Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Learning to Love Zelda Again, Destiny v. The Division - Kinda Funny Gamescast Ep. 20

Episode Date: May 21, 2015

What does Zelda Wii U have to do to win over Colin and Greg? A reader asks, we debate, and then, talk about if The Division is set to be the next Destiny. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome to episode 20 of the Kind of Funny Games cast. I'm one of your host, Greg Miller, alongside. He only does everything. Colin Moriarty. It's good to be here with you, not for you. I'm really tired. Why so tired? It's just been a long week. Yesterday was a day that was exhausting for me, I think, and so I... Sure, you ran a marathon. Of course, it's kind of funny live week. You might be wondering, where is the Pure One Tim Geddies?

Dady finally croak. No. Still alive. Still kicking. Still with his girlfriend. He's getting ready for Kind of Funny Live. He's editing videos, doing all these different those. Of course, it's kind of funny live, Colin, here in San Francisco, two days from now, Saturday. It'll be in the past, most likely for you. What is Kevin pointing at? You're excited about Kind of Funny Live? Good. What is Kevin pointing at?

I don't know why. He pointed out of the guy. He's like Sabu all of a sudden. He pointed out of whatever. Jesus. Two days, kind of funny live here in San Francisco, 400 fans from around the world coming to watch whatever the hell we're going to do. Last night, of course, Justin came by. Justin, a fan off Patreon who had bought your sauce. You made the sauce for him.

I did. Yeah, it was just a crazy day yesterday. And so we were just running around. We did a podcast. We did a bunch of other things, the live show, had to set everything up. whatever and I just woke up like 20 minutes ago yeah but I'm spry I'll tell you what I'm you sound like you smoked a pack and a half yeah oh I did yeah yeah I did no I didn't so I don't smoke

cigarettes but here's the thing Greg here it is you can smoke cigarettes by the way you can smoke cigarettes I don't judge you if you smoke cigarettes I smoke cigars yeah you smoke a good cigar once in a while but I don't smoke cigarettes but I'm just I'm quite tired and I don't understand why I sound like I smoke a pack and a half a cigarette it's just a tired when you're worn out like that you get sound like that uh I feel like I got a good night's sleep

do you have allergies I don't. Okay. Not that I know of. Yeah. Those things do develop later in life sometimes. See, when I moved here, I started up with allergies, and it's been bad for me this year, where I've been popping Allegra's all left or right. Or maybe Claritins, whichever.

You don't even know what you're taking. I just take, Christine's like, here's a white pill and I wake up three days later. My pants around on my house. That was weird. Wow. That's fucked up. Well, I mean, I imagine three days I'm taking my pants off somewhere. Maybe.

You don't know. How do you go to the bathroom? How do you go to the bathroom? Ladies and gentlemen. How does Portillo go to the bathroom? take them outside, poops and peas. Laundry lady came today. She beat me here before I was able to take Portillo outside.

So then she likes to pet the Portillo. So I was like, hold on, we'll go outside. And she pet him outside and did the baby talk. He didn't pee at all. You're a real son of a bitch. He waited until he got to a tree because he's a good little boy. Well, it wasn't her good little boy when the Axiom Verge guys were here. You know, that's, peeing all over the goddamn place.

That's Tom and Dan's own fault. They should have known better. Portilla, don't look at me. Don't look at me, Fortilla. Don't look at me, Fortilla. I don't want you to look at me. I don't want you to stare me. He actually looked away.

He just looks down at the Superman. I don't want you to throw one of your hexes and one of your jinxes at me, your weird motherfucker. So he's a dog witch. He's just putting curses and weird things on you. Doing dog voodoo. He's got a little voodal of me. We know when he goes and plays with his little toys.

When he's squeaking it's you? It's just me. And then I start having stomach pain. Bartilla, no. Your head's all slobbery. He feels like it's slobbery for no reason. All right. So Tim's gone.

It means we can do whatever we want. We went to the community for the topics. Taking it over. So we can get some good stuff here instead of this usual Tim Crab of like, hey, what do you think of the 3DS library? I got it. Oh, it's incredible. I got nothing to say. It's arguably the greatest of all libraries of video games.

I was going to say I was going to try to get you to quietly look over at Kevin because he was in a he was in a conundrum there. He was trying to get something out of the desk drawer, but all the poster tubes are blocking the drawer. Are you going to write on notes on that? That's probably not a good idea. You probably should get a notebook of some sort. Yeah. Go in there. Just push the things out of the way.

I think I moved that notebook. I feel like... I have like 300 notebooks. I have like 300 notebooks in there. Are you like... I'm Gregman. If you go to the second drawer there, Colin, and the green thing, there's plenty of notebooks.

I feel like if you write on that. What is that? Yeah. It looks like a course catalog. Are you taking college classes? Are you trying to get out of here? No, I... No, I...

Not you, him. No, but I know. But what he was about to write on was the instruction manual for that board, I think. It's the catalog. They're trying to sell us more shit. Oh, okay. All right.

You could have written on that. I don't know. I feel like, Because I feel like you might have been full of regret, maybe even right afterwards. If you didn't notice, I think, for years. Kind of funny games cast fans. It sounds better today. We have a much fancier board now that's canceling out table noises and all these different things.

It's incredible. It looks like the Starship Enterprise. I'm going to fucking play with that thing so much when you guys aren't here. I'm going to fuck with so many buttons and touch knobs and switches. Oh, my God. Oh, and knob switch our favorite game. Yeah. Please, Lord, have it off. Because if you change one of the saved settings.

Wait, so if I'm being serious, if I shut the thing off and then I start fucking with shit, it won't matter. If it's off and you press buttons and flips knobs, it will matter. Oh, that's awesome. I'm going to come in here in the middle of the night. But the knobs have to go back to where they were, right? No, they don't. What about the sliders? They move on their own?

No fucking way. I press a button and it switches. For the record, this is why we can't afford health care for you, but it's awesome. Just to let you know, just so you're all excited about the knobs moving on their own. You got to be excited about something. Don't get sick. You keep saying that. You keep tempting fate.

I think it's a very, it's a very poor. You've never gotten sick. Maybe a couple of times. It was bad stuff. Tough stuff. Like real sickness. He killed a normal man. Wow.

That's impressive. What you have? Bronchitis. Ebola. Yeah. Huh. I was going to say something maybe more like tuberculosis or something like that.

Oh. Typhoid. Typhoid Kevin. Walking around. Dicentery? Do you have dysentery? Are you short? I'm classy.

I'm sure. I have four questions here for four topics. Okay. If topics go short, we can pepipip. bring in other ones. But the highlighted ones are the ones we're going to do. So I'm going to give you

the names of the question submiter. You choose the first topic. We have George, Cameron, kind of funny, Kevin Bacon, and Scott. Cameron. Alphabetical order.

Cameron says, 16 minutes ago. When you copied it. Yeah. I would love for you guys to talk about the division. Do you think it will be another destiny?

Now, this is an interesting topic. I like the topic and the fact of, do you think it'll be another destiny? What is destiny to you, Cameron? Does he mean, will it be a super successful game? Where people are hooked on it and playing it forever but not really liking it?

I think that's probably what. Well, yeah, I think he probably doesn't necessarily mean that last part, but more of a game of... So you think Cameron means it in a very positive way? Yeah, the division looks like it's going to be way better than Destiny. So it's, it's, it, I don't think it's going to be, you know... I play Destiny 5, 6, 7 hours. To me, it came off as a very sterile shooter. Sure.

It's because I don't play with other people. I acknowledge I'm probably not playing it, quote, unquote, the right way. But there was something that didn't... You know, I know people... You should have been able to play Destiny by yourself, and I think that there's a way for you to do that effectively, but it didn't seem like it was very fun. I found myself going to the same maps,

fighting the same enemies in the same places. You'd walk away from the place on the map and go back, and they'd still be there again. They'd just respawn. Like there was a Mopsip, yep, yep. No, I think he probably means, will it be, you know, a game that has long-term ramifications for its publisher

in terms of, you know, putting D.L. they'll see out and all those kinds of things. That's my assumption is what he means. And you think it will be? No. Okay. I think the division is very different game than Destiny. I don't think you compare those two games at all.

I think Destiny is going to be a more squad-based. So I, and it's not an MMO and it's not loot-based, I don't think, random-generated Yeah. That's my whole thing. You're so quick to say that, you know, the division looks way better than Destiny. I don't feel like we've seen enough of the division. Not that I'm willing to say you're wrong. I do think personally what we've seen of the division.

