Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Metaphor: ReFantazio Spoilercast - Kinda Funny Gamescast

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

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What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another Kind of Funny Games cast. You're home for all the big reviews, previews, and topics of discussion in video games right here at Kind of Funny, where today we will be spoiling metaphor. Refonatazio. My name is Barrett Courtney. I'm one of your hosts today. And today, I think we've put together the crew that I think makes the most sense for a metaphor spoiler cast. First up, we've got the man.

Many would consider to be the blue-haired protagonist for Kind of Fonda. funny. It is. Blessing. Adioje, Jr. What's up? I never thought about myself as the blue-haired protagonist. Yeah. I was coming up with fun intros yesterday, and that was pretty much the inspiration that I got yesterday when I texted you, like, hey, I would love to host and, like, do intros because I was thinking of fun intros. I was like, what could I introduce blessing as? And I was thinking, you know, he brings a little bit of that MC energy at times. There are times where you're like, can I get a blankie at this function? And that is definitely, like,

NPC energy, but I would say as like a host for kind of funny, I'm like, he brings a certain M. I'll be the MC with a hint of Teddy. Okay, okay. Yeah, I like that. Just small hint, just small, I gotta keep him guessing, you know? I don't think you want to say that about yourself. Oh, yeah. Next up,

Morgana. Okay, yeah. Small hint to Morgana. Yeah. Next up, we got the man who brings a certain energy to the podcast, the same kind of energy. I would imagine one Basilio Magnus would bring to a podcast. It is, my boy, Michael P. Hi.

Hi. Oh, that is a very high compliment because I will get into why that means so much to me. Yeah, Basilio's the fucking dude and we'll get it all into it. He was a character, Michael,

you joined us for the review. There's a character that I wanted to talk about. But we couldn't. But we couldn't because, you know, we were given specific things that we were allowed to talk about.

People hadn't played it yet. Yeah, so, uh, yeah, I was thinking it was like, he brings, he brings some of that like, the boy who's about to like bring,

like, bring the heat in the function. know kind of thing. But also, I was thinking of like, what kind of podcast would Basileo like be on? And I immediately, I was like, he'd be on a cooking show. And he, he would talk about like fun recipes that he has learned throughout his journeys. That would quickly devolve into. But then, yeah, we went to this bar and we beat the shit out of this one guy and all this up. We got Henny shots. Yo, I would love to take shots of Henny with Basileo. That would be a fucking party. That would be a party. And we put this out publicly who the cast was. So you might be wondering, we originally had a four. chair. And our fourth chair who is supposed to join us today is a man that I think most of us would consider to be the father of all Atlas knowledge in our friend circles. And we often look to him for his fatherly guidance, just like the metaphor party, looks to one Heismay, Andrew Goldfarb, texted me this morning saying that he was feeling under the weather. So unfortunately,

he could not join us today, which I'm really bummed about. I know he's really bummed about because when I hit him up to join us for this spoiler cast, he was really excited. So I know he's probably feeling it. So send him some sweet. nasty love, wherever you follow him. It's like when you go to your followers list on metaphor and you want to hang out with that specific person and like they're just unavailable. Yeah.

You know, yeah, exactly. Or it's like, hey, I'm ready to hang out, but like on the next trip, like when we're back on the gauntlet runner, then we can hang out.

And I was thinking, I was like, okay, I've come up with all of these, you know, fun intros for everybody. Bless as the MC. Higham is Basileo.

Goldfarb is high as man. I was like, damn, who would I be in this, in this. And I immediately, I quickly came up with an answer. I wonder what y'all think. What's funny is I would have gone Heismay. Oh, interesting. Okay. Do you have to be a party member? Or can you be like a follower? I could be anybody. I could be anybody. You could be stupid sexy stroll if you want to. That wasn't who I thought of. That is the one who I thought of. Trull is sexy.

Oh. See, now I'm blanking on party members, right? Because I, because I don't view you as you. I will give you one hint. It was not a party member. Oh, yeah. Is there a, hmm, Maria's mother. Would you ever fake your death? Would I ever fake my death? Yeah, if you ever got into like wild debt.

Now I'm thinking about it. I might want to do that. Oh, yeah, I know who you're talking about. I'm blanking on his name right now. But no, that was not the person I was thinking of. It took a beat and I was like, fuck, I'm Dell. I'm this little piece of shit. That's what I'm going to say.

He's really fucking angry. That's what I'm like, doesn't trust people, but very, very, very. very, very, very, very deep down. I do have a soft spot. I do have a soft spot for the people who fucking show up and are the homies. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. So, ladies gentlemen, NBs, we're about to spoil metaphor refentazio.

So if you're not finished the game, you might want to click off bookmark this video and come back to it when you're ready. That's why we do spoil their cast. You know, it's here for whenever you're ready for it. But we thought it would be fitting to kind of do it around this time. Metaphor just got nominated for Game of the Year at the Game of the Game of the Year at the Game It's also been about a month and a half since the game's been out.

So I feel like... People are starting to finish it now. Slowly starting to trickle in onto the other side. But remember, this is the Kind of Funny Games cast each and every weekday we get together to talk about the biggest reviews, previews, and topics and video games live on YouTube, Twitch, and podcast services around the globe.

If you love what we do, please support us with the Kind of Funny membership on Patreon or YouTube to get all of our shows ad-free. Watch us record them live and get a daily exclusive show known as Greg Way. A little bit of housekeeping for you. It's Thanksgiving week in the United States. So kind of funny is having a super short week of content.

Look forward to your regularly scheduled shows. Today is the last day that we're doing anything this week. We're out for the rest of the week starting tomorrow. And remember, we're an 11-person business all about live talk shows. You already got Kind of Funny Games Daily, which was all about Mike Manati being cast as the lead in the live action Netflix adaptation of Ridge Racer. I made that up because no, we're not recording this live. I had to make up a kind of funny games.

I thought it was tripping. I was like, I pre-reporting daily. I don't remember this happening. We are pre-recording this mainly because both Roger and Kevin are out this week. And so I didn't want to put the stress on anybody who is running the show. Shout out to Cool Greg, who's running the show right now, of making sure all of the live stuff was going on. So we are pre-recording this and then streaming. it live for everybody

for Twitch to watch it live and all that good stuff but then after Kind of Funny Gamescast you will get the Kind of Funny Podcast Thanksgiving edition being streamed for everybody that'll be taking place of our normally scheduled gameplay stream

that's how we're going to end the week with a fun little Thanksgiving hang for a live kind of funny podcast That is an interesting cast because right now I'm looking at the calendar it's just Mike bless Nick and Joey or we're Tim and Greg Greg's not here Tim's working from home

They got families Yeah they got families Everybody who doesn't have a family So it's pretty much just like Everybody left Everybody left I'm gonna pitch So that's gonna be at the thing

That's gonna be here at the table I don't know if we've done this before On Kind of Funny podcast But I want to do A Thanksgiving food draft Oh shit But like that sounds like something We've probably done before

I don't know if it is I'm sure there's been a conversation Of like One of the best Thanksgiving food Turkey odd being at the very bottom. I'd love to do that. We can get into that another day. If you're a kind of funny member, you can get today's Gregway, who's doing it today. I have no idea. Maybe it's Greg. Maybe it's someone else.

But you'll have to wait and see. Thank you to our Patreon producers, Carl Jacobs and Delaney Twining. Today we're brought to you by Shady Rays and ORAFRAIMS, but we'll tell you about that later. For now, let's get into topic of the show. Tots, tuts, tuts, tats, tats, tats. It's time to finally spoil metaphor re-fantazio. To kind of kick it off, usually when I'm a part of a spoiler cast, I like to write my own kind of big pull-a-point recap of like the overall plot.

And this is the first time I've ever tried to do that for an 80 to a hundred-hour JRP. It's tough, huh? And so I thought it would be useful for some of us, especially Michael and I here at the table, where it's been like a month and a half since we've finished metaphor. and maybe for some of you all out there that also burned through it very quickly when it first came out. I'm sure some of y'all who have recently beat it

you're going to be like, ah, we don't need this, but, you know, just to kind of spark up some thoughts and ideas, I thought it would be good to kind of get an overall synopsis breakdown of metaphor refantazio. The king of Eukronia has been killed by Luis, which leaves an empty throne for the kingdom for someone to take over.

You are the protagonist, an elden boy who is constantly judged by his race, on a mission to infiltrate the royal army and either kill Luis or finds the spell he allegedly put on the believed to be killed prince, who is in a coma and can only awake if the castor for his curse is either killed or the curse itself is reversed through magic. You start off this quest aided by the fairy Gallica. During a failed assassination attempt on Luis, which ends with your confidant Gris being killed, it's revealed that the late king used his royal magic to hold an election for the next king in case of his untimely death, where whoever holds the most trust from the people of the kingdom shall be crowned as the next king.

You decide to enter into the election to find another opportunity to get close to Louise and reverse the prince's curse, but eventually decide to run in the prince's stead. Along the way you build a loyal team who believe in your quests, who all come from different races and backgrounds. Stroll, a nobleman son, Holkenberg, a former Kingsguard, Heismay, a Ujeefe, who was formerly a part of the royal shadow guard, Lady Juna, a music idol, Eufa, the younger sister of the Mustari chief, and Basilio, a parapess who was a part of Luis's inner circle.

