Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Ghost of Tsushima Director’s Cut Review - Kinda Funny Gamescast Ep. 86

Episode Date: August 19, 2021

Go to http://betterhelp.com/kindafunny and take care of yourself. Go to http://freshly.com/kinda to get $40 off your first 2 orders! Go to http://expressvpn.com/kindafunny and you can get an extra 3 months FREE! GameSpot’s Lucy James joins Greg, Blessing, and the Xcast’s SnowBikeMike to talk about Ghost of Tsushima Director’s Cut and 12 Minutes! Follow Lucy: http://www.twitter.com/lucyjamesgames Ghost of Tsushima was provided by PlayStation for review purposes. Time Stamps: 00:00:00 - Start 00:03:45 - Housekeeping 00:06:26 - Ghost of Tsushima Director’s Cut Review 00:31:10 - Slight Early Spoilers 00:33:23 - Out of Spoilers 00:53:21 - The Games and Online Harassment Hotline Interview 01:24:31 - 12 Minutes Review Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. Without a healthy mind, being happy is hard. Visit betterhelp.com slash Kind of Funny and see if online therapy is for you. What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Kind of Funny Games cast. I'm one of your host, Greg Miller, alongside the future class of video games. Blessing, Adio, Ye, Jr. Greg, I really admire the LED lights he got in the background.

Oh, thank you. You know, they're hot. Just like we're talking about it. I even sent Tim Getty's a little slack there. Of course, Tim Geddy's your usual host of the games cast bit in both eyes by a snake. Not again. Again, I'm sorry, Barrett. This snake is out to get all the kind of funny.

Even after the PSA by one Matt Batson? It's, you know what? There's a great PSA from Matt Batson on Twitter. You can go see about this. But yes, Tim has been bitten in the eyes by snakes. And what's really screwed up is that he was with Andy. And Andy went over to help him. Andy bit in both eyes, same snake.

It's, you know, there's one snake out there that just ate this. And it's all about it right now. But yeah, I did text him. Or actually, I guess I texted Gia, who read him on his hospital deathbed, what colors do I put up behind me? And he took too long to respond and I went and watched the video

because I remembered I could do that and I set my lights the exact same way. Hell yeah. They say it because right now you have it as purple and blue and they say that those are the games cast colors. Pink and blue. This is pink.

All right. It's like the classic kind of funny colors. Purple is. The purple was before when I did the Avengers stream I had purple up. Yeah, it was very different blessing. Come on. Keep on blessing.

I'm just saying games cast historically as everybody knows has always had purple as the main color. Again, I mean, Tim did get back to me. Tim did get back to me and he said, what colors do I need to make my background to be like you for games cast, lull? He says, I do a mix of teal purple and dark pink. Wow. So I actually, you know, Tim doesn't use comma. So teal purple and dark pink, teal purple. Oh my god. How is it this off the rails five seconds into this show? One of our other hosts for the day, ladies and gentlemen,

hails from the kind of funny Xcast. You know him, you love him. He's the master of hype, Snowbike, Like, hello, Snowycycle. Hey, thanks for having me on Games, Kasku. I'm really excited to talk video games. I will say, along with the lights, Greg, you do look great, and the jacket looks really good, but you're missing one, you know, hero behind you. I'm kind of missing the Black Panther statue behind you.

I thought, even for Greg Miller, there comes a level of oversaturation. And the fact that I'm cold, so I'm wearing the Avengers jacket, I still have the cap shield behind me. I thought maybe the King of Wakanda was too much, and I pushed him out of frame. but he's still right there, don't worry. He's on his fair world, too.

Are they going to take it back? They say they're going to take him back. They say they're going to take him back. Jen is going to send him away. Now, I need Lucy. I'll introduce you for real in a second, but Lucy, I need your help more than anybody to say, hey, that's really great. That really ties the back.

I don't want to give the Black Panther back. You know what I mean? Like, I want him to stay. But yeah, Jen's all creeped out. Under false pretence is just send me a picture because I haven't really seen the new space. Just be like, hey, Lucy, what do you think of the day? then kind of coming together and I'll be like, yo, that Black Panther statue has to stay ties the whole room together.

Yep. Okay, cool. I like that. I like that. Thank you for the help. Of course, ladies and gentlemen, that's my former roommate and my forever friend. That's GameSpot and Giant Goms. Lucy James.

Hi. Lucy, how are you? Thank you for having me. It's so nice to be here. I miss you all. I know. Well, thank you for staying up, right? You are, of course, in the UK.

It is 1128 p.m. there right now. Oh, this is the Sopranos hours. like I said when I chat to you the other day. So don't worry. I'm just, you know, this is just Sopranos time. Okay. Well, I'm going to have to divert your attention from Sopranos because this, of course, is the kind of funny games cast.

Each and every week we come together to talk about all the things we love and sometimes don't love about video games. If you love that, though, you can go to patreon.com slash kind of funny games to be part of the show with your questions, your comments, your concerns and everything under the video game sun. I thought it wasn't going to nail it at all a blessing. Then I thought I was really going to screw it up. And it was just a minor wobble.

And I'll take it. You did good. When do I ever host the games cast? I don't know what I'm doing. Of course, on Patreon.com slash Kind of Funny Games. You can write it to be part of the show. You can get the show ad-free. You can get the show with the exclusive post show we do each and every week.

And of course, usually you can be watching the show live. But today we have too many embargoes for that, so we won't be doing that. That means you'll be getting it later on YouTube.com slash Kind of Funny Games games. You can also get it on roosterteeth.com or podcast services around the globe. No matter where you get the Kind of Funny Games cast. Thank you for your love, your support. Please consider like, subscribe. share, tell your friends, and all that jazz.

You could go the extra mile, of course, and be like our Patreon producers, Julian the Gluten Free Gamer, James Hastings, Casey, Andrew, Elliot, and Brian Ward. Of course, that puts us right into the thick of housekeeping. So let me tell you, of course, today we're going to be talking about 12 minutes, but that isn't the end of the conversation about this little game. If you want to get more about 12 minutes, tune into this Saturday's Xcast. That's right, Snowbike Mike Show, the Xcast will be over there.

It will be Barrett. It will be Khalif Adams, and we'll all be talking. about 12 minutes in the second half of the show, a spoiler cast. So if you haven't played it, you're waiting for the weekend. Don't worry. You'll still get a good X-cast conversation about games beforehand, but then we're going to go, gloves off, spoilers. This episode of kind of funny games cast when we talk about the review for 12 minutes will, in fact, be spoiler-free. So don't worry about that. If that wasn't enough for the show, maybe like, am I on the wrong games cast? Is the thumbnail wrong? No, we're going to review Ghost of Sashima as well on this episode of the games cast.

And if that wasn't enough, we have an interview with J. Lin from the Games and Online Harassment Hotline to talk about the Hotlines one year anniversary. We'll get to all of that. And I'll tell you about our sponsors. Oh, and I didn't copy them down. Dang, hold on. Blessie, fill time. Say something. Oh, man, Lucy, it's nice to have you back. I know you've been in Britain for the last few months. How's that going? How's the UK going? You guys going fine. It's like, it's really nice to be back in a weird way just because everything has changed and nothing has changed at all. Catching up with folks who have missed. Obviously, staying with my family right now. Process to get back is taken a little longer because then not expected. Tam and I are both kind of in the same boat there. But making it work.

Making it work. You know who else is making it work? Our sponsor freshly, I'll tell you about them later. But for now, let's begin the show with talking about Ghost of Sushima's or Sushima. I've been trying to beat it out of myself. Sushima, not Sushima. Sushima. Sushima. Ghost of Sushima director's cut. That's right. We have it. Game provided by PlayStation,

of course, PlayStation sent us copies for review for this very purpose. So let's talk about Ghost of Sushima director's cut for the review. Of course, the original game came out on your PlayStation for July 17th, 2020. It has a metacritic right now of 83, which I believe is criminally underrated and outrageous, but we don't have to worry about that thing. Everybody gets the second chance to atone for their mistakes with the director's cut dropping this Friday, the 20th. Let's go around the horn. Blessing. How much of Ghost of Tsushima directors kind of have you played?

I've played enough to have completed the mainline story in the DLC. And maybe probably like an hour past that as well. Like I've explored around, played some proper Tsushima outside of Ike Island. Just to get an idea of what the next gen version of this game actually feels like. But then I also have done a few of the side things over on Ike Island. And I have completed the main campaign. So that's run me about three to four hours. Okay.

Snowbike, Mike, where are you with Ghost of Sushima? Damn it. Directors cut. Greg, I am 11 hours in to my play-through. Fun enough, this is my first time ever playing Ghost of Shushima. I'm going to nail that one as well as I continue to practice that. But this is my first time ever playing the game, so I'm happy to jump in with the director's cut. And I think that's a conversation we should have later on about director's cuts and optimization patches.

It pulled me in, and, you know, you asked me to join the games cast. I didn't know where Iki Island would start. So I just blazed a trail right on through Act 1 into Ike Island, completed through the main objectives on that one. And I've been having a ton of fun. I look forward to talking about it. But what's more important is that yesterday I asked you to come on the Games cast. Since yesterday afternoon, you've played 11 hours of Ghost of Tsushima?

I started at 5 p.m. I believe. And I had a piece of ash as well in my eyeball, so it hurt really bad. But I went through until. Tahoe was on fire. Yeah, exactly. It's on fire right now. You know, you never know. But I went through all the way till about 3 a.m.

And I think that's a testament to this game. It really captured me because a lot of you guys know you spent a lot of time with me. I am known for more of the online multiplayer games as a service, play with your friends and hang out in that kind of game space. So it takes a lot to capture me in a single player game. And this one really grabbed a hold of me. And I'm really pleased about what I experienced, which is cool. Mike, wait until I tell you about legend, man.

We're about to get lost. Yeah. Uh, myself, I am, uh, further than I guess anybody where I've played, I've beaten the, the storyline too, which is about going after the eagle, which will, again, we're not going to spoil things. I might bring up something very, in the beginning, like literally in the first cut scene you'd get in that, uh, goes, uh, the Ike Island expansion. Uh, and then now I've just been running around Ike, uh, doing everything.

I have, uh, I would say, I mean, I would get really granular with it and probably be like, I have 90%, 95% of the island fog of war exposed. I've been going through doing all the question marks, but there's still a corner over here that I know has at least one Mongol base for me to go into clear out that way. And I would say what? I think when I slacked about beating the Eagle story, that was, I said three hours. It's kind of, you know, somewhere in there in terms of that story content that was golden pathing it. Like, because we got our review code on Monday.

And of course, then we're recording this on a Wednesday for the Thursday morning embargo. It's been very fast, let alone your regular day-to-day work. And so after that, I was like, okay, cool, now I'll knock out the bunch of the island. And I still have a bunch of question marks on it. I still have a bunch of stuff to do. It is more Ghost of Sushima, which is good or bad, but we'll talk about that in a second. Now, here's where you went to the picture, Lucy. I know you've played a bunch of 12 minutes.

You're ready to talk to us about that. Have you touched directors cut yet? Don't have it. Don't have it. But I did platinum, I did platinum base game. Yeah. And I played a bunch of legends. So I am here as the, I'm the audience in this.

I've got the questions for you. I'm going to follow up on points that you make and ask questions. That's why I love having you here. Obviously, when we're living together, housing together, it was that thing of, I remember you platinum me. I remember you coming out and us trading stories for where we were and what was going on with it.

Trading spring locations. Oh, God, yeah, you know what I mean? Like so many things like that. Is this one of the ones I think I borrowed the GameSpot guide from when it was in progress? Yeah. Can you please send me this? I need help platinum it.

Yeah. So this is, of course, the full game of Ghost of Tsushima that came out, of course, like I said, in 2020. Now you get this Iki Island expansion, which is this big new area, like we said, three hours of story there in terms of golden pathing it, but then a whole much other stuff to go through. Of course, it comes with legends. You get, you know, there's new, skill tree stuff I don't want to get into too much. There's new charm stuff. There's more stuff to go through and do there. And then, of course, in September, they're launching on top of that.

Rivals mode for Legends, Blessing. I know you're stoked for this one. New trophies, new cosmetics. This is, of course, another way for you to go out and play with each other in Legends mode. But we'll talk about that for now because that's not actually happening right now. We've been playing this on PS5. We've been playing the single player stuff. Reading, of course, from exactly what they wrote way back in the day. PS5 version of Ghost of Sushima Director's Cut means dynamic 4K resolution targeting 60 frames per second. DualSense Wireless Controller, Haptic feedback, and abdactive trigger resistance, 3D audio with stereo headphones,

lip sync for Japanese voiceovers, the ability to transfer your PS4, save progress over to PS5. And then, of course, the upgrade if you're playing on PS4 or just want to upgrade your PS4 copies, $20. Then if you want to go that extra mile for the PS5 bells and whistles, I just talked about $10. Got all that out. Got it all said. Lucy, somebody who hasn't played it, what is your first question? As a big fan, now there's more content for it. They're just a new version of it.