Vision, it looks like a better game. Like, in terms of, like, just alone, visual stylings, what you're doing, the way the squad works. But I don't know if it's fair to compare the vertical slice we saw two years ago to what Destiny is right now, right? Yeah, that's true. I just think, to me, it looks like a meaty, shooting, or RPG shooter. Yeah.

And that's not what Destiny is. Sure. Destiny has a level system that doesn't really make any sense to anyone. Emote's a light, come on. And it, it just seems like a more granular game. It seems like, frankly, the divisions are going to be a more hardcore game than, than, uh,

that's interesting. So what are you, now, what are you there? So you're saying more hardcore game. You mean more hardcore in, and it's systems. Okay. Yeah.

I, I'm not saying hardcore people. Destiny is not played by hardcore people. Of course it is. I mean, that's why it exists. Yeah. Alfredo's put how many,

or Destin's put how many hundreds of hours into a fran and stuff. But I think destiny is going to be, ultimately going to be an easier game to wrap your head around and an easier game to understand why there's a, um, a gravity toward,

you know, towards playing it over and over again. Well, I think the division is going to be a more structural role playing game. I mean, that's always the vibe I've gotten from the game. That's why I'm excited about it. Of course, the setting's like really cool and the story is really cool and all that.

And the Tom Clancy vibe, of course, in a lot of games is cool, but even though Tom Clancy had nothing to do with this and obviously it's deceased RIP, Tom Clancy. What up? Am I pointing to Kind of Funny Live or Tom Clancy? We'll never know. We don't know if Tom Clancy's up there with God. Let's not go that way. Why? What do you mean? I don't know if he's up there with God. I don't know. How am I? How do I know that?

Because the normal people are going to think you think, you're saying he might be in hell. I'm a huge Tom Clancy. fan. Why would I assume? I don't know. Why would you throw that out there? Maybe Tom Clancy's widow and or children are watching right now. They didn't need to be reminded of that. They like the Saboo reference and now you're talking. One of my favorite piece of fiction is Red Storm Rising. Yeah. But do you ever hear the song Mojo Rising by the doors? Uh, I know the doors. I don't know if I know that particular. Mojo rising. Oh yeah. That's a great rendition. Thank you, Greg, for that. Nailed it. Copyright strike. Yeah, we're going to get a copyright strike for that. Uh, no, so I think

that that's where I stand on that. I think that, I think people are going to play Destiny for years. It would be easy to assume that if the division really did come out Q1, 2016, which is what they're aiming for now, that people will still be playing Destiny in greater numbers than they're playing the division after a few months of the division being out. So it's...

The division seems like it's going to end. You're going to get to the end of the game and it's over and out, whereas Destiny is like the constant loot treadmill, right? I've got to keep going to keep my level up, get through these dailies, so I have all this so I can buy the next piece of armor when the next DLC... Sounds thrilling. MMOs.

Yeah. Yeah, so I think Destiny's got, you know, obviously got legs for forever. Okay. Not forever, but for a long time. Yeah. I think the division will come out. People will like it. It'll do fine, and then it'll just disappear.

You'll probably get a sequel. Yeah, I was going to say, remember yesterday and Colin McGreg-O-Ber was talking about, UB was saying that they see it as a new franchise. They're already calling it a franchise. So they're committed to doing more, but that's Ubisoft, I guess, in general. Yeah, they've worked on this engine for so long, and this game's been so delayed that they bet they probably look at it. It's like watchdogs where, I'm surprised they just haven't shit and gotten off the pot already,

with the division and just been like, all right, we're getting it out and we'll fix it later. I mean, that's kind of what they did with watchdogs. I mean, watchdogs was, I played watchdogs for a few hours, and I'm like, no, no thanks. Yeah, I was like, I see where this is going. I'm good, you know what I mean? Yeah, to me, I'm way more interested in where the sequel does.

Nice idea. Again, Ubisoft's a good, I think Ubisoft's still got its groundedness unlike some other big publishers. Yeah. It might be losing it. But it seems like you would assume that, and I don't want to make,

I don't necessarily want to make assumptions like this, but you would assume that, It takes a lot of restraint to say, like, the division's coming out this year, and, like, regardless of when it's, like, we need to get it out. And they're not doing that, and so, but they also don't have to do that. You know, they have Assassin's Creed this wall. Yeah. Isn't Rainbow Sixes' fault, too?

Is it? Or is that soon? Wasn't it? I thought it was on the... I don't know. My assumption was that that game was really far away, but I guess it's not... Or they could be, they could be just pouring all the resources and then getting that out, thinking that that's the... I mean, people were really excited about that game, which is. Yeah, that looks awesome.

So maybe it just makes more sense for them to put it. internal resources into finishing that first, or getting that out, or getting that polished and Q8. So, yeah. Still saying 2015. Yeah, that's great. I have no interest in that game. Really?

Yeah. It looks great. Just because it's multi-player. Yeah, I just want to play that. For me, it looks like Left for Dead, you know, but I mean, cops and robbers, left for dead, which I'm great. It looks cool. It looks great.

I have nothing against it. It's just I know that game's not going to interest me. So I'm just like not even putting it on my area. Sure. You can't play it by yourself. Yeah, I've still, the division, when I heard that you can just play it by yourself. But do you think it's like a destiny played by yourself? I hope not.

I mean, I like the level progression idea and stuff like that. So I want to just walk around New York City by myself and just encounter what I encounter and find what I find. I think that's way more eerie than playing with other people. The setting of Rainbow Sixth Siege or the idea behind Rainbow Six Seed makes sense with other people. To me, the division should have been designed as a single player game. That would have been more eerie walking around New York City in perpetual fucking Christmas decorations with a terrible Black Friday virus going around is way scary. by yourself. I have no idea why they made that. Let me tell you about a little game called prototype then. Let me tell you a little about a little game called prototype and prototype two. Platinum prototype two.

Terrible. Yeah, you did. Different kind of game. Prototype two was awful. That was a stack game sucks. Yeah, it was awful. Yeah, it was awful. Game sucks. The first prototype was bad too. They were both bad. Prototype one was worse than prototype two. Yeah, that's true. As long as we can agree on that. Yeah, we'll shake on it. Good. That's what I like. We are businessmen. That's one word for it. Are you worried or do you I mean, the division, I guess for me it's the division's delay, I thought, was out of the ordinary, right? I feel like this is getting into Watchdogs' territory where I'm kind of sick of hearing about this game without just fucking having this game. You know what I mean?

Watchdogs was at like, what, two or three threes? Was it three? Goddainer. It was. It was the first. And they wouldn't say that. They were like, well, we can't tell what platforms it's coming to. It was like, oh. Yeah, I don't know. I actually feel like they haven't really talked about the division that much. I think that more we in the media, the press chamber. Yeah, I guess we're really not the platform. press anymore, but just the whatever, the commentators, and of course the press, the literal press have been talking about the division way more than I think

Ubisoft has been. Yeah. And I think that's a good sign for them because people are excited about it because it looks fucking good. Yeah, that game looks good. I'm skeptical as hell about watchtrucks, too. I don't care about Assassin's Creed. Far Cry 5 has got to be, which Far Cry is awesome. That's got to be really far away. Yeah, of course. So for me, I'm more excited. Like, I am more excited for Watch Dogs 2 than I am

the division knowing what Watch Dogs 1 was. Because it's totally on the Assassin's Creed trajectory, right? Where the original Assassin's Creed came on, you're like, ooh, this is half baked, there's good stuff here, but it's just not for me. And then I thought Assassin's Creed 2 was awesome. And so I figure with Watch Dogs, it'll be tightened up, honed in,

you're this vigilante, go have fun. Because the Watch Dogs on paper should have been a game I was totally into, right? Like, you're this vigilante around Chicago, running around, like, trying to protect things, but it just didn't work. It got boring after a while, and I wasn't into it. You know what I mean? You fix some of the mechanics, you put it back out for two, I'm great.