On your election quest, you go through trials to make a name for yourself and win over the hearts and minds of the kingdom's people. During all of this, it's revealed that the attempted assassination of the prince was not led by Louise, but in fact sanctifax Forden, the head of the sanctus church,

who was making a play for more power over the kingdom. The Eldon tribe, who you are one of the very few left of are descendants of humans, which people only know today as grotesque monsters, and that Luis is secretly an elder himself, who is plotting the destruction of the kingdom in retaliation for the kingdom's complacency for the conditions of its people. The biggest twist in the game, however, is that you are not actually the childhood friend of the prince, but in fact, the prince himself. And through the magic of your mother's tribe, your consciousness, a part of your consciousness was put inside the prince's ideal form of a typical hero.

and therefore the prince got to actually live the hero's journey he had always dreamed of. Through this major revelation, you have a final showdown with Louise, who came from the same village the prince eventually took refuge in. You defeat Luis with the power of friendship and take your place as the true rightful heir to the throne. There's also an epilogue that takes place a year later where it's shown that you are very much a materialist king who understands that the need of the people is the only way to build towards anything close to a utopia. The end. I take beef with only one part of this recap. The part where you say you defeat Luis with the power of friendship.

I didn't play 100 hours in this video game to get the power of friendship get the credit. Yeah, okay. I grinded. You did. And we'll talk about that grind and like some of the specific endgame stuff that you did that I didn't do. Because I wanted to. Yeah. Because I wanted to beat the game for review embargo.

And there's some end game, you know, I can. We don't know. Yeah, we're just getting full on into it. There's like a last string of side quests. Yes. It's also about the trials of the dragon or something like that. So you had to go to the three towers that you've visited throughout the game. You return to them.

And then in each of the tower, there is a dragon that you fight. And again, this is like the end side content. We're getting into it. So we're getting into it. We're talking about it. And so the only thing I've known is that I started all three of those different fights. And I was like, man, I do not have the sauce to do this right now and try to also beat the game. So my only understanding of it right now is kind of like meeting that fairy at the very beginning of this quest.

Who's like, hey, I'm another fairy. You're trying to fight these dragons? Good luck. And so what happens through that? Yeah. So like, I mean, the fairy is kind of there just to kind of usher you through. Like there's not, I don't think there's any big reveal particularly about that fairy. Okay.

But like you fight the dragons. The fights are brutal, right? Like they're the most difficult fights in the game. Yeah. Aside from maybe the last fight, depending on how he'll approach. tough fight as well. Yeah, and that fight can get tougher depending on how you tackle like the last quest. Yeah. But yeah, you fight the dragons and then

after you defeat all three dragons, you then get a last fight, like a fourth thing to do. Right? That is located, Michael, you can correct me from wrong. It's at like the dungeon where you like meet UFO, right? Does it go back to the temple? I think it goes back to that temple. I forget if you did you all, I don't think I beat the dragons. Okay. But I saw somebody else do the fight, the fourth fight that you get.

And I was like, yeah, it ain't for me. I'm still playing it for review. It was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna finish the dragon fights at least. And then I'll see what's next. And then I probably can't do it. I was like, yeah, I can't do this. So I do have to, I did have to finish the game. But I saw someone else do it. And it's pretty nuts how you're supposed to figure that out. You go back to that original temple. You go back to like the very end of it. And you go into a room that is overflowing with, uh, magla. Right? I think it's like with, I don't know if it's called dark magla, but it's like, when you see a

boss door usually you can see the magla out of it. There's like a lot of that magla coming out of this door. You go in and essentially oh man, I wish I didn't even think to like go back and revisit this part to like, you know, talk about this accurately, but you basically get into a boss fight with an evil

version of yourself. What the fuck? Oh, you didn't know that, Barry? No, because I didn't complete this quest and so like it's part of the reason why I do want to start a new game plus run is because of like being able to experiment with like the kind of archetype layouts and stuff more.

I feel like a second time around going after those dragons, I feel like I'd have a bit more of the sauce to actually beat them and stuff. So yeah, I did not know that that's where that ended. Because when you texted me of like, oh shit, there's a fourth final thing. I was like, oh, probably another dragon, right? Which is what I thought. When I texted, I was like, oh, man, okay, there's a fourth dragon. Let's go.

Your shadow self. Yeah, and then you get there and you find your shadow self. And when I tell you, oh, wait, I have the video. How do I get the video? you know what, this is one of those ones where I saved the video on my home, PS5. And it was in the cloud for like two weeks. And so I don't have access to it anymore. It's at home, but I don't have access to it for this episode right here.

You figure out how to beat that, how to beat your shadow self? Yes. Okay. So this is the crazy thing. It's crazy. It's wild. You start off, right? You go first, obviously.

You do your turn. And then when your shadow self goes, immediately one shot kills everybody. Like, every single time. And that feels typical for kind of like a persona where you do like the secret. like Elizabeth fight or the twins or something like that. There's a gimmick behind it is that you know how during the dragon fights

or maybe you don't because like again during the dragon fights you'll kind of learn to use a lot of the reflecting stuff because reflecting like we'll get rid of all the turn icons and for the enemy and then you can go right so that's kind of like the cheat code slash strategy around it is to have reflective stuff and so naturally going into that

to that fight you're going to have a bunch of reflective stuff on because you also are winning these or earning these reflective items from the dragons that you beat mainly reflective to fire but you go into that fight he won kills you each time and I had to look this up online

you have to basically take off any reflective items that you have in order to fight you got a raw dog it you got a raw dog it yeah okay and then it turns into more of a fair fair quote unquote fight you're getting your ass whoops because guess why you don't have any reflective items

but also the cool thing about this fight is because you're fighting another version the evil version of the main character, basically he is switching archetypes in real time. And so like every few turns, he's like, all right, busting out this archetype, and now his moves are completely different and his weaknesses are completely different.

Yeah, that's so cool. It's a really cool fight. You kind of have to be on it though. I know it's been a bit, but like, what is the like story war behind like you fighting yourself? I'm trying to look it up. Because I'm pretty sure it's like a version that is made just purely of magla,

but I'm trying to figure out like, I'm gonna look it up as I'm gonna. Maybe like a version made with a maglo without like the prince's like kind of consciousness in it or something like that something like that huh huh yeah uh i i think i think it's dope that metaphor has let's see i mean they all kind of have like a secret final boss but it felt very final fantasy to me where like like ultimate weapon and like final fantasy seven or some shit yeah where i've like oh you defeat the other like you don't have to in the main story it's like oh but you can you can fight these other weapons or these other dragons and

then get that get that final fight that is ridiculously hard um so uh i didn't complete myself because i was like yeah i need a i need to i need to finish this game at some point. I understand it, Michael. It's a in concept. It is a it is really cool to see metaphor do something like that. Hell yeah. So I'm glad that we talked about that. I'm glad that that's where we started. From here on out, we're kind of going to go a little bit free flow because I feel like there is so much to talk about for this game. So I want to talk, I want to start off with like what we want to talk about the most. And Michael, I want to start with you. Like what from this game do you want to like really get into the nitty gritty of first? Uh, I guess I, we can,

We can start quite broadly. I mean, I do want to talk specifics about characters, but I think more broadly, the message of the game. Yes. Because that was the one thing that going into this that I was most paying attention to,

because I trust Atlas to tell a deep story with the sort of, with the chops that they bring to tell stories through like P3, P4, to a certain extent, and P5. Yeah. And even Catherine to, in some regard, right?

So, but, You go into this and they're tackling political topics like racism, classism, and, you know, what you do with power and how people exploit power and how that manifests throughout the world. But I think the one thing that I thought a lot about was, of course, they say all the right things about classism and racism and things like that. And it's like, okay, cool. They get it. You know, I sure hope they did. Yeah.

Before they go into this, I'll like, I sure hope they do. And they did. but the thing that really stuck with me afterwards and Will over time is how this game views how how fickle public opinion is because that was a part of P5 as well right with the Phantom Thieves approval rating it kind of manifests here with your ranking your popularity ranking as you do more and more stuff in this game and it does the thing of like oh you have this fall from grace and then yeah it goes full attack on Titan mode or louise turns you into uh turns you turns you into a human.

Yeah. That was like a big turning point. I was shocked by that moment too. Because like I knew going into this, we had like our secret envelope where we had like predictions about what this game is going to say. One of mine was Elda are actually descendants of humans. I mean, it turns out that like everyone is a descendant of humans. Yeah, but they're the most closely tied.

And then so when that happened, we're like, I fucking knew it. But it's not that like, oh my God, it's this big plot twist. It's like how they use that plot twist against you or to kind of change your perception of the story. it's like, okay, well, now that you are known to be descendants of humans, what do you do from there? And that's when you go through the village and kind of get that big lore drop about the truth behind this world and where you come from and who you are specifically. Who you are. And then so, but through that, like your popularity ranked drops and then you have to like kind of rebuild yourself and then you end up fighting Luis. But even when you do finish the game and people are kind of have your backing and all that and, you know, the message is like, you've got to keep working for this.

You don't just solve a problem and then cool, the world is nice. It's all well. I adore that the epilogue is a year later. Yeah. And seeing the work still being done specifically by you. Yeah. And I think that that sounds the right message. And I think that's, that is the truth of the matter is that, you know, the work doesn't

stop at a certain point. You get a person. You just beat the big bad and then it all magically goes, goes away. There's still structures and systems in place that are still kind of, Keeping people down to a certain extent and working against people while working for others. And yeah, it really hit me, like, getting that, like, year later and seeing you incognito, like, talking to just, like, a random dude in a bar and just, like, listen, like, truly just listening to the needs and the problems of the people. And maybe kind of recognizing of, like, oh, that's, that might be a little bit of a misguided hatred of, like, what you're talking about.

but why do you start to think that way? And like, what do we need to do to help people to not, you know, harbor certain feelings towards others, right? Yeah. And the thing, too, is there comes a certain point where Luis just, like, goes mask off full on. In public, mask off. You know that he's a tyrant.

