Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - So You've Been Laid Off (Games Media Ed.) - Kinda Funny Gamescast

Episode Date: January 21, 2026

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Go to boot.dev and use code Kind of Funny to get 25% off your first year on the annual plan. If you want to get our shows ad free and our exclusive shows, go to patreon.com slash Kind of Funny. What's up everybody? Welcome to the Kind of Funny Games cast for Wednesday, January 21st, 2026. I'm one of your host, Greg Miller, alongside writer, editor, video host. Matt Kim.

Hi. Hi. Matt, you just came off a stunning kind of funny games daily. Great job. It was really good show. I really enjoyed it. I'm glad we finally got to do this. Like you said on that show,

I've been trying to get you on the show for years and years and years. Then you moved away. Then you moved away. Then you moved back. Exciting for me. Yeah, exactly. Specifically for this.

Just for this. No, of course. Matt, if somebody doesn't know, you worked at IGN for six years, more than six years. Yeah,

a little over six years. Yeah, yeah, and then you got laid off over the summer. Yes. As part of the changes at IGN. And there's a lot of that happening in the industry. A lot of changes in the industry, whether it be developers or games media.

So I figured when you were in, I was like, why not do an episode? So you've been laid it off, games media edition. Everybody, if you didn't know, this is the Kind of Funny Games cast. We talk about the biggest topics in video games, each and every weekday, live on Twitch. dot TV slash Kind of Funny Games, YouTube.com slash Kind of Funny Games, podcast services around the globe. If you are watching live and have a question about what it's like in the games industry right now, if you should get into it, anything under the Games Media Sun, super chat it as we're live,

YouTube.com slash kind of funny games. Thank you because, of course, we couldn't be part of the games media if it wasn't for our Patreon producers over on patreon.com slash kind of funny Carl Jacobs, Omega Buster and Delaney the Somm twining. You're the best. For now, let's begin with what is and forever

will be topic of the show. So you've been laid off Games Media Edition. Yes. Where do you want to start, Matt? I guess the most important thing, Matt Kim. We'll start with the headline part of it. Okay. So you've been laid off.

Yeah. I want to know what that moment was like. And then I want to talk about how you got to that moment, what your, what your path to the games media and IGN was. Okay. But take me back to August, July. August, yeah. A normal L.A. day.

It's smoggy. Will Smith drives by. You're out there just doing the damn thing. It was a beautiful L.A. day. I do remember this. The wasn't. Do you really? I don't know how much.

I don't know how much actually I can actually share about the actual. To be clear, we're not trying to get in trouble. We're not looking for dirt. But I think for anybody who's ever been laid off from a corporate setting, I think it's very much like exactly that, right? You wake up a mysterious meeting appears on your calendar. You hop in for a meeting. You get some bad news.

All your accounts are immediately shut off. You're locked out of everything. And then you're just sort of, you know, it's like that Simpsons joke where millhouse's dad gets fired right it's like you know that's it good luck and goodbye I don't remember saying good luck no they were kind they did say good luck so I did get that and but then yeah and then then then you just have the whole day for yourself and then you then the day days turn into weeks and turns into months and then it's been but like like I said I think I announced this on LinkedIn I have a of a very supportive girlfriend and she gave me a lot of like flexibility to sort of not immediately go into panic mode

just jump into the first job you could. Yeah. It was just super nice. And then we moved, right? And so then we moved up here. And so then a lot of the like the post layoff time was taken up by packing up our apartment in LA and then moving all up here and then unpacking. So it's as far as, yeah, as far as it's been, it's been kind of a whirlwind couple of months. And then this January really feels like the first sort of like, okay, let's, you know, let's buckle down.

Let's go out there and let's see what's out there. And it worked right. That's what got you in the show. You put up on LinkedIn following my layoff from IG. And late last year, I found myself in an end. in a fortunate position where I didn't immediately have to go find work. Now after a short break and a move back to the Bay Area from L.A., I'm ready to head into the new year, ready for my next opportunity.

So if you're looking for an award-winning writer, editor, media specialist, and editorial strategist, check on my portfolio and let's talk. Well written. You're good writer. Yeah, that's what my services are for. Here's my one question before I want to rewind Tom and everything. Did you expect it? Had there been rumblings?

Because as somebody who lived through IG and layoffs and stuff, there was only one time ever, I remember and it was Scott Bromley who called it the night before he was like I'm getting laid off tomorrow and Colin was like what are you talking about? And then it happened. No, I definitely don't remember

thinking that it was going to happen and I definitely don't think it's going to happen to you right? But like at the same time. And to full stop you again, and we're not this business is our businesses and we have so many friends who still work at IG and yet yet. If you were to say there's IG and layoffs tomorrow who's going to go, I would not have said Matt Kim.

Your name was all over the site. You had so many bylines. You wrote all. the time. But like all my colleagues, no one deserved to get laid off, right? It was like, it was, I believe, eight of us on the editorial team. And it was like, it was just it, I can't speculate as to why. Of course.

I don't know how it happened, but, you know, none of us deserve to get laid off. It was, it was bad all around. I think looking back in hindsight, you're kind of like, well, IG has been doing sort of like small layoffs like over the past like three years, like annually, you know? And so I guess if you're looking at that way, you're like, well, I guess, yeah, that's been part of the pattern. But I think I definitely didn't wake up that day being like, I'm going to get laid off.

