Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Final Fantasy XVI Spoilercast w/ Ben Starr - Kinda Funny Gamescast

Episode Date: May 17, 2024

Clive Rosfield himself Ben Starr joins us to FINALLY have our Final Fantasy 16 spoilercast. Follow Ben at https://x.com/The_Ben_Starr Run of Show - - Start - Housekeeping - The Biggest Moments - How Voice Production Worked for XVI - Our Interpretation of The Ending - SuperChats - Ads - Cid - Kupka - Eikon Fights - The Big Clive & Jill Moment - Our One Moment Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to the Kind of Funny Games cast for Friday, May 17th, 2024. Of course, I am your host, Tim Gettys. I'm joined today by the Nitro Rifle himself, Andy Cortez. Good morning. Good morning to you. And we're joined by a very special guest from the coolest new D&D show on the Internet, Natural 6, and Clive Rossfield himself. It's Ben Starr. Hello.

Welcome back, Ben. How are you doing, man? I'm doing really, really well, thank you. I'm very busy, but I'm very happy. I told you earlier, it's morning for you, but it's evening for me, so I have a glass of rosé. If you ever wondered what alcohol I drink on a Friday evening, it's rosé. And I've got my Clive and Jill t-shirt. I love it, man.

I love it. Is that an Etsy thing? That is a design by my good friend Morgan Rushden, who is one of the performance directors on Final Fantasy 16. Awesome. He, so if you ever seen me wear kind of like crazy Final Fantasy T-shirts on the internet, so the one I watched the Game Awards or the Golden Joysticks,

like Morgan's that guy. So he makes me custom t-shirts and he made me this one. That is so cool. A little nod to my favorite Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy 8. Of course, of course. Well, they're hugging that. That's like kind of spoilery. So careful.

Yeah, exactly. We're going to spoilers. Welcome to the spoiler cast, everybody. A Final Fantasy 16. It's been a very long time coming. We're actually almost a month away from the year anniversary of Final Fantasy 16 coming out, which is absolutely wild because it would have been about a year ago to the day, Andy, that me and you went down to L.A. and got to play the game for the first time.

We played like their opening like five hours of the game, immediately falling in love with it, beat the game. We've gushed about it for a long time. But the demand was there from everybody. When are we getting the spoiler cast? And I was like, just hold on. We're trying to get the time right, whatever. One of the big things is I wanted to get Ben. I wanted to make sure that we could give him the opportunity to hang out and talk about all the spoilers.

Because I know you are such a big Final Fantasy fan. And obviously this is a huge deal for you being the lead in a Final Fantasy game. I want to give you the opportunity to talk about it with us, all of our favorite moments, everything that went on in it. So that's exactly what we're going to do. Ben, you haven't had the opportunity to do this yet, right? Not really. No. I mean, I've spoken about aspects of it.

But really, this is going to be my first opportunity to actually get into the weeds a little bit. I will emphasize that I didn't make Final Fantasy 16, so a lot of this will just be my interpretations as a performer behind it. But it's been, we sent really early on when I came to SF to kind of do that first games daily, that this was something that we wanted to do together and we wanted to make it happen. And, you know, because you guys have been, you know, the way you've refocused kind of funny, it means that we are able to do something like this. It wouldn't have been possible before. and as soon as I got the message I was like fucking hell yeah let's go yeah let's go

that that is awesome I mean actually just starting at the top before I get into the rig ball and everything obviously you've beaten Final Fantasy 16 correct have you platinum did yet I know you're a platinum poppy out there yes I have yes

my guy have you have you played through the DLC I've actually not played through the rising tide yet I obviously know lots about it but I haven't so I'm I'm the I'm yeah sorry guys I haven't actually finished everything so I can't talk about it. Anyway, please tell me how it is. I haven't played it, but I've watched loads of people play through it

because I'm that kind of weirdo that jumps onto streams and watches people play stuff. And obviously, I've recorded all of it. So I know pretty much everything there is to know about that. Yeah. I'm going to need help with the Rising Tide stuff. So yeah, I was about to bring it up. Where were you at, Andy? I'm going to need help with the DLCs.

You know, this was a questionable spoiler cast. Tim was like, do you all want to be on? this one? Do you, you know, like I, I know it's been, we're a bit far removed from experiencing this big journey. And I was like, hell yeah, mark me down. And as we got closer and closer, and as my newer adventure back into Eldon Ring kind of took over, I was like, man, you know, I, I don't know if I have what it takes to kind of hop back into this world. And then I kind of, like, started watching more clips of just the experience. And it was like, okay, I'm freaking I'm all coming back. I need to finish the freaking DLC. You got to. So wait, did you,

play any of it yet. No, I haven't even touched it. I haven't touched it. I have a good time ahead of you. I like, did the install finish yes. And then I... Okay. Yeah. So it's installed, Tim. Good. I can go play right now if you. So this will be a spoiler cast, kind of covering everything. But obviously, as you just heard, as two out of three

people here, haven't finished it yet. Probably not going to be too much about that stuff. But remember, this is the kind of funny games cast. Each and every weekday, we are live right here talking about video games. All the things that you love about them. We're live all day here on YouTube and Twitch, we go from Games Daily, into games cast, into a fun game stream. And on Fridays,

like today, we also have a fun trivia show in between called Kind of Funny Game Showdown that's happening right after this. For a chance to be part of this show, submit your thoughts and opinions and questions as YouTube super chats to ask Ben Starr. Some housekeeping for you, Kind of Funny Games is an 11-person small business that's all about talk shows. You've already got Greg and Mike breaking down all the college football stuff and Call of Duty coming day one to Xbox Game Pass after this, like I said, game showdowns happening, and then Nick will conclude his Pokemon journey as he faces the Elite 4 to become the Pokemon Master I always knew he would be. Thanks for making our dreams a reality Patreon producers Delaney Twining, Kieran, Povasapian, and Carl Jacobs,

you really are the best of us today. We're brought to you by the kind of funny membership, but I'll tell you about that later. Let's get into it. Final Fantasy 16. It's time to spoil it. Andy, I want to start with you. If there was one moment you wanted to talk about that we haven't been able to talk about, what would it be? I mean, when I think about the journey

and just how much hype there was revolving around, a lot of these major boss fights and just a crazy scale and amazing visuals and all of the music sort of culminating together, all of that stuff is absolutely incredible top tier. But what really got me was, was the final embrace between Clive and Joshua and sort of like it just that moment was just so well performed and also the Clive and Jill moment on the shores.