You know, he wants to destroy the world or, like, his various motivations become very clear to everyone. But he still has the backing of the people. And I'm like, yeah, that kind of, that does happen. And we saw it happen in our real world. in real time multiple times. But I was told several times that there is no connection

between this game and real world politics. Absolutely not. Not at all. Couldn't be them. But I think if I had played this game in maybe 2010

or if I was a teenager and played this game, but like, oh, fantasy world, all this stuff is far-fetched. That would never happen, right? But our context is very different now as adults who have seen our world changing some very drastic ways

that we once thought, impossible right and then so the way that story though those concepts manifest in metaphor are very they feel very real like Luis still has popular backing people do want are

are swayed by tyrants who exert power and in some regard some one of the messages of the game is like you know sometimes people want authoritarian governments they want to be told what to do they want to be fed into this power structure where they feel superior they are part of the people

in power against others who are below them. And that feeds into these inner desires of people. And that is one of the consistent messages through the game. We were talking about when we were in the middle of playing it, to me, so much of this game felt like the leads of this game kind of looking back and having a post-mortem on Persona 5. Because a lot of Persona 5 is those same themes as well. And I think a lot of the major themes of Persona 5 and what they were trying to get at in

Persona 5 gets kind of lost in all of the other stories being told throughout that game. I feel like this time around they're like, all right, we need to have this like heart on our fucking R, a heart on our sleeves. Like it's not subtext. It is the text. And like to really drill into the brains of people like this is what we're trying to fucking talk about. That is one of my lines in my review is like this game is not interested in subtext.

No. Yeah. And it's for cowards. Yeah. Yeah. Subtext is for cowards. And I think some people will look at this and think, oh, like it's very on the nose and it's and all that.

And yes, it is. And maybe that's to its detriment. But I think it can be to its benefit because there's, you don't have to make any guesses about what this game is about. Like there's no like, oh my God, this game is trying to be woke whatever. No, they are fucking telling you what this game is about. And they're telling you what their message is up front without any implication. Yeah, any implications.

It's very fucking clear what this game is trying to say. Yeah. And I think for a lot of people, this might be their introduction to these kinds of concepts. because I can imagine myself, you know, if I'm like 16 or 17, I love playing RPGs. Oh my God. Like, oh, I played persona 5 when I was like younger and I didn't really get it, but it was cool, see cool characters and style, all that shit. Yeah. Then you play something like this, like, oh, I like these kinds of games.

And then you get introduced to this fucking, like, this wild world where all these things, like, this might be your first introduction to a political text. You know, read a book and all that. Cool. But, you know, people are going to play video games. And like, there's, for example, like, the original. Deus X was one of my introductions to like the concepts of power structures and governments

and conspiracies and through that I'm like oh shit this is kind of based on real things like the Illuminati well I don't think the Illuminati exists if it does hey shoot me an invite I'm down but just the idea like these

concepts and ideas being fed to me as a 13 year old I was like oh my God like I can't believe this stuff is based in reality to certain extent especially with like AI and government control all these things like that was introduced to me through days X and then from there I got really into politics and government I studied it and I became I got involved in like in politics professionally for a certain amount of time and then so I imagine like this this being one of someone's introductory experiences to these concepts and I think if that is if that when that happens to somebody this is a very good one of those yeah so this isn't meant for like college graduates who have studied politics politics and all the ins and outs of Marxism and all that shit. Like that's not really what this game is for. Yeah.

But it is a good one of those where it's like they demonstrate an understanding of the concepts they are working with and they tell a full story around it and they don't pull any punches. Yeah. I think sometimes and a lot of the time, honestly, you need that like 101 or 102 class to get people in. And like similar to you, Michael, right? Like for me, it was playing Metal Gear Solid 3 as a kid and playing the Metal Gear Solid franchise that opened my eyes up in terms of like, the relationship between military and government and what a independent military can be and, like,

you know, conspiracy and, like, you know, a lot of things that probably are a result of how I think and behave now are probably, probably stem back to me playing Metal Gear Solid 3 when I was, like, young and impressionable. And I think I might have mentioned this before with Metal 4B Fantasia in terms of, like, how it goes about its own themes in, in subjects, which is, yeah, like, I wouldn't, this isn't a high, advanced level politics class of a video game, but it is, I think a really good, like, base level of, hey, you are in a fantasy world and they are holding their first election because they're in a system that is, you know, typically a royal, we're going to pass this down via blood or whatever it is.

Like, no, like, we are doing an election. It's going to be the first election of these people. And it's them having to grapple with the talking points and the topics that you do with an election that's determined by the people in real time and have to figure out, like, what those conversations are, whether it is, like, based on race, whether it's based on class, whether it's based on, like, whatever kind of, like, service levels is the wrong word for it, but I guess, like, you know, visible, uh, category of person that you can like, fine, right? Like, they're having those conversations in real time and I found it, it found it fascinating to do, like, the debates because

I'm trying to raise my eloquence or whatever and like, and like, but in the process of doing that, it's like, oh. Yeah. Like, they're getting into those conversations and like, you know, the people will say a certain thing and I have to respond. And, and, you know, I have low eloquence, my response is going to be trash. But as they get higher, right, I'm able to have that dialogue with people and, like, kind of, you know, have those topics touched on in a way where I'm like, okay, cool. Like, I like the fact that we are talking about this openly, right? The fact that, like, we can talk about Heismay as a U-Gief and how that puts him in a place

where people are more likely to believe that he is responsible for this fucked up shit, right? Kidnapping children, right? Right, because he's a U-GF, right? Like, you know, he's a lesser tribe. He's a lesser tribe. He's a lesser tribe, right? Or like your main character being an elder and how like that factors into your day to day of existing in that world. Like I really like how they go about it.

And I think when you take that subject matter and layer on top of it the fantasy element, but then also the idea of like the human element of it and the mystery there as far as, oh, this is maybe a fantasy surreal that is built on top of the remains of a previous human society. Or is it like, you know, there's, I think they weave that stuff together. other really well in a way that I think one lends really good mystery early on but then also I think allows for the subject matter to grow and breathe very naturally throughout the game yeah in a similar vein we talked about this on our metaphor versus persona games cast where it was refreshing to play this game um in an election year where it is purely about uh rising up against kind

of like traditional two-party systems or lesser than evil voting yeah or you've got the head of the state church and then the head of like the military essentially who is like kind of distance himself from the military to try to, you know, seem like he is someone new and different. And it kind of seeing everybody running, mostly those main two, but a lot of people running, recognizing that there's a lot of anger from people who are just trying to survive every day and how good at swaying those people and directing that anger to the things that are unwarranted, you know, politicians are,

which I would say the top two were like the most serious politicians. And then everybody else is like kind of learning as they go. And you know, like shout out to is her name Catherine in this one? Yeah, Katharina. Yeah, Catherine. Like everybody just trying to figure shit out because they're also just angry and they're just like trying to figure out like what the fuck do we do. Yeah. And being someone who can rise.

above the noise and actually run on the frustrations and anger of the people and not have an ulterior motive to that. Like that was something seeing with the main plot of the game that like really, really stuck with me and it's just like, God, goddamn. Yeah. That's a good story. That's a good video game right there. I do like where we end up in the latter half, maybe toward the end of the game, where

they talk about anxiety being the root cause of like how you were able to harness Magla. but then also Luis, like, using people's anxiety to its benefit, right? Like, I think that is a point that I was like, okay, this is very smart. Like, this is one of those ones where, of course, it's so on the nose, but also, you know, I think a lot of the time we need that because, I don't know, like, for me, it just worked. The idea that, like, this guy who is a tyrant who does not have Hewles' best interests in mind, who's, like, looking out for himself and also looking out for destruction and all this stuff, right? like he's able to you know get people on his side because he sees that the people are

anxious he sees that the people are like you know unhappy whatever it is and he's able to like twist that to his benefit it's so like oh damn this is real right right here yeah and like it's it's it's not subtext but it's important to like make that a key point of your story if you were going to tell a story about a political story about an election and fighting this tyrant. Like that is a key part of making sure you communicate how this guy is an actual villain. It's like, yeah, he's the bad guy. I got to fight, right? But he's exploiting something. And he's manipulating people to his benefit. And like that's again, like that's a core concept. But it is consistent throughout and is convincing. So by the time you make it to the end, you're like,

oh yeah, I understand why I was fighting this guy, why he was bad for people. And so yeah, that makes metaphor's story feel complete. It feels like they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they pose all these questions and they answer them. Yeah. Towards the end. And I think it's like to your point, like it's a great answer of, you know, how this is happening. And also like, I mean, a big theme of this game obviously is metaphors, right?

This is like, the game is like the game is on the nose with its references, but also on the nose with its metaphors and like very like, hey, look at what we're doing here. And so yeah, it being that anxiety is like, you know, it allows for Magla, which allows for essentially power. Yeah, like I think that's a really cool one for one as far as like what happens in the real world as far as like, you know, an election we just had and like being a lot of people in the world, but also especially in our country, right, are like fucking anxious and like what are the results that that brings, right? Like who are the people that are running that can be that can be able to capitalize on top of how people feel, those negative feelings that people feel. People are unhappy. How do we make an enemy within? Like all this shit, right? Like, you know, there's a really cool one for one. one that the game does with being able to,

I guess, speak on that stuff. And, like, that's not just the United States thing. That's a road-wide thing as far as how leaders are able to manipulate people in order to, like, you know, gain power from it. But yeah, I love how metaphor, I guess uses its metaphors in that way. There are a few, like, within that,

there are a few moments in which a few lines throughout the game that really convince me that, like, oh, they, like, they're covering their bases. I think two of them come from Heismay when you have the intro conversation with him. It's really funny because they show the the art screen with all the different colored hands holding each other.

And I was like, all right, I know what y'all trying to say. But within that, he says, like, he says something about like diversity being one of humanity's greatest strengths. And like, of course, yes, that is true. And also, he also says equal foot, equal competition does not guarantee equal footing.

