well because at this time I was still feeling you out.

Are you going to fuck me? I was wondering. You didn't. Well, you did with my emotion. Anyways, we'll get to that way. Where does it start for deck nine with life history? So deck nine basically, retooled as a studio

specifically to make cinematic narrative adventure games. We brought in a team of people specifically to do that, people from not just video games, movies and TV, storytellers and try to build a team of storytellers. And then we made a tool set specifically for building these kinds of games. And we went around and started talking to publishers.

We talked to a lot of different publishers. And we were pitching different ideas, but when we talked to Square Enix, they came back and said, what do you guys think of making a Life is Strange game? And we did not expect to get that offer. So much about Life is Strange

was such a, so unique and such a unique vision on the part of Don't Nod, to be asked to contribute to that was just a real surprise and a privilege. Was it terrifying? Because I feel like that'd be terrifying. Hey, here's this game that's beloved and it spawned all this cosplay

and really great blogs and stuff. and like think pieces and this and everybody knows these too. So many people out there that are so passionate about Life is Strange. We knew we'd have those skeptical eyes on us. We knew we were under a lot of attention. And so, you know, how we responded was we just said every step along the way, let's ask ourselves, are we remaining true to Life is Strange? We remaining true to these characters.

Are we living up to what the fans expect? So did that entail everyone in the studio going through and playing the game a million times over and seeing every different choice and every different decision. I mean, we've picked it apart. There's obviously so much there's so much there. There's a lot of other people's thoughts and theories and things around the web as well.

You know, all of that. We tried to get as deep into it as we could. Okay, okay. Ashley. Yes. When you're working on the first life is strange, do you know that it's going to be as special as it is or is it just a job at the moment?

I wasn't aware, actually, from the first, episode, I wasn't sure how involved Chloe was even going to be. So when I came into the booth, I think the first scene that we filmed was with the argument with David. Sure. In the bathroom. Yeah. Oh, Dave, yeah, I'm with you now. Sorry, sorry. Yeah, sorry, the stepdad. No, I don't, don't insult me. I know who David is. I just got confused. I was thinking about when you got introduced in the game. I'm a fake gamer boy. I'm a fake gamer boy. But yeah, I didn't, I had no idea and I actually didn't know how involved.

to Chloe was going to be in the story. And I remember speaking to the don't nod guys. I think it was, Michelle and Christian were on that call, and I was talking to them. And it was kind of revealed that Chloe was sort of the crux of the entire story. And I was like, oh, oh, okay. But yeah, I mean, I knew that I loved the game

and I loved the characters. And it's like, I mean, it was with Horizon too. You kind of, you're putting your best foot forward and your heart and soul into these things and you're just hoping. Because they're new IPs, you know? You have no idea. So I think all of us were really trying to make something special.

And thankfully, I think we succeeded. But yeah, I hadn't. I had no idea going in. So is that weird for you now to get as much attention? I mean, you had been doing VO forever. You'd been doing YouTube forever. You know how fandom works. Right.

But to create characters that resonate so well with somebody, right? Whether it be Chloe, whether it be Aloid, even Tiny Tina, right? To be part of something that people are going to cosplay as and connect us. And then for you, Chris, have feelings about, right? Like when I finished Life is Strange and I had my ending, I was like, I'll go play the other ending. I was like, this fucking bullshit. It's not how this isn't how it go at all.

She would never do this. Max, I want to do this. Is that weird to get and have a character that you interpreted on the page and made the decisions for now be something that everyone owns and feels ownership over? It's humbling. I mean, especially with Chloe and Aloy, I put so much time and energy and heart. into those characters. And so to have them, you know, accepted and loved as much as they are is is humbling and gratifying.

And it's also, you know, it's a, it's a sort of a validating thing. Like, because I go in caring as much, I care as much about these characters as all the fans do, you know, I really, I never, I can't, I'm physically incapable of phoning it into these characters because they're so compelling and they're so well written and they're so engrossing. So, yeah, I go in. and I become a fan and I'm doing fan service for myself

in the way that I'm playing these characters. So to have it being reflected back is like a few, you know, and it's also it's, and also it's very connective. Like it's really nice. I love talking to people about Horizon and Life is Strange at, you know, conventions and everything. I will always just Kevin being Kevin, don't worry.

