Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Head of Xbox Game Studios Matt Booty Joins Us! - Kinda Funny Gamescast

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

Go to http://hellofresh.com/kfgames14 and use code morning14 for up to 14 free meals, including free shipping. Go to http://purple.com/kindafunny10 to get 10% off any order of $200 or more. Go to http://fitbod.me/kfgames to get 25% off your membership! The Head of Xbox Games Studios Matt Booty joins us to talk all about the past, present, and future of Xbox first party titles. Follow Matt at https://twitter.com/mattbooty Time Stamps: 00:00:00 - Start 00:02:38 - Housekeeping 00:03:45 - Matt Booty Interview 00:49:24 - Our Weekly Metroid Dread Update 01:12:49 - Sora in Smash Epic Creator Code: KindaFunny Follow The Gamescast Team On Twitter: Tim Gettys: https://twitter.com/TimGettys Andy Cortez: https://twitter.com/TheAndyCortez Blessing Adeoye: https://twitter.com/BlessingJr Mike Howard: https://twitter.com/SnowBikeMike Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up and welcome back to the Kind of Funny Games cast. As always, I'm Tim Getty's joined by one of the coolest dudes in video games. Blessing at Ayoje, Jr. I love that I've finally earned the spot. I feel so honored, Tim. Also, I wasn't here for the last few episodes. Last week, my voice is gone. My voice is still trying to climb its way back.

And so you're going to hear it come and go, but I'm very happy to be back. I have never seen a human being lose their voice for this long. It hurts me to hear you like this, bless. I've never had this happen to you before. Usually when I lose my voice, it's probably a good maybe four, possibly five days at the worst. I've lost my voice now for over a week, and I don't know how this happened. Like, it was like, it wasn't a bad cold that I had. It was a very light cold.

All my other symptoms were very light. You know, I didn't feel that sick at all. My voice just decided to piece out and not come back. And so. The one thing you need for your jobs. Yeah, exactly. And so I'm dealing with it. I feel I do like where my voice is at.

I do like, I feel like I've hit the point where it does have that little sexier tone. to it. Geneseiqua. The genusetroix, which might not be factual. People in comments are like, no, you do not sound sexy, but I'm just going to keep that to myself. So don't tell me the truth. Well, that's good.

That little voice that you heard as well, making his return to kind of funny content, we have the nitral rifle, Andy Cortez. Mike, you will agree with this statement is that when it comes time for the playoff, 70% of your best athlete is going to be better than a lot of other athletes. Bless is our best athlete. 70% of him at health, like, that's going to be better. That's going to vault us into the championship around, Mike. I would take him any day of the week like that, Andy.

Exactly. And that, of course, is the master of hype, the host of the kind of funny X-cast Snow Bike, Mike. Tim, thanks so much for having me on the games cast. And usually when I'm here, that means we're talking Xbox. And this week, we got a great Xbox one. Oh, we are definitely talking Xbox today because rounding out our group, We are very, very honored to have the head of Xbox Game Studios, Matt Booty. Hi, guys.

Thanks for having me on. Thanks. Matt, thank you for coming. This is awesome. You know, we were, I was working with Microsoft PR a little bit. We're going back and forth. We're like, oh, let's get them on Xcast. It's like, no, we got to do gamescast.

We want to make this like broader. And I love it. I love that gives me an opportunity to hang out with you. So I'm very, very stoked about that. We're going to be getting into a whole bunch of fun stuff today, a whole bunch of Xbox stuff. You guys wrote your questions in. We're going to ask them.

It's going to be a good time because this is the Kind of Funny Gamescast where each and every week we get together to talk about video games and all the things that we love about them. You can get it on YouTube.com slash Kind of Funny Games or Roosterteeth.com. If you wanted to get it as a podcast,

all you got to do is search your favorite podcast service for Kind of Funny Gamescast and we'll be right there for you. If you wanted to get the show ad-free, if you wanted to watch it live as it's being recorded, and if you want the exclusive post show. You gotta go to patreon.com slash kind of funny games. Just like our Patreon producers, Pranksy, Tyler Ross, Delaney Twining, Julian the gluten-free gamer, Alex J. Sandoval,

Techie Haas, James Hastings, Casey Andrew, and once again, Pranksy have done. Thank you all. So very, very much for that. If you don't have any dollars to toss our way on Patreon, that's totally cool. If you're out there buying video games on the Epic Game Store, use our Epic Creator Code, Kind of Funny, and that will help support us without costing you a single dollar more. So that is very, very cool. I want to get right into it because we are limited on our time with Matt. I want to let you all know I played as Sora and Super Smash Bros. I got a bunch to talk about that, but we're going to save the what we've been playing section for the end of the show.

We're going to get right into the Xbox stuff. Starting here, Matt, what have you been playing? Literally the last thing that I played would have been my awesome retrofitted game gear over lunch. You can get brand new screens for these. So this thing is like older than time. screens go bad, but they make awesome new high-reds LCD screens. I think this is like a Tato best of, so I got Space Vaders here. So that's that, but I get that asked that a lot. The reality is if I've got time after everything going on at work and looking at all the games going on in the studios,

I actually like to spend time coding. So I spend a lot of time in Unity and working on my own stuff. Nothing fancy, but I like making a game end-to-end, code, music art, the whole thing, and just keep him, you know, staying in the craft. So if a lot of people ask, what are you playing, I'm more likely to answer. Well, here's what I'm coding. And in this house, my wife spends a lot of time on the Xbox. So a lot of times at night, I'll go out there with a bowl of cereal

and watch her playing whatever it is there. So that's kind of how it goes in this house. The game that you're working on, is this completely just for fun? Do you plan to release it one day? No, they're not anything that could be released. You know, I put write-ups about them on my LinkedIn, in so you can go see some of the stuff. I did one sort of over last winter, which was a multiplayer tank game because I wanted to learn about multiplayer networking and unity. I wrote

the whole networking stack kind of on top of a thing called photon, which is pretty cool. Anybody can use it. Like I'm telling you, it's amazing. And right now I'm working on a tower defense game because I wanted to learn more about loading levels. And I started thinking, what's a game that's got a bunch of levels that I could load in? I'll make a tower defense game. So I'm working on that right now. But it's fun stuff and you can go read a bunch about it on LinkedIn yeah what what kind of motivates you to be like oh i want to do tower defense or i want to learn multiplayer stuff is that influenced by the xbox game studio ecosystem yeah it's more like it is i think it's a lot more just like looking around at what i

don't know much about right like i'll get into unity and then you'll learn how to do this then i'm like wouldn't it be cool if i could do that and you sort of get into these corners of of coding right and i know these days compared to when i first started making games you know back in the in the day I grew up working with guys like Ed Boone. You go back to the original Mortal Kombat. It was Ed Boone wrote all the code. John DeBioz did all the art. So it was like two people that made this whole game.

And now you get hired in. It's like you're not even a physics programmer. You're a vehicle physics programmer, which is different than a character physics programmer. And so it's just gotten so specialized. I mean, maybe for me it's a little bit of going back to the days when you'd sit down to work on a game. And you know, you were really writing everything from the operating system. to the graphics engine, to the user interface, to the code that would take the quarters in the old arcade games.

And there's something I like about being able to just sort of roam around all that stuff. Could never do it in a real game that was going to ship, but in my own project at home, I can do that. Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, you being back at Midway back in the day with Mortal Kombat, like this week I've seen Ed tweeting a whole bunch of videos, like, kind of behind the scenes of like the animation of like Scorpion and all that. Does that take you back? Yeah. Yeah, you know, I still talk to Ed occasionally, and, you know, we stay in touch, which is great that many of us are still friends.

I mean, a game that I got to work on when I was doing audio, that's what I started doing when I came out of school. I went to Midway just right out of school. We did the game Revolution X with Aerosmith. And so same thing, right? We've got all these videotapes somewhere somebody's got them of doing the video capture. Because it was blue screen video capture, right? And then people would go in and edit all the frames. So it was cool.

There was a lot of good memories of bringing in real people. You know, all those people are, you know, were real actors and real stunt performers that we brought in to do that stuff. Yeah, wow. That's super awesome. Mike, you had your hand raised. You have a question. Oh, yeah.

I was just thinking, you know, with you going around to studio to studio, do you ever hand out lessons or people saying, Matt, come over here, let me learn from you? Or do you learn from others? And what kind of stuff catches your eye nowadays when you go into these different studios and see them working on different projects? Well, certainly it's the latter case that I'm learning from that, right? And I'm fascinated with that stuff. I, you know, that's probably one of the coolest parts of my job is that I do get to visit the studios. I get to be there, see what the teams are working on. I'm always blown away by what the innovations, the thing that they're doing, the new stuff that comes in, people coming out of school, people coming from other studios, what they bring. You know, and it is kind of funny. I didn't realize this. But apparently, the people that travel with me,

they had some kind of code word for when I get distracted where we're supposed to be doing these tours and meeting everybody. And one thing I love is just seeing some of the advancements in art. There's a tool called Houdini, which is kind of this world building,

world sim thing. A lot of people use these days. It's just amazing some of the stuff that can be done with like procedural terrain, the physics, procedural buildings and cities. And if I see that on somebody's screen, I'm sort of like a bug to a light, you know. And then,

they're running around looking for me, where Mac go. We're supposed to be here doing this now. So I could probably spend all day just hanging out, learning about that stuff. It's one of the coolest things about games, right? It's all that technology, but at the, really, at the core of it is people doing creative stuff with creative tools. You know, what's the saying that games are the complexity of technology brought with the magic of entertainment.

