Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Mad Max vs Metal Gear - Kinda Funny Gamescast Ep. 36

Episode Date: September 18, 2015

Colin explains why people should give Mad Max a chance, Tim and Greg try to convince Colin to jump into Metal Gear Solid 5, we question if The Big 3 actually do a good job of listening to their fans, and what games did we want to love, but just couldn't get into? (Released 09.11.15) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's sponsor is Luke crate. For less than $20 a month, Luke crate gives The Geek and You a special treat every month. Luke Crate is a subscription box service with $40 worth of geek, gamer, and pop culture gear, collectibles apparel, comics, etc., delivered to your mailbox every month. This month, they're celebrating all the monsters you can fit in your pocket, and the ones need some crazy circle drawing skills to bring to the mortal realm. This month's crate features an exclusive collectible they've told us is the most important object in pretty much the whole universe.

Plus, awesome items from Blizzard, Kid Robot, and more. You have until the 19th at 9 p.m. Pacific to subscribe and receive that month's crate, and when the cutoff happens, that's it, it's over. So go Lukecrate.com slash KF Games and entercode KF Games to save $3 on your new subscription today. And this episode's also brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the easiest way to create a beautiful website, blog, or online store for you and your ideas.

Squarespace features an elegant interface, beautiful templates, and incredible 24-7 customer support. Try Squarespace at Squarespace.com and entercode kind of funny at checkout to get 10% off. Squarespace, build it beautiful. What's up, guys. Welcome to the first ever, episode 36 of the conference. TanaFutty Games cast, as always. I'm Tim Geddes, joined by the coolest dudes in video games,

Colin Moyarty, and Greg Miller. It's good to be here with you today. I'm happy we're back. Yeah, you guys are back. We missed you last week. We were dead last week. I had to fucking put Nick Scarpino on this show. I know.

I'm so sorry for that. Jesus. One of my favorite things about having Nick on the show is just being able to introduce him. It's being like, at Nick. Because every time he just does that thing where he just looks at me. It hurts him a little bit. Yeah. And I like that.

He should start heard him a lot. He should stop. He should stop. He should start playing more games. It's one of the author. Sort of out. Did you guys see that the video that, it wasn't Tom Hawkins that made it. Someone else in the community made it of a super cut of Nick.

Like, it was just me and you talking about gameplay fans games. And he's like totally spacing out. Nick just spaces out and the camera just zooms in on it. And they like do Vietnam flashbacks and then naked women and stuff. Yeah, it was great. Oh, man. I like to imagine that's what's going on in Nick's brain all the time. It is.

I mean, you know, it's definitely nothing. It's not video games. Definitely not video games. Well, now it is. He's hooked on Metal Gear. He is. He yelled you and Kevin today to stop talking about. Metal Gear because you're past him.

Yeah, even though I don't think we are. But you know how it is when he's like, when he's like, you're like, wait, how did you get that guy out of that? He's like, stop. And you're like, well, that's every mission, Nick. Yeah. It's not like that big of a spoiler. Yeah, exactly. That there's guys, you need to find him.

Stop guys. Stop it. So it's going to be hard not to talk about Metal Gear this week. Metal Gear's awesome. I'm sure we're going to at some point. Yeah. Metal Gear's not one of the topics. It's been a topic a lot recently. Sure. Sick of hearing about it. Yeah, we're going to talk about it though. It's going to come up again. Don't worry about that.

The first topic is Mad Max, but you can't talk about Mad Max without talking about Metal Gear as far as I'm concerned. It's true. Without Metal Year, there would be no Mad Max. Exactly. That's kind of how things were as far as this episode. We got Mad Max. Mad Max. Mad Max.

Mad Max. We got Rebecca. It's close. This episode is brought to you by volume. Shout out to Mike Bethel. Yeah. It continues. Still waiting on that Vita version, Mike. Still waiting on that Patreon.

Still waiting on the Vita version. Maybe by the time the... All the shoutouts are done. It'll be out. The anger. No, did you see how well it's old? No. It's already done as much as Thomas was alone did in its first six months, I want to say.

I don't see anything about it. That's awesome. I'm going to check Mike's to Twitter. That's very cool. It's available on PS4, soon to be Vita, PC and Mac. For more information, follow at Volume Game on Twitter. So go do that. Thomas sent you.

It'll be a fun old time. What time we sent? You sound like, you know, kind of funny. I like to imagine that's the reason it's doing so well. I think it's me specifically. Well, yeah. You haven't seen the tweets. I mean.

Mike tweets are. That's going to be hard to get back to that. That's going to be good. The first topic of the day is why you need to play Mad Max. This is brought up by one Colin Moriarty. Well, I figured that we can't do a proper review of it because no one else is going to play it.

But I did want to talk about it because, A, people enjoyed the episodes, the little clips we did of Until Dawn and Metal Gear Solid 5 in which we just talked about the games and why we liked them. So I figure we'll just kind of, I'll present the game to you guys just like we did with those, and then you can ask questions and air your comments and concerns

about just a fantastic game. That's my first question, actually, is since technically this is going up to, we're recording today, but it'll go up later. Are you ready to declare it game of the decade? Because anybody's been watching, Colin and Greg Live, knows that it went from Mad Max is okay, Mad Max is good, Mad Max is fantastic today in real time, tomorrow will clearly be game with a year. I never said it was okay. I always said it was good. So Mad Max is an open world third-person game by Avalanche, the proper Avalanche studio. So, I mean, there's two studios now at Avalanche.

The American team's doing Just Cause. So the team up in Scandinavia is doing this game. Did Mad Max. And it's based on the Mad Max lore kind of. You play as Max, but it's just like any Mad Max movie, you really, really don't really need to know what's going on in the story to understand what the world, like the stakes of the world. I'd always say, especially with Fury Road, but I think even with the trilogy,

that Mad Max doesn't really have a plot. It's like it's just about the world Yeah it's that's what's so cool about it is that it's very I feel like it's the first one is very plot heavy But the the it's more about the world I think and like what happens in that world and so like that how quickly it decays Which I think is cool because a lot of A lot of A lot of post-spacclopic stories are about Like the road for instance is about like we don't know what happened and

It's sometime afterwards or Like a couple decades afterwards or the last bus is a couple decades afterwards or fallouts hundreds of years later but with Mad Max, it seems to happen. The disaster is nondescript, all-encompassing. It seems to happen pretty quick. So the game is a lot of fun, and I think that it's being somewhat criminally overlooked by a lot of people.

And I understand Metal Gear Solid 5, I'm sure, is probably a better game. It's kind of a big deal. But I think that Mad Max stands up pretty nicely in its own. I'm not quite sure why they decided to release it on the same day as Metal Gear. I think they had plenty of time to not do that.

If they released it a couple weeks earlier, I think more people would have played I would have sold many more copies probably. But the game combines some Batman-like combat. I think dumped down a little bit from Batman, but I think I personally don't feel like Batman. I know people like Batman. That's great.

I enjoy playing those games too. I don't find the combat deep at all in those games. A lot of people... So this is dumbed down based on what you already says in a deep. Yeah, exactly. You're basically just mashing the button. And I know people are like, well, you can do this, this and this in Batman. I'm like, well, the game doesn't force you to do it.

You don't have to do anything. You know? Yeah. If the game wants to be clever, it should force you to be clever. This game doesn't make any... pretense is about being clever. You're basically just hitting the square button to attack and then hitting the triangle. But when someone tries to attack you to counter them. Gotcha. Circle to kind of roll out of the way and so with that. So it's very basic. But I find the comment to be quite visceral and quite satisfying. Mad Max has this thing called a Fury meter where the more combo you get like you get more and more angry basically more powerful in your attacks. You start healing yourself as you attack. He does things like body slam people and do all. It's actually quite for as simple as it is in premise. It's actually quite simple. You also have a shotgun but you have very limited ammo so you don't have to use it. And I don't. use it really at all. What about the enemies you're going up against? They have guns?

None of them that I fought yet had to have guns, except for snipers. They have guns. Sure. But everyone's ammo is somewhat scarce. There might be enemies in the future with shotguns or something like that. But people have like baseball bats and just use fists and breast knuckles and stuff. Now, the one thing I think is really great about Mad Max is its style. And I was telling Greg that, I think that no game makes a desert look prettier. This isn't technically a desert. It used to be ocean, I guess.

then, like, except for Journey, than Mad Max. Like, the game's actually really beautiful. And, uh, there's actually like stunning vistas and, uh, really, just a really quite a lot of, quite a lot of time put into the environments. And I think the environment's really cool. And also the enemies are cool because what, what's so fascinating to me about Mad Max's world is that everyone's fucking crazy.

It reminds me a lot of what I've read and heard about theories about Batman, about how everyone's insane in that world, even Batman. Yeah. And it's just a level of how insane or not insane you are. Sure. And that's kind of the case in this world. Like, Max is just as crazy in many ways as everyone else in the world. Interesting. It's just that everyone else in the world has lost their minds.

And so you get a lot of really cool enemy types and people painting their faces and just fighting with whatever and eating dog food to survive and maggots and all sorts of things. It's just a really dead and dire world. So it's cool to explore that. I understand why some people are not paying attention to it. But I think that the game's fun. It's very, there's a lot to do. It's very inspired, I think, by Ubisoft games in terms of, big worlds in which you, especially far cry,

I think in which you kind of go from territory to territory and kind of unlock things in those territories and take over forts and destroy things and kind of slowly bring it back under your control. So you're talking about you understand why people are overlooking you. Talk about do you understand why reviewers didn't like it, why it got middling scores?

Yeah, I think, I mean, frankly, no. I actually, I've talked to you about I think people are being unusually hard on this game. Yeah. And that's fine. I mean, you know, people are entitled not to like the game. I mean, people don't like the game. That's fine. I'm not calling anyone in the question about that. But the general way I've heard people talk about the game is like I'm a little confused about why people feel a certain way about it.

For instance, I've read a lot about how it's so like very samey and some of the character models are the same or some of the places you go are the same. And I'm like, first of all, I've not really found that, especially with the locations. I think the locations are quite diverse. But even if that's the case, like we love Fallout 3 with its four character models and it's like three interiors. And a world, frankly, the capital wasteland, frankly, a much less compelling world than this. So, and the same thing with New Vegas. love those games very much. I'm not saying these games as good as fall,

and I'm saying that those worlds have hold nothing. They have repetition. They have nothing compared to, sure, to like the Mad Max world in terms of how dire it is. So yeah, like, I think people,

I think, I'm sorry, I was just gonna say, I think it might be a product of people, and this is what I've been predicting for a long time, people are getting tired of open world games. And I'm kind of getting tired of them too,

but I think that I like what this particular world holds for me. Do you think that the reason people are being hard on this one, and you're comparing it to Fallant, you're comparing it to just cause these different, things, is there anything Mad Max excels at? You're talking about the combat is repetitive. You know what I mean? It's even dumb down versus Batman, which you don't like.

The, you know, environments are repetitive. Is there a story that's bringing it all together that makes it awesome? Well, so I think that the, first of all, I think the environments are repetitive because the world's fucking dead. So like, like, what are you supposed to look at? Like, I, this is, the one thing I said about Mad Max that I think resonated with me as a Mad Max fan of a fan of the lore, but also just a fan of the game, is that this might just have been as good as they could have done.

Because the world of Mad Max isn't, there's nothing funny about it. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like, and there's no normal people in it. It's not like fallout where people are like trying to make like lead kind of normal lives and stuff like that. And there's a kind of a comedic edge to it. Like I don't find that in Madamax's world. The world's fucking dead and everyone's trying to kill each other. They're eating each other. You know,

they're like, it's just a decaying, totally collapsing world full of sandstorms and awful weather and things turn on a dime. Now, you were talking about the story. There is a story, and I don't think the story is very important, and I don't think the story is very compelling. The one thing I like about the story more than anything else are the little things you find called history relics,

which are pictures and stuff in, like, notes that you find, where it shows the world before Decatur while it was decaying and how the world remained normal even when it was decaying until, like, a turning point happened in which everything kind of fell apart. And I like it because Max doesn't really speak very much in the game, but he speaks a lot when you pick up these relics. He, like, talks to himself about, like, the pestilence that happened and the crops family.

and the water disappearing and how we took everything for granted and stuff like that. And I think there's like a more, much like anything George Miller touches, I guess, in respect of this franchise, there's a deeper kind of meaning if you want to find it. But that's not maybe the reason you'd play the game. So what sounds interesting to me is that why did this need to be a video game? Because you're saying this is as good as it you think it can get for a Mad Max thing. And it just sounds like, okay, the plot's not that good and the combat's not that deep. But then it's like, well, why isn't it just a movie?

You know, I feel like with Batman, like being like the days of licensing. things being bad is essentially like not a fact anymore. It's no longer a guarantee. It's going to be bad. But with Batman, you know, people like Batman. A Batman game makes sense. You know, being able to play as Batman makes sense.