Because like that's where the writing really, really impressed to me. That's where I was so impressed by these performances. And that's why I still think that Clive and Jill is like the best slow burn of a relationship that I've ever experienced in media. because there was tons of like will they won't they and you know they will but like god damn it just felt so freaking satisfying when they finally like embraced each other and they're naked on a beach and it was amazing it was beautiful and like and i was crying dude like this this game brought me to tears in multiple multiple different moments um yeah so i would say clive and jill and then clive and

joshua near the end that like that was just like so fucking heartbreaking and just so you could hear the torture in Ben's voice as he was going through those voice lines and yeah all of that stuff was just absolutely incredible. Yeah, it's crazy to now just be unshackled and be able to talk about this because obviously in the review and even in the game of the year conversations about all this stuff like we don't want to spoil the moments or anything. So it's like we would, I'd feel like we got up to like the accept the truth, If it were moment and it was like we could talk about that. But we haven't been able to talk about the Titan fight, Bahamette, the entire end sequence of like calling back to all the different icons and dominance and like the saying the final fantasy line like

oh my god the last hour two hours of this game are just like perfection to me then what would be the moment that you want to talk about the most so there were there were moments what i thought there were moments that i thought would really resonate and there were the moments that i thought that weren't particularly good when i did them but afterwards when you see them back you go actually you're not a very particularly good judge of your own work. Because they, like, the moments that really worked were ones that I didn't think actually worked in the room. And there are two of them. One is the accept the truth scene, which I didn't think was particularly good when I did it,

because it was so technically difficult for me to act alongside myself. And I felt like I was battling against, I was, there was me and there was my younger self. And I thought, are people going to find me out? I'm actually doing a good job. So when I saw it back, I went, oh, I don't hate that, which for me is a sign of, like it's quite good but the one that really surprised me that people keep clipping and sending to me and going this is a really cool scene is the scene where Clive confronts Annabella for the first time after however long and he sees her in the room and he just fucking goes off at her like

where he um says um where he basically explains how he goes on this almost like um childlike rant where he starts off in the voice that Clive is kind of taken on for himself at this point in the game, and then kind of regresses to a child by the end of it, where he almost wails and screams at her. It's like Joshua's every waking moment and then just goes off and just shouts at her

in this high-pitched scream. And it was because the director said to me, just do what you want. And I just gave this performance, which isn't technically probably a very good take, but it felt really honest and real at the time, because what happens when you see your parents for the first time in ages,

or when you go back for Christmas or something, you regress into that child that you were. And it felt really, really honest to do it. And at the time, I thought, that seems okay. But seeing people react to it and resonate with, it resonate with people has really been the coolest thing of, that seems to be the scene that people really, really love. And I've learned to love it too over the past year

as more and more people get to that moment and go, yeah, that seems to be the moment that people really click with Clive, I think. Yeah, I mean, for me, it was a similar one. it's the meaning of him and Byron. Oh my God. Like them kind of like being able to reunite and the performance you gave that was just spectacular. But like I feel like that's a moment in the game that really kind of kicked the story into

like the next gear for me of like, oh wow. Like there's so much more to this. And I feel like Byron's character had so much depth to him in the relationship between Clive and him was like very special. I've said this. I've mentioned it a couple of times in public. But I really want to emphasize that what an amazing dog's the term job, Stephen Richelow did as Byron.

And I was in the room when we did that scene. And he is this was this incredible, very charismatic, mercurial, theatrical performer, who also is in Final Fantasy 14 as well. And a couple of years into the making of the game, he passed away. And it was this very, very sad moment where it felt like art of the family had kind of passed.

And there were discussions about how we continue the work that Stephen had done. We didn't want to erase it because it was just like you said, it's so beautiful and so heartfelt and amazing. And they managed to find an amazing act called Ewan Bailey who takes over the role. And so what you get is you get Stephen from beginning to end, but you also get bits of Ewan in there as well. And you and is one of Stephen's really, really close friends. And so not only was he able to kind of continue on his legacy, he sounds like him and he felt like he was continuing his friend's legacy. his friend's legacy as well. And so there was this really beautiful honoring

of what Stephen brought to the character. And it was always a treat doing scenes with Stephen, particularly that scene of just getting to be theatrical with a human being who is as effervescent as Stephen and for that to bring that out. And every scene you see with Byron is like that. He brings that much-needed levity.

I personally think that Clive is a great character, but he's showcased best when he's opposite, people like Sid, people like Byron, that kind of reflect his humanity better. And that's why I think people have resonated with Clive, not because of necessarily my performance, but because or the other people's performances who play Clive, the amazing other people who dub it in many other languages. It's the way in which Clive reacts to those brilliant characters who are around him, Stephen's performance and Ewan's performance as Byron being one of them. I thought it was just also expert writing and direct

in that moment to have the the hearkening back to their childhood sort of experiences with the make believe games that they play and just having that realization from Byron in that moment. And that's where like the cut scenes and directing really, really shine for me because they're

so well animated. The facial capture and the motion capture is just so incredibly well done. And seeing that reaction in real time to like oh my God, my boy. Like this like another tearful moment because it just feels so wholesome and earnest in that moment.

Yeah, that's another... I think this game was just chocked full of those little moments that you could... Again, like I mentioned at sort of what my favorite moments are, you can easily just focus on the gigantic, amazing boss fights, but there's so many great emotional beats throughout. There's so much that happens that I just forgot about, like the splitting of the sea from Odin, right?