It's kind of that intersection. So I just love staying up with that stuff. I love that. You know, we've been lucky enough to have Phil Spencer on the show and for many years, we've been friends with Aaron Greenberg. And so we've gotten a lot of the stuff. I remember when we first started kind of funny, we had Aaron Greenberg on the show and we kind of talked about one of Xboxes.

I forget the marketing term for it. But like it was one of the most ridiculous falls ever. It was like the greatest lineup of all time or whatever. And it had like Laura Croft and Chief and all this stuff. Now we're kind of moving into this era right now that is kind of unprecedented. It's insane that in the next couple months we have some. major Xbox releases, not just Xbox, but Xbox Game Studio releases, hot up the heels of Psychonauts 2.

And I mean, even with Game Studios, it was PlayStation, but Death Loop, right? Moving on now, we have Age of Empires, we have Forth to Horizon 4. We have Halo Infinite, all kind of within a couple weeks of each other. Like, I have so many questions about that, but just top level, how excited are you for this to kind of, like, what does this era mean to you? Yeah, well, just first of all, like huge shots. out to the teams that have been able to deliver these bigger games given, you know, we're still mostly working from home. Most of our teams are spread out and remote. There's been a lot of really cool games made and shipped in the last 18 months, 12 months. I'll just say the bigger the

game, the more difficult we found it to be. So it's just been a massive focus, dedicated effort to get games like Age, Forza and Halo ready to go out the door for our fans. So very excited for it. You know, it's just being in the middle of it, you work on these things for a while, right? And you kind of, you're in them and they seem, you know, the projects take a long time these days to get to that point where you're on the edge of being able to, you know, release it to the fans. It's so cool. Earlier today, I was talking to Shannon Loftus. She leads the Age of Empires team for us. And I was telling her like, nine days. You're nine days away. And she's like, I know, I can't sleep. I'm like, I'm excited. I'm terrified. It's all of it. So, It's just a great moment for studios. I think mostly it's a reflection of all the hard work by our teams. We've had some really difficult times over the last year, particularly for these bigger games. But it's just kind of the culmination of what we've been trying to put together,

you know, is to really get this collection of studios that can make great content and bring it to our fans. And, you know, it's awesome that we've got this all kind of lined up in a great period this fall. Is it hard to not look forward and look down the line? and because I got to imagine part of you wants to kind of appreciate the time you're in right now and understand that this fall is going to be a banger, right?

Like this next couple of quarters are going to be awesome for what Microsoft is doing. But is it hard to not look down the line and say, all right, but once that's done, we also have all the, we have A, B, and C, and D do next year or whatever. Like, how do you sort of manage that? Yeah.

It's a great question. I'll just say the studio heads, which is just a fantastic group that I get to work with, you know, they'll give me feedback and feedback as a gift that, hey, you should take some time to celebrate a little bit more because I'm like, all right, great, we're shipping, forts our eyes, and Halo. Now, what's going on with E3 next year? It's just easy to jump, you know, far ahead. And I think that is part of my job, which is to be thinking down the road, right?

Like, what are we going to be showing as we get into next year? What does the lineup look like? You know, what do we have coming together? What things would we want to put more resources on? What things, you know, what shape are they in? And, you know, it's a balance of both. I mean, I want to be clear. Like, our teams have just been working so hard to get to where we are.

As you said, it goes all the way back to Psychonauts 2, which is just fantastic to see the reception there. It's such a small, concentrated, focused team at Double Fine. I think it's amazing what they're able to deliver. We brought Flight Sim over to console. We've got studios supporting GamePass, of course, supporting XCloud. You know, we've got just a lot going on. We've just had our Minecraft Live event over the weekend with the Caves and Cliffs updates. So, like, every team has got something going on, even in addition to these big three.

And so I think it's important, particularly as it lines up with the Xbox 20th anniversary, to, as you said, it's great, it's a great call out pause. Like, you know, just kind of let this soak in and, you know, feel good about it and celebrate. And, you know, there's, hopefully we got years and years and years of more great games lined up. Yeah. So, I mean, you kind of touch on it about like, that's part of your job is calling and checking in. Like, you are the head of Xbox Game Studios. What is your job? Like, what are you actually doing?

And I know that's such a broad question, but like, is your job to kind of check in with the different teams and like, like, kind of like, how much is the strategy of like content roadmap and all that? Like, what is your job? Yeah. Well, first, the games and the game teams, that is all because of our studio heads, right? Like we talk about we've got 23 studios, but behind every one of those studios is a studio head, a leadership team. And we've talked about this a little bit before that we're. very creator-led, right? And it doesn't mean that the design lead is running the studio, but it just means that our studios are formed. You know, you could build a studio around a business

approach. You could build it around a marketing approach. We build our studios around production. So when it comes to, you know, nobody needs me playing game designer. Nobody needs me in there helping run their studio. My main job is to make sure that those studio heads have got what they need. So that is, I am their voice back to Phil's leadership team. I'm their voice back into the broader Microsoft. And really, my job is to wake up and say, is there something in somebody's way? You know, like right now, what is Bonnie Ross who's, you know, working with her team to get , hey, is there anything that I can do to help her today to get out of the way? You know, what is, you know, Alan Hartman, who's working on Fort Saras of Five? Like, what did, you know, do they need

the team at playground? And it's really just to be of service to them to get stuff out of the way. And there is that strategic aspect to be the person who's looking down the road, Phil and the leadership team that I get to work with do a great job about, you know, we kind of break things down into sort of there's, you know, near term, some midterm and then some longer term stuff. I mean, I was talking with our leadership team, I think it was last week. It's kind of interesting to think that at one point in time, you know, our X cloud was one of those far off in the distance things, right? There was a time when it was, we were just sitting around like, wouldn't it be cool if, right? I mean, there was a time when Game Pass was one of those things. And, you know,

they come together and then you've got to think about what's down the road further. So that's really a lot of my day. It, you know, it's, that's why it's so special to me when I get to spend time with the studios because that is really unique and seeing the people, seeing the craft at work and getting to go out to the studios. It's the thing I miss about the fact that we've been working from home, you know, that we normally, we spend a lot of time getting to drop in and visit and see everybody. So that's the highlight, you know, and then there's kind of all the other stuff that needs to just be

taken care of. So my next question, Bless and I do kind of funny games daily. We're often talking about news stories. We're talking about games, a lot of delays, if I'm being honest recently, which is totally understandable. I am so morbidly curious about the what could have been. When we look back at obviously the world's in a different place now, plans are all entirely shifted, everything's out of whack.

I often think about the MCU and what Kevin Feigey's done with the lineup and having to deal with things not necessarily coming out in the order that they play. planned and all that, and especially as of yesterday, entire slate shifted back and all that. I imagine with video games, it's even more complicated than movies and TV just because of the way they're produced. And get into as much detail as you want to here. But how different would the last two years have looked without the pandemic in terms of Xbox Game Studios?

And Matt, Matt, before you get started, understand that Tim is not just curious. He's morbidly curious. I am morbidly curious about this. You know, that's, I'll just go with curious. You know, I think we would have, so a couple things. I think we got to sort out there's a lot of things going on in the industry right now. And in addition to some of the delays that I'm going to put in the bucket of, just people have had a lot of other stuff on their minds in the last 18 months, right?

Just from a social point of view, a social health point of view, there's been an awful lot to, to, to think about besides just how do we get games done. You know, even just like just basic sort of day-to-day stuff, like my kids aren't in school, so they're home all day, and how am I supposed to sort of get my work done? Well, that's going on. So I'm always trying to keep in mind that that is one layer. Then there's just a layer of some things being slowed down

because we've had people working from home. We were trying to adapt. But I just think there are also some trends underlying that about how people want to work, right, about some choices that they want to make, about how things get done. I think that we are perhaps maybe, you know, rethinking how we approach games. I mean, you wind the clock back. I mentioned we're on the 20th anniversary of Xbox.

You know, it used to be that a game you'd ship it and that was it. There were no updates. There was no nothing, right? It just sort of went out the door. And now, you know, the real work starts almost the day after you launch, right? I mean, it's not the case that we're going to launch any of these games we're talking about and get to go on vacation. You know, there's content, there's things that we do to make sure that everybody can stay

engaged and keep having fun. So I think that those trends would have happened anyway, that we'd probably be in a point where we're rethinking how we go about making games. I'll say, you know, with more and more people playing games comes a demand for more games, which means that more people want to make games. There's more demand for people that know how to do that. You know, and that's also just changed the way. that we've gone out and found people in the industry,

what we call co-development partners, outsourcing partners, people. Any game has got dozens of people that provide content and things that they build and help code for the game. And just even with the industry, that's changing a little bit. So I think that maybe there might have been some games that came out a little sooner. Maybe things would have gotten done a little bit more smoothly. But I think there's some industry trends going on that still would have happened, you know, around how we build teams and how we approach big projects.