Final day. Stretch it out. Okay. So then rewind time from you, man. For you, how does this journey begin? This journey begins after college when I one day see a, and I had blogged about games throughout college. So I was always just like noodling words about games. And then I've done like some like work for.

other from like small indie sites where I got no money and things like that but that was like college stuff and one day after college I actually see a job listing for a writer position for a website called Inverse back when they were still a startup sure and they weren't looking for a games right they were looking for like an entertainment culture writer so I actually began my career covering like Hollywood in L.A like I went to like I interviewed like movie people and and talked about like TV shows and things like that and so that was sort of my start were you based in Hollywood I was based in L.A yeah And so that's sort of like, that gave me that, like, I think because the inverse was, I think, primarily in New York, but they need an LA guy. And I just have to fill that.

Okay. Yeah. So I fill that role for them. And then, yeah. What years is, is it? 2015. Okay. Yeah.

2015, 2016, I think. And then, yeah, that was like my full time, like my first, like, it wasn't a full-time writing gig, but it was like, it was enough that I was able to quit my part-time cash register job. Oh. Yeah. Where were you ringing people like? DISO. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Which was really fun. And then, really enjoyed it. but then yeah and so like like i wrote about i wrote about like uh movies and tvs and comics and like personal finance like all sorts of different things uh and what was your degree in what did you go to college i went to i got a degree in history oh yeah okay uh i mean but like like okay so i've been explaining this but like history is just you read thousands of books and you collect millions of little data points and then you you you bring it all together

yeah jumble them into a into a story that makes sense for people and so like no Not unlike journalism. 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had a, I think I had more fun in history than I would in a journalism classroom, I would say. But no, but it is...

It is important to get journalism training. My first editors at Inverse were actual, like, were like journalism trained editors. Sure. And they showed me the ropes and they taught me like the basics and all the, all the, like, important parts. And so you do need a journalism, like,

training and experience to do journalism. Okay, okay. We'll get to all that. I know the amount of questions. I get. And I think that's one of the reasons I want to do this with you. The amount of questions I get of, how do you do it? What about this? Am I too old? Is there enough room anymore? I always give these answers on Greg Ways and whatever and I'm confident in them. But I also, I'm always like, remember it's been 20 years since I was on the outside. Like I left IG and started my own thing. So I'm, I see things, but I don't know what the day to day is anymore. But we'll get to all that. We'll get to all that. So you're doing inverse for a while. Do an inverse for a while, then I move up to SF, and then I get it.

What brought you to SF? Inverse did have an SF office, and so I thought, but it was little to my knowledge. It was mostly just like the tech and engineering side of there. I kind of thought there would be, I don't know, I thought maybe I move up there and I can do some like, you know, start up a beach front in the West Coast. But instead, that didn't happen. But I did get an opportunity to go into games starting full time when Kat Bailey reached out to me and was like, hey, you want to join U.S. Gamer. We love Kat Bailey here. We love Kat Bailey here.

You want to join U.S. Gamer as my news editor. And I said, yes. And so I did that for three years. Okay, okay. At in San Francisco. And then, which I'm super proud of the work that I did there, and it was wonderful working for them. And then I got another call out of the blue from Tina Amini, who was a EIC at IGN at the time. And she said, hey, I really like your work.

How about you join me at IGN? And I said, well, look, I love U.S. gamer, but also like IGN is calling. Yeah, yeah, you got to go. You got to go. That's the big league. Yeah. And then I said, yes. And then that was my last like.

six years. And so when they bring you in, is it straight to the news team? Like I, you know, this is also the thing of like when people ask me even how IGN works. I'm like, I don't know. I stopped. You know, 2015 is where it ends for me of what it's like to be in the bullpen anymore. Yeah, no, it definitely. I was hired as a news reporter and I, because I was doing news at US Gamer.

And so Tina reached out to me and for specifically the news work that I was doing. So yeah, I joined immediately into the into the news team and just and started getting. to work there on the new side of things. And from what I hear, I did a lot of good work, and you guys sided me. You did. You were frequent on kind of funny games daily. I really appreciate it.

Back to the point where I was like, Matt got laid off, Matt got laid off. We hear him all the time. I know. So then we get caught up. Yeah. Layoff happens. You have this runway to figure out what you want to do or think, to breathe for a second. Is there a part of you that looks at the landscape?

and goes, I gotta get the fuck out of this. Oh, man. I'm gonna go back to Dyso. Like, I would love, Dyso was a real steady and good employment, good employment opportunity. No shame on Dyso. One of great to, no, it's, yeah, it's one of those things where, like, it's, it's, um, yeah, it's like, I think,

and you know, and this is, just to highlight some of the stuff that's been happening, but I think, like, uh, diverge and inverse also underwent some games, games video layoffs recently. So it's just, it's, it is bad out there. It's hard out there. and I think I made a post on Blue Sky where I was like, you know, B-S-Tam.

Survived till 25 became wait till 28, you know? And it's, yeah, so it's one of those things where like I love, I love working in a newsroom. I love the media industry and I want a strong, like, publications, like I want lots of publications. I want there to be as many magazines and websites as there possibly can. 100%. That can all, like, cover.

