Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Predicting The Next Generation of Games w/ Jason Schreier - Kinda Funny Gamescast Ep. 214

Episode Date: March 25, 2019

Start your trial month of Hims for $5 at http://forhims.com/kinda Robinhood is giving listeners a free stock at http://greggy.robinhood.com Kotaku's Jason Schreier joins us to discuss all the GDC craziness, and what it means for the next generation of video games. Time Stamps - 00:00:06 - Start 00:06:43 - Baba Is You 00:10:02 - Cross Code 00:12:12 - Devil May Cry 5 00:16:18 - Cuphead on Switch 00:26:00 - Bloodroots 00:28:12 - Neo Cab 00:32:18 - Swim Sanity 00:34:54 - Creature in the Well 00:41:38 - Katana Zero (April 18) 00:47:46 - My Friend Pedro 00:50:16 - Oculus Quest 00:57:16 - World War Z 01:01:39 - Sponsor - Robinhood 01:02:42 - Sponsor - Hims 01:03:59 - Predicting the Next-Generation of Video Games Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up guys? Welcome to the first ever episode 214. The Kind of Funny Games cast as always. I'm Tim Getty. He's joined by one of the coolest dudes in video games. Greg Miller. Hi. There he is. And you can find him streaming on Twitch.tv slash FM3 underscore the best hair in the business, Fran Mirabella. What's up best friends? Andrea is off doing GDC stuff so we decided we gotta get the best special guest we could. The man whose name we say more than any other human being in the entire world. Cotaku's Jason Shrya. You guys have a crush. You bring all the news. You know what I mean?

Our entire business is talking about you. I like you guys too. We can maybe set up a date or something. Oh sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the amount of times you fuck up a kind of funny games daily because it's like, all right,

until next time, better pleasure to serve you. That's when you publish your article. God damn it. That's what I do? I'm like, what time do you guys record? One Eastern? Yeah.

Yeah, I'm like 2 p.m. That's the sweet spot. That's the sweet spot. That's what I do. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Kind of Funny Games cast each and every week right here on YouTube.com slash Kind of Funny Games we get together, talk about video games, all the things that we love about them. Patreon supporters at the Silver Membership or above get to watch the show live as we record it as well as getting the show three days early and getting the full exclusive pre and post shows.

Or you can watch on Mondays for free on YouTube.com slash Kind of Funny Games and Roosterteeth.com or you can listen on your favorite podcast service. Just search for Kind of Funny Gamescast. This episode is brought to you by Robin Hood and Hymns, but we'll talk about that later. For now, I want to talk about some video games, man. I would love to talk about some video games. Tim, please get up and vacate your seat. You can come behind me and rub my shoulders if you want. What's happening?

Adam, can we borrow you for the set, please? Come here and take the Tim's seat. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the stage. Adam Nickerson. Oh, look at this. Nickerson himself. Sit on down there. Don't be afraid of that, Mike.

I mean, it's a pleasure to meet you in person. You gotta get close. We haven't actually, yeah, you have to be close to the microphone. Yeah, we mainly have talked on the Twitter. Yes. You're a little boy from where? Vancouver. Vancouver, they say.

Vancouver, because if I tell you where, no one knows. Good enough, I understand Canada, the Great White North. Yeah, exactly. A mysterious place. You sprung to kind of funny fame when you made a little game called Ding Dong X-L. Yeah, apparently. Jared Petty brought it up on this show. Yeah.

Then we forced everyone to buy it. I heard it was the highest selling Apple game all year. Well, if that was the case. It's uncorroborated. I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. He's got an entourage. I think it's all limo out of it.

I'm pretty sure. Thank you for making this game. Thank you for putting kind of funny faces in it. Oh, thank you guys for playing it and kind of obsessing about it. Yeah. And all the innuendo about it. Because I'll be honest when I. said, when I made up the stupid names for my game,

sure. I for some reason didn't at all consider that. I don't know how that happened. You make ding-dong Excel. I don't know how that happened, but man, did you guys let me know? Hey, man, that's what it's about, all right? This is what must have happened with Google. They were like Google Stadium.

Nobody told them, and it sounds like a sugar substitute. Yeah. You guys were handing out, like, condoms at GADC, right? That was Dingco Excel promo, right? No, but now that's a brilliant idea. Okay, next. I'm available for marketing, consulting. Jason, have you played Ding Dong Excel? I have not.

Give a try here to this little one. And now the great thing about Adam is that he's making these games to learn how to make games, correct? Yes. So you make all these little mini games you've been putting out and just having a great time with it. Pretty much, I was doing IT work and started doing this in my spare time, and I guess people like them. It's like Frogger, right? How many times you can get back forth without getting squished? Also, I can't remember.

I think it was Fran who coined it. the, was it, avoid them up, or avoid in this game, on one of the discussions, and so I added that as a tag on Steam now. Nice, look at that. It might have been game scoop, too,

because I know Jared's been over there talking about it a lot too. You're blowing up, you're a huge deal. It's a very bizarre thing, especially after watching you guys every day, and like, it's a very strange thing to all of a sudden someone tweet me, someone tweet me,

and be like, wait, I'm sorry, did Greg Miller just tweet me about my game? Yeah, yeah. But that's how it goes. So what, you brought a bunch of T-shirts? What did you bring us? Yeah, I figured you guys would maybe want a T-shirt. Yes.

You were begging for one if I remember. I'm not afraid. I'm not above it. Yeah, I'm not above it. When I find out there's a ding-dong Excel shirt, you know I want ding-dong Excel. There's a variety of sizes. Okay, great, great, great.

And who needs what kind of size? Do you have Excel? There's plenty of, there is X-Sel. I see me. There's larges. Oh and There's this here too. That's a Nintendo Switch. Oh, wait a second. That's weird. Did you do it? Because this was the one request I had of you when you made this game and I found out it was amazing. Oh, that's strange. Is? Hmm. Let's find out.

Oops. Show it to the camera. Look it. There it is. Can we see it? Is it happening? Well, now you gotta sink the controllers. Because it's just turning on everything. I'm new to this. Are you? Did you buy the Swiss just to make your game for it? There it is! It's happening! Holy cow! Ding-dong Excel is coming to the Nintendo Switch. And I'm supposed to say, you're welcome from Kirk,

who unfortunately couldn't be here today. Sure. But... Dude, congrats, that's awesome. Just so you guys know, there's a couple other little... You put Portillo's face in it? I don't know, maybe. Yeah, I just saw it! I just saw it!

A couple other things coming. I'm just gonna scroll through them for the people that are watching. Really fast. and then if you figure it out, you know. Okay. And it's coming very soon. Very soon. Very soon.

You'll be the first to know. Okay, good. And we'll tell you guys. You can tell. Because this is an exclusive announcement right now. Yes. No one else knows. You want to get your computer to write this up?

This is basically the work you do. Breaking the most important stories in gaming. Adam, congratulations for coming to switch. Thank you very much for having me on. I'm happy to be here. Awesome. All right. Now get out.

Thanks. Thank you. We got so much. many GDC games to talk about. Everyone out there, because they've all been great. They made it happen. That's awesome. Congrats, man. That's my platform.

Let me take a photo of it. But yeah, now we can talk about these other games. That is so much fun. Jason, I want to start with you. Baba is you. Baba is you. So this is not a GDC game. This is a game that came out

I think a few days before GDC started. And it is, I don't even know how to describe it. It's a puzzle game where you move these words around and your goal is to get something is win and then step on that object. And it's just this mind-bending, delightful logic game where you were like trying to find ways to manipulate all these different words and make them say things. So if I say Baba is a tree, then Baba, my main character will turn into a tree. If I say flag is you, then I will be playing as a flag because you is whoever the player is playing as. And it's, you guys all have to watch a trailer and check it out because it's incredible.

Do you type the words in or do you select? No, no, no. So you'll see them. So it's like a 2D moving block puzzle thing. So you're moving around all of these words. And you have to find the ways that they connect to in order to solve each level. And the levels are just like, they get so friggin hard and mind blending.

Yeah, it's really good. It's totally worth playing. I played it for a large part of the flight here. It's really cool. Awesome. Yeah. See, so, okay, so yeah. So, like right there, you would need to get

to something. Kevin, can you show the honest? So it's got an overall map here. It's huge. There's so many of these puzzles. And then sometimes what they do is you'll figure one out. And then the next one will be, or the challenge one will be like the same stage, except it's missing one key piece. And you have to figure out another way to do it.

Really cool game. So is Baba, the sheep? Baba is the sheep. There are other characters too. Didn't even get it. This guy sharp as a tap. So now if you move the is pushed to the lava, you can push the lava over. and then you can get to the flat.

Let's see how long it takes a giant bomb to pull this off. Those clowns? That's probably retired video. You can't figure it out. No, he got it. So, yeah, so it's super clever because all of these words just have different, different, no, that's not. All these words just have different properties,

and you can do all this cool stuff. And, yeah, a really, really good game. So you're trying to put short sentences together to make the world react. But it gets more and more complicated because soon you'll get, and has, lava is push. Yeah, so now you push it over. Which gives him the power.

Right then. Yeah, so it makes lava pushable. It's like each, each of the verbs are describing the state, like the rules. It's a game about rules, right? So you're saying lava, lava is push. That means lava is pushable. So really cool stuff. Huh.

That's really neat. Now for somebody stupid like myself, how quick am I going to get stumped? Pretty quick. Yeah. Okay. I got stuck. That's so hard. It's really hard.

You'll make best a start menu. Yeah. by Star Time. I don't know. How? It's the type of thing where you have to have a brain for like those logic puzzles that you do. It's very, very much all about logic. And like breaking, finding ways to break the rules. It's super cool. Highly recommend.

And it's on Switch. That's how I played on the way. Oh, well, there you go. So the game winner. Menzis. All-Stars. Yeah. You were like, Mensis. You're like, that can't be right.

That's, same Menz's students? Yeah, that's not really a thing. Well, that's bloodborne. Mensis students is the, yeah. That's the Academy. Loveborn. All right. Maybe that's where I got that.

That is where you got it. And then the next game you want to talk about was Crosscode. Yeah. So Crosscode is another. I'm just shouting out little known games. I've raved about Crosscode a bunch on Cachaku and on Twitter. But Crosscode is this game that's like, do you want to pull up like a little bit of Yeah.

Yeah. It's a game that's like it looks like a Super Nintendo game. It's that old school style. And it's kind of Zelda E and it's a top down action adventure type thing. But the twist is that it's all set within a fictional MMO. So you play as this character within the MMO. And as you're going around, you meet other people who are also characters in the MMO

and they have real lives behind their characters. So all this stuff is within the MMO itself. So I'm playing the game here. This is I'm playing the inside the MMO. Yeah, and so your character is this avatar they're called who is an amnesiac and true JRP style. Sure, of course. So you're part of the story is like figuring out who she is and what her story is.

Cross code. It's incredible. It's so good. It feels like an R-type. And then so the other angle of this is that there are a bunch of dungeons that are like Zelda-style dungeons with puzzle-solving and like you get a new ability in each of the dungeons and use that to solve puzzles. It's incredibly good. This game is coming to Switch, not on Switch yet, but I played it a bunch on PC. Really, really good game.

And yeah, as you're walking around this world, you see other players like running around as characters. And like a lot of the quests are just this MMO style stuff. There's other online players. It's not actually online. It's within the world of the game. Oh. This is the MMO. So, like, that is an avatar, but she has a real personality outside of the game.

And so at the end of, like, at different story beats, she'll be like, all right, I'm going to log off now. I have to go do schoolwork or something like that. And that's part of the story is that these are all people in real life who are playing as avatars in the game. It is really good. So from what we just saw, action, right? Yeah. Okay, okay. And the mechanics feel really good.

Very Zelda, like, very SNES, like, that precise, like, very smooth feel of swinging, swinging your blade and shooting. you can shoot like orb things, bullets basically. That's awesome. That's really neat. So those two highly recommend them both. Those are my two latest obsession. Do we know when it's coming to switch? Yeah, no, they just said this year.

Gotcha. Probably E3 or something like that. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, there you go. Fran, yeah. Devil May Cry 5. You wanted to talk about it a couple weeks ago, but you didn't get a chance to.

I got to play some. I don't think we should spend too much time. It is a great game. You were right. It is like what you would expect Devil May Cry to be. I think the only point I wanted to bring up, if you haven't checked it out yet. I mean, it's just so devil may cry still. You do spend some time wandering around a bit, I would say.