Like, that is just such an amazing moment that I feel like in other games would have been like the spectacle thing. And then this was like, oh, it's just a thing that happens two-thirds through. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Ben, when you were recording this,

like obviously when movies are made, they're often like shot out of order and all of that. Like when you recorded the lines, was it chronological or was it very kind of like this piece here, this piece here? And like, did the story make sense to you as you were performing it versus like, or did like playing through it actually feel like the first time

you truly understood the narrative of it? No, I fully understood the narrative as we were doing it. I did it for four years. is. It's difficult to not know every aspect about it. Clive kind of became an aspect of my personality over that period of time. But I need to, Ben. I'm kind of right there with you. You and I, right? We're both Clive in some way. You more than I. Two pieces of fun. Yeah, look at us. We, I think that we did it. We did a lot of in order. So we did a lot of them main quest stuff quite early on. So I got a real sense of the arc of the

character and then you kind of fill it in as you go like all video games are made in sections so when they're a bits ready that's when you make them right and um i was i always had to go in first because because we recorded it in english first it meant that i would always have to do my stuff so then it can be dubbed into other languages afterwards and then they would go off what we did um but i yes i was i got very very close with the writing team the directing team and um obviously because I was in there every single day. So I was having conversations, not just whilst I was there, I was having constant conversations throughout the entire process

about where Clive was going. And I think it's impossible to chart his journey because it is just so vast from being 15 to, you know, in his early to mid-30s, by the end of it, you have to know where he's going. Otherwise, you just don't really want to, this is my saying, gross, you don't want to blow your load too early. You need to feel like you're earning these moments.

And so they were very, very good at keeping involved but when it came to recording you know we we've got to get the big set pieces done first you've got to get the big you know um DG moments done but you know every now and again a big moment will come and we go oh my god that's cool we're gonna finally do that or revisit other moments it it did come in sections but as the arc goes I would say pretty early on night I think I recorded the final lines of the game which are and thus did our journey end I recorded that maybe two years into recording so um we had another two years years afterwards.

So I knew where Clive was ending up, you know, by that point. I always think of moments in whenever we see behind the scenes footage of table reads from Game of Thrones and you see the cast and crew sitting there and they're kind of reacting to the stories. Like, were there any moments while you were reading the script that you were personally shocked by that you, you know, maybe caught you off guard during the, while you're just like in your hotel room or in your trailer? or, Ben, where are you?

They got you in a trailer? What are you doing there? Yeah, I'm just, I'm just hanging out in trailers. Random people show them. It's like to hang out trailers. So I would, when I first got the part, they handed me a squit, which was like, like a screenplay. It was 675 pages long. Holy shit. And that was the main quest.

They'd written, it was like this thing. I think I've still got it on a PDF. And that was in 2019 when I first received that script. I obviously didn't read all of it because it changes over time it develops. And as the game continued, they started, I think Koji has even said this, like they started writing more and more in my voice as we would continue on because things would work and, you know, games aren't just scripts. There are so many other aspects to it that we are simply but gilding the lily with narrative-wise,

because there's gameplay and you know all of these things I'll happen what video games are but I loved sometimes doing blind reads and so when we did the the scene that you talked about and the you know the moment it got clive cradling Joshua deeply weeping openly weeping that is me crying because Jonathan who plays Joshua had already done his stuff so I was listening to him as we were doing that scene. And I, it was a nine-minute scene, I think I'd be nine-and-a-half-minute scene. And they said, do you want to see this beforehand?

Often I would look at the scene and then record my lines. And I went, no, actually, let's just do this off the cuff. And so that entire scene that you see is me improvising, or improvising, doing the lines as I see them on the screen, me reacting exactly to what Jonathan is giving me in that moment. And that was cool. feels really honest to me because that is my immediate reaction to feeling like my brother is literally sacrificing himself in front of me. And that's why I think a lot of people resonate with that

scene because it feels really raw because it is. There are no kind of refined edges to it. It is actually me just breaking down and crying at the death of my brother. The most heartbreaking thing that could possibly happen to him at that moment and very, very unexpected. So yeah, that's probably the moment where I went because I was reacting to that. I knew he was going to die. I just didn't know how he was going to die. And it was really cool to see. So we were talking about towards the end of the game. I got to ask Ben, what's your take on the end of the game? Because it's kind of left up to people's interpretations. What is your interpretation of what's happening to Clive? This is it, isn't it? This is the moment. I have been asked this.

more than anything. I have probably hundreds, maybe thousands of DMs asking me what the, what the ending of the game is. So once again, I didn't write the ending of the game, but I have to play something. And I think the beauty of it is the ambiguity. Schrodinger's cat, right, where you don't know, is he alive or is he dead? It's entirely up to you. And as an audience member, I think it's intentionally delivered that way. That if you want Clive to be alive, he is as alive as he would be dead to you. But I think if we've examined, from my point of view, what has Clive done through this entire game

is he's done things with conviction. And I think that when he says, you know, he makes that oath towards the end. And he says, you know, even if it means the end of me, he means that he fully believes that he's willing to sacrifice himself in order to save the world. Because that is what Sid would have wanted,

what Sid did, what Sid would have done, and he wanted to do that. So he was like, I'm going to destroy all magic and make the world a better place. And I don't care if it means at the end of me because this is a dangerous thing. So he fundamentally realizes that he's willing to sacrifice himself. Now, what I will say is that fate always has other ideas for Clive. So there is always a reason that maybe he doesn't. But I think Clive believes that he is. And that's what I can say is that he is willing to sacrifice himself in order to make the world a better place for the people that he loves, for Jill, for Gav, you know, for Torgle.

Torgle, it's important to it. For Torgulg. He does everything he does. So that's what I would say is my interpretation of the ending is Clive fundamentally believes that he's willing to sacrifice himself to save the world. And he believes that this amount of magic in an individual is far too powerful for any one individual to have. And there's a lovely moment of honesty where he kind of looks at his hand and he kind of, he just realizes that he's dying. And it's this kind of like sad, almost gallows humor of going like, oh, I think I'm, I think I'm going to die now. And if I'm going to die, then I'm going to put use this magic to some use.