Division, I still feel like, I know I like the idea, and the gameplay looks cool, but I'm still in this mode like, I just haven't played it. That feels like a game I'm gonna have to need to play a mission. I would be like, all right,

I got it, I'm on board. Yeah, I suspect that my indifference to Grand Theft Auto 5 when it came out and then to watch dogs is just signaling a shift in my own opinions on, not open world games, because I love open world games, but these, like, driving around cities,

doing missions, kind of like, or whatever. Like, I, you know, it's just like, I need something more, a little more revolution, I feel like I feel like the reason that Far Cry

I like Far Cry so much is because it's just a different kind of shooter I like shooters generally I like playing shooters a lot single player ones but Far Cry is like an open world shooter and I was like why is

in Crisis obviously was inspired by that and stuff but it's just like why not do this more often like why are we open world shooters should be done lots of open world shooters Borderlands

yeah borderlands but Borderlands is very structural you know what I mean like I feel like I feel like that game its own beast. I don't feel like that's really an open world shooter. So when you're defining open world shooter, you mean in the way of like Far Cry, you can just want or not have a mission, you're going to get attacked,

you're going to hunt wolves and shit like that and get pouts. Borderlands is nonlinear and it is open world, but it's also like geographically based. There are load times and places. It's not an open, it's not really an open world. And I'm sure that they just couldn't get to run like that. I'm sure they would have loved it to have been like that. Sure. But it's not like that.

Too many guns in there. It's too many gun variants. Borderlands is good. I like Borderlands. I like the idea of Borderlands more than I actually like playing it. but I still want to play the pre-sequel. So here's my... Oh, it was good.

I enjoyed myself a lot with that. Me and Christine, had a good time with that. Here's my question for you then. Pigebacking off what we're talking about here. What are your thoughts leading into Metal Gear Solid 5, the Phantom Pain? An open world metal gear. What does that do for you? Does that excite you as a different kind of third-person shooter?

Or does it put you off as just another open world game? No, the mystique around Metal Gear is, I think, more excited than the structure of it. I'm actually a little disappointed that Metal Gear's open world. So that's not really Metal Gear to me. Metal Gear is like a little bit of backtracking and a little bit of non-linearity, but the Metal Gear games that I, that resonated with me most, one and two were not like that. Yeah, you have a story. Did you think?

Yeah, I feel like that's more, yeah, I believe that Metal Gear South 5 will be a great game, but it seems making it open world like that and makes, seems like a very reactionary move. Like, that's not really what your game is. That's not really what your series was, and I don't understand. Not everyone has to do that to make sure they're effective. Not everything has to be the Witcher. You don't have to have these sprawling open worlds. It gives you a lot of freedom and a sense of awe, which I think is cool.

But Metal Gear was more about a sense of intrigue and mystery and so like that. It was story-based, right? It was for a long time. That's what I loved about Middle Gear One was the fact, or Metal Gear Solid, the fact that you were going through and you're trying to figure out what's happening and how do I stop this thing? Yeah, I mean, as far as games coming out that day in September, I'm way more excited about Mad Max than I am about Metal Gear.

That's another open world one. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense to me. Yeah, Avalanche Open World and then Mad Max Universe makes sense. Yeah, so. But no, I'm interested to see. It's cool people are trying things out. It just seems like that's the zeitgeist right now.

It's like open world. And these decisions were made years ago, so you can see that slowly trickling out. And then it's the same thing we were talking about some episodes ago with player agency and stuff where everything had to have choice in it. And you can see the legacies of Mass Effect and Fall Out 3 all over the place. And now it's starting to slowly wane because everyone's like, well, we don't want to do that anymore. Tell your story, whatever. There's nothing wrong with that. But that's not what every, not every game needs to have that.

It seems like arbitrary-ass games had these arbitrary choices. It didn't even matter. It has to be meaningful. And that's the same way when you have design philosophies of open world. It can't just be an open world for the sake of being an overall. It must be a meaningful open world. I believe about Kojima made it probably a meaningful open world. But I still don't feel like it feels like Metal Gear to me.

I had never played it. It sounds like Metal Gear to me. On June 9, I can tell you all about it. Right now, I can't say a goddamn word. That was a creepy. That was really probably almost an unnecessary face that you made, man. Tim's not here, stop us. Portilla, sick him.

You're a real monster, aren't you? He could get there. He can get something. He can get somebody you've had to. Saw a story in the news not too long ago about a Wiener Dog protecting its owner from a bear. So there you go. Got the bear distracted. Bear fucked up the Wiener Dog. I have no doubt about it.

But he backed off. Wiener Dog had like a scar or whatever. Really? He survived. Oh, yeah, he survived. Surrised the bears and bite him in half. Take him down, right? It's just like when Portilla comes after another dog. Dog's always big. or Patel comes charging in like a fucking insane person. The big dog's like, what is wrong?

It backs down. Like, holy shit, dude. It wasn't a thing. Go away. That's why I won't walk for, Till. I know. I understand.

Because I told you, I don't want to be responsible for this dog being inevitably killed by another dog. I know how I'll do that one day. When that happens, he went out and doing what he loved. The only way it could be more of what he loved is if he was eating poop while he did it. Oh,

he used to love eating Chloe's poop when she lived there. Oh, God. He loved it. He loved a good piece of cat poop. Yeah. That wasn't, see, That was the thing is that we used to make fun of Mike for not cleaning the litter box

enough. We should have just let Portel eat more of the shit. Sure. Natural. Nature selection. It's very natural. Yeah. I mean, he would have done it. If he was running around with his weiner dogs in the wild, they'd be eating shit left and right. It'd be probably fine. I have always dreamt of seeing that. Just a herd of a weiner dog is running through the countryside. Not like wild. I mean, like you had a weiner dog meet up. Oh, okay. Get like 30 wiener dogs together and let them all run free. I mean, the fact of the matter is that you got to this dog through a series of intentionally fucked up genetic decisions made by breeders

over hundreds of years. I mean, that's just the reality of the situation. I know. I'm well aware. And that's... He hunts badgers. Yeah, it's just... Dog breeding's really interesting. That's for another time, though. Yeah, that's for a different show, probably too.

Yeah, probably not this show. All right, topic two. You can have George, Kind of Funny Kevin Bacon, or Scott. George. I'm putting a one here. George Barrett writes in and says, what does Zelda Wii you need to do

to make you fall in love with the franchise again. Are you out of love with the Zelda franchise? Are you not in love with the Zelda? No, I'll always be in love There you go. That's what I think too. Yeah, I mean like Skyward Sword didn't do anything for me, but I loved a link to the past or link between worlds. Uh, you know what I mean? Like I'm, I still love Zelda. I still cheer for Zelda. I still want Zelda to be great. I'm not like it being a Zelda hater. No, I want Zelda to be great too. I don't think Zelda's been great in a long time. With the exception of Skyward Sword, which I can't talk about because I didn't play. I just was not going to dig out my Wii from wherever. I already still have no idea where my Wii is. Um, you didn't miss. It's, it's somewhere. I heard that Skyward's always very meaty, but that, but that was almost like, I don't know, no, I'm, we're getting off track. Because yeah, I put maybe five hours into it.

And I was just like, I'm not committing another 35 to this. Yeah, I heard it was very long. Yeah, I heard it was very long. Like, this is not what I want to do. Yeah, just, uh, Zelda needs to not necessarily change, but do something different. The way, the way, like, and what I mean by that is, it doesn't need to be what it's not. You know, it doesn't need to be what it's not, but it needs to do something just a little bit differently. And I think that that's getting back to what it actually is and not try to

like reinvent the wheel. The reason that people love like Okarina of time was because it was Zelda. That was like what you assumed a Zelda game was. It's dungeons. It's a little bit of exploration, finding heart pieces and doing all those kinds of things. Now, all the other Zelda games after that have that, but they try to like pigeonhole or I'm sorry, not pigeonhole new features in to these games or make them a little different to just make them different. I feel like you could just just make, Zelda's good enough structurally where you could just make minor differences, tweak the story, tweak the characters,

tweak the dungeons, and kind of just release a prettier version of Zelda or a better version of Zelda over and over again. Now, that's a little hypocritical of me to say because the most different Zelda of all as Major's Mask and that's my favorite. But I think that that stood out because it was still Zelda. It was still recognizable, Zelda game, Link was still recognizable as Link. There was no motion controls, there was no

stylus controls, there was no 40-hour campaign, all those kinds of of things and I think that when you throw those kinds of things in, it becomes less interesting, you know? I feel like... It gets away from the core of what it is. Yeah, I feel like Zelda is a super special series, and there wasn't any bad Zelda games in the core series, unless you find, kind of like CDI games and stuff like that. Until, you know, until I think Twilight Princess. And I know people like that game, but I was like, this game kind of sucks.