Mike? Yeah, talking about new trends and kind of evolving the industry and how we create games and how your team works. I would love to ask about collaboration. Of course, that is the word of the year with it takes to collaboration between your first party studios and also the big news that we heard of the initiative and Crystal Dynamics in that partnership with a third party outside studio. What's that like to you as kind of the top of the pyramid talking with these studio heads? How does that go about and what's it like with a third party bringing in for that

Yeah, it's a great topic to hit on. It kind of builds on what I was saying. I think we're in a point in the industry where if you've got a team, like the Crystal Dynamics team that comes available, which has got great pedigree, good success, just a lot of skill. And through connections and, you know, the fact that we got Daryl Gallagher at the initiative who knows some folks there and they become available, you know, back to sort of what's one of my jobs day to day, it would just be, I'd be remiss to say, well, like, we've got to find a way to make this work, right? We've got a team that's got experience building the kind of thing that we're building, who's worked with some of the people that's now available.

You know, it was not a standard situation because they're not usually about billing themselves as sort of a co-development studio like many places are, but we found a way to make it work. And I think it was through some of the personal connections that we've got. So I'm excited about it, just in terms of what it adds. onto the team that we've already got there at the initiative. And again, just it's too precious of a resource right now in the industry to not jump on that. And we can figure out some way to get a contract done or whatever we got to do. And in terms of the teams working together, you know, that's a place where I think the technology is evolving, right? Like, how do we review builds?

How do we play games remotely? How do we look at, you know, 4K art and as crisp and as uncompressed as we can. You know, how do people, you know, just pass a controller around? You can't, you know, we don't have people in the same room here play this. No, do you see like this doesn't feel right? Like, that's a little harder. But I think it's pushing the technology. And one, you know, there's definitely times when it's a pain in the rear. We're kind of having to do stuff that feels unnatural. But one thing I'm really excited about is that it opens us up to bring more voices into games, right? Like game development, game production is definitely centered around pockets, at least in the U.S. and even in the U.K.

And if we've got tools that were, it doesn't matter where you live, it doesn't matter where your background is, and you can join a game team, I'm just excited about being able to find new talent in places where we haven't looked, people that haven't had access because of a personal network to getting into a game studio, that is exciting to me, like bringing new voices, new skill, new talent in. And I think that'll be, that's kind of the gold at the end of the rainbow that doesn't feel so much like a rainbow sometimes right now. I think that it's a definite positive for us. One more follow-up to that.

What is it like with working with outside studios? What's your involvement with, like, let's say, contraband and avalanche game studios? What is that like for you where it's not really under the umbrella, but, of course, we're partnering with that team on the Xbox side. What's that like for your role? Yeah, you know, just because we're at this 20th anniversary, maybe I've been spent a little too much time, like the kind of thinking back,

like, what was it like 20 years ago, 10 years ago? And, you know, those publishing relationships, 10, 15 years ago, you maybe had a small team that would work with a studio like that. But today, our games are integrated so tightly with the platforms, right? Like, how is this game going to interact with GamePass in the audience there? What does it mean to make a game ready to go out on XCloud? What does it mean for a game to be able to play well? We still have a lot of people playing on Xbox One.

Like, how do we make sure we're ready for that? So the integration there is a lot tighter. So we've just got bigger teams. We've got we work more closely with them. And we again come at it from a point of service of how do we set them up. You know, with a game like Age of Empires, the game was developed by Relic up in Vancouver. But we've got a full team here in Redmond that works very closely back and forth with them. And I think that's the norm.

You know, I think you could look at just about any big game in development right now. And it's going to be rare to find that everybody. working on that game is sitting in one building. It's going to be distributed and it's going to have a lot of different people working on it. You mentioned looking back, obviously it is Xbox's 20th anniversary. As of today,

as of the day of recording, you guys just announced that on November 15th, there will be a fun look back at Xbox's history and all that. You've been with Xbox Game Studios for a while now. Looking at all of that, like, what are some highlights for you of, like, key moments in the Xbox Game Studios history

that you think kind of are are some of the most important pillars. And then really, that's just context for, do you think we're going to have any of those moments in the next year or two? Yeah, that's a good one. You know, I think the biggest thing for me going back 10 years is just think about how far we've come as an industry. And I look at that in a couple, you know, a few different layers.

I think first, we have been on a 10-year journey to try to bring more people into Xbox, to bring more people into gaming. And when you think about all the work, you know, there's no one thing that I think you could point to. I think it's the aggregate, the accumulation of what does it mean to create a welcoming social network, a community that wants to invite people into Xbox? And what is all the work that goes on behind the scenes to make sure that we create a place that's fun, that's safe, that, you know, both parents can be on,

but they can also create a situation where with parental controls, their kids feel safe to play, right? Like that's been such a journey for us to go from kind of just the gamer to the world, right? We really want to open up gaming to as many people as possible. I think another thing that we've been on a real deliberate journey with, and, you know, there's just some great milestones is just what do our teams look like, right? Like we build games for everybody on the planet to play. The people that make our games should look like the people who play our games. And, you know, we've got, we've made progress.

We've got a lot of work left to do there. But just the voices and the faces and the people that are involved with making games should reflect the same awesome mix of people that we've got out in the world that are playing games. And I feel much better about where we are today than where we were 10 years ago, certainly better than when I started making games like a long, long time ago. And that's a big one. I think another thing is we've set ourselves up to be able to grow with bringing in more studios and having them feel comfortable that they're not going to lose their identity. you know, the Minecraft acquisition and working with Mo Yang, we learned, I learned so much from working with Mo Yang about what's important about a studio culture and how much it really plays through.

I like to say that when you play a game, the fingerprint of every person that worked on the game somewhere is in those pixels, right? It comes through. And I just learned so much about what's important to preserve there. So those are big ones. And obviously, you know, along the way, there's been just great game launches and new, you know, the new things created. like Sea of Thieves and you know here we are at you know the anniversary of Halo even right so

new things old things it all comes together coming off with the Sea of Thieves thing right it was recently reported that uh I believe the numbers for see of thieves are around 25 million which is super impressive and that's super awesome does that make you guys go we want to see more Sea of Thieves like in terms of the type of game that it is because i know Xbox game studios in terms of the catalog is very diverse right you got your forces you have your halos you have your gears you have so many different types of games. Does see of the success motivate you to want to chase after that type of game, that type of experience for the audience? It's a I

love that question because it's got a lot of layers to it. So I'll try to tease stuff them apart. You know, probably the closest thing that we have to the next Sea of Thieves is grounded from Obsidian, which might seem like a weird kind of a thing, but that game was made with a really small group of people. I think that it's the kind of game that's got a great foundation that we could be working on grounded for the next five, 10 years, right?

I mean, it could keep growing. If you remember, when Sea of Thieves first came out, some of the criticism was there's not enough to do. It's a cool idea. Maybe the world isn't realized enough enough. But when you then look at what we started the summer with, with the Pirates life, with how we were able to bring the Disney characters into Sea of Thieves, you know, that's a pretty long journey for something like that to go on.

So, you know, I think that the next Sea of Thieves, the next 20thes, the next 20thes, the next 25 million players is lurking somewhere in one of our games like a grounded. In terms of steering the teams toward games, it comes back to what I said about being creator-led. I want them making the game that's inside them that they want to make. And then our job is to support them. And the cool thing about GamePass is that it's got room for everything from Halo to smaller games like Grounded. We've got some really cool stuff that's a little bit smaller coming from Obsidian. We have smaller teams.

By smaller, I think of like, you know, 75 people, our studio up in Montreal, compulsion games and what they're working on, you know, single player, multiplayer, big game, small game. We really orient to what does the team want to work on that they feel passionate about. And the last thing anybody needs me thinking about is what I call sort of portfolio bingo. Like I don't want to go to Tim Schaefer. You know, Tim, I really need a rodent-based mascot platform. That's not in the grid anywhere.

Like I don't, you know, let them make what they, what they think is going to be cool, right? I mean, jumping off of that, you know, with PlayStation Studios finding so much success, kind of with their pedigree of games and their IP that they focused on the last generation or so, building into, you know, some of the biggest AAA,

debatably quadruple A games out there. You just said that like, you're not really chasing this or that. But like, do you ever kind of think as the head of Xbox games? games studios. I want I want us to have one of those type of games. You know, first, just to bring it up, I mean, you know, hats off to Sony and they just their studio system and the leaders that they've got there. I mean, it's fantastic, right?

There's just you can't argue with the quality and the craft and the games that they've delivered and that they're working on now and the stuff that we've seen so far. So just, you know, kudos and hats off to them. I think I tend to come at that less of, of one of those and more making sure that we are paying attention to fan expectations. Right. And I think that there's a certain kind of game that generates an anticipation. It kind of becomes this big tent pole moment. It's a game that fits that intersection that everybody can play.