Being able to play Mad Max isn't necessarily something like seeing the like the movies. It's not like, I need to play this. You know? Yeah, I don't, I mean, this is the first time they really try to do something like this. And I don't necessarily disagree that. However, cursory, it's related to, you know,

Fury Road. seems clear like those those were trying to be aligned with each other. Sure, cash in that. You know, back years,

even when the movie finally got off the ground after many years of trying to make it. Yeah, I mean, it's a valid question, and I don't necessarily think this game's for everyone.

I would, like, I feel like a game I really enjoy, like dying light, can relate to a lot of people. I feel like, even a game like Arkham Night,

which I think is overrated, is still a fun game, and I understand why people like it, and I think it's got great presentation value. I think the reason that I think it's not going to get much better for Mad Max than this

is the same reason why I think you probably couldn't make a much, a very, like a 9.5 or a 10 game on the road. Like the road is my favorite post-apocalyptic anything that's ever been made. But it's like really dire and dark. And at some point, like, there's no hope in that world. And Mad Max, there's no hope. The whole, the whole story's about him trying to find a place that doesn't even exist. So he doesn't have to live in this world anymore.

I'm what the story's about. You know what I mean? Because the immediate way to pinprick that theory would be the Last of Us, but there's hope and the last of us. So I'm with you. Yeah, exactly. The Last of Us is all about hope. Yeah.

And in a way. It doesn't start out that way. way, but it starts out with a lot of loss. But I mean, the last of us becomes all about hope. Sure. Hope solo. Hope solo, exactly. So, like, I'm a little conflicted on Mad Max in terms of, like, I kind of get why people

might not resonate with people. I think it's a bit more about people's sensibilities to worlds that have no redeeming qualities to them, because that's what Mad Max is. And that's why I've always really been drawn to it. It gets a little campy and weird at times and as things like from that era do. But, you know, I think that. the game is worth playing. I think if you like games where you check boxes,

which is basically what this is, then I think you're really going to like it because there's a lot of boxes to check. There's super deep customization options in terms of upgrading your character. Well, let me back up. The systems are actually surprisingly deep, and I like them, although I don't know

that everyone would like them. So there's like these, there's like hundreds of challenges that you complete. The challenges can be like, kill 10 guys with this thing, eat dog food five times, find 30,000 units of water,

whatever it is. And then you, for each one you check off, they will just pop up and be like, you completed this one, and then you get an experience point. Then you use the experience points

to upgrade your character, and you unlock, like, higher and higher levels, and, like, so you're ranked, there's like 10 rankings or whatever. And within each ranking is like 10 sub-rankings where you can, like, you know,

put your points into, like, getting more health or doing more damage or finding more loot when you, you know, like those kinds of things. So there's like that upgrade system. Then there's like a whole thing about, uh,

the Magnum Opus, which is your car, and how you can upgrade, that. And there's like, I think, 18 different ways you can upgrade that. And each way you upgrade it, there's like, could be up to like a dozen ways to upgrade it within each of those things. So, like, you're upgrading the fender, you're upgrading the wheels,

you're upgrading the tires, you're upgrading, like, your defenses and all that kind of stuff. So there's that whole thing. Then there's, like, dozens of cars to find. Like, you can jack other gang's cars and, like, add them to your collection, use them in races and all those kinds of things to earn more experience points. And then there's, so, like, there's just a series of things to unlock. There's, like, fortresses

that you unlock, and then you build them up and so like that. So it's just a game where you're like slowly just becoming more powerful. And you just either have to have the motivation to do that or not. So in each territory there are like gangs running that territory and so like you have to disrupt their supply chains. You have to find their minefields and destroy them. You have to find

their watch towers and they put things up called scarecrowes that show that they own this territory. You like rip them down with your car. They have like fortresses and own oil like oil encampments where they're like still harvesting oil or water or whatever. You destroy those. And like slowly you just, the map just turns from red to yellow and like these little places. And so it's very far cry like. And I

love Far Cry. So, yeah, Far Cry's great. Because I think Far Cry just gives you all these boxes to check.

There's a lot of shit to do in the game. So it's not, if you're looking for a game with like very literal like Last of Us like plot, you're not going to find that in Mad Max.

That's not what Mad Max is about. And so I think that anyone who's looking for something like that doesn't really understand Mad Max. And that's fine, you know, but that's still a valid complaint

if that's what you're looking for. I just don't think that you would go into Mad Max looking for that. Fury Road is awesome. And Fury Road is not really about anything. It's about a man and him's trying to help these concubines, whatever,

get away from this thing. But all of the storytelling is in the aesthetic. It's not in the, in, no one's telling you. Exactly, there's no, like, there's no, Fury Road is a two-hour side quest. And that's, does, do you see it? Yeah, I don't like it. Yeah, I watched it on the way movies are meant to be watched

on the back of a Virgin America screen. Good Lord. God forbid, you put it out day and day digital, I watch on my TV. The point I'm making there, though, is the fact that isn't an insult, but it is like, people, you know, at the end, spoilers? Matt, Matt, you.

you know, Max turns his back and walks away, right? On to his next adventure. You know what I mean? It's totally just like, I could totally, this isn't about him. This is just like some side thing that popped. The exclamation mark went off as he was walking and got engaged with it. I think his man, Max has gone on through these films.

Like, it's become less about Max. Max is almost like an avatar. It's about, it's about the world. The world is the story. The world is the main character. And like,

so in Fury Road, to me, that movie was awesome. I fucking loved that movie. I think a movie is extraordinarily good. but it has very little dialogue. It uses a lot of camera tricks. It's all about like people jumping on the cars and fucking fighting each other.

But like that's not really what it's about. Yeah. You know, it's a little bit about hope and a little bit about family and, and decay and all these kinds of things. I think the movie's actually a lot deeper

than even people give you credit for, but it's not literal. And I think that a lot of that can be found in this game. I wouldn't compare Avalanche's Mad Max with Fury Road. I think Fury Road is an extraordinary movie. I don't think that Mad Max is an extraordinary game at any time because to answer Greg's question that he asked a while ago, Like, what does it do extraordinarily well or, like, do exceptionally well?

Probably nothing. You know? But it does, everything it does very good. Like, very well. And that's, and I think that that's more than a lot of games can say. Yeah. I think the biggest thing going against it is the Metal Gear thing and the fact that everyone's playing Metal Gear and they came out the same date.

But do you think that that really is going to affect this game in the sense that how you're describing this, it really sounds like you need to like Mad Max a lot. You like the world and then you will, you will enjoy it because you enjoy what Mad Max is. Would it be enjoying it? able to people that aren't Mad Max players if this game had come out in a time when there wasn't other games around. I think it would have helped just in the sense that like it came out

in July. It would have been a little closer to Fury Road. People would have seen Mad Max and they would have bought it, right? So I think that there's some association to sales and I'm not even talking about sales though. I'm talking about would people enjoy the game? You know? Maybe, maybe now they're not because they're all playing Metal Gear, but I feel the people that want to play Mad Max, regardless

of Metal Gear, are still going to play it because they're Mad Max fans. Well, I think that, I think people are playing. I think more people are playing Mad Max than people realize. I think that, I think that, I mean, people tweet me all the time about the game. They're playing. And I even got, you know, one, one buddy of ours that we know through our shows in the past where reached out to me was like, I'm surprised by how much I like Mad Max. And I think that's, that's kind of the feedback that I've been getting is when you see a game

along a spectrum where it's getting like nines and it's getting like fives, that's not really that common for a AAA game. Usually people settle a little more. There's always an outlier, but people settle a little bit more in some place. And some people like fucking are blown away by this game, which I'm not blown away by it. some people are like don't like it at all and they get boring and sterile and I don't agree with that either. So no, I think there are probably a pre-weckercocits. I think more than liking Mad Max because again, I think you can go into this without having ever seen Mad Max and get something out of it.

It's more about liking unique and different kind of post-apocalyptic worlds that, you know, aren't necessarily trying to shove a story or character down your throat as much as much as it's trying to shove just an experience down your throat. And I think that there's like, maybe I'm reading too much into it. maybe I'm reading too much into Mad Max generally and always have, but I just feel like there's something about that world that demands some thought. And I think that that is juxtaposed intentionally against its clown-like enemies and it's over-the-top car combat

and all these things that are very easy to understand. And you just have to rectify those two things. And I think that's the whole idea. It's like these car, these fucking gangs are dressed like clowns, basically, and are just jumping from car to car and killing themselves. Like, they don't care. and that doesn't seem to make any sense with a world that is deep

and decaying and there's something to be said about the world and the world that used to be there but I think that's the idea. So I recommend Mad Max. Maybe people will not, you know, if you're not like totally sold on,

maybe you wait till it's $40 or $30, I'm sure it's going to get discounted pretty severely at some point. So maybe you wait, but I do think timing is everything I don't understand why they selected this time. I do think it's going to hurt the game. I think it's hurting the game.

But I still think the game's doing well. I still expect that old chart on NPD and so like that. Interesting. Yeah. So, yeah, we'll see.

So, I mean, that's Mad Max. I don't know if I did a good job talking about it. That's about as much as we're going to talk about it because I don't expect

anyone else to really play it. So we can't do a review, at least a timely one. But I think I'm, a lot of people are thinking I'm trying to be contrarian by not playing Metal Gear and that's going to get into our next topic.

But I am playing Mad Max, but I'm excited about Mad Max. And I'm excited about Mad Max for a while. And I'm glad that I finally played it. It, the way I explained it to Greg was that it didn't, it didn't meet my expectations if I was expecting something great out of avalanche,

like really, really fantastic out of A year ago. And then when they stopped talking about it, and things seemed kind of muddled, and I was like, alright, something's wrong with this game. But there's actually not anything wrong with it. It just is what it is.

And it does what it does well. That's the whole thing is just there's nothing wrong with it, but there's nothing great about it. You know what I mean? Like I'm listening to talk about it, I'm like, yeah, that sounds great, but by the time I'm done with Metal Gear or whatever, you know, maybe I jump back into the Witcher

if I want those checkboxes marked. If I don't with that world, maybe I was waiting for Just Cause 3 in December, which looks amazing. You know what I mean? Like, that's its biggest thing. It's not just Metal Gear. I just think that it's coming out against a bunch of other things where there are games doing things. We're getting a point where there's a lot of games coming out that are going to be awesome.

Yeah, I will say this, though, like that, and I want to say this about The Witcher. I know it's not going to be a popular thing, but the more I've thought about the Witcher in my time with it, I enjoyed it, but it's like not this be all end all game. Like, it's just not. And in my mind, you know, and I think, like, people are giving its story a little too much credit and its side quest a little too much credit. and it's side quest a little too much credit and stuff. I think it's a fun game. I think it's an enjoyable game. I think it's one of the better games of the year for sure.

I enjoyed my time with it, but I don't necessarily think Witcher is the high mark of open world role-playing games or storytelling at all. And so that's not necessarily a congruent comparison to me in terms of like, well, I'd go back to the Witcher to check these boxes. And I'm like, well, if we're talking about checking boxes, I'm not so sure Witcher does it better than Mad Max.

You know? But that's just my opinion. I feel like people are really high on this game. And I'm kind of questioning in some way, is why, and that's coming from someone who spent like 80 hours with it. So it's not like I didn't see something in it, and I enjoy it very much. But I think it's back to what I was saying, right? You're saying the fact that it's among the best games of the year, right?

Witcher does something great. Mad Max doesn't sound like it does anything great. I think Witcher's world is what's great about it. Yeah, and it's characters, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, again, I want to be clear that I like the Witcher. No, yeah, you put a much time. I might even like it more than Mad Max, but I'm trying to say in terms of a procedural

kind of like I'm looking to just play and check boxes. I'm not so sure if you're just playing these two games, that one is necessarily that much better than the other. You know? But that's just my take on it. I will say driving around the car in the wasteland, very satisfying.

Very satisfying. That world is very dark and dire, man. I love it. Windsor, like these terrible storms just happened out of nowhere to and you have to like find shelter and so it's a pretty game.

They made a pretty game too. But I'm going to be interested to see what people out there think of it. Yeah. I know that a lot of people are busy. This is a game that they're going to get to later. And so we'll probably have like kind of a more retroactive conversation about it in the near future

as opposed to like this isn't the game of the right now. this is bad timing. I don't know why I've only did that, but yeah, I'd be interested to hear what people think about it. Yeah, if you're playing it,

go over to the forums, kind of funny.com slash forms, and make a topic about a thread. There'll be a topic about it by now. Yeah, probably. And you should. Let us know your thoughts.

I don't think you'd like it, but I think you should, you should play it. Yeah. So something I do like, Metal Gear Solid 5. My God. I'm loving it.

I'm loving it so much. I'm so happy to see you. When you started tweeting about it this week, I was like, yes. Finally. It's just, it's so good. Yeah. And it's good for all the reasons that I have been complaining about being scared about it.

All the Peacewalker stuff. All the open world. It's like, oh, man, I don't like open world. We've discussed this so many times. I don't like that. I don't like the lack of the Metal Gear story that I've been hearing about. I don't like how much shit that I have to do that's not just linear. Yeah.

