Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - The Best Roguelike Games Ranked - Kinda Funny Gamescast

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

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Yo, what's up? Welcome to Kind of Funny Games cast for Friday, October 10th, 2025. I'm on your host, Blessing, Eddie O.Ey Jr., and joining me is LeCoy Poppy. Tim, Ma, fucking, Gettys. There's nothing like a Friday, and there's nothing like sitting down and being like, oh, we're doing a shit list. And I don't know what the topic's going to be. Oh, you don't know? I don't know. Oh, okay. I never know. This is one that I'm really curious on your take on, because I know I have strong thoughts here.

And I know you probably have some thoughts, but I'm curious on how strong they are. Very exciting. But before we get there, I want to remind me. you that this is kind of funny games cast each and every week we get together and talk about the biggest reviews previews and topics in video games live on youtube twitch and all podcast services around the globe if you love what we do support us with the kind of funny membership on patreon youtube spotify apple podcast to get all of our shows ad free watches accord them live and get a daily exclusive show for a chance to be a part of the show some of your thoughts and opinions as youtube

superchats as we go some housekeeping for you we're in 11 person business all about live talk shows KFGD was about new PlayStation 6 tech that was talked about by Mark Serny. After this is King of Meat with Nick, Mike, Andy, and Tim. But that's a lie because before that is Game Showdown. Oh, yeah. Another kind of Feudy. So Strap again for that. My favorite.

If you're a kind of funny member, today's Gregway is Tim's. But late yesterday. That's right. Yeah. Late yesterday, a very informative Gregway went up from Greg and Jean-Villev Miller. Greg yacks about how to support indie games. but then someone who actually knows what she's talking about shows up to talk about the question from her side of the industry. It's super informative.

I wonder who that is. Jean-Viev-Miller. Thank you to our Patreon producers, Carl Jacobs, Omega Buster, and Delaney the Somme Twining. Today were brought to you by Factor, but we'll tell you about that later. For now, let's start with topic of the show. Tots, Tots, Tots, Tots, Tots, Tots. That's right, it's your favorite segment. The shit list.

That's where I go online. I find a top 10 list and I bring it back. to Tim and Bear recording the ones and twos, and we judge it for your amusement. Today's topic per shit list, the top 16 roguelikes of all time. Okay.

And this is a fresh list. 16, it's a fresh list from IGN. Okay. Yeah. We're cooking here. This was really convenient because we've had shit lists

on the calendar for like a week or something like that. And I think it was either yesterday the day before where this went up. Okay. And people started tweeting us. I saw Andy even put it in the Gamescast Slack we have of like, yo, we got it right here.

We got a shit list right here. Yeah, this is good. Now. Because what I like about this is it being IGN means it's a list by committee and there's oversight to it. Well, the committee being Mitchell Salman and Simon Cardi specifically. It seems like it is two people. There are on the article. Also, like how much oversight is there usually for these lists, you know?

I mean, there's somebody in charge of looking at it. Like somebody is like signing off on it. It's not just somebody just one person's opinion. You know what I mean? Someone's a producer on the project. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if that means that they're both just producers on it and they wrote the article

together. Maybe they wrote separate excerpts for the different games or whatever. Or if this was like their list. Either way, it's going to be a good list. Absolutely. I mean, those are two opinions I respect very highly. 100%. Especially in this genre.

Yeah. I mean, I have my immediate thought, knowing Mitchell Saltzman, number one might be. funky too. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not crazy. Not crazy to say. Man, this is good. Okay, so 16, should we just jump into it? Yeah, let's just start listing. Dead cells. That cell's going to be on there. Hades. Two. Both. I mean, it's an updated list. There's a reason why they're putting this list out this week. Now, Barrett's bringing up both. That is an interesting thing. I think for writing it down.

16 is a weird number Was there 15 And Hades 2 They had the list Yeah they needed to add one more there And there is the conversation there as well I think of like do we need both Hades 1 and 2 And I'm of the side no

But I think I think Hades 1 is such a monumental game And Hades 2 is also such like a monument I feel like both of them Deserve a spot Because if Hades 1 isn't If Hades 1 is not on a list of the top 16 Rogue Lights

What are we doing? I mean, if if Hades 2 is there, it's like that's what we're doing. Yeah. I'm with you. I do think it is a rare case where very similar games because of those reasonings can kind of get on the list. Yeah. Returnal.

I think Hades, it was just so important to roguerleights as a genre. Returnal, I think, is on there. I'm curious on where it's at on the list, but I think it's on there. It would be high up on my personal list. But like, I don't know. What did IGN give Returnal? An eight and nine? I'll look at it up.

It might be an eight review. They gave it an eight out of ten. That was by Mitchell Sultzman. Oh, shit. Oh, yeah. So that might be like middle to low on the list. If on the list at all. I think it's on the list.

I think it's there. It's got to be there. Well, okay, let's start. Because there's a lot of fucking rogue legacy is going to be honest. Yeah, it has to be on the list for sure. Do they put, did Rogue Legacy 2 hit? Was that only early access so far? Is that like out-out?

That's out, right? That's a really good question. That must be out-out. Yeah. Yeah, let's say Rogue Legacy. two. I didn't play as much of two as I did of one, but I feel like two was the smart one. That was five years.

There was no way that that was five years ago, right? No, maybe early access was five years ago. Oh, okay. Slay the Spire. Got to get them card games in there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Inscription? Oh, I mean, yes. I'm going to write it down.