I mean, let's start with PS5 upgrades. I want to know about haptic feedback. if that feels good, how it looks, how it runs. Because I know that was a patch when PS5 just came out, which is kind of like a more of an optimization patch to make it. Was that 60, it was that the 60 frames? Yeah, I was doing 60 frames a second. It was running better.

It was looking better or whatever. But yeah, this is the one that's optimized. It's built for the PS5. I almost tweeted or I didn't tweet it almost. I thought about it since we're under embargo. But it is that moment of after all the shit I talked about every example being like, you draw back your bow, you'll feel it in the triggers. And I was like so sick of hearing that.

It does feel fucking awesome in this game. I love it. I love it so much. That's, those are some of the first things I noticed upon booting up the game. One, just how good this game looks. And this game has always looked good. I think the ghost is Tsushima. We don't talk about the art direction and art style enough.

We talk all about the graphics and how beautiful open world looks. But that is enhanced so much by how good the art direction is. We talk about the trees. we talk about the flora, we talk about just the amount of colors that they throw on screen. And I think that also is enhanced when we get to Iki Island because Ike Island is somewhat similar as the main island of Tsushima. But I think there are some things here and there that really separate it in terms of the actual colors and vibrancy you're getting on the Iki Island that feels unique from

Tsushima proper. But yeah, the dual sense stuff was also stuff that stuck out to me because things as simple as getting on your horse and the gallops. And when each of your horse's feet hit the ground or hooves hit the ground, you feel that in the controller, right? And the rhythm of it comes through the controller to you when you get the gallop, gallop, gallop. Like if you feel it and it feels really cool. But then, yeah, the bow and arrow stuff as well. Like it's the tired example we always give.

And I think we always give it in relation to Horizon Zero Dawn or Horizon Freewood and West, the next Horizon game. But Goschisma really does. It might be the first, first party PlayStation game that really is the. the, no, you're using a bow and arrow all the time in this game. And this game really does show off what that, what that's like in a, uh, in the dual sense. And so I love that stuff so much as well. Well, Mike, you of course are on the record as being a crazy person and making fun of the dual sense all the time. I believe you said it's a terrible controller.

Oh, Lucy James. I love to dunk on the dual sense. A lot of people know that about me. I've said a lot of bad things about it. But I'm actually going to piggyback off a blessing in Greg here. I'm going to say some really positive stuff about that because blessing, touched on the look, right? And I want to touch on the music, the sounds,

and how that ties in to the rumble of the controller. And I think that added so much to the gameplay for me and the experience, the immersion. I was blown away sometimes of watching this beautiful cut scene and hearing different sounds and that reflecting into the rumble of the controller and just kind of getting lost in it to the point where I said, wow, this is a really cool experience.

I'm loving this. I will say counter to those guys, I did not notice anything on the adaptive triggers, I think they call that right, with the Bowen Era. I did not feel any difference in that. I felt it more with Man Eater when I battled that trigger trying to jump on small seals and marine life. But in this one, I didn't really feel that I felt more of the rumble. That was more impactful to me and how they tied that in to the music and the moments. And that was really something special there to feed off of.

Sorry, I was going to say, I will say a place where I felt it in terms of the adaptive triggers even more so than the bow and arrow where I don't know if this is a new thing for Ike Island or if I just didn't think about it while doing it in the main game but there are instances where you are using a grappling hook to bring down structures and so you'll press L2 to attach your hook and then I think R2 to it's R2 to grab it L2 to pull it L2 to pull it and the way that that it might have been in the original game it might feel new because of the adaptive triggers I can't tell but it was in the original but I could be wrong but I remember when I did it the first time in this game I screwed it up and I'm like

I've screwed this up before. Okay, yeah. When you hook it in in this one, there is like a little like, like let go in the in the R2 that I noticed that doesn't, you know, change the mechanic. It doesn't grant anything super crazy, but does add that little bit of texture to the feel of the action you're doing that I took notice of it and I was like, damn, that's really cool. And it's in that stuff where even more so the adapter trigger stuff stood out, even more so than just the bow and arrows alone. So, Luce, you're saying how you platinum it. And I know how much you enjoyed it then. I know how much I enjoyed it then.

I know how much blessing enjoyed it. And we'll get to Legends, which is a different conversation later. And I'm sure we're to talk about that for weeks, if not months now, and P.S. I love you. But for Mike,

talk to me about it. You didn't play this at launch. So this is your first experience into it. Were the 11 hours a chore or were you immediately locked in? You know, I think, Greg, I had the moments that any gamer does where you feel that frustration probably at about hour three or four of, man, am I doing the same repetition, the same things of go here, go take over that outpost. Oh man, you're lost on the map. Go click on the wind and follow that.

And there are some moments there, but I got to say, I think from the story and how it felt a little more intimate as opposed to like an Assassin's Creed, a game that I've been playing since 2007, right? I'm kind of burnt out on that franchise. And I was looking for something different. And I'm surprised that this game really captured me. And I think it comes down to the story and the characters, right? It feels right from the jump, something different, something new to me. And it felt really gritty and intense, right? As you start off on that invasion on the beach, and then all of a sudden, the whole

island is in ruin. And it's now up to me to go figure out what's next, right? And I felt that from the graphics like Lessing brought up to the controls and the music was something that captured me the whole entire time. And it was really wild. I haven't been this captured. game in a long, long time on a single player open world RPG type game. And right off the jump, I was like, oh, man, am I really going to go from point A to point B? Do I have to be on the horse again?

I have horror stories from Roach to Red Dead Redemption 2. I can't do this again, right? And all of a sudden, I got to pick my horse. I named it right. And I started to build this connection. And then this beautiful world just captured me. And all of a sudden, five hours went by, 10 hours went by. And I didn't want to stop. And it was so cool to see the different areas and to feel like I was in different spots. And when you go to Eiki Island, which we'll talk about in a little bit, felt totally different from what I experienced in act number one, right? And then as well, man, the duels were so cool, right? I didn't see the duels coming until, oh, it's time, right? And all of a sudden, yeah, well, we'll talk about that. That's the showdown, right? The showdown,

I don't know. I can give or take the showdown. Oh, get out of here, Mike. Because I thought, from what I saw way back in the day was if I showed you down and I killed you, all the people ran away and I like won, right? That doesn't turn out to be, I just keep fighting people. So it's almost pointless to me. For the record, as you power and level up, it will get there.

Where you can't have the thing where you can't terrify other people so you go through and yeah, you mall them with like ghost mode or whatever and they'll drop and scatter and run. It's as, the idea is as your legend builds, they know, oh my God, this is the ghost of Susha might be terrified. This is the guy. But what I mean is the cool. The cool. The cool.

duels where you fight one on one and you're in that cool battle arena circle and you can feel it right and it starts off from the training mode right as gin is training with his uncle and there's that beautiful scene of all the red leaves around you and you're kicking them up as you go through and I don't want to I'll tease for the Iki island stuff but like that's a beautiful duel right and then there's one where I'm fighting the straw hats in act number two and I thought me and the straw hats were going to be cool Lucy James we're not cool anymore right and I really liked that and I don't know something captured me about this game where the 11 hours flew by and now I want more which is really hard for me to say because I never play single player games I kind of lost on that so I want more and you know blessing this is for you and all

the anime lovers out there this is the type of game I play this and I'm like man I wish they would turn this in to samurai shampoo right not the super over the top anime look but give me this story Give me the Rizza on the soundtrack. Give me those characters. And man, oh man, would I have some fun? But yeah, Greg, I'm blown away from my first experience. I'm really glad that I tried it. And I dove into it.

I had a blast. When I started it up, I had that, and stick with me, because this will sound more negative than I imply it to be, negative to Horizon. I had that moment of like, oh, no, is this going to be like when Horizon dropped their DLC? Because my memory of Horizon's DLC was, we've been waiting, we'd been waiting, got it, came home, started it, and guess what?

It's just added on quests and stuff. And it was very much like, cool, do you remember how to play? We don't fucking care. You're going to get kicked around. You're going to feel like, you know, oh, man, all the systems, they weren't natural to me. And I remember it taking me a while to get back up to speed with it. And so when I started, Sushima immediately ran to Iki Island. I knew we were on a deadline.

And he wanted to get through that and be able to talk specifically about the new stuff. and so ran in there immediately got whooped on, which turned out to be part of the story, but I didn't know. And so I got knocked down immediately and texted Goldfarb, of course, you know, kind of funny friend and family at this point, but you know,

former podcast beyond co-host or now over at sucker Sucker Punch, I'm like, oh man, I just got my head kicked in. He's like, it's going to all come back to you. It's all going to come back to you. Don't worry about it. And I was shocked that by an hour in, it had all come back to me. And it was second nature of, you know,

following the win, touchpad, jumping on my horse. Mainly though, getting back into battle. I was so afraid of coming back in and having the standoffs that I was just going to get destroyed every time. Coming back in that I wouldn't remember how to assassinate well, all these different things to where I would feel like, you know, Rocky at Rocky 4 or whatever or something, trying to get in the shape having to have a montage. And it happens so quickly. And I think the story of Ike Island is so interesting and leads you into it so well. I'm so surprised here as we review it how fond I am of it. And I think, and how much fun I had with it.

And to compare it again to Horizon's DLC, I struggle right now to tell you what Horizon's DLC was about, right? Like I remember it was cold. It was frozen, like, you know what I mean? I think that. Yeah, it was Frozen Wilds and it was this, that. But I don't remember connecting the characters. I don't remember what the narrative was or what the extension was.

Whereas again, to Mike's point of how grounded and boots on the ground we are with gin, like I think his story resonates so well. And so jumping in here, and the new cast of kids, characters, the Eagle, your new, you know, your new Mongol leader enemy, and the stuff Jin's wrestling with, which again, we won't spoil, don't worry. I think it's so well done that I feel like, I guess what's bizarre is that I finished Ghost of Sushima. I had platinum ghost of Sushima. And I remember being on the show as being like, man, I want more. Like, I wish there was just more to do. Now you jump here and I finish the Eagle storyline. And I thought when I did it,

because obviously this is all happening once in real time, right? I beat it. And then Wakanda drop for Avengers that day. And I was like, I'm going to come back from lunch and I'm going to go right to Wakanda. Instead, I was like, well, I got to do the games cast. So I might as well keep doing question marks. I might as well keep spending time. And now I'm here talking to you all about it. And tonight, it's like, well, I do, I want to level up Black Panther, but I really want to go clear out all this stuff. Why are you turning into Fran? Yeah. Games is a service. Barrett got to be a part of it. But like this is the thing that not only satiated me in terms of the moment, but I'm still so hungry for what they did because what they have here is so good. You know,

the tweet I sent Barrett for this games cast when I wanted to go upright is a ghost of Sushaumah director's cut is a wonderful reminder of how special this game is. And that was the thing is I played through this like just cutting people down and scaling things around and following the birds and seeing all the new shrines and stuff.

Like it is such a gorgeous fun to play game. Blessing Eddie of you, Jr. Yeah, I 1,000% agree with you. Like coming back into it, I had the exact same experience where I, it's been what months and months and months since I've actually touched this game and getting into combat, it's that thing where I've played action games between this game and the last game.

I think I've probably played a game where I've ridden a horse probably since I've played this game last. And so trying to get into the flow of it, I was like, oh, yeah, okay, how do I do this? How do I do that? I think the thing that was the most difficult was actually figuring out combat because, man, I forgot how many combat mechanics it features that you have in this game, right? You not only have bows and arrows and different kinds of bows and different kinds of arrows, or different kinds of bows and different kinds of arrows. But then you also have your different throwable items

from the Koonai to the sticky bombs and all the stuff that you unlock there. And you also have the stances. Like getting back into the flow of all of that was a thing that took me quite a few battles to get into. And I got into that same exact place where I am fighting against Mongols and I'm like, man, I'm getting my ass handed to me. And I die and I'm like, what the fuck, man?