And that's the whole concept behind affirmative action. And so I'm like, oh, okay, like that the game is just saying that outright. And it's coming from Heismay, who is the one who has experienced these things. in his life. And then there's also, early on, you talked to the activist woman in Grand Trad, and she was like, yeah, I wish more people were like you who are willing to, like, pitch in because,

you know, nothing happens if you don't take action. And that's just like, oh, yeah, of course, like, we know that. But at least the game says it outright. So there's no mistaking what they're trying to say. Yeah. It's a game that's, like, not afraid to have a message and it's not afraid to, like, have its own politics and be able to preach, like, preach those messages. Yeah.

Right? It's political. but also we have something to say here. Yeah. I want to keep talking about the major themes of this game because obviously there's a lot of political themes in this game, but there's another theme that I want to talk about, which is the theme of fiction and what fiction does to truly inspire people.

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they told us they will send you a brand new pair, no questions asked. exclusively for you listening right now Shadyrays is giving out their best deal head to Shadyrays.com and use code kind of funny for 50% off two or more pairs of shades try for yourself the shades rated five stars by over 300,000 people Shadyrays.com use code kind of funny for 50% off two or more pairs of shades I am looking for the quote I am so close to finding this quote I'm sure I go hi I'm watching the intro video I'm watching the intro video I'm watching the video of this like, like, 48-hour video.

Michael Hyam, is fantasy limited to the confines of imagination? Would you call it a powerless creation? I would not call it a powerless creation. That goes hard. It goes so hard. It very much sets out. That's the kind of first question that, I believe, Moore asks you at the very beginning of the game.

More is more or less the narrator at that point. And I really love what this game also has. Obviously, there's a lot of, There's a lot of political messages. There's a lot of trying to awaken people to recognize their material conditions around them and get them to look at the first steps that they can take to improve those things. And it also grapples with like, just because we ask that of you, does that actually make it effective? Right.

And for me, that, like, really was like a big point that I love that I think really came together when you learn that you are actually a part of the consciousness of the prince. And he grew up, and you learned that, like, you grew up reading this fantasy book about, like, this utopia that very much looks like our society and all this stuff.

And he actually got to live out his fantasy of being this hero who actually did stuff to help society, kind of reflecting back on, you know, audiences who kind of consume, art and what does that actually do to inspire them to like live out their ideals. Yeah, it's, uh, it was probably the, that's, that was the thing that hit me the hardest. And I'm probably going to cry in the second half of this goddamn podcast because holy shit, dude.

Um, and it's really funny that it came from Atlas. Yep. Um, because persona five was a turning point in my life where I had just moved to San Francisco. I didn't really know anybody. And having played that game, it, it felt like a weight off my shoulders in terms of like, oh, this is, it felt easier to talk to people. Like, through the social link, the confidant system and bonding with these characters, I'm like, oh, these conversations aren't as scary or as I should, I don't have to be as

anxious to have to try and build these connections. And it made it a lot easier for me to talk to my parents, talk to my brother. My family, I was the youngest one. And it was kind of hard to have conversations about certain things with my mom and my dad, my brother. But after I playing P5, I was like, oh, this, I feel like I have a new lens in which I can see the rest of the world. That piece of fiction tangibly affected my life

for the better. So, like, yeah, and I say that for a couple of other games, like Final Fantasy 14, like Persona 3. Just to name a few, a thousand times resist is up there as well. So, yeah, the power of,

the fiction can change you, but it's like, what do you do with that story that you love so dearly? Are you going to turn it into action? That's why I thought a lot about P4. was like, I got more involved in, I've always worked in politics, but I felt like at a certain point, I need to be active in my own way. And I need to do something. Like, I'm, I need to take action in order to change something. That is what P5 is about. And then so I got politically

involved in my own life. So it's like, yes, these, these works of fiction can motivate you to be better to do something more. So when that, that's the first question they ask you in metaphor. And that is the last thing they leave you with. It's like, hey, we hope that this, We hope that this story, you can carry this into your own life. Yeah, I want to bring up, I wasn't just rudely on my phone while you're talking about all this. I'm going to bring up a quote from Gallica near the end of the game where she says, you've got the, you've got the power to change the world, and the one who gave it to you was, well, yourself. Yeah.

And I think that really drives home of, like, you know, fiction can change things and can push people, but it's still the steps you need to take to continue to strive to live up to your ideals. and make positive changes to the world around you. And that theme, because they always, they poke and poke around with that idea,

like throughout the game, it's like, oh, yeah, this is a piece of, this is a fiction, huh? And it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, I get it.

But when you go back to the elder village and you get the reveal that you're an avatar of the prince, that you are the hero in his book, that fucked me up. Yeah.

Because, like, the prince dead, he dies, but like you live on through him and all of the all of the dreams that he had in that book the thing like the the early scene where you're in the forest with him and then

he's holding on to the book and it's like yeah well like this is the story I love and I want to be a hero and then you have that conversation with you like as a young version of the protagonist like you'll be a hero someday trust me and then they like they shake hands and lifts him up

and like the prince is sick but so he doesn't physically have the power to do anything about it but he believes in this story that means so much to him and then through the power of magic creates an avatar based on the hero in that book that he loves so much and like that whole idea

of my avatar or my idealized hero is the one who changed the world is like that is just like a like the most on the nose I guess direct way to show you to tell that story that this piece of fiction can change the world

if you can put that energy into the world if you can learn the lessons of your pieces of fiction, then you can change the world too. It's an optimistic way of looking at things, but it is beautiful in that same way. Like, it doesn't have to be necessarily, like, nuanced or, like, it could just be that and it's powerful enough. And I think that the way metaphor tells that is, it's amazing. Like, when, because they replay that forest scene and that's when you realize, like,

oh, I was never real. I'm not a real person. and like the prince had no one to lean on. His only friend was that imaginary friend of that book. And it's like, man, that should fuck me up, man, because I can imagine just like these kinds of stories where like, this is all you, this is all you really have. And it kind of remind me a little bit of how it was to play Persona 5

when I first moved here in San Francisco. Or I'm like, ah, no, these are my friends here. Like, I'll kick it. I'll kick it with it. I'm still learning everyone. I'm still learning who everyone is at the game spot. office. I'm still making friends trying to see how I fit in, whatever. But I come back

here and like, oh, I'm chilling with the homies. These are my people. That's why, like, it hits so fucking hard when I finished P5 because I'm like, fuck. Those were the friends. Yeah. It's like, I got to say about it. I got to go now. Yeah. Yeah. Because so I understand what metaphor is saying. I understand what that

protagonist or what the prince is feeling in that moment. Well, I think one of the things that's very excellent about this, right? And like, I think it really hit from me as Bearer was reading the recap. I bolded this part, you know, talking about the big twist, right? The biggest twist in the game is that you are not actually the childhood friend of the prince, but in fact, the prince himself. And through the magic of your mother's tribe, their consciousness was put inside the prince's

ideal form of a typical hero. And therefore, the prince got to actually live the hero's journey he had always dreamed of, right? Like, the prince is us, right? Like, we are seeing this avatar on screen live out, like, our dreams, live out this, like, adventure, live out this thing where they get to be the hero and they get to inflict change. And, in return, like there's this synergistic like relationship that we have with ourselves the game and like the message of the game wants to portray. Like I think one of the powerful things

and I think this is where the game goes from being on the nose to actually being like very layered and deep in a way that is almost like a looping message that it has here where you know the hero in the game starts off with asking what is your name and for me I name every character in a video game my name right? Like I am playing as myself But and they, they, like, say, like, what is your name?

You will name the protagonist later. Yes. And so I name, I was like, okay, well, my name's blessing. They're like, later on, you know, for you, maybe an hour or so into the game, they're like, all right, name the protagonist. And I'm like, okay, well, I can't name him blessing. Like, because I am a character in this. Like, they want me to be a character.

And there's such a smart way to, like, drive that home. Yeah. And so, like, I ended up naming my character, Kendrick one after that Kendrick, but then also. Of course you did. Because I have to you. But then also the name Kendrick means king. And so, like, in a way, like,

kind of did it for the symbolism of that. But, you know, your main character in the game, he is reading this book that is reflective of the society that, like, we currently live in. But to him, it is a fiction, again, or is it? Because you get later in the game where, like, there's a big kind of back and forth. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that for sure. Like, you know, there is this, he's reading, like, our world's fiction, which is

affecting his story. His story is at the same time, you know, a reflection of the prince's story. because he is living out this thing, like he is an avatar of what the prince wants to be. The prince in this scenario is pretty much who we are as a player because we are seeing this thing take place through the game. And I think the way that they connect all those things is super beautiful and super great because, yeah, like,

I think the messes there is so strong as far as the power of fiction and the power that, like, stories. And for us, like, we play so many video games, right? Like, I can think of so many games that I've played that have had such a positive effect on me as a person, right? like one of my favorite things or like one of my favorite yeah one of my favorite things I've listened to as far as

like people on a podcast talk about a game and how they affected them is like going back to when Greg Miller first talked about gone home and like hearing how you know powerful of a game gone home was for him that leading then to me playing gone home and me having this experience of wow this is a powerful

story and this is making me think about like people our relationships like you know what love means all this stuff in a different way and you like jump around to different games, right, that have these messages, oh, what was the mobile game that was about, like, a young adult that fell in love and then over time broke

up. Florence. Florence. Yeah, like, the profound effect that Florence had on me is a video game, right? Like, there are so many games and so many stories, works of fiction that, like, can have profound effects, and, like, that is a big aspect of this game that I think they really nail home. Yeah, and so

another thing, too, is, like, when you mentioned naming the different, like, you name yourself first, and then you name your character and I was like oh cool what are they gonna do with that oh they're trying to like make a connection to a real world

and it's like okay that's kind of a neat concept but the ending monologue to this game brought that all together I remember I finished this game and I was playing at Lucy's place because I was watching the cats

and so I was just like on her couch at like 2 a.m. watching the ending to this game and I was just like in a puddle of tears I could not stop just like it wasn't like oh I'm sad or whatever I was just like kind of overwhelmed by the message and how it was how it was given. So like I rewatch that cutscene a lot.

