Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - Star Wars Games and GTA 5 World Records - Kinda Funny Gamescast Ep. 06

Episode Date: February 5, 2015

Nintendo announced a YouTube content ID partner program and people aren't happy, we discuss our favorite Star Wars game memories, Kojima wants to remake Metal Gear Solid as an open world game, and Grand Theft Auto V is now the second best selling game of all-time. (Released 02.06.15) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, guys? I'm Tim Gettys. This is episode 6 of the Kind of Funny Games cast. As always, I'm joined by the coolest dudes in video games, Colin Moriarty and Greg Miller. Clops for them. But now, for the first time ever, we got the producer.

The first and only time. You picked a subject, I might be able to actually talk about. What's up, Tim? There's a lot of subjects. A lot of things. You know a lot about video games. You proved that to me recently.

I know more than I think I know. And a lot less than I think I know. And most of the sense of us. Simultaneously. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make a goddamn look of a sense. It doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to make any sense.

We're doing our own thing now. We don't have to make sense anymore. All I know is you're no good at IDARB. Damn. Pah, ba, pa, pa. That's really exciting because we got a bunch of controllers from Xbox. We got everybody. We have enough controllers now to do full-on eight-player I-DARB.

Yeah, and you blew my mind a bit. Yeah. That was eight players. I didn't know that that was a thing with I-DARB. Yeah. Because with four players, that was already cast. Well, with two players. I wonder if the arena is.

open up a little bit when there's eight. I hope they don't. Because then it can be a team sport. You toss it around. You do what you need to do. So the past function would actually make sense. Instead of just Greg throwing it like a loony. Hey, you know what?

Got me to the finals. Did I win? No. But it got me to the finals. Colin beat me. Yeah. Proud of them. That was nice.

He needed some redemption. You needed to get up out of the dirt after the Tetris debacle. Oh, man. That's bad. We'll do it again. We'll do it again. We'll do it up.

You and I need to be a team. I was thinking that it would actually make the most sense for Nick and I to be a team since it was the top and the... You lost to Greg. You lost to Greg and you lost to me. Who scored the fewest points? Probably me. I think Tim did a lot better than I.

So it should be me, I mean, to be fair, it should be the best player and the worst player. Nobody wants it to be fair, though. What we really need is we have all the controllers now. We have four kind of funny people. We need to have four non-kind-of-wony people roll in here. See, what I think you're not taking into account is that Tim and I have a cadence in life and all things in life. And then if you put us together, we're going to be a power duo. Yeah.

Because Tim's going to actually research how to beat the game and how to be best at it. I just have the reflexes of a much younger man. And he's charming, too. I am. So I'll play charmingly. But I'll play charmingly. I mean, if you want Greg and I'd be on a team, that's fair. I'm just saying, I don't know if that's.

It's not like we should all be on a team and channel some shlubs. Like giant bomb. Damn. Okay, that's the callout right there. Just threw down. The I-DARP challenge. Hashtag I digaf. Gertzman picks up.

I got a garb. I have no idea with any. I do gaff? I don't give a fuck. Come on. Step up your freaking teenage game, Greg Miller. Hello, L-L-Z. All right.

It's time for the rigumor roll. This show, very similar to the game of Greg's show. Releases Monday through Thursday on the YouTube's. Full episode on Friday. Full episode Friday on iTunes and all that stuff. But you can get earlier at kindof-foneygames.com. Nope. That's not right.

I was so close. Kindof-Foney.com. Where you can get all of it. Patreon.com slash kind of funnyfonygamp. or kind of funny.bankamp.com, which now there's a new function that I don't even know if you guys know about. I was talking to the band camp people, you can subscribe on bandcamp. I saw that. It's a thing.

It's $10 a month. And if you pay for it, or it might be $8. I think it might be $8. For $8 a month, you get the Game of a Reggie show and. That makes sense. Games cast. And it's just the audio. You don't get all the exclusive fun Patreon stuff.

So definitely Patreon is the cool place to go. Sure. But if you just want just the audio and you just want it early and you want both shows and it'll give it to your Bank Camp app and all that stuff. Because there's a lot of people out there that really like bandcamp. Because it's nice and you can get the flak downloads and all that stuff. And it's crazy. It's beautiful.

You can do that and subscribe and that. It'd be fun. Before we begin, I want to give a big shout out to Walter on Twitter at Walters Next. He bought both the kind of funny t-shirt and the producer-slash-sadducer shirt. And he tweeted me a picture of the producer-s-sducer shirt. And it looks like if you were to actually physically wear sex. Oh yeah. That's what this shirt looks like.

It looks like if you're going to put it on your body, this is no guarantee that this will happen, okay? I'm not going to go out on a limb and be like, let's make ourselves legally liable for this. But it looks like if you were to wear this shirt, you would feel like it was having sex with your body in a good way for the entire duration of its wear. Is there a bad way of having sex with your body?

I've had some bad sex. It's not consensual, but. Yeah. There's lots of bad ways, actually. I mean, I imagine great. Swaggisgis. I am awesome. Is there such a thing as bad sex?

Like bad pizza. I mean, sex is sex, right? there's just sex that's not as good as other sex. That's true. Like pizza. I mean, in the varying degree of things that are good and bad, sex is still always good, I think, in general. All right. Well, we're just talking about shirts, and this kind of went into this, but I do want to say,

sex is like pizza is a good shirt. Sex is like pizza. If you want to check out all of our shirts, ladies gentlemen, go to kindof funny.com slash store. We're all very tired. Go to a, uh. I was going to say Dishol. Kind of funny, but kindof funny.com slash store. We got some great ones.

We have maybe some mugs coming, and those won't be the only things coming if you buy the producer slash station shirt. My God. Damn son. I'm saying if you buy that shirt, it'll come as well onto your body. Do what you want. So it's sure we'll call on your body. All right, guys, first topic of this week is the Nintendo content ID conundrum that is facing YouTube right now. Let me tell you guys a little bit more details about it.

Thank you. So it's the Nintendo Creators Program. Nintendo says, In the past, advertising proceeds that could be received for videos that included Nintendo copyrighted content, such as gameplay videos, went to Nintendo, according to YouTube's rules. A statement on the program's website reads, Now through this service, Nintendo will send you a share of those advertising proceeds for any YouTube videos or channels containing Nintendo copyrighted content that you register.

Videos with Nintendo content must be original gameplay footage captured by the user. Members are also required to present the following disclosure in each video, either verbally or as an on-screen caption. Quote, I have a license to use Nintendo's content in this video through the Nintendo Creators Program. This video is not sponsored or endorsed by Nintendo. While they're reading this, you just see the gun, like, come in, like, got a framing back in.

But any advertising revenue from this video will be shared with Nintendo. So if you're interested in participating, you can register a Nintendo's Creators Program account via the website. The advertisement revenue share is 70% for channels and 60% for videos, and all payments will be made via pay pay pay. in U.S.D.

That's some bullshit. People are upset about this, including PewDie Pye himself. Yeah. Boogie, too. The champion of YouTube. Yeah. Yeah, PewDiePie said what everyone's thinking, that Nintendo games have just gone straight to the bottom of his list of games that he wants to deal with or has to deal. Because this is the bullshit thing, right? It says, I can read it from here because I got my glass on. In the past, advertising proceeds that could be received for

videos that include Nintendo copyrighted content, went to Nintendo according to YouTube rules. Well, I'm a little confused about that because Nintendo is the one that's striking the videos or marking the videos to get the money, right? I mean, this is what happened in the past. So, first of all, it's bullshit. As of last year, they did that.

So they were one of the companies that initiated that they got 100%. So here, they're at least, I mean, they're giving away 70% of the stuff. Right, but they're making it seem like it's YouTube's rules. I don't think YouTube went to fucking Washington and it was like, hey guys, or Kyoto. And it was like, we have a rule.

If it's a Nintendo video, you get all of the money. You know, I don't think of... We don't want to take it from fans, but if that's YouTube's rule... That's so disingenuous. So here's the thing. I do not want to come off like I'm saying that this is a good thing because it's not at all. But I do think that people are jumping down the throat of it a little... Before I even go down this, there is some even worse things where there's this process where, even if you're registered for this, it takes days to get approved for each video.

Per video. Per video. Per video. So you need a way to get approved for each video and all this. And it's like in this, you know, this is our jobs. This is our living. We can't do that. Like, we can't wait a couple days to see if our thing gets approved to then get 70%.

You know, like, from already when you're splitting with YouTube, like, what, 50%, 40%, 40%, depending on what it is. Like, that makes no sense. So we're getting 70% of 50% of 50%, which is, I'm not good at math, but there's something there. 50% of 70% of 70% of 50%? 70% of 50% is 30%. Is that even possible? I think, I think. Well, yeah, you just have a new total when you do the 70, and then you take 50%.

that or vice versa. There's no, until you have a real amount, you can't do it. What? No, it's not because until you have a number, you can't do it.

Oh, yeah. Sentence or percentage-wise. I don't know. Whatever. It's been a good show. Replaced for X and extrapolate. No, this is just a bullshit.

And the weird thing is, is that it's interesting. So many people are mad about it now and not when it originally came out, right? Because when it originally happened, Nintendo's like, we're going to copyright,

claim all our videos and take all the money. People were angry, but they weren't like they are now. I think they were. It seems now people are way more vocal Well I think now let's... They're not going to be vocal in like two weeks though That's the thing. It's the same thing that happened last time.

Every time this happens with any of the companies People are like, oh, fuck this. This is fucking bullshit. And then they don't notice it ever Because it doesn't matter to them. So they shut the fuck up. I think that's going to happen again here. I don't.

I think it all depends on how aggressive Nintendo is. We've talked about this before. We do smash every Wednesday, right? We so far have not gotten any strikes or had anybody say they're claiming our money on it. Once they do, smash on Wednesday. ends. And I think that's the same thing here. I haven't heard. Even though PewDie Pye's talking about it, he hasn't been struck, has he? He hasn't had these agreements placed on him, right? Or not the

agreement. He hasn't had anybody come take his, try to take his money, right? I don't know, PewDie Pied on. There have been other people that have been, when Nintendo gets aggressive and comes after people who are vocal and have audiences, that's when they have a problem. Right now, if they're just trying to take down, not take down, but take a piece of these gamers who are putting up let's plays and have 50 subs or whatever. That's a different story, right? Because then, yeah, what are they going to say? I don't know. I don't think that's with the targeting, though. Who are they targeting?

I think they're targeting the IGNs or the uses of the world that are actually. But why hasn't that happened? What I'm saying is this isn't viewed. If I remember correctly, they tried to do it. They've been trying to do it, but I think it's probably a much bigger uphill battle than they think that they think they have. It's not easy. You know how many people are creating content based on their games?

Yeah, but again. Content ID and games is harder than music or videos and stuff. But it's not hard to look at IGN or kind of funny games to say they're doing it and do it. I don't think they're going to go after companies like IGN. And I'm wondering if they're, And I'm wondering if they've not gone after us because we're too small or because we have an MCN. Because I think that those are the... It's the MCN.

Yeah. So I think that there's like multiple layers because we're represented obviously by the collective. We very much appreciate them. I agree with Greg. The second that Nintendo goes after one of our videos, we are not doing Nintendo content anymore. And I'm not playing these. I'm not playing their game. We'll be putting up videos saying why we're not doing it.

You know what I mean? Like that's a big deal. Like that's the PR battle they fight. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, going back on this. Like I do not want to sound like I'm on the side of Nintendo on this. Just admit your Nintendo fan boy.

It's because that's nothing to do with Nintendo. It is way better than the VATES library. Thank you for the information, by the way, that there are more 75 plus games on Metacritic for Vita than there are 3DS. Oh, my God. Idarb. I know! There's more 90s for Nintendo, though, so it's all that.

Anyways, so for the YouTube side of it, like what they're saying about the Nintendo, like Nintendo said that YouTube says that. YouTube does say that. It's up to the people to act on it. Well, that's what I'm saying. It is their content, though. It's not disingenuous. because it is, they are the ones creating the stuff.