Why is this so hard? And then you realize that, oh, shit, no, you're supposed to die here because that then leads into the next thing. And from then on, the, the eke island DLC from then on I thought was just a fun a fun like ease back into the game

in a way that I wasn't expecting it to be because Ghost of Shima, especially when I compare it to so many other open world games, I would say it's such an easy open world to get into. Like mechanically it's not doing anything too crazy outside of the combat

giving you a lot to deal with. The world for me, the thing that I love so much about it is one, how beautiful it looks and how kind of serene it is and how relaxing it is to just explore and ride through. That alongside the fact that it is very straightforward, you know, you have your, forget the exact words for them,

but like the fox shrines or the fox dens, I think that's what they're actually called. They can discover and they're, you know, you might come across a bird that'll fly you there, or you might come across a rabbit or some shit that'll guide you to a random discoverable thing. That stuff I forgot all about. But then also just the ways in which this open world feels like

It's learned from games like The Witcher or Breath of the Wild very much is about the discovery aspect of it. That's something that I've missed so much. And it's so easy in like how it allows to discover that stuff. I had so much fun with that. And, you know, the one thing that surprised me from this DLC was how short the main Iki Island campaign is. And, you know, we've had our discussions talking about what our predictions were

for what the DLC was going to be, how long the DLC was going to be. You know, I think there are rumors here and there of like, oh, it might be 15 hours, but we really didn't have much to go on, aside from the PlayStation blog's write-ups of what the premises of the DLC. And by the time I finished the three-hour mainline campaign, I was like, oh, shit, that was quick. But once I finished that, looked at the map and looked at how much was left in terms of just the peer exploration.

And that actually got me really excited because I realized that, you know, the DLC campaign, the, I think they call it the Tales of Ike or Tales from Eerie. A tale of I. Yeah. It's Hila Viki. That I think was for the most part fine to good. Like I didn't fall in love with that story. I did like meeting the characters. But there was nothing there that I felt like wasn't in the main campaign or at least stood out as much from anything that was in the main campaign. But the island of Viki exploring it, doing some of the new activities they have there

and just like hanging out and having fun, I thought was way more of an enticing prospect than like actually doing the main campaign of Viki. See what I think is interesting about it is I do think that the main campaign stood out here and not head and shoulders above it, right? Let me bring in a question here. Over here, Connor says, hello there, games cast crew. How does the original, and he wrote into patreon.com slash kind of funny games just like you could. How does the story in E.K. Island expansion compared to the story in the main game? With it being shorter, do you feel like you're missing out or does the length work in its favor?

Thanks for the insight. What I appreciate about this again is I sit here and talk about how special ghost of Susham is. And I think, you know, 2020, a banger year for games, right? How it did get overlooked a lot of times where it was this thing, but last was part two was there, right? So I kind of stole all the PlayStation Thunder on so many levels. To sit there and play this to be like, oh, yeah, I forgot how good this was and how great it looks and how much fun it was. And then also the fact that I sit there and close my eyes and I'm like, oh, like I'm talking about how I don't remember Horizon's DLC, right? And even when we talked about Horizon before, like the intricacies of what that was going on.

I'm like, oh, I start getting hazy. Like I remember it, but I'm not going to say anything now. I remember it, but not like names. But to sit here and be like, oh, yeah, ghosts, and be like, oh, man, and like, Jin and his uncle. Oh, yeah, and then the Mongol leader and then the battle to chase, you know, chasing him across the bridge. And I remember all of that so well. I remember that final duel so well.

To then jump in here, I was like, all right, cool, how are they going to set this quest line up and make it different and interesting, I guess, and not feel like more of the same? Because this is that. It's more of the same. If you had a, if you didn't like Ghost's combat, well, I guess now they have, lock on, which I didn't bother. I didn't use. I couldn't even figure out how to put it on. I didn't see it at all. I didn't see it. Yeah, it's over in the options for sure. I've seen it when I was looking for something else in there. Uh, yeah, controls and then what? I have an open over here,

but you're right now. I don't find it. Yeah, like I look through controls and I couldn't find it. So I don't know if maybe it's an update thing or maybe I'm just. Gameplay. Target lock. There it is. It's in gameplay. Gotcha. No, no. Yeah. Gameplay target lock. Press up to toggle. When active use art to switch targets. And then there's a, oh, swap on defeat when current target is defeated you will lock onto the next available target didn't do it didn't use it i i was not somebody who had a problem with the targeting before i kind of liked that free flow of whoever's in front of me i'm going to be able to attack or whatever anyways though uh how do you make this story not just feel like whatever that it's you know a offshoot as something side because there were

those side quests right there were the tales of uh sashima in the other one like i think the eagle is an interesting enough character and again i go back and forth on this because i don't want to ruin anything for anybody playing it. I guess it's not that. The Eagle does something in the beginning when you meet her that then makes it different. That island feels different in a way that the main island of Sushima doesn't. And I like that. It did shake it up of like, okay, cool. Like obviously these are the same mechanics, but what's going on exactly? What can I trust as I play through is a different kind of thing. I like that. That is something I actually didn't like. Yeah, because basically, I feel like in so many big AAA games, that is a trope.

Like the way that I don't know. It's hard to talk about without talking. I mean, we can, honestly, I don't really, I feel like we can say this because it's literally, you're going to start the game,

you're going to get a cut scene and this starts. So it's not like the Ike stuff starts. Yeah. Lucy, do you care? No, you don't care if we tell you. I mean, if it's the cut scene,

like, cool. Yeah, because we're not giving you a story thing. So anyway, if you want to tune out, this is your chance to tune out for like, you know,

a minute probably while we give this portion of it, and then we'll try not to come back to it. But, she poisons you as she poisons gin so you have this very very similar to batman arkum asylum scarecrow stuff where like she's in your head but it's really your darkest thoughts talking and so like you know then you'll be running sometimes and it'll all turn purple and there's new things but you didn't like that bus i didn't like it because i i feel like i've seen this so many times before like you shout out scarecrow right and i feel like there's so many other open world games there's so many triple a action games that i can

point to you that have the same mechanic of as you're going you know you get visions or everything changes and no now you're fighting somebody who's is are they there are they not there it felt like it had been done before and the the one thing I did like about it was what it added visually because one of the things talking about this game leading up to it was was one of the things I would bring up would be about how yeah I want to see them visually push this game in a way that uh ghost stream of legends visually looked way different from ghost to a proper. I wanted Iki Island to do a similar thing. And I think this was N Avenue through which they could do that. But I think in action, in style, it worked in action, I don't think it didn't,

it didn't work as well for me. Just because it just felt like an easy way to go about trying to make this game, make this DLC feel fresh and different that just didn't feel like a new use of that same mechanic. That's fair. I can see that. Mike, did you have an opinion of it since you played Yeah, that's interesting because I was coming hot off of playing act number one, right? And this is my first experience. And it did feel totally different, right? It felt mystical. It felt magical.

And that was something, if you remember act number one and into act number two, you don't really get that vibe right off the bat, right? When the main story plays out, you're doing it. And it's pretty straightforward. But I felt like when I got introduced to the eagle, I was like, oh, here's like this mystical different vibe that I haven't seen in act number one. I'm kind of interested in this. I like the idea where it's going,

I totally understand where blessings coming from of like, hey, we've seen this, we've been there, done that, right? Sure. But in all honestly, like, coming hot off act number one into that, I was like, oh, cool, like we're going to take a different approach to this game

that I have not seen yet and what I just played for the past, you know, nine hours, let's do it. And I really enjoyed that. I thought it was cool. Luce, what are the questions do you have? Commoner, who doesn't have a copy? The commoner, God.

Well, I mean, I don't even have my PlayStation here. If I did. That's the lie that I'm telling myself to make me feel okay. That's softening the blow. I guess just how does it fit into the game sort of structure-wise? Is it the kind of thing where you just get the missions and you can leave them if you want to and piss about somewhere else? Or when you get to Iki Island, you lock there until you finish that. Mike, you're just into act two, so I'm guessing it's not an end game thing at all.

It's just kind of there in act two that you can go and do. Yeah, right, Mike? Yeah, I mean, I can answer the beginning part or the second half of that is, yeah, it kicks off the moment you get into act number two. So once you arrive in act number two, you jump on your horse. You probably ride off into the distance for about three minutes. And then it will snap on in the menu and you can click on it and go start off that mission.

It does take you to, of course, Iki Island, a totally separate piece of it. But I never tried to venture off of the island wall. playing that. So I can't tell you if you're locked into it. It kind of felt like I was, but that was also my mind of like, I'm on an island and I'm here to do this. So I didn't. Yeah, I wasn't really planning on leaving, but it is

nice to know once you complete it, you can go back, right? And I assume that you can go back. It's like Blessing said, when you beat this golden storyline, there's going to be a lot going on. That island is big. And it seems like it has a lot more to go explore and have some fun. And so I have to assume I should be able to jump back and forth.

where I at in the main story. I don't remember. I never tried it either because we were golden pathing. I never did. I think you can. I want to say at some point I mentioned that, but I'm not sure. I've hit up another one of the reviewers.

I know they couldn't make this show to see if they know if they tried it. See, I don't want to spoil anything loose. You know what I mean? Because like there's some vibes out there. I'm like, I don't know. You know what I want to say? I don't know on that if you can go back.

That's all. I'll tease you with that. That in itself is a great answer. Can I ask you? how it was for you in terms of difficulty, because I'm sure me and Greg are both jumping into the DLC after we completed the game and leveled up all the way. Did you struggle going into it right after Act 1?

Absolutely slapped around, everybody. Just so you know, if you come hot off of Act number one, you were going to get your teeth kicked in. I mean, kicked in. I just, I kept battling and battling and battling, and it got to the point where the game was asking, do you want to kick it down to easy? And it became the game of,

I had to kite out a lot of enemies. I had to sit there and be real, slow and methodical on a lot of things. So, yeah, I would not encourage people to do what I just did where you just mainline this and you get to this and jump right in because it's going to be punishing. You can do it. And I can tell you from experience, it was very difficult and it hurt a lot. So I would slow it down and enjoy the roses while you're there and level up a little bit more.

That was, yeah, one of the things I was wondering to see because coming in, you know, end game, I've platinumed. I have all my things. I'm out there. And when you go, they're like, hey, Ike's going to be tough. Are you sure you are you sure you want to come over here and do it or whatever? When I went, does it warn you at the time you can't come back?

No, I'm really wondering. It does give you a warning and I, the implication I got was that you wouldn't be able to come back until you beat the story over Eniki. That makes sense. The way the story plays out, it makes sense you wouldn't believe. It wasn't a stern warning though, so I'm not positive. Anyways, though, when you're going out,

I lost the train of thought, Oreo was talking about? How difficult is it? I'm still hung out. Yeah, okay. When it said that, I was like, okay, cool. And I got in there. And then what I find is cool, Luce, you know, like I've forgotten about this mechanic when you're going, you know, and you're facing off against people, you switch your stance to match their stance or whatever. Yeah, I forgot about that until Mike, you mentioned it earlier.

And I was like, oh, God. Yeah. The people over on Iki Island, they can switch to. So you'll be fighting and they'll have the spear and then they'll put it away and they'll bring out the sword and you have to switch on the fly too as you fight as you fight just one person let alone, you know, this giant arsenal of people. But as I was doing it and getting back in the swing of it and learning how to play, I was like, using my bombs and my knives. And I was like, I never did this the first time around. I remember always having those

things maxed out in maybe like in a pinch or a giant fight I would remember. Oh, wait, I have like, you know, batterangs. And this is where I'm like, oh, I am definitely out of shape, but the game has done such a great job of me bringing in this superpower Jin Sakai that I'm not feeling like I'm totally out of shape.

I will say, I will say, I do like this lock on. I've been fighting in this Mongol territory and I am digging this lock on. The only thing is that the lock on is mapped to up on the Dpad. And that is kind of annoying. It should be R3, but R3 is already mapped to crouch. And so they probably just had to figure out a solution. But yeah, up on the D pad is not great for the lock on.

There's a couple things like that, right, where it's like I'd forgotten too. And I'm sure in the moment it didn't matter because you learn from scratch. But here of like, all right, cool, I want to open the map. And I'd hit the touchpad and then he bow. I'm like, oh, God, right. It's not on the touchpad. It's over here on option. I forgot how to get it.

Yeah. And like swiping up on the touchpad. to do like the wind thing where you can track your objective. That was the thing I forgot totally about. And I always love that mechanic, but I kept forgetting that it was up on the touch pad because no other game does that. Yeah. I was swiping up all day.

It was just nonstop. It was like me on Tinder. Just swiping all day. Are you paid for that thing, Mike? You don't get unlimited of those. But, you know, I want to highlight the combat, right? I thought that was really, really special of how fast and fluid it did feel to switch the stances, right?

and seeing the enemy types do that in Ike Island. And also a big shout of, this game actually makes it feel like the AIs that you're fighting next to do something. And I think that was something special that stood out to me. It's like every time we got in a team fight with straw hats back in Act 1 to Ike Island and what was going on over there, it always felt like, man, this is cool. People are running up and we're having these big battles.