Yeah. It would be on my list. Now, for the upteenth time, uh-huh. I don't know what a rogue light is and what a like is. And I shouldn't admit this at all. And I definitely shouldn't admit the fact that I never know. And every time I have to say it, I kind of just mumble it and I hope nobody catches me. I'll be honest. At this point, it doesn't matter. I know. That's why I'm not been there. Everything. The difference, as far as I understand it, I made a whole video about this. I even talked

to Derek U, creator Spunky. As far as I understand it, the difference is that a true rogue like is like you are almost one for one with like what rogue is as a video game there's no and I think the main thing being there's no progression like there's no long term progression. It's a true reset every time. Yeah when you lose a run you are not gaming anything. You are going in fresh

every single time and yeah like it's different every single time. Rogue lights I think usually yeah you have progression. Throw that out the window. Nobody gets a fuck. Nobody cares. We get what we're saying. Everything's a rogue like. That said Belatrol? Oh and Belmonton. Damn, there might be more than 16 games to list here. Yeah. Another one.

I'm also writing down if people didn't hear it, binding of Isaac. Oh, okay. That was the one I was about to shout out, yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot more to list. Do you have both Spalunkies on there? No, but maybe. I just wrote Spunkie, too.

I could see it only being Spalunky. Like, I don't feel like I hear people talk about two as much as the first Spalunky. Yeah, but I know how much Mitchell Saltman loves Splunky, too. You know something to say. Mitchell Saltsman loves Splunky too. Yeah, something to say, everybody. I know he loves the first Plunky as well. Oh, put that first one on there.

Blueprints. Blueprints. That's top five. I don't roglights are such a weird genre. It's a weird genre. Yeah, it's so nuts. Now it feels like what is considered an RPG versus what has RPG mechanics. I mean, let's talk about it, right?

makes a rogue like a rogue like. We're going to talk, you're doing like a perma death mechanic, right? You lose the run and you have to start over. Procedural generation, as far as like every time you go back into a run, things are different.

You're having to make different choices. That's it. I think that for the most part, that's it. Yeah. Which then allows, yeah, many different things and genres to fit in, which is kind of freaking cool when you think about it. That like, Hades and Bellotro and

Returnal can all be described in a similar way and it's like it's accurate yeah i mean it's less of a genre it's weird it's a genre but it's also a system it's also a system based yeah yeah because you can be a card game roguelike but you can also be a third person action roguelike or a third person shooter rogue third person action god of war vala yeah i mean that that's the thing is i fucking love it personally i just i don't think that it gets the love anywhere i don't think it's on the list We don't talk about it. I could see it being at the bottom of the list. Yeah.

But like as we list more games, we'll just talk for a second about God of War of Al-Hala. Yeah. Because like, fucking so good. First off, free, awesome.

Yeah. Second off, random surprise drop of just here it is. Yeah. And let's just take a game that's awesome and add these elements to it that just make it even more awesome. But on top of that story stuff, that's great.

It's not just like a, it's not like the last of us fucking rogue like mode, right? Or donkey con. It actually, is integrated into Cratos unpacking stuff from the ending of Ragnarok, which was so well done

and the action of the rogue-like mechanics kind of go into his thought process of like kind of having to think about this big decision he's going to make. It's Cratos going to therapy, which is such an ingenious idea. That should have been on our top ten list that year. I voted for it. Was it not?

It wasn't. I voted for it as well. Yeah, like that's, that was a... What year was that? That must have been a strong year. What came out that year? Tears the Kingdom, Armored Corps, Alan Wake 2, Spider-Man 2,

cyberpunk fan... Okay, that was a really strong year, actually. That was a really strong year. That was a great game, though, man. Bala Hala should have been on there more so than Jedi Survivor. I'm saying. I mean, that I feel.

I'd agree with that. Man, there's so many games. Okay. Right now I have written down 13 video games, and I feel like we're not slowing down. Chat's also pointing out FTL faster than light That's not one that I ever played But I do hear a lot of people talk about

Yeah, out of my will house I've not played FTL But I know the sickles love FDL You know it's a rogue like Because I didn't Yes Yeah I do I do know that much Did we write down Returnal?

Yeah I hope you did Yeah no I wrote it down That was one of the first things we wrote down Okay Um You said puzzle earlier Well just blueprints

Oh referring to blueprints Oh referring to blueprints I see. Yeah. What am I for, I feel like there's things were forgetting. One that I just had

on the tip of my, I'm just trying to envision the three choices. What game? Yeah. The three choices. Oh, well, you didn't really play

rogue Prince of Persia, right? Oh, I played a fair amount when it was an early access and it was just a bit too early access for me and there was certain like graphical things they did that I didn't like. They changed those in the final release and they added a lot more.

I have not put significant time into it. And it's, it just came out. absolutely the worst time because it came out right around Hollow Night and Hades and it's just like, I'm about a time that I am playing that type of game like, you know,

more simple presented at least 2D games and I'm having the best time ever. But yeah, Rogue Prince of Persia, that's like something that needed to come out like this March. You know what I mean? Well, y'all were playing blueprints, I would have been playing that. But I didn't get to it. Shat reminds me, Outer Wilds.

That's not a rogue like. No? No. Everything's the same. every time you come back. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. It's like procedural generation, right? Yeah, okay.

That's fair. Vampire survivors. Vampire survivors. I don't think we mention that. Enter the gun, is also one that Chats calling out. Oh, that's good.

I never got that into Enter the Gunshot. I tried it and I, oh, no, did I try it? I didn't. I'm thinking of a different one. I'm thinking of mother gunship or whatever the fuck that was called. Chaz, bringing up Loop Hero.