Because there's, and that was one of the things that you feel happened around you while I was at IGN is that like when we were at IGN like all these sites started closing down right and suddenly and while on the one hand you're like oh well now I'm busier than ever but on the other hand like I should not have to we should not be as IGN doing the work of like five other websites you know 100% it is it is tough it's and it's not just games media it's like entertainment media and it's also the regular media well I mean you know the headline I put in right you know so you've been laid off whatever parentheses games media because, of course, there's the game developer side

where this continues to happen all the time too. And what's shocking for me being so old and having done this for so long is seeing the layoffs evolve. Because when I was in my younger days at IGN, right? And so I'm thinking, I mean, I can picture my old hutch. So I'm still thinking of the 2009 when we're in the old studio before moving downtown

to the IGN's amazing space that they had. 22010, but it was that layoffs weren't business motivated like they are now of stock prices that they were motivated of fact of okay, cool, it's time to finish our game. So we're ramping up the team. We're bringing on contractors or we're bringing on people that we say are going to be full time. And then as soon as the game launches, we don't have to worry about DLC and patches and all the ongoing shit you have to worry about now. So we're going to lay off dozens of people who were there that made it got us to launch. And so teams would have the core. studio that you would then glom onto for lead up and then lose it all, shed it,

and then bring them back as you leave pre-production on the next project. And that is what the layoff cycle was. Right. And it sucked. And everybody hated it and wanted it fixed and wanted to figure out a way to be sustainable. So you could live in a, again, you're making people move at the time. Yeah. Even back then to tear up their lives to go be part of these things.

And now, of course, it is. Let's get everything as a game as a service. Let's get everything as a live service. Let's get a battle pass in there. Let's do this. It's an incredible contradiction that there are probably more games being. made at any time in human history now and yet there are like constant layoffs

everywhere in terms of like people who get to make them right and it's and it's and that's just the current mindset where the people all the way at the top believe that they can make a thing just as good as anyone else with fewer and fewer people you know and that's true for games and that's true for publications you know and it's just

yeah and it's bad that's my that's my hot take is that but you haven't you haven't been shaken you're committed you're not going to go anywhere else to media yeah I mean, no, hold on, never say never. Never say never on that one.

I mean, it's one of those things where, like, I would like to say in media, but like I'm in, like, I'm, I look around. I'm on the, I'm on the, I'm on an earnest job hunt right now, and there are just no media jobs. There are no media jobs that I, and the few that there are, I am applying to. But like, I, like, it's one of those things where, like, it's like, media, you know, a lot of people are looking for, like, for people with my skill sets in terms of people who can write stories.

Just, they want you to write stories for their brand. And I'm happy to do so. And I would be happy to lend my skills doing that for companies, for outlets, for anywhere. But I do like writing, you know. So I just want to keep, you know, keep doing that. And not having to learn cashiering again. It's so different now. The tap to pay.

It's very, you know what I mean? I don't, the one thing, because I'm a former cashier as well from Walmart, you know what I mean? And I just feel like nowadays it might be more fun. because nobody uses cash. And remember in the old days when it would be the thing of like, hey, I'm giving, I ring you up and then I say this is how much.

And then they handed me money and then they would give me the change. Where they're like, now add that in. I'm like, I can't do that, sir, I'm stupid.

Like I don't, do I give you more? Do I take less? I don't know what is. Lots of super chats, lots of stuff coming in from kind of funny folks. Kobe aren't super chats,

just like you can on YouTube. com slash kind of funny games. It says, the games industry has been operating in an all-time high. And much of games marketing relies on games media. Why then is games media being impacted

when it's so crucial to the business, Matt? That is a million dollar question, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, right? Because now, like, we are effectively, we do effectively highlight the small, like, that's why people want IGN and GameSpot and Polygons around is that

there's only so much like an in-house, you know, PR team can do and we have all these platforms with YouTube channels and Twitter account, accounts with millions of followers that if they can get coverage on one of our sites, it blows up, right? And that is a genuinely useful and enviable thing to be able to do. And that's something that we want to do. If we see something cool that we're like, this is from a small team or this is from a team that doesn't have the GTA 6 budget that can automatically

just, you know, show up a little logo and immediately get 100 million views, right? Like, that's what that's our passion. That is what we want to do. And the fact that is being cut down is above my pay rate. Yeah, I mean, why is games media being impacted when it's so crucial to the business? There's the doom and gloom answer to this, and then there's like the real answer. You are a person not only of a, of the, where I talk about the pie of gamers, right? And then the amount that would actually go to IGN or a website. Then we're getting down to the amount that would watch a kind of funny video.

Then we're down to you are a very special person who clicked on a headline that is not mass mainstream marketable. Right? You are here talking a very, very, very inside baseball part of the industry. So many games cast listeners saw this today and went, oh, it's not a preview or a review. I'm not going to do that, which is totally fine and understandable. So I feel like I can give you the doom and gloom answers better, right? Where it's like games media is so crucial to the business. We enthusiasts, not even press fans, the people who would listen to this kind of podcast are such a small group. Yeah.