Playing it, all that's out the window. I'm like, I love this game. I'm having fun. I want to keep playing it. And the story so far, is that I don't think it's different and it's not as given to me piece by piece as I'm used to, but it's like, it's getting there. It's all coming together. If you listen to those cassette tapes, son. And I've been listening. And I love that.

Yeah. I have issues with it. I don't like. It's a dumb way to do it because I don't listen to them. I'm listening to them now 85 hours later when I'm doing side ops. Yeah. But the side op X for the 15th time. That's what I'm like, yeah, tell me about Afghanistan. Tell me all about it. Exactly. What's going on in Afghanistan. But what I don't like about is you don't see their faces. like with the codex. And a lot of the voices in this game, I'm like, you all sound exactly the same.

Really? Oh, Miller and Oslo? A lot of the, yeah, just a lot of the tapes. I'm like, I don't know who's talking. And Snake as well. It's like, he just knows. He doesn't talk. But when he does talk, it's like,

he doesn't talk enough for me to like identify with that, the voice at all. Anyways, like, there's all those issues I have with it. But I'm loving it as a huge fan of the Metal Gear franchise. Right. Now, the reason you're not playing this is that you feel like you haven't played enough of the, the prequels or the prior games to be able to play this.

Well, there's two reasons. A, is that I just am not that interested in it. And there's other games that I'd rather play mad. I'd rather play... I'd authentically rather play Mad Max of Metal Gear. It just speaks to me more. But yeah, it's something that Greg and I were talking about that I thought would be an interesting conversation, which is like, also I played just a very little bit of three and maybe

like half of four, and I didn't play Peace Walker. So I'm a huge fan of Metal Gear Solid 1 and 2, and I'm a huge fan of the original Metal Gear, which I think is actually a fantastic game. especially for its time. But yeah, it brought up a question to me of like, I'm seeing a lot of people not playing, having never played a metal gear game before,

this series with a 28 year history now. And 29 year history and never play a metal gear game and then jumping into this one. And I was like, it's not a right or wrong kind of answer because I think that it's a case-by-case kind of basis. I think there are some things that you obviously shouldn't jump into without having experienced other things first.

And there are some things that you could do that. And this might be a game for that, but it still strikes me as weird. And I feel inauthentic being either excited or wanting to play a middle-legged or solid five, when I'm not even sure what happened in three at all. And then in four, I have no idea how it ended. And I never played Beastwager. Yeah. So it's like, that brought up a question, which is open-ended a question without a right or wrong answer,

which is like, what should people be allowed to jump into a series? And is it more of a case, they should be allowed to do whatever they want? But is it smart to be able to jump into a series? And the example that I wanted to use of Witcher we just brought up is a great example. I didn't play Witcher 1 or 2, mostly because I heard Witcher 1 isn't very good. And Witcher 2,

I just never got around to play. And so I jumped into Witcher 3, and I think I got something out of it, and I enjoyed my time with it. But I also know I was missing a lot. And so I don't talk about Witcher in any authoritative way, even though I spent more time with it

than probably most people, because I don't think that I'm in a position to do that. And I think that it would be kind of inauthentic of me to be like, I'm a Witcher fan. You know? I don't know anything about it. I don't even know two-thirds of it. But now you could be because you've played that game.

I think it's inauthentic to say, I'm a Metal Gear Solid fan and not having played anything for Metal Gear Solid, but only knowing what you've seen in Metal Gear Solid 5 trailers. If you sit down to play it, I think it's a different story. I think you could finish a game that's the fifth installment, the third installment for the first time, and then be like, now I'm a fan of this franchise, this world. And I think that games, especially nowadays,

they're designed to bring in new audiences. And playing the different Metal Gear games, just from a gameplay perspective, it's like, this franchise specifically, story-wise, are you going to be lost as hell? Yes, but it doesn't matter. You can have played all the games. You're still going to be lost.

And also, the story, at least, so far, you don't need to have played the other things. They tell you everything pretty straight up. If there's something that you need to know, they usually, like, the whole, like, I mean, they recap ground zeros, right, in mission, the beginning of mission one, or no, the bridge between mission one and two. Yeah. And it's like, they give you enough. Like, I did think that wasn't as fleshed out as it should have been. Sure. Like, I think, I don't understand why ground zero's wasn't part of this game.

I'm happy it wasn't because I already played it, but it's like, I feel like this kind of key. Oh, you wish they would have just. just had that be a mission. Gotcha, gotcha. But the recap they did, it does give you the bullet points of what you need to know. And that's just from a story perspective.

But from a gameplay perspective, it's such a different game from 4. I mean, it's more similar to Peace Walker, but even then it's different. Yeah. And it's like, I feel like you could be a fan of Metal Gear Solid 5. You don't need to be a fan of Metal Gear Solid

to be able to... I mean, this is what we have to go back to when I talk about in the review, right, is the fact that I think Kajima took to heart, you know, criticisms from all of them, but especially four, right? Because four and five are the perfect examples for what we're talking about here.

You and I fought tooth and nail at the old job to keep Metal Gear Solid 4 off every PS3 top 25 list. And I'm the second opinion on the Perfect 10 masterpiece, and I still think it's a masterpiece, but I think Metal Gear Solid 4 is a masterpiece for Metal Gear Solid fans. Sorry, Metal Gear Solid fans. If you don't know anything about the Metal Gear, under no circumstance, start with 4, you will have no idea what's happening,

why this matters, why it's insane to go back to Shadow Moses. You know what I mean? Yeah. All the moments in that game where I was like, oh my God, like they're lost on you. I feel like the gameplay is plot driven in four. Yeah, exactly. And much more so than any of the other.

Yeah, 100%. In Metal Gear Solid 5 is the continuation of all the criticism from that. Whereas I always said, Peace Walker was a great standalone story. You can drop in. All you need to know is that you're the super soldier. You killed your mentor. You were kind of in love with her. There's a lot of questions.

Oh my God, there's a tape with her voice on it recorded last week. What do you do? That's all you need to know. And that's explained in the very beginning in one awesome, you know, animated cut scene or comic book cutscene you're out there and it's the same thing with five for the most part right of just like you wake up and the prolog is meant to be completely disorienting even if you have played this game you don't know exactly what's happening it's scary it's frightening you're terrified of what's happening and then you get the little recap after that of like where we are on the story and then you go and the hook to this game is the gameplay it's not like metal gear two where it was like if you were if you weren't a fan you're even more lost than usual and who is the solidist and really he was the president but he has octopus arms what the hell's happening you know what I mean like This is the point of this game is to get people involved and get them in there. And what's really interesting to me is seeing our Facebook group, like, every day for the last two months, someone made a new topic.

Do I need to play through the first four and a half metal gear games or whatever it is? Not a half, but four plus metal gear games to be able to play this. And it's like, it got to the point where people were getting upset. It's like, guys, check the freaking thing. People are asking this every day. Maybe it's just because Facebook's a garbage pile and you can't keep any. There's threads everywhere. How do I know what any of this is?

Go to the forums, talk there. But the thing with that, though, is the fact that this is a question. People are discussing whether or not, because people do feel like inauthentic or whatever. I think that's less of a, that's more of a hardcore gamer thing where it's like a pride point for someone like you that's like very prideful of the games that you play and, you know, the legacy that all that has. But I also just think from a, there's a lot of people that just want to enjoy this thing and they want to know, can I enjoy it without. I mean, the dozens of tweets I've gotten. And I want to even say dozens a day of people who are like, oh, man, you're, you're, you're, you're, Let's plays and your review sold me on it.

It's my first Metal Gear, and I love it. It's like, great, that's awesome. You know what I mean? Because that is always a concern that I'm like, yeah, you could jump into Metal Gear 5, but I've, you know, loved this game and this story forever, right? Now, to your other point, Witcher 3, right?

Witcher 3 was the one where it was coming out, and it was getting hyped and all this cool stuff. And I'm like, this sounds like what I want right now. I want a world to get lost, and I want all this stuff. And jumping in and playing it, like, totally. I'm enjoying it. I was having a great time, and I'm like, I love Tris.

Tris is awesome. I'm going to have sex with her and I did And I was like I choose you Pokemon And I'm like you're gonna be my girlfriend And then Yenifer shows up and I'm like Oh man, Yenifer's such a bitch da da da da da da da And then I tell that to Christine Which was a huge mistake because she went back and played

One and two to get ready for three Like she never played him before so she's like Miss Witcher right and she's like you don't even know And she dumps all this information on About the story on me that I was like Didn't know any of that That was never explained in the game Maybe if I would have gone back and read

you know, all the appendices or whatever. I would have seen it or whatever. But I didn't know that. But for me, I'm still enjoying going forward, but I am definitely not connected to it like you are, right? She's putting up YouTube videos every day, debating choices and what happened here. And I was always like, I don't kill it.

Sure. Tris, you know what I mean? Like, it's just an easier thing for me because I don't have that investment. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think to me it's a case-by-case kind of basis. And that's what I was saying. Like, I don't know if there's really a right or wrong answer.

Like, the right answer for me with Metal Gear 5 is I have no business playing that game. Really, at the end of the day. I don't get that though. And to me, it's like, because I know Metal Gear Solid 1 and I know Metal Gear Solid 2, Metal Gear Solid 3 just didn't speed. Metal Gear Solid 3 got way too granular. Metal Gear Sal 4, which is not very good in my opinion. And I really want to go back and play those games again and just experience it. But I think also my mindset is based on what I think Metal Gear should be and not what Metal Gear has become in the sense that like I was dismayed and actually really disappointed and actually really disappointed and even more turned off when I heard that the game like has no story.

I was like, how is that even possible? It has a story. It's just not the traditional metal gear. Yeah. But like. See, that's the thing though. having played, I'm like 15 hours in now, like, I'm right there with you. Like, I play Metal Gear mainly for the story.

The gameplay is like second to me. But it's like, this is totally winning me over the other way where the gameplay is awesome. And there is a story. All those reviews scared me. Like, even talking to Gray early on, I was like, man, playing it, there is story. It's like, it's not like those things aren't there. It is very Metal Gear. Like, I was even telling Great this last night.

Like, there's, I was worried that there wasn't like the group, you know, like the enemies that you're like, oh shit, there's these skills. scary things out there that I'm going to have to fight. They're there. You know, they're not as... But you said that they weren't there. They're not... But he's talking about the skull unit and their skull face and then there's the skulls or

whatever. Yeah, there is... But it's not like, there's not fat man. There's not fortune. There's not... Yeah, they're not like individual personalities, but there is a group of them. And it's like... I don't think it's as dire as you think it might be.

Because, I mean, at least it wasn't for me. And I was worried. I was so scared about not liking it because of those things. Yeah, my intent is to get to it eventually. and like it's not really a priority. But for me, I just need to play three and four. I don't think I'm going to play Peace Walker. I just don't want to.

What's interesting about that is like you just, you don't need to. But I feel like I should not need to, but I feel like I just feel like first of all, going backwards after playing five is probably going to be really difficult. And in terms of gameplay mechanics, especially with tank control,

especially the way three feels, although three is, you know, an improvement from one and two and four obviously is very different in terms of gameplay. But it was just, it was just one of those things where I was like, I consider myself a Metal Gear fan up to a certain point

in time. And so I would, I've always meant to go back and play those games again and this might be the good excuse to do it. But I also think about you know, I think about my own the games that I've jumped into without having any context, which is a great idea, a great one and how I didn't, like to Greg's point, I didn't really know what I was missing in ignorance

is kind of bliss. But no offense to the Witcher series, which is based on, you know, Polish novels and people really enjoy those games and enjoy those stories. And they're probably more coherent stories, maybe even better told stories in Metal Gear, but no one's running around really wondering about and dissecting the shit out of Witcher lore compared to the way that they do with Metal Gear. And so, like, I, like, Metal Gear is like really almost an anomaly, even amongst story-driven games in terms

how people are obsessed with it and, like, people have different interpretations of the same exact things that are happening. And so I want to be able to go back and play it. It struck me as a bizarre game for people to jump into without no, without any context. And I understand people are doing that and they're enjoying it. I'm glad people need to do what they need to do. But, It doesn't it's not like Castlevania or something where a Mega Man where it's like it doesn't really matter like this story's a story if you care But it doesn't really matter Yeah It's like it's not like that

But it's not like that But it's still Somewhere along the line there was the break between gameplay and story with Metal Gear and I think that That's that it well I think even It was like it was four that took the first Four was the one where it's it I think you saw the branching path of where they wanted to go Yeah four like one two and three you see the very clear like

line. Four was the one where they changed the gameplay entirely, made it an action game, and then it was a story game. Like you, you needed to play the other ones to get that, at least one and two. Three helps a lot. And you'd have to play that. Then Peace Walker was just, all right, we're going to take the gameplay elements of four and give it a standalone story. And this is kind of just the continuation of that. So really, Peace Rock is the one that you need to play in order to understand any of the story and stuff like that. Obviously, if you play through all of them, you're going to get the little details here and there

that make it more complete. But, I mean, at least so far, there's nothing that I'm like, oh, man, I'm happy I play it through all the other Metal Gear's to know all of this stuff. Yeah, I respect that. I think I just respect, like, I think people give a Kojima. I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like this is my way of respecting what Kojima has done,

which is to say, like, I don't want to just, I don't want to just run to the end, you know? Like, there's middle chapters that might, not be that pertinent that I still feel like are important for me to understand. And a lot of people give Cochima's shit for his kind of over-the-top storytelling and stuff like that. But I think that's part of his charm. I think that's almost, I think that's 90% of Metal Gear's charm. You know, there are games that play better than Metal Gear. There are games that look better than all of them. Well, not five, though. That's the thing, man. Like, five plays so well. And it's beautiful.