I was also going to bring up Loop Hero. I don't know if it's on that level. I have who I think people fuck with that game What's interesting about it Is I People fuck with it

I don't know if it's enough But I do think it's a different Enough genre compared to the others That it might make the list Because of that Because the quality's there Yeah It's more like

I just don't think that game has the like Notoriety overall Yeah Because like I was I was gonna mention next Risk of Rain 2 Which is another one that I've not played As much of But like if you

It's another if you know you know Kind of thing Like when we were playing return when Returnal came out, I feel like Risk of Rain 2 was the, oh, this is how you lead to this. Like, risk of rain 2 brought so much to the table. Hmm.

I feel like that makes it for sure. Ghostly in the chess says, vampire isn't procedural. I feel like the enemies are procedural, no? I didn't play enough vampire survivors. So I don't know what the procedural elements of that game are. I feel like it's like enemies plus the items that appear. Yeah.

I don't feel like I was doing the, like, you know, the gameplay. I'm saying no. No, no, no, back to back. As far as like it. Chad, are you saying the Empire Survivors isn't a rogue like? Yeah, that's what they're saying.

Only they're same every time. Huh. This one I'm gonna do. All right. I'm gonna, what the hell is Megabong? People keep talking about Mega Bonk. It's just 3D ripped vampire survivors,

essentially. Okay. Yeah. Because I've only seen it on the TikTok trend. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Mike's playing. Oh, well, Mike and Andy are both playing a lot of it.

Have you all seen this trend? Megabon? Mega bonk? Yes. Yeah, yeah. where they like jump on, like someone's laying on the bed. The mega bong. Oh, no.

No, I haven't seen that. I'm not on the video game. No. I'm so upset because it's the most Tim coded shit where I would do that to G any damn day of the week. She's all pregnant. I can't do it. I just can't do it. I want a wrestling freaking frog slasher so bad.

Here's what we do. You know, like everybody keep that trend going for the next six, seven months. And then you do it to your child. I also, oh, I already told you that's happening. But I also. I'm not even sure that what I'm talking about is Megabonk, but they say something with it like MegaBank, I thought it was Mega Bonk, and I keep

seeing people say Mega Bonk now and I'm like, it must be all related. It must be the same thing. So tell me if I'm wrong, everyone. Tucker Prestige, I mispronounce your names, I'm sorry, Prestridge. And chat says, I love how no one is saying the last was to no return. I wanted to like, I like that mode in the preview.

When it came out, it was one of those things where I was like, oh, I don't want to do this. I don't know. I really think there's something to be said about post-release game modes just not hitting the same because they just don't feel like they're worth our time even if they're worth our time yeah and i say that from the game's media perspective but also just as a player something about it feels afterthought and i think that that goes back to god of war vahala this is nothing to do with the quality of the game and like how amazing and how much love is put into it i just think it immediately feels like it doesn't matter just because it's like oh we already beat the game whatever they're doing clearly can't be that important there's exceptions to that role but i think think there's so few and far between. Like, I think about Fortnite's Battle Royale mode as the biggest example of, hey, a separate mode ended up becoming the, the thing.

And we're talking about the biggest thing of the world. But more often than not, like, Last of Us No Return, despite the quality of it, it was never going to set the world on fire, you know? Yeah. And it's Last of Us. In theory, anything new Last of Us should. Yeah. I also think there's the thing of, we're in the place with Rogue lights where, or Rogue likes,

where companies have identified them as being, oh man, no people really like this mode. And I think you're seeing attempts of trying to put them into things without the care, love, and attention to actually make those modes good. Like you can't just put a roguelight in something and go, ah, we did it.

Like that's like, no, you got to actually develop it to make that gameplay loop so satisfying. That's why Hades 2 and Hades 1, I think, functioned so well in early access, because you got to really take in that feedback and really dial it in. Like that dial in portion of making a roguelike,

I think is so important. And that's why I especially look at Donkey Kong Bonanza as an example of like, you can't just put this thing in and expect it to blow up because it's a roguelight mode. And I think, expounding on your point there,

because I think you're absolutely right. I think there's two ways to look at it where it's like gameplay fun, rogue like fun. Yeah. Put those together, it's fun. And that's last of us no return, right?

And Donkey Kong even where it's like, yes, the gameplay is fun and adding a roguelike mode. There's fun there. that totally makes sense. But the thing that makes it an amazing role-like is the story beats, the surprises. Every single time I've entered this room, this happened, but the one time that happened. Yes.

Yeah, those surprises. Yeah. I would even say, like, the upgrades being things that are, that make you go, fuck, I can't choose. With D.K. Bonanza, it was always, it was never the thing of like, oh, man, I won all three of these. It was like, I don't really care any. Yeah, it's what am I doing here? Like, it all felt like it was adding to a number that I would never see. Yeah.

And Hades, we're going to keep coming back. to Hades because we're playing Hades 2 in that game is fucking 10 out of 10. Every single time I'm looking at an upgrade in Hades 2, I won't say every single time, but very often when I'm looking at an upgrade in Hades 2, I'm like, damn, that's a really cool upgrade. I want to try that, but then also this one I kind of want to see as well.

But then also I'll never use cast. And also I'll never use cast. Insane. Insane behavior. But talking this out, I do think, and admittedly, I am not the most well versed in all of these games. A handful of them, I very much am. Like, I do think I do

like this subgenre or whatever it is because there's a lot of gameplay styles that speak to me that rogu lights do add to but i want to fight for god of war valhalla it belongs on this list because they did put the loving care into everything we just said about story and surprises and all that stuff and want anytime a a choice came up it was a choice because i was like ah man i want that but if i choose this i get that later and it's like that's that's good design god of war vaughalahala was so good that like it took a combat system which I really liked the combat system of God of War and God of War

Ragnarok but it was never like a I was never this is the greatest combat system kind of guy for God of War Valhalla kind of turned it into that for me where I was like oh no this is singing now like there's something that Valhalla does with the combat where I'm like

man I am just into I'm using the you know I'll also say light spoilers for God of War if you haven't played God of War since 2023 or whatever the spear that you get in that game I didn't really fuck with the spear in that main story. I thought it was fine.