I'm pulling up my Discord messages to my friends when I was talking about it. But like the last line is, you know, says, Dear Guest from a world I shall never know. In your eyes, I know our journey was ultimately a fiction. However, I hope your memories of this fantastical adventure. Burn is bright in your reality. I hope the promise of our world echoes in you. And with all my heart, I hope that fantasy gives you strength.

And it's like, fuck, man. like, oh, it's a very simple message, but it felt so powerful to hear someone say that. Yeah. Yeah. And the way they say, like, you truly, I feel like, feel the passion and care. I feel like this team has behind, like, their works of art and how they, so beyond what makes fiction, like, kind of successful or what makes art successful, they just want it to

connect to people so badly. and so passionately and that was something that really had an effect on me as well just I think like the ending card says like the one true seeker and then it's your name yeah yeah

I was like fuck yeah yeah you all fucking got me dog oh shit it was beautiful man so kind of relating to all of this I want to take it back to the kind of our world stuff in this book we eventually you know like we we have this fantasy book

that reflects our world very similarly even though, you know, they call it a utopia and there's all these things that we don't actually live. But like that's the, like, it feels purposeful in that way, right? Oh, yes, 100%. And I love near the end of the game, right, when we get the reveal that you're the prince. And then the other things, right,

is that Moore is actually a part of the king's consciousness. And the woman's voice that you hear throughout the game whenever someone awakens to their archetype was your mother. And so you're kind of, you're being guided the entire time by your parents, which I think is also something that hits home because you never get to have that connection with them and they're doing everything in their power to be able to guide you through that. And it's very similar to artists in a way of like they create something and hope that it can guide

and lead someone in a certain direction. And like the parents definitely feel like in weird way. Like they see them, the Atlas sees themselves as the parents of like, we're going to do as much as we can. because we can't be there for you in the moment. And you get this moment with Moore where he is trying to protect you. You're doing the whole battle with Luis. And you get through that first battle.

I'm like, oh, I beat the game. It's like, no, motherfucker. You're still got like, you still got to fight more and you got to fight Luis again. As he's connected to a big ass ship. God damn. It's a real RPG bullshit. And Moore tries to protect you

because there's that moment where he's like, no, I just, I don't want you to be, you know, fucked up from this reality. I want him to hide away. And you fucking, transport into, you know, what is it? I think it's Shibuya.

Yeah, it's like the Shibuya crossing. And you have to fight more and kind of let hit, like remind him of like we can't, no matter how powerful fiction and art can be, we can't get lost in it and just use it purely as escapism. Escapism is okay and it's good. But when we fully lose ourselves in it, the things that around us that make us want to lose ourselves in fiction, don't get better. And that old exchange between yourself

and more throughout that fight is just like that hit me like a fucking ton of bricks. It was a really, it was a clever trick. When it happened, I was like, oh yeah, of course they're going to do this, right? Yeah. And it's one of those things where in ways, metaphor is predictable, but that's to its benefit. And I appreciate that it wasn't like, for a second,

I was like, are they going to do the thing where actually like we've been inside the book the entire time? and like this is a reality and like he tries to trick you into that of like no this is the real world like come come live with me here and you have to kind of fight against that and because we were you know we had a lot of guessing of like what what are the vibes what are humans what is this book really about where is this all going to lead and i'm glad they had like the restraint to not be like all right now you're in the persona five world and that's actually a metaphor is actually like a really it's a great selling book that um very impressive that they didn't lean into that right that like that was just like a little, a little fake out slash a little like character building moment as far as, hey, like you have this choice. Like you can,

like you can, like you can go all in on the escapism, or you can actually go back into your real world and like figure the show. Make a change. Like it's also a message about like being overprotective parents too, right? It's like you have to let your kid experience the world for what it is at a certain point. You can't shelter them to that. And that's kind of what more reaches a breaking point where it's like,

hey, I'm the author of this book. I created this book. Why don't you want to just like, why don't you just want this? And it's like, please accept it. Like, you'll be free from everything else, all the bad shit in the world. It's like, no, that's not how life goes, though. Like, you can't, you can't just shelter your kids the entire time.

They have to figure the world out on their own at some point. And I think that they send the right message with that. And it almost reminds me, I don't think we, maybe we shouldn't get into Evangelian spoilers. But it does. This whole thing is very thrice upon a time. and not I mean Ava influences so many pieces of Japanese fiction of course but this is one moment aware

for like oh I'm Shinji and that's Gendo but again like a better version of Gendo because Gendo is a piece of shit through and through more is not more is has has these ideals comes from a good place but it feels

very similar to that and like the storytelling mechanisms to send that message but yeah it is it was man that was one of my favorite moments and like you said when you get the reveal that the voice guiding you was your mother yeah your mom or like more is like that voice i i i missed you and like also and the the little the little side conversation they have when more is alone in academia it's like that fuck that fucked me up man because like oh man like it's uh you know when my mom passed away last year um obviously it was devastating but i think what i realized over time

since she's been gone is that she has been motivating me in so many ways for like I'm learning to make the dishes she used to make I talk about her a lot with people and I like I empathize with people in a different way who've gone through similar things

like I just get it now and I think that with her passing I've like grown up a lot in many ways and like the things that she used to do for me the things that she used to tell me are still guiding me to this day so when I saw that metaphor I'm like they fucking get it This is like, this makes perfect sense.

Yeah. It's a really beautiful way to send that message. Do you guys have any thoughts on why his name is Moore? It's based off of Time Us More. There you go. There is a real book called Utopia that's written by the author. Oh, Real Beyond kind of feudy. What is your thought?

What is your guess? Because I was like, I was looking for more of like a symbolic like, oh, like he, like, he maybe he, it's, there's more to this. So like, I'm actually, maybe. Maybe. Yeah, I was looking for like, I was looking for the metaphor. I was looking for the metaphor. I was looking for the metaphor of the answer. We guys have a literal answer.

That's great. That's crazy, man. To, you know, we've been talking about a lot of like very big theme, heady stuff. That's been really fun. And it's, it's been great to finally kind of like let it all out and like really unload on and talking about these things. Uh, outside of just like vaguely talking about it in a review. Yeah. Um, but I want to get to some, some fun shit.

Let's talk about the deep lore of this game. because obviously, like, one of the big things with this being the former persona-led team making this game, but still being under Atlas, blessing and I at least, we're like, all right, well, how are they going to connect this back to persona? Yeah, I was so convinced. What are the connections, what are the things and all this stuff?

And we learn at some point, right, in the middle of the game when you go to the, was it the Dragon Island? Yeah. And you see the underground of this island that is like this fallen civilization that look like modern day buildings and all this stuff and it's like

oh interesting you learn once you go back to the Eldon Village you see the like history of like vaguely what happened to humanity how that transitioned into this like new world and I think they do enough cutesy things right to like they give enough for people

to have a head cannon of like oh this is post persona I think it's post SMT because it's more like apocalyptic crazy shit right. Yeah, I remember walking to, I think it was like, talking to Michael in the kitchen and being like, dude, I feel like this is persona after things went wrong. Like, the demons won.

And obviously, like, they were wearing that shit on their sleeves, too, because the protagonist just looks like the persona three protagonists. Stroll just looks like the persona four protagonist. And also, like, it's one of those. Catherine, like, all of it. It was like, okay, how are, like, we're going to loop back to this somehow? It's also one of those things where the game is so persona, it's moment to moment of, oh, man, this character reaches a big character building.

moment and then the power gets an awakening. Yeah, they get an awakening. And literally, uh, lady juna, I believe it's her power that when she fully masters it up, it's called what is it? Persona master. And I love, they had so much fun when she, because you usually call your archetype. And she would yell, persona master. It's like this pause where it's like, I know what you fuckers are doing.

They're doing all these stuff. Like obviously there's also devil summoner or demon summoner. There's devil. Devil Summer is a high level class. Soul hackers. Soul hackers was like one of the archetypes. So they're doing a lot of just like little things to give people like a fun little head canon of like how does this all connect? Yeah.

The one thing I did not have on my fucking bingo card of 2024 was that this was going to have less substantial connections to the other games and more so of a connection to Etri and Odyssey. What the absolute fuck. That was crazy. So, you know, at the end of like the, uh, uh, Ufa kind of big, uh, story arc on the island. You know, her brother, who's the Mustari chief, is like, you know, we don't have normal naming conventions

and we don't name streets. We don't name places and stuff because, you know, we don't, I forget what their philosophy was behind that, but his kind of resolve there is, you know, everybody else called this like a different name. And I don't want, where we live to be defined by other people, I want to define it. And I thought that was like a really fucking great moment.

But then he's like, you know, we worship this, uh, Dragon God, Et, and I should have seen this coming. And he was like, I'm going to name this island Etria. And I had that moment, I was like, wait a minute. The only reason I know about Etriene Odyssey is because I did Persona Ranked, and the Persona Q games are just like a rip-off of Etriian Odyssey. And I had to look up the lore of Etriian Odyssey where he, the brother says in metaphor,

he's like, I hope one day this humble village can grow into like a bustling city like on the mainland. And Etrienne Odyssey does take place in Etria. and the main city used to be a small little village and it's like seaside town. This is a metaphor is the Etrian Odyssey prequel? It's insane.