Like, I don't think it's getting enough credit for how amazing it looks. I mean, I've watched Greg played. I think it's a pretty game. I don't think it's a very pretty and good-looking game. And my personal opinions, I don't think it's like the fucking B-all end-all of games looks. And I don't really, I don't care about that either. That's not really, that's like one of the least important things to me is the way a game looks. It's fun. But this is more of me like not casting any judgments or pause on anyone, but rather to say, like, I kind of respect the legacy of this game, these games too much. And I still feel like I need, I want to put three back on my Vita and just fucking get through it.

You know, and four, I played half of it, maybe even a little more. And I was like, eh, like, just take the time. Take like the week it would really take me if I just did it to get those games out of the way. And then maybe take a look at Peace Walker and just see. Or I could just watch like a video. that it recaps the story or whatever, but I just feel like I want to be more authentic. It reminds me a lot of, like, I said there's like examples of things that I think you can get away with and things that you can't get away with in terms of story and like jumping in whatever. It's like you wouldn't see Return of the Jedi without seeing Empire Strikes back.

That wouldn't make any sense. You'd have no content. You know what the fuck's going on. You can pretend like you do, but you don't. And you don't know any of these characters. You know what the fuck happened to Han, who Boba Fed is, like any of these guys at all. And I think that that's a clone that wasn't programmed. And I think that that's like a relevant.

So I think that there's relevant ways to look at both things and to kind of try to. to pay homage to the entirety of the story or whatever. My hope with Metal Gear Solid 5 with people that are jumping into it fresh and decide to play it without having played the other games is that they do take the time to go back and look at the other Metal Gear Game. And they will last about 10 seconds as Nick Scarpino did on the plane trying to figure out how to control Metal Gear Solid Gear Solid 2.

They just don't hold up. And that's what I'm saying. Like that might be a problem even for me. So, you know, I think it's like a higher tolerance than some of this stuff for some people because I just want to, I want to see things through but you know, I just don't believe you should play uncharted too without playing uncharted. I don't think you should you know, uh,

but you can play like the Killzone games because they're not really story heavy or like, you know, would you really play Halo 5 with no experience with Halo? I mean, dialing it back, you think uncharted you can't play? Like the only, the only threat is what's on, what's happening with Drake and Elena right now.

The rest, they're all like Indiana Jones. Pope things jump out. I totally disagree. I don't think you, I don't think you appreciate, especially two to three, but I think one to two. I think Killzone has more story in terms of like

two to three. I need to know they just fuck what was his name, the guy they assassinated him the steps or whatever and then they put their head in their hands. and then we pick up right after that, and that's why Helgans even more fucked than usual. Yeah, but I don't... At no point in two, are they like...

In three are they like, well, what about the blue sap? Like, you want to know what to happen? No, I understand that, but I mean, I wouldn't compare uncharted story to kills them story at all. I totally don't agree with you on that. But in terms of, like, it's gravity and so like that.

I think that, like, if you don't know who Sully is or Nate it, you know, if you just jump, especially if you jump in an uncharted three, you don't know why it's a big deal that Elaine is there. You don't know why it's a big deal that Chloe's back and all those kinds of things. and, you know, I don't know. I just feel like there's just certain things that you have to kind of respect the story

in the through line and you should see it all, you know? But if you don't want to, that's fine. That's what I'm saying is like, it's not really a judgment call. It's like, do what you want. I'm just saying that like I'm trying to kind of formulate more this set of rules my own head in terms of like how you should approach story-driven things and kind of pay respect to it and have the fullest understanding that you possibly can because I do think that that would add to your enjoyment of the game.

And so I think that, like, Fallout's another great example. Like Fallout 3, it was my, my first fallout game and I never played one and two and I think you can enjoy fallout through without having context of the other games especially because they're so different and the same thing with New Vegas and the same thing probably with four or the elder scrolls games even though they're interconnected they're really not so I guess it's just it's just a case by case kind of basis thing but I just I don't like my own internal feeling of inauthenticity when I'm like yeah I want to play metal gear solid five and I like oh what did you think of four

what did you think of three I'm like I hate it for and I don't you know it's like so like why are you excited about it. You know, like, that's like my own internal kind of struggle with it. So I do intend on playing do three and four, maybe Peace Walker before I get to this game, just so I can feel complete about the whole experience. See, I'm with you on that. Like, I like playing through everything. Like, I'm a completionist in that way.

When I get into something, I want to do all of them. Like, I got on Metal Gear really late in the game. Like, I didn't play until, I didn't start playing Metal Gear cell until leading up to four. And I've played through all of them, but I was like, I need to play through all of them to to get there, and I'm happy I did. But I just think it's different with this one. So, I don't know.

And what about something like Final Fantasy? There's no connection at all. No, I mean, that's what I'm saying. Or Dragon Quest, like, these games that really have, like, very ancillary connections to each other at best. No, I don't think that at all. That's why I'm saying. It is a case-by-case basis.

If some-I'm trying to think of, like, a good example of, like, a really- What about Resident Evil 4? I feel like, you could play, you could play all the Resident Evil games individually, but I do think that, like, you could not understand the full-through line between all of them which exists without having played all of them. But I do think four was the entry point for a lot of people. So again, like, yeah, we could sit here all day.

And I'm trying to think of like, like, Grand Theft Auto is an example where it's like, it doesn't matter which ones you play or whatever. But I do think that I just find it interesting when a story-driven game with a lot of war comes out. And either I'm drawn to it without having any experience or I watch with Metal Gear, a lot of other people being drawn to it. And I'm like, that's very interesting to me. But I got to be honest, like, the more I hear about Metal Gear,

the more, I don't want to play it. And like, I, I, like, that's, that's, I think, so I think it's just, I'm coming from a perspective of a Metal Gear fan that, an old Metal Gear fan that would sacrifice gameplay for story. If that, like, I had a choice. And I think that they did have a choice and I think they did sacrifice the other way. And, uh, that to me is like, just sounds a little bit disappointing. I want, I like, I don't necessarily, I wasn't judging Metal Gear Solid Four as exorbitant

cutscenes because they existed. I was complaining about them, the ones I saw that were fucking boring. You know what I mean? If you have something to say, then fucking say it. You know, like, and take the time to say it. That's fine. So I'm almost disappointed at because I think you're right that Kojima, like, really took Metal Gear Solid Force criticisms to heart.

And five seems to be a total, the exact polar opposite of that. See, I think that that's just in some ways, though. It's not like a real, it's not fair to say that as the end all be all, because it's just like in certain ways it is different, but it's not like they took it out. It's not like it doesn't exist. And I feel like they talked a lot. lot about five being more of a TV show season as opposed to a movie and I definitely get that. This feels like an HBO show.

This feels like it's being drawn out like longer, but it's still quality. It's still there. So I mean, I haven't beat it yet, so I can't say that like that it's a really great season of TV. But so far it's been an awesome half season, you know? And like four is a great movie. Yeah, we'll see. I mean, we'll see. We already have seen how it's all panned out.

People love the game and I'm happy about that. I'm so I'm not happy. You know, it's funny because everyone hates Konami, but they'll still shove money in their pockets. That's a whole, that's a whole other topic of like how we have no, and I've taught, brought up before how we have like no testicular fortitude in this industry in terms of like companies do shitty things and people bitch about EA, but they'll be at the next mass fact.

Mass fact, another great example of a game that you have no business playing unless you play them in order. Well, one of the next Metal Gear, though, be the one. When they actually, I mean, like, you want to support Kajima, right? And you want to buy it and say this is a Hideo Kajima game, right? Like, how do you punish Konami? I don't know if you punish them on this one. as much as you'd, the next one that comes out in is Metal Gear 6 or whatever, Metal Gear Raiden

and it's not in any way connected to Kikigima, that would be the one right? Yeah, no, fuck off, we don't do that. No, I agree. I'm not, I'm not necessarily blaming anyone for that either because I understand what people is draw to the game is, but I do think about that a lot where I'm like, you know, everyone just bitched about Mass Effect 3 forever talked shit about bioware and EA, and then everyone's excited about Andromeda. And I'm like, okay, like, Remember how mad you were?

Weren't you just really so angry that you didn't want to ever buy EA? you know, that's why I always say, like, these companies don't really care because they know that people don't really stick by what they say in this industry. They do in other industries. They do, you know? Like, if you buy a shitty Nabisco Cracker or something or Oreo or whatever, like, you're not going to buy more Oreos. Like, you know, like, so it's, it is interesting to watch that happen,

but I brought up MassFect just as an ancillary example. That's a great example of something you have no business playing unless you play them in order. You know what I mean? Like, that's like absolutely the way I feel. So I guess that would be one polar opposite example. wouldn't you agree with that? Like, you can't jump into Mass Effect.

I skipped one and jumped into two. You never played one? I played three hours of it and I was like, this is boring as shit and stop playing it. So you have no context of like, you know there was. There was, I watched the recap videos.

I had the context. I mean, I know who Shepard is. I knew what I was getting into. Like, I knew who the villain was from the first one. That's weird to me. I don't,

yeah, like that's actually like the arc example of a game where it's like, this is all interconnected. Two is great. I think three is even better. In my opinion. So I think there's, that's what I'm saying is like we had a whiteboard or like we have magnets and be like this is these

you know like you can play tales or final fantasy it doesn't really matter like they're not connected to each other final you know you can like these games are connected to each other but you can probably get around the story and then these games kind of really are intimately connected with each other and you probably should play them in order I think it's just a case-by-case basis um but it seemed like an interesting topic to talk about I'm actually interested to see like what people want to leave comments or whatever about how they would stack series in specific orders like that like how do you feel about people like having owner ownership over something in terms of war and then jumping into it, you know, as opposed to jumping into it cold.

if people think that there are examples of that because I don't really have an answer. I guess that's the whole point of the topic is I don't really know because I think Witcher is a great example of me bucking my own internal trend because I wanted to play a game and I think I got something out of it

but to Greg's point Christine got more out of it because she understood the little more and so should I have just played the other two first? What I have liked Witcher 3 more? You know? Yeah. That's the interesting thing

like for as much as people like Metal Gear would they have liked it more. I mean I think a perfect example is the Fast and Furious series no jokes where people that watch six or seven love them and they're like oh this is great like the other one sucked but this is great but it's like if you watched all of them you enjoy

six and seven so much more because you know all the stupid characters you know all the the ways that things connect and all that so I think they would enjoy it more it would be a better game but sure it's still really good so it's like right it's the thing of how much better compared to how much time you need to invest into something that's antiquated

and not good yeah that's that is an interesting question like yeah for instance if I went back and played three if I would enjoy Metal Gear Solid 5 right now and I probably would okay, that exists in a vacuum in a bubble. If I had some sort of way to quantify how much more I'd enjoy it, if I'd enjoy it 10% more if I played 3 and 15% more if I played 4

and 20% more if I played piecewalk, that's worth it. So I guess that that's actually an interesting way to put it. Like, would you have enjoyed, you enjoyed Mass Effect 2 a lot? It's great game, right? It's a fantastic game. Maybe you would have enjoyed 10% more if you had context, more context, right? Of Masspect 1. And so was it worth it for you to skip it to not get that extra 10%? I don't know.

That's a case-by-case basis. What do you say about Metal Gear? What about it? The percentage thing. Just got. I don't think you need. I think you could jump in and have a great time. I think you know enough.

But I also think that part of this is just in your head. I think you know that you don't have the time or a desire to play it right now. So you're making all these hurdles. We're like, well, I'm going to go back and play three and four. You're not. And so then any time, do you play Metal Gear Solid 5? No, I haven't had time to go back and this isn't an insult, by the way. I haven't had time to go back and play three and four.

It's like persona almost, right? well I'm going to do it when the Vita's dead because you know what a time sink it's going to be and the Vita never died and then you finally were like all right I'll play it like well it's not what I want to play right now so now you're out of it and you're playing hell that person is another great example too of those games are somewhat interconnected and like in terms of like some of a few of the characters and yeah and like the whole idea and the whole sure it's not in other words it's it's a little more enhanced than tails and the tails has like arts and gels and all these kinds of things that you use

but they're not really connected whatever but it's like I almost felt a little shitty going into persona four. Like playing it. I'm like, am I kind of like... Yeah, that's ridiculous. But I was almost like, am I kind of like a poser? Like, people have been talking about this series forever. I mean, you would be a poser if you're wearing a teddy shirt and making berry jokes already without having played it.