It's like it's the same thing if we, no, look, they have a movie or something. Like, they own the movie. Technically, you're not allowed to use it. Technically, we're not allowed to do let's plays. Like, all the people that are doing let's plays and are upset about it, guess what, guys, you're not allowed to do that. You're just doing it and you're pissed off that they're mad because so many other people

get away with this, but they're not allowed to. I don't dispute the legality of it. So it's not a matter of being allowed or not allowed to do it. It really comes down to the IP holder, and that's, and that's my understanding of the issue. And I think, yes, you're absolutely right. Letter of the Law says it is their game. It is their IP that people are creating content with. They should be allowed to dictate what kind of content gets made.

The thing that bothers me is that you can fight that battle all you want, but it is a losing battle. And not only that, but the only company or entity that's going to hurt is Nintendo in the end. They're getting a ton of free marketing. Like how many people will still continue to play Smash for the next year? And how many games do you know that are that relevant for that long, like that stay that relevant that long online, right? Not many, not a handful. Maybe Call of Duty and some other fighting games or some other first-person shooters. But for the most part, content creators like us are keeping this type of content alive.

And we're keeping these titles alive because we love them. And that's the whole spirit of YouTube. When you come out against that and say, look, we want to take a huge piece of that pie. You're not, there's no incentive for growth there. And so inevitably, that business is going to die because what you're basically telling people is, stop. Not, hey, share the wealth. It's, hey, go play someone else's game. doesn't do this. See, I see it from another

perspective. And again, at the end of the day, I am on our side of this. Yeah, you're in Reggie's pocket. Just admit it. No, but what it comes out to is, I think that, like, I think what Nintendo's trying to do, and they're doing it wrong. Like, they do everything wrong. Like, there's so much shit that they do that they think they're doing right, and they just aren't, and this is a perfect example of it, is, I think this is them trying

to support YouTube and stuff. They think this is good, and they're like, oh, you're getting 70% like, that's great to all the people that aren't making anything, you know? And I think that's the angle they're coming from with this whole thing, and it is wrong. They're stupid, because you're right. Like, PewDiePie and PewDiePie even said this in some interview. I read, I don't remember where it was. But he was saying that he, people aren't coming to him to watch and play

Nintendo games or watch and play any games. They come to him for him. And when they see him playing these games, that's the free marketing. And that's where it comes into. Nintendo sees it the other way where they're like, oh, they're coming for Smash Bros. And it's like, no, they're not. Like, that's the problem. I mean, that's a debatable. It's a relative thing. But I do know this. If they come to us and say, I mean, I'm with Colin on this, like, you know, we got to fight this battle because if they come to us and say, look, we're going to take your money out of your pocket because you're playing our game. We're going to play smash off camera because it's a great

game and I wouldn't not not play that game. I'm going to go play I'm going to just run over it. We're going to make a video of it. No, I'm going to throw it. Well, that's the thing about it. No one contends the legality of what they're saying. They own the IP, right? Now, I'm not sitting here and being like they legally don't own the right to

Mario brothers. Obviously, it's a broadcast of Mario and they can say no. The idea is, is it smart? And does it make sense? That's what I'm saying. And the, It is disingenuous because they're no different than any other publisher. Devobber Digital who's been very vocal about being like,

do anything you want with their games, anything you want, because they're not stupid about it. They understand that they've sold literally millions of games because of lets plays. That, you know, they're like, they can also be like, oh, by the letter to the law on YouTube, we own 100% of the video. And no, that's why that's a disingenuous statement. Everyone knows that that's a disingenuous statement. That's been going on all over the place.

It's not a difference at all. There's a difference when, like, how many views are those games getting compared to how many views Nintendo games are getting. Like Nintendo... A game like Hotline Miami probably would contend with almost any Nintendo game on YouTube. That's how the game got big. You know what I mean? So it's not like...

It's not like... There's Smash Brothers and Mario Kart, but it's like... Hotline Miami is huge, you know? Yeah, but when you think about like all the YouTube channels that just focus on Nintendo stuff and how many views those get, like Nintendo could be making so much money from this YouTube stuff. So it's like from a business standpoint. Like, it's one of those things where why...

Like, I understand that they're losing a lot of this free advertising and all that stuff for the people that are like... you, we're not going to cover this anymore. But for all the people that are like, whatever, 70% is fine, or they just don't care about that. They're still getting that. And then Nintendo's just making money from it then. But do you think the big people will continue to do that? I think that a lot of people will.

And I mean, a lot of people before when Nintendo said, fuck it, we're taking 100%. They stopped. Like, Rooster vets straight up just didn't do Nintendo content forever. And then they kind of went back on it. So they started again. But it's one of those things where it's like Nintendo, as a business, they're going to make hell of money from this shit. Well, yeah, I have no doubt they'll come up on the upside of this. They're going to make money off of this.

It'll be a positive revenue stream for them. Is it right to do it? No. In short term, yeah, they'll make money. In long term, does it just continue to hurt their reputation? And does it continue to quellish creativity on the internet and on YouTube? Yes, I think it does. I think there is a huge amount of power in the freedom of saying we shouldn't be able to,

we shouldn't be letting creators do this. But we're going to do it anyway because there's something special about this. And there's something amazing about an entire community out there that is formed around this title that we make. Maybe we should just focusing on making more of these titles and putting them out those communities so that they can be our spokesperson and our vast marketing machine, which by the way, cool, can we then go back and charge them? Like, can we be like, hey, we've gotten you this much views? It's worth this much in the free marketplace. Like, now you owe us for playing your game.

Like, the door swings both ways. I actually agree with that. And just in the sense that, like, it's not looking into the time, like, the 100% seizure of the money, doesn't look, go into the time that we have to put into editing the video and putting it on the video and putting our audience's eyes on it. it's not a matter of any of that because Microsoft's kind of trying to do some well not trying to do but I think they've talked about some similar things or like some YouTube rules the good news is that most companies get it like Sony isn't running around being like don't you know don't fuck around with Uncharted on YouTube we're going to come after another like it's free advertising this is stupid this isn't we're not even in the

advertising business yeah but that's what I think that's that's that kills me too is that I get when Nintendo's coming from right if I was sitting there a little bit removed from what you know the new media generation is and I was sitting there looking at this company that I owned, I would say, hey, there's a lot of money that people are making off of us. We should get in on that. But I think that, you know, I've heard you guys talk time and time again about how sort of distanced Nintendo is, the management of Nintendo is from really with the consumer. And this is just another, this is another example of that, right?

They don't, it's, that screams to me like, we don't get it. Exactly. They don't get it. And by distancing yourself from this and having people stop playing your games, even though people will continue, some sites will, a lot of sites won't. And you're just, again, pairing down this group that is, you're in bringing, this generation, that's coming up and only knows Minecraft and touchscreen games. Yeah.

If they're not going to see that Smash Bros. is fun, that card is fun, then how would they know to pick that up? And they don't know that. That connection isn't there anymore. This is like what you at the PlayStation 4 launch event when I interviewed Shue and I brought up,

and I mentioned something offhandedly about how, you know, Nintendo I thought was screwing up and we had this then diatribe about it, discussion about it. The fact that he's like, well, you know, we want them to succeed. They need to succeed because their games are kidsy focus.

So if people are playing the Wii U, they want to, you know, come up to a PS4. Whereas by removing yourself from that ecosystem, by removing yourself from YouTube, by making yourself not cool, by making yourself not connected to the internet. These are all ways to alienate your brand and just become what I'm always talking about, a toy that's on the shelf for two, three games. Yeah.

See, I think that the fact that they have the program, it shows that they want to do it. And they do want to support that system. They're just doing it the wrong way. Sure. But other companies don't even have that. Like Microsoft just straight right or not. Just don't do it. Or like, if you do it, we own the shit.

You know, and like, no one cares about that. But Microsoft doesn't have that many exclusives. That's why. I mean, when Halo comes around, it'll be a bigger deal, right? But that's the thing is. It's just like, like, you're saying Sony doesn't care. It's just like, we're just not seeing it yet. But the thing is, all of the things.

Every single game can get copyright stripes. Sure. But understand that, like, my stance would be the same if Microsoft or Sony came after our stuff, too. There are lots of games and lots of publishers that, frankly, don't have their head up their ass about this kind of stuff. So we don't have to cover the big three if they all want to come after the videos that everyone's doing. That's the point is that I don't dispute the legality. of it at all. I don't dispute that they can do whatever they want. I don't dispute that there's money to be made there. What I dispute is the intelligence of doing it. And, you know,

Jim Sterling put up a awesome video about this and it was brilliant. We watched it together because the stroke of genius was for the first two minutes he talked about as if EA was doing it. And then he's like, by the way, you know, I'm some, you know, summarizing it, but he's basically like, by the way, I said EA over and over again because it's really Nintendo and everyone gives Nintendo a pass on everything. So what about if it's a company that you actually hate? How would you feel about it then? You know? And it's like, that's a really good point because Nintendo does get a pass on everything. So it's like it's interesting that, you know, they're identifying like if this was a bigger, this would be a bigger deal if this is a

publisher that was more loath by someone. But a lot of these publishers need to understand that this is free advertising. They can do what they want. They own IP. They invest a lot of money in IP, but they make the money through game sales. And if they're smart, they understand that like when a tastemaker like PewDiePie plays Smash Brothers, that they have the potential to sell like 50,000 copies of the game off of one video and that's where the money is. And you know? And that's a huge point right there, right? Because why do people respond to It's him. Everyone likes him first and foremost. And there's an authenticity to him picking the game that he's going to play and play it. That's where the entertainment value comes in, right?

That's where the eyeballs are when you talk about marketing right now. And that's why when I talk about the YouTube audience, yeah, I look at it. It's a vast sea of creators. But really, it is the most single, probably most powerful marketing force in the planet right now. Like if you're looking at the history of the big media outlets, like how many of them are left? How powerful are they really? As opposed to the millions of creators out there that are one by one evangelizing your brand. They're choosing to share your brand in a very authentic and a very fun and a very simple way with their audience and you're trying to get in the middle of that.

Be careful. It's dangerous. You're flirting with potential disaster because as we see it in multiple times, if the internet decides they don't like you, holy shit. Like creators could band together and just be like, we're not doing this anymore. And boom, like Greg was saying, where are people going to go to see your products? Brick and border stores are going out of business.

like magazines don't exist anymore like where what are your opportunities to market this to in an authentic genuine way not hey we're paying someone to do this and you know lord knows we all love that when someone's like hey i'm getting paid to make this generic video that no one gives a shit about um that's all i have to say about that yeah i mean for me like just thinking about like star wars fan films right like or you take a property and then you make a fan film of it and then it gets taken down like that video game fan projects and all this shit it's just like From the beginning, you're just, you're not allowed to do it. And if people do support it, then it's like, all right, cool.

But I just don't understand getting mad at it. Remember also, from the beginning, you weren't allowed to do YouTube. YouTube was 100% illegal from the get-go. It was a place where people were essentially pirating streams of videos. That's what I'm saying. That's not true. YouTube is legal. What you put on it.

Correct. But YouTube, when YouTube first launched, I looked at it and everyone looked at it. It was like, Jesus, this is like the next iteration of Napster. Like, this is a huge, huge, huge. like X, like this should not be allowed to happen. And they were in huge legal turmoil right before Google bottom. And now what used to be illegal is now commonplace, right? And this people that are smart were like, it's still illegal.

It's still illegal, but the people that are smart, we're like, instead of fighting against this giant tidal wave, maybe we should be figuring out the correct way to utilize it to our benefit. And that's what a lot of people have done. And I think Nintendo, to their credit, is trying to do that. But I think there's got to be a better way to do it. It reminds me just of music in the sense that, you know, like you go to YouTube and you, you know, I'm just as an example, I know, a huge 311 fan or whatever. They have a huge touring audience, right?