What's funny is that. Yeah, like what's funny is the most like it could be headcan and all that stuff, but that is the most clear like. Yeah. It's the most direct connection. Yeah. It's so funny because I got to that part and yeah,

he was like, we'll call it Etria. And I was like, oh man, that's interesting. It's almost like Etrian Odyssey. And I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, because I didn't realize that Atlas made Etriott's. So I was like, oh, that's a funny thing. that's almost close to Etriy and Odyssey and I didn't think about it until like I think I came into work the next morning and Barrett's like you can you see the thing and I was like well and he

was like entry an Odyssey and I was like oh shit I didn't realize that that was actually the thing so and the I don't know if this was intentional or not but when you make it to that second layer of that dungeon it's built like an Etriy and Odyssey dungeon like the way the hallways like the way they're all yeah and like the the ears the way they they their patterns are along like that's the same thing as FOEs and Etri and Odyssey yeah so like follow a path that they move when you move yes so that is a direct Etri and Odyssey mechanic that is built into that dungeon. Also fuck that dungeon. I hated that dungeon. That dungeon was so

long. That dungeon was so long and so difficult. I had to do like three runs of that. I think we can agree that was the roughest dungeon. What was your... I still enjoyed it, but it was like, oh, this is work. Yeah. What was your favorite dungeon? A good question.

The first one was a good intro, but it was like, oh, I'm going through a castle, whatever. The second one, we're going through sewers and then we fight the big ugly baby. Oh my god That thing gave me nightmares for days, man And I was like I know they revel in like these fucked up designs

That are from the garden of earthly delights A lot of references there, direct references But that baby the Oh jeez When I had to fight it the second time Because when you go to the final dungeon And you have to refight all those big bosses And I'm like I didn't want to see this

Mother fuck again No please Oh it's so disgusting I struggle to come up With like a clear favorite dungeon because the stuff that I really enjoyed were the moments that I

felt like were less like dungeony and more so set pieces. Set pieces that reminded me of like the full moon events in persona 3 where you're doing less dungeon crawling and you're doing more set up for cool things. The whole like the heist for in Luis's flying gauntlet runner like during the party

and the soire and all that stuff that was like this is fucking cool and coming up with the plan of like finding the route in and all this P5 coded. It was very P5 coded. Because there's stealth moments in there too. Yes. And it's like, oh, the stealth mechanics aren't great. But I like, I like the idea. Yeah. And like, to me, I think story wise as well, like how that all comes together.

We're like, you kind of know, you kind of consents like Juna's doing her own thing. But then like you have that moment where she's like, oh, we're on the same side. It's like, oh, shit, you're the other agent that I've totally forgot that there was one. Like, fucking 20 hours ago. Like, all of that, like, the way that comes together. And then we, you know, we join Louis, uh, we join Louis, Luis's like ranks and stuff. I think like story-wise,

like that section of the game, I thought was really, really fun because I didn't expect us to like work for Luis to try to get close to him and shit. I think my, my favorite, not necessarily my favorite dungeon,

but I think what led to one of my favorite moments in the game was the church assassination or like the opera assassination. Yeah. Like there wasn't much dungeon to it, but it felt like, oh, we're, we're gonna do this shit.

Yeah. Fuck, we have the lance. We have the plan. You're on the chandelier. We know for a fact, that he's here and the chandelier scene was fucking

nuts because Juna's performing she's singing we know what the plan is everyone's like hey we're good we're gonna do this and then there's just like this tension where the protagonist starts shaking like oh fuck something's gonna go wrong but he and there's a moment like as he's kind of like bracing himself

to do it Juna has a line and she's singing says I am thou thou art I that is one of the lines that she sings in it and I like you motherfucker I know what y'all are doing But it is a really intense moment and you fucking do it. And it's just like this spectacle. And then eventually what happens is like, oh, like there's other kinds of mechanisms. Oh, you didn't really kill them.

Then you have to like fight them on top of the roof. But it was just like this intense moment where it felt like something was going to happen like the cinematography to it, the reference to the persona reference and the way the camera work. And it just felt like all these pieces finally coming together. Of course, you know there's going to be more to the game. I'm only like 50 hours in at this point. Of course there's going to be another 50 hours. But the calendar goes.

We're in like fucking September or whatever. Yeah. And so it felt, but it felt like this turning point. And the way they framed that turning point was like, oh my God, this game's got juice, man. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I have a favorite dungeon. I like, I started scrolling through them and I was like, I don't like any of these guys. Like, I enjoyed playing through the dungeons, but none of them were like stand out to me in a way that like, I feel like P5 had some standout dungeons to me.

I do. I think like dungeons may have been like one of the weaker points of metaphor, I think. Yeah. Where they have great moments. Yeah. I think like still the, the flow. of going through the dungeon is still really fun and satisfying. And it's hard to follow up on P5 that felt like very like they're trying out very light puzzles

and like doing all these like more curated things. And I think for them to kind of go into a different genre and make another kind of more curated thing and not like a procedural like memento type of situation was maybe a little bit more of a hurdle than they may have expected. It's funny because on a gameplay level, if I had to play through P5 again or metaphor again, just like playing through the dungeon. I'm going metaphor just because I think the gameplay is fun But yeah, I think the dungeon design

And this is something that I'd love to see metaphor too, right? Like I'd love to see that maybe take a step up As far as getting a bit more creative And like getting maybe kind of wild With some of the concepts that you can do in the dungeons That said, the one that I guess hit for me on a Like a theatrical level Is getting swallowed by that sandworm

Oh yeah Even though like the gameplay of like playing through that dungeon And get to the anus Yeah like 10 minutes Is like such a great And then yeah you have 10 minutes And it's like all right I'm in and out I'm going out the shit

I guess. But like, and also, yeah, you feel a bit rushed in there. There's like a lot going on. And I don't think the actual gameplay of that dungeon was the best. I do love getting swallowed by a giant sandworm and have to like climb out of its penis.

That's what I suck. Two major beats that I want to get to, before I open it up to, uh, questions that I got on social media. Um, who's your favorite bond? Um, my God. It's a big question.

You can talk about, you know, some of the companions within the party themselves. or just like kind of all of the bonds in general. But for me, to kind of start it off just to give you all just a minute or two to think here, I think, Basilio, I think is my favorite, like, I talked about this or hinted at this, is like, Basilio is like my favorite, one of my favorite characters in fiction now. The story he goes through in the main story with Dell and, you know, you and I have talked off air about his awakening and how just fucking,

heart-wrenching that is. It's one of the best moments in the game. It's one of the best moments in the game. And the way, like, it's after Dell dies and he walks past this pole and Dell just sort of appears and he kind of is talking to his brother without talking to him. And Del being present for the awakening moment,

like, in the whole thing. And it's like... Oh, it's so beautiful, man. It's so beautiful. And it fucking hurts. But I also... I really love his specific, like, Bond Tree is.

well of him meeting back up with like an old friend who was also experimented on like back when him and Dell were you know just trying to trying to get by and him you know Dell kind of leaves him the quest of like I was the older brother

and I was the one who kind of always always led us but now you have to be that person and Basilio kind of coming into his own and figuring shit out for himself and taking charge and recognizing of like oh maybe I shouldn't have taken those drugs from my buddy

because he might have needed them more to actually get better and realizing what his buddy was doing that shit really really hit for me and so I really love Basileo and I think to the strength of the bonds that you have here I think the weakest one is the dude from the first town with the pointy ears the big dude in like the green like he's like a...

Oh the commander guy? Yeah, commander guy. It's like, uh... Barton. Yes, he's the weakest one, but his story is still so fucking good and so strong and like made me care so much about what he was going through as well. That's my thing is I have him up there just because I did like a story, right? And I like him almost being a, oh, you're kind of a failure at this.

Like, you want to be the leader of this town, but you just don't have the stuff. And it's like, you know, when you're talking about the stuff they doesn't have, it's not like he's not confident. It's not like he doesn't have like military skill or whatever, right? Like, he's a big, strong man. But guess what? You need more than being a big, strong man to actually, like, help lead and guide these people. And so to, like, kind of see through that storyline. That was interesting. I was, I was interested in it. Alonzo was one that stuck out for me.

Alonzo was very good. I like, I like, I like a bad dude. Yeah. And he's such a good bad dude with a heart of gold. He's such a good bad dude, because, like, he's the only social link, really, that's, or a follower, that's like, I can't tell, like, I feel like you're going to betray me. Like, I feel like you're up to some bad shit this whole time. Like, everybody else is somewhat. cool. You, on the other hand, like, you're a piece of shit. Yeah, you're a villain. Like, been, I've, like, in my history of playing persona, I tend to find those characters and, like, I don't fall in love with them at the end, right? Like, Persona 3 had the one dude who, uh, was the salesman, like the TV salesman. Tanaka. Tonaka. God, Tanaka sucks, dude. He sucks until the end. Like, yeah. Like, he consistently sucks. He, I still hate him to this

thing. Like, I think the last thing I did in Persona 3 reload is finished Tanaka's social link. terrible thing that end. And I was like, you need to just beat that game. Get that. I know. I didn't get that bad taste on my mouth. But like, I was looking forward to, to homie being that, right? To Alonso being that. And like, Alonso toward the end, like, the shifts in his narrative, like the fact that like, God, when he loses like his, he loses his village, I believe, right? Like, he gets shit burnt down. And he is distraught and upset. And like, you know, after that, he's like willing, to sacrifice himself or I kill himself

straight up Yeah Yeah Rank 5 He's like I'm gonna kill myself Yeah Oh please don't kill yourself Like there's so much going on

There's a cool restaurant just open Like Yeah He's like all right I guess I won't Yeah but then like you know Later on he then sacrifices itself But then turns out didn't

Like he has such a good back and forth And I love his whole character Being about Deceit and like Yeah being a trickster He's a trickster And it's funny because Toward the end I was tricked

Toward the end I was like Damn he's really He's really dead Like, I really believe that he was done. And it fucked me up for a while. And then you finally get that moment where it's like, oh, thank God. Yeah. He leaves you like a really sweet note, too, at the end.

And like the guy that was supposed to be his, like, his adversary, whatever, ends up being like, hey, like, you know, I'm O'Keeber Wilbur Wilbur Wivichu. Alonzo left this behind. He wanted you to hear this message. And I was like, oh, that's really nice. But I was like, this is only rank nine. What could possibly be rank 10? Yeah.