But what they did with the characters, the multiple characters is what impressed me the most. There's so many combos and skills to learn and so much style to the game. So, like, I mean, I agree. The game is awesome. What I didn't quite catch those. There's still that, like, it's not slow, but I still, I don't love the in-between. I know they got to figure out, but, like, just the way the camera works and wandering around, looking inside.

How far do you get in? Oh, about, I don't know. I feel like it was about eight hours in. So I only unlocked V or something like that. Whenever you unlock V, is it V? Yeah, yeah. So I didn't unlock Dante yet. Okay, there's no way you're eight hours in.

Maybe it was like five hours. Maybe it was five. Yeah. Well, for me, though, I play stuff pretty. Oh, yeah, that's right. Because I did happen to pop into your stream for a second, Fred. And I always consider, like, saying something, I'm like, I'm not going to distract him and slow him down even more because I know how you'll get.

Because I see him. And he realizes that he needs like a thousand more red or some shit to like To fight this boss or whatever. Yeah. And he's like, oh, and he realized that if he died. You can just keep teasing it. You can cheese it and just keep going. And Fran does the Fran think of like, guys, I don't know. Should I just keep killing myself in farm this or should I just fight the boss?

I don't want to cheese it. But maybe I should cheese it. I'm like, just fucking make a decision. I need to try this stressing me out. Try fucking play in the division with him. I'm saying there, Heming and Hall over guns, Andrew Renee is like, Fran, let's do a mission. That boss was awesome, though.

And, yeah, like the boss set pieces are incredible. Do you plan to keep playing through it? I do, but right now, I don't know when I'll have time. I know we're going to talk more about divisions. These grindy games, man, that's what I'm reflecting on as you talk about all these other games. Like, how do you find time for all this other stuff? I'm always so stressed about playing the games that I play, which right now are, I still want to get back to Anthem.

I play division two now. I'm playing Destiny. And there's so much more to play. I really like that. You only want one, like, live service game, like go-to game. You only want one. Like, otherwise, you're, like, my, for me, it's destiny. I can't even, like, I might mess around a little bit of the Division 2.

And Anthem, I messed around with, but I'm only going to stick to it. I'm screwed. To Destiny. I've picked three. That's the trick. That's your life now. You just want to spin those plates nonstop. Apparently.

I just need to start streaming all day and just go for it. That's true. God only knows what you do the rest of the time. Nobody knows. Is there any additional content coming for Devil Make Cry 5? Do you remember? Yeah, the bloody. Palace, I think is what it's called, is coming.

And yeah, it's kind of just, that's where it's like the time attacky type stuff, the arcade style, like gameplay where it's just like you can just use all the weapons that you have for the whole game. And it's like really about the stylish combos and being cool as hell. Yeah. It's cool, man. The style is so cool. And again, what they've done with the different characters and how different it feels.

Like, it's just, it's awesome. So you got to like, when you have the time, I recommend going back. Because like, once you get to Dante, I really feel that's when it like. comes together and it's like it's the reward for the rest of the game which not in a lot of cases saying that means that like it's not fun until then that this is not that it all adds

on top of each other that when you get that all of a sudden you're like I'm OPE as hell and this is great and that's fair too like games just do that a lot I remember going back to Zelda's dating all the way back to Ocarina of Time and like I always felt like the first freaking 13 hours I was just like I know how to play Zelda

you try to teach me how to play Zelda and I just want to get to the good stuff but they kind of make you get a customer Wild is the best game ever. Oh, yeah. Wild they did the unthinkable. It just dropped you in. And I was like, this is what I've been waiting for as a fan.

I understand how to play these games. But anyway, to be fair to Double My Cry 5. Of course it's going to be probably, what, a little slower up front. It's not really slow. It's super fast. But meaning I don't love the sort of jumping around in that old school kind of feel, you know, and searching for stuff. Like, it's all right, but it's kind of wanting to get on with it.

So I'm looking forward to getting to it later. So now getting to the Nindies that we played. I want to start off. Start up with a big one. Okay. Cuphead. There it is. Cuphead's coming to Switch, baby.

Unbelievable. I just like, I can't believe that this is real life. And more than that, I can't believe that I already have a copy of it that I was able to play. And I'm halfway through the game. And it is freaking fantastic. And it's on Switch. And I love it. And it's perfect.

It's 60 frames per second. It is like, it feels as at home on the Switch as you'd imagine. Whenever everyone saw a Cuphead for the first time, they were blown away by the graphics style. just like how unique it looked and how just like it's seen a very other level it looks compared to to other games of its type and then the second that was like once we knew about the switch it's like this is would be so great in the switch but it'll never actually happen and I've been playing just on the switch with the joycons which is definitely not the ideal way to play a game like this

but it's still super fun super works and I was totally like I'm only going to play a couple bosses and then stop and I got hooked And I was like, here I am halfway through the game again. But it is so mind-blowing to me how well it runs on the Switch, where the gameplay is, it's one for one with the Xbox from my experience. The only difference being the loading, which is very upsetting because it is like three times longer. Really? Yeah, and I saw a game explain do actual side-by-side. And like, when I was playing, I noticed it was bad, but I didn't think it was like horrible.

It wasn't getting in my way. It was just like, this is kind of long. But watching it next to the Xbox, I was like, is it loading every time you die? Or is it loading between a low or? So that's the thing is it, it's not frustrating because it's not every time you die. When you die, the loading's pretty much instant to try and get back in. It's like when you load into the level for the first time.

It takes like 15 seconds. I wonder why that is. Not that bad, but it is more than what it was before. Yeah, more than you'd want. And to me, the thing that sucks even worse than that is not only does it take 15 seconds, But there's like this animation where you see the kind of like film clutter like going around where it's like all the dust and the dust and all that stuff. That's over the whole game, right? Even the loading screen, which is black.

So it's really noticeable because you just see the film grain. And then there's this little hourglass animated guy that's kind of hopping around and you see the sand going through. It's just a cute little thing. The slowdown on this loading screen is ridiculous. And it's not consistent at all. And the frame rate just drops. And so you see the film grain just kind of like stuttering. and then this little animation's like barely going.

And I'm like, this is bizarre. You should just not have that then. Was this the final code? Yeah. Yeah. So it's like that stuff I think is a little weird because it breaks the immersion

and I think that's what Cuphead is best at is making you believe that you're playing a cartoon. And cartoons would never stutter that way. You know, so even like just though it's a loading screen, I'm like, oh, I really wish this was a little tighter. Sure. But again, I would rather that

than the gameplay be affected. and the gameplay's not. It's 1080p 60 on docked, 720p 60 in your hands. And for this game, it looks great. Another comparison video I was watching next to the Xbox. It seems like the Xbox was a bit duller in color and the Switch one's more vibrant. And I actually prefer the look of the Switch one.

Yeah, it's funny how those, I don't know if they're still, yeah, I guess it's digital analog converters. But the way that they're built in the actual hardware, there's always these subtle differences in the color output and all this. They also could have just adjusted it. But yeah, it's funny to hear you say that. I thought you were going to say the reverse. So the fact that Switch is maybe more saturated and colorful.

It's definitely, yeah, it's more vibrant. It's cool. And you can play as Mugman for the first time in solo. There's cinematics that they added in between the different islands. Whereas before, I was just kind of still pictures. Now they're a little bit more animated. Any additional content? No real additional content at this point.

The DLC is coming, and it will be coming to Switch as well. They're putting out a physical version, which is exciting, but they're going to do that once the DLC's added, so they could just be a full package. But Cuphead's one of my favorite games of all time, and playing it again proves why. It's so fantastic. I feel like every single boss fight is, it's challenging.

It's not impossibly hard. You know, it is trial and error, and you know what you did wrong, and it's the definition of one more match, one more match. I'll get it next time. I'll get it next time. And I feel like I'm breezing through now. But that's because I've played it before.

So you got past the tutorial. In that game, it's a legitimate question. You didn't even play it before. You beat it already. I did it before. I did beat it before. I will beat it again. I will beat it again.

I will beat it again. I'll believe when I see it. I'm curious. Let's see. Did it come out almost two years ago? October 2017. Oh. So, yeah.

A while back now. But there's normally the exclusivity period, which is what that probably was about. What I'm thinking about is, is it's not coming to PlayStation. Like, now it's moved on to a Switch exclusive or like, what do you? No, not exclusive. But you see what I mean? Why is it not coming to PlayStation? I don't think it was an Xbox exclusive.

I think Xbox actually funded the game. Right. Through that, though, I think they probably put in the contract. I'm just guessing. I think it's more that Xbox and Nintendo want to be buddy-buddy and want to share each other's thing and Phil Spencer wants to put his games and his tech on everything possible.

This is the future. And I bet we'll be on PlayStation. If PlayStation would like play ball of them. Yeah. But you don't have to play this through the new... Did we learn more about Xbox Live Services? Kind of sort of. Yeah.

It's going to come to Cuphead later on. It'll be a patch added later on that will give you achievements. I think there's a little confusion about that stuff because it's like the way that Xbox Live API works is it's all internal. You're not like doing something different from the Switch or anything like that. And in fact, when it comes to games, you probably won't even notice except you'll go on the game and you'll have your Xbox Live achievements and log in and stuff. But it's already there on Minecraft on the Switch. So you can see how that works. It'll say like played on Nintendo Switch.

Well, I think it's give you achievements and stuff. Yeah. Well, I think it's because we have aspirations of the future. with what X cloud and how it's gonna use it. That's the big question. The image that I still picture is like whatever, I'm more fully featured locking into a streaming service. But anyway.

Game pass. But I definitely, there's the building blocks here that we're seeing get towards that because they talked about Xbox Live support is gonna come to Cuphead via achievements. But even right now, it's not Xbox Live yet, but the achievements are in the game. So it's just a menu though and it says achievements

and they like tick them off. It just you don't get the little thing popping up at the bottom. Yeah. I'm still stuck on the, question that why not PlayStation what's going on like did they well i mean PlayStation's closed right i mean i mean PlayStation's closed down and they don't want to do anything with each other and whereas with Xbox and Nintendo this is the tip of the same i mean is it um because it's not internal studios no it's Microsoft saying i bet you anything that phil spencer that like someone of

microsoft sends sony an email and was like hey like can we talk about this and either sony said no or sony made some ridiculous demand like they're just not sony traditionally i mean look at the cross-platform play thing. Like, they've been the one saying, no, you can't put this on PS4, even though cross-platform can be on Xbox, Switch, and PC. They're the ones who have been super stubborn,

and we have a walled garden with PlayStation, and that's their strategy, probably because they're in the lead. But in other words, it is still, I guess, a second-party title for Xbox. They own something in stake-in-it-it, so they have a say. Interesting.

It would be awesome on PlayStation, obviously. But I'm happy it's on Switch. Like, that's the ideal platform. It is. Just like Ding-Tong Excel. That's the preferred Which is the ideal platform for everything Yeah, right

Did you guys play Cuthhead at all On Xbox? Yeah, I played it for a second on PC I was like, I don't know Yeah, I played at events stuff And you know me I was like this is grueling, this is not why I play games I don't want to be constantly beat down Until I suck

Get that enough for my wife I love it Yeah, exactly I love game It is so brutal It takes so much like persistence Concentraves so I was playing it on stream and one, people love to watch you fail at that game.

There's nothing better than watching somebody fail at Cuphead and probably Dark Souls and Secura soon. The second thing is, and I have the clip, I actually should make sure I've archived this clip entirely, the earthquake at like 2 or 3am in the morning, I'm sitting there playing freaking Cuphead, and I've got my headphones on, and it was like immersive, and it actually was exploding on screen,

and it took me a hot second to figure out that I was shaking in, like, real life. I was like, whoa, earthquake. And I was like, all right, back to the game. I'm not disconnected. I remember that. Yeah, it was insane. I always have that memory with Cuphead. 40.

I was streaming while I'm freaking playing Cuphead. The thing about Cuphead, honestly, is that it's not comparable, I'd say. It's like the Souls games and that type of stuff because everything is over in a minute. Like the boss fights last a minute and a half. If you're as good as you are, yeah. No, no. You mean if you do them, yes. Yeah, succeeding at them takes a minute and a half.

And it's like then going back. And that's why I think it's really great is that. that it's designed to be, every boss fight has kind of phases, right? And like when you, when you die, you see the little flag checkpoints and see how many phases you made it through. And it's like once you lose 15 times and you realize like, okay, I know I can make it to face too easily. I just need to keep going and keep going.