Like we like to think that like, oh, well, the Metacritic and this. and all this really doesn't sway the masses on this giant scale. So when you're talking about why as games media being impacted the way it is, I think it's similar to what we're seeing when we just did about Ubisoft or when I rant about EA or whatever

where you get the big dot coms, the big sites, and it's not so much about the content on the site sometimes. It is about the banner ads and the eyeballs coming to the site. And so you brought up, you know, trying to spotlight a game that has a smaller reach and, you know, indie game.

Like, even for us, even for a kind of funny. A site that is so small in our community is so great. If I put up a game you've never heard of indie review, the amount of people who click on that is so small. You know what I mean? Like the fact that people weren't learning about and Roger

until Game of the Year when I talked about it and all these shows and Blessing and streamed it. It's like, well, there had been all these different avenues to get into that and talk about that, but people don't want that necessarily. So why is games media being impacted when games are at an all-time high. It's because sometimes for a lot of people, the content isn't what people care about, which is why, to your point, where I want more sites and I want to see all stuff, I love

seeing Game Informer be independent. I love seeing Giant Bomb being independent. I haven't had a talk, I have not had the chance to talk about it on content. I love seeing mothership launch. Yes. Hey, here is in, you know, this, we have a feminist perspective on gaming. We're going to come out. It's not going to be daily updates. It's going to be well thought out. And we need funding you need to pay for like yes like that's what we need to do and so games media and tell me if i'm off base because i want your opinion obviously and i'm just ranting now but it's like is in such an interesting pivot transformation that we've been going through for a while where so many people point at kind of funny like oh man you guys were ahead of the curve on patreon and this thing

and the other and we were on how we do it and now it's about things like mothership right doing it as well, and again, for them having realistic expectations of success. So it is three of us, and I don't know that. I mean, I know it, but I don't have my head of the amount of people on motherships, full-time staff. But like, there's three of us, which means we have to make this amount of money, which means anything else is gravy, we can then pay it back and pay it forward and yeah, da-da-da-da-da.

Like, that is the future of where we're at, I think, personally. No, I mean, I agree with you. I think, like, and, you know, no one's starting, no one's starting, like, like, these motherships to become, like, the next, you know, the, Michael Bloomberg, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, they want to pay their stuff. They want to make a living to do what they want to do, which is write about and cover games and cover the games that they want to cover.

And they want to be able to do it without having to worry about going into bankruptcy if they ever, like, get sick at a hospital, you know? Yeah. And I want that to be the future. I like, I think as long as the passion is there and as long as the people who have the verb to do it or are putting up, putting up these sites or, you know, I want them to succeed. I also would like some more magazines. Dude, oh my God. I, I have, you know, you're insulting it, of course, and shitting all over it. But as a journalist, right?

And a degree in magazine journalism. Like, I get so stoked now when the Game Informer hits. And me and Ben sit there and go through it and read it together and he asks questions about games. And it's like still such a callback to my life of an EGM person. You know what I mean? And like doing the Dragon Quest preview recently. I was like, oh man, I went to the EGM archive and read all the coverage they did on it back in the day that I should have read, but I didn't back then. I'm an idiot.

Like that physical form factor, I would love to figure out and crack. I would love, and I mean, this is a future that doesn't exist, I'm sure for us, but get to a point where there's enough kind of funny people that we could do a kind of funny magazine. You know, I mean, have a really fun piece like that. You know, I just, it's just, I want more and I don't think, I think there's sort of a worry. Some people say, oh, what if it gets crowded, right? I'm like, I don't know, man. And like, there's been, like, the news, the media industry was, like, so successful for, like, 200 years, you know? Like, what changed in the last, like, 30 years I made it, like, all of a sudden different?

I feel like I know an answer, but I'm not going to say it on there. Oh. Okay. Is it the bad guys? Is that the guy? I think, again, that the crowdedness of it is such an interesting question about it. Because I think, again, the kind of funnies, the giant bombs, The mothership. blog, by the way, I've never heard of this.

Go to mothership.com. Also go listen to Chris Plant's post games with Maddie. They did, and a co-founder whose name is escaping right now. They just did it last week. It was really, really good. Two weeks maybe ago. Anyways, crowdedness almost to a degree, I feel like,

is the monster in the closet that doesn't exist. And I would love to get to the point where it's so crowded that we're panicking about that. Right. Because right now it was when we started, the Patreon, I remember, what, it was two months, within six months, easy allies started. And I remember, or maybe it was Danny, but it doesn't matter.

Both of them started so soon after us. And I remember being like, all right, here, our numbers are going to dip. Our numbers are going to dip on Patreon because they're coming to Patreon. And it was the opposite, right? They brought in their fans who then we could get to convert a percentage of and vice versa. And it's the same thing now of when you're talking about, let's throw an IG in a game spot in the conversation, right? and this is maybe even Pepsi Coke's a better example of it.

There might be a crossover in those gigantic circles in the Venn diagram of people who can support both, but they pick one or the other. Yeah. When you're talking about things like us and these sites we're talking about, you're talking about very small circles. Yeah. So it's way easier to cross over and it might, it could easily be the fact that the people who support a kind of funny and a Danny don't go support a mothership, but there are

going to be that crossovers and that's a da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's, it is one of those things where like this is sort of like we're moving towards the thing that people want. in their lives, which is a greater degree of customization for what they can consume, for what they want to consume. Like, I love the work that we did. IGN is a very generalist website, right?