And like, so when people put the videos up, even high quality old Coddy Villas, they're not going to go after you because it's like, well, our money's made in ticket sales. So what if someone comes, we can either, we can go and have our label, go after all these people and have all their videos taken down. Or maybe someone sees a live version of down or whatever and they come to see us, you know? And we make $20 or $30 off of them when it would have taken us thousands and thousands of views. another video to get $20 or $30 out of someone. So it's like, it's just, it's, the legality's not a problem for me. It really is like the intelligence behind, behind it, especially in a competitive marketplace where frankly, Nintendo is losing, you know, that's the biggest part.

That's the biggest, the craziest part about it. Wii U has sold like nine and a half million units, you know? So if people are playing Wii U and evangelizing, we've certainly sold Wii U just by its playing smash by the, we get the tweets from people, you know what I mean? So like, that's helping them. It doesn't make any sense. It's like a brash and arrogant move for. from a company that should have no business being brash and arrogant.

You know? And that's, and that's the most confusing part of it out of all for me. It's not even the advertising thing. Some companies will get it. Some companies do get it. How many copies of Dying Light sold because we streamed it or because, and imagine if someone like PewDiePy played Dying Light.

We're, you know, we're just starting out at this. And we have an awesome audience of best friends that we love very much. But yeah, we get those tweets, right? Saw you play, I'darb and I bought it or, you know, got it for free off, games for gold.

Everybody says that. And then, yeah, dying light. I, you know, bought this, you know, after watching your stream, we get that all the time. And that's what they're going to lose out on. You know what I mean?

Being able to win somebody over, I feel like, especially if they go this way, like you're talking about with Jim, if they go down this EA route, what you think would be an evil EA decision. I'm using air quotes if you're listening to the podcast because EA isn't evil and it's stupid that everybody keeps voting them evil. I agree. Let's also remember this.

You brought up the fanfic or the fan film, that fan films that people used to do back in there and still do to the state. You're not making any money. off of that, really. No, but I mean, like, for the people that are, the people selling it. Sure, but that's the difference. You totally are making money off. You're making, okay, you're making, the exact same way let's plays are.

You're making money off, but you're not making money like Bernie's making money off of the Halo license, right? Where he had to go to them, get the halo license, and now we can do Redd versus Blue and sell DVDs and Blu-Rays, and he must be making hundreds of thousands of dollars off that potentially. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the facts.

That's different than, I mean, look at the average metrics on a let's play video. We're making what? 10 bucks off of that? So they're going to come in and take. $3 out of that? Like what, I don't know, it's not enough of an incentive

for us as creators to be like, shit, we really need your product. In reality, we can make, like to us, it's pretty much even.

It's just all about what we're passionate. And we can go find other games we're passionate. But yeah, but if we're getting 70% of it, like, then we're just losing out of 30%. So you say,

say $10, right? Okay, $5 goes toward to YouTube. Then we split the other 70%, so we get about $3 per video. Versus if we're going to go play another game, we get $5 to video. I mean, we're just going to go play another game.

That's what's going to happen. That's what I'm saying. To me, it's like, whatever, it's $2. Like, I understand that that makes sense, but it's like, if we want to play the Nintendo games. Sure, but then it's $2 times the loss of efficiency of having to get every single one of our videos approved. Are you kidding with that? Exactly. Like, what kid sitting in his basement in Minnesota is going to be like this?

I hope this one gets approved and waits to make a shit ton. Like, for that example, that's a bad example, because the kids sitting in the basement, that's all they want. To then, they see this as support from Nintendo, not as being held back. I don't know. I'm interested in that. And that standpoint, because I haven't dealt too deep into it, but I don't see anyone being positive about this, like, at all. Like, I don't, like, from the things I've read and some, people are like, this is assonide.

Yeah, but the people that are responding, the people that are talking about this are the ones that are just completely uninformed and are just, like, angry, to be angry about something. Or it's the people that this is affecting, like us. Like, it is the YouTube creator who are upset, and that makes total sense. But for all the random kids, now they have a guarantee that they're getting, they're protected by Nintendo. They're getting 70% when before they weren't. But that's what I'm saying, though. Like if I never worked.

It sounds like we want a liquor store in the coming. But that's the thing though. It's like they're being, they are, they know that they can get that. So that that is a, it's a guarantee to them. They know, as long as this lasts. I understand that. But also they say that the terms can change unilaterally whatever they want.

But, yeah, but I'm sorry to interrupt. It's just like there are, you know, we had Megaran on earlier and we know Megarand. When we was on podcast beyond, he was talking about how Capcom support. He was scared. In fact, he talked about how he called himself Megaram because he didn't like, he was known as random, him, but he was afraid, like, if he was sampling Capcom music, which he was, that maybe he would get in trouble.

And Capcom ended up coming to him, and they were like, no, this is like, great. Because they realized that, like, what if someone falls down the rabbit hole and is like, oh, that beats awesome. That beat from Wiley's awesome. That's Megamand 2's Dr. Wiley theme. Oh, Mega Man 2. I'm playing Mega Man 2 in a while, and then they go and buy it. And so they were all over it.

It's the same reason why Mega Man, we were talking about fan films. Capcom lets you make fan games. Mega Man Cross Street Fighter is a fan-made authorized Mega Man game that they help put out. Because they're not going to make Mega Man games. No. that's true. Well, they will eventually. Or Mega Man Unlimited, where they're basically like, well, we can make a Mega Man game when we did. We just made Mega Man 9 and 10 and all this kind of stuff.

But that's pretty cool that you care about it. And it's just good for our brand and it gets people excited about it. To me, to me, that's just a no-brainer. Again, they're doing their thing and that's fine. The good news about Nintendo doing this is it's not that disastrous for kind of funny or other people out there because they only release a few games of any consequence every year. So it's like, we'll miss out on Zelda and Star Fox or something like that this year. theoretically but what if the bigger disaster and I don't know like where everyone falls like all the

publishers fall on this they probably have some rules that they probably just don't follow up on and everyone has the different rules but if like EA or Sony or Activision or Ubisoft if they all started doing that then we'd be in a lot of trouble the good news is that all of them do it's just not like no one cares because they talk about it for one week and then it falls away and just no one cares about anymore but we're seeing it so what we really feel like that's not going to be the case here as well I honestly dude I don't think this is going to affect much of anything when it comes to us, like, I could be totally wrong about this. But like, for any of the major players that get into a network, like collective or maker or any of them, they have totally different rules.

So then it's like, we can talk to them. They have different connections with all these different people. Then it's like, well, we get a different split. Then all of a sudden it makes sense. I just, the concept of control I have an issue with when it comes to YouTube. Because the platform is fundamentally based on freedom. It's fundamentally based on creation in its pure estate. And when you start having people come in and say, hey, we're going to approve different things for you.

You are cutting out what makes, you're basically cutting out the thing that makes what we do special, which is that we get to do whatever we want to do whenever we want to do it. And there's a power to that. And that's how why YouTube is the dominant platform. But it's like selling a painting without buying the paint. Like you were using someone else's paint to make some. By old definition of how we've always thought things should happen, yes, you're 100% right. Again, no one's arguing the legality of it.

It's the spirit of the law that people need to be really, that Nintendo really needs to look at and say, what are we doing by imposing these harsh restrictions on these content creators? Are we going against the grain of what YouTube and what really all of us stand for, which is we're not TV for the last 60 years, where we have to go through all these approval processes

and you have to make sure that your product's represented correctly and it's not, you know, there's all these rules and regulations. We're the opposite of that, which is why we're so valuable. It's because people look at us because we love what we do and we love the products we put in front of them as influencers. And if we start taking a step back to that and taking a back seat to these big companies, then we will no longer have that much sort of power with our audience.

We'll basically just be another, we will be seen as an arm of marketing for Nintendo and for Activision. And that's a question I have here. This isn't, is this in the question? Is this happening yet? Are people signed up? Are the approval process happening? Do we know anything about the approval process?

Because if I'm playing smash, I'm like, oh, man, links down B sucks. And then they're going to see that and be like, you can put this video up, but you can't say that. There's a lot of questions about, like, wrote about reviews or what about all the same of this. And can they take it down? I mean, that's the thing. They can. They are allowed to do all that. We'll see if they actually do.

And that, like, all this is a very slippery slope. And, like, at the end of the day, I don't want people to misunderstand what I'm saying. Like, I don't agree with this. And I think Nintendo is doing it wrong. And I wish they took a different approach. We're just like, hey, sign up for this program. We just fucking support it. Yeah.

You know, we are going to protect you and you are going to get 100%. Go market our games and go have fun. That's what I think they should do. But I'm just saying, I think that people that are like, fuck you. That's just, that's the wrong approach too. For the people who are like, fuck you, I think they are ignoring the fact that this is at least a step forward. As before when it was, we own everything, lock, stock and barrel. At least now they are trying to work with you, give you 70%.

I give them that. I still agree fundamentally, again, fundamentally, yes, they own the product. They made the thing. It's something that's so weird to talk about because you're talking about the paint and the painting and all this different stuff when it's like it's a platform. And then what happens in a smash match is because of us, not because it's this weird. It is weird. There's no way,

there's no right or wrong to it. But I understand what you're saying, and I agree that legally they own it. But yeah, again, it just seems like such a dumb decision. I have a question and then a comment. The question is, so Activision, Ubisoft, and everyone all have these kind of rules.

Because that's what you said before. I don't say they all do. Because I've not heard that. I mean, maybe it's true, but I've not heard that. Well, that's thing, though, is like all the different companies, they all do have rules,

how they implement them and like where they're public, I don't know. How they enforce them. Yeah, exactly. But that's the thing, though. Like, every day people get copyright strikes for playing games, no matter what it is. Whether it's the music and Assassin's Creed or some other stuff. And I get the music some other thing, but it's just like, but Ubisoft could go in and be like, oh, no, no, no, no, no.

The music is protected through whatever, but they don't. But could I mean, could they? Because, I mean, that just seems like a YouTuberer because he could just upload the Assassin's Creed soundtrack. And then that's a giant problem, obviously. Yes, but they could put in the whitelist thing for that and all this. What I'm saying is like, there's. so much that goes into this and there's so many facets in so much different ways. But when we look at the, like last night I looked because I was like, are we getting dinged

for this? We are not. We're just straight up not. The 100% thing, it hasn't been affecting us. We've been playing some Astros. So I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I also think, I also think that I don't know that they know how big of an uphill battle this is to actually enforce all this stuff. I mean, you need an entire division of your company to actually do this and work with YouTube and work with these individual creators. You're going to tell me that I'm going to submit a video. I am one of how many content creators are creating. content around Nintendo and those videos are going to each and every one of those is going to get scrutinized and approved it's not going to happen and you're talking about thousands of videos a day

that need to get approved that's I mean again you know I've seen this I've seen it time and time again because YouTube is such a new platform we all forget about it but seven years is a drop in the hat when it comes to media um the drop in the pond rather that comes media of dropping a hat would be a little bit better my hat's wet well who put this drop of water in my hat um but yeah I mean I think they're biting off a lot more than they can chew and I think a lot of these other companies have been through this rigmarole already where they're like, oh, we're going to start charging people and like, holy shit, this is. And then they back the fuck off.

Even to manage partners. When we used to work at IGN, we've managed partners like individual channels. It's a full-time job. Well, it's managing channels. Yeah. So you get 60% for videos. You literally need hundreds, if not thousands of employees to do this. So good luck.

Because you're going to get bogged down with this so fast. They're just going to forget about it. And I just want to dispute one fact because I disagree with something Greg said, which was that, like, it's a step in the right direction. But that's like walking into a toilet, like into a bathroom and peeing all over the toilet. And then like, and then taking a napkin and cleaning it up and being like, well, it's clean now. It's like, but you just pissed on it. You know what I mean?