But at the time you beat it, it's a minute and a half. Like some of them are less than a minute. And it's like that's what I love about it is that it's not ever asking you to do something that's super difficult for five, ten minutes at a time. I see you should say that you have to memorize that long of a sequence. Yeah. But even they, they randomized some of those patterns,

but once you know what you're looking for. It's an amazing game. I mean, everybody already knows it. I can't wait for more people to play. It's going to sell so well on the switch. It really is. It's the perfect platform for it,

except for the loading, apparently. Blood roots, Greg. Blood roots. Yeah. We did a party mode here on YouTube.com slash kind of funny games. It's full disclosure, this is a pop agenda game.

And so if I'm going to say that I like it, which I do. Obviously, Jen is doing PR in marketing for it. She does for Cuphead as well, but I don't... Cuphead on Switch. I ain't got shit to say about Cupheads. Whatever. No, Blood Roost is really fun.

The party mode, I think you should go check it out. The party mode is time trials, right? But the idea here is that, yeah, you're this wilderness dude in his bare skin cap, and you have to go through and kill all these people. You kill everybody in an area to then advance to the next one. However, it's more than just punching, right? It is you go through and can pick up anything in the environment and use it as a weapon. And it's real fast.

It's about going as quickly as you can. So when you actually are feeling it and going, person to person thing to thing, you're spinning the ladder, the ladder touches the fire and gets on fire and it's more powerful, you pick up the sword and all these weapons have different attacks and cannonballs and all this stuff. They want it to be this like action movie, right,

that never ends. It's kind of like Jackie Chan meets the Revenant thing is what they were talking about with it. Okay. The elevator pitch for this is amazing. And it feels that way, and it was, you know, when we were, I hadn't thought of it much as, like, this is what they've done at Pax's before where you play and try to set the times and stuff, and they were doing it yesterday at the Niddi's thing we went to.

playing it that way, you're like, oh, that makes so much sense, and it is such a cool way to do it. And doing it locally, where we were challenging each other's times, it was really smart. And even getting to watch, you know, Kevin went dead last

and still couldn't learn from everything we had done in the same way. I watched Nick fail at a bunch of stuff. And I couldn't, I was watching Nick fail. I'm like, oh, well, duh. And then I got in there and it would throw me off and I couldn't do it. And I would get hung up on what the challenge was

where I died, but then the thing I had beaten, no problem before, screwed me. I was like, it's that fun. What you're talking about, like one more match, right?

It's the same idea here of like, I can get this. I can do this. If I just go through and do it that way and that way. And, and you know, not like a ape out or whatever where the levels are procedurally generated.

You don't know really where you're going. This one, when you die and restart or where you go, people are all in the same spots. When we did multiple matches, they were all in the same spot. So you can survey the field. And even once you have beaten it,

imagine coming back and trying to do it better and better. But the art style is really cool. I thought that was good. Gameplay's fun. I like all the different things you can use and do. So go check out the party mode if you want to know more. Awesome. And then the next up was Neo Cab. Neocab, yes. When we were watching

the Nindi Showcase, we were doing that thing. We were trying, oh, that one's for me. Oh, that's not for me. Blah. This is Greg Miller asks. I'm like, a game where all I do is talk to people, color me interested, right? It's an emotional roller coaster of a game. The trailer looked great and it had almost like a

Neo-Toki, Tokyo Archer style to it, right, is what I thought looking at it, right? Because it's those deep and dark purples and pinks, right? But with that kind of archery like black hardline outlook or whatever. And the idea here is that you drive an Uber in this weird future, right? And you're driving through the streets of this made up California town. And it's all story based, right? And so the story is that you came to town and reconnected with your best friend. You guys hadn't talked, I think in a year, maybe a little bit more.

But you've come back to town. You're going to move in with your friend. You're going to set everything straight. And that first night, your friend goes missing. And so now you have to drive the car to earn enough money to keep going to try to figure out what's going on. and it's one of those games they talked about it I forgot about it I had it in my notes on this

these are my notes from playing not my notes from watching the thing but they talked about it being like you know an emotional roller coaster or something of that effect and they showed like

basically like a JRP chart of like your emotions and what colors were they were The feel grid or something like that yeah right I wish I had one of those yeah

it would be nice to know how we're actually all feeling but what's cool about that is the game's meant it's basically takes place over a week is what they were saying it's meant to be played multiple times

There's 21 characters in the game. You can't meet them all and engage with them all as you do it through one play through. Because your emotional spectrum based on the conversations you're having based on the outcomes of the conversations and what's going on, your emotional spectrum then can only like somebody will get in the car and they're happy. But if you're angry, then you're not going to be able to have your certain question or dialogue options will be grayed out, right? Or be changed between them because of the emotional state you're in. So you have to play through it and then play off of it and then kind of, you know, be a. a good Uber driver right and play off who's in the car and what do they want to hear or are you

mad or you want to get it's really a fascinating idea of it right and so you have to keep your star rating up otherwise you get bounced from being an Uber driver which is like a game over because if you do you can't afford to sleep somewhere charge your car like it's like a resource thing because it's charging your car sleep where do you go like there's a map and to figure out where you want to go to try to get rides and stuff like that it's it's this weird emotional story that's resource management that's driving an Uber I'm like yes Yes, a thousand times I want to play this entire thing. I can't wait.

That's hilarious. It's called emo cab. I mean, yeah, I think that's pretty much what they're giving off, right? Interesting. But yeah, it's super cool.

That sounds awesome. I feel like someone who was an Uber driver aspiring to make a game that's made this game maybe. Sure. So, like, I don't know. It feels almost like something that is reflecting on, you know, their life as an Uber driver. Sure. Well, I mean, it's like,

it's definitely taking, like, right, all these themes we all have, right? Of those weird conversations you have an Uber. Yeah. Somebody's been like, how don't make a game out of that? And then figuring out how to do it. I got thrown out of one once. Out of an Uber? Yeah.

What'd you do? It was a, I don't even, well, a little bit. Very fast. He frowned this up, I'm sure. This guy was a jerk. So I got in, no, sorry, I called the Uber and it's pulling up. It's an Uber pool, by the way. So there's a couple people.

Whatever. He's pulling up, and windows are all closed up, and he's looking at me, and he's doing this. And he's waving me into the car. And I was like, I thought he was. was telling me go ahead and I'm like, I don't know, and I opened the door. He's like, get in, man. And I was like, what?

You know, I was like hopped in. I was like, what's up, man? He's like, yeah, busy street. And I was like, oh, yeah. I was like, well, you can pick me up anywhere, man, doesn't matter. You didn't have to like wave me in or you could call me. And he's just like, started to get snappy with me. And so we went back and forth a few times.

He's like, you know what, man? I don't like, just get out of the car. And I was like, what? And he drops me off from like the middle of the ghetto. Of course I wrote Uber a very big write up. I'm sure you did. I'm sure you did. It was so lame, man. Throwing me out of the car.

I don't know if you're going to do well at Neo Cab. Neo Cab you might not. You're not going to have the emotional spectrum. I feel to really see all 21 characters. Oh, man. Swim Saturday, Greg. Swim Saturday, this is a real short one. Two brothers are working on this game, right?

It's their idea. I think they have a third partner and I do an art or whatever. One of the brothers, big kind of funny fans. So shout out to him. Multiplayer game. Did you see this? You remember this one during it, the Nindis? It's the one where you're underwater.

swimming you're shooting it's like you know a twin snick shooting all in different directions uh moving for to whatever side so that I played both competitive and then cooperative uh competitive is what you'd imagine right it's all of us swimming around the map right shooting at each other where there's different powerups that we can earn like you have an ultimate pretty much that you're building up to that you can unleash which you like you know for one of them was you turn into a tank that you so you can't take damage but you have this giant gun that's a one hit kill but it moves slowly and stuff like that there's you know healing uh ones you can do in uh

cooperative play like that. You're going around. I thought swimming in competitive, and this is just the style of the game, I think, felt slow to me, but of course you're underwater, so that's the kind of the point, I think. There is a dash button, right? Everyone's favorite levels, underwater levels.

Exactly, yeah, yeah. But there is a dash button to get away from stuff and move around, but, you know, since I'm twin stick shooting, right, like my thumb's already down here, my finger's already on the triggers. It was weird to jump up and do it. But I think it's like, that's what the balance of the gameplay was. So, long story short, I'm playing competitive. I'm like, okay, it's bright, it's colorful.

I don't know, I'm not really enjoying this part of it, though, probably a game I'll skip out on, you know what I mean? And then the cooperative part where it was all of us, PVE. That was a lot more fun, I felt like. We played the one that I think's in the trailer of what looks to be, I think it's the giant or whatever. It's the black and white fish at least with really gross teeth, norly teeth coming at you or whatever, right? So that's, we start the level and he's like, come on, we got to go. And so we're all swimming and we're all attacking all these different things. We're all building up to our own ultimates that, like, I was terrible at the game.

So I need to use the heel on myself, but I could have used it on. other people, when everybody had them and like we were close to the big fish, you could set them all off together to like one giant super ultimate. But going forward, similar to like, you know, being underwater and Mario, you're fighting all these different guys that are coming at you. You have a health bar that's dropping if you get hit. But then it would be like different pathways to go. And so then up top there'd be things anchored by giant chains, but we could blow apart the

chains to go. But then it would come down and like block other people. So there's this thing of trying to go, trying to get through everything and work together while keeping your ultimates up and doing all these different things. I thought the cooperative for me would be the way to play it and I think it would make a really good party mode

of us all swimming through trying to do stuff because the entire time the giant fish or whale was coming at us and it did get us in the end. Crosh bandix. Yeah, yeah. But it was cute, it was fun. It's a cool story of just two guys

who wanted to make a game and they're self-taught. They've been working on this. Another two guys making a game story, Creature in the Well. This is one of the ones. If you had Neo Cab, I had Creature in the Well

when I saw that, I'm like, I want to play this game. This looks awesome. It's like hyperlight drifter meets breakout slash pinball. Huh. Kind of weird. But it's isometric and you're walking around like hack and slash style. But you are hacking these balls or like light balls that bounce off and hit different things in the environment that'll light up or disappear.

And like it's it's very mechanical looking where there's like the world's kind of built like a pinball machine. So a lot of bouncing off and stuff. You can kind of charge the ball up with one of your weapons and then hit it with another one, which will slice the ball. So multiple balls will go. And like you're getting all these like it's your score is the light balls bouncing off things and kind of getting your light meter up. And then you use your light meter to open up different doors.

And it kind of becomes this give and take of you, there's a ton of different rooms and you have to decide, do I want to go left, do want to go right? And you don't need to do both. But if you do both, then you get more lights, which allows you to get. get better weapons and it's kind of just the loop I already started seeing where I'm just like, all right, like it is definitely designed to allow you to critical path it where you are just doing the straight challenges. But it's always worth it to go the other way because you'll find a room that is just kind of

a lineup where you shoot one ball and it just goes brr-brough and you're just like racking up scores. And that's kind of like the most satisfying part of pinball, which you would know. Heck yeah. Fran, the pinball wizard. Now, dude, Sam Claiborne and I, Jan is a pinball wizard. But I do love pinball. Yeah. Every time I go somewhere with it, I have to play.

You guys need to see Fran Mirabella play football. It's more of the experience of watching me. It's so physical. The way that he makes love to that machine, man. Oh, my God. But no, seriously. You got a little shake. Oh, my God.

But seriously, like, you know what I'm talking about, right? It's like when you get that ball and it's just like bouncing off the, like, the jackpot or whatever the hell it's called. And this game kind of has that feeling a lot. And it's really, it's really cool where it's the risk-first reward of like, how much am I willing to go out of my way to get that. you know, kind of exhilarating feeling. The game looks really cool. It's very, very, very cinematic. Like, it reminded me a lot, actually, of the Go games,

like Laracrofto and Deiastx Go and stuff, where it's like when you're going through and like the camera will just shift and like crazy monsters are like moving through. And it's really impressive to me how you can make a very, very, very simple looking game feel grand and cinematic. Sure.

But they did a great job with that. Control-wise, I didn't love it. it. And I found myself wanting to have certain buttons flipped. And I was asking them if we can do that. They're like, no. It was like, but that's good. Good feedback. Maybe we can see if we can get that fixed. Because I just couldn't fully wrap my head

around. Because you're moving and aiming with the same stick. It feels like it should be a twin stick shooter at certain points. Oh, interesting. Okay. So you, with your triangle button, right? Or I'm just, I know it's on switch, but I'm not good at the fucking buttons. Triangle is you're kind of like, you charge up the light and then square would be you hit the light away.