I thought it was a cool story beat, but I was never like a main weapon I came back to. For God of War, Vahala? Oh, dude, I was a spirit guy. I was Roman rains up in there. I was spirit left and right. I was edge. Two other ones I'm thinking of as well.

Cultiv of a little lamb is an interesting one. Oh, yeah. It did something different with the whole town building aspect, uh, building into the whole rogue-like stuff. and then I feel like the other reason this list comes out this week you brought up Hades too Tim but Absalom also just came out

Now I did look up the review They gave it a 7 out of 10 Yeah But that was a review written by Will Borgre True Did you read the review? No

I did Yeah I happened to for this And the big criticism is that the rogue like stuff Doesn't fit the game Interesting Yeah I saw

I forget what other website. I saw another website have a similar thing where they're like the beat them up part is fantastic. The roguly part lets it down a little bit.

Yeah. But that is a good shout though. But I do wonder that's one person's opinion from IGN where this is, you know, larger swat.

I got a large handful of games written down here in the list that we already have. 17 games overall. If I had absolute that'll be 18. But going for the top of the things I've written down,

Splunky 2, Hades 2, Hades 1, Dead Cells, blueprints, rogue legacy two, slay the spire, Volatro, binding of Isaac, inscription, returnal, splunky, god of war of Ahala, FTL, faster than light,

vampire survivors, risk of rain two, cult of the lamb. I mean, that's a solid ass list. That's a really solid list. The ordering of it? That's pretty interesting. Yeah, I mean, these aren't super ordered. Like, there's a little bit ordered, but not really. If we're talking about top...

Let's just talk top three, because I don't think we need to, like, literally order the entire list. Oh, for sure, we don't. top three Should we do that right after an ad break? You know what? I like that idea to him. Of course, patreon.com slash kind of funny

YouTube.com. So it's kind of funny games where you can go and get the kind of funny membership which gets these shows ad free. And speaking of ads, here's some ads. This episode's brought to you by Factor. Ball always feels like there's just so much going on, so much stuff to do, shorter days,

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Eat smart at FactorMeals.com slash kind of funny 50 off and use code kind of funny 50 off to get 50% off your first box. plus free breakfast for one year. That's code kind of funny 50 off at factormeals.com for 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for one year. Get delicious ready to eat meals delivered with Factor. Offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase. There are some games on the table still. Night rain. I don't know if it's going to make top 16.

I mean, it should. Should I think so? Yeah, just simply based off how critically well that game. game was received. Like that game, it did what it set out to do. And I don't think that, like,

we expected that. But I don't know if it was critically well received. I feel like it was, I'll look it up as a talk about. Open critic, it has it at a 77%. Yeah.

The audience just really liked it. What was IGN's? Seven. I didn't give it a seven? Yeah. Okay. It was just a weird one where it's like,

the audience just liked it way more than the critics. Yeah. Like, there's things that I think that game, it's just a weird video game. Yeah, there's things that just don't come together.

But when you get in the hands, to the audience, people just don't care because the game's so fun anyway. Yeah. I wanted to shout out, I don't know if this actually fits, but minute. Remember minute? Oh, I mean, I wouldn't say that fits because it's not like procedurally generated, right? That's another one where everything, every run is the same.

Was that the mobile game? No, that was the, Jared Petty would talk about it a lot. It was like an 8-bit, 4-bit, like retro indie game, Zelda-like, but like every minute you die. Yeah, sick. Really, really fun little game. Somebody in chat said,

Darkest Dungeon, which I've not played, but is that a Rochlight? Because if so, then... That's Hunter Pence's. I don't want to say Hunter Pence's favorite video game. Like, I think it's his favorite game.

He loves it more than baseball. Dude, Darkest Dungeon is one that I feel like if I ever booted it up, my life is changing. Yeah. That's one that I gotta stay away from. I think that's true for you

because Hunter, more than anything, he loves baseball and Alexis and all that stuff. But it's, uh, darkest dungeon and Magic the Gathering. Yeah.

Oh, we got to play magic with Hunter. Oh, you definitely do, but also it's like that type of mind. Yeah. It's a blessed mind. It really is. It's a rogue-like role playing game. Oh yeah.

Keep it away from me. And keep it away from me. I will say like maybe it's Mitchell and Simon who wrote it. Maybe there's a larger committee. I do know there were people at IGN who fuck with Darkest Dungeon heavily. When Darkest Dungeon came out. And if they were on the committee, you know, possibly it got a 9.1 from IGN. When Darkest Dungeon came out, it was as if

video game Ronald Reagan had released crack on the streets where like you would just walk by people and they're like, darkest dungeon I'm like, what the fuck? It's like, people fucking, people fuck with Darkest Dungeon Heavy Dog. And that's on the list. That's on the list.

Hey, put it on the list. I apologize, that was too crazy with this. That was wild. You know what else is wild? And we don't need to go on a tangent here. I'm just, this isn't just a Tim Getty's opinion. we really give points on review scale scores. Are you kidding me?

That was back in the show. I know, I know, but I just think that it's the funniest goddamn thing. Yeah. Every scale is stupid. That is a fact. I'm just putting that out there, so I know our scale's stupid too.