I do it every day. The toilet was already clean, you know? Like you defiled the toilet. And then you cleaned it back up and you're like, well, now it's better. But it's like the condition. A step towards being clean, which would be a step in the right direction. It is a step in the right direction. The defense wreck.

He just said it is. No, but the point is that the condition was made by them because, again, I just, I dispute their opening sentence. The rule is the rule. Yeah, but a lot of record labels and gaming companies don't do anything about those rules. Yeah, but even more do. Like when it comes to record labels or movies and all this stuff, like games are just different because it's weird and it's a new thing. Yeah.

That's one of those things where it's like, yeah, we are making the content. But that's like it's the exact same thing as doing a movie commentary over movie footage. It's like, yeah, the content you're giving them is your commentary, but you were using their footage. Like. But see, like, this is where, this is one of the things. So you didn't like my 12-ball. This is spiraling off into a different direction, of course, but I don't even feel it's the same,

because the movie will be the same movie you watch each and every time. Whereas even with the story-based linear game of Uncharted, the way I take down this enemy is going to be different than how Nick takes down this enemy, and when you're getting into something like Smash, the way we fight is, you know what I mean? And again, I'm not, this isn't where, I don't want to fight this fight,

I'm not trying to take this hill. I'm just saying that that's what I always think about when you watch somebody play, when you look at somebody on Twitch watching us play games. They go and buy dying light, not because they want to relive the exact same moment we had and we took down those guys with the giant sledgehambers. No, they want to go and have their own story in their own world and their own thing. Whereas, like, yeah, me watching Fast and the Furious through YouTube off of somebody's stream or whatever

would be me watching the exact same movie. You know what I mean? I wouldn't go get that movie where I would go get that game. Yeah. I mean, it's such a new platform and all these, like, there's the South Park episode that covered lessplayers. Like, they really nailed it on the head. Like, did you guys see that? I mean, it's like the idea of why would

He brings home the new call of duty And his little brother just doesn't want to play Because he's just watching it, right? And I feel like a lot of the game companies, Nintendo Included probably look at that And they're like, oh, people are doing this They're just not going to buy the game They're not understanding this

And like that, but here's the thing though It's like we're talking about like, oh yeah, we're selling games But how many games are they not selling? Because there are other people that are like I'm not going to play, I just want to watch. But those are people I don't think you could win to begin with. Those are the people who showed up last night to watch me played criminal girls

invite only knew they weren't going to buy criminal girls but they wanted to check it out and I'm sure you sold a couple copies exactly and that's the thing you get there's that one percent right if you can get one percent of this audience to go do that that's something but then here's the business argument is okay that one percent does that add up to how much money they are going to make from the

YouTube revenue yeah right and that's just business and I understand it's business for right now not for later and again I wish Nintendo didn't do this it's fucking stupid I do think it's a step in the right direction that I do think at the core of it is Nintendo trying to be cool but they're just they're the fucking old weird uncle of it. It can't be cool, but he's trying.

And he's doing it the wrong way, and he's putting his hands in places he shouldn't be Oh, Uncle Nintendo, no. Here's the worrying thing about it. It's not that, you know, Nintendo, like, again, no one disputes the legality of it. It's the wisdom of it, right? And here's the, here's the frustrating part about it to me. Nintendo's a company with a lot of prestige and a lot of power to make great games, right? They don't make many games anymore, but the games that they come out are great. That's one of the reasons why I'm not so worried about this if they come after us in some point in the future, we'll just won't cover your games anymore. But to me, it's like now the other publishers in first parties are looking at this and they can do one of two things, right?

They can be like, this is a terrible idea. Look how people are beating up on Nintendo. We are cool for not doing this. And this is what I think, and just based on how Sony's treated everything the last two years, I think that they're going to take that tact. In my opinion. To be like, they probably have some rules somewhere. To be fair, though, no one's like, when I say no one, I'm saying it lightly, but people aren't playing Sony games on Let's Place. We're waiting for them to come out.

But that's such a small, small, small, small, small, small, small. sphere. Like, let's plays are mobas, they are Minecraft style games, they are first person shooters and Nintendo games. But I mean, this goes back to the fact of, like, not to cut you off either, buddy. It's fun. The story-based game of how many people played through the left

behind and put it up in Last of Us, right? That is even more, I think, in tune with this argument, right? Of that, that is a story. Like, the fact that you can Google uncharted cutscenes and get the entire uncharted game told in cutscenes, right? Like, that is a thing and maybe, yeah, sure, they aren't as big as the mobas It is definitely a thing, but it is, if you, the pie chart, it's ridiculous, like how big the sectors are for Nintendo or the things I just said.

But the point I'm trying to make regardless of, like, how who's doing it and how they're doing it is that my assumption is that in Sony will be like, no, we are for the gamers. This is what we've been doing when a game actually worth streaming comes out, which there hasn't been many, like from the first party in a long time, maybe infamous or something like that. Then, we're just going to let them do uncharted and all that kind of stuff. Microsoft seems like they actually have some stringent rules as far as I understand. So we're going to see like when gears and Halo come out, how that all all shakes out. The thing I'm saying is that it worries me if they can see if, if EA and Ubisoft and all these companies, regardless of the rules, and it seems like it's nebulous, maybe they have rules and they don't enforce them, is that they can literally all gang up on everyone, you know?

And that's the worrying thing where we'd be like, we're all going to, like, we're all going to do it, you know? And that could screw everything up or companies deviate in the other direction and like, this is a bad idea, you know? And then Nintendo's like, you're right. And that's like what I hope happens is that I think that I do think That's what's going to happen

There's also the issue of collective bargaining Right where you have okay they go Great they go all in and then all the big MCNs go Okay well now we need to negotiate these Because for all of our creators who are by the way The top tier creators you're top tier creator You're probably partnered up with an MCN Yeah they'd have to negotiate

Which I know that in the past I've seen that have to happen where you're like look What's good for these individual contributors is not going to work for us We have legitimate business to run Let's figure out a better rate Where we can license you games in perpetuity, but not for 30% of our revenue. 30% of the 50% we get.

Right. It needs to be like, it needs to be more like 5% or 10% max. And then, yeah, that's just free money. Why wouldn't they go for that? Yeah, I mean, it's just so interesting because I was fascinated by this, not because I was worried about it because there are Nintendo-centric channels that are going to be really affected by this and I feel bad for them because they're going to, they are going to lose a lot of money off this.

If you're a big Nintendo channel that has millions of viewers and stuff like that, you're going to be screwed off this. The, the, because they're basically just taking 30% of your money. I mean, that's like basically what's happening, as opposed to the 100% of the money in the condition that they created. And so, you know, it's just, it's just weird to me that it's a conversation of not legality, but again, as Nick was saying, of wisdom. And what is the wisdom saying? What does the data say? Because surely these companies have data.

Maybe Nintendo has data like you were insinuating that says, like, when someone watches someone play Smash Brothers, they don't buy Smash Brothers. But I don't, that doesn't make sense to me because you were bringing up a game like Minecraft. Like, Minecraft is Minecraft because of. YouTube. You know what I mean? Like, and so all you have to do is look at a game like that and everyone can dream. All the devs and publishers can dream of having a game like Minecraft, which grew because of word of mouth, not because of anything else. It was made by like a few people. You know? So like, and now it's like one of the top five best selling games of all time because of the YouTube generation sharing it with each other. And that's so like they just have to,

hopefully they take, you know, their, you know, their blinders off and realize like, hey guys, like this doesn't affect so much Smash Brothers to me or Star Fox or Zelda. What it really says to me is like, think about the residents of Super Metroid, of us just playing Super Metroid and talking about. We just did a very brief let's play and introduced our video game book club for Super Metroid. Dude, we've sold for them, I would say scores the copies of that game, you know? And like, because people, we get tweets every day, me like, I'm ready, I'm done, I'm done, and I'm playing it's so hard or I'm really enjoying it.

It's not that good or whatever their opinions are. But us talking about the game and as limited way we have with this limited reach that we have because we are very small compared to a lot of these great creators out there. The money is in game sales. Just like the money in concert or money of music is in concerts, not record sales. That's why a lot of these bands let their live footage stay on YouTube. So it's just, it's the long game. You've got to play the long game.

And again, that's what I'm saying is that once you start going through that rabbit hole, where does it stop? Because the power of what we're doing is that we're not trying to sell games. That's not our business. We're not out here trying to sell games for people. We're just out here doing, playing games that we love. and if other people want to partake in them, should they go choose to go buy that game,

that's their prerogative, right? I don't think we've ever said, go buy this game right now, go by this game right now. DC Universe Online, go by that game right now. Jesus, yeah, keep telling that flag. But yeah, I mean, it's just, it really does come down to, are you a company that wants to survive

in this new wave of doing, a new way of doing things, or are you really, really stuck to the old way, you know? And there's got to be some in between. I get that they're, you know, in any negotiation, you go 100% in one direction and then you try to meet in the middle. My hope is that Nintendo wants to meet the middle on some level. Otherwise, they are going to be asking out a lot of people, a lot of good content creators from showcasing their brand. But if that's the case, then so be it.

It is what it is. And I also think, you know, this comes back to anyone who's read a lot about Nintendo and has been with Nintendo as long as, you know, some of us, everyone at this table has. And I certainly have been. You know, we learn a lot from Game Over, Console Wars and books like that. Like, Nintendo's always been a company obsessed with control. And guess what? It's not working. you know what I mean like it alienated third parties it did all you know it alienated your user base

it did all these things it's not working yeah you know I mean like like so it just it all comes back to that central tenant of control it worked when you were the only kid on the block I see that NSNS you were not the only kid on the block anymore that and that's the big problem that's the hard thing with this new generation of creators is that it's a leap of faith you don't really know I don't know if there are I'm sure there's companies out there that you can pay millions of dollars they'll give you those hardcore analytics but at the end of the day it's It's almost instinctual. You just have to kind of take it on instinct that it's working, that this method of delivering

your message to the audience works better than the old school methods that you've been used to for the last 50 years. It's, I mean, if you look at how things have been marketed to people, like there has been a huge uptake and a huge shift over to YouTube content creators because there is a more authentic experience, right? But that's definitely scary because you don't have any control of that. You don't have any control of what comes out of a column we already. mouth. No one puts Kalamoriariariari out of corner.

No one can control one of the best things about Calumoriardi is that he can't be put in a box. He can't be put in a box. We established that already. It's like a cat. Just arms all out. Let me tell you this. If someone managed to get you in a box, that is not a box that I would want to unpack, my friend. I would not want to unpack that box. If someone puts me in a box, is it a box at all? Think about that.

Fuck. I don't even understand what that means. Inceptioned. All right, guys. He can't be putting a box and he's putting a box. It is in a box. That's what it means. Holy shit. Okay. It's a prison cell of left. So we're going to move on. that was riveting and we talked way longer than I expected this too but that was good it was fun we have you know we have things we need to say about this it's fresh it's very frustrated dude

it all comes I know you want to move on to him I'm just gonna I'm just gonna finish with this like it all comes back to my eternal frustration with that company these days about how much I want them to win me back and how much I want to give them money and how much they just keep telling me they don't care you know I mean like they're just they're just a question they just they just make questionable decisions over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and I just It's so frustrating. It's like, Nintendo, I want you, I want you to come back into my life. I want you to, where are, where are you at?

Nintendo. Where are you at, Nintendo? Where are you at, Nintendo? Where you at. All right. Second topic for today is the Star Wars Humble Bundle. So you guys familiar with Humble Bundle, right? I am.

Okay, cool. Greg, do you want to, do you want to explain it to people a little bit? Humble Bundle is a service where they bundle together a bunch of games for a very, very low price. So it's kind of name your price. And so for this, for, if you just pay whatever, whatever you want, you get Star Wars Night's the Old Republic, Star Wars Jedi Night, Jedi Academy, or Star Wars Jedi Night Jedi Academy, and Star Wars Dark Forces. Then if you go a little over $10, you also get Star Wars Battlefront 2, Star Wars

Night's the Old Republic 2, and Republic Commando. And then for $12 and more, you also get Force Unleashed, the Ultimate Sith Edition, Force Enleash 2, and Star Wars Emperor at War. So what's cool about this to me is that everyone's all excited. Star Wars is back, the movie's coming out, we know Battlefront's coming out. Star Wars has a great lineage in video games. Yeah. And I feel like all of us at some point enjoyed a Star Wars game.