Right. That's the barrier and entry there. As somebody who loved persona three, I do not, I did not get it. Other than, oh, it's Igor. That's all I got out of it. You want to be playing persona four. I guess, I guess that was like a connection. And I guess a lot of it's not really out of a personal judgment or an internal judgment of myself, but more of... I want to just respect...

I have so much respect for people that do take the time and do know what they know and do do things what I would consult the proper way, however you want to put it, where they do, they have played the persona games, they have played the Metal Gear games, they really know it and stuff. And then I just jump in and I'm like, hey, fuck you motherfuckers. You know, like, and I don't want to be that guy either, you know, so I try to like kind of rein it in a little bit where, because I like, I like respecting people that take the time, you know, whether or not that's a good use of your time. Again, this is all very hypothetical, you know, but I want. video games. But I wanted to...

But video game, you know, I know it's funny, but video games are serious. Like, they're serious as we take them. Serious business. Well, there are serious as we take them. Like I said, you wouldn't jump in a Jedi without playing Empire. Or without, you wouldn't see Jedi without seeing Empire first. But then, I mean, I know that the quality isn't here, but you look at episode one. Metal Gear 5 very much is like episode one. Oh, good.

Well, in the fuck does that mean? Hold on. You better fucking start talking fast. Quality side. In the sense that, like, yeah, there's characters and there's a bunch of things that relate. Like, oh, yeah, R2D2's there. And oh, yeah, C3POs there. Gotcha.

No one gives a shit. Like, you don't need to know that those things are eventually going to be things that do stuff. This is a game that, especially with Metal Gear, the fact that it's, now it's in the 80s. And it's like, all right, we know what happens in the 2000s. We know what happens here. This is such just a game that just happens, you know? And like, obviously, I'm not saying that episode one, Metal Gear 5 are at all.

Wado is similar. Wado is there, yeah. Big boss. But what I'm saying is it's like, you can watch episode. And I don't think that you'd get much more out of it having watched the other ones. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a fair analogy. To be fair, one is before all of the other ones. So, I mean, it's, it's, you would then go to two, three, four, five, and six.

It's just that that was the order of which they were made. I understand what you're saying. In other words, like, you don't, one is the beginning of the story. Yeah. So, like, of course, like, you can jump into it. No, out of any context. So I don't necessarily agree with your analogy, you know? Well, I mean, I understand what you're saying in the main, but I don't know if that's the best

analogy to use because one was made after four, five, and six, but it is still the beginning. You would still be able to go to two, three, four, five, and six from one. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's the thing is there is stuff that happened before this one, but it's just like one of the Star Wars spin-off films almost. It's like, I don't, I understand

what you're saying, and I think you're right. And that's why I was saying, I wanted to just talk it out because I don't really know the answer. You know, but I do like, I really do appreciate and respect why some people, like, I'm sure that I don't, I don't think it's you guys. I'm sure, I wouldn't really be upset about this either, but I'm sure that there are Metal Gear fans that are quite upset that...

Oh, well, yeah, but those are the trolls. But no, but I don't necessarily think that that's trolling. I think that's saying, like, I put the time in and, like, these games are made for, you know, like, a person's opinion could very well validly be like, this was a game that was made for... We've been waiting for this. Well, you're describing as bandwagoners. Right. But you're not going to put on a Metal Gear shirt and a hat and be like, man, I've always

love Big Ball. You know what I mean? Like, that's not what you're doing. Well, that's the point is that I just try to respect that, too, to show. because there are IP that I feel very passionately about too with that. Like persona 5 for instance, which again is going to be a standalone story. You know, I'm excited. I'm interested about it, but I'm very interested about it, but I don't, I'm not

like fucking beating the drum because I'm like, what the fuck do I really know about persona? I don't really know anything about it. You know, so it's like, I'm excited to see it. I'm excited, other people are excited about it, even though those standalone title. So we're just kind of spinning our wheels. Yeah, I mean, the last thing I want to say about this is I think it's interesting that I think a lot of this conversation is just because

there's a five at the end of the title. If it was just Metal Gear Solid Phantom Pain Then would you feel differently about it? Not unless my mind was erased About all the other games that came before it You know Well what I'm saying is like with Peacewalker doesn't count Just because there's not a

Well no Peace Walker I don't like I don't want to play Peace Walker because I know that it's It's again not the metal gear that I want You know? Like it's very Numbers driven and not like it's got like a nonlinear kind of thing going on In terms of like going to missions and building things up as opposed to like just a beginning

and an end, you know? And like that's kind, and I'm sure this is a plot, but in the campaign, but that's what I loved about Metal Gear was like, this is what's happening on Shadow Moses. That's done. This is what's happening on Big Shell.

That's done. You know, now you're riding. That's done. Like all these kinds of things as opposed to being like, all right, now get an S rank. It's like,

what the fuck are you talking about? You know? Like, like, and that's just me being an old Metal Gear fan and not a new Metal Gear fan. You know, that's the thing. So it's like,

I don't want to get an S rank. I don't even want to be ranked at all. That's the whole point. That's there for you to replay. It's not even the goal. I was telling Nick that the other day. I'm like, don't even worry about that. I'll be ranked in my way through fucking Metal Gear.

Who else cares. It doesn't mean if you want to go back in platinum, that's when you go back and worry about it. What's funny is like the fact that Peace Walker is the game you should play to be set up for this game. But it's the one you're going to skip. So I don't understand. And also just you don't want to play Metal Gear. That's fine.

That's a fine answer. But I mean, I don't know. I don't think it's that easy. That's what I'm trying to talk it out. I know, but that's what I'm saying. I think after talking it out for this long, I think the answer is you just don't want to play Metal Gear. It doesn't interest you.

It is Peace Walker. You just don't want to play Peace Walker, so you don't want to play five, and that's fine. It's disappointing. Yeah, it's just, what I've heard about the game has been disappointing to me. Not that the gameplay is, I mean, I think it's awesome that they've married gameplay

finally to the game. But, well, I guess they did that way, really, Peace Walker. So I'd argue they did it before. But, yeah, I guess it's more about, like, what I'm looking for and what I'm getting or what I'm set, what I'm hearing are just two different things.

and so yeah maybe it's not for me but I'd like it to be for me because Metal Gear Solid was one of my favorite games of that generation. Metal Gear Solid 2 is maybe my favorite PS2 game so I'm sure So there's a disson When we get to the end of the year

and if you haven't played it then you'll have to play it because we'll have to sound off when we go like this is what we need game of the year These are our picks for a kind of funny game of the year Like we'll all have to play a little bit of each piece or at least have presentations of why we think it's cool presentations. I'm already prepping my PowerPoint

for the pad upon HD release I'm sure it's coming That's coming All right, moving on. That's a good discussion. I like that. This topic is brought to you by Patreon. As always. Thank you to all of our Patreon users.

Hey! That are amazing. Thank you. Kevin, make sure that their names flow freely like the rivers. Remember when Nick Sarpino asked you if you needed lower thirds? And you're like, no, we have everything. Yeah.

This is probably one of them you needed, right? I assume this was made. But, you know, we'll have them make it later. It'll be fine. He's got nothing to do at home. He's probably playing Metal Gear. He texting? Hey, Google.

Cool. Text Nick. Min Chung from Patreon says, what are your thoughts on the big three's ability to listen to its customers?

We saw Sony listen to its customers during the PS4's launch by focusing on what gamers wanted and asked for. Flash forward to now, it seems like Sony's rarely listening to the feedback

of its customers, i.e. UI updates, friend notifications, folders, and let us change our damn name Shuhay. Well, Microsoft

is doing everything you can do to win them back. And Nintendo, oh Nintendo. Why are you calling me, Kevin? Get the fuck out of this room.

Sony doesn't really need to do anything right now. since they are winning. But Sony made one mistake with PS3. Do you think they'll make the same mistake again? And can they afford to make that mistake again? And can they afford to make that mistake again? In short, I know why these three companies operate the way they do at the moment,

but I just want to hear your guys' thoughts on it. Thank you, Min Trump. I think, and this is in him. I've seen this on the internet before. I think the jump from PS3 to PS4 spoiled PlayStation fans a little bit. Sony is not ignoring you right now. Like, yeah, Colin and I are always like, or Colin mainly, honestly.

Let us change your names. I throw my support behind it, right? But, like, that's not them ignoring it. We know they're trying to work it. Every time we talk to them, they have some excuse of what's going on. But Shuhay's been up front. Like, we'd like to change it, but it's complicated. Folders, UI updates, they just talked about 3.0 firmware,

or firmware 3.0, that has a whole bunch of different updates and communities and all these different things people wanted out of it, right? And I know, as the guy who blogs the Patreon comments, I know this is a bit older. I think PlayStation's still listening. I'd argue to say they're the best at it right now in terms of responsiveness at least shoehate's still out there on the front lines

answering tweets sarcastically if need be or whatever but doing stuff Adam Boy's being a face and being able to answer stuff and being available for interviews and do these different things right I do think I always go back to it that that February conference for the announcement and reveal of what PlayStation 4 was

which we didn't know was going to be called PlayStation 4 at the time is still the most mind-blowing moment for me in my eight years of covering PlayStation and the fact of like I remember doing the interview with USA Today two days before and they were like, what's gonna happen? I'm like, well, this is what I would do.

And I said, but they never do what I would do. And then they went out there and they did exactly what I would do. Hey, everybody, we're PlayStation, we're listening, sorry. We're not gonna be what we were at PS3 with the $599 US dollars kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like we're here, we're apologetic. We're on, we're off the cell.

It's just a fancy computer. Here are all these indies. We're all about games. And I see that strategy and that messaging is still paying off to this day, right? PlayStation 4 is still a runaway success, it's still moves units. And it's like we were talking about moving without tons of exclusives,

nothing really this fall, right, with the exception of like uncharted and tear away, blah, blah, blah, blah. But not like your AAA. This is what you're buying us for kind of thing. And I think that's the, that's a virtue of speaking to the fans and still listening to the fans and doing that, right? Like, it's this weird thing of like,

you can't expect, you know, a company that big to hear what you have to say and immediately respond, turn on a dime, right? I mean, I think it's interesting that there's this blue Vita. What does that mean? On this platform, we all assumed was dead. You know what I mean? Or at least in its eight-year tailspinner, whatever the hell is going to be the final story for Vita, right?

But they're still out there. They're still listening. They're still active. They still have the blog and they answer comments. And you meet people there and they know what people want. They're trying to get it there, but it's just not easy to turn that ship, if that makes sense. Now, the flip of that, of course, and I'll let Colin speak at some point in this conversation, is the fact that Xbox has been also.

awesome at it. You know what I mean? You want to talk about a 180 of like, all right, we said all the wrong things. We're going to go back, which was weird and we didn't like, but then they go and they get filling. No, what, I just, what's her name? Xbox P3. What's his? Phil Spencer. Okay, good. I said that. I'm like, that's not right. Sorry. No, they go and they get Phil in there and he comes out and they, we're about games and we're about Indies. And you've seen their conferences get better and better with him at the helm and like, hear all these games, hear all these things. And then like, when we start talking about, are they better at listening? are they listening the same way?

This is one of those admitted things where I am a PlayStation guy so I'm dialed into that community I know what's happening that community more I talk to those people more from the outside looking in at Xbox and maybe not even being outside

we're doing so much more many more Xbox events I was just up there for the pre-packed showcase right and hanging out and talking to all those indie devs they're listening too both of these companies

have smart people at the helm who are like we understand what we're doing now let's get out there let's do this Major Nelson's always been he was the you know very up front I'm the face of this company before that was a thing,

before you talked about community managers being front-facing people and stuff. And so the fact that he gets out there and does what he does, and Jeff Rubenstein's over there now doing all that stuff too, and then we have Nate, you know, out there out there out there out there out there helping make games and get games out there. They are listening.

They are part of it. Both companies right now are extremely receptive to criticism, to praise, to this, that, and the other requests. But it's just not as easy as being like, we want more friend slots. I'm like, all right, fucking throw the switch, done. I think that's the biggest thing. We talked about this before a couple weeks.

ago and we're talking about what features we want to see in the systems, it's not that easy. And it's like all these things that seem simple. Like, oh, why can we just change your usernames? It's like, that requires an entire infrastructure being changed. Right. And, like, being able to work with that and security flaws and all that stuff need to be figured out or else your shit gets hacked. And then you get upset when PSN's down forever and all that stuff.

But it's like, you know, every little thing, there's a butterfly effect. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, like, fix it from the beginning. So I do, they're definitely listening. And I also think that Nintendo gets way too much bullshit for, the way that you phrase this making it sound like they don't listen. I think they totally do.

I think they're in a bad position right now. They're trying to transfer over to the NX and stuff and they did a lot of stuff. But it's like seeing things like the Nintendo World Championships and seeing all of the stuff they're doing on YouTube. Like I was just showing Call on Today, they're doing some new Nintendo YouTube series of Miyamoto talking about Mario myths.