And it's also a big world that you feel like you can have, you know, you can inhabit. And I think those kind of games are important. And certainly, you know, it's been a place where we have not been out in front of. front. We haven't really had the sort of one-to-one with Sony there. I don't necessarily want to get into what's our encharted, what's our Horizon Zerothon, what's our this, what's our that. I don't think that does anybody any good, but I, you hit on a great point, which is what I take away is what are those games that have got universal themes that have got a big world that people want to get lost in that have really well-realized characters and really high production values? That is

absolutely what we want to go after. And Phil did an interview yesterday, I think, with the Wall Street Journal, and he was talking about, look, we're not done, right? We're still growing. The games industry is growing. Xbox is growing. And so we studios are going to have to grow along with that. And making sure that we've got those kind of games for our fans is important to us. I want to do, I just wanted to mention kind of going back to what sort of game is out there that could be the our next C of Thieves, right? You mentioned grounded. And I know back in the summer, we had heard the reports of Ever Wild kind of being put on hold and sort of going through a restructuring and a relaunch in sort of ways. Is there any update on Ever Wild? Are you, do you think that that could

be a game that in the future, obviously this is probably a while off? But is there anything there that any updates that we can hear about that? Well, first I'll just start. So Louise O'Connor, who is one of the leaders on that team, you know, as part of Rare run by Craig Duncan, you know, what is Rare known for? They're known for creating new IP and creating worlds. And, you know, say when you look at it from the outside, when you hear words like reset and maybe restructure, I'll just say that those are probably a little more definite and a little more extreme than what really happens as a games comes to life, right? Mark Turmel, who is the creator of a game called NBA Jam. You might remember it. Arcade game back in the day, guy that I got to work

with and learned a lot from. He used to say that a game gets made a thousand small decisions at a time, that every day you're making hundreds of small decisions and at the end of however long you work on the game, they all add up. And I think that's where the Ever Wild team is right now, as they're just trying to make sure that they've got something special. We've shown kind of a glimpse of a world. You've seen the art style that the team has got. But we've just trying to make sure that they've We want to get it right, you know? And so it's, I think any game that you went and were able to sort of spend a behind-the-scenes you're with, you know, it's that mix.

I mentioned Shannon has this. Like there's some days where you're just terrified. You're just like, what are they making? What is this? How is this ever going to come together as a game? And then you balance that out with, you know, a day later, this build comes together. And you're like, wow, this is magic. Like this little bit of this game is magic here.

So I'll just say that, you know, we'll share more on every. wild when the team has got some cool stuff to show. We know that there's excitement and anticipation for it and we don't want to just keep things hidden for too long, but it's just natural that a team's going to kind of go through some of that process. And it's one of the things that has changed also in the last 10 years is our teams just try to be more transparent about what's going on. Here's what we're working on. Here's where we are. And the window into that world, though, can also sometimes, it can be easy to want to put labels on it and things. But to me, it's kind of an ongoing process.

You're always trying to just do what you need to do to make the best game you can. This episode is brought to you by Purple. It's funny, the last few years, everyone has been really interested in their sleep quality. There's all these methods for getting a great night's sleep, meditation, yoga, mattress toppers. But no matter what you do,

if you're sleeping on a terrible mattress, your sleep will also be terrible. It's that simple. That's why I recommend that you sleep. on a purple mattress. That's because only purple mattresses have the gel flex grid. Unlike memory foam, which remembers everything, Purple's gel flex grid bounces back as you move and shift. I absolutely have been loving my Purple Pillow. I've been time about it for so many years. The Purple mattress as well is such a fantastic way to improve your sleep. I could not recommend it more. Getting a great night

sleep starts with having a great mattress. Get a purple mattress. Go to purple.com slash kind of funny 10 and use code kind of funny 10 for a limited time you can get 10% off any order of $200 or more that's purple.com slash kind of funny 10 code kind of funny 10 for 10% off any order of 200 or more purple dot com slash kind of funny 10 promo code kind of funny 10 terms apply next up of course i want to give a shout out to hello fresh meal planning and going to the grocery store is so 2019 get rid of those to do list items with hello fresh they're here to keep you stocked chopped and fully brock. Oh, I love that. They're talking about broccoli. Hello Fresh delivers pre-measured ingredients and mouth-watering recipes directly to you. And we're talking fresh going from the farm to your

door within a week. They've got options like quick and easy meals, low prep, one pan, and 10 to 15-minute meals, which Cool Greg has been loving, absolutely. So you can cut down the time you spend on cooking and cleanup that you can get back to your family sooner. Plus, Hello Fresh Shoppers, fantastic variety with over 50 menu and market items to choose from every week, including vegetarian, Cali Smart and even gourmet options. Recently, Kevin was telling me about this fried rice that him and Paula made. It sounded fantastic. You can go to hellofresh.com slash kFgames 14 and use the code KFgames 14 for up to 14 free

meals, including free shipping. That's up to 14 free meals free, including free shipping at hellofresh.com slash kFgames 14 with the code KF Games 14. And finally, shout out to FitBod. Sometimes keeping your work. motivation can be tough, even more so if you get bored with what you're doing or it gets too easy. Because making progress means overcoming new challenges in keeping yourself engaged. That's why FitBod created a fitness program that adapts to you with new exercises to adjust how you're progressing.

Cool Greg's been doing this. He's been training for his half marathon. And FitBod's been a great thing to help keep him accountable, keep it feeling fresh. Just keep him motivated to keep his exercise up and keep trying new things. FitBod's algorithm uses data and analytics to help you build on your last workout to match. maximize your results. Plus, FitBod workouts are balanced to avoid overworking muscles with varied exercises to keep you sharp. You can pick up the pace on your fitness journey with FitBOD today and your future self

will thank you. You can get 25% off of your membership at FitBOD.me slash KF Games. That's 25% off at FitBOD.me slash KF Games. F-I-T-B-O-D-M-E slash KF Games. Games media has kind of functioned a certain way for a long time. I think with that, we're kind of used to talking about a game. And in the same way of game development where the game comes out, like you said, and then, hey, there's nothing after that.

But now that's totally changed. And so the way we talk about successes or failures or whatever kind of has ebden float and, you know, blessed bringing up C of these, 25 million players now. Like that was a game that 10 years ago, we would have talked about as a failure. Oh, it came out. People played it for a little bit and never played it again. But then there was this now, this quiet. And then all of a sudden a year later, we're all talking like,

whoa, here's this new story. This is insane. Internally, with Xbox Game Studios, are there any crazy success stories like that, even on a smaller scale, that you're surprised people aren't talking about, even though that's the reality that maybe internally you guys are all like,

yo, we have something here, and games media just doesn't get it. Well, I don't know, don't get it. It's a great thing. You know, what's the quote, I'm sure, who knows who said it first, but it's the you can work for years to be an overnight success.

Right. And, you know, there's definitely something to that. I mean, just even something like Minecraft Dungeons, which is an offshoot from Minecraft. I don't think people realize, like, how many people are playing that, how big it is, right? And it validates this idea that the Minecraft world is big enough. You know, we've done some experiments with trying to offshoot from Minecraft and some haven't really gotten traction, but Minecraft Dungeons is really kind of becoming a whole game unto itself, right? And back to the question that you asked about, you know, what do I do and my job?

I think that's one of the places that I can be helpful to the studios, which is trying to be a little bit of a shield for some of that tension. Because it happens internally. Hey, we launched CFTs, we gave it a shot. We're three months in. It's this thing really going anywhere? Should we put the team on something else? And, you know, I wish that I could say that there's some kind of recipe or wisdom to it,

but it's just a gut of the team believes that they've got something. I see something like what can we do to try to buy this team more time? And it's not that we want to, you know, chase after things. We've had some games, you know, that come out that don't quite hit. And then, you know, the team says, look, we just, we don't see a path here. We kind of, it's not coming together. Let's get that team working on something else, right? And we want to make sure that we're being honest with ourselves about that.

But you don't want to, I think it's important now to stick with things and see where they go. One of the things that I like that you mentioned before was about Rare and talking about that, you know, Rare is known for new IPs. You know, that is where they shine. And that's something I love because Rare historically is one of my favorite studios. And I never put that together that, oh, the reason why I love them so much is that because they have done so many different projects that have all been new and fresh and awesome. For you, when you look through Xbox Game Studios, is there one studio in particular that

sticks out to you in terms of a studio that you're excited about to put out a new project? And that could be on any level, right? That could be on, Hamill-Winfidt it being the biggest game of the fall, or it could be on, you know, people don't expect what Red Fall is gonna be or whatever it may be. Yeah, well, I think Red Falls gonna be cool, because I have seen builds of it and it is pretty cool.

And it's one of the cool things about the partnership with Xenomax and Bethesda is to get to spend time with Harvey Smith down there again. You know, as we've bought these studios, one thing that happens is they come out with a game or they're close to coming out with a game. It gets attention. We go talk to them.

We acquire them. But you look at like Obsidian, they had to ship outer worlds, you know, after we acquired them. We acquired compulsion games. They had to ship, we happy few and wrap that up.