And, or no, it's the flip of that. But in my mind, that's what it should be. So I kept, like, fumbling that. But on top of that, it's like you'll charge the light. And then with the same stick that you're moving with, you aim to hit it into one of the bumpers. And then you have to hit the other button to hit it off. And then eventually as things get harder, you need to bounce it, bounce it. And I keep catching it and like baseballing it away.

Wait, what does the right stick do? Nothing. All right. Yeah, I would have to check that option. it's going to. So it's like, this is definitely one of those examples of like, I'm just not playing the game the way that they want me to. I'm also very stressed out because the developers right here and I feel very embarrassed

that my gameplay is absolutely horrible and somebody next to me is accidentally capturing my gameplay instead of theirs on a handheld thing. I had to be like, hey, you could use that but you don't want it. You want to come in a way. But that's, I hate that when something is an intuitive. And granted, it is a person by person thing a lot of times. But then it is in some other times where there are natural things we all look for in controls, right? That you think should work this way.

And when it doesn't, it does throw it off. And it does take away from the experience of trying to relearn how to do that. And I'm sure that, like, when I have it and I can kind of dedicate a bit more to it. Like, I might be able to. I didn't have it click. I guess that's the thing. And I didn't play this demo. I watched you play for a little bit.

You didn't start at the very beginning of the game, I assume, right? I think I did. Oh, okay. But I don't know. And like, again, like the challenge ramped up accordingly. Like, it felt appropriate. It felt right. It's just.

I was fucking up. I knew I was fucking up. But I kept feeling I was like, fuck, I know what I want to do and I'm just not doing it. You should have been like, guys, don't worry,

I'm good at Cuphead. Yeah, oh, trust me, Greg was behind me actually saying that. Yeah. It was so proud

and it became a joke here and now the Cuphead's back. I can use it all the time. All the day of time. So whenever I was out that you tell these guys you beat cuffing. But I mean,

Cuppets another example, though, and it's like, I don't want to sound like a broken record with this shit, but it's like, when controls don't work the way that you want them to.

Intuitive or not. It can totally kill a game. And the Cuphead's default control scheme is trash. Like, I don't know how they thought people could play the game that way. Like, you'd need the lobster claw the entire time. And it's like, it is just so crampy and so horrible. And the good thing about the game. That's good.

That's good. I don't think people say that, but that's a good way to describe a game with bad controls. But the best thing about it is it's fully customizable. So you can do whatever you want. You can change it. And I love it. I know, I'm like, okay, cool, this works how I want. wanted to. And I just feel like every game should have that option. I actually think it's interesting

is that when you're making an indie game and you, sure, you don't have a lot of resources, but how hard is it to add that in? Because that could be a huge barrier to entry the first time people try. So maybe that is something that folks need to prioritize more like just customizable controls could go really far in taking someone past the, you know what, it's not for me, right? Because I do think it's important. Yes, exactly. Dude, same problem. Dude, perfect for bring it up. The default controls make no freaking sense. And it took me a while. I was like, I got to change up, Devil May Cry

controls. None of it makes any sense. Yeah, but they let you. Yeah, they let you do it. And then it totally works. Yeah, I looked at the, I was looking at the footage. It kind of looks, yeah, a little, almost like Hades as well. Yeah, it does. You almost want that hitting a ball around the room, destroying stuff. I get it, but in Hades, you can do

what you're talking about. You can target with the right six. I get why you would want to do that. And I get from a gameplay perspective, it's like they're not trying to make that game. Like they're not trying to make the right stick work, which is fine. I just feel like I was struggling with it. And again, I need more time with it. I don't like this game is cool and so much about it.

I want to go back to it. April 18th. No, no, no. That's for Catana Zero. Yeah, it is. But let's talk about Katana Zero. Summer 2019 is. Did you get to play it?

Minimal hands-on with it. I got to play for 10 minutes maybe. Yeah. I watched over the shoulder for, I watched Andre Seeger's hog the thing. He didn't let me play. I came back in before I had to leave. I watched somebody else hog the whole thing, and then I had to go to another demo.

But from everything I saw, I'm all about this game. That's the problem, in quotes, is that was the start of the show. Everybody wanted to play it. Everybody wanted to get multiple hands on with it. Watching people play, it was so great because we were in this room with like, I don't know, 60 people in it, I would say,

all playing different games. And this one kid was that was just playing over and over. Was she just hogging it the whole time? No, it wasn't. But this one kid was playing, like, this one room was just fucking his day out. And he was like trying over and over and over. And then eventually out of nowhere just goes,

Yes! And like everyone stopped and looked over it. It was so scary. But everyone again had that moment. That's a good side. They had this one where they're like, you did it, man. Good for you. It was great.

That's just like Cuphead. Same deal. Exactly. But yeah, Katana Zero, man. It just looks like the word cool turned into a video game. Yeah. It's like all the things that you could want. All right.

2D side scroller. Great, great pixel art. 2D side scroller that has the kind of ambition of Messenger mixed with the quick you fuck up you get to do it again of Celeste mixed with just the coolest 80s synth soundtrack all of it's just like I'm totally into this and there's like a rewind time feature going on and on top of that they have a very unique storytelling mechanic where you can you talk to your therapist about the adventures that you had that day but like you can Simerator but you can skip it if you want and

And that'll affect the gameplay story. And I'm like, this is cool. I love that. That's the thing. Until done. Yeah, exactly. From the trailer, like that and getting your drugs, it's like, this is, it's got the Celeste vibe. It's got the Hotline Miami vibe.

It's got the messenger visual style, right? But it's like there seems to be an undercurrent of something else happening there, right? That I'm like really into as well as into, you know, one hit kit. You get hit once you're dead, but you can, you know, shoot around the level with your, like, ninja skills. And then you can hit the bullets back at people. Like this seems awesome. So to me, the messenger vibe that I'm getting is the, oh, there's something else going on here. Yeah.

Yeah. Type of thing where it's like, I think visually, it's actually very unique. This is a type of pixel style that like we haven't really seen. It reminds me more so of a pixelated metal slug. Yeah. Then a lot of the other type of platformers we've been seen recently. But it looks really cool. It looks challenging, but not like beat you over the head difficult.

And the story elements seem cool because it's like it's a 2D platformer, but then And yeah, you'll talk to characters and like options will come up and you can choose one of them or you can just choose to like essentially put in your headphones and hit play on a cassette. And it's just this rock in 80s music. It's like very, very cool. I watched multiple people play through the same sections I did and make different choices. It seemed to really affect what was going on. And yeah, you take drugs to slow down time. And it does cool things where you'll be in a hallway and there's like an event fan going and you need to try to get through it.

If you try to like, if you try to dash through, you'll dive, put you back in the beginning of the room, you have to go through again and slow down time. But the effects are cool where the fan is like animated in 3D coming towards you. So it's like it's playing with depth in a way that I thought was really interesting. And it does the whole kind of like the silhouette thing that we've seen a bazillion times now, like starting with like Donkey Kong country returns where it's like you get those levels that are just beautiful art style. Limbo even, I would say. But I feel like this from what I've seen kind of adds a gameplay mechanic to it Where and we've seen it before like in Sonic Mania some of the levels had it But you can kind of go behind the

The foreground and that'll affect what can hit you and what can So it's very cool very exciting and that that one's April 18th Shout out when we are shot at to the keen-eyed kind of funny best friends and then the developer Justin When we were watching this it popped up like, oh, I've heard of this game. And I was like, man, I haven't. This looks awesome. I can't believe I didn't know about this game.

Walked in, literally walked to the couch. Justin, the developer saw me. Came where he was like, oh, hey, you're Greg. I'm like, yeah, he's like, hey, I just wanted to thank you. I don't know if you remember. Four years ago, I came and showed this game on your GDC live stream. I was like, no, I don't remember that. I will be honest with you.

I don't remember that, but that makes sense. It might, it was either, yeah, it was at Patreon. So it might have been like, remember how they did. We switched off. Yeah, there was that. And then we did the party on top of like our all day stuff. So it might have been one of the party ones where we didn't actually book it. It was like the indie mix people brought people through.

Because yeah, that game. Regardless, I was like, this is this is what I want to play right now. It's a standout, man. Six years, I think. And the biggest, the last thing I want to say about it, and the thing that I'm most excited about is I think Celeste was such a game changer because it added the story elements to a 2D platformer. And it made the story feel like it affected the gameplay and made me want to push harder

to find out. what's happening and all of that. And I feel like this is next step in that as well where it's like they're taking in it. But it's a totally different vibe. So very excited for Katana Zero. It's not been on my radar, but I have to say,

listen to you talk about it and looking at it, the hype meter went way up. It looks cool. It looks so cool. And I love like the whole retro synth vibe with like guitar and almost got guitar too. You keep mentioning Celeste. What did you think of the music and stuff in Celeste?

It's great. Yeah. Those two guys made it over there. Wait, what? It's what it is. Oh my God. We're the sound designer. Nice.

Holy shit. Life's really, really, really weird. But yeah, oh my God, thank you guys for making it. I know he loved it. I know he loves Celeste. I took a shot. Yeah. That's why I recognize the guy with the beer.

On stage, it dice all the time. Yeah. All the time. They walked in. Adam walked in. I was like, oh, yeah, Adam's name in the show. And then they walked in and I was like, oh, my God, did I double book devs? And I don't remember the other devs.

And then he's like, oh, the Celeste guys are like, that's why I know him. I remember him. I remember him from the awards last night. Oh, fuck. That's so awesome. You guys made one of my favorite games of all time, so thank you for that. My friend Pedro. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I did not get hands on with this one. I did. I don't understand. It's a game I want to sit down and play start from the start. Because jumping in, you look at it, you're like, oh, my God, you've seen it, right, Jason? This Devalver one, slow motion, you're talking to a banana. It's kind of like... I didn't watch the Indy thing.

I was at a panel at two. Oh, okay, well, this one's been a lot of passes and stuff. Devalver's been doing this one for a while. this one I always thought it looked like oh it's Deadpool and then playing I'm like oh it's a Deadpool game which is great that's fine it's cool like you don't heal but I mean it is like you're wearing a mask you're crazy enough to talk to a banana

he's giving you missions like whatever cool and he's a talking banana I always thought looking at it Kevin's showing it right now like how slow how slow people are moving and stuff I was like oh okay like that's like some kind of bullet time thing right it's not like that's how you move in the game and so jumping out like oh I didn't expect it

Well, even some of this, it looked like that, that's, like, you see what's happening here. Like, he speeds up a little bit there, but I never,

I don't know, it never got super fast for me. And I was like, I don't understand what's happening. Is it just this level? Is it not? Is it something I'm missing? Is it whatever?

Interesting. And so, like, I like it is something I want to do more with. It also wasn't easy, if that makes sense. Like, looking at that looks so good to do cool shit. It was me,

it's twin stick again, so I'm moving in my, so I'm running in like, my back's to the wrong. I'm like, fuck, I'm shooting. I gotta do this whole thing and come over here

and I'm shooting it. It was like, I felt like I'm an idiot for a lot of part of it, but it was fun to like be crazy, be doing these crazy moves. If you spin like in a circle,

like, or yeah, in a circle as you move, you can dodge bolts that way. You can flip tables and go into cover behind them. You can shrink down into a little somersault ball

and go through things. Like, it's got something there. It looks like there's a rhythm there too. Exactly. And that's my thing. For sure, I don't even know

if I was at the start of the demo because it was literally just an unattended switch that I picked up and so I was like restart the level and so I was deep into it so I don't understand all the mechanics it left me not like holy shit I can't wait but definitely where I'm like I want to see this three well I want to get it from the beginning and see what it's all about it looks cool man yeah it's like it's like Matrix meets John Wick meets what's the game with like the floppy arms that you like try to knock gang beasts yes it's almost it looks a

little like you have those arms but then you're also John Wick and they're just like spinning around and stuff it looks cool there was a sequence in the trailer where It's like on a barrel, like shooting everyone around them. Looks really cool, man. Also excited about that one. June 2019 is what Steam says. Yeah. Getting out of the Nindies, Greg.

Indies can go to hell. Oculus Quest. Oculus Quest blew my goddamn mind. Saw this post. Yeah. Got me excited. So the backstory to this is Oculus people, a friend of mine who used to PR, you know, PR friend who did PR at Activision Forever, who I've known forever,

is always trying to get me to do Oculus stuff. I'm like, nah, on PlayStation VR. or death. Thank you very much. And then it was like, all right, cool. We have Beat Sabre stuff. And I'm like, all right, now I'm listening. What's happening? And so when they were getting ready to do the Beat Sabre DLC pack,

there was like, hey, can we, how could we work with you guys for announcement of that? And then it was, all right, cool. We want to announce that Beat Sabre is going to be one of the launch games for Oculus Quest. Could we do something around that? And we went around for a while. This is not a great fit for us.