Now, does the universe, does the wider, do the fates have something different in store for him? maybe if you want to believe that, but he believes that he is sacrificing himself. I mean, it was a powerful end. I remember I was crying soon in this thing and then the credits hit and then we get the book reveal

at the end, which I thought was just such a fun little thing to have at the end and like leave people kind of theorizing and guessing like what could that be? I got to follow up then, what's your take on that? How did Joshua write it? Well, it says that Joshua writes it, right?

So let's go with that. Let's say that would be a nice thing. Is Joshua a new title like Sid is? Like how, you know, Sid becomes just a moniker that people take on is maybe just Joshua a new title that some people take on in the world. I think what's been really lovely is people going back analyzing saying, well, Harpocrity says to Clive that he'd be a good writer and he always kind of jot stuff down. And maybe Clive is actually Joshua.

and maybe Joshua is just again a moniker, the idea of what this person is. I think we can see that names take on a whole new meaning. You know, they are no longer individuals, they're symbols. So could the book possibly be symbolic of what Joshua is? Always Joshua, in fact, alive. Did Clyde bring Joshua back? The Phoenix, man. Phoenixes don't die.

They don't die. Like, there is every reason why you can believe that. And I think there are enough threads for you to take away whatever you want from the ending. I think some people are, you know, some people have expressed their disappointment to me personally that there is a defined ending. But also, this is art, right? You can take away anything you want from it. It is yours. It is no longer ours. And I think there is a beauty. There is a real beauty in that. And, you know, getting onto the, I get a lot of people saying, what would, you know, what would life be like with Jill and Clive had Clive survived? And, you know,

you see the way that Clive is with Wallius in the rising tide and see. this is what Clive would have been like if he was a dad. This is what Clive would have been like if he had kids with Jill, that moment where they had this family. It's a really, really beautiful, beautiful thing to imagine. And I think that you should be allowed to, you should be allowed to imagine that if you want to. I like the idea of Josser just getting a lot of residuals

from these books that he's been selling. The publishers is really happy with the sales. Yeah, he's going well. I want to get to a couple of the super chats here. B. Blanco says, Everyone has a favorite Final Fantasy game, and this one is mine without a doubt. Thanks, Ben, forgiving, and character who has tremendous amounts of depth. Marsh Hero says, the Jill and Torgle moment at the end with Clive on the beach, far away dying, had me in shambles.

Holy shit, man. I mean, like, the way that that was just presented was just so, you just knew what was coming at the star. Oh, my gosh. There is, I've watched so many people stream that ending, and I love it. I'll nip into, like, streamers playing it, and I'll see that they're at the end, and I'll watch them. And there's an amazing streamer called Room B, who was watching the ending. And I recommend anyone going back and watching her stream because her reaction to the ending is quite exquisite.

It's that moment where, you know, Torgal is howling and Jill is there, weep. Like, Susanna is doing the most incredible job of, like, pouring her heart out. And she sees that Ultima is played by the incredible actor Harry Lloyd. And Harry Lloyd is, if you don't know his work, he's in Game of Thrones. He's done so many amazing, you know, he's an amazing theatrical actor, as well as film and TV. And Harry and Lloyd are the main characters from Dumb and Dumber. And so Rumi, through her tears, goes, Ultim is played by Dumb and Duma, and it is stuck with me from my entire play-through.

I can't see that ending now. Harry and Lloyd, by Dumb and Dumber. And it is my favorite reaction to the ending of that game, of her, through these overwhelming tears just realizing Lord Christmas it's too good it's too good

so shout out to Roombie she's great that is awesome Goldfish Boy one through three seven says hey guys I can't believe the spoiler cast is finally happening for all you what are your top final fantasies and for Ben

have you platinum Fallen Fantasy 16 he said yes and what is your favorite final fantasy at this point at 16 yeah I mean well the thing that like really got me into this world. As somebody who doesn't have

a huge pass with a lot of Final Fantasy's, we've talked about it before in our, like, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth and remake conversations. Remake and rebirth were really the ones that kind of got me in because of the, well, actually it was 15, because of the real-time combat sort of being introduced and, you know, I've never been the biggest fan of turn-based

combat in a lot of RPGs. And so I really, really vived with those just because the combat was so flashy and over the top. And but it was 16 that I keep on I was champion 16 so hard because I was so impressed by the writing of it and I was so impressed by

these little throwaway lines that are so inconsequential that you could still tell that that writer was being so damn creative in that moment right and that's what always impressed me about 16 so I kept on trying to like tell people hey if if kind of like

the cornyness of anime can kind of turn you off because it can turn me off sometimes and I love a lot of the wild weird stuff that happens in final five six seven rebirth and remake and I've I watched anime quite a bit you know and so I'm used to kind of the tone that those uh games give off but I know that that can be a turnoff for a lot of people but I kept on saying like this one is so so much different than what you think it is do not just expect like well what are we going to do now like that sort of fucking silly shit that happens in a lot of anime, but this one just felt like so, I guess just so adult themed. It felt so personal. It felt so impressive kind of experiencing these,

these lines of dialogue. And I really think it was like Sid getting introduced and having those back and force between Ben and Ralph Inneson and just watching them act opposite each other. And again, the writing was just so damn impressive that this one became my favorite one. And of course, all of the amazing, ridiculously hype boss fights with the insane soundtrack. And it's, I'll never forget the disappointment that me and Tim felt when Final Fies 16 was not nominated for Game of the Year. Because not only did we really, really love the game, but it was like, oh man, we are not going to get Final Fantasy 16 in the Game Awards Orchestra medley.

What a crime. We were robbed. What a crime. Yeah. Such a sad moment. I've said it a million times. Final Fantasy 10 will always be my favorite. Because you know, your first is always your favorite.