Cool. Because we have points. But putting points on it. It's like, yo, what's the difference between 9.1, 9.3? Remember what was San Andrea is, I think from my, I jing got out 9.9. What are we doing?

What are we doing with 10? Grand game, double dash, what, 7.9? Yep, Margarterdam double that 7. Dude, that point nine was kicking people's ass. I'm pretty sure Twilight Princess got at 8.8. Crazy. Yeah. Best dungeons in the series.

Come on. What are we talking about here? Okay. Got to shave off point two, though, from that nine, because the intro kind of sucked. Yeah, the intro did kind of suck. It's a very slow opening. It's not perfect. Yeah.

All right. Top three. Let's talk top five, actually. Okay, I like that. I mean, here's the thing. What if it's not in the top five? Are we going to be like, what the fuck, man? Haiti.

Hades? like a Haiti A. Hades. Dead cells, I think are two that have to be there. I feel like that cells can slip to that 610 range. But dead cells got a 10. Did it? Well, I think. I thought the deal in the original review or the real review? Wait, what was the real? Oh, I forgot

about that shit. That was a fucking heart attack that I think I learned while playing Fortnite with Kevin that whoever we were playing with, I think it might have been cheeks who was like ah iGian's just uh copying reviews now and i was like what god what a fucking time here's what i'll say right splunky two and hades who are going to be there slunky two and a haydies i'll say are going to be top five i would also say slay the spire i think slay the spire is one of the ones for people yeah that that's out of my slay the spire definitely took over the

igon office dead dead cells though i think is like a non-negotiable for top five really yeah for the impact to the genre and like that put so many people on, reviewed so well all of the continued follow-up content was amazing. And that game fucking rocked. I forgot how much I loved dead cells until I just imagined the gameplay in my head. Binding of Isaac, I think, has to be in top five.

But I was that? Binding of Isaac. See, and that's where we get into this place where I look at Binding of Isaac, I look at Risk of Rain 2. I look at darkest dungeon. I look at FtL. Those four games

might kick dead cells down. I feel like all those are niche is not the word but they are fan base specific binding of Isaac I think broke that binding of Isaac not all of them

not all of them but I think it is that toss up where yeah you go to the fan bases of any of these games and they're trying to fight for the top five spot yeah like I think and I would I'll probably maybe even include dead cells in the conversation

I feel like that cells is one of those where it's like between dead cells risk of rain, darkest dungeon, FTL, you put any of those in the top five, and it makes sense. And so which one is getting pushed down? Even blueprints, though. Let's just talk top three.

Are we doing Splunky, Hades, Slay the Spire? Or do we think Dead Cells enters that top three? I don't know if it's top three. That's tough. I think it is. I think we just get into it. I think we just get into it. I think we just get into it.

I really can't predict this. Starting at the bottom, let me open up this IGN list. again give me a second these are the top 16 best best rogue-like games

as determined by IGN I'll read the first blurb just to set the tone here ask three different video game fans to define what a rogue-like is and chances are you're likely to get three different responses one might say

oh yeah those are like that game with sexy Greek gods another might reply no you idiot Hades is a rogue light a rogue like is a game like Splunky

and another still might slam their hands on the table and shout. The reason they're called rogue likes is because they're like the 1980s dungeon crawler rogue. None of those games are roguelikes at all. All this to say that this is a genre with a hotly contested definition, which is why making

a list of best rogue likes is a bit tricky. Nevertheless, we feel like it's still worth doing because the games within it are among the most influential of the past decade. So we're going to simplify the definition to be a game that features both procedural generation and permadeh as core gameplay elements. Love it. All right.

I'll say that again. Good, good job, boys. That's a great first two paragraphs. A game that features both procedural generation and permadeff as core elements of gameplay. Good. I.e., it's not just a mode that you have the option to turn off or on. So I have a question following up in my ignorance earlier about the difference between the two. Is there another genre that there's this difference between light and like? That's a really good question.

Because why are we adding like it all? Let's just get like out of here. I think maybe that was like an early thing where there were way more. Because there are souls light. I think coming off of Rogue, there were. more genuine rogue likes. And then as we got further into the 2000s and like the

indie era and stuff, more lights started to pop up and just became way more popular. I think that's how it worked. Yeah, it's just funny because I feel like somebody was just trying to get cute at one point. I was just like, it's a rogue light. Yeah, it's like, and then all this is that caught on for some reason. And then that caught on super hard. And now, I think we're post that now. I think we just call them rogue likes now.

All right. Coming in at number 16. We got Colt of the Lamb. I was thinking this one might have slipped off. Yeah, Sam. Well, I mean, it's 16, right? So maybe, maybe this was a top 15 list and they're like, you know what? We got to be on the list. We got a shout out Colt of the Lamb. It took over the world. For sure. At number 15, we got. Enter the Gungeon. I came up in chat earlier, right? We talked about it. Oh, we talked about it. Here's the thing. Is it on ours? Under the gungeon. Let's see. Oh, I think I meant to write it down, but I didn't.

But we can count that as an L. That said, I think, I'm going to make the prediction. We only see two games here that we didn't mention or a surprise button. Okay, I like that. Yeah. That's fun. Yeah. There's stakes now, everybody.

I think only two games here that we missed. Including this one or two more? Two more. Okay. So three total. I feel like we count this because we did bring it up. I think, yeah, I'm pretty sure we didn't put it down. But that's on me.

I just forgot to write it down. All right, coming in at number 14, we got into the breach. Oh, did we not mention into the bridge? No, we didn't. I read it in chat, and I think I meant to say it, and I forgot to say it. I'm going to be a thousand percent real with you. This is the game I was thinking about when I was talking about a different one. Did we?