And they feel like they're actually doing something, right? Instead of just that I'm kind of here. I'm just going to be disposable. They're like, oh, okay, good. You're taking on your person, hold them down for a little bit, and then maybe we'll team fight them, or maybe you'll kill them, maybe you'll die. But it felt really cool to see this kind of, like, army feel, right?

Of other people were around me. I really loved that. And I don't think many other games truly capture that so well like this team did. I think they did an outstanding job with that. And another thing I want to pat him on the, please. Oh, God. No, no, please, loose you go. I was going to say, like, you mentioned earlier,

like it felt like it took the best parts of Assassin's Creed. And I think in the biggest scale battle, especially when you see more of those in Assassin's Creed, it feels like they've taken bits from open world games, like Assassins, like Shadow of War, Shadow of Mordor. And they've just, it's like an exercise in restraint. And that's one of the things I really, really loved about Ghost when I first played it, where it's like the map had loads of interesting things to go and find and do and collect and whatever. But it was manageable. The quest list, totally manageable.

Trophies, manageable. Like, even the HUD, the amount. of gameplay as catch-all as that term is, but it's like everything that it gave you was enough and it kept growing and you kept changing and like growing as a character and stuff, but it's like, it all felt restraint. And I think in like modern AAA stuff where you have your Assassin's Creed's where they just throw literally everything in that game to try and hook you like one more, one more checkpoint, one more tower to climb, right? I was really impressed with the way the ghost just rained it in.

Oh, Lucy, really quick. The checkpoint system and dying, how fast you turned around on this PS5, I was so impressed by that. The low time, you died and it was also a brutal, awesome death animation. So shout out to that for dying. But how it kicked back on, I was really pleased with. And yeah, you're so right. Like I said at the beginning, geez, I've been playing Assassin's Creed since 2007.

I am burnt out on these giant open world games. I've gotten to the point where I don't play them anymore. And I think that goes to like what you just said. And when I said with the story feeling a little more grounded and intimate, it felt like, oh, man, this isn't this giant thing that I've got to know everything about. We're going to go see these non-throwaway characters. Everything felt like it was purposely put there and was there to really continue to progress an awesome story. And that's what I love so much about it.

And I think what captured me to kept playing so long in that, you know, time frame that I did. I will also say that Iki Allen has me super excited for whatever goes to Seema 2 ends up being like playing through Iki Island and seeing how much they added from Greg mentioning characters that will switch stances to new characters that they introduced that are that feel core to the story but the way in which they developed those and brought them into related them into Jin's own story that was super well done and had me had me craving more and then just like other things like additional things to do in the open world additional things to discover the

the look of it. So much, so much stuff here feels like it's teasing a, man, we're going to go for in Ghost Shima too. Like we have, we have ideas. Like, we know ways in which we can build on this foundation. And so, you know, I really like Ike Island for that as well. Yeah, that was one of the things, you know, one of my criticisms of Platinumi, Ghost, the original, was the idea of like, I love doing it. I think it's a great trophy of this and I wanted more in that game. But when I was on to, all right, cool, it's the ninth own Zen. I'm trying to find, right? is that how I say, Osin, Ozen. You know, the 42nd fox den or whatever, I was like, oh, right, like, I know what this is.

They break it up, I think, better here. Now, granted, it's a smaller area, but right, even for, like, the dens for foxes have been replaced with, like, what, cats and dears and something else. Yeah, there's no, monkeys, right? And it's like, okay, cool, there's, like three of each of those. So that makes a total of nine, so there's enough to go over there and do, but it isn't, like, going over that hill, what's another, it's another, you know, fox. It's another, you know, fox. No, it is a cat. It is this.

It is that. I felt like the bird, following the birds to whatever thing I was going to, weren't as far out as before. Whereas in Ghost of Susham, I really felt like I was really trucking after some stuff for a while. This one seemed quicker about it. And I appreciate, again, no spoilers. And I don't know if anybody else's, how many you, did you, I know, blessing, you've just started in on the open world stuff of, yeah, right? Mike, did you do a lot of it or just some of it or none of it? No, some of it.

Very little of it. There's so much going on that I was still trying to wrap my head around. This is going to sound very empty, but like there are question marks on the map that are shrines that are Easter eggs. Did you start running into those? Nope. Those are cool. And I'm excited for everybody to get the game and start finding those.

And I'll leave it at that. But like they've done a lot of making exploration in this game. I mean, it already was super fun, right? But it was also, all right, cool, I know what I'm going to get. And the fact that I'm still here and it's still like, oh, I don't know what I'm going to get. And especially those Easter eggs, I don't know what I'm going to run into when I find.

one of those, what it's actually going to be. It's pretty neat. So, I have a question here from drippy drapes, disgusting, on patreon.com slash kind of funny games, who writes in and says, as a big fan of Ghost of Sushima are the PS5 upgrades enough to make you want to replay the game? Blessing.

No, but I am planning to play a lot of legends. I think for me that is where I get my Ghost Hashima fix. When I just want to get in and just experience the game, Legends is the perfect thing for me because, one, I just love the game. or Luke grind and then also gives me a chance to hang out with friends and then also bring friends who are new to Legends through the game. And for me, that's my, that's, that's, that's kind of my

excuse to get in there and experience this PS5 version. But if you're not into Legends and you really, really dig the grind of Goschoshima, I think it will be, it would be a good excuse for you or whoever who just wants to get back into the game because again, upon booting this thing up for the first time, I was like, God damn, this game looks so good. It is incredible how, you know, I mentioned the art direction before. But yeah, graphically as well. you know, 4K, 60 FPS, it looks so crisp and so good. And so I would say if you are curious on jumping back into the game or replaying the game for those reasons,

then I think those reasons are there for you. Like, you will have a good time. Building on top of that for someone who... Well, I wanted to double down on that, though. Okay, sorry, and I want to come to you. Because my answer for this is I'm very similar to Blessing, where no, I'm not a game replayer, especially a game I've platinum, right? So the fact that, like, you know, the platinum, it's an instant pop, you know,

And also shout out to them for making saves so easy, right? We were doing Avengers today. And I was like, oh, just get it. And Mike's like, well, I don't have my safe. I'm like, oh, right, you do have to upload from PS4 to do the thing. Whereas this one, if it's in the cloud or whatever, it's already done, you just pull it down and you're all set to go. And so getting in there is the Instaplat. But then when I went into the trophies and that there is a new game plus trophy for beating it again.

I was like, oh, well, I'm not going to 100% this one again. Like, I'm not to worry about that. But it was the idea of having personally played through platinum ghosts, then falling off. Then when Legends came, it had been enough time where I wasn't like super like, oh man, ghost, jump back in, played a bit of Legends, but fell off of it and come back. Now I'm primed. Like, I'm ready to finish these trophies and start working on legend stuff with you bless. Like go back and get the trophies and go to the raid, which I never made it to and all that jazz.

Like, I am stoked to play more. So the PS5 upgrades are there, let alone the fact that I am usually when we get these things, the 60 frames per second guy, like give me the, you know, best performance, right, over a resolution. This one I started in resolution by default and I never, I couldn't leave. I tried at one point to leave and I turn it back to resolution. I'm like, this is just gorgeous. I might turn it back. It was gorgeous. Because I had that thing when I first booted it up. It started in resolution. I was like, damn, this looks good. And I switched it to performance because that's what I always do. Yeah. And part of me was like, should I switch this back? But another part of me was like, no, I fight the

good performance for every single game. But hearing that you like it better, I might switch it back for the time being just to see if it grows on me because it did look really good when I started off. I mean, the game always looked beautiful, but like, it's so goddamn beautiful this time around as you run and his, you know, Jin's capable blow and you're running through the fields and, oh, I'm so good. And I'm sorry. What was your follow up to that question before? Yeah, to build off of the, the viewer question from Drippy Drapes is for someone who wasn't as enamored by the original release of Ghost of Shishima as really the rest of this crew here, do you think this director's cut is something? worth people trying because yeah I I thought goes to Sushima was like it was cool it was all right it just wasn't hitting me at the time really sure there were things like the lack of a lock on that was really my my brain just couldn't figure out how to like vibe with what the the controls

for the original fights were and stuff like that um with y'all talking about like how like the Iki Island expansion is like you're getting more of what the base game was but uh not something as lackluster is maybe the Horizon um DLC from a couple years ago yeah like what do y'all's thoughts on this because like it's one of those things where like I might want to get my toes back in but like I also feel like I'm having a million games thrown at me over the next month and I don't know like I don't know if like I want to dedicate that time so I'm just I'm really interested I'd say no. If you didn't like Oscema the first time around,

this is the same game with quality of life improvements, but all in all, nothing here is life-changing. They're not changing the flow of the game. They do add the lock-on. And if that was your breaking point, then maybe jump in and see if the lock-on fixes that for you. But even with playing through the lock-on right now, the lock-on seems like it works pretty well,

but it being up on the D-Pad is already like, I don't know if I'm going to use this lock-on if it's up on the D-Pad every time to activate it and turn it off because I don't want my lock-on on all the time. And so, you know, that's, that's a thing. That said, you know, I don't, it depends on the reasons you didn't like the first, the game the first time around, but I can't imagine anything here being the game changer in terms of making this a new experience. Gotcha. I might, I might try, like, you know, the opening hours again and see how it vibes, see if it clicks this time around.

Yeah, I'm right there with Buss. I think that's the right answer. Whereas I think if you didn't like ghost this is more of ghost which i love and i'm so excited to get and i can't wait to play legends and try the new stuff out but yeah i think it's fantastic seems like everybody does too yeah i i i loved it i'm impressed with the 4k targeting 60 especially over on the xbox side we always talk about optimization over on that side and you know me gary and paris were kind of snobs if it's not optimized to kind of give it the face right and it's fun to now kind of take a look at the landscape of the differences, right, of the optimization patches over on Xbox with Microsoft and now what we're seeing with these director cuts, right, and what this is going to look like? And does that draw you in

as opposed to a free optimization patch of an older game? Does that make you get over here and play it? Does the word directors cut with essentially the optimization, maybe add-ons, draw you in, right? And I think that would be a fun gamescast topic you guys should talk about later on. Because there's a lot of moments where a lot of Xbox games get optimized and I don't want to go back and replay them or try them if I never have. And I wonder if the director's cut draws me in to maybe say, you know what? Maybe I will try that over something like this.

So it's a fun conversation. We'll see what happens Friday when everybody can pick up Ghost of Tsushima, Director's Cut. It gets our seal of approval. But remember, of course, a game provided by PlayStation, they sent the game for review. Don't attack us. FTC.

You don't, you know, pack off. All right. Don't worry about it. We still have to review 12 minutes, ladies and gentlemen. But before then, how about we take a little bit of an intermission? First, we're going to tell you about who our sponsors are, and then we're going to have Jay Lynn on from the Games and Online Harassment Hotline to talk about the Hotlines one-year anniversary.

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Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash kind of funny. That's EXPR-E-S-V-P-N.com slash kind of funny. And you can get an extra three months free at expressvPN.com slash kind of funny. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the Gamescast, Programs Manager for the Games and Online Harassment Hotline. Jaylin. Hello, Jay. Hi, thanks so much for having me. I mean, thanks so much for coming through. And congratulations on one year of the Games and Online Hattel.

harassment hotline. How's it feel? Thank you so much. Yeah, it's it's been quite a year, right? I'm sure we'll talk about it more, but launching in August 2020 was a moment for sure. And so we've definitely heard so many stories, talked to so many folks and really grown over this first year. So I'm really excited to talk about it with you today. And that's the thing, you know, I've known about it since its infancy. I, you know, I think actually I talked talk to Anita about it when her and Jen were on a Ubisoft panel back in March right before everything went to hell with COVID in 2020, right? And it was this thing that was coming. She was all excited about it and telling me about it. For people who don't know what is the

games and online harassment hotline. Yeah. So the games and online harassment hotline is a free, confidential text message-based emotional support hotline for anyone who makes or plays games. And that's fantastic, right? I think when I first got pitch, I was like, oh, for developers. And everybody was like, no, no, no, it's for everyone. It's anybody in the gaming community, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I mean, I think that was some of our worry when we first launched was that we have a very literal name, right?