Kevin. Kevin. I always actually, whenever I go to a convention, I ask people, if they have me sign Life is Strange stuff, I always ask them what they chose at the end. Oh, sure. And you can tell by their body language if they get nervous or whatever. I'm like, I'm not judging. I'm not judging. But I love talking about these games. I mean, they mean a lot to me too. You know, they, they've changed me in much the same way that they changed the people to play them. What's your life is strange

ending? I hesitate to say it because I feel like then it becomes canon or something. Really? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I remember the first time I ever hung out with Michelle, we were out drinking or whatever and we were going back. And I think I was, you think you were there and I bought him Lego dimensions and shipped it to his place in France or whatever because I was telling how great it was. But then I'm like, yeah, you know, and I picked the non-canon ending. He's like, no, no, no, there is no, there's. I'm like, bullshit, there's no.

One ending goes on for 15 minutes and, like, has all this stuff. The other ending is I'm driving away in a truck, all right? It was the truck. Arcadia Bay can suck it. They deserve it. She deserves to live, damn it, and be happy. I'm sorry, Greg, you're a monster. I know, I am.

Oh, trust me. We have respect. Yeah, exactly. So, Chris, we're talking about, obviously, the ownership over Chloe, the character, the story and all this different stuff. you talked about, you know, is it true to life is strange when you're working on before the storm? Is that ever the albatross around your neck when you want to make a creative decision? But do you think, well, that isn't life is strange?

Or the fans won't think that's life is strange or don't not want to do that. I feel like that you can paint yourself into a corner pretty easily. Well, it can sometimes feel that way. And, you know, the tabletop game in the first episode is not a bad example. Because when we came up with that idea, we had these characters, Steph and Mikey, that we were really enthusiastic about just generally. and we wanted Chloe to have some fun interactions with them. But when we came with the tabletop game, we weren't sure.

It's like, is this Life is Strange? It's like feeling like we're trying to make another game, the wrong kind of game embedded in there. But there's certain principles, I think, that we started to learn about what Life is strange is. And so when we got, for example, in the tabletop game, and it's how does Chloe act as Chloe playing that sort of game? She's not just going to roll play straight, you know,

she's going to say, I'm going to punch the ork in the dick. You know, and then you feel like, oh, okay, we're seeing these characters, where they're exposing themselves, you know, to us, you know, and who they are, we're getting to see inside this moment. And that then started to say, okay, that's life is strange. That's, you know, portraits of relatable characters. Right. And who they are, how they relate to each other.

That's all right. That's all right. Because I guess we're going to get into somewhat spoilers here, but like that, I mean, you know, whatever. I think that's an interesting take on it and you're talking about the relatability of it because so many people I know that enjoyed Life is Strange that I've convinced to start playing this have come back and been like

man in Life is Strange I didn't like Chloe not that they hated Chloe but like I didn't understand her motivations and the hella and this that and the other and coming into the prequel I was very much like oh I like I love Chloe in the game but I don't know if I need a prequel about her

I kind of get her and every game or every episode of the game you guys give me new nuance to her and a new reason for how she is and who she is. And it was like, even when it was like when she learns hella from Rachel Amber, it was like, ah, that's a good retcon of like why she'd be saying it. But especially like the struggle me as Chloe when I'm playing the game of, man, I fucking hate David, but I know he turns out to be a good guy.

And mom just wants him, but she painting me into her corner and all this different stuff. But then like, for me, the Dungeons and Dragons, moment in episode one is definitely when I was like, oh, like this game's fucking awesome. Like they're on to something crazy here. I like, I like what they're doing it, that they're going to be weird with it, for lack of a better term. And I think Tempest in episode two is when you got also weird. I was like, fuck yeah.