What I'm excited for is the first full turn of the crank under the Xbox banner. So Psychonauts 2, which we just shipped and we gave a little more time to. You know, that was started well before we started talking to double-fine. So, you know, just one example.

example, I'm excited to see what double find is going to come up with. Because this will be the first blank piece of paper under the Xbox banner, as it were. Everything that they were working on before has wrapped up, is shipped. It's so great to see the success with Psychonauts 2. But now we're in that cool phase where blank piece of paper, you've got the support of Xbox, like, where could that lead? And we know that Tim has just got a mind full of thousands of games yet to be built. And so, you know, you know there's something in there. So it's exciting to think about what's up next.

What do you think that actually means? Like what does, oh, it's now an Xbox batter game. This is why that means that's going to be different. And how much does Game Pass have to do with that? Well, I think it means a couple things. One, I think it means that they've got a little latitude to take some more creative risks. Right. If you're a 100-person game studio right now trying to go and find a publisher and you're trying to raise money to pay your team,

just it's a human nature that you're going to want. want to maybe gravitate towards genres right now that have got a little more attention or you're going to sort of pull in some buzzwords and you're just going to you need attention right battle royale everything bitcoin funded battle for the first right i give you guys all the all the buzzwords right so i think there's some creative freedom i think also that they've got a little feeling of safety right i've got some theories about creativity that sometimes when you've got limitations when you've got pressure, that that can create creativity because you've got to find ways to solve problems. But at the same time, it's tough to be creative when you're under stress. And it's tough

to be creative if you're trying to worry about making sure that your studio is all going to get paid. So I hope that the stability and longevity of Xbox lets everybody relax a little bit and that that creates a new layer of creativity. And then lastly, just that, as you mentioned with GamePass, there's an audience out there. Probably the biggest dynamic with GamePaths. pass is that a game can find an audience that it might never have found before because a game can go in there and we try to make the discovery as easy as possible, the friction as low as possible, and a game that goes in there has got instant access to an audience that it probably never would have had access to before without or even with monster marketing campaigns and things.

So I think those three things are what I'm looking for to. You've seen that. Like that sounds in theory like that's actually happening. But behind the scenes, are you actually seeing that like these small games are like having a huge uptick? Absolutely. And you know, you had Sarah Bond on. She would be able to rattle off a list of games coming through ID at Xbox or games coming through our third party where they went into Game Pass and then saw big success off on Steam or on other platforms and we get letters from the developers. Like, hey, you know, to us, GamePass was just this amazing sort of banner and broadcast to get our game known and get out there.

even with something like Back for Blood, right? Recent release, right into Game Pass on day one. Great for the players. I think that thing's found a big audience. And, you know, I'll just say real tangible for us grounded.

Again, small game made by 15 people probably would have come and gone if it were not for Game Pass. And now, you know, we're going to continue investing in that thing going forward. Snowmike, Mike,

we're running out of time with that. What do you got? I'm going to steal this before we have to go. The rest of the show is all yours, Mike. Go for it. My final question to you is you worked with the Midway Games team, and that was a big part of my childhood. And we've always talked about Xbox backwards compatibility.

If you could bring back any of those Midway games titles that are near and dear to your hearts, you know, I think of a world that sorely misses a boxing game right now, maybe ready to rumble. I think of an awesome boat racing game called Hydro Thunder that I used to just damn the arcade cabinet with. Is there a game that you would love to bring back? And what are some special ones to you when we say goodbye?

Yeah, well, it's first just super cool to think that Eugene Jarvis, the guy who created Robotron Defender and Cruising USA, one of the first games that I got to do the audio system for, just launched Cruzen Blast on Nintendo Switch. That is. Hell yeah. It's a circle of life. And if you played it, it's very much a Eugene Cruzen game. You know, probably just off the top of my head, I think Rampage is due for a reboot, right? I mean, I actually, I'll admit, I like the movie. I thought they did as good a job as you could do. And, you know, that one I think is due for a legit reboot. And, you know, there's probably some of those sports games that are due to come back.

I mean, it's just, it's awesome to think about how many hours we all spent playing, you know, NBA Jam, NFL Blitz. Even games that go back before that, like arch rivals, you know, which was one right when I first showed up. And love Hydro Thunder. Steve Rank was the leader on that one. and it really set the bar for graphics at the time, we're probably due for a good boat racing game. It's cool about what we can do with all the GPU ray tracing power that we've got now, water effects, all of that.

NFT boat racing game. Oh God. There you go. 100 boats put around an island. Matt, thank you so, so much. This has been an honor to have you. Like I said earlier, this has been a very fun conversation. Where can people find you and what should people

people be excited about this fall with Xbox? Well, we're just super excited that we've got such a great lineup, right? We've got Age of Empires 4 in 9 days. We've got 4th to Horizon 5, just a love letter to Mexico and probably the best racing game that's been made. Then we're going to round out the season with Halo Infinite coming up, which is just, you know, we're right in the thick of it, and it's shaping up to be awesome.

So with big thanks to all of our fans that have been with us since we started the summer with Flight Sim on console, Psychonauts 2, all the Minecraft updates, just super appreciate all the communities and the fans that we've got. And just after that, we've got more to come with plenty of stuff lined up for the 20th anniversary of Xbox also. Hell yeah, man. Thank you. Can't wait for any of it, especially Halo. Let's go. All right, Matt. See you later. Bye, Matt. What a fun time, boys. That's cool, right?

Just starts hanging out with the Xbox Game Studios. No big deal. Mike, what were you looking for? I was looking for my copy of Rampage because I was going to say, I was going to say, Matt Booty, please sign my copy of my copy. I knew that he was looking for a midway.

What are you trying to look at? I was like he's looking for a copy of Rampage. I was really hoping you were going for the ready to rumble box. I thought he was going Hydro Thunder. Because the Hydro Thunder on N64 was a blast. That was hell of funny, dude. That was really awesome. Shout to Jeff and Matt for taking the time.

And for you, Tim, for inviting me on to be a part of that and us to all share that awesome moment. That was really, really cool. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. As somebody who's deeply entrenched in the PlayStation ecosystem, I love Xbox so much. Like, it's all, like, actually talking to them. And the same thing with the Phil Spencer interview that we did a little bit ago. It's always so cool and fun to, like, hear them talk and hear them actually talk in a way that's very open and frank and, like, give actual real answers to ship.

So, like, not like PlayStation. We don't get to talk to PlayStation is my problem. Who's talking to us? No one's talking to us. I'm sure they're open to Frank, but like, let me talk to you. Jim, right? Just let me talk to you, Jimmy? Yeah.

So we still got some time here. I want to hang out with you guys, talk about what games you all been playing and all of that stuff. Real quick, I know we've talked to Metroid dread to Metroid dead, as they say. Well, bless, you recently beat it. I want to get your thoughts because it's definitely a game that I think a lot of people are surprised by. Yeah, it's one that I, I'm, I was excited for as a, this is a big Nintendo game coming out this year. And I'm going into it.

I was going into Metroid Dred as somebody who typically doesn't get sucked into Metroid games. You know, I've tried out the original Metroid. I tried out Super and I've tried out in Prime. And you just like get a little bit into them and I fall off pretty quickly just because historically I just don't think those are my type of games. But Metroid Dread was one where I was like, I want to try this out, one, because there's this excitement of, hey, this is the Nintendo game.

And then also coming off a review, reviews, I was like, Oh, I definitely got to check this out. People are absolutely loving this game. And so going into it, I had an interesting story arc with Metroed Dredd where in the first half, I want to say, I actually wasn't enjoying myself as much. And I think that comes from multiple things. I think part of it was I wasn't expecting how difficult the game was. I didn't realize that Metroid Dred was going to be one of the harder games this year.

And that ended up being like a love, hate sort of thing later on because I ended up really loving the bosses. And the bosses were definitely the most difficult part of the game. game. But the other thing was there are so many Metroid elements that this game I think stays true to, but in ways that for me, don't strike me as modern game design in the ways that like the big thing. And this is of course like a back and forth argument that I've had with people on Twitter. And I totally understand the fact that this is Metroid. The invisible, uh, or not the invisible walls, the destructible walls are a thing that I just was not able to get past in the first,

uh, half of it. I think the big part of that. for me has been the fact that I would often come across the breakable walls and not realize they're breakable and go, okay, this must be where I backtrack. This must be where I had to go back and figure out how to use my ability that I just got elsewhere in the map. And I'll do that and then get lost and then not remember where I was. And I wish the game, at the very least, either did a good job of pointing you in the right direction when you do decide to go off and explore or, you know, made those breakable walls or those moments a little bit more

telegraphed because, you know, they give you an ability, and spoilers for Metroid, you get abilities. They give you an ability to highlight where the breakable walls are. And they give you that like probably about halfway through the game. Once I got that ability, I was having

a great time with Metroid dread. I didn't realize that that was the specific thing that was holding me back the whole time is the fact that there wasn't any sort of telegraphing for where those things were. And so I would get lost, not figure out, not figure out where I'm supposed to go, look up a guide and go, oh, I blew up this wall, but it didn't blow up this other wall that drained the rest of the water. You know, stuff like that was really getting me in that first half. By the time I started to get into the second half and had way more abilities

