Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Kinda Funny Gamescast Presents: Andy Serkis

Episode Date: November 21, 2017

Greg Sits down with Andy Serkis and talks about , Planet of the Apes: Last Frontier, Movies and Nick Scarpino! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. It's me, Greg Miller, and this is a very special Gamescast Presents. It's a brand thing we just made up. I don't know. No, what happened is I went down to Sunny Los Angeles with one Kevin Coelho and Jean-Veuf Saint-Thang. She didn't do anything of this, though, to interview Andy Circus. That's right. Star stage and screen, all about Planet of the Apes Last Frontier, out November 21st. We talk about the game, performance capture, what got him into it. And then, of course, just his insane career as well. Do we talk about why Nick Scarpino hates him? We do. and then does Andy get mad at Nick? Maybe. Here he comes. I'm just saying, Circus, when you direct galaxy of the planet of the apes,

put Nick in it. No, you were never saying he was too talented. Ladies and gentlemen, here's this interview, enjoy it. This isn't sponsored. I mean, Last Frontier's out. I think it looks really cool and I think it's going to be good, so we'll see.

But I don't know yet because I haven't played it. What, Nick? If they do universe of the apes, let me just be a character. You don't, you've insulted the man for months on the show saying he's too talented, he takes all the good roles, and now you're going to try to be on it. Just watch. Ladies gentlemen, here's the interview.

As I live and brave, Andy Circus. Hello. How are you? I'm great. How you do? I'm great, man. Thanks for sitting down with us. Thank you.

Planet of the Apes. Last Frontier. Is it good? Because I want, as soon as you guys announced it, I thought this sounded awesome and looked awesome. Let's play a story from both perspectives, make choices, have them matter. Did it come together? Is it a good game? I think it's a really great game.

I hope so. I mean, I hope so. I mean, the great thing is it's taking the apes franchise and making it more immersive. It sits between the stories of dawn and war. So it's not just like, oh, here we are making a video game of the movie that you've just seen. It's a completely other universe, loads of different characters. And as you point out, you know, you can play both as humans. You can play both as apes.

It's a moral maze. It puts you very much in the decision. making. You can play as a group. You can play it. It's supported by PlayLink as well. Right on PlayStation 4, yeah. PlayStation 4 so you can play using your device.

Well, that's what's cool about it, right? And why I thought it was such a natural fit, is the idea that, hey, let's take what people love from the Walking Dead or choice-based games like that, bring it in and then make it a party game, where we all are sitting there voting on your phone. Because every time you play one of those games, you have someone next to you go, no, no, no, hit be, hit be,

and then that's what I wanted. Exactly, exactly. And that's exactly what it is. I mean, we didn't want to make a one, the first-person shooter. Sure. We wanted to make something that was a collective experience. And that thematically followed the line of the movie, which is about empathy, which is about, you know, about, you know, I'm going to be going through this story.

You can lead aggressively. You can lead cooperatively. You can choose to not wipe out your opposition, but try and collectively arrive at a peaceful decision. I think it very much follows the tone of the movies in that respect. Well, I love the idea of the fact that it's a movie, right? It's an Apes movie. It's in the universe. It's how it's supposed to be.

But you can replay it with a different group of people and get a completely different reaction than what you had the first time. That's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. So how does this happen for you and Imaginarium? How do you guys get involved with this? Did you know you always wanted to do video games? Is that something you wanted to be a part of? Well, yeah.

I mean, interestingly, the Imaginarium really came out of my experience of working on video games. So back in 2004. I'd just come back from making King Kong with Peter Jackson. And I arrived home thinking what's might be my next move and I was approached by a UK-based games company called Ninja Theory. Oh yeah.

Who were starting to make a game called Heavenly Sword. Of course. They asked me if I would direct the performance capture for it because Tammy Mantagnadi's who was the CEO of the company and creative lead there said I've really feel like we've arrived at a time where performance

and script and storytelling is becoming part of the video game world. And coincidentally, I really started to become interested in it because my kids were starting to play games. And I just thought, look, we spend so much time in the movie world, perfecting scripts, perfecting story, pouring so much energy into making this the best storytelling experience. Why shouldn't it be the same in games?