Like, I feel like part of it is because I had to play it on the Wii, as I've explained many times before, and I, and that motion control sucked. And I just felt like the game was just, I was just like, this, what it is? the goat's running down the hill and I'm trying to stop it from running and I'm like what the hell is going on in this game like I just want to play like why can I just hold a controller I don't even understand like why they made these certain decisions

which turned me completely off to Skyward Sword and then Phantom Hourglass I think was there or was it was it Phantom Hourglass that came out first no Spirit Tracks came out first and I was so excited I didn't read anything about it I was like you know which is probably my fault

but I was like I was so excited about it it's Zelda yeah I'm excited on my handle them is going to be great. I love, you know, Link's Awakening. I love, I really love the Oracle games. Forcedores was awesome. So it's like, I picked

that up and I played it for five minutes and I'm like, nope, nope. Like, I'm not controlling this game with a stylus. Why would you ever think that I want to do that? Terrible. Terrible. Why the fuck would you ever think that I wanted to do that? Yeah. And then they released another one, same thing. Don't even bother with it. So I feel like, and

Minish Cap, I think, was a step in the wrong direction too for different. Minish Cap, which is a weird kind of game. So for me, Zelda was just on the way. Now, I agree with you that a link between worlds was pretty cool, but a link between worlds is only to the past. So, like, it was cool in that being in that world again and playing in that world again, but it didn't feel fresh or new at all. Sure. It felt like a really well done fan sequel, kind of. And I don't mean that as an insult saying, like, it's crude, it's not. It's just like, that world is kind of... You felt like he'd been there before. Yeah, that world is, that version is all this sacred,

and I don't need to see that again. There's nothing revolutionary in that game. You know what I mean? Like, sorry. I've... What about the octopuses? Whatever. Oh, you have to find them to... Yeah.

What is it? Level up or someone? Yeah, yeah. It's like... I played that over Christmas break two years ago, and I liked it a lot, but I was like, everyone was like making this fucking amazing. I'm like, it's just linked to the past, dude. Like, it's the same world.

I know what's around every fucking corner on this map. You know what I mean? Like, that's not exactly what I'm looking for. I appreciate it. And I appreciate that you're going back to the classic, like, one of the classic Zelda games, arguably for many people the best Zelda game, but it didn't do it for me. Yeah.

So then what do you want to see out of this Wii U version? This is, you know, topic one was open world. It looks like this is an open world Zelda, right? Yeah, I think about it being Skyrimi where you look over that hill. You can get there. You can actually go to it. I think that's what we're going to get, and I think that that's great. But again, it goes against like kind of the grain of what I was saying was I almost

would, I almost wish that it was just a more structural Zelda game. I think that the Zelda game is going to be great. I think they're taking their time. It looks awesome. It does look beautiful. I have no doubt that they'll do their best to deliver. I think that the message has been delivered to them loud and clear from the fans, at least some vocal fans that this is not, you know, Skyward Store was not what they wanted.

And certainly the sales spoke to that. Skyward Store sales, considering how many whee's out there, it was bad. It was sold like 4 million copies. It's like really not very good. For a very late Wii game where there are 100 whee's out there, 4% of your audience bought that game. Yeah. For a Zelda game.

That's incredible. You know? considering half of the N-64 owners bought Ukraine of time, literally half of them, you know? So, it's, I think we're going to get an open-world game that's inspired by Western role-playing games, but I think it'll keep the Zelda sensibilities, and I think that's fine.

I want them to get more back to the roots of what made these games great and the sense of awe, which I think a game, like an open-world game like Zelda could possibly do. Do you worry about it, bogging down, though? That's my thing. It's like, there'll be this, like, let's say, I mean, we don't know much about it. It's not like there's been,

We don't know anything about it, really. So there's your main story quests, and then there's all these side quests. And, like, you fucking, you go into the Gorgon cave for the first time, and then rolling around being a much, they're eating rocks, being crazy motherfuckers like they are. And, like, you see, it's a huge thing, and there's lava pits, and it's beautiful, and it's, you know, stunning HD. And then you're on this quest of Save Zelda, and then one of them needs your help getting three pebbles for its baby, you know, baby gore on or whatever.

And you have to, like, you know what I mean? Like, is that going to water it down to an extent? Yeah, maybe. I hope it doesn't take such literal inspiration from Western role-playing games because there's a place for that kind of stuff, but Zelda is not it. See, the problem with Zelda, the problem with Nintendo games generally,

with the exception of maybe Metroid, is, and I'm not talking about every franchise, but the big franchise is that the protagonists are just... Dude-ets, they're just there. Quiet, people. So, that's, like, the bigger thing now,

that's not really a problem in a game like Fallout 3 or Skyrim, because you're kind of just playing as an avatar of catching you make. but Link is Link so how does Link interact in a world like that where he's usually silent and you don't even really know him?

That's the funny thing is that for all the Zelda games I play and I played them all with the exception to the ones we've mentioned I have no idea who he is and he's a different character in every one of these games but you never really get to know him. He's like your... He's a boy without a fairy man. He's like your avatar kind of

but you don't even get to control what he looks like or choices he makes so he's just going through the motion so in a game like in an open world game, which we assume that the Zelda Wii game or maybe NX game will be there needs to be more substance put to him. And that's actually what I'm most interested in it is that they actually decide to start writing this character. No way.

No way. Everybody would lose their fucking mind. I think it'll be awesome. When he comes out and talks and stuff, yeah, I don't care. But we're not the guy buying truckloads of amoeboes and fucking camping out trying to find these. No, we're not, but I would say I'm just as passionate as Zelda fan as anyone out there. I wrote long-ass FAQs for the first three Zelda games. I have beaten all of them up to that point or whatever.

I buy them when they come out when I was a kid. Yeah. I love Zelda. And my passion for that series cannot be questioned. And I wouldn't mind seeing that at all. So I don't think just because you're going out and buying amoeboes or you're a current day Wii U fan or whatever means that you have a greater ownership over Zelda than someone who had been at the beginning. You have a greater ownership.

I'm not saying they should feel like they have a greater owner. I'm thinking what Nintendo thinks. Yeah. Nintendo is hurting, right? They need a success. This isn't the time to roll the die of the dime. and be like, well, fuck, we're changing everything you know about Link. Sure, but I think that...

Here he is, and he's voiced by Scott Porter. I think that... I like Scott Porter. I don't think they have to voice him. I think that would probably actually be a bad idea. I would like the idea of not using voice acting, but that's probably a weird idea, too. I think that just, if you're going to go in that direction

of being inspired by Western Games and making it a little more open and stuff, then maybe decide that you might want to write something for Link and make him a meaningful character and not just a dude with a sword and a... So what does that mean to you writing for him, then? You're giving him dialogue choices, but no V. No, no choices.

Just give him a... story. Like give him a meaningful, you know, give him dialogue. Give him something worth saying and give him a reason to be doing what he's doing. There's always a reason. There's a draw. And the link to the past, he's woken up in the middle of the night, goes to the castle. Zelda's been, you know, kidnapped wherever. I mean, but like, that's just, that's just fucking whatever. Like, that's just the reason to set forth the adventure. It's not really a story. And, um, his driving force, but no real motivation. Yeah, exactly. So, like, make him a character of substance. I mean, when I think about the, when I think about Winwaker, which I think is a great game,

that was really an attempt to do an open world kind of Zelda game too, and in a different kind of way. In a way that it frustrated a lot of people, actually. But I love the sailing. Yeah, I did too, but you could go in different directions to do different things and stuff like that in the game and find, you know, this is a story, but you can go find a heart piece or. Sure, sure. So, you know, but even in that game, it's like, again, it's just, it's just a different looking link that's nothing. Yeah. See, for me, that, like, I still love Zelda, always. will, but this is something I know you and I don't agree with, because you were on a Zelda podcast, right, talking about

Miro's Mask, and I got to listen in to a little bit of it. For me, was one of the things of... I love O'Kareenor's Time. That's my favorite Zelda, but I love Majora's Mask just a little bit, you know, less. You know, if I'm ranking them, it's one and two. And what I loved about Majores Mask was the continuation of that character of Link. I missed there being a continuity to Link.