and started to get a feel for the controls a bit more, even though the controls at the end of it never really fully sat with me either. By the time I did start getting used to that stuff. I actually started to really love the game, specifically in those boss fight moments. I think the game does such an excellent job of introducing boss fights where at first blush they feel like they're the most impossible thing ever and then you start to get a feel for how am i supposed to dodge this thing oh okay no there's there's a small opening here all they must they must want me to do this and you're like okay they definitely want me to do this okay i'm getting better and better at it as i go and then you get to phase two and then you get to phase three and there's something about that process that i really

love in a boss battle that feels half or maybe like a third solving a puzzle and then the other two thirds actually executing and actually taking this thing out. I love that and I think Metroid Dread does that masterfully. And by the time I got into that final boss, that final boss fight might be one of my one of my favorite boss fights I've done in years at the very least, if not like ever. I love, love, love that Metroid final boss. And that was one that was frustrating me for hours on end by the time I got to it on Sunday. It probably took me about three hours, I imagine, to beat that final boss. And by the time I actually got there, it felt like nothing I felt before, right? Like, it just felt great to be able to take that boss out and have that experience. And so, like,

overall, I ended up really digging the game at the end of it. But there are things here and there around, like, man, I understand that this is the franchise. I understand that Metroid is getting lost and Metroid is the breakable walls and Metroid is all these things but maybe part of it is that's not for me and I think the other part of it is like I played other Metroidvania's that do that stuff a little bit better or at least telegraph

where you're going a little bit better I think of something like Ori that divides its map into zones to where you're not really going to backtrack all the way to the other side of the map to get an ability that you're going to use all the way elsewhere usually things are pretty or a bit more truncated to kind of help you out with that kind of thing I wish Metroid would take cues from that and a few other Metroidvanians, but overall,

I still had a really good time with it. Yeah, I love that, man. I'm right there with you. I think a lot of your criticisms are ones that me as a very, very, pretty much as early as you get Metroid fan. Like, I think that they're very, very apt, very true, but I'm right there with you with the final boss of man. Like that is something that's going to sit with me for a very long time. Like not because it itself is necessarily that memorable or anything.

I think it just builds so well to get to it that there's a moment in the game, like I would say about two-thirds through, that from a boss on, you're just learning to face the final boss. And I think that that's something that I haven't experienced in a game ever to that extent of like, wow, they really made me feel helpless with a boss fight three hours ago that I've had similar boss fights now four or five times. And every time I feel helpless in the beginning, but I learn one little thing that by the time I get to the final boss, I'm like, oh shit, got to add all those things. things together, but it's awesome. And it feels so good, as well as the ending just being incredibly. There's a certain phase in that final boss that feels like it lasts forever. Forever. And I have so much respect for the designers of that boss, I specifically going, hey, we're not going to let the player skirt by this boss. You're not going to win this accidentally. You're not going to stumble into beating this boss. You're going to get an A plus on this

test and nothing less. Because if you don't know how to dodge each of their. moves perfectly, then you're just not going to get past it. And, like, that is my favorite thing about Metroid dread is, like, it is unrelenting in that stuff, in its boss fights. And, like, that for me, by the end of it, just was so satisfying to actually get and nail down and go through that phase for, like, four minutes straight and go, when the fuck is this going to end? And then finally getting through and then getting my ass kicked in the next phase, and

then have to do it all over again. That was fun. That was so special. I loved it. It's a game that I love despite all the issues I have with it. Yeah. And, like, the last night was just. me and Janet and arguing with Jeff Grubb about the jumping and how I hate the jumping in this game.

Oh, I hate you too. And he's an old man stuck in his ways, Andy. Don't argue with old men like Jeff Grub on Twitter, you know. I think it's so archaic and it needs to be it needs to be the standardized way of jumping that any other game has ever, ever had. You tap A to jump. You tap A to hit the double jump. And you shouldn't have to be hitting right or left to do it because that's just how double jump in works, you know.

But in this game, you hit A and then if you're not moving laterally, you hit A, you hit the, or not B, whatever the fuck we're calling it in these days. You hit jump again and then you turn into ball form. And the amount of times that I've died because of that and just, I'm just

so wired with any other game and how double jumps have worked since the beginning of my video game playing days. I found that very, very frustrating. along with some of what Bless was mentioning with the breakable walls and I ended up, I haven't, I think I'm pretty close to the end. I ended up stumbling upon the item that lets you see secrets and see what areas are breakable, because there is an item like that that I thought I would have gotten it after the game ended,

but then I ended up kind of just exploring a bit and, a very risky exploration because I don't know how the fuck I'm supposed to get back to where I'm supposed to be. And I don't, that's another kind of annoying thing is that I love Hollow Night for the, the amount of fast travel. And it's not even that it's insanely convenient. There are many times in Trouble Night or in Hollow Night, we're like, God damn, the fast travel point is way the fuck over there. Let me make this trek. It's going to take me about, you know, five to ten minutes just to get over to that spot. And that's fine.

I just like the ability to be able to fast travel to wherever I want, as opposed to this goes to here, this goes to here. Teleportation here, right, the tram to that place. That's the stuff that has been a little bit frustrating for me. But I still think it's really smart in that you, I feel like I'm constantly still discovering things, even if I'm going to a spot that I didn't really want to go to. And I realize, oh, shit, I have this other ability that I haven't got back to over here yet.

and you end up finding 10 missiles or whatever. Yeah, I have a lot of issues with this game, and I still think it's really damn good. Yeah, like, honestly, I felt like so many, so many aspects of the game made me, made me, or felt like they wanted me to hate the game, honestly. And, but despite that, you know, I ended up really digging in the end,

but I feel like what it needs is a kind of meeting in the middle where, you know, I don't think, oh, the way point isn't the answer, because that would defeat the whole purpose of Betroyd, it being in this game where you get lost and have to figure out, like, what is the next thing I'm supposed to do. I wish there was a, this is what the mate, this is where on the map the last major event happened.

So that way, if I do decide, oh, I'm going to backtrack or I'm going to explore or I'm going to see, I'm going to go far off and get lost and want to figure out my main path later. I don't feel like then I'm like, oh, shit, what was the main path? Like, where do I? I'll read the atom logs and I'll see what the last thing Adam told me. And usually it does a decent enough job. Who, I should have done that.

And it's mostly me looking. to see what Adam last said and what place he told me to go. Catalina, wine mixer, wherever the fuck. Let me go over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me go explore that area because apparently that obviously has some meaning. And that's where the fire and lava is powering the blah, blah, blah, or whatever. I just think it needs to be modernized by like 5 to 10%.

Honestly, yeah, 7% modernization. it would make it a debatably 10 out of 10 experience. But yeah, there's just certain things. Like, yeah, even with what we're talking about about like, you know, blessed time about like the waypoints and stuff of maybe that'd be too much. Like just making the map a little bit easier to follow and understand of like where you've been, where you're trying to go. There's just so many elements.

And like that's classic Metroid. But I think that classic Metroid evolved in so many ways in this game, in terms of just mobility of Samus. And I'd like to see that a little bit more with the map stuff. I do think Andy to your point about the fast travel, I like how it's done in this game because I think the level of design is extremely concise where I never felt when you're looking at the map

it might seem super far away, you can still get there in a minute and a half, especially as you start powering up. And I actually found traversal of the map a lot more fun than I found it in Ori where there were multiple times in Ori, which I fucking love. But there were multiple times where I was like,

oh, fuck, I need to get there. I just don't want to. to do that. I have to, but I don't want it. Whereas in Metroid, I had that moment looking at the map. And then I quickly learned, oh, it's never that bad. Like, you're just going to be going through. And, like, there's always, you're getting more missiles.

You're getting your stuff. And like, there is so many things to find in the game that I was always kind of rewarded for, not even going out of my way, going in my way, even though I didn't want to go in my way to begin with. But, yeah, that's, that's, I'm very happy that you guys feel this way about the game, because it makes me feel not crazy because I'm just like, you know, I am a Nintendo fanboy. I am a Metroid fan boy, but I'm still playing this and I'm like, why does the jump feel like this?

Like I know it did. I know I understand why it does. I don't like it. And like I like that you guys are kind of in the same place as me because every once in a while, I feel like I'm just insane. I thought I was insane a little bit. Like last week I tweeted out. I was like, man, you know, like shout out to like the reviewers who played this out of

guide because I'm getting so lost. And I had some way of people that are like, have you not played Metroid before? and I'm like, I play plenty of Metroidvanias. And like I've played a little bit of various Metroid games. I understand what Metroid's supposed to be. But like you can't, you can't tell me that like this is perfect. This is great. And now that I finish it, I'm like, okay, I see where they're going with this thing.

But yeah, there's like that six to seven percent right there of modernization that I think would make this thing pristine in a way that I'm looking forward to the next, what's the name of the studio? Mercury. Mercury Steam. I'm looking forward to the next Mercury Steam Metroid. I really hope they get another shot because, you know, I think they've captured something here. This is so fun. They better add at least like, we better evolve to grow seven more fingers or they add eight more buttons because God damn. Oh, that was the other thing I was going to say, dude.