And why is there this strange attitude towards cutscenes? Because I wasn't a gamer at the time, but it's just like people had explained it to me, you're like, no one watches cutscenes, nobody cares. Skip, skip, skip, skip, just fire through it. And at that time, I thought, well, people probably don't watch those because they're not emotionally engaging, or their scripts aren't very well written,

or you don't really care about the characters. And that was what, that's where it's where it sort of came from, this desire to get involved in storytelling. So we, and I wanted to approach it like a movie. So we rehearsed with our actors, we, and this all sounds very old hat now, but in fact it was sort of groundbreaking at the time. Well, I mean, like, if people don't

remember, Heavenly Sword, a PlayStation 3 exclusive, when it was coming out, it was tip of the sort of like, oh, the graphics are on such another level. This was, as we started to see stuff from uncharted. It was, where are we going to push this, where it can be more than just what God of War was, which was a great game and great action, but we can tell a story in it. Right, right. So it was a really beautiful start, a really brilliantly written script. And then the whole casting process, rehearsing process, it was just like you would do for a movie or even a play, actually. We got really deep deep. into character with everybody.

And then when it came to shoot it, there was nowhere to shoot it in the UK. So I had to take the whole team back to New Zealand to Weta. And so they ended up making their first video game. And we ended up, you know, having the expertise of the world's leading

performance capture people at the time. So when I came back to the UK after that experience, I thought, that is nuts. You know, well, we've got to, I've got to create somewhere in the UK, which can be a sort of a, a creative hub for next generation storytelling.

And on my sort of business plan, I wrote, I want to make all of Shakespeare's plays as video games. That was the idea. Just rip off the grates, I love it. Yeah, yeah, you know. And there's got to be a way of doing it. So the Imaginarium came out of that idea. And I then worked on Enslaved, which Ninja Theory.

Another Ninja Theory game. Again, with Alex Garland writing this time. And he was then pushing the idea of, you know, Well, you don't necessarily have to have cutscenes. Why don't you have drama and gameplay happening at the same time? And so I became fascinated with that. Anyway, then we set up the imaginarium with a view to what our mantra was sort of next generation story telling.

It was using performance capture in all the emerging kind of new transmedia opportunity, like virtual reality and augmented reality and video game, of course, and trying to lower the costs of performance capture so that it wasn't just the remit of big blockbuster movie fair. Yeah. So that's where it all came from. And then the company started to expand, and we had this two-prong sort of attack,

which was pushing the art and craft to performance capture and then creating content as well. We then came into contact with a guy called Martin All Times, who worked with Disney on all their big franchise games. He came to work with us, And then when I started making the apes movies, we thought, well, what an extraordinary thing we could do if it's possible to get the rights to expand the ape's world and to tell an immersive story through, you know, a video game story. So with the apes world, in your involvement there, talk to me a bit about that. As a huge fan of the original Planet of the Apes of Movies, right, when it all started again, James Franco, we're doing this whole thing.

I'm like, okay, great, yeah, this is awesome. I didn't realize obviously, well, it was old back then, but it was in the 2000s. You know it's going to be multiple movies, right? But I didn't sit there and think of, oh, it's an Apes World, it's an Apes franchise, it's going to be transmedia, it's going to do all these different things. When you start on that first one, do you know what's going to be that? Is that the plan forever? No, not at all.

I mean, I was set in the script. I was blown away by the script. I mean, I like everyone, probably thought, you know, really another planet the apes movie. I mean, I loved you. Have we not learned our lesson? Yeah, and the previous one wasn't, you know, so great. Yeah. But I read the script and it was just mind-blowing.

It was just a beautiful piece of writing, a great character. And the Ark, Caesar's Ark was just phenomenal. This orphan chimpanzee who, you know, he's brought up by humans who then, you know, discovers himself to be an ape. And then through having had the experience of empathising with humans is able to empathise with all different kinds of apes and lead them to freedom. was just, you know, it was an extraordinary thing. But I didn't know it was going to go any further than that. And then when Matt Reeves came on board and started to evolve the second and the third film,

the Caesar journey just became something else. You know, it just became this, you know, this wonderful opportunity to play a character from birth to death and go through all these extraordinary... I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm going. to late maturity. And then, you know,

but to go through all of these huge changes. Yeah. And, you know, as his family, you know, as his extended family becomes a movement. And, you know, he becomes the founder of this tribe.