Like, we cover everything, you know? And so we appeal to the biggest audience as possible, right? But like a mothership does it, right? A mothership has an audience, and it's going for an audience that wants to read feminist criticism of video games, right? And that is its own separate thing. And then at the same time,

you're just like, well, let's say like, oh, you know, I'm really passionate about like, uh, feminist critique in games, right? And you can support mothership. But then you also are like, but I also really love how like games are being made by the people who make them. And then you can support like Matt Leone's, you know, right? His, his, uh, oral history program, right? And those are two separate, like, those are not competing for the same audience.

But if you happen to be interested in both things, suddenly you can now subscribe to both them separately. And that'll be your sort of like news intake. your sort of like media intake. And this is the same thing as you start spinning off of that of the Indian former with Jill, right? I mean, Janet's on everything.

Janet's an all-purpose player, right? But Penn to Pixels for Janet or any of the podcast you do or mid-max or what I mean, like there's so many ways to go. And again, it doesn't have to be you're getting the annual subscription from them. It can be you're contributing when you can or as we always talk about it.

It's the view. It's the download. It's the thing. Like everybody's trying to make it work. And so the, as the cycle of the matrix continues, right? It's that funny thing of to rewind time to when I was sitting in, you know, the suburbs of Chicago, reading IGN, not realizing that it, you know, I was reading Imagine Games Network. And it was all these individual platform sites that came together that then became channels that then just became IGN.

You almost have a similar deal going on right now where you are on the information super highway in the video game critique whatever content grocery store. And you have to go aisle by aisle and pick up what you want and put it in your cart rather than have it all. all farmed for you, but also I would say that you can easily subscribe to all these things and then you have your thing because that's what my Spotify looks like every day when I step out there and I'm like, who put up new stuff today? Oh man, Klepick's out of new thing. Yeah, I got to hear that. And then don't even get me started on substacks. Like, that's a brave new world of so much great shit's going on out there. Yeah. Like, yeah, it's like, you know, it's like using Reddit. You can sign up for the specific subredits that you want to do. You don't use all of Reddit,

you know? Exactly. The fire hose of content on Reddit. Well, it seems like this would be a great time to remind you that Kind of Funny wouldn't be here 11 years later. If it wasn't for your support on Patreon.com slash Kind of Funny. YouTube.com slash Kind of Funny games. Apple and Spotify, you can go there and pick up your Kind of Funny membership. And of course, get all of our content ad free. Get your daily dose of me, Greg Miller, in an exclusive podcast called Greg Way 15 to 20 minutes every day.

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Except you never get away with this on television, starring Shannon Woodward. You seriously need to see a shrink or something before you get arrested for dick. Hewaving. Thomas Sadaski. I don't have imposter syndrome. You should? John Cryer. You think I don't know bullshit when I hear it?

I represent Sean Hannity. And John Boyager. I was in Star Wars and Pacific Room. The second one. Wherever. See You in Hell. Wherever you get your podcasts and at see you in hell. com.

Hey you, join us in person for our live in review of Howard the Duck. That's right. Howard the Duck joins MCU in Review Wednesday, January 28th at 7.30 p.m. at Cobb's Comedy Club for S. Sketch Fest. You can come watch me do all the podcasts within a podcast you love. Andy will be going do do do do do do do do to do. Nick will be shopping for pants starting it.

But everybody else will be there too for you to come hang out and see. All you have to do is go over to kind of funny.com slash sketchfest right now to get your tickets before they sell out. Because come and watching a bunch of people talk about a very old Howard the Duck movie is really selling tickets fast. And we're back. Matt, I think I have a question here from Max Maddox Bennett. I want to get in in a second. But even before we get there, what's fascinating to me is something you talked about, right? Of like more games than ever.

There's all this stuff happening, blah, blah, blah. I remember being on game scoops back in the day. And this is the old, old, old podcast from 2007, 2007, 2008. And Damon equating what we were doing, he's like, there are more rock stars in the world right now than there are video game journalists or whatever we called it at the time. time. And I remember being blown away by that. And then here we are again, as the pool continues to shrink, it feels like in terms of what I think the traditional path would have been. Because you dial it back to me in fourth grade when I decide I want to write about video games. It was very easy, right? I will get a degree in journalism or writing and I will go work at EGM. I will go

at GamePro. I will go, like there were so many avenues, let alone the dot com boom of there was all this stuff. Whereas now the pathways are so much more jaggy. which leads to Max's question, who wrote in, of course, for a Greg way. And I answered this, but I want Matt's opinion since he's here. Hey, Greg, long time watcher, first time Patreon pleasure. Question for you. As someone who has been in games media and games journalism for a number of years and has seen how the industry has changed and fluctuated,

would you advise people who want to be in games media to stick with it slash try it or has the window closed? Now that you're back on the streets, you know what I mean? Panhandling out there. All right, all right, game news. for money. Do you say, are you saying everybody stay away? Don't do it. Are you still encouraging people to jump in the pool? I look, I think, I think, okay, here's the real answer is like for like writing in general, for journalism in general has always been one of those things where you kind of do

it, uh, on the side as hard as you can until it becomes like a full time thing and that you can quit, you can quit your cashier job to do, right? Like it is incredibly hard to do it. It's just jumping in full time right away as you only thing. Yeah. You, you, you step in And maybe you, but like, getting in is actually easier than I think people realize. Okay. It's you, you and this is, I mean, okay, to be fair, this is how I did it back in 2015. Yeah. I went to websites that I liked that had, you know, content that I thought I could write for, right?