Yeah. I do love. and like I was Jesse Vitale and I were going back and forth a lot throughout the review period for this and we were both like we need to see it

what's the race that Alonso and Lady Juna are like the pretty eyes the big eyeballs but they've got the baby form which is like such a big reveal in Junas and it's so weird it's so weird

but at one point I hit up Jesse I was like I need to see Alonzo in his weird baby form or this game's a zero out of 10 and like we get to the end of his Bond and they don't do it and I'm like all right cool and then it's funny that in the year later epilogue he's like oh you want to see my baby for him no and I was like god damn they knew what I wanted and they called me out for it yeah but also shout out to

Maria too as a as a social as a bond right as a follower like best childhood uh yeah yeah yeah you know what yeah because I've had those in persona 2 where I do not care about the kids I'm sorry kid at persona 5 that's at the arcade all the time like I do you You know, I'm sorry you kid at the shrine and persona three reload. Hey, no, you don't talk shit about her. I still haven't gotten through her thing though.

Yeah. Her parents are a piece of shit. No, but I still care about her. Like, yeah, when Maria is like having trouble like, you know, getting along with these kids and I have to like tell the kids like, hey, like, be cool or whatever. Like, you know, it's, I, I find

when you're able to nail that kind of bond between like almost like an older brother, younger sister or almost like a parental kind of like bond situation going on. Like, it's really cool to, be able to try and mentor or try and like help a kid right and like build a bond for this kid that's going to be healthy for them as they come up as they're going through this like you know coming of age uh type scenarios and so for me that one was success that one i really enjoyed and i loved also that like you know i get to go on these trips and then bring back these uh postcards essentially yeah postcards yeah oh yes yeah and those are the moments and i've said this before like getting the little moments where you're on the gauntlet runner and um you're who's the pilot um blanking on his name Oh man, my guy with a drip. Yeah.

You know here in Gucci flip falls. Nouris. Nures. He'll be like, hey, we gotta stop. There's something fucking coolest shit outside. And you get like these soft, like beautiful piano songs in the background that like very much hint back to like persona three and persona five

in certain moments. And like I still have like my desktop is like the one on the ocean and looking at the sunset. Some very beautiful art. It's so beautiful. And like being able to, to like send those to her and like have her kind of like

like hey I've been traveling the world look at what else and I love that she joins at the very end where you're like ah fuck we're getting kind of like we're just to get back out there and then she actually gets to go on the journey at the end I was like fuck yes that's awesome I'm what about you yeah um man I got I got a lot I think the reason why so many of the followers hit is though they do this

in all the personas is where it's like your social links are vessels for you to understand different themes about the game And so, like, the thing for Maria is, like, you know, treating people who are different from you, you should be, you should be accepting of everyone and kind of roping in Fabien to, like, have this like soup kitchen moment where just like, hey, we're going to like, we're going to help poor kids get fed and all that. And it's like, okay, cool. They're sending the right message. We're getting her, Marie involved in understanding why these things are important. Because there's also this other kid like in that social link, that whole arc where it's like, hey, this poor kid who's dirty and everyone like treats him like shit. And then Maria's like, well, why don't. they treat him like that? Like he just needs a bath or whatever. I'm sure he's a fine person, whatever. And it's like, well, yes, she gets it.

She gets it. And it's like, well, let's work to make sure you understand why something like this could happen. So they take that extra step to like not just say the right thing, but like show you how people can get to that point. How you can understand that. And another one I think is really important too is UFAs because Ufas has to do with religious extremism. Yes. And like that's the whole thing about like Mustari are treated differently because they are of a different religion. And when they go out into the world, they have to wear the masks and all that.

And so, like, yeah, there's like this poor mom and this poor kid. Or, yeah, they're Ujeef also. So you see the, like, this, this pastor whatever. How lesser tribes kind of can go at each other because of religious indoctrination. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, and so, like, embedded in that is like this idea that the church, the, the sanctist church are always, like, doing the right thing, whatever. And then so these, these poor Ujeef are. are being taken care of.

And then now they're led to believe like the sanctus church is absolute, right? Or they're on the verge of that. And like the poor kid is like asking Yufa, you know, like, why would you, why would you go against the church? Well, like they've done all this for me. It's like, you kind of don't really understand like how they're exploiting you and all this shit. So like Yufa's whole arc is about, you know, tackles that, that part of the religious themes of this game. So I think that was really important. and shit

there's a bunch there's a bunch of other ones too that they're also good that really hit the one I will say about katharina where her whole thing is about eating the rich yeah it does fall apart in some sense because I think by the end she kind of let like let's go of that idea

and it's like there's more nuance to that that whole concept than that idea but I think she just like lets it go entirely to the point where I'm like oh they didn't really they didn't know where they wanted to land this one And I was like, oh, I kind of fell through because I love her as a character. I just liked her as a character.

I love her as a boy. She had ended with her actually eating a British person. Yeah. You're like, you're like, oh, it's an arm. She's like, wait, what do you mean? Y'all said. But yeah, it's all of these followers feel like they serve a very distinct purpose. Rather than, because I think getting away from the arcana system helps a lot.

Because at a certain point in personas, it felt like we need to just put social links in here to cover all of the different archana. Whether they are good or not, we just need something, right? here they're divorced themselves of that and they can just like we're just going to have this many followers and they're all going to serve this purpose it doesn't have to be anything more than that and having them up to rank 8 too lets those storylines kind of be a little bit more purposeful in each rank

brigita is great too because like that's the whole thing about hey I sell weapons I don't want to sell weapons but this is my business and then like you go through this whole arc but hey but you're like you're part of the problem and she kind of comes out realization herself and then kind of goes through this whole thing about like you know what in the future. I'm going to try and push selling... What can this technology be used for something...

Precisely. Yeah. Yeah. So again, that's another theme that this game is trying to hit that... And they use the follower system to be... And it's such an effective way to, like, hey, maybe we can't hit on this directly in the main story. So, but at least you'll see what we have to say about this particular societal problem

through your followers. But yeah, like, and the last thing I want to say about Basilio's Awakening, like, that is... the thing about that is oh my god uh haismaze's shit oh that made me that was the first of my time high smay's story was like when i like i was

into the story so far like i was a long for the ride but when we've started actually getting to the heismay's story i was like okay no this game's got the fucking sauce like they're doing shit they're gonna hit me and they did it's like oh he's just holding the urn of his son's ashes and he's just a little guy oh he's me so precious and then he's wearing the bones like at the end that's that's such a beautiful and like when you're

it's so funny because you sit with him on the Gotland Runner and you just watch him like drink sake the whole time and he's like oh one day well you can have a drink too and then but you have this conversation where he's like from here and out I'm gonna dedicate my life to my son and also

you because you you are my son too and it's like fuck dog like oh and it's like I'll fucking die for him man He's my boy he's best dad of the year honestly I didn't think that they would be able to top Sogero and they somehow did.

It's crazy. It's fucking crazy. Relating to this, Mr. Hawks gave us a question on Blue Sky asking, do you think the lack of needing to grind out social links hurts the way you connected with some characters? I would say no. I actually honestly thinks it helps focus

mechanically on the story and their arcs. I feel like in persona when you're like trying to figure out how many points you need, friendship points you need to unlock the next level. You start thinking more of the game as a game and less so of like what that story is actually supposed to be about. And actually like, I think because they were able to more so get that grindy stuff out of the way

and make you truly pay attention to these stories. Yeah, focus on what's important. I think it actually helped, I think, connect to the characters more. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, they still have like the stat points to. It's like, oh, you need like level four tolerance, like level four tolerance to initiate this conversation. But at least the game can tells you how many points you're gaining towards that.

instead of like hiding it behind some kind of mathematical equation. So, yeah, the metaphor is very good about just like showing you things, taking the mystery out and just be like, hey, this is what it is what you have to do. And it's a lot more efficient because of that. Yeah. As we're winding down here, I'm looking towards some questions we got on blue sky. Vince Patel asked, and this is an interesting one, because I feel like this is a big topic of a conversation. How do you feel about the heavily implied relationship between UFA and the protagonist?

I personally adore Ufa, but as this movie, away from the confidant romance systems of the persona games, I'm interested to hear your thoughts and a lot of questions that I got when I put this out there was about the lack of like the relationship sim of this game. I personally adore it.

It's so much better. It's so much better. I think it's fun to have games that do the whole romance thing of like, who do you want your character to end up with and all that stuff? I personally love the implication of it being UFO specifically because very much they have the vibe

of like having a younger sibling and seeing them with their friends and they're like mostly cool but then they have an awkward moment where you look at them and you think they're gonna be such a cute couple one day and that is very much the vibe I get between like the prince and Yufa especially with like Yufa's older brother who

kind of picks up on like a vibe like when you're doing your last goodbyes near the end of the game. I'll fuck you up. Yeah, I'll fuck you up if you break your heart essentially. And you're a good guy but I'll fuck you up. It's like so good. And like the handshake and all that stuff. I personally adore it and I'm glad they, they didn't like do a thing where it's like, yes, it's definitely hurt, but they do enough where it's like it almost was like they wanted it to

happen, but they're just, you know, they're just, it feels very natural. Yes. In that sense. Yeah. I think that's where kind of the persona romance stuff kind of falls apart is because there's a disconnect between who you want to romance through the social links and like what actually happens in the main story. Yeah. So I think I think it'd be really weird if you were able to romance Holkenberg in this, you know, uh, yeah. It's, uh, so it just doesn't work for what metaphor is. You know, uh, so it's, it just doesn't work for what metaphor is about. And it makes more sense in persona where it's like

oh high school of course like oh there's gonna be like puppy love and yeah and of course like you're making these connections and then context

of persona makes more sense and I think three is persona three is kind of where it makes the most sense for how I played it because I romance Ucarri because like okay main character in Ucarri

seem like they would be the right choice and when you play the answer like that makes even more sense I'm like oh this actually all worked out but if you're around to anyone else like that can fall apart yeah

But for metaphor, it's like, hey, we're not going to deal with that bullshit because we're trying to do so many other things that kind of matter more for what this story is. So I'm like, y'all have made the right choice by not putting a romance. I think if they did it for this game, then it would feel a bit forced, right? Like, I think persona is somewhat of a, and you can correct me, right? I would say it's probably somewhat of a descendant of a game like Toki-Mecke Memorial, which is like dating sim in a school, right? Like, it is when you went to the earlier question about the social stats, right? Like I feel like that stuff is way more at home at a game that takes place in a school, right? That takes place in the modern day, you're attending class.