No. Slate the Spire? No. Oh, loop hero? Yes. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, no, into the brief.

This is such an easy slam dunk for X list too. I mean, but this also, I think, is in the FDL conversation of like, this has such a strong fan base. People fucking love this game. I'm kind of surprised to see it at number 14. There's another one that I've always wanted to play as well. And number 13.

Okay, so now we got one more slot left to lose. Number 13, we got Rogue Legacy 2. Low. Eh, a lot of good games. I think that's because the first one, Hi. You think the first one's on here too? Wait, no, I'm also mixing up

Uh, Tim's making if he mix up games out too, uh, Rogue Legacy and what was the other one? Spalunky, I'm thinking of Spalunky. Oh, yeah, no, no, no. But still way lower than I expected. And number 12, we got. Monster Train. I didn't, man, I didn't realize Monster Train was on that level.

People are talking, people are fucking with this game, but... Wow. Dang. It sounds like one that you need to play as well. Monster Train. too, huh? We played this at GDC. I had a friend, like, years ago, recommend Monster Train 1 to me,

and I played a little bit of it. I was like, oh, this is cool, but I moved on. Man, all right, Moss Train, too. I love this. This is, so far, great list. Look, we were wrong, but I love that because of how contentious and how much quality there is in this genre, whatever you want to call it.

What do we want to call it? What is it? What is it? Yeah, but, like, what is that? What is that? I think everything's a genre. We can just call a genre. Yeah. But I just feel like that's, it's weird because it's not a genre. It's a system. Video games are weird.

Video games are fucking weird. God damn it. Bless you're right. I mean, open worlds are, that's a genre, but not. I don't think it is. I think, an RPG, that's the genre. Yeah, but an RPG, what defines RPGs though? It's the systems.

We're fucking doing it. It's the systems that define an RPG. Man, okay, because here's my thing on Wall Street as well is, I, I think I always considered, I always looked at Monster Train of like, oh, you're just Slade the Spire with a twist. Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna do my due diligence.

I'm playing Monster Train too, guys. He's doing it. I'm gonna check out Monster Train too. Man, I also, I think I'm pretty sure I already bought Slay the Spire on my phone too because I knew I was gonna get addicted to that. Number 11. Moving on to number 11.

Returnal. Oh, hurts. That is this low? Yeah. I expected this low, though. Yeah, that's fair. This is understandable to me. on my personal list, I'm putting this top five.

Yeah, this is very high for me personally. I think Returnal more so than Hades 1 actually sold me the most on the rogue-like structure that I've definitely played way more rogue-like since Returnal than before it. And I think that's just like the moment-to-moment gameplay is just so fucking phenomenal. But I also feel like Returnal, it's all, I would say the Moments' Moment gameplay is almost even better than the Roguelight part of it. Like, is the third person shooting and like the actual action

and the visuals and like that moment to moment gameplay fucking cares. Is that bullet hell arcade game that that yeah, housemark does so well. The road light is additive but it's just that inherent

like yeah moment to moment that's so good. And shout out to like all even the freaky cut scenes outplay between runs where you'd get like polympses and mirrors and shit. Oh yeah.

The story is phenomenal and like what that is as like an allegory for Celine's story. Yeah. At number 10, we got vampire survivors. There we go. Hell, yeah.

Now, I forget, are we, so are we on like zero life mode where if we, if we miss another one, then we're done? I think we already fucked up. Did we just fuck up? Okay. Yeah, we're done. Yeah, we missed into the breach and didn't we miss? Mosca train, yeah. What do we get ourselves?

One way. What do we get out of zero life? One more. All right. One more and we truly lose. Death defied. Death defied. There we go. All right.

But also, the chat was very adamant that vampire survivors. was not a roguelike. Yeah, and I disagreed with Chad. I wrote it down anyway. Yeah, come on. No, man. It's like porn. You know it when you play it.

You know it when you play it. You play vampire survivors? You're like, that's a roguelike. And number nine, you got blueprints. Yeah. Yeah, come on. It's a fucking game of the year. Of course, it's on the list, guys.

Come on. I love it. Again, very different. Look at every game that's been on the list so far. I feel like they're all a different gameplay genre. So sick. Dude, I love rogue likes so much. Number eight, you got dead cells.

Damn. Wow. Way lower than I expected. I think it's just like the Normie versus like the nerds thing. Where if you're like an extra rogue like nerd, you're going to look at dead cells and be like, nah, man, it's too mainstream for me. But that's my thing is I think it's so mainstream. Yeah.

Nick Scarpino played this game. Crazy. The man would taste. Like the fucking Scarfito, man. I didn't just try it. Like he played for like 30. hours or something. Yeah.

Yeah. Amazing game. This game fucking rocks. Number seven, we got Bellatro. There you go. There we go. Yep, yep. What I put dead cells about

Balatro? Balatro broke out more than dead cells. Oh, yeah. Palatro's like, is different. Belatra's so fucking good. It's a card game. Like, it's, it's. I can't be mad at that.

It's like putting like poker with rogue-like stuff and all of the systems that you can use to just break this game, it's just so addicting. And number six, we got FTL FASher than Light. This is one of those ones where it's just too hardcore for me. Yeah. I look at this game, and I'm like,

too many things. I'm like, I know, I know for your audience, this probably is like crack in the 80s. But, you know, not even once. Not even once is what they say in the commercial. It is. And number five, you got Slay the Spire. Another one that I know would change my life.

So now, we got four left. Four left. We've seen no Hades yet. At this point, I imagine we only get one. Yeah, you're probably only going to get one. Which one is it? I can two. I think two, yeah.