I would look up editors and their email addresses and I would just email them. And I'd be like, hello, my name is Matt Kim. I'm big fan of your site. I have this idea for an article. And then you just send them off. And then you're going to get a lot of, hey, thanks for reaching out. no, we can't do this. But sometimes you can get like a little like, hey, yeah, absolutely, let's do it.

And then that's sort of, that's how you do. And you do that enough times that eventually kind of becomes a full-time thing. But to answer this specific question has the window closed. It's definitely harder now than I think it was 10 years ago. It's definitely tougher for sure. But like, don't give up on your dreams would be my optimistic answer. But the realistic answer is prepare for disappointment. That's great to put it.

I think I think you're spot on. and I think the answer goes so much deeper than just like is it a good time to try it or jump in or you know is the window closed the window's never going to close as long as there's content to be made and as long as there are even kind of funnies or whoever's indie formers dot coms motherships there's always going to be places that need content and need writers and need host producers whatever the thing you stumble upon and I haven't done since 2015 I'm like well I haven't done it since 2007 or whatever

six uh it's the idea that, and I think, you know, I've been stealing this as I said I would as soon as I heard it the first time. I watched the John Candy documentary recently, right? I like me. And if they talked to Conan O'Brien. Right. Conan, you know, convinced John Candy is his, like, group or whatever, Conan's group at Harvard. He meant his candy to come down and speak there or whatever. Conan got to be the guy who went and picked him up from the airport.

Right. And so, like, he's talking, his experiences are strictly from a, I'm a fan and I'm dealing with this large and like guy. And at some point, he said to John Candy, like, you know, I've been thinking about doing comedy. And Candy looked at him and said, you don't think you do. And I think that's exactly what we're talking about, where the people who do this stuff, you, me, every other name you, I think people know out there, we got to do this. I always knew that I was going to do this no matter what. And it was that drive and it was that fire and it was that passion. The people who, and this is

not meant to insult anybody who's listening who feel are going to be the people I'm about to talk about. They'd be like, I really want to. Oh, I've been thinking about it. Oh, it's like, no, like you've got to go. You've got to be doing this. And I definitely myself, you know, I used to talk about all this. I used to talk about all the time.

Fourth grade, I knew I wanted to do this. I want to go back and shake that fat little kid as a fat old man. It'd be like, then why aren't you doing it? I knew in the fourth grade and I never wrote my, my first reviews I wrote were when EGM in like seventh or eighth grade was like, we need a, we're looking for a part-time editor. And I was like, I'll write my first two reviews and send them in. And I'm sure they'll be great.

They were garbage. You know what I mean? Like, I should have been doing it every day. I should have been sharpening that pencil. I should have been sharpening that tool. And so to get to this point right here, what you're talking about in 2015 is exactly what I used to do. I was in Dan Shue's fucking email inbox all the time asking you name questions, trying to

act like I knew what I was talking about. But you know what I mean? Like, what should I major in in college? Should I get a Mac or a PC? Like, you need answer because nobody was emailing Dan Shud. But like, that is the thing of like the people who want to do this, the people that I've seen on the outside where I'm like, oh, you're going to do this. Fucking Roger.

When I met, when I didn't even meet Roger, and I heard Roger the first time and then DMed him and I was like, you're going to work for us one day. You know, here he is 11 years later out there, regretting all of his choices. But that shines through and that is the way it is. And so, you know, I go back all the time of even though I have this great career and I, you know, got it very young, it was still like, I count all those applications I sent during college and never got a rejection letter. I count all of the freelancing I did after college for inquest gamer and weird dot coms that would give it to me. And then of course like I this my story goes

if you've never heard it, you know, my muzoo.edu email address gets shut down. I make a Gmail. I contact IGN 13 times for 13 different jobs. Finally on the 13th time those first 12 never a rejection, never a response. Right. 13th time I'm contacted, interviewed and hired within 24 hours. Like my life changed overnight, and that's not how it works anymore. I don't think they would hire you site unseen and not bring you to San Francisco from the middle of country. Simple times. But it is still the idea that, like, you will stand out if you're doing this. And I think now more than ever, my advice has always been to do, but it is to do everything.

It is to, you should be reviewing, you should be making TikToks. You should be making podcasts. And they'll think none of it is to, you're not doing any of that to become the next big TikTok. It'd be great if you did. It'd be awesome for you if it did. It's more that you get it so you're comfortable in front of a mic, so you're comfortable doing this because when I got contacted and hired on that 13th time at the end of my first day, Chris Roper walked up to me and said, all right, any questions for us?

And I said, yeah, why now? What do you mean? I'm like, why are you? I applied all these times. I've been applying in college. Why now? And he said, you proved you could do it. Yeah.