Oh nice. And it's just Miyamoto like Tom on Mario stuff. And like a couple days ago there was another video of him like breaking down the first level in Mario and stuff. And it's like that's what people want. And it's like, I like, Nintendo is, and the directs, like, when they first came out, everyone gave them so much shit as being the worst things ever. Yeah.

Then all of a sudden it was like, the people that actually cared about the products, the people that don't care about the products, they're going to hate no matter what. Right, right. They're going to always, yeah, exactly. But the people that enjoy it, that Smash Bros. Direct they did, one of my favorite things to ever come from video games. Here's a game that I love, and they're like, here's a shit ton of stuff that's going to excite you. Perfect. Yeah. Everyone else that didn't really care, talking shit about it, but it's like, they don't matter.

And it's one of those things too of like, especially with Nintendo where, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, I don't want to get off, screw this up because it's important. When they talked about the new quote unquote Metroid game, the multiplayer one that isn't a real Metroid game. Didn't Reggie say we know this isn't the Metroid you want or expect or something like that? Well, later he said that in like interviews and stuff. It's signifying again, yeah, this isn't the game. I know what Metroid game you want. We hear you. It's just right now we're doing this, but we hear you and we are listening and this is a thing, right?

And I think that's the biggest thing. It's like, we've talked about it before. They're in that holding pattern where they're not doing that because they're working on that X and the Wii is not the place and all this stuff. And it's like that's an issue, you know, it's like they're obviously not listening, but they're a corporation. And like the same thing going to PlayStation with the names. Imagine with Nintendo, they released a system that just simply isn't working. That's not just a, oh, we'll change some usernames. Their whole system is the problem.

Yeah. So it's like, that's an even bigger. All right, guys, we've got to go behind the scenes. We've got to figure this out. and then we're going to come out. I'm hoping, you know, but you have to think that they're listening. And this goes back to the other argument

we talk about all the time of all the people in the fucking government. They're like talking shit about video games causing violence and all stuff. When they die, things are going to be over. We look at all these things like the Ninja Shirtles cartoon and Transformers cartoons and all the stuff

where they're now being made by fans of the originals. So they're better than the originals because they are the people that are most passionate about these things happening. I feel like Nintendo, you see that right now through their,

their social media and their YouTube and all that stuff. Yeah, their social media gets it. Where they're like, these are fans of Nintendo. These are the people that... Well, shit, yeah, they hire fucking Audrey Drake. You want to talk about a bigger Nintendo thing. It's like when you watch the directs, they're made for the fans. You know, buy fans doing all that stuff.

Some of them aren't hits. Some conferences aren't hits for everybody. That's just how it works. Like Nintendo's E3 direct? Yeah, it wasn't good. But that's also what they had to show. They had the Metroid blasting. That's what they were doing.

And that's the big thing when we talk about with companies, you know, I mean, and you talk about especially like with stockholders and, you know, boards are right. Like you can't say everything you want to say. There's a re, and like, even with us, like on a micro level, obviously, right? Not to compare us to any of these companies we're talking about. We hear your criticisms of this show, shows you want, da, da, da, and there are wheels in motion and things are happening behind the scenes that we're just not ready to tell you about because we have a rollout plan.

You know what I mean? It's not like it was where I think Sony at the launch of PlayStation 3 was so tone deaf in the way of like, you'll get a second job. This is going to be fine. You want, do you need this system? We don't need a functioning fucking PlayStation store. You know what I mean? Like all that dumb stuff where they learned a hard lesson.

So the second part of the question is, can people afford to ignore the fans again? Hell no, you can. I think this economy and like the way video games have shaken out, THQ, have shown that. You need to be receptive to what people are. And I don't think it's just video games. I think that just the world that we live in now is so connected.

And you have a complaint about an airline? Guess what? Yeah. That airline's going to hear about it. And if they don't respond, they look bad. Yep. You know? And that's with everything.

you can tweet directly at people and say, fuck you. You shouldn't do that, but you can. So it's like if people aren't responding and people aren't, like that's what news is these days is tweets. Oh, Nintendo replied about this. Oh, you know, Xbox said that. Sega said this. There are all 140 characters that are just people talking about on forums, threads on threads on threads of just, you know, 140 characters that somebody said.

And every single tweet is those companies listening. Yeah. So if you're not listening, that's an issue. Yeah. Go for it, Colin. I don't know. I mean, I agree with a lot of what you guys said. I disagree with something Greg said at the top,

which is that Sony's doing it, but listening more than Microsoft. I actually disagree. I think Microsoft is clearly listening the most because they have to. The market was not responding to Xbox One well, and their entire plan with Xbox One, even before it came out, was changed based on feedback. And I think they've been really exceptional about showing support for the Xbox One, even though the Xbox One,

is languishing behind PS4, it's still selling very well in its own right. And also they updated every month and they, you know, I think that their communication is really bad. I think the Major Nelson blog, I think Xbox Wire, I think all these things are muddled and confusing and don't need to exist. I think they need to have like one place to go for the information. They're not regurgitating each other. The way they write about games is way too marketing. So I think that they have like a lot of problems that out from, but where it really, really matters, because that's for people that really already exist and are established in the in the ecosystem.

I think that they're front-facing stuff with Xbox One and turning it around and dropping the price and putting games in and all this kind of stuff, their first parties. Really powerful stuff. I think PS4, I mean, we're kind of used to it now. I think Greg's right that we came to expect a lot of bad things from PlayStation and got used to it. And I think PS4 has made a lot of people spoiled.

And I try to keep that in mind when I get upset about the things that are going on with PS4 because I'm like, this is just like, let's not forget about what it was like during PS3 and how much we struggle to get anything on that system in terms of features and stuff like that. So it's it's like night and day. So like I have, I don't want to say infinite patience for Sony because I don't. My patience for the name changing thing, for instance, is long since past.

I don't believe for a second that that problem can't be solved. I think it's fucking nonsense that they haven't solved yet. It's infuriating. It's infuriating to a lot of people. I think that they are being, I think people do feel like they're being ignored by Sony on that front. it is in every fucking story

on PlayStation blog that talks about features it is all over the place there are a fucking forum posts with thousands of people posting on that is the most upvoted thing on their own system about what people want

and they still haven't delivered it I think people have every right to be upset about that I don't care how hard it is to fix fix it you know I agree that needs to be fixed but they're responding to the common is what I'm saying

it can't be the excuse that it's on every forum why can't have somebody in there every time on every post saying check this thing interview with whoever from one of it right exactly but also they're in it

The reasons don't even seem to be syncing up with each other. It's just like, just fix the fucking problem. You know, like, just fix it. It's actually ridiculous now at this point. So I understand why people are, you know, upset with Sony about those kinds of things. And I'm sure that there are technical ramifications about doing something like a name change, but just figure it out. You know, and one of the things that really showed me, although I think part of it is marketing. One of the things that really showed me that you can take a system and do things unexpected things with this.

It was when Xbox one did backwards compatibility. It's like the Xbox one was not designed with that in mind and they did it. And they did it on a software level. You know, like it wasn't a hardware fix. They didn't release new Xbox ones. They figured it out. And it wasn't easy and it wasn't cheap.

And they did it. And so like I'm, that's the one thing I'm, I'm getting pissed off about with Sony Warner. It's like just enough with the excuses. These nice fixes with 3.0 are great. But like this is not really what people are asking for. So do people,

are people being heard and listen to? Yeah, I think they are. But are some things getting swept under the rug or like being kind of shrugging and something like that. It's like that's like that's not good business either. But I think there's a difference though, specifically between the backwards compatibility and this,

where the backwards compatibility, that's not something like the people were asking for that. They wanted that, you know, and like I think before the Xbox one came out, they would have asked for it. But then once they said it's not happening, it's not like people are like, oh man, please make things backwards compatible.

They're just like, it's not going to happen. So for them, that's way more of like a, that's a system seller thing. That's a marketing pitch. Oh, you can change your names on PSN. That's not something that they're just going to, to devote time to because you don't announce that at E3

and have people go crazy, right? I don't know about that at this point. But that's the thing though is it's like the hardcore would right, the people that are already invested would and that's important you should definitely cater to them but we wouldn't be talking about that

on you know games cast in a couple months. Well we would but that's because we're... But I mean this is I think it's the same thesis as your Nintendo argument that the directs are for the fans. And I'm totally with that. But what I'm saying is it's like, we talk about this, the Xbox thing. It's like they, you know, they did it.

They did a fucking huge thing. We wouldn't be talking about the name change being a huge thing at E3, you know? Xbox, I mean, PlayStation wouldn't win E3 the same way we talked about Xbox winning E3. Okay. Because, you know, I don't disagree with what you're saying there, but I do think Sony is leaving millions of dollars on the table literally. By not allowing, like, people are desperate. You know what I mean? And it's like one of those things where, where, like, I don't even care.

Like, it's like, whatever. my name is Moriardi, IGN, that's fine. But, like, people really, like, it's just everywhere. It's so funny. Like, you're just tuned in to the PlayStation audience. It's just, it's everywhere. And it's like, so I get why some people are like, all right, that's great. But, like, there's, like, bigger system problems that we really like you to figure out at some point.

But I think, I think a thing there, though, is, you know, the fact that it's not a one for one. It's not like, well, why did you do this when you could have done that? Well, I don't agree with you at all on that front. Like, I think that there are a finite amount of engineering resources and they devote them in ways that they feel are most applicable. So I don't agree with you there. I do think that things do come out of the ether that affect things not coming out of the ether.

I think that that's obvious. I mean, that's business. And I trust that this is just an example because it's an example where we're all known for talking about for years. I mean, that's the thing. We've talked about it for years. You should have seen, like, right before I left IGN when I wrote that, like, let us

change our names thing. That thing did like... Juggernaut traffic. Like insane traffic. Got picked up all over the place. You know, spawned near. Gap threads and all these kinds of things. And it's like, dude, like, but I agree with you.

Like, this isn't going to get new customers because new customers make their name. It's going to get, it's going to make your, your existing customer fan base happy. And I think that is what Sony's good at doing, actually, is that Sony fans feel the love. Like, they do feel the love. They're not getting all of it, but they, but Sony. But they get a lot. Yeah, they do get a lot of love. I think PlayStation blog specifically is a great example of how to talk to fans in stark

contrast to the way Xbox talks to fans, which is, you know, not nearly as good. in that respect. And then we get to... So I think Microsoft's really winning that race right now in terms of optics in terms of listening because they have to, but they're doing a great job. I think Microsoft's doing a fucking slam-up job right now

of everything, and they're going to have a great fall, I think, too. And then I think Sony's winning without really trying, which is interesting. Sony's like kind of doing it with one arm behind their back. Their studios are not ready. So it's really going to be extraordinary. If Sony's PlayStation 4 is meteorically selling,

it's not even just selling well, it's not even selling great. It is outselling. it is on pace with like PS2. I mean, that's kind of an insane thing when you think about it, right? And it's not going to end up where PS2 ended up because you have to remember PS2

of course was a DVD player. PS2 was the first unit, console unit that Sony made that really penetrated emerging markets in places like Brazil, and it had a huge tale they were making them until like two years ago. So it's like they were still selling.

So it's not going to get to that point. You can still buy a new one on Amazon. Oh, I'm sure you can. It's crazy. And so eventually the number is going to dip. But PS4 is going to end up very respectively. I will say about Nintendo that, and this is something we've

brought up on Colin and Greg Live just in a passing way, but I think what Nintendo needs is new blood. And it seems like they might be getting it in, you know, the way that they deal with social media and YouTube and all those kinds of things. I was, I floated this idea and it's a crazy idea to Greg where I'm like, is it time for Nintendo to say to me up someone like Miyamoto,

like, you can stay and we'll pay you, but like you're not making games anymore. Like we need the, we need to bring people now that played your games in. I think they make these games. You know what I mean? Because, like, I was looking, my example was I was looking at Star Fox, which I think looks like it's like 15 years old.

And I'm like, okay, this is, this is it? Like, at some point, I'm like, okay, this visionary, the greatest game designer ever. Miyamoto is a fucking legend, a legend. There will never be another like him that gave so much of the industry or whatever. But I wonder if with the NX and all of these kinds of things, Nintendo should just be like, we're bringing in a bunch of new people now. And we're going to see what they can do. because the Wii was a success with the mainstream, but, you know, somewhat subpar attach rate

and that system died two years before it actually died because people just stopped caring about it. And then the Wii obviously has not really been very successful. And 3DS is less successful than the DS where I'm wondering, I'm like, should Nintendo just be open to more new ideas? And I'm excited to see that. The Miyamoto thing is just an example. People would think that that's sacrilegious.