And I feel like it's not just because it's the first. It's such an amazing love story. It's such an amazing game. Like I hope that one day we get a remake of that and then more people can enjoy it because I do feel like the turn-based stuff. Like it makes it hard for me to recommend it to somebody like you. Ben. Well, real quick though, but, Tim, I think it may be time for Final Fantasy 14 and my journey to begin soon.

You think so? Well, because they're doing them. They have a Mountain Dew promo code. They have a Mountain Dew promotion. That's how they get you. You drink a bunch of Mountain Dew. You get like some fucking whatever. I don't know what you get from it.

But I'm like kind of in now. Okay. So like it just made me my chance to get into the world of Final Fantasy 14. Yeah. But yeah, 10 is my favorite. But I did. I said this when I reviewed 16 and I still stand by it. And even if it might not be a popular thing,

I do think 16 is the best when it comes to just quality of it on, full package. Not perfect, but I think it's the best. Ben, I just want to give you the opportunity to talk more about Final Fantasy 8. Final Fadier, yeah, it's my favorite. Look, everyone by now, if you know who I am, you know I love Final Fancy. I don't shut up about it. But I think the beauty of this franchise is exactly what you've discussed. It's an anthology series.

It's a series where is a series of ideas expressed in different ways. And you can enjoy whichever one you want to enjoy, and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you like Final Fancy 2 the most. Like you can love this franchise in the way that you want to love it. I think sometimes we can get a little hot-headed in our discussions and saying this is, you know, objectively better. It's not. It's all your opinion. Like I'm playing through rebirth right now.

I'm having the best time. I'm having the most amount of fun. I'm obsessed with Queen's blood. I don't want to leave the Cossadell soul. Parrot as a sailor is just one of the greatest images I've ever seen in my life. Like I'm absolutely adoring it. And I think we're so lucky to be. feasting right now on this franchise that has been around for 36 years, longer now, maybe,

I think, and we're still getting new entries that are as exciting as dynamic as when we first started playing them. But for me, it will always be eight. It's the one I first discovered it, but, you know, I'm not, by me saying eight, I'm not saying I don't love the others. Like, I will go to bat for 12. I know Lucy James, that's her favorite as well. Like, I think there's something so cool about 12. I love the mechanics behind it. No, the story may not be as vivid as some people might like it, I love the politics. I love the Star Wars style soundtrack. I love the Gambit system.

I think it's one of the coolest things. But yeah, Tim, 10, man, I put like 160 hours into that game. I respect the sphere grid. Oh, yeah. I defeated Penance. Like, I was in.

Blitzball for me might be my favorite mini game. Whoa. I know it's a controversial. I mean, that's a lot. Yeah, I mean, we all had to play it all

to get the legendary weapons, man. You're not like Bristol. You're not a bliss ball. You know, I feel like when I was young playing through it, I kind of didn't like it because I wanted it to be specifically the Blitzball part to be more actioning.

I'm like, how is this going to be the dopest sport I've ever seen in my life? And how are you going to open the game with the coolest cutscene of Titas doing the flip kick out of the water sphere thing? I'm like, this is so rad. And then you play through Blitzball and I'm like, some weird turn base. Like, no, I don't like this at all, man. And then you had to do so much of it to get the legendary weapon, Andy. So fucking much. But I did it.

I did put like 20 something out. into Final Fantasy 10. I think that was like the first Final Fantasy that I played actually. I was, I'll never forget having that GamePro magazine and just drawing Titus over and over again in Spanish class and just like sketching it in my sketchpad or whatever. Just kind of like being obsessed to that media like this existed. Because I've always, I've talked about Maya bringing and how, you know, growing up in a, in a Latin community that, you know, we didn't have comic book shops and all that stuff I just thought existed in movies. And the fact that like video games like this out there existed, like, holy shit, this is so

imaginative. And I got really, really into the world and the characters. And I think I got super stuck at one point. And then I just kind of like fell off of that game. But yeah, like initially just the look and the vibe and the aesthetic of Final Fantasy 10, I think is just like so elite. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah.

We're going to keep talking about Fallen Fantasy 16 right after a quick word from our sponsors. What's up everybody? I'm Greg Miller with a kind of funny programming update for you. From now on, the games cast is going to be on Friday. And Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday. That's right. We're making the kind of funny games cast live and daily. Why? Well, as you already know, 2024 is about doubling down on what we do best, our core content. So we've discovered that there are more than enough previews, reviews, reviews, and big topics that we're leaving on the table. And that means making the games cast daily,

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And we're back. Josh LaBordeaux writes in and says, just Sid. Like as a whole character. No question in particular. I just really liked Sid. Don't we all. Andy, what do you have to say about Sid? I mean, just introduced to the most, you know,

sultry voice you've ever heard in games. And again, it was one of those that you've seen Ralph in a lot of different pieces of media. You know, I recognized him from Game of Thrones. As soon as I Googled him was like, oh, that's a guy from Game of Thrones. And, of course, we'd heard his voice months prior to that in Diablo 4.

But I just loved the relationship that they took on. I think that they're back and forth, very antagonistic, very like brotherly, but also very much like older brother to younger brother of like, hey, my younger brother doesn't have a father figure. I'm going to kind of like take up the mantle. And I think that, again, the writing does so much, the performances do so much. And watching Sid eventually sort of see that character sort of evolve. and anytime we'd be back at the hideout, we'd hear that music. And it's very, very fascinated to me

the way, like my feelings on the music because I never 100% loved that hideout music. I just, you know, every once I'd turn it off at the little jukebox or whatever. It was never something that I fell in love with. But I thought it was like such an expert choice to use that music during Sid's death scene. And it like totally recontextualized my whole feel.

feelings around it. I'm going to most think about it right now. Like that having that music come back in such a cool way was it it reminds me of it reminds me listening to the music of the Shire and then seeing like hearing that music then later on near the end of the movie and like just having a new sort of perspective on it. It's so good, dude. It's so good. Yeah. I mean, Sid is incredible and I feel like him being introduced early on in the story and you're immediately like, well, this is I love you so much. And then to have him taken from us. You're the coolest. You're witty as hell. You're funny. Every line you have is awesome. You're epic. Everything's so cool.