Yeah. And then into this last movie, which becomes a personal journey of revenge. So it was a, so I became increasingly involved with it. And then, And it was, as I say, whilst we were shooting war,

that we thought, I wonder if we can make a, you know, expand. Obviously, to get back to the original 1968 version, there's still a lot of storytelling. There's still a lot of storytelling potential. Yeah, oh yeah, totally. Well, that's what I love so much about the idea of the game, and when it got announced was, okay, first off, you're playing in my wheelhouse of,

let's tell you an awesome video game story, let you make the choices, let's have them matter. But it was the idea that, all right, cool, this isn't Caesar story. These are apes who have gone up into the mountains. Now they're starving. They need to start coming down. They start hitting into humans who are having the same problems and what happens there.

And you get to tell a story in a world that, yeah, has had this virus breakout, right? And kill most of humanity. What does that look like? And then it also opens it up to, man, there's so many other interesting stories to tell, I bet, happening around the world, not even just the country. Correct. Yeah, exactly. So you can make a lot of games here.

I hope so. Yeah. So what was the biggest challenge then for? making Last Frontier. I mean, it was really, tonally, to make sure that it was, it felt in the same wheelhouse as the movies, that we,

that, you know, we were working fantastically, we were able to work with Unreal and an epic, you know, and their rendering is just so incredible, as we all know. So we were very, very happy with that. But it was just putting all those pieces together and then finding the right writing team,

finding, you know, Martin was, he formed a company called the Amanda, which is an offshoot, a sort of sister company in the Imaginarium. We shot it in our studio. But he was very much responsible for finding the director. And obviously I was sort of keeping an eye on it. As ambassador of the franchise, the movie franchise, I was sort of keeping an eye on it.

It's lucky you have so much free time that you could oversee these projects. I mean, you're doing nothing else. Well, you know. I don't like twiddling my thumbs. Yeah, exactly. Well, apparently, you don't like sleep either. I'd imagine.

You're just bouncing around a bit doing all these different things. things. So then what is your hope for the game? Like what do you hope players get out of it? Well, I really, you know, as we did for the movies, that people will become emotionally engaged and it causes debate. And, you know, there is a sort of, it continues that the social commentary, zeitgeist sort of feel of looking at the notion of other and how you cope with other and how you choose to either make it work or sow the seeds of our own destruction quite sure sure so then you talked about it you know that you're the brand ambassador for apes right going for you where does this

journey start where you become literally like oh they're going to use they're going to make a CG character and he's going to play him because I feel like it's just it's gone like I work with this guy his name is Nick Scarpino right he's a lovely man he does not like you he says he says you're too talented that you get too many jobs that you just just we're just But it's true. Hey, we're going to do this. We're going to make King Kong. Hey, we're going to make Planet Davis.

Hey, we're going to have a Gala. Hey, it's always you. And now, on top of it, you being too talented in the CG roles, you're now coming over into the Black Panther movie being a real. It's just, I agree with Nick to an extent you're doing too much. I worry about your health. But where does that start where you become the guy for a motion capture work? Well, gosh.

I mean, look, I was really lucky and I had amazing time being at the sort of the beginning stages of making, the tipping point between visual effect becoming character which was with Gollum and that journey was in a phenomenal journey. But I thought that was coming to an end at the end of Return of the King and I thought I'd be going back to my life as I mean I'd already started to want to erect

so I knew that that was something that I was heading towards doing. But I thought I'd go back to be doing theatre and TV and film and what an amazing experience Lord of the Rings was and literally in the final throws of finishing Return of the King, Peter Jackson asked me to play King Kong and I was like, I'm sorry

what? And he said, yeah, we want to use the technology to now to bring Kong to life. And I'm like, well, I mean, look, I understand why Gollum works. I mean, he, you can read what Gollum's thinking because he doesn't stop talking to himself.

And, you know, you can figure out what he's but Kong, how do we make that work? You know, but and then I realized and it was this huge kind of epiphany moment, which was you know, really up until that point, I thought that was a one-off experience. Now I'm playing, you know, I've now played a three and a half foot ring

junkie and now I'm going to be playing a 25 foot gorilla. It's the end of typecasting. Yeah. As we know it. Yeah. So that was for me the point where I go, there's more, there is a lot more mileage in this technology and God, if I can play all these things, then it means that any actor can actually play anything. Sure. Regardless of, and I got very impassioned by the idea philosophically that actors can, regardless of their height, size, their color, their skin, their age, their sex, they can literally embody anything.