Oh, yeah. Maybe not some of those. Maybe some of those. I'm not sure. Kidding me? Yeah. Swortor's on that list. Which one? Of course one of those.

Swartor. Oh, yeah, yes, yes. I've never heard it referred to as that. Swartor? Cotor. I heard Cotor. I'm putting swatour out there. Man.

I'm actually confusing. There's something else it is Swatour. Cotor is what I'm trying to say. Cotor. Yeah. Yes, I know. We've covered the fucking fact. Yes.

Thank you very much. Okay, okay, okay. Wow. Kotor is my question to you guys is, what are your favorite Star Wars game memories? And what are you excited? Are you guys excited for Battlefront? My favorite Star Wars games, Kotor is a great game. But my favorite Star Wars games are the Super Nintendo Star Wars games.

Really? Yeah, those are extraordinary games. And I think I want to feel like what's so weird about them is not Star Wars. The first one was kind of crap. Super Star Wars, Super Empire, Super Jedi. I think they got better out. actually as they went along. And I feel like JVC and some like weird, weird people were behind these games.

Like totally random. The television people? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like they published them and they were, and they were, I might be remember. I think that's true. And I remember my brother had all three of those games. We'd play them.

They're hard. And I feel like they, it's interesting to play a 2D limited, technically limited game like that that tries to retell the entire story. So you're like, there's a stage where you're like on the sand crawler. Like you're never on the sand. really on the sand crawl, except for like as 3PO and R2, but like you're on it somehow. We should go back and play those.

I've been thinking about a lot. I feel like they might be on virtual console. I'm not positive about that. I don't think they are. I feel like, yeah, I thought that maybe they were because I'd like to, I have them and I don't know where the hell they are. They're back home. But those games were really good and they were hard and they changed a lot, which was really

cool. They reminded me a little bit of the G.I. Joe games. I don't know if you guys played the tax in G.I. Joe games on N. No. There was two of them. They were actually made by different developers. And you would pick a different character. you can play snake eyes,

place Duke or whatever, and the game kind of changed depending on who you played as. In this game, and the Star Wars games, you know, there was different feels to the game and different ways you went about things.

I remember those games being extraordinary, and I don't, you know, I had Ty Fighter and I had X-Wing and all these games on my PC. I didn't really into those kinds of games. I just wasn't really my kind of game. I mean,

I admire and respect the hell out of those games. That's where you're flying in space, right? Fight and stuff? Yeah. But then I didn't really fall in love with games again until like Rogue Squadron. And then, and then Cotor. Cotor, come on.

Am I excited about Battlefront? I am, but the last time we played Battlefront was on PSP. Yeah. I reviewed it. And I just don't like multiplayer. Like, it's just, if it's multiplayer-centric and whatever. That's my big concern with Battlefront. If it is a continuation that's just multiplayer, it won't just be multiplayer, I'm sure.

But if it was, the PSP ones were fine. But yeah, I mean, nice to the old republic. Come on. That's what motivated me to buy my Xbox. That was one of the big ones is why I bought the Xbox. Is Halo and then that? I mean, dude, I didn't even care about Halo. I was just so into it.

what I went to a friend's house and played for like 10 minutes. I was like, holy shit, this is awesome. I never played Knights the Old Republic. I did play Jedi Knight. I played all of, because I was a big PC game back in the day. So I played, I think what was it? Dark Forces. Yeah, there was two of those, I think. Not, yeah, whatever the, there was, Kyle Katarum was

one of the main characters in one of them. And then there was Dash Rendar, which I think he was, Shadows the Empire. That was Shadows the Empire. So Kyle Katarim must have been, he was Jedi Knight for sure. I can't remember who you played as in that first piece. I got to look this up. But yeah, I was obsessed with X-Wing, obsessed with Thai Fighter.

And I always remember this story, my good friend Clay Wilkinson back in the day. Shout like, he's a lawyer now, lives in LA, was like, you gotta put this, this is awesome. Started playing and I was like, this game is terrible because I was playing with a keyboard mouse and he's like, no, no, no, no, no, you can't. The mouse for some reason wasn't responsive. You gotta get a flight stick. So I went and I got one of these badass like, you know, $200 flight sticks. I had to save up for all ever.

And it just changed the game completely. And from that, because I was huge in the Ace of the Pacific and, like, Red Bear in all those games. So X-Wing was amazing. Ty Fighter, I played a little bit less because they started putting a couple other different mechanics in there. And then when, I think it was Dark Forces. I got to look this up. Dark Forces came out, and it was the first first-person shooter that they did. It was like, it was like Doom.

It was on rail, not on Rails, but you couldn't, you didn't have an XY access. You just kind of were here. That was amazing because I remember you'd get the thermal nuclear detonator and just throw that bad boy out and just wreck fools. and that was the precursor to Jedi Knight. When Jedi Knight came out, that was the fully realized you can do first person or third person, and you had the lightsaber. And not only did you have the lightsaber, but you had the lightsaber and you could deflect shit with it. And I just, hours was like, who's coming at me?

Oh, what's you got? What's you got, dog? You got nothing? I got nothing. Because no one could touch you if you had the damn lightsaber, and you just kind of stayed prone and, like, aimed it toward it. That was dope. And you had the force powers, too, which was cool.

And it was one of the first times that they let you do, you got to choose whether or not you're going to go light or dark. And so you played the game twice because you played all. I wanted to get all the way light and all the way dark. I didn't want that mix. The mix is bullshit. No. You got to go all the way light or all the way dark. You can max all your force powers.

So those games, those early, early LucasArts games were amazing. I didn't play the one with Star Killer, though, either of those. Oh, Force Unleashed. Force Unleashed. They were fun, but they were like popcorn. You just blew through them. They were, you know, I mean, there was nothing really to it. You're smashing shit, killing shit.

I liked them. They were fun. They're enjoyable. Yeah, exactly. I know people that love them. Really? Kevin loves those games. Yeah.

They're beautiful. See, I was a little... Because the same Whitwer. I was a little too young for the PC games for all that because I remember the kid across the street had all those and like I remember he loved them so much. He kept trying to get me into them, but I just couldn't wrap my head around it

because I was a dumb little kid. You don't know. But the Super Nintendo games, I loved those. But I worry that they don't hold up because a lot of the 2D platformers that aren't Mario or like the core stuff for Super Nintendo, when you go back and play a lot of the Disney games

like Lion King and Aladdin and stuff that you remember and you're like, those are amazing. You play them just feel super floaty and all that. And I worry that Star Wars. would be out 40 than I wanted to be. I think I played through those games like twice a piece. I remember the first, I remember

playing Empire Strikes Back first and going, oh my God, this is amazing. Then I played Jedi and then for some reason I got my hand. I don't know why. I always did this shit out of order. The opening of Jedi was hard as shit. I just remember that. I just remember that like speeder thing. Yeah, sculptured, I was looking it up. First of all, the games are on virtual console. So I'm going to be... Oh, really? Yeah, I'm going to be... I remember

that clearly that they put those up. I will play for those with you. Yeah, and I feel like we should do play-thrus of those for sure. But yeah, it's the defunct studio, but Sculpture Software had teamed up with LucasArts to do these games and they were around since 85 and they did a shit ton of games but those were I think

that they did like the Punisher on Genesis and WWF Raw on Genesis so like a bunch of random ass games but they did the Doom Port for S&E so they were basically like a porting studio but they yeah those games were special but Cotaur was the last game that came that Star Wars except for I really liked Rogue Squadron 3 on

GameCube which was which was 3. Yeah well I was talking about in the time of Cotor because squadron came out fall 2003 if I remember correctly or early 2004 Kotor came out in the summer of 2003 and I remember I bought my Xbox just to play Kotor and I wrote the guide for IGN for it to pay for the Xbox because I was nothing really on Xbox that was intriguing me at the time I ended up going

back to play Hale and all that kind of stuff but I bought it to play Kotor because I'm like this game's great and it was obviously great beautifully realized you know bioware RPG and you know it wasn't the last great Star Wars game I really remember that's why I brought up was Rogue Squadron 3, which a lot of people hated because of the on-foot parts of the game. But I really enjoyed the hell out of that game. Like, it maybe wasn't the same as the other Rogue Squadron games, but I really enjoyed it. It reminded me the same reason why I kind of liked, like, like, Star Fox adventures and

stuff. I'm like, it's not the Star Fox game you want, but it's the Star Fox game you have. Oh my God. You know what I mean? It's not the Star Fox game you want. It's the Star Fox game you have. You know, I understand what I'm saying? I remember StarVent, quick tangent, paid for it with, with CoinStar, money.

Good. Yeah. Oh, you took all your change in? Yeah. Nice. And then I got the little receipt. I cashed it out and I went and bought Starbox Adventures. Man, I hope you enjoy it.

Also known as Dinosaur Planet. God. I'm not even going to get started on it. That's the fucking disaster. Where do you guys come down on Shadow of the Empire? Great game. Yeah. Before I owned it.

Oh, I don't even know if I ever actually bought it. I was going to say my memory of Shadow the Empire. Maybe I bought it later on eBay. I don't even remember. But there used to be a game. When I lived in New Hampshire, it was a place called Game Exchange. It was like an independent game store. And they used to go there and rent games all the time, buy games from them.

You bring, you know, as the name suggests, you exchange games with them. And I remember that was the only game. They had a thing in the back where you could rent an N64, rent the PlayStation and pay for like an hour at a time and play games. And that's the only game I ever did that for was, it was before I owned an N64. I think it was like 97-ish or something. Which one's the name, I don't remember this. It was the first N64 one. Oh, was it?

Yeah, I was thinking, did I own an N64 at this time? I remember. The only thing I remember is that I basically would rent by hour to play Shadows of the Empire. and I was because I was so riveted by it. And maybe it was because I couldn't afford the game. And, you know, to me it was a, it was a, it was kind of a motley mix of things in that game really when you go back and look at it, but a special game, I think. Yeah, I think the, well, yeah, I was just about to bring that up.

So, like, the Rogue Squadroom games, they're great. They never clicked with me, none of them. One, two, and three, all of them just felt they didn't feel like Star Fox, and that was the problem to me is like I wanted, like, it to feel just like Star Fox and it didn't, and that's my own makeup. But for me, the, The N64 and PlayStation era games, while they're not the best, are definitely my favorites. Like, I have such fond memories of horrible games like Star Wars Episode 1, Phantom Menace on PlayStation.

Like, I played through that so many times just because, and I feel like everyone my age had that game and, like, remembers that game. Yeah. But fucking Episode 1 Racer. Holy shit. Right. That game is legitimately fun. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. It's a fun game.

Like, there's so much like quirks to it, being able to do that, the race from the movie. And it was like, it was the exact same course. That's awesome. And, like, you can hook up two N64 controllers and, like, control it like, he actually did. Yep. And, like, you just pretend Subalba's next to you and just, like, talk in the accent and do all this. Ani. Yeah, exactly.

It was just riveting. Simply. And that was the one, too, where they hidden, there was a hidden episode two ship in it, right? And when episode two came out, they revealed the code or whatever to unlock it or something like that. I think that was Starfighter. Okay. That you're talking about PlayStation 2. Am I thinking of a 1-2,

in this time period of the episode 1, 2, 3 time period on PlayStation 1. Jedi fucking power battles. Yes. Okay. You can play, I played through that one a lot.

So to me, it all led up to that. Jedi Power Battles is my favorite Star Wars game of all the time. It is, I just, I love it. I played so much.