And I like, I don't want to give any spoilers for like final boss or whatever. But like, man, that final boss really tests you on how well, you know, all the different things that you can do. How well have you memorized all of the button inputs that you have to figure out? inputs, which by the end of the game, and I guess this, this comes back to modernization, would a weapon be, would a weapon wheel be bad for this game? Because I'm like, dude, y'all could have put in a weapon wheel on this thing and help me out a lot. Because, yeah. I don't know about weapon wheel, but I do think that, like, at the very least, they should have

had customizable buttons because that would have went a long way for me. They should have been able to map things so that it's just one button instead of multiple button inputs. Like, they should give you that flexibility because there are so many, so many different abilities that not everyone's going to use equally. So allow me to replace one of the just the face buttons with something I'm going to be using constantly. Like that it was just improved so much. My LBs and my LZs and all in R and RZs,

those get so much work in this game. So much work. And in the final boss, there was a phase in there where like you kind of have to do some counter shit. And I missed my counter like three times in a row because my brain was just going through so many things of figuring out like, all right, no, is he going to do this?

oh no he's probably gonna do this oh fuck what is the button to like a counter again oh shit and i was hollering by the time i actually beat the boss and like i wish i should have saved my gameplay it was it was tense it was epic but it was cool because of that too the last couple of emmy um fight encounters encounters were just maddening i i had lost so much of the fun in that and a lot of it is get good and a lot of it is also why is this the button combination for this one ability that I'm supposed to remember and it's not something

it's something that I've done five other times in my however many hours with the game but for some reason like I don't know why it makes zero sense to do the mega blast Omega blast yeah honestly I don't think you are on the show with me

I forget what show it was but like that just shouldn't be a thing in this game. Why is it? It's unnecessary. It's another set of button combinations for something that only happens a handful of times. And I'm right there with you. It's confusing. It's not the end of the world, but it's a detraction from the experience for sure. Like, just let me have some charge beans. Let me just shoot this thing normally. Yeah, especially when you have finally figured out kind of the right routes to take in order to get enough charge in there. And it takes like, again, you're, it's just, you're holding on three buttons, but they, they are so rarely used that

it's kind of hard for me to remember and to get to that point and be like, I got to fucking do all this again. Like, I'm, like, the last few Emmy encounters where I thought just extremely unfun. And even when I did it, I felt no sense of like, hell yeah, I was just like, fucking thank God. I'm done with this bullshit. Like, I just take me to the parts where I'm dying because I'm getting outskilled by, you know, I didn't, I missed that one jump and.

damn, I should have hit that. And like, though, I'd rather die there. I have fun with that. I feel like I'm getting better. The Emmy encounters just felt like a chore that, again, I said this on the last podcast, Mike, how mad an in NFL blitz, you could just hit A to hit a field goal. And you just move on. Like, let's just pretend I killed the Emmy.

I don't want to fucking do it. It's zero fun. It's add on top of that. Because I think it's either one or two encounters with the Emmys of just like the underwater encounters with some of the Emmys. means, just like to add under the 6, 7%, we just got to leave underwater level design behind and, like, how those physics work, because it's never fun. And I know that, like, there are Metroid fans that have, like, responded to me of, like,

no, there's a point for that. And I've gotten to that point where it's, like, it's no longer a problem to be underwater. But, like, all that does is remind me of, for, like, throughout the rest of the game of, like, how much shit it feels like to control any character underwater with underwater physics, and it's dumb. And we just need to leave it behind in all video games. No more water in the future. Barrett is here with a natural water.

No water. No, no. No. Too slow. Way too. For a game that, like, where you constantly want to feel like the movement and the momentum, it, like, it becomes way too slow underwater and it's maddening. So here's my thing.

I would rather the limited underwater stuff in this game than even more rooms that you open. It's like, oh, it's too cold. Oh, it's too hot. I don't got my jacket on. You know, it's like, at least, it's like, all right. I'm sweating out here. I can't wait for metric time. I already couldn't wait for it because those games seem really cool.

But now that I play Metroid Dread, I'm like, dude, I want to play the first, the trilogy, like, give me that. Why haven't we gotten that yet? But also, yeah, I can't wait for the future of that because that's the UND. Two things there, man. Playing through Metroid Dread on the switch, both in the OLED handheld and then just on TV the entire time, I was like, holy crap, I can't believe a Metro game looks this good. I can't believe that it is this cinematic and epic and holy fuck. This is what I've always envisioned this being. Kind of almost.

Why the fuck does Nintendo not just have better tech? Like, imagining this with like a PS5 or an Xbox series X is like it pains me. But even then it's like, okay, prime though. Holy shit, man. Like this in 3D, this type of design and understanding of like the Metroid gameplay applied to 3D in a modern age with the amount of updates that we, We've seen Dread have compared to Fusion and prior. What will Metroid Prime 4 look like compared to Metroid Prime 1?

I'm super excited. I still think at the end of the day, we're going to be having the exact same conversation we're having here of 7% of modernization would help it even more. But I'm excited and I'll take it. And I hope it actually comes out at some point. Yeah. Again, I just want to reiterate for the people that are eventually going to come for our throats. This is still a very, very good game.

Like, it's okay to have criticism about something you love. And this game, I think, would probably be my game of the year if it didn't have those smaller issues. And maybe if I cared about the story a little bit more. But, like, I didn't care about the story. I still think, like, mechanically, this game is so damn fun. And I love Samus. And I, again, as somebody who didn't, I played the prime, the Metro Prime games at Cousins' houses on their game cubes. and I played old Metroid games

when I was a kid and have no recollection of any of them I have loved my time with this game overall and I think it's definitely like a top 10 for me Can't believe we hate this game. Can't believe we all hate this game. It sucks. A funny thing about the story stuff is I ironically I actually think that the story is worse for you guys

that are not Metroid like fans because you think it's more than it actually is. It is so bare bones. It is so limited. Like, even if you knew everything about the other games, it's like, it's not like I'm reacting. Like, I think this game was incredible story-wise for what it did.

The choices it's made. There's a couple of moments like, fuck, this is so hype. But like, I could probably get you to that level in five sentences to get there. You know what I mean? But like, like, I just think going into it, they present these things. Yeah. As if they're like these like, holy shit. I wish I knew all this lore from the last 10 games.

It's like, yeah, that lore is, it's not much. It just kind of is what it is. It's just kind of cool, like, without spoiling. I'm not going to lie. I assume that I was jumping into the third Mass-Fed game. I was like, there must have been so many, like, so many epic stories before this because this seems like they're trying to do a lot here. Oh, I mean, like, honestly, it's like, and this is spoilers for fucking 20-year-old games.

I'm not spoiling dread at all. But it's like, really in Metroid 2, there is this baby Metroid that you save. It's the last Metroid. and then in Super Metroid, it starts. The last Metroid is in captivity. And Sam is trying to take that Metroid on. It's those little elements that, like, they even tell you in like the previously on in this.

Like, there is nothing else you really need to know. And it's just kind of like the hype of it all as it happens and the moments and like the things that you can kind of fill in as when certain things happen in this game. Like, okay, that's cool as fuck. But anyways, any closing thoughts on Metroid dread? Glad I played it. I feel like we've talked about this like so many times.

10 million fucking time. Yeah, it's great. It's a good ass game. No, here's the thing. I feel like it's a game worth talking about a lot because there's a lot to talk about. There's a lot of criticism we had, Andy. I think you nailed it. It is such a fantastic game, but like it is not perfect.

And I love that it can mean equal things to someone like me that loves the franchise and someone like y'all that want to love the franchise, want to know, but this is your first entry. And the fact that both of us have very similar criticism, I think goes a long way to explain what this game is. Oh yeah. The obsession of sci-fi and bounty hunters and Sammas looking so dope and unlocking different color schemes of costumes and wishing that I had a cooler color scheme when I had the red one because that shit looks old, like old color scheme old. And then you get the final ones like, God damn, dude. This is fucking fire right now, man.

I'm starting to realize that like the thing I just love about this game is mainly the boss fights. Because for me it is, Samis just beaten ass in this game is the coolest shit ever. When you finish a boss fight and she like finishes them off or later you have a random cutscene where she treats treats aliens like they're just whatever. Coolest shit ever. She is so cool effortlessly. You know what the coolest shit ever is, guys? To end the show, I want to time on one game. I teased it earlier.

No, no, no, no, no. That was fair. I got them in earlier. Sora is in Super Smash Brothers. I can't fucking believe it. It's here. This morning downloaded the final Super Smash Bros. Smash Brothers Ultimate Update, version 13.

The final spirits are here. Sora is here. The new stage is here. The new music. All of that stuff. I played through the classic mode. I played an hour of just Sora in general. Got some thoughts on it.

I just can't believe this is fucking real. Blessed, did you get any time with Sora at all? No, not yet. I can't wait. We have a stream that we're going to do on Thursday, I believe between me and Mike that we're going to do the Sora smash stream. And I cannot wait to get my hands on him. I'm very, very excited.

Dude, just to let you know. It is not necessarily what you expect it to be, but it totally is if you have the right mindset. Sora plays very similarly to the way Sora plays in Kingdom Hearts where it is floating as fuck. So it's MUTU, but it's so you what, yeah, I know. So wrap your head around it, wrap your head around it. That makes sense.