Games and online harassment hotline. And we were worried that folks would think that in order to text us, it has to be something about games or something about online harassment when really the intention behind all of it was to just provide that culturally specific space for folks in the game's spaces. So both in the industry, in like gaming communities and everything in between, right, content creators, community moderators, all of that. And we know that, of course, online harassment does kind of show up in its own unique flavor in these spaces.

But there are also so many other things that gamers, developers, folks in the community, go through and so you know we we've really been validated with the really wide kind of range of topics and stories that folks have been calling or texting in about um you know really anything from mental health to workplace burnout uh to in-game harassment to more general online harassment um and and that's been really really validating because that's really what we want to be we want to be this emotional support resource that provides that kind of culturally specific specific context so folks don't have to explain themselves and just be here for anyone no matter what they're going through. So it sounds like a silly question because obviously a harassment hotline,

it makes sense why it would be. The question I would, I think you kind of touched on there is why. Like were you noticing that other hotlines, other outlets weren't catering to gamers or gaming specific like problems? Yeah. So that's kind of a two-pronged answer for you. So kind of what you were just speaking on, we had heard from a lot of other like targets of online harassment and survivors of abuse in the industry, say things like when they try to reach out for help, when they try to call into other, you know, suicide prevention hotlines or seek help, even in therapy sometimes, when the person providing support didn't

have that context of the game industry. and also around kind of what it meant to be extremely online. I think the pandemic has shifted a lot of folks' experience around that, but especially pre-pendemic, I think there definitely still was a lot of, you know, of a barrier, a gate between folks understanding, like, oh, why can't you just a log off? Sure.

It's just a game. Why don't, you know, why don't you play a different game? or not really understanding that experience of being extremely online and how much online is real life. And so different little context, things like that, we found really were barriers to folks getting support. The other part of it is kind of just the timing around this. You know, online harassment and abuse and toxicity in game spaces

has been kind of mainstream knowledge for some. the past decade at least. Don't read the comments, right? All that stuff. I know, right. It's something that, you know, everyone, it's kind of a family secret. Like, everyone knows about it. But, you know, we don't also feel uncomfortable to talk about.

But in 2019, when that kind of first wave of Me Too hit the games industry, all those folks coming forward with their stories about different kind of experiences that they'd had, And that really felt like a moment, a shift in the conversation in our communities. And it felt like this was a special time. It was bringing up a lot of things for a lot of people and that people really needed support now. And, you know, folks, we've been watching this happen to people for so long without and kind of just having to go along without any support. And so we kind of created the resource that we wish that we had, you know,

the leadership at feminist frequency, including our executive director, Anita Sarkeesian, has had a long history in navigating these waters, in supporting folks through online harassment, and, you know, and other folks who have, like, experienced abuse and gone through that. So we're pulling on a deep kind of well of knowledge and experience around these things, And it felt like it just felt like this was this was something that folks were ready for. Folks were ready to talk about this and ready to kind of seek help and start shifting this culture. For sure. And I think that's why it's so powerful.

Right. I think, you know, there's always the what aboutisms, right? It's always been for so long that, oh, man, like if you're getting drug online and you're having a way on your emotional thing, it's always that thing or it used to be at least, right? Of like, well, yeah, shake it off. Or, yeah, that's bad. But it's not like you're being attacked in the street. not like this has happened to you in a physical sense, right? And like totally ignoring and invalidating the actual mental weight of that.

And I remember, you know, carrying that so heavily when I started writing at IGN in 2007 and the boards hated me. And it was like that thing where the seasoned, you know, people who had been there forever, like, oh, just don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.

It's not even worrying about it as much as this just sucks. I'm trying to do my job and everybody hates me. Like, why? What are you doing that? Are you, so I think for people who understand the concept of it, what's it like to do it? So, of course, you always talk about, you know, you text support to 23368, and then someone texts you back, someone calls you. Where's the process go from there?

Yeah. So you can text that you can text support to 23368 any time of day, any day of the week. And you kind of start off with like a really short kind of automated intake. It just asks what name you want to use and you can use whatever name. You can be as anonymous as you want. And then just a simple question of what's going on. We don't, because confidentiality is so important to us, we don't collect any kind of personal identifying information or demographic information, stuff like that. And then every day we get online from 3 to 7 p.m. Pacific time.

So that's when we text you back if you texted us outside of that time or if you text during that time, we'll just text back right away. And yeah, so during that time, you'll get connected to a live agent. So someone who's really there to talk with you in real time over text. Yeah, and then from there, you know, conversations can go however you want them to. We really let the person texting in, lead the conversation. You only share what you want to. And we're here to listen, make space, provide support. and, you know, help guide, like, I don't know, explore options for what might be helpful or connect

you to resources if that feels relevant to your situation. Sure. I think that's the biggest thing, right? Like, when you're lost at sea, in a sea of emotions and dealing with something, right, it is so helpful to get someone on the outside who has that mental clarity and isn't entrenched, isn't in the middle of the storm with you, isn't having to weather it. They can talk to you about, obviously, the resources that are. available, whether that be, obviously, professional help, whether it be a website,

whether it be, you know, something to that effect, or authorities, if that's what's needed, right? Right. And the reality of online harassment is that there just isn't a one-fix solution. You know, there isn't just a list of things that we can tell you to do to make things better. It really, because it's so layered, it's a, yes, it is about internet and technology, but it's also about relationships and community. It's about the way people make you feel.

It's about how we treat each other. It's about a lot of just underlying kind of things like identity, all of that can be tied into that harassment. And so because it's so layered, what we found is really helpful is actually just having a space to talk about it out loud, to be believed and not dismissed. And we really believe that. individuals have, like, you are the person who is most capable of making the best decision for yourself.

You know, we don't know what that solution is going to be for you, but we hear again and again people saying, you know, this, like, having this space really helped just like pull me out of a spiral. Or even just like texting this out and putting, getting it out of my brain really helps me articulate some things that I wasn't able to see before. or I just feel so much more comfortable moving forward now that I've just been able to talk about it. And so I think that human connection is really critical because so much of the experience of harassment can be like that kind of human social experience. 100%.

And I do another mental health show over on Cloud 9, and one of the things we talked to with the clinician and the psychologist over there was this idea of like, why you can wrestle with something and internalize something and, you know, lose sleep over something. But as soon as you talk it out to someone, it feels better immediately, right? And I think it goes back to your very specific and awesome mission, right, of like being in this space, not having to do the legwork of explaining what, why you're upset in a gaming landscape or what's been going on to be able to get in there and actually express what's happening to you. And like you just said, you know, type it all out and actually put it into word that you probably aren't putting into words the way you talk to yourself about it, right? But talking to somebody else about it. mean so much. Yeah, and especially because a lot of these situations, whether it's abuse in the workplace or like harassment and bullying or toxicity within a gaming community or online harassment in general, a lot of that can often be tied with, you know, other kind of axes of power or

escalation or even like we've heard so much about fears of retaliation for speaking out. And so we also really value that the game's hotline being this third party fully confidential unaffiliated space. None of the stuff that you tell us will ever reach your employer, your friends, your family, none of that. It really is this special space where we're in the community. We're community driven. And we have that understanding. But you can talk to us even if you don't feel like you're ready to.

to tell someone else your story or you're ready to report or you're ready to kind of speak more publicly about something that happened to you. And, you know, some people might never want to do that. And that's okay too. And we think there should be many different avenues for seeking support and telling your story and being believed.

For sure. So then talk to me a little bit about not obviously hard numbers, but what is this first year been like in terms of response? Like was it right out of the gate? you were immediately getting all these things or hasn't been a slow build? Is it only increased? Yeah.

It definitely, the traffic definitely comes in waves and varies depending on what's going on. A lot of it does respond to events or world, like things in the new world events or things in the news. Like, for example, election night in the States was a big one for us. There were a lot of folks. I texted many friends. that night to commissory and worry and be vulnerable. I totally understand that. Definitely.

So that's one example. I mean, another one is right now, we are busier than ever since the announcement of that Blizzard lawsuit. Sure. We are really seeing the lasting kind of ripple effects of folks texting in about stuff like that. And so, yeah,

it does kind of come in seasons and waves. And, of course, we do kind of have a baseline trickle of, folks talking about online harassment stuff, in-game harassment and community stuff, with just a general undercurrent of mental health. Again, we've been talking about harassment a lot, I know, but we also get a lot of texts from folks just telling us about, you know, struggles with depression or anxiety, a real, like, tension with abusive roommates.

Stuff like that, we also get, we get a decent number of, of conversations, just folks looking, looking for support around that, too. So in year one, right, what surprised you? Like, when you started this whole thing, like, did you expect you to go one way and not have stuff about, you know, we're talking about roommates and these other kind of dynamics or like, what stood out? Yeah. I mean, we've touched a little bit about how relational, uh, relational these, these situations are.

and how much harassment is not just mysterious strangers or boogeymen on the internet coming to get you. A lot of times it's a lot of times it's your friends. A lot of times it's your community members and stuff like that. So that was definitely something that shifted some of the ways that we thought about harassment and wanted to respond to it. The other thing that really, really surprised me was when folks who had caused harassment or had been accused of abuse in the games industry or who had been kicked out of a community space

for the way that they were treating people when they started texting us and asking us for emotional support and seeking emotional support with us. Yeah, that just wasn't something we anticipated. And so we took a moment, really looked at it, and thought about, well, what is our mission? And do we want to support these people?

And if so, how? And so we started from really grounding ourselves in an acknowledgement that harassment and toxicity happen as an ecosystem, right? It's not bad apples. It's not a boogeyman. It's not someone who is especially evil or anything like that. It happens in these cycles, and it's part of our culture in some ways. you know, it's behavior that we see modeled and we learn it and we experience it and we witness it and it can show up in our behaviors too, right?

So with that understanding, especially as a community resource, when these folks were reaching out to help, we decided that we decided that it was important to believe that people could change and that it would matter if they did. Yeah. So from there, we kind of just, we talked to a lot of experts. We, I don't know, had a bunch of conversations about, like, how to hold accountability while also supporting folks through the pain and suffering that they were, they really were experiencing. But doing so in a way that wasn't endorsing their behavior or kind of colluding with them or encouraging them to do it more. And also protecting survivors in the meanwhile.

So yeah, that was definitely a big great point for us. Yeah, I would not have expected that. I would have caught me off guard as well. So, you know, you talk about the fact that this isn't a boogeyman. This isn't somebody who's just a bad person. I understand that if you probably had an answer to this question, you'd be a millionaire. But how do you break the cycle? How do you break the cycle of online toxicity?

Yeah. Yeah, I do wish I had an easy answer for you. I mean, because I think the scales have to match, right? So if we know that this problem is kind of a cultural, big picture issue, the solution also has to be cultural and big picture. So it's going to be a long-term process. It's going to be a journey that someone's going to go on. And at the Games hotline, we know that we're just one stop on everyone's journey.

Anyone who texts us, it's kind of like a single instance conversation. We don't keep, like, records on folks. Every conversation is kind of a new instance. You're not following up the next week and be like, hey, did this work out or what about this? Yeah. And even if you, like, some people will text in multiple times, but they might talk to a different person that day. And it's not like we can pull up a file of like, oh, here's what you talked about last time. And so, you know, if we see our role as just kind of one stop on someone's journey, at the hotline,

we we kind of see ourselves our kind of obligation in this certain situation is like holding just holding the door open for change you know we're not we're not pushing people through and we're not slamming doors in people's faces all we we feel like all we have to do is hold that door open right let folks feel like they're supported because I think in order for people to change they do have to feel supported if it feels hopeless if it feels like no one believes in you. If you're a monster, everyone's going to think you're a monster forever anyways, you know, there's not a lot of motivation to change there.

So, you know, as a community resource, we feel like we can offer that in kind of a unique way. So holding that door open for change, offering, you know, validation and space to listen to what they're feeling, you know, getting called out is hard no matter what it is. And we can hold space for that. that, you know. And at the same time, again, not endorsing the behavior that they've done, really putting forth that belief that they can change. It sounds like it matters to you to do things differently from now on. And I think that's really important. You know, offering that support to them. And then, you know, and then, yeah, kind of the part of breaking cycles is like maybe sometimes redirecting

where they seek support from here on out, you know, like directing them away from survivors and directly impacted folks, because sometimes folks can kind of get into a space of like, ah, I just, they blocked me, but I just want to reach out to them again. I want to make them understand that I didn't mean it that way. Or why won't they listen to me? I keep trying to get back into this community, but they just won't let me in of kind of redirecting that and saying, you know, who else can help you process this? You know, who else do you have in your life that has been supportive for you during this time? Like maybe take some of those feelings and process them over there so that it's not kind of repeating those cycles and making those directly impacted folks feel like targeted again.