I didn't... Win Waker, I fucking loved, at the time, even. I know you hang out with revisionists. You talk to any of the college friends. They know how much I loved it. But for me, it was a... a bummer to start that and then be like telling the legend of the hero of time and then you're not that one but you get his tune it's like uh and then that keeps going and every zelda is like this hard reset hard reset hard reset hard and i'm like just okay can we just let's get a zelda let's get a link

let's get a universe i like and let me continue to do different things and i feel like that's where they get hung up and why the story never progresses is because every time they're like well we're doing this again so it's got to be link saving zelda there's got to be this dynamic of this princess thing or whatever da-da-da-da and that's where we keep getting fucking spinning our wheels because it's always like the next one I feel like somebody's thinking we'll push it

but they never do they just go in a different direction yeah I mean there's a cleverness to it in the sense that they're resetting doesn't tie them to anything like there's a there is a lord Zelda and an order to the games that I think was done afterwards same with Castlevania like it started at a certain time and then later on you can figure out that there's actually

you know Castlevania 3 takes place you know before Castlevania and all that you know but that stuff that that's like figure it out later, like you make your game first, and then you kind of figure out if there's going to be a lore in a universe, whatever. Sure, sure, sure. And by not making a continuous real universe, with the exception of, with really a couple of exceptions, they're not tied to

anything, which I think is clever and freeze them up, especially with Majora's Mask, being somewhat of a continuation of link to the past in a different world or whatever, or I'm sorry, in a different world, whatever. Well, that game was made like a year. So it's like, it's like not, there's like, wasn't really, it's so funny that that game ended up being so good because it was made in no time. Same with Mega Man 3. It's like, this game's awesome. They made it in like no time. So, yeah, I think that maybe now is the place where you start with what you're talking about.

Make a game that's more meaningful. Zelda, unlike Metroid, I think, is, Metroid is largely irrelevant to a large audience. We've talked about that past. The games do not sell. And we love them, but, or I do anyway, but no one really cares about those games. And those games are story driven and there is a continuity between them. and an order that the games take place in and Samis is the same character and all these kinds of things and she just has feelings and emotions

and you do hear from her on occasion. I saw the baby Metride but I didn't know. But that doesn't resonate with the big audience and Nintendo's probably looking at that being like well our serialized game is not that big. Yeah but this is damned if you do damned if you don't right

because you're sitting here saying you don't really know Link and I think it's because they re-fucking boot Link every time. You know what I mean? Now, granted, they need to hit Link out of the park. Maybe, you know, they hit him out of the park on Wii U. Everybody's like, we love this version of Link, and then they're like, all make, fine, this is, we'll make a sequel to this. That would make sense. But I don't understand that argument in the sense that if it was the same link in all the Zelda games, so what. But it's not, but it's not, but it's not the same link in all the Zelda games. I'm talking about just one to one to tell me something different, to do something different. No, I understand what you're saying, but I'm saying, like, even if it was, like, even if there was just complete continuity in the Zelda games, it doesn't matter because he doesn't fucking saying. anything. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's just the same story over and over again. You know, and to me, like, my favorite Zelda games are Zelda 2 and Majora's Mass because they are really different games, you know, but they retain the spirit of Zelda. I felt like even Zelda 2, and I don't know if a lot of our younger viewers are played it, Zelda 2 is a radically different game. Zelda 2 is the most different Zelda game in existence, you know, again,

unless you're talking about the really obscure Zelda games that you've never played, you know, that you have no access to when you've, and people talk about it. And people talk about it. talk about on forums like they play them. Yeah, yeah. You know, that game is radically different, but it felt like a Zelda game. It had the spirit of a Zelda even though the original original Zelda, which is an open world game,

miraculously enough, it's like very full circle. That is an open world game. And you can go in different orders and do all these kinds of things. I fucking hold that game, too. That game's special. You know, these games that tried to do different things still felt Zelda like. And so by the time you got to the games that I felt like, I felt like Twilight Princess didn't feel like a Zelda game. I felt like it felt like just some boring

fucking gray monotonous It's like what is this game And then with Skyward Sword I look at it I read about it and I watch the videos And I'm like I don't I don't know what the hell this is I appreciate that you're trying to do something different

It just doesn't appeal to me And again being turned off by the DS games I think turn me off to Zelda generally But I would love Zelda to have a return to form Because some of the best games of all time Come from that series And you can't really question it So

Take your time Make the game you know Make the game that they want to make I hope and I know they are. I think there's a lot of conspiracy theories about why they're delaying it. I'm not so sure those conspiracy theories

hold water. What are some of the theories? Oh, for NX? Yeah, specifically that they're holding it because they're trying to make, they're trying to do what they did with Twilight Princess, which was make it a dual, like probably a game off on two systems.

Yeah. Which is exactly what they did with Twilight Princess. I mean, that was the GameCube's swan song, but also the wheeze, like coming up to life kind of, you know, what was already, people liked it already, but you understand. I understand.

It was the hardcore game. That was the one where you, this is what you've been waiting for me. Yeah, exactly. Like, just like we had, you know, when a GameCube launched and you got Luigi's mansion, but then you got Smash Brothers a little bit later, and that was really the killer app for that game or for that system. Probably Princess was a Wii launch title, right?

I thought I brought that home with Wii Sports. Yeah, it was. I think it was, yeah. And a very limited run on GameCube that fall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what fucked you over. I was so fucking pissed, dude. I don't know why I just didn't reserve it.

The funny thing is that my, that's like a really, like, a meaningful moment of change in my life where my opinion on Zelda and that game might be totally different if I played it on GameCube. But I didn't. And so I played the inverted fucking version of it where you have to waggle your Wii mode and that's my impression of that game forever now. My thing with Twilight Princess is I don't, what's weird about it is I don't

have a strong opinion about it. I played it with the Wii. I remember fringe fingers being the boss. I remember Tain turning into Wolf here and there and that's it. Like I beat that game and like that was so weird to go from, you know,

my introduction to Zelda was N64, Akrian of Time, the George Mask, Wien Waker, and then we get here and it's like this game

that I have no, like, I mean, I have so many clear memories of those first three games and how amazing they were and what they did differently and what I was blown away in dungeons where I was stuck or whatever,

right? And then you get to Twilight Princess and it's just a game that I played and was done with. I think a lot of people felt that way about it. Yeah. And that's sad. I mean,

I remember getting it and printing out FAQs and like getting, because I wanted all the heart piece and something. I'm like, I really don't have time to dick around with this game. Like, I just want to find everything and complete it. And I was just like, this is so boring. And it was the first time, it was the first Zelda game that I had approached up to that

point that I didn't beat or get anywhere near it. I'm like, I can't play this guy. I don't want to play this guy. I can't, I was almost, I remember being almost offended by it. And the only thing I remember about it, and I was that goat scene early on in the game. I'm like, what the fuck is this? You know, like, I don't know why that resonated with me in such a negative way where I'm like, what is this? Like, why am I, what is this game? who is this link what is this world

who is this man and I got you know quite a ways into it and I was just like I can't play this I just had to accept I'm like I and that was really when I started to kind of fall out of love with Nintendo a little bit where I was like I can't I don't know I just this isn't I don't know what it is about this company I don't know what it is about the system

I don't know what it is about this game I don't like any of it you know and it was shocking to me especially being such a GameCube apologist man like oh my God I was the worst with that shit so I loved that system game keep I loved the GameCube. I loved it and it had a great library. I really think we make fun of the 3DS's wanted a library of games

but the GameCube really did have an awesome library games. Exclusives and obviously third party games or games that would turn into third party games like Resident Evil for instance. Yeah, well he would chainsaw his head off if that game can't win it around. So it was just such a it was such a change and Zelda almost is mapped to that change to me.

Interesting. But there's like that clear delineation that's where things change. Twilight Princess was really the first game where I was like, yeah, this isn't, this isn't for me anymore. This whole, this whole thing is... It's ecosystem. Because Galaxy was the one that came out... Supermarer Galaxy is just an extraordinary game. That game's a 10, if you want to put a score, I mean, easily.

And that was, like, really the last time I played a Nintendo game where I'm like, yeah, you guys, like, still have it. You really still have it. Ever since then, whenever I've dabbled with their games, they just didn't feel right or whatever. I just have lost interest. Even 3D World? We did some less plays back in the day, that. Yeah, I like, so I liked

New Super Mario Brothers Wii, New Super Mario Bros. We, the one that came in the red case. Yeah. That was a good game. Um, that came out later. That was like 2009 or 2010, I think. And then the, I don't like the games that are 2.5D or even have depth of field. And that's why, like, so I, I just don't, it's the same reason why I can't play Little Big Planet. Like, I fucking hate Little Big Planet. Yeah. You know, it's just like, there's, like, but this is even worse because you really are, like, I just don't understand. Like, just make your game a 3D game or make your game a 2D game and just be done with it.

Yeah. I don't understand this like half step shit at all. Or like this kind of weirdness to it. That game put a smile. Those games could put a smile on my face and I enjoyed playing them, but it's not what I'm looking for. I remember when I got a DS and I played New Super Mario Brothers for the first time, I'm like, wow, this is fucking awesome.