But walking around the junkyard, right? And smash, smash, smash, smash. And you're like having fun with it. You're smashing all this stuff. And then turning the corner and seeing the van. Like, that was so powerful. And that was like, that's, in 2017, one of the, one of the, one of the, one of the gaming moments I won't forget in terms of coming around and seeing that and being like oh fuck because

it was such a left turn where I feel like you can sit there and talk about Chloe's story and who she becomes and what this prequel is going to be and we know the destination we're going to but to see it filled in and have I never when I'm playing through the thought that maybe the car is going to be in there and have her go in there and curl up and fall asleep in and it was like you know what I mean and this is when I'm playing it with my wife next to me we were playing it before I came into work so I could talk about on gamescast and I let and she was like devastated by that moment to the point that when I left, she then immediately started her own game

and went through to play through and do it all. Because I was in a hurry, I didn't get to like investigate the D&D game the way I could. When you're writing these episodes, when you're plotting these episodes, are you putting it out with giant beats like that where you know that you want to go to the junkyard, you want her to be anger,

you want her to see the van? We go through phases, sort of levels of granularity. So we started what we call a narrative arc level. is sort of the very high level beats and we go we plotted out the whole three episodes yeah but then you get into writing the script themselves and the the lines of dialogue and what's the shape of this particular scene and you definitely rethink some of the some of the choices you know and find new

and exciting things to do the the moment with the car in the junkyard wasn't always wasn't always there we did some different things at the ending in our original drafts but we for a number of reasons. Wanted to sort of rearrange things. We were trying to get the ending with Rachel at the tree just right as well. And I don't remember who said,

you know, what if Williams' car is there in the junkyard? And she sees it. And then that reworked that whole junkyard scene. And then we hit on that idea of kind of showing, which I really, really love, showing Chloe's emotions through the gameplay with those four smash verbs

on everything leading up to, you know, her smashing, you know, hitting the car. It just, it kind of all came together really, really happy with that moment. And so, Ashley, for you looking through scripts and seeing if it's, if it is Chloe or doing that or being, I guess, like, the red team on it. What are, is it usually there? What are the things you're seeing that aren't there?

It's, I think the writing team had a really good sense. And again, they were all fans of the original game. And so they had a really good sense of Chloe to start with. And so mostly it was just, I mostly remember noting moments that were like, I'm not sure if Chloe would be this transparent about her feelings at this moment or that, you know, there are certain confrontations she has with Rachel that I felt like maybe needed more of a build that maybe Chloe would need to be pushed a little bit more to be to divulge what she was actually like feeling in that moment, stuff like that. And then just like little nuances of dialogue and that kind of thing. But mostly it was, I found it to mostly be about like how much is Chloe revealing in the. moments because she's not as broken, I think, as she is in the original season. Sure.

Because we're getting there. Because we're getting there. But, you know, Max is left and it's pretty heartbreaking to see how many times Chloe tries to reach out to her to silence. Whenever I open up the diary, right, if she's writing letters to Max, it's like, oh, my God. Yeah. And so you get the sense that I think, you know, this is when Chloe is, I feel, to me, before the storm is kind of like this choice between, am I going to close off or am I going

be open and Rachel kind of helps to open her up. Yeah. And so, but I think there is like a negotiation of like, can I trust this person? Am I going to get burned again? Yeah. Because at the point she's lost William and she's also lost Max. So it kind of just makes the first season although more tragic. Yeah. Well, again, it's like

and that's the whole thing we know we're thundering towards here. Yeah. Of course, of recording this episode three hasn't released. I haven't been fortunate enough to play it. December 20th. Yeah, right. Really the 19th it looks like now. We're releasing it globally at one time. So it'll be the 19th for most places in the world.

Very smart, very cool. Do you feel, Chris, because there's not the rewind power, right? And I talked about getting weird. Is that the power for Chloe

for lack of a better term of we're playing D&D and then, like I was talking about episode two, The Tempest. Like when we, when it comes back

and we're in the costume and we're backstage and I pick up the script and I see highlighted lines, I was like, oh fuck, they're going to do this. And I cheated.

I took screenshots of it. I was like, I want it. But again, I went through so much work because I was like, I don't want to let Rachel Amber down. Like, she's been great to me. I don't want to screw this up.

Does removing that gameplay element of rewining time allow you to do more crazy stuff? Well, it certainly puts the pressure on us to find interesting gameplay to do with kind of the more core, you know, just exploratory and dialogue mechanics of the game. And so that's what we, that's what we often tried to do. We did also add the back talk mechanic as well, just a way to get Chloe's personality sort of manifested. in game mechanics. Yeah, that was an interesting move. How far long does that come along in development? And if you're somebody who hasn't played Live of Strange,

we just wanted to hear the interview, they introduced this back talk system where basically Chloe is so good at, you know, getting under people's skin. It's a game where you're playing, there's a little meter at the bottom, and you have to listen to what people are saying and then turn an insult around on them based on what they just said.