But she's like, well, you have to come to the event then. I'm like, all right, cool. And so I was totally late. It was Monday night. We filmed extra stuff here. So we were running late. I got down there after dropping 40 off. There was 30 minutes left in the event.

And so it was immediately like, oh my gosh, all right, cool. Come upstairs. And they took me upstairs and like, here's the beat saver devs. And I got to finally meet them like face to face. And I was like, oh, man, that's great. Love the game. And you're so great. And so it's cool.

And it was like, all right, well, here, you got to go. Like, we're running out of time at 8 o'clock. They shut this event down. Here's the quest. Here's the sticks. All right. So I put the quest on, grab the sticks. And I hit to play.

And it went play. And then I could hear it. And I was like, wait, and I mean, I'm in the VR, but I'm like, wait, where are the headphones? Because no one put the headphones on me. There were, and there were no little headphones that slid down off the sides. You know what I mean? And they're like, no, they're built into the band. So the band has the stereo speakers, yeah, projecting in the-

It's like those neck headphones you can get where it like. Exactly. But these ones are just perfectly built in. I didn't notice them all. Now granted, I put the headset on two seconds, but I wasn't paying attention. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's awesome. I start playing Beat Sabre. It is, it is beat saber as I played on Oculus Survive.

You know what I mean? I've, you know, my lion's share of my 99% of what I've played at Beat Sabre, of course, is PlayStation VR where I was playing every day for a long time. And I'm playing and immediately I'm like, yep, this is Oculus. Like the tracking is flawless. It's great. I feel in complete control. Whereas with PlayStation VR every so often, I'll see like my, my left stick, you know, start turning around and do stuff. And usually it's fine when I use it, but it will wig out a little bit and I have to like snap it in or stay out of the direct sunlight or stuff like that at home. But I'm doing it. It's great. I'm going. And I'm going. And I'm going.

I'm like, well, I'm dancing like, they have the mat down, right? They have the rug down there. And I notice that I'm off the mat, but I'm like totally into it. I'm doing my thing. And I'm not. You're outside now. I'm not. I'm not.

I'm not. I hear the guy. I see the red of sunlight and it works still. I hit Phil Harrison right in the head. I'm on the stage with him at Google. No, I finished the song and I've been all over the room and like super free. It's super light. It's great.

And I pulled it off. And she was like, do you want another song? And I was like, no. and I looked around, I'm like, where are the cameras? And she's like, no, no, the cameras are in the headset. They're on the headset. Like, there's no external cameras to worry about. And I was like, okay, where's the PC?

And she's like, did you not read the press? No, there's not, no, it's all, it's just the headset and the wands. And I was like, I need someone to explain this to me. I totally went in there like a moron, not understanding anything. I'm thinking it was, because it was like, oh, Quest is the new wireless Oculus. I was like, oh, okay, cool. It's like the HTC vibe we have from the Amazon streams, right? that has no wires.

I get it. It's still tethered to the system. It's still tethered to cameras. I didn't realize this was a standalone solution to VR. And it was just what you use. $400. It's the headset. It's the wands and you're playing it, right?

And that's why it was a big deal. I finally all clicks of like, oh, Beat Sabers a launch game because it's not the entire Oculus library, right? They're going to have to make games for this, do all these different specs for it. And so, yeah, it was a legitimately like, oh my God, moment for me of, I'm an idiot for coming in completely unprepared,

not looking at all of what the quest was. But it was also kind of exciting to experience it that way. Totally. And that was the thing of like I was like I was surprised again because I was unprepared for it and thought I was really just going to oh coolly I want to see what this thing's about

whatever. When I tweeted about it like the immediate reaction people had was like number one that's so great and then number two but like what about what are the visuals like are they totally degraded? Are they blah blah blah and what so keeping in mind that I played it not understanding I should be looking for that, right?

I played that, and to me, that was Oculus. Now, again, I don't have, I don't play Oculus ever, unless it's like, you know, we're doing the streams or whatever, or it's an event. So I can't sit here and tell you, oh my God, yeah, it looks just like every other Oculus game, or it looks like what I remember Beetsaber on Oculus looking like, and Vive looking like, which means to me that it looks great,

because playing Beat Sabre on PlayStation VR, I'm like, yep, screen door effect, everything's a little bit duller. It's not as sharp, still a great looking game, but not as sharp as it is when I use it. if when I took it off they would have been like yeah you've been playing on a real Oculus I'd be like oh it makes sense cool what's the next game you know what I mean

like it looked that good to me I'm not the guy who can compare it Oculus to Oculus you know that compared to PlayStation VR I think it looks better than PlayStation VR so that's a feather in this cap and then the other thing I would say is that they were like oh let's see we want to show you a couple of other things I went downstairs right

played another game there that was a completely different game it was on a real Oculus but I was tethered which immediately I put that on like oh no I've tasted greatness I can't do this again oh no But you put it on and that game, while completely different than Beat Sabre, that game to me looked worse than Beat Sabre. So this is the thing of trying to compare this, right?

Having extensive Beat Sabre knowledge, playing pop stars and Beat Sabre on Oculus Quest, I thought it looked awesome and great. And you couldn't, it wouldn't be what I was expected. If you were to hand me, you know, my phone in a VR thing, I know what it's going to look like and what quality I'm going to get. This tricked me not knowing that I was getting into that in a blind taste test. I would have been like, oh, yeah, sure, this is what Beat Sabre looks like. on Oculus.

I should have just recorded you and made that the commercial for the... You know what? They might still. This might be a very last quote on it. But loved it.

I thought, yeah, I was totally in. It's crazy. You know, I talk about it of, you know, I was doing the Beat Sabre stuff every day in December

after it launched, right? And it wasn't until January when Jen and I went to Montreal that I totally fell off and haven't gotten back on it, right? Because it was vacation

and I'm not going to bring my entire PlayStation VR with me in my unit, blah. This is such an awesome solution to that of, yep,

just toss it in a bag. You know what I mean? It's the size of my travel kit with my toothbrush. Yeah. And like, you know, Rami from Vlambeard, you know, tweeted this week of like, he couldn't be without his Beat Sabre on PlayStation.

So he actually did bring his PlayStation and then bought another PlayStation VR unit here and it's selling that before he leaves. And it's like, what a weird little fix for this is? You know what I mean? Or have those kind of things. Interesting.

Beat Sabers is a great game, Chase. Yeah. I don't have you know this. I mean, I'm not a VR person. Well, I'll tell you right now. I'll tell you right.

How many it won two awards last night at the GCSew. I'm in doing this. Actually, why aren't you a VR person? Because it makes me motion sick. Okay, that's why. I get you. And also, I mean, I don't like the idea of shutting myself off. I live in New York.

Fire can break out at any time. My wife would be dead. Many, many different things could break out, including a zombie apocalypse. Greg, the final game to talk about today, World War Z. Right. Yeah. They were trying to get me to go to see World War Z. They booked me, and they know, I'm a zombie guy or whatever.

Another game I went in and I was like, you know what, I'm not going to look at. I remember vaguely last year someone trying to book me a World War Z thing. I remember an announcement of a World War Z game whatever, I'm not paying attention. I'll go do this one. Went in there and it's Left for Dead in third person. I played it on PC

it was really beautiful. It ran really, really well and it was a lot of fun. And this is really an interesting timing for it because we just had on Games Daily a question back and forth over multiple days of if Left for Dead came out now, Leffordead 2 even.

Would you pay $60 for it? It was a conversation that had come up, right? Everybody arguing about battle passes and add-on content, blah, blah, blah, right? This game is the more modern take on that, I guess, and this is obviously from an hour-long demo where I played PVP and PVE. But it is what I am looking for. It is definitely something that's going to, I'm going to try to get Fran to play with me that I hope that's going to pull me away from the division,

but make me want to play shooters. Did you see that Turtle Rock is making their own? Oh, yeah. Oh, what is it? Bad for Blood? Battle for Blood? Back for Blood? Back for Blood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't wait. Yeah, but that's so far out, right? It's all as it was. They had a headline. This one's, April 16th, this one's coming out. And I was like, oh my gosh, but it is left for dead in the way that they have right now. That's right next to the day's gone. It's hard to trap you. That's good point, too.

Bad timing. Yeah, yeah. That's really bad time. Well, but it's going to be different, right? Because it is that this one's, you know, playing co-op with your friends. No, it's going to be different because Days gone has freakers. Of course. Remember, Days gone, they aren't zombies. They are just infected humans. About Division episode one and like the raids, Greg. What does that happen? Come on, don't worry. When that happens, I'm going back to D.C. All right.

I go wherever the division tells this agent to go, he goes. The outskirts is the next one. But no, playing this one, it follows a left for dead formula of like, it sounds like it's going to wink and nod launch with four episodes. They said they've announced three wink and a knot. So every episode has three chapters. Every episode has its own cast of four characters. Every episode has you playing through this.

And it is, you play through it and it's like Left for Dead of get in there and have fun. Let's not get bogged down in classes. There are class archetypes of like, all right, you know, you're the grenader and I'm just the guns person, blah, blah, blah. But as you play in the PVE part of it,

you are leveling up, you're earning XP, you're applying that to upgrades and like perks you want. So you can start with like, okay, at level seven, I've unlocked the ability to start the game with the assault rifle, rather than have to worry about finding an assault rifle as you go. On top of that, you are earning

some kind of currency or leveling up, I forget now, to put into the guns so you can make your shotgun better, you can make your assault rifle better. There is a reason to keep coming back there, along with perks and things like that, more grenades. So you run through, and it's left for dead in terms of, yeah, we're shooting a bunch of zombies, we're trying to do a bunch of different things,

but then it's pulling the, I guess the only thing, in my zombie opinion that makes World War Z stand out in any way, right? It was the pyramiding of zombies. So it was like we had been running through this thing. We got to a garage. We had to take over a space, So we, it was like the hordes coming or whatever. We laid down all our defenses.

And then this really impressive amount of zombies starts pouring in. And they do start running up to the walls. And they do start building up. So you had to take out the bases of them and call it out for your friends. And everybody's using these different turrets. And then, you know, later on it was, you know, all right, cool. This guy's got to work on the van. So two of us hang back to protect him.

Two of the other people run off to get the different gas canisters. We have to get three canisters before they all get here, blah, blah. It was really cool there. And then the PVP part was, PVPVZ. So it was player versus player with zombies all over the place. So we were competing with each other in a capture or King of the Hill and domination kind of mode. And it was really fun there. And that has its own leveling up, its own perk system and stuff, obviously to make it apply there.

I came in with no expectations, hadn't heard anything about this game other than the fact that it was being worked on. And I'm very excited for April 16th to get it. I think for sure it'll make a great party mode. I hope that the fidelity that was running on the PCs we were, it will be how it is on console. That'd be my one concern, right? Because it was, man, this is running super smooth. And man, these zombies look all great.

But if that looks like crap on PlayStation or whatever, that's a good problem. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Sounds exciting. Tim. Not sole. Now, no, not sold at all. Now a break for our sponsors. This episode of Gamescast is brought to you by Robin Hood.

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That's F-O-R-H-I-M-S dot com slash kinda. Forhims.com slash kinda. And we're back, ladies and gentlemen. But the topic of the show, Tats, Tuts. I'm just going to call this predicting the next generation of video games. There's a lot of kind of things

I want to throw out there. This week, huge announcements. We got Google entering the streaming race, the cloud gaming and all of that stuff going on. Cloudia. We have, you know, epic game stored, Steam kind of back. Howling it out every day there's some new announcement of an exclusive or this or that.

You know, we got the budding relationship between Microsoft and Nintendo and what could that possibly mean. We got PlayStation out there being quiet. You know what I mean? They're in their ivory tower. They're in their ivory tower. Throwing money out the windows. Then we got, you know, because of this Google Stadia situation, we got an interesting thing brewing with Twitch versus YouTube coming up as well. And what that means for gamers, all that.

Just want to throw all that in there. Jason, I feel like you'd be a good place to start with this. What are your thoughts? Which one of those should I address? Where do you want to start? Where do I want to start? Well, predictions, I mean, I predict there will be a new PlayStation and there will be a new Xbox, maybe more than one of the rumors are to be believed.