Make these all the time. Make this constantly. Yeah. And I'll eat the shit up. And then they did that with the Wii version. And I was like, yeah, this is great. That's awesome. But I don't know.

I don't know. Just turn more into a thing about Nintendo. But in terms of the Zelda game... For Zelda Wii, you, yeah, I want big sweeping worlds. I want it to be open world. I don't want dumb quests, but I want cool quests, if that makes sense. They're clever. I mean, they know what they're doing.

I do believe that they know what they're doing. And I don't think they've ever made a bad Zelda game. I think that they just have made Zelda games that aren't for me. And I don't know who they're for some of these games. But I don't think that they're literally bad. So I think even if you've got like an open world, like facsimile Zelda game of something that looks

like it's Skyrim or something. I think you'll have, it'll still hopefully have those Zelda sensibilities. And if they don't, they're just going to continue to see the Zelda series become more relevant. Yeah. I also want a lot of game pad shit. Don't make me blow on it or draw anything or fucking, let me play with a pro controller. That's the real thing. They're going to make you, they're going to put the inventory on that

screen. Motherfucker. And I think that that makes sense. That's fine with me. Yeah, whatever. That controller is garbage. Garbage controller. Now, Colin, for topic three. Kind of Funny Kevin Bacon or Scott. Kind of Funny Kevin Bacon.

Kind of. Did we authorize the use of Kind of Funny in this name? Who is this person? This is Kevin Kind of Funny Bacon. I believe it's Kevin Bacon. Oh, it's Kevin Bacon. Yeah. Kevin Bacon.

Kevin Kind of Funny Bacon. He says, if VR would ever get to a point where it literally feels like you're in that world, what games would you want to play? You can put on this VR headset, Colin. you are transported anywhere. I can give you some if you want. Okay. Obviously, I want to go to Metropolis.

I want to play a Superman game of some kind. Maybe since it's so hard to really can't make a good Superman game, let me be the supervillain in first person running around. This could be even one of those dumb interactive experiences where I could just watch Superman fight doomsday in first person and run around and go in buildings and do different stuff like that. The game I wouldn't mind playing in VR.

If everything works and is amazing, a Bioshock. Go back to Rapture, go underwater, and be in, you know, Bioshock, have the guns, have my own fucking powers and shit. Plasms. Plasms is, they're called. Yes, I think, I don't know. I mean, I still think that the most resonant experience of me

with VR so far is still E. Valkyrie. So, like, you know, playing, being like a fighter pilot or a space, you know, or in space. So get a Star Wars battlefront or whatever. Yeah, I mean, I think that that would be really cool. I don't know that there's, like, specific worlds necessarily that I want to see in VR

because I feel like some of these worlds are best seen. on a TV screen or in a book or in a movie. I don't know that VR is the cure-all for immersion in every instance. Would it be cool to go to Rapture? Absolutely, it would be cool to go to Rapture. But I don't know, I think survival horror could benefit a great deal from this kind of VR.

So like a game like Dead Space being on the issue more would be pretty cool because these games are frightening. Yeah. And at least the first one wasn't. So I think that that would be pretty interesting. And obviously, I mean, for my more fanboy kind of sensibility, just playing a Mega Man game or a Castlevania game. In that...

In first person? Yeah. You get the blaster on your arm? Yeah. So like a Metroid Prime kind of thing. Yeah, I wouldn't want to play like a Mega Man. You don't be able to play side scroll over. You're just like sitting there staring at Mega Man going side.

You like walk around. He's just on this like little one block thing running. But we've always talked about how I've always wanted to reboot Mega Man if I was given the option to reboot it as an open world game. And like we're in your city or Megalopolis or whatever, the city. 20XX. Yeah. And like be able to do that.

So that would be pretty cool. Like a more gritty Mega Man like a realist. Bigger Man. And the same thing with Castlevania would be, you know, just the gothic kind of aesthetic to the game. It's very similar to, you know, Bloodbourne I think resonated with me on an aesthetic level so much because it looked like Castlevania.

And people were saying, and I think I was saying it too on Twitter, like, man, like, from software, it could really do something special with Castlevania. Just looking at this game, like this felt like more of a Castlevania game than what fucking Mercury Steam did for sure. So being in that kind of Gothic, you know, open world would be pretty cool, too.

but I'm not sure that there's specific things that I don't want to necessarily visit. What I want is for people to, or developers to create the games that they want to create and convince me that they're worth playing in VR, as opposed to like taking experiences that already exist and pigeonholing them into, you know, now being a VR kind of experience.

It doesn't necessarily have to go that way for me. Do you think VR is a future? I think it's part of the future. I don't think it's going to be the future. I think people are always going to play games with the controller in their hand. I've been saying that for years. Yeah. I don't think,

think that's ever going to change. There's a tactile nature of playing video games. You know, we've been down this, I don't know how many times you have to go down this fucking road to see that, like, it's not, it's not going to stick, you know? Yeah. And the second thing. I like people to listen. I don't want any.

And it's not that I don't want VR. I just don't see it as a viable future in terms of it's going to be the definitive thing and that's what everybody's going to do. You know what I mean? To see Sony put so much behind Morpheus is a concern for me that they didn't learn from the mistakes of move. you know what I mean like that's a thing for me Oculus is a different story

Oculus you're making it for a community that is already I'm pointing over at the origin desktop ready to invest all this money into their hobby right and think it's cool to keep up with graphics cards and drivers and all this different stuff they're down for that unique experience they do every so often whereas I think

the console gamers aren't and I don't think you're going to see that kind of support and I worry if that you're going to see the bottom fall out again and that if the failure of Morpheus will basically torpedoes otculus yeah maybe i i

still think there are two different things i still think it's way more likely that oculus is obviously successful than morphius but i don't i don't think it's necessarily likely that either of them are successful commercially i think that there's going to be a space for them both the problem is making games for them and finding financial reasons to make games for them it's the same thing with move like it's a chicken and the egg thing where it's like move could have been successful if people made games for them that were successful but there were no successful games for it so people didn't make games for it so it's not that move was necessarily

a bad idea or the Wemo was a bad idea. It's just that, or connects a bad idea. It's just that the market's kind of speaking that they don't want this. So it's not like you couldn't have made a proof, you know, a proof game that would have really convinced you. I liked some games on all of those things. So yeah, you know, we talk about sports champions a lot, for instance, I think it was a lot of fun. It was like a way better Wii sports. Like a way better Wii sports. Yeah. And I thought that that game was, that game was fun. I enjoyed it. They didn't have them. Yeah. Archery was dope. Yeah, it was. There was something cool about playing. Like, it was just the PlayStation move

is just a way better device in the Wii mode in terms of what it could do so it was just it was a deeper experience you know but it didn't matter

so I think that with VR you're gonna have experiences that are going to resonate like for me like Eve Valker or something or like what's the Sony London underwater demo

that they did but it was pretty cool but like how do you make this into a game I don't know I don't think that it's the gameplay that matters in terms of

of VR's viability. What matters the most is, are people going to find financial reasons to make compelling games on it? And that's a big thing. And will you be able to convince people to buy high-end computers or PlayStation Force to play them? Because again, as I've said, so many times, these things do not process by themselves. Like they need big, expensive, bulky devices to play.

And until you don't need those anymore, that's the barrier for VR. That's it. I think that that is the barrier for VR. Once these things become powerful enough and the tech becomes cheap enough that people can go out and buy a $500 headset and that is all you need. Yeah. And maybe a controller or someone like that.

That's a different story. Then you are really talking about something that I think absolutely can be commercially viable. Like, no doubt about it. As long as you have to have a $2,000 computer to look up of Oculus to. Yeah. There's no prayer.

As long as you're selling PlayStation 4s without a bundled in. Yeah. And I think they will bundle more than probably. But again, it's good. Well, that's what we thought about Vita and we saw how well that went. But the pricing is probably the problem. Exactly.

If you can't give value to a bundle, then there's no reason to really do it. I think that was the problem with Vita. like your money would have been $600. That's what this will be too though. This is the problem here. It would be more expensive than that. Yeah.

Well, that's what I'm saying. There's just no value. Yeah. So. Not the price tag. I don't know. I don't know. I'm a little more bullish about it than you are, I think.