Right. So early on, we said, okay, you know, what are some, maybe some new game mechanics that would fit the story that we want to tell that would fit Chloe? So actually BackTalk came up really early. And then, of course, it was really hammering out how it was going to work and what was going to make it special. And pretty much the writers, I think, hate me for coming up with the idea of Back Talk because it's really, really hard for them to write.

There's so many different things they need to juggle. You know, they need to get that sort of word puzzle element of it right as well as the emotional content of it. We need to get from A to B or C because there's a success and a failure. to it. So they kind of curse my name when they have to write it, but I'm always happy with the results when they do. So then Ash, what's it like now getting ready to come back? Because the strike ended while this game was in production, you're going to come back and do farewell. What's the feeling there for you? Is that exciting? Is that nerve-wracking? Is that? I'm really excited to come back. Obviously, I care about Chloe a lot. And it's awesome to be able

to play her again. And it's also super special because Hannah is coming back as Max. So it kind of feels like, you know, the old gang's back together. Yeah. Stuff like that. It's a little bit of a different Chloe that we're seeing because it's a younger Chloe. Right. It's a prequel now to the prequel. Yeah, exactly.

We're just going to go back and back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so it's, and it's nice because it's a, it's a bit more joyful, I would say. I don't think that's a spoiler to say. You know, it's like, it's like, not everything's gone to shit yet. Yeah, you know, it's, you know, Max is still there and you're just getting to spend some time with them having fun and being friends in a way that, you know, you didn't, you get to see in the first season, but there's a lot of baggage there.

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is interesting because it's, you know, I'm not returning to the Chloe that I, I mean, I played a young Chloe in the first season for those flashbacks, but it's not as established. And so there's an interesting negotiation of like, okay, it still needs to feel like Chloe. And so she needs to have some sass and some attitude,

but also she's not broken yet. So there's an interesting negotiation that happens there. But I think it's really fun. and I think that all the choice, the choice to make it in this particular time and having Chloe and Max do these particular things as I won't spoil was really smart and I think it's gonna be really fun

for players to explore it. Did you have hesitation coming back to the role now that somebody else is doing the role? Because I just feel like, I mean, everybody understands why, but then it's just this weird, how's everybody interacting together? I assume everybody hates each other.

Yeah, it's just, it's a background. No. Not really, no. I mean, I very much feel Chloe is one of my most beloved performances for myself, I should say. It's one of my most important performances for me. And so I felt really, really happy to be able to return. And also, you know, I think it's especially cool that it's a story between Max and Chloe, which feels very true to the first season. And so I felt like a natural return. Chris, you're almost wrapped on this. I assume farewell is pretty far along as well. What's next for you guys? Do you want to... I guess you talked about, you know,

deck nine gets founded. It's all about we're going to make these narrative games, and then Square comes in, we'd like to work in this. Would you like to go tackle more established IPs? Do you guys want to tell your own stories? There's a little bit of both? Well, you know, we as a studio, obviously,

kind of have a roadmap in front of us. I don't think we're ready to talk. about what's what is coming up but but telling stories that are are meaningful and that we can get deeply emotionally engaged with that's that's what it's always going to be about I think for us gotcha and then how's Horizon 2 coming you know I have no idea I don't even know what's happening Herman won't tell me either begging at game awards and everything else anything else for Life is Strange before the storm that I haven't covered you guys want to say no December 20th

episode three all right cool Oh, I guess the first season, can I say, I can say this right? It's out today, isn't it? The first season's on mobile now today. iOS, yeah. So right now, no matter when you're watching this, you can go get it, whether it's the past, present, or future. It's out there for you.

Guys, thank you so much for coming in. Yeah, thanks for having us. No problem. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for watching another episode of the Kind of Funny Games cast. I'm sorry Tim is in here to say goodbye to you and drink 14 LaCroys. Remember, if you like the show, patreon.com slash Kind of Funny Games, you can get it early. How early, Ashley?

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