A sword play, a sword fighter, Mew 2, where it is very floaty. It is a lot about stay out of the air unless you know exactly what you're doing. When we watched the reveal of it, I was getting a lot of bayoneta vibes, mainly based on the right B move of a lot of chain combos and stuff. And it is less bayoneta and more mutu for sure. Having said that, Sora is awesome. There was a lot of really cool, unique gimmicky things, just like a lot of the DLC characters have had where it's like,

cool, let's take the smash formula and add something different. With Sora, he has the different elemental abilities where here you see he's using Faraga, and then it changes to Thundaga. Every time you stop hitting B, it'll switch automatically to the next one through Thindaga, Blizaga, and Faraga. But what's cool with them

is it kind of like keeps you on your toes of thinking about like what the best strategy is to move forward. And what's really cool with Sora is unlike most characters, he can actually do a move after his up B. You know how normal smash characters you up be and you kind of just like fold down to you're fucked.

You can't do most moves but you can go from an upbee. to a right be. So his getting back to a stage ability is fucking insane. I mean, yeah, we just saw it right now. It looked like he should have failed at least three times. It is crazy, man. Like there is a lot of movement ability for sure.

But it's very easily telegraphed. So that's the thing that I think there's a good balance there. And his on the ground moves, they're cool. His smashes are fine. A lot of just normal what you'd expect from him would up, smash down smash, like that type of stuff. But really what makes SOR special is just all the Kingdom Hearts elements, man. Playing through the classic mode, just like any new character's classic mode, it's designed

around the character. They try to, like, theme it to fit right with the universe. And this being the final one in Super Smash Brothers, I love it because it is so Kingdom Hearts. Playing through the classic mode, it's stamina mode. So it's like, instead of knocking people off the stage, you are just classic health style going down, just like a more action RPG type game. and the dumb gimmicky things they do

of like to make it seem like Soros facing off against the heartless where like one of the matches will be you versus a horde of Mr. Gaman watches. It's just fucking awesome. It's things like that that I'm like damn like y'all really cared.

Another one you're facing off against three robins from Fire Emblem which are you know, the dudes in the hoods. They look like organization 13 and the whole time Kingdom Hearts music's playing and I'm just like, how is this real? How the hell is this real? And it's this fun to play and this good,

this much of a celebration of video games and Kingdom Hearts and Smash Brothers and all of it and it ends. You play it through classic mode and when it gets to the Smash credits, you know how there's that mini game where you're like shooting all the names coming down. The gummy ship music's playing from Kingdom Hearts and it's

like you're in a fucking gummy ship and all of a sudden I'm 12 years old again playing Kingdom Hearts one. It's fucking fantastic everybody. Let's go. I can't believe Soros and Smash. I can't believe they pulled it off this well. And I can't believe he's fun to play. That's the last thing is like we got a great Final Smash character.

I was going to ask that, is he good though? Like, is he a character that you think you're going to start using more often? Or is it more for you? Is it like, no, I like this gimmick, but it's not for me. Gimmick's not for me. I'm not a floaty guy. I'm way more. I like heavier characters.

But it is one of those characters that I want to learn to be good enough at that when I play random and I get him, I'm like, okay, cool. Not like, ah, fuck. Because there are our characters, we're like, oh, shit. I guess I'm here. I'm always turned off by like the changing between the three elements sort of thing. Like I wish they were just sort of dead. I wish the fire was just like the forward smash and the thunder was the down.

Like I wish they were just kind of dedicated moves or whatever. But the idea of switching between powers, the same with a lot of the other characters that have those gimmicks built into them. I've always just been kind of turned off by them because I don't really, I don't know. It just feels weird. It feels weird. I'm with you. and it adds an element of kind of understanding and forethought that like or foresight that's not necessarily like the most fun when it comes to smash brothers and you normally don't really have that time to like think about what you want to do this reminds me of like brawl uh with Pokemon trainer where after a certain amount of time you would have to switch the other characters that fucking sucked i'm so happy and ultimate they got rid of that idea you can just play as whichever Pokemon you want as long as you want the difference here andy is and i was pleasantly surprised because i'm right there with you with you with you you usually not liking this stuff, is the way that it works.

It's kind of like if you're doing one of the attacks, it can go as long as you want it to. Like for the fire one, if you keep tap and B, you'll keep shooting the fire. It's once you stop hitting B that it switches to the next thing. So you have a level of control of keeping it where you want it more than some of the other characters. And since there is always three things that cycling between and since those three things always go in the same order, you're always like two cycles away from getting back to where you necessarily want to be. And they're attacks that happen quick enough that at least in my experience, I was surprised

that I was like, okay, I don't hate this as much as I do with characters that have similar mechanics kind of like Robin or Hero and things like that. Mike, you more a fireaga guy or a Thundaga guy, Mike? Yeah, man, you know, I like Earth Daga is right? When he said that any of my mind, I was like, is he making shit up? Like, this is unbelievable. I really wanted to pause and be like, do you think this is a real thing, Mike? Maybe I've not played any final fantasy ever.

Let me tell you, man. It'll be a cure, right, to your soul. Look at Mike and think to yourself. Yeah, that man's definitely played a final fantasy. A little blizzaga, Mike. He's started saying that Andy and I, in my mind, I was like, don't say anything, Mike. Just don't say anything. Let him have his moment.

I will say, Tim, I share your hype because as Andy will know, I like when new smash characters come, because that means I get them. I don't have to unlock them like all the other ones. I just get them. So I get sore. I'm pretty excited about that. I think that Mike's home page or his like character select screen on Smash is all the default

characters and then all the DLC characters. I mean, dude, yo, like jokes aside, looking at the character select screen this morning, like the final character select screen, how vast it is. Almost a hundred characters. It's unreal, man. And like looking through them all,

I'm just like, holy shit. And I see all the little medals of like having yeah exactly I mean this straight up it's like Coachella in the old games but like seeing the medals of beating classic mode

with each of the characters I'm like God damn we have come a long way and for for sort of be the last one is really cool and they did such a good job with it the playing through classic mode like I was saying

it has all these like Kingdom Hearts ass moments but at some point you get to a level or one of the levels where you're on the Kingdom Hearts level And it's the beginning of Kingdom Hearts with like the church-esque. What are they even called?

The paintings that are like the glass paintings. Oh, like the stained glass. Stained glass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm just like chills head to toe. Like what the fuck? Kingdom Hearts music's playing. We're fighting on this.

I'm Sora fighting another Sora. This is just so perfect. So great. The one thing that I think is kind of interesting that I think a lot of people are going to experience as well in this week is playing. Detroit dread and then playing this game back to back throws you the fuck off because the jump button

and just the way you control the games look very similar. They do not control similar at all. So it took me a moment to be like, oh no, I'm back to playing smash. Like that's crazy. And then even playing Sora, earlier I was saying like it plays like Sora in Kingdom Hearts. And it very much does in terms of his jumps and moves and floatiness.

But it doesn't in terms of attacks where Kingdom Hearts is a lot about less precise strikes and more like you're swinging your sword and there's like yeah there's it's juggling there's a lot of the enemies around you area of attack type stuff and uh with this it there are moments where like you're you're hidden it's way more smashed than you

expect Sora to be where the attacks are directional and you're used to seeing Sora attack from the front but it's also hidden someone behind you it ain't doing that here so that's that required a little bit of mental blockage for me to get over um

trying to look at my notes here to see if I have any thing else to say oh the last thing this is the nerdiest thing mike i gotta fucking do it just for you though when he holds a sword or an item that is like a sword you know a lot of the characters already have a sword so when they hold another sword it's kind of goofy looking he goes into his valor form dual holding stance and i'm like that is such a little detail that is so unnecessary but so fucking cool that and also unlike most other characters uh in smash like when you're looking at the character select screen there's uh and you're like let's say you choose like Mario right you're going do all the different costumes Mario doesn't change but his costume changes there's rare

exception like Wario when he changes from his classic warrior outfit to his warrior wear outfit where like he has a different pose sore has a different pose for every single thing because it's like his pose from Kingdom Hearts 1 his pose from Kingdom Hearts 2 his Steamboat Willie pose and I'm like it's these dumb little things that make me just smile and like they They just fucking care so goddamn much. Everybody's mad that they didn't add Waluigi. I think the campaign we really need to push for is let Mike pay for all the characters. Let's do it.

Just do it. You need to call up Mr. Nintendo right now and tell him I got the million dollar idea. Unbelievable. I don't want to play the game to unlock the characters for a game that I'm never going to play. Let me pay. And with that, everybody, thank you so much for joining us for this kind of funny gamescast. What an amazing one. Hey, share this with all your friends. Share this with your people. Go post this on Reset Era.

Let's get it out there. We had Matt Booty. It was fantastic. After that, we had a lot of fun together talking about video games. Talk about Nintendo games, which makes me a lot of happy. It makes me very happy. Not a lot of happy. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. It's been a long day. Morgidly happy. Morgidly happy. Hey, hey, thanks for call me out. Okay. Shit happens, everyone.

Till next time, I love you all. Bye.