And then, yeah, for him to die way early. I mean, first off, didn't expect him to die. Second off, didn't expect him to die so early in the story. And it really felt like his presence was going to be felt. I thought it was going to be a detriment to the game in the story to not have that character. But the choice to have Clive go by Sid and kind of live that legacy on was so inspired. and I just feel like I didn't see that coming

and I feel like they did a really good job of making that all worth it and really feeling like Sid's death was worth it and Sid everything Sid fought for and like the what he represented in the worlds of like with how all the magic is and him being a dominant and everything was just so masterfully done.

It's like the most selfless thing you can do. Like you are you are a dominant. You are all powerful and you know that what you're doing is wrecking the world. I can't think of a more selfless thing than to say, I'm going to transform right now to Rama and destroy this mother crystal. Like, that's so amazing.

There's a line that really stuck with me. And I can't remember the exact line that it is, but it's, it's the, when he talks about, like, Ramu taking over his body, essentially, you know, but he, no one else describes their relationship with a dominant like this. But Sid does, and it's again in Ralph's delivery, it's just absolutely amazing. It's so throwaway. It's about Ramu haunting this sack of bones is the way that he describes it. It's so evocative of like going, some of the character.

He fundamentally feels haunted by his relationship with this icon. He doesn't like being a dominant. He fundamentally doesn't like himself. There's this amazing self-hatred. And you couldn't get really a better actor to portray that very, very British self-hatred. than Ralph because it's so taking the piss. He takes the piss out of himself. There's something so gallows humor about everything.

The inevitability of his death. You see it coming. Like he's dying. And it's the sacrifice that they have to make. He knows that he's not going to survive this. And so he goes, well, at least I'm going to do something good with my death. I want to have a good death, but also a better life. And he is the paragon of what Clive wants to ultimately be,

but doesn't know how to. And so what you have is you show him that and you take it away. And it's, you feel, I think I personally felt it as a player, right? I felt, I felt going, oh, this isn't as fun now he's not around. Yeah. There's something really, there's something you lose it. Because obviously, Ralph's performance is absolutely iconic. I think, I will say, I think Ralph, Ralph's performance in Final Fantasy 16 is one of the greatest video game performances of all time.

Because it is so short and yet so iconic. It's so effective. So effective. It's like, get in, get out. And he has, there are so many amazing performances in this video game. His stands out because it's so, it's so his. He took the role and he made it his. No one else could play it like that.

And because of the strength that he brought to it, you just kind of, you feel bereft. You feel like this hideaway's kind of lost. And you feel that loss through Clive. Like, Clive's quite pathetic when you see him after five years. He's like, he hasn't primed. Well, he hasn't been able to prime since. Jill has had to prime the entire time.

So he feels like he's killing Jill. So when you first see them after that time skip, his mentor has died. He's suddenly become the leader of this revolution that he doesn't really understand, that he's doing blind. And the person that he kind of deeply loves the most in the world. He knows that he's killing

because she's the one who has to prime every time. And essentially because she can. And he has no control over his own icon. And it feels even, even though there's a sense of promise of moving on, I feel like Clive has kind of had a rest of development for a number of years when Sid goes and he has to almost relearn everything. And I think it is the strength of, it's the strength of Ralph's performance and how he has gone, this is my character. And in a year of amazing performances, you know, obviously Ralph has been celebrated. I'd love to see him celebrate it more because I really think he is, He's amazing and he was amazing with me. I don't think I would have been able to do half the stuff in this game,

where it not for what kind of Ralph setting the standard of what was required to do a good performance in this game. When you talk about the effectiveness of just being ridiculously efficient with your line delivery and your voice acting, another moment that stands out to me very early on is, you know, we're introduced to Benedicta, And we are kind of given little hints here and there of this relationship, of her and Sid having a past, right?

And that moment where Benedicta is, you have that big boss fight and it's awesome as hell. And when he's holding her in his arms and he's, he says, oh, Bene. Yeah. Like, dude, just those two words were just like so, like, immediately you got a gigantic glimpse of what their past was. Yeah, it fills in everything for you. You understood everything right then, and they're not just with the delivery,

with the use of the nickname, but the line read, the disappointment, the sadness, like the regret, it's all there in that little moment. Yeah. It's crazy because,

I mean, you're talking about how impactful the Sid's death was and it's like making the game less fun and all of that. Like, it is crazy because in Final Fantasy, like death means something oftentimes. And there are big character deaths, obviously we're talking about Ayrith.

and Final Fantasy's always talked about. I feel like Sid is going to be one of those ones we're talking about for a very long time. Like his death really, I feel like is up there with some of the most impactful character deaths in the game ever. I think this. Go ahead,

you go. You go. Oh, you? Okay, I will go. I got it. I got this. I got this. I got this.

I got this. It's going to be such a great point. It's going to be so worth it. No, you first. So you get Sid's death and then you have this five-year time jump. And there is this sense of kind of, um,

the tone changes. There is this kind of like, almost not like a darkness, but there's a sadness to it. There's something quite melancholic about the tone of the piece. And I think that's why people also resonate with the Byron scene so much, because it's the first time that you see a character that raises that, like kind of creates that levity again. And we welcome Byron's presence because it's familiar to us.

It's kind of parental in some way. And it feels like it's that same kind of like joy that we got from being around Sid when we get Byron. So I think they play off each other really, really well because up and that point, I think both Clive and Jill feel a little bit lost in what they're trying to pursue. And there's a lot of amazing dramatic moments and amazing beats before then. But it is that moment when you see Byron again. I think Byron's so impactful because of what we know we've lost with what Ralph gave to Sid.