I'm going to say two. Two is just so good. Yeah. If I'm picking, I'm picking two, easy over one. Yeah. In terms of just like that moment to moment gameplay and just the way that they have smartly broken up the loop of a rogue like, right? in terms of the two different objectives

I think it was like really smart yeah I think two so I think you're gonna get Hades 2 you're gonna get Splunky 2 for sure or Spelunky 1 who knows it's Mitchell Saltzman you're gonna get you're gonna get Spunkie 2 Binding of Isaac

Binding of Isaac So we have one more spot For God of War of Alhalla I would go darkest dungeon Yeah I was gonna say darkest dungeon I really want inscription on here, but maybe Inscription is a weird game where you get to a certain point where it's not a rogue like anymore.

So maybe that pushes it out. Yeah, I think that has to be it. All right, let's go. Wait, whoa, wait. Have you seen Risk of Rain 2? No. You're going to get Risk of Rain 2 on here. I don't know what.

Maybe that instead of Darkest Dungeon? Yes. So Hades is number one. Spunky 2 is number one. You think? I love this. I love the Mitchell Saltzman game that you play. Dude, I know how Mitchell Salsman

operates. Splunky 2 is number one. I'm calling my shot. Calling it. He's calling it, everybody. And also number four is going to be risk of rain too. I'm calling that as well. Yeah, I could see Risk of rain number four and then or the other binding of Isaac number three, Haiti two, Spelunky one or two, number one. I could also see, I can see, I can see, I mean, yeah, I guess I can see

binding of Isaac being number four also. But I think the next two games we're going to see are going to be binding of Isaac and risk of rain too. Yeah. I think Hades is number one or two, and because of the Mitchell Salsman thing, I think you're right. Yeah. Coming into number four, we got. Whoa. Whoa.

We got Splunky, too cool. That changes everything. The fighting game champion lost the fight. Somebody looked at him and said, no, Mitchell. Somebody. They looked at them. They looked at them and they were like, no, Hades too needs to be number one. Oh, shit.

Hold on. I got a message. I got a message. I'm sorry, Mitchell. I'm so sorry. Maybe I have him wrong. How hard did you actually fight for Spalunky 2? Maybe I had Mitchell wrong.

Because like, hold on, go, let's keep going through the list. Because I'm going to, we're going to go through the list. I'm then going to circle back to his review of Spunkie 2. Okay. Unless, unless, what if Splunky won? I'm just saying, man. Makes it appear. That audience fucked with Spolunky won for so long.

Oh, man. This episode needed a little spice. I love that. We're in the spice territory. Oh man. Somebody called the least on all guy. Spolunky one, number one. Hades 2, number two.

Binding of Isaac number three. I don't know. Man, I think what? We haven't seen repeats of franchises. I don't know if you could do that. I don't think they got to do. I don't think you can do that. Oh my gosh.

All right. Number three, you got. Hades. Hades. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

And he's one. Everything just changed. Everything's changed. Everything's changed. Are you about to eat your words on no repeats? I don't know what's going on in the top two. This is crazy. Could it be that risk of rain two?

And what was the other one we're working with? Binding of Isaac? Yeah. Because you have to have those on this list. All right. My new prediction. Binding of Isaac, number one. Risk of rain two, number two.

I still feel like Spalunky is, Spolunky one is on here. Let's go. Let's just go. I need to know. Coming in at number two, we got the binding of Isaac rebirth. Okay, y'all, we are in a crazy spot right now. Do I got to play risk of rain too? I might have to play risk of rain. Number one is going to be either risk of rain two. Splunky one or Hades two.

What a crazy place we're in. They're saying something. What are they going to say? Coming in at number one, we got Hades two. Wow. Wow. Damn. They did it. Hades dominance. They fucking did it. Haiti's fucking dominance. Damn.

Okay, so what? I gotta fuck with it selfishly. You didn't put, you didn't not put risk of rain too on this list. They didn't. You didn't put risk of rain too on this list? That's ballsy. That's ballsy. That's ballsy.

Wow. IG and even gave it a nine out of ten. I went to double check the review of it. Risk of Rain 2? Yeah. Let me read any, okay, what I didn't, because the only thing

I'm focused on right now, Splunky 2 IGN review. What do they give this? They gave it a 10 out of 10. Mitchell Salsman gave it a 10 out of 10. Let me read the verdict. He got, he got definitely,

vetoed on that one. He says, I wasn't sure I wanted, I wasn't sure what I wanted out of a sequel to Splunky, given how high of a pedestal I keep the original game on. How do you improve upon a game like that?

But Mossmouth took its time and managed to deliver a masterpiece that improves upon as predecessor in ways I never would have imagined. Splunky 2 takes everything that made the original great and expands upon each of those individual aspects without ever overcomplicating the elegant retro simplicity of its 2D platforming. It doesn't do much to win over people who already weren't fans of the original's unforgiving

difficulty, but as someone who is more than 200 runs in and feels like he's only scratched the surface, Spunky 2 is a game that I see myself playing for a long, long time. I mean, that sounded very positive. Didn't necessarily sound like he was selling a soul for the game, but I'm very surprised. I'm gonna say it. Say it. This list is the shit. Wow.

I'm a saying. Tim Gettys loves this list. I love it because I said this earlier. I love how varied the list is in terms of gameplay genre and how different it is. I think this game puts people on to things they might not have known about. Things like Monster Train 2. You look at this and when you, there are those mainstream games that you've heard about that you know that are great and whatever.

But then you're like, if you like those, maybe give these other ones a shot. I think this is just a well-crafted list. there's obviously a lot thought put into it. They made the choice for the double Hades that high. Yeah. It's a crazy choice. That's a crazy choice. But it's like, I think it's a statement that they clearly stand behind. Yeah.