You would convince them to give you a blog and a column. And so you wrote every week and you wrote every day. And we finally saw that and understood that, oh, this guy's got something to say. Yeah. No, writing, like, if you want to write about games, you should write about video games, you know, damned if it ends up in a place, right? You should, like, and that's one of the nice things. Like, during, like, November, December, I was unemployed and I had a job, right? But I just finished dispatch, you know?

Oh, yeah. I just sat through and I was playing, like, an episode of night, and then I finished it up, and I was like, I have 1,600 words that I want to write about dispatch. Yeah, yeah. I had, like, two thoughts. I had two headlines in my head and, like, 800 words of pop, and I just started writing them. And then I was, you know, lucky enough that I've been doing this enough time that I was able to, you know, reach out to Tam at GameSpot. I was like, hey, I have these two articles. They have these two pitches.

Yeah, yeah. About Dispatch, one of the best games I played this year. You want them? And you know, thankfully they were like, yeah, let's do it. And I was like, you know, okay. Which is just like, like, you want to write. You know, I finished up the games and immediately I was just like, I just got to doodle this down. It's something out.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's just one of those, it's like definitely, if you're passionate, about it and you want to do it, then you should just do it, you know? Yeah, you know, another one that I heard recently was Michael Bean talking to James Cameron on his podcast, right? And one of the things James Cameron was talking about with actors is like actors loving the process. The process is part of it. Yeah. I think so many people jump to video wall, microphone, we're hanging out with friends and that, I want to do that. And it's

like, well, you got to love not only playing the game, which sounds stupid, but then critically thinking in laying in bed every night, being like, all right, we'll organize this thought, let alone writing if you want to do that. What's it like to write that? What's it like to write a script? What's it like to do? Like you have to enjoy that process because if you don't like any of that,

then this isn't going to be the end product for you. Like not to get like self-help guru, you know, big megaphone guy, but you know, you really want to like impress yourself. Like sometimes you write, you know, sometimes you write something and you write down like a little thought you had about a game and you're just like,

damn, that was a really good sentence. This goes back to how I tell people to approach making content now and making shows. Is that if you are going to make a show with your friends and you're going to do, like IGN, you're guaranteed to fail. There is an IGN. Nobody needs another IGN. What they need

is an indie former. What they need is a mothership. What they need is specialized content. And more importantly, at an even more boiled down base level, what you need to be doing is making content you'd want to consume. That's the biggest thing. If you're impressing yourself with your writing, like the amount of times I get in a car and I'm like, man, kind of funny

content was great today. I want to listen to more of it. I'm like, fuck, I was on everything today. It sucks. That sucks. And I'm not knocking on. I have to be in a mood for post games. I have to be in a mood to over here and jump into Kleppick stuff or listen to Jason Shry or like I have different seasons I need to be in or whatever like you should enjoy what you're making yeah oh yeah if you're having fun you know don't do it yeah yeah uh this is an interesting one I saw that I think about every now and again and it will catch up to me I'm sure one day and it kind already has

let's get into it uh in the Twitch chat Hornet Celestials 804 said I maybe this is YouTube I apologize if it was I wrote for over I wrote over 1,000 articles for a website called PC invasion. A year after my layoff, the site owner took the website offline. All of our work was just gone. And I think about that a lot. We're talking about you want it right. You have to be like, for me, there's a very special time at IGN when before my IGN started where it was IGN blogs. Right. And it was Javi and it was Brit and it was Fazi and all these community members and me and Chobot and like where we'd be writing content for the site obviously. But Then you'd go, I blogged every day for years over there, just something.

I wanted to put it up. And not only did it make a community, it was my journal. And I thought that was so cool. And I wrote this entire, you know, my introductory introductory piece, which now would be an IGN article article, was a blog of, hey, here's almost died moving to San Francisco. And like, that's gone. That's lost the time. You know, my post about, hey, well, hey, I have cancer. And then, hey, I've beaten cancer and all my thank yous to everybody.

That's all gone because at some point IGN switched over their servicing thing. and they killed blogs that way and it was like, oh, that sucks that it's gone. I think about that all the time with the freelance stuff I did here or there, whatever, like trying to keep, if you are going to go into this, you need to be keeping your stuff archives somewhere.

I worry about it even with us and YouTube or whatever of where you can all go. Yeah, no, I have, like, I'm, I have a portfolio site that keeps all of my stuff that's, you know, like saved on the website in PDF form. And then also if you do that one little trick where if you do a print page,

but then you can save as a PDF, that you save your article. Yeah, that's how you. You definitely have to keep, yeah, I've lost, when I was at, U.S. Gamer is gone now. Like, all of U.S. Gamer as a domain is, I think, gone. But luckily, some of those articles were taken over to VG 24-7 as, like, a really, like, charitable act. I don't think they had to do that. So it's good that some of my U.S. G. G. 24-7, but most of them are gone for good.

And I definitely think, yeah, it's one of those things where, like, new digital age. And, like, at the time, you could just clip out your newspaper clippings or your magazine pages. and that's what's so crazy to me of like, you know, being a kid of this generation. But like, I have this weird like in between. Like I'm, you know, I was there for the baton passes. I remember life before the internet and after it. And so like in my blue bin, in my basement in the back corner are just copious piles of the tribune that I wrote for.