You could level up to like level 100 or whatever. Yep. And it had like light RPG elements. You get to choose who you go in. You level them up and you could be Mace window. You could be Obi-Won.

Quigon. Quigon Jin. We have a, Some chick, I don't remember the chick, or my boy Plu Koon, who Brian Albert knows all about. We had a, me and my friend Michael Brian, had a theory about Quigon Jin that he wasn't really dead and that he was actually a Sith or something like that. Because if you remember, in episode one, he gets stabbed and doesn't disappear. Yeah. And somebody asked George Lucas in an interview, what's to deal with that?

And Lucas, of course, like, it's going to be explained. Don't worry. It's a story. It's something to the story. Everybody's like, oh. And then in Jedi Power Battles, Quigon was super weak. and we're like this is another this is another Easter egg

this is tied into why he didn't disappear he's not a true Jedi none of it never met but that's like to the level we analyzed this game but those games I remember playing so much in the they were co-op

and they were so much fun they were glitchy as shit I don't think I've ever played a glitchier game oh yeah yeah I remember that too like the camera was horrendous and all that but I remember the save screen

was super confusing too because Poe overwrote my save at one point oh that's true it's like whatever but it was like I couldn't blame him because I know how screwed up

it was to get in to say you want to do this but not do that. I remember it was all screwed up. Man, it was good though. What I'm remembering, it's, it's so funny because I'm having like, I'm having a senior moment almost where I'm like, I don't know, it's just, it's unrelated, but related where I'm going so far back into my gaming memory now that I don't even remember like, like, I remember when games came out, but it's like, do you, like, when did I have these, like, when did I buy a console and like, when did I buy a game? Like, I don't know, I'm starting

to like forget. Yeah, you're saving over that information. I hear you. Like, you know, like, PS2 and GameCube, I remember really well, but everything before that, I'm like, it's like a blur of, like, like, like, like Toys R Us Isles and sheets in your hand, and I have like no idea when the hell everything was going on. But I think around the time, I say that because I think around the time that Shows in the Empire came out,

there was a PC game that came out that I bought for my Sony bio called Yoda Stories, which was the biggest piece of shit. Did you guys ever play this game? I never played your own. It was a randomly generated. We got to look at and play it. It was fun for like an hour,

but it's like a randomly generated like procedural game where like you are Yoda. on a random planet it's like kind of isometric if I remember correctly and like you walk around and like do side quests and then like it's just random you have to go find something in some place it's kind of like Chips Challenge and

like in some weird way and I think it was around the time of Shadows of the Empire and I remember not liking that game and the other game that I think came out later was a late PS1 game if I remember correctly was something Battle of Terescasi or Masters of Terracuse of the fighting game which was like the fucking worst and I remember that

I don't think that was late PS1 I think that was like 98 maybe 99. Well, I mean, it must have been, I think it was like mid because late would have been Jedi power battles. Yeah, that's a good point.

I look at PS1 is 95 to 2000 that time frame. So yeah, somewhere in the middle maybe. I remember that game coming out. I remember PSM, PlayStation Magazine talking about it and you can fight as plays BobaFet.

I remember being really excited about it. I remember renting that game. Oh, I rented it too. And being, because I'm like, I don't have the money to buy. I was buying so many JRPers at the time I had no fucking money. excuse me, and I was like, what the fuck is this?

I rented that and Beast Wars Transmedals, which was a Beast Wars fighting game on N64. I ran over at the same weekend, and it was just two horrible fighting games. Even as a kid, I knew that they were bad. And like, for some reason, it didn't affect my playthrus of fucking Phantom Menace. But, yeah, man. It's just incredible to me, like, the 95 to 2000 era is becoming this muddled disaster in my head. where I kind of know when things happen, but also kind of, I'm starting to forget. You know what I mean?

It's kind of scary. Like, I attach Yoda's story with shadows of the empire, but I'm not even sure if that's real. You know what I mean? Does Yoda's story exist? Like, it definitely does. I remember that. I remember buying that game and, like, busting my mom's balls to get it for me and so like that. I was like, I'm sorry, Mom.

Oh, that's great. Yeah, because it was around that, like, I played PC games for just a little while. It must have been around that same time. It's so weird, though. But it's easier for me to identify the early Super Star Wars games because that was, was in a much calmer part of my life when I did have my own money so I just got the games I got, but by the time you got into the mid-90s

and I had like, it was like mowing lawns and show like that. Buying consoles and games. It's a great time to come back into this conversation. Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like the only, the only thing I remember just specifically about that is when I got my PlayStation because I got her Final Fantasy 7. That's basically it. Yeah.

I remember that moment because I sold all my Super Nintendo games. From this moment. Mistake. Had to go back and buy them later. Hmm. I hate that. We all did that. Yeah.

Speaking, I mean, I sold one of my first, my first, my first copy of Pokemon Red, which was not my first Pokemon game. My first one was Blue, so I would have never sold my original game. But I sold my Red to Funkoland for Episode 1 Racer. That was a mistake. You had to do it. You got to make ends meet sometimes. I remember getting Pokemon Red just because all my

friends had Blue, and I was like, I don't want Blue. I like Blue better than Red, but I got to get red, and we got the Link Cable, and it all worked out in the end. But yeah, Funkoland was both a blessing and a curse. Yep. You know what I mean? Those newspapers, man.

Go through there. with your highlighter trying to figure out exactly how much money you'd be able to make net out to buy your X-Ns. That's a dead period man, it was awesome

I remember I remember how excited the last time I went to Funko Land before they they, I don't know when it happened but they sold themselves off to like EB or something

at some point. Yeah, they all got roped into that thing. And I remember that like a year or two before that happened that was the last time I went in and I got Mega Man 6

and that was a good moment for me. RIPP Funko-Lenla. That was a good moment. I just remember the logo that unnecessarily colorful Oh God, it was so,

The commercials were the hand came through with the money? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. All right, guys. Next topic. Kojima wants to make a open world remake of Middle Gear Solid One. But he says he's too busy.

And he says that no other studio has stepped up yet. Sorry, if you just heard scratching, it was because Colin was scratching his crotch. He's got something on there. I have a little ketchup for my lunch. I have eggs and rice for lunch. It's aptly placed right on top of your penis. It's a good place. It's one of my favorite places in the entire world.

I forgot. We're not doing the Gogh Show. Oh, it doesn't matter. Okay. That's fun. Okay. Anyways, yeah, so he wants to do this. Yeah.

Which isn't news. No, exactly. So far, he attached open, now, don't get me wrong, you know that I love Kijima. I'm not knocking this, and you let I love Middle Gear Solid. So I want this to happen. But in 2013, he made this announcement. He'd love another studio to work on it. In 2014, he talked about it again.

Now in 2015, here he is, and all he's done is added open world to it. Well, I think that's, to me, that's the biggest issue with this. because I wanted to do this. I definitely want a remake of Metal Gear Solid 1. We already got it with Twin Snakes. And it was amazing. I really liked Twin Snakes. I love Twin Snakes.

That's why I bought my GameCube. Twin Snakes was good. First person broke it. The Grey Fox Ninja Battle, you just stood on the side of the office and shot. Some motherfucker, by the way, I said that on Twitch. Then it broke the Grey Fox battle. I'm like, you mean Revolver Osloat? And I'm like, no, granted, same argument, but Grey Fox was really hard.

Revolver was never hard just running around the pillars with him. But now it made it. really easy. Exactly. Yeah, you just stood in one spot and then I picked him around. But like the Grey Fox, I remember me and Poe playing through the ninja battle forever. He's like sweat, like the giant beads of sweat as you're playing trying not to, and then like in this one, yeah, just run back into a locker

and just, yep, exactly. But, and also there's all the VEO change and stuff, which I never had that big of a deal with and all the ninja acrobats and stuff. People, you need to calm the fuck down. Rob Paulson came into play. What? Rob Paulson was a ninja in that game. Really? Greyfax. I didn't know that either, so somebody tweeted at me about it. Huh. I believe him.

That's pretty awesome. Yeah. Anyways, I would love a remake on the new gen. Jesus, yes. I think they'd look beautiful. I think it'd be a great play-thru for a lot of people that haven't played middle-gear one somehow. But you're all monsters.

This open-world idea. That's me. That's what doesn't make sense to me. It's all right, MGS-5's open world. Cool. That's going to be a new experience and stuff. You can't make Middle-Gar Solid One open world. Like Middle-Gar Solid One, it's like Resident Evil or it's like Metroid and all this stuff.

Where it's like Shadow Moses was a thing. Yeah. Like you are in a building. Are you remaking that? Like that's what he's saying. It's a complete remake. It doesn't exist, but yeah. He's saying he'd love the remake to be made, but also be open world.

That'd be awesome. And you're on Shadows Moses Island. It doesn't really make any sense, though. I mean, you could have the facility and then just be able to explore out into the island and have new buildings and facilities too. But that's the open world. That would require it to be metal your solid one plus all this other shit. And that just, it just makes no sense. But it could be like ground zeros where you're playing through one story.

That's the story. but then there's all these little side missions to go do or whatever to go off inside. And I'm not saying, don't know, I'm not saying it's an easy sell. I'm with you. That Metal Gear should be remade and probably just still be Metal Gear. Yeah, I think that, yeah, I mean, I agree with Tim. It doesn't make any sense unless the game's totally rewritten. Because the idea, it's great that you brought up Resident Evil, very astute, I think,

because Shadow Moses Island does remind me of the mansion in Resident Evil or the or Ishimora in Dead Space. Like, it's a place you exist in and go back and forth. him, but it's not really an open world, it's just a nonlinear space, like, like the castle in Castle in California or something. It's the, it's the, it's the, in Symphony of the Night or something, it's the same thing. You're backtracking all over the place. It's like, but it's, go through the same thing multiple times. You're familiar with the area. And it's like, oh, now you have this key, so you can go through this door, like, you, all these different things. I wonder if something was lost in translation with that, like, you know, with him. He's, I mean, he's making an

open world metal gear now, right? He is, but, yeah, he is, but, yeah, he is, but, he knows MGS well enough to know that that's not an open world game, so I'm wondering what the intent is, what he's saying. He's trying to entice people on it. No one's buying his product. No one's buying his pitchy selling. Look what happened to the last company that made a Metal Gear game. Yeah, they made one good game, and then they kept screwing up.

And nobody's biting on this, and I was trying to spruce up the deal. It's like when you're trying to sell your, it's like when you're trying to sell your friend, Tim, a vacuum. And the conversation's gone really cold after the first offer of buying the vacuum. And now you're like, you know what? I'll throw in an HDMI care controller. Open world vacuum. Wi-Fi. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think it's a matter of, of pacing, right?

Like, the beauty of Metal Gear Solid than me, and even over Metal Gear Solid, too, which I think is a better game, is the pacing of the game. Sure. How you run in, like, I'll never forget. I can see in my head as clear as day how you go through that game and how you encounter the enemies in the order, when you encounter Vulcan Raven or something like that, like where it happens. Your first introduction is sniper wolf. The sniper wolf.

The guy was just talking. Or when you see, or when you see the most beloved of all. all Metal Gear enemies, decoy octopus. I don't forget. Let's not forget. I've heard of her. You know, like, there's something special about moving through that game in a certain way. You're able to backtrack somewhat, but not always.

And, you know, it's about, it's, it's not like Mega Man where it's like you go in any order you want. And that's the thing that disturbs me when it's, when it's, they're talking about an open world metal gear game. It's, no, it's, it's, it's, it's revolver oscillat first, then it's Vulcan Raven. You know, like, you don't do them in the other. No, because I feel like you're getting more weapons. new weapons and different things. Like, the game works with a certain rhythm that I don't think works. I actually think Big Shell would be an easier place to do an open, like an open world-dish game

if you had multiple shells. But even then, it would rewrite the game itself. Like, Metal Gear games are not open world until four, or until five. Potentially, but I mean, open world is such a misleading term because you are working your way through a linear story. Like, most open-world games have a linear story. It's there a plot that you have to work your way through. Like, Grant the Bito had it, Fallout had it.