And I think I think that in itself, even though it's a small intervention, can make a really big difference. Like when folks come and text us about using a racial slur in a game or they just raged out at someone and now they're feeling really ashamed of that or just really embarrassed and like they can't even look at themselves. When they bring those feelings here, we can make space for that and we can support them and that means they're not bringing it into another game. Sure. I do think like starting with these kind of lower, level interventions. You know, we do this at the hotline, but we hope that it models for, you know, other folks and community as well. Like, these are all ways that we can treat each other.

And, yeah, start breaking those cycles and start shifting that culture. You know, how do we make, how do we make our spaces feel like that behavior isn't welcome here? You know, that, like, that's not an acceptable way to treat each other and not wait for it to get to the really extreme cases of big explosions and violence and start really at the smaller levels of like objectification, little jokes here and there that, you know, might feel sexist or racist. And interrupting kind of at these smaller cuts before we're kind of bleeding out, right? Oh yeah, totally. That's what we always talk about here on kind of funny, right?

It's empathy. You know what I mean? It is that idea if you don't, if there are the smaller infractions that don't get called out, then they start to build to, oh, that's what this place is. you're allowed to do that. You're allowed to do that. And it is so hard to call people out, right, and get called out. Like, it is a back and forth where you need to be there, but you always need to be able to say, like, okay, cool, well, I don't want to be that person. I don't want to hurt this person, nor do I want to be hurt, and do I want to let you get away with hurting me or somebody

else like that? Yeah. That kind of brings up something that you actually mentioned at the start when you were talking about, like, how a lot of the rhetoric around harassment is, like, grit and, like, toughen up. Yeah, right. You have a thick skin. You're forged in fire. Right. But the reality is, like, what we resist persists. And I think that's true for ourselves internally. You know, any feelings that we're pushing down, they're actually staying with us. They're not going away. I think that's also true, like, on a community and cultural basis. You know, like we've said, toxicity and harassment has been around for a long time. And, you know, I think most people don't feel like it's a good thing. No one's like. pro not a lot of people are pro toxicity right um but it is it has kind of become something that we just resist and we just push down of like okay well that's just how it is like it feels like too big of a problem like we can't control all of that um let's just kind of not really talk about it or not think about it and just do our best you know and and kind of grit through it don't don't ask for help

we're tough. And I think the solve to that is, is actually practicing these skills, like you're saying, of like, when, like, it can be hard to bring something up with a friend of like, hey, that thing you did really hurt me or made me feel this kind of way about myself. And the other side, right, receiving that call out, like hearing that you've really hurt someone, maybe that you really care about or that you really didn't intend to have that effect on, but, you know, nonetheless still happened, really shifting from a conflict avoidant kind of mindset, which is that kind of resisting and defensiveness, into a conflict generative mindset

of when this conflict happens, right? What it is really is that you and I have a mismatch, a misalignment in our understanding of things or the way that something came across. And this is an opportunity for us to build a bridge and meet each other and build more understanding and connection between all of our relationships. And I think shifting to that and practicing those skills, practicing those muscles, starting with the lower level stuff will give us the strength to really show up in a meaningful way when those larger explosions do happen. 100% right it's you know it's so easy to take the path of least resistance right or something like i don't like that but whatever i'll let it go and then on the other side if you're the person getting called out what usually happens right is you get defensive it's just a joke yada yeah you know what i mean you do that kind of as if that's going to get you out of the situation where you're yeah right you're

making the other person feel bad for feeling offended or whatever by it instead of taking that breath taking a step back and realizing of course well i do like you i didn't mean to offend you i didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Like that's not what this is about. So let's talk about it. Like you're talking about it's those little things are misalignments. And then it gets to be a huge thing one day if you don't do anything about it. Right. Exactly. And I hope that's kind of, I think that's part of what we are trying to do in our work as the game's hotline. And our larger hope and dream is, is that, you know, this, this makes more space for, you know, asking for help for vulnerability. And that can, like, kind of spread in our communities. And,

culture because really at the end of the day it's up to all of us and all we have is each other you talk about that being the bigger picture the biggest focus the hope for the games and online harassment hotline what does year two look like what are your what are your goals there yeah i mean even just based on kind of the stuff i shared about year one um one of you know i think it can be pretty apparent that like really are main priority is responding to the needs of community. So in terms of you know growth and and learning and improvement that that really is like we want that to be community driven. So when folks we really listen to like what folks are texting in about and

look at you know trends of you know for example there was a while where a lot of folks were texting us about blackmail folks like kind of blackmailing them either with intimate pictures or personal information like outing them to their family around sexuality or gender, stuff like that. And we, yeah, there was just a while that we kept getting stuff around that. And we're like, actually, we don't have the best resources around this. We're not really responding in a way that we feel like is the most robust. So we reached out to a bunch of experts again and put together kind of a little guide for our agents to reference when this comes up again.

And so that's, you know, that's just a new tool that we added to our toolkit. it. And so in that way, you know, we're always just kind of listening and responding to what the community wants. And we want that to drive our service because that's what's most that's what we do, right? That's our most important thing. Other than that, we do also have like some other big picture goals. They're not super concrete because we want to like really focus on that community driven part. But we would love to have more available hours. In this first year, we were actually able to double our open hours. So we went from 15 to 28, so almost, almost double. And we also opened on weekends. We were previously Monday through Friday only. And that, you know, seeing that,

like in how much more accessible that was to folks, it really, really helped folks get the support that they needed, when they needed it. And so we want to keep expanding that. We also want to keep making resources accessible to the public. You know, like, we've been having all this, like, cool conversation about mental health and accountability and culture and stuff like that. And we talk about that and think about that all the time on the hotline. And we want that knowledge and those resources available, not just to people who text into the hotline, but other people who might never text into the hotline as well.

So we're working on developing more resources to share just like with the public for free and stuff like that. So, yeah, a lot of big, big dreams and ideas on the horizon, but always grounded in making sure that we're serving and responding to the community and the people asking for help. I love it, you. Congratulations on one year. This is such a fantastic resource, and I'm glad people are using it. Thank you so much.

Yeah, we, like I said at the beginning, it really does feel like for a lot of us, the resource that we wish we had five years ago, ten years ago. And so it feels like, you know, it's always weird to say like when bad stuff is happening and when her ask and sounds like, oh, I'm glad. Obviously, we're not, obviously, we hope there's one day where we don't need to exist. Yeah. But I am really, really glad and grateful that we can be here for folks, you know, especially during really tumultuous times in the community, like now and I'm sure as will happen in the

future. Jay, if people want to get some help, where can they contact the hotline? Yeah, so to get connected with the hotline, you can text us from anywhere in the U.S. Any time, any day of the week. You just text the word support to 23368, and you'll get in the queue and get connected with a live agent. And again, we're online every day from 3 to 7 p.m. Pacific. So that's when we'll text you back. And then if you want to follow our work and find some of those free resources that I was talking about,

you can find us online on social media at Games Hotline on all the little platforms, as well as on our website at gameshotline.org. Fantastic. Jay, thank you for your time. Thanks so much for having me. This was such a delight to talk about. And, yeah, I really appreciate it. Anytime. For now, let's get back to the Gamescast. then we're back right and that's how it works

yeah exactly are you gonna be in trouble for how are you gonna insert the interview for a Patreon kids export two versions one with the ads and one with let's get right of applause for parents come on he's a pro he's a pro

going over time over here and I love it if that wasn't enough for you about the ghost of Sushaima director's cut review let's talk about 12 minutes of course last week we had Louise on to talk about 12 minutes a game we premiered kind of I don't know, six years ago in 2015 on a let's play.

And then he got money from Xbox, got picked up by Annapurna. Then he got Willem Defoe, Daisy Ridley, and James McAvoy into this groundhog day from hell kind of game. We've all been playing it right now. And so we can finally talk about it. And so Lucy, you got to be so quiet during Ghost. Tell me where you're at with 12 minutes and what you think of it. I'm like three, four hours in. And I still can't tell if I like it or not.

Ooh. I think There's a lot of it that I could I could say like flat out I don't particularly like I don't particularly enjoy the top down playing on controller I don't like the way that the It's a weird control scheme for sure weird but like overall

I mean do you want me to like kind of explain Yeah go for it? Oh yeah please go The conceit of it is basically you are you play as the character voiced by James McVoy and you come home one day and you're just trying to have a nice evening with your wife and then a police officer comes and stuff just like you get caught in a time loop of this like 10 minute section of you coming home talking to your wife and then a police officer coming and I can't because I haven't really like I saw the first trailer of it and I've been kind of like keeping away from it

because I was like I know that I want to play that so I don't know what the yeah so the night turns into a nightmare when a police detective breaks into your home, accuses your wife and beats you to death, right? I can say that that's in the marketing. That's the well, that's the setup of the game. Nailed it. Yeah, that's it. I mean, I'm just reading off the show notes you gave me. But again, I didn't, I don't want to like spoil it if that's not out there. But like, that's really interesting. That, like, central conceit and like why the police officer's there, like what your wife has to do with everything, how it unravels though, is where I'm not particularly enjoying it. And I can't tell if this is a me.

thing and it's just like my brain doesn't work the way that the game wants my brain to work but I'm struggling to get through it and I feel like it's taking me way longer than it should and I think is while the game is not very good at telling you what it wants you to do sure but again that could be me no no I think that's accurate and I think there so like for me I've beaten it I had a great time with it Like my tweet today said I love it And like obviously this shows to talk about that Because I say I love it

It's not without its problems It is by far It is not a perfect 10 game By any stretch to imagination There are the limitations of the controls There are the performances that I think range a bit And then just don't mesh sometimes with what's going on For words like I said

Spoiler cast on Xcast Second half of that on Saturday But like I feel the ending Is kind of like a Not even the ending I guess the final McGuffin that leads us into everything. I was kind of like, I thought early on that might be the case, but then I was like, that's ludicrous, but then it becomes real. I'm like, okay, well, that's what's going to happen.

However, all that said, this is such a Greg game where I love the, it's adventure, it's point and click adventuring. It is listening to dialogue and then trying to figure stuff out. It is taking a shot and not having it work out, but then when it does work out, having that serotonin boost, it's like, oh my God, yes. And then taking that little piece of information, you got in that run into the next loop. So you come back and you use that. It changes dialogue options that you can say. Then you get to piggyback off of. You get to spiral out of it. Once I got my hands on the game, I couldn't stop playing it. Like I liked it that much. Again, I think it's not for everybody. I think there's a lot of problems with it. But I had a hell of a time with it. Blessing. I really didn't

like this game. I rage quit it after getting probably about three to four hours in. And it's funny because I feel like this should be a blessing game. You know, I really like point-and-click adventure games. I really like narrative, but then I also really love puzzles. And I think the game does a bad job at being both a point-and-click adventure game and also a puzzle game. Because the puzzle in this game that you're trying to solve essentially is how to break this loop or how to solve this situation that you're in. And for the puzzle mechanics of it, right, like, for me, what makes a good puzzle is supplying your audience with the tools they need to solve the puzzle.