And that's what's fired me up. And then that sort of went on into, as I say, coming back and then the video game world opening up and then the imaginarium idea, that concept of, you know, creating storytelling and other, you know, transmedia arenas, you know. So you talk about, you know, the jump from it being visual effects. to character-driven pieces. Yeah. That was a light bulb moment for you.

Yeah. How long in, you know, Ghalm to Kong to so on, do you think it took for other actors or Hollywood to wake up to that? Or were they there and I'm just being... No, I think it took a long time. In the same way that, you know, the film industry had a very disparaging view of video game world, you know, it sort of took time to... I remember when we were casting Heavenly Sword, you know, it's just like, oh gosh, do

we could get so-and-so, do you think they'd come and do this? I mean, it's only a video game. You know, it was very much that attitude. Whereas now, it's just like people are dying to be in video games because the scripts are great. The characters are really exciting. You know, you're part of something fresh and new and you're able to expand as an actor into another arena.

So it has no problems attracting A-star talent now, the video game world. And you would know better than me. I feel like when I talk to the actors who excel or come, excel in voice acting or come over from movies to do this. The ones that do the best added are the ones that have either a theater background or just that drive to do that. Because there is so much of it of, I'm in the ping pong ball suit and I'm picking up this wooden rob that's now a rifle, right? Do you see that of like people want that creativity again? Yeah, they do. Yeah, absolutely. I think there is a real, you know, I mean, film acting

is fantastic and the subtlety of it. But what people didn't realize is that you can have that subtlety and be something else and be other, you know. I mean, I mean, I mean, and the I mean, you know, you look at War of the Planet the Apes, and 50% of that movie is in close-up. It's the subtlety with which now an actor's performance can be rendered, you know, on another physiognomy is extraordinary. So that is what is becoming appealing. And so when it came to, for instance, casting Jungle Book, the one that I'm doing, you know, people were really up for it. People were really excited, you know, Christian Bell was really excited about the prospect of becoming a peasant. Panther or Benedict Comebatch becoming a tiger or Cape Blanche becoming a snake, you know.

And so it's now no longer a sort of big gamble. Yeah, unless that, right, or what an extraordinary exciting potential opportunity and a real interest in trying to broaden their scope, you know. So where does that leave you? How do you broaden your scope when you're already so broad? Like, what do you want to do? What do you still want? I mean, is it every project's different? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's always story-driven. It's always kind of like, you know, as an actor or as a director now, you know, it's kind of, you know, what excites me, what do I feel a real strong personal connection with? I mean, if it's, you know, a script and a part, then it's, you know, it can be small. It can be a cameo in something, or it can be, but it's got to mean something. Is that how you pick your roles? Yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so, very much so, yeah. And then in terms of directing, it's like, what am I passionate enough about that I'm going to live with this for four years, five years, you know, before I see it come to fruition?

And I suppose there are lots of different things going on at the moment. And the next thing we're developing once Jungle Books finished is Animal Farm, George Orwell's Animal Farm. But, you know, looking further into the future, I kind of think I'm really looking forward to now that performance, just sits in this really interesting space with all of these different stories new story telling platforms you know as a say virtual reality and augmented reality thinking what well where are we going to be in 20 years time what what is the next new way that's the terrifying thought you know collective experience yeah or or singular experience but but and so we're

trying to we're trying to figure that out at the imaginary you know or sort of you know find a way into that yeah do you where do you come down on, you know, a lot of people talk, hi, how are you? A lot of people talk about how movies and video games and TV and internet and everything, YouTube are competing for the same mind share, right? As someone who's got a foot in just about everything, do you see a convergence point? Do you see movies falling away and video games coming up? Video games like Lost, Last Frontier coming out and being the thing that like pushed that medium forward and kind of combined it all? I do think we've yet to discover a new collective experience.

I mean, that is a combination of those things. And I don't think they're exclusive. I think they're actually, they're all looking for how they can join, actually, and converge. I think that the convergence thing is true. And, you know, so, as I was saying, you know, we worked with the Royal Shakespeare Company on this production of The Tempest early in the year and had this actor in a motion capture suit, and we did the first sort of live performance capture actor on stage, projecting real-time avatars in a Shakespeare play.