And I think it's pretty safe to say. I remember last year, around this time, I remember publishing an article that was like, guys, this is not coming for a while because there had been some other article on some weird tech website that was like, PS5 might come out in 2018. It's just like, what? But at the very latest, 2019, I think by now it's pretty clear that these consoles are not coming out in 2019.

So we will see them next year in some capacity. And yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting to see how they are all reacting to Google. We know Microsoft is doing Xbox XCloud, which is their own streaming service. It'll be interesting to see if they're all frightened of Google, if they don't know anything, if they're just like, whatever,

like we're just going to do our own thing. It's interesting times. It's a battle in the heavens above the clouds with Microsoft and Google up there, fighting for server space. It's exciting. For me, my quick reaction, by the way, was like, I'm just glad that Google's doing it.

What about the lag? What about, they are making huge moves with tons of money as one of the biggest companies in the world and entering the space. It's going to be similar, maybe to see what Apple does with challenging Netflix and Amazon Prime stuff.

But just the competition period is going to push people for it. If I was Microsoft right now, I'd be like, okay, well, on the plus side, we can let them get out the door first, and then we'll plan our reaction, you know. But they're going to have to, who knows? They might have seen something in the presentation. Like, dang, that is not in development yet, you know, maybe the instant play. Did you see the Phil Spencer letter or whatever that went up? Yeah, it was a leak from internal, what it was basically like, he, I think he complimented the integration with YouTube that he thought that was a, that, and what was the other thing?

There was something else he complimented in the thing. But other than that, he was like, we will be big at E3. Yeah, he's like energizing times, right? I feel like honestly,

I was talking to people about it at GDC yesterday who had missed it, right? And I know that I've talked a lot about my own passion, how exciting I find the streaming stuff to be. And I thought Microsoft did a better job

of their first blush at this with their contained trailer. We're working on this thing and where it's test marketing, blah, coming out with their presentation, because I thought the presentation seemed to get all the way up to, let's make a big announcement and stopping.

And I'm not saying it's not a big announcement, but it is the thing of, hey, we're clarifying a whole bunch of stuff, but not telling you the hard facts. Well, so the thing to consider is that this is a game developers conference, and right now their big goal and has been for a long time

is to recruit all these developers onto their platform. They're looking to buy companies. They're looking to invest in companies and fun games that are exclusive to Google Stavia. And obviously, C-Stavia. It's such a terrible name. I keep already misproncing. Stadia.

Google Stivia. and they keep they're looking for big publishers to put their games on their platform as well so this was more of a pitch it was kind of a pitch to the world but it was more of a pitch to like

that's fair I get that by the way I do feel it's such a cop out of like and by the way coming from producers and I'm a producer and think about how to do these events I'm sorry it was not a great opening at all to the presentation

I was not a fan of it meaning I agree that is what happens at GDC you're 110% right I think it's a total cop out that whatever the plan went into like we're going to announce a brand new service for gamers. This is for gamers and game developers are gamers and so there's a way to come out with excitement

also without the fakeness of it, right? We've seen companies make the mistake. So I felt like presentation left much to be desired, but once they finally took them I felt like forever to be like, and here's what it's really about, right? We're streaming from this, instantly jump in. That should have all happened within the first like three minutes and then walk us through your technology and your flops. You don't like the Google CEO coming up?

and be like, I don't play games. Yeah, exactly. Like, I felt like it happened. That is what happens, by the way. Very powerful people that are in the executive chain. Be like, look, we're just going to keep it simple. We're doing it. Well, so what Phil Harrison said, he's the guy in charge of Google Estadia.

Has experience. He told us, he basically implied to us when, well, when we asked, like, how do we know that Google isn't going to abandon this thing? Or they abandoned Google Plus and Google Glass and Google Reader and Google inbox and Google Hangouts and Google Wave and I can keep going and going. But so his response was basically like, look, the CEO came on board in the first few minutes to show you how serious we are about this. And then that's how I feel like because I'm totally with you. I'm all about the hype, obviously. And I want every press conference to begin and end and have in the middle some big huge like punch, punch, punch. You get it.

Like Sony press conferences have been at E3. But I do think that this is different and it's important. And I'm with you where it's like I don't give the, oh, it's GDC thing credit because it's like that's true. But it's also like, yeah, but people are watching it. It's the real thing. You went big for it. But the thing with that is my barometer is my group of friends that are, they play games every once in a while but are not gamers. They don't consider themselves gamers at all.

They all hit me up about this. And they're like, it's just a controller. It plays games. You can play it anywhere. And they're excited about that. They don't know what it is. But they're excited. And I think that they're excited because they didn't watch the stream.

But they heard that the Google CEO is involved and that this is a real thing and that Google's really put. something behind this. And I think the most important thing is that I agree with you what you're saying earlier, it's like they're coming out here and it's not going to be perfect for everybody in the world. In fact, it's probably not going to be perfect for many people in the world. But this is now ushering in a new world where everyone else is going to have to figure something out so that in five years, maybe it will be. Yeah. When you, you know, the way I've been putting it simply to people is like, I'm like, show me Apex, show me Fortnite, just let me play it anywhere they want. It's really simple, by the way. They're free games. Everything can play.

So just show it to me. And when you were ready with that, that's when we finally made it. But then obviously we know we have a long way to go. I saw some hands-on and then this report about, you need ideally 25 megabits per second. It's kind of like Netflix and their 4K streaming. I forget if it's 13 megabits. And that sounds like ideally for single-player games. Like multiple-player games pose their all sorts of latency challenge.

And really, how does the game intend to run? Is it mostly at 30 frames per second game? Because that's probably still going to exist too, or people that choose to do that. So anyway, we've got a long way to go, but I did just want to point out, don't forget and don't be fooled. It's like when you're watching a stream. That is what's happening, that you are sending a signal over the internet, and you can talk about breaking down barriers. They're encoding video to send back to you of what you just did, which is an incredible challenge. Now, granted, I don't know, all the ins and outs, but probably literally what's happening is you're sending your signal over the internet.

And as it's quickly encoding and parallel on the GPU, it's sending you that encoded frame as fast as possible. But, dude, it's got to get to you in that, the speed of light, you know, it's the idea, right? So I feel like my point is we've got a long way to go. I am super excited, though. I do believe it's the future of gaming. Look what Netflix has done. We talked about this many shows ago now. What's happening?

We're finally getting there. And it's just exciting that Google and, right, they're spending, right? My joke was going to be that Phil knew that they're committed because they paid him for five years, probably. But I think they're going to stick with it. And just whatever happens, they are definitely. I have a tremendous ability to push this technology. And whether it's used for gaming or anything in the world, it's so applicable to what we do.

But I am excited. I think there's probably tons of more questions asked about the games, the everything. Absolutely. But I think they also did a good job with the games where, okay, they came out and spoke to the uses of the world saying there is a first party studio that we're making. And that implies there's going to be really high quality exclusives, right?

But I also think they did a good job of coming out and being like, okay, here's Doom, you know, Assassin's Creed. It's like we didn't need to see a bazillion games. We get the idea. It's, oh, you're not the Switch. Like, you're going to have the third party titles. They're going to be there. Well, I get Doom's on the Switch.

But you know what I mean. It's like we can expect any major. You're in Assassin's Creed, right? Yeah. We're going to get, like, those big games on this. And I think that that's important because I think that this is more for the mainstream than it is necessarily for the hardcore gamers that are going to have that as their only system. It's not really a system.

But like, I don't think anybody. that they're expecting hardcore gamers to commit to this being their only thing. I think it's either gonna be a secondary thing for people or it's for the people that would never consider buying a $400 console in the first place. And this reminds me of the shift to mobile gaming and why so many people are now gamers

that were not gamers before because they have mobile games and all this lag and input stuff, they're not gonna be worrying about that. And in fact, I would like to issue the challenge out there to people of like all the latency and all the stuff, yes, it's an issue and it's for the people that care about 4K and HGRR,

It's the biggest issue. But for the people that don't, for the people that probably have never even touched the settings on their TV, they probably don't even know that they currently have a hundred millisecond lag when they play games. But that's just how games feel. They forgot to turn on game mode. What's wrong with you?

That's what I'm saying, though. Most people don't turn on game mode. It's what we talk about all the time, and you've driven home on the stream and talking about PlayStation VR and everything else. It's good enough. You know what I mean? I think this is, you know, you touched on the rumors for Microsoft, right?

with what's going to happen with Xbox Scarlet and two different skews and one's just streaming. Like I feel like that's a very interesting and smart choice on their end of, hey, guess what? Here's our new console. And this is if it's all correct. This one just streams. It's this cheap price point. For the first time ever, a whole different wave of people, a different strata of gamer is going to be able to be there on launch day paying for this cheap system and the excitement of having a new system.

However, the people like us that are crazy about all that, there is this. much more expensive version that runs everything in 4K natively and it's a powerhouse and you can play everything locally. Don't worry about the streaming problem or don't worry about streaming period. That's what I'm most interested about this, the scarlet idea with Xbox, is, is it going to be streaming only or is it going to be, are you going to be able

to download as well? I think you're going to play locally. Yeah. To the options. I mean, that's the rumor, right? The rumors that there are two different skews. And one of them is, that'll be the same game, right? The disc was one. Platform skews. Right.

Yeah, right. But yeah, but so, but I understand your point. That's interesting. Will the streaming one have enough hard drive on it to download games as well? Or can you? Yeah, exactly. Or can you at least attach a hard drive to it? I would say yes.

Yes, you'd be able to. And I think that that's the difference, the key difference. And why I think that the Microsoft side is way more exciting in the initial future than Google, because they have this library games. They have game passed. They've been working on backwards compatibility forever. And it's like, they'll be able to out the gate be like, And there's this thing.

And if they have the downloading thing, I feel like that's... Buy the streaming Xbox 2, we're just going to call it, right? Buy the streaming Xbox 2 for what? We go back and forth in this all the time. 150? 70 bucks. 100? Like, can they get it down to that, right?

I feel like it has to do that. We're bundling in two months of game pass. You have unlimited games to play on this thing that you've just, like, that'll be such a crazy move for such a huge segment of people that have never been able to afford a next gen console on day one. Oh, yeah, it's backwards compatible with everything that's happened on Xbox one before so you have that giant library you have game pass you have all these different options to go in there and use it on this one little box the Chromecast Ultra is $70.69

but so and you need that yeah if you want to play 4K on TV with the with stadia yeah right so using that kind of as a benchmark you got to imagine that the Xbox whatever it is is more than that I would think so like because it is not going to be just a dongle not to yeah it's going to be that and it's gonna have a controller, right? Like that's how you sell a console. That's a good point. With the controller, it might be $100,

probably the, I mean, if they can launch one at $99, 90, that would be insane. Be brilliant. Yeah. And I think, and again,

I think Xbox, as I've always said it, is building this foundation to get to this moment. And if they can afford to pull that trigger and get that headline of like, all right, yeah, guess what?

The next generation costs you $99 to get here. I think it's definite potential. I mean, that's, sorry, Tim. No, I can see them doing that but without a controller. And it's hard for me to,

vision them selling it without a controller. $100 is like... But you don't need anything more than a connection to your TV, some hard drive space with some basic, you know, probably on board processing for the menus or whatever. You don't need a lot. I mean, I would hope that's the talk. I mean, what, figure your controllers are what, $65, $70 right now?

60. I was going to ask that. Is it? Yeah, they still... Yeah. So maybe it'd be closer to like $130. Yeah. But again, we talk about eating it all the time.

Like, I don't... Here's the deal. They are hungry, right? they want to fucking make up ground and they want to make the next generation about them. Yeah, if all these things have to have a subscription to use them, then of course you can sell the hardware at a loss. I think, yeah, that's another interesting point to bring up here. You've kind of got these different skews like we're talking about. The one obvious skew for Xbox is the high-powered, you know, 8K, I'm joking, but 4K HDR, high-powered, yeah, high-powered house.

Oh, I heard you guys like taraflops, huh? Yeah, but download it, get super high fidelity. You're getting a PC, you know, quality experience. Maybe you can even run it 120 hertz, I don't really know. But you're going to get some high quality, probably. That's the console. But then you move on to this next skew that we're talking about. Somewhere in that sweet spot of not too expensive, comes to the controller, plug it in and get going.