They're saying Haiti's the shit, which I also respect. Yeah, like, Biden of Isaac at number two, I respect it. Like, I think that is just like a respect to an OG of the genre. Like, even though I guess technically the OG be rogue, but you get what I mean. In terms of the indie side.

The modern iteration of it. The modern iteration, how much, I feel like binding of Isaac had a hold on the genre for a very long time until we started getting more games like Dead Cells and Hades and stuff. Yeah, man. I'm still shocked at Spunky 2 and number four. I don't have a personal investment. I will

end up playing Splunky someday. It's my backlog because I'm sure I love it. I also will say this is the shit. I like this list. Joker Man in the chat brings up Seifu and then people are showing it down like, no, it's definitely not a book like and by the definition here it's not. It's not, right? Because it's not procedurally

generated. But that is interesting, though. because it is a rogue light. No. A rogue like light. That's what it is. It's a light rogue light. You know what? I'll take rogue light like.

Yeah. Yeah, I'll take that. Because then like that opens up like rogue, but it's lighter than it. Because I think there's another game we, or there's another list we could do that are top 10 loop games. Yeah.

Which then loop, Death Loop, seafood, Outer Wilds for Forgotten City. Major's mess. Major's mask. That's got to be a top three. Yeah.

I would, I don't think this shit or this list is the shit or shit. I got to choose one. You got to choose one. No. Today, I'm a fence sitter. You choose violence. Before we get out of here, let me bring in some super chats.

Alex Jay Sandoval says, I'm with Janet Garcia. No longer need to distinguish between like and light. Just call them rogue games. I mean, I think rogue like sticks. I'm with roguelike. Yeah. Rogue like already rolls off the tongue. Rogue's not enough.

Yeah. Something's missing. Could we do something like the besties or they made up search action for Metroidvania. Could we make up just like completely different words for Rogue Likes? We need to choose our own genre. No, because I feel like Rogue Likes is too defined

and we can't be changing. Also was Metroidvania. But that's what it is forever. We're not calling these Sergians. I'm saying as a joke like search action. I feel like we need to find our own thing and do it. Our own genre. Hear me out.

Run remixers. Run remixes. Procedural. Remix runs. Remix runners. Procedural runs. Remix runners. Remind.

You know what? Y'all have sold me on this? Yeah. We need to Slack General and make sure everyone at this company knows that we are no longer allowed to say rogue,

rogue light, or rogue-like. I'm on. Remix runners. R.S.C. Raptor Faye says, would moonlighter count? Can't wait for two. Also, my daughter lost her first tooth.

Congrats, Eleanor Bogie. She really wanted you guys to read her name. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Congratulations on the lost tooth. What a big move.

Super big. Hopefully she's going to earn a dollar from the tooth fairy or more. Yeah, $20. Cover her ears when I say this. One time my dad accidentally put like a $100 bill underneath my sister's pillow. Oh, yeah. And like my sister woke up the next one. She's like, the tooth fairy gave me $100.

And my dad's like, what? He's thinking, what? Amazing. Dude, oh, wow. That was like one of those stories we would tell all the time. Portland Kevin said, shout out. one of my all-time faves, Everspace.

Mike M says, just got it here, so I'm sorry if I missed it, but I have to give a shout-out to Noita. No-I-T-A. Noita? It's in a league of its own.

I've played like 1,600 hours. Cool. I got to look that up. M-F. Nick writes in and says, missed 2000 live, so I'm donating you here. Also, dead cells need to be number one. And then J-M-R-Gimbo says,

any chance of Peacemaker Season 2 in review. Thanks. No in review and just timing's not working out right now just with who's out and who's actually watching the show. I would have wanted to do a screencast for it, but I did watch it last night. Did you? No, I'm like, I think I'm on the previous episode.

So. Yeah, my spoiler-free thoughts on it or I thought the season was absolutely incredible. I love James Gunn's vision for... Is it over? Yeah, this is the season finale. Series finale, apparently. There was confusion earlier today.

me and Nick were talking about it because that was episode six or was that episode eight? Oh, okay. It's the finale for sure. Because of that, I thought it was an amazing episode, amazing character development, like a very character-focused episode. I thought it was not a good season finale. I was shocked the way it ended.

Shocked. It's like, okay. You got to look up a trailer for Noita. This shit looks kind of sick. Not even kind of. This shit looks sick. It's a pixel art. Oh, my God. it's like a pixel game with like every pixel like pixels go crazy

I don't know how to describe it hold on hold on hold on I don't know how to describe it it's a pixel game but like pixels you know how like in a voxel game like you can break shit and things are destructible and the voxels go all over the place

it's that but pixels but then also it it feels very like like physics systemy is it just gameplay yeah it's a lot of pixels yeah

it's like very physics system. So, like, there's fire, there's water, and, like, this shit will interact in the ways that you imagine. It looks really cool. Huh. And then I think I had one more. Oh, no, maybe that was the last super chat. I'm not going to lie. I went, I searched Noita and then lost the super chats, guys. I got really curious about this Noita game. Oh, no, that was the last one about Peacemaker. All right. There we go. Tim, thank you so much for joining me on this episode. Thank you. What a fun one. Very fun one. Of course, each and every weekday, we get together and talk about the biggest review

previews and topics in video games live on YouTube, Twitch and on podcast services around the globe. If you love what we do, support us with a kind of funny membership on Patreon on YouTube to get all our shows ad-free, watch them live, and get a daily exclusive show. There is a game showdown after this, and it's a kind of feudy that you don't want to miss. And so until next time, it's been our pleasure to serve you.