And so then that leads you on to think, well, if you can do that, then when you have mixed reality glasses on, then you can have real actors, you can have performance-captured characters in the same space. So I see as a sort of a convergence of theatre, cinema, film, and an immersiveness of video game. Something's yet to happen.

But a combination of all of those things and truly performance capture sits in the middle of it. Yeah, it's going to be fascinating, right? I mean, you feel like, I think video games are in such a different spot than they were 10 years ago. And it is that people understand that they can go there, they can have a movie experience,

a story experience, tied to movies, and get any range of emotions they want from it. And then as you see, AR, VR, enter the fray now, it becomes that thing. We're trying to use it for games, but how could you use VR to put you into a seat at a symphony in Paris or a play in New York on Broadway.

How do you make any of that go? That's what I don't think we've figured out yet. No, no, no, no. But I think there's something to do with kind of like, certainly without being photoreal, there's a virtualized way of creating story that you can sit right in the middle of in 360, which, you know, and I'm going back to the Shakespeare thing.

You know, I really want to do that. I really like to have you where you can see the, So you can be in the play as different characters, and you can switch characters and see the world from a different point of... Yeah, no, totally. That's fascinating. That's a good idea. So that, for instance, is somewhere I'd like to take it.

Gotcha. What's the first step for that? How do you get to that point? Just find the time? Well, yeah, and the finance. But that's all it takes, isn't it? It's just the first one to get going, and then it happens.

But I'd like to do it in a kind of, conventional way. I mean, I'd like to rehearse it as a play and then direct it in 360 and turn the characters, the actors into avatars, and then literally direct it in 360 as a piece. I'm telling you, you've got to get some sleep at some point, though. You can't just keep running around doing all these crazy ideas. Now, there's a little boy

who watches our content all the time. He lives over in England. His name is Mike Biffle. Mike. Now, Mike, makes video games every once in a while. You were in one called Volume. Really? I don't know if you remember this game, Volume. You were in it?

I do. Yes, okay, okay, Mike isn't a little boy. He's a grown man, he's won a whole bunch of wars and stuff. Doesn't matter. But one of our, when I said I was in an interview with the audience, Mike's a popular personality that comes on in business as once in a while. So they were like, ask him about working on volume. And Mike was like, he won't remember.

He remembers mine. No, I do remember working on volume. Yeah. I really love playing those characters. It was great. Right. Yeah, okay, there you go. I just want to put that out there, Mike Biffel.

Don't worry. He always tells himself. He doesn't have the confidence. You know what I mean? Mike, have the confidence. Thank you very much. Now tell Nick Scarpino to go to hell. Nick Scarpino, if you ever say that about me again, you're in big trouble.

There we go, and that's what I like to hear. So, how do you, this is going back, we're snapping back, sorry, because you're so fascinating. We're so fascinating. We talked about directing where you want to go. When you go to be one of these characters, when you go to be one of these characters, when you go to be, you go to be, you go to be. Caesar when you want to go in to be in the Star Wars movie. Who are you

playing again? Snoke. And what was his backstory again? Supreme Really Snow. Well, actually, let me tell you all about it. Well, how do you get the face? That's what you're doing. But how do you go to get in the headspace? Because this, I mean, not to put, I mean, it's so weird right, for me as an outsider, that

you read the script, you understand the motivations, that's acting, sure. But then to go on set to be put into the ping pong ball suit to work maybe not even with the actors. Oh no, you always work with the actor. Okay, okay. Yeah, run me through with then. Yeah, like... I mean, the thing is, so you... So you... When you, when you start to create a character, it starts

on the page, you start to... I mean, I always approach it from a physical... I've always approached building a character from a physical point of view, because for me, physicality, emotion, emotions centres, emotional muscle memory, psychology, voice, character. They're all, obviously, intertwined. They're all, you know, so you start to extrapolate from the script.