And by the way, the GamePass bundle and stuff, super smart, tons of value. It's sort of obvious. You're like, wait, I get all these games and I get all that. Yeah, I'm in. $130, fine, I'm in. The third skew, which is sort of kind of where Google has an advantage. I'm wondering how Microsoft solves for this. Can't, didn't they say that if you have Chromecast on your TV, Chromecast on your TV, right?

You just buy the controller. Yeah, yeah. Which, how does Microsoft bridge that gap? Do they use Chromecast? I don't know. Like, in other words, can Microsoft have it, because we live in a world where TV's now just are bundled with Android. Apps and stuff, yeah. Android in particular.

They're not bundled with Windows. So that is a skew that I'm seeing. That would be the worst TV? What? That would be the worst. No, Android TV? No, Windows. Oh, with Windows.

Yeah. I don't think that's where it's moving. My point is how do they solve for that? No, I think that's what's so fascinating about this race, is that they're on two different sides of this field. Where it is, I can, I see, I think Microsoft's going to come out strong. I don't think everything we're predicting is going to happen, but I think they're going to come out and capitalize on all this thing,

and they're going to be ready and they're going to be a gamer's machine, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they're going to give you a compelling reason why they believe in streaming and why you should too, and hey, look at all the games you have and we'll have going forward. Me on the other side, Google's argument's going to be, hey we don't have that many games but you can play this on anything like there's no the browser window the chrome cast the thing you just buy the controller and you're ready to go whereas Microsoft is going to be in a different boat of how are they getting whatever the scarlet app is that going to be

on switch awesome is it going to be they'll have a PC app for it sure but well yeah how do you get it to tv how do you make it easy and i think you're going to it'll be from there if google's committed and google can make it work then it's going to be this back and forth for a while of who wins that the end because the way Google wins this is the first time. Spoilers. Nintendo always wins. The way Google wins this is the first time they put out the Jade Raymond's whatever exclusive, here it is, and you go and you buy it and you're like, oh, that was easy.

Oh, and it works. That's awesome. And I get to play it anywhere. And I don't need to worry about it. The thing is that's probably never going to happen. Because the last tech company to say, hey, look, we're investing a bunch of money in video games about four or five years ago was Amazon. How many Amazon games studios, games have you guys played?

in the past five years. I think these tech companies have billions of dollars and a lot of issues because they have so many people, they have so many tentacles, they have so many arms that have to communicate with one another. It can be very, very hard. I mean, it's hard enough for like an experienced game company to make AAA quality games in a reasonable amount of time.

There's a lot of barriers. A hundred percent. So I am extremely skeptical. I think this Google thing will probably fizzle out and they will probably shut it down the way they have Google Plus and Google Wave at Google Reader and Google Hangouts in. Well, do you think that's the bureaucracy of it of that they have people they bring in

that are passionate and have an idea, but then the overarching or, you know, the overarching of, not I'm trying to say, of Google in general, right? Yeah, well, but it's not just that. I mean, like, just the idea of making games, like making games is really, really difficult. Running studios. Jade Raymond was running EA motive, and Jade is great. She's a super talented person, but what is E.A. motive made, like Battlefront 2's campaign. That is it and since it was founded in 2013, 2014, they've been working on this new IP that,

from what I've heard, is still pretty early. So we're talking about something that is extremely difficult, even by the most talented experience companies. Now Google is trying to recruit a bunch of people and stick them together and make it work, which itself is like even if you're poaching the most talented people across the industry, that isn't always going to work. In fact, most of the time it's not going to work because these people will butt heads. they will not have the chemistry that is needed to make really good video games.

It's going to be like a very, very, very, like, Sisyphian uphill battle for this. That's why it goes back to the conference because it sets the stage, which is at the end of the day, I appreciate that they put out, you know, the CEO of Google out there to say, look, we're super behind this. But I felt like that's what they're going to have to deal with every day is that structure until it's Phil at the beginning of that conference or it's the directors that work at stadium, all that. I think there's,

we've seen Microsoft go through this. We've seen everybody. But the short of it for me was I'm super excited that it's happening. And again, if they can just get something like, even like a game like Ori or even just older games that they've licensed, like maybe Cuphead, whatever. And if you can just log out and play that instantaneously and jump,

like I think that's where there's going to be some really cool stuff happening. But I will say Xbox is still in a really unique, strong position. Yeah, 100%. Because this is where that we're all wondering about Sony. Like we said in the ivory tower, Microsoft is bringing the same type of thing that Google brings. I mean, they've been doing it longer than Google. They have so many servers. They have Azure.

What is it called again? I say Azure, but I get yelled at all the time. It's not Azure. It's the other way. Anyway, they have, they know how to run servers. It's literally like a huge backbone, literally of all their stuff. So they're in a great position. And then the last point I was making back to the skews is if you think about it and what you guys are talking about, it's still interesting because even if you want to play on your TV, you can't.

plug in your Xbox controller. So you're going to have to buy something no matter what on your TV. So you're already 60, 70 bucks in. So if Microsoft can do what we're talking about, I mean, right, the decision you're going to have to make is a studio that has tons of experience. Like you're talking about all these games, buying with all developers. They're in a really good spot. So either way, I'm excited about Stadio, like I said, because even if it does, let's say, six things that are interesting and fizzles out like you're saying, Jason, they will have pushed the industry forward. They're already pushing it forward. Yeah, 100%. And I think that's for freaking awesome that they're willing to do that.

I mean, it takes time to build this. Xbox didn't get it right. I think the fact that Google and Microsoft are doing this at the same time is a great thing because if it was just one of them, I think it would be easier to dismiss it. And I think now it is enough people are taking notice of it. And it is going to be it launches and there's latency and people need to figure it out and blah, blah, blah. And it'll be interesting to see them each push each other further to try to do it until

Google fizzles out or whatever happens. I can't wait to see what Microsoft has. Oh, E3? I can't wait for it. I'm so hype for the 3 press conference. I can't wait to see what they have. You know, Stady announced all this. They're like, yeah, we got that.

We got that. Oh, but game pass. Oh, and we have that. Will it become that? And then now Stady has the answer back. I mean, honestly, I feel like that. I think they're getting to a point that they have the ammunition to have like a PlayStation 4 press conference where PlayStation 4 like just beat the shit out of my Xbox

one. Remember that with like the here's how you share games and the place was uproias. I do see them being like, guess what? you need five megabits per second and the way we figured it out to get whatever quality, not 4K. But God, I fucking hope. I just,

I still don't have that faith in them. Because I feel like at the end of the day, it's all about the games. And that's the thing is we always say that. It's like, I feel like they're going to kill it from the tech perspective. And yes,

they are going to have, yeah. Okay, I think you're going to have a lot of like fuck you moments at the press conference that are like really cool and it feels like there's like a fun rivalry going on.

But like, where are the exclusives? Like, then I don't think that we're going to get them. From Microsoft? Yeah. I mean, I think we're going to go through what we've had to go through with Sony, though. There's a waiting period on like, what is this new franchise?

Show me. You have to show me. I think you're going to get a lot of, not a lot. I mean, you're going to get teaser trailers from these first parties of what they're working on, and why you should be excited. Microsoft's exclusives aren't exclusive because they're all on PC. Sure. And now they're going to be on everything. If Microsoft puts GamePass on everything, then it's like, yeah.

I mean, I can't, I don't know why people will want to buy the high-end Microsoft console because if you're going to invest that much, Well, first of all, if you have the means, you would do a PC. But second of all, that Sony's, like, track record of first-party games is so much stronger than Microsoft's that. Unless you're already in the camp of, like, Team Xbox, like, Scorpio symbol on your Twitter handle. Like, why would you invest in that? Why would you invest in Xbox Scarlet? Just because you want the highest quality.

Because, for me, as an example, it's like, I've switched over entirely for third-party games to Xbox 1-X because I want the best thing possible, right? Yeah. You are that market. And I am that market for that. But if you want it the best thing possibly, you'd buy a PC. Yeah, but he's not a huge fucking dork. But it's like to play on my TV. Like I have a great TV.

Nobody wants that. Bar-an-en-in-in-show. Meaning, I love PC. I'm the PC guy here. I love it. Meaning when it crashes, when you have to reinstall your drivers. Dude, it's simple when you deal with it every day. I'm a PC gamer, but like I know folks like Tim,

they don't want to deal with. They're like, what? You want me to... No, don't get me wrong. I'm down for the PC gaming. deal. I am equal about issues on my stupid-ass consoles.

I think this number, the number of people like you, I think is shrinking. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah. I think the more tech savvy people get, the more they're like, wait a minute,

why am I buying an Xbox every four or five years? Because good enough is good enough? My graphics card on my rig and like playing everything there and also all the exclusives that are there and also like using it for all these different things.

But if you had to guess inventory of, okay, people who buy PC to hook up their TVs, people who buy consoles to hook up their TVs, and people who are willing to deal with fidelity from a cloud streaming to their TV, where do you think most people would, you know,

how would you rate those? Well, nowadays, most people are in the console camp. But I think that's in large part because of the games you can only get on your console. And that's why, I mean, that's why the PS4 is like outsold the Xbox by ridiculous, exponential numbers, because people know that they can't play Spider-Man or God of Orr, last year's consensus game of the year

on the Xbox or on the PC or on anything else. It just makes no sense to me. The strategy that Microsoft is doing, of like all props to Phil Spencer for wanting to put his stuff on everything. But that to me kills the idea of like I would never want a high-end Xbox. Like I would just play on my PC and get a PlayStation because... That is what I'm doing right now. Exactly.

That's what I think a lot of people who care about high-end graphics and frame rate especially are doing. It's different when it's a console launch though, but I have 100% agreement with you. And I think to keep it simple. It goes back to what Tim said. It is still about the games man. I mean, you switch, Breath of the Wild. Mario, like, plus everything that's come after has been incredible.

I would have never guessed that it would be what it is today, you know, when I heard they were going to release something like that. Like they just, the games, you have to play those games. And certainly with PlayStation, we saw that. It just completely eclipsed everything with the quality of the games. And Stady has nothing like that on the docket yet. We'll see. And that takes sometimes we're talking about five years. Like, when did they start this last year?

Like, right, it talked to Cory Barlog about how hard it was to develop God of War. Like it doesn't just. His whole career built to that. You talk to a competent developer, they'll tell you. Greg and I talked about this a bit on some show recently, but I think in the same way, I just said, like, I play third-party games on Xbox because I want the best experience, whatever the hell.

It's like, I feel like there's certain games they play on Switch over other things because the portability is what matters to me. And I think that the Stadia gives us another option where it's like there are going to be games and experiences, specifically third-party titles, that I'm like, I don't need the highest-end thing. I'm willing to give that up because I'll be able to play at any And I think the most exciting thing about Stadia is that we don't know this yet, but it might not be that big of an investment up front.

So it's like I can just dabble for the games that I want and I don't need to invest in a system. Yeah. No, and I think that's a $80 for the controller is a safe bet. And I think that's excited. But the point of- If you don't need the controller, if you can use another controller, you know. You can't on your TV? I'm saying that's for the controller, $60 to $80 for the Stadia controller.

I think it's a safe bet. Yeah, but if you can use another controller, it's not that one. But you have to own the TV. Yeah. Yeah, but on the PC you don't need that. No, on PC, exactly, which is they hook a PC up. Right, yeah. Yeah, wow.

Good idea. Yeah, that's the other thing. It's like if you're a gamer who can only afford to pay $400 for a console and there are a lot of people out there, you can spend $400 on like a mid-level rig, even buy it of the store if you don't feel like building it. And then you can do Google Stadia on that. Did they say you could download the games though? No, you have to stream them.

No, they said you cannot. Phil Harrison told me you cannot download Stadia games. You have to stream it. No, it's not an option. It's too small niche. Yes. You have to stream them. Well, what I wanted to point out when I was building here is 100% is about the game.

So I think it's easy to get sidetrack about new tech and instantly jump in the game. But let's face it. I don't, I usually start at the beginning of the game. Like, I don't, that's really cool in all. And we'll see what we can do. Unless you get really stuck on Bloodborn. I could meet this boss. Yeah, jump into the middle of Celeste and see how that works for you.

But what I wanted to go back to is what I said earlier. It is easy to visual. this concept of playing 4K or 1080p 60. Guess what? It's an encoded video signal. First of all, there's a leg, but second of all, there's the fidelity. And that's where I will side with Tim,

is not to be underestim, not to underestimate how much we do love awesome visuals. And when that stuff starts coming through with any encoding issues, this is like, what is it? Is it X264? Is it H265? It's not your GPU anymore.