And then making it clear like, all right, like, you know, this leads to this. And so have fun, see if you can figure the thing out. And one of the things I think this game tries to do in order to get around the issue that we have with so many point-and-click adventure games is that it makes so many of its mechanics interactable. And so like you can take, I think we did this in the previous episode of Gamescast where we played the game on air where, you know, you can take a mug, you can combine it with the sink, you can put water in it. Cool. You can take a knife. You can do whatever with it. cool. You can combine things in really interesting ways that nothing feels like a wasted opportunity,

if that makes sense. You know, you have a same box that you can kind of go crazy with. I think the place where that specifically falters is that it even worsens the adventure game logic of, okay, cool, I'm stuck and I don't know what to do next. I'm going to combine everything with everything and figure out where the fuck I'm supposed to go. And for me, whenever I did figure out what the next step was of a major solution. I had never felt like those solutions were good or earned. The first few major steps you make in trying to get to the next point of, okay, what is this mystery? How do I get further in this loop? How do I stop this cop from choking me out? Right? Like, how do I stop doing X, Y, and Z thing? By the time I figured out the first one,

I was like, all right, cool, I guess. Whatever, I'll roll with this. And by the time I figured out, the second major solution in the game. I was like, fuck this. This is bad. It was one of those things where I genuinely I'm like, how are people going to figure this out without a guide or without talking to their friends? I know, like, enough people reviewed it that I know that so many people did figure a lot of that stuff

out. But I do wonder the percentage of people that are going to struggle so hard because the game throws so much at you in terms of what you can do that what you need to do really, for me, got lost in there when I think about good puzzle design. And so that I didn't

love, but then also the story and writing didn't sit well with me as well, because the game, of course, as a time loop game is dealing with a lot of repeated actions, and you are doing things as a player, you're going through a lot of dialogue trees over and over again and doing a lot of the same actions over and over again. And usually I'd be fine with that. This year is an interesting year because we have so many different time loop games. And I'm playing this game right after playing The Forgotten City, which is a time loop game that I absolutely adore. And the Forgotten City, I think that game may have colored a bit of how I view this game and how it handles its time loop because the Forgotten City takes in measures to soften that flow of

repetition in the time loop where if you do a thing, if you do a major thing in the first loop in the Forgotten City, when you come back in the second loop, there are ways in which you can shortcut that thing that you just did so that it doesn't feel like you're doing the same thing over and over and over again. Whereas 12 minutes as a puzzle game and as a narrative game, I found myself going down the route of doing the same dialogue trees over and over and over, like 15 times in a row, just hoping that maybe if I ask this person this thing, that a different dialogue option pops up, that'll give me the bit of information I'm looking for. And so that stuff really created on me as well. And that I'm like, it's that thing where I think you're right on about everything you're saying

and obviously your opinions, but especially for a year right now, you can skip dialogue you've heard before most of the time right unless you're actually in the scene versus when people are talking it'll make sense if you play but you still have to tap the button every time to skip every line I really expected there to be an option

that was you know fast forward automatically fast forward through anything I've heard before to make it go quicker and still burn time of the 12 minutes that you have to run every level right but not do it that way so I was surprised that wasn't there and like to what you're saying like you know some of that dialogue does change in those trees based on

what you now know or what you heard from the last thing blah blah as you run through it that way Mike you've been playing to you. Where are you? Yeah, I'm about blessing. I didn't cut you off. Did you want to say anything? I don't know, go for you.

I have a lot to say. Yeah, let's go wild. I'll get back. I'm about 90 minutes in. I've been playing all morning today. And it's actually funny. Listen to you three, there's so many things that I identify with,

that I agree with. And it is interesting because I'm having just a good time right now. I want to say this is like the middle of the road for me. It's a good time. But I'm actually riding the high of this thriller, right? this is not a might game, a point and click, single player game. But I think having it condensed and being in this small time loop slash room, I feel more like, okay, I can control this.

This isn't going to be some lengthy thing. And I'm riding this high of like, I'm putting pieces of the puzzle together. And I'm feeling like, oh, there's that seroton boost like Greg just said, right? I did that. I got that. And then like Lucy and Blessing said, where it's like, why are these mechanics like this? It's going to make me pull my hair out. I don't like this.

but now I'm like, I got to do it, right? Like, you know the steps, Mike, follow that. And so I'm riding this high right now of like, okay, I'm feeling pretty good of where I'm going. I know I get in. I'm like, hey, do this, do that. And I'm just riding that and I'm liking it because each time, like you said, Greg, of like I'm finding different ways to either fail or succeed, right? I do this.

Oh, that's a fail. Okay, well, now I know how to get to this point. Let's go for that. Okay, I did this. That's a succeed. I like that. And I love it. My heart races every single,

time the doorbell rings, right? Because I know I got to get to this point and then see what happens next before that doorbell rings. And I think they did a really good job at like that kind of rabbit chasing the carrot, right? I'm looking at the stick and I'm chasing it. And here it comes. And so I would say I'm having a good time. There's a lot of pieces where I wish they were better, right? The point click doesn't feel good on a controller. There's moments where it just doesn't sink up right and it kind of falters or if something goes wrong in your head that you thought was going to go right. The whole run essentially is just thrown in the trash and I hate that

right. But I am having a ton of fun of playing this cat and mouse game with the killer. Where am I going to go next? What's the next step? And man, oh man, I am liking it. So I'm going to say it's a good time for me right now. I'm enjoying it. Boss, baby, Barrett Courtney. You actually beat this game before me

and then we sent a flurry of Texas to texts to each other about it. What's your review on it? Where are you? I'm closer to you, Greg. I really loved it. I think I had texted to you at one point. It was really the journey for me of just, I treated it out this morning of like, it's, it's like kind of a really fucked up escape room in a really weird way.

And like how you deal with mechanics and stuff like that. And I was just, I was along for the ride. Yeah, I will say like the one, there's like some things near the end. I don't think it strongly sticks the landing story wise. And then the other kind of like two downsides that I had were, yeah, I think it feels terrible on a controller. You know, I'm a pro video game player, so whenever I play on PC, my natural instinct is to play on an Xbox controller. Of course, yeah.

So I started with an Xbox controller. Played for like an hour. Lulu agrees with me in the back. And I was like, oh, no, this feels awful. This feels terrible. So I was like, you know what? I remember we just talked to Luis about this game and talked about, like, all of the development stuff, even from six years ago. I was like, this was kind of originally created for a mouse.

So let me just play it that way. And then once I switched over to that, I was like, oh, this is way, way better. Just getting into the mindset of like point and click and stuff like that. As a quick time out for you, like, I know we talked about being a top down or whatever. But if you're playing on a controller, rather than control the character you are, right, you're controlling this mouse cursor that you move and then hit A and then they go there. And it's like, that doesn't sound bad, but like even getting off the elevator, which is the very beginning, I found myself on other runs, like going.

going too far and then hitting my like option, my items button that brought everything down. I don't know. A little shorter. I accidentally stabbed somebody to death because I just clicked using my controller. Yeah. Like having played like other point in click adventure games like on controllers and stuff like this, for some reason, I don't, I don't know why this game struggled with the controller controls. But yeah, I did not, did not love it.

But like, yeah, like I played like Grim Fandango on a PS4 and stuff like that. And none of that has ever felt like super weird. I guess Grim Fendango isn't truly point and click. But other like point and clicks where I was like, oh, yeah, this is like, it's definitely weird on a controller, but not like super off putting. But yeah, this one, like, as someone who loves the feeling of a controller, I was like, I need a mouse for this because it does not feel great. On this topic, I don't understand why they don't just let you control your character

with the thumbstick, with it not being a point and click thing. Like playing it, I didn't, it felt like there wasn't anything holding that back because you're not really using the living. It wouldn't break anything in the design. I totally agree with you, Blessing. But then on that, the other kind of downside that I just wanted to get out of the way is that I don't think all three actors are utilized very well. Of course, the main cast here that I think made 12 minutes pop out at E3 a couple of years ago when they re-revealed it was Willem Dafoe plays the cop. James McBoy plays the husband, and then Daisy Ridley plays the wife. And, you know, one second.

Connor writes into patreon.com slash kind of funny games. It says, hey there, games cast crew. How do you feel the A-list cast for 12 minutes did with their performances in the game? Do you think it worked well with them just doing the voice acting? And which performances stood up to you the most? Back to you, Bear. I think if anything this game showcases how good James McAvoy and Daisy Riddley are at American accents. Because if you had never said that it was those two actors, I bet you no one would have been able to tell.

Like the entire time I'm like, yeah, I can't notice this is James McAvoy. Every once in a while, Daisy Ridley will say like a word where I'm like, yeah, that kind of sounds like her Americanized. But yeah, of course, Willem Defoe is just Willem Defoe. So, you know, Willem Defoe is the standout. As far as the performances themselves, like I think there's some ups and downs depending on different scenarios. And I honestly think just like, you know, I was going on like, I beat this game in two sessions. And I think my steam clock said 5.2 hours, which you can translate to five hours and 12 minutes. And, yeah.

My God. After each, after both of my sessions, I was like explaining and ranting to everything to Alyssa, because I needed to like, kind of walk through everything that I had gone through and experienced. And I was explaining to her. And she was like, yeah, this sounds like a weird, James, like weird story that James McAvoy would absolutely love to be a part of. And so, like, I would say it's, like, kind of disappointing with, like, I don't think they're utilized super well. I do think, like, watching interviews with them, like, it was just, like, a really cool project that they wanted to be a part of and were really interested in. So on that side is, like, seeing that point of view as, like, an actor, I think it's cool that they decided that they wanted to do this. So it's a weird push and pull of how I feel about the casting here.

I, so I didn't love the performances, but I think that's, uh, that's compounded by just me not liking the dialogue. I feel like a lot of the dialogue the way that it was written, especially in how it was stitched together in the dialogue trees, made things feel stilted a little bit, where you would go from asking your wife about, like, how's your day, and then talking about, oh, there's a crazy killer cop. Like, the tone in which you would go from one dialogue,

one line of dialogue to the next line of dialogue, often didn't match up for me in a way that kind of took back the performances a bit. I was going to bring out the same thing. thing. It was like some cases where you, depending on what you pick in the dialogue truth first, will give you massive, just tonal whiplash. Like, there's

one conversation you can have with your wife quite early on in the game where you start like haranguing her and like yelling at her about a specific thing. And then the next thing you can go to is like, oh, so why are we having such a special night? Like, oh, I'll get the dessert out and we'll just have

a nice dinner. It's just like this whiplash and it just, that's a thing. an issue that I'm really having, like the more that I play it. And like I said, it feels like it has a very specific order that it wants you to do. And sometimes I feel like with the dialogue, if you decide to kind of veer outside of what the game wants you to do, you can kind of wreck the experience for yourself, but that's not necessarily on you as the player. That's just how it's set up in the game. Like, it gives you the freedom.

But when the player chooses to do it, it kind of ruins the experience and ruins the kind of the experience. And the game doesn't benefit from that freedom. Yeah, I can see that definitely. Yeah. Like Greg, I totally see the arguments of like why people didn't vibe with it. For me personally, like, I think the puzzles for me personally were the highlight, except for like one major one, I would say near the very end of the game. Because I've definitely got a smooth egg brain when it comes to puzzles.

I love puzzles in video games, but I'm definitely not a very smart person when it comes to puzzles. And I feel like I usually need to be handheld. with that kind of stuff. And like I knew for the like the presentation of this game before we got it in our hands. I was like I'm, I definitely want to check this out. It's not a Barrett Courtney game. I will probably have to wait until, you know, the game's out and there's guides to like kind of help me through.

And I like, I was impressed with myself that I was able to to kind of finish things without talking to anybody really about it, uh, who were also playing it until, uh, Greg and I were like both rolling credits and talking about some, some things there. And, yeah, like, I don't know, like, what it was of just, like, maybe the headspace I was in where it was just, like, a lot of the things, a lot of the solutions I was finding early on were things that, like, after, like, kind of every major beat, there was, like, an obvious, like, next step of, like, okay, like, I think this is the next goal. Let me think of, like, five possible solutions. And I don't know, like, what it was, but, like, it was usually, like, my instinct of, like, that I would go with. that would be the solution and it was a lot of like playing around with things and sometimes not everything worked but it was i i had a really fun time just like you know maybe like uh searching under

this thing or you know like doing something uh like very quickly in the middle of a run or you know like okay this thing didn't work quite as well let me just uh reset the loop and try it just slightly different and stuff like there's good of luck to it right i feel like that's the thing where it's like I'm with you that I don't a puzzle game I don't necessarily love and I hate running in that moment and feeling like I've done everything I can't do it. And there was one in this game that I would say, I don't know, the first third where I did something and then it played out and then something else happened that led to it entirely, basically an entirely new, not environment, but like the way I think about like, you know,

where you can play in this game and what you can do, an entirely new branch of everything. And I was like, if I hadn't accidentally done this other thing, I never in a million years. I think I never would have thought to make you go do that. And it's the same thing of like, sorry, I don't mean to roll. So there's that and there's like three different examples for me. There's that one. Then there was another one where I had the solution. I, Greg Miller, had the solution.

But my character, the husband in the game, didn't put it together. And it's that thing where I'm like, you have all the information I have. And if I'm able to go, wait a second. he's saying this and I have this and I was like why so then I got annoyed that I was trying I'm like how the fuck do I make him understand what I already know that sucked and I got there eventually but it was like that's not I don't like that I understand I understand both of those moments that you're talking about and it was like that that first one that you bring up that I think I know specifically what you're talking about it was like you know I do feel like you just get enough of like the

the clues of like all right let me play around with it in this loop and see like where I can play around with and then let me, you know, now that I know what it does to my character, let me play around with, like, how it affects other characters and other items in the room and stuff like that on other loops. And then the second one, I would say, yeah, that, that definitely was a puzzle that, like, you know, it's like, it's very obvious with, like, the way there's definitely some disconnect, some moments of, like, what the puzzle is and where the story is at, that I definitely agree with. And then for me personally,

I think there's only one puzzle that I was able to solve with absolute luck and it's very close to the end and that was the only one where I was like, all right, I kind of like fell backwards into this solution and I don't feel satisfied by this, but everything else I was pretty successful.