it starts to, you know, you start to think about how your life kind of interacts with that character. However it is on the spectrum, whether you're reaching out for a character that's a long way away from you or something that's very close to you. So, or in the journey of Caesar, for instance, you know, I started off by looking out for inspiration and then it finally, as each movie came, moved along, it came closer and closer to me and my own personal journey. So then you go through this period of working with the avatar so that you go on to into motion capture volume and you have this rehearsal period

where you can literally see a grey shaded or simplified sort of version of that character And then you can start to move around and you're looking into what is in effect of magic mirror and you start to calibrate your movements and you start to go okay well if I slightly hunch over my shoulder here you know Gollum I think we can dial in it gollums shoulder so that it's slightly even more curved okay so that so that I can

go as far as I can go but we can make it look like it's going even further so you're learning to sort of puppeteer a marionette that you are literally having this relationship with in a mirror-like situation that that is part of the rehearsal process then of course you forget about all that because you encode all of that into your muscle memory sure and then you know what you're doing physically and then you're playing with your fellow actors. And then, for instance, in apes, we had these long improvised sessions

where we would do, you know, they were kind of ape camp, basically. And we'd do long, like improvisations that went on for three, three to four hours where we would be, some apes would be sign languageing to each other, some beginning to use ape vocalizations, some, you know, for Caesar was talking, using proto-human language.

And you do, you sort of discover as an organ, this kind of huge organism, how the hierarchy of the group works, for instance. So all of that then plays into turning over on set, the camera turns over, and you're working with the director, and you're shooting the scene very conventionally. Yes, you're wearing a performance capture suit,

but there's no difference between wearing a performance capture suit and a costume in a live action movie. That's what you wear to go to work. And you're in the moment, and you act with your fellow actors, and then, you know, that's what gets put into the cut of the movie. And Matt Reeves, for instance, well, you know, lives for months and months and months with my face, not Caesar's face, in the cut.

And he cuts the movie dramatically. You know, he has to. That's what is. That's where the drama's come from. And then finally, the visual effects start to come in, and it's an iterative process where he'll put Caesar's face up next to mine and their first pass of animation. And he'll go, okay, well, Caesar's really angry.

at this point, but there's also vulnerability in his eyes there. You can only see the anger, and they'll go back and they'll rework each shot. And sometimes there's like 120 iterations of each single shot until it's exactly replicates the emotional content of the performance that was given on the day. Final question. What kind of physical toll does that take on you? Like, you know, we're in the same boat here. We're not spring chickens anymore.

You know what I mean? You're over there, a hundred. Well, I mean, I got 10 years on you clearly, but I'm just saying, you're over there, you're doing this, you're all low, you're punching your back. It is physically demanding playing those kinds of parts. I mean, I have to say it was much harder playing the young Caesar, the young chimpanzee, because I was quadrupeding all over the place and had the energy of a young, you know, chimp. Whereas the great thing about Caesar growing older and growing more human-like, you know, I was able to, you know, give him more gravitas and have him sit down and the next movie. I know that well there won't be a next movie, but I always imagined at one point

that I'd have Caesar sitting, having a cocktail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Looking through the newspaper. Absolutely, yeah. Andy, you're a treasure. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, man. It's pleasure hanging out with you.

Remember, everybody, Planet of the Apes, the Last. I want to know, it's actually not it's, Planet of the Apes, last, last, Frontier. It's something about Lost that gets in there. No, I know what I'll do is I don't remember Last of Us because that's a story-dreaming game, and then I totally forgot about it. So Planet of the Apes, Last Frontier.

November 21st. Exactly. All right. Looking forward to it on PlayLink, PlayStation, all that jazz. Until next time, it's been our pleasure to serve you. So that was me interview

and Andy Circus. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope Planet of the Apes last frontier turns out because it seems really cool. Seems like something on my alley as you know. Also,

seems like an easy PlayStation 4th, platinum. Probably have to play it a bunch, but I'm down for that. You know, I'm getting into the weeds here. Out of the 21st of November. Hopefully it's great. If it's not,

we now know where Andy Circus lives. What's Kevin? Sorry, no, we don't. That was a hotel. that's not where he lives full time. So I can't really help you if it's not good. But I think it's probably, it looks, how could it go wrong?

Just playing and playing the names, making decisions, right? I don't know. I'm excited. If you liked it, like this video and or audio podcast you're listening to, send it out to your friends. Remember the Kind of Funny Gamescast posts each and every Friday early over on Patreon.

com slash Kind of Funny Games. You can get it a couple days later for free on YouTube.com slash Kind of Funny Games. No matter where you get any of our shows. Thank you so much you're caring about us. It's our pleasure to make content for you. No, until next time. It's been my pleasure. pleasure to serve you. Don't put Nick in any of the Planet of the apes movies, Andy. Don't,

don't, don't, don't cave into him.