It's a video, you're watching YouTube when you're playing games from now on at 25 megabits a second. That's the difference. And most people are going to be okay with that. And a ton of people will. And so the last caveat I throw out is, yes, imagine, you know, we talk about when Switch launched $2 million out the gate or what you're like, wow.

And then look at what Apex did. Within like a few weeks, 50 million people, that's the potential that these platforms have. You're right. Maybe the 2 million people like us really care about the fidelity. What about the other 48 million people? You know what? I'm fine with it. I think those people download at Apex for free and can't download Stadia for free.

unless they have a specific setup. That's a good point. I think for me, even being one of the two million, whatever, that cares about that stuff, it hits a certain point when it's ease of use where I stop caring. When I want to watch a movie, I buy the 4K Blu-ray from Amazon, and I wait to get it because I want that experience. Like when I want to watch Infinity War again, I want that. I want it to be the best it can possibly be.

When I'm just watching some other stuff, like let's say Mission Impossible, right? Like we were doing in review, I don't need to buy the 4K Blu-ray of that. I'm okay watching it in 4K or whatever, digitally where I know there's going to be compression on stuff. But it's like it's easy of use of just clicking and getting it. I feel like once that is true for video games to people, it's like there's going to be such a huge market of people where good enough's good enough. And hey, better than good enough is great.

They don't need the best. They just need something that works and is instant. And I'm agreeing with that. That's what I'm saying. The market potential for this is monstrous. I mean, people've been chasing it for over a decade, right? On Live tried to do it. Guy Kai, which turned into what?

PlayStation. Yeah. The laundry list of just like, yeah, really good moves. The bodies are everywhere. It's right. But it's, we're finally getting to the start of it, which is so exciting. And really, despite the criticism and skepticism, props to Google for coming out with this.

And like, again, like maybe it's October this year and we're playing, probably not going to be playing Xbox. We might be playing a game on Stadia, just, you know, just the controller that's like some amazing experience, hop right in, which they'll be the first out the gate. And then two years later, you're going to get an email and it'll be like, Google Stavia, remember to back home. your data because it's close. I'm actually not really skeptical about this one.

I get the skepticism for sure, but I also do think that it's, I think it's gonna be different than a Google play. It's because of Google's track record. Xbox has proven that they will stick with this. I mean, think back to when they announced YouTube gaming and we're like, fuck, Twitch is in trouble. Oh my god, Twitch isn't really doing anything. They're, and like just didn't matter. Yeah, I was like, oh wow, okay. So the other part of this, there are a few other parts of this equation that I find interesting.

find interesting one is speaking of YouTube the fact that uh these guys have done such a terrible job moderating youtube as a platform to the point where like parents can't put their kids on it because they'll be like shown some neo-nazies stuff or conspiracy theory stuff is terrifying for the thought of like this also being for kids like browsing YouTube and do we have any sign at all that they'll care about moderating that community the stadia community the other thing that always comes to mind is uh the fact that a lot of people care about ownership digital ownership and it's one thing. I think a lot of people have accepted the idea that like,

okay, I'm going to buy this switch game on the e-shop, download it to my system. It'll exist. Maybe if I lose the hard drive, I might not be able to download it again. I don't know. But that's been accepted. Are people really going to accept

I'm going to spend however much on this thing, whether it's all a card or a subscription, and never own any of it. And if Google decides, like, oh, not enough people are playing Jack and Daxor or whatever. That's not a good idea. Not enough people are playing Tomb Raider, the original 2014-13 Tomb Raider.

we are just going to pull the plug on those servers so we do not want to support that one anymore like what do you do and so there are a ton of reasons to be skeptical of Google city and I think Netflix is an example that Spotify is so much different because Netflix you're not investing in a game for like that you want to be able to replay that you're like spending 60 bucks on that you want to

and I'm envisioning a situation where Google charges all the cart because I think they're going to do at least some of that because otherwise the likes of Bethesda and Ubisoft would not put their games on launch on this platform if they weren't getting enough money. By the way, that's another thing that I've heard is concerned about how developers will be paid by this. Google eats the cost, though. Epic's doing it right now?

I don't know if they would do that. I mean, I have a feeling that you'll have to buy at least some games, and that'll make a big difference. And also, like, Netflix, I mean, you watch a movie at night and then you, like, turn off your thing, and then, like, you don't have to worry about owning it. and if you really want to rewatch something over and over again and have it permanent, you buy the DVD or whatever. But with games, it's a different beast.

Like sometimes you want to go open up your PlayStation 4 or whatever and be like, oh, I bought Bloodborn a few years ago but never really got into it. I should go check that out. And if Google's service is like a rotating thing or if it's like they're all sorts of potential. It's vaulted, who knows, yeah. So it's on Google Wave.

This is just like the tip of the iceberg for reasons to be skeptical. That's a really good point. I didn't think about that. Sure, there might be. be some subscription, but you're right, that Xbox went through it too. It's like, wait, am I going to own it or not? Right. And gamers do really care about that.

I mean, like, even taking away the ownership or that thing, right, like, it's just, think about the backlash we continue to see about always online, right? That is the thing. And like, people flip out about that. That was one of the reasons they hated the Epic store so much at launch. One of the reasons they revolted against Xbox one originally. Like, the idea of, yeah, you get this streaming thing. And yeah, I paid $60 for this play, so I can play anywhere, but I can't play it on a

plane or if I don't have this connection or if I know of that, like is whatever Xbox's streaming service, like if it plays in, if it is game pass like, am I able to download stuff and have it and do whatever? It's funny that, like, yeah, I got it, but it just resonated too. Wait, I can't freaking play these games on the plane. Yeah. Why not? That doesn't make any sense.

You've got to fix that. Come on. Well, how are they going to fix it? How are they going to put on your phone? But you can't definitely. You can't download it to a phone. The Google has made it. There's no GPU.

There is on your phone. your phone. Not a good enough one to play. How many Terra Flops do you on that phone? Fuck off. Do you remember all the rumors that like Google was making a high-end console, all that shit? They are way, like none of that was ever true. They are interested in making this platform. It's a streaming platform. That's the end of it.

Yeah. And you know what's interesting is if you were to probably dissect, what are Google's ultimate goals? Because making games to sell ads to somebody. There you go. Why, how are they going to do it? Made ads probably and then getting you to sign up for, I assume, Gmail account and through those two things. Well, already you have YouTube attached

do it. And YouTube, yeah. I passed a booth. So at GDC there's a whole Google setup and they have these little monitors that are showing like different slogans that are catered to developers. So it's like here's the cool feature you can get. Here's the other thing we're doing. Blah blah, blah, blah. One of them is like monetizing your game on Google Sadia. Oh, did they talk about it? What a bad name. No, it didn't get into details. It's like, it just says like we will have add options available. And yeah, it was, it's like hinting at that fact, we know is always going to be the case. And then also, like, does anyone trust Google to, like, be responsible with their personal data at this point? I mean, that's like a lesser concern,

but it's still a concern for a lot of people, especially after what's been happening with Facebook over the years, the number of controversies. So, yes, as you can tell, I'm skeptical. That's very good points. Still exciting that they're doing it. It is. And you can't wait to see. Oh, I can't wait to see it. The newness of it all is exciting. At the ultimate, that's where I come. with this is like it's R&D at a minimum and it's awesome that it's happening. I'm excited. It's happening now?

Yeah. This year, 2019. Exactly. It'll all be out there at least. No more waiting. Happening and we'll be able to play it. Whether it's a handful of stuff or not. So I'm just super excited on that front.

Wait and see. A couple of random questions for you guys. Reggie, you would jokingly brought up when he said that he was leaving Nintendo that you think he might be going to Google. You still think that that's possible. No, that was just a joke. He really retired. Yeah, I think he's really retired.

He's limited. How long he'll stay retired, who knows? I think he's okay. I think he's financially he's doing okay. He doesn't need to take that Google money. But he's sick of seeing these Bowser headlines, you know? They shake things up. See how Doug Bowser does.

And then just the Microsoft Nintendo side of things. Like, Shriar, where do you see this going in the immediate future? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I can't confirm origin. I have a Xbox game pass on Switch. Rumors I just don't know enough other than... Sound like you do. Yeah, I mean, I heard from one person who might know

that it wasn't happening. So I don't know. I don't know. That doesn't mean like just because someone says something isn't happening. They might not know and there are a lot of moving pieces here, right?

If that happened, that would be incredibly cool. That would have to be streaming on the Switch, which would be really, really interesting. And streaming on the switch through Xbox Game Pass

is a lot more compelling to me than anything Google is doing. Yeah. What do you think? So now with Cup in here, what do you think that means for the likes of the Ori? Oh yeah. I think that's clear.

Well, they announce Ori is definitely coming to the Switch. That's not even a question. They already did. Hellblade Cuphead I'm sure we'll see more Maybe not Halo Infinite

But I'm sure we'll see more something Do you think we'll see ORI2 day and date? I don't know No idea What about Master Chief Collection? Doubt it I can't imagine that happening

But I don't know No info here Hmm Hmm What about a golden eye remake? Yes Let's go Yeah

I'm on board Too many licenses involved They don't have the The problem Yeah Didn't they announce A Battleto's remake And then we never saw it

and all. They're working hard on it. They're working hard on it. Yeah. Well, so that could totally come to switching. You'd be like, hey, remember it was on Nintendo. So it's on your favorite problem. And then Rear Replay.

Rare Replay would be great. The problem with it, though, is a lot of that was Xbox 360 backwards compatibility stuff. So I don't think that that would work. Streaming. So yeah. So, yeah. So, or like, piecemeal where it wouldn't be the whole thing. But you can download.

That would be very Nintendo. Perfect Dark or Banjo or whatever on Switch. Just so I understand, too, the concept here. You're talking about streaming. game pass. No, I'm talking about games coming to Switch. Similar to Cupback,

you're talking about a native switch. You buy them on Switch. That's right. Not any of this working Yeah, I think what'll happen

is Banjo Kizui will be announced for Smash Brothers and then attached to that it'll be like, hey, and maybe we're putting Benzo, Banjo Kizui

on the Switch. I think that would make sense. That would make logical sense. Good job. I love it so much. You know what else makes logical sense.

Persona 5 on Switch. Let's go. Oh yeah. Let's go. Let's go. Come on. Jason, let it happen. I don't know about that one.

I don't know. He does his own PR. I love it. No, I really. I'm skeptical. Well, you understand that Jason is an adult. If he says something may or may not happen, it's not like when we're just fucking spaghetti at the wall,

talking about our hopes and dreams. That one, I mean, I would lean, if you ask me, like, which way are you leaning? I can't say it's 100% certainty, but based on the things that I've heard, I would lean towards a no. At least right now. It's always hard to say, man.

It's always hard to say, notice something because so much can change. But at least right now, like the remake they announced in Japan, I would guess, educated guess, I would say, that it's PS4 only. Dude, it's also tough when you have a job like yours where you're reporting all of this stuff is that

you don't want to be wrong with stuff. It's like people give you crap then against your rumor reporting and it's like, there's a lot of factors. It's very transparent about whether I know something for sure. You wait until you know, exactly. Because anytime you speculate it, it suddenly adds, you know, this credibility problem. I mean, I get it. I get it. It was funny.

On last year's show, actually. I think the rumor had just come out that modern warfare remaster two wouldn't have a single player campaign and I think I said on the show I was like oh yeah that's true. And then everyone I got a little bit of flack because that never actually came out. Now it's very clearly

coming out for this fall. So that'll be interesting to see. You get your come up and say. Yeah. I was right. Yeah. Yeah. I could see them doing like a remaster package with the new Call of Duty. Three guesses what that is, right? Jason, where could people

find you. Kataku split screen. That's my podcast. You should check it out. We got a lot of cool stuff this week, a lot of interviews. We got Phil Harrison. We got Tim Schaefer. We got a lot of cool devs that you might not have heard of, but we have many interesting things to say. And I strongly

recommend you go and check that out if you like podcasts. And you do. There's no way you made it this deep end. Exactly. I hate podcasts. Unless you were skipping ahead to see what I would plug. Well, thank you very much for

joining us. I'm just going to go to my bed and fall asleep forever because I am dead. For those of you who are tuned in late, I have food poisoning that's really bad right now, which is like it's push through. I can't really be as good as shaving. Yeah, well, well, we'll see how good.

It's like, well, well, the lift home might be a disaster. We'll see how much. All right. Well, now we're going to get to the post show. But ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us here. And for those of you that are not Patreon supporters. We'll see you tomorrow.

Twitch.com. 20 games 10 a.m. Bye.