And again, Stephen and Ewan did an amazing job of bringing Byron to life. I don't think there's any more encapsulation of them feeling lost than after the big time skip, right? and we see our two heroes together and, uh, you get that big fight with that big, like, fire cat or lightning cat. I forgot exactly what it was. But then you have all the, the enslaved people there with powers going like, hey, quit starting shit. You're making stuff worse for us.

And that's like such an awesome story moment to show Clive like, oh, fuck. Like, we're not just like the heroes. Like they, they're looking at us as like, you're really making things worse for us. Like, things are. already kind of bad, but you going out there and, you know, trying to assert your dominance as the dominant fire, you all are making the situation even worse for just us low living human beings. You know, I thought that was a really cool moment as well. Professor, I know, go for it, then.

I'm going to say, maybe I'm going off on a little tangent here, but it's something I do want to talk about is the, you know, we're talking about like different fights and different relationships with different, you know, enemies. Clive's relationship with Kukka, I think is super cool because there's just kind of, there's, I actually don't think there's any, there's not a huge amount of nuance there. It's just raw hatred. Oh yeah. It's like, it's just like on, and when we, when we did the scene where he kind of walks into the, walks into Rosalith for the first time, and then Kesey's Kukka destroy his father's throne. And there's, it's almost like Clive embracing his hatred he has a choice to diffuse this and I think as a diplomat he probably has had to do

that but there's this choice of going I could diffuse this but actually you know what I'm going to absolutely destroy this man yeah and I'm going to take pleasure in experiencing his pain because he's taking pleasure in my pain and there's that there's that moment where they both say now died each other and then in the fight he goes cross you I'll kill you like he means it he absolutely despises him with every ounce and then when he goes into um to fight him in the volcano and goes i'm coming for you kukkah like he knows that he's ready to just decimate this individual and that titan fight and the anger that you see the way that sokan's composed the music you see it is like it's just raw passionate hatred between two people one man who fundamentally believes that

clive has killed his beloved and klyv who believes that kukka has killed everything that he that he represents like the hideaway hundreds of his closest friends you know and they just want to just destroy each other and i took so much pleasure in playing those scenes because there was there was nuance but the nuance was utter hatred that's awesome and it's cool professor noctus in line with this says i'd like to know which of the scenes with icons and dominance ben found to be particularly powerful to act out did he intentionally channeled different sides of clive's character to match their energies. Also, do you have any behind the scene stories regarding the incredible Bahamit sequence? Yes. The one that I just said, no, I think every, every icon fight had its own tempo and texture.

Because Clyde was in a different state. So when Clive fights Benedicta, he doesn't really know who he is. And so there's this kind of questioning aspect of like him discovering who he is through the whole kind of like Garuda section. But there is a really satisfying moment when he fights Garuda when he's trapped like that. And then he kind of explodes. There's there was, yeah, it's really cool because he has his relationship with them. There's something a lot more focused when he fights Barnabas on top of the tower. I think he knows a lot more about who he is at that point. than when he fights Kubka, which is pure anger.

And then the Bahamas fight, which is almost, it's, it's, his hatred of Annabella is far, far outweighing his relationship with Dion, who he actually has a quite conflicted relationship with. But he's doing it to protect his brother. That scene, I think, is just badass. Coming in and then just like turning into a wall of fire and then fighting, you know, a dragon in space is badass. Oh, yeah.

I think that is, if people to do a vote, that's the, that's the coolest moment in the game, fighting Bahamut with Barack music playing on in the background. I mean, come on. It's insane, dude. Insane. It's insane. I remember, like, people reviewing it. I think even you text me as well. Like, people would text me reviewing it, and I knew when they were getting to that section.

I think I had five or six people going. I just did the most amazing thing ever. And it is usually that Bahamette fight. I feel like I texted you that like five or six times, like every couple hours. And it usually was the icon fights. I kept on questioning, how are they going to outdo this? And after two or three times about doing themselves, like, all right, they got this. I don't got to worry.

I'm going to be amazed by this. Shout out Gaff. Dude, I was good to bring up like, are there characters we want to talk about that I feel like don't get enough love? Because to me, it's Gav and it's mid. Two characters that I'm like, I really, really enjoyed. Some of the mid quests, I feel like there's just maybe too many of them. And I kind of expected her story to end in us getting an airship.

And it didn't. But I really enjoyed her performance and kind of her as a character. And, but yeah, Gav, man, just the homie. The entire game. Multiple ponytails. Great dude. Great dude. He, I think in a world where everyone's a superhuman, it's amazing to get the human perspective.

And I think so many people have resonated with Gav. And, you know, from my point of what Chris York brought to the role of, like, bringing everything down to the human level. You know, he's just a scout. He's just really good at the thing that he does. He doesn't have any superpowers. And like Chris is just, he's just so brilliant at bringing, again, a bit like Ralph, you know, there's something so British about his humour of just like very sharp, very quick, very self-deprecating.

And that's why people feel like if they're going to see anyone in this game, they're going to see themselves as GAV because we're not superhumans. So you'll see yourself as GAV as amongst all of these very, very powerful beings that are grappling with, ideas that maybe we can't think about. And there's that scene at the end of the game with them at the bar, you know, and Gav kind of questioning his own worth. And, you know, then Clive kind of drunkenly saying to him, like, dude, you're it, you know, you're the guy, you're the reason we're here. Like small acts are just as important as giant acts, giant acts. And it wouldn't be without, you know, we wouldn't be here without you. You are my best friend. It's so fascinating, Ben, because, like, GAV is essentially introduced as almost a tool for comedy.