But it's just an example of saying, like, should Nintendo make a bold move and be like, we're... Sure. You know, Miyamoto, you are welcome here for but like we are going to start putting our resources into new teams and to new ideas and the new new developers 20 and 30 and 30 something year old kids that grew up inspired by your games and now they can help save this you know this like what we're what's happening here and I kind of see

signs of that because I do agree like the Nintendo directs a great example of um when I still think Nintendo directs a little weird I think it's impersonal I think that it's it's a cop out in many ways when you do things like that at E3 I like that it's that there's that there's way to talk to people outside of the cycle where it's like we're doing it direct in February and it's about this and I think that's great and I enjoy that they do that but when they do that shit at E3 I'm like that's a fucking cop out you know so I think there's like it's like it's like six of one a half dozen any other there where I'm like you should be at the fucking show this year they'll be there's they'll there probably put the NX out uh or reveal it for the first time at E3 you have to

assume so like I think it's a mixed bag but I see a Nintendo that's trending back in the right direction not necessarily in a direction out it's going to make me a fan of theirs again because the mobile initiative with DNA and all those kinds of the things, but they're becoming a company that's, that's becoming smarter. You can tell that a lot before he passed away, unfortunately, was starting to set the ship right again. And, like, kind of, you know, it's like an aircraft carrier when you have to turn it. And it takes like a day, you know, it's like he's spinning the wheel.

And then, you know, he's, he's been spinning the wheel and, and then he unfortunately passed away. But it seems like that the direction has been charted. Yeah, they're still going that way. And so with Nintendo, like, what I would love to see them do is just, I would love to see them trust their Western affiliates more. I think Nintendo of America should be running that show, you know? like this is the biggest market in the world

this is a huge market for Nintendo a massive market for Nintendo and they should have a little more trust than maybe some of their Western partners to be like we you know let us figure some of these things out and so I think Nintendo is on the right path and I do think that these social media moves and all these kinds of things are making them a little more personal

which is something that Nintendo had lacked for a long time and that was always so confusing because their games are the most personal you know and so there was like this this fucking crazy dissonance between the nature of their games and the nature of them as a corporate entity and they need to to be able to merge those two things together. There's no reason why they can't have, I mean,

people like Reggie and all these kinds of things, but Reggie, I wouldn't consider in terms of hardcore gamers, like core gamers that like someone like Shuhay or Phil Spencer is way more important to their companies than someone like Reggie is, and there's no important, like, why Reggie shouldn't be the guy or maybe not right, because everyone seems to hate Reggie now after the whole E3 thing, but like someone, although I'm sure that will pass. What was the E3 thing?

Well, just like where he was like walking around giving interviews and telling people, you know, like, About the VR isn't anything. You know what I'm saying? Where it's like they need to elevate their people the way Sony was wise enough to elevate their people. See, it's so funny you say that. Because to me, like, I feel like Nintendo's people

are so much more recognizable. They're recognizable, but they're behind glass, dude. They're in a museum. I can't talk and interact with them. Everyone can interact with Shoe and Adam and these different people. That's what I'm saying. It's like you can't...

Phil Spencer answers people's tweets like all day. Phil Spencer runs Xbox. You're not going to like talk to, you know, Miyamoto isn't going to answer your texts or your tweets He's on Twitter You better answer my text to my emoto I mean so that's what I'm saying is like

Why isn't Reggie on like like the like the like you're saying Those guys make news and stuff From a social perspective that makes sense Like Shue Hay is a guy you feel like you can go up and talk to because you can't Mm-hmm you know I've been in this industry for a long time and if I saw I and I've met Mimoto But I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking up to him and be like hey hey dude You know like like but Shueh hey is like one of you know or Phil Spencer

Like these guys are guys that are just kind of doing their thing and stuff And I think there's an organic nature to it I think in the social media era is very, very important. And I think that that's what I'm saying. It's so ironic because Nintendo has these guys that are so obvious. Just let them off their fucking leash.

They're not going to do anything wrong. You know, there's too much control. I think if Nintendo got into a more personal space, I think that, because I think the NX is going to help them very much. And I'm super interested also to see their first mobile game, which is coming out this year. But I think that they're moving into a new space,

and it's going to be a space where that's going to make them competitive with Microsoft and Sony again. And they need to be able to have, have the proper tools to be able to go at at them. So I think you're right. I think they're going to have a big E3. And it's going to be an exciting E3.

And I can't wait to see what the NX is all about. I hope they can win me back. So yeah, I think all three companies are doing great, in my opinion, you know, and doing something's wrong. But most of the things are right. I think everyone's kind of trending up. They're trending towards listening to consumers. Sure.

And I think that's very important. And it's going to be good for their products. I think Nintendo, I think Nintendo has nowhere to go, but up at this point, especially. True. Good. That topic brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is how we made, kind of funny.com, and I'm in love with how it looks and how simple it was to make. Sites are professionally designed regardless of skill level, no coding required, intuitive and easy to use tools,

with state-of-the-art technology powering your site to ensure security and stability. Trusted by millions of people and some of the most respected brands of the world, including Kind of Funny. Start to $8 a month and you get a free domain if you sign up for a year. Start your free trial site today with no credit card required at Squarespace.com. When you decide to sign up for Squarespace, make sure to use the offer code Kind of Funny to get 10% off. your first purchase, Squarespace. Build it beautiful. Build it beautiful.

It's your favorite thing. It's awesome. This topic brought to you by the Kind of Funny forums. Go to Kindoffoney.com slash gamescast topic. Submit your topic for the show and it'll get read

just like Metro Shade did. Metro Shade. Nope. We'll start with Dwarven Darkness. Dwarven Darkness. I recently bought the original Kingdom Hearts, having rented it as a kid and enjoyed the limited playtime I had.

As much as I love the idea and setting, the controls completely ruin it for me. Why is hack and slash combat menu-based? Why not map those actions to the triggers and have the right stick control the camera? All ranting aside, what games have you tried your hardest to love, but they just won't let you? Well, that's a design.

Those are designed decisions of the time. Yeah, and that's just like a young man. Yeah, it sounds like Nick Scarpino on the plane. How do I do this? Why can't I do this? Well, we didn't know how to do that yet, Nick. Yeah. When this game came out in 1998, nobody knew the fuck what you're talking about.

The tank controls were just in that. That's how you controlled games. Yeah. I mean, I've talked about it a lot, and I actually did a panel with GameSpot at Pax, just a couple weeks ago, called Your Favorite Game Sucks, which was about games that we, that are beloved that we just hate. So, Assassin's Creed is the example for me. I want, there's, like, no series in this world I want to love more than Assassin's Creed. I just fucking hate it. Like, I just, I just hate it.

I can't get over it. So that's, I won't belabor that because we've talked about it so much. And you can watch that video. It's more comedic than serious, but, you know, Brian Altano was on and talking about it. talking about Arkham Knight and Anthony Carboney was on and talking about Final Fantasy 7 and Chris Waters talked about Metal Gear Solid 4. So that is my example, Assassin's Creed. I've said it before, I think, on this, like, I wish I cared about Final Fantasy. I wish I could get into Final Fantasy's. I've tried so hard. It's just that like every time I get jumping and I try

to play one, the setting doesn't click for me, the characters don't click for me and then I just don't care and I'm not going to invest 100 hours into it. Which ones did you have you played? I've tried with 7. I tried with 10. I tried with 13. There's probably a few. I'd be interested to see what you thought of four or six. Just because those, especially six, I think the setting would more click with you. It's like magic meets like technology.

It's medieval but not really. Like steampunkish. Four is medieval, but the characters are awesome and four. Yeah. I'd be interested to see what you thought of those. And then of course, Movis. No. You want to get into Movis?

No, I've tried playing it. I want to understand why. Hey, they put DC, they put my favorite fucking universe into this genre. I don't know. It worked really well with MMOs in DC Universe Online. Maybe it'll work. Turn on this Moabwe.

Oh, this is fucking awful. How does anybody let you? Talk to Mitch. He's like, oh, I played 15 hours of Dota and hated everyone. And then I got it.

I'm like, no, no fucking way. No, thank you. I'd rather play 15 hours of something I love than do that. You know what I mean? Like,

yeah. I don't want to get into Mobbos, but I wish I did so I could understand and be like into that. Into that vein of the culture that people care so much about. So my answer is actually. the reason that I chose this topic, or this question, is Kingdom Hearts, which is funny, because I actually went through it, though. Oh, you powered through it.

I powered through it. Gotcha. So when Kingdom Hearts, I was right there with this guy. When it first came out, I loved the setting, loved the idea. Final Fantasy and Disney together. I was like totally sold. But I did not like the game when I first played it. And I remember I played through Kingdom Hearts One, put it like a bunch of hours into it.

I'm like, man, I just, I want to like this game, and I really don't. Right. And then I kind of gave it some space and I came back to it. I'm like, still don't like it. Then I was like, just keep doing it. I need to beat this game. Sure.

And by the time I beat it, I'm like, I do like this game. But then it was like, what he's saying is right. Like the controls never totally felt right. Right. And things were kind of weird. And then by the time two came out, I remember playing. I'm like, oh, no, I do like this. Two totally kind of update, made it control a little bit better,

felt more fluid. The camera felt right. The platforming wasn't like horrible. Yeah. Like it wasn't the first one. And I was like, oh. This is actually enjoyable. But I'm really interested to see Kingdom Hearts 3

and how it modernizes that the gameplay. And I think it will in a lot of ways. But Kingdom Hearts was that game for me that I was just like, fuck, I want to love this. This is made for me. And it's not clicking. But I powered through and it did click. There's a bunch of other games that I got a bunch of other games

that I would think that I would love. And I play them. I'm just like, eh. Yeah. Whatever. I feel like a lot of Nintendo games are actually that way for me. You know what? Ones, I remember, and these came out at the same time.

and this is the PS2 versions, well, obviously, for the one. But Hitman, whatever Hitman was on PS2 that I'm thinking of, I think it might just have been Hitman. I was like, this sounds great. And I played, I'm like, ugh, this isn't, this isn't what I wanted. And then Shadow the Colosses. Oh, wow.

Everyone was talking about how amazing Shadow the Closses was. It was like, fuck yeah. And I sat down. I'm like, all right. Oh, no, I'll power. I'm going to power. I'm going to power. Oh.

No. No. I couldn't. I actually couldn't. I played shout out of the classes for like a few hours. I'm like, nope. Really? And it was the same thing when it came to PS3.

I was like, well, clearly I missed something. Now I'm getting this re-release with trophies and E-K. Just that down, I was like, nope, I just don't. Can't do this. I will throw in real quick before we move over the next question that, I mean, I understand my people like it. Yeah, it's totally one of those games I respect and understand, and it's just not my thinking. It's not for me either. But I will say that a lot of people ask why I like side-scroller so much and just old games,

and I'm like, because these games feel great still. Yeah. Before things got too complicated, This is the way games controlled, and they still control the same way Rogue Legacy controls exactly the way Mega Man controls or Castlevania controls. The speeds in the in-game systems and all those kinds of things are different. But that's why I love those kinds of games. They are timeless. That is the way Mario 1 controls is perfect. And Mario 1 is a perfect game, really. You know, it's a fucking masterclass on how to make a game. And it will always be that way. And it will always age that way. And you cannot say the same about a lot of 3D games. You can't. It's just not going to happen. So that's a good example of why I really prefer, and not prefer, but I really love those kinds of games. It's just because there will always be good.

That's why the NES is my favorite console of all time, because before things got too heinous and complicated, that's the way we controlled games with a Dpad and two buttons, and they're all, you know, the NES has duds, but all of the games that were great in 1990 are still great. And you can't say that about the games that came out in 1998, 2008, 2000. The games that were great in 2000 are not great. Great point.

Yeah. All right. Second one. Now Metro Shade, it is your time. Metro Shade. What are your thoughts on fan bases of certain games? I recently finished the Dragon Age series and was really captivated by the tone. I poked around online and found huge dedicated fan-based communities to the games, but not just

the games, characters, romances, etc., especially around Tumblr. Have you ever been a part of a fan base like that? And if so, which ones, and to what extent? This actually brings me a point I meant to make in Collins where he was like, I don't think, and I'm an owl butcher, but I think the witcher community is huge, too. And I know what you're talking about Metal Gear, but I think that's the whole thing. is like, I think you have to move these rocks every so often. You find these people, like this community,

I don't mean these people in a bad way, this community of people that are so into something that you can't, you know, you can't even fathom, right? Like, the closest I got is DC Comics, you know what I mean? But even that, there's people who know way more about DC Comics than I do. And, like, a great example recently was Metal Gear. And, like, I'm always talking about Metal Gear.

I love Metal Gear. I'm so into Metal Gear, right? And then I played it, and I'm doing less plays based on my first play-through of this game. So I'm getting caught and all this stuff. and these fans are eating me alive and on Reddit they're just like ah and it's like oh yeah like i creep on this Reddit every so often but i've never posted but you have people on here who are like non-stop posting fan theories and this and images and fan aren't and it's like i consider myself

a hardcore metal gear fan but then there's these people who are are legendary they're such a different their s rank plus plus metal gear fans you know what i mean and so that's the weird thing and like what you're talking about with authenticity right of like at some point you have to figure out what that means and check it because there's always going to be a bigger fan than you. You know what I mean? Even Mega Man, right? Like, there's bigger Mega Man fans than Colin that have tattoos all over their body in our number one of the world and watch Colin do these fucking awesome let's plays of Mega Man are

like, like, this guy sucks in Mega Man. He doesn't know it. It's like, can we all just like something? Does it have to be like this? But it does, we do get out, getting these dick measuring contests all the time. That's a great point. I'm a bigger fan than you. Yeah, although I will say I don't, I think passion is shown in different ways.