Everything has it. You are achieving objectives. one at a time, and they are coming one after each other. So I still think you can base a game like Metal Gear off of that. But yeah, you're right. You just have a bunch of crazy side quests that you probably don't need to do, or you can't go do, and they're just totally crazy, and people are going to spend millions of hours doing them and having fun with it.

Well, see, but that's Ground Zero. Like, that is that, and that is the story that Ground Zero has that is very just kind of, okay, there's a very thin thing happening. Sure. You've got to rescue this person. That's it. But with Metal Gear, it's like, the only reason you're in this place is to do this thing. and like outside of it, if there was weird,

like it'd be weird having side missions in the story of Metal Gear Solid 1. We're trying to stop nuclear war, but hey, can you please find my monkey? He got away with my Dreven points. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's just chilling. You know, they'll do something stupid.

But it just, yeah, it just doesn't make sense to do a remake of Metal Gear Solid 1 and add that stuff. Pardon the ignorance. Does Arkham Asylum count as an open world? No, right? That's kind of a linear, it's kind of a more enclosed. That's like the mansion. Yeah.

Arkansas City is an overall game. But Arkham Asylum is what my brain goes and thinks to, which is like you have sandbox, a little bit of a sandbox playing environment per each little moment and stage, but you're still kind of following through a linear path. You can go backward if you need you to go get new and achieve, like, you know, get bigger goals. Like, you know, you level up and go back

and finally get that weapon that you needed to pass. But it's not a true open-world experience. Maybe that's kind of what he wants to do with it. I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't sell you. No, I understand.

I understand what you're saying. I think my bigger hang-up is that I just don't think Metal Gear Sal needs to be touched again. Metal Gear Sal has already been remade, so move on. You know, like, metal- It really doesn't need to be. And like, even if we just got like recently saw Resident Evil remastered, yeah, that's what's called. Yeah. The remake remastered.

Yeah. If we just got Twin Snakes remastered, that'd be cool. Yeah, I'd be absolutely fine with that as well. The bigger hang up with that is the Nintendo published that game. Yeah. So that's not going to happen. So this is, this might be, this actually might, this would, this would, this we actually might be getting the core of the issue,

which might be that Kojima wants a new remake because he doesn't own the other remake. So he can't do anything with it. I think Silicon Knights was funded by Nintendo to do that game. And Kojima produced it. I mean, he definitely loves putting out freaking collections of metal gear.

He sure is. God bless. And he loves, and he has like a random obsession with, I mean, he has a random obsession, a lot of things obviously, but he likes going back randomly to old games.

I mean, they just patch trophies in the four last year, which is weird. You know what I mean? So like, it might just be on his mind like the original Metal Gear Solid just might be on his mind as he makes this new game but I would rather

I'd really, I think Metal Gear Solid 2 is the best Metal Gear Solid 2 is the best with that said I never beat 3 and 4 I got most of the way through and I was like I couldn't I can't stand this game Um Peace Walker son The best 3 I didn't like because it got too into the weeds We've talked about this many times the game's like way too in the weeds Like when I saw that my rations were getting eaten and stuff

I was like what the fuck like I just want to I just want to chill You know like just leave me alone let me do my thing The Camelor and all the shit Meliger Solid 3 rub me the wrong way I've always meant to go back and play it though again but two oh two is so good oh my god that game is so good and i'd like to see them reimagine that game and remake that game um i i would be shocked if that that ever happened yeah exactly it's the same thing i want i want them to just bring peacewalker to vita with trophies and you know that that's not i mean that that that should have happened

it should have the collection came out but it was just the psp version and then on ps3 there is the version with trophies. Yeah. Why didn't you just do this? It's like, oh, because you can download the PSP version. It's like, well, that's not HD. That's not, yeah.

My suspicion is that with Konami's limited resources that they saw, and Metal Gear's collection didn't probably do probably well in Vita. And so they were like, there's no reason for us to do this in QA. And that's the thing is the collection should have had it because it didn't. At the get-go, yeah.

It should have one, too. Well, exactly. And that's the other problem. So far, all the collections, they have all the discs and they have all the stuff except for one. That's a download code of just the original, which is fine,

but when all the rest of them look similar, or at least two and three. So I guess it's not all of them. But at least they're all HD. You know, they're all up-resced, but except for one. So a remake would be tantalizing. Tantalizing. Yeah.

All right. Last topic. Best-selling games of all time. This has been brought up because... Peace Walker. No, no. Peace Walker's not on the list. Damn it.

Definitely not. Moonwalker. Moonwalker is probably on the list. It's probably pretty low. technically every game there's a list with Moonwalker it's a specialist oh we're gonna do a Moonwalker

let's play yeah we are something special we should do that but all right so Grand The Final 5 I don't know but there was a great thriller level

though it was good let's do it yeah so Grand The Battle 5 is now the second most selling game

of all time really VIII that's nuts like that means it's sold more than Mario Bros Mario Bros

Wait is it the highest grossing or at highest selling? It sold the most units. Units, okay. And it certainly made the most money. Yeah. So, okay, Colin, you have a little more information on this because you know your family.

You can talk about numbers and stuff. All right, so Grand Thefto. So Take Two is the publisher that owns, you know, a lot of different publishing brands, but ultimately publishes Grand Theft Auto. Even though Rock starts its own company or whatever. So they announced that 45 million copies

of Grand Theft Auto 5 have been shipped in. Shipped in, of course, means shipped to retailers, not sold to consumers. It doesn't matter. People get hung up on this all the time. They don't ship copies to games that are not going to be sold to consumers. They're not stupid.

So this is essentially a projected will hit this number, number, and it's $45 million. Can't they ship the games back, though? Isn't that how retailers work if they don't sell a specific amount of units? They actually ship them back. Have you seen all the random Corey in the house? That's So Raven GBA games are like Blockbuster? They don't ship them back. No, I've not seen any other than those.

But I'll go out. What Blockbuster are you going to? Yeah, I'm messing up with Target, whatever. Well, the point I'm making is that the last time they announced their numbers as they were shipped in and they hit the number sold in two months. So they're projecting out two months again, I think. Okay. So like what they're going to sold. And presumably this counts digitally.

45 million copies of the game have been sold. 45 million copies of Grand of Thorough. It is the best-selling non-bundled game of all time. You know, let that wash over you. The best-selling game of all times is Wii Sports. It doesn't count in my mind because it's a bundle. It's bundled with every way, yeah. So, and according to the chart, it's about 82.

83 million. That doesn't really count. You could buy Wii Sports, I think, actually. But, because wees did come without it, like the Wii minis and all those kinds of things. So I think that there must have been a way to go back and buy it later. Like, you remember the Canadian, like, weird assuaries that were released? So

Grand The Thorentifold of 5 is officially the best-selling non-bundle game of all time. What's crazy about that, too, is that, you know, that's a $60 game. So that's, I would wonder it probably is the highest grossing game of all time. Oh, it is. They made a billion dollars in a day on that game. Well, no, they said that Wasn't one of the

College Duties, one of the highest grossings? Well, it was before this. Yeah, okay. I remember, I thought, I remember like Black Ops, or Black Ops 2 or something like that was like. It was the biggest entertainment launch of all time. I remember. Grand Theft Auto 5 made a billion dollars in 24 hours.

Which is insane. Because the game, I think, probably costs no more than a half a billion dollars to make, which is still an insane amount of money, which means that they made a half a billion dollars in profit. Like they made all, assuming the game was as expensive, including marketing as destiny, which is probably a safe assumption. Rockstar probably employs about 1,000 people

to make a lot of other game. Actually, they probably don't, well, no, they throw a shit ton of money behind marketing of that game. Sure. So I was going to say they probably step back because of the namesake, but they don't.

They go full in on their marketing campaign. Absolutely. But I think Destiny was the most ambitious marketing campaign in gaming history as far as money. Still happens. Yeah, as far as money's concerned, obviously, in with the first party,

too, with Sony. And they may, so the crazy thing about this, and I was talking to Tim about this before was make assumptions about certain console sales numbers, right. About 80 million PS3 is about 80 million Xbox 360 million units. About 20 million PS4 is about 10 million Xbox 1. So that's about 190 million units consoles. That means that the attach rate of these games are one and four across all the platforms it's available on. The game's not available on PC, which is incredible. And what's even crazier is assuming that a person owns, I was talking to

Tim, I'm like, you have to assume with these particular consoles, PS4, PS3, Xbox 360, and Xbox 1, that maybe about 80 million, 85 million people own these consoles. And what that means is that some people own one console, some people own four, and somewhere in the middle the number is. So it's about probably 80, 85, 90 million people.

That means half of them own grand-depth auto-5. Half the people that own a console own Grand Theft Auto 5. That's fucking insane. Yeah. That's completely, completely insane. Well, they were smart too, right? Didn't they get the up-res version ready

for next-gen, like, right off the bat? Wasn't it one of the first games you could buy? No, it was ready in the fall. They were clearly working. on it and it was rumored to have been worked on. The crazier thing is that only 10 million of those were sold next gen. That means 35 million of them were sold on PS3 and 360.

To just up res, which I have to assume is a hard process, especially for an open-world game, but it's not as hard as it probably used to be. Especially if you're any of your rock star and you're probably building them in tandem. Like I would have to imagine that they started that process like. You're working on the PC version. That's going to be an easy pork. Right. Yeah. That's just an extra 10 million copies

sold. I mean, how many companies? How many developers would sell 10 million? They went, I mean, they went really far. It was like above and beyond. It wasn't just like, oh, hey, it's nice you're looking. Here's first person mode. Here's new quest. Here's new missions. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, that's amazing. What's, God, I mean, that's like, you really, you just need to just make one of those every four years. And that's really it. That's what we were talking about Colin Gregg. They still must be making money off of the last one that came out. Oh, I'm sure. And the crazy thing is that the last one only sold about 25 million copies. And I say only.

But, like, this, this, what's incredible is that the install, like, it's just so funny. like the Grand The Auto 4 numbers count the PC version, which hasn't fucking come out yet for Grand The Auto 5. That's even crazier because when that comes out, that's going to sell another 10 or 15 million copies. Because people love modding those games. So this game is going to pass the 50 million mark at least, which is fucking nuts.

When you consider that that game costs $60 each. Like they are just printing money and the beauty of it. And this is what we're talking about on Colin and Greg Live is the economics of it, right? Because Rockstar has multiple studios. One of them is obviously working on Red Dead. that, you know, Rockstar North does Grand Theft Auto, Rockstar San Diego is probably doing Red Dead.

They have all their different studios like their ancillary studios. Thousands of people work on their games. They could take the Call of Duty tactic and be like, we're going to make a Grand The Auto game every year, you know? And that's what we're going to do. And we're going to fucking run this guy into the ground, you know? And they'll sell 15, 20, $25 million to that games of that game in a year, but they don't.

And what's brilliant is that they make more money by not doing that because the development cycle isn't so crazy that they have to do the Activision thing where everyone in the Activision family works on Call of Duty now. Even guys like Raven who have no, like, who used to make their own. games or never soft used to make Tony Hawk you know now everyone is doing their their part on called duty to get out of game every year costs a lot of money you know so to to do that

they're making tons of money by just being the games ready when it's ready and grand theft auto six are probably come out like 2020 and they're and they're just like we'll do it all over again and we'll see how many copies of this game we can sell next time like if I were the houseer brothers and I were you know and I was if I worked at rock star and I was like we just made a half a billion dollars in profit in one day you know You know? Like, I would be like, holy shit. You're doing it right.

That's the thing. There's two very distinctive business models that you're talking about, right? One's a lot more old school than the other. The business model everyone wants is they want to be able to get the product to market as soon as possible so they can make a ton of money with the L.C. Or a ton of money with in-game purchases, right? Things like that. That's what Call of Duty is.