Yeah, hymn-bo-y kind of. You have, you have Sid being like, yeah, go fucking scout ahead. Like this GAV guy, whatever. They go scout ahead. You know, you're doing great work, Gav. And initially, I don't really know how I feel about Gab. I think I'm just kind of like, ah, this fucking dude's back again, multiple ponytail men. but again the game does such a great job with

building these arcs and showing the depth of these characters and he's no longer just the funny dude that'll drop a one-liner here and there he eventually becomes a very very important part of the game and I was just super impressed by that development yeah yeah there is a moment I do really want to talk about

I've spoken about it I think before but my favorite moment in the game in general is the moment where Clive says to Jill just before he goes off to origin, I love you, Jill, and she says, I know. Because some people kind of, I've seen some people watch it on the stream, I think, oh, he's getting kind of like palmed off. But up until that point, we've never heard him say that. And I had a conversation with the performance director about how I wanted that to be delivered, which was, as if it were an apology of never having said it up till now like i should have said it a thousand times yeah should have said it every single day for my entire life and i haven't and so her saying i know

is that almost like psychic relationship that they have of going i know and i know that you've known it for your entire life and i feel the same way and i think the big you're talking about like beautiful writing and the simplicity of the writing of like two lines that sums up an entire relationship and i think susie's susy's delivery of that line is kind of heartbreaking you know she kind of like has this almost like exhale laugh. I've got the sad irony that we're doing this now. And it's like going, I love you.

I don't think I'm going to come back. And so they live out their entire past, their entire present and their entire future in that small exchange. And then they move on. And if you really watch that scene with that context, I think it is just so fucking powerful. And yeah, so I love it.

I love it a lot. And I love Susie's work in that scene. And it's, you're made to be super sad because you feel like you know what's going to happen. Like you're just mentioning Bennett's. You feel like, fuck, I should have said this a long time ago.

You feel the sadness there. And then you ride on the back of a fucking space dragon. Yeah. And have like one of the coolest cutscenes of Clive and Joshua on the back of Bahamas. They're just doing all these like barrel roll. Dude, that sequence is so sick. Well,

what was your, your moment of the game? If you had to choose the one, Andy. It's except the truth. Yeah. Like I, that, I think that moment is just so perfectly built up and executed. Like, there was nothing they could have removed or added to make that better.

It was like, of all, in all of the multiverses where all of the different developers made that moment, this is the one Dr. Strange moment. We're like, this is the one where everything was so pitch perfect. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. How many times have we said except the truth? last year. Like, it's insane. I love that. To me, it's gotten to the,

it's ascended Final Fantasy fandom and, in my opinion, become like a just a gaming meme. Yeah. You know, like it's awesome. It's incredible. Yeah. For me, I mean, it's the most obvious thing for anybody that knows me, but the line, the only fantasy here is yours and we shall be its final

witness. It is the corneous, stupidest thing ever, but the way that it is built to and performed and everything, it's so, earned and so awesome. I love the final fight for a lot of reasons, but for me, the biggest one is the music.

It is the use of the themes that we've heard the entire game just being escalated so much, but melding it with the main final fantasy theme throughout the, I'm getting chills right now just thinking about this, but getting all of the different icons and him kind of hearing the voices of all the different characters.

Do with Uncle Byron. Oh my God. Say it, all of it, and it building to this moment, it really kind of, it had that feeling of like, this is Final Fantasy series finale type shit. Like it was so, so cool to me.

Yeah. I've got a real shout outline that I love that I wish I could do word for word. I can't. I've tried to remember it many times. But it is at the end of the game when Clive is standing over Ultima's body. And then he basically asks, why do you continue on knowing that ultimately you're all going to die? And then Clive goes, because it's who we are. We're imperfect creatures.

And this whole speech that he gives, and I think it's been like three lines long, you know, we see the horizon ever out of reach and still we march on because that is our way. And I think it is this beautiful distillation of humanity in like four lines of going. We understand that life is so is futile that we're going to make mistakes.

We're going to fall down. We're going to do all of these things, but we just do it anyway. Because ultimately we have hope. And that's the most powerful thing. And I think it's a really beautiful message that sometimes gets lost in the like, it's a very dark fantasy game and going, no, this game is about hope. It's about belief.

And knowing that even though there is so much darkness in this world, we recognize that we are going to make so many mistakes. But it doesn't matter. Free will. Because we have friends. Yeah, free will. We have friends. And there's a reason why at the end where he goes, you know, I'm doing this with my brothers, my sisters. You know, he has friends.

And an ultimate, ultimate is ultimately alone. And that's the difference is Clive is standing there opposite Ultimer's a one-on-one fight, but he beats him because he has the power of all the people coming back to him to fight him. And that's why he beats him is because it's not about being alone. It's about being surrounded by people, which is really, really cool. And even though, you know, Clive is on the beach at the end, he's not on the beach alone. He's looking up at the moon that he shares with Jill. He's there surrounded by, in spirit with all the people that have affected him up to that point.

and I think he recognizes that. And so, you know, when he's on that beach, he isn't by himself at all. He's content, I think. I don't think there's going to be a better end to this Final Fantasy 16 spoiler cast than that. Ben, thank you so much for your amazing performance in this video game, for being such a good friend to us here,

kind of funny, and also just for being such an awesome dude. And making great stuff over doing your D&D thing. Tell us a little bit about Natural Six. It's a cool D&D show. We record Natural 6. You can catch us on YouTube. We release episodes every other Tuesday. It's me and a lot of other really cool video game people doing a fun D&D campaign.

If you've never played D&D before, come and watch this. We're only four episodes in, but we've got many more to go. Absolutely. Go do that, everybody. Andy, thank you for joining us. This was a very good time. That was a great time. What a game, man.

The whole time now I'm like, I don't have time. to replace 16. Oh man. When it comes to PC, holy shit, man. We're so back, baby. Ben, thank you again so much for hanging out with us. We will see you soon, hopefully. But until next time, everybody, thank you for hanging out with us for this.

Share this with all of your friends. Please, if you know anybody that likes Final Fantasy 16, this is the kind of funny episode to show them. And hey, for everybody else, if you're watching live right now, if you're on Twitch, you can just stay right here. But if you're on YouTube, you're going to need to make the jump over to kind of funny game showdown where I'm about to kick

Andy Cortez's ass. Oh, yeah. But until next time, I love you all. Goodbye. Goodbye, Joshua. Goodbye.