You have these cute classmates that you want to talk to and get the relationship up. And like there's a bit more mystery in that. I think in that context, I do like the idea of, oh, man, I'm, you know, pushing the needle on this, like, to, like, you know, get closer to this person. But I can't tell how close I am, but I want to romance them. But in, like, there's an element of romance sim to that, right? I think that's the purpose of that. metaphor refantasio does not have like the elements of a romance sim it has like the structures of a persona but i think they're taking that and trying to make it fit into a political fantasy RPG and i think with that you have to cut some of the fat right you have to cut off some of the things that you know maybe if persona is this descendant of a toky macumorio memorial type of game metaphor for it not being that like hey how do we push this away from being what persona is that way persona can still still exist as persona yeah be it distinct properties elsewhere.

Yeah. So yeah. I think it's one of the best, one of the smartest moves they did for this game. 100%. Simon Cardi asks. Oh, Cardi. Which human would you want to kiss the most?

I'd go for this one right on the egg. And it's the first human that you fight after you fight the, it's like the big egg one where you break open and there's all the little frogs inside. I mean like, does Louise count? Because I feel like that's my only answer. Yeah, I was going to be like, I don't know, man, the elder. But even Louise, when he turns into a human looks fucked up.

It's crazy. But then I guess. can still imagine like, but he was hot. I like the ear soldiers. Little ears hopping, like the big ears hopping around. Give a little sweet.

Those guys? That's crazy. I mean, give a lot of ears. What choice do we got? Yeah, it's between that and the egg. Oh my God.

Oh, shit. Simon Cardi, you fucking sicko. God. Well, it was either this question or he was going to ask us what our favorite shape was.

And then my last question that I'm going to pull from here is from the nerd who asks, do you think the game needs a royal version? Ooh, I'm of them, like I say, I was talking about this, I think, during the review, maybe during a metaphor versus persona conversation, that I want a royal version, quote unquote,

just so they can voice the social links. That's really all I want. That was something we definitely got spoiled with Persona 3 reload for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All those interactions were voiced. Yeah, that is. That's like the only thing, though. Like, you could not add a character,

I think the game's still perfect. You could add another character. I think that could still just be an update of like eventually maybe down the line of like getting all of that voice acted. That'd be sick. Because I think Atlas has been on the record of like we're, they're going away from doing the whole like persona five and then a persona five royal. They're like trying to focus a bit more on like DLC stuff. We'll see how that actually works out if they actually stick with it. But at least from my understanding, it sounds like we probably won't get a royal version of metaphor.

The only reason I would want it. and someone else wrote in with this, a couple people wrote in with this, is the, I personally think the weakest part of the main game, and it's because there's a lot of plot being thrown at you, is the whole Mage Academy with Juna's older sister. Like, that's part of the twist that she was actually the one

who, like, made the curse and, like, put the prince in the coma and all this stuff. And that section of the game feels so much like they wanted to put another dungeon in there, but they either didn't have the time or budget or, like just wherewithal to come up with like

another dungeon to put there because it feels like so much is being thrown at you in the span of like three hours that I think if all of that was relegated over another seven hours while you're going

through a dungeon and hitting specific beats I think that stuff would have flowed way better because it was a lot of like holy shit like it's interesting drama but like I feel like

we're going back and forth in so many moments and Rella is such an interesting character who was like on the cusp of being one of the great characters but uh like all of that happened very fast where she's like ha ha actually it was me all along um and then you realize and i'm gonna help you at the end and you have that flashback where it's like well rela was like coerced into doing that and then so there's i feel like that is one area there is it's a whole ass dungeon arc that's given to you and they could create like an like a much better dungeon there like

yeah that'd be cool done make the major academy look fucking sick yeah um because yeah you go there you fight and then you have to move on to the next thing like okay that's where i feel like there might have been a gap. Because otherwise, this feels like their most complete game right off the bat.

I felt like the original P5 was a little rushed towards the end, even though that game was long as fuck. Yeah. I feel like things

got resolved a little too easily towards the end. Still left of course. P3, obviously, the original PS2 release had and the portable had a lot of,

a lot of issues and then reload, kind of like, solved a lot of that stuff. And then P4G coming out on Vita, being the Vita system seller,

of course, we would do that. But I don't know, I don't think metaphor would, like a new metaphor would kind of push the needle in any way, but I do think like for us who love metaphor very deeply, that was like, when everyone like being nerds like, what about the Mange Academy? You know what I'm saying? If you can do it a whole other story out of that, hell yeah, I'm buying that shit again. Hell yeah. What do you call it? Metaphoro Fantasio. Royal would be great for it. It would be great. It's, that's why I was

thinking re-metaphor re-phatiochastasy. Hell yeah. That'd be actually pretty good. I like that. Yeah, Royal is actually perfect. Damn. I was going to say something like, you know, page flip or like metaphor refantasio the next page. The Snyder cut, the, the hashy-up. Fiction realized. All right, well, I think we're coming up pretty much on the end of it here before we close out. Anything else, one last thing that you want to shout out that really stood out to you,

that you want to get off your chest when it comes to the spoiling the story of metaphor refentazio. Um, I guess, uh, I'll give you a moment to think bless. Thank you. I, um, so I guess when I finish this game and I, like I had mentioned the final message that this game gives you about like, you know, carrying on and letting this piece of fiction be strength. Let, let, let fantasy be strength in your life. Um, I felt this tremendous weight off my shoulders. Uh, this year has been really, really tough for me. Uh, I think it's been one of the worst years in my life, uh, personally in, in many ways. Like, I'm having a great time doing things like this and, uh, finding success in other. ways, but I think, like, I've had a very tumultuous time in my personal life. And it's been very hard to enjoy things because of that. And so many parts of my life have been affected by, you know, the various things that have happened to me.

But I think finishing metaphor was one of the first moments in recent days where I felt like this weight, I felt like a weight off of me. Like, the world looks so much bigger. metaphor reminded me that there is such a big world out there that you can affect that you can get involved in there's so much more to life because I think the deeper and deeper that I fell into the pit of my personal life I was and I still I'm still working on this where I was just consumed by my personal life I had fell fell into like the deepest like a very deep depression and I you know I had a lot of that came with a lot of problems that affect affected my professional life, affected my interactions with other people around me. And I was consumed in a way that was very, that people have told me was very uncharacteristic of me. And I'm like, what the fuck is happening to me? Why can't I be back to who I used to be? And I'm still working on that. But when I finished metaphor, I'm like, huh, like, there's so much

more out there. There is a bigger world. And you know, it's not going to solve my problems, but like not only is it sending this message about the power of fiction that I've always believed in, but it also gave me perspective that I can now take moving forward. And I try to remind myself that the message of metaphor being like, hey, look out to the world, there's so much more out there, be part of this world to and take a one step at a time. Yeah, yeah. And that was like, that was one of the reasons why I was just like so touched by the game's message at the end is because for the first, like, I've been in therapy for a very long time.

And that's been very helpful. And then so I talked to my therapist, a lot about metaphor. Post embargo, you know, Atlas, I just don't hit up my, my therapist and ask any questions of whether or I broke embargo on that.

But yeah, it, like these are key pieces of fiction that can give you perspective, even if it's not necessarily like the political message, but the journey and, you know, seeing another world and then applying that to your own world and looking at things differently.

The same way persona five helped me forge friendships and connect with my family in new ways, metaphor gives me a new perspective on the rest of the world, even if like, oh, I'm very confident in my politics. I've been very politically active, too. So, like, that part of metaphor was like, okay, cool, that was good. I enjoyed that.

It made sense, and they said the right things. But even after that, the broader message about having a broader perspective and embracing the bigger world out there was like, fuck and I almost forgot about that yeah and you reminded me that there is so much more out there and I will always remember that oh yeah blessing you want to follow that up at all

I got nothing I'll listen to Michael so I forgot to think yeah hi I am does a very good job of making me tear up on content because he he fucking knows how to hit things home and talk about very deep and important themes in video games especially Atlas games which you know we could do for hours and hours and hours but I'm going to cut us off here because we've already been here for a while. Thank you all so much for joining us for another kind of funny games cast today.

Spoiling metaphor, re-fantazio. If you're listening to this months and months later, you've finally beaten the game. We always like to do like, send us a little message just so we know that like, you know, people are still coming back and listening to this. You can find me on blue sky at sad boy Barrett. And I want you to send me the message. Greg likes oranges. And so I'll know. also I'll know that you listened to this spoiler cast. You're going to forget and you're going to be like, what do you will keep messaging? Why do you keep sending me Greg likes oranges?

100%. Thank you all so much for joining us. After this is a live kind of funny podcast that will be taking place of the gameplay stream today. It's going to be a Thanksgiving feast with a blessing Joey, Mike, and Nick. That's going to be a fun time. Random group of people.

To wrap up the week, remember that for the rest of the week. week starting tomorrow. We're off for Thanksgiving here in the U.S. But until next time, it's been our pleasure to serve you. Peace. We did it. We did it. We did it.