It is an annual game, much like Madden was. And have we seen a downturn in their sales for that? I mean, the last one that came out sold really well. For Madden? I know for College. Call-Dood. Yeah, Ghosts sold. I think it's here.

Black Ops, I think, is still the best selling, or no, Modern Warfare 3 is still the best selling game. Okay, so is downward, a little bit of a downward trend. Yeah, so Modern Warfare 3 came out in 2011, which was a good game, and that's all 20. I mean, they're all in the mid-20s. Ghost, I think, is like somewhere around 17 or 18, right? Yeah, 17 and a half.

So the games are selling less. I mean, but when you still sell, to put into context, you're selling 17 or 18 million copies of a game. They're probably not so worried about it. I think that they're going to be worried when they get into that single digits, like 9 or 8 million. And then I'm going to be like, this isn't, they're still going to be, actually they will still make money off of that.

But that's when I still think, my biggest thing is that call of duty, if Activation is like, we're not going to release Call of Duty for four years. And when we're going to release one, it's going to be awesome. It's kind of a 20-hour campaign. It's crazy multiplayer. We're going to build on for years, whatever. They probably will sell those numbers. It's just, and it would be cheaper. It would be cheaper for them to do it.

That's the funny thing is they can just take a studio like Sledgehammer instead of every fucking studio that they own and be like you guys work on call of duty and that's it. And everyone else is going to do their own thing. And that's what Rockstar does. You know, because Rockstar, if they wanted to make a grandathota game every year, they could re-skin, you know, go back to Liberty City or whatever. They can do that over and over and over again, but then it would cost more and more and more money in their profit margins would go down. Well, also, there is something to be said there's an inherent value in scarcity, right? There's an inherent value in creating that value, which is to say you don't get this product every year, right? The same reason why Tim and I look forward to Smash Brothers when it comes out because we get one once every 25 years.

Smash Brothers team comes up, which is crazy. It's like our kids will get the next one, unless I already have. have a kid floating around there somewhere, which I'm sure I do. That's the best possible place you could be in, though. But there's no other, I can't name another company that gets that luxury. Even Apple has to put a product out every six months.

Right? Every year we get an iPhone, every year we get the S version, right? In that same cycle. Movie studios do the same thing, right? They are, there is a reason why Marvel and DC have announced 15 movies coming out every year for the next, how many years, 10 years, 15 years. It's because that affects

your share prices and you get, you know, You benefit from that. So it is incredibly crazy that Rockstar can sit back, have enough cash to basically fund an entire country if they want, and just develop an amazing product. And it is amazing. Like for any shit that you can talk about Rockstar having worked with them or whatever, the games they put out are awesome. GTFI was awesome. I actually, I own a copy of that. I'm one of those people that I never play games.

I have two games sitting on my shelf right now. One is DeusX and one is GT5. That's it. Wow. A diverse collection. huge collection and I haven't beaten neither of them yet but I played him. Gt. I think it is a bundle I think. It is with

PS4 the next gen version was a PS4 bundle and I think there was also a PS4 bundle. I could be wrong with this but I think there was a PS3 there was one with headsets we were at the conference there was one with headsets whatever but I think there is a PS3 yeah but I don't my assumption based on the hardware sales of PS3 is that this accounts for very

little of the sales. My assumption was that 90% plus sales were probably not through bundles. Yeah, exactly. I'm just saying. And it's not, when I talk about a bundled game, I'm talking about a game that can be bundled. I'm talking about a game that is a bundled game. So like Tetris with Game Boy or Wii Sports or... Was we Sports the number one? Yeah, we sports is the best selling game of all time. But again, it doesn't... And that's a great game. I mean, there's no...

We talked about bundled games and what's most important. People made really great points. I think in the comments that we sports is probably that important game. But GTA5, I agree with you. I think I was actually a little disappointed with GTA 5. I never beat it. I was like, I don't really... But it was because the game was bad. I just didn't want to play it. You know, it was just like, oh, whatever. But it's so impressive that this game, for as popular as it is, I still feel as understated, based on how many people own it.

You know what I mean? 50 million people, like, that's an incredible amount of people. That would be, if it was all American and they're not, that would be a sixth of the people in the United States, you know what I mean? Own the game. Yeah. For all of that, the people that own the game, I feel like it's actually very understated. You would think a game like Minecraft outsold it, but it didn't.

You know what I mean? And that's the crazier, I think, the Rue line about what cultural phenomenon equals to a game that just sells well or is just quietly good. And I'm not saying Grand Theft Auto 5 is quietly good. Obviously, they had a lot of ad campaigns. People love that game. They play the shit out of it.

They're obsessed with it. But for 45 million sales worth, it is very quiet. It's a no-brainer at this point. It's the fifth version of Grand Theft Auto. Everyone knows that's awesome. That's why I kept saying what I would love to see, would have loved to see them do with GTA 5 is just, when they were like, we're going to do our first trailer.

The only trailer they ever put out is a black screen. And you can hear Michael and Trevor, and there's, like, things happening. He's gunshots and there's explosions. And he's talking about, like, I left his life behind. It's just all it is is a black screen that fades up with the GTA5 logo. And that's all they have released. I think they could do that and fade up with the logo and say October or whatever,

and that game would still sell it, crazy. Yeah. And it would get even more press, I think. That would be a, that would be a... That would be a... That's like... It's the fucking Beyonce of the video game industry. Do you feel like...

You feel like it's... I mean, obviously, GTA5 is hugely culturally relevant, but do you feel like it doesn't get that visibility because of GTA online? Because most of these games that we are talking about are huge multiplayer phenomenons in the GTA online, which was amazing, was a little undersupported, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, the interesting numbers that they released were about a little more than half the people that own GTA5 play online, which is,

which is the numbers are good. It's like 25 million people, but, but heists aren't ready yet. And that's what I was going to say, it must have gone, like, it must have been a huge, huge, huge uphill, and then leveled off and then dropped. after a while you're like okay there's only so many times I can play through all these modes I'm sure I need new stuff I'm sure I think that has something to do with it I just I'm more intrigued by their model and their quiet work ethic you know I mean yeah like rockstar

doesn't make a lot of noise in between games at all like when ball to gay tony came out which was the last DLC for GTA 4 but for GTA 5 there was very little noise like they were quietly working on the game in New York City and that's the thing I love most about them is that they it's not because I'm a New Yorker is that they're in New York City there that's really weird, you know, like there are no developers in New York City of any consequence, you know, but they're like, we make so much, because it's expensive. Yeah. So they're like, we make so much money that we employ a metric shit ton of people in New York.

And we stay here apart from the entire games industry and make our game. And when we're ready to show it to you, we show it to you. And until then, we have nothing to say. You know what I mean? And that's, that's like what I really love. We'll see Red Dead from them, I think, soon from a different Rockstar studio. But, you know, when, you know, the Rockstar studio in Europe and the Rockstar student, San Diego and New York and they're all kind of collaborating on all these things

and working on all these games. Independently, that's what you're talking about with the up resing that was certainly done by people internally with the team when they moved on probably the DLC because there's more coming for GTA5. It's just amazing that within a year and a few months came out September of 2013 so a year in about five months,

they've also, I mean, look at the games on this list. You know what I mean? Like that they've just it's not even close. I mean, you got that. They trouts them. That's what everyone dreams of, right? You have that IP that sells itself. It's the Star Wars of a video game, right? Where it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that Star Wars is going to be a hugely grossing movie

when the Force Awakens comes out. This is the kind of thing that developers or studios dream of having. Like you can't. They are the top 1, like, 0,0001% of developers that has that luxury. And it's because they have the lineage of making crazy-ass, awesome, addictive games. That's amazing. Well, that what's important to me now, and I don't know if you guys agree with this, is that they have to be careful stewards now, granted the thought I'm moving forward

because remember that a different rock star existed after GTA 3. Remember that the first Grand Theft Auto games were very different than GTA 3. Hockdown. And when GTA 3 came out and hit, they immediately made Vice City and then they immediately made San Andreas. And I think Vice City is the best Grand Theft Auto game in my opinion. Yeah, me too. San Andreas went a little far. It's the

Metal Gear Solid 3, let's call it, of Grand Theft Auto. But then they went away again for a while between 2000... Sorry, just elbowed Porteil in the head. Between 2004 and 2008, they went away, and then they did it again. They were very overzealous in the beginning because they wanted to strike on that success, but they have not done that since. And so what I encourage them,

and I'm sure they're much smarter people than me, and I'm sure they're going to do this, don't make another grandthoughtto game, the entire generation. Just disappear and make the next one. Because you know what, like, they're already R&Ding PS5 probably

and all these other things, like very quietly. And in a couple years, they're going to have another one come out during this generation. I hope they don't. You know, like, that's what makes it so special.

I mean, that's what I'm with GTA4. You know, that's what makes it so special is that, you know, GTA4, GTA 5 is a native PS3 game, but it's really an in-between game. And what I would love to see them do is no company, Microsoft and Sony would fall over backwards to work with them. So when they're ready to show like the very early in 2017-2018, this is what the next console is going to be, this is what we're thinking. Let them know and let them start making that game for that.

But I mean, look at the numbers they just did. Like, why not do the exact same thing in bookend? They're going to see how well they did here. So put out GTA-6 right at the end of the PS-4's lifecycle and then put it over. it's a valid point. We'll see what happens. I hope their stewardship of the series is going to be very important moving forward because they like

they have to remember that the quality of the game speaks for itself. I feel the same way about Call of Duty. Actually, I think those games are very high quality. Even though they make them every year, I think they're of a high quality. But don't run it into the ground. Your trajectory is going up. Call of Duties is going down. You know what I mean? So just

not by a deep slope, but it is going. Well, I mean, I'm looking at the numbers here. Model Warfare 3 is 26 million. And Ghosts, which was last year's, is like 17. So that's a pretty significant job. You know, so like, that's true. So, like, they're definitely trending down and GTS trending up. But Ghost was the last one that came out, right?

We don't have numbers. Well, no, Advanced Warfare was the last one come out. I don't even, I don't even know if that's on here. The other thing is that, and this is the crazier thing I was thinking about Tim. And I don't, I don't mean to talk too much, but I have to say this. What's the ubiquitous Nintendo game? Mario. The original one, right?

Yeah. Grand The Thore Five sold more copies than that game. Yeah. That's fucking nuts. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's. fucking nuts. And it's crazy to think, too,

because how well did Red Dead tell, right? I don't know. Red Dead must have done decently enough, I would imagine. $6, $7.8 million, you would say somewhere in there probably. So really, and it's just, again, going back to that, like,

there is something so special about GTA. There's just, like, you just, one day I hope we have a show that does that well for us on kind of funny, kind of funny games where it's like, no matter what we do,

people love that show. Yeah, that'd be awesome. It's what every creator, what every artist kind of strives toward. It's just to have that name recognition in that big IP that could just sell no matter what. All right. Well, we could talk about this forever.

And I feel like we should have another topic, a follow-up topic soon, where we actually just go through all of the bestselling games and all the different consoles and see, because I feel like there's going to be a couple surprises in there. We didn't have time to do it here because we just kept talking about GTA because GTA is that damn good. There are. Wikipedia has a great list.

List. And they're cited. Tim loves my list. Nintendo is really great, especially about updating sales of historic software, too, which I think is really cool. And so, yeah, if you dive in, they even separate them on this page by console, which I think is fun.

So we can definitely that. We should definitely can and should, I think, dive into that in the future. Anyways, until next week, please give us some five stars on iTunes. Please leave some comments below about all your thoughts on all the different things we talked about. Or, you know what? Just enjoy it. However you want to enjoy it. Until next time, I'm Tim Geddes.

That is our special guest, Nick Scarfino. Hey, guys. That's Greg Miller. And that's Colin Moriarty. We are. Kind of funny. I'm on my way. Oh, sweetheart.

And tonight, I'm all my way. Oh, sweet house. That's a great song. It's so good.