Here's me because I know blessings champing of the bit to get on here. I want to let him go. But the one thing I want to propose to you, Barry, that we can tackle either offline or on the Xcast for the cast. Xcast, baby. I remember when I asked you,

thing of like, well, I beat the game, but this is happening. Did you ever double back to that? No. And I had a fascinating conversation with one, the nanobiologist, who also played and reviewed the game and has a lot of, brought a lot of new light to the way we specifically finished the game, Greg, which I can't wait to talk. I've gone back. I've gone back since then. I've done it.

I've rolled true credits, I think, on the game. Because there is a thing that ends up putting, it ends the game. It does end end. Okay. Sorry, Blessing Go. Yeah. Well, I want to bring up one of the puzzle solutions early on, which may or may not be the same one you guys are talking about. I can't tell. But there's one puzzle in there early on where you have to interact with a thing multiple times in order to realize that it is an element that you can play around with in a bigger way that's going to actually affect your main progression. And the fact that there's a thing in that in your apartment that you have to like interact with twice to understand that, oh, this is a big element of how I can go forward in the stuff. story. For me, it was the most frustrating thing. Because by the time I actually figured that out, I think either Roger had it told me or it was just like hours of me of just like fucking around

and being like, what is the thing I had to do? That's the one I know exactly what you're talking about. That's the way I think I do. That's the one I stumbled upon where my wife did something, which then primed something. And then that was able to be there as like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. But I think for me, like that stuff would be, I mean, I would have those as, as complaints regularly, but it's compounded with the fact that there's so much that you can try out in this game and so much of it, you know, might lead to, oh, okay, I'm about to get there, about to get there. No, this is a dead end. And for me, that is what got so frustrating over time is there are so many dialogue options, so many dialogue trees. And oftentimes the dialogue

trees don't seem to be all the way consistent in terms of the options that they give you for what you're trying to say or what you want to say. And so that was frustrating as well. But then there also, I think for me there are also so many moments in this game that try to go for gritty and dark and at sometimes like, like shocking that for me did not sit well, especially when I'm going through this loop over and over and over again. Because in this game, most loops, you're going through in the span of a couple of minutes. And most of those loops end with somebody getting brutally murdered. And after getting about two hours into this game, that's where I had had it where I was like, I can't, I can't do this anymore. Where like in trying to solve one puzzle,

I ended up murdering my wife because I was like maybe this is the solution like I'm interacting with everything in this apartment so much that I was like maybe I should pick up the knife and murder my wife and maybe that'll be the thing that will lead to this thing that'll lead to this thing and the fact that like I mean it's so

fucked up you're fucking up wow dude it was one of those things where I was like this game is so dark and these characters are going through so much that I'm kind of like I'm really actually getting sick of it by the time I got to about three hours in like 30 loops and I was like I'm sick of going through these loops um and told you it gets even

darker than that that would be I'd be like even more fucked up than that but uh that to me also was oh fuck I had a I had a thought and I forgot where I was going to go with it um but yeah I didn't love that I didn't love that I guess is where it was where I'm coming down with it sure um I will say like you know like uh I was talking to Roger uh like I think at some point last week and then I was talking a blessing yesterday about this game, and I was surprised by both of them, like, like how much lower they were from the experience than Greg and I were. And I kind of had the feeling, though, like, this is probably going to be a divisive game at embargo tomorrow. And lo and behold, it has been.

And so I would say at least try it out, you know, I've been indoctrinated into the Xbox ecosystem. So if you got that sweet old game pass, I would say at least try it out. You know, like I know for some people, some solutions have been obtuse for, egg brains like me. Like I was able to kind of like escape by and find some things and be satisfied by those things. I would say like nothing gets as obtuse as like some of like, you know, some other point and click adventure like Grim Fandango that has a lot of like, how was this the solution to get

to this next room kind of stuff. Yeah. See, I thought this is exactly that. I legit was like, how is this a solution? Have you played Grim Fandango? No, but I played like other adventure games that like are obtuse in that way. went for me really stood against the pack. And the thing that I remembered that I was going to say

because it was brought up by me killing my wife, I feel like there's so much inconsistency in terms of the reactions to the characters and what my character specifically will bring in to the next loop. After I killed my wife, that should have been a fucked up thing that my character would have brought it into the next loop and would have been dealing with for at least a few loops. I did that, went to the next loop, and it's like it never happened.

Like he got over that. Yeah, it's only getting easier. Yeah, exactly. It's so easy. But there's so many. fucked up things that he sees and he goes through and by the next loop it's like it doesn't affect him and for me I was like this

I couldn't take the writing seriously because of it like there's so many things like that where I was like man you guys are almost there in so many instances and I love the setup of the game and I love I like this puzzle set that they have I like the ingredients that are there but the way they're put together and the way that I guess the way in which it's executed

just did not do it from here I would have liked to see some sort of like a commentary like I do agree with you there of like it felt like loops were so separate outside of like specific narrative things that I would have liked to see more of a deep dive of like what certain... Because I did a lot of, like without spoiling anything else,

I did a lot of fucked up shit throughout the entire playthrough. And I would have liked to see more commentary of how that was affecting your character. But for me, at one point I just accepted it as like, this isn't doing anything deeper. There are things that are shock values. that are just for shock value kind of stuff.

And I'm just, I'm enjoying the ride. It's a fun, like I said at the beginning, it's a fun escape room and it's fucked up. And I was his fiving. Yeah. And I think for me also, going back to killing my wife, there are other fucked up shit that fucked up things that I did even outside of that. And I think I'm down with shocking.

I'm down with unnerving. But for me, the game, the riding of the game would have to earn it. And I think that's the main problem for me is that in those moments, the game didn't really earn it. like, you know, me killing my wife, me doing other random shit and killing. That's not a spoiler. That's just a thing you can do. Those things never felt like they were earned or never felt like they were handled or addressed

in ways that did the story any justice. Wait until I tell you. So I assume you're not coming back, blessing. You're not going to finish it. I flirt with it because like, seeing the review embargo and seeing what other people have to say about it, I kind of really want to know what that ending is. At this point, I don't think the ending is going to save it for me. but like I've heard like you like I've heard um

your tone right now and then also what people imply in the reviews and other things apparently like the ending is fucking buck wild or at least the second half of the game is buck wild and I kind of want to know what that's about and so I might go back for it go back to it for that loose do you think you're going to finish yeah I want to I just want to see how it all plays out um but I think now I just I I feel like if I was just playing this by my

myself, I would have just stopped already. Like, I would, I mean, I just don't have the energy. And I'm, like, you know, I was thinking about this. I think the character who most represents me in all of film is Will Ferrell's character in Austin Powers as the guy who don't, who doesn't like to hear things more than twice. And I've discovered this about myself. I can't listen to the same shit. Like, we do it.

I listen to the same songs over and over again. but when it comes to like dialogue or like questions, I can't be asked the same thing over and over again. And so with time loop my most anticipated game in the air, but I know that they're doing, like, you carry all your knowledge over across each loop, so everything is going to be different. But with this one, it's like, your actions are exactly the same,

the dialogue is exactly the same, or at least in each loop until you like perfect it, that I'm going to probably just boot up a guide and like, give it a few, give it a few, give it a few runs. And if I don't feel like I'm jelling with the answer, I will probably just get the guy and move on. One thing I will say that we haven't really addressed yet.

We haven't mentioned like there are some fucked up shit in it. It's like, there is no real content warning on like what is in that game. And it's, I don't know if there's going to be like a page on Does the Dog Die about it. But it's like, I feel like a lot of people are going to boot up that game and not really realize this is how much of violence.

is how much violence against women. Yeah, there's a lot of... Like, I was quite taken aback by it. And it's like, I consume a lot of violent media, but, like, it did, it did kind of surprise me a little bit. I, like, honestly, this is one of the few times while playing a game where, like, I felt like I personally could have used the content warning.

Like, usually that, that kind of stuff, when it comes to violence and that kind of content, I'm pretty easy going with it. Like, I stomach that stuff really well. And, again, like, by the time I hit the three hour mark, I, like, it stressed me out. to put the game down and like you know I'm now that I know what's waiting me I'm I'm gonna go back to I I'm considering going back to it we'll see if actually commit to it but I'm right there with you that I think for sure with some of the stuff that's in that game it could have used that for sure yeah that's

obviously I've seen that going around Twitter and in the spaces today or whatever uh people talk about that and you know especially on the heels of boyfriend dungeon right yeah the their whole that they didn't there was they wanted better I'm trying to spoil that game people wanted more content warnings on that and I think that's where it gets interesting with this where I think again, you know, for six years, right, not that I talked about it every day or every month or anything like that, but I remember in that initial demo talking about the knife on the table and he'd be like, well, you know, you could kill your wife or whatever. And then also the fact that, you know, even if you're just talking about violence in general, right, like the way the cop man handles or their throws

you to the ground and stuff like that. Like the way the way that was there. I knew that was there. And so I think it's, you know, so many people have been jumping in, not expecting that in the same way that, yeah, it's rated, it's rated M for mature. Sure. But this is pushing it in a way you don't necessarily see games do all the time, right? And when they do, it's usually a big deal, whereas you saw something like Last of Us Part 2, right? Like how much that got from that, you know, cinematic that dropped right at Gamescom that one year of the arm getting broken with the hammer and stuff like that. It'll be interesting to see, yeah, what Anapurna and Louise do going forward if you want to do that.

And then obviously even to, I think, again, where it gets more fucked up, because it gets more fucked up to even like give you a warning for that i think might then tip the hand of what's happening in it and then you get into this push and pull of like well you know rated r movie doesn't give you a trigger warning content warning for what's going to happen but that's also in terms of where the art forms are at i think it comes with a different expectation right you see a trailer and you know how fucked up that's going to be whereas this if you watch a trailer for this you might just think yeah it's a time loop game it's groundhog day or whatever let alone that it's i saw somebody make an interesting point too that it's on game pass right so it's like

like available for way more people than would normally be getting their ticket punch to go get this. So it'll be an interesting ongoing conversation, I'm sure. But yeah. I think I went around the horn. Everybody had something to say about it. Yeah. But again, Xcast Friday. Oh, yeah, Mike, are you going to finish it?

You got to, you're going to get over X-Cast? Yeah, I've done a good job of biting my tongue because, you know, Blessing has talked about stabbing his wife. Lucy talked about those intense moments. And, you know, I've done some wacky things that I really look forward to having this conversation about in the middle of this. We're like, it's gone from just wild and wacky where I'm laughing out loud. Like, what am I doing, Mike, too? Like, you guys just brought up like, oh, snap, this is some real stuff going on in front of me.

This is crazy. So I really look forward to us on Friday once, you know, I'm going to complete this. And Khalif comes on and Baird and you. And like, just putting it all out on the table and talking about this. Because there's a lot of moments here that I've done a good job of trying not to talk about because I don't want to spoil it for anybody who's listening right now. And I look forward to just going wild on Friday so we can have that. this conversation.

Ladies and gentlemen, we hope you'll join us this Friday and into a public Friday, patreon.com slash kind of funny games. Everybody, YouTube.com slash kind of funny games on Saturday podcast services around the globe. This has been another episode of the Kind of Funny Games cast. It's not over. Of course, we're going to do the Patreon post show around patreon.com slash kind of funny games where you can write in to be part of the show. You can get this show ad free.

You can be a producer. You can usually watch it live and there's not some kind of crazy embargo and everything else. Lucy James, thank you so much for staying up with us and hanging out with us. Where can people keep up of you? Thank you for having me. I miss you all. I'm on Twitter at Lucy James Games. I'm doing GameSpot After Dark is up on Friday, our podcast,

and then the very online show over on Giant Bomb, I think is up on Thursdays. Yeah, Thursdays. And, well, it's because we record it, like, a weird amount of time beforehand, so I'm never sure when it's up. But I think it's Thursdays. It is Thursday.

And then I was on Bombcast on Tuesday, if you want to go back on this, and introducing the Americans to Chip Buddies. So. Is that that fresh fry sandwich I saw somebody screen cap or whatever? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not French fries, it's a chip. Proper chip sandwich, mate.

Snow mic and Mike, you know, over there they call French fries chips. I'm picking up the vibe. I'm picking up. Yeah, crisps are potato chips. Then what are potato chips? Wait, oh, crisper potato. Wait, okay. I see, I see.

I see. We don't, we don't say potato chips. We don't say huge. Ladies and gentlemen, we got a post show to do, but if you're not joining us on patreon.com slash kind of funny games. Until next time, it's been our pleasure to serve you.