Yep. I would say in that I don't know that there's necessarily anyone that loves Mega Man more than me. But I'm not saying that I love Mega Man more than anyone else. I'm saying that we're a group of people that just love, I don't think there's someone that's like, I fucking love Mega Man more than you. I don't know about that. I think we all just really love Mega Man. What if Mega Man walked in right now?

And he's like, I love me more than me. And he's like, what, Mega Man? He blows his own brains out. And then he just says, p. No, this goes back. I don't, I never was a member of any of these communities, really. I like, I like, I appreciate and respect them as we're talking about. I have a great respect for fandom in the sense that

people get really dedicated into these things. They weren't really fan fiction or whatever to do fan art. I'm not talented enough to fan art. I used to try to draw Mega Man. I just didn't work out very well. But I've never gotten so deep into something that I was writing serious fan fiction or like just I was on a forum that was dedicated just to Mega Man

and I would just pose by Mega Man. I don't know if I love anything that much. But it's more to the extent of like, that's just not how I choose to spend my time. So I don't really judge people for doing that. I think that's great if that's the way you want to spend your time. So there's, there's, I, but I will say to the point about Witcher and Metal Gear and all these kinds of things, and a group like that exists for almost anything.

And that's the coolest thing. It's like literally the biggest game, the smallest game. Like, for me, one that I was super into back in the day was the Amplitude community. I would like check those, like the form every day. It was just talking about a game, a music game. Where the fuck is Aplitude? Oh. God damn coming.

That's a good point. December. 311. Mm, okay. I used to post on their bulletin boards all the time. Yeah. To the point where I saw them at Berkeley in 2004

at Greek theater show sucked and because they have sound ordinances there you can just sit in the pit and like I saw it with David Clayman. Yeah. And we were just sitting in the pit like talking to each other. And I'm like this is insane. Like this isn't nearly loud enough. Was it all acoustic? No, it wasn't acoustic. It was just like I was like this is, I wanted to be so loud. I can't hear myself

fucking think. That's the way I like my rock shows. And I think it's the way rock fans like they're rock shows. But because it's in Berkeley and all this kind of stuff they have to like keep it low and I'm like, this is insane. Fucking Berger. but they also close with a specific song like, why are you closing with the song? I posted on the forums and like,

you know, they had like show reviews. I'm like, the show is fine, but I was like, the set list was kind of weak. Like, why do you close the freak out? Which is this song like they usually open with. And Nick Hexham, the singer wrote,

and he's like, hey Colin, I thought you being a big fan would know, would be delighted that we put a song like freak out at the end of the set list. I was like, oh. And my friend's like still bringing that up is like I got yelled at by light there.

The singer at 311 on their own forms. That's awesome. So that's probably the only place where I used to post it. What was this reasoning? Why I put Freak Out at the end? I don't know. You didn't say. It was just, it was weird. I just thought it was weird. Oh, did you call yourself a big fan in the post? I think you just assumed based on my post count.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I was there. I mean, so I guess I'd have loved things that much where I got into it. But I usually, I got to be honest. Like, my take on this is I usually, I often feel intimidated. It's by getting involved. Yeah. Totally. Kid me? Yeah, 1,000%. Maybe that would be if I wasn't so intimidated. Whenever you say any, do you love any? I mean, like, a great example. was DC Universe Online. Like, I fucking love this game. I've put in 600 hours. I'd make videos about it and talk about it. And people are like, 600 hours. You don't know anything. Fucking, look at your DPS gear and how you're fucking playing. I'm like, I just really like this. What are you talking about? Like, you know what I mean? Like, people take it as a challenge. And I, it's, again, that authenticity kind of angle of like, I, I say this all time. And I guess I still do to a way, right? Like, obviously I love Metal Gear Solid 5 and I love DC Universe Online. And I, in a way, wish, yeah, that, like, I could have

a life that I played one game, that I was the DC Universe Online expert, but like our jobs aren't that. We need to play a little bit of everything and dot-da-da-d-d-and-you-get-and-you-get-round. And so a lot of people give you leeway with that. I'm like, all right, well, he's out of practice because he's played a million other games leading up to this. But still, it's like, you're going to get slammed by someone because someone takes offense to the fact of me saying, I love DC Universe Online. Like, you don't have fucking talking about.

I'm the same too. Me and Smash Bros. Oh, right. I love Smash Bros. I'm so passionate. I don't think that there's many people that have poured as much thought into Smash Bros. I do. And I'm not talking about like pro level and all that stuff. I'm just like normal fans of video games. Like I really like that game. Not that good at it.

Never claimed to be. You know. It's one of those. No, I'm like, I'm very, very okay when you're talking about normal people, you know? And that's always the thing, right? Remember when you're back home with your friends and like your normal communities and you're like, man, Greg is the best NCAA football player. And I go to college and just get dismantled. Like just like toyed with. Oh my God. That's what happened. I mean, we talked about it before. But with street fighter. I think I'm actually a pretty good street fighter player, but like the first time I encountered people that were like really, really good at street fighter and would like just put me down.

And I was like, all right, I guess I'm not that good at this. I mean, I still think I can hold my own against most people that play the game casually. But when you get in, when you really meet people that are really into it, just different echelons. It doesn't mean you love a game more though. Yeah, oh, I know, I know. But it definitely is that like the competition with everything. Like you were talking about 311 for me, Q and 5 and like tone deaf, their website.

Like I'm a bigger tone deaf fan than you are. You are, definitely. but to this day I'm an active member of those communities and that's like the only forum that I'm like besides art that I like actually talk and I'm on but besides that like there is so many communities that I've been a part of without actually posting

and without we actually being a member but like game facts like completely like I was all over game fact shit I read this shit out of so many boards and like before a game would come out I would just every day check that yeah that was the place because you're finding like line of people who were talking about it's super stoked to us and who understand things in a way that

don't you know like I love like metal gear there's been so many times I've just gone down the rabbit hole about reading about what other people think about it because I'm like fuck I did not have that interpretation right right missed that completely yeah you didn't get a tape or a tape or whatever you know you get some choice cut scene that right that then sheds new light and everything and even go sell the random things like Sonic there's there's such a huge Sonic community that like is like it's a joke how big and passionate this group of people is that love Sonic the headshot but it's like I remember like back in the day I remember reading a lot of stuff and I'm like man there's these games are so much

deeper and there's so much going on than I would give them credit to. Even just like the background designs and like little things that oh there's differences between level one, two, and three because time's passing and if you, I'm like, holy shit, that's really cool. Like there's so much going on and I feel like you have to go deeper and you have to, it's research.

It's homework. You know, you've got to do the homework to be passionate about shit. All right. Huff with three Fs. What mechanics are systems from past games would you like to see used again in the future? As an example, I'd like to see a return from the interrogation mechanics from LA Noir and the nemesis system from shadows of

of mortar. Oh yeah, nemesis is going to be back for sure in a whole bunch of stuff I bet because that was such a brilliant idea of making an open world game your own. You know what I mean? Of like, oh, I have. Because for years, right, you'd have that in your head where you play games, especially like in like streets of rage or whatever side scroller beat him up where I remember inventing things of why I'd see the same guy again, that he was back, right? And the nemesis like spells it out for you. For me, I was talking about this a couple days ago. But the the rewind mechanic in Prince of Persia.

I thought that was fucking awesome. It allowed such cool gameplay. And just like the time, like messing with the time and stuff. Like, I feel like other games have used it, but I feel like that, I would love another Prince of Persia that does that

or just other games that have similar things where if you fuck up, you can just kind of like bring it back. You know, I loved Patapon. I'd love another Patapon, but I wouldn't mind just another game that is using music in that way, right? Of pounding out drum beats to make things happen.

You know, because it was so different and interesting in terms of like, you're this God. who communicates through music and not directly and you have to give orders to your team this way to make it happen. That was great. I just like games that are good versus evil

in terms of a scale. I think it's one of the more basic things that games do like Mass Effect and Fallout, but I like that shit. And I wish more games judged you based on the choices you made as opposed to just giving you choices. Sure, yeah. So like there's like forks in a row

and you can do this or this or whatever, but I'm like, that's fine, that's fun, but it's binary. That's why I love about New Vegas so much as New Vegas was what I described is such a gray game. Like, choices you made, like you weren't even really sure

if you were being good or bad. And then you would find out later and it would be too late. And I liked that kind of thing. I like games that do that. And I like games where it's not obvious if you're being Paragon or Renegade, but like leave you with uncomfortable choices

and the choices are permanent. I think that that stuff's, there's more than just giving a player agency, but more judging them based on all the choices they make as well. So I like that. I think Mass Effect does a really good job of that. I'm excited to see what Fallout does with that.

Final question in the day from Chimney Kid. Chimney Kid. Oh, I, Gavin. playing your chimney, get some porridge. My lord. Do you see a Mario Maker 2 in the future? If so, how can it be improved? If Mario Maker, I don't know if it'll be Mario Maker 2,

but if Mario Maker does not come out in some form on 3DS within the next year, I'm going to be shocked. Yeah, that's a good point. Completely shocked. I think it's going to sell really well, and I think they're going to look at it going towards NX of like, this is a no-brainer. Like, we had a system that didn't have the install base we wanted, but if we can make another Mario Maker,

which is weird that they already called, remember when it was originally Mario Maker and not Super Mario Maker because it would have been so easy to make Super Mario Maker on the next one. But whatever, I digress. Yeah, you'll see another one for sure. I doubt it'll be two. I bet they'll do something funny with the name. More of like a platform thing or something. I feel like, I hope

that this one does well enough that they apply it to other games, but I also think that other games might be a little too complicated. And Mario is the perfect thing that everybody gets Mario, everyone understands how it works and like having the game pad and stuff. It just, it makes sense. Sure. You know. But like a Zelda

Maker. I think anything besides Mario gets a little a little bit more focused in a way that kind of ruined. But it's one of those things where they're testing the waters. I mean, they're trying it because you figure like, look at what Little Big Planet is compared to Little Big Planet 3, right? And it was like, people took a little Big Planet where they were going to make

levels and started making games and making movies and doing all this different stuff. And like, you can't have Little Link in Mario Maker. You know what I mean? We Fit Train are all these different guys. Can you have Metroid? Has that been announced or anything? Thomas?

Yeah. I mean, so like, people are going to be. People are going to make levels that are this thing. They're going to break it in a way that they're trying to tell you a story and they're telling you to go get this next world and do-do. And like, if they're doing it on that level, Nintendo might have to look at it and be like, well, let's not call it Super Mario Maker.

Let's call it Nintendo Maker. And you can make a game or a level or it's play. Yeah, I think what Greg's saying is right. I think it's a great idea. I think this becomes more of a platform. And they just have to make it agnostic. The bigger thing I'm the bigger thing that I'm interested in seeing like what other platform holders are,

or not platform holders, but rather IP holders and stakeholders are going to do with their games. You know, this is, Mega Man Universe was supposed to be this game, and they canceled it. But there's a lot of games that, you know, I don't have to see that with a lot of classic games. I think doing it was Zelda would be great. I think Nintendo has all the IP necessary,

but I think, so I think Mario Maker just gets migrated. I don't think they're going to make a sequel. I think it just will always persist. So they should have done with Little Big Planet, but they didn't, they got greeny, even though, you know, the games talk to each other, or whatever, but Little Big Planet should have just been a ubiquitous thing.

So I hope they're smart enough with Mario Maker not to run it into the ground. I'm so excited for that game to come out. Yeah, see what people do. I saw Lucas Thomas, who we used to work with at IGN, recreated Bubble Man's level for Mega Man 2 in Mario. That's awesome. Like screen for screen.

It's awesome. And I was like, this is really cool. And you play as Mega Man. That's cool. Where's he working? Is he still doing freelance? He does Nintendo Force, them in magazine. This topic brought to you by Draft Kings.

Put your fantasy skills to the test starting Sunday at draft kings.com. America's favorite one week fantasy football site where you could kick the season off by winning two million dollars. It's the biggest fantasy football contest ever. Ten million dollars in prizes are up for grabs including two million for first place and one million for second. One week fantasy means no season long commitments. It's fantasy football on demand. Play where you want, when you want, with the players you want. This isn't fantasy as usual. This is Draft Kings. Welcome to the big time.

Hurry to draftkings.com and use promo code kind of funny to play for free for a shot at a part of $10 million in Sunday's Millionaire Maker event and they're kind of funny for free entry now only at draftkings.com that's draftkings.com I'm gonna do it. You're doing it?

I'm gonna do it. You're gonna win the mills? Yeah, good. According to my legal representation, Nick, I can do it. Good. Because I was worried by us, you know, doing the sponsorship that I'd be disqualified. But he said I should be okay.

Good. You're just promo code kind of funny. I'm going to be awesome. Thank you guys for joining me. Thank you guys for listening. We'll be back next week like we always are. And the week after that, the week after that, forever after.