And then also my journalism like when I did J200 or whatever it was where I wrote for the local paper that's part of the school. Like I have all my clipouts pasted into it. And then I remember doing that, even then, this is archaic. And then it's like, well, now shit's just gone. You know what I mean? Because I wasn't keeping a spreadsheet and a print to this and do this. It's awful.

Oh, man. Magazine writing, my white whale. Yeah? You never have? I've never gotten the print by line. Game Informer. What are you doing? I should hit them up.

Game informer. Expect my email. Do me first, though, because I, when they were like, I want to write something. They're like, yeah, sure. And then never did me back. They might do that to me too. I probably have to pitch them. Who's got the time?

Who's got the time? I'm so busy. Let me write about Vanessa Carlton. We have some more super chats in here. I like this one for shoutouts of stuff of people doing similar things or cool things. Ambrosia Jam points out. Also, a unique elagam...

Amalgamation. God damn it. I know the word, but you know what I'm trying to say here? Amalgamation. Thank you. I got a stupid mouth. Of this conversation, it's Kit and Krista. Shout out to K&K. Y'all should bring them on the show. They've been on before. Kitt and Krista have done stuff with us before, for the record. But yeah, we love Kit and Krista, of course.

who were the face kind of of Nintendo, right, for so long, then they left and they do their own thing. And their insight's awesome. When Doug Bowser retired and all that, that was the first podcast I wouldn't listen to because I knew they had the inside dirt on what was going on there and the legacy and how they're passing the baton there. I thought that was all great.

The Portland Kevin said, I'm in my 40s and I wanted a podcast about games for decades, but I only started doing it a few years ago. You just have to do it. And then a shameless plug, PS Game Club. So there you go. PS, I'm sorry, PS Plus Game Club. Go listen to that over.

there. Same thing here. Foxy Steve. I started podcasting in content creation 2013 and all it was was my iPhone on a stool in my basement. You got to start somewhere. Yes, this is another old Greg adage of the number of people who show up at meet and greets back in the day or autograph signings. I mean, my friend want to do it or why aren't you doing it? Oh, well, he

doesn't have the right mic and I'm like, no, it's going to be trash. Just go do it. Don't even record it if you want, but like you get out there and start going. All you need is a dream and a song in your heart. That's all it is what you need to do. Yeah, yeah. And an iPhone at this point. All you really need is one iPhone. He used to be so competent. to do any of the things we did, and now you can just do everything amazing for the thing that's in your pocket already that you're just playing bad games on to begin with. So Matt Kim, yeah,

what's next? Where do you go from here? You know what I mean? You're back. It's January. New Life, new, we've relaunched you. Oh, yeah. What do you want to accomplish? What's up next? What do I want to accomplish? Let's see. You know, it's truly should have come prepared. And I really wish I had something other than like find a job you know but like find a job would be nice like unemployment's been kind to me kinder to me than I think it has to been to other people and my sympathies are with them yeah but yeah employment sounds good and whether that's in media or whether that's in something else I would hope that is still in games because that is what I've spent a lot of my time and passion on and I'm still something that I'm clearly passionate about because being here I'm just like man I love talking about

games. Yeah, it's pretty good. So, hopefully still in games. But other than that, I don't know what I, I, okay, actually, I was telling my girlfriend this, and this is something that I was excited about is. Okay. Whatever I'm going to do next is going to be different from the thing that I've been doing for the last nine years of my life, which is a long time to do one thing.

Which is writing about games. And whatever I do next is for sure going to be different. Okay. And so I'm excited about whatever that is. I don't know what that is. Well, I'm excited to see it happen, Matt. You know how much I love you, how talented I think you are, how much I enjoy your work. So I'm happy.

You're back in the. May too because now I can bug you to come up here more. I know, right? It was great. I'm glad we were able to finally make this happen after multiple sort of false starts. Yeah, yeah. But you can't look so good when you show up. You all said this great coat when you walked in. It's cold. It's cold, which means all my winter clothes

are back out of storage. Oh, winter clothes? Yeah, winter clothes. The rest of the country laughing at us. Our final super chat comes from E-Boss 22. Leave it on this camera. I can't tell who's taller. I need a back-to-back. It's pretty close. Pretty close.

No, if you're an audio listener, it's not close at all. dominated them, but the chairs, they make it look different. Matt, thank you for coming up here and hanging out with us today. Thank you for having me. Of course, everyone, thank you for watching. Keep up with Matt. What's your preferred social media to be followed on? I am primarily, I am exclusively at this point on Blue Sky at Law of TD.

But I think if you just look up Matt Kim, like my face is my profile. So just, you know, right there. Easy enough. Okay, cool. And if you need to hire Matt Kim, go to LinkedIn and find him there. That's true. Okay, great. Matt, thanks again for coming through here.

Oh, they've got the BS up there for you right now. everybody of course thank you for watching another episode of the Kind of Funny Games cast remember we are all about live talk shows

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and of course you get good karma for sporting an 11 person 11 year old small business. The day is not done. Joey and Nick are going to run a restaurant full of rats. I can't wait to see this. But if you're not joining us on that stream, until next time, it's been our pleasure to serve you.