But I, because I think that it's, we've been talking, VR has been in the conversation of games. As a lot of people that have played games for a long time, no, for many years for decades. So this isn't a new conversation. And these VR devices aren't the first VR devices. These are the first that have taken hold and taken root and really taken root. Oculus has really taken root. And it's found.

unbelievers in the development community, which is very important. But the developers have to eat and they have to support their families and pay their rent or their mortgage or stuff like that. So if you're making a game, a great game on Oculus and it's selling 5 or 10,000 coffees or something like that, it's not going to cut it. And so Oculus must proliferate first, but it's the chicken and the egg problem. I was talking about. Oculus will only proliferate when there's a reason for it to proliferate. Those reasons will come from software. But if there's no reason to make the software because there's no money to be made, then you're in a big trouble.

that's why Facebook you know Facebook owns to Oculus and they have very deep pockets and hopefully they understand that they're going to have to spend a lot of money to get these games developed

and hope that it works out and I'm sure they will they're going to have to spend I really think that they're going to have to spend a couple hundred million dollars probably to like to get a bunch of developers on board to be like we need 25 games

for this thing do you think Facebook understands though the kind of games they need are they going to come in and not make hardcore Or Oculusy games that you would want. They spent a lot of money on Oculus. I would hope that they understand what they're doing.

I think that they do. And they have all the financial room to make mistakes. But, yeah, I think they understand that this is going to be a huge investment and a long-term investment. You must cede Oculus with good games and good experience. Not even games, but just experiences, travel experiences and science experiences and all these kinds. You must seed it and you must give developers reasons to make financial reasons. Game development as much as everyone. not everyone, but a lot of people like to argue about the expensive games and stuff and, you know, complain about all these things.

It's not an altruistic pursuit. These guys want to make money and they want to make lots of money, and you need to give them reasons to make lots of money. It's the fusion of art and business. Developers want to be artists, but they want to have a business. Yeah, they need to make money. You're not going to find a developer, an indie developer or a AAA developer or an A developer that is not out there to make money. That's just not the way it works. this is you know for all the complaints about capitalism in a games industry you would think that this wasn't a industry founded completely because of the capitalist system

do you think it's some sort of utopian fucking communist system that there's room to play games or have a game industry or whatever like the whole thing is predicated on making money on leisure you know so if but we're at that point right where we want to be taken as an art for them and that's where it gets that's where it gets

dicey with, and I'm with you, don't get me wrong, I understand the argument. I'm just saying that that's where it gets dicey when you know that there are developers out there who are making games and trying to make art, but then there are publishers who are trying to make money and where do those two meet and how do you get a marketing plan? How much of a game do you show? What do you charge? Yeah, I still think that, I still think it's, it's still reductive though because publishers, yes, they want to make money. They're the businesses that make money, but the developers want to make money too. Sure. The Indies want to make money. They want to make lots of money. But they want to make money making the art they want to make.

Exactly. But, and again, it is the unholy, like, marriage, which has been going on for hundreds of thousands of years of money, patronage, and art. So, yeah, it's always going to be a conundrum. That conundrum is always going to be there, but... Is there with any business, right? We love what we do, but we want to make money on it. We want to continue to grow, expand, live in our homes, have enough to go out and do these different things, right?

And there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. So, like, yeah, so you just have to marry those two ideals. together and they and they must if they don't and it's going to fail but i i don't think oculus is going to fail i think it's i think it's just going to iterate and become um another segment of the market that you know i think will be very appealing to both casuals and hardcore people and i think that it'll the proof will be in the pudding man the problem with these devices is that you cannot show people what you're seeing until you actually put the device on

it's impossible in fact if you look at like a screen of what's being rendered on oculus or or or or people haven't seen it on oculus or on morphis it's just a blurry screen. You get the two, you get the binocular vision too on the side where you have the double image of the same thing going on. So it's just like you have to

you have to get these things in stores. You have to get these things in people's hands. You have to have a ground game. It's going to be tough. It's going to be very grassroots kind of thing. But, you know, once you play it, as I have many times now, I'm a total believer in VR.

Maybe not in the commercial viability of it. Maybe not in the practical nature or the pragmatic nature of VR, but I'm certainly believer in that technology. See, we spelled all like that. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah. I think technology's super cool.

I've had super cool experiences on it. Kevin, what is the game I can't remember we played here in this room that we couldn't get the capture kit to work for? I want to say it was like, I'll look it up before. But it was a VR game and it was like, it was survival horror. And we were in underwater in the suit going around. I was like, yep, this is awesome. Like, this is totally cool.

I would play this. Would I invest $3,000 to play it? No, fucking why. No, but the beauty is that, and that's why I'm excited about Morpheus, more than Oculus in a sense and a different. sense, even though I think Oculus is a more exciting device and probably a better device, is because we already have

a PS4. So, like, let's see what... You're already halfway there. But, man, the processing on PS4 is going to be really strained by this unit. Like, I still think that that... I still think Oculus's sealing is almost infinite because it's tied to the past...

the ever-evolving processing power increases of your computer as opposed to a PlayStation 4, which I think is Morpheus's Achilles Seal. Okay. Final topic. Colin. This one comes from Scott. Sorry, Scott, that Colin did not pick you. It's because your names are with an

S and everyone else came before you. I picked everything the alphabetical order. You're a human computer. Yeah, yeah. Not really. Well, close enough. Scott says, any games slash genres you wish you were better at? What's a weakness

in your gaming repertoire that you wish you were better at, Colin? Fighting games. Yeah? It's definitely a weakness for me too. I don't know that it was necessarily identified for me as a weakness until I moved here. I thought I was pretty good at fighting games.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you cleaned up with your friends back in New York. Yeah, I used to, I was, and I still think I'm a pretty competent, like, Street Fighter player, for instance. But, like, I never was introduced to this next level, like, not casual or high-end casual play until I came to California. And I remember playing Mark Ryan and other people and be like, I'm not good at this game at all. The way I play, it doesn't make any sense. I don't explore the control. Like, I play as Ken and Street,

fighter. And I use only fierce punch and fierce kick. And I jump a lot, which exposes me a lot. But I like doing that because you get around the screen faster. I'm like, I can't play like that with like real people. I get fucking destroyed. Yeah. And I'm, and I was so interested in, you know, especially like Mark Ryan and I jam played

where, you know, you use like the jabs and all these kinds of things. You set up like these combos by like breaking blocks and, you know, analyzing frames and exposing enemies in different ways or whatever or your opponents in different ways. And it's like, man, I didn't play these games like this. And I played a lot of fighting games. I played a lot of fighting games. You know, I played a lot of the S&K fighting games. And obviously, you know, Street Fighter and then a little bit of Moral Combat,

although I think I never really liked Mortal Kombat. But then, you know, Street Fighter versus X or X-Men versus Street Fighter. Sure. I mean, I loved all these games. And I thought I was competent at them, but I'm not. You know, Street Fighter Alpha 3 is probably like my favorite fighting game ever. I love that game on PS1. But, excuse me, some of these people just play these games that just, and not even

competitively. There's just some people that aren't in a competitive scene at all that just played a much higher level. Right, right. For me, I mean, like, the first thing that jumps to mind is first person shooters. Like, I'm competent in first person shooters now. Like, and I'm talking about like multiplayer, jumping in and playing something multiplayer, right? Because when Titanfall was coming up, Alfredo put me through a boot camp to get me decent. And I was decent. And when Titanfall came out, I hung in there in my month and a half of playing. I hung in there and was like usually in the mid to upper part of the rankings, right? I was doing all right for somebody who hadn't really been into it. But like, now I'd go back for sure and get

killed. This just works on a different level for the kids who have grown up with that, right? Because for us, it was like, in high school, playing Golden Eye, right, and perfect dark. And, like, that was, like, first person shooting to me. And then in the Medal of Honor, single player games and stuff like that, but I didn't get into Halo, so I was never, like, playing competitive

shooters that way. And so it's just a weakness I feel in my thing of, like, I can't talk to Bobby or another call of duty player, Alfredo, or even Destiny people, really, right? And when it gets down to the mechanics of shooting and, like, aiming on the sites and doing list of things and knowing how to assess threats and get headshots easier and da-da-da-da-da. I play games and I have fun with them, right?

And I, like, for Titanfall, I invest a lot of time into it to get good at it. But I'm not great at it out of the box. I wish I was better just out of the box at, you know? Yeah, multiplayer shooters are interesting. I actually feel like I'm a really competent shooter player, but I don't play online. So it's like it's all based on my experience is playing gruelingly difficult campaigns or whatever. Yeah.

But even I ran it, you know, like we talk about World of War. Like, I cannot beat that game on veteran. Like I probably could if I really, really, really, really sat there, but I was losing my fucking mind. You know, I remember, like, I was like, I'm going to actually destroy everything in this room right now because this game is impossible. Yeah. I can't believe anyone beat that game on veteran. I, like, it's one of those frustrating moments where, like, I accept that I didn't be Battletoads. No one beat Battletoes.

I still don't think anyone ever be Battletoes. But like the, but like when I see World at War and people have platinum, I'm like, how did you do that? Yeah. Because I think I'm pretty good at shooters and I'd beat the other ones, all the other ones are a veteran. I don't know how you did like you dealt with this game to the point where I was telling you and I said it before like watching videos of people playing on better and online and like how they got through it by just fucking running to like get to the next checkpoint like just running yeah because they're monster claw like for some reason world the war is designed with like an infinite amount of enemies that's how wars are fun like where there's just monster clauses it's like you have to trigger certain things so like it's like you can't just sit there and like pick them off like I play uh like wolf like Wolof like Willyside the New Order was a really hard game on Uber um or it's even harder than that death and car it or whatever it is. And especially the last boss who's like fucking really hard.

But I beat it. But you can like be very meticulous, you know? Like chip away. Yeah, like you can just chill and like there's just ways to do it. But that was, I remember like what you're talking about? That's World of War's problem. Monster Clause is something that had been in war games forever.

I remember playing Medal of Honor or Call of Duty, whatever it was on Omaha Beach or whatever. And people just fucking keep coming at you. And you're sitting on the Gatling gun and there is coming out of this black hole. It's like, well, fucking fine. I remember I'm going to. run to the next thing to like cue whatever I need to queue and that's what it was you know what I mean.

Yeah, I was like these, a different design philosophy back then to keep you moving. The trigger to keep you moving was the end, but it wasn't overt. And on Omaha beach it probably makes sense, but not, not in typical, not what I'm like, you know, in the Pacific. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. It doesn't make any fucking sense at all. Yeah. Um, I think I killed every fucking person in that Japanese regiment. like five times so yeah so I think I'm like it would be interesting because first of all there are genres that don't take skill right so

role playing games don't take skill role playing games are and I love role playing games that's like one of my favorite genres It's not a knock you're not knocking on no so but it's like you level your characters up and you can you know

and I'm talking about traditional role playing games like Japanese role playing games like those aren't skill based games so like there's people can be good or bad as those I don't think that that's really possible. Like, if you really, just find the better equipment and the level of the character up.

Western role-playing games take a little bit more skill, but still aren't skill-based. I don't think Fallout 3 is a game that takes really any skill. Again, you can just if you know what you're doing, and you find the right armor and the right weapons, and using, especially with vats and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, for me, I think

it would be, well, I wouldn't say it. I think that Fallout was, requires less skill than most of the JRPs I've played. Like persona and stuff, you have to know how to interact, right? what weaknesses are, hit things in the right order, when to block shit like that.

Whereas fall, it was freeze time, shoot them. I'm out of vats, run and hide, you know, or whatever. Sure,

but I still think that the formulaic nature of, like, most Japanese role-playing games and strategy games, like, tactics is just, tactics takes more skill, but again,

if you just dedicate time to, like, you could just cheat the system, which, and it's not possible in a shooter, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

And then I think that I, I excel most at, you know, 2D platformers. So, and I think I'm, like, well above average in that genre. So

that's kind of like the lay of the land for me where I think my greatest strength is probably the old school eight-bit games and games like them because I just understand them on a different level I think that most people do. But then my weakness has come to the fore with like fighting games. Probably racing games

but I don't really give a fuck about racing games. I'm not great at them. And that's one of the interesting things to Scott's question. Any games genres you wish you were better at? This is going to sound offensive but stick with me. I wish I gave a shit about Mobus. You know what I mean? I've tried. I've had Brian Albert talk to me about them.

Like, I always talk to bring this up. People are always like, oh, you should play this, you should play that. I think you really like it if you gave it the 15 hours to get good at or whatever. My thing is, like, you understand that they've already made the moba I would have dreamt up. They're like, here's a moba that's all DC Comics characters. I played that game for five hours, and I was like, fuck this game. And like, not because it was bad, because I didn't understand the mechanics or what I was doing or how to work as a team around. There's just all this stuff that I didn't understand and I didn't want to understand.

And of course you're talking about Gotham City impostors. No, Gotham City's impostors, of course. A great first-person shooter. I'm talking about infinite crisis. Yeah, I mean, MoB's and all that should... That is not for me. And it's the same thing with MMOs. I know what they are, I don't care.

And that's okay. Yeah. People know... Like, there's some people that are like, why would you ever play an 8-fit side scroller? I'm like, that doesn't mortally offend me, so I don't really care if you don't like it. Like, not everything is...

For everybody. It's for everybody. So I know that those games exists. I told you I watched a League of Legends, um, or maybe was Dota. I don't even know. I can't even tell the difference between two at this point. I even though they're probably radically different games. It was one of the streams when we were still at IGN that like

Brian Albert was doing and those guys were doing it. I watched it for 10 minutes. I'm like, what the fuck is going on in this game? And it's not, it's not like, I'm sure you can understand it, but even then I'm like, you have to deal with other people and it's just everything I hate about video games is in those games. So I'm like, I'm so glad that they're proliferating and they're way bigger than the games I play and I accept that.

League Legends, Dota, too. These are huge fucking games, but they're not for me. And that's okay. That's so, to me, To you, I say, who cares? Like, play what you want to play. This is just in this question. Don't get me wrong. I'm not going out of my way to learn to give a shit about these games at all.

I'm just saying, like, I wish that if there was a genie here and he's like, you get, this is the one thing you got to wish for. I'm like, that's not a game thing. You got to, I'm like, all right, fine then. Make me understand and care about Mobas. I didn't play them. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, to me, I wouldn't, yeah. The only thing that pops out to me of the thing that I would care about that I, that I would

want to understand to be good at and be able to play with other people are, and ironically because you play them with other people is a fighting game. Yeah. But it's because I have such a deep, deep respect for that community and such a deep, deep respect for those games and the mechanical nature of those games and how some of those games are 15 or 20 years old and are still being played at a competitive level

and are still being broken and are still being exploited and explored. The fighting community is extraordinary. I watched Evo like in depth for the first time last year, and I think I talked about this on one of our shows at some point, maybe on Beyond when we were still doing it, was, I was like, wow, this is extraordinary. This is like an extraordinary community. This is the passion, the tension of these fights.

Yeah. Picking who's, like, guys that are good at two or three different characters. And so they have to pick the character that they think is going to be best against this other fighter's sensibilities and how he plays or she plays. I was like, it's very chess-like. Yeah. And that's why, and as people know, I'm a huge chess fan. So I think that fighting games are the closest thing we have, the chess in, interactive video games.

Think it moves ahead. It's awesome. Yeah, like, so that's the, like, I don't care about racing games. Like, I'm terrible Mario Car when we play it. And, like, I don't even like Mario Card. I don't care, you know, that's not going to change. But I do care about Street Fighter 5. I just don't know how to play it right, you know?

Sure. And I don't have the time to learn. I am not, you know, Vince and Genito, for instance, has shops in those games. He just understands those games. He breaks those games down. He's like Neo. Yeah, like, fighting games. But here's the thing, right?

he's me with fighting games the way I am with 2D platformers or old school games where I can play I watch people play shovel night I remember playing shovel night at PSX on on PS4 when they had it for the first time people like wow like you're really good at this game I already played this game a million times and be like I was always playing this like this like this I just understand how to play these games right right right another person might understand how to play a shooter that way or something like that so I wish I had that particular talent not only for 2D platformers not only for those kinds of games but also for these fight these 2D fighting games because they are so systemically complicated that you really can't just jump in and fuck around with them and think you're going to be good at them. You have to spend scores of hours understanding these characters, hundreds

of hours, thousands of hours, and I don't have that kind of time. So no one does. But people make, you know, these evil guys make time. Yep. To understand. And I'm not talking about Smash Brothers either because that's a very divisive game with fighting game communities. A lot of people, like Vince don't even think that's a fighting game. and I think I would agree in the traditional sense

I think it's more fun than a fighting game but I would love to understand like fucking blaze blue or king of fight you know like something like so nerdy so deep one of these like yeah one of these Ryan Clements games

yeah exactly yeah that's a good way of putting it that's what I do ladies you gentlemen that's been the kind of funny games cast episode 20 thank you so much for watching remember if you want to support us you can you go to patreon.com slash kind of funny games support us there get each and every episode early each and every if you don't want to give us any money no big deal you go to youtube.com slash kind